Some assorted things for Russ...
Posted by Prime Eternal on October 18, 2000 at 14:57:15:

First off, in the post below entitled, "Lost Generation Gaps", I 
provided the information needed for Lost Generation#11-10 and #4. 
You seem to have over-looked it.

Next, I was just doing some research on the MCP for a friend of 
mine who wanted a list of Baron Strucker & Red Skull appearances 
missing from the MCP. Along the way, I found a few things of note...

RED SKULL

Missing: Captain America#219-FB
Set in 1944, the Skull makes a very brief appearance on a monitor 
screen, giving orders to Nazi agent Lyle Dekker.

Correct: Captain America#346, 347 & 348
Although his face is kept in shadows in these issues, the Red Skull 
makes an actual appearance in each of these stories- they are NOT 
Behind-The-Scenes.

Correct: Captain America#383 (story 4)
This story is actually set after the second story in Captain America 
#350, not long after the Red Skull had received his newly-cloned 
body.

BARON STRUCKER

Correct: Captain America#130-131
I've said this before, but the Strucker who appears in these stories 
is but a robot created by Machinesmith, as revealed in Captain 
America #247.

Missing: Sgt. Fury#14 & 28, Captain Savage#2-4
These are all set in-between Sgt. Fury#5 and #114.

Correct: Marvel Universe#1-3
This story is set during World War Two, and should precede Uncanny 
X-Men#161. It couldn't have occured very long after the flashback 
in #2.

Correct: Uncanny X-Men#161 (flashback)
Thanks to Marvel's rolling timeline, this may actually occur AFTER 
Strucker's behind-the-scenes flashback in Namor#8 (which is set in 
1961). It's quite likely that Xavier & Magneto's first encounter 
has been rolled ever forward.

Missing: Namor#10 (flashback)
Set at the end of World War Two- and following the events of Marvel 
Universe#1-3- Strucker appears to help place Master Man & Warrior 
Woman into suspended animation.

Moving on to a few other things...

TONGAH
Ka-Zar Vol.2 #4 is missing from his chronology.

Tomb of Dracula#28
Rachel Van Helsing, Blade, Frank Drake, Quincy Harker and Lilith 
do NOT appear in this comic. Only mental images of them created 
by Dr. Sun appear.

That's all for now...
Michael Hoskin

			*	*	*

Re: Some assorted things for Russ...
Posted by Russ Chappell on October 18, 2000 at 20:30:57:
In Reply to: Some assorted things for Russ... 
posted by Prime Eternal on October 18, 2000 at 14:57:15:

> Next, I was just doing some research on the MCP for a friend of 
mine who wanted a list of Baron Strucker & Red Skull appearances 
missing from the MCP. Along the way, I found a few things of note...

> BARON STRUCKER
> Correct: Captain America#130-131
> I've said this before, but the Strucker who appears in these 
stories is but a robot created by Machinesmith, as revealed in 
Captain America#247.

Well, in fairness to me, I do say in the welcome message to the 
Posting Board that, as a rule of thumb, we'll wait approximately 
one month before making any suggested changes, to give everyone 
an opportunity to respond and hash it out. Your citation of CA 247 
was I believe posted on September 24, so I'm not quite tardy yet.

> Missing: Sgt. Fury#14 & 28, Captain Savage#2-4
> These are all set in-between Sgt. Fury#5 and #114.

Before adding appearances to a character's chronology for a 
particular book, I'd like to have the book analyzed _as a book_. 
In other words, I'd like to add all the characters who appear 
in a book, rather than just one. I don't have Sgt. Fury #14 nor 
28, nor Captain Savage 2-4. Perhaps I should tweak the answer 
in the FAQ that says I have almost every MU story in a certain 
period, because the war comics never held an interest for me 
as a child, and they're almost impossible to find, now. As a 
consequence, I have fewer than a dozen issues of Sgt. Fury and 
His Howlin' Commandos, and the like.

If you or anyone can provide analyses of these books in question, 
I'd be glad to add all of the appearances to the MCP, but I want 
to stay away from adding individual appearances, because it falsely 
gives the impression that the book has been analyzed. Am I making 
sense? Sometimes I lose myself.

The exception to this that's currently in the MCP is Silver Sable's 
appearances in Silver Sable and the Wild Pack. Don't ask me why.

			*	*	*

Untold Tales of Spider-Man: Special Edition
Posted by John Simons on October 20, 2000 at 02:09:03:

Russ,

As I mentioned last week, while looking into the UTSM series I 
began to get the feeling that UTSM: SE is placed a bit too far 
ahead currently on the MCP (it is currently listed as occuring 
btwn. ASM 23 and 24). Every other issue of UTSM is easy to place 
because Marvel kindly put continuity charts in the back pages of 
UTSM 14 and 25, however the SE was published later and so isn't 
included. Turning to clues within the issue, I feel that UT: SE 
probably occurs between UTSM 17 (which of course I haven't analyzed 
yet, but will be posting shortly) and ASM 16.	

Here's why I think this:	
My first clue was the fact that Dr. Strange is still wearing his 
original blue cloak, he doesn't yet possess his more familiar red 
Cloak of Levitation. This was given to him by the Ancient One at 
the end of ST 127, which was published in Dec. 1964. That same 
month saw ASM 19, which also roughly corresponds with UTSM 23. 
So my gut feeling was that UTSM: SE occured sometime prior to 
ASM 19.

My next clue was the presence in UTSM: SE of a relatively 
unemotional Jason Ionello. Watching UTSM closely, we see that 
Jason is an angry emotional wreck from UTSM 14-16, following the 
death of Sally Avril, and by UTSM 20 his anger has turned to 
depression and he is considering suicide. Between UTSM 16 and 20 
he is halfway his old self, and since he appears rather carefree 
in UTSM: SE I began to think it might fall somewhere in there. 

Another clue is that Betty is still jealous of Liz Allan in 
UTSM: SE, and there is still the love triangle thing going. By 
the time of ASM 23 and 24 (where UTSM SE is currently placed) 
Betty is already dating Ned Leeds and no longer quite so hung up 
on Peter. 

So where would I suggest UTSM SE be moved? Since a surprise party 
for Jason and Tiny is thrown at the end of UTSM 16, it would explain 
why he is in such a good mood in the SE, despite his problems. 
However, Spidey mentions Hawkeye as one of his enemies in the SE, 
and since he doesn't fight Hawkeye until UTSM 17, my belief is that 
UTSM SE takes place between UTSM 17 and ASM 16. 

Now most of the Spidey characters can be reshuffled easily enough, 
but where to place the SE in the chronology of the guest stars? 
Well, ASM 16 was published in Sept 1964, as was ST 124. Since ST 
123/2 is a self-contained story, I don't know of any reason offhand 
why Doc can't appear in UTSM: SE btwn ST 123/2 and ST 124/2. 

Wong appears between ST 119/2 and UTSM '97.

Baron Mordo appears between ST 121/ 2 and ST 125/2 

Ancient One between St 117/2 and ST 124/2

Dormammu between ST 115/2-BTS and ST 126/2

By the way, how come some "Doctor" characters are under DO, while 
most are under DR, alphabetically? Shouldn't they all be considered 
DO, even if the abbreviation is used? Me am confused.

In addition, there are a few characters I've noticed aren't 
currently listed in the MCP, but I would like to suggest they 
be added. For your consideration:

DR. BROMWELL: This is Aunt May's personal physician, possibly the 
only man in America who still makes house calls. Anyway, if you 
know how often May is feeling faint or having a heart attack in 
those early Spidey's, you can guess how important this guy beomes.

ASM: PL (this is the PARALLEL LIVES gn which I will be analyzing 
shortly)
ASM 12
ASM 18
ASM 18~UTSM 22
ASM 18
ASM 18~UTSM 22
ASM 31
ASM 40
ASM 49
M/SH 14
ASM 54
ASM 57
ASM 67
ASM 83
ASM 113
GSS-M 1

George Olshevsky also mentions the doctor in ASM 9 as being Bromwell, 
but he looks completely different and, other than the fact that both 
characters are doctors who treat May, I can't see how he can possibly 
think the guy in ASM 9 is Bromwell. There may be additional Bromwell 
appearences beyond these, this is what I could come up with between 
my collection and the ASM Index. 

I hope I've used the ~ properly above. ASM 18 and UTSM have a lot of 
the same scenes, often the dialogue is exact (hence the ~, right?) 
but ASM 18 contains a few more Bromwell lines which UTSM 22 cuts out. 
They are very minor, but my understanding is the MCP is meant to be 
very strict about this sort of thing, so there ya go.

MR. WARREN: this is Peter's high school science teacher. He is very 
minor, to be sure, but I think he deserves inclusion because A) he 
appeared in the very first story in AAF 15 (he's the instructor in 
the science exhibit which leads to the spider bite) and B) he is 
eventually revealed to be the brother of MIles Warren, AKA The 
Jackal, and he introduces Peter to Warren in UTSM 25.
AAF 15
ASM 2
ASM 2/2
UTSM 1
ASM 8
ASM 15
UTSM @ '97
UTSM 25

I don't have the origin retelling in PPTSS 60, so I can't say if 
he has more lines there.

CRIME-MASTER/NICK "LUCKY" LEWIS: An early Spidey menace, killed 
off early but I think he might just deserve inclusion based on his 
Lee/Ditko pedigree.
UTSM 15-BTS
UTSM 20- FB
UTSM 23
UTSM 25
ASM 26
ASM 27	

One last thing: how do you decide what name to put a character 
under? I only ask because you have Frederick Foswell listed under 
"B" for Big Man, even though he only appeared as that criminal in 
his very first appearence. In the subsequent 30 or so comics he 
appeared in after that, he was never Big Man again. By that 
reasoning, shouldn't Betty Banner be listed under "H" for Harpy? 
Just wondering.

John

			*	*	*

Re: Untold Tales of Spider-Man: Special Edition
Posted by Russ Chappell on November 05, 2000 at 23:16:17:
In Reply to: Untold Tales of Spider-Man: Special Edition 
posted by John Simons on October 20, 2000 at 02:09:03:

>One last thing: how do you decide what name to put a character 
under? 

It's purely personal. I tend to list them the way *I* think of the 
character. To me, Frederick Foswell is the Big Man, and Betty Banner 
is Betty Banner. But you make a case. If Foswell only appears as the 
Big Man in one story, the listing should probably be moved.

			*	*	*

More things...
Posted by Prime Eternal on October 20, 2000 at 14:44:01:

I just found a few Captain America and Moon Knight 
additions/corrections I thought I'd contribute...along with some 
other oddities...

GRIFFITH, D.W.

Additions: Power Man#41.

PUENTES, DONNA MARIA

Additions: Captain America#207 (1st app), 208, 209, 210, 211, 212

WILSON, JIM

Additions: Captain America#270 (though his face is not revealed, he 
is the person shot atop a fire escape in Harlem during this issues 
interlude), 272

REDWING

Additions: Captain America#272

MOTHER NIGHT

Additions: In the flashback found in the second story of Captain 
America#350, Mother Night appears as the tutor of the Red Skull's 
daughter, Synthia Schmidt. This probably takes place following her 
first appearance in Captain America#123.

DIAMONDBACK

Additions: Captain America#319 features a flashback origin for 
Diamondback. Part of it depicts how her brother was killed in a 
hold-up (following flashback story in #440) and it also reveals 
how she first donned her costume and received her throwing diamonds 
from the Trapster (following flashback in Cap#403).

I'm not certain where this flashback occurs in the Trapster's 
chronology, but Diamondback hadn't been a villainess for long before 
her first appearance in Cap#310.

SUEE, FAH LO

Additions: Master of Kung Fu#28 depicts a flashback of Fah Lo Suee 
meeting Shang-Chi as a child.

Additions: Master of Kung Fu#105, 113, 115, 116 & 122 are all missing 
from her chronology.

MOTHER SUPERIOR

Additions: Captain America#298 contains a flashback showing how she 
was born to the Red Skull, raised by him, and later transformed into 
Mother Superior.

The aforementioned flashback from #350's second story occurs mid-way 
through her origin. Hence:

CA 298-FB
CA 350/2-FB
CA 298-FB
CA 290

Is how it should appear.

The second part of the flashback in #298 also depicts how the Red 
Skull brought four companions to Skull House for his daughter, and 
performed the experiments that made them into her Sisters of Sin. 
This should be added to the chronologies of Sister Dream, Sister 
Agony, Sister Pleasure and Sister Death.

NEDDA

Additions: Moon Knight#3 (1st app), 9, 10, 13

SAMUELS

Additions: Marvel Preview#21 (1st app), Moon Knight#1, 3, 4, 6, 9, 
10, 11, 17, 29

LANDERS, RICKY and LANDERS, RYAN

Additions (for both): Moon Knight#2 (1st app), 4, 6, 10, 31, 
34 (second story)

CRAWLEY, JAKE

Correction: His first name is Betrand, not Jake. You're probably 
confused with Jake Lockley, Moon Knight's cab-driving alias.

Additions: Moon Knight#2 has a flashback depicting how Crawley 
lost his family and became a homeless man. It is his earliest 
chronological appearance.

Additions: Moon Knight#4 & 10 are mising from Crawley's chronology.

Michael Hoskin

			*	*	*

A few notes
Posted by Yellow Claw on October 24, 2000 at 07:27:53:

Hi all. I've only just noticed this board, and I have a couple of 
things to point out. 

Incidentally, I've contributed to the MCP before by e-mailing Russ 
chronology additions for MODOK and the Yellow Claw, one under my 
bosses name (David Bell) due to a technical error, and one under 
my real name, Paul Clarke.

Anyway, Half-Face also appeared in IM@ 4/2, which is set after his 
TOS appearances. This story also features Midnight and Fu Manchu 
(BTS), but I don't know where this fits into their chronologies.
Secondly, the Unicorn who appears in DPOOL3 39 is likely not Milos 
Masaryk. A second Unicorn debuted in Soviet Super-Soldiers, and his 
entry would read:

UNICORN II
SSS 1

However, this again is probably not the Unicorn who appears in 
DPOOL3 39, since he bears little resemblance to him in terms of 
charcter. The Unicorn who appears in that is thus most likely 
Unicorn III, who debuts in Iron Man vol. 1 issues .

His chronology would thus read:

UNICORN III
IM 330, 331
DPOOL3 39

I hope this is of some use.

Regards,
Yellow Claw.

			*	*	*

Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
Posted by Hawkman on October 24, 2000 at 19:59:24:

There's a few UJIII appearances missing from his entry.  His first 
app as Joey Chapman is in CA 253; CA 254 is his first app as UJ3 
but its not highlighted red in his entry.  He also appeared in the 
third story in Marvel Comics Presents.  This chronologically 
occurred between COC 3 and N 12.  There was also a three issue 
Union Jack mini-series which featured the third incarnation.  
This chronologically took place before X:HC 3.  I'll be on the 
lookout for more obscure UJ3 appearances.  (Even though I'm probably 
the only one who likes him.)  

			*	*	*

Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
Posted by John Simons on October 25, 2000 at 01:36:52:
In Reply to: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
posted by Hawkman on October 24, 2000 at 19:59:24:

Isn't this the Union Jack who was a member of the Knights of 
Pendragon? Lots of appearences there.

			*	*	*

Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
Posted by Hawkman</a> on October 25, 2000 at 08:03:06:
In Reply to: Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
posted by John Simons on October 25, 2000 at 01:36:52:

I don't think so.  But to be honest, I've never read Knights of 
Pendragon so I'm not sure.  I do know he has always been one of 
Marvel's most underplayed heroes.  

: Isn't this the Union Jack who was a member of the Knights of 
Pendragon? Lots of appearences there.

			*	*	*

Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
Posted by Alan Stewart on October 25, 2000 at 21:03:22:
In Reply to: Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
posted by Hawkman on October 25, 2000 at 08:03:06:

: I don't think so.  But to be honest, I've never read Knights 
of Pendragon so I'm not sure.  

: : Isn't this the Union Jack who was a member of the Knights of 
Pendragon? Lots of appearences there.

It's the same guy, although he looks and acts a bit different in 
the two KOP series.  You'd almost think they weren't in continuity 
anymore, but UJ makes a reference to the Pendragon power in one of 
the three issues of the recent miniseries.  (Which I appreciate, 
since the first KOP series is a favorite of mine.)

Neither "Knights of Pendragon" series is on the MCP yet, although 
Jeph Yorke (who's posted elsewhere on this board about Captain 
Britain) has indicated he plans to tackle them eventually.

I would definitely recommend checking out the first series if you're 
a Union Jack fan -- the second, only if you plan to be a completist.

Alan

			*	*	*

Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
Posted by Paul Eke on October 29, 2000 at 10:28:33:
In Reply to: Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
posted by Alan Stewart on October 25, 2000 at 21:03:22:

Union Jack appears in Knights of Pendragon vol 1 #7-18, the 
appearance in Namor #12 most probably occurs between #12 and #13 
since there is an obvious break between two storylines there.  I 
think UJ appaear in all 11 issues of Pendragon vol 2 following #18 
of vol 1 (the final issue)and in his own mini series following that.

The story in Marvel Comics Presents is his last appearance before 
Knights of Pendragon.

			*	*	*

Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
Posted by Scott James on November 15, 2000 at 06:40:27:
In Reply to: Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
posted by Paul Eke on October 29, 2000 at 10:28:33:

: Union Jack appears in Knights of Pendragon vol 1 #7-18, the 
appearance in Namor #12 most probably occurs between #12 and #13 
since there is an obvious break between two storylines there.  I 
think UJ appaear in all 11 issues of Pendragon vol 2 following #18 
of vol 1 (the final issue)and in his own mini series following 
that.

: The story in Marvel Comics Presents is his last appearance before 
Knights of Pendragon.

Does anyone know when (in what comic) 'Joey' made the change to 
the 'new' uniform? Also, has there ever been a 'Union Jack/ Capt. 
Britain' teamup?

			*	*	*

Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
Posted by Paul Eke on November 15, 2000 at 11:40:52:
In Reply to: Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
posted by Scott James on November 15, 2000 at 06:40:27:

: Does anyone know when (in what comic) 'Joey' made the change to 
the 'new' uniform? 

Which new uniform?  Knights of Pendragon vol 1 gave him a new 
uniform (the one also seen in Namor #12) and Pendragon vol 2 gave 
him another new uniform.

: Also, has there ever been a 'Union Jack/ Capt. Britain' teamup?

Knights of Pendragon vol 1 #6-12

			*	*	*

Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
Posted by Paul Eke on November 15, 2000 at 11:55:40:
In Reply to: Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
posted by Paul Eke on November 15, 2000 at 11:40:52:

: Which new uniform?  Knights of Pendragon vol 1 gave him a new 
uniform (the one also seen in Namor #12) 

I've just checked,  It's Knights of Pendragon #8 that introduces 
the new uniform.

neither Captain Britain or Union Jack appear in KofP #9.

There are numerous gaps where the appearance of UJ in Namor 12 
could occur but the most appropriate still seems to be  between 
#12 and #13 since that is a proper break in the KofP storyline

			*	*	*

Re: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
Posted by Russ Chappell on November 05, 2000 at 23:22:16:
In Reply to: Union Jack III (Joey Chapman)
posted by Hawkman on October 24, 2000 at 19:59:24:

> There's a few UJIII appearances missing from his entry.  His 
first app as Joey Chapman is in CA 253; CA 254 is his first app as 
UJ3 but its not highlighted red in his entry.  

A clarification here. The red text is used to highlight a 
character's first *published* appearance, not necessarily their 
first published appearance as a hero. That being the case, CA 254 
would not be highlighted red.

			*	*	*

Man-Wolf Chronology
Posted by Richard Killen on October 25, 2000 at 22:22:26:

Recent events in Thunderbolts had me looking through some back 
issues, regarding the history of Man-Wolf.  John Jameson's 
chronology, in the late 70's, shows:

COTL 37
M/PM 45
M/PM 46
M/TU 36
M/TU 37
ASM 190-FB

It appears to me that the order should be:

COTL 37
M/TU 36
M/TU 37
M/PM 45
M/PM 46
ASM 190-FB

I don't have COTL 37, but in M/TU 37, a footnote claims that the 
Monster Maker (I love that guy) captured Man-Wolf while he was 
"hurtling toward the moon in <COTL> #37", prior to M/TU 36.  At 
the end of M/TU 37, he is taken away by SHIELD.

M/PM 45 is a bit confusing, as it begins in the middle of a story 
with John captured by warriors from the Other Realm, after a failed 
space mission.  Writer David Keith provides a brief synopsis of 
Man-Wolf's history on the letters page, but is unclear about where 
the events prior to the story took place (if at all).

In the ASM 190 flashback, apparently following the M/PM arc, John's 
moon stone is killing him, and he is put in cryogenic suspension.

Is there something in COTL #37 that places the M/PM arc prior to 
the M/TU arc?  The Unofficial Spider-Man Page also saw things that 
way, but is pretty vague about where the M/TU arc belongs.

Richard

			*	*	*

Re: Man-Wolf Chronology
Posted by Terry Wessner on November 20, 2000 at 10:37:26:
In Reply to: Man-Wolf Chronology
posted by Richard Killen on October 25, 2000 at 22:22:26:

: COTL 37
: M/PM 45
: M/PM 46
: M/TU 36
: M/TU 37
: ASM 190-FB

This chronology is correct.  The Marvel Premiere stories take 
place immediatedly after the COTL ones, and the MTU stories take 
place after the MP ones.  This was confirmed in an MP letter 
column.

However, the Man-Beast/Hatemonger entries are incorrect when 
they state that the Hatemonger who appeared in COTL 34-35 was 
the Man-Beast.  The Hatemonger's dialogue makes it clear that 
he is the Hitler-based one who fought Nick Fury and the Fantastic 
four.  The Marvel Handbook is incorrect when it say the Man-Beast 
appeared in COTL.

Terry Wessner

			*	*	*

Help! Fantastic Four Question!
Posted by Jelio</a> on October 26, 2000 at 23:03:34:

If your following the Fatastic Four you should be familiar with 
the fact that Crucible stole Reed Richards "Creativity" back in 
issue #5(vol.3) and Reed remained lacking it till issue #12. My 
problem/question is in issue #12 Reed didn't get it back! the 
comic just skiped the whole thing! Well if any one can tell me 
where (page panel or whatever) in issue #12 Reed got it back, 
tell me. (P.S. I dont have the answer! please help!)

Thank you very much 

			*	*	*

Re: Help! Fantastic Four Question!
Posted by SKleefeld</a> on October 27, 2000 at 12:32:41:
In Reply to: Help! Fantastic Four Question!
posted by Jelio on October 26, 2000 at 23:03:34: 

It has not been expressly shown at this point. It's presumed that 
it 'snapped' back into Reed's head with Crucible's defeat at the 
end of #12, but that's more inferred than implied.

Sean

			*	*	*

3-D Man Nitpick
Posted by Lord Zorn on October 27, 2000 at 03:54:08:

Russ:

The following is not strictly chronology-related, but I thought 
this would be a more convenient venue to contribue corrigenda 
involved in the MCP. 

I think, from reading the OHOTMU and your other "alias" listings, 
that the 3-D Man's alias should be listed as "Charles "Chuck" 
Chandler and Harold "Hal" Chandler", instead of the present "Chuck 
and Hal Chandler"

Please tell me if this kind of post is helpful or inappropriate. 

Thanks.

Lord Zorn, anxious to lend a helping hand, and willing, when he 
can, to supply sources for all his quibbles and cavils

			*	*	*

Re: 3-D Man Nitpick
Posted by Russ Chappell on November 05, 2000 at 23:29:16:
In Reply to: 3-D Man Nitpick
posted by Lord Zorn on October 27, 2000 at 03:54:08:

I'm making the adjustment from Chuck and Hal to Charles and Harold, 
and fair warning to everyone that I think we're going to start 
moving away from listing the nicknames of characters which are 
*obviously* derived from their true first names. For instance, 
there's no need to put "Petey" after Peter Parker. I'll be going 
through the MCP, probably next week, to remove these.

			*	*	*

Another batch...
Posted by Prime Eternal on October 27, 2000 at 13:01:11:

#1: Thunderstrike#22 is listed under Mad-Dog's chronology. This 
is actually an appearance by Mad-Dog Rassitano, the member of 
Code: Blue.

#2: Dino Manelli of the Howling Commandos had his name mis-spelt 
as Dino Minelli.

#3: X-Men & Clan Destine#1 is missing from Adam Destine's 
chronology, as is #2 from Colossus'. I don't know if this is 
an error I made when I submitted those issues or not.

#4: Kukulcan does not appear in Thor Annual#7. It is mentioned 
there that Virako claims to be Kukulcan to the local natives, 
but Kukulcan himself does not appear.

#5: Morganna Blessing's first appearance- Dr. Strange Vol.2 #48- is 
missing from her chronology.

#6: The Black Spectre's chronology is missing:

Moon Knight Vol.1 #25-FB (1st appearance, depicts Spectre's origin 
as Carson Knowles)
Moon Knight Vol.1 #25

These should both precede his appearances in the Moon Knight limited 
series.

#7: The Monitor who appears in Quasar#16 is actually a representative 
of a race known as the Monitors. They first appeared in Marvel 
Two-In-One Annual#3. Since this alien has no name- and the MCP 
doesn't include appearances by alien races as a whole- his entry 
should probably be deleted.

#8: Bloodlust's appearances in Captain America were mis-typed as 
CA 189, etc. instead of CA 389, etc.

#9: Ningal's entry was mis-spelt as Nigal. His first appearance was 
in Chamber of Chills#4. Other appearances include Dr. Strange Vol.2 
#37.

#10: Bison's chronology should include the flashback to his origin 
in Thunderstrike#13.

#11: Aginar does not appear in Eternals: The Herod Factor.

#12: The Voice's chronology should include Tales to Astonish#42, 
West Coast Avengers#36, and West Coast Avengers#37.

#13: The Mr. Luck who first appeared in Luke Cage, Hero For Hire#10 
is a different entity from the one who 1st appeared in Captain 
America#224.

Their chronologies should appear as follows:

MR LUCK I/Ramon Garcia
LCHFH 5-BTS
LCHFH 6-BTS
LCHFH 10 (1st app)
LCHFH 11

MR LUCK II/Philip Garcia
CA 224
PM&IF 63
PM&IF 64

That's it for now!

Michael Hoskin

			*	*	*

Luke Cage in AVENGERS#118? Really?
Posted by marv-l on October 28, 2000 at 19:16:08:

That's one of the appearances that you have him down as making. Is 
that a definite fact or an assumption. The assumption being that 
since that isse was during the Avengers/Defenders clash, Cage would 
appear. However, Cage first "joined", if you will, the Defenders 
circa issue #17&18,the Avengers/Defenders war ended before those 
issues. I've been trying to collect Cage's appearances outside of 
his own book, and want to be certain he DID appear in AVENGERS#118. 
Thanks.

			*	*	*

Re: Luke Cage in AVENGERS#118? Really?
Posted by Michel Racaud on October 29, 2000 at 04:42:29:
In Reply to: Luke Cage in AVENGERS#118? Really?
posted by marv-l on October 28, 2000 at 19:16:08:

: That's one of the appearances that you have him down as making. 
Is that a definite fact or an assumption. The assumption being that 
since that isse was during the Avengers/Defenders clash, Cage would 
appear. However, Cage first "joined", if you will, the Defenders 
circa issue #17&18,the Avengers/Defenders war ended before those 
issues. I've been trying to collect Cage's appearances outside of 
his own book, and want to be certain he DID appear in AVENGERS#118. 
Thanks.

Luke Cage makes a one-panel cameo appearance in Avengers #118, among 
a lot of other heroes (FF, Spider-Man, Inhumans, Ka-Zar, Ghost Rider, 
Man-Thing, Doom, Dracula, Warlock and Thanos) who must fight the 
humans transformed into monsters by Loki and Dormammu.

Michel

			*	*	*

Apocalypse appearance
Posted by Dumler on October 30, 2000 at 00:22:36:

Can someone tell me where Apocalypse appears in CX 25/2? That story 
is about Wolverine and a deer hunter.

			*	*	*

Re: Apocalypse appearance
Posted by Paul O'Brien on October 30, 2000 at 11:27:53:
In Reply to: Apocalypse appearance
posted by Dumler on October 30, 2000 at 00:22:36:

I don't have the issue to hand (I'm at work right now), but I 
suspect that will be a misprint for CX25 FB.  There's certainly 
one issue of CX where the extra pages include a new flashback 
showing Apocalypse rescuing Moses Magnum, and I'm not aware of 
any other Apocalypse appearances in the series.

Quite what this flashback was meant to achieve has always bemused me.  Presumably it's another of those stories Claremont started off and then never followed up on.
Presumably it's another of those stories Claremont started off 
and then never followed up on.

			*	*	*

Re: Apocalypse appearance
Posted by Michel Racaud</a> on October 30, 2000 at 13:07:30:
In Reply to: Re: Apocalypse appearance
posted by Paul O'Brien on October 30, 2000 at 11:27:53:

You're absolutely right, Paul. I'm impressed you've found it 
without the book :-))

Apocalyspe appears effectively in a flash-back from Classic X-Men 
#25/1, when Moses Magnum remembers how he was rescued and captured 
by Apocalypse just after the earthquake at the end of Power-Man 
Annual #1.

			*	*	*

Amazing Spider-Man Parallel Lives graphic novel
Posted by John Simons on October 30, 2000 at 02:50:06:

Russ and the esteemed Board:

Here is my analysis of the AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: PARALLEL LIVES 
graphic novel. Since this was published after they stopped numbering 
the MGN series, I am using the abbreviation ASM: PL below. This 
graphic novel is not FBs, but rather tells a linear story of Peter's 
and MJ's lives up until their wedding, skipping ahead in time every 
few pages. Since the story keeps jumping forward in time, it is 
necessary to partition each individual time period into it's own 
section. What I came up with is 21 different sections in which this 
graphic novel unfolds. Here it is:

Section 1 (Page 1)
Characters who appear in this section: Richard, Mary, Ben, May and 
Peter Parker. 

Conway is generally very good at coordinating the new scenes in this 
gn with existing Spidey stories, but this first section just happens 
to be one of the only trouble areas. In this scene we are shown 
Peter's parents as they prepare to leave on their spy mission, and 
May and Ben taking charge of Peter. However, these events unfold 
differently from the version shown in the flashback of ASM @ 5. In 
the annual, Richard and Mary are telling Ben and May about their 
trip while sitting in the living room, in this GN they are standing 
on the front porch. In the annual May and Peter are seen sending 
them off at the airport, in this GN Ben, May, and Peter watch from 
the porch as Richard and Mary depart. Either one version must be 
disregarded, or else a bit of convoluted explanation is in order, 
to whit:

ASM @ 5- FB (Richard asks Ben and May to look after Peter, they 
agree)

ASM: PL (On the day they are scheduled to leave, Richard and Mary 
bring Peter to Ben and May and say their goodbyes on the front porch 
of the Parker home)

Reading-between-the-lines: For some reason, Ben and May decide to 
take Peter to the airport, perhaps Richard and Mary have forgotten 
some luggage???

ASM @ 5- FB (Mary and Richard board a plane to Europe as Peter and 
May look on) 

By the way, in Spidey's chronology it lists his ASM @ 5- FB 
appearence as BTS, but he is plainly visible, not BTS at all!

______________________________________

Section 2 (p. 2)

This is a scene of a drunken Philip Watson berating his wife, as 
daughters Gayle and Mary Jane look on. Although quite similar to 
the scene depicted in in the last two panels of ASM 259, page 3, 
the dialogue is a bit different and MJ is older in ASM 259, 
suggesting that these are seperate incidents, and that Philip 
apparently harped on the old "You're keeping me from being a great 
writer" schtick throughout MJ's childhood. 

Therefore Philip Watson, Gayle Watson, Mary Jane Watson-Parker, and 
Gayle (Watson) Byrnes appear here btwn. panels four and five of 
AMS 259, p. 3.

______________________________________

Section 3 (p. 3-4)

Ben Parker, May Parker and Peter Parker: Peter is described as being 
14, so this must take place very soon before he is bitten by the 
radioactive spider. 

Mary Jane, Gayle, Anna, and Madeline Watson: ASM 259, page 5 explains 
that Peter was 13 when MJ first saw him out a window, so the Watson 
characters appear in this section after panel six of p. 5 of ASM 259.

_______________________________________

Section 4 (p. 5-9)

This is a recap of Spider-Man's origin, with some of the dialogue 
repeated. Not sure if this merits one of those ~ thingies. If so, 
I'm not sure I can help you, because I don't have the PPTSM 60 where 
his origin is elaborated on, so I don't know if I can coordinate all 
three versions. For what it's worth, there is only one little bit in 
this GN that isn't in AAF 15: After being bitten, while wandering 
down the street, just prior to almost being hit by a car, Peter 
stumbles past Flash Thompson and Liz Allan without noticing them. 
They have a little conversation, which Peter doesn't hear. They 
appear here between AAF 15 and AAF 16.

There are more bits of Peter discovering his abilities after 
climbing up the wall after the car incident. There are a few extra 
lines in the scene where Peter is testing his new web-shooters and 
unveiling his costume. Again, dunno if these are new, or from 
PPTSM 60.

_______________________________________

Section 5 (p. 10-12)
Mary Jane, and Madeline Watson, Tim and Gayle Byrnes, Frank Brown 
(MJ's surly uncle)

In this section, everyone is aware that Gayle is pregnant, but the 
baby hasn't been born yet. Therefore, this section takes place 
between panels 1 and 2 of page 10 of ASM 259.

_______________________________________

Section 6 (p.13-14)

Peter lets Burglar get away; gets microscope from Uncle Ben and 
Aunt May. Same dialogue from AAF 15. Requiring a ~?

_______________________________________

Section 7 (p. 14)

Peter Parker and Ben Parker chat about Peter's noticable gain of 
confidence (since getting his powers, although of course Ben doesn't 
know this) Takes place btween pages 8 and 9 of AAF 15.

_______________________________________

Section 8 (p. 15)

Mary Jane Watson and unidentified friends and schoolmates. This is 
an elaboration on Mary Jane's escape into partying to get away from 
her sad feelings about Tim and Gayle's marriage, therefore it most 
likely takes place between panels 7 and 8 of page 13 of ASM 259.

______________________________________

Section 9 (p. 16-20)

The night Ben Parker was murdered. From Peter's P.O.V., the scenes 
are the same, with the same dialogue, possibly meriting the ever-
puzzling ~ sign. The new material shows MJ's P.O.V.: namely, she 
happens to be looking out Aunt Anna's window as Spidey comes out 
of Peter's window, and figures out the connection!

Mary Jane: appears between Section 8 (above) and Section 12 (below) 

Anna Watson: appears btwn. ASM 259- FB and Section 12 (below)

May Parker: frankly, there are so many flashback mentions under 
May chronology already, I couldn't begin to guess where this falls 
in. All I can tell you is it shows May laying down at Anna's house, 
trying to deal with the shock of Ben's death. If definitely happens 
after the Ben death scene in ASM 200- FB... hmm, but now that I 
look on May's chronology, you don't have ASM 200-FB listed as yet. 
For shame! :)

Madeline Watson: between pages 10 and 13 of ASM 259- FB.

Dr. Bromwell: earliest known appearence. Appears next in ASM 12 (or 
ASM 9 according to Olshevsky, if you believe that porky guy is 
Bromwell)

______________________________________

Section 10 (p. 21-22)

The origin of Dr. Octopus, same as ASM 3 with same dialogue, except 
Doc Ock gets one more panel of lines in this gn. So I guess the 
chronology for him should read:

ASM 3~ASM: PL
ASM: PL
ASM 3

______________________________________

Section 11 (p. 23-24)

A bit of Spidey's fight with Kraven, as well as Peter's fight with 
May about a blind date with MJ, identical dialogue, from ASM 15.

______________________________________

Section 12 (p. 25)

This is obviously simultaneous with the ASM 15 action, but this is 
what MJ was up to at the time: arguing with Anna about the blind 
date! They appear between Sections 9 and 14 of this GN. 

_____________________________________

Section 13 (p. 26-27) 

end of spidey's fight with Kraven, with some dialogue, same as ASM 
15.

_____________________________________

Section 14 (p. 27) 

MJ is faking a headache to get out of her blind date.

MJ: Between Section 12 and ASM 259- FB, page 13 panel 8.

Anna: Between Section 12 and UTSM 16.

____________________________________

Section 15 (p. 28-29)

Quick recap of ASM 28 battle with Molten Man and graduation-- no 
dialogue, but a new scene is inserted just after graduation, where 
Peter is about to take May and Anna for ice cream, and May has a 
dizzy spell which she hides. 

Spidey btwn ASM 28 and ASM @ 2

May btwn. ASM 28 and ASM 29

Anna btwn. ASM 28 and ASM 30

____________________________________

Section 16 (p. 29-34)

This is mostly scenes from ASM 31-32, the only new dialogue I can 
detect is during a Spidey/Doc Ock fight scene, which I guess would 
make the chronology for these two:

ASM 32
ASM: PL
ASM 32

____________________________________

Section 17 (p. 25-26) 

The first two panels of page 25 are similar panels 5 and 6 of ASM 
259, but the dialogue is different enough that they may be seperate 
incidents. The rest of the MJ backstory shown here has the exact same 
dialogue as the scenes on pages 13 and 14 of ASM 259-FB.

_____________________________________

Section 18 (37-38)

MJ moves in with Aunt Anna, and thinks about finally hooking up 
with Peter.

MJ: appears between ASM 259- FB (end of page 14) and ASM 42.

Anna: Appears between ASM 41 and ASM 42.

_____________________________________

Section 19 (39-40)

Peter and MJ meet at last, the same scene with same dialogue from 
the end of ASM 42, except for the first panel of p. 39 of this GN, 
in which Peter and May are discussing the upcoming date. May and 
Peter appear in this panel btwn. pages 19 and 20 of ASM 42.

_____________________________________

Section 20 (p. 41-42)

Mostly this is the same scenes from ASM 54, however there are two 
panels of Dr. Octopus dialogue in this version which does not appear 
in ASM 54:

panel 1 of page 42 takes place before page one of ASM 54, therefore 
Dr Ock's and May Parker's chronologies would be:
ASM 53
ASM: PL
ASM 54

The second panel of new dialogue is panel 4 of page 41, which falls 
between pages 5 and 7 of ASM 54. Again this affects Doc Ock and 
Aunt May chronologies:
ASM 54
ASM: PL
ASM 54

______________________________________

Section 21 (43- end)

The most contemporary scenes of the graphic novel, they take place 
immediately after the ending of ASM @ 21 . I no longer own this 
annual, but if I remember correctly the annual ends just as Peter 
and MJ are standing before the preacher, before they give their 
vows? Or maybe not, I don't recall anymore.

Anyway, this section starts with them exchanging the "I do"s. 
Present at the wedding are not only the preacher (who isn't named) 
but Flash Thompson, Harry Osborn, Liz Osborn, Joe Robertson, J Jonah 
Jameson, Betty Brant, May Parker, Anna Watson. Assuming the vows 
bit is a new scene exclusive to the gn, these characters all appear 
here between ASM @ 21 and whatever their various next appearences 
are in their current chronologies.

Finally, Dr. Octopus most likely appears here between PPTSS 124 
and ASM 296.

That about wraps it up. The only other thing I could tell you from 
this graphic novel is how the dialogue in here matches up to 
identical scenes in the original stories. It depends on how 
important it is to include these representations with the ol' ~ sign. 
If it is preferable, it can be done, but since only certain scenes 
of the originals but not whole issues are shown again, it will end 
up with a lot of this type of listing:

ASM 30
ASM 30~ASM: PL
ASM 30
ASM 30~ASM: PL
ASM 30
ASM 30~ASM: PL
ASM 30
ASM 30~ASM: PL

....you get the point.

I will soon be posting new improved chronolgies of Peter and MJ 
which not only incorporate this material but also the UTSM series. 
Stay Tuned!

-John

			*	*	*

Frankenstein's Monster
Posted by Lee K. Seitz on October 31, 2000 at 11:02:10:

Someone inquired about Frankenstein's Monster appearing after his 
series ended on rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe.  I posted info 
from the MCP for him.  I got the following responses, so can someone 
check into it?

Lee K. Seitz said:

> He apparently last appeared in THING #19 and FANTASTIC FOUR #274.

Mick said:

> The one in FF and the Thing was a Frankenstein Monster, but not 
the same one, I think.  That one was from the world the Beyonder 
created that the Thing was living on, and he encountered a bunch 
of monster-movie creatures.

Gary also responded:

> The Frankenstein Monster most recently appeared in SPIDER-MAN
UNLIMITED #21, actually!  And like the others said, Thing #19 and 
FF #274 featured a different Frankenstein Monster.

			*	*	*

Daredevil Vol 2 #12
Posted by Paul O'Brien</a> on October 31, 2000 at 16:43:03:

With reference to the request for information on DD2 12...

DD2 12 is a filler story which was shoved out supposedly in order 
to get the book back on schedule.  As DD2 has published a whopping 
four issues in the last year, it obviously didn't do much good.

Anyhow, you'll recall that DD2 11 ended with Daredevil and Echo 
fighting.  DD2 12 is the end of that fight as viewed by various 
passers-by who we've never seen before or since.  The story is 
basically a heartwarming coincidence in which the bystanders' lives 
are transformed by Daredevil and Echo passing through; nothing to 
write home about.

The fight as seen in DD2 12 picks up slightly before the final part 
of the fight that we see in DD2 11, so  it fits into the chronology 
for both Daredevil and Echo as follows:-

DD2 11
DD2 12
DD2 11~DD2 12
DD2 13

			*	*	*

Deadpool #47
Posted by Paul O'Brien</a> on October 31, 2000 at 16:49:13:

More assistance with the books Russ didn't buy (and come on, this 
one isn't *that* bad).

Nothing much to say with Deadpool #47.  We're still in the "Cruel 
Summer" storyline here, and Deadpool himself is the only character 
who's appeared anywhere else.  The story here is Deadpool being 
hired by a policeman to kill a bunch of crimelords so that he won't 
have to give evidence against them; and Deadpool falling in love 
with his informant, a tattoo artist called Ananastasia, who 
naturally betrays him.

The issue includes the usual assortment of cannon fodder, but 
here's the list of characters who appear in both Deadpool #46-47.  
Aside from Deadpool, they're all nobodies:-

Deadpool
Fred Pierson
Busta Bloodvessel (honestly)
Ananastasia/Anna (the storyline uses both names)

No chronological references to other stories.

			*	*	*

X-Man #70
Posted by Paul O'Brien on October 31, 2000 at 16:55:40:

Another nice straightforward one.

This is the final part of the Counter-X Shockwave storyline, set 
six months back in time (ie, between issues #62-63).  This issue, 
Nate Grey is given his new chest brand by his counterpart from 
Earth 998.  Apparently this keeps his powers under control and 
thereby resolves the long-running subplot that his powers were 
supposedly going to destroy him at age 18.

The plot is that the other Nate gets killed in our Nate's place, 
and our Nate then goes back in to defeat the evil Madelyne Pryor.  
Nothing too out of the ordinary.  Madelyne, Mr Scratch and the 
counterpart Nate Grey all appear to die here.

Madelyne Pryor of Earth 998, Nate Grey of Earth 998 and Mr Scratch 
all appear, following their appearances in issue #69.  No other 
recurring characters appear.

As for Nate's chronology, the issue curiously ends with a one page 
coda set in present day continuity which simply establishes that 
he's doing his shaman routine.  Nate's also appeared during this 
flashback storyline in a one panel cameo in Maximum Security #1.  
That leaves Nate's chronology as:-

X-Man #67
X-Man #68
X-Man #69
X-Man #70
X-Man #63
X-Man #64
X-Man #65
X-Man #66
Maximum Security #1
X-Man #70
 
			*	*	*

Iron Man: Bad Blood #1-4
Posted by Paul O'Brien on October 31, 2000 at 17:22:12:

I see we're looking here for chronology for the entire series.  
No problem.

This series came out when the Joe Quesada run was already 
underway.  However, Iron Man is still wearing his Heroes Return 
armour.  That would logically place the series in the gap between 
IM3 25 and IM3 26, where it fits perfectly happily for all those 
characters appearing.

The plot with this one is that Iron Man has been infected with 
"rogue cells" that drive him to become more and more aggressive.  
But Jim Rhodes works out what's happening and cures him.  Iron Man 
then goes off to beat up Justin Hammer in outer space, who turns 
out to have been behind the whole thing with some vague plan of 
making Iron Man more like him.

Here's the chronologies for the characters appearing, using "IM:BB" 
as the acronym for Bad Blood:-

CODE BLUE
appear in issue #2; I don't recognise the individual members, I'm 
afraid.

FUJIKAWA, RUMIKO
IM3 25
IM:BB 2
IM3 26

HAMMER, JUSTIN
GAM3 16 (a brief appearance that seems to be missing right now)
IM:BB 1
IM:BB 2
IM:BB 3
IM:BB 4 (in which he's left frozen in ice and stranded in space...)

HOGAN, HAPPY
IM3 25
IM:BB 1
IM:BB 3
IM:BB 4
IM3 28

IRON MAN I
IM3 25
(possibly other stories in this gap)
IM:BB 1
IM:BB 2
IM:BB 3
IM:BB 4
IM3 26

JOCASTA
IM3 23
IM:BB 3
IM:BB 4
IM3 27

NUMBER 1 through NUMBER 6
(Spymaster's thugs from IM3 8)
IM3 8
IM:BB 1 (where all but one die, but we're not told which one survived)

PHILLIP
IM:BB 1
IM:BB 2
IM:BB 3
IM:BB 4 (dies)
(NB: it's implied that this guy has been acting as Hammer's aide for 
a while.  He may be a 1980s character that I don't recognise.)

POTTS, PEPPER
IM3 25
IM:BB 1
IM:BB 2
IM3 26

RHODES, JIM
IM3 20
IM:BB 1
IM:BB 2
IM:BB 3
IM:BB 4

SPYMASTER II
IM3 8
IM:BB 1-BTS
IM:BB 2

There are some original flashbacks here as well.

Issue #3 has a flashback I've mentioned before, in which Iron Man 
rescues a group of Stark International employees including Jim 
Rhodes from Blacklash.  It could go anywhere.

Issue #4 has a flashback which purports to tell us that, due to 
illness, Justin Hammer needed to be in zero gravity and therefore 
went to live in an orbiting base.  There, he is shown forming his 
plot against Iron Man, which involves him getting Spymaster's men 
to attack Iron Man (the attack we saw in IM3 8) and inject him with 
the rogue cells (a new element added here).

This causes some problems.

Obviously it means that Iron Man and Numbers 1-6 appear in this 
flashback, with its added details, bang in the middle of the scene 
in IM3 8.  This probably merits a "concurrent appearance" listing, 
so they would all have listings as:-

IM3 8
IM3 8~IM:BB 4-FB
IM3 8

Hammer, equally, must now be listed as behind the scenes in IM3 8.  
But if this flashback is to be believed then it means that Justin 
Hammer has been away from Earth on his orbiting space station since 
before IM3 8.  That makes it rather hard to fit in his appearances 
since then in Thunderbolts and Gambit.  Presumably he just returns 
to Earth during a brief return to health.

That would mean his chronology post IM 283 is as follows:-

IM 283
IM:BB 4-FB
IM3 8-BTS
TB 26
TB 35
TB 36
TB 37
GAM3 16
IM:BB 1
IM:BB 2
IM:BB 3
IM:BB 4

Any use?

			*	*	*

Re: Iron Man: Bad Blood #1-4
Posted by Guffawing Crow on November 01, 2000 at 09:02:52:
In Reply to: Iron Man: Bad Blood #1-4
posted by Paul O'Brien on October 31, 2000 at 17:22:15:

: Issue #3 has a flashback I've mentioned before, in which Iron 
Man rescues a group of Stark International employees including 
Jim Rhodes from Blacklash.  It could go anywhere.

Actually, it goes after IM 147, as I've mentioned in response to 
your earlier query.

			*	*	*

Re: Iron Man: Bad Blood #1-4
Posted by Sean Curtin</a> on January 05, 2001 at 00:06:27:
In Reply to: Iron Man: Bad Blood #1-4
posted by Paul O'Brien on October 31, 2000 at 17:22:15:

: [Justin] Hammer, equally, must now be listed as behind the scenes 
in IM3 8.  But if this flashback is to be believed then it means 
that Justin Hammer has been away from Earth on his orbiting space 
station since before IM3 8.  That makes it rather hard to fit in 
his appearances since then in Thunderbolts and Gambit.  Presumably 
he just returns to Earth during a brief return to health.

: That would mean his chronology post IM 283 is as follows:-

: IM 283

An appearance in Spectacular Spider-Man Annual #14 (second story) 
goes here... of course, that's the '94 annual, and thus (IIRC) 
falls into the Gap.  But still, for completeness' sake, I mention 
it.

: IM:BB 4-FB
: IM3 8-BTS
: TB 26
: TB 35
: TB 36
: TB 37
: GAM3 16
: IM:BB 1
: IM:BB 2
: IM:BB 3
: IM:BB 4

--Sean Curtin

			*	*	*

Re: Iron Man: Bad Blood #1-4
Posted by Tom Lynch on March 10, 2001 at 11:12:04:
In Reply to: Iron Man: Bad Blood #1-4 
posted by Paul O'Brien on October 31, 2000 at 17:22:15:

: I see we're looking here for chronology for the entire series.  
No problem.

: This series came out when the Joe Quesada run was already 
underway.  However, Iron Man is still wearing his Heroes Return 
armour.  That would logically place the series in the gap between 
IM3 25 and IM3 26, where it fits perfectly happily for all those 
characters appearing.

Slight snag for continuity; Happy is apparently already in his 
post as Maria Stark foundation liason, judging by what Tony yells 
at him for. But this didn't happen until the new armour, the one 
that couldn't fit in a briefcase, and Tony's armour is in a 
briefcase.

			*	*	*

A small Howard the Duck correction
Posted by Blazing Skull on November 01, 2000 at 09:53:07:

You have the Howard the Duck story in Marvel treasury edition #12 
listed as taking place between HTD 14 and HTD @1, but it actually 
takes place between HTD 7 and HTD 8.

HTD 8 opens with Howard and Bev Switzler leaving Dr. Strange's 
mansion after that story. And the Treasury Edition isn't listed 
at all on Bev Switzler's listing.

By the way, thanks for this site, it's fantastic.

			*	*	*

Marvel: The Lost Generation#3
Posted by Prime Eternal on November 01, 2000 at 11:25:26:

This issue is set in Spring of 1961.

Characters include:

Effigy, Nightingale, Liberty Girl, Yankee Clipper, Kid Justice, the 
Hipster (earlier alias of Fred MacRae, aka Captain Hip), Pixie, 
Yellow Claw, Fritz Von Voltzmann, Sub-Mariner, Namora, Byrrah, 
Krang, Vyrra, Mako, Black Fox, and Cassandra Locke.

Part of the story re-does the final page of Lost Generation#7 
with word-for-word dialogue. Thus, the entries for Cassandra 
Locke, Sub-Mariner and Yellow Claw should appear:

M:LG 3
M:LG 3~M:LG 7
M:LG 3

Cassandra appears here following Lost Generation#7. The Yellow Claw 
and Von Voltzmann appear following the 1950's Yellow Claw series. 
The Sub-Mariner appears next in Thunderbolts Minus One. Vyrra 
appears following the flashback in Namor#20.

Michael Hoskin

			*	*	*

Spidey characters updated for UTSM series
Posted by John Simons on November 03, 2000 at 01:06:04:

Hello all!

The following is the revised chronologies of all the characters 
who played significant roles in the UTSM series. Individual 
analyses of each issue will follow, but for characters which 
appeared in most issues it seemed easier to present the info 
this way.

The only character you won't see here is Spider-Man himself, 
since someone has already done his UTSM chronology. The only 
corrections I would mention are moving UTSM: SE, as I mentioned 
in a previous post, and adding in the ASM: PL appearences, also 
from a previous post.

99.9% of the following is based on info from Marvel themselves, 
they give continuity charts coordinated ASM with UTSM in UTSM 14 
and UTSM 25. 

The chronologies below update each character through their first 
post-UTSM appearence. 

AVRIL, SALLY/ BLUEBIRD
This listing harkens back to a question I posed in my ASM: SE 
post, namely, how is it determined under which name a character 
is placed? I argued that Frederick Foswell should be found under 
F, rather than B, since he only made one appearence as the Big 
Man. Similarly, I would suggest Sally stay under A for Avril, 
and under B simply leave a notation "Bluebird: See Avril, Sally" 
(she was only Bluebird for about an issue and a half)
AAF 15
AAF 16
AAF 18
UTSM 1
UTSM 2
UTSM 3
UTSM 4
UTSM 5
UTSM 6
UTSM 7
UTSM 8
UTSM 9
UTSM 10
UTSM 11
UTSM 12
UTSM 13

GREEN GOBLIN/NORMAN OSBORN
(Obviously the FB's from Revenge of the Green Goblin mini still 
need to be added)
S-M -1
PPTSS@ 14-FB
ASM '97-FB
UTSM 1 (Currently mistakenly listed as BTS, but he actually appears)
UTSM 2 (Currently mistakenly listed as BTS, but he actually appears)
UTSM 4
UTSM 8
ASM 14
UTSM 18
ASM 17
UTSM 20
ASM 18
UTSM 22
ASM 23
UTSM@ '97
UTSM 25
ASM 25

IONELLO, JASON
AAF 17-FB
AAF 16
AAF 17
AAF 18
UTSM 1
UTSM 2
UTSM 3
UTSM 4
UTSM 5
UTSM 6
UTSM 7
UTSM 8
UTSM 9
UTSM 10
UTSM 11
UTSM 12
UTSM 13
UTSM 14
UTSM 15
UTSM 16
UTSM: SE
UTSM 18
UTSM 19
UTSM 20
UTSM 21
UTSM 22
UTSM 23
UTSM@ '97
UTSM 24

JAMESON, J. JONAH
CA 155-FB-BTS
SGT. FURY 110
ASM -1
ASM 190-FB
ASM 140-FB
UTSM 12-FB
AAF 18
ASM 1
PPTSS 225/2-FB
ASM 2
ASMU 18-FB
ASM 3
ASM 4
ASM 5
XF 139-FB
ASM 6
IM:IA 2
UTSM 1
UTSM 2
ASM 7
UTSM 3
UTSM 4
ASM 9
UTSM 5
UTSM 6
UTSM 7
ASM 10
UTSM 8
UTSM 9
ASM 12
UTSM 10
ASM 12
UTSM 11
UTSM 12
ASM 13
ASM 14
UTSM 15
ASM 15
SENSM '96
ASM 15
SENSM '96
ASM 15
SENSM '96
ASM 15
UTSM: SE
ASM 16
ASM@ 1
UTSM 19
ASM 17
UTSM 20
ASM 18
UTSM 22
ASM 19
ASM 20
UTSM 23
UTSM@ '97
ASM 21
UTSM@ '96 
ASM 22
ASM 23
UTSM 25
ASM 24
ASM 25

LEEDS, BETTY BRANT
UTSM 12- FB
ASM 4
ASM 5
ASM 6
UTSM 1
UTSM 2
ASM 7
UTSM 3- FB
UTSM 3
UTSM 4
ASM 9
UTSM 5
UTSM 6
UTSM 7
ASM 10
ASM 11
ASM 12
UTSM 10
ASM 12
UTSM 11
UTSM 12
UTSM 13
ASM 13
UTSM 14
ASM 14
UTSM 15
UTSM 16
ASM 15
SENSM '96
ASM 15
SENSM '96
ASM 15
UTSM 17
UTSM: SE
ASM 16
UTSM 18
ASM@ 1
UTSM 19
ASM 17
UTSM 20
UTSM 21
ASM 18
ASM 19
ASM 20
UTSM 23
UTSM@ '97
ASM 21
UTSM@ '96 
ASM 22
ASM 23
ASM 24
ASM 25

McKEEVER, "TINY"
AAF 17-FB
AAF 17
AAF 18
UTSM 1
UTSM 2
UTSM 3
UTSM 4
UTSM 5
UTSM 6
UTSM 7
UTSM 9
UTSM 14
UTSM 15
UTSM 16
UTSM 18
UTSM 19
UTSM 20
UTSM@ '97
AAF 17-FB
AAF 16
AAF 17
AAF 18
UTSM 1
UTSM 2
UTSM 3
UTSM 4
UTSM 5
UTSM 6
UTSM 7
UTSM 8
UTSM 9
UTSM 10
UTSM 11
UTSM 12
UTSM 13
UTSM 14
UTSM 15
UTSM 16
UTSM: SE
UTSM 18
UTSM 19
UTSM 20
UTSM 21
UTSM 22
UTSM 23
UTSM@ '97
UTSM 2@ '96
UTSM 24

OSBORN, HARRY
PPTSS@ 14-FB
UTSM 4
UTSM 8
UTSM 25
ASM 31

OSBORN, LIZ ALLAN
AAF 17-FB
AAF 15
ASM: PL
AAF 16
AAF 18
ASM 4
ASM 6
UTSM 1
UTSM 2
ASM 7
ASM 8
UTSM 3
UTSM 4
ASM 9
ASM 10
UTSM 5
UTSM 6
UTSM 7
ASM 10
UTSM 10
ASM 12
UTSM 11
UTSM 13
ASM 13
UTSM 14
ASM 14
UTSM 15
UTSM 16
ASM 15
SENSM '96
ASM 15
SENSM '96
ASM 15
UTSM: SE
UTSM 18
ASM@ 1
UTSM 19
ASM 17
UTSM 20
UTSM 21
ASM 18
UTSM 22
ASM 20
UTSM 23
UTSM@ '97
UTSM@ '96
ASM 22
UTSM 24
UTSM 25
ASM 24
ASM 25

PARKER, BEN
ASM 147- FB
(In UTSM -1-FB, Ben and May attend wedding of Mary and Richard 
Parker. Since I don't have PPSM2 1/2, I'm only guessing it fits 
here)
PPSM2 1/2-FB
(so far this chronology is missing PPSM2 20-FB, but I don't have 
enough of these other comics to place it accurately)
SENSM -1
SM -1
ASM -1
ASM: PL
AAF 15
ASM: PL
ASM 200- FB

PARKER, MAY
ASM 370/2-FB
ASM 147-FB
PPTSS 225/2-FB
(UTSM -1-FB, in which she and Ben attend the wedding of Richard and 
Mary Parker, obviously takes places before the ASM@ 5-FB, but since 
I do not own the three comics above I can't place it more 
specifically)
ASM@ 5-FB
ASM: PL
ASM@5 5-FB
ASM 370/2-FB
PPSM2 1/2-FB
ASM 370/2-FB
ASM 81-FB
(so far this chronology is missing PPSM2 20-FB, but I don't have 
enough of these other comics to place it accurately)
SENSM -1
ASM -1
AAF 17-FB
SM -1
ASM 370/2-FB
AAF 15
PPTSS 60/2
AAF 15
ASMU 10-FB
PPTSS 189/2-FB-BTS
ASMU 10-FB
PPTSS 189/2-FB
AAF 15-BTS ~ PPTSS 189/2-FB
(Someplace during AAF 15 occurs ASM 200-FB and ASM: PL, section 9)
ASM 400/3
AAF 16
SPECSM 1/2
AAF 16 ~ PPTSS 60/2
ASMU 10-FB
PPTSS 60/2
AAF 16
PPTSS 60/2
AAF 16
AAF 17
AAF 18
ASM 1
ASM 3
ASM 4
ASM 5
ASM 6
UTSM 1
UTSM 2
ASM 7
USM /2
ASM 7
UTSM 3
UTSM 4
ASM 9
ASM 10
UTSM 5
UTSM 6- BTS (leaves Peter a note)
UTSM 9
ASM 11
UTSM 10
ASM 12
UTSM 11
UTSM 12
UTSM 13
ASM 13
UTSM 14
ASM 14
SENSM '96
ASM 15
SENSM '96
UTSM 17
UTSM: SE
ASM 16
ASM@ 1
UTSM 19
ASM 17
UTSM 20
UTSM 21
ASM 18
UTSM 22
ASM18~UTSM 22
ASM 18
ASM 19
ASM 20
UTSM@ '97
ASM 21
UTSM@ '96
ASM 22
UTSM 24
ASM 23
UTSM 25
ASM 24
ASM 25

PARKER, RICHARD 
UTSM -1-FB
UTSM -1
ASM@ 5-FB
ASM: PL
ASM@5 5-FB

PARKER, MARY 
UTSM -1-FB
UTSM -1
ASM@ 5-FB
ASM: PL
ASM@5 5-FB

SHIFFMAN, MAXIE
AAF 15
WOSM 90-FB
AAF 15-BTS ~ WOSM 90-FB
AAF 16
AAF 17
AAF 18
ASM 1

STACY, GWEN
S-M -1
UTSM 4
UTSM 8
UTSM 25
ASM 31

THOMPSON, EUGENE "FLASH"
PPTSS -1
AAF 17-FB
AAF 15
ASM: PL
AAF 16
AAF 17
AAF 18
ASM 2
ASM 3
ASM 4
ASM 5
ASM 6
UTSM 1
UTSM 2
ASM 7
UTSM 3
ASM 8
UTSM 4
ASM 9
ASM 10
UTSM 5
UTSM 6
UTSM 7
ASM 10
UTSM 8
UTSM 9
UTSM 10
ASM 12
UTSM 11
UTSM 13
ASM 13
ASM 14
UTSM 15
UTSM 16
ASM 15
SENSM '96
ASM 15-BTS
SENSM '96-BTS
ASM 15
UTSM: SE
UTSM 18
ASM@ 1
UTSM 19
ASM 17
UTSM 20
UTSM 21
ASM 18
UTSM 22
ASM 19
ASM 20
UTSM 23
UTSM@ '97
ASM 21
UTSM@ '96
ASM 22
UTSM 24
UTSM 25
ASM 24
ASM 25

WATSON, ANNA
(In my notes for ASM: PL, my notations for Anna and MJ were a 
little bit off, they are corrected here)
PPTSS 257-FB
PPSM2 1/2-FB
ASM 259-FB
ASM: PL (Section 3)
ASM: PL (Section 9)
ASM: PL (Section 12)
UTSM 16 
ASM 15 
SENSM '96-BTS (I don't have this annual, but since it apparently 
takes place during ASM 15 I'm leaving it here)
ASM: PL (Section 14)
UTSM:SE
UTSM 19
UTSM 20
ASM 18
UTSM 22
UTSM 25
ASM 28
ASM: PL
ASM 30

WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE
PPSM2 1/2-FB
ASM 259-FB
ASM: PL (section 2)
ASM 259-FB
ASM: PL (section 3)
ASM 259-FB
ASM: PL (Section 5)
ASM 259-FB
ASM: PL (Section 8)
ASM 259-FB
ASM: PL (Section 9)
ASM: PL (Section 14)
ASM 15-BTS
ASM 16-BTS
ASM 259- FB
UTSM:SE
ASM 25

In addition, may I humbly suggest that some married characters 
have a cross-reference under their maiden names? Such as: "Allan, 
Liz see: Osborn, Liz Allan" or "Brant, Betty. See: Leeds, Betty 
Brant"

John

			*	*	*

Re: Spidey characters updated for UTSM series
Posted by Michel Racaud</a> on November 03, 2000 at 19:54:23:
In Reply to: Spidey characters updated for UTSM series
posted by John Simons on November 03, 2000 at 01:06:04:

Hi John.

Very impressive job you did here, congratulations :-)

: PARKER, MAY
: ASM 370/2-FB
: ASM 147-FB
: PPTSS 225/2-FB
: (UTSM -1-FB, in which she and Ben attend the wedding of Richard 
and Mary Parker, obviously takes places before the ASM@ 5-FB, but 
since I do not own the three comics above I can't place it more 
specifically)

Actually they're 10 flashbacks in Amazing Spider-Man #370/2

FB1 (May Reilly and her parents) : May is a little girl and feels 
guilty because her parents often quarrel

FB2 (May Reilly and her parents) : When her father quits, she vainly 
tries to hold him back by promising she'll be cute

FB3 (May Reilly and her mother) : Her mother reproaches May for 
being responsible of her father's departure. Without her, they 
would have do it, children are pests.

FB4 (May Reilly, Ben Parker, Richard Parker) : When May flirts 
with Ben, he always brings his young brother Richard, so they're 
never alone. Even after her marriage May won't like children, for 
her they are a burden.

FB5 (May Parker, Ben Parker, Richard Parker, Mary Parker) : May and 
Ben attend Richard and Mary's marriage

FB6 (May Parker, Ben Parker, Richard Parker, Mary Parker, Peter 
Parker) : Everybody is under the spell of baby Peter

FB7 (May Parker, Ben Parker, Peter Parker) : After Richard and Mary's 
deaths, May and Ben have decided to raise Peter, but May's first 
reaction was anger because she was sure Peter would destroy her 
marriage as she had destroyed her parents' one.

FB8 (May Parker, Peter Parker) : But this feeling disappears as 
Peter grows up. At circa six years old, he helps May when she works 
in the garden.

FB9 (May Parker, Ben Parker, Peter Parker) : At circa fifteen years 
old, Peter receives a science prize.

FB10 (May Parker, Peter Parker, Mary-Jane Watson-Parker) : May 
watches Peter and MJ at their marriage.

In Amazing Spider-Man #147, when MJ complains she hasn't seen Peter 
for a while, May remembers how shy Ben was. If she hadn't made the 
first move, she would still be a spinster. But in the flashback we 
only see a young Ben Parker, May doesn't appear (at least in my 
french edition, maybe a panel has been cut ?)

In Spectacular Spider-Man #225/2, they are three flashbacks involving 
May :

FB1 (May Parker, Ben Parker, Richard Parker, Mary Parker, Peter 
Parker) : Richard and Mary go away for a mission and leave Peter 
to May and Ben (in front of their bouse, in the Annual #5 this scene 
happens at the airport)

FB2 (May Parker, Ben Parker, Peter Parker) : soon before Ben's 
murder, the Parker form a close family.

FB3 (May Parker, Peter Parker) : soon after Ben's murder, Peter 
tries to comfort May.

So the beginning of May's chronology could be :

ASM 370/2 - FB
ASM 370/2 - FB
ASM 370/2 - FB
ASM 147 - FB - BTS
ASM 370/2 - FB
ASM 370/2 - FB ~ UTSM -1 - FB
ASM 370/2 - FB
ASM@ 5 - FB
ASM : PL - FB ~ PPTSS 225/2 - FB
ASM@ 5 - FB
ASM@ 5 - FB
ASM 370/2 - FB
...

Surprisingly, these flashbacks appear currently in the MCP in 
May's chronology but not in Ben's, and Richard and Mary don't 
appear at all.

			*	*	*

Bucky boo-boo!
Posted by John Simons on November 03, 2000 at 01:17:49:

Hey-

Under "Bucky III" you have his identity listed as Jack Norriss, 
but actually his name is Jack Monroe. Under Nomad you have it 
right! Jack Norriss is a completely different character, although 
for some reason people seem to confuse these two all the time.

John

			*	*	*

Baron Zemo I correction
Posted by Yellow Claw on November 04, 2000 at 06:58:35:

According to the MCP, Zemo's chronology is as follows:

ZEMO/BARON HEINRICH ZEMO
CA '98-FB
TB -1-FB
SGT. FURY 8
A 6-FB
CA 168-FB
CA: MEDUSA EFFECT

However, in CA '98-FB and TB -1-FB, Zemo has his trademark 
hood, which he only donned after Sgt. Fury issue 8. 

Therefore Sgt. Fury 8 must come before these two appearances.

Reagrds,

Yellow Claw.

			*	*	*

Actually...
Posted by Yellow Claw on November 04, 2000 at 07:00:59:
In Reply to: Baron Zemo I correction 
posted by Yellow Claw on November 04, 2000 at 06:58:35:

They also come after A 6-FB and CA 168-FB. So the chronology 
should read:

ZEMO/BARON HEINRICH ZEMO
SGT. FURY 8
A 6-FB
CA 168-FB
CA '98-FB
TB -1-FB
CA: MEDUSA EFFECT

Yellow Claw.

			*	*	*

Re: Actually...
Posted by Yellow Claw on November 06, 2000 at 12:32:02:
In Reply to: Actually... 
posted by Yellow Claw on November 04, 2000 at 07:00:59:

: : Therefore Sgt. Fury 8 must come before these two appearances.

: They also come after A 6-FB and CA 168-FB. So the chronology 
should read:

: ZEMO/BARON HEINRICH ZEMO

: SGT. FURY 8
: A 6-FB
: CA 168-FB
: CA '98-FB
: TB -1-FB
: CA: MEDUSA EFFECT

Further to this, ths flashback in TB -1 is specifically dated 
as 1943, In the Medusa Effect, Zemo sends Master Man to America, 
where he encounters Captain America on January 7th 1943. Therefore 
it seems likely, given that Zemo has been working on the Medusa 
cannon for some time, that Medusa effect is set before TB-1-FB.

Regards,

Yellow Claw.

			*	*	*

Sgt. Fury#13 & Captain America#383
Posted by Prime Eternal on November 04, 2000 at 18:05:32:

Sgt. Fury#13, which depicts the first meeting of Nick Fury and 
Captain America, was re-told in the second story of Captain 
America#383, from the perspective of Captain America & Bucky, 
rather than Fury & the Howling Commandos. As a result, there 
were entirely new scenes added, but also a number of instances 
where complete dialogue- and even panel layouts- duplicated Sgt. 
Fury#13.

Here are the entries for all the characters involved. Only Sgt. 
Fury#13 contained characters who did not appear in the re-telling.

FURY, NICK
SGT FURY 13
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13

RALSTON, ROBERT "REB"
SGT FURY 13
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13

CAPTAIN AMERICA
SGT FURY 13
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13

BUCKY
SGT FURY 13
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13

MANELLI, DINO
SGT FURY 13
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13

DUGAN, DUM-DUM
SGT FURY 13
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13

JONES, GABE
SGT FURY 13
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13

COHEN, ISADOR "IZZY"
SGT FURY 13
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13

PINKERTON, PERCIVAL "PINKY"
SGT FURY 13
CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13
SGT FURY 13 ~ CA 383/2
SGT FURY 13

MCGIVENEY, BULL
SGT FURY 13

HAWLEY, PAMELA
SGT FURY 13

SAWYER, SAM
SGT FURY 13

If anyone would like me to post a complete page-by-page, 
panel-by-panel list of how events in the two different versions 
occur, I can comply.

I've got a few other World War 2 corrections for Cap, Bucky, 
the Howlers and the Red Skull that I'll get to later.

For now though, I will observe that the story in Captain 
America#9- in which Captain America and the Howlers battle 
the Red Skull in a flashback- occurs AFTER Sgt. Fury#13, 
being as Cap & Fury already know each other (under Captain 
America's chronology, Cap Annual#9 is placed before Fury#13 
for some reason).

Michael Hoskin

			*	*	*

Re: Sgt. Fury#13 & Captain America#383
Posted by Ron Flick on June 10, 2001 at 22:14:36:
In Reply to: Sgt. Fury#13 & Captain America#383
posted by Prime Eternal on November 04, 2000 at 18:05:32:

I just heard of the chronology project from the letters page in 
Citizen V and the V Battalion limited series and as I perusing 
the messages I read your post from many months ago.  Being a 
huge Captain America fan, especially of his WWII years, I am 
interested in knowing what your corrections are concerning Bucky, 
Howlers, etc.  If you have already posted them, I may have overlooked 
them.

			*	*	*

Vertigo II appears first in MFAN #1 not #2
Posted by drOrlof on November 05, 2000 at 03:52:25:

Just trying to help out.

d.

			*	*	*

IRON MAN 296
Posted by H.T.22 on November 06, 2000 at 17:51:47:

OMEGA RED AND MODAM ALSO APPEAR IN IRON MAN 296 (VOL.1)

			*	*	*

Scorch II, and the replacement Speedball
Posted by Flank McLargehuge on November 07, 2000 at 01:43:40:

The Scorch you have listed is evidently not the Scorch that appeared 
in NIGHT THRASHER #13-14, a vietnamese mutant who led a street gang 
called the Steel Waves in Hell's Kitchen, and used the network he 
created to become a successful businessman, at which point he lost 
the codename.  The comic is dated August '94, so I'd expect it's 
older than the BISHOP issues.  Scorch only, to my knowledge, appeared 
in two issues, in the main story and a flashback from the first 
issue recounting a story of Night Thrasher's time as an un-costumed 
vigilante.  His chronology, would read:

SCORCH I/TOMMY NG
NT2 13-FB
NT2 13
NT2 14

Also, I submitted analyses of NEW WARRIORS #69-71, and then looked at 
Speedball's chronology and found that Speedball II wasn't even 
listed.  In NEW WARRIORS #50 a Speedball was pulled out of the 
Kinetic Dimension, but in the "Future Shock" four-parter which ended 
in #71 it was revealed that this wasn't Speedball at all, but a 
duplicate perfect down to the molecular level, but with enhanced 
control over his kinetic field, a cybernetic 'SOS' beacon implant 
in his wrist, and another person's mind downloaded into his head, 
and lying dormant.  The other person was a young scientist from the 
year 2092 (in the Marvel 2099 timeline) named Darrion Grobe, who had 
created a machine to travel through time using the Kinetic Dimension.  His father Kyle used the machine he and Darrion invented, and was turned into a cyborg supervillain called Advent and spit out in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.  An entry for Advent would be:<p>ADVENT/KYLE GROBE<br>NW 70-FB ~ NW 68<br>NW 69-FB<br>NW 70<br>NW 71<p>But there's an added complication that there ended up being TWO Advents, one who was defeated in the present and one who survived to be defeated in 2092.  An entry for this second Advent would be.<p>ADVENT 2092/KYLE GROBE<br>NW 70-FB ~ NW 68<br>NW 70-FB ~ NW 69-FB<br>NW 70<br>NW 71<p>As for Speedball II/Darrion Grobe, the part of Speedball's chronology that was really him is<p>SPEEDBALL II/ROBBIE BALDWIN II/DARRION GROBE<br>NW 50<br>NW 51<br>NW 52<br>NT2 16<br>NO2 14<br>NW 54<br>NW 55<br>NW 56<br>ASM:F&E 1<br>NW 57<br>NT2 20<br>NW 58<br>NW 59<br>NW 60<br>NW 61<br>MC:A<br>PPTSS 227<br>NW 62<br>PPTSS 228<br>WOSM 129<br>NW 63<br>NW 64 ~ NW 59<br>NW 65<br>NW 66<br>NW 67<br>NW 68<p>And, with his appearances in #69-71 added (I've sent analyses):

SPEEDBALL II/ROBBIE BALDWIN II/DARRION GROBE
NW 70-FB
NW 50 ~ NW 70-FB
NW 51
NW 52
NT2 16
NO2 14
NW 54
NW 55
NW 56
ASM:F&E 1
NW 57
NT2 20
NW 58
NW 59
NW 60
NW 61
MC:A
PPTSS 227
NW 62
PPTSS 228
WOSM 129
NW 63
NW 64 ~ NW 59
NW 65
NW 66
NW 67
NW 68
NW 69
NW 70

There are a couple of dreams images in #65 that are warped 
flashbacks, but I don't think they really count.  Complicating 
matters more, after the Speedball duplicate was killed (he died 
in 69, but his body showed up in NW #70, and his mind lived on 
in Timeslip's head, and did a bunch of flashbacks in that issue), 
there was a holographic version of Darrion that the Warriors met 
in 2092, and after the timelines re-set themselves there was a new 
version, shown in one issue.

DARRION GROBE HOLOGRAM
NW 71

DARRION GROBE 2092
NW 71

So, that's all a big mess.

			*	*	*

Another Bucky Boo-Boo!!!
Posted by Lord Zorn on November 07, 2000 at 09:55:52:

Russ

According to the OHOTMU, Bucky I's full name should be "James 
Buchanan "Bucky" Barnes. That is why when Captain America saw a 
picture of Agamemnon's "real", immortally young self, somewhere 
in the Hulk's "Pantheon" period, he mistook him for Bucky and 
led you to list "James ?" as one of Agamemnon's
aliases

Lord Zorn, who promises to be more "chapter and verse" once he 
gets going<G>

			*	*	*

More hodgepodge...
Posted by Prime Eternal on November 07, 2000 at 10:55:27:

TEN FOUR
His name is actually spelt "Ten For". His chronology should include 
Machine Man#2 (Behind-the-scenes), #3 (1st appearance), 4, 5, & 6.

HAROKIN
He made his first appearances in the "Tales of Asgard" stories in 
Thor#129, 130, 131, 132, & 133.

HAMIR
His chronology is missing Strange Tales#130 (1st appearance), 132, 
133, 134, 136, 137, 138 & 141.

WONG
His chronology is missing Dr. Strange Vol.3 #50.

WRAITH, JOHN
Isn't this the same character as EXPEDITER?

GLIB
Same character as ARKANIAN, GLIB.

LEBRE, VEEDA
Same character as LEEBRE, VEEDA.

ION
Her first appearance was in Machine Man#15.

ISAAC
His appearance in Solo Avengers#16 is Behind-the-Scenes.

SUNDRAGON
Her appearances in Solo Avengers were not issues 18, 19 & 20. They 
were 16, 18 and 20.

Michael Hoskin

			*	*	*

Re: More hodgepodge...
Posted by Paul O'Brien on November 07, 2000 at 18:10:17:
In Reply to: More hodgepodge... 
posted by Prime Eternal on November 07, 2000 at 10:55:27:

: WRAITH, JOHN
: Isn't this the same character as EXPEDITER?

Assuming we're talking about the guy with the big guns in the 
Omega Red/Wolverine flashbacks, then yes, that's the same guy.  
"Expediter" wasn't a code name, it was just a description of 
his role in the operation.  Larry Hama later reused the name 
(or perhaps job title) for Zoe Culloden, who went on to become 
a supporting character in Deadpool.

			*	*	*

Not sure, but do i mention a missed comic?
Posted by Homerbert on November 10, 2000 at 17:11:02:

Deadpool had an appearance in Wolverine 92 (or so) but it's not 
listed. I'm sure there are others. I'm new to the site and i've 
read theh Faq, it's not during the gap, so should i point out 
things like that. 

Thanks

			*	*	*

Re: Not sure, but do i mention a missed comic?
Posted by Homerbert on November 11, 2000 at 08:17:07:
In Reply to: Not sure, but do i mention a missed comic?
posted by Homerbert on November 10, 2000 at 17:11:02:

: Deadpool had an appearance in Wolverine 92 (or so) but it's not 
listed. I'm sure there are others. I'm new to the site and i've 
read theh Faq, it's not during the gap, so should i point out 
things like that. 

: Thanks

Actually its in issue 88, and it has references to and appearances 
by kaine and deadpools shapechanging ex. It's after his econd 
series, but before his third.

Also Deadpool appears at the end of the Wolvie 97 annual.<br>

			*	*	*

Re: Not sure, but do i mention a missed comic?
Posted by Russ Chappell on November 27, 2000 at 21:08:25:
In Reply to: Not sure, but do i mention a missed comic?
posted by Homerbert on November 10, 2000 at 17:11:02:

> Deadpool had an appearance in Wolverine 92 (or so) but it's not 
listed. I'm sure there are others. I'm new to the site and i've 
read theh Faq, it's not during the gap, so should i point out things 
like that. 

Yes, if the book has been analyzed--and since W2 88 appears in 
Wolverine's listing, it has been--then you should point it out.

Thanks.

			*	*	*

Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
Posted by Eric J. Lawrence on November 10, 2000 at 17:13:34:

I don't know how many of you read the Hellcat limited series that 
just came out, but it seems to me to have made one of the most 
radical character revisions in the post-Silver Age of Marvel 
comics!!!

I believe the series was in part designed as a lead-in to the 
forthcoming Defenders project, coupled with Hellcat's involvement 
with the recent Avengers/Thunderbolts annuals.

But what they did was dramatically alter a long-standing (if 
ill-used) character with numerous appearances in various mags.  
Daimon Hellstrom, the so-called Son of Satan, has now been revealed 
to be the actual son of Dormammu via Satannish!!!  And Daimon 
appears to confirm this in issue 3 of the series, suggesting that 
he has known all along, despite having numerous run-ins with "Satan" 
in early appearances in Marvel Spotlight & Ghost Rider, as well as 
when he was part of the Defenders (issue 100 in particular), and 
later in the Hellstorm series.

What then do we do with the chronology?  Are those appearances of 
Satan suspect? Was Daimon only pretending to confront his father, 
Satan, or was he tricked/brainwashed somehow?  Is "Satan" actually 
Dormammu in disguise?  Are those appearance like fake memories?

I know it's not quite a "Spiderman clone" kind of problem, but 
Daimon's not that unimportant a character that this can be simply 
swept under Marvel's rug?

I'm curious to hear what others' thoughts are on this issue.

			*	*	*

Re: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
Posted by Paul O'Brien on November 11, 2000 at 06:36:09:
In Reply to: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
posted by Eric J. Lawrence on November 10, 2000 at 17:13:34:

My instinct at this stage is to dismiss it as demonic trickery.  
The miniseries was not well received, to put it mildly, and unless 
this was deliberate set-up for Busiek and Larsen's Defenders series, 
I would expect to see it quietly reversed.  It doesn't even make 
any internal sense - how can Daimon have a realm he inherited from 
his father (which was expressly mentioned in the Hellcat mini) if 
his father(s) are Dormammu and Satannish, both of whom are still in 
charge of their own dimensions?

Until it's absolutely cemented in continuity, I would just ignore 
it as an error.

			*	*	*

Re: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
Posted by Yellow Claw on November 13, 2000 at 08:46:01:
In Reply to: Re: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
posted by Paul O'Brien on November 11, 2000 at 06:36:09:

: My instinct at this stage is to dismiss it as demonic trickery.  
The miniseries was not well received, to put it mildly, and unless 
this was deliberate set-up for Busiek and Larsen's Defenders series, 
I would expect to see it quietly reversed.  It doesn't even make any 
internal sense - how can Daimon have a realm he inherited from his 
father (which was expressly mentioned in the Hellcat mini) if his 
father(s) are Dormammu and Satannish, both of whom are still in 
charge of their own dimensions?

However it happened, I think we have to accept it until such time 
as it is retconned. Therefore, like it or not, Daimon IS the son 
of Satannish. 

My feeling reading the issue is that he was unaware of this until 
Dormammu "activated" him, but regardless of this I don't see how it 
affects his chronology, or that of Satan. Until we are told 
otherwise, I think we also have to assume that Satan (who is still, 
insofar as we know, the father of Satana) believed that Daimon was 
his son. True, we don't know how this deceit was achieved, but I 
think ignoring it until someone undoes it because fans don't like it 
betrays the spirit of the MCP. That's just my opinion.

: Until it's absolutely cemented in continuity, I would just ignore 
it as an error.

I don't think it should be ignored, no more than the Teen Tony Iron 
Man issues should be.

Cheers,
Yellow Claw.

			*	*	*

Re: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
Posted by Eric J. Lawrence on November 13, 2000 at 13:19:04:
In Reply to: Re: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
posted by Yellow Claw on November 13, 2000 at 08:46:01:

I accept the theory that if Satan was deceived throughout & 
that Dormammu "activated" Daimon just recently, that there may 
be no need to modify their respective chronologies. But should 
Dormammu and/or Satannish be listed with a "BTS" on Daimon's 
origin issues? 

I really hope Marvel comes up with a good explanation for this one.

EJL

			*	*	*

Re: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
Posted by Paul O'Brien on November 14, 2000 at 07:43:30:
In Reply to: Re: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
posted by Yellow Claw on November 13, 2000 at 08:46:01:

: However it happened, I think we have to accept it until such 
time as it is retconned. Therefore, like it or not, Daimon IS 
the son of Satannish. 

Taking the comments of demons at face value is a dodgy business, 
at least in the Marvel Universe.  The issue gives us a load of 
dialogue with an explanation that makes no sense and can't be 
reconciled with continuity, and some ambiguous supporting evidence.  
I don't think the scene establishes anything whatsoever.

			*	*	*

Re: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
Posted by Yellow Claw on November 15, 2000 at 05:22:32:
In Reply to: Re: Daimon Hellstrom/Satan utter revision
posted by Paul O'Brien on November 14, 2000 at 07:43:30:

: Taking the comments of demons at face value is a dodgy business, 
at least in the Marvel Universe.  The issue gives us a load of 
dialogue with an explanation that makes no sense and can't be 
reconciled with continuity, and some ambiguous supporting evidence.  
I don't think the scene establishes anything whatsoever.

I agree about your assesment of the issues, but I think that it 
*can* be reconciled with continuity, since it doesn't change any 
appearances insofar as we know, except maybe adding some BTS 
appearances for Dormammu and Satannish. Satan appeared in all the 
issues listed in the MCP, as did Daimon. Their relationship might 
not be what we thought, but they still appeared in those comics. 
And whilst its true that Demons can't be trusted, the fact remains 
that until we get clarification in another comic, I think we have to 
accept it. Like I said, I don't think we should second-guess creators 
just because we don't like certain issues (incidentally, I do agree 
with your opinion of the retcon - it was unnecessary and irritating)

Cheers,
Yellow Claw.
			*	*	*

Ultraverse
Posted by Anon on November 10, 2000 at 17:52:23:

Since the Ultraverse has been incorporated into Marvel, wouldn't 
it be considered part of Marvel continuity? (Esp. Rune gaining 
the Infinity Gems, though the fact that he crosses over with Conan 
messes everything up) 

			*	*	*

Re: Ultraverse
Posted by Russ Chappell on November 10, 2000 at 17:58:46:
In Reply to: Ultraverse
posted by Anon on November 10, 2000 at 17:52:23:

> Since the Ultraverse has been incorporated into Marvel, wouldn't 
it be considered part of Marvel continuity? (Esp. Rune gaining the 
Infinity Gems, though the fact that he crosses over with Conan messes 
everything up) 

Probably so. At some point, I'm sure we'll be adding the Ultraverse, 
although it's a low priority for me right now. If someone wants to 
start contributing, I'm listening.

			*	*	*

Re: Ultraverse
Posted by Paul O'Brien on November 11, 2000 at 06:39:20:
In Reply to: Re: Ultraverse
posted by Russ Chappell on November 10, 2000 at 17:58:46:

> Probably so. At some point, I'm sure we'll be adding the 
Ultraverse, although it's a low priority for me right now. 
If someone wants to start contributing, I'm listening.

The last official word from Marvel on this was that the 
Ultraverse crossovers never happened.  Any of them.  At least, 
not as far as the Marvel characters were concerned.

Having said that, this statement was in the letters page of 
Marvel Vision of all places, so how seriously you take it is 
up to you.

			*	*	*

My two cents
Posted by Yellow Claw on November 13, 2000 at 08:50:34:
In Reply to: Re: Ultraverse 
posted by Paul O'Brien on November 11, 2000 at 06:39:20:

: The last official word from Marvel on this was that the 
Ultraverse crossovers never happened.  Any of them.  At least, 
not as far as the Marvel characters were concerned.

: Having said that, this statement was in the letters page of 
Marvel Vision> of all places, so how seriously you take it is 
up to you.

Also, the last statement I saw on the subject from Marvel 
explained that this was because Marvel no longer has the rights 
to the Ultraverse characters, so they'll never be able to use 
them again. This seems to me a silly argument, since they can 
still have happened, even if no one pens any sequels! Personally, 
I'd be inclined to add them, unless something happens in 
continuity which makes it impossible for them to have occured.

Cheers,
Yellow Claw.

			*	*	*

Re: My two cents
Posted by Russ Chappell on November 13, 2000 at 19:44:19:
In Reply to: My two cents 
posted by Yellow Claw on November 13, 2000 at 08:50:34:

> Also, the last statement I saw on the subject from Marvel 
explained that this was because Marvel no longer has the rights 
to the Ultraverse characters, so they'll never be able to use 
them again. This seems to me a silly argument, since they can 
still have happened, even if no one pens any sequels! 

Is Marvel making this claim only for "crossover" books (such as 
Silver Surfer/Rune), or all story elements? Didn't Juggernaut 
and Black Knight, to name two, have extensive adventures in the 
Ultraverse, or am I misremembering?

			*	*	*

Re: My two cents
Posted by Yellow Claw on November 14, 2000 at 05:55:18:
In Reply to: Re: My two cents
posted by Russ Chappell on November 13, 2000 at 19:44:19:

: Is Marvel making this claim only for "crossover" books (such 
as Silver Surfer/Rune), or all story elements? <br>Didn't 
Juggernaut and Black Knight, to name two, have extensive 
adventures in the Ultraverse, or am I misremembering?

Well this is the thing - their statements on the subject are 
wooly at best. This is exactly why I recommend ignoring their 
comments, since these characters (Juggie and Black Knight) did 
indeed have adventures in the Ultraverse, as did Sienna Blaze. 

Cheers,
Yellow Claw.

			*	*	*

Re: My two cents
Posted by Paul O'Brien on November 14, 2000 at 07:37:59:
In Reply to: Re: My two cents 
posted by Russ Chappell on November 13, 2000 at 19:44:19:

> Is Marvel making this claim only for "crossover" books (such as 
Silver Surfer/Rune), or all story elements? Didn't Juggernaut 
and Black Knight, to name two, have extensive adventures in the 
Ultraverse, or am I misremembering?

My recollection is that, from the Marvel Universe's point of 
view, we saw those characters leave, we saw them come back, 
and we were told that they'd been in another universe - but at 
no point was the Ultraverse specified.  Not in a Marvel Universe 
book, at any rate.  Anybody know of an unequivocal reference to 
the Ultraverse in canon?

This does at least have the virtue of explaining how Reaper can 
have been a member of the All-New Exiles when, IIRC, he was dead 
at the time.  The Juggernaut's eventual return also bore little 
resemblance to what we saw in All-New Exiles; the suggestion seemed 
to be that he had been trapped somewhere and had finally fought his 
way back to Earth (because, of course, "nothing stops the 
Juggernaut").

			*	*	*

Re: My two cents
Posted by Russ Chappell on November 14, 2000 at 08:43:00:
In Reply to: Re: My two cents 
posted by Paul O'Brien on November 14, 2000 at 07:37:59:

> My recollection is that, from the Marvel Universe's point 
of view, we saw those characters leave, we saw them come back, 
and we were told that they'd been in another universe - but 
at no point was the Ultraverse specified.  Not in a Marvel 
Universe book, at any rate.  Anybody know of an unequivocal 
reference to the Ultraverse in canon?

But this seems to contradict your statement in the Punisher: 
Painkiller Jane thread, which ran like this:

> My rule of thumb for these things is that if the story 
involves travel between the two seperate fictional universes 
(such as Marvel vs DC) then it's probably canon. If it works 
on the assumption that the characters just live in the same 
universe all along (like this one) then it's not.

Have there been any unequivocal references to Marvel vs. DC 
in canon?

			*	*	*

Re: My two cents
Posted by Paul O'Brien on November 14, 2000 at 15:27:57:
In Reply to: Re: My two cents 
posted by Russ Chappell on November 14, 2000 at 08:43:00:

: But this seems to contradict your statement in the Punisher: 
Painkiller Jane thread, which ran like this:

: > My rule of thumb for these things is that if the story 
involves travel between the two seperate fictional universes 
(such as Marvel vs DC) then it's probably canon. If it works 
on the assumption that the characters just live in the same 
universe all along (like this one) then it's not.

: Have there been any unequivocal references to Marvel vs. DC 
in canon?

Well, first, Marvel vs DC actually showed us the Marvel and 
DC Universes meeting.  As I recall, what we saw here was (in
the Marvel books) characters going off into an unspecified other 
dimension and coming back some time later.  During that time the 
characters were appearing in the Ultraverse; but the Marvel 
Universe books were totally silent on what they were up to.  
The Marvel Universe books didn't show us a crossover.

I don't believe Marvel vs DC's ever been referred to in another 
Marvel book (although I'm pretty sure DC have referred to it by 
having Access pop up somewhere).  But that was a clear, on-panel 
meeting of continuities.  Marvel/Ultraverse wasn't, at least not 
if you look at the Marvel books in isolation - which is what 
Marvel now seem to be asking us to do.  Taking it as a crossover 
raises some problematic continuity problems as well, which this 
helpfully avoids.

			*	*	*

Re: My two cents
Posted by Paul O'Brien on November 14, 2000 at 15:32:59:
In Reply to: Re: My two cents
posted by Paul O'Brien on November 14, 2000 at 15:27:57:

Oh, and one other thing - based purely on the published stories, 
I'd say it was more likely than not that the Ultraverse stuff 
was canon.  It's certainly what Marvel intended at the time.  
But given that they currently seem to be telling us that it isn't, 
it's their universe, and it's an area that's not exactly hard to 
delete, I tend to give Marvel the benefit of the doubt here.

			*	*	*

Re: My two cents
Posted by David Smith on November 28, 2000 at 13:36:50:
In Reply to: Re: My two cents
posted by Paul O'Brien on November 14, 2000 at 15:32:59:

Tossing my two cents in, the Ultraverse appearances count. AS 
you say, it's clearly what Marvel intended at the time and by 
the same token if we discard the Ultraverse stories, then we 
must also discrad Marvel vs DC as that too can be viewed as 
"isolated" from the Marvel universe stories (no mention outside 
of Marvel vs DC and sundry crossovers).<br>

			*	*	*

Re: My two cents
Posted by Andy Holcombe on June 15, 2001 at 13:28:56:
In Reply to: Re: My two cents 
posted by David Smith on November 28, 2000 at 13:36:50:

In an issue of Avengers, the Black Knight tries to contact the 
Avengers.  This scene is the same in Ultraforce.

			*	*	*

Deadpool
Posted by Max Bingman on November 11, 2000 at 00:23:21:

Hi.  

I noticed that you are missing a Taskmaster appearance from 
Deapool #2 (DPOOL3 2).

Your current listing looks like this:

ASM 366
ASM 367
HAWK2
DPOOL3 39
DPOOL3 40-FB

I know it either come before or after HAWK2, but I'm not certain 
when that was published.

Great site, by the way!

			*	*	*

Re: Deadpool
Posted by Max Bingman on November 13, 2000 at 22:27:48:
In Reply to: Deadpool 
posted by Max Bingman on November 11, 2000 at 00:23:21:

Okay, I got it now.  Taskmaster's appearance in DPOOL3 2 takes 
place between ASM 367 and HAWK2.  so it should look like this:

: ASM 366
: ASM 367
: DPOOL3 2
: HAWK2
: DPOOL3 39
: DPOOL3 40-FB

Later!

			*	*	*

Reprint books / added material question
Posted by Jeph, catching up on old posts... on November 11, 2000 
at 11:49:44:

As I've been cleaning out my comic collection over the last few 
weeks, I've started to notice things about the reprint books I 
own that make me wonder about chronology and canonicity.

Sometimes, a reprint book will add pages or panels of new material 
in order to make the page layout work.  It was done deliberately 
in the Classic X-Men series, in order to retroactively drop in 
continuity curios or to patch old scenes that no longer made sense, 
and in these cases the added scenes are regarded as canon.

But there are cases when it's done with a purely aesthetic purpose, 
like when a single story is spread across two reprint books, and 
a new splash page is needed to begin the second reprint book.

Example: Uncanny X-Men #59 is reprinted over X-Men Classics #1 and 
2.  The first page of X-Men Classics #2 is an entirely new page, a 
splash page reminding the reader where the story left off back where 
the reprint editors cut it off in X-CS #1.  Cyclops and co. are 
running towards a Sentinel shuttle, as Cyclops shouts "come on team, 
let's put our plan into action."

This is, technically, new material.  It's not a rehash of any other 
panel -- it constitutes a new line for Cyclops that should be 
incorporated into the MCP.  That is, *if* things like this are 
considered canon.

Another example: in the Cable and the New Mutants TPB, there is 
an added page of fighting between Cable and Wolverine, created 
to make a series of two two-page spreads fall correctly in the 
TPB.  Is this page canon?

The Spider-Man: Revelations TPB boasts entirely new scenes, created 
specifically for the TPB collection, of Ben Reilly's abduction by 
the Green Goblin, his funeral and wake.  Are these canon?  One would 
assume yes, as these new pages seem to fall into the category 
defined by Classic X-Men above.

So what does everybody think?  Are all "added pages" to be 
considered canon?  Or only some of them?  And where should we make 
the distinction?

I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say about this, as well 
as any other examples anyone can produce...

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Harry Osborn
Posted by Paul on November 12, 2000 at 02:22:36:

Harry Osborn apeared in issues 199 and 200 of spectacular spiderman 
pleases post this

			*	*	*

Constrictor/Titania II/Copycat
Posted by The Beetle on November 13, 2000 at 11:26:22:

In DPOOL3 45 it was revealed that the Titania II running around 
in the pages of Deadpool and the roommate of his was actually 
Copycat and not Titania II, that would mean that the following 
appearances in the MCP needs to be changed....

Oh yeah and saw you added the Midnight appearance in MoKF #41, 
thanks.....

CONSTRICTOR/FRANK PAYNE/"FRANK SCHLICTING"
NF3 36-FB
DPOOL3 35-FB
H2 212
CA 228
CA 229
CA 231
IM 126
IM 127
PM&IF 66
H2 265
CA@ 5
PM&IF 78
PM&IF 84
M/TIO 96
CA 281
CA 282
CA 283
CA 309
CA 310
CA 311
FF 334
M/CP 74/3
M/CP 86/3
M/CP 87/3
M/CP 89/2
M/CP 90/2
M/CP 91/2
M/CP 92/2
PPTSS@ 12
WOSM@ 8
NW@ 2
NF3 36
M/FAN2 6
TB 24
TB 25
GAM3 11-FB
GAM3 11
DPOOL3 38
DPOOL3 39 (Deadpool is sent into Space see GAM3 17 for the reason)
DPOOL3 40
DPOOL3 41
GAM3 17 (should be placed sometime before the end of DPOOL #39, where 
Deadpool is sent in space by Taskmaster, since Constrictor is shot by 
Deadpool, on Earth)
Adding:
GAM3 18 (right after #18)
DPOOL3 42
DPOOL3 43
DPOOL3 44
BP3 23
DPOOL3 45

COPYCAT/VANESSA
NM 98
NM 99
NM 100
NM@ 7
NW@ 1
UX@ 15
XF@ 6
XFOR 1
XFOR 2
XFOR 3
S-M 16
XFOR 4
XFOR 5
XFOR 6
XFOR 7
XFOR 9
XFOR 10
XFOR@ 1/3
XFOR 11
XFOR 12
XFOR 13
XFOR 14
XFOR 15
C2 38
C2 39
DPOOL3 38
DPOOL3 39
DPOOL3 40
DPOOL3 41
DPOOL3 42
DPOOL3 43
DPOOL3 44
BP3 23
DPOOL3 45

TITANIA II
M/SHSW 3
M/SHSW 4
M/SHSW 5
M/SHSW 6
M/SHSW 7
M/SHSW 8
M/SHSW 11
M/SHSW 12
SWII 7
A 270
A 273
ASM 283
A 275
IM 228
CA 340
SOLOA 14/2
FF 326
FF 327
FF 328
FF 329
FF 330
FF 331
FF 332
FF 333
WOSM 59
ASPOT 26
WOSM 64
WOSM 65
ASPOT 29/2
CA 389-BTS
CA 390
CA 391
T 436
S-H2 49
T 447
T 448
TS 16
AUP 3-BTS
AUP 4
M/VS 1/4
ASM 429
HFH 17
T2 14-FB
FF3 22
T2 25
(DPOOL3 38
DPOOL3 39
DPOOL3 40
DPOOL3 41)

(All these should be deleted since it's revealed in DPOOL3 45 that 
the Titania running around these pages is actually Copycat)

Instead should these be added
T2 26
T2 27

Kim "The Beetle" Henckel

			*	*	*

Whoooops, small correction....
Posted by The Beetle on November 13, 2000 at 11:29:16:
In Reply to: Constrictor/Titania II/Copycat 
posted by The Beetle on November 13, 2000 at 11:26:22:

: 
: CONSTRICTOR/FRANK PAYNE/"FRANK SCHLICTING"
: NF3 36-FB
....
: DPOOL3 41
: GAM3 17 (should be placed sometime before the end of DPOOL 
#39, where Deadpool is sent in space by Taskmaster, since 
Constrictor is shot by Deadpool, on Earth)
: Adding:
: GAM3 18 (should've said right after #17, sorry)
: DPOOL3 42

			*	*	*

Re: Constrictor/Titania II/Copycat
Posted by Russ Chappell on November 13, 2000 at 19:39:04:
In Reply to: Constrictor/Titania II/Copycat 
posted by The Beetle on November 13, 2000 at 11:26:22:

> In DPOOL3 45 it was revealed that the Titania II running around 
in the pages of Deadpool and the roommate of his was actually 
Copycat and not Titania II, that would mean that the following 
appearances in the MCP needs to be changed....

I'm glad to hear that. I was having real problems with Titania 
appearing in Deadpool.

			*	*	*

Painkiller Jane
Posted by Antonio Gavio on November 13, 2000 at 13:59:15:

I'm not going to start by saying how good I think the MCP is 
because by now everybody knows that, so to my question: I see 
that you have added the book PUNISHER: PAINKILLER JANE with the 
books you didn't buy this week, Painkiller Jane being a character 
from the Event Comics Universe. Does this mean that in the future 
books featuring characters from or crossovers with another company 
that can fit in Marvel Chronology are going to te added to the 
Project?

If so I'm sure Painkiller Jane is not going to have an entry here 
with all her appearances so my suggestion would be to link 
characters from other companies to pages dedicated to their 
chronologies (DCP to name one). If said pages do not exist yet 
they might in the future, and in the meantime it can just be 
explained that chronologies for characters from other companies 
are not going to appear here. 

I'm sure more than one out there would love to see books like 
'Marvel Vs. DC' added to the project.

			*	*	*

Re: Painkiller Jane
Posted by Russ Chappell on November 13, 2000 at 19:35:17:
In Reply to: Painkiller Jane 
posted by Antonio Gavio on November 13, 2000 at 13:59:15:

> I see that you have added the book PUNISHER: PAINKILLER JANE 
with the books you didn't buy this week, Painkiller Jane being 
a character from the Event Comics Universe. Does this mean that 
in the future books featuring characters from or crossovers with 
another company that can fit in Marvel Chronology are going to 
te added to the Project?

Depends. If we determine here that the book is not canon, then 
we won't be adding it. Since I don't have the book, I recuse 
myself.

			*	*	*

Re: Painkiller Jane
Posted by Paul O'Brien on November 14, 2000 at 07:41:05:
In Reply to: Re: Painkiller Jane
posted by Russ Chappell on November 13, 2000 at 19:35:17:

: Depends. If we determine here that the book is not canon, 
then we won't be adding it. Since I don't have the book, 
I recuse myself.

Fun little book - if you like Ennis' Punisher series, I'd 
recommend picking it up.

Anyhow, it's almost certainly not canon.  My rule of thumb 
for these things is that if the story involves travel between 
the two seperate fictional universes (such as Marvel vs DC) then 
it's probably canon.  If it works on the assumption that the 
characters just live in the same universe all along (like this 
one) then it's not.

The issue basically shows Painkiller Jane stumbling upon the 
Punisher, falling in love, and following him around as a stalker 
until he finally gets rid of her.

			*	*	*

Spidey Character appearances
Posted by Pete Galipeau on November 14, 2000 at 10:29:54:

Where do the following characters, which have been made into 
action figures, appear in any Spider-Man books?  Scarecrow, 
Vault Guardsman, Monster Spider, Morbius Unbound, and Anti-Symbiote 
Spider-Man.

			*	*	*

Re: Spidey Character appearances
Posted by Jeph! on November 15, 2000 at 02:00:32:
In Reply to: Spidey Character appearances
posted by Pete Galipeau on November 14, 2000 at 10:29:54:

: Where do the following characters, which have been made into 
action figures, appear in any Spider-Man books?

Suggestion: look them up in the MCP.

:Scarecrow, Vault Guardsman, Monster Spider, Morbius Unbound, 
and Anti-Symbiote Spider-Man.

Scarecrow should be under Scarecrow; Vault Guardsman under 
Guardsman.  Monster Spider doesn't exist, he was made up for
the toy line.  For Morbius Unbound try under, oh, Morbius, 
and Anti-Symbiote Spider-Man is most likely Spider-Man.  He's 
appeared lots of places.  (Never with the weird gear that his 
Anti-Symbiote action figure is toting, though...)

http://www.chronolgyproject.com .  It's what's for dinner.
	-Jeph, crabby tonight it appears

			*	*	*

Comments on old threads (catching up)
Posted by Jeph! on November 15, 2000 at 01:53:32:

Well, I've finally caught up with the backlog of the MCP posts 
(damn you, internet connection!...), and I figured I would post 
my "final answers" to some old, possibly dead threads up here at 
the top, rather than way down the list where nobody will notice 
a new post.

Starting off, it was *not* Primus the android in Thunderbolts #2 
as I indicated earlier, it was in fact the Awesome Android.  
White, headless, silent, and the Mad Thinker even refers to him 
by name -- "go, my Awesome Android" -- and I tend to think that 
Busiek knows what he's talking about in that regard.

Wizard giveaway comics (zeroes and one-halfs): my "research" 
(ie, sitting at home reading comics) indicates that taken as a 
whole (or a subgenre), they should be considered canon.  Footnotes 
in mainstream books have referenced the Gambit and Iron Man 1/2's.  
The Deadpool #0 giveaway cleared up the mystery of how Animus/the 
Vamp was reanimated in the pages of the regular series, and the 
Generation X #1/2 detailed Skin's origin, later alluded to by the 
same writer in the mid-30s of the regular series.  New Warriors #0 
and Avengers #0 were obviously written as intended continuity, 
setting up plot points to be followed in the regular series.  I 
don't know if the MCP board has made a decision on these or not, 
but I believe they should be considered canon one and all.

Gambit cybercomic:  what the hell, include it.  Here, I'll archive 
it for you right now, from memory: it features Gambit, Sekhmet, Spat 
and Grovel.  No other recurring characters.  It takes place directly 
after the business with Fenris in GAM3 #10, as referenced in a 
footnote in the cybercomic.  It was not written by Fabian Nicieza, 
but he had a hand in the plot.  It is not really a status change for 
Spat, more of a status quo enforcement -- in the beginning of the 
cybercomic, Spat's reverse-aging threatened to devolve her to 
infancy until Gambit stabilized her -- trapping her as the teenager 
she always was in the X-comics.  Hope that helps.

Ultraverse: you should know that if you decide to include the 
Ultraverse as canon, you will be faced with a serious continuity 
problem regarding Rogue: in the Marvel X-books, she left the team 
in the two-week gap between X-Men #41 and X-Men Prime, not returning 
until the Onslaught crossover with X-Men #54 or so.  In Wolverine 
#92, taking place after the two-week gap, the Juggernaut is sent by 
LL&L into the Ultraverse.  He returns in X-Men #53.  Therefore the 
Juggernaut is only in the Ultraverse while Rogue is away from the 
team.  Yet in the Phoenix Resurrection crossover, dealing with the 
X-Men and the Exiles (and Juggy!) interacting, there's Rogue, on the 
team like nothing happened.  For this reason and others, I feel that 
the Ultraverse books should not be considered canon unless absolutely 
proven otherwise in the mainstream books.  Too many problems.  (I 
can't even figure out what on earth they did to the Phoenix Force 
either ... I think they stranded it in the Ultraverse ... dear God.)
The Contest of Champions series: move it back.  The Hulk is dumb and 
that's that; the MCP should reflect the writer's intent (that it 
happened before the Hulk was smartened) in all possible cases, and 
there aren't any other continuity problems that moving it back 
creates. (In fact, it untangles snares in other heroes' continuities, 
such as Rom and Captain Britain...)  Forget the "snatching heroes 
from different times" idea -- why would the Grandmaster *do* that?  
He didn't seem to do it with anyone else (except the problem with 
Nighthawk), and he had no motive to do so.  Follow Paul Bourcier's 
plan and move the Contest of Champions series back in the MCP.

And finally, my favorite topic of all, Captain Britain: I realize 
that Russ' policy for the MCP is not to update new books for one 
character (say, CB) without having archived the actual book itself.  
Including info on CB #1 in CB's chronology alone, but not in anybody 
else's, gives the false idea that the book has been archived when in 
fact it has not.  I realize that my contributions to CB's chronology 
have not seen the light of day for this reason.  However, Captain 
Britain v1 #1-39 and v2 #1-14 seem to be listed in CB's chronology, 
as well as a few other British comics that have not been fully 
archived.  This information, being accurate, is probably not going 
anywhere either, so I will volunteer to fully archive these books 
for Russ (as I have been doing, slowly and on my own, for a while 
now).  The one thing I will point out, as I have twice now, is that 
Captain Britain does *not* appear in CB v1 #19.  Not even behind 
the scenes.  Please, oh please, delete this entry from his 
chronology.

Having said all that ... I think I'm done for the night.  I'd really 
like people's opinions on my post about added reprint material, 
though, if anyone has the time to spare...

	-Jeph!
with nothing better to do, apparently

			*	*	*

Captain Britain (1976) #1-10, archived!
Posted by Jeph! on November 17, 2000 at 01:18:31:

I figured it would be more helpful for the MCP if I were to analyze 
Captain Britain's UK books on the same issue-by-issue basis that 
Russ suggests for the books in the second Gap, instead of the 
character-by-character basis I was following.

So here, in some sort of MCP-like format, are chronologies for the 
first 10 issues of the first Captain Britain series from Marvel 
Ltd., UK.

----

Captain Britain #1  Oct. 13, 1976 (7 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain (Brian Braddock)  (first appearance)
The Reaver (Joshua Stragg)  (first appearance)
Dr. Travis, a Darkmoor scientist  (first appearance)
Roma  (first appearance)
Merlin/Merlyn  (last in Strange Tales #134)

Synopsis:  Captain Britain, in the middle of a pitched battle, 
thinks back on the Reaver's ambush at Darkmoor Research Center 
that caused him to flee into the night and run into Merlin and 
Roma, who offered him a choice between a sword or an amulet

Notes:  The story picks up en medea res  the first half is the 
middle of a battle; the second half a prolonged flashback to 
earlier that day.  Merlin, Roma, and Dr. Travis appear only in 
this flashback.  Dr. Travis dies in this flashback, shot in the 
chest  this is likely his only appearance.

Backup stories: (both reprints)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (5 pages)

----

Captain Britain #2  Oct. 20, 1976 (8 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain
The Reaver
Merlin/Merlyn
Roma
(all continuous from last issue)

Synopsis:  Captain Britain remembers how, in the middle of his 
"choice", he was found by the Reaver's men.  He grabbed the amulet, 
and was transformed into Captain Britain  but the Reaver grabbed 
the sword, and was transformed as well.  CB defeated both the 
Reaver and his henchmen, and formally took on the matle of Captain 
Britain.

Notes:  The first half of this story is a flashback, continuing 
the one from last issue, and leading right into the beginning of 
last issue as well.  The sequence of events here is:

CB1-FB / CB2-FB / CB1 / CB2

All characters appear both in the flashback and the straightforward 
part of this issue.

Back-up stories: (both reprints, with new splash pages)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (7 pages)

----

Captain Britain #3  Oct. 27, 1976 (8 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain<br>the Vixen (BTS?) and her men  (first mention of 
the Vixen, see notes)
Chief Inspector Dai Thomas  (last in Marvel Preview #3)
Courtney Ross  (first appearance)
Jacko Tanner  (first appearance)
Sandy York  (first appearance)
Hurricane (I?, see note) (first appearance)

Synopsis:  Captain Britain has a brief battle in a bank against 
goons sent by the Vixen, an underworld chieftan.  He is questioned 
by Dai Thomas.  Later, Brian drops in on the Flying Finish, a pub, 
where he meets up with acquaintances from Thames University, who 
invite him to a movie.  He declines.  (Jacko Tanner is the "Flash 
Thompson" of the group  he gets on Brian's nerves, and vice versa.)  
Meanwhile, the Hurricane reads of CB's exploits in the paper, and 
schemes

Notes:  This is not the same Hurricane as the Dark Rider on the 
MCP, and predates him by almost 20 years.  The one on the MCP 
should probably be re-listed as Hurricane II.

Also, I don't know if a first mention of a character counts, nor 
if the appearance of men acting on her behalf counts as a BTS 
appearance, but this issue marks the introduction of the concept 
of the Vixen, who would go on to appear later.

Back-up stories: (both reprints)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (6 pages)

----

Captain Britain #4  Nov. 3, 1976 (7 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain
Jacko Tanner
Courtney Ross
Sandy York  BTS (see notes)
Hurricane

Synopsis:  Brian exercises his powers in the university gym, and 
is hassled by Jacko Tanner, but Courtney Ross asks him out to 
lunch.  Brian muses about the grim vow he made to his parents.  The 
Hurricane attacks the University, and defeats the Captain.

Notes:  Courtney tells Brian that Sandy York told her where to 
find him.  I believe this constitutes a BTS appearance, since 
this is not a rehash of any of Sandy's actions from the previous 
issue.

Back-up stories: (both reprints, with new splash pages)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (7 pages)

----

Captain Britain #5  Nov. 10, 1976 (7 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain
Dr. Neil MacKenzie, Brian Braddock's tutor  (first appearance)
Courtney Ross
Hurricane
Jacko Tanner
Dai Thomas
Detective Inspector Kate Fraser  (first appearance)
Sandy York

Synopsis:  Captain Britain helps clean up the mess left of Thames 
University by his battle with the Hurricane, and is hassled by Dai 
Thomas.  He then returns to the flat that he rents from Dr. 
MacKenzie, and uses the doctor's lab to create a way to track the 
villain.  Following the trail, Captain Britain bursts in on 
Hurricane in his lair

Back-up stories: (both reprints)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (6 pages)

----

Captain Britian #6  Nov. 17, 1976 (7 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain
Hurricane

Synopsis:  Captain Britain and Hurricane have a fight outside of 
(and through) Heathrow Airport.  CB loses, and awakens to find 
himself strapped inside a jet engine

Back-up stories: (both reprints, with new splash pages)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (7 pages)

----

Captain Britain #7  Nov. 24, 1976 (7 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain
Hurricane (name revealed as Albert Potter)

Synopsis:  Hurricane reveals his origin as meteorologist Albert 
Potter, then attempts to suck Captain Britain into the jet engine 
intake.  But CB frees himself and defeats Hurricane, leaving him 
for airport security.

Notes:  Hurricane's origin is told in a flashback that predates all 
of his earlier appearances.  The narration in Hulk Comic #32 
(second story), a recap of CB's early issues, indicates that 
larger forces were at play during Hurricane's origin; that forces 
of evil were molding him to be sent against CB specifically, but 
there are no new panels in HC #32 that could be noted as a flashback.  
As the text illuminates his origin in a new light, however, I 
propose that the ~ notation be used thusly:  CB 7 [FB] ~ HC 32 [2]

Back-up stories: (both reprints)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Howard the Duck (8 half-sized pages/4 pages, detachable/foldable 
minicomic, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (7 pages)

----

Captain Britain #8  Dec. 1, 1976 (7 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain
the Vixen (BTS?) and her men
Kate Fraser
Betsy Braddock, later known as Psylocke  (first appearance, see 
notes)
Courtney Ross
Jacko Tanner
James "Jamie" Braddock, Jr. (BTS?)  (first mention, see notes)
Dr. Synne  (first appearance)

Synopsis:  Captain Britain and Kate Fraser battle the bank-robbing 
henchmen of the underworld's Vixen, and talk about why Dai Thomas 
hates superheroes so much.  Later, Brian is found by his twin 
sister, Betsy, who tells him that their brother Jamie has been 
in an auto accident.  As they fly home in Betsy's charter plane, 
she is attacked by Dr. Synne's hallucinations, and crashes the 
plane

Notes:  This marks the second issue that the Vixen's henchmen 
have appeared.  The Vixen herself will appear much later, in the 
Daredevils series, and as she is a dominatrix in her rule of the 
gang these men are obviously working under her direct orders, so 
I believe this counts as a behind-the-scenes appearance, just as 
the one in CB #3 was.

(These, by the way, are the only two allusions to the Vixen from 
now until her actual appearance, so it's safe to bend the rules 
and label them as BTS  it's not like there'll be four hundred BTS 
listings before she finally appears, after all)

Also, Jamie Braddock is mentioned as having just suffered a hideous 
car accident in this issue  that's why Betsy is so frantic about 
finding Brian  so I believe, since he is never actually shown 
having the accident elsewhere, that this counts as a BTS 
appearance  and his introduction as a character as well.

Finally, this issue marks Betsy Braddock's TRUE first 
appearance  her first US appearance in New Mutants Annual #2 
follows from her British adventures.

Back-up stories: (both reprints, with new splash pages)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (6 pages)

----

Captain Britain #9  Dec. 8, 1976 (7 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain
Betsy Braddock
Dr. Synne
Jamie Braddock  (first on-panel appearance)
Synopsis:  Captain Britain battles Dr. Synne outside of Braddock 
manor, but is cast into a dreamworld of demons that accuse him of 
being responsible for his parents' deaths.  When he awakens, he is 
Brian Braddock again, and his brother Jamie helps him and Betsy 
back to the mansion.  Jamie tells Brian about Dr. Synne's recent 
reign of psychic terror, as Betsy falls under his mental sway.  She 
sees Jamie and Brian as demons, and rushes at them with an axe

Back-up stories: (both reprints)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (6 pages)

----

Captain Britain #10  Dec. 15, 1976 (7 pages)

Characters:
Captain Britain
Betsy Braddock
Jamie Braddock
Dr. Synne
Dr. Ramsey, of the Mordor Research Centre
Brian changes to Captain Britain to subdue his crazed sister, 
revealing his secret to Jamie.  They two of them take Betsy to 
the Mordor Research Centre for observation, unaware of the fact 
that the doctor there is under the mental control of Dr. Synne.  
As the brothers leave, Drs. Ramsey and Synne discuss the deep, 
intensive brainwashing they have in store for Betsy.

Notes:  This is Claremont's last issue on the book, so  for those 
of you that care  don't expect the brainwashing plotline to be 
picked up on again.

Back-up stories: (both reprints, with new splash pages)
Fantastic Four (10 pages, B&W)
Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD (7 pages)

----

So, tallying up the above on a character-by-character basis, we 
get:

JAMIE BRADDOCK (or, James "Jamie" Braddock Jr.)
(additions to your existing entry; might the above name change 
be considered?  His father  to be archived later  is Sir 
James Braddock also, and this change may help clear up any 
confusion)
*CB 8  BTS
*CB 9
*CB 10
XCAL 21
 and so on

CAPTAIN BRITAIN  Brian Braddock
(additions to your existing entry)
XCAL 36  FB
*CB 1  FB
*CB 2  FB
CB 1
and so on (CB 1-10 are already archived properly).

DR. SYNNE
(NEW ENTRY; archived under "D" as Dr. Synne is his codename, 
not a title)
CB 8
CB 9
CB 10

KATE FRASER
(NEW ENTRY)
CB 5
CB 8

HURRICANE  Albert Potter
(NEW ENTRY; should be listed as Hurricane I; bumping the current 
one to Hurricane II.)
CB 7  FB [~ HC 32/2]
CB 3
CB 4
CB 5
CB 6
CB 7

DR. NEIL MacKENZIE
(NEW ENTRY)
CB 5

MERLIN
(additions to existing entry)
from 
ST 134
*CB 1  FB
*CB 2  FB
*CB 2
XCAL: P
 and so on

PSYLOCKE  Elizabeth "Betsy" Braddock
(additions to your existing entry)
*CB 8
*CB 9
*CB 10
NM@2
 and so on

DR. RAMSEY
(NEW ENTRY)
CB 10

the REAVER  Joshua Stragg
(NEW ENTRY)
CB 1  FB
CB 2  FB
CB 1
CB 2

ROMA
(additions to your existing entry)
*CB 1  FB
*CB 2  FB
*CB 2
CB2 14
 and so on

COURTNEY ROSS
(additions to your existing entry)
*CB 3
*CB 4
*CB 5
*CB 8
SSM&CB 238
 and so on

JACKO TANNER
(NEW ENTRY)
CB 3
CB 4
CB 5
CB 8

DAI THOMAS
(additions to your existing entry)
M/PRV 3
*CB 3
*CB 5
UX 127
 and so on

DR. TRAVIS
(NEW ENTRY)
CB 1 - FB

the VIXEN
(additions to your existing entry)
*CB 3  BTS
*CB 8  BTS
XCAL 21
 and so on

SANDY YORK
(NEW ENTRY)
CB 3
CB 4  BTS
CB 5

----

And that's that.  Expect to see the rest of Captain Britain's 
UK books archived this way, ten issues at a time, every now and 
then.  Comments or suggestions for format changes are more than 
welcome.  I hope the MCP finds this information useful.

	-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Re: Hurricane
Posted by Paul Bourcier on November 25, 2000 at 17:27:29:
In Reply to: Captain Britain (1976) #1-10, archived!
posted by Jeph! on November 17, 2000 at 01:18:31:

: Captain Britain #3  Oct. 27, 1976 (8 pages)

: Characters:
: Captain Britain
: the Vixen (BTS?) and her men  (first mention of the Vixen, see 
notes)
: Chief Inspector Dai Thomas  (last in Marvel Preview #3)
: Courtney Ross  (first appearance)
: Jacko Tanner  (first appearance)
: Sandy York  (first appearance)
: Hurricane (I?, see note) (first appearance)

: Synopsis:  Captain Britain has a brief battle in a bank against 
goons sent by the Vixen, an underworld chieftan.  He is questioned 
by Dai Thomas.  Later, Brian drops in on the Flying Finish, a pub, 
where he meets up with acquaintances from Thames University, who 
invite him to a movie.  He declines.  (Jacko Tanner is the "Flash 
Thompson" of the group  he gets on Brian's nerves, and vice 
versa.)  Meanwhile, the Hurricane reads of CB's exploits in the 
paper, and schemes

: Notes:  This is not the same Hurricane as the Dark Rider on the 
MCP, and predates him by almost 20 years.  The one on the MCP 
should probably be re-listed as Hurricane II.

Actually, this Hurricane might qualify as Hurricane II, with 
Hurricane I having been an identity assumed earlier (in Marvel 
time) by Makkari in Marvel Universe #6.

Thanks for your excellent work, Jeph!

-- Paul

