Generation X #16
Posted by Adam Koeth on February 02, 2001 at 01:12:10:

Okay...this is my first time doing this, so if I'm totally off the 
mark, please feel free to shout me down.

Generation X #16  June 1996
"Out of Sync" by Scott Lobdell and Tom Grummett

Characters appearing:
Banshee
White Queen
Synch
M
Jubilee
Husk
Chamber
Skin
X-Cutioner

These next three don't actually appear in the story, but they do 
affect the story in major ways, so I'm assuming they'd be behind 
the scenes?
Emplate
Onslaught
Gateway

The main story involves the three Gen X girls, Jubilee, M, and Husk, 
fighting their teammate Synch in St. Louis (Ev's home town).  Synch, 
under the influence of Emplate, returned to St. Louis, possibly to 
feed on the genetic material of his family.  While four young 
mutants fight each other, and Synch fights against Emplate's 
influence, Banshee and the White Queen wait from afar, mainly 
because Synch would be able to add their powers to his arsenal if 
they got too close to the battle.  Back at the Academy, Skin plans 
to take Chamber to see Charles Xavier, as Chamber's powers had been 
in flux ever since Gateway whisked the young Brit away for a 
meeting with Onslaught (in X-Men #49, which is foot-noted this 
ish).  Synch is finally defeated when he tries to copy M's 
assortment of powers, and is brought by his teammates to where 
Banshee and the White Queen had been waiting.  Skin and Chamber 
start out on their trek to Westchester, but are driven off the 
road by the X-Cutioner.

Chamber's Chronology: defeats Omega Red in GENX 11, is abducted 
by Gateway in X 49, returns to battle Emplate in GENX 12-14, 
begins to feel ill in GENX 15 thanks to his visit with Onslaught, 
then agrees to go with Skin to see Xavier in GENX 16.  M and 
Banshee are also present in X 49 when Chamber is abducted by 
Gateway.

			*	*	*

Re: Generation X #16
Posted by Adam Koeth on February 02, 2001 at 01:48:17:
In Reply to: Generation X #16
posted by Adam Koeth on February 02, 2001 at 01:12:10:

Some additions here-

Giovanni (unrevealed last name)- the custodian at Synch's former 
high school

Chevy (unrevealed last name)- quickly hired as the school's 
handyman by Skin

			*	*	*

Generation X #19
Posted by Adam Koeth on February 02, 2001 at 12:32:16:

Here goes...

Generation X #19  September 1996
"Don't Wait Up"  by Scott Lobdell and Chris Bachalo

Characters appearing:
White Queen
Jubilee
M
Synch
Husk
Toad
Banshee
Sasquatch
The Surgeon
Skin
Chamber
The White Queen's drivers/servants (I'm not sure what their names 
are, but they look like grown-up versions of Artie and Leech)

After the events of last issue, the White Queen, M, Jubilee, Synch, 
and Husk are squirreled away at one of Emma's safe-houses in Canada 
which, incidentally, was where the Toad was allowed to stay by Emma 
herself.  He causes some problems later on for the Gen Xers, with 
his carniverous frogs and his companion, the Surgeon.  While Emma 
and the kids are in Canada, Banshee goes to Department H and enlists 
the help of Sasquatch in finding the kids.  They arrive at the White 
Queen's house shortly after Emma was snapped out of her Onslaught-
induced haze by a psionic avatar of M.  Banshee explains that 
Onslaught has revealed himself in the United States, and Emma was 
caught in the psionic backlash...thus, her overwhelming desire to 
keep her latest batch of students safe turned into an obsession 
when Onslaught revealed himself.  The ish ends with hugs all around 
and a temporary truce between Jubilee and M sealed with a 
handshake.

Chronology:  This issue, as well as GENX 18, can probably take place 
anytime during the Onslaught debacle (as the kids weren't involved 
in the fight with Onslaught in New York), but more than likely 
shortly after Onslaught revealed himself to the X-Men in X 54.

Chamber and Skin appear on the first page only, in an introduction 
to the story.  The Surgeon is a new character to me, and he seems 
to disappear by the end of the issue. 

Sasquatch's appearance comes in after AF was cancelled, and before 
his appearance in DPOOL3 1.  I don't know if he made any appearances 
in-between.  

			*	*	*

Guardians of the Galaxy
Posted by ClockWise on February 02, 2001 at 12:38:25:

I know I shouldn't be asking this, but I just bought a pile of 
"Guardians of the Galaxy" issues on the cheap.

Here goes...

In  Marvel 2 in 1 #69, the GOG timeline splits from the Marvel 
timeline.  In some of the issues I have, 27-39 and a few indivdual 
books, the GOG travel back to the 20th century (from the 31st 
century).  

I am assuming the 20th century they hit is the REAL marvel 
timeline.

That's what I understand.  Am I right?

Would this not warrent some appearances in the chronology?  
Especially some important Yellowjacket II stuff.  

What about when REAL marvel characters enter the FAKE maarvel 
timeline?

Augh.

			*	*	*

Re: Guardians of the Galaxy
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 02, 2001 at 18:39:56:
In Reply to: Guardians of the Galaxy
posted by ClockWise on February 02, 2001 at 12:38:25:

StAkAr must be out of town...

> In  Marvel 2 in 1 #69, the GOG timeline splits from the Marvel 
timeline.  In some of the issues I have, 27-39 and a few indivdual 
books, the GOG travel back to the 20th century (from the 31st 
century).  

> I am assuming the 20th century they hit is the REAL marvel 
timeline.

> That's what I understand.  Am I right?

Yes sir.

> Would this not warrent some appearances in the chronology?  
Especially some important Yellowjacket II stuff.  

Yes it would, and GOTG is on the schedule to be added.

> What about when REAL marvel characters enter the FAKE marvel 
timeline?

Those will be included too.

			*	*	*

Re: Guardians of the Galaxy
Posted by ClockWise on February 02, 2001 at 18:50:10:
In Reply to: Re: Guardians of the Galaxy
posted by Russ Chappell on February 02, 2001 at 18:39:56:

Nice, Nice, Very Nice.

If you are missing any of the issues - and I have them - I can 
give you rundowns of appearances.

They aren't half bad either.  I am almost tempted to hunt down 
the issues I don't have.

			*	*	*

Re: Guardians of the Galaxy
Posted by StAkAr Karnak on February 04, 2001 at 13:01:14:
In Reply to: Re: Guardians of the Galaxy
posted by ClockWise on February 02, 2001 at 18:50:10:

In our last exciting episode, Russ Chappell wrote:

: StAkAr must be out of town...

Only mentally, sadly.  Just trying to keep all the balls in the air 
at once.  There's a bunch of stuff I have lined up for the Project, 
but I don't want to say too much until I have it to deliver.

Back to ClockWise:

:I know I shouldn't be asking this, but I just bought a pile of 
"Guardians of the Galaxy" issues on the cheap.

Hope you got the Valentinos.  It's mostly downhill after that.

: In Marvel 2 in 1 #69, the GOG timeline splits from the Marvel 
timeline.

Close, but no Ultimate Nullifier.  The Guardians' timeline is 
the original.  M/TIO 69 showed how the "Mainstream" branched 
off of it.

: In some of the issues I have, 27-39 and a few indivdual books, 
the GOG travel back to the 20th century (from the 31st century).  
I am assuming the 20th century they hit is the REAL marvel 
timeline.

Your terminology is off, but you've the right idea.  Why they kept 
coming back to the Mainstream, I have no clue, storywise.

: Would this not warrent some appearances in the chronology?  
Especially some important Yellowjacket II stuff.  What about 
when REAL marvel characters enter the FAKE marvel timeline?

Yup.  It's just a matter of time.

: If you are missing any of the issues - and I have them - I can 
give you rundowns of appearances.

If and when Russ (the Webmaster) puts out a call for help, opinions 
are always welcome.

: They aren't half bad either.  I am almost tempted to hunt down 
the issues I don't have.

#1-26 and the first annual are pretty solid, but their best stuff 
was, IMO, in Marvel Presents #3-12.

: This GOTG Page is Pretty Decent

Well... Opal Dragon's heart is in the right place, but he has a 
general lack of references.  I have a Guardians site at
"http://www.geocities.com/glakandar/gotw/main.htm" that I'm 
slooowly making progress with.  As a bonus for visiting the MCP, 
here's a sneak peak at one of the character bio's at
"http://www.geocities.com/glakandar/gotw/nikki.htm" I've been 
working on.  Opinions welcome via email.

- StAkAr Karnak

			*	*	*

Re: Guardians of the Galaxy
Posted by ClockWise on February 07, 2001 at 21:14:39:
In Reply to: Re: Guardians of the Galaxy
posted by StAkAr Karnak on February 04, 2001 at 13:01:14:

: Hope you got the Valentinos.  It's mostly downhill after that.

I have the end of the Valentinos.  Most are with the people who 
suceeded him.  They are nice.  I couldn't wrap my head around the 
constant jumps in plot.  However, once you understand that they 
ARE huge jumps in plot development, you come to accept them.  It 
accomplishes an "epic" feeling.  Sorta.

The constant barrage of surviving Marvel characters... Drs. 
Strange and Doom to name a couple kinda through me off.  The 
quick death of a thousand plus year old Strange was in poor 
taste.

Still, pretty enjoyable books.

: Close, but no Ultimate Nullifier.  The Guardians' timeline is 
the original.  M/TIO 69 showed how the "Mainstream" branched off 
of it.

Oh... so this chronology project is really catagorizing the wrong 
time.  Maybe someone should look into that. ;)

: Your terminology is off, but you've the right idea.  Why they 
kept coming back to the Mainstream, I have no clue, storywise.

If they wanted to avert a badoon attack, wouldn't it be in their 
best interest to go back to their own time?

The page I referenced was pretty weak on the issue descriptions, 
but the appearances index was quite helpful.

I'm headed to your page right now...

			*	*	*

Hercules and the Heart of Chaos #1-3
Posted by Prime Eternal on February 02, 2001 at 19:07:15:

As I promised Russ, here's my analysis of this 1997 mini-series. 
If anyone catches something I missed, let me know.

This series picks up following Heroes For Hire#3, where Hercules 
quit the Heroes For Hire team.

Hercules and the Heart of Chaos#1 (August 1997)

Plot: SHIELD asks Hercules to join them, but he refuses, until his 
friend Tharamus is killed by Ares.

Characters:
Hercules
Alex DePaul (Special Agent DePaul from Thunderstrike)
Tharamus (minor Greek god, dies)
Ares
Kara Lynn Palamas (SHIELD agent)
John Farret (SHIELD agent)

Flashback:
Opens with a flashback that features Ares, Hercules, and Zeus. It 
occurs sometime after Hercules had become an immortal.

Hercules and the Heart of Chaos#2 (September 1997)

Plot: Hercules receives SHIELD training, and leads a SHIELD squad 
in a futile attack on Ares' Warhawks, while Ares takes over the 
Helicarrier.

Characters:
Hercules
John Farret
Roger "Buddy" Juniper (SHIELD agent, relative of Jonathan "Junior" 
Juniper. dies)
Ares
Kara Lynn Palamas
Alex DePaul
Minotaur (Olympian monster- new character)

Flashbacks:

Flashback to Tharamas & Ares' battle from #1. Fits between panels 
of #1.

Flashback to Hercules' days with the Argonauts, depicting him and 
Jason taking the Golden Fleece.

Hercules and the Heart of Chaos#3 (October, 1997)

Plot: Hercules defeats Ares, while Palamas finds out which SHIELD 
agent betrayed them.

Characters:
Hercules
Alex DePaul (revealed as traitor, dies)
Ares (seemingly killed by Hercules, using the Heart of Chaos)
Kara Lynn Palamas
John Farret

			*	*	*

Error in the Chronology Project
Posted by Mitchel on February 04, 2001 at 16:00:43:

Various entries: Wonder Man, Beast, Thor, Vision, Scarlet Witch 
list M/SS #1 as part of their chronology but wasn't Marvel Super 
Special #1 an issue dedicated to the rock group KISS??!!

			*	*	*

Re: Error in the Chronology Project
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 04, 2001 at 17:40:44:
In Reply to: Error in the Chronology Project
posted by Mitchel on February 04, 2001 at 16:00:43:

Errr...Yes, it was. What's your point?

			*	*	*

Re: Error in the Chronology Project
Posted by Jeph! on February 04, 2001 at 22:34:19:
In Reply to: Re: Error in the Chronology Project
posted by Russ Chappell on February 04, 2001 at 17:40:44:

Was this the magazine also known as "KISSnation"?  Or was that 
a *separate* KISS-related comic that also starred many Marvel 
characters?...

	-Jeph!
saw it once for $15, long ago...

			*	*	*

Re: Error in the Chronology Project
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 04, 2001 at 22:45:53:
In Reply to: Re: Error in the Chronology Project
posted by Jeph! on February 04, 2001 at 22:34:19:

> Was this the magazine also known as "KISSnation"?  Or was that a 
*separate* KISS-related comic that also starred many Marvel 
characters?...

KISSnation doesn't ring a bell. The Super Special was a color 
comic magazine. Kiss was a superhero musical group set in the 
Marvel Universe.

Someone told me once that KISS was based on a real group, but 
they were obviously pulling my leg.

			*	*	*

No they're not..!!
Posted by PaxHouse on February 05, 2001 at 12:40:38:
In Reply to: Re: Error in the Chronology Project
posted by Russ Chappell on February 04, 2001 at 22:45:53:

...In fact, Marvel originally had those Giant-Sized Comic 
Magazines format in the mid to latter 70's where certain 
Marvel stories and Holiday Specials were printed and reprinted 
there; and among those was a KISS special, where the rock group 
suddenly received superpowers, in order to help save the world.  
( I can't recall who the villian they were fighting against..!!)

PaxHouse.  

			*	*	*

KISS me twice?
Posted by Jeph! on February 06, 2001 at 13:48:15:
In Reply to: No they're not..!!
posted by PaxHouse on February 05, 2001 at 12:40:38:

: ...In fact, Marvel originally had those Giant-Sized Comic Magazines 
format in the mid to latter 70's where certain Marvel stories and 
Holiday Specials were printed and reprinted there; and among those 
was a KISS special, where the rock group suddenly received 
superpowers, in order to help save the world.  ( I can't recall who 
the villian they were fighting against..!!)

I hate run-on sentences ... are you talking about the same story 
everyone else is talking about?

What you're saying (you and Russ both), is that Marvel Super 
Special #1 was a 1970s story, featuring KISS getting super 
powers?

Well, there's another one of those: called KISSnation, it's the 
same plot (KISS gets powers, teams up with Marvel heroes), but it 
was made and published in the early 90s.  True to 90s Marvel, KISS 
teams up with the "kewl" X-Men, including Wolverine and Psylocke.

Can someone give me some publishing information on this Marvel 
Super Special #1 -- publishing date, format (magazine-sized?), 
maybe what the cover looks like ... I'd appreciate it.  Thanks.

	-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Re: KISS me twice?
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 06, 2001 at 17:59:22:
In Reply to: KISS me twice?
posted by Jeph! on February 06, 2001 at 13:48:15:

> What you're saying (you and Russ both), is that Marvel Super 
Special #1 was a 1970s story, featuring KISS getting super powers?

No. I stopped short of saying they had super powers. I don't 
remember super powers, one way or the other. I only said they 
were superheroes, the same way that I consider Black Widow a 
superhero.

> Well, there's another one of those: called KISSnation, it's 
the same plot (KISS gets powers, teams up with Marvel heroes), 
but it was made and published in the early 90s.  True to 90s 
Marvel, KISS teams up with the "kewl" X-Men, including Wolverine 
and Psylocke.

> Can someone give me some publishing information on this Marvel 
Super Special #1 -- publishing date, format (magazine-sized?), 
maybe what the cover looks like ... I'd appreciate it.  Thanks.

I'm completely unfamiliar with "KISSnation". The Marvel Super 
Specials were not "Giant-Size Comic Magazine format." They were 
newstand-size magazines, same as the black and white magazines 
that Marvel published in the early to mid seventies. Perhaps 
PaxHouse is thinking of the Marvel Treasury Editions, again 
unrelated to the Super Specials, of which Kiss was one.

Most of the Super Specials were movie adaptations. I remember 
Jaws 2, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Xanadu, and Battlestar 
Galactica (the last of which coincidentally also received the 
Treasury Edition treatment).

According to my Overstreet Price Guide, Marvel Super Special #1, 
featuring Kiss, was published in 1977.

Does that help?

			*	*	*

Re: KISS me twice?
Posted by edwin on February 06, 2001 at 18:14:33:
In Reply to: Re: KISS me twice?
posted by Russ Chappell on February 06, 2001 at 17:59:22:

I remember this first KISS special as having the dubious distinction 
of apparently being partly printed in "real KISS blood" (they 
apparently poured a few syringes of blood into the ink vats...
unbelievable what they used to do for gimmicks before offering 
collectors' cards).

Anyways, it was in color, magazine-sized, and the KISS characters 
did have super-powers (Ace could teleport, Starchild could trigger 
a wave of overwhelming emotion, Gene Simmons breathed fire and I 
think the other one had cat-like agility.) Powers were obtained 
through a box of talismans. I believe they fought Mephisto, but 
I'm not sure. Cover showed the four KISS characters on a red 
background. Hope this helps.

			*	*	*

No one remembers the elf? was Re: KISS me twice?
Posted by Jeanne Burch on March 22, 2001 at 08:06:57:
In Reply to: Re: KISS me twice?
posted by edwin on February 06, 2001 at 18:14:33:

: Anyways, it was in color, magazine-sized, and the KISS characters 
did have super-powers (Ace could teleport, Starchild could trigger 
a wave of overwhelming emotion, Gene Simmons breathed fire and I 
think the other one had cat-like agility.) 

Sorry to jump in late...

"Starchild's" blast was delivered through the star-like tatoo around 
his eye, as I recall.

But the second of the KISS magazines was most notable, as far as 
I'm concerned, because of the appearance of...The Elf With The Gun! 
He had a brief, nasty conversation with the group before announcing 
he wasn't in the mood for murder and offering some information to 
send them on their way. One of the group muttered as he stalked 
off, "Nice guy. I hope he gets hit by a truck."

(This only has meaning for us Elf With A Gun fans, I know...)

			*	*	*

Re: Error in the Chronology Project
Posted by Mitchel on February 10, 2001 at 16:52:59:
In Reply to: Re: Error in the Chronology Project
posted by Russ Chappell on February 04, 2001 at 17:40:44:

: : Various entries: Wonder Man, Beast, Thor, Vision, Scarlet Witch 
list M/SS #1 as part of their chronology but wasn't Marvel Super 
Special #1 an issue dedicated to the rock group KISS??!!

: Errr...Yes, it was. What's your point?

My point is that I thougth it was just a story totally outside of 
the Marvel Universe so those Avengers couldn't have been part of 
the comic. But from the other posts here it looks this story 
happened in the Marvel Universe and the Avengers were part of 
it. Does anybody knows who did the artwork? Was Mephisto the one 
they fought?

			*	*	*

Re: Error in the Chronology Project
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 10, 2001 at 23:21:52:
In Reply to: Re: Error in the Chronology Project
posted by Mitchel on February 10, 2001 at 16:52:59:

Yeah, I know that was your point, Mitchell--I was just funnin' ya. 
It was Mephisto, and for some reason, I want to say John Buscema 
did the honors, but don't hold me to it.

			*	*	*

New Mutants
Posted by Frans on February 05, 2001 at 16:50:02:

In the chronology of Moonstar and Wolfsbane and probably also a lot 
of other New Mutants, between Marvel Team Up Annual 6 and Firestar 1, 
there is mentioned SEX1, which stands for Special Edition X-men 1. 
Can anyone tell me something more about this particular issue, 
because I have really no idea where to look for it.

			*	*	*

Re: New Mutants
Posted by Russ Chappell</a> on February 05, 2001 at 19:22:36:
In Reply to: New Mutants
posted by Frans on February 05, 2001 at 16:50:02:

I can't tell you where to look for it, but the bulk of the book 
was a reprint of Giant-Size X-Men #1, if memory serves. The new 
material was a surprise party for Illyana.

			*	*	*

Elektra Lives Again
Posted by Andy Holcombe on February 05, 2001 at 22:36:49:

Is the Elektra Lives Again Graphic Novel considered to be canon?  
The end of the book hints that Elektra somehow survived and possibly 
re-joined the Chaste on top of their mountain.  How was Bullseye 
resurrected though?  I suppose that if the Hand could do it once, 
they, or some other entity, could do it a second time.

			*	*	*

Re: Elektra Lives Again
Posted by TK-421 on February 28, 2001 at 07:57:15:
In Reply to: Elektra Lives Again
posted by Andy Holcombe on February 05, 2001 at 22:36:49:

According to Miller, the events depicted in Elektra Lives Again 
were all supposed to be a fever dream of Matt Murdock (apart from 
the first few pages which feature him talking to a priest about 
his recent dreams).  As far as Miller was concerned, Elektra was 
dead

			*	*	*

Generation X #s 20 & 21
Posted by Adam Koeth on February 06, 2001 at 12:30:22:

GENX 20 "Bodies In Motion"
by Scott Lobdell and Chris Bachalo    October 1996

Characters appearing:
Daria
Bastion
Emplate
Chamber
Artie 
Leech
White Queen
Banshee
Husk
Mondo
Penance
M
Chevy
Skin
Richards, Franklin
Richards, Nathan
Howard the Duck

Bastion, with the help of his assistant Daria, begins to snoop 
around Generation X, until a connection is drawn between Chamber's 
arrival at the airport in GENX 1 and Frost Enterprises (Frost 
Enterprises bought his ticket).  The Gen Xers are having a barbeque 
in the biosphere; Emma is startled by a talking salad, Banshee 
talks with Husk, and Penance's skin is softening.  They handyman, 
Chevy, converses with a mysterious stranger in Boston.  Meanwhile, 
Skin and Chamber are trying to hitch a ride on an unnamed highway 
(Chamber apparently got better after Onslaught was defeated), and 
are picked up by Howard the Duck.  Nathan Richards drops Franklin 
off after he lost his parents to Onslaught; running off with Artie 
and Leech, Franklin discovers a mysterious person begging for 
help...

*The story occurs after Onslaugh: Marvel Universe
*Flashback?  Daria and Bastion recount Generation X's first battle 
against Emplate at Logan International Airport, where Chamber had 
flown in; while they're talking, pictures of the Gen Xers and Emplate 
show up on video monitors.

*Chevy mentions killing the mutant Dennis Hogan in X:PRIME
*Emma mentions taking her students to Canada in an effort to protect 
them from Onslaught, which happened in GEN X 18 & 19
*Bastion's chronology: UX 337, GENX 20, X 57

GEN X 21  "To Live and Die and Molt in LA"
By Scott Lobdell and Chris Bachalo    November 1996

Characters appearing:
Beast
Jubilee
M
Synch
Husk
Mondo
Penanace
Howard the Duck
Chamber
Skin
Tores
White Queen
Banshee
Leech

The Beast gives the kids a midterm exam in xenobiology, only 
to have M experience another zoning-out spell.  On the other 
side of the continent, Howard the Duck and Chamber distract 
Tores' lackies while Skin slips away to the cemetery where 
he's 'buried'.  In disguise, he briefly talks with his grieving 
mother, than witnesses Tores herself throwing a boquet of flowers 
on his grave.  Back in Massachussetts, the Beast explains to 
Banshee and Emma that he's seen M's symptoms before: she's 
autistic.  

*Beast's chronology: X57, GENX 21, X59
*While administering the exam, Beast contemplates whether or not 
he, Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, and Jean were ever "this young...this 
green", in reference to the original graduating class of Xavier's.  

			*	*	*

A 299
Posted by Frans on February 06, 2001 at 16:18:33:

What does A 299 stand for? It appears in the chronology of 
Wolfsbane and Magik (Ilyana Rasputin). It is not explained in 
the key.

			*	*	*

Re: A 299
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 06, 2001 at 18:10:11:
In Reply to: A 299
posted by Frans on February 06, 2001 at 16:18:33:

I think it's covered in the key, but it can't hurt to give an 
example every now and then, so...

The single letter "A" is our code for "Avengers", and the number 
after it is the issue number, so from that:
Wolfsbane and Magik appear in Avengers #299.

			*	*	*

Shaper of Worlds appearance
Posted by Katar on February 07, 2001 at 08:38:13:

Do you count the Batman/Hulk crossover novel as canon?  If so 
Shaper of worlds makes an appearance there.  Chronologically it 
occurs between Hulk2 #267 and Captain America Annual #7.  The 
Abomination and the Rhino make appearances there as well but 
they are only illusions caused by the Shaper's powers so I don't 
think they would count.  From reading it, I get the impression 
that it is an alternate reality, since both Marvel and DC seem 
to time-share the same reality in this story.  (Example: Bruce 
Wayne has heard of the Hulk prior to meeting him and vice-versa.) 

			*	*	*

Re: Shaper of Worlds appearance
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 07, 2001 at 22:37:36:
In Reply to: Shaper of Worlds appearance
posted by Katar on February 07, 2001 at 08:38:13:

: Do you count the Batman/Hulk crossover novel as canon?  

We don't.

			*	*	*

X-Men: Black Sun #1
Posted by Jeph! on February 10, 2001 at 14:23:30:

Since Russ has been asking for this for a while, here's a quick 
summary of X-Men: Black Sun #1 (sorry, but I don't have issues 4 
or 5).

X-Men: Black Sun #1 of 5: the New X-Men
(Indicia lists it as "Black Sun: X-Men"  the entire series is 
never credited as "X-MEN Black Sun" in any issue's indicia, 
merely "Black Sun".)

First Spell: Skin the Cat! by Chris Claremont and Thomas Derenick

Characters appearing:
Shadowcat
Belasco
Sunfire
Colossus
Nightcrawler
Storm
Banshee
Magik II (Jimaine "Amanda Sefton"/"Daytripper" Szardos; first 
appearance as Magik II)

(5 random X-Men frolicking in the pool  3 def. males, 1 def. 
female  looks like Gambit, Rogue, and Colossus, among others, 
but no definites  and unless XBS 4 or 5 make it clear who was 
at the mansion that day, we may never ID them at all.)

Synopsis:  Kitty Pryde, after a workout in the Danger Room, 
receives a package in the mail that transports her to Limbo 
while she sleeps.  Awakening in a replica of the X-Mansion, 
she is attacked by N'Garai, and leaves the "mansion" to find 
the Earth ovverrun and her fellow X-men fighting a losing 
battle.  They retreat to the Danger Room and begin a black 
magic spell that will close the N'Garai cairns to earth.  
Shadowcat realizes too late that it is all an illusion, and 
the spell's true purpose is to switch five N'Garai souls with 
those of five of the X-Men.  Belasco, claiming to now work 
for new masters, appears and rips out Shadowcat's soul, forging 
it into a bloodstone, but a mysterious woman claiming to be 
Magik suddenly pops up and drives him away.  Shadowcat  
somehow able to move without her soul  and Magik then are 
attacked by a N'Garai

Notes:
Due to the concurrent appearance of Shadowcat and Colossus, 
this story must take place in the "six-month gap" between UX 380 
and X 100.  Based solely on Archangel's costume change (in XBS 2 
he wears his current outfit), I think the Black Sun series should 
take place after the "Assassination Game" of GAM3 17-19 and @'00, 
which also takes place in the Gap, but has Archangel wearing his 
old outfit.  Unfortunately, GAM3 12-16 take place over the first 
five months of the Gap, so going by that logic XBS needs to be 
squeezed into the last month of the Gap (which is to say, JUST 
prior to X 100).

Another reason for placing the XBS series very near To X 100 can 
be found in XU 27, where Thunderbird joins the X-Men (meaning it 
must take place before XBS, where he is already a member).  In XU 
27, Colossus speaks of leaving the X-Men's company "soon" to join 
the construction crew of X-Men working on the space station that 
was finished in X 100.  That leaves only a small window between 
XU 27 and X 100, and by Thunderbird's presence ensures that XBS 
must fit into it.

Chronology, then:

SHADOWCAT appeared last in GAM3@'00, and next in XBS 2.
BELASCO appeared last in XU 19, and next in XBS 2.
SUNFIRE appeared last in UX 379, and next in XBS 3.
COLOSSUS appeared last in XU 27, and next in XBS 4.
NIGHTCRAWLER appeared last in GAM3@'00, and next in XBS 4.
STORM appeared last in UXM 380, and next in XBS 2.
BANSHEE appeared last in GENX 70, and next in XBS 3.
MAGIK II appeared last (as Amanda Sefton) in XU 19, and next in XBS 2.

That oughtta do it.  Hope it helped  enjoy!
	-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Re: X-Men: Black Sun #1
Posted by Jeph! on February 10, 2001 at 19:59:46:
In Reply to: X-Men: Black Sun #1
posted by Jeph! on February 10, 2001 at 14:23:30:

Oops.  One error ...

: MAGIK II appeared last (as Amanda Sefton) in XU 19, and next 
in XBS 2.

Wrongo.  She appeared last in XCAL 125, at Captain Britain's 
wedding.  Dammit, I should have *known* that...

	-Jeph!
shamefaced at his un-geek-li-ness

			*	*	*

The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
Posted by SKleefeld on February 10, 2001 at 16:31:56:

OK, the Sentry flashback/flashforward thing was killing me and I 
had to figure this thing out for myself. So I Xeroxed every page 
of every Sentry book and fiddled around with them until the order 
made sense. Here goes...

Sentry 1 pg 5 panels 1-2
	Sentry
Sentry 1 pg 6 panels 1-2, panels 5-6; pg 7 panel 1
	Sentry
	"Buzz"
	Lindy (no maiden name given)
Sentry/Hulk pg 5 panel 1
	Bruce Banner (explosion of gamma bomb)
Sentry 1 pg 8, panels 3-4
	Sentry
	Watchdog
	Blue Buffoon (BTS)
Sentry/Hulk pg 4
	Hulk
Sentry/Hulk pg 5 panel 2 - pg 21
	Sentry
	Hulk
	Human Torch II
	Void 
Sentry/X-Men pg 4 - 5
	Angel
Sentry 1 pg 9 panels 2-5
	Sentry
	Void
	Iron Man (in orignal "Golden Bucket" armor, so must occur 
prior to Avengers #3)
	Giant-Man
	Wasp
	Captain America
	Thor
Sentry/FF pg 3 last panel - pg 6; pg 8 - pg 13; pg 15 - pg 16
	Sentry
	Human Torch II
	Thing
	Mr. Fantastic
	Invisible Girl (shown using force fields, so must occur 
after FF #23)
	Cloc
Sentry/FF pg 17 panel 2 - pg 18 panel 3
	Sentry
	Invisible Girl
	Thing
	Mr. Fantastic
	Human Torch II
Sentry/FF pg 3 panel 8; pg 3 panel 11; pg 19; pg 3 panel 14
        Sentry
	Cloc
	Mr. Fantastic 
	Invisible Girl
	Human Torch II
	Thing
Sentry/FF pg 20 panels 1-2; pg 3 panel 13; pg 20 panels 3-4
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
	Cloc
	Invisible Girl
Sentry/FF pg 21
	Thing
	Mr. Fantastic
	Invisible Girl
	Human Torch II
	Sentry
	Lindy
	Watchdog
Sentry/X-Men pg 6 - pg 8, pg 10 - pg 12, pg 14 - pg 22
	Sentry
	Angel
	Cyclops
	Beast
	Iceman
	The General
	Marvel Girl
	Professor X
Sentry/Void pg 22 panel 7
	Sentry
	Scout/Billy Turner
Sentry 2 pg 4 panel 5
	Sentry
	Void
Sentry 5 pg 7 panel 3
	Sentry
	Scout
Sentry 4 pg 19 panel 1
	Sentry
	Scout
Sentry 4 pg 19 panels 2 - 5 ~ Sentry 2 pg 5 panels 1 - 4
	Sentry
	Scout
	Void
Sentry 1 pg 11; pg 12 panels 2-3
	Sentry
	"The Professor"
Sentry 2 pg 11 panel 3 - pg 12
	Sentry
	Lindy
Sentry/FF pg 3 panel 7
	Sentry
	Lindy Reynolds
	Mr. Fantastic
Sentry 2 pg 14 - pg 16
	Mr. Fantastic
	Thing
	Sentry
	Lindy Reynolds
	Captain America
	Tony Stark
	Vision
	Invisible Girl
	Hawkeye
Sentry/Spider-Man pg 4 - pg 13 panel 2
	Sentry (without a facemask, so must occur after his wedding)
	Spider-Man
	Void
	Dr. Octopus
	Flash Thompson
	May Parker
	Kingpin
Sentry 3 pg 18 panel 4 ~ Sentry/Spider-Man pg 13 panels 3 - 4
	Sentry
	Spider-Man
	Void
Sentry/Spider-Man pg 13 panel 5 - pg 15
	Sentry
	Spider-Man
	Kingpin
	Void
Sentry/Spider-Man pg 17 - pg 19 panel 3
	Sentry
	Spider-Man
Sentry/Spider-Man pg 17 panel 4 ~ 
Sentry/Spider-Man pg 3 panel 5 ~ 
Sentry 4 pg 12 panel 4 ~ 
Sentry 3 pg 17 panel 5
	Spider-Man
Sentry/Spider-Man pg 20 - pg 21 panel 2
	Spider-Man
	J. J. Jameson
Sentry 4 pg 16 panel 2 - pg 17 panel 3
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
	Captain America
	Thor
	Dr. Strange
	Iron Man
	Giant-Man
	Wasp
Sentry 4 pg 17 panels 4 - 6 ~ 
Sentry/Void pg 9 panels 4 - 6
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
	Iron Man
	Thor
	Captain America
	Dr. Strange
	Giant-Man
	Wasp
Sentry/Void pg 10 - pg 11 panel 3
	Mr. Fantastic
	Sentry
Sentry 2 pg 22 (when video was taped)
	Mr. Fantastic
Sentry 3 pg 4 panels 1 - 2, 4 -5 (when video was taped)
	Mr. Fantastic
Sentry/Void pg 14 panels 1 - 3
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
Sentry 4 pg 2 panel 2
	Mr. Fantastic
	Dr. Strange
Sentry/Void pg 14 panels 4 - 6 ~ 
Sentry 4 pg 2 panels 3 - 5
	Thing
	Invisible Girl
	Mr. Fantastic
	Dr. Strange
	Sentry
Sentry/Void pg 15 panels 1 - 5
	Invisible Girl
	Mr. Fantastic
	Sentry
	Dr. Strange
	Cloc
Sentry 5 pg 5 panels 1 - 3, 5 - 6
	Sentry
	Lindy Reynolds
	Mr. Fantastic
Sentry 5 pg 6 panels 1 - 2
	Dr. Strange
	Captain America
	Mr. Fantastic
Sentry 4 pg 15 panel 1
	Sentry
Sentry 5 pg 15 panel 2 ~ 
Sentry/Void pg 7 panel 1
	Mr. Fantastic
	Thing
	Human Torch II
	Invisible Woman (clearly shown in the black/white uniform, 
so must occur after Sentry's original death where she was wearing 
the blue/black uniform)
Sentry/Void pg 7 panel 2
	no character apperances
Sentry/Void pg 7 panels 3 - 4 ~ 
Sentry 5 pg 15 panels 3 - 4
	Invisible Woman
	Sentry
Sentry/Spider-Man pg 21 panels 3 - 4
	Spider-Man
	Hulk
Sentry 1 pg 1 - pg 4; pg 5 panel 3 - 5; pg 6 panels 3 - 4, 7
	Sentry
	Lindy Reynolds
	Watchdog
Sentry 1 pg 7 panel 2 - pg 8 panel 1; pg 8 panel 5; pg 9 panels 1, 6
	Sentry
Sentry 1 pg 10; pg 12 panels 1, 4; pg 13 - 21
	Sentry
	Lindy Reynolds
	Watchdog
	Void
Sentry 2 pg 1 - pg 4 panel 4
	Sentry
Sentry 2 pg 5 panel 5 - pg 11 panel 2
	Mr. Fantastic
	Sentry
	Invisible Woman
	Thing
	Human Torch II 
Sentry 2 pg 13, pg 17 - 22
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
	Thing
	Human Torch II
	Invisible Woman
Sentry 3 pg 1 - pg 17 panel 4
	Sentry
	Spider-Man
	Hulk
	Mr. Fantastic
	Invisible Woman
	Thing
	Human Torch II
Sentry 3 pg 17 panel 6 - pg 18 panel 3; pg 18 panel 5 - pg 22
	Sentry
	Dr. Strange
	Mr. Fantastic
	Spider-Man
Sentry 4 pg 1 - pg 2 panel 1; pg 3 - pg 12 panel 3
	Dr. Strange
	Mr. Fantastic
	Archangel
	Professor X
	Wolverine
	Rogue
	Nightcrawler
	Red Dragon
	Magma II(?)
	Spider-Man
	Robbie Robertson
Sentry 4 pg 12 panel 5 - pg 16 panel 1; pg 18
	Spider-Man
	Iron Man
	Sentry
Sentry 4 pg 19 panel 6 - pg 22
	Scout
	Mrs. Turner (Scout's mom)
	Sentry 
Sentry 5 pg 1 - pg 4; pg 5 panel 4; pg 6 panel 3 - pg 7 panel 2
	Cloc
	Sentry 
	Storm
	Archangel
	Professor X
	Mr. Fantastic
	Scout
	Mrs. Turner
Sentry 5 pg 7 panel 4 - pg 20
	Scout
	Sentry
	Watchdog
	Lindy Reynolds
	Void
	Mr. Fantastic
	Human Torch II
	Invisible Woman
	Thing
	Hulk
	Archangel
	Vision (BTS)
	Captain America
	Spider-Man
	Warbird
	Triathlon
	Thor
Sentry/Fantastic Four pg 1 - pg 3 panel 3; pg 7; pg 14; pg 17 
panel 1; pg 18 panel 4; pg 22
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
	Invisible Woman
	Vision
	Human Torch II
	Thing
	Hulk
	Captain America
	Spider-Man
	Archangel
	Warbird (BTS)
	Triathlon (BTS)
	Thor (BTS)
	Scout (BTS)
Sentry/X-Men pg 1 - pg 3; pg 9; pg 13; pg 23
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
	Invisible Woman (BTS)
	Human Torch II (BTS)
	Thing (BTS)
	Hulk (BTS)
	Captain America (BTS)
	Spider-Man (BTS)
	Archangel
	Warbird (BTS)
	Triathlon (BTS)
	Thor (BTS)
	Scout (BTS)
	Vision (BTS)
Sentry/Spider-Man pg 1 - pg 3 panel 4; pg 8 panels 1 - 3; pg 16; pg 22
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
	Invisible Woman
	Human Torch II 
	Thing 
	Hulk
	Captain America
	Spider-Man
	Archangel
	Warbird
	Triathlon (BTS)
	Thor (BTS)
	Scout (BTS)
	Vision
Sentry/Hulk pg 1 - pg 3; pg 22
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
	Invisible Woman (BTS)
	Human Torch II (BTS)
	Thing (BTS)
	Hulk
	Vision (BTS)
	Captain America
	Spider-Man
	Archangel
	Warbird (BTS)
	Triathlon (BTS)
	Thor (BTS)
	Scout (BTS)
Sentry/Void pg 1 - pg 6; pg 7 panel 5 - pg 9 panel 3
	Sentry
	Mr. Fantastic
	Invisible Woman (BTS)
	Human Torch II
	Thing (BTS)
	Hulk
	Captain America
	Spider-Man
	Archangel
	Warbird (BTS)
	Triathlon
	Vision (BTS)
	Thor
	Scout
	Doc Samson
	Dr. Octopus
	Dr. Strange
	Void
Sentry/Void pg 11 panel 4 - pg 13; pg 15 panel 6 - 22 panel 6; 
pg 22 panels 8 - 9
	Dr. Strange
	Mr. Fantastic
	Thing
	Hulk
	Void
	Sentry
	Daredevil
	Sub-Mariner
	Cloc
	Lindy Reynolds
	Scout

And there you go!  :)

 - Sean

			*	*	*

Re: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 11, 2001 at 16:34:19:
In Reply to: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
posted by SKleefeld on February 10, 2001 at 16:31:56:

: Sentry 1 pg 9 panels 2-5
: 	Sentry
: 	Void
: 	Iron Man (in orignal "Golden Bucket" armor, so must occur 
prior to Avengers #3)
: 	Giant-Man
: 	Wasp
: 	Captain America
: 	Thor

It isn't possible that these scenes occur prior to 'Avengers' #3 
because Captain America is present, so it should take place after 
'Avengers' #4 where they have already been placed in the Project.

			*	*	*

ARGH! Dang continuity glitches!
Posted by SKleefeld on February 13, 2001 at 06:33:11:
In Reply to: Re: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
posted by Antonio Gavio on February 11, 2001 at 16:34:19:

: It isn't possible that these scenes occur prior to 'Avengers' #3 
because Captain America is present, so it should take place after 
'Avengers' #4 where they have already been placed in the Project.

Blast! Excellent point. I keep forgetting he's a founder in name 
only. Although...

It could be that that isn't Captain America at all! There is that 
Strange Tales story where the Acrobat disguises himself as Captain 
America before Cap actually returns! Could the Avengers (and the 
Void) have run across him while Johnny was stuck inside that 
asbestos-lined truck?

I guess it would be more likely that Iron Man was still working 
the kinks out of his new armor and switched back to the Golden 
Bucket version for a brief time. Shortly after Avengers #4, I 
suppose?

Sean

			*	*	*

Re: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
Posted by Dr Bruce Banner on February 14, 2001 at 18:53:44:
In Reply to: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
posted by SKleefeld on February 10, 2001 at 16:31:56:

: OK, the Sentry flashback/flashforward thing was killing me and 
I had to figure this thing out for myself. So I Xeroxed every page 
of every Sentry book and fiddled around with them until the order 
made sense. Here goes...

Thanks Sean (but could somebody explain to me what any of this 
means in terms of chronology?) I've written up comprehenive 
appearances for the Void (for my Villains Site), and was hoping 
to use this to make sure my chronology is correct.

Thanks
Dr Bruce Banner

			*	*	*

Re: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
Posted by SKleefeld on February 16, 2001 at 11:36:19:
In Reply to: Re: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
posted by Dr Bruce Banner on February 14, 2001 at 18:53:44:

I'm certain Jenkins left a lot of it ambiguous untentionally. 
I've had a few thoughts on some of the items though...

The origin of Sentry is clearly intended to occur prior to FF #1.

The team-up with Hulk is shown to happen in Hulk #7 and 10. (Non-
existant issues, but clearly intended to fit in shortly after Hulk 
#6.)

The X-Men team-up is probably in between X-Men #2 and 3.

I would venture to guess that the wedding sequence and the "death" 
of Sentry happen sometime around FF #250 but clearly before #251. 

In terms of the contemporary part of the story, it must occur 
before when the new Baxter Building was dropped in place (FF v3 #39) 
according to Sentry #3. It also occurs after Professor X returns 
to the X-Men, so it would have to have been during or after the 
"Maximum Security" storyline.

Hope that helps a little.

Sean

			*	*	*

Re: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
Posted by Dr Bruce Banner on February 16, 2001 at 16:44:14:
In Reply to: Re: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
posted by SKleefeld on February 16, 2001 at 11:36:19:

Thanks again. I managed to piece together a Void chronology. 
The biggest continuity problem I found is that Jenkins writes 
that Sentry and Hulk teamed up against the Leader- if this was 
supposed to come between Hulk 7 and 10 it couldn't be- Leader 
wasn't created until Tales to Astonish started-

oh well...you can't have it all

Dr Bruce Banner

			*	*	*

Re: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
Posted by SKleefeld on February 16, 2001 at 19:47:49:
In Reply to: Re: The COMPLETE Sentry Chronology (long)
posted by Dr Bruce Banner on February 16, 2001 at 16:44:14:

Who's to say that still can't work? Hulk wasn't monthly when it 
started. For all we know, Hulk #7 didn't come out until after Hulk 
was appearing in TtA. 

And, to top that off, isn't Leader's origin set some time before 
his first appearance? Why couldn't he have run across the Hulk and 
Sentry in Hulk #8 or 9? He does make a comment about being both of 
them being green in TtA, but what if it was Sentry and Banner who 
foiled him before? Or Sentry and Joe Fixit?

My point is that Jenkins made it clear with Sentry that all is not 
always as it seems. It's all fiction anyway, so why can't we put 
this stuff in any order we want? Kind of goes against the point of 
Russ' site here, I suppose, but the writers are just making this 
stuff up. There's nothing to stop us from doing the same thing if 
we need/want to.

Sean

			*	*	*

Mendel Stromm
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 11, 2001 at 17:57:08:

Is Professor Mendel Stromm listed somewhere in the <br>Project?

			*	*	*

Re: Mendel Stromm
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 11, 2001 at 18:36:38:
In Reply to: Mendel Stromm
posted by Antonio Gavio on February 11, 2001 at 17:57:08:

Yes, Gaunt, on the G page.

			*	*	*

Long as  we're talking Stromm...
Posted by Prime Eternal on February 16, 2001 at 23:38:52:
In Reply to: Re: Mendel Stromm
posted by Russ Chappell on February 11, 2001 at 18:36:38:

In Spectacular Spider-Man#68, Stromm's body appears lying in his 
crypt, in a story that reveals that after his death, failsafes 
activated a robot "son" with his mind to continue his work for him.

I have a feeling none of the people involved in creating Gaunt read 
this story, however...

MH

			*	*	*

Re: Long as  we're talking Stromm...
Posted by Yellow Claw on February 26, 2001 at 04:31:59:
In Reply to: Long as  we're talking Stromm...
posted by Prime Eternal on February 16, 2001 at 23:38:52:

The Osborn Journals suggest that Norman obtained Stromm's "corpse" 
from his crypt and then revived him, so it does fit in. Of course, 
the Osborn Journals make no mention of genetically altered actresses, 
but aside from that I think it should be treated as canonical - we 
could easily say that Norman didn't mention that in case a copy of 
the journals fell into Peter's hands.

Cheers,

Yellow Claw.

			*	*	*

The COMPLETE Spider-Man: Revenge Of The Green Goblin chronology
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 13, 2001 at 11:59:07:

Spider-Man : Revenge Of The Green Goblin  1
Madness Takes Its Toll!

Norman Osborn tells  the events after his last battle with  
Spider-Man  throughout this issue. Said events take place during  
six different periods of time:

*Pg 1-8: Norman Osborn reviews a video of  his last battle with 
Spider-Man, Dr. Bendix checks his condition (next day of Spider-Man  
and Thors battle with Tokkots in PPSM2 2)
-Norman Osborn (last in ASM 00-FB)
-Donald Menken  (last in SM:RGG 1-FB)
-Kolina Frederickson (first appearance)
-Dr. Albert Bendix (first appearance, last chronological appearance 
in SM:RGG 1-FB)

Flashback: Spider-Man defeats the Green Goblin
-Spider-Man 
-Green Goblin
-J. Jonah Jameson 
-Betty Brant
-Ben Urich
(All five last seen in PPTSS 263)

Flashback: Norman Osborn is rescued by the scriers
-Norman Osborn
-Donald Menken
(Both last in S-M 98, Menken seen there only as one of the scriers)
-Dr. Albert Bendix (first chronological appearance)

*Pg 9, Pn 1-3: Norman Osborn improves his condition (same, next or 
a few days after Spider-Mans battle with Captain Power in ASM2 10)
-Norman Osborn
-Donald Menken
-Dr. Albert Bendix 

*Pg 9, Pn 4-5: Norman reads about Mary Janes airplane explosion 
(next day of Mary Janes airline explosion in ASM2 13)
-Norman Osborn

*Pg 10-11: Kolina Frederickson reminds Norman of his late wife (next 
day of Venoms attack at the Bugle in PPSM2 16)
-Norman Osborn
-Kolina Frederickson 

Flashback: Normans days with his wife until her death
-Norman Osborn (last in SM:RGG 2-FB, in SM:RGG 3-FB between panels 
of this flashback) 
-Emily Osborn (first appearance, last chronological appearance in 
SM:RGG 2-FB, dies)
-Harry Osborn (newborn, first chronological appearance to date)

*Pg 12-15: Norman moves back home from safe house and has a romantic 
night with Kolina Frederickson (within the same week of reading about 
Venoms attack at the Bugle in PPSM2 16)
-Norman Osborn
-Donald Menken
-Kolina Frederickson 
-Ruzenka (first and only appearance, a servant at Normans house)

Flashback: Norman as a kid scared of dark is left alone by his 
father
-Norman Osborn (first chronological appearance to date)
-Norman Amberson Osborn (first chronological appearance to date)

*Pg 16-22: Spider-Man stops three bank robbers on a rainy day then 
heads home as Peter Parker where Norman disguised as a mailman gives 
him free toothpaste (in between PPSM2 22 and PPSM2 23)

Spider-Man: Revenge Of The Green Goblin 2
Lives In The Balance!

Norman Osborn institutes the Order of the Goblin and sends Dr. Bendix 
to be killed, Peter Parker has nightmares with the Green Goblin; the 
next day Spider-Man notices his spider-sense deadening on his way to 
see his aunt May; Green Goblin discovered by Kolina as he watches a 
mind-controlled Spider-Man  head to the Goblins hideaway (after 
PPSM2 23-24 where Peter thinks his and Randys first nightmares are 
induced by aliens) 
-Spider-Man
-Aunt May
(Both last seen in PPSM2 24)
-Norman Osborn 
-Dr. Albert Bendix 
-Donald Menken
-Kolina Frederickson
(last four last in SM:RGG 1)

Flashback: Norman wakes up in a morgue, flies to Europe, becomes a 
member of the Scriers and eventually the leader
-Norman Osborn  (last in ASM 123)

Flashback: Norman Osborn still insane after being rescued by the 
scriers, some scriers fallow Scrier Jr.
-Norman Osborn 
-Dr. Albert Bendix 
-Donald Menken
(all three last in SM:RGG 1-FB)
-Scrier Jr. (in between panels of  ASM 00-FB)

Flashback: Norman (boy) watches his father hit his wife
-Norman Osborn 
-Norman Amberson Osborn
(both last in SM:RGG 1-FB)
-Normans mother (first chronological appearance)

Flashback: Norman and Emily Osborn take a walk
-Norman Osborn  (last in PPSM2 25-FB)
-Emily Osborn (first chronological appearance)

Spider-Man: Revenge Of The Green Goblin 3
Surrender To The Dark!

Before dawn, a mind-controlled Peter Parker (disguised as the Green 
Goblin) disposes of Dr. Bendixs dead body, and later wakes up 
thinking it was a nightmare, at morning the body is found, later 
Norman tries to explain Kolina of his reasons being the Green Goblin 
(this issue takes place immediately after SM:RGG 2; this is the 
first time Peter dresses up as the Green Goblin induced by 
subliminals planted on CD by Norman, so it should take place before 
ASM2 22-24 where Randy Robertson is first seen with a small goatee 
and Peter is seen again as the Green Goblin )
-Spider-Man 
-Dr. Albert Bendix (dead body)
-Norman Osborn
-Donald Menken
-Kolina Frederickson
(All five last in SM:RGG 2)
-Randy Robertson
-Joe Robertson
(Both last in PPSM2 24)

Flashback: Norman Osborn at his wifes funeral
-Norman Osborn 
-Emily Osborn (dead)
(Both last in between panels of SM:RGG 1-FB)

Flashback: Norman recovers after being exposed to explosion with 
Stromms formula
-Norman Osborn (last in PPTSS@ 14-FB)

So updates to their respective chronologies should be as fallows:

GREEN GOBLIN/NORMAN OSBORN
SM:RGG 1-FB (Pg 14,Pn 3-Pg 15,Pn 1)
SM:RGG 2-FB (Pg 12,Pn 3)
PPTSS@ 14-FB (Pg 13-15,Pn 1)
ASM2 25-FB
PPSM2 25-FB
SM:RGG 2-FB (Pg 13,Pn 2-3)
SM:RGG 1-FB (Pg 10,Pn 5-Pg 11,Pn 2)
SM:RGG 3-FB (Pg 8,Pn 4)
SM:RGG 1-FB (Pg 11,Pn 3)
PPTSS@ 14-FB (Pg 20,Pn 2-6, Pg 22,Pn 8-9)
S-M -1-FB
S-M -1
PPTSS@ 14-FB (Pg 25,Pn 3-7)
SM:RGG 3-FB (Pg 15,Pn 5)
ASM 97-FB
...
PPTSM 263
SM:RGG 1-FB (Pg 1-3)
S-M 98
SM:RGG 1-FB (Pg 7-8,Pn 1)
SM:RGG 2-FB (Pg 3,Pn 2)
ASM 00-FB
SM:RGG 1
SM:RGG 2
SM:RGG 3
AMS2 25

MENKEN, DONALD L.
...
AMS 97
S-M 98
SM:RGG 1-FB
SM:RGG 2-FB
SM:RGG 1
SM:RGG 2
SM:RGG 3

FREDERICKSON, KOLINA
SM:RGG 1
SM:RGG 2
SM:RGG 3

BENDIX, ALBERT
SM:RGG 1-FB
SM:RGG 2-FB
SM:RGG 1
SM:RGG 2
SM:RGG 3

SPIDER-MAN/PETER PARKER
...
PPTSM 263
SM:RGG 1-FB
S-M 98
...
PPSM2 22
SM:RGG 1
PPSM2 23
PPSM2 24
W2 156
W2 157
SM:RGG 2
SM:RGG 3
MAXIMUM SECURITY 1 (?)
ASM2 22
ASM2 23
ASM2 24
MAXIMUM SECURITY 3
ASM2 25
PPSM2 25

JAMESON, J. JONAH
...
PPTSM 263
SM:RGG 1-FB
S-M 98
...

LEEDS, BETTY BRANT
...
PPTSM 263
SM:RGG 1-FB
S-M 98
...

URICH, BEN
...
PPTSM 263
SM:RGG 1-FB
S-M 98
...

OSBORN, EMILY
SM:RGG 2-FB (Pg 13,Pn 2-3)
SM:RGG 1-FB (Pg 10,Pn 5-Pg 11,Pn 2)
SM:RGG 3-FB (Pg 8,Pn 4)
SM:RGG 1-FB (Pg 11,Pn 3)

OSBORN, HARRY
SM:RGG 1-FB 
PPTSS@ 14-FB (Pg 20,Pn 2-6, Pg 22,Pn 8-9)
...

RUZENKA
SM:RGG 1

OSBORN, NORMAN AMBERSON
SM:RGG 1-FB (Pg 14,Pn 3-Pg 15,Pn 1)
SM:RGG 2-FB (Pg 12,Pn 3)
PPTSS@ 14-FB (Pg 13-15,Pn 1)
ASM2 25-FB
PPSM2 25-FB

SCRIER JR.
AMS 00-FB
SM:RGG 2-FB<
AMS 00-FB
AMS 00

PARKER, MAY
...
PPSM2 24
SM:RGG 2
ASM2 24

NORMAN OSBORNS MOTHER
SM:RGG 2-FB
PPTSS@ 14-FB

ROBERTSON, RANDY
...
PPSM2 24
SM:RGG 3
ASM2 22

ROBERTSON, JOE
...
PPSM2 24
SM:RGG 3
ASM2 24

			*	*	*

Re: The COMPLETE Spider-Man: Revenge Of The Green Goblin chronology
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 20, 2001 at 22:27:39:
In Reply to: The COMPLETE Spider-Man: Revenge Of The Green Goblin 
chronology
posted by Antonio Gavio on February 13, 2001 at 11:59:07:

I guess you still haven't gone through my post on the chronology for 
Spider-Man: Revenge Of The Green Goblin because I notice you are 
already placing ASM2 22-24 before SM:RGG 2-3 which is not possible. 
In SM:RGG 3 Peter dresses as Green Goblin induced by subliminals 
planted on a compact disk for the first time and in ASM2 23-24 he 
does it again.

You are also wrongly placing PPSM2 23-24 after ASM2 22-24 to make 
it fit within the Maximum Security crossover chronology, but those 
two issues are not part of that crossover even though it is said 
otherwise. A closer look at those 2 issues tells us that the aliens 
on those issues are not criminal aliens sent prisoner to Earth like 
the rest of aliens in Maximum Security, they are even in their own 
space ship, and the recent spate of vandalism in the city is the 
one originated by the hybrid created by Peters DNA.

There is a mistake in the update that I posted for Spider-Man 
though, , I tentatively placed W2 156-157 before SM:RGG 2 but I 
didn't know that W2 156-157 took place after Maximum Security, so, 
because he is seen there with his spider sense at full potential 
they should take place after PPSM2 25

The update for his chronology should then be like this:

SPIDER-MAN/PETER PARKER
...
PPTSM 263
SM:RGG 1-FB
S-M 98
...
FF3 36
PPSM2 22
SM:RGG 1
PPSM2 23
PPSM2 24
SM:RGG 2
SM:RGG 3
ASM2 22
ASM2 23
ASM2 24
MAXIMUM SECURITY 1-FB
ASM2 24
MAXIMUM SECURITY 3
ASM2 25
PPSM2 25
W2 156
W2 157
...

			*	*	*

Question for Russ
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 16, 2001 at 03:21:58:

I'm almost done analizing chronologies for Spider-Man: Death & 
Destiny 1-3, but before I post them I want to make sure of something: 
Where do you exactly place the flashback in ASM 365/3? I know it 
takes place in between pages or panels of ASM 91 but, exactly which 
ones? 

			*	*	*

Re: Question for Russ
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 18, 2001 at 20:55:47:
In Reply to: Question for Russ
posted by Antonio Gavio on February 16, 2001 at 03:21:58:

ASM 365/3-FB occurs shortly after George Stacy's funeral, between 
panels 3 and 4 of page 4 in ASM 91.

			*	*	*

Re: Question for Russ
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 19, 2001 at 00:02:08:
In Reply to: Re: Question for Russ
posted by Russ Chappell on February 18, 2001 at 20:55:47:

That's where I placed it; anyway, I should be posting the 
chronologies any time now. 

			*	*	*

i can help out if you wish
Posted by comico on February 18, 2001 at 17:22:18:

i notice that you guys are always looking for help in chronologically 
analysing books tht you either didn't get or books that haven't 
already been done from the past.Well i'm willing to help but i'll 
need a few things explained to help me though.

1)what exactly does it involve

2)do i select a tile or do you give me one

			*	*	*

Re: i can help out if you wish
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 18, 2001 at 21:05:51:
In Reply to: i can help out if you wish
posted by comico on February 18, 2001 at 17:22:18:

> 1)what exactly does it involve

That's a good question. If anyone out there feels inclined to 
write an essay on what it entails to analyze a book, I'd be glad 
to add a page to MCP which serves as a kind of tutorial. Everyone? 
Send me an email detailing how you go about analyzing books, the 
clues you look for in determining chronologies, and I'll try to 
cobble them together in an article.

: 2)do i select a tile or do you give me one

You select any book you want, but make sure it's not from the 
first gap. For loads of suggestions, see the Gap 2 page at
http://www.chronologyproject.com/gap2/.

			*	*	*

The COMPLETE Spider-Man: Death &amp; Destiny chronology
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 20, 2001 at 01:45:32:

Notes:

1) The title page of each issue of Death and Destiny bears the 
line: "The events of this story occur immediately after those in 
Amazing Spider-Man #90."

*Just issue number one of this series takes place immediately after 
ASM 90, the last two take place a few weeks after that.

2) At the beginning of Death and Destiny #3, Gwen forgives Peter 
for not being there for her throughout the death of her father.

*Throughout SM:D&D 3 Peter acts strangely to Gwen, first suddenly 
leaving her at the library to look for Doc Ock and then not 
accepting to join her, Mary Jane and Harry to go to a restaurant.

3) At the beginning of ASM #93, Gwen wonders aloud why Peter has 
been acting so strangely since the death of her father and she 
hardly ever sees him.

4) At the end of Death and Destiny #3, Peter says that Gwen just 
told him she's going to England...

*... and he thinks things will be better when she returns, so he 
expects her to return.

5) At the beginning of ASM #93, Gwen's Uncle Arthur calls her from 
London and suggests that she live with him.

*ASM 93 Pg 2, Pn 8: Gwen tells Peter: I just had a call from my 
aunt and uncle-- in London. They want me to go there-- to live 
with them.; which wasnt an option before, meaning she is not 
returning as Peter thought when Gwen had decided to go to England, 
not to her uncles house but probably just vacationing.

*6) Flash Thompson is seen in SM:D&D 2-3 (after he left to Asia in 
ASM 83) in a leave of absence from military duties. Its not said 
this is the first time he does that so this could explain his 
presence in ASM 365-FB that takes place after ASM 83 too. 

Spider-Man: Death & Destiny 1
Part One: Focus

The events of this issue take place during two different periods of 
time:

*Pg 2-16: (A few days after Captain Stacys death and before his 
funeral) Spider-Man catches goons to get information about Dr. 
Octopus. The next morning (Wednesday, June 7th) after trying to 
sell the pictures to J. Jonah Jameson with no results, Peter heads 
to school where he gets late, Professor Warren again offers him 
help; that night and the next one Spider-Man keeps capturing 
criminals while looking for Doc Ock who is trying to fix his arms. 
The morning of Captain Stacys funeral (Friday, June 9th) Peter 
again tries in vain to sell pictures to Jonah before heading to 
the funeral. 

-Spider-Man 
-May Parker 
(Both last in A 82)
-Dr. Octopus
-Harry Osborn
-Gwen Stacy
(Last three last in ASM 90)
-Joe Robertson 
-J. Jonah Jameson
(Both last in ASM 89)
-Miles Warren (last in ASM 88)
-Mary Jane (last in ASM 365/3-FB)

*Pg 17-24): (Same night of captain Stacys funeral) Spider-Man 
realizes he is getting to hard on crooks and decides to sleep; later, 
nightmares wake up Peter and he decides to call Professor Warren.

-Spider-man (last in ASM 365/3-FB)
-Dr. Octopus
-Francis Smith (first appearance, Dr. Ocks helper)
-Miles Warren (behind the scenes)

Spider-Man: Death & Destiny 2
Part Two: The Camera Doesnt Lie

(The events of this issue take place weeks after Captain Stacys 
death)
Spider-Man keeps trying to find Dr. Octopus; Doc Ock sends two men 
to kill a former lackey, Peter decides to stop avoiding to see Gwen 
and feeling guilty. 

-Spider-Man (last in SS 14)
-Gwen Stacy
-J. Jonah Jameson
-Joe Robertson
(Last three last in ASM 92)
-Dr. Octopus
-Miles Warren
-Francis Smith
-May Parker
(Last four last in SM:D&D 1)
-Harry Osborn
-Flash Thompson
-Mary Jane
(Last three last in ASM 365/3-FB)
-Henry "Hank the Bull" Sturgess (first and only appearance, killed)

Spider-Man: Death & Destiny 3
Part Three: Deja Vu All Over Again

(The events of this issue take place before ASM 93)
Gwen forgives Peter for not being with her after her fathers death, 
Ock escapes after fighting Spider-Man on top of the Daily Bugle, 
Spider-Man rescues Jameson.

-Spider-Man
-Gwen Stacy
-J. Jonah Jameson
-Joe Robertson
-Dr. Octopus
-Francis Smith
-Harry Osborn
-Flash Thompson
-Mary Jane
(All nine last in SM:D&D 2)

ASM 365/3-FB
I Remember Gwen

Mary Jane remembers Gwen Stacy

-Mary Jane
-Peter Parker
(Both last in ASM 364, Mary Jane behind the scenes) (No need to update)

Flashback: (Pg 2, Pn 2-4) Peter parties with friends (same night after 
Dr. Octopus is believed to be dead at an airplane explosion in ASM 88)

-Peter Parker
-Gwen Stacy
-Captain Stacy
(All three last in ASM 88)
-Harry Osborn
-Mary Jane
(Both last in ASM 96-FB)
-Flash Thompson (last in ASM 83)

Flashback: (Pg 3, Pn 1) Peter hears Ock is on the loose (next day of 
party)

-Peter Parker (in between panels 1-2 of ASM 89 Pg 5)

Flashback: (Pg 5, Pn 4) Peter defends Spider-Man and Gwen gets mad at 
him (the night of Captain Stacys funeral)

-Peter Parker
-Gwen Stacy
(Both last in ASM 91 Pg 4, Pn 3)

Flashback: (Pg 6) Gwen forgives Peter for  defending Spider-Man (the 
next morning of Captain Stacys funeral)

-Peter Parker (last in SM:D&D 1 end)
-Gwen Stacy
-Harry Osborn
-Mary Jane
(Last three last in SM:D&D 1 beginning)
-Flash Thompson (last in ASM 365/3-FB)

Updates to their respective chronologies should be as fallows:

SPIDER-MAN/PETER PARKER
...
ASM 88
ASM 365/3-FB
ASM 89
ASM 365/3-FB
ASM 89
ASM 90
A 82
SM:D&D 1
ASM 91
ASM 365/3-FB
SM:D&D 1
ASM 365/3-FB
ASM 91
ASM 92
SS 14
SM:D&D 2
SM:D&D 3
ASM 93
...

DR. OCTOPUS/OTTO OCTAVIUS
...
ASM 90
SM:D&D 1
SM:D&D 2
SM:D&D 3
ASM 112
...

STACY, GWEN
...
ASM 88
ASM 365/3-FB
ASM 90
SM:D&D 1
ASM 91
ASM 365/3-FB
ASM 91
ASM 92
SM:D&D 2
SM:D&D 3
ASM 93
...

JOE ROBERTSON
...
ASM 89
SM:D&D 1
ASM 91
ASM 92
SM:D&D 2
SM:D&D 3
ASM 95
...

STACY, CAPT. GEORGE
...
ASM 88
ASM 365/3-FB
ASM 90
...

JAMESON, J. JONAH
...
ASM 90
SM:D&D 1
ASM 91
ASM 92
SM:D&D 2
SM:D&D 3
ASM 95
...

JACKAL/MILES WARREN
...
ASM 88
SM:D&D 1
SM:D&D 2
ASM 114
...

OSBORN, HARRY
...
ASM 96-FB
ASM 365/3-FB
ASM 90
SM:D&D 1
ASM 91
ASM 365/3-FB
SM:D&D 2
SM:D&D 3
CAP 137
...

WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE
...
ASM 96-FB
ASM 365/3-FB
SM:D&D 1
ASM 365/3-FB
SM:D&D 2
SM:D&D 3
DD 77
...

THOMPSON, EUGENE FLASH
...
ASM 83
ASM 365/3-FB
ASM 365/3-FB
SM:D&D 2
SM:D&D 3
ASM 108-FB
...

PARKER, MAY
...
A 82
SM:D&D 1
SM:D&D 2
ASM 94
...

SMITH, FRANCIS
SM:D&D 1
SM:D&D 2
SM:D&D 3

			*	*	*

Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT v.3 #6
Posted by Jeph! on February 20, 2001 at 16:54:23:

Originally I was going to post chronologies for GAMBIT Vol. 3 #6, 7, 
and Annual 1999 as one post, but it got completely out of hand.  So 
I'm posting them one at a time, with a completely integrated MCP-style 
list at the bottom (meaning, a list that combines all the additions 
from GAM3 6, 7, and @'99, and is exactly the same in all three posts).  
From time to time you may need to reference my earlier posts on 
GAM3 3-5, many of the assertations I make here assume that you're as 
familiar with them as I am.  : )

Please note my mind-boggling nit-pickiness, and my constant 
assertation that the MCP is wrong.  Enjoy!

	-Jeph!

---

GAMBIT Vol. 3 #6  July 1999
"Pig Pen part 1: Muddy Waters" by Fabian Nicieza and Steve Skroce

Characters appearing, part one (around nine years ago):
Remy LeBeau (Gambit, age 15)
Etienne Marceaux
Candra
The Pig
Madame Hydra (Viper II)

Characters appearing in part one, flashback (earlier that week; still 
around nine years ago):
Jean-Luc LeBeau
Etienne Marceaux
Remy LeBeau (Gambit)

Characters appearing, part two (present day):
Gambit
Mary Purcell, BTS
Jean-Luc LeBeau
Shirow Ishihara
Zoe Ishihara
Grigori "Greg Mengo" Mengochauzcraus
Stanislaus "Stan Mengo" Mengochauzcraus
The Pig

Characters appearing in part two, flashback (between this issue and 
last):
Jean-Luc LeBeau
Zoe Ishihara
Shirow Ishihara

Characters appearing in dreamscrape:
Fontanelle
Kimberly Purcell

Characters appearing in dreamscrape flashback (ten years ago):
Kimberly Purcell
Mary Purcell

Synopsis:  The story opens with young Remy LeBeau, age 15, trying 
to save his friend Etienne Marceaux from a pinch gone bad.  A 
flashback explains that they are performing Etienne's tilling 
ceremony, his ceremonial first theft to formally induct him into 
the Thieves' Guild.  Unfortunately, they are trying to steal from 
the immortal Candra, and they encounter some unexpected resistance.  
Remy and Etienne are captured and taken to the Pig, a deformed arms 
dealer who specializes in conditioning runaway children and selling 
them as footsoldiers.  As Madame Hydra shows up to make a buy, Remy 
uses his newfound mutant powers to attempt an escape, but things go 
wrong and the Pig knocks the two of them off a ledge, into the ocean 
below.  Remy throws a stray playing card, blinding the Pig in one 
eye, but Etienne dies in the fall.

Cutting to present day, the Mengo brothers have led a massacre 
against the Thieves' Guild in order to find Zoe and Shirow Ishihara, 
who are wanted by the Mengos' employer  none other than the Pig.  
Zoe and Shirow are on the run, and Gambit interferes when the Mengos 
attack them, but in the end all three end up getting captured

Meanwhile, Fontanelle dreamscrapes Kimberly Purcell, the sister of 
Mary Purcell, the energy being who currently lives inside of Gambit.  
She makes Kim relive a moment at Mary's grave ten years prior, then 
shows her how Mary's energy form had risen from the grave shortly 
after that

Notes:  The first half of the story takes place when Gambit was 
fifteen  approximately nine years ago, by the ever-fluctuating 
Marvel Time.  It can't really be called a flashback  the book 
merely takes place at that time.  It's hard to place Madame Hydra's 
appearance in this story  she is the clearly acknowledged ruler of 
Hydra, but is looking for children to act as recruitment 
specialists  so Hydra is still small.  I'd like to keep this 
appearance as early as possible (after all, nine years encompasses 
most of the MU post-FF#1), so I'm going to tentatively place it 
between Madame Hydra's first outing in CA 110-113 and her second 
adventure in CA 180-183.  Unfortunately, there are two flashbacks 
between them: A 107-FB and CA 180-FB, and I don't know what happened 
in them.  Presumably CA 180-FB merely sets up the events of CA 180, 
and A 107-FB is likely some detail on how Madame Hydra lived through 
the events of CA 113, so I'm placing the first half of this issue 
between those two flashbacks for now.  More detail, however, would 
be helpful.

The second half of the book takes place in present day.  Earlier, I 
placed GAM3 6, 7, and @'99 as occuring just after X@'99, the end of 
the "M-Tech" storyline that returned the X-Men from outer space.  
This works well, because Gambit's being off-Earth would explain why 
he wasn't around to come to the Guild's defense during the Mengo's 
raid.  In fact, all three issues that I'm archiving today take place 
between X@'99 and UX 372, the beginning of the "Shattering" storyline 
that breaks up the X-Men and ties into GAM3 8.

Also, upon looking at Gambit's early life on the MCP, I have noticed 
a few mistakes.  You currently have it as:

GAM3 1-FB
X 8-FB
GAM3 1-FB
GAM3 19-FB
X 8-FB
GAM3 1-FB
GAM3 19-FB

Now, X 8-FB only covers two things: Gambit's wedding, and his duel 
with his brother-in-law Julien.  If the first X 8-FB notation, second 
line down, is to be believed, then everything past that must be after 
the wedding.  But GAM3 19's first flashback is to when Gambit and 
Bella Donna were children, stealing candy  so that must come 
*before * the first X 8-FB. I have taken the liberty of re-shuffling 
these flashbacks, as shown below, with notations as to what is what.  
I have also included a FB from GAM3 23 that you have apparently left 
out, to Gambit's first encounter with Sinister.

GAM3 1-FB (p.15-16, p.17-panels 1-4  birth through age eight, Remy 
meets Bella Donna, is adopted by Jean-Luc)
GAM3 19-FB (p.15-panel 4  stealing candy with Bella Donna, age ten)
*GAM3 6-FB (Etienne's tilling ceremony, described above)
*GAM3 6 (first meeting with Candra, age 15, described above)
*GAM3 23-FB (Sinister damps down his powers, age 17  not on the MCP)
GAM3 1-FB ~ GAM3 19-FB ~ X 8-FB (Gambit's wedding, age 18  all three 
FBs contain repeated scenes, hence the ~ notation.)
GAM3 1-FB (p.18-panel 1  Gambit prepares for the duel with Julien)
X 8-FB (p.18-panel 3  Gambit kills Julien)
GAM3 1-FB (p.18-panel 2  Gambit walks away from Julien's corpse)
X 8-FB (p. 18-panel 4  Gambit is exiled)

From that his MCP chronology flows correctly into his UX 350-FB 
encounters with Mr. Sinister  but I'll get more in detail about 
*that * when I discuss next issue.  Also, the same minor mistakes 
need to be corrected with Bella Donna Boudreaux's early life  her 
chronology, just like Gambit's, should read:

GAM3 1-FB (p.16-panels 3-4, p.17-panels 1-3  meeting Remy)
GAM3 19-FB (p.15-panel 4  stealing candy with Remy)
GAM3 1-FB ~ GAM3 19-FB ~ X 8-FB (their wedding)
X 8 (her first appearance)
and so on.

Also, while I'm at it, Jean-Luc LeBeau has a problem or two in his 
past.  His chronology currently reads, in part:

GAM3 22-FB
GAM3 22-FB
GAM3 1-FB-BTS

And it should read like this:

GAM3 22-FB (1923, Jean-Luc becomes head of the Thieves' Guild)
GAM3 1-FB (p.17-panel 4  NOT a BTS appearance, Jean-Luc catches a 
ten-year-old Remy picking his pocket and adopts him into the Guild)
*GAM3 6-FB (Etienne's tilling, described above)
GAM3 22-FB (Jean-Luc arranges Gambit's marriage to Bella Donna)
GAM3 1-FB (p.18-panel 1  also not BTS, Jean-Luc watches as Gambit 
prepares for the duel with Julien.)
and so on.

---

So: Chronology for part one of this issue:
- Remy LeBeau (Gambit) appeared last in this issue's first FB, and 
next in GAM3 23-FB, age 17, having his powers reduced by Mr. 
Sinister (currently not on the MCP, as described above).  He then 
appeared in GAM3 1-FB, at his wedding.
- Etienne Marceaux appeared last in this issue's first FB.  This 
was his final appearance.
- Candra appeared last in GAM3 14, in 1891, then in GAM3 10, in 
1943, then in this issue, and next in XU 7.
- This is the Pig's first appearance.  He appeared next in GAM3 4.
- Madame Hydra (Viper II), as far as I can tell, appeared last in 
A 107-FB, and next in CA 180-FB.

Chronology, part one flashback:
- Jean-Luc LeBeau appeared last in GAM3 1-FB, catching and adopting 
Remy, and next in the second GAM3 22 FB, three years after this 
issue.
- This is Etienne Marceaux's first appearance.  He appeared next in 
the main body of this issue.
- Remy LeBeau (Gambit) appeared last in GAM3 19-FB, age ten.  He too 
appeared next in the main body of this issue.

Chronology, part two:
- Gambit (and Mary Purcell, BTS, living inside him) appeared last 
in X@'99, and next in GAM3 7.
- Jean-Luc LeBeau, Zoe and Shirow Ishihara all appeared last in this 
issue's second FB, and next in GAM3 7.
- Grigori and Stanislaus Mengochauzcraus (misspelled as MengochauzEraus 
on the MCP) appeared last in GAM3 5, and next in GAM3 7.
- The Pig appeared last in GAM3 4, and next in GAM3 7.

Chronology, part two flashback:
- Jean-Luc LeBeau, Zoe and Shirow Ishihara all appeared last in 
GAM3 5, and next in the main body of this issue.

Dreamscrape chronology:
- Fontanelle appeared last in GAM3 5, and next in GAM3 7.
- Kimberly Purcell appeared last in the dreamscrape's FB, and next 
in GAM3@'99.

Dreamscrape chronology, flashback:
- Kimberly Purcell appeared last in GAM3@'99-FB, and next in the 
main body of the dreamscrape.
- Mary Purcell appeared last in GAM3@'99-FB (dying in a car fire), 
and next in GAM3@'99-FB (in energy form, in the background of a 
videotaped conversation between Magneto and Ferris, prior to UX 
348-350).

---

GAMBIT vol. 3 #7 and Annual 1999 are covered in my next two posts.  
However, here's my MCP-style chronology for GAM3 6, 7, and @'99.  
Added characters and issues get a * notation, MCP chronology that 
I have shifted around (like Gambit's early life) gets a  notation 
next to it.  Issues not yet added to the MCP have (parentheses) 
around them, and can be disregarded for now.  Also, since this is 
the last time anyone will likely mention Mary Purcell, I've taken 
the liberty of posting a full chronology for her below: all the 
issues which she was living BTS inside Gambit as a separate entity.

ALOUETTE, GENARD
*GAM3 7
(GAM3 16)


THE BEAST / HENRY McCOY

SS3 123
-X@'97
UX 341

X 88
*GAM3@'99
UX 375


CANDRA

GAM3 14
(GAM3 10)
*GAM3 6
XU 7


FONTANELLE / GLORIA DAYNE

GAM3 5
*GAM3 6
*GAM3 7
(GAM3 8)


GAMBIT / REMY LeBEAU
GAM3 1-FB
-GAM3 19-FB
*GAM3 6-FB
*GAM3 6
*GAM3 23-FB
-GAM3 1-FB ~ GAM3 19-FB ~ X 8-FB
GAM3 1-FB
-X 8-FB
-GAM3 1-FB
X 8-FB
UX 350-FB
*UX 210-BTS
UX 350-FB
*GAM3 7-FB
UX 350-FB
UX 266

UX 340
-X@'97
UX 341

UX 350
*GAM3@'99-FB
(GAM3 0.5-FB)
-XU 18
(GAM3 0.5)
*UX 361-FB-BTS
(GAM2 1)
GAM2 2
(GAM2 3)
(GAM2 4)
UX 361

X@'99
*GAM3 6
*GAM3 7
*GAM3@'99
UX 372


*HOLE
*GAM3 7

ISHIHARA, SHIROW
*GAM3 7-FB
GAM3 4
GAM3 5
*GAM3 6-FB
*GAM3 6
*GAM3 7

ISHIHARA, ZOE
*GAM3 7-FB
GAM3 4
GAM3 5
*GAM3 6-FB
*GAM3 6
*GAM3 7
GAM3 16


*KELLIG
*GAM3 7

LeBEAU, JEAN-LUC

GAM3 22-FB
-GAM3 1-FB
*GAM3 6-FB
GAM3 22-FB
-GAM3 1-FB

GAM3 5
*GAM3 6-FB
*GAM3 6
*GAM3 7
(GAM3 10-BTS)


MacTAGGERT, MOIRA

MR 1
*GAM3@'99
UX 375


*MARCEAUX, ETIENNE
*GAM3 6-FB
*GAM3 6

MARROW / SARAH
-UX 347-FB
*XU 18/2-FB
*GAM3 7-FB
-UX 350-FB
-C2 15-FB
*C2 15
-UX 374-FB
X: PRIME

W2 140
*GAM3@'99
UX 372


MENGOCHAUZCRAUS, GRIGORI ("GREG MENGO")

GAM3 5
*GAM3 6
*GAM3 7
GAM3 12


MENGOCHAUZCRAUS, STANISLAUS ("STAN MENGO")

GAM3 5
*GAM3 6
*GAM3 7
GAM3 12


THE NEW SUN

GAM3 5
*GAM3 7
(GAM3 8)


THE PIG
*GAM3 6
GAM3 4
*GAM3 6
*GAM3 7

PROFESSOR X / CHARLES FRANCIS XAVIER

W2 140
*GAM3@'99
UX 372


*PURCELL, KIMBERLY
*GAM3@'99-FB
*GAM3 6-FB
*GAM3 6
*GAM3@'99

PURCELL, MARY
*GAM3@'99-FB-BTS
*GAM3@'99-FB
*GAM3 6-FB
*GAM3@'99-FB
(GAM3 0.5-FB-BTS)
XU 18-BTS
(GAM3 0.5)
*UX 361-FB-BTS
(GAM2 1-BTS)
GAM2 2-BTS
(GAM2 3-BTS)
(GAM2 4-BTS)
UX 361-BTS
X 81
XU 22-BTS
A3 10-BTS
UX 362-BTS
X 82
X 83-BTS
X 84-BTS
UX 365-BTS
GAM3 1-BTS
X 85-BTS
GAM3 2-BTS
GAM3 3-BTS
X:MW 1-BTS
UX 366-BTS
X 86-BTS
UX 367-BTS
X 87-BTS
GAM3 4-BTS
XU 23-BTS
GAM3 5
UX 368-BTS
X 88-BTS
UX 369-BTS
X 89-BTS
UX 370-BTS
X 90-BTS
W2 145-BTS
UX 371-BTS
X 91-BTS
X@'99-BTS
*GAM3 6-BTS
*GAM3 7-BTS
*GAM3@'99

ROGUE

SS3 123
-X@'97
UX 341

X@'99
*GAM3@'99
UX 372


SABRETOOTH / VICTOR CREED

PPSSM 119
*UX 350-FB
*UX 210-BTS
*UX 350-FB
*GAM3 7-FB
XF 10


SCALPHUNTER / GREY CROW
UX 215-FB
*UX 350-FB
UX 210
*UX 350-FB-BTS
UX 210
UX 211
*GAM3 7-FB
XF 10


VIPER II (MADAME HYDRA)

A 107-FB?
*GAM3 6
CA 180-FB?


			*	*	*

Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT v.3 #7
Posted by Jeph! on February 20, 2001 at 16:56:08:

GAMBIT Vol. 3 #7  August 1999
"Pig Pen part 2: Dirty Troughs" by Fabian Nicieza and Steve Skroce

Characters appearing:
The Pig
Herr Kellig
Shirow Ishihara
Gambit
Mary Purcell, BTS
Stan Mengo
Greg Mengo
Zoe Ishihara
Genard Alouette
Jean-Luc LeBeau
Fontanelle
the New Son (/Sun)
Hole

Characters appearing in flashback (one year ago):
Shirow Ishihara
Zoe Ishihara

Characters appearing in dreamscrape flashback:
Sarah (Marrow)
Sabretooth
Gambit
Scalphunter (name revealed as Grey Crow, a man Gambit used to work 
at a diner with, referred to in dialogue in UX 323.)

Synopsis:  The Pig, draining Shirow Ishihara's mind-numbing mutant 
gases, dreams of building a world where he is respected, a world at 
peace.  The Mengos interrogate Zoe and Gambit, and a flashback reveals 
that she was excommunicated from the Tokyo Thieves' Guild for opposing 
their desire to use Shirow for his powers, much as the Pig is doing.  
Back at the Thieves' Guild, Jean-Luc worries about Gambit's safety and 
the dwindling state of the Guild itself.  Zoe is brought to the Pig's 
chief engineer, Hole, but breaks loose and blows up the main 
generators.  The explosion frees Gambit, and while Zoe frees Shirow 
and steals the Mengos' shuttle, Gambit faces down the Pig  throwing 
a canister of Shirow's mind-numbing gas in his face, making him 
docile and obedient.  Gambit then orders the Pig to walk off a cliff.  
He escapes with Zoe and Shirow, leaving the Mengos on a raft  and 
leaving Gambit with some closure for the death of his friend Etienne.

Meanwhile, Fontanelle dreamscrapes Scalphunter for more detail on the 
Morlock Massacre, and afterward she is brought face-to-face with the 
New Son for the first time

Notes:  The dreamscrape this issue sheds new light on the flashbacks 
in UX 350: Gambit's part in the Mutant Massacre.  Upon comparing UX 
350 with this issue and the original Mutant massacre comics, I found 
some minor errors in the MCP that I thought I'd address while placing 
the dreamscrape.

in UX 350-FB, Gambit gathers the Marauders together at the behest of 
Mr. Sinister.  He then helps them break into the Morlock tunnels, 
where they shock him by beginning to slaughter the Morlocks.  He 
confronts Sabretooth about it, who attacks him and leaves him for 
dead.  Recovering, Gambit seizes a young Marrow  one child among 
many  and flees.

In GAM3 7, we see Sabretooth about to kill young Marrow, but Gambit 
blindsides him and grabs her.  Rounding a corner, he runs into 
Scalphunter, who, as an old friend of Gambit's gives him safe passage 
to leave.

In UX 210, the Marauders chase a young Morlock named Tommy cross-
country.  Just when she thinks she's safe in the tunnels, they appear 
out of the shadows, killing her and beginning the Massacre.  
Originally, it looked like they just followed her in, but UX 350-FB 
shows that they needed Gambit to help find the entrance.  This 
suggests that Gambit was BTS in UX 210, and further, that UX 210 
fits in between the FBs of Gambit gathering the Marauders and Gambit 
confronting Sabretooth.

Now, the MCP states that Gambit was BTS in UX 212 and 213.  However, 
by UX 212, the Massacre itself was over, and the X-Men were left to 
scour the tunnels for survivors.  As Gambit fled while the Massacre 
was still going on, there was no way he could have been present for 
UX 212 and 213.  However, he was present, BTS, for UX 210.  (As was 
Sabreooth  as UX 350-FB shows Sabretooth walking behind Gambit as 
they break into the tunnels.  During UX 211's time-frame, however, 
Gambit and Sabretooth are likely having their first encounter  so 
Gambit was not necessarily "BTS" in UX 211, any more than Sabretooth 
was.  They were merely in a different part of the tunnels at the 
time.)

I believe the Mutant Masscare chronology should go as follows:
UX 350-FB  Gambit gathers Marauders
UX 210  Marauders attack Tommy in Los Angeles
UX 350-FB  Gambit shows the Marauders the entrance to the tunnels
UX 210  Marauders surprise and kill Tommy as she returns home
UX 211  slaughter begins
UX 350-FB  Gambit confronts Sabretooth, loses
GAM3 7-FB  Gambit blindsides Sabretooth, takes Marrow, confronts 
Scalphunter
UX 350-FB  Gambit flees with Marrow
XF 10  X-Factor becomes involved
UX 211  X-Men enter tunnels

and so on.  Being revulsed by the slaughter, Gambit would have 
fled early into the Massacre, not later on  and certainly not as 
late as UX 212 or 213.  My chronology has him showing them the way 
in, witnessing the beginning of the Massacre, grabbing Marrow, and 
leaving before things got worse  and before other characters like 
Scalphunter and Sabretooth got too mired in the details of their 
other appearances (ie Sabretooth is severely weakened by Plague in 
XF 10, etc).

UX 350-FB doesn't seem to appear in the chronologies of any of the 
Marauders that I looked at  but since the dreamscrape flashback 
only dealt with Sabretooth and Scalphunter, they're the only 
characters for which I'm pressing the UX 350-FB appearance for 
now.  However, Arclight, Harpoon, Scrambler, and Vertigo also 
appear in the first UX 350-FB (before UX 210).  (Technically, 
Malice appears in Polaris' body in that flashback  a pairing 
that didn't occur until UX 219  but the dialogue wisely names 
that character as Arclight.)  A good case could also be made that 
Prism and Blockbuster also appeared BTS in that flashback, as the 
dialogue says that the above Marauders were only "*some* of those 
[Gambit] assembled", and Prism at least is visible in the hazy 
memories Rogue has absorbed of that night in UX 349 (although the 
chain motif in that memory suggests allegory rather than canon 
flashback).

One final note, on Marrow's chronology: right now, the MCP has this 
listed:

C2 15-FB
UX 374-FB
UX 350-FB
UX 346-FB
X:PRIME

First of all, there is no FB in UX 346: it's a typo for issue 347.  
But even so, this chronology is basically backwards, and leaves out 
parts from many issues that have already been incorporated into the 
MCP.  Here's how the FBs should read:
UX 347-FB (a baby Marrow stares at Angel, captive of Callisto, from 
UX 169.)
*XU 18/2-FB (not on the MCP; a young Marrow cringes as the Morlock 
Massacre begins.)
*GAM3 7-FB (about to be killed by Sabretooth, Marrow is saved by 
Gambit)
UX 350-FB (Gambit flees with Marrow)
C2 15-FB (some years later, Marrow, back in the tunnels, is swept 
away by the flood in UX 293 to Mikhael Rasputin's other dimension.)
*C2 15 (not on the MCP  a still-young Marrow crosses over briefly 
to our world during Thornn's Ceremony of Light.)
UX 374-FB (back in that other world, Marrow comes of age and is 
cast down Mikhael's mountain, having to fight her way back up to 
survive.  By the time she reaches the summit, she is a hardened 
killer.)
X: PRIME (Marrow's first adult appearance, returning to our world.)

From there her MCP entry flows pretty much correctly.  I just wanted 
to take this opportunity to correct the part that I was dropping a 
FB into regardless.

So: Chronology:
- The Pig and Shirow Ishihara both appeared last in GAM3 6.  This 
is the final appearance for both of them.
- Gambit appeared last in GAM3 6, and next in GAM3@'99.
- Mary Purcell appeared last BTS in GAM3 6, then BTS in this issue, 
and next in GAM3@'99.
- Stan and Greg Mengo appeared last in GAM3 6, and next in GAM3 12.
- Zoe Ishihara appeared last in GAM3 6, and next in GAM3 16.
- This is the first appearance of Genard Alouette.  He appeared next 
in GAM3 16.
- Jean-Luc LeBeau appeared last in GAM3 6, and next in GAM3 10-BTS.
- Fontanelle appeared last in GAM3 6, and next in GAM3 8.
- The New Son (/Sun) appeared last in GAM3 5, and next in GAM3 8.
- This is the first, last, and only appearance for both Hole and 
Herr Kellig.

Flashback chronology:
This is the first chronological appearance for Zoe and Shirow 
Ishihara.  They both appeared next in GAM3 4.

Dreamscrape chronology:
- Sarah (Marrow) appeared last in UX 347-FB, then in XU 18/2-FB (both 
not on the MCP, as detailed above), then in this issue's dreamscrape, 
and next in UX 350-FB, and then C2 15-FB, then C2 15, then UX 374-FB, 
then X:PRIME (as detailed above).
- Sabretooth appeared last in PPSSM 119, then in UX 350-FB (being 
gathered), then in UX 210-BTS (entering the tunnels), then UX 350-FB 
again (attacking Gambit), then this issue's dreamscrape, and next in 
XF 10.
- Gambit appeared last in UX 350-FB (gathering the Marauders), then 
in UX 210-BTS (entering the tunnels), then UX 350-FB (attacked by 
Sabretooth), then this issue's dreamscrape, and next in UX 350-FB 
again (fleeing with Marrow).  He did not appear BTS in UX 212 or 213.
- Scalphunter appeared last in UX 215-FB, then in UX 350-FB (being 
gathered), then UX 210 (in Los Angeles), then, if you like, BTS in 
UX 350-FB (entering the tunnels), then UX 210 again (killing Tommy), 
then UX 211 (beginning the Massacre), then this issue's dreamscrape, 
then next in XF 10.

			*	*	*

Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT v.3 1999 Annual
Posted by Jeph! on February 20, 2001 at 16:57:25:

GAMBIT Vol. 3, 1999 Annual  September 1999
"With or Without You" by Fabian Nicieza and Walter McDaniel

Characters appearing:
Gambit
Marrow
Professor X
Moira MacTaggert
Rogue
Mary Purcell
The Beast
Kimberly Purcell

Characters appearing in flashback #1 (fourteen years ago):
Mary Purcell
Kimberly Purcell
Mary's mother (no name given)

Characters appearing in flashback #2 (Mary Purcell's early life, 
15-20 years ago)
Mary Purcell-BTS (in an ambulance)
Mary's parents (no names given)

Characters appearing in flashback #3 (Gambit's voice diary, between 
UX 350 and GAM3 0.5-FB):
Gambit

Characters appearing in flashback #4 (video log of Magneto's base, 
prior to UX 347):
Magneto
Ferris
Mary Purcell

Synopsis:  During training in the Danger Room, Gambit accidentally 
takes one of Marrow's bones through the chest.  He pulls it out and 
it explodes, and the X-Men find the wound is healed.  Professor X 
calls Moira in to consult, and they put Gambit through several 
medical tests.  Rogue recalls that on two prior occasions she's 
seen green smoke swirling out of him, and that is when Mary Purcell 
manifests in the medical bay.  She causes a synaptic overload in 
everyone present, possesses Gambit, and runs off in his body.  He 
awakens in Manhattan, Indiana, having flahbacks of her life and 
death, and starts trying to figure out who she is and how she died.  
Meanwhile, the X-Men return to Magneto's Antarctic base, trying to 
find clues to where Gambit may have picked up Mary.  They find his 
voice diary, and security videos of Magneto impersonating Erik the 
Red (from UX 350), and learn that Mary was living in the base in an 
energy form before Gambit found her.  Meanwhile, Gambit has learned 
that Mary Purcell was a mutant whose energy powers consumed her 
physical form  and that now she wants to merge herself with Gambit 
to create an offspring, an entirely new form of life!  The X-Men 
track Gambit down just as the merger is beginning, and together they 
fight Mary enough that her energy form begins to dissipate.  Gambit 
sticks a charged card up in the air, drawing her to him, and then 
puts it to his chest.  An explosion happens, and Mary is seemingly 
gone  the X-Men's machines can find no trace of her.  However, 
later, when Gambit and Rogue visit Mary's gravesite, his eyes, 
normally red, flicker green for a moment

Notes: Implications aside, this is the last time we will ever see 
or hear from Mary Purcell.  Her individuality and sentience died 
in this issue, regardless of what happened to Gambit, so I think 
we should stop her chronology right here instead of listing her 
BTS for every one of Gambit's future appearances.  (I mean, Karma's 
twin brother's psyche is living inside her to this day, and the MCP 
didn't grant *him * any BTS appearances once his sentience was 
subsumed)

Also: while trying to drop in the flashbacks following UX 350, I 
noticed that the MCP has X@'97 occuring between XU 18 and UX 361.  
This is impossible, because X@'97 has concurrent appearances of 
Gambit and Joseph as functioning X-Men, and between UX 350 and 361 
Gambit had been thrown out  in fact, the X-Men didn't even know if 
he was alive until UX 361, and by that time Joseph had long since 
departed the X-Men, in X 73, in the company of Sabra.  X@'97 must 
therefore occur sometime before the X-Men are shanghaid into space 
by Gladiator in UX 341.  For me, the sequence of issues during that 
time is as follows:
UX 340: Iceman leaves the X-men to care for his father, beaten at 
Graydon Creed's orders.
XF 130: Creed is assassinated.
X 60-61: a two-part story taking place over one day, shortly after 
Creed's murder.  Cannonball is still officially undercover in his 
campaign.
UX 341: Christmas Eve.  Cannonball, no longer undercover, fights 
Gladiator, who spirits half the X-men, including Gambit, to the 
other side of the galaxy.

As Cannonball is back home at the mansion in X@'97, it seems that 
he is done with his undercover work, so I am placing the annual 
between X 61 and UX 341.  Most of these issues fall into the second 
gap, but as X@'97 seems to be already posted, I feel it's okay to 
nitpick.  In the summations below, I only note the change for 
characters I am already discussing (ie the Beast, Gambit, and 
Rogue), but the issue also featured appearances by Archangel, 
Bishop, Cannonball II, Cyclops, Iceman, the Gamesmaster, Joseph, 
Phoenix IV, Storm, Trish Tilby, and Wolverine (Bastion's appearance 
on television was only a telepathic illusion), and eventually X@'97 
should be moved back in their chronologies as well.

Further, in that same spot in Gambit's listing, you have GAM2 2 
followed by XU 18.  These should be reversed; Gambit is still trapped 
in the Antarctic in XU 18, while in the GAM2 series he is back in 
America, dealing with heaven and hell while still cast out from the 
X-Men.  This change is also noted in the summations below.

So: Chronology:
- Gambit appeared last in GAM3 7, and next in UX 372.
- Marrow and Professor X both appeared last in W2 140, and next in 
UX 372.
- Moira MacTaggert appeared last in MR 1, and next in UXM 375.
- Rogue appeared last in X@'99, and next in UX 372.
- Mary Purcell appeared last in GAM3 7, BTS.  This is her last 
appearance as a separate individual.
- The Beast appeared last in X 88, and next in UX 375.
- Kimberly Purcell appeared last in GAM3 6.  This is her final 
appearance.

Chronology: Flashbacks #1 and 2:
- Mary Purcell's first appearance is BTS in this issue's FB #2.  
She then appeared in this issue's FB #1, and next in GAM3 6-FB.
- Kimberly Purcell's first appearance is this issue's FB #1.  She 
appeared next in GAM3 6-FB.

Chronology: flashback #3:
- Gambit appeared last in UX 350, then in this issue's flashback, 
then in GAM3 0.5-FB, then in XU 18, then next in GAM3 0.5, then next 
in UX 361-FB-BTS (his and Courier's footprints  not on the MCP), 
then in GAM2 1-4, then next in UX 361.

Chronology: flashback #4:
- Magneto appeared last in X 86-FB, and next in UX 347-BTS.
- This is Ferris's first appearance.  He appeared next in UX 350.
- Mary Purcell appeared last in GAM3 6-FB, and next in GAM3 0.5-FB-BTS, 
and from then on appeared BTS in all of Gambit's appearances until 
this issue's main story.

			*	*	*

Aw dammit.
Posted by Jeph! on February 20, 2001 at 17:14:15:

Why is it every time I post a big work to the MCP, there's invariably 
at least one mistake in it?

This time, when writing up my combined MCP-style chronology list for 
GAM3 6, 7, and @'99, I left out Magneto and Ferris' appearances, 
along with a point I wanted to make about Magneto: his appearance 
in UX 349 was *not * BTS  we see his arm, and we hear him speak.  
He is present in that issue.

			*	*	*

Punisher correction
Posted by Andy Holcombe on February 21, 2001 at 18:32:45:

I believe that Punisher #51 immediately follows #50 due to some 
dialoge on page one describing that the action in issue fifty gave 
Frank a taste for this particular Chinese restaurant.

			*	*	*

Mr. Fantastic page
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 25, 2001 at 19:45:05:

It's time to trim down some of our larger pages again, and I'll be 
adding a separate page for Mr. Fantastic soon to lower the bandwidth 
of the M page.

I'm looking for suggestions on an appropriate graphic for the new 
page. Can you suggest an issue, page and panel number that shows 
Reed in the best spotlight?

Word balloons are fine--actually, they're kind of preferred--but 
the words must be self-contained in the panel, and ideally, give 
you the flavor of the character. For examples, check out Captain 
America, Scarlet Witch, Mary Jane Watson, Punisher, Magik, and Dr. 
Strange, to name a few, already on our site.

If the panel is drawn by an artist usually connected in the public's 
mind with the character, that's a plus, but not a requirement.

			*	*	*

Re: Mr. Fantastic page
Posted by SKleefeld on March 01, 2001 at 09:28:27:
In Reply to: Mr. Fantastic page
posted by Russ Chappell on February 25, 2001 at 19:45:05:

Hmmm... This one's a lot tougher than Shulkie. Reed's so closely 
associated with the FF, it's hard to find a decent shot of him 
being somewhat in character without it being a head-shot of him 
playing Mr. Exposition.

The best one I've found so far is the pin-up from FF #250. IIRC, 
there was also a pin-up from the FF: Special Edition that might 
work, but I don't have that handy to verify that.

Coincidentally, they're both Byrne shots. 

Sean

			*	*	*

Re: Mr. Fantastic page
Posted by Russ Chappell on March 01, 2001 at 22:06:47:
In Reply to: Re: Mr. Fantastic page
posted by SKleefeld on March 01, 2001 at 09:28:27:

Reed spouting a lot of techno-jargon may be just what we need, 
if we come to the conclusion that it's what best captures his 
character...

			*	*	*

Re: Mr. Fantastic page
Posted by SKleefeld on March 02, 2001 at 07:52:40:
In Reply to: Re: Mr. Fantastic page
posted by Russ Chappell on March 01, 2001 at 22:06:47:

Ah, but the trick is finding a full body image of him spouting 
techno-jargon. Plenty of head-shots in that vein, but I don't 
think you'd be too interested in a floating head. That pretty 
much went out with the 60s!  :)

Sean

			*	*	*

Storm Page
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 25, 2001 at 19:47:38:

It's time to trim down some of our larger pages again, and I'll be 
adding a separate page for Storm soon to lower the bandwidth of the 
S page.

I'm looking for suggestions on an appropriate graphic for the new 
page. Can you suggest an issue, page and panel number that shows 
Ororo in the best spotlight?

Word balloons are fine--actually, they're kind of preferred--but the 
words must be self-contained in the panel, and ideally, give you the 
flavor of the character. For examples, check out Captain America, 
Scarlet Witch, Mary Jane Watson, Punisher, Magik, and Dr. Strange, to 
name a few, already on our site.

If the panel is drawn by an artist usually connected in the public's 
mind with the character, that's a plus, but not a requirement.

			*	*	*

Re: Storm Page
Posted by hriff99 on February 26, 2001 at 16:45:11:
In Reply to: Storm Page
posted by Russ Chappell on February 25, 2001 at 19:47:38:

How about X-Men #62 (Mar 97). On the 10th page of actual story and 
art, the second panel shows Ororo in full glory complete with 
lightning bolts and no dialogue box. Excellent story but Logan 
should have had more trouble with Shang Chi!

			*	*	*

She-Hulk Page
Posted by Russ Chappell on February 25, 2001 at 19:48:46:

It's time to trim down some of our larger pages again, and I'll be 
adding a separate page for She-Hulk soon to lower the bandwidth of 
the S page.

I'm looking for suggestions on an appropriate graphic for the new 
page. Can you suggest an issue, page and panel number that shows 
Jennifer in the best spotlight?

Word balloons are fine--actually, they're kind of preferred--but the 
words must be self-contained in the panel, and ideally, give you the 
flavor of the character. For examples, check out Captain America, 
Scarlet Witch, Mary Jane Watson, Punisher, Magik, and Dr. Strange, 
to name a few, already on our site.

If the panel is drawn by an artist usually connected in the public's 
mind with the character, that's a plus, but not a requirement.

			*	*	*

Re: She-Hulk Page
Posted by SKleefeld on March 01, 2001 at 09:10:41:
In Reply to: She-Hulk Page
posted by Russ Chappell on February 25, 2001 at 19:48:46:

I would have to go with the covers of either She-Hulk #40 or 43. 
Both highlight Jen's light-hearted nature, as well as her often 
blatant enjoyment of her sexuality. Plus, they're both Byrne covers, 
and he's closely associated with re-invigorating her character.

Sean

			*	*	*

Re: She-Hulk Page
Posted by Lee K. Seitz on March 09, 2001 at 13:36:51:
In Reply to: She-Hulk Page
posted by Russ Chappell on February 25, 2001 at 19:48:46:

> I'm looking for suggestions on an appropriate graphic for the 
new page. Can you suggest an issue, page and panel number that shows 
Jennifer in the best spotlight?

How about that issue that starts out with her jumping rope in the 
nude? 8) 8) 8)

Lee "being totally unhelpful now that he left the MCP board" Seitz

			*	*	*

Re: She-Hulk Page
Posted by Russ Chappell on March 13, 2001 at 20:25:11:
In Reply to: Re: She-Hulk Page
posted by Lee K. Seitz on March 09, 2001 at 13:36:51:

How about that issue that starts out with her jumping rope in the 
nude? 8) 8) 8)

Be careful what you ask for, cause you just...might...get it.

			*	*	*

Re: She-Hulk Page
Posted by Nathanael Nerode on June 20, 2002 at 21:10:51:
In Reply to: She-Hulk Page
posted by Russ Chappell on February 25, 2001 at 19:48:46:

> I'm looking for suggestions on an appropriate graphic for the 
new page. Can you suggest an issue, page and panel number that shows 
Jennifer in the best spotlight?

My absolute *favorite* is the poster which shows her jogging, with 
earphones attached to a bandstand holding a live band, which she is 
carrying above her head.

Perhaps the panel in the graphic novel "The Sensational She-Hulk" 
where she says "I'm six feet tall and bright green.  People are 
going to stare no matter what I wear." (from memory).

			*	*	*

Minor Housekeeping (Pt. 2)
Posted by Jhaeman on February 26, 2001 at 03:07:31:

Nit-picky stuff:

1.  Bird, Tuesday has "Archangel" which presumably refers to the 
one-shot of a few years back, but needs to be added to the key.

2.  The comics under Bucky II shouldn't be in bold.

And from the Crappy Character Calvacade:

3.  Ranark the Ravager appeared in Marvel Two-In-One # 84

4.  Scavenger appeared in Man-Thing # 21

5.  Crime-Buster appeared in Nova (first ser.) # 13

			*	*	*

Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT Wizard #One-Half and the 
CyberComic
Posted by Jeph! on February 27, 2001 at 21:39:47:

While I'm on my Gambit kick, I thought I would write up the Wizard 
Gambit #0.5 Special, as well as the earlier-discussed Gambit 
CyberComic.  Neither of these has officially been recognized as 
official Marvel canon by the MCP, but they've both been referenced 
in footnotes and are relatively important parts of the ongoing Gambit 
v3 storyline.

Can you tell I'm supposed to be doing other things?  : )
        -Jeph!

---

GAMBIT vol.3 #0.5  Wizard Special Edition
"Between Daze" by Fabian Nicieza and Pascual Ferry

Characters appearing:
Gambit (Remy LeBeau)
Courier (Jacob Gavin, Jr.)
Mary Purcell
the High Evolutionary (BTS)
Characters appearing in flashback (post-UX 350):
Gambit
Rogue (in X-Jet)
(other X-Men possibly, in X-Jet, never specified)
Mary Purcell (BTS)
The New Sun (/Son, BTS)

Synopsis:
The story opens with Gambit fighting a T-Rex in the Savage Land.  As 
he escapes, flashbacks reveal how, after the X-Men abandoned him in 
Magneto's base in UX 350, they came back to look for him (or, at 
least, Rogue did), but he hid  he didn't want to be found.  After 
they left, he found "something" that kept him alive, gave him energy, 
and gave him the strength to try to walk out of Antarctica himself.  
Unfortunately, it wasn't enough, and he passed out in the snow, only 
to awaken in warmth with three of the New Sun's Shadowtechs staring 
at him.  They told him that they had saved his life, and he owed them 
a favor: breaking into the High Evolutionary's citadel to retrieve 
something of theirs.  As Remy infiltrates the citadel, fighting off 
evolved insect guards, he finds the "something" the Shadowtechs sent 
him for: a captive Courier, morphed into the shape of a Savage Land 
native  a woman, to boot.  Remy frees him(her?), and as they fight 
off insects, Mary Purcell manifests in human form for the first time, 
shocking Gambit.  She speaks of a "deal" between them, knocks out all 
the insects, and flows back inside Gambit.  Shaken, Gambit help 
Courier retrieve plans for an enormous terraformer, using retinal 
pattern access supplied to the New Sun by the High Evolutionary.  
As Courier turns to leave, he asks Gambit whether he'll join the 
New Sun's crusade to bring peace to earth, or whether the Shadowtechs 
can just deposit him back in the snow where they found him

Notes: Although this issue only shows shots of the X-Jet circling, 
looking for Gambit, later issues of UX make it clear that Rogue was 
the one who spearheaded the search, hence an "appearance" for her 
in this issue.  Other X-Men may have been on the Jet, but no issue 
before or since has mentioned anyone else's presence but Rogue's.  
Also, since Bastion robbed the X-men of all their possessions prior 
to UX 350, Rogue's return visit to Antarctica would have to wait 
until after UX 353, when Iceman discovers the old X-Jet submerged 
in the lake  and between Sauron's attack in UX 353 and 354 and 
Rogue's subsequent trip to the Agee Institute in UX 354 and 355, 
Rogue's next free moment after that would be between UX 355 and 
X 73.

Also, since Courier mentioned that the High Evolutionary had made 
a deal with the New Sun, giving him retinal patterns that would 
allow access to the terraformer plans, it seems right to grant the 
Evolutionary a BTS appearance in this issue.  Given that the issue 
must take place after UX 355, I placed the Evolutionary's deal with 
the New Sun between his appearances in KZ4 12-14, during which time 
he was hiding out in the Savage Land, and QS 8, where he left the 
Savage Land for Wundagore.

Also, as it was revealed that the New Sun powers the Shadowtechs  
that they are merely empty suits filled with and animated by his 
biokinetic powers  in essence, they are extensions of him  then 
the Shadowtechs' appearance in this issue's flashback should be 
considered a BTS appearance of the New Sun himself.

Also, this isue's flashback spans from UX 350 to the start of the 
issue itself.  The only other issue to fit into this gap is XU 18, 
which detailed Gambit's hallucinations as he vainly tried to walk 
out of Antarctica.  At the end of that issue he collapsed in the 
snow, and a dogsled rider, clearly human, was approaching him.  As 
the flashback in this issue shows us, Gambit was revived by the 
Shadowtechs, clearly *not * human  but when he got to the 
Evolutionary's citadel, Courier seemed to know that he'd be 
coming.  My take on these events is that Courier was the dogsledder 
in XU 18 who found Gambit, brought him back to the Shadowtechs' 
ship, and continued on to the Savage Land.  When the 'Techs lost 
contact with Courier, they revived Gambit and sent him to rescue 
him.  So, all of that means that Courier should be credited with 
an appearance  his first  in XU 18 (although this is most likely 
not what XU writer Tom DeFalco had in mind when he wrote that 
scene).

And finally, there is a flashback in UX 361 that shows two sets 
of footprints crossing the Filchner ice shelf in Antarctica.  It 
was meant to build suspense  who did Gambit meet that helped him 
escape?  Well, now we have our answer: Courier.  Mary Purcell was 
still sentient energy inside Gambit at that point and couldn't 
"walk", so Gambit walked away from Magneto's base alone (one set 
of prints).  He then passed out, was saved by a dogsledder (lots 
of prints) revived elsewhere, and went to the savage Land alone  
but when he came out of the Savage Land, returning to the 
Shadowtechs' ship, he had Courier with him.  Two sets of footprints, 
and evidence that the FB in UX 361 dhould be placed directly after 
the end of this issue.  Unfortunately, because it's only a picture 
of footprints, Gambit and Courier can only be ascribed BTS roles 
to the flashback  sort of like "Gambit was here".

----

GAMBIT vol. 3 CYBERCOMIC  available briefly at www.marvel.com
(suggested MCP listing: GAM3CC)

Characters appearing:
Gambit
Sekmeht Conaway
Spat
Grovel

Synopsis:  From memory, now, Gambit is after a mythical gem called 
the Tomorrow Stone in order to save his old acquaintance Spat from 
the reverse-aging disorder that has recently sped up and now 
threatens to kill her.  Sekmeht Conaway is after the Tomorrow 
Stone to travel back in time and save her dead mother.  Spat 
and Grovel are after Gambit to make sure he completes the mission.  
The Tomorrow Stone only has enough juice for one use.  Lots of 
animated Indiana-Jones-style hijinks occur, and in the end Sekmeht 
decides that Spat, who is still alive, deserves to live more than 
her monther, who is already dead.  Gambit uses the chronal energies 
of the Tomorrow Stone to either stabilize Spat at the age she is 
now, or just slow her reverse-aging down to the 1-1 rate it used 
to be at.

Notes:  Not having the comic to reference, I can't tell you specific 
things such as whether or not there were any internal flashbacks.  
I can tell you that the cybercomic was a complete story on its own, 
and didn't feature any flashbacks to events outside itself (say, to 
three years ago or the like).  But one footnote that I remember 
clearly stated that the cybercomic (which came out around the same 
time as GAM3 1) took place after Gambit's encounter with Fenris in 
issue #9.  (Marvel's scheduling of the Shattering crossover in 8 
and 9 pushed Fenris up to #10, but the footnote's intent is clear.)  
Due to conversation in GAM3 12, the cybercomic has to occur before 
that issue  so I am placing it between GAM3 10 and 11, neither of 
which are on the MCP.  However, in the big picture, all those issues 
take place between X 98 and UX 379, due to a story point of the 
Shattering: that Gambit went straight back to the mansion in UX 375 
with the item he got from Sinister in GAM3 9.  Also, there are no 
story breaks for the entirety of the Twelve arc (UX 375 to X 98).  
UX 379 picks up a bit later, with everyone just getting over 
Cyclops' death, and GAM3 10, CC, and 11 will fit nicely into the 
gap between those issues.  (According to an assistant editor's 
comment in the letters page, GAM3 12-14 are also supposed to take 
place before UX 379  and that's where they currently are on the 
MCP  but this is conclusively disproved by story points in GAM3 
15 that show that Gambit had been missing from the X-Men for three 
months during issues 12-14  therefore those issues [as well as 
the wrap-ups in 15 and 16] fit best into the six-month gap that 
follows UX 380.)

Also, Grovel and Spat were last seen in UX 350 at the Trial of 
Gambit.  They have never been seen since, and hopefully will 
never be seen again.

----

So: Combined chronology for both special issues.

There is a small change from the chronology I just posted that 
combined GAM3 6, 7, and @'99: in it, I had XU 18 flow straight 
into GAM3 0.5, but there is a portion of GAM3 0.5-FB that occurs 
after XU 18: namely, waking up in the care of the Shadowtechs.  
I have marked this change above with a -* notation, and this 
change also occurs in the chronology of Mary Purcell, below.

CONAWAY, SEKMEHT

(GAM3 10)
*GAM3CC
GAM3 12

COURIER / JACOB "JACQUELINE" GAVIN, JR.
*XU 18
*GAM3 0.5
*UX 361-FB-BTS
GAM3 1


GAMBIT / REMY LeBEAU

UX 350
*GAM3 0.5-FB
XU 18
-*GAM3 0.5-FB
*GAM3 0.5
-UX 361-FB-BTS
(GAM2 1)
GAM2 2

X 98
(GAM3 10)
*GAM3CC
(GAM3 11)
UX 379


THE HIGH EVOLUTIONARY / HERBERT EDGAR WYNDHAM

KZ4 14
*GAM3 0.5-BTS
QS 8


THE NEW SUN

GAM3 24-FB
*GAM3 0.5-FB-BTS
GAM3 5


PURCELL, MARY

GAM3@'99-FB
*GAM3 0.5-FB-BTS
XU 18
-*GAM3 0.5-FB-BTS
*GAM3 0.5
-UX 361-FB-BTS
(GAM2 1-BTS)
GAM2 2-BTS


ROGUE

UX 355
*GAM3 0.5-FB
X 73


SPAT

UX 350
*GAM3CC

			*	*	*

That one mistake I always make:
Posted by Jeph! on February 27, 2001 at 21:52:12:
In Reply to: Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT Wizard #One-Half 
and the CyberComic
posted by Jeph! on February 27, 2001 at 21:39:47:

But of course, Mary Purcell's appearance in XU 18 was behind-the-
scenes only.

> PURCELL, MARY
> 
> GAM3@'99-FB
> *GAM3 0.5-FB-BTS
> XU 18**-BTS!**    <--
> -*GAM3 0.5-FB-BTS
> *GAM3 0.5
> -UX 361-FB-BTS
> (GAM2 1-BTS)
> GAM2 2-BTS
> 

	-Jeph!
hey, am I message #350?  :)

			*	*	*

:P
Posted by Jeph! on February 27, 2001 at 21:56:03:
In Reply to: That one mistake I always make:
posted by Jeph! on February 27, 2001 at 21:52:12:

> hey, am I message #350?  :)

Err.  650.  And I was.  Hurrah.

I think it's time I logged off now.  Sorry, Russ.

	-Jeph, embarassing himself

P.S.:  I promise this will be the last time I mention the dreaded 
name "Mary Purcell" of my own volition.  I'm tired of that green 
energy lady.  Bo-ring.

			*	*	*

Re: Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT Wizard #One-Half and the 
CyberComic
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 28, 2001 at 04:46:18:
In Reply to: Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT Wizard #One-Half 
and the CyberComic
posted by Jeph! on February 27, 2001 at 21:39:47:

The usual stunning work, and only one comment:-

<<So, all of that means that Courier should be credited with an 
appearance  his first  in XU 18 (although this is most likely 
not what XU writer Tom DeFalco had in mind when he wrote that 
scene).>>

It won't be Courier's first appearance.  He was a bit part player 
in Nicieza's miniseries Deadpool: The Circle Chase back in the 
early nineties.

			*	*	*

Courier
Posted by Jeph! on February 28, 2001 at 11:27:52:
In Reply to: Re: Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT Wizard 
#One-Half and the CyberComic
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 28, 2001 at 04:46:18:

> The usual stunning work

Hey, thanks!

>and only one comment:- [XU 18] won't be Courier's first appearance.  
He was a bit part player in Nicieza's miniseries Deadpool: The Circle 
Chase back in the early nineties.

Hey, you're right.  Courier appeared in DPOOL #1-3, all of which, 
at late 93, are firmly in the middle of the Gap.

Speaking of Courier and the Gap, however, it's worth noting that 
Jacob Gavin Jr. is actually Courier II -- a Wolverine serial in 
MCP #123-130 (also in 1993) introduced us to a 60something German 
operative named Hans Middlesteadt, enhanced with electrical blasts, 
also named Courier.  At the end of the series he teamed up with Le 
Peregrine and vanished into comics obscurity, however, he does have 
claim to being Courier #1 as far as the MCP is concerned.

Although Wolverine stated in GAM3 1 that he knew Courier II's 
father (presumably Jacob Gavin, Senior), it is highly unlikely 
that Hans Middlesteadt is the father of Jacob Gavin Jr. and the 
founder of Courier, Inc.  He's just an unrelated character named 
Courier, and Wolverine knows lots of people.

	-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Re: Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT Wizard #One-Half and the 
CyberComic
Posted by Jhaeman on February 28, 2001 at 14:15:56:
In Reply to: Unnecessarily long write-up of GAMBIT Wizard #One-Half 
and the CyberComic
posted by Jeph! on February 27, 2001 at 21:39:47:

What's the official verdict on the earlier debate as to whether or 
not cyber-comics are canon?  My unsolicited vote would still be no, 
but regardless, I really appreciate all the work you're doing Jeph!
