X-Men, Badoon & Brood
Posted by StAkAr Karnak on February 01, 2004 at 07:27:57:

Since there seem to be so many X-fans on this board, I'm hoping someone will know this.

There was an alliance between the Badoon & the Brood shown in CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS II, but I hear there was also such an alliance in X-Men a while back. This may have had something to do with Phoenix and the Shi'ar, but I don't know. Can anyone say what books the Badoon/Brood alliance appeared in? Also, has any of this material been TPB'd?

- SK 

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BRAHMA...BUCKY...LUKE CAGE
Posted by Arthur Stein on February 01, 2004 at 09:12:25:

new entries marked **


BRAHMA

**T 301
T2 61
T2 65 


BUCKY/JAMES BUCHANAN "BUCKY" BARNES

**TOS 63/2 I do not have CA:SL2 12 so I am just guessing here. If the following 5 FBs are of Bucky pre-1941 then this should FOLLOW them. If these are the same as the FBs entered under Caps chronology, which FOLLOW CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1, then TOS 63/2 would precede them
Bucky is shown discovering Steve Rogers changing into Captain America and Cap agrees to train him and take him on as partner. May be redundant to CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1, but as I dont have that one either.
Later in TOS 63/2 (months later), Bucky gets his uniform and goes on his first mission. 
CA:SL2 12-FB
CA:SL2 12-FB
CA:SL2 12-FB
CA:SL2 12-FB
CA:SL2 12-FB

CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6

.. .. .. .. ..

CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22
INV 29-FB
**TOS 64/2 America is still at peacethough not for much longer. Might be before INV 29-FB which occurs late 1941
**TOS 65/2 Also 1941
**TOS 67/2 states that 65/2 occurred last month
** TOS 68/2
GSINV 1

.. .. .. .. ..

CA3 32-FB
** TOS 69/2
**TOS 70/2
**TOS 71/2
CA:SL2 12-FB
CA:SL2 12-FB


Additionally re TOS 63/2  TOS 68/2

. . .CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 

. . .CA COMICS 1
. . .CA COMICS 1/2
. . .CA COMICS 1/3
. . .**TOS 63/2 retells Caps origin, Bucky learning his secret , and their first mission together. As mentioned above I do not have CA COMICS 1, so I cannot REALLY place this correctly or even tell if it is new material. But as Bucky is not listed for CA COMICS 1, Im guessing he wasnt there, so these might be new flashbacks.
. . .CA:SL2 6/3-BTS
. . .INV 29-FB
. . .**TOS 64/2 America is still at peacethough not for much longer. Might be before INV 29-FB which occurs late 1941
. . .**TOS 65/2 Also 1941 (2p1) plus Were not yet at war with the nazis (2p3)
. . .****The following three entries relocated from current MCP placement which has them in what looks like 1944
. . .*TOS 66/2 65/2 occurred last month
. . .*TOS 67/2
. . .*TOS 68/2
. . .GSINV 1

.. .. .. .. ..

. . .M/U 3
. . .(TOS 66/2 **** Relocated to late 1941)
. . .(TOS 67/2 **** Relocated to late 1941)
. . .(TOS 68/2 **** Relocated to late 1941)
. . .TOS 69/2


. . .DUFFY, SGT. MIKE

. . .TOS 64/2
. . .**TOS 65/2 unnamed (17p2  17p3)
. . .TOS 68/2



CAGE, LUKE/CARL LUCAS

LCHFH 16
**IM 65 Placed before PM 17 because in PM 17 we see Tony Stark (16p1) summoned back from Detroitafter his battle withDr Spectrum. i,e, after IM 66 (also theres an editors note, for what their worth, stating that Iron Man would be guesting in a future issue of Powerman).
PM 17

This one was left over because it causes a small problem as Iron mans appearance in PM 17 is listed is his own chronology much earlierfollowing IM 56. 

I propose...

IRON MAN/TONY STARK
A 119
IM 55
IM 56
(PM 17 **** removed)
CM 27
CM 28
CM 29-BTS
CM 30
M/FEA 12
A 119
DEF 13-FB
IM 57
IM 58
IM 59
IM 60
IM 61
IM 62
IM 63
IM 64
IM 65
IM 66
**PM 17 **** relocated
IM 67

No other listed characters in PM 17 to worry about.
However in PM 17 we see Luke reading a Daily Bugle with the headline Captain America Defeats Phoenix, a reference to CA 168. CA 168 is in Caps chronology as happening mid A 119 (?). (Iron mans PM 17 is mid A 119 also). Shifting PM 17 could be considered as moving it too far from A 119 in IMs chronology for the newspaper to be considered current. 
Either postulate that Luke was reading an old paper (not entirely beyond belief, but I feel his reaction to the news gives a flavour of more currency to it)
Or move CA 168 further along the line to just prior to CA 169. This moves it past A 119 and thus shortens the gap between Caps Phoenix encounter and Lukes reading the newspaper story. I see nothing relating to Cap that forces it to be earlier and the chronologies of other characters in CA 168 (Falcon and Zeno II) would be unaffected.
Thus

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS

DEF 11
A 119
(CA 168 **** removed)
CM 27
CM 28
CM 29-BTS
A 119
DEF 13-FB
**CA 168 **** relocated
CA 169

Also, In IM 65 Luke receives a telegram from DR. KINJI OBATU. As this adds knowledge into his character (racist) and maybe his thoughts, I was wondering if it was a FB-BTS thing, If so

DR. SPECTRUM II/DR. KINJI OBATU

IM 63
**IM 65-FB-BTS
IM 64


Note to newcomers. Just to explain what my postings areas an avid Marvelist I had my own version of this Marvel Chronology Project (MCP). I am now comparing the two, and for all character entries in the MCP, I am checking if I have any appearances that may have been overlooked. Validating them. Chronologizing them. Posting them (so others have an opportunity to refute or comment). The aim... to help in the completeness of this magnificent piece of information engineering! 



#153 

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A reminder on policy
Posted by Administrator on February 01, 2004 at 10:57:52:

I've been poring over posts from August 2003, updating chronologies where I can, in preparation for moving old messages to the archive, and I've run across an inordinate number of messages which seem to be straying from basic concepts of chronological analysis here. I want to remind everyone about a couple of the rules that we all need to follow.

1. Don't *expect* your reshufflings of character chronologies to be reflected here, if you don't have *all* the books you're asking us to move. This should be a no-brainer. An exception is extended for those books that have been analyzed with extensive annotations here on the posting board, provided by such luminaries as Kevin and Paul O'Brien, among others.

2. I'm finding way too many leaps of logic that make no sense in the reading. ("Web of Spider-Man 39 takes place after Avengers #212, therefore Fantastic Four #297 must occur before Vision and Scarlet Witch #6"). That may be true, and it may be readily apparent to you, but it's not to me. This falls under the category of "I'm right; you're wrong; change it". When suggesting reshufflings, read your message before you post it. Make sure your logic flows, that A connects to B, and B connects to C. Assume I'm stupid.

Oh, and 3. No posts about where to get prescription drugs.

			*	*	*

Clarification
Posted by Administrator on February 01, 2004 at 11:04:17:
In Reply to: A reminder on policy 
posted by Administrator on February 01, 2004 at 10:57:52:

> 1. Don't *expect* your reshufflings of character chronologies to be reflected here, if you don't have *all* the books you're asking us to move. This should be a no-brainer. An exception is extended for those books that have been analyzed with extensive annotations here on the posting board, provided by such luminaries as Kevin and Paul O'Brien, among others.

Let me clarify something about this one. I don't want anyone to think that I'm squelching *suggestions* on reshufflings. That's why I stressed the word "expect". If your suggestion can start a dialog on the subject, by the conclusion of which a consensus is reached, it'll carry a lot more weight.

			*	*	*

Battler
Posted by Jeff Drake on February 01, 2004 at 11:52:10:

Is Daniel Axum--The Battler-- from the last issues of Thunderbolts a character that was created for that series or does he have earlier appearances in the marvel Universe? 

I ask because I like the character and would like to get ahold of his appearances and this is the best place to look 

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Re: Battler
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 01, 2004 at 17:02:59:
In Reply to: Battler 
posted by Jeff Drake on February 01, 2004 at 11:52:10:

He's an original character created for THUNDERBOLTS. 

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Corrections: Tante Mattie, Stone, Sabretooth
Posted by David Hall on February 01, 2004 at 11:56:58:

Corrections:

TANTE MATTIE/MATTIE BAPTISTE
GAM3 12-FB
**GAM 3 (First App.!)
**GAM 4
R 2
**R 3
**R 4
**GAM 2 1
GAM2 2 (in wrong place in MCP)
**GAM 2 4
GAM3 2
GAM3 4
GAM3 17
GAM3 19
GAM3 21
GAM3 22


STONECOLD/
XF 137
XF 138

This character is never referred to as stone cold in these issues, just Stone.

Sabretooth

I believe that Mav2 6 and 7 should be moved up, to be placed between XF 142 and W2 126. There is no mention of Sabretooth being enhanced(as in W 126-128) And dialogue in MAV 2 5 states that Its unfortunate that the X-Factor compound was declared a biohazard zone and put under strict quarantine before I had a chance to check it out Wherever (Sabretooth) he is, hes done a good job of covering his tracks since he left Falls Edge, Virginia. This implies that the X-Factor compound was made off limits recently, and would make no sense if Maverick 5-7 happened as late as it is listed in Sabretooths entry (why reference Mackie's X-Factor plots unless they were recent?) So:

Sabretooth
XU 17-FB
XU 17
XF 142
**MAV2 6
**MAV2 7
W2 126
W2 127
W2 128
(MAV2 6) (delete)
(MAV2 7) (delete)
W2 145

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Re: Corrections: Tante Mattie, Stone, Sabretooth
Posted by Administrator on February 01, 2004 at 12:46:05:
In Reply to: Corrections: Tante Mattie, Stone, Sabretooth 
posted by David Hall on February 01, 2004 at 11:56:58:

> Sabretooth

I don't find your evidence compelling enough.

> I believe that Mav2 6 and 7 should be moved up, to be placed between XF 142 and W2 126. There is no mention of Sabretooth being enhanced(as in W 126-128) 

Beware placement based on missing evidence. No mention of Sabretooth being enhanced means only that. I don't think you can draw the conclusion that he's *not* enhanced.

> And dialogue in MAV 2 5 states that Its unfortunate that the X-Factor compound was declared a biohazard zone and put under strict quarantine before I had a chance to check it out Wherever (Sabretooth) he is, hes done a good job of covering his tracks since he left Falls Edge, Virginia. This implies that the X-Factor compound was made off limits recently, 

I don't infer that. "Since he left Fall's Edge," could imply any range of time. Last week, or five years ago.

> and would make no sense if Maverick 5-7 happened as late as it is listed in Sabretooths entry (why reference Mackie's X-Factor plots unless they were recent?)

I don't know *why*, as I have no idea what's on the writer's mind, but I know that plots don't have to be recent to be referenced.

Mind you, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just looking for a stronger case, before I make changes.

			*	*	*

Sabreooth
Posted by David Hall on February 01, 2004 at 13:38:55:
In Reply to: Re: Corrections: Tante Mattie, Stone, Sabretooth 
posted by Administrator on February 01, 2004 at 12:46:05:

Russ,


I would argue that the line 

Its unfortunate that the X-Factor compound was declared a biohazard zone and put under strict quarantine before I had a chance to check it out

does imply that this was a recent event. In MAV 1-3 Elena had no knowledge of Sabretooth being placed with X-Factor, she couldn't find anything about his whereabouts. To me, I accept this as implying that X-factor only recently went underground. (Your opinion may vary, naturally)

If it wasnt a fairly recent event though, why would this statement be relevant to finding Creeds location?


Pub. date on X-Factor 142 (Sabretooth's last X-factor app.) is Feb-98
Pub. date on Maverick 6 is Feb-98.

Publication date on W2 126 is Jul 98.

This implies that Maverick 6 and 7, were meant to come after X-Factor 142, and that W2 126 is his next appearance.

Circumstantial evidence, sure, but I tend to accept publication order, unless there is compelling evidence otherwise.

Also in Mav 6-7 Sabretooth is hiding in the NYC tunnels. This answers the question of where he went after X-Factor 142 nicely. It makes sense for Creed to go to ground and hide after X-fac 142.

There is no explicit statement stating this issue happens before such and such, so all we can go by is the preponderance of circumstantial evidence.

Dave

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Sue Storm appearance & a Daredevil question
Posted by RLG on February 01, 2004 at 20:34:08:

Sue appears in DAREDEVIL (v.1) #38 (5p2), as Daredevil (his mind transfered in Dr.Doom's body at the end of DD#36) sends a radio message to the FF warning them of Dr.Doom's (who's mind, in turn, has been transfered to Daredevil's body) plan. The story in this issue continues straight into FANTASTIC FOUR (v.1) #73.

Given that Sue was on a leave of absense due to her pregnancy at the time, it is entirely possible that her appearance is an artistic error. In the appearance, only her head and top of her costume is seen over Reed's right shoulder AND she has no dialogue. Also, in the previous panel, Reed, Ben, and Johnny are the only one's seen entering the communications room.

In a somewhat related matter, the placement of the FF's appearance in DAREDEVIL #36 as occuring just before FANTASTIC FOUR #68 has been buggin me. This means that Daredevil is Dr.Doom's prisoner (happened at the end of DD #36) throughout the events of FF#68-72 and FF@5.

Other than an editor's note in DD #36 for the reader to look at the events in FF #71 as to the whereabouts of the FF during Daredevil's battle with the Trapster, I honestly cannot see why their appearance in DD #36 and #38 (not to mention Sue's in DD #35), shouldn't all just occur after FF #72. Any comments? 

P.S.
By my calculation, by placing the DD#35-36 appearances for the FF before FF#68, it creates an over a month-long gap that Daredevil is in Dr.Doom's custody (during DD #37.)

(congrats to the new Board members!!)

- RLG 

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Re: Sue Storm appearance & a Daredevil question
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 01, 2004 at 21:57:45:
In Reply to: Sue Storm appearance & a Daredevil question 
posted by RLG on February 01, 2004 at 20:34:08:

> >> Sue appears in DAREDEVIL (v.1) #38 (5p2), as Daredevil (his mind transfered in Dr.Doom's body at the end of DD#36) sends a radio message to the FF warning them of Dr.Doom's (who's mind, in turn, has been transfered to Daredevil's body) plan. The story in this issue continues straight into FANTASTIC FOUR (v.1) #73.

> >> Given that Sue was on a leave of absense due to her pregnancy at the time, it is entirely possible that her appearance is an artistic error. In the appearance, only her head and top of her costume is seen over Reed's right shoulder AND she has no dialogue. Also, in the previous panel, Reed, Ben, and Johnny are the only one's seen entering the communications room.

> >> In a somewhat related matter, the placement of the FF's appearance in DAREDEVIL #36 as occuring just before FANTASTIC FOUR #68 has been buggin me. This means that Daredevil is Dr.Doom's prisoner (happened at the end of DD #36) throughout the events of FF#68-72 and FF@5.

> >>Other than an editor's note in DD #36 for the reader to look at the events in FF #71 as to the whereabouts of the FF during Daredevil's battle with the Trapster, I honestly cannot see why their appearance in DD #36 and #38 (not to mention Sue's in DD #35), shouldn't all just occur after FF #72. Any comments? 

> >> P.S.
> >>>>By my calculation, by placing the DD#35-36 appearances for the FF before FF#68, it creates an over a month-long gap that Daredevil is in Dr.Doom's custody (during DD #37.)


You are correct. The FF should appear in DD 36 and DD 38 between FF 72 and FF 73. The Official Marvel Index to the Fantastic Four #5 cites DD 38 but ignores the DD 36 appearance. The Marvel Comics Index 9B (covering Daredevil) also addresses this crossover, but erroneously puts DD 36 between FF 70 and 71.

I don't have the original comics, but in Marvel Comics Index 9C, Sue is credited as appearing in DD 36, but not in DD 38.

--Paul B. 

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Daredevil: Man Without Fear
Posted by Joel Jackson on February 02, 2004 at 09:26:23:

Can someone clarify whether DD:MWF is canon or not? It's listed on this site as non-canonical.

I'm wondering because I just re-read Deadpool 7 & Daredevil/Deadpool '97.

In DP7, Deadpool accidentally kicks Typhoid Mary out of a window. This brings up a repressed memory that appears to be a flashback to DD:MWF. This leads into DD/DP'97, where Typhoid tracks down DD to make him pay for accidentally knocking her out of a window in DD:MWF and turning her psychotic. The end of DD/DP'97 includes a note referring the reader to DD:MWF for the full backstory.

So, I know DP7 & DD/DP'97 *are* canon. Can someone tell me why MWF is not? (I don't have it and haven't been able to come across it.) 

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Re: Daredevil: Man Without Fear
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 02, 2004 at 11:46:03:
In Reply to: Daredevil: Man Without Fear 
posted by Joel Jackson on February 02, 2004 at 09:26:23:

Man Without Fear is a complete rewrite of Daredevil's origin which reorders many of the events. It's irreconcilable with the character's origin as previously established.

The reason for this is that the story wasn't originally planned to be canon - it derives from an abortive film script, or something like that.

Unfortunately some later issues of Daredevil do refer to events in Man Without Fear, but they're wrong. The standing explanation is that, at least so far as Typhoid is concerned, something broadly similar must have happened in the course of Daredevil's origin. 

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Avengers/Ultraforce
Posted by Harrison on February 02, 2004 at 20:58:17:

Is Avengers/Ultraforce (and vice versa) canon? If not, why not? If so, when? 

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Re: Avengers/Ultraforce
Posted by Dimadick on February 03, 2004 at 08:36:29:
In Reply to: Avengers/Ultraforce 
posted by Harrison on February 02, 2004 at 20:58:17:

> Is Avengers/Ultraforce (and vice versa) canon? If not, why not? If so, when?

The Appendix to the Marvel Handbook has a profile of the Ultraforce, including chronological order of appearances. See:http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/ultrafce.htm

According to it the key to chronolocical placement lies with the common member of the two teams:Black Knight/Dane Whitman.

The Master List from the same site places his appearances at the time as following:

1)Avengers I #375.
2)Ultraforce I #8-9, 10(p.1-18).
3)Avengers I #380.
4)Ultraforce I #10 (p. 19+).
5)Avengers/Ultraforce.
6)Ultraforce/Avengers.
7)Ultraforce Infinity.

He then remains in the Ultraverse for a while.Including such issues as:

8)Ultraforce II #1-3.
9)Phoenix Ressurection:Genesis.(An X-Men crossover)
10)Phoenix Ressurection:Revelations. (An X-Men crossover).
11)Ultraforce/Spider-Man #1A and #1B.
12)All-New Exiles #4.
13)Foxfire #1-2.
14)Ultraforce II #4-12.
15)Ultraverse Unlimited #2.

He returns to the MU with
16)Black Knight:Exodus.(set in the 12th century).

He returns to the present to find the Avengers disbanded and appears in
17)Heroes for Hire #2-8.

Insignificant storylines perhaps but could perhaps help place the whole of his Ultraverse appearances in relation to the Avengers activities of the time. 

			*	*	*
3 more corrections
Posted by David Hall on February 02, 2004 at 23:01:37:

Mustang
**W@ 116 -FB
W2 116
W2 117
W2 118


Threnody
XM 21
XM 25
**XM 32
XM 37-BTS
XM 51

Trish Tilby

V:OT 2
V:OT 3
X '97
** H@97/2
UX 341
UX 342
UX 343
UX 344
UX 345
UX 347
UX 348
UX 349
UX 350
X 70
X 71
**XM: ASD (in gap #2)
(H@ '97/2) delete!
V:F 1
V:F 2

Why move H@ 97/2 you ask? Well, because this story goes before Gen X 24 (See any other character's listing who appears in it Leech or Artie Maddicks perhaps where it is listed correctly), which occurs before Operation zero tolerance (Gen X 24-31). So Trish's listing must occur before she leaves Earth with the X-Men in UX 341, which is the last time she is on Earth before OZT.
(If you need more information than this let me know!)

Dave

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Non-canon series'
Posted by rhod on February 03, 2004 at 06:05:46:

I just read the 2 part Silver Surfer story, 'Parable' but notice it is not listed in MCP, nor in your list of non-canon titles. Is there a reason why this story has been overlooked (reprint or rehash maybe?)?

On a similar(ish) subject, why was transformers declared to be non-canon? I'm sure I remember a comic in the 90's where someone(possibly Reed Richards or Dr. Who) referred to an alternate Earth that had been visited/invaded by giant transforming robots. This would make Transformers a divergent universe at least, as opposed to being totally non-canon 

			*	*	*

Re: Non-canon series'
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 03, 2004 at 07:59:44:
In Reply to: Non-canon series' 
posted by rhod on February 03, 2004 at 06:05:46:

> On a similar(ish) subject, why was transformers declared to be non-canon?

Transformers was declared to be non-canon by Marvel themselves, in the letters page of the title. This was despite Spider-Man, Dazzler, SHIELD and the Savage Land having appeared in earlier issues, and Transformers supporting character Circuit Breaker turning up in a brief cameo during Secret Wars II. Still, it's their universe, and if they say it's not canon, it isn't.

A slight complication is created by Death's Head, a Marvel UK character who's turned up in several mainstream Marvel titles as well. He debuted in the UK edition of Transformers (which has a seperate continuity again from the American one, despite incorporating US reprints), and has jumped around various dimensions including two guest starring roles in, of all places, Dr Who Monthly. 

But Death's Head appears to be an unusual example of a character from another continuity altogether who has actually migrated to the Marvel Universe through dimension-jumping. Since it's possible to get from the Marvel Universe to Earth-DC, Earth-Top Cow and Earth-WildStorm, this in itself doesn't automatically qualify his home continuity as a part of the the Marvel Universe. 

			*	*	*

Re: Non-canon series' Fury?
Posted by David Hall on February 03, 2004 at 12:33:01:

In Reply to: Re: Non-canon series' posted by Paul O'Brien on February 03, 2004 at 07:59:44:

On the non-cannon page, Fury is listed as non-cannon. Both Forge and Nick Fury's chronology's list FURY 1-FB.

Am I missing something, are there 2 Fury series and one is cannon, or is the flashback cannon, and the rest of the issue non-cannon?

Dave

			*	*	*

Re: Non-canon series' Fury?
Posted by Peter Fabricius on February 03, 2004 at 14:33:09:
In Reply to: Re: Non-canon series' Fury? 
posted by David Hall on February 03, 2004 at 12:33:01:

> On the non-cannon page, Fury is listed as non-cannon. Both Forge and Nick Fury's chronology's list FURY 1-FB.

> Am I missing something, are there 2 Fury series and one is cannon, or is the flashback cannon, and the rest of the issue non-cannon?

> Dave


There are 2.
Fury, a one-shot, cover dated May 1994, by Barry Dutter and M. C. Wyman. No volume info in the indicia. This is canon, as far as I know.
Fury, 6 issue mini, from Marvel's MAX line, cover dated November 2001 to April 2002, by Garth Ennis and Darick Robertson. Listed as volume 3 in the indicia. This is definetely non-canon.

I have no idea what Marvel considers to be vol. 2.
They could be counting it as a continuation of Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. 1-18 (vol. 1) (1968-1971) and Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. 1-47 (vol. 2) (1989-1993).
Or they could be counting either Fury of S.H.I.E.L.D. (4 ish. mini) from 1995 or Fury/Agent 13 (2 ish. mini) from 1998 as Fury vol. 2, but both are listed as vol. 1 in their indicia.

Peter 

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Maybe the Fury one-shot isn't canon, either...
Posted by John Simons on February 11, 2004 at 00:56:17:
In Reply to: Re: Non-canon series' Fury? 
posted by Peter Fabricius on February 03, 2004 at 14:33:09:

Once I saw this mention of the Fury one-shot, I recalled that I bought it as part of a lot off ebay some months back, and hadn't read it yet. I pulled it out and gave it a look. It's definitely an interesting read, but the timeline it presents seems so out of joint with already-published comics of that time period (the early Marvel Age) that I don't know what to make of it. 

Out of curiousity I googled "Fury Dutter" and in some of the usenet messages I found it seems some readers with more knowledge of Fury and SHIELD's history than I feel that it is so full of irreconcilable chronology and unexplained retcons that its "canonocity" must be seriously questioned.

Looking about the MCP, I see that mentions of FURY are quite haphazard. Forge's and Scorpio's appearences are noted, for instance, but there is no listing in Iron Man's chronology for his numerous appearences in the one-shot, which take place over months of time and would probably require several mentions weaving throughout his other appearences from the period. 

It would seem that FURY has not been throroughly analyzed for the site, and until someone who knows their SHIELD history compares it to what's already been established as canon, I'm not sure it can be said with authority that the one-shot "counts". 

			*	*	*

Re: Non-canon series'
Posted by Stephen Gray on February 07, 2004 at 05:53:37:
In Reply to: Re: Non-canon series' 
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 03, 2004 at 07:59:44:

> > On a similar(ish) subject, why was transformers declared to be non-canon?

> Transformers was declared to be non-canon by Marvel themselves, in the letters page of the title. This was despite Spider-Man, Dazzler, SHIELD and the Savage Land having appeared in earlier issues, and Transformers supporting character Circuit Breaker turning up in a brief cameo during Secret Wars II. Still, it's their universe, and if they say it's not canon, it isn't.

However, the UK Transformers Comic never actually acknowledged this, and still had Marvel Universe references (Roxxon, the Daily Bugle) way after this decision.

> A slight complication is created by Death's Head, a Marvel UK character who's turned up in several mainstream Marvel titles as well. He debuted in the UK edition of Transformers (which has a seperate continuity again from the American one, despite incorporating US reprints), and has jumped around various dimensions including two guest starring roles in, of all places, Dr Who Monthly. 

> But Death's Head appears to be an unusual example of a character from another continuity altogether who has actually migrated to the Marvel Universe through dimension-jumping. Since it's possible to get from the Marvel Universe to Earth-DC, Earth-Top Cow and Earth-WildStorm, this in itself doesn't automatically qualify his home continuity as a part of the the Marvel Universe.

True. Incidentally, if Transformers is considered a divergent universe of the MU, then this seriously affects the orgins of the MU, as you'd then have to include Unicron destroying the previous universe, as detailed in the US Transformers #74. 

			*	*	*

Parable was an Epic series, and Epic projects are not.....
Posted by John McDonagh on February 04, 2004 at 22:08:12:
In Reply to: Non-canon series' 
posted by rhod on February 03, 2004 at 06:05:46:

> I just read the 2 part Silver Surfer story, 'Parable' but notice it is not listed in MCP, nor in your list of non-canon titles. Is there a reason why this story has been overlooked (reprint or rehash maybe?)?

Parable seems to happen in a universe where the Fantastic Four were not involved in the Silver Surfer's origin. This universe was seen again in the Marvel UK title Cyberspace 3000. It has been dubbed "Earth-Moebius". 

Also, Parable was released under the Epic imprint, an imprint originally created for creator-owned projects which was later expanded to include some projects with mainstream characters.

However, Epic titles featuring mainstream Marvel characters are not always canonical. Some could be, some definetly aren't.

Definetly are:
1. Elektra:Assasin-referred to in Olshevky's Avengers Index and various issues of Daredevil

2. Epic Illustrated#1 (Silver Surfer) story-referred to in Olshevy's FF index

3. Havok and Wolverine: Meltdown-referred to in 1995 published issues of X-Factor

4. Punisher: Return to Big Nothing; in-continuity, because in one of the early 1990's Punisher annuals, the Punisher gives a run-down of his enemies-and he mentions Cleve Gorman, the enemy from Return to Big Nothing


Definetly Not:
1. Elektra Lives Again-declared an alternate past, future, or present in Master Edition and Daredevil letters page


2.Iron Man: Crash-alternate or possible future 

3. Tomb of Dracula III: A lot of people think this was in-continuity because it seemed to ignore everything that had happened since Tomb volume 1. However, there is a line in the first issue which explains that a demon named Asmodeus sort of "rewound" events to the status quo antebellum. 
In addition, in the definetly canonical Nightstalkers series reference is made to Frank Drake marrying Marlene McKenna and Blade having been brought to an asylum-both of which happened in this series. 

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Master Edition?
Posted by Scott on February 07, 2004 at 07:11:37:
In Reply to: Parable was an Epic series, and Epic projects are not..... 
posted by John McDonagh on February 04, 2004 at 22:08:12:

> 
> Definetly Not:
> 1. Elektra Lives Again-declared an alternate past, future, or present in Master Edition and Daredevil letters page

What is the Master Edition?

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Re: Master Edition?
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 07, 2004 at 12:11:47:
In Reply to: Master Edition? 
posted by Scott on February 07, 2004 at 07:11:37:

> What is the Master Edition?

A looseleaf edition of the Official Handbook from the early nineties. It was dreadful. 

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Questions on Gap Books
Posted by Administrator on February 03, 2004 at 17:56:23:

I've received two huge batches of updates from David Hall and Michel Racaud, and they differ in a couple of the details. I wonder if anyone can clarify or verify some things.

In X-Men Annual '96, Michel says that Warpath makes an appearance, while David says that Mondo's around somewhere. I suspect they're talking about the same character, since each of them has left the other one out. Thoughts?

There's a flashback in Wolverine #113 with an unidentified old man and young teenager. David contends that the teenager is Stick. Michel contends that the teenager is Hellstorm and the old man is the Ancient One. Michel's reasoning quotes Hellstorm from Wolverine #114: "I teleported here on the trail of an arcane evil I had thought long since passed into the netherworld. Was even the veil of time transparent to the Ancient One ?" Note that the capilization is Michel's. I suspect that in the book, it reads "ANCIENT ONE", like all the other words. Thoughts?

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Re: Questions on Gap Books: W2 113

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Posted by David Hall on February 03, 2004 at 18:07:02:

In Reply to: Questions on Gap Books posted by Administrator on February 03, 2004 at 17:56:23:


I belive the boy is Stick, because he weilds one, which is Stick's mo from what I've seen.
Also it helps explain why Stick is so gung ho about getting Wolverine back on the path. There is lots of dialog about the path, and straying from the path in the flashback. 

Hopefully someone can confirm or deny. I don;t know who the old man is.

We do know the cube once belonged to Lord Dark Wind as in the preesnt day it has his family's markings on it, and Logan seems willing to dicuss truning it over to Lady Deathstrike, but at the time of the flashback, the box has NO markings, and so could be in anyone's possesion.

What the box is, is never explicitly stated, so that's no help in placing these characters!

I posted this summary of the w2 113 flashback below, but I want to put it in this thread, because not too many people will go back and look at an old thread (unless they're looking for a specific post.)

Dave


Flashback: Wolverine meets Ogun for thie first time.

in Shanghai, Wolverine is drinking and signing a pirate song. There is a guy in red with a funny hat, who is some type of zen/martial arts master. Who is he?

There is also a young boy, weilding a stick. Who is he?

a Japanese sergeant attacks the man in red, who has dropped his box, the same relic that we seen in Wolverine 111-114 (which used to belong to Deathstike's dad, Lord Dark Wind.)

a private tries to stop him, but to no avail.

The boy with the Stick attacks the sergeant, then Logan steps in and takes the gun from the sergeant, and hits him with it. Then Ogun, in military uniform steps out of the shadows, and slices the sergeant with his sword, killing him, for defiling the honor of the Japanese military. He moves to attack the private, bbut Logan intercedes. Ogun stares at Logan, commends him for showing no fear, only defiance, and offers to train him at hi dojo. 

The man in red says to Logan "you would be better served becoming an acolyte of this undeserving dodderer and plumbing th depth sof the universe, you possess powers you are not even aware of."

Logan walks off, singing his song.

The man in red says to the boy with stick "The Wild side of you wants to follow him my son, but there is still much you must learn from me. In time your feet will stray fromt he path,and you will find your way back. But for now your place is at my side. Do you hear me child?"

The child stares at Logan as he walks off.


Given the stuff going on in the issues of wolverine prior to this, I suspect that the boy is supposed to be Stick... Am I correct about this? I know nothing about the character, but her talks alot about setting Logan back on the path.

Who is the boy's mentor, the man in red?

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Re: Questions on Gap Books: X '96
Posted by David Hall on February 03, 2004 at 18:27:25:
In Reply to: Questions on Gap Books 
posted by Administrator on February 03, 2004 at 17:56:23:

In order to save people some time, let me tell you which character we are talking about. He appears ONLY in the group photo two page spread. He is on the left page, standing behind at to the right of Cyclops. I will admit that the art is a little ambiguous as to who the character could be, but he has dark hair, goggles, and is wearing a red Generation X costume. The costume is just the same as one that Synch, M, Skin, and Husk are wearing in the group shot. We see more of this character than just his head, we also see part of his mid section, wearing the red Gen X belt with the blue X buckle.

So, unless Warpath is wearing a Generation X costume and goggles, Im going with Mondo.

What does everyone else think?

Dave

			*	*	*

Re: Questions on Gap Books
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 03, 2004 at 18:43:07:
In Reply to: Questions on Gap Books 
posted by Administrator on February 03, 2004 at 17:56:23:

> In X-Men Annual '96, Michel says that Warpath makes an appearance, while David says that Mondo's around somewhere. I suspect they're talking about the same character, since each of them has left the other one out. Thoughts?

X-Men '96 guest stars all of Generation X and X-Force. Mondo and Warpath are both conspicuously missing for most of the issue.

Near the end of the issue, there's a double-page spread of the three teams posing for a group photo. Just between Scott and Jean, in the row behind them, is a mysterious figure who doesn't look like anyone. Facially, he bears some resemblance to Warpath. But he's clearly wearing a Generation X costume, so by elimination the artist must have intended him to be Mondo.

I can't see any other figure in the story that resembles Warpath.

> There's a flashback in Wolverine #113 with an unidentified old man and young teenager. David contends that the teenager is Stick. Michel contends that the teenager is Hellstorm and the old man is the Ancient One. 

I think the timescale points firmly against it being Hellstorm. The flashback is set in Shanghai while it was occupied by the Japanese army, which places it back in World War II. As I understand his timeline, Hellstorm wasn't even alive at that point.

Stick would certainly make enormous sense, but I think the information provided in the flashback is inconclusive.

The older man is definitely the Ancient One; his Official Handbook entry has quite clearly been used as the main reference for the artist. 

			*	*	*

Re: Questions on Gap Books
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 03, 2004 at 21:07:01:
In Reply to: Re: Questions on Gap Books 
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 03, 2004 at 18:43:07:

> > In X-Men Annual '96, Michel says that Warpath makes an appearance, while David says that Mondo's around somewhere. I suspect they're talking about the same character, since each of them has left the other one out. Thoughts?

> X-Men '96 guest stars all of Generation X and X-Force. Mondo and Warpath are both conspicuously missing for most of the issue.

> Near the end of the issue, there's a double-page spread of the three teams posing for a group photo. Just between Scott and Jean, in the row behind them, is a mysterious figure who doesn't look like anyone. Facially, he bears some resemblance to Warpath. But he's clearly wearing a Generation X costume, so by elimination the artist must have intended him to be Mondo.

I have assumed that character to be Mondo.

--Paul B. 

			*	*	*

Re: Questions on Gap Books
Posted by Dimadick on February 04, 2004 at 07:56:16:
In Reply to: Re: Questions on Gap Books 
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 03, 2004 at 18:43:07:

> > There's a flashback in Wolverine #113 with an unidentified old man and young teenager. David contends that the teenager is Stick. Michel contends that the teenager is Hellstorm and the old man is the Ancient One. 

> I think the timescale points firmly against it being Hellstorm. The flashback is set in Shanghai while it was occupied by the Japanese army, which places it back in World War II. As I understand his timeline, Hellstorm wasn't even alive at that point.

Actually the flashback may predate World War II. Shanghai was captured by Japan in 1937, early in the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945). And according to flashbacks and references in Wolverine #34, 78-79, 85 and 106, Logan spent most of World War II as a Corporal of the Canadian armed forces. 

I am not sure how old Daimon Hellstrom is currently supposed to be. But his first appearance in Marvel Spotlight I # 13 was published with a cover date of January, 1974 and reportedly featured his 21st birthday.

His mother Victoria Wingate Hellstrom was "revealed" in Hellstorm #16 (July, 1994) to have been part of the "Chapel of Dresden", a group of occultists "once closely associated with Hitler", presumably before his death in 1945.

Both issues seem to place the Demon/human hybrid's birth at least a decade after World War II. 

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Re: Questions on Gap Books
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 04, 2004 at 09:20:12:
In Reply to: Re: Questions on Gap Books 
posted by Dimadick on February 04, 2004 at 07:56:16:

> Actually the flashback may predate World War II. Shanghai was captured by Japan in 1937, early in the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945). And according to flashbacks and references in Wolverine #34, 78-79, 85 and 106, Logan spent most of World War II as a Corporal of the Canadian armed forces. 

Good point. Isn't there a time travel story from the Larry Hama run on Wolverine which also pins him down as a participant in the Spanish Civil War? Must have done a lot of globetrotting around that time - but then I suppose he always has. 

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Re: Questions on Gap Books
Posted by Peter Fabricius on February 04, 2004 at 14:43:56:
In Reply to: Re: Questions on Gap Books 
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 04, 2004 at 09:20:12:

> > Actually the flashback may predate World War II. Shanghai was captured by Japan in 1937, early in the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945). And according to flashbacks and references in Wolverine #34, 78-79, 85 and 106, Logan spent most of World War II as a Corporal of the Canadian armed forces. 

> Good point. Isn't there a time travel story from the Larry Hama run on Wolverine which also pins him down as a participant in the Spanish Civil War? Must have done a lot of globetrotting around that time - but then I suppose he always has.

Wolverine (vol. 2) #35-37 is where Wolverine and Puck travels to Spain in April 1937.

			*	*	*

Re: Questions on Gap Books
Posted by Dimadick on February 05, 2004 at 02:17:30:
In Reply to: Re: Questions on Gap Books 
posted by Peter Fabricius on February 04, 2004 at 14:43:56:

> Wolverine (vol. 2) #35-37 is where Wolverine and Puck travels to Spain in April 1937.

Puck actually occupies the body of his former self, Milton Judd of 1937 who was among the participants of the Spanish Civil War(July, 1936 -April, 1939). Wolverine II #79 revealed that Logan himself is a veteran of the same war.

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Re: Questions on Gap Books
Posted by Jeph! on February 03, 2004 at 22:55:34:
In Reply to: Questions on Gap Books 
posted by Administrator on February 03, 2004 at 17:56:23:

> There's a flashback in Wolverine #113 with an unidentified old man and young teenager. Michel contends that the teenager is Hellstorm and the old man is the Ancient One. Michel's reasoning quotes Hellstorm from Wolverine #114: "I teleported here on the trail of an arcane evil I had thought long since passed into the netherworld. Was even the veil of time transparent to the Ancient One ?" Note that the capilization is Michel's.

I agree; the old man in the flashback is very likely the Ancient One, but that doesn't mean that the boy is Hellstorm.

In W2 #114, as you say, Hellstorm says he's on the trail of a long-thought-gone evil, and references an "ancient one" -- but in the closing pages of #113, we see that Hellstorm only recently learned of the evil, through a scrying glass -- which implies that it WASN'T him in the flashback.

However, the scrying glass was said in #113 to have belonged to "the former Sorceror Supreme" -- and that was the Ancient One. So Hellstorm IS referencing "the Ancient One", with caps, in #114. Which means that it was probably the Ancient One in the FB.

And, as Paul O. said, it looks just like him. :-)

As to the boy? Couldn't tell you for sure, but I'd put money on it being Stick.

-Jeph! 

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Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught)
Posted by David Hall on February 03, 2004 at 21:38:52:

I read on another board that Onslaught makes an appearance in Iron Man vol.2 #6. Does anyone who has this issue, know if that's true? I have no interest in the Heroes Reborniverse and do not want to waste my money, if someone on another board is seeing things.

Thanks,

Dave 

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Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught)
Posted by Jeph! on February 03, 2004 at 22:57:42:
In Reply to: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught) 
posted by David Hall on February 03, 2004 at 21:38:52:

> I read on another board that Onslaught makes an appearance in Iron Man vol.2 #6. Does anyone who has this issue, know if that's true?

He's there ... he materializes out of nowhere, says "behold my mighty hand", and vanishes again. I think the Hulk was doing something strenuous at the time, although I couldn't give you details. It's been quite some time since I owned that book.

-Jeph! 

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Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught)
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 04, 2004 at 04:45:20:
In Reply to: Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught) 
posted by Jeph! on February 03, 2004 at 22:57:42:

> He's there ... he materializes out of nowhere, says "behold my mighty hand", and vanishes again. 

Yup, that's pretty much it. It's never directly followed up; the significance is really that this issue and Captain America #6 constitute the first open acknowledgement in the Heroes Reborn titles that the characters in Earth-HR are the real ones, and not just an Ultimate-style reboot following the slaughter of the originals in Onslaught.

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Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught)
Posted by David Hall on February 04, 2004 at 08:38:00:
In Reply to: Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught) 
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 04, 2004 at 04:45:20:

Any idea how this works chronologically for Onslaught, given that this should be after Onslaught:MU ?

Dave

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Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught)
Posted by Jeph! on February 04, 2004 at 11:13:30:
In Reply to: Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught) 
posted by David Hall on February 04, 2004 at 08:38:00:

> Any idea how this works chronologically for Onslaught, given that this should be after Onslaught:MU ?

It's ... after Onslaught:MU.

It'd be his final appearance to date, then.

-Jeph! 

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Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught)
Posted by Stefan A. on February 05, 2004 at 09:49:02:
In Reply to: Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught) 
posted by David Hall on February 04, 2004 at 08:38:00:

When I read it it seemed to me that they saw a flashback from the past. Just like the flashbacks from the past that the Watcher shows to the Fantastic Four in FF2 #7

My guess is that they heard and saw an image of Onslaught from maybe X-Men #55 when he says something very similar before he releases the electromagnetic pulse that black outs Manhattan. But it could be from another issue during the Onslaught events, as if I don't remember wrong he likes to repeat that phrase.

A support to my theory seems to be provided in A2 #12 where Bruce Banner mentions that the space-time fabric around the gamma reactor on Avengers Island is weak. It's that gamma reactor they try to repair in IM2 #6.

Stefan A.

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Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught)
Posted by Jeph! on February 05, 2004 at 16:56:15:
In Reply to: Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught) 
posted by Stefan A. on February 05, 2004 at 09:49:02:

> When I read it it seemed to me that they saw a flashback from the past ... support to my theory seems to be provided in A2 #12 where Bruce Banner mentions that the space-time fabric around the gamma reactor on Avengers Island is weak. It's that gamma reactor they try to repair in IM2 #6.

Eh. I'd tend to doubt it. Remember, the energy that made up Onslaught was shunted to the Heroes-Rebornverse, just like the heroes were -- there's no reason to doubt that he's still there, in some form or another. His energy is likely woven through the fabric of the entire planet.

Besides, like you said, the FF were shown their flashbacks by the Watcher. Weak time-space barrier or not, never before or since has an image spontaneously materialized near that Gamma Reactor...

-Jeph! 

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Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught)
Posted by Stefan A. on February 05, 2004 at 20:53:55:
In Reply to: Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught) 
posted by Jeph! on February 05, 2004 at 16:56:15:

Yes, it might be possible he's still there, just seems a bit odd of him to say "behold my power" and nothing at all happens. I rather like the theory that there was a temporary dimensional rift in space and time that allowed them to peek into a past event of Earth-616. A rift caused by the high radiation that might have allowed Onslaught to be in Earth-616 and the Franklin-verse at the same time for a short moment during the Onslaught events. An explanation that they haven't seen anymore images near that Gamma Reactor might be that they managed to repair it and the high gamma radiation levels faded away.

-Stefan A.

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Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught)
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 06, 2004 at 06:49:04:
In Reply to: Re: Iron Man (2nd series) #6 (Onslaught) 
posted by Stefan A. on February 05, 2004 at 20:53:55:

> Yes, it might be possible he's still there, just seems a bit odd of him to say "behold my power" and nothing at all happens. 

Yeah, but it's Heroes Reborn. Almost none of it really made sense, when you stopped to think. 

			*	*	*

Spectacular Spider-Man #117
Posted by captamr on February 04, 2004 at 13:43:04:

Randy joins the Robertson family dinner in #117 which is also part of the monthly trilogy of Spider titles promulgating the Where is Spider-Man? theme (uneventful, I might add!). This affects Joy Mercados listing as she appears in the one page epilogue running through the series. The following are suggested corrections:

ROBERTSON, RANDY
PPTSS 115
**PPTSS 117
PPTSS 118

MERCADO, JOY
WOSM 16
**WOSM 17 ~ ASM 279 ~ PPTSS 117
WOSM 18


Charlie

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CAPTAIN AMERICA...CAPTAIN U.K....SALVATORE CARBONE
Posted by Arthur Stein on February 05, 2004 at 17:11:47:

new entries marked **


CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS

A 213-FB
**TOS 72/2-FB (3p1-4p3)
TOS 79/2-FB


CAPTAIN U.K./LINDA MCQUILLAN

XCAL 124
**XCAL 125 unnamed (30p1)
XCAL2 1


CARBONE, SALVATORE

PWZ 4
**PWZ 5
PWZ 6


Note to newcomers. Just to explain what my postings areas an avid Marvelist I had my own version of this Marvel Chronology Project (MCP). I am now comparing the two, and for all character entries in the MCP, I am checking if I have any appearances that may have been overlooked. Validating them. Chronologizing them. Posting them (so others have an opportunity to refute or comment). The aim... to help in the completeness of this magnificent piece of information engineering! 



#154

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M/TU2 1
Posted by David Hall on February 05, 2004 at 19:47:44:

IN Skin, Husk, and Chamber's listings M/tu2 1 is listed as such:

GENX 31
GENX 32
M/TU2 1
GENX 33

This seems a little odd to me, as in Gen X 31 the team is in Los Angeles, while in 32 they are back in Snow Valley. (As they are in 33.)

M/TU2 1 is set in Los Angeles, and there is a note saying "this story takes place before Gen X 32."

The way it is placed now, means that the team went from L.A. back to Snow Valley, then Husk, Skin, and Chamber went back to L.A. just to appear in Mtu2/1.

It seems more likely that the footnote is correct, and that this issue occurs betwen Gen X 31 and 32.

Since Spider-Man is the only other name character, and he is not in gen x 31 or 32, moving this issue, wouldn't affect his chronology.

Let's save an extra trip to Los Angeles and change 
some listings.....
Skin, Husk, and Chamber:

Gen X 31
**MTU 2/1
Gen X 32
Gen X 33


David

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Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 06, 2004 at 12:07:15:

I'm currently working on a chronology for Ultimate Spider-Man (on the basis that it's a good starting point for the entire Ultimate continuity). I gather there's an issue #1/2 which was put out through Wizard. Anybody got any details on what happened in it, who was in it, etc? 

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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2
Posted by PopularLoser on February 06, 2004 at 12:38:25:
In Reply to: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2 
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 06, 2004 at 12:07:15:

> I'm currently working on a chronology for Ultimate Spider-Man (on the basis that it's a good starting point for the entire Ultimate continuity). I gather there's an issue #1/2 which was put out through Wizard. Anybody got any details on what happened in it, who was in it, etc?


Yeah, I've been following the title for awhile and as far as I can tell, Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2
fits in after issue #21 (the incident in New Jersey involving Spider-Man, Doc Ock, Kraven, Sandman, Agents of SHEILD, and Members of the press).

#1/2 deals with a woman trying to shoplift from a store and the Ultimate Version of Iron Fist shows up and trys to stop her. Spider-Man swings by, misreads the situation, and takes out Iron Fist. Ben Urich is at the scene, and takes some pictures. Later at J. J. Jameson's office at the Bugle, he decides to run the story as a slam against Spider-Man (so what else is new).

That's basically it (or at least what I can remember without actually rereading the whole thing). If you want, I'll re-read it tonight and double-check.

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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 06, 2004 at 12:54:12:
In Reply to: Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2 
posted by PopularLoser on February 06, 2004 at 12:38:25:

> Yeah, I've been following the title for awhile and as far as I can tell, Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2
> fits in after issue #21 (the incident in New Jersey involving Spider-Man, Doc Ock, Kraven, Sandman, Agents of SHEILD, and Members of the press).

Immediately after? Issue #21 ends on a weekend, and issue #22 picks up on the Monday morning (beginning a storyline that runs through to issue #27). So the gap between issues #27-28 is more comfortable.

> That's basically it (or at least what I can remember without actually rereading the whole thing). If you want, I'll re-read it tonight and double-check.

Yeah, could you give me a list of the characters and a note of how long the story takes?

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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2
Posted by PopularLoser on February 06, 2004 at 21:14:34:
In Reply to: Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2 
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 06, 2004 at 12:54:12:

Here is an issue review:

Writen by Brian Michael Bendis, Drawn by Mark Bagely, Inked by Art Thibert

Published sometime in 2002

Appearances: Spider-Man, Iron Fist, J. Jonah Jameson, Robby Robertson, Ben Urich

Synopsis: J. J. Jameson is heading an editorial meeting at the Bugle (both Ben Urich and Robby Robertson are present). He's got pictures taken by an intern of an altercation between Spider-Man and an unknown vigilante (Iron Fist) outside a sporting goods store. Jonah asks if anyone knows what happened. Ben Urich summarizes the following events:

A middle-aged woman attempts to steal a pair of shoes from the store and one of the employees attempts to stop her. She starts shouting and causing a scene. Another customer mistakes this for harassment and starts attaking the employee. And young guy (Iron Fist) gets involved, but before much else happens, Spider-Man swings into the mix and punches Iron Fist.

Jonah likes this story and decides to run it even though Ben Urich also reads a letter from Spider-Man to the Bugle explaining his side of the story.

That's it. The whole issue is probably an hour or two and takes place souly at the Daily Bugle with the exception of the flashbacks which show the incident outside the sporting goods store, and they could have occured at anytime within a week before the meeting at the Bugle. By the way Peter Parker is not at the meeting nor does he appear in the issue at all (except as Spider-Man). And no one mentions the words "Iron Fist" in the issue. Instead he is referred to as Danny Rand and as an occasional street vigilante.

References: This could actually occur at almost any point past The Ulimate Spider-Man Super Special. I always though of it as occuring after the New Jersey incident mentioned above because Spidy is not seen by the press as quite the menace he once was (or that's at least the way I read it) so it would make sense the Jonah (the Spidy hater that he is) would take the first oppertunity available to shoot at Spidey and knock him back down in the public's eyes and the events of this issue may be him doing just that. 

However, I haven't tried to put any of the Ultimate books on a calender so I wasn't aware of how short a length of time ther is between #21 and #22. But now looking, you're right. Perhaps, like you said, this issue would fit better in the length of time between #27 & #28. How long do you have the "Return of the Goblin" storyline taking? I'm thinking a few days which would still work with my Jonah theory. 

			*	*	*

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 07, 2004 at 10:03:13:
In Reply to: Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2 
posted by PopularLoser on February 06, 2004 at 21:14:34:

>How long do you have the "Return of the Goblin" storyline taking? I'm thinking a few days which would still work with my Jonah theory.

Internal references make it clear that issues #22-27 take place entirely in the space of two days - the Monday and Tuesday immediately following the previous storyline. 

			*	*	*

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 07, 2004 at 10:13:07:
In Reply to: Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2 
posted by PopularLoser on February 06, 2004 at 21:14:34:

Oh, and thanks!

			*	*	*

More X-Corrections
Posted by David Hall on February 08, 2004 at 07:26:48:

Skin
GENX 34-FB
**GEN X  - FB
UX 317
X 37
UX 318
GENX 1

Tores
Tores
**Gen X 34 -FB
** Gen X 0.5 -FB
**GenX 21
Genx 25
** Gen X 29
** Gen X 30 (in Gap#2)
GenX 31
** Gen X 0.5

Black King
X 64
XU 17
(X 71)
(X 73)
C2 51-FB
C2 48-BTS
C2 49-FB-BTS
C2 48-BTS
C2 49-BTS
C2 50
C2 51
C2 52
C2 53
**X71 
** X 73

In X 71 Shaw refers to the events of Cable 48-53, so they must happen BEFORE X 71 and 73.

Cable
C2 45
C2 46
C2 47
XM 30
XFOR 69
XFOR 70
(XFOR 75)
(X 77)
C2 49-FB
C2 48
C2 49
C2 50
C2 51
C2 52
C2 53
C2 54
**XFOR 75
**X 77

Cable 48-53 have to come between X 64 and 71 (See Shaw above), not after X 77.

Looking at the relevant portion of Cannonballs listing, you will see that XFOR 75, has to occur AFTER X 72, so Cable 48-53 have to come before it.

Cannonball (correct)
X 70
X 71
UX 352
X 72
XFOR 75
XFOR 76
UX 353
UX 354

			*	*	*

PEGGY CARTER...CERBERUS...COACHWHIP
Posted by Arthur Stein on February 09, 2004 at 11:54:28:

new entries marked **


CARTER, PEGGY

Q 6
**Q 7 voice heard over communicator (18p1,18p3)
CA 368


CERBERUS

**T 130
CHAMP 1


COACHWHIP

*CA 314/2 typo - should read CA 341/2
CA 342


Note to newcomers. Just to explain what my postings areas an avid Marvelist I had my own version of this Marvel Chronology Project (MCP). I am now comparing the two, and for all character entries in the MCP, I am checking if I have any appearances that may have been overlooked. Validating them. Chronologizing them. Posting them (so others have an opportunity to refute or comment). The aim... to help in the completeness of this magnificent piece of information engineering! 



#155

			*	*	*

J.Jonah Jameson; didn't Web#52 do a flashback story....
Posted by John McDonagh on February 09, 2004 at 14:22:38:

I seem to recall that Web of Spider-Man#52 did a flashback story with J. Jonah Jameson to his days as a young journalist. I'll see if I can hunt it down and discern where it fits in. 

			*	*	*

Spider-Man calendar
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 09, 2004 at 16:30:56:

Paul:
FWIW, here is what a have so far on the Spidey calendar; now, I just know you are going to make a mess out of it but I'll be happy to prove you wrong as in countless earlier occasions (he, he, he...). Of course it's still incomplete, I'm not including recent issues because we still need resolution on that Thor storyline.

NOVEMBER
FRI 16
11:00 AM-10:00 PM TW 1
Spidey stops the Rhino from robbing a bank while being watched by the Thousand. Then Peter (who is not staying at his aunt's anymore) visits Aunt May to do his laundry (around 1:25 PM) where May mentions he's going out with a model "tonight", later he drops by the Bugle (at 3:40 PM) to sell the pictures from his morning fight. Later that night, at empty Bugle offices, the Thousand kills Miss Patton to take her body.
10:00 PM-12:00 AM TW 2 (1-3)
The same night as TW 1 Peter attends the Fashion Awards party with a model named Skye.
SAT 17
12:00 AM-1:30 AM TW 2 (4-22) (rain)
"Three hours" after getting to the Fashion Awards party (probably past midnight at this point) Peter leaves the party and takes the Thousand (in Miss Patton's body) to his new apartment (into which he moved after separating from Mary Jane in ASM 01; this is not the same apartment as the one first seen in PPSM2 30) where the Thousand defeats Spidey.
1:30 AM-6:30 AM TW 3 (waning crescent moon)
The same early morning as the end of TW 2, the Thousand takes the body of Mr. Ambrose (the super of Peter's new apartment), fights Spidey and is finally defeated. Peter then goes to stay to his aunt's due to the destruction to his apartment caused by fighting the Thousand. Presumably the same early morning Spidey goes out to patrol the city, as whats left of the Thousand gets killed inadvertently by a passer by.
TUE 20
8:30 AM-9:30 AM DD2 24 (15-19p8)
Murdock cant be in two places at once, so he shows up in court as Griggs lawyer...and Peter Parker shows up as Daredevil. As they sit down for trial, Kate Vinokur questions Peter as being the real DD. Spidey tells her to just go with it.
9:30 AM-5:00 PM DD2 24-FB (20-21)
Day 1 of the trial takes place as opening statements are made; "Daredevil" (Peter Parker) remains calm. Foggy promises to show more evidence "tomorrow".
*These scenes are said to have happened "today" in the TV news shown in DD2 24 (19p9-22).
7:00 PM-7:30 PM DD2 24 (19p9-22) NSA
Kate Vinokur is watching the news about Day 1 of the Trial of Daredevil, and talks to DD on the phone asking who was the guy sitting next to her all day, He tells her to go with it and trust him. He mentions his cross-examination to begin "the day after tomorrow" (he must be forgetting that the day after tomorrow will be 'Thanksgiving" and the jury wouldn't work, he must mean the following day in court after tomorrow).
WED 21
9:30 AM-2:30 PM DD2 25-FB (1p3-p4)
The trial wraps up on its 2nd day as Foggy presents damning evidence (the tape showing DD confronting Griggs in his private office asserting Griggs had been hypnotized by the Matador) and "Daredevil" (Peter Parker under the costume) denies involvement in the damage to Griggs' greenhouse.
THU 22 Thanksgiving Day
12:00 AM-12:30 AM DD2 25 (1) NSA
A TV newsman reports the highlights of Day 2 of the trial of DD (those of DD2 25-FB) as happening "today" and announces Daredevil's cross-examination by Foggy Nelson to begin "tomorrow".
*This must be a midnight newscast for the reporter to present the news as happening "today" forgetting that technically it is already another day. It will be Thanksgiving this day and the court wouldn't work, so the reporter must have realized his mistake to announce later (correctly this time) that DD's cross-examination begins "tomorrow at 9 A.M.".
FRI 23
9:30 AM-10:30 PM DD2 25 (2-16)
Peter Parker shows up again as DD, but Matt doesnt show up to defend Griggs. Foggy to handles the case, he asks "DD" if he met Griggs at his office "last Wednesday" (which should be a mistake by Foggy since that happened on a Thursday "two days after Tuesday") and "DD" denies it. Theyre an hour into the trial when Matt and his legal assistant Elaine Kendrick show up. Murdock says he got a phone call from someone asking him to bring a video camera to a street corner at 9:05 A.M. He sent Elaine down there with a camera, and Daredevil comes swinging by (Matt had this set up, so Elaine would catch him on camera around a clock display showing the time and "today's date". The time is shown to be 9:07 and the date seems to read 11/30/01, the month must be right but the day can't be since it's only been four days since "Jury selection on the 19th"). Murdock asks this case to be dismissed, since there is someone else out there as Daredevil. Then, another DD shows up: a guy named Terrence Hillman, saying hes the real Daredevil and pulling off his hood to reveal his face. He says he was the one who busted up Griggs greenhouse and gives a check for the damages, then explains he was training the other DD to be the new Daredevil because he is retiring. The judge declares a mistrial. Leaving court, Hillman is asked if it was him who threatened Griggs "last week" in his office and he declines to answer. Jameson appears on TV.
Later that day DD explains to Kate that he had a friend stand in as DD at the trial, but the Terrance guy bursting through the window wasnt his idea.
That night, DD visits Terrance who explains he just wanted to help. He figured hed get some publicity as "the man behind the mask" and this would let the real DD continue to act as a superhero. DD warns him the publicity will put him in danger, but leaves him alone.
SAT 24
2:30 PM-7:00 PM DD2 25 (17-22)
As he discusses with Spidey the late events DD learns he's got a letter from "Arnold Quaid" telling him its time they met. DD goes to the address in the letter and finds The Ringmaster, who explains hes the guy behind it all; he just wanted to test a new mind control device. Ringmaster then sends DD outside through a trap door. DD realizes there is no law against implanting false memories, so he lets it be.
DD pays one last visit to his lawyer Kate. They had been feeling an attraction shortly after they met, but Kate realizes that since she can never know whos under the mask she wants nothing more to do with him. Later Matt and Foggy have a few beers in a bar, celebrating the "victory".
*There are no windows open at the bar where Matt and Foggy drink, so it could be snowing outside, as it is seen this night in UXM 00 (part 2).
SUN 25
1:00 PM-5:00 PM PPSM2 30
After his previous apartment gets destroyed by his fight with the Thousand in TW 2-3, Peter is now relocated. He has moved into another new apartment, shown here for the first time, given the way the new place is played up (introduced to the reader), so that would place these issues before ASM2 30. This is confirmed by the empty bookshelves and the answering machine placed on a moving box. Randy, Jill and Glory have probably helped Peter move a few days before this issue (since Peter already knows Caryn) and they play games as a way of having a 'house-warming' party. Caryn is first seen in this issue, but she and Peter have already met. We see a hot "humid" day for which air conditioning is required. Peter's answering machine says he's "still settling into his new digs". Peter says he's "not much of a baseball fan", but this isn't true, he's just preoccupied. It's "Sunday", "3:00PM" when Peter leaves his apartment and already a "nice night" (that looks like an early evening) just before Spidey battles Fusion, a villain who blames Spider-Man for his child's death and appears here for the first time. The encounter ends in an office building explosion that rocks downtown Manhattan killing 300 people.
TUE 27
12:30 PM-3:00 PM PPSM2 31
Peter's scratches from the explosion in PPSM2 30 are shown as he showers. Peter's TV and answering machine are still on moving boxes. It's "afternoon" when Caryn asks Peter to watch Barker "for a couple of days" while she goes to Vegas. NY News broadcasts a videotape of Fusion, who refers to the explosion in PPSM2 30 as "recent", so this issue is not necessarily the same day as the previous issue. Indeed, Peter has come to terms with the 300 deaths from the explosion and refuses to blame himself. Fusion's videotape spurs Peter to action, as he does research at the Midtown Public Library (so it's not Sunday) and discovers where to find Fusion. He finds the villain, battles him, and is defeated.
3:00 PM-4:00 PM PPSM2 32
The same day as PPSM2 31, Fusion takes Spidey to his place, where Spidey figures out and overcomes Fusion's power of suggestion and defeats him. Then he goes home and feeds Barker.
THU 29
10:00 PM-10:30 PM ASM2 30 (1-4)
A night, Spider-Man goes out on rounds after not answering his aunt's phone call (Peter's answering machine has not changed from PPSM2 30-31, books are in a bookcase and the phone is on a table).
*Probably earlier this day or the following day Peter gives Barker back to Caryn with apparently no chance for her to thank him.
*The full moon is shown here due to artistic license, should be shown as getting close to full moon phase.
FRI 30
6:00 AM-9:00 AM ASM2 30 (5-11)
The day after ASM2 30 (1-4), after taking his ire out on a building scheduled for demolition, Peter visits his old high school. There he meets Joey, a kid being abused by three other students, and Kyle Jacoby, a teacher.
DECEMBER
MON 3
9:00 PM-10:00 PM ASM2 30 (12-22)
Spider-Man taunts students who abused Joey, then meets Ezekiel Simms (first seen in this issue). Dex pays to keep Morlun's ship at the docks, Morlun (a human vampire, first seen in this issue) states they'll go in search of the slain German hero's replacement "tomorrow".
TUE 4
8:00 AM-10:00 AM ASM2 31
Peter makes reference to having met Ezekiel "last night". Morlun detects Spidey for the first time. Peter's visit to his old high school is noted as having occurred "the other day", not yesterday (suggesting that a gap exists between pages 11 and 12 of ASM2 30). It is a school day. Peter applies for a job as a substitute teacher when a student with a gun goes nuts inside the school being later stopped by Spider-Man with Joey's help, then the science teacher quits and Pete announces that he's the new science teacher; we dont see him get offered the job, although that may have occurred between pages 20 and 21 or Peter might have said it knowing it's almost a sure thing he'll get the job seeing how the last science teacher just quit.
* It is June in the calendar hanging on Aunt May's kitchen, but this should be topical.
THU 6
6:00 AM-5:00 PM ASM2 32 (1-20)
At dawn Spidey catches an armed hostage taker as he states he's "almost late for work". Later Peter has his "first day" teaching ("Tomorrow" is noted as being a school day as well, its probably Thursday and Ezekiel indicates that school will still be in session for a week or two). Peter and Ezekiel have dinner after school and. Morlun is still "preparing for the hunt" for Spidey; he's taking his time "using whatever unholy rituals may be appropriate". Ezekiel warns peter about Morlun and offers him sanctuary but Peter doesn't accept it.
*Principal Harrington (the Principal at Peter's school) is first seen in this issue, and probably Jennifer Hardesty (a student) is first seen here as well.
*Peter states he was fifteen when bitten by the radioactive spider; Ezekiel indicates being currently 57 years old.
SAT 8
6:00 PM-8:00 PM PPSM2 34
Aunt May buys Peter a set of salt and pepper shakers for his new home. There is no indication that she knows Peter's secret identity; in fact, there is none of the tension we see between Peter and May during the time just after the discovery. Peter notes that he has "a bunch of papers to mark for school" and that they're due Friday, so this issue occurs after ASM2 32 (1-20). Caryn pops by to thank Peter for watching Barker, so it is likely shortly after the couple of days she was out of town (starting PPSM2 31), but not necessarily right after (she's not picking up Barker). She takes Peter to a Funfair in Central Park, which probably occurs on a weekend. We see carnival rides, green grass and trees, and mild weather. Then Spider-Man battles a guy named William at the fair. Caryn meets Jill Stacy there.
*It is September in a calendar hanging on a wall of the monastery where William was staying but this should be topical or maybe the "nun of the month" depicted is Brother Richard's favorite and he has left her there since September.
SUN 9
8:00 PM-9:00 PM ASM2 32 (21-23)
One night, shortly after ASM2 32 (1-20), (probably three days after, given that this night may be Sunday). Morlun, ready to deal with Spidey, creates carnage to draw him out, and his deeds force a TV station to interrupt a nighttime baseball game to cover the story. The announcer notes that "it looks like once again nobody is going to stop the Yankees from heading for the next World Series" (placing this in December shouldnt be a problem since MLB had to suspend its games after September 11). Spider-Man and Morlun face each other at last.
9:00 PM-12:00 AM ASM2 33 (1-21)
Spider-Man continues his battle with Morlun for "three hours", late enough for Letterman's show to be on, then escapes.
MON 10
6:00 AM-6:30 AM ASM2 33 (22)
After escaping Morlun (and probably resting hiding somewhere for a few hours) Spider-Man sees Ezekiel and asks for his help.
6:30 AM-8:00 PM ASM 34
The same day as ASM2 33 (22) Ezekiel refuses to help Spidey, who then rejoins the battle with Morlun, calling in sick to school during a break in the fighting an hour before class and after fighting for "nearly 12 hours straight". During another break, he calls Aunt May, who offers to drop by Peter's apartment tomorrow morning to pick up Peter's spring clothes for the cleaner. At the docks Ezekiel joins the fray and after Morlun feeds on him, falls to the water and is thought to be dead. Spidey escapes Morlun, taking a blood sample to examine. That night, Spidey heads to a nuclear power plant.
*Aunt May saying out with the winter clothes, in with the summer must be topical or she may have wanted to say it backwards.
11:00 PM-12:00 AM ASM2 35 (1-15)
The same night as ASM2 34, Spidey gets another dose of radiation, Morlun finds Spider-Man at the power plant and they battle. Morlun is vanquished by the radiation and Spidey heads back to the city.
*The full moon is shown here due to artistic license, should be shown as leaving full moon phase.
TUE 11
12:00 AM-8:30 AM ASM2 35 (16-23)
Back in the city (probably past midnight at this point) Spider-Man rests on a rooftop and then figures out Ezekiel to be alive. Battered and bruised, he goes to bed and sleeps past 2:32 AM, 3:15 AM, and 4:21 AM. Aunt May arrives bright and early to pick up Peter's cleaning as promised and she discovers Peter's secret as Pete still slumbers.
8:30 AM-5:30 PM ASM2 37 (blowing leaves)
The same day as the end of ASM2 35, May leaves Peter without waking him, a scrap of Spidey's costume tucked into her bag. Next we see Peter teaching that same day, and after classes, he tries to call Aunt May, but she's been out wandering, trying to make sense of her discovery, wearing the same clothes, with a scrap of Spideys costume tucked into her bag. Peter mentions that he tries to call May at the same time (3:35 PM) each day and she's always there; Anna Watson mentions that it is Tuesday. Early that evening, Spidey helps some school kids and returns to his apartment. May calls Peter and tells him they must talk. Blowing leaves and full moon.
*Dominic, a colleague teacher of Peter's school is first seen in this issue.
*The full moon is shown here due to artistic license, should be shown as leaving full moon phase.
5:30 PM-9:00 PM ASM2 38 (blowing leaves)
Same night as ASM2 37 (Tuesday). May arrives at Peter's apartment and they have "the conversation", which lasts a few hours. Then May goes home and Spidey heads out on patrol.
*Apparently May doesnt give too much thought to Peters secret for a few months after this issue until the Green Goblins televised video of Gwen Stacys death in PPSM2 45 (1-3).
WED 12
6:00 PM-6:30 PM TW 7-9-FBs (rain)
A rainy evening, Charlie Clemmens, a taxi driver, crashes his cab against a police car that is chasing three bank thieves. Charlie gets trapped as he tries to get out of his cab. Spider-Man stops one of the crooks trying to kill the policeman who's made it out of his crashed patrol, as another crook throws the bank money down a sewer. The two cars start getting on fire and Spidey rescues Charlie who informs him his son is trapped inside the cab. Once saved the boy accidentally unmasks Spidey. Thus, Charlie learns Peter Parker is Spider-Man.
*The three bank robbers are eventually acquitted a few days later (as seen in a Bugle clip Charlie keeps, in TW 7) as no evidence (the bank money) is found.
MON 24 Christmas Eve
5:30 PM-9:00 PM TW 21
Peter (who is missing MJ terribly) leaves a party on Christmas Eve at the Bugle to do Jonah a favor and get a present for Marla at a store where the Wasp, Sue Richards and Crystal are also going; there they find the Puppet Master mind-controlling Medusa and Flash Thompson (disguised as Spidey), trying to rob the store. They catch the Puppet Master with the help of the rest of the Fantastic Four. Later the Thing takes Alicia to visit the Puppet Master in jail and after shopping, Peter, Flash and Jonah head to Jameson's house where Aunt May is waiting with MJ (who just got back after her plane was forced to land in Phily because of the snowstorm) and Marla Madison to celebrate Christmas.
*Peter saying it took "two months" to convince MJ to come to spend the holidays shouldn't be too much of a exaggeration since they've been apart for about a month and a half, Betty mentioning "Ned is waiting at home" is a mistake or maybe she dedicates some time to Ned's memory every Christmas.
FRI 28
8:30 PM-9:00 PM TW 5 (1-7)
Rhino rescues Stella Pavlov, the kidnapped daughter of a gangster boss, and then is captured by Spider-Man. Stella leaves with Romeo, an employee of her father.
SAT 29
9:00 AM-12:00 AM TW 5 (8-14) NSA
The day after TG 5 (1-7) a guard gives the Rhino the paper with the news of his capture by Spidey, he gets mad and escapes a high security prison. Once out, Rhino learns at the Mexican border lab where he got his hide that they can't take it off without killing him. There they are experimenting on a monkey with increased intelligence.
That night he can't sleep and two hours later at the V-Bar, Romeo tells him his boss wants Rhino's help with Stella.
SUN 30
11:00 AM-10:00 PM TW 5 (15-20) (rain) NSA
The morning after TW 5 (8-14) Rhino meets Fyodor Rebrov, the gangster boss father of Stella and gets asked to watch over her.
It's raining when he sees her later but he leaves after she offends him.
After taking out his rage running through walls Rhino contemplates suicide on top of the Brooklyn bridge but decides not do it.
MON 31
5:00 PM-5:30 PM TW 5 (21-22) NSA
Probably the day after TW 5 (15-20) Rhino gets operated to get increased intelligence at the Mexican border lab.
JANUARY
WED 2
9:00 AM-4:00 PM TW 6 (1-12)
"Two days" after Rhino's brain operation, they run some tests on him at the Mexican border lab. Later that day he outsmarts Spider- Man and flees with Stella who seems to have started liking him.
11:00 AM-8:00 PM TW 7 (1-10) (bare trees)
Probably a few weeks after the night of the flashbacks throughout the storyline, Charlie Clemmens is diagnosed with cancer and learns he needs half a million dollars to be operated. Then he has a sudden headache as he is starting up his car and has a flashback to a police persecution on a rainy night.
Later that night he spots three crooks assaulting a woman and calls Peter Parker at the Daily Bugle to show up as Spider-Man.
THU 3
9:00 AM-9:30 AM TW 6 (13) NSA
The next day after TW 6 (1-12), Mindworm and Gibbon are reading in prison the news about Spidey being fooled by Rhino when he breaks in and offers them to work for him.
4:00 PM-11:30 PM TW 7 (11-19) (bare trees) NSA
Probably the day after TW 7 (1-10) Charlie Clemmens sees his wife (they are separated) and thinks about doing something with his knowledge of Spidey's secret. Later he has another headache attack and remembers the same rainy nigh with the police after some bank robbers. Then he calls Seeds (the guy in charge of that bank robbery, who is playing cards with his accomplices) but hangs up.
*One of Seeds accomplices states Spider-Man has been watching over them "since the trial".
FRI 4
9:00 AM-9:30 AM TW 7 (20-22) NSA
Probably the day after TW 7 (1-19) Charlie goes to church and asks a father if it's a sin to break a trust in order to save a life (thinking about revealing Spidey's secret). The father can't answer.
3:30 PM-9:00 PM TW 8 (1-7) (bare trees)
Charlie calls Spider-Man at the Bugle to save a suicide jumper. Later that night he goes to see his sick son Benny and gives him an autographed picture of Spider-Man. His son asks if they can go somewhere on "Friday".
SAT 5
10:30 AM-9:00 PM TW 8 (8-22) (full moon, bare trees, blowing leaves) NSA
Probably the day after TW 8 (1-7) Seeds and his gang hesitate to rob a bank fearing Spidey may show up. 
Later Charlie gets a job as a security guard at a diamond store; they ask him to start on "Monday". Then he sees his wife and asks her to tell his son he is sorry he won't be able to take him out.
That night he offers Seeds and his gang robbing the jewelry store where he's going to work and revealing Spider-Man secret in exchange for half of the 'take'. (Charlie reveals knowing they robbed a bank and were chased by the police on that rainy night he is been remembering).
9:30 PM-11:30 PM TW 9 (1-9) (bare trees)
The same night as TW 8 (8-22) Charlie Clemmens outlines the conditions of his plan for a jewel heist to Seeds and his accomplices and reveals knowing one of the crooks threw the bank money down a sewer, being chased by the police on that rainy night.
To prove he can deliver Spider-Man they use Seeds' girlfriend to rob a pharmacy. Charlie calls Spider-Man and he shows up to stop the robbery. They agree on "Friday" as the day for the heist. Spider-Man decides he needs to talk to Charlie.
FRI 11
12:00 PM-9:30 PM TW 9 (10-19)
After the heist on "Friday" Charlie gets half of the 'take' and gives Seeds an address where he'll meet Spider-Man "tonight at nine". A Spidey convention takes place at the given address; there, Spider-Man and Charlie trap Seeds and his two fellows; then Charlie suffers another headache attack and collapses.
TUE 15
7:00 PM-7:30 PM TW 9 (20-23)
Probably a few days after TW 9 (10-19) at the hospital, Benny Clemmens has been operated and Charlie lies in a comatose state (remembering the rainy night when Benny accidentally unmasked Spider-Man). His wife explains to the doctor how she didn't have a cent and then one "night" half a million in cash appeared on her dresser. The doctor states it bought her son's life.
THU 17
5:30 PM-10:00 PM PPSM2 36 (1-11) NSA
Billy Fender, a private investigator, obsessed with finding Spider-Man's identity states being six years after his "big score" and remembers the first time he saw Spidey.
FRI 18
8:00 AM-10:00 AM PPSM2 36 (11-22)
After remembering a day when he had just started working at an insurance company, Billy Fender quits his job and heads to the Bugle, there he sees Jameson expecting to get a deal because he thinks he's just discovered that Jonah is Spidey.
*There aren't many clues about placement of this issue but not real reason to move it out of publication order either. Joe Robertson and Brother Richard (from PPSM2 34 and 37) appear here, and probably Billy Walters, Ben Urich and Peter Parker too (21p1-p2).
WED 30
5:30 PM-9:30 PM TW 6 (14-15) NSA
"A month" after his operation in TW 5 (21-22) The Rhino is already the kingpin of a citywide crime syndicate, is in love with Stella and has forced a court injunction stopping Spidey coming within half a mile of him after reading American law "last Tuesday". As Rhino and Stella come back from the opera he gets a call from his brain operation doctor.
THU 31
2:00 PM-2:30 PM TW 6 (16) NSA
At the Mexican border lab the monkey with increased intelligence has committed suicide. Rhino learns the effects of his brain operation don't stop and his intelligence keeps increasing on and on.
FEBRUARY
FRI 1
9:00 PM-10:00 PM DL 2/2 (1-2)
Peter calls Aunt May at "9 o'clock" to let her know that he may not be home for dinner" (which he's probably started doing lately, as seen in other Spider-Man titles) and Jonah asks him to make sure Spider-Man shows up for the shooting of a G.M. commercial with Jay Leno "tomorrow".
Jay Leno has drinks with friends not expecting Spidey to show up.
SAT 2
8:00 PM-8:30 PM DL 2/2 (3-5)
After catching a couple of thieves Spider-Man heads to the shooting of a commercial with Jay Leno. As Jay and Spidey seat on the hood of a car and are about to start shooting, a heavy light starts falling to them.
8:30 PM-9:00 PM SM:B 1/2
After evading a falling heavy light, Spider-Man and Jay Leno are attacked by gunned people inside the studio where they were doing a commercial. They escape to the street where Leno gets his motorcycle.
9:30 PM-10:00 PM SM:QOL 1/2 (1-4)
After escaping gunned people on Leno's motorcycle and then beating them and some ninjas, Jay and Spider-Man learn they've been set up to be filmed for some kind of reality programming. Spidey asks to be in the "Tonight Show".
SUN 3
3:00 PM-3:30 PM TW 6 (17) NSA
Probably a few days after TW 6 (16) Rhino is tired of Stella and finds love ridiculous; she leaves him and goes back to Romeo.
MON 4
9:00 PM-9:30 PM TW 6 (18-19) (full moon)
Probably the day after TW 6 (17) Rhino sees Spider-Man and reveals knowing his secret, then gives him computer discs with details of his criminal empires that won't be of any use to him where he is going; he is finding life utterly futile.
At the top of the Brooklyn bridge he thinks about suicide but again doesn't do it.
TUE 5
4:00 PM-4:30 PM TW 6 (20) NSA
Probably the day after TW 6 (18-19) Rhino is back at the Mexican border lab to reverse the intelligence operation and go back to be as stupid as he was before.
11:30 PM SM:QOL 1/2 (5) (full moon)
Spider-man appears on the "Tonight Show" with Jay Leno to talk about their adventure "last weekend", he chokes.
*This event is referenced as happening "last month" in SM:SC 1.
THU 7
2:00 PM TW 11-FB (27p4-p5)
Miss Kay, a reporter from the Bugle, asks Peter out while at the Library to go to the Mir Exhibit at the Moma on "February 14th" but he doesn't seem to pay attention thinking of Aunt May, Doc Ock and a past due bill.
*In TW 11 these events are said to have happened "last week".
SAT 9
9:30 PM-10:30 PM SM:B 3
Peter resumes narrating his memories of how he fell in love with Gwen Stacy, probably a while after SM:B 2 as he starts his narration saying: "...When I started out making these tapes...".
*Narration only.
SUN 10
FF3 40-41
Peter Parker takes pictures of the Baxter Building just appeared from space. Later Spidey has a heart-to-heart talk with Johnny Storm on top of the Statue of Liberty.
MON 11
10:00 AM-10:30 AM TW 6 (21-22) NSA
A few days after his intelligence reversing brain operation the Rhino is back running through walls, Stella is already married to Romeo, who is now running her father's organization. Romeo is having a meeting when Rhino, working for the competition, breaks in to beat them up.
WED 13
DEF2 1 (4-38)
The 'big four' Defenders get cursed by Yandroth. It is one day, "three weeks" after Def2 1 (1-3).Spidey, behind the scenes, battles a horde of demons with other heroes.
THU 14 Valentine's Day
4:00 PM TW 11-FB (27p7-p8)
While at the Bugle's lunchroom, Miss Jill (another reporter) invites Peter out to meet at the Coffee Bean and go to see a play. Since he's thinking of Aunt May, a medical bill and Electro (Peter might just have learned that he is at large in the city and thinks that capturing him is going to take the rest of his night) and doesn't seem to know what to say she makes sure he'll remember by writing the time to meet her (8:00) on his arm.
*These events are said to have happened "today" in TW 11.
4:30 PM-5:00 PM TW 10
On a "freezing" afternoon (probably the prelude of the coming snowstorm seen in TW 11) Spider-Man captures Electro after breaking the wall of a couple of kids' house. Then Spidey leaves them a check he was going to use for the rent (which means he is not leaving at his aunt's by this time), to repair the damages.
*The oldest kid cancels going out with a girl (Valentine's Day?) to watch his little brother because their mother is sick in bed.
6:00 PM-6:30 PM SM:B 1-FB (1-5)
Spider-Man stops by the Brooklyn bridge to leave a rose on top of it as a way to remember Gwen Stacy, as he does "once a year in Valentine's Day". 
*Later this day Peter begins his tape recordings telling how he fell in love with Gwen shown in SM:B 1-6. The full moon seen here must be topical.
7:00 PM-10:30 PM TW 11 (snow starting to fall)
The Vulture activates a bomb that knocks Spider-Man unconscious after he tries to catch him for robbing a jewelry store. While unconscious Peter misses meeting not one but two girls at the Coffee Bean for Valentine's Day. Later the Vulture visits an old girlfriend and gives her the jewel he just stole.
*Jameson mentions Peter is now a teacher. Somebody that looks like Billy Walters (from earlier Spider-Man issues) appears here and is called Edwards by JJJ.
11:00 PM-11:30 PM SM:B 1
It's Valentine's Day and "not feeling like being anybody's Valentine" Peter starts tape recording how he fell in love with Gwen Stacy.
*Narration only. SM:B 2 (Narration only) may also take place on this day.
11:30 PM-12:00 AM SM:B 2
Probably the same day as SM:B 1, as Peter mentions he just put down the tape recorder for "a second", he continues narrating his memories of how he fell in love with Gwen Stacy.
*Narration only.
FRI 15
6:30 AM-11:30 AM PPSM2 37-FB (4p3-16) (snowstorm)
Peter awakens with a cold (probably caused by laying unconscious for a few hours during the snowstorm on TW 11) on the morning of a school day in which he has no "lesson plans prepared", only to discover that a blizzard (Peter's exaggeration: "about fifty feet of snow piled up") on the "coldest day on record" in New York City has forced school cancellations. Aunt May calls Peter to ask him to come dig her out of a snowdrift; Peter offers subway cancellation as an excuse for not coming over, but May doesn't accept the excuse, which may be a sign she not only knows Peter is Spider-Man, but that she's known long enough (more than a month) to feel somewhat comfortable with the knowledge. Barker watches Spidey leave; on the way he finds the Vulture who gets mad at Spidey for "always" interfering at his every turn, now after just assaulting again a diamond store (as in TW 11). After a fight the Vulture dares Spidey to meet him in thirty minutes at the site of their first battle.
12:00 PM-12:30 PM PPSM2 37 (1-4p2) (snowstorm)
Half and hour after PPSM2 37-FB, Spidey contemplates the day's events waiting for the Vulture.
12:30 PM-2:00 PM PPSM2 37 (17-22) (snowstorm)
Forty five minutes after PPSM2 37 (1-4p2). Spidey battles the Vulture with the Human Torch at his side. It is not seen if they capture the Vulture. Later Peter digs Aunt May out as the radio announces that the temperature is in "the minus thirties" with "an additional wind-chill factor of minus twenty."
SAT-SUN 16-17
IA 1-6 
Spidey gets involved in the Infinity Abyss adventure, which occurs over the course of eighteen hours. Green grass and trees are seen in upstate New York in this series, but Spidey mentions it is winter.
FRI 22 
4:00 PM-6:00 PM PPSM2 38 (1-20)
Peter, wearing a sweater, brings a stack of papers home to grade and Caryn, in her usual scant wardrobe, chases after Barker. Later Spider-Man battles the Mimes.
*Brother Ian and Brother Richard from PPSM2 34 also appear in this issue.
SAT 23
12:00 AM-12:30 AM PPSM2 38 (21-22)
Caryn sleeps holding the Teddy Bear Peter won for her in PPSM2 34 as Peter falls asleep past midnight, marking papers for school.
11:00 AM-11:30 AM PPSM2 39 (1-3) NSA
After his wife states he'll be "out of town for the weekend", Congressman Bradley Miles loses his arm being attacked by a mind controlled octopus at the beach, the month previous to PPSM2 39 (4-15).
TUE 26
3:00 PM TW 12-FB (1p2-p3) NSA
Vincent Colorito A.K.A. Leapfrog is released from Evansville penitentiary under house arrest.
*These scenes are shown on the TV news in TW 12 (1-5) as happening "earlier today".
5:00 PM-8:00 PM TW 12 (1-5) NSA
At his aunts' house Eugene Colorito sees the news about his dad being released from prison earlier and worries about the guys at school making fun of his father "tomorrow", then Vincent comes to pick up his son and move to their own house.
*This story has some contradictions with already established facts about the characters' previous history.
WED 27
3:30 PM-6:00 PM TW 12 (6-11) (blowing leaves)
It's "Wednesday" and guys at school make fun of Eugene's dad. When he gets home Spider-Man comes to check on Leapfrog, Vincent promises he is back on the straight and narrow for good.
*Typeface is mentioned.
THU 28
2:00 PM-6:30 PM TW 12 (12-16) (blowing leaves) NSA
After another day of people's jokes about his father, Eugene gets home and finds out his father got a job doing a commercial taking a beating from the owner of a car shop. He goes out and school kids throw frogs at him. He decides to use one of the Frogman costumes.
MARCH
FRI 1
9:30 PM-10:30 PM TW 12 (17-21) (blowing leaves, full moon) NSA
Eugene goes out on patrol as Frogman on "Friday night" and tries to scare loitering school kids at a gas station; when they are beating him up his father shows and rescues him.
SAT 2
10:00 PM-10:30 PM TW 12 (22)
It's "Saturday night" and Vincent Colorito hears about his son's excursion as Frogman making the local news and worries about people making fun of him.
MON 11
TB 57-58
Spidey is among the horde of heroes suspended in mid-air by Graviton.
WED 13
6:00 AM-11:00 AM TW 13-FB (16p3-20p4)
Human Torch attacks Al Kraven while he is fighting some gangsters. Al knocks Johnny out but Spider-Man shows up and together they send Kraven to jail. "A few" hours later Al's attorney gets him out of jail.
*These events happen the same week as TW 13.
4:30 PM-5:00 PM TW 13-FB (25p4-30)
Spider-Man stops Vulture from pulling an armored car heist on the Jersey turnpike. The Vulture manages to escape after fighting in a farm.
*These scenes are said to happen "this week, Wednesday afternoon " in TW 13.
SAT 16
9:30 PM-11:30 PM TW 13 (rain) NSA
On a rainy night, after having a bad week were they fought Spidey, Al Kraven and the Vulture have a few drinks with Norman Osborn at the V-Bar. Osborn confesses having killed Spidey's girlfriend some years ago.
*Timber Hughes is first seen in this story. While they are said to have gone out a few times she doesn't seem to be officially Al's girlfriend yet (Al is making out with his attorney after she gets him out of jail). The Falcon is mentioned to be using an armored costume; The Vulture mentions he was dating a woman for nine months to then being dumped, which would explain why he sees and old girlfriend he's not seen for years on Valentine's Day in TW 11. Dr. Octopus is seen with a green and white version of his costume, he probably changes white for yellow shortly after as he is seen in PPSM2 39. The Rocket Racer must be taken to prison after this story to be seen there later with his hair grown in TW 16-17. Green Goblin is probably last seen using his classic costume before going with a new bulkier one in PPSM2 44. 
FRI 22
10:00 AM-6:00 PM PPSM2 39 (4-15)
At a technology exhibit Peter's class is attending, he detects something unusual with congressman Miles not hiding his association with Biotechnix, the company that provided him with a prosthetic limb after losing his arm "last month".
Peter calls Joe Robertson, who had been running an article about Biotechnix "last month", and Robbie tells Peter they had some leads on a shady connection between Miles and Biotechnix "a couple of weeks ago" but Jonah wasn't interested in the story. Daredevil then tells Spider-Man that a sample micro chip Peter got at the exhibit probably came from a Biotechnix building in Chinatown.
Fusion, who is presumably manipulating Dr. Octopus, hurries Doc Ock to finish a limb for "tomorrow".
Spidey then sees congressman Miles and promises to uncover his connection with Biotechnix. Robbie keeps failing at getting Jonah interested in the story.
SAT 23
5:00 AM-5:30 AM PPSM2 39 (16-22)
Spider-Man checks out Biotechnix warehouse and finds Dr. Octopus and after fighting him for a while Fusion appears.
5:30 AM-11:00 AM PPSM2 40 (1-11)
Having learned they are after some kind of 'device', Spider-Man escapes Fusion and Dr. Octopus taking with him a prosthetic arm and Doc Ock's briefcase. Joe Robertson convinces Jonah to uncover story behind congressman after Jameson not finding it interesting "yesterday". Later Peter calls a number from Doc Ock's briefcase (there he also finds a name, John Hancock and the codename GL-52) and figures recent accidents to recipients of prosthetic arms to be premeditated. Later Fusion states that incriminating information was stolen by Spidey "today", and forces Miles to go ahead and get the 'device' "tonight".
SUN 24
7:00 PM-8:00 PM PPSM2 40 (12-23)
Spider-Man sees Nick Fury and states having looked for information about GL-52 in the Internet "last night", then explains that someone would be able to mind control the amputees through a receiver in the artificial limbs. Fury reveals "John Hancock" is actually a radiation-tracking device that was just stolen "last night".
After getting the device (that Fusion wanted to use to track down Spidey) from a mind controlled S.H.I.E.L.D. operative amputee, Dr. Octopus reveals to Fusion he was pretending to be serving him in order to get what he wanted, then kills S.H.I.E.L.D. operative an beats down Fusion.
Joe Robertson has by this time broken down the scandal in "today's" Bugle, Miles is under custody and the connection has been made between Biotechnix and the stolen device.
Spider-Man goes to Biotechnix and finds the S.H.I.E.L.D. operative dead and Fusion hanging unconscious from the ceiling.
8:00 PM-10:30 PM PPSM2 41
Spider-Man calls ambulance for Fusion and then finds out Biotechnix is also constructing a building; he heads there and finds Dr. Octopus (who unlike Fusion didn't want to use the device but just sell it). Spidey thwarts his operation, fights him and smashes the device. After causing Doc Ock to fall Spidey saves him from falling through the building with his tentacles damaged. Spidey then gives back the damaged device to Nick Fury and tells him where to find Octopus, then leaves knowing they won't be able to track anybody by his radiation signature anymore.
*Fury is actually not seen taking custody of Doc Ock, so he probably escapes before Nick gets there as Octopus is seen free in later Spider-Man adventures.
MON 25
2:30 PM-4:30 PM DEF2 9
Patsy Walker and Valkyrie move to an apartment together. The Headmen allied to M.O.D.O.K use Orrgo to conquer the world. Thor Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four show up to battle him but are turned into creatures by Orrgo. Valkyrie, Nighthawk and Hellcat, immune to Orrgo's mind control contact Dr. Strange.
4:30 PM-6:30 PM DEF2 10
The Headman and Orrgo bring villains out of time and space to battle the Defenders, but Nighthawk manages to get totem to control Orrgo; M.O.D.O.K. escapes. Spider-man, Thor and the Fantastic Four are turned back to themselves by Orrgo and villains are sent back whence they came. Orrgo departs promising not to come back and the Defenders decide to help Namor to liberate Atlantis from Attuma.
*Dr. Octopus, who was captured by Spider-Man in PPSM2 41, might have managed to escape after being brought by Orrgo to battle the Defenders, he is seen free in later Spider-Man adventures.
WED 27
6:00 PM-12:00 AM SM:SC 1 (1-11) (full moon)
J. Jonah Jameson asks Peter's help to convince Spidey to be auctioned off at the Daily Bugle Celebrity Auction for the WTC victims on "Friday". The Thing and Human Torch also try to convince Spider-Man. The Scorpion and Al Kraven hear about it in Jay Leno's show.
*There's a flag on top of the Daily Bugle building, probably because of the July 4th proximity. The Avengers are said to be on to Afghanistan on the cover of the Daily Bugle. As noted by others, this story should happen long after 9/11, so it is likely camping season of the following year. We also have to leave enough time for Hawkeye to finish his covert assignment in Thunderbolts to appear here. Spider-Man appeared on The Tonight Show last month. The moon might be getting really close to full moon phase here.
FRI 29
4:00 PM-11:00 PM SM:SC 1 (12-17) (full moon)
It's "Friday" and after eating at his aunt's house Spider-Man attends the Daily Bugle Celebrity Auction for the WTC victims. Al Kraven bids for Spidey and J. Jonah Jameson to take a camping trip together. Later that night as Jonah gets ready for the trip Joe Robertson mentions JJJ will be back "Sunday night", Spidey helps a couple being assaulted.
*Thor appears here with his classic costume, without beard. Rogue appears here behind the scenes before being injured in X-treme X-Men 12-18. Aunt May knows Peters secret ID.
SAT 30
12:00 PM-10:30 PM SM:SC 1 (18-32) (full moon, green grass and trees and warm weather)
As they are having a lousy trip together, the Scorpion watches Spider-Man and Jameson from a distance, biding his time to attack them. Al Kraven sees them on TV.
SUN 31
1:00 PM-4:00 PM SM:SC 1 (33-51)
The Scorpion attacks Jameson as he walks alone in the woods; Spider-Man comes to the rescue and makes Gargan follow him to a cave full of bears that knock down the Scorpion. Spidey wraps Scorpion with web fluid and they head to the city concluding their trip.
*The Scorpion is probably sent to prison later this day but must be released shortly a few days after as, other than scaring Jonah and fighting Spidey, didn't commit any other crime. He is seen free next in GK 1/2.
APRIL
MON 1
12:00 PM-5:00 PM PPSM2 33
Aunt May visits Uncle Ben's grave and Peter attends a Mets game on the anniversary of his death. This might be an early April game or even March 31st (since sometimes they open the season on that day) judging by the sign at the door of the stadium which seems to read: "Welcome to Opening Day".
6:00 PM-6:30 PM SM:SC 1 (52-56)
Jameson has published his story about the 'weekend of terror' he had camping with Spider-Man and is reunited with other celebrities at a Restaurant, Spidey swings by leaving a sign making fun of Jonah and some webbing in his chair.
*Wolverine and Rogue are said to have spent the weekend with Al Pacino and Beverly D'Angelo, Scott Baio had to golf with the Thing and the Vision, and Bruce Springsteen, Hawkeye, Kevin Spacey and Captain America went to dinner and the movies.
TUE 2
6:00 PM-9:00 PM PPSM2 42 (1-4) (full moon) NSA
The Sandman, his body spread at Jones Beach, swallows a couple of singers alive during "Spring Break" festivities for college students (it's probably late March or early April, the full moon would place this in early April).
WED 3
7:00 PM-9:30 PM PPSM2 42 (5-22)
After learning that two celebrities were "this morning" revealed to be missing at the Spring Break festivities, and seeing on TV another singer disappear, Spider-Man decides to investigate. At the scene he sees a bunch of people being swallowed by the "beach".
10:30 PM-11:30 PM PPSM2 43 (1-7)
After the events of PPSM2 42 (5-22) "earlier tonight", Spider-Man helps rescue people at the beach, then agrees to keep investigating "tomorrow". The Sandman begins to have "memories" from the minds of the celebrities he's swallowed.
THU 4
12:30 PM-8:30 PM PPSM2 43 (8-22)
Sandman shows up making no sense as the celebrities hes swallowed invade his mind, and then finally falls apart after he kept eating celebrities and his mind went nuts. Spider-Man goes home.
FRI 5
5:30 PM-10:30 PM SM/DD 1 (1-22) (full moon)
As Daredevil looks everywhere for a kidnapped girl, Spider-Man, out in the city the same night, without intending to do so, finds the kidnapped girl and rescues her.
*Ben Urich is seen at the Bugle reading the Daily Globe with a headline saying: "SPIDER-MAN SAVES DAY, LIVES" and a smaller one: Daredevil Thwarts Robbery". He is upset that Spidey gets the bigger press (The Bugle is probably concentrating on Caps death as headline material). He mentions Spidey saving "a couple of drunk high school kids" (these references might be alluding to the events in PPSM2 42-43. Daredevil hasn't yet ended his confident relationship with Ben in this issue. A Mets game is being played as DD looks for kidnapped child, so it is after the opening day of Mets season play shown in PPSM2 33.
SAT 6
6:00 AM-6:30 AM SM/DD 1 (23)
The morning after SM/DD 1 (1-22) Peter Parker and Matt Murdock are shown sleeping at their respective apartments as Ben Urich goes to work with the news of Spider-Man rescuing kidnapped child in the Daily Globe.
SUN 7
2:00 PM-2:30 PM CA3 50/6 (7-8)
Caps funeral, probably several days after CA3 50/4. A whole bunch of heroes shows up, including Thor (in classic costume), Spidey, Daredevil, the FF, the Avengers, the Defenders, Rick Jones, SHIELD, and the X-Men. Iron Man is not wearing the Grell-Ryan armor yet, so it is before A3 52. Thor is in his classic costume. Hawkeye is not seen at the funeral. We see that the Beast is not cat-like; we theorize that while Storm was dropping Hank off at the Mansion, they learned of Cap's death and decided to attend the funeral, even though Hank is injured. It is right after this that Hank mutates into his cat-like form. Spider-Man is here during the spring break in ASM2 43. Cap must emerge from presumed death right after this, and evidence of the injuries hes had since CA3 50/5 are seen in A3 45. 
THU 25
9:00 PM A3 51-FB (3p4) 
Spider-Man and Wolverine manage to stay free of Kangs armies.
MAY
SUN 12 Mother's Day
4:30 PM-5:30 PM SM:B 4
Peter continues narrating his memories of how he fell in love with Gwen Stacy, probably in a different day as SM:B 3 as he starts his narration with: "Hello, Gwen. Today, I want to talk about...Aunt May".
*Narration only.
TUE 14
5:00 PM-8:00 PM DD2 34 (rain)
J. Jonah Jameson has a press meeting with his reporters at the Daily Bugle, furious that another newspaper beat him to the DD's unmasking story. Ben Urich and Peter Parker deny Murdock is Daredevil saying they know who DD really is. Jameson tells them both to get out after they refuse to reveal DD's identity.
That night at their office Foggy tells Matt to give up being DD but he doesnt heed the advice, puts on the costume and leaves through the roof. Elektra in London and the Fantastic Four read the news and Peter changes to Spider-Man as Daredevil is jumping across rooftops.
8:30 PM-9:30 PM DD2 35 (1-18) (rain)
The same day as DD2 34 Daredevil spots a mugging taking place and catches the crooks. DD heads back towards his office and finds it under assault from Mr. Hyde (Mr. Hyde was represented in court by Murdock a few years back and now wants revenge). Spider-Man shows up to help DD and together they beat Mr. Hyde; then the two superheroes rush off into the night leaving Mr. Hyde unconscious in the street.
WED 15
7:00 PM-10:30 PM TW 16 (1-9) NSA
Tombstone has a heart attack during a bank robbery and is taken to a high security prison in an isle were the villains' powers are nullified. After they run some analysis on him and decide to ship him for surgery to the mainland in a few weeks, he is taken to share a cell with Jonathan Ohnn, A.K.A. the Spot.
THU 16
12:00 PM-5:00 PM TW 16 (10-15) NSA
The day after TW 16 (1-9) Tombstone gets in a fight with Kangaroo II inside prison. Later Tombstone forms a crew with Rocket Racer, Hypno-Hustler and Big Ben to get revenge on Kangaroo.
FRI 17
7:00 PM-9:30 PM TW 16 (16-18) NSA
Probably the day after TW 16 (10-15) Tombstone manages to get some scissors from a guy coming to kill him at the showers, who has seen him come in there alone. Later Tombstone learns Ohnn (who is up for parole in "three days") is teaching Kangaroo II how to read at the library twice a week, and decides to use that to kill Kangaroo.
SAT 18
12:30 PM-5:00 PM TW 16 (19-20) NSA
The day after TW 16 (16-18) Tombstone tells his crew they'll kill Kangaroo II "tomorrow" in the library when Ohnn goes to the bathroom. Kangaroo II and his crew also plan to kill Tombstone.
SUN 19
12:30 PM-4:00 PM TW 16 (21-23) NSA
The day after TW 16 (19-20) Tombstone is stopped by the prison guards from killing Kangaroo II.
MON 20
6:00 AM-3:30 PM TW 17 (1-19) NSA
"Three days" after TW 16 (16-18) the Spot is granted parole after revealing to have informed the guards of Tombstone's plot to kill Kangaroo II and having helped to educate inmates in the "past two years". A prison guard who wants Tombstone dead informs him of Ohnn's betrayal and omits to give him his medicine as Lonnie lays almost unconscious at a prison hole where he's been put after trying to kill Kangaroo. After Kangaroo II beats up Rocket Racer, Hypno-Hustler and Big Ben they are taken to the emergency room where Tombstone is also taken after being found unconscious. When he wakes up he learns he'll be taken out for a rescheduled surgery "this afternoon". As he is taken to the hospital Tombstone manages to escape with the Spot's help.
*Spot mentions during parole he was Tombstone's cellmate "for a short while".
JUNE
MON 3
9:30 AM-8:30 PM SM&BC 1 (full moon)
Felicia Hardy (staying in Hollywood) gets a call from a friend in New York, as the girl she is being asked to find is dumped inside a garbage car collector. She then flies to New York to investigate. In the time it takes the Black Cat to get to New York, Peter calls into school sick to nail some pushers to follow up the overdose death (two days ago) of a boy from the high school at which he teaches. That night, his leads bring Spidey to the apartment of Hunter Todd, where he encounters Black Cat. Todd and his girlfriend are killed by a heroin overdose, apparently by a Mr. Brownstone on the phone.
*Felicia mentions it's been a "long time" since she last was the Black Cat.
8:30 PM-11:00 PM SM&BC 2
Same night as SM&BC 1. Spidey and Black Cat compare notes. Later that night, they battle Scorpia who is attacking Garrison Klum. Spider-Man recognizes this guy to be Mr. Brownstone.
*Felicia mentions that its been five years since she and Peter split up, and Peter notes that its been a rough few months for him. Its easy to accept Peters flirting with Felicia if this series occurs after almost six months of Peter not seeing or talking to MJ. Mr. Brownstone mentions the Kingpin is blind and also believes him to be dead at the time of this story.
TUE 4
8:30 PM-11:30 PM SM&BC 3 (thunders and rain)
Mr. Brownstone gets rid of the Ortega family that sent Scorpia to kill him. It is the night after SM&BC 2 as they have been tracking Mr. Brownstone for "maybe twenty-four hours", Black Cat, disagreeing with Spideys methods of handling their case, sucker punches Spider-Man and decides to follow up on Mister Brownstone herself, only to fall victim to Brownstone, who has the power to teleport small amounts of liquids.
*Felicia notes that shes pushing thirty.
SUN 9
8:30 PM-9:00 PM DD2 35 (19-20) NSA
26 days after DD2 35 (9-18) Matt and Foggy talk privately in a hotel room with Ben Urich. Matt says he just got back from Japan and tells Ben that their
relationship (Ben as DD's confident) is going to have to end now for everyone's own good. He says hes holding a press conference "tomorrow".
MON 10
10:00 AM-10:30 AM DD2 35 (21-22)
The day after DD2 35 (19-20) Matt Murdock starts press conference outside Murdock & Nelson's law office.
10:30 AM-11:00 AM DD2 36 (1-4)
Matt holds his press conference. He gives a speech and says he is not Daredevil, then announces he is going to sue the Daily Globe, and its publisher, a Mr. Rosenthal, for millions of dollars in damages for 'slander' and 'emotional and reputation damage'.
8:00 PM-11:00 PM PPSM2 44 (rainstorm)
Norman Osborn visits Harry's grave, then cancels appointment for the "next couple of days" (which he probably uses to prepare a video of Gwen Stacy's death and send it to the media). 
Peter visits aunt May and tells her he's been having a dream over and over; then goes out as Spider-Man and calls MJ but doesn't know what to say making her believe a pervert is calling.
Later Spidey finds the Green Goblin (who is first seen here with a new bulkier costume) and fights him stating it's "June 10th"; the Goblin stabs Spidey and retreats promising to reunite "the family" with a funeral.
THU 13
7:00 PM-10:30 PM PPSM2 45 (1-13) (rainstorm)
Peter watches video of Gwen Stacy's death sent to the media by the Green Goblin. Aunt May also sees the video on TV. Norman sees Flash Thompson with a 'job offer'.
Peter then bursts inside a restaurant where Norman is having a meeting with Japanese executives; they argue and after a Japanese executive proposes Peter to stay Norman forces him out citing he has a school day "tomorrow".
Spider-Man then confronts J. Jonah Jameson and tells him the Goblin allegations are false.
FRI 14
12:30 AM-9:30 AM PPSM2 45 (14-22) (rainstorm)
Probably past midnight the Green Goblin forces Flash Thompson to drink whiskey. Later, as Peter has the same dream he's been having lately, a drunken Flash crashes to the wall of Peter's school with an Osborn Industries truck probably remote-controlled.
In the morning Peter learns Flash was behind the wheel of the truck, goes to the hospital to see him and hears a doctor tell Liz that Flash might have suffered irreversible brain damage.
10:00 AM-7:30 PM PPSM2 46 (rainstorm)
Back at his apartment Peter finds pictures of people close to him and a pumpkin courtesy of the Green Goblin.
Later that morning Peter goes back to his school and finds Norman who has dropped by to give a blank check for damages to the school; Osborn then dares Peter to meet him "tonight at seven".
Aunt May calls Peter saying she saw the Goblin's televised message "last night" as Spidey goes to visit Flash at the hospital and finds Felicia and other friends have sent get well cards and flowers.
Spider-Man then meets the Goblin and they start to fight.
7:30 PM-8:30 PM PPSM2 47 (1-17)
After having fought the Green Goblin for a while Spider-Man tells him about the dream he keeps having, then refuses to kill the Goblin as a tribute to Gwen Stacy's memory.
SAT 15
11:00 AM-11:30 AM PPSM2 47 (18-19)
Probably the morning after PPSM2 (1-17) Peter visits Flash Thompson at the hospital and apologizes to Liz for not coming to see him before.
MON 17
11:00 AM-11:30 AM PPSM2 47 (20-22)
Norman Osborn gets late to work on "Monday" and receives a surprise courtesy of Peter Parker, then contemplates suicide.
TUE 18
4:30 PM-10:30 PM PPSM2 48
Probably a few days after his battle with the Goblin Peter is still blaming himself for Flash's condition. Somewhere else Tara, a Buddhist deity, recovers a stolen gem at AGK Inc., a viral research company, leaving a scarf behind as a statement.
After he checks on Flash that night Spider-Man is led through some flowers left by Tara to feel a connection with events that happened far away. Two hours later he learns Flash's brain is not responding because of the crash, Spider-Man then meets Tara, who leads him to AGK Inc. leaving him another scarf.
*Pages 10-11 showing daylight should happen in between pages 5 and 6; it is night already on pages 6-9 and it's two hours later in pages 12-22. The full moon shown must be topical; should be a waxing crescent moon.
WED 19
5:00 PM-6:30 PM PPSM2 49 (2-20)
After having read on the Internet "last night" about Malpura being poisoned by a chemical leak from AGK years ago, Spider-Man sees an activist survivor of that case who informs him Tara, a Buddhist deity, is seeking vengeance against AGK with Spidey's help.
Tara is about to be attacked at AGK after demanding restitution when Spider-Man shows up. Together they fight a security agent who blames the CIA for paying them to test the virus and is later bathed with the chemicals becoming the Virus; he leaves swearing revenge.
THU 20
8:00 AM-8:30 AM PPSM2 49 (21-23)
Probably the next day after PPSM2 49 (2-20) Peter is reading about AGK denying link to CIA in poison gas leak when Tara appears behind him to whisper thanks, then looses herself into the crowd leaving a flower behind.
SUN 23
DL 2
Spidey battles Doc Ock on the Flatiron Building.
JULY
MON 1
11:00 AM-11:30 AM DD2 36 (5-13) NSA
The Black Widow pays a visit to Matt at his law office. Matt has Jessica Jones and Luke cage as bodyguards outside his office. Widow urges Matt to go put his costume on and let them jump around on some roofs. Matt denies her, and shows her the door. Widow then talks to Foggy and he tells her to leave him alone. Then she places a personal phone call, using a SHIELD priority code. 
11:00 AM-11:30 AM ALIAS 15 (2-10) NSA
As the Widow sees Matt Murdock, his bodyguards Jessica Jones and Luke Cage chat outside his office. Jessica mentions having a date with Scott Lang "tonight".
9:00 PM-9:30 PM ALIAS 15 (11-22)
Scott Lang and Jessica Jones have a date at a restaurant as Spider-Man and the Human Torch go after Dr. Octopus (he is probably not captured).
9:30 PM-11:30 PM DD2 36 (14-21) (full moon) NSA
The same night as DD2 36 (1-5) Matt has a private dinner with Vanessa Fisk, in the Fisk Towers. Vanessa tells Matt shes leaving America, that shes sold Fisk Towers to Donald Trump and the Kingpin is still in a coma, then she gives Matt a card with the name of the FBI agent who sold his identity to the newspaper. When he gets home he finds Elektra on the rooftop.
WED 3
12:30 AM-4:30 AM TW 15
Heather Krolnek, a Spidey fan, learns her father is a criminal as Spider-Man shows up to capture him when he is robbing a bank under the costumed identity of the Stag Beetle.
*Heather mentions her father has been leaving home at dawn "every other night this week"; she also mentions the Scorpion to be in jail, so it's probably during the few days Scorpion spends in jail after his capture in SM:SC 1. The Beetle is also believed to be in jail (she doesn't know he is out as Mach 2).
MON 8
ORDER 5-6
Spidey is one of the many heroes who unite to battle the Order.
7:30 PM-8:00 PM TW 17 (20-22) NSA
"Seven weeks" after TW 17 (1-19) the Spot shows up to see Tombstone (who has been operated for his heart condition) for some retribution after helping him to get out of prison. Tombstone breaks the Spot's neck killing him instead.
*The Spot mentions Spidey to be "currently" embroiled in a bout with Dr. Octopus (he is probably talking about their fights in DL 2 or ALIAS 15).
TUE 9
5:00 PM-10:00 PM TW 18 (waning crescent moon)
Spellcheck tries to ally Typeface when the later tries to capture the Penny-Ante gang. Then Spider-Man finds Spellcheck hanging from a pole at the train station.
*While this issue has been linked to the Thing: Freakshow mini-series, placing it probably the following week, I'll go with the waning crescent moon here, the Thing seating at a train station doesn't mean it's the only time he can be doing that.
WED 10
8:00 AM-8:30 AM ASM2 39-FB (3p4-p6)
Spider-Man catches terrorist group and gets kids out of harm's way.
*These scenes are seen in a news report in LA around 5:30am (8:30am in New York).
8:30 AM-8:00 PM ASM2 39 (1-5) NSA
Mary Jane sees news of Spidey on TV, does some modeling and later drinks coffee.
THU 11
12:00 AM-9:30 PM ASM2 39 (6-22p2) 
Mary Jane attends a movie premiere at night of the same day of ASM2 39 (1-5) (probably past midnight in New York at this point) and later at home watches the repeat of the Spider-Man news before going to sleep which she doesn't get to do until is time to get up already.
That morning in New York, aunt May cancels subscriptions to papers that don't like Spidey, she decides not to e-mail the Bugle though (in ASM2 40 May states she didn't cancel her Bugle subscription because she wanted to do it personally having known Jonah for so long), then tries to improve Spider-Man's image by writing to different TV shows.
At night Spider-Man rescues people from fire and after seeing MJ in a Times Square screen thinks about calling her but doesn't do it. Later Peter has dinner with his aunt.
FRI 12
3:30 AM ASM2 39 (22p3-p8)
Mary Jane, aunt May and Peter are shown sleeping (it's 3:33am in Peter's clock).
5:30 AM-9:00 PM ASM2 40 (warm weather)
Spider-Man catches two bank robbers before school. May tells Jonah that she's canceling her Bugle subscription. At night, Spider-Man battles the Shade after learning he has been abducting people to the Astral Plane; the Shade escapes. May informs Peter Mary Jane will be in town next week.
MON 15
8:00 PM-9:30 PM ASM2 41 (1-10p5)
Spider-Man talks to a police Lieutenant to help him find out about the Shade.
As she writes letters to different publications, before having dinner, May tells Peter Mary Jane called to confirm shed be flying in on "Tuesday".
*The full moon shown here should be topical.
TUE 16
8:00 AM-9:00 AM ASM2 41 (10p6-22) (rain)
Spider-Man learns the Shade might have gotten his powers from a jail mate called Richard Cranston, who is now in a mental institution. Then goes to see Dr. Strange.
*The full moon shown here should be topical.
9:00 PM-12:00 AM ASM2 42 (1-12)
"Tuesday", the day Peter is supposed to pick up MJ at the airport, Dr. Strange gives Spider-Man the Hand of Vishanti to go to the Astral Plane (the Doctor advises not to leave the path), Spidey goes there after the Shade abducts Jennifer Hardesty.
*Since time doesn't work the same in the Astral Plane as in reality, according to the Shade, at some point during their stay in the Astral Plane it's past midnight. (Page 12 has been picked up as that point).
WED 17
12:00 AM-6:00 AM ASM2 42 (13-22)
Spider-Man fights the Shade in the Astral Plane and after being thrown to where his abducted people had been staying, the Shade explodes. Spidey then helps people to get out of Astral Plane but lets himself to be drawn to a place where he finds a gigantic Spider, when he leaves he is still in Astral form and realizes it's already "Wednesday, July 17". Mary Jane can't see him in astral form when he finds her boarding a plane to go back to LA.
*After school being canceled by snow, probably the Kang War, and an Osborn Industries truck collision against 108 PS's wall, school must be still in session by this time of year, as it probably still is in X-Men Unlimited #36/1.
FRI 19
3:30 PM ASM2 43 (1p1-p6)
Peter is figuring out a way to apologize to Mary Jane for presumably standing her up in ASM2 42. It is the last day of school before a "holiday break", but it may be the last day of the school year, as we see kids celebrating and a banner that looks like it says, "Have a great summer", but its blocked and cant be read for certain. Peters conversation with a fellow teacher indicates that the break is lengthy enough for a trip or for finding a way to earn extra money.
*The school cancellations having pushed school to be still in session might explain why they are treating it as a break and not as a vacation.
FRI 26
4:00 PM TW 19-FB (2p1-p2) NSA
The Grizzly leaves prison probably a few days before TW 1 (1-10). and decides to go straight after getting some education in the joint.
SUN 28
T2 51
Spidey checks in with Thor to find out whats going on when Asgard appears over Manhattan.
MON 29
8:00 PM-11:00 PM TW 19 (1-4) NSA
A few days after getting out of prison the Grizzly gets his first welfare check and puts his ad in the personals looking for an 'animal lover picnic partner'. Later finds out Rhino lives at the same apartment complex Grizzly asks Rhino to keep out of his way because he's now going straight.
TUE 30
9:00 AM-11:00 PM TW 19 (5-13) (full moon)
The Grizzly finds he has no messages for his personal, a "summer" day with hot temperatures, the day after TW 19 (1-4). He then sees the Rhino everywhere he goes, later that night he has a few drinks at the V-Bar and after the Rhino steals his last little piece of toilet paper they start fighting and break the wall; outside Spider-Man beats them and leaves them tied up.
WED 31
8:00 PM-11:00 PM TW 19 (14-17) NSA
The night after TW 19 (5-13) Grizzly gets an answer for his personal ad but realizes he's out of touch for dating. Later the Rhino, who also just got a date, cheers him up telling him a thing he learned "lately" (in TW 5-6) don't try to be something you're not and just be yourself. Grizzly goes back and sets up a date for "tomorrow at 3:00" at the Zoo.
AUGUST
THU 1
3:00 PM-9:30 PM TW 19 (18-20p3) NSA
The Grizzly hides thinking his date is an approaching fat lady and a zoo guard fires him a dart putting him to sleep, thus missing his date. At night the Grizzly apologizes through the Internet and manages to get another date.
FRI 2
6:00 PM-6:30 PM TW 19 (20p4-22) NSA
Probably the day after TW 19 (18-20p3) the Grizzly finds out his 'cyber date' is actually the Rhino. The Grizzly decides to go back to crime.
7:00 PM-7:30 PM GK 1/2-FB (3-4) NSA
Al Kraven tries to stop the Punisher from killing a couple of guys but the Punisher knocks him out and proceeds to kill the guys.
9:00 PM-11:00 PM GK 1/2 (full moon)
After a "bad day" where he fought the Punisher, Al Kraven gets to the V-Bar to meet somebody "at nine", the bartender hopes it's not the Green Goblin again (as in TW 13). Spider-Man shows up and after fighting another villains (the Grizzly among them, back in crime after TW 19), he meets Timber Hughes (Kraven's girlfriend), Al reveals knowing Peter's identity. Later somebody assuring being the real Kraven and saying he'll prove it, states he got them both there, then leaves. Thinking that it was the Chameleon, Spidey and Alyosha head to the facility where he is being kept and find him there. Later at the zoo, as Spidey explains Alyosha why his wife left him, the fake Kraven shows up again and again escapes after a fight. Later they find it was the Chameleon disguised as Kraven. Al and Spidey leave as friends.
TUE 13
2:30 PM-5:30 PM SM:QOL 1
A Doctor Octopus tired of fighting Spider-man and decided to "finish once and for all this time" (maybe in allusion to their recent encounters in DL 2 and ALIAS 15) is eventually captured by Spidey. Later Peter is assigned to take pictures of protesters at the Monnano (a food chain company) building, There he spots the Lizard who wants to kill Arliss Clifton, the C.E.O. of the company, holding him responsible for a tumor his wife has obtained from their house's proximity to Monnano's lab in Florida. Yith shows up to kill the Lizard.
5:30 PM-10:00 PM SM:QOL 2
Yith, a serpent-like woman who's been hired to kill the Lizard, fails to do so inside the Monnano building, Spider-Man shows up and Lizard escapes. Later Peter looks for information against Monnano in the Bugle computers. At the hospital Billy Connors collapses apparently for the same reason his mother is sick.
WED 14
4:00 AM-6:00 AM SM:QOL 3
Early morning of the day after SM:QOL 2 Spider-Man breaks into Monnano's offices and learns a leak in their Florida labs has contaminated water supplies causing Martha Connors' cancer. Yith stops Spidey from taking the information. At his hotel room Curt Connors tells Spidey his son collapsed "last night" and that his wife will have surgery; upset he changes to Lizard and attacks Spider-Man; Yith shows up in the middle of their fight and begins to strangle the Lizard.
*Spider-Man theorizes the chemicals causing Martha's cancer might have triggered Curt's change to the Lizard (he regained his arm and was cured by Hammerhead using the lifeline formula in SM:L 3). Billy Connors is revealed to be 16 in this story.
6:00 AM-9:00 AM SM:QOL 4
Spider-Man stops Yith from killing the Lizard, who escapes and goes back to the hospital. Peter shows up at the hospital just before Curt learns his wife has died. Then Spider-Man stops lizard from killing Arliss Clifton, who is killed by Yith instead.
SAT 24
9:00 PM-10:00 PM SM:B 5
After getting new batteries Peter continues tape recording his memories of how he fell in love with Gwen Stacy, which, as he mentions, he is been doing "for so long".
*Narration only.
THU 29
4:00 PM-11:30 PM GK 1 (1-21) (full moon)
Ben Charles, a movie screen writer decides to buy back his script to a couple of producers after he finds they hired somebody else to re-write it, he promises the money by the end of the week.
Kraven feels empty with his life and goes out looking for answers, finds Spider-Man fighting Cobra and Mr. Hyde. After defeating them they talk at the zoo (Spidey says he hates that "you always wanna chitchat here", as they did first in GK 1/2) and Spidey gives the idea to Kraven to go to Hollywood.
*Timby gets her hair back to its original color (red) from the blond she was using.
FRI 30
5:00 PM-5:30 PM GK 1 (22-23) NSA
Al Kraven arrives at L.A.X Airport to try his luck in Hollywood.
SAT 31
5:00 PM-11:30 PM GK 2 (1-7) NSA
Probably the day after GK 1 (22-23), Al Kraven meets "Ned Tannengarden", the "boss" at National Studios, who seems glad to have Al work for him. Later, Ben Charles' girlfriend leaves him for buying back his script (there's a "GARAGE SALE THIS SATURDAY" sign outside of his house, so it may be Saturday night as the house is pretty much empty and his girlfriend seems to be taking the rest of her stuff).
SEPTEMBER
SUN 1
1:00 PM-11:30 PM GK 2 (8-20) NSA
Al Kraven talks to Namor in a Malibu beach and later rents Scott Baio's house. Ben Charles tries to hang himself but the ceiling falls down.
MON 2
8:30 PM-9:00 PM GK 2 (21-23) NSA
Chameleon escapes the facility where he's staying after killing two guards that brought him "dinner".
*Probably the day after GK 2 (8-20) since that segment presents a California summer night (it's already dark) and given the time zone difference they wouldn't be serving dinner past midnight in a prison in New York.
TUE 3
12:00 PM-8:00 PM GK 3 NSA
Probably the day after GK 2 (21-23) The Rothsteins Brothers decide to get rid of Al Kraven, Timby gets her first audition and decides not to be an actress to help Al with Hunter Productions, Ben Charles fails at committing suicide. Later the Chameleon disguised as Kraven attacks Alyosha but Timber knocks him out.
*The Time Zone difference from New York to L.A. is three hours.
2:00 PM-8:30 PM ASM2 43 (1p7-6)
Doc Ock is captured by a Mr. Carlyle (an Ock wannabe). Peter tries to reach Mary Jane to apologize to no avail.
*Dr. Octopus is shown with gray hair here for the first time, which probably means he had it dyed prior to this issue.
*The Time Zone difference from New York to L.A. is three hours.
THU 5
4:00 AM-11:30 PM GK 4 NSA
The Rothsteins brothers show up at the house where Al Kraven is staying at 2 in the morning and send villains to beat him out with not good results. Later in the day, the Vulture manages to be hired by Al. "Ned Tannengarden" mentions that "in the last two days" Al has had a fight with the Chameleon and "last night" with more costumed freaks (by "last night" he must be referring to early morning the same day before Kraven went to sleep). Ben Charles decides to jump from a rooftop inside National Studios to suicide after his agent drops him as a client.
FRI 6
1:00 PM-7:00 PM GK 5 (1-12) NSA
The morning after GK 4 Al Kraven decides to buy Ben Charles' script after he tried to suicide jumping from a tower at National Studios. Thinking about actors for the lead roles Al mentions he's met Jack Monroe (in GK 4) and Kate Shaw (in GK 2) in the "last few days". "Ned Tannengarden" tells the Rothsteins to get rid of Al Kraven within "one week".
SUN 8
5:00 PM-7:00 PM ASM2 43 (7-10)
Doc Ock awakens "five days" after his capture in ASM2 43 (1p7-6) as Carlyle outlines his plans. Peter and May decide to visit Mary Jane in California.
*The Time Zone difference from New York to L.A. is three hours.
MON 9
6:00 AM-6:00 PM ASM2 43 (11-22)
Peter and Aunt May fly to L.A. We see post-9/11 security at the airport. Carlyle robs a bank as Dock Ock escapes ("nearly 24 hours" after last seeing Carlyle), Peter and May meet up with MJ.
*The Time Zone difference from New York to L.A. is three hours.
6:00 PM-7:00 PM ASM2 44
The same day ASM2 43 (11-22) Peter, May, and Mary Jane talk and later Spider-Man gets wrapped up in the battle between Doc Ock and Carlyle, building collapses on Spidey.
*Dr. Octopus is seen here with a green and black costume different than the green and yellow one he had been using.
*The Time Zone difference from New York to L.A. is three hours.
7:00 PM-8:00 PM GK 5 (13-22)
Probably a few days after GK 5 (1-12) Al Kraven gets beat up by Stitch Williams and the Chameleon, the Rothsteins brothers abuse Timby and Nickel gets shot, when Al recovers he gives a number to the Vulture to call Spider-Man and leaves for revenge.
*This segment happens probably around the same time Spidey is fighting the two Octopuses in ASM2 45. 
7:00 PM-11:30 PM ASM2 45
Spider-Man frees himself out of the debris of collapsed Hotel, then battles Carlyle and defeats him, Dr. Octopus escapes. Later, as MJ asks Peter to wait for him, May brings up the knowledge of both Peter's and Otto Octavius' super identities and realizes Peter has been fighting the man she was going to marry.
TUE 10
12:00 AM-2:30 AM GK 6 (1-18)
Late the same night as GK 5 (13-22) (which, given the 3 hours Time Zone difference could be early morning of the next day in New York) Kraven cuts the Rothsteins brothers' tongues, and helped by the Vulture beats up Stitch Williams, Gerbil and Doctor Script, the Vulture cuts the Rothsteins brothers intimate parts. Then Spider-Man shows up and they fight a cyborg who reveals "Ned Tannengarden" is also the late Kraven's son and Al's brother, and is behind all the attacks to Al. Alyosha goes to see "Ned" who gets killed accidentally by a mad Chameleon for nobody believing he is the real Kraven. Spider-Man excuses himself for taking so long, he was busy with his "ex, a guy in a lobster suit and Doc Ock -- well, actually two of them" (in ASM2 44-45).
SAT 14
10:00 AM-10:30 AM GK 6 (19) NSA
Probably a few days after GK 6 (1-18) enough for the Rothsteins brothers to be out of the hospital and back in business now as the "Rothsteins sisters", Timby goes to see them to get one last revenge.
SUN 15
11:30 PM-12:00 AM ASM2 46 (1-2p4)
Peter goes to bed reflecting about "this week's" events in California.
MON 16
12:00 AM-3:30 AM ASM2 46 (2p5-8p3)
Doctor Strange visits Peter in his sleep to talk about their last encounter in ASM2 42 and to warn him of the consequences. Then wakes up in the middle of the night and reads about the Spider Wasp.
THU 19
10:30 PM-12:00 AM ASM2 46 (8p4-20p2)
Shathra appears from Astral Plane and attacks a bum. Later, "three days" after Peter's dream in ASM2 46 (2p5-8p3) Spider-Man meets and battles Shathra. Spidey gets away.
*The moon shown partially covered in this issue must be a Waxing Gibbous moon.
FRI 20
12:00 AM-9:00 AM ASM2 46 (20p3-22)
Spidey stays up waiting in costume "for hours" until is time to go to school. Shathra decides on a new kind of play and implements her change in strategy to harm Spider-Man by telling lies about him to a newspaper reporter.
*School is back in session after the break during which Peter was in California.
7:00 PM-11:30 PM ASM2 47
The same school day as ASM2 46 (20p3-22), presumably a Friday ("...see you Monday") during a month preceding a month in which school is held (a field trip is being planned for "next month"). Shathra's lies hit the media (Fantastic Four, MJ, Aunt May and JJJ hear the news) and Spidey battles her again. Then escapes and collapses inside a Museum.
*It's already 10:55 PM on the news coverage of Spidey's fight with Shathra
*There's a banner saying December is Arachna-Mania Month! at the Museum in which Spidey finds himself; this may be an announcement of an actual coming event at the museum or it may not actually be part of the scene, but rather an announcement of coming events in the next issue of ASM2, published in December.
SAT 21
8:30 AM-2:30 PM ASM2 48
Probably the day after ASM2 47, Ezekiel rescues Spider-Man from the museum (where kids are watching with their teacher, so it's probably morning), takes him to Ghana in a private jet; after telling him about Kwaku Anansi takes him to the ruins of the spider and leaves him to battle Shathra who's followed them all the way. Ezekiel sends spiders to attack and defeat Shathra. Then MJ, who's listening the news still talking about Shathra's lies (on a dark LA morning, probably because of the announced coming storm), calls for a cab to the airport, her departure is scheduled for 11:45 AM (2:45 PM in New York).
*The time difference between New York and Ghana is 5 hours, Ghana's time being ahead, so it's probably around 6 to 7 PM in Ghana at the time Spidey battles Shathra.
2:30 PM-11:30 PM ASM2 49 (1-8)
Right after his battle with Shathra in ASM2 48, Ezekiel tries to explain Peter about the mystic nature of his spider powers and warns him about a third danger coming, then Peter heads to the airport in Ghana as MJ's plane departs to New York.
At the airport Peter changes his flight to New York for one to LA "leaving in two hours". Later MJ gets to Peter's apartment in NY and meets Caryn (who is probably visiting a friend since she doesn't live at the same building than Peters but at the one across the street), as Peter flies to LA.
SUN 22
3:00 AM-9:00 PM ASM2 49 (9-17)
After flying all night from Ghana, Peter's flight gets to LA probably the "morning" after ASM2 49 (1-8), at MJ's apartment they refuse to confirm if she lives there. He calls her phone and finds MJ is out for a "few days" to see someone special. He calls his own apartment then and his phone hasn't been reconnected after being late with a payment. Peter then uses the rear window to get inside MJ's apartment. After probably waiting for hours until dark at each other's apartments, Peter and Mary Jane decide to go back to their respective homes.
MON 23
12:00 AM-3:00 AM ASM2 49 (18-22) (rain and thunders in Denver)
MJ's flight back to LA makes a stop in Denver and Peter's flight lands there too for precaution after a thunder grazes the plane. At the Denver airport Peter finds MJ and they decide to miss their flights so they can talk.
3:00 AM-6:00 AM ASM2 50
The same night as ASM2 49 (18-22). At the Denver airport, Spider-Man and Captain America protect Dr. Doom from a violent group of anti-Doom activists. Doom must appear here before T2 58. Peter and MJ talk things out and decide for MJ to come back to New York. At sunrise they walk in Colorado.
*After coming back together to NY Mary Jane probably goes back to LA a few days later to finish her movie assignments and stays there for a while since she is not seen in subsequent Spider-Man stories.
If that's a clock on the anti-Doom bomber it's 3:10 am.
SUN 29
8:30 PM-9:30 PM PPSM2 50 (2-9) (rain)
Spider-Man nabs bad guys on a rainy Sunday night, tagging them with a note that says: Happy Thanksgiving - Enjoy the turkeys. Then Spidey returns to his apartment to find Aunt May there, wanting to know more about Peter's life as Spidey. May notes that she's had a lot to think about these last few weeks. About you being Spider-Man, that is. This implies that it is a few weeks after PPSM2 45 when May saw the Goblins televised video of Gwen Stacys death which is when she started giving a lot more thought to Peters secret after not thinking to much about it the first few months. May also notes it's forty degrees.
*The reference to Thanksgiving must be purely humor about the bad guys being turkeys, not an actual reference to the time of year.
MON 30
8:30 AM-9:30 PM PPSM2 50 (10-13)
The next day after PPSM2 50 (2-9), Monday, Peter teaches school, then fights more bad guys as Spider-Man that night ruining Hammerhead's deals.
OCTOBER
TUE 1
4:30 PM-9:30 PM PPSM2 50 (14-21) (green grass, blowing leaves)
The next day after PPSM2 50 (10-13), Tuesday, Peter talks more with Aunt May in the park (May wears a coat). That night, Spidey busts more bad guys, Hammerhead among them, in the middle of an illicit vodka shipment.
WED 2
4:30 PM-6:00 PM PPSM2 50 (22-27) (green grass and trees)
The next day, Wednesday (Peter says he has school tomorrow and that he's out early on Friday for career day) Peter talks more with May as they check Peter's photo album. Later he busts more bad guys as Spider-Man.
*May's discussion with Peter about Doc Ock does not include any mention of the events of ASM2 43-45, but May bringing up the knowledge of both Peters and Doc Ocks identities for the first time in ASM2 45 puts that issue before this one.
FRI 4
4:30 PM-10:00 PM PPSM2 50 (28-35) (autumn colors, blowing leaves)
On Friday, Peter meets Aunt May at the park (both wearing coats) and reveals to her that Norman Osborn is the Green Goblin, she notes that if Peter still feels responsible for uncle Bens death, he wont come back to life as hard as Peter tries to fix things being Spider-Man. That night, Spidey fights the Rhino and the Uber-Machine to later find out that Hammerhead has set him up to clean up the guys that are giving trouble to Hammerheads organization.
SAT 5
1:30 AM-2:00 AM PPSM2 50 (36-38)
Peter has returned home after PPSM2 50 (28-36) and falls asleep watching TV, then heads back out at 1:34 in the morning to deal with a gelatinous blob reported on the news.
*These events are said to happen "last month" in SSM 3 (1-5).
FRI 11
9:30 AM-10:00 AM TW 20 (1-3) NSA
After Betty informs him it's "Bring your child to work" day at the Bugle, J. Jonah Jameson engages in a discussion with a girl sporting a Spidey T-shirt and hut, and suddenly suffers a heart attack.
2:00 PM-2:30 PM TW 20-FB (5p3-p7) NSA
At a hospital after recovering from his heart attack, the same day as TW 20 (1-3) and "two weeks" before TW 20 (4-22), Joe Robertson explains to J. Jonah Jameson that the Bugle's insurance company is forcing Jonah to see psychiatric help about his anger issues.
SUN 20
12:00 AM-3:00 AM PUN6 33
Daredevil enlists Spider-Man and Wolverine to help him capture the Punisher. Across town, the Punisher goes looking for mobster Mickey Cloonan and ends up slaughtering large numbers of the Irish mob in a warehouse shootout; a dying mobster tells him there is a big auction coming, where everyone will be present. The Punisher goes to Kevin's bar and asks Martin Soap about the auction. Soap has heard about it but doesn't know much more. The Punisher goes to the streets and beats up snitches until he gets information: the auction is at 3am that night. He goes home to pick up hardware, and on the way out bumps into Spacker Dave, who is now a superhero-spotter, and tailed the Punisher from the bar. The Punisher sends him away. Since he has time before the auction, the Punisher goes to interrogate another informant: Inskipp. However, Inskipp is allied with Daredevil. Daredevil, Spider-Man and Wolverine confront the Punisher, who baffles them by suggesting they go to a diner.
3:00 AM-5:30 AM PUN6 34
In a diner the Punisher provokes Wolverine into a berserker rage and then escapes in the confusion. Spacker Dave turns up and is ecstatic to have witnessed a team-up. Once Daredevil and Spider-Man calm Wolverine down, they start to plan again. The Punisher attends the auction and slaughters everyone present. He makes off with the prize: an unconscious man in the back of a truck. At first the Punisher cannot understand what the fuss was all about. But when he gets home and watches a video, which was to have been shown at the auction, he realizes that "all my troubles are over".
*The Punisher mentions it cost him "twenty minutes" to escape Daredevil, Spider-Man and Wolverine, and he misses the start of the auction.
3:30 PM-7:00 PM PUN6 35
In his hideout, the Punisher feeds stew to the baffled, 'amnesiac guy' he rescued from the auction. Soap is waiting for Lucky's bar to open when he is mugged by schoolgirls. Kevin arrives to open up and laughs at him. On a rooftop, Daredevil, Spider-Man and Wolverine discuss strategy again while reviewing the events of "last night" (which was actually early morning of the same day). In order to buy time before his plan is ready, the Punisher goes to Hell's Kitchen and tortures a criminal whose screams draw DD's attention; the three heroes duly respond. The Punisher blows Wolverine's torso to smithereens with a bazooka; Spider-Man is surrounded by motion-sensor bombs (which are actually duds, since the Punisher won't kill non-criminals), but Daredevil evades the traps and reaches the Punisher. They fight and DD gets the upper hand.
7:00 PM-10:00 PM PUN6 36 (1-13)
The Punisher defeats Daredevil and dislocates both his shoulders before leaving. He returns to his hideout and continues plying the 'amnesiac guy' with stew.
At Murdock's place Spider-Man gets DD's dislocated shoulders back in place while Wolverine heals his body.
Kevin finds Soap in the toilets of Lucky's bar about to shoot himself and stops him, but only to avoid the hassle - he sends Soap home to kill himself there. Soap finally snaps and threatens to kill Kevin. When Kevin begs for his life, Soap decides to do his job properly and actually arrest the Punisher.
FRI 25
2:30 PM-4:00 PM TW 20 (4-22) NSA
"Two weeks" after TW-FB (5p3-p7) J. Jonah Jameson sees a psychiatrist and reveals aspects of his relationships with his father, first wife and son, and his hatred of Spidey.
Later Jonah returns to the Bugle to find that it's "casual Friday" there. This time he manages not to loose his temper.
MON 28
3:00 PM-4:00 PM PUN6 36 (14-17) NSA
A "week" after PUN6 36 (1-13) the Punisher phones Matt Murdock's office, having read Daredevil's true identity in the papers "a while back" and challenges the three heroes to meet him at his warehouse hideout in Red Hook at "four o'clock". Spacker Dave is also hanging around the warehouse. Shortly before 4pm the Punisher beats up the 'amnesiac guy', none other than Bruce Banner, who starts remembering he is the Hulk, as he turns green.
4:00 PM PUN6 37-FB (8p4) NSA
The Hulk reads a note the Punisher left him in order to cure his amnesia, saying: "You are the Hulk. You like to smash". Thus the Hulk is led to transform specifically to his brute persona.
4:00 PM-4:30 PM PUN6 36 (18-22)
As Spider-Man, Daredevil and Wolverine arrive on time at the Red Hook warehouse, the Punisher escapes down a manhole, and the Hulk promptly attacks the three heroes who are the only other people in sight.
4:30 PM-5:30 PM PUN6 37 (1-17)
Spider-Man, Daredevil and Wolverine struggle to contain the Hulk. Hulk hurls away Wolverine, who lands in Boston. Spacker Dave continues to watch and is injured by the Hulk. The Punisher fights and defeats Daredevil, tying him up and revealing that "not too long ago" a group of L.A. criminals stumbled upon the Hulk reverting back to Bruce Banner, they knocked him out, drugged him and flew him to New York, planning to auction him to the highest bidder. The Punisher says he fed stew laced with explosives to Banner "for the past eight days". Eventually the Punisher detonates the explosives in the Hulk's stomach, knocking him out and reverting him to Bruce Banner. The explosion also knocks out Spider-Man. The Punisher berates Daredevil for wasting his time and leaves. Martin Soap, who has beaten Inskipp to know where the Punisher is, arrives in time to catch Castle leaving the scene and attempts to arrest him; as the Punisher ignores him, Soap shoots in the chest but the shot has no effect in the Punisher's bulletproof costume. A broken man, Soap collapses in tears and the Punisher wanders off.
As night falls, Wolverine is on a train that he thinks is taking him back to New York. Unfortunately, he's got the wrong train and is actually on his way to Philadelphia.
TUE 29
10:30 PM-11:00 PM TW 22 (1-4) (rain)
Police finds two thugs, responsible for beating a deli owner and robbing his store, captured by Spidey.
*It is early enough at night for Peter Parker to take the pictures of his fight with the two thugs to the Bugle to be used for the next day's edition (seen in TW 22 (5-22)).
WED 30
2:30 AM-6:00 AM TW 22 (5-22) NSA (rain)
Two policemen fail to get a confession from the two thugs captured by Spidey the night before, and they are released before somebody can see a picture in the Bugle of Spider-Man fighting with them.
NOVEMBER
MON 4
6:00 AM-10:30 PM PPSM2 51
Spider-Man catches Stilt-Man on "Monday morning" before school, Shocker and Hydro-Man are 'let go' by Hammer Industries. Later after seeing Flash at the hospital, Peter has dinner with aunt May.
As they ponder their life, Shocker proposes one last 'score' to retire while Hydro-Man wants revenge on Spidey.
*The Super Villain Tracking Service on the radio mentions Dr. Octopus "at large and active as recent as late summer" (SM:QOL 1 and ASM2 43-45), Green Goblin "is still considered dangerous", and "alerts are in place" for Electro, Vulture (he is still not fighting crime with Al Kraven, and is probably in LA by this time) , Lizard, Rhino and Scorpion.
SAT 9
10:30 AM-11:30 AM PPSM2 52
The "weekend" following PPSM2 51 Shocker has convinced Hydro-Man to get a 'score', but, after Spider-Man catches a couple of thieves, he fights and stops Shocker and Hydro-Man from steeling safe deposit boxes from a bank.
SUN 10
9:00 AM-10:00 AM PPSM2 53 (1-3) NSA
Fred Slade (a.k.a. the Boomerang) gets to L.A. from a 'short stay' in Australia, and clears customs getting ready to connect to a flight to New York, where he is gotten a job offer.
*The time difference between L.A. and New York is three hours, so it must be Sunday for the sunlight to appear in this segment (Peter starts class at 8:30 AM as seen in other issues, and he is just getting to school in PPSM2 53 (4-21), probably around 5 AM in California).
*Boomerang probably appears here after DD2 46 (16-21).
MON 11
8:00 AM-9:30 PM PPSM2 53 (4-21)
Peter stops two teenagers from fighting at school on a "Monday morning", Mr. Weathers sees Peter sporting bruises from his fight with the Shocker and Hydro-Man over the "weekend".
Four businessmen hire the Boomerang to confront Spider-Man and tape their fight to broadcast it to a selected market as Reality TV. After visiting Flash at the hospital, Spidey battles and defeats Boomerang, then discovers cameras recording their confrontation, unbeknownst to him, people are viewing the battle and betting on the outcome. 
*The reference to Thor in a television broadcast suggests that this story occurs during the time that Asgard floats over Manhattan.
*Principal Harrington, thus called when he first appeared in ASM2 32 (1-20), is called Mr. Weathers in this story for the first time, so (unless he has two last names) Harrington must be his first name.
*Boomerang gets back to using the blue and purple variation of his costume after being seen the last time with his green and orange costume (in SM:L 1-3).
TUE 12
9:00 AM-9:30 AM PPSM2 54
The day after his fight with the Boomerang, Mr. Weathers questions Peter again about the bruises on his face. Peter stops the same student from the day before from getting into a fight.
The four businessmen send Scorpion and XP-2000 (a robot) to fight Spider-Man. Spidey captures Scorpion and manages to get some confessions by the robot about their attack on him. The businessmen get ready to send another villain to fight Spidey and stop the robot from talking.
*It's "9:20 A.M." in Donal Hart's watch as he and the other 3 businessmen ponder the success of their 'game'.
WED 13
4:30 AM-9:30 AM PPSM2 55 (1-19)
After being attacked by the Scorpion "yesterday", "the second attack in as many days", Spider-Man takes XP-2000 to Reed Richards to help him track the signal sent by the robot, and finds out the cameras were broadcasting to private clubs over the city. Then Spidey, as Peter Parker, finds they are betting on his fights at those clubs.
Spider-Man lets the Rocket Racer, sent by the 4 businessmen, beat him up to spoil the bets placed on him. The Rocket Racer lets Spidey know where to find the businessmen and they are captured.
*Johnny Storm and Reed and Sue Richards guest star at some point after Johnny is put in an administrative position at FF Inc. in FF3 66 (20-21).
FRI 15
8:00 AM-4:30 PM PPSM2 55 (20-21)
"Friday" morning Mr. Weathers and the student who has been found fighting by Peter, see him come to school with his face full of bruises again, this time due to his fight with the Rocket Racer. Later the 4 businessmen are judged for wiretapping illegal broadcasts as Peter watches the news from his apartment.
SAT 16
10:30 PM-12:00 AM PPSM2 56 (1-16) (rain, waning crescent moon)
After being last seen as a sentient beach, the Sandman reappears, his consciousness splitting off into separate bodies at Jones Beach. Spider-Man confronts the "good" version of Sandman thinking he is a threat to a kid who is none other than Sandman's "inner child". Elsewhere policemen are attacked by an "evil" version of Sandman.
*Peter is seen sewing his Spider-Man costumes, probably after ripping a couple of them earlier on the week during his fights against Scorpion (PPSM2 54) and Rocket Racer (PPSM2 55).
*The events of PPSM2 42-43 are mentioned as happening "earlier this year".
SUN 17
12:00 AM-1:30 AM PPSM2 56 (17-21)
Shortly after PPSM2 56 (1-16) (probably past midnight at this point) Spider-Man and Sandman try to make sense of Baker's split versions when they hear about the "evil" Sandman's rampage at Jones Beach. They come back there only to find yet another Sandman version: his "feminine side".
1:30 AM-6:00 AM PPSM2 57
The same early morning as PPSM2 56 (17-21) Spider-Man and Sandman's "good", "child" and "feminine" versions track the "evil" version. When they find him, the "feminine", "evil" and "child" versions merge leaving out the "good" Sandman, realizing he is an ideal Baker will never live up to. The "good" version disintegrates and Sandman leaves.
Later, Peter visits the hospital and tells the comatose Flash about his adventure with Sandman who is seen at large in the streets at sunrise.
DECEMBER
TUE 10
6:00 PM-11:00 PM TB (1-12) (snow and rain) NSA
A former super villain, Daniel Axum (the Battler), out of prison in parole, comes back home from work on 'Tuesday' to be reminded by his mother of the time he was sent to prison by Spidey more than 'three years' ago. Elsewhere later that night Rey Trueno, a fight promoter, gets the take from a fight just won by Armadillo.
*The old Daily Bugle edition reporting Spider-Man's capture of the Battler is dated on 'June' (this event is said to happen 'almost four years' ago in TB 81.
*Daniel Axum and Rey Trueno appear here for the first time.
WED 11
1:00 PM-10:00 PM TB 76 (13-18) NSA
Axum is asked to do some work in the middle of his lunch on 'Wednesday'. Later that night Armadillo gets prepared to fight the Monster.
*Armadillo mentions this is his 'second fight this week, fourth this month'.
THU 12
8:00 AM-5:00 PM TB 76 (19-23) NSA
School kids try to steal money from unconscious Monster on 'Thursday' morning.
Later, after work Axum gets picked on to fight in a bar by Coach Cady.
*Axum mentions he'll get paid 'tomorrow'.
5:00 PM-9:00 PM TB 77 (1-11) (snow and rain) NSA
The same evening as TB 76 (19-23), Axum has been set up by Rey Trueno to fight Coach Cady and test his fighting abilities, then is offered money to fight super powered guys for a public that bets on the outcomes. He refuses and goes home where his mother sees him full of scratches.
*It is revealed in this issue that it's been 'two years' since Daniel Broughton changed his last name to Daniel Axum.
FRI 13
11:00 AM-10:30 PM TB 77 (12-23) NSA
Axum gets a visit from his parole officer at work. Then after cashing his check he contacts Rey Trueno. That night at ten a fight has been arranged for Axum and Armadillo. When the fight starts Armadillo gets first blood.
*The events of TB 76 (13-18) are referenced as happening 'last week' by Armadillo but that must be just a manner of speaking since later events prove it is still 'Friday' of the same week.
10:30 PM-12:00 AM TB 78 (1-11) NSA
After taking a beating Axum recovers to defeat Armadillo and become Ultimate Fighting Regional Champ. He gets paid ten thousand dollars. Armadillo is left probably with some brain damage.
SAT 14
12:30 AM-11:00 AM TB 78 (12-14) (snow) NSA 
Probably past midnight at this point, after his fight with Armadillo, Axum stops by the Limbo bar to pay his tab then goes to see his ex-wife and hands her money for child support so he can get to see his son.
By morning he is at the park playing in the snow with his son.
*Axum mentions he has unsupervised visits 'every other weekend' as long as he pays child support.
SUN 15
8:00 PM-8:30 PM TB 78 (15) NSA
Axum gets a shower and his mother, who has been trying to talk to him 'all weekend', is mad at him for suddenly having lots of money and coming home with bruises on his face.
Axum mentions this was his 'weekend' with Benny.
MON 16
9:00 AM-5:30 PM TB 78 (16-19) NSA
At his day job Axum gets an apology from his boss for being indiscreet on 'Friday' when Daniel's parole officer showed up, then advises Axum to take responsibility for his actions.
Later Axum sees Trueno who insists Ultimate Fighting to be legal.
*Axum's fight with Armadillo is stated to have happened on 'Friday night'.
*Probably after talking to Axum, Trueno and his assistant schedule fights for him, as referenced in pages 20-21 (text only).
WED 18
10:30 PM TB 78 (20p1) NSA
Axum beats a fighter within the three weeks following his fight with Armadillo.
TUE 24 Christmas Eve
6:00 PM TB 78 (20p2) NSA
Axum brings wrapped gifts to his mother, probably for Christmas.
FRI 27
10:30 PM TB 78 (20p3) NSA
Axum beats another fighter within the three weeks following his fight with Armadillo.
SAT 28
11:00 AM TB 78 (20p4) NSA
Axum opens presents with his son and ex-wife, probably for Christmas and on one of the 'every other weekends' he gets to see his child.
SUN 29
2:00 AM TB 78 (21p1) NSA
Axum drinks with Trueno at the Limbo bar.
TUE 31
10:30 PM TB 78 (21p2) NSA
Axum defeats one more fighter within the three weeks following his fight with Armadillo.
JANUARY
WED 1
2:30 AM TB 78 (21p3) NSA
Axum drinks alcohol and gambles, probably in New Year's celebration.
MON 6
10:30 PM-11:30 PM TB 78 (21p4-23) NSA
Right after Axum beats yet another fighter, Trueno and Coach Cady rejoice about their fighter's prowess with 'only three weeks in'. Axum chats with Lydia.
WED 15
12:30 AM-9:30 PM TB 79 (1-14) NSA
Rey Trueno is interviewed in Radio about barely legal Fighting League. Axum trains and goes home to see his kid, whom he has on 'Wednesday' nights. Later Axum is asked by Trueno to quit his day job as a show of commitment previous to his World Championship fight on 'Friday'.
FRI 17
10:00 PM-12:00 AM TB 79 (15-22) NSA
Axum beats Slug to claim the Ultimate Fighting Championship of the World. After the fight Armadillo, out in the streets as a bum, congratulates Axum, making him see what could be his own future.
TUE 21
7:00 PM-7:30 PM TB 80 (1-6) (full Moon)
Spider-Man fights Man-Killer and sends her to prison.
*Spidey mentions it's been a long time since she was seen in New York.
WED 22
4:30 PM-8:30 PM TB 80 (7-22) NSA
Man-Killer is bailed out of jail by Trueno and is proposed to fight in Ultimate Fighting league. Axum starts thinking about a way out of fighting but Lydia reveals Trueno's plans of making his Fighting league a real sport to be shown in TV, then they have a little discussion.
At night Man-Killer gets a drink with Axum and proposes him to join her along with Scorpion and Delilah to get revenge on Spidey.
*Axum is asked by his ex to take care of their son 'this 'weekend'.
8:30 PM-9:30 PM TB 81 (1-10) NSA
The same night as TB 80 (7-22), Man-Killer, Delilah and Scorpion try to convince Axum to join them against Spidey. He promises to think about it and on his way home remembers the time when he was capture by Spidey 'almost four years ago'.
*A picture of a scene from SSM2 1 is seen in Axum's thoughts of Spidey. Axum states not having thought about Spider-Man in 'months'.
*The day's edition of the Daily Bugle shows Spidey during his fight with Man-Killer.
THU 23
11:00 AM-3:00 PM TB 81 (11-21) NSA
Lydia apologizes to Axum for discussion 'yesterday'. Axum agrees with Man-Killer to join Delilah and Scorpion and attack Spidey on 'Saturday", but later they both change their minds as Man-Killer learns Trueno's lawyer has gotten her free of charges and, Axum is advised by Trueno and later Armadillo to forget about his past and stop holding grudges.
SAT 25
4:30 PM-5:00 PM TB 81 (22) 
Axum spends 'Saturday night' with his mother and son, Man-Killer and Trueno celebrate the dismissal of the charges against her, Scorpion and Delilah are captured by Spidey.
MARCH
THU 13 
11:00 PM-11:30 PM GK 6 (20-24)
Six months after GK 6 (19) Al Kraven and the Vulture do some super-hero-ing by helping an old couple from being assaulted. Spider-Man talks to Tymby who tells him they've been at it for "three months".

			*	*	*

Re: Spider-Man calendar
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 09, 2004 at 20:48:44:
In Reply to: Spider-Man calendar 
posted by Antonio Gavio on February 09, 2004 at 16:30:56:

> FWIW, here is what a have so far on the Spidey calendar; now, I just know you are going to make a mess out of it but I'll be happy to prove you wrong as in countless earlier occasions (he, he, he...). 

That's me...the mess-maker. Guess that makes you Bounty, the quicker picker-upper.

Thanks for posting this impressive document. I plan to methodically compare this to the overall calendar I have and spot differences, inconsistencies, omissions, etc. It'll probably take me a week or two.

Hopefully, if there aren't major disagreements here, the entire recent MU calendar won't be far behind.

--Paul B. 

			*	*	*

Re: Spider-Man calendar
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 09, 2004 at 21:09:25:
In Reply to: Re: Spider-Man calendar 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 09, 2004 at 20:48:44:

You'll notice that throughout the document I have made minor changes and corrections in relation to earlier drafts. At first I was keeping a list that I thought I'd give to you with all the changes but then I just lost track because there were so many. Have fun.

Antonio 

			*	*	*

Re: Spider-Man calendar
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 09, 2004 at 22:04:00:
In Reply to: Re: Spider-Man calendar 
posted by Antonio Gavio on February 09, 2004 at 21:09:25:

Already having fun, and I already have a question. When do you place ASM '01, the issue in which MJ leaves Peter? My calendar has MJ's departure on Nov. 14. This is just TWO DAYS before your placement of TW 1, in which Peter takes a model named Skye to a fashion awards party. That's awfully darn quick. I'd expect Peter to take quite a while before dating.

Of course, this has a domino effect on a lot of other stuff, as TW 1-3 must occur before PPSM2 30 and the apartment that replaced the one in TW 1-3.

--Paul

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Re: Spider-Man calendar
Posted by Kevin on February 09, 2004 at 22:57:58:
In Reply to: Re: Spider-Man calendar 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 09, 2004 at 22:04:00:

Ah, but never deny the power of the spurned lover. Remember, it was Mary Jane who wanted to put a stop to their relationship at the time, (cause she no longer enjoyed his being Spiday)...thus, Peter, not being able to handle this rejection, immediately turns around an asks several women out, to show, "I don't need her! Lot's of women want me!"


This looks lenghty, Antonio...I'll scan over it as well, and see if I have anything to add...

;-) 

			*	*	*

Re: Spider-Man calendar
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 10, 2004 at 00:15:14:
In Reply to: Re: Spider-Man calendar 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 09, 2004 at 22:04:00:

> Of course, this has a domino effect on a lot of other stuff, as TW 1-3 must occur before PPSM2 30 and the apartment that replaced the one in TW 1-3.

I have ASM '01 happening on the 11th and 12th of November, and though it's still just four days before TW 1, I see Peter going out with Skye as a way of taking MJ out of his mind momentarily, and not like he actually wanted something serious with Skye. I don't see any problems there.

Antonio 

			*	*	*

Re: Spider-Man calendar
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 10, 2004 at 08:53:42:
In Reply to: Re: Spider-Man calendar 
posted by Antonio Gavio on February 10, 2004 at 00:15:14:

My placement of ASM '01 is based on the "last week" reference to PPSM2 29. Starting ASM '01 on a Tuesday instead of a Sunday works a little better in regard to that reference.

Be that as it may, distracting himself with the company of another woman, no matter how serious the intent, just doesn't seem to fit Peter's personality, IMHO.

But then there's the issue of the apartments. In ASM '01, Peter moves out of the apartment he shared with Randy; he and MJ move in with Aunt May (November 11 on your calendar). Early the next morning, MJ leaves Peter. Are we to believe that, by November 16, Peter moves and settles into a new apartment -- an apartment he would have inhabited until it gets trashed the very next day (Nov. 17) -- then he moves back in with Aunt May while his place was presumably being fixed (TW 3), only to find yet another apartment by the time of PPSM2 30 (November 25)? I'm finding the moving into two new apartments in NYC (which is not the easiest place to find a pad) in as many weeks a stretch. The more I think about it, the more TW 1-3 just doesn't seem to fit into the flow of Spidey's chronology, at least not unless quite a bit more time is allowed between ASM '01 and PPSM2 30.

--Paul B.

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Re: Spider-Man calendar
Posted by Antonio Gavio on February 13, 2004 at 13:40:26:
In Reply to: Re: Spider-Man calendar 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 10, 2004 at 08:53:42:

Peter doesn't move back to Aunt May's for a second time in TW 3, he just stays there until his place gets fixed up; also, he doesn't have to find a new apartment in New York, they probably relocate him to a new apartment within the same apartment complex. Peter mentions Randy being a good guy about him moving in such a short notice (in PPSM2 30), Aunt May tells Peter she knows he is going through a lot right now, with MJ leaving and the move (in ASM2 30); both these facts tell us it hasn't been too long since MJ's departure. Then you have that waning crescent moon in TW3 which places that issue about 12 to 14 days after the full moon in ASM 29.
That's my reasoning behind the placement of these issues.
You can go ahead and move ASM '01 a couple of days to make better sense of the "last week" reference. No problems there.
About Peter going out with Skye just a few days after MJ leaving, let's remember they separate in good terms, promising to give each other some time, I don't see any reason for him not to go to a party with Skye (a girl he doesn't see or makes any effort to see any time after that) a few days later just to take MJ out of his mind.

Antonio 

			*	*	*

Re: Spider-Man calendar
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 13, 2004 at 20:26:49:
In Reply to: Re: Spider-Man calendar 
posted by Antonio Gavio on February 13, 2004 at 13:40:26:

Okay, I will concede on several issues. I re-read TW 1-2 and the "date" with Skye doesn't appear to be romantically oriented either in intent or result. It's clear that Peter knows Skye by this point(although this is the first time she appears in a comic), and I'm willing to bet that they developed a quasi-friendship through M.J. Skye may have offered to introduce Peter to some of her friends as a way of getting him out of the doldrums following M.J.'s departure. Aunt May is probably pleased about Peter going out with that "nice girl" Skye just for the sake of Peter's spirits, not because she feels that any romance is possible. Then, as we see in TW 2, Peter's platonic relationship with Skye falls apart when he disses her friends. So yes, I'm willing not to let the Skye issue place a lot of time between ASM '01 and TW 1-3.

You also offer a good explanation for Peter's quick second apartment, which we see for the first time in PPSM2 30 -- the new place is in the same building. Perhaps Peter reported himself as the victim of a break-in after the attack in TW 3 (which also resulted in the super's death) and the landlord took pity on him and offered him the new place. Then the old place was fixed up and offered to someone else. Peter would have been able to move his stuff from one apartment to the other without having to find a place to stash it temporarily. Plus, the apartments may have come partially furnished to begin with. Together, these circumstances could place Peter in the second apartment in PPSM2 30 within several days after TW 3. (Too bad we have those references to hot weather...)

However, I do still think we need to place a bit of time between ASM '01 and TW 1 to allow Peter to find the first apartment and move stuff that he would have *just* moved to Aunt May's house in ASM '01. Remember he hadn't even started looking for a place by the end of ASM '01; the assumption was that he and M.J. would live with Aunt May for a little while.

I'll see what I can figure out and proceed further down the Spidey chronology. It may take a little while, though. Right now I'm dealing with some problems with this week's comics and I want to get the recent Hulk issues incorporated into the calendar.

--Paul B.

			*	*	*

Another X Correction
Posted by captamr on February 11, 2004 at 11:29:50:

TIMESHADOW also appears in Apacolyse's band of mutants in X-Factor #6:

TIMESHADOW
XF 5
**XF 6
XF 33


Charlie 

			*	*	*

Chronology Review for Hulk #60-65!
Posted by Kevin on February 11, 2004 at 21:27:08:

Chronology Review for Incredible Hulk #60 to #65.

Initial comments: This story arc starts to explain some mysteries that have been lingering since Bruce Jones took over the title with Issue #34. A quick review of the cast might be needed:

Bruce Banner: On the run from "the Secret Conspiracy" and publicly wanted for the murder of young Ricky Myers.

Doc Samson: Trying to aid Banner's flight from the bad guys, he's been revealed to be the father of Ricky Myers.

Sandra Verdugo: At first, she was an assassin who was supposed to hunt Bruce Banner down. But she then revealed herself to be Ricky's mother and a lover of Doc Samson's from the distant past. She's been put through the Secret Conspiracy's "Zombie" program, which allows her to rejunerate from bullets and blows that would've killed a normal human.

"Mr. Blue": A female operative, (originally codenamed S-3) and a double agent, who worked for the Secret Conspiracy, but was secretly working for another mystery group, which wanted to aid Banner. At the end of the Abomination Storyarc, (Hulk #50-54) she had escaped execution for her betrayel at the hands of other S.C. agents, but had been wounded by the Abomination when he broke out of prison.

Nadia Blonsky: Wife of Emil Blonsky, the Abomination. When last we saw her, Banner was leaving her alone in her Southwestern desert home near Area 51, (where the Abomination was kept). 

"Mr. Lips": This is the name I've given for the mystery figure, (yet to be revealed) who runs the "Secret Conspiracy" (which is another name I came up with, to describe this shadowy organization). All's we ever see of him is his lips on a monitor screen, as he talks to his operatives...

Ricky Myers: The young boy who was the initial plot point for this whole storyline. He wasn't murdered as was leaked to the press, instead, he's been kidnapped and held captive by the S.C....

Other initial comments: The last story arc featuring the Absorbing Man happened while Banner was in the New York/New Jersey area. Before that, he was in the American Southwest. It's now generally regarded that Bruce Jones wrote the Absorbing Man storyline to coincide with the Hulk movie of last year. But as it stands, it seems to have functioned as a distraction from the prior storyline, because Hulk #60 picks up right where Hulk #54 left off! The only thing that seems to indicate that Hulk #55-59 happened at all is the fact that Banner starts off Hulk #60 in New York! So once again, very little time has passed between story arcs, and in fact, the ending of Hulk #54 may have happened mere days ago. But enough time had to have passed for Banner to get to New York and get wrapped up in the Absorbing Man plot...

Hulk 60-65: Entire storyarc covers roughly 24 hours, or thereabouts...

Incredible Hulk #60
"Split Decisions pt. 1"
Written by Bruce Jones
Drawn by Mike Deodato Jr.

Appearances: Bruce Banner, Doc Samson, Sandra Verdugo, "Mr. Blue", a kid named Kevin, (last seen in Hulk #36 or #37, if I recall right) and numerous "Men in Black" style agents...

Synopsis: ALL EVENTS HAPPEN ON SAME DAY, OVER THE COURSE OF A FEW SHORT HOURS, PROBABLY IN THE MORNING HOURS, AFTER DAWN.

Several plots are happening at once in this issue, all at the same time:

Samson is returning to the old run down lab he used back in Hulk #34, which is in a small town somewhere in the midwest or southwest. I originally thought it was in western Nebraska or Western Kansas, (going by the events of Hulk #34-39) but it never really says...could be Colorado, (where Banner was in Hulk #40-43). Samson seems to have many of these type of "hidden lair's" all over the region. He sneaks around between them, while trying to keep track of Banner's flight from the bad guys.

Anyway, Samson returns to this particular lair, only to be assaulted by S.C. agents...he quickly dispatches them, with help from Sandra Verdugo, (who's apparently contacted him and asked to meet him there), and also with the help of a young kid named Kevin, (who discovered Samson's base while snooping around back in #36 or 37). Samson sends Kevin on his way, telling him it's become to dangerous to use this place as a playhouse now, and he's never to come back. He and Sandra then have their conference together. As their now on the same side with Banner, they agree to help one another, (though Samson's still bitter she left him after having their love affair, which is noted to have happened 10 years ago, while Samson was on some sort of trip to Argentina...). Sandra explains to him that she's the mother of Ricky Myers, and yes, Doc Samson is the father, (this is the first he's heard about it). She then says that Ricky's still alive and being held captive by the Secret Conspiracy.

Sandra presents the laptop computer which she had used in prior storylines to track Banner, and tells Samson it's broken. He examines it, and says it's not broken...the Secret Conspiracy has simply finally found a way to block the signal, and basically shut the labtop's down...

Meanwhile, Bruce Banner is trying to remain hidden among the crowds of New York. We see him trying to send a message to his helper, "Mr. Blue" on his own laptop computer, but he keeps getting a message that says "Malfunction"...he hasn't heard from Mr. Blue in days...he leaves the restaurant where he's at and realizes he's being followed. He gets the person to follow him into an alley, where Banner ambushes him, disarming the man. But he quickly realizes this man isn't one of the Secret Conspiracy members...the man says he's here to aid Bruce.

At the same time, Nadia's just beginning to recover from the events of Hulk #50 - 54 in her little desert home. She's shown waking up in bed, when she hears a commotion coming from out on the front porch. She steps out to find a bunch of coyote's standing over and sniffing the bruised and bloodied form of "Mr. Blue". Having managed to escape from the ruins of the Area 51 base, "Mr. Blue" has made it across the desert and over to Nadia's house, only to collapse on her front porch. Nadia drags the unconsious woman inside, and upon going through her things, she finds a labtop computer, similar to what Banner had on hand while he stayed at her house. She tries to send Banner a message on it, but it only reads, "Malfunction" in response...then Mr. Blue wakes up, and as they both don't trust one another, they wrestle over a handgun that Nadia keeps on hand for protection, till they come to a stand still...Nadia then demands who this stranger before her is...

References: Sandra tells Samson that her and Banner have been trying to find Ricky "for months"...

Samson is wearing the eyepatch over his right eye, which he's been wearing since Hulk #44...the Secret Conspiracy implanted an eye camera in his head, and this keeps the enemy from seeing through his eye. 

Hard to say what the weather is...in the town where Samson and Sandra are, the sky looks gloomy, (it's possible the sun is just coming up). In New York, the sky appears to be partly cloudy, but it doesn't appear cold. Still, as the last story arc occured around Feb. 17, maybe this is just a somewhat warmer Feb. day? Set a few days later?

Hulk #61
"Split Decisions pt. 2: From Shadowed Places"
Written by Bruce Jones
Drawn by Mike Deodato

Appearances: Bruce Banner, Doc Samson, Sandra Verdugo, "Mr. Blue", Nadia Blonsky, "Mr. Lips", S-4, S-5

Synopsis: PICKS UP WHERE WE LEFT OFF LAST ISSUE. HAPPENS OVER A FEW HOURS, HEADING INTO AFTER DARK...

Mr. Lips holds a conference with Supervisor's 4 and 5, (S-4 and S-5, the next two operatives in the line of succession in running the Secret Conspiracy...S-1 and S-2 are dead, and S-3 was Mr. Blue...). Mr. Lips chastises them for bungling the Abomination plot, and has S-4 killed, (he has S-4 drink acid...). He then tells S-5 that he's in charge, and they are to initiate Operation: Krill. 

Krill, we learn, are genetically bred creature that looks like a cross between a rat, a gremlin, and a small veliciraptor, (from Jurassic Park). They're pack creatures, designed to extract blood from the Hulk with they're cybernetically enhanced sharp teeth, (the Hulk's blood is what the Secret Conspiracy wants)...

Meanwhile, Banner and the man who was following him talk, sneaking away into a sauna room of a Men's club. Here, they talk in private. The guy tries to convince Banner that he's here to help him. He says it's important for him to go meet with Mr. Blue face to face. He reveals that Mr. Blue is now staying with Nadia Blonsky, and tells Banner they have a flight waiting for him at JFK to go meet her in New Mexico...Banner leaves to go get on the flight. The agent who helped him is killed in turn by agents of the Secret Conspiracy, who turn the Sauna Room into a Boiler Room...this series loves gory deaths it seems...

Banner gets on the plane and arrives in "Reading AZ airport"...another "good" operative meets up with Banner, and gets Banner to the rental car section, telling Banner to head to Nadia's...

Meanwhile, Doc Samson takes a blood sample from Sandra, and puts it into his handy dandy tracking machine...and comes up with a genetic match for young Ricky Myers. They conclude that the spot on the map is the location of Home Base and hop in a car and drive off down the interstate. They don't get far when all of a sudden a message comes over Sandra's supposedly malfunctioning laptop computer. It says "Nadia's: Urgent!" And they fear Banner's walking into a trap, so they head off down the highway towards Nadia's...they don't get far when a Black Ops helicopter appears in the sky, and blows them off the road!

Meanwhile, Nadia and "Mr. Blue" talk, neither of them trusting one another...Mr. Blue asks what Nadia's relationship to Banner is, seemingly very interested in whether or not Nadia and Bruce slept together, (which they did)...Nadia wants to know Mr. Blue's true identity, but she won't tell. But then, while "Mr. Blue" showers, Nadia looks through Mr. Blue's clothing, coming across a holographic projector...she plays it, and sees the footage we've seen in previous story arcs from Hulk #47-54. It's the footage of Mr. Blue having plastic surgery so no one reckognizes her face, so she can infiltrate the Secret Conspiracy...

Mr. Blue puts some clothes on and they start stocking up on ammo, as Mr. Blue warns Nadia that it won't be long before the S.C. comes after them...they head out to the storage shed outside, and they have an argument again, but now they are interrupted: strange things are crawling through the tall grass around them. Looking over to the house, they see through the window the lights are now out, and strange eyes glaring at them from within the house. The Krill have arrived...

References: 

pg. 5: The operative helping Banner tells him that's he "hiding you until 6:09 pm, at which time a cab will be waiting to whish you off to JFK. There to board a non-stop flight to New Mexico for some overdue face time with a friend of yours." The friend being Mr. Blue. Just making note of the time of day when Banner leaves to the airport: 6:09 pm

pg. 11: Samson, upon concocting the tracking device to find Ricky, says he's located him on a map. "Here! Carlsbad! Close! That's only a few hundred miles from here..."

Then when they choose to go to Nadia's to save Banner, they turn off an intersection...they turn down the sign reading "New Mexico State Line 56 miles" when they originally were going to go straight on a HWY, which the sign for it read, "Carlsbad: 250 miles"

So the Secret Conspiracy's Home Base is outside of some small town called Carlsbad, which is in the American Southwest...

When Mr. Lips holds his conference, he shows S-5 a video tape of the Krill in testing stages. This video tape shows a homeless man captured off the streets, being locked in a room while the Krill are released into the room. They tear the man apart. As this is stock footage of the Krill, I suppose it constitutes a flashback, (though not an important one). The footage is on pg. 4, panels 3 through 7.

Because this storyline runs until Dawn the next morning, (much like the last storyarc...) I'll go ahead and provide my best guess for when it's clearly after midnight, and into the next day. It's probably in this issue, between pages 16 and 17. After that, it's clearly after dark, and Doc Samson and Sondra have spent some time driving down the road, and Banner has arrived at the Arizona airport, and is on his way down the road in the rental car...

Hulk #62
"Split Decisions pt. 3: Night Eyes"
written by Bruce Jones
drawn by Mike Deadato Jr.

Appearances: Bruce Banner, Doc Samson, Sandra Verdugo, "Mr. Blue", Nadia Blonsky, "Mr. Lips"...

Synopsis: PICKS UP EXACTLY WHERE WE LEFT OFF LAST ISSUE. HAPPENS OVER THE COURSE OF AN HOUR OR SO...

Doc Samson survives the attack by the Black Ops copter on their car. But he sees Sandra killed by the rain of bullets from the copter. The car crashs. The copter lands and two S.C. operatives step out. The walk over, preparing to execute Samson with a special bullet designed just for him. He and Sandra, (who lurchs back to life, like she always does: she's a regenerating zombie and all), they turn around and get the drop on the S.C. operatives, and Sandra shoots them dead. Then her and Doc Samson take the helicopter and fly onwards to Nadia's...

Meanwhile, Banner is driving down the road when he pulls over after running over something with a thump. He steps out of the car and searches around with a flashlight. When he turns back around to the car, it's swarming with Krill. He apparently ran over a Krill...they're swarming in the area.

Meanwhile, Nadia and Mr. Blue run back inside the house, fearful of being over run by the numerous Krill outside. Unfortunately, many Krill have already broken inside. They flee upstairs, trying to get to higher ground. As the Krill burst into the bedroom upstairs, they flee into the attic. The whole time they're blasting away at the Krill with the shotgun and pistol they've rounded up from the storage shed outside. Mr. Lips and a bunch of scientists who created the Krill are watching all of this unfold on "eye cameras" which have been installed in the Krill's eye lens. Just then, the Krill burst into the attic, and all appears lost, as they're nearly out of bullets, but just then, the Hulk bursts in! He flings a bunch of Krill away, saving Nadia and Mr. Blue for the moment. He then picks up Mr. Blue, suspicious of her, this being the first time he's met "Mr. Blue" face to face. 

She then calls out to Bruce, (trying to reach him inside the Hulk's savage mind) telling him he's got to flee here, that it's not safe with the Krill everywhere. To help convince Bruce that she's on his side, she says, "It's me Bruce! Don't you recognize me? Look into my eyes! It's me!"

The Hulk pauses, studying her face, before muttering, "Betty?!?!"

That's right. "Mr. Blue", the double agent who's been helping Bruce Banner flee from the Secret Conspiracy these last few months, is actually Betty Ross, wife of Bruce Banner.

References: 

I'll make note that the last time we saw Betty Ross, General Ross, her father, had her locked up in a statis chamber. She was dead, (killed at the hands of a blood transfusion from the Abomination, way back in Hulk #466, (or thereabouts). But the chamber kept her body from rotting, (Gen. Ross couldn't stand burying his daughter apparently...) The last time we saw Betty in her glass chamber, it was in Hulk #24-25, when Gen. Ross revealed to Bruce what he'd done to her, to get Bruce mad at the Abomination, to go and hunt Emil Blonsky down...

There's a full moon seen in the sky throughout this issue...

Hulk #63
"Split Decisions pt. 4 of 6: Blue Moon"
Written by Bruce Jones
Drawn by Mike Deadato

Appearences: Bruce Banner, (he's the Hulk entirely in this issue), Doc Samson, Sandra Verdugo, Betty Ross aka "Mr. Blue", Nadia Blonsky, Mr. Lips, S-5

Synopsis: CONTINUES FROM WHERE WE LEFT OFF LAST ISSUE. HAPPENS OVER THE COURSE OF PROBABLY LESS THAN AN HOUR.

Now all of the key players start to come together. In the ruins of Nadia's attic, Hulk and Betty get reaquantied with one another, which mostly involves Betty trying to convince the Hulk it's really her. Meanwhile, Mr. Lips and S-5, along with the scientists who created the Krill, are watching all this through the eye cameras of the Krill. Hulk says, "I can't believe General Ross would allow them to take away your face." Betty replies, "It...it wasn't my father that did it, Bruce." She later on tells Nadia that Gen. Ross still thinks she's locked up in that statis chamber...when in reality, whoever woke her up left a life like dummy behind in her place, or something like that...(she doesn't divulge the group she's working for in this story arc, the group that did the plastic surgery on her face, but it's the group that opposes the Secret Conspiracy...)

Before Betty can reveal more, the Krill renew their attack, sending the Hulk into a rampage. He flings Nadia and Betty into a nearby water tower, (water apparently short circuits the Krill) and the Krill and the Hulk start tearing into each other. The chopper carrying Sandra and Doc Samson arrives, and Hulk thinks it's one of the S.C. black ops choppers, (which it is, but it's under Samson's control now), so Hulk knocks it out of the sky. It crashes to the ground, but doesn't explode. Samson and Sandra emerge from the wreckage, and Sandra strips down to her underwear and runs out and stands in front of the Hulk, trying to get Hulk to calm down using that meditation technique on Bruce to calm him down, (the one with the imagery of the scantly clad woman on the beach, as has been seen in prior issues...Sandra's used it before).

Unfortunately, the Krill renew their attack and the meditation technique fails...one of the Krill manages to sink his teeth in enough to suck out some Hulk blood, (which is what they were designed to do) and runs off. Hulk charges after it, chasing it off into the night...

Samson and Sandra meet up with Nadia and Betty, and they all introduce themselves to one another. Doc Samson is stunned to find Betty is still alive, saying, "It DOES sound like you!"

Mr. Lips meanwhile is rejoicing the fact that the Krill managed to get a sample of the Hulk's blood...till one of the scientists inform him that the Hulk is right behind the creature, and chasing it all the way back to their Home Base!

References: 

Full Moon again seen in the sky during this issue...

In one scene, Mr. Lips and S-5 are discussing the possibility that Mr. Blue really is Betty Ross...Mr. Lips plays some footage obtained from security cameras at some military base. The footage shows two things, (as Mr. Lips explains the history of Betty's 'Death'): 

pg. 6, panels 3-5: Shows the Abomination sneaking in and poisoning the sick and dying Betty's blood transfusion with his own Gamma irradiated blood, (as has been revealed back in Hulk 474 I believe).

Pg. 6, panels 6-7: Show Gen. Ross walking out of the room where keeps Betty placed in the stasis chamber, to prevent her body from decomposing...

I'm unsure if either of these things have been shown before, and thus wether these constitute flashbacks...

Later on, when the four Hulk Helpers meet up, to convince Sandra that she really is "Mr. Blue", Betty tells her about the golden disk that had info on blueprints for those "Hulk Guns" seen in previous story arcs, (a weapon strong enough to knock out the Hulk, and extract a sample of blood). Betty tells Sandra it was her who stashed that golden disk among Sandra's things, to help Sandra out, when she was hunting for the Hulk back in Hulk 34-39. We see a flashback to Sandra showing Bruce the Golden Disk in the log cabin on pg. 21 panel 4. This scene has been shown before though, as seen in Hulk #39...

Hulk #64
"Split Decisions pt. 5: Deja Vu"
Written by Bruce Jones
Drawn by Mike Deadato

Appearences: Bruce Banner, (he's the Hulk entirely in this issue), Doc Samson, Sandra Verdugo, Betty Ross aka "Mr. Blue", Nadia Blonsky, Mr. Lips, S-5, S-6, Ricky Myers

Synopsis: CONTINUES FROM WHERE WE LEFT OFF LAST ISSUE. VERY LITTLE TIME PASSES.

The Hulk chases the lone Krill all the way back to Secret Conspiracy's Homebase, (which apparently wasn't that far away). The Krill enters a small hole in the side of a mountain plateau in the middle of the desert. The Hulk suspects there's more to this plateau than meets the eye, and sinks his fists into it, cracking it open like a nut. Before him, we see the exposed innards of a secret base...(Off hand comment: you know, their Home Base reminds me of Madam Masque's base from Avengers vol. 3, Issues 31-32...you ever get the feeling the bad guys have secret bases hidden all over the American Southwest?)

Mr. Lips has S-5 and S-6 launch more Black Op choppers at the Hulk, and the fire misiles at him, not even slowing him down. Mr. Lips then tells them to set up a special Laser Canon, to use on the Hulk...

Meanwhile, further inside the base, we see young Ricky Myers, (the source of all the trouble behind Banner's having to be on the run from the law) being held captive in a room. A female operative agent walks in, and escorts him down the hallway to another room. She tells him to wait there, that Ricky will have a visitor soon enough.

Meanwhile, back at Nadia's house, the Krill are about to swarm again, (kept off by the dying light from the crashed choppers spotlight...the Krill can't stand bright light apparently). Samson gets the idea to knock down the water tower, which washes away the remaining Krill...

They dig the chopper out of the mud, hotwire it, and actually manage to get it to lift off. Samson, Sandra, and Betty Ross take off in the chopper, but Nadia says she wishes to stay behind, (she feels that Bruce now has Betty Ross to take care of him, and knows that Betty's jealous of her and Bruce becoming lovers, as seen back in Hulk #50-54)...So the chopper flies off in the direction the Hulk went, towards Home Base.

The Hulk destroys all the helicopters easily, and tears into the base, till he comes to a room. Inside, the female agent who was leading Ricky Myers to another nearby room tells the Hulk that what he's been looking for is just beyond that wall. Hulk of course breaks through the wall and enters the room where Ricky Myers is....only to fall into their trap. A door opens up, and a giant laser canon points at the Hulk, and fires, knocking Hulk backwards, causing the room to collapse around him. Hulk picks himself up, (apparently not injured that badily) but he immediately notices Ricky's hand outstretched from underneath the pile of rubble....

References: 

The female operative watching over Ricky says "Good Morning, Ricky. Up before the sun?" Which tells me it's before Dawn yet...

As Hulk chases the Krill, he passes a sign that reads, "Carlsbad County: 10 miles"...I want to know where the writer comes up with these names. "Carlsbad"? 

And we see that full moon again this issue....I think the artist just likes full moons...

Hulk #65
"Split Decisions pt. 6: Double Exposure"
Written by Bruce Jones
Drawn by Mike Deadato Jr.

Appearences: Bruce Banner, Doc Samson, Sandra Verdugo, Betty Ross aka "Mr. Blue", Nadia Blonsky, Mr. Lips, Ricky Myers

Synopsis: PICKS UP SHORTLY AFTER DAWN, A SHORT TIME HAS PASSED SINCE LAST ISSUE. ENTIRE ISSUE COVERS PROBABLY NO MORE THAN AN HOUR OR TWO...

Dyalight: The chopper carrying Doc Samson, Sandra, and Betty arrives at Home Base. The place is in ruins. But thinking Ricky might be alive in the ruins, they head inside...flashlights and guns in their hands. 

Meanwhile, Nadia is cleaning up her front lawn, which is littered with dead Krill...her house is in ruins, yet she appears content to pick up the pieces. But then she sees Bruce Banner walking up to her house from out of the desert. She takes him in and they sit down and talk.

Sandra and Betty stumble across the "body" or Ricky Myers, who's outstretched hand from the rubble we saw at the end of last issue...the dig the body out, only to discover it's an android dummy, (we've seen android duplicates of Ricky before, as seen back in Hulk #48-49)...our heroes then wander into a room where they find themselves surrounded by Krill. Sitting in a chair in the center of this dark room is Mr. Lips. Mr. Lips is in "revelation" mode, and shows them that even though the Hulk has trashed this base, the Secret Conspiracy is not out of business. With a push of a button, he opens up another room, where we see dozens of chambers, each one holding various figures. They're all clones. We see some contain clones of Sandra Verdugo. Mr. Lips reveals that Sandra herself is a clone, who's gone rogue, in her effort to save Ricky Myers, her 'son'...in fact, the real Sandra Verdugo really did die back in Hulk #36, being executed by lethal injection in prison, (as was shown in that issue). This comes as a shock to Sandra...this is the source of her regeneration powers....and why she keeps coming back to life....but she's not really alive...she's a 'zombie' clone...

We learn that the Secret Conspiracy got a hold of a sample of Banner's blood months ago, but could only use it to grow clones of Banner...not Hulk clones...this is why they need the Hulks blood: They want to create an army of cloned Hulks...

Mr. Lips then turns on a monitor and shows that the REAL Ricky Myers is being held in a room deeper inside the base. He says he'll let them have Ricky back, as long as they'll escort him to the surface, along with a lone Krill in his possesion. This is the Krill who sucked the Hulk's blood...Sandra starts to agree, but Betty sees the danger in letting Mr. Lips have that Hulk blood, and so she shoots the Krill in Mr. Lips lap. Mr. Lips, now angry, orders the Krill surrounding our heroes to attack. Just then, Doc Samson appears, (he had gotten seperated from the two women) and sets off the sprinkler system. This shorts out the Krill. He then pulls out a gun and fires on Mr. Lips...who's head explodes...except it turns out it wasn't his head...just another television monitor, attached to another android body, (he was never really there...and because of the dark lighting in the room, we never did see the full face on the monitor...so his identity yet eludes us...)

Meanwhile, Nadia and Bruce are talking over the events, when Bruce says, "Enough talking!" and starts to kiss her. She pulls away from his embrace, figuring something's wrong, and Bruce starts to attack her...he then reveals that he's a clone of Bruce Banner, sent by Home Base to kill her! Which he about does, but just then, the REAL Hulk bursts in, and kills the clone of Banner.

Back at the ruins of Home Base, Sandra is in despair and runs off deeper into the base in search of Ricky. Betty and Doc Samson try to stop her, but a cave in of the wreckage seperates the two of them from Sandra. Betty then finds out that now that the place is in ruins, a back up device has kicked into gear, which will detonate a nucleur bomb...it's to destroy any evidence that the Secret Conspiracy was ever here. Betty gets Samson to leave the base, and they run back out to the chopper. Samson contemplates running back inside, but Betty says there's no time, they have to get out of there, and knocks out Samson with some knock out gas, (now where she got that stuff, I dunno...but I guess she grabbed it off the shelf from back inside the base?) So they take off in the chopper...

Inside the base, Sandra finally stumbles into a room where she finds Ricky, along with the female operative who was watching over the boy. Sandra and Ricky embrace, mother and son reunited...just as the base goes up in a fiery nucleur explosion...Doc Samson and Betty Ross fly away in the chopper, escaping the blast, (Samson whispers, "Sandra", lost in sadness) and on Nadia's front porch, Nadia and the real Banner, (the Hulk powered down) hug each other as the watch the mushroom cloud float up from a valley nearby...

References: None, besides the plot points I tried to make sense of above...

That's the end of this "Split Decisions" story arc. The next arc picks up right where this one left off, and sets up what I see has been laid down in this issue, (I'm also going by what I see revealed in Preview Blurbs for upcoming issues): Banner and Nadia are now together, and Samson and Betty are now together. And the story's moving towards those couples falling in love with each other...

Samson's going to be remorseful that Ricky is dead...but then again, are Ricky and Sandra truly dead? They look like they went up in smoke with Home Base, but I wouldn't be suprised if we're being fooled somehow... 

OTHER THOUGHTS ON HULK'S TIMELINE:

Okay, as I've discussed elsewhere, Hulk has appeared in some other titles as of late. The problem is, those appearances are for Stupid Hulk. The Hulk we see in the Hulk title as of late is NOT Stupid Hulk...it's either a pure silent rampaging Beast, or Banner, in control of the Hulk's body. I think we've reached some conclusions on the Hulks appearance in Punisher 33-37. That's either before Hulk #34, or if not, a good explanation is that the amnesia caused a relapse, bringing forth Stupid Hulk from the dark recesses of Banner's memory...

But then we have Hulk's appearance in Avengers #74 and 75...that was Stupid Hulk as well...but that's only half the problem. We saw Doc Samson in those issues of Avengers as well. Not on the run trying to aid Banner. Oh no...instead, he's helping the U.S. military hunt down the Hulk! With an almost hatred of the Hulk, we haven't seen from Samson since Samson was a part of the Hulkbusters! Add on top of that he's not wearing an eyepatch, (which he's done since Hulk #44, because of the eye camera the Secret Conspiracy put in his head) and you have two very different takes on a character...so how in the WORLD are we going to reconcile these differences? Only thing I can think of is that MAYBE this is after Bruce Jones' story arcs progress a little...maybe Samson really IS mad at the death of Ricky and Sandra, (IF they stay dead) and blames the Hulk...and thus, joins back up with the military to hunt the Hulk down...and as preview blurbs have hinted, Samson's falling in love with Betty, (really, he's probably just turning to her out of grief that Sandra's dead) and you have the slimer of hope that maybe this plot will make sense in conjunction with Avengers...

*sigh* We're going to have to deal with hurdles like this from here on out...that article I linked to in another thread basically had the Editor of the Marvel Knights line of comics say that basically, "I think the Marvel Universe is a big enough place for both versions"....yeah, but doesn't anyone remember that somewhere in there, there needs to be some continuity?

Wait and see...

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Re: Chronology Review for Hulk #60-65!
Posted by ShadZ on February 12, 2004 at 12:26:58:
In Reply to: Chronology Review for Hulk #60-65! 
posted by Kevin on February 11, 2004 at 21:27:08:

> As Hulk chases the Krill, he passes a sign that reads, "Carlsbad County: 10 miles"...I want to know where the writer comes up with these names. "Carlsbad"? 

Carlsbad, New Mexico is a real place. It's the nearest city to Carlsbad Caverns National Park (but still 20 miles away). There is not, however, a Carlsbad County, New Mexico. Carlsbad and Carlsbad Caverns are in Eddy County. 

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Re: Chronology Review for Hulk #60-65!
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 15, 2004 at 14:52:28:
In Reply to: Chronology Review for Hulk #60-65! 
posted by Kevin on February 11, 2004 at 21:27:08:

> Chronology Review for Incredible Hulk #60 to #65.

Thanks, Kevin. I've added these issues of Hulk to the calendar on the dates February 19 and 20, and the full moon seen in several of these issues should be accurate.

There's still plenty of time between this point and A3 74-75 (which I have in July), so it may be possible for Stupid Hulk and an Army-assisting Doc Samson to appear there after issues of H3 that are not yet published. Still another "wait and see."

(And I still have Hulk/Wolverine: Six Hours in June -- between H3 65 and A3 74.)

--Paul B.

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Re: Chronology Review for Hulk #60-65!
Posted by Kevin on February 15, 2004 at 15:18:27:
In Reply to: Re: Chronology Review for Hulk #60-65! 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 15, 2004 at 14:52:28:

Okay, sounds fine. Wait...late July? You have snow falling in Bone, Idaho in late July?!?!? 

Eh....maybe "wait and see?" ;-)

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Re: Chronology Review for Hulk #60-65!
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 15, 2004 at 21:46:13:
In Reply to: Re: Chronology Review for Hulk #60-65! 
posted by Kevin on February 15, 2004 at 15:18:27:

Yup. Topical snow in late July...at least for now. The next day, in A3 76, we see people wearing shorts and T-shirts in New York, and in A3 77, a man is reading a newspaper with a headline about the Red Skull being stopped (from the Red Zone storyline, which is supposed to occur during warm weather season, presumably summer), so some reference is going to have to give. As you know I hesitate to pad a lot of time into the calendar and will "wait and see" if I have substantial enough reason to do so. The snow and fall references in the "Search for She-Hulk" story don't provide substantial enough reason, yet.

--Paul B. 

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Strange Tales #120 placement
Posted by Nathan P. Mahney on February 12, 2004 at 06:57:42:

I was going through some X-Men chronologies, and I noticed that in the timelines for the original X-Men you have STRANGE TALES #120 sandwiched into the middle of X-MEN #5 (as did Marvel Saga). I'm assuming that the gap in X-MEN #5 occurs between the X-Men returning home and then seeing the Toad on TV?

It's a placement that's always bugged me, to be honest, and now I think I have some proof to refute it.

At the start of STRANGE TALES #120, Johnny Storm is reading the paper. A headline says "X-Men Battle Brotherhood of Evil Mutants!" With the current chronology, that would refer to the battle in Santo Marco in X-MEN #4, yes?

But, in X-MEN #5 Mastermind remarks that they have been searching for the X-Men for weeks. This probably wouldn't have been during X-MEN #4, because they were most likely too busy ruling Santo Marco. After they are ousted from Santo Marco makes more sense. And the X-Men have just spent quite some time driving back from South America.

The paper Johnny is reading would probably not be reporting a story from weeks ago. It would be more logical for the report to be about the battle in X-MEN #5, when Angel is kidnapped. I will concede that Johnny could be reading an old newspaper, but I can't see Reed letting old newspapers lie about the Baxter Building.

As well as the above, there are some other reasons I'd prefer to see STRANGE TALES #120 after X-MEN #5. One is Professor X - while he displays no telepathy in STRANGE TALES #120, he still seems more commanding than he was while powerless in X-MEN #5. Also, I doubt the X-Men would be dating the very night they return from Santo Marco with an injured professor...

So, I suggest moving STRANGE TALES #120 after X-MEN #5 in the chronologies of all the original X-Men. I don't know how this would affect the FF, if at all.

- Nathan P. Mahney - 

			*	*	*

More X-Corrections
Posted by David Hall on February 12, 2004 at 19:48:18:

PROSPERO, DR./HARPER

He should be listed as Harper/ Dr. Prospero as he uses the name Harper a lot more, and Dr. Prospero is an alias.

**XFAC 123
**UX 337 
**X 57
**XFAC 128 
**Cable 40
**UX 343
W2 116
W2 117


DARIA
GENX 20
GENX 23
**GenX 27
**GenX 28
**GenX 28/2
**Gen X 29
**W2 115
**Gen X 30
GENX 31


Beast
UX 350
** JIM 513 (Hes in the 1st panel with Cyclops and Phoenix)
X 70
X 71
UX 352
ASM 429
X 72

Wolverine
ELEK 14
W2 119
W2 120
W2 121
W2 122
**MAV 4
UX 353
UX 354-FB
UX 353

Seraph (has no listing, should be added)
**W2 126-FB
**UX 268
**W2 126-FB

X-Man
XM 39
**XM 40
(XM '98) in wrong place
**XM 41-FB
XM 41
**XM 98
XM 42

Why does X-Man '98 come after 41? Simple, in '98 X-Man 41 is refered to, as Nate has lost his telepathy, which happend in XM 41. Also in XM 41-FB Maddy teleported Nate to Europe, which is where he is in XM '98.

Jean Grey -998 (or Madelyne Pryor II)
XM 39
**XM 40
**XM 41-FB
XM 41
XM 42
XM 43

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ANNOUNCE: Message Board
Posted by Administrator on February 12, 2004 at 23:13:27:

Effective Saturday, February 21, we will suspend operation of the current Message Board and migrate to a new system.

The phpBB program is one of the more popular message boards on the Internet. If you've visited many boards, I'm sure you've run across it. It brings us many new options and features, including a search function and private messaging. It's much more graphical and, I think, user-friendly.

We're making the change mainly because of security concerns, of which I won't go into the details. You *will* need to register in order to post, but registration is simple and painless, and your email address is hidden from spiders and bots, unless you make a point of posting it.

Your board of directors is currently learning the nooks and crannies of moderating the new software.

Be sure to join us next Saturday as we inaugurate the new Boards.

			*	*	*

The Pulse #1 preview pages -- back to the old DD2 #56 argument...
Posted by Jeph! on February 13, 2004 at 00:24:44:

Hey, should I be double-posting this on the new board? :-)

I just read the four "First Look" pages for The Pulse #1 and DD2 #57 -- available at the link below -- and I noticed a few things.

One, the DD2 #56-FB sequence where he battles the Yakuza, is referenced as "yesterday". Meaning, it IS actually a full year since DD2 #50.

Two, Ben Urich's Bugle article in The Pulse #1, about a "Yakuza outburst in Hell's Kitchen", is a clear reference to the battle Matt's about to fight in DD2 #57. Meaning that The Pulse #1 also occurs a year after DD2 #50, and therefore a year after Alias #17 or whatever the DD/Alias crossover issue was.

Three, in The Pulse #1, Jessica Jones still isn't visibly pregnant.

Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhggh.

A while back, I mentioned that Bendis seems to cavalierly throw around temporal and calendar references without actually thinking how they fit together (like the "it's well past July in DD2 #39, but April in Alias #17" bit that I pointed out recently).

This is clearly another case of Bendis just not thinking about how his books interact.

And if he doesn't ... well, why should we?

I'm seriously suggesting that some of Bendis' more troublesome temporal references, like the full year passing ... should be ignored.

Thoughts?

Or should we actually wait for the books to hit the stands? :-)

-Jeph! 

			*	*	*

Re: The Pulse #1 preview pages -- back to the old DD2 #56 argument...
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 13, 2004 at 05:05:49:
In Reply to: The Pulse #1 preview pages -- back to the old DD2 #56 argument... 
posted by Jeph! on February 13, 2004 at 00:24:44:

> I'm seriously suggesting that some of Bendis' more troublesome temporal references, like the full year passing ... should be ignored.

You can't entirely ignore the year gap in Daredevil because, in plot terms, that period has to accommodate extensive building programmes and regeneration in Hell's Kitchen. There's just no way that happens overnight.

However, I've never been one for taking "one year later" references absolutely literally. I see things like that as falling within artistic licence. 

			*	*	*

Re: The Pulse #1 preview pages -- back to the old DD2 #56 argument...
Posted by Kevin on February 13, 2004 at 17:04:20:
In Reply to: The Pulse #1 preview pages -- back to the old DD2 #56 argument... 
posted by Jeph! on February 13, 2004 at 00:24:44:

Okay, I looked over the previews. I'm not convinced that that Yakuza attack in the random paragraph from the newspaper page in the pages of Pulse #1 is the same as the attack on Murdock in the current DD storyline. I mean, yeah, they're both being released at the same time, (this month)...but the blurb from the paper reads as follows:

"Yakuza Outburst in Hell's Kitchen" by Ben Urich

"A quiet night in Hell's Kitchen quickly became a hotbed of excitement. A mob hit went out of control and the hitman's car found it's way into a local store's front window."

Now so far, (though we don't have the whole issue yet) we see a hundred Yakuza thugs walking towards Murdock, wanting to take him out...no sign of a hitman's car. No sign of a car crashing into a local store's front window...

Though we should probably wait and see...but c'mon, Bendis may play loose with the facts, but surely he'd realize that by one year later, Jessica's baby would already be born...

Other thoughts on the Pulse: I can tell right now that this continuity heavy title will be a problem for us...besides that Yakuza blurb, there's a blurb about Doctor Connors, (the Lizard) and something about Spiderman being an accused murderer...well, the Lizard IS going to be in an upcoming storyarc of Spectacular Spiderman, but what are the odds the events will match up with what's detailed in that little blurb?

It's going to be problematic, just like that "Deadline" miniseries was, (and is), I can just tell...but I don't think that Yakuza reference is worrysome...yet...

			*	*	*

Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 13, 2004 at 21:09:43:
In Reply to: Re: The Pulse #1 preview pages -- back to the old DD2 #56 argument... 
posted by Kevin on February 13, 2004 at 17:04:20:

Two points:

1) Isn't that scene with the Yakuza in DD2 56-57 a flashback that occurs some undetermined time before the framing scenes in those issues? And isn't it the framing scenes that occur "almost a year to the day" after DD2 50? If so, the flashbacks, and PULSE 1, could happen months before the first anniversary of DD2 50. Of course, this may well require that we list DD's appearances in his own title "out of order," with some scenes in the current storyline occurring before some scenes in the Maya storyline in DD2 53-55. Not a big problem if we remember that were talking about *flashbacks* in DD2 56-57.

2) I'm still holding out for a second...um... romantic liaison between Luke and Jessica, one that would have occurred sometime between ALIAS 21 and 24. This liaison (circa March 1) would be the one that occurred "three months" prior to ALIAS 28 (May 30).

3) Combining the second tryst idea with the DD2 56-57 flashback concept, we could make sense of the fact that Jessica isn't visibly pregnant in PULSE 1.

An extra note:
We also see Luke and Jessica as a couple in this week's Secret War #1. In this comic (which occurs "one year" after a scene that features Thor with the Avengers in his Lord Thor raiment), Jessica is not visibly pregnant and Cage ends up in a coma from an explosion.

My inclination is to put Secret War #1 shortly after ALIAS 28 (early June). This would make it logical for Jessica's pregnancy not to show and would not muck up any flow of continuity that might be coming in PULSE. Of course, we would need to allow time for Luke to recover (which I assume he does) between Secret War and PULSE 1, but it may not have to be overly long.

In conclusion, I think there are ways we can make sense out of a situation in which writers are not necessarily placing a premium on continuity, chronology, or logical calendar references. As usual with current storylines, we'll have to wait and see if my suggestions hold water or if we'll need to come up with another plan.

--Paul B.

			*	*	*

Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 13, 2004 at 21:35:48:
In Reply to: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 13, 2004 at 21:09:43:

> An extra note:
> We also see Luke and Jessica as a couple in this week's Secret War #1. In this comic (which occurs "one year" after a scene that features Thor with the Avengers in his Lord Thor raiment), Jessica is not visibly pregnant and Cage ends up in a coma from an explosion.

> My inclination is to put Secret War #1 shortly after ALIAS 28 (early June). This would make it logical for Jessica's pregnancy not to show and would not muck up any flow of continuity that might be coming in PULSE. Of course, we would need to allow time for Luke to recover (which I assume he does) between Secret War and PULSE 1, but it may not have to be overly long.

Of course, after I post this I take note of the reference in Secret War #1 to the Indiana Pacers having "won six straight since losing at New Jersey on Nov. 1." That reference, if not declared topical, would force a reshuffling of DD2, ALIAS, PULSE, and A3, and perhaps IM3 too, all to make sense of Jessica's pregancy. We also have a reference in Secret War #1 to the U.S. Secretary of Defense, who is unnamed. Either this is Dell Rusk (which could conflict with a November placement) or a new cabinet member who is installed after the current IM3 storyline, which shows Tony Stark trying for that job.

--Paul B.

			*	*	*

Latveria and Secret War #1
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 13, 2004 at 22:18:25:
In Reply to: Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 13, 2004 at 21:35:48:

I've been a little confused about the chronology of Dr. Doom and his involvement with Counter Earth and Latveria in recent years. Placement of Secret War #1 will depend, in part, on a reference made in a flashback scene that is supposed to occur "one year" before Secret War #1. In this flashback, Lucia Von Bardas is prime minister of Latveria; she was elected with U.S. backing and has a "pleasant relationship" with an unnamed U.S. Secretary of Defense (may be different from the one Fury notes in the "current" part of Secret War #1 and is likely Dell Rusk in the flashback). Is this flashback supposed to occur during the time Doom was on Counter Earth? Has Von Bardas been seen before? And exactly when did Doom regain Latveria?

--Paul

			*	*	*

Re: Latveria and Secret War #1
Posted by Kevin on February 14, 2004 at 00:27:13:
In Reply to: Latveria and Secret War #1 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 13, 2004 at 22:18:25:


> I've been a little confused about the chronology of Dr. Doom and his involvement with Counter Earth and Latveria in recent years. Placement of Secret War #1 will depend, in part, on a reference made in a flashback scene that is supposed to occur "one year" before Secret War #1. In this flashback, Lucia Von Bardas is prime minister of Latveria; she was elected with U.S. backing and has a "pleasant relationship" with an unnamed U.S. Secretary of Defense (may be different from the one Fury notes in the "current" part of Secret War #1 and is likely Dell Rusk in the flashback). Is this flashback supposed to occur during the time Doom was on Counter Earth? Has Von Bardas been seen before? And exactly when did Doom regain Latveria?

> --Paul

You're making me think tonight, you know that? ;-)

Dr. Doom regains control of Latveria around the time of the Doom miniseries and around FF3 30-31, all of which was published in Spring or Summer of 2000. If the U.S. was appointing a Prime Minister of Latveria, I'd dare to say this was during a time when Dr. Doom was not on the throne...meaning it must occur between Heroes Return and FF3 #31...and isn't that pushing it a bit farther than "1 year ago" as per your calender?

The other alternative, (which goes into my idea of pushing Secret War #1 forward) is to have this U.S. appointed Prime Minister occur after the U.N. seizes control of Latveria from the Fantastic Four, as per current issues of FF...that might makes sense, if Bendis is thinking of Waid's current storyline of the last year on FF, and not about some storyline from 3 or 4 years ago in real life...

			*	*	*

Re: Latveria and Secret War #1
Posted by Dimadick on February 14, 2004 at 10:31:22:
In Reply to: Re: Latveria and Secret War #1 
posted by Kevin on February 14, 2004 at 00:27:13:

Kevin is probably right. In Fantastic Four #508, pages 21-22 reportedly occure six weeks after the deaths of Victor von Doom and Benjamin J. Grimm. A news report in page 21 comments that "the wealthy nation of Latveria" is "enjoying its first democratic regime in years" and that "U.N forces have, as promised, repeated". Bendis presumably created Lucia Von Bardas as the figurehead of this new democratic regime.

As for athe recent history of Latveria perhaps Paul should consult the article of that name by Sean Kleefeld:http://www.ffplaza.com/commcenter/articles/Latveria.shtml

According to it the recent line of rulers of Latveria goes as following:

1)Victor Von Doom reclaimed his throne from Nathaniel Richards in Fantastic Four #409. He only holds it briefly before he is transported to Counter Earth in Marvel:Onslaught.

2)Nathaniel Richards and Kristoff Vernard jointly attempt to reclaim the throne in Tales of the Marvel Universe #1 but the remaining Doombots drive them out.

3)The same issue introduces Dmitri Fortunov, an illegitimate heir of the original Latverian dynasty. He appears in charge of Latveria in X-Force #63-64.

4)The throne is then seized briefly by Dreadknight in Spider-Man Unlimited #16.

5)The next monarch of Latveria was apparently Stryfe as featured in X-Man #45-47, Cable #64.

6)Reed Richards then impersonates Dr. Doom from Fantastic Four III #26-31. The original manages to privately depose him and reclaims his throne in the later issue.

7)Victor remains the monarch of Latveria until his exile to hell in Fantastic Four #500.

8)Reed claims the throne of Latveria for a second time in Fantastic Four #503-508.

9)He is deposed in the later issue and apparently replaced by Lucia Von Bardas sometime before Secret War #1.

A rough few year for Latveria, weren't they?

			*	*	*

Re: Latveria and Secret War #1
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 14, 2004 at 11:31:14:
In Reply to: Re: Latveria and Secret War #1 
posted by Dimadick on February 14, 2004 at 10:31:22:

> A rough few year for Latveria, weren't they?

Makes the Central African Republic look like a model of stability!

I tend to agree with the inference that Von Bardas was installed as Prime Minister after the Fantastic Four were driven out. It seems to me that the natural explanation of the "one year ago" flashbacks in SECRET WARS is that this is a quarterly series projected to last a year; the flashbacks are probably "now", and the framing sequence represents where the Marvel Universe is going to be when the series wraps up. 

			*	*	*

Latveria, Secret War #1 and Jessica Jones
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 17:11:24:
In Reply to: Re: Latveria and Secret War #1 
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 14, 2004 at 11:31:14:

> > A rough few year for Latveria, weren't they?

> Makes the Central African Republic look like a model of stability!

> I tend to agree with the inference that Von Bardas was installed as Prime Minister after the Fantastic Four were driven out. It seems to me that the natural explanation of the "one year ago" flashbacks in SECRET WARS is that this is a quarterly series projected to last a year; the flashbacks are probably "now", and the framing sequence represents where the Marvel Universe is going to be when the series wraps up.

If the "year ago" flashback occurs after FF3 509, then that means that Luke Cage and Jessica Jones appear in the "now" portion of Secret War #1 (might I suggest SECWAR 1 as an abbreviation?) quite some time after PULSE 1, and actually some time after her baby's due date. That would explain why she doesn't look pregnant in SECWAR 1 -- it's post-birth or post-miscarriage.

--Paul B.

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Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War
Posted by Kevin on February 14, 2004 at 00:20:36:
In Reply to: Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 13, 2004 at 21:35:48:

> Of course, after I post this I take note of the reference in Secret War #1 to the Indiana Pacers having "won six straight since losing at New Jersey on Nov. 1." That reference, if not declared topical, would force a reshuffling of DD2, ALIAS, PULSE, and A3, and perhaps IM3 too, all to make sense of Jessica's pregancy. We also have a reference in Secret War #1 to the U.S. Secretary of Defense, who is unnamed. Either this is Dell Rusk (which could conflict with a November placement) or a new cabinet member who is installed after the current IM3 storyline, which shows Tony Stark trying for that job.

> --Paul B.

I'd like to think we'd declare a sports reference topical before sacrificing everything else...it could be a broad term...I don't have this issue yet, but uh...maybe it's "6 straight since Nov. 1st..." of last year?

			*	*	*

Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 17:19:44:
In Reply to: Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War 
posted by Kevin on February 14, 2004 at 00:20:36:

We can't interpret it that way. The full dialog goes: "The Pacers -- 7 and 1 overall and 6 and 0 at Conesco Fieldhouse -- have won six straight since losing at New Jersey on Nov. 1." This would place the "today" of SECWAR 1 squarely in mid-November. We, of course, can choose to ignore this dialogue altogether if it doesn't work.

Having looked at the thread concerning Latveria, we COULD say that the "today" of SECWAR 1 actually takes place in mid-November of the year AFTER DD2 57 and PULSE 1 (the year in which nearly all current titles are now set). One potential problem with this is that it would take the other titles a couple of "real-life" years to catch up to the point of SECWAR. Comics published in 2006 would be contemporaneous with SECWAR; how well do you think the folks at Marvel will get *that* chronology to work?

--Paul B.

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Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War
Posted by Kevin on February 14, 2004 at 00:14:43:
In Reply to: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 13, 2004 at 21:09:43:


> Two points:

> 1) Isn't that scene with the Yakuza in DD2 56-57 a flashback that occurs some undetermined time before the framing scenes in those issues? And isn't it the framing scenes that occur "almost a year to the day" after DD2 50? If so, the flashbacks, and PULSE 1, could happen months before the first anniversary of DD2 50. Of course, this may well require that we list DD's appearances in his own title "out of order," with some scenes in the current storyline occurring before some scenes in the Maya storyline in DD2 53-55. Not a big problem if we remember that were talking about *flashbacks* in DD2 56-57.

No, in those first 4 pages of DD#57, (the actual issue comes out next week I believe, and I can give more details then) we see Ben Urick referencing the attack on Matt by the Yakuza as happening "Yesterday"...so we are now caught up to one year later.

And then I argued that it was a different Yakuza attack that was mentioned in the Daily Bugle in "The Pulse #1"

> 2) I'm still holding out for a second...um... romantic liaison between Luke and Jessica, one that would have occurred sometime between ALIAS 21 and 24. This liaison (circa March 1) would be the one that occurred "three months" prior to ALIAS 28 (May 30).

> 3) Combining the second tryst idea with the DD2 56-57 flashback concept, we could make sense of the fact that Jessica isn't visibly pregnant in PULSE 1.

So those last few issues of Alias and the First issue of the Pulse, you have those clearly after DD #50, right? 

> An extra note:
> We also see Luke and Jessica as a couple in this week's Secret War #1. In this comic (which occurs "one year" after a scene that features Thor with the Avengers in his Lord Thor raiment),


The last time Thor was together with the Avengers was Avengers #56 to 59 I believe, right? When do you have those issues on the calender currently? Because the "one year later" mentioned in Secret War #1 would have to be one year after that...

>Jessica is not visibly pregnant and Cage ends up in a coma from an explosion.

Any chance this could be AFTER Jessica has her baby?

> My inclination is to put Secret War #1 shortly after ALIAS 28 (early June). This would make it logical for Jessica's pregnancy not to show and would not muck up any flow of continuity that might be coming in PULSE. Of course, we would need to allow time for Luke to recover (which I assume he does) between Secret War and PULSE 1, but it may not have to be overly long.

What if the Pulse #1 occurs before Secret War? Secret War is going to be released every 3 months...so I suspect, much like we had to shuffle DD #56 down the calender, to make it one year later, I suspect by the time this miniseries wraps up, (in 2005) we'll have needed to shuffle it down the calender as well...this would also help if it was AFTER the baby was born...this also would help with the reference to Thor (in Lord of Asgard gear) being with the Avengers...we've got to shove that 1 year into the past...

> In conclusion, I think there are ways we can make sense out of a situation in which writers are not necessarily placing a premium on continuity, chronology, or logical calendar references. As usual with current storylines, we'll have to wait and see if my suggestions hold water or if we'll need to come up with another plan.

> --Paul B.


"Wait and See" seems to be our mantra as of late. ;-) 

			*	*	*

Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 17:52:34:
In Reply to: Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War 
posted by Kevin on February 14, 2004 at 00:14:43:


> No, in those first 4 pages of DD#57, (the actual issue comes out next week I believe, and I can give more details then) we see Ben Urick referencing the attack on Matt by the Yakuza as happening "Yesterday"...so we are now caught up to one year later.

> And then I argued that it was a different Yakuza attack that was mentioned in the Daily Bugle in "The Pulse #1"

Okay, I follow now. And I don't think we've had a rebuttal to your argument, at least not yet.


> > 2) I'm still holding out for a second...um... romantic liaison between Luke and Jessica, one that would have occurred sometime between ALIAS 21 and 24. This liaison (circa March 1) would be the one that occurred "three months" prior to ALIAS 28 (May 30).

> > 3) Combining the second tryst idea with the DD2 56-57 flashback concept, we could make sense of the fact that Jessica isn't visibly pregnant in PULSE 1.

> So those last few issues of Alias and the First issue of the Pulse, you have those clearly after DD #50, right? 

That is correct. I tentatively have DD2 50 in early November, and ALIAS 24-28 late the following May.


> > An extra note:
> > We also see Luke and Jessica as a couple in this week's Secret War #1. In this comic (which occurs "one year" after a scene that features Thor with the Avengers in his Lord Thor raiment),

> 
> The last time Thor was together with the Avengers was Avengers #56 to 59 I believe, right? When do you have those issues on the calender currently? Because the "one year later" mentioned in Secret War #1 would have to be one year after that...

The segment with Thor and Iron Man fighting Killer Shrike is actually in a VIDEOTAPE that is played in the flashback that occurs "one year" before the "today" of SECWAR 1. That makes the Thor videotape SECWAR 1-FB-FB. And that flashback within a flashback could have occurred many months before SECWAR 1-FB.

My theory is that Shrike was defeated by the Avengers on July 9, the day between A3 60 (pages 25-28) and A3 61. During this time Lord Thor was with the Avengers; he did hang around with the team for a couple of days after Scorpio's defeat in A3 60 and finally took off in A3 61.

I further theorize that after his apprehension, Shrike went through the criminal justice system and the wheels turned slowly...until SHIELD (following an interrogation of Jack O'Lantern concerning the Tinkerer sometime after DEADLINE 4, which occurs in December) makes it a point to haul in a bunch of "technologically themed criminals" for questioning. They haul Shrike's butt out of jail (where he's awaiting trial) and threaten him to cooperate in finding the Tinkerer or he'll end up in Ryker's Prison. Shrike wants a lawyer (an indication that this scene is pre-trial).

The scene with Killer Shrike occurs earlier in the day that Black Widow reports that Tinkerer has arrived in Latveria. Because Nick Fury reports days later that Lucia Von Bardas is the elected prime minister of Latveria, the Shrike scene occurs after FF 509, which I have in the summer of the year after DEADLINE 4, because of a reference to Franklin's (late August) birthday approaching during the FF's takeover of Latveria. (I'll post another conundrum about Franklin's birthday, which is also cited in 4 #1.)

Now this would mean that Killer Shrike was sitting in stir for over a year after his apprehension by the Avengers, but as I said, the wheels of justice move slowly.

--Paul B.

			*	*	*

Re: Jack O'Lantern confusion
Posted by John Simons on February 16, 2004 at 01:00:42:
In Reply to: Re: Alias, Pulse, Daredevil, and Secret War 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 17:52:34:

> 
>until SHIELD (following an interrogation of Jack O'Lantern concerning the Tinkerer sometime after DEADLINE 4, which occurs in December) 

I was pretty confused by the entire Macendale element of this book. Macendale has been dead for quite some time, and prior to that he was the second Hobgoblin for quite some time (both of these facts are acknowledged at the beginning of the SHIELD file in the back of the book). I don't think he's been Jack O'Lantern since about 1988 or so (real time, that is). So when the hell is this interview supposed to have taken place? The file is dated 4/5/2003, but in a story that appears to start in the future and then gives us flashbacks within flashbacks, what does that really mean?

Did Macendale ever appear as Jack O'Lantern again after he took on the Hobgoblin identity? Is Bendis implying that he survived the original Hobgoblin's assassination attempt and resumed the Jack O'Lantern identity in the recent past? I can't make any sense of this. 

			*	*	*

Re: Jack O'Lantern confusion
Posted by Dimadick on February 16, 2004 at 07:14:55:
In Reply to: Re: Jack O'Lantern confusion 
posted by John Simons on February 16, 2004 at 01:00:42:

Is this Jack O'Lantern clearly identified to be Jason Philip Macendale? He is the creator of this identity since Machine Man #19 (February, 1981). But he reportedly last used the Jack O'Lantern identity in Web of Spider-Man #29 (August, 1987). He then became the fourth Hobgoblin, succeeding the reportedly deceased Roderick Kingsley, Arnold "Lefty" Donovan and Ned Leeds. Jason himself was reported deceased in Spider-Man: Hobgoblin Lives #1 (January, 1997). Roderick supposedly had only faked his death and returned. If the Jack O'Lantern of Secret War is Jason then its his first appearance in seven years.

But a second Jack O'Lantern debuted in Captain America #396 (January, 1992). He appeared in Captain America I #396-398, 405-410, Alpha Flight I #121, Spider-Man Unlimited #12 and The Hood #2-4, 6. The later issue serves as his last appearance and was published in October, 2002.His identity was never revealed. See:http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/jackolsk.htm

Could the Jack O'Lantern of Secret War be Jack O'Lantern II making his first appearance in two years?

A third Jack O'Lantern debuted in Spectacular Spider-Man #241 (December, 1996). The identity was later revealed to be shared between Daniel Berkhart and Maguire Beck. Maguire was the one apprehended in Spider-Man:Mysterio Manifesto #3 (March, 2001). Could she be making her first appearance in three years in Secret War?

Her partner Daniel reportedly escaped to reassume the identity of Mysterio II. He was last seen in Spider-Man:Get Kraven #1 (August, 2002). Could he be assuming his other older identity and making his first appearance in two years?

Was Jack clearly identified to be one of the four individuals to have used the identity or could this be any of them?

By the way the Project assumes Jack O'Lantern II to be the same as Maguire Beck but the former is a proffessional mercenary while the later seems to operate in an agenta of personal revenge. Were they clearly identified to be the same person at some point?

Jack II seems to be the last of them seen active. He has been seen working alongside Beetle, Blackwing, Boomerang, Constrictor, Crossbones, Cutthroat, Dennis "Golem" Golembuski, Madame Rapier, Mother Night, Red Skull, Scorpia and the Shocker. Were any of them mentioned in his testimony? 

			*	*	*

Re: Jack O'Lantern confusion
Posted by John Simons on February 16, 2004 at 12:29:13:
In Reply to: Re: Jack O'Lantern confusion 
posted by Dimadick on February 16, 2004 at 07:14:55:

Well, this is very interesting, because "Maguire Beck" is listed in Secret War #1 as an alias of Macendale. Does it make any sense at all that they could be one and the same? Particularly since your description describes Maguire Beck as a woman!

Here's the pertinent data from the SHIELD file:

----------------------------------------------------
REAL NAME: Jason Macendale Jr.

AKA: Maguire Beck, Mad Jack, Jack O'Lantern, Hobgoblin

IDENTITY: Secret; became the second Hobgoblin until his death at the hands of the original Hobgoblin.

RELATIVES: None known

HEIGHT: 6 ft. 1 in.

WEIGHT: 210 libs.

EYES: Brown

HAIR: Black

GROUP AFFILIATIONS: Norman Osborn, Maggia

ENEMIES: Spider-Man, Silver Sable

POWERS: Military training, hand-to-hand combat, & Martial Arts

WEAPONS: Anaesthetic, lachrymal, regurgitant gas, smoke, & concussion grenades. Bulletproof helmet with telescopic infrared image intensifiers. Body armor made of metal-covered, multi-segment Kevlar panels. High-frequency electric transducers wrist blasters. 
----------------------------------------------------
This file seems to imply that he died in Hobgoblin Lives #1 AND he is the Maguire Beck Jack. Does this compute?

			*	*	*

Re: Jack O'Lantern confusion
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 16, 2004 at 07:20:34:
In Reply to: Re: Jack O'Lantern confusion 
posted by John Simons on February 16, 2004 at 01:00:42:

> > 
> >until SHIELD (following an interrogation of Jack O'Lantern concerning the Tinkerer sometime after DEADLINE 4, which occurs in December) 

> I was pretty confused by the entire Macendale element of this book. Macendale has been dead for quite some time, and prior to that he was the second Hobgoblin for quite some time (both of these facts are acknowledged at the beginning of the SHIELD file in the back of the book). I don't think he's been Jack O'Lantern since about 1988 or so (real time, that is). So when the hell is this interview supposed to have taken place? The file is dated 4/5/2003, but in a story that appears to start in the future and then gives us flashbacks within flashbacks, what does that really mean?

Thanks for noticing that reference to the date of Macendale's interrogation. I'll look into that, but I don't think it's going to work. It would force Reed Richards' chronology in FF and DD2 56-FB to a point that may be too early.


> Did Macendale ever appear as Jack O'Lantern again after he took on the Hobgoblin identity? Is Bendis implying that he survived the original Hobgoblin's assassination attempt and resumed the Jack O'Lantern identity in the recent past? I can't make any sense of this. 

The guy who replaced Macendale as Jack O'Lantern appeared most recently in HOOD #6 -- at least I'm assuming that was Jack II. I haven't seen any reference to Macendale resurfacing and taking that guy's place before Secret War.

--Paul B.

			*	*	*

Jessica's pregnancy
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 21:42:43:
In Reply to: The Pulse #1 preview pages -- back to the old DD2 #56 argument... 
posted by Jeph! on February 13, 2004 at 00:24:44:

Aha!

I've found proof that Jessica and Luke did have a liaison during the time that she was going out with Scott Lang.

In ALIAS 28, Jessica tells Scott that she is "three months pregnant," and Scott thinks that the baby may be his before she tells him it isn't. It's Luke's.

As far as we knew, the only time Luke and Jessica had sex was in ALIAS 1, BUT they would have had to get together again, sometime after Jessica started dating Scott in ALIAS 15.

Given that "two months" pass between pages 11 and 12 of ALIAS 12 alone, then surely a pregnancy by Luke from ALIAS 1 couldn't be mistaken for a pregnancy by Scott from after ALIAS 15.

Therefore, Jessica's pregancy with Luke's child is NOT from the liaison of ALIAS 1, but from an unpublished event we can place "three months" before ALIAS 28, wherever on the calendar that fits best.

This solves our calendar placement problems and means that PULSE 1 can still occur before Jessica starts to show.

--Paul B.

			*	*	*

Re: Jessica's pregnancy
Posted by Jeph! on February 14, 2004 at 22:12:04:
In Reply to: Jessica's pregnancy 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 21:42:43:

Wait, what?

Let me try to rephrase what you're saying:

Jessica told Scott that she's three months pregnant. Because he thinks the baby may be his, that means she and Scott have been dating for at least three months (beginning in Alias #15).

Right?

So, she must have been impregnated by Luke sometime close to the start of her relationship with Scott. And since Alias #1, where we know she slept with Luke, is at least two months prior to Alias #15 ... it couldn't have been the same event. Or else she'd be closer to five months pregnant.

Right?

Right.

-Jeph! 

			*	*	*

Re: Jessica's pregnancy
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 22:21:05:
In Reply to: Re: Jessica's pregnancy 
posted by Jeph! on February 14, 2004 at 22:12:04:

Yup, that's what I'm saying. But we don't have to assume her second liaison with Luke was close to the *beginning* of her relationship with Scott, do we? The relationship with Scott could have gone on for more than three months. (I'm actually counting on that.)

I don't get the impression that her relationship with Scott, although months-long, was necessarily going anywhere, and it is possible for Luke and Jessica to have gotten together at some point in a moment of weakness, drunkenness, or whatever.

--Paul

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"I see dead people!"
Posted by captamr on February 13, 2004 at 00:26:52:

It was always my understanding that a deceased persons appearance constituted a listing (sometimes even his or hers last appearance  so possibly some significance). Marvel cleaned house in 1986 by having Scourge wipe out almost 30 second and third string super-villains. 18 of the baddies were taken out at one time in Capt. America #319. In CA 320, pg. 5 a pile of corpses is shown and at least 8 of the bodies can be positively identified:

Birdman, Mirage, Jaguar, Turner D. Century, Cyclone, Cheetah, Ringer, and Commander Kraken. Two others are probably the Vamp and Hell-Razor but I cant be sure.

At the very least CA 320 yields two other listings in a FB:

SCORGE
**CA 320  FB
IM 194
TG 24

ENFORCER/ DELAZNY
**CA 320  FB
GR2 21  BTS
GR2 22

Both additions would be first appearances.

This also makes me wonder if a particular issue holds the record for contributions to the chronology? Maybe a Secret Wars?


Charlie

			*	*	*

Re: "I see dead people!"
Posted by Administrator on February 13, 2004 at 00:46:01:
In Reply to: "I see dead people!" 
posted by captamr on February 13, 2004 at 00:26:52:

> This also makes me wonder if a particular issue holds the record for contributions to the chronology? Maybe a Secret Wars?

Contest of Champions #1

			*	*	*

Re: "I see dead people!"
Posted by OnionMan on February 13, 2004 at 03:19:14:
In Reply to: Re: "I see dead people!" 
posted by Administrator on February 13, 2004 at 00:46:01:

> > This also makes me wonder if a particular issue holds the record for contributions to the chronology? Maybe a Secret Wars?

> Contest of Champions #1


Or, perhaps Incredible Hulk #279. If i remeber correctly there were loads of heroes in that issue to celebrate Hulks Amnesty.

/ OnionMan 

			*	*	*

Re: "I see dead people!"
Posted by Administrator on February 13, 2004 at 08:59:07:
In Reply to: Re: "I see dead people!" 
posted by OnionMan on February 13, 2004 at 03:19:14:

It's COC 1, according to a Spanish government study which used the MCP for its data.

http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/cond-mat/0202174

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Enforcer Flashback in Cap#320 is a phony flashback....
Posted by John McDonagh on February 13, 2004 at 16:25:29:
In Reply to: "I see dead people!" 
posted by captamr on February 13, 2004 at 00:26:52:

The Official Handbook Deluxe Edition entry for Scourge and the Enforcer points out that the flashback in Captain America#320 is a bogus flashback. 

Why? Because Mark Gruenwald used the original Official Handbook for a reference as to the Enforcer's backstory-and the original official handbook was completely incorrect in this regard!
The original Handbook listed the Enforcer's real name as Carson Collier, Jr., when he was really Charles L. Delazny, Jr. 

"Furthermore, the account given by the man Captain America apprehended is at least in part fraudulent. For one thing, the Enforcer never had a younger brother. The Enforcer was actually Charles L. Delazny, Jr., the only son of the head of Delazny Studios, an independently-owned back lot and soundstage where movies were filmed in Hollywoods heyday but was now used mostly for television production. One of Charles Delazny, Sr.s longtime associates was Carson Coot Collier, Sr., a director who shot Westerns in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, and was now doing television work. Collier had a son named Carson, Jr., who was the same age as Delaznys son and the two were schoolmates at Hollywood High. Under circumstances yet to be revealed, Charles Delazny, Jr., managed to lead the authorities into thinking that Carson Collier, Jr., was the Enforcer, and it was Collier who was jailed for the Enforcers crimes, not Delazny. Scourges story of being the son of a Hollywood director of westerns could indicate that he was Carson Collier, Jr. In that case, he may have wanted revenge upon the Enforcer for framing him. It is not known what he had to gain by telling Captain America he was the Enforcers brother, however. Since Scourges body has not yet been positively identified as being that of Carson Collier, Jr., the truth about the Scourge who died cannot be verified."

			*	*	*

Re: Enforcer Flashback in Cap#320 is a phony flashback....
Posted by captamr on February 14, 2004 at 12:40:34:
In Reply to: Enforcer Flashback in Cap#320 is a phony flashback.... 
posted by John McDonagh on February 13, 2004 at 16:25:29:

This may yet be another irreconcilable difference.

Throughout his Spider-Woman appearances, the Enforcer is definitely Carson Collier, Jr. Hes visited in prison as Collier and makes no excuses about being framed or any denial that he was not the original Enforcer who tangled with Ghost Rider. He constantly is portrayed as a pretty smart crook but at no time a person of substantial wealth as would be expected from someone whose father owed a movie studio. One could argue disinheritance or bankruptcy, but still not a part of his history. In one story he comments on not passing up the box office receipts at an arena for $300,000  not the sign of a well bankrolled individual.

At the end of his first appearances when Ghost Rider unmasks him, he doesnt recognize him. One could argue that he doesnt know either seniors son Delanzy or Collier, but I would suggest that he would recognize the studio owners son rather than a directors son.

There seems to be only implications and the Deluxe Edition Handbook, which states the Enforcer as Delanzy, where the Spider Woman entries and the Official Handbook absolutely identifies him as Carson Collier, Jr.

This is not the first time that the Handbooks have clouded situations and I realize that they were intended to add new material to existing mythos but I would suggest that facts submitted in actual appearances and histories should take precedent over additional biographical information derived from Handbooks, letters pages or indexes. The accepted chronology of events should be that which makes the majority of character appearances fit logically  not an easy thing to do!

Another point that this brings up  I have complete faith in the board and the discussion process that eventually decisions could be made. These could eventually be included in listings as a footnote and made public. It would help the discussion process to know that a judgment is being made and updates are required and coming or just rejected. 
It seems that this site with its degree of knowledge and sources, access to back issues, and persistence for precision could easily be the definitive source of Marvel history. What a thought!! Ill stop now.


Charlie 

			*	*	*

Enforcer Flashback in Cap#320 may be a TRUE flashback
Posted by Don Campbell on February 16, 2004 at 15:08:59:
In Reply to: Re: Enforcer Flashback in Cap#320 is a phony flashback.... 
posted by captamr on February 14, 2004 at 12:40:34:

As someone who bought those GHOST RIDER and SPIDER-WOMAN issues when they were published, I have been bothered by the discrepancy concerning the "real identity" of the Enforcer for over 20 years now. After that MARVEL HANDBOOK entry (which tried to explain the discrepancy) came out, I thought of writing in to point out just how implausible that explanation was but I never got around to it. After all, the Enforcer wasn't just a minor character, he was a DEAD minor character, so why bother?

Within the last year, since I've been posting on this board, I've thought of posting my own explanation for the discrepancy. I even compiled the relevant information but, once again, never got around to posting it. So, thanks for giving me this opportunity.

To begin with, the MARVEL HANDBOOK's explanation that Charles L. Delazny, Jr. was able to successfully claim to be Carson Collier, Jr. while in police custody (between SW #19 and 27) seems ridiculous. After all, according to the Handbook, the real Collier had spent time in prison (after being framed by Delazny) so it's very unlikely that nobody noticed the deception. Didn't the police even bother to check that "Collier" looked like "his" (the real Collier's) mug shot? Besides, SPIDER-WOMAN #20-26 supposedly takes place over a period of "a few months" (or "a few weeks" - there are contradicting time references). The idea that the police somehow didn't realize that the "Carson Collier" they were holding was not the same person as the (real) Carson Collier who had previously been imprisoned is just too silly.

As for my explanation, I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor: The most likely explanation is probably the simpliest one. In this situation, we are presented with appearances by a criminal who calls himself the Enforcer and wears a distinctive costume. Out of the six storylines in which the Enforcer appeared, only two revealed who he was behind the mask and those stories contradict each other. I submit that the simpliest explanation is that...the Enforcer was actually TWO DIFFERENT MEN.

If you consider this possibility, things make a lot more sense. Let's look at the Enforcer's appearances in chronological order:

1. GR #21 - The Enforcer's name is mentioned and he steals a device from the Eel but his actions are BTS...so no help there.

2. GR #22 - The first appearances of BOTH the Enforcer and Carson Collier. The Enforcer is shown killing a mob boss in Belaire "even as" Coot Collier confronts an intruder in his Benedict Canon home...only to discover that it's his son, Carson. The next day, Carson visits the Stuntmaster set at Delazney Studios to watch his father direct. While there, he is introduced to Johnny Blaze, who gets a bad feeling about him.

3. GR #23 - Blaze suspects that there's a connection between the Enforcer and studio head Charles L. Delazny. Following up on his hunch, he is later ambushed by the Water Wizard on the grounds of the Delazny estate.

4. GR #24 - To ensure that Charles Delazny continues to cooperate with him, the Enforcer threatens Delazny's family...including his son who is away at college. Later, after defeating the Enforcer, Ghost Rider unmasks him and finds "a college kid" whom he (Blaze) doesn't recognize.

5. GR #26 - Seeking the Ghost Rider, Doctor Druid probes the mind of Charles Delazny and learns that he is upset because "(his) son was secretly a criminal known as the Enforcer, who was captured and imprisoned recently!"

6. SW #19 - While attacking writer Buck Cowan, the Enforcer comes into conflict with both Jack Russell (aka Werewolf by Night) and Spider-Woman. The latter stuns him and leaves him unconscious for the police...without being unmasked. Later, Russell mentions that he recognized the Enforcer from the papers as "a souped-up hood who was recently sprung from the joint."

7. SW #27/28/29 - Newspaper publisher Rupert Dockery goes to prison to meet with Carson Collier, alias the Enforcer, and secretly amkes it possible for him to escape. Dockery's TV station later reports the escape of Carson Collier and quotes his father, Coot Collier. Later, after forcing Spider-Woman to help him, the Enforcer mentions "my old man, Coot Collier."

8. CA #320 - As the Scourge of the Underworld tells Captain America his origin, there are flashbacks of him watching his father direct westerns, of him discovering that his older brother was "a gunman on the wrong side of the law" called the Enforcer, and of him gunning down the Enforcer to make him stop disgracing their family.

Looking at all this information, there are certain observations we can make and conclusions that we can draw. First, the Enforcer who appeared in GR #22-24 was definitely NOT Carson Collier. Not only does he have an alibi for when the Enforcer was killing that mob boss, Ghost Rider didn't recognize his unmasked face despite the fact that Blaze had just recently met Carson. Finally, Druid's mind probe of Charles Delazny revealed that the Enforcer was Delazny's son.

Second, when the Enforcer next appeared (in SPIDER-WOMAN #19), he was never unmasked so we can't KNOW that it's actually the same person wearing the Enforcer costume as before. Sure, Russell mentions that the papers reported that the Enforcer was "recently sprung from the joint" so we assume that it's the same person but that's all it is, an assumption. Furthermore, the Enforcer in this issue is significantly different from "his" previous appearance. In GHOST RIDER, the Enforcer was an agent of a foreign power and a would-be mob boss who used a disintegration weapon and a secret high-tech headquarters in his attempt to control the local criminal underworld but in SPIDER-WOMAN he was just a hired gun and thief who wore a protective body-suit and used machine pistols that fired various specialized ammunition. Also, the dialogue and thought balloons of the SW Enforcer show him to have a cruder, less-educated vocabulary than the GR Enforcer was shown to have.

Finally, the Enforcer who appeared in SPIDER-WOMAN #27-29 is almost certainly who he claimed to be, Carson Collier. The idea that "Collier" was actually Delazny pretending to be the real Collier is ridiculous, as I've explained above. And if we accept that it was CARSON in those issues, then it must also have been Carson who was in SW #19 since it was SW's defeat of him in that issue that made him want to "settle (his) score" with Spider-Woman in SW #27-29.

One thing I want to mention before I get to my conclusion. Aside from its implausible theory that Delazny pretended to be Carson Collier while in jail between SW #19 and 27, the MARVEL HANDBOOK's entry for the Enforcer also contains information about the Collier and Delazny families that I feel is either unsubstantiated or just wrong. First, while it was revealed that both Charles Delazny and Coot Collier had AT LEAST one son each, it was never revealed that either of them had ONLY one son, so the Scourge could have been Carson's younger brother. I like that because it would put Mark Gruenwald's story back "in continuity" again (instead of dismissing it as something that Scourge just made up for unknown reasons).

Second, the given name of Charles L. Delazny's son was never revealed. The idea that his name was "Charles L. Delazny, Jr." comes entirely from the Handbook and its dubiousness is supported by the fact that there are no in-story references to the elder Delazny being "Charles L. Delazny, Sr." Also, the fact that the Marvel Chronology Project lists the Enforcer's real name as just "Delazny" suggests that they don't accept the Handbook's information completely either.

Third, Coot Collier's given name (assuming that it wasn't "Coot") was never revealed. The idea that his real full name was "Carson 'Coot' Collier, Sr." comes entirely from the Handbook, as does the idea that his son Carson's full name was "Carson Collier, Jr." There are no in-story references to either Collier being a "Sr." or a Jr." so that info from the Handbook is dubious.

Finally, here is my history of "the" Enforcer. While it disagrees with the Marvel Handbook's "official" history, mine is consistent with all the in-story information provided during "his" various appearances. It also makes the flashback in CA #320 valid again.

The original Enforcer was the son of movie studio head Charles L. Delazny. While he was supposedly away at college, the younger Delazny became an agent of a foreign power who hired him to perform acts of sabotage in the San Diego Navy yards. Using their money, Delazny created the costumed identity of the Enforcer and hired a scientist to create a disintegaration weapon for himself. The Enforcer took over a local criminal organization, thereby gaining some manpower for his act of sabotage. His plans of building his own criminal empire ended when Ghost Rider defeated him and left him unconscious for the police, who arrested and imprisoned him.

While serving his time in prison, Delazny was "sprung from the joint" by the Committee (note: it was never clear whether he was broken out or freed by some official who was working for the Committee) who wanted either a) him to work for him or b) his disintegration ring. When Delazny refused to work for them or to give them his ring weapon, possibly breaking an earlier promise to do so, the Committee had him eliminated but kept his death a secret. Looking for a suitable replacement, they found Carson Collier, one of the sons of movie director Coot Collier and someone with a history of criminal behavior going back to when he shook down school kids for their lunch money. They outfitted him with specially modified automatic pistols and ammunition and gave him Delazny's distinctive Enforcer costume. Aside from protecting him and hiding his face, wearing that costume would conceal his identity because witnesses and the police would assume that it was the "sprung" Delazny who was wearing his old costume. However, after a few missions for the Committee, Collier's deception was exposed after Spider-Woman stunned him and left him for the police to arrest and unmask, thereby revealing that he was not the younger Delazny. It was sometime later that Carson, while on his way to commit a murder as the Enforcer, was gunned down by a bag lady who was actually his younger brother in disguise.

If my theory is correct (and accepted by the MCP), the revised chronologies for the Enforcers (plural) should read as follows:

ENFORCER/DELAZNY
GR2 21-BTS
GR2 22
GR2 23
GR2 24


ENFORCER II/CARSON COLLIER
GR2 22
CA 320-FB
S-W 19
S-W 27
S-W 28
S-W 29
GR2 58
S-W 50
IM 194

The flashback in CA #320, in which Carson's younger brother discovers him putting on (or taking off?) his Enforcer costume, apparently takes place before their father learned of Carson's career as a costumed criminal. Since Coot would presumably have found out the truth after Carson was arrested by the police in S-W #19, Carson's brother's earlier discovery must have preceded events in S-W #19.

By the way, the Enforcer who appeared in S-W #30 was actually Spider-Woman wearing his costume to trick a confession out of publisher Rupert Dockery. The real Enforcer doesn't appear in that issue at all.


Don Campbell 

			*	*	*

MARTHA CONNORS...COLE COOPER...CYBOR
Posted by Arthur Stein on February 13, 2004 at 10:45:22:

new entries marked **


CONNORS, MARTHA

WOSM 111
**VSS 1/3
PPTSSSS 1/3


COOPER, COLE

WOSM 115
WOSM 116
ASMU 9
**S-MSS 1/3


CYBOR

H2 137-FB
H2 137-FB-BTS
H2 136-BTS
H2 137
**H2 306-FB (15p4)
**H2 306
**H2 307

Additionally re H2 306 and H2 307
. . .KLAATU
. . .H2 137-FB
. . .H2 136
. . .H2 137
. . .**H2 306-FB (15p2-15p3)
. . .**H2 306
. . .**H2 307

. . .XERON 
. . .H2 137-FB-BTS
. . .H2 136
. . .H2 137
. . .**H2 306-FB (15p3-15p4)
. . .**H2 306
. . .**H2 307



Note to newcomers. Just to explain what my postings areas an avid Marvelist I had my own version of this Marvel Chronology Project (MCP). I am now comparing the two, and for all character entries in the MCP, I am checking if I have any appearances that may have been overlooked. Validating them. Chronologizing them. Posting them (so others have an opportunity to refute or comment). The aim... to help in the completeness of this magnificent piece of information engineering! 



#156

			*	*	*

Captain America Canon
Posted by Jean Duteau on February 14, 2004 at 03:46:00:

Hi guys,

I'm starting to read Captain America in chronological order and there are two things that I have questions about. 

1) I notice that the Adventures of Captain America : Sentinel of Liberty 4-issue Limited Series is in the non-canon list. I was just wondering why as what I've read of it seems a good story and I haven't found anything that directly contradicts anything I know about Cap.

2) TOS 63-65 are nowhere to be found in the chronology. Actually, TOS 63-FB is listed as taking place during TOS 71, but otherwise they're not listed. Why?

Thanks in advance,

Jean

			*	*	*

Re: Captain America Canon
Posted by Peter Fabricius on February 14, 2004 at 14:47:56:

In Reply to: Captain America Canon posted by Jean Duteau on February 14, 2004 at 03:46:00:

> Hi guys,

> I'm starting to read Captain America in chronological order and there are two things that I have questions about. 

> 1) I notice that the Adventures of Captain America : Sentinel of Liberty 4-issue Limited Series is in the non-canon list. I was just wondering why as what I've read of it seems a good story and I haven't found anything that directly contradicts anything I know about Cap.

> 2) TOS 63-65 are nowhere to be found in the chronology. Actually, TOS 63-FB is listed as taking place during TOS 71, but otherwise they're not listed. Why?

> Thanks in advance,

> Jean

Re. 1) It conflicts with the first meeting between Cap and the Skull, as told in Captain America Comics #1 from 1941.
In the original Cap first meets the Red Skull in the USA, this is not however, the 'true' Skull, but a double.

Re. 2) TOS 63-65 is a retelling of Captain America Comics #1, stories 1, 2 and 4.

			*	*	*

Zombie
Posted by Scott Hutchins on February 14, 2004 at 15:09:56:

Tales of the Zombie went for ten issues. The story in Menace 5 was reprinted in TOTZ 1, but it isn't specified where it came from, it just says it's from an old Atlas horror comic and was by Bill Everett.

ZOMBIE/SIMON GARTH
TOTZ 2-FB
TOTZ 1-FB
TOTZ 1
MENACE 5
TOTZ 1/6
TOTZ 2
TOTZ 2/6
DL 2/5
TOTZ 3
TOTZ 4
TOTZ 4/6
TOTZ 5
TOTZ 6
TOTZ 7
TOTZ 8
TOTZ 9
BIZADV 33
DD@ 9/3
ASMU 20
ST5 1/3

			*	*	*

Re: Zombie
Posted by Administrator on February 14, 2004 at 17:59:52:
In Reply to: Zombie 
posted by Scott Hutchins on February 14, 2004 at 15:09:56:

> Tales of the Zombie went for ten issues. The story in Menace 5 was reprinted in TOTZ 1, but it isn't specified where it came from, it just says it's from an old Atlas horror comic and was by Bill Everett.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying that the reprint is *not* from Menace #5?

			*	*	*

Fantastic Four and 4
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 22:02:58:

We have two recent references to Franklin Richards' birthday -- one in FF 505 (in which the birthday is approaching -- Sue doesn't want to be in Latveria still when that day arrives) and one in this week's 4 #1 (in which his birthday is celebrated).

I theorize that 4 #1 occurs one year before FF 505 for a number of reasons. (Yes, despite the fact that 4 #1 is published AFTER FF 505. Egad.)

Here are my notes for pages 1-6 of 4 #1:
A Saturday (which I place on August 24). It is Franklins 8th birthday, so it must be the same day of the year as FF @6, which was established in OMITFF 5 as occurring in late August. Naturally, Franklin must be quite a bit older than eight, but the age clue does place this story after FF3 60, in which he is noted as being seven. Franklins next birthday (supposedly his ninth) is noted as approaching in FF 505, which occurs after the disfiguring of Reeds face (Reeds face is fine in this story). Cap and She-Hulk appear at Franklins party - this must be the earliest appearance of the costume She-Hulk wears from A3 65 on; she is seen again in her old costume only on one panel after this point, in A3 63 (which occurs after the Christmas of IM3 63). The FF are told that their money manager embezzled their funds, left them broke, and fled the country; this is a clue that this story occurs before Sue decides to make Johnny the financial manager of FF Inc. in FF3 61. The FF now have to find jobs or declare bankruptcy. Johnny has a girlfriend named Kourtney, and Valeria appears here at an age I figure to be nearly six months (and she is seen sitting up in a high chair in this issue).

Given the references to Franklin's age/birthday and the financial manager angle, the story in 4 should be placed squarely between FF3 60 and 61.

In the rest of 4 #1, the FF find jobs to avoid bankruptcy and the mayor evicts the FF from the Baxter Building. This is on a day that Franklin has school, which I posit is the first day of a new school year (on Monday, August 26). I'm assuming that everything will turn out okay for the FF in short order -- their fortune and residence restored. Those assets will be frozen and the FF will be in dire financial straits again following the FF's occupation of Latveria a year later.

So, a chronology of FF stories would look like this:
FF3 60
The current story in "4"
FF3 61-66
HT 2-12
FF3 67-70
FF 500-510 (current story)

Of course, this is another "wait and see" matter, as who knows what Roberto Aguire-Sacasa will do with the plotline in "4" or how closely he'll try to ensure continuity with the flagship title.

--Paul B.

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Re: Fantastic Four and 4
Posted by Dimadick on February 15, 2004 at 03:22:01:
In Reply to: Fantastic Four and 4 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 22:02:58:

> Naturally, Franklin must be quite a bit older than eight, but the age clue does place this story after FF3 60, in which he is noted as being seven.

What about the other age references in 4 #1? Susan mentions that "I was twenty years old when I flew into the cosmic storm that gave us our powers" and then that "this just isn't how I imagined I'd be facing my thirties". Alicia then comments that "I never imagined I'd be thirty". This would imply that the Fantastic Four are only in the second decade of their careers. Does this seem accurate?

The FF are told that their money manager embezzled their funds, left them broke, and fled the country.

Actualy not only their funds. Terry Giocometti suppossedly swindled a number of other clients. Osborn Corporation and Stark Industries are the other two mentioned. Any idea where this should fit in Norman's and Tony's chronologies? 

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Re: Fantastic Four and 4
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 15, 2004 at 03:50:19:
In Reply to: Re: Fantastic Four and 4 
posted by Dimadick on February 15, 2004 at 03:22:01:

> Actualy not only their funds. Terry Giocometti suppossedly swindled a number of other clients. Osborn Corporation and Stark Industries are the other two mentioned.

No, those companies are mentioned as also suffering from the cutbacks in federal government funding. 

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Re: Fantastic Four and 4
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 15, 2004 at 03:53:24:
In Reply to: Re: Fantastic Four and 4 
posted by Paul O'Brien on February 15, 2004 at 03:50:19:

> No, those companies are mentioned as also suffering from the cutbacks in federal government funding.

Hold on, you're right - apparently the FF's business staff has disappeared and been replaced by an outside accountant who's working for several other companies at the same time. Hmm.

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Re: Fantastic Four and 4
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 15, 2004 at 10:13:51:
In Reply to: Re: Fantastic Four and 4 
posted by Dimadick on February 15, 2004 at 03:22:01:

> > Naturally, Franklin must be quite a bit older than eight, but the age clue does place this story after FF3 60, in which he is noted as being seven.

> What about the other age references in 4 #1? Susan mentions that "I was twenty years old when I flew into the cosmic storm that gave us our powers" and then that "this just isn't how I imagined I'd be facing my thirties". Alicia then comments that "I never imagined I'd be thirty". This would imply that the Fantastic Four are only in the second decade of their careers. Does this seem accurate?

No, it doesn't. If Sue was twenty at the time of FF 1, then she must be in her early forties at this point. The number of years since FF 1 has been a point of discussion in the past; I think the general consensus is that more time must have passed than the folks at Marvel like to admit. Thus you'll find age references in Marvel comics that are usually younger than actual.


> The FF are told that their money manager embezzled their funds, left them broke, and fled the country.

> Actualy not only their funds. Terry Giocometti suppossedly swindled a number of other clients. Osborn Corporation and Stark Industries are the other two mentioned. Any idea where this should fit in Norman's and Tony's chronologies?

This would fit in the large gap of time between A3 62 (July) and IM3 59 (November). So this chronology should be okay from Stark's perspective...assuming of course that everyone involved gets his financial resources back in a future issue of "4."

From Antonio's Spidey chronology, there don't appear to be any conflicts with Norman Osborn's chronology.

--Paul B.

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Re: Fantastic Four and 4
Posted by Dimadick on February 15, 2004 at 11:42:55:
In Reply to: Re: Fantastic Four and 4 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 15, 2004 at 10:13:51:


> > Actualy not only their funds. Terry Giocometti suppossedly swindled a number of other clients. Osborn Corporation and Stark Industries are the other two mentioned. Any idea where this should fit in Norman's and Tony's chronologies?

> This would fit in the large gap of time between A3 62 (July) and IM3 59 (November). So this chronology should be okay from Stark's perspective...assuming of course that everyone involved gets his financial resources back in a future issue of "4."

Actually this doesn't seem necessary. The issue states that the two other clients have reported mysterious losses but "none so devastating" as that of the Fantastic Four. Persumably their losses were not enough to have them bankrupt. 

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Re: Fantastic Four and 4
Posted by Paul Bourcier on February 15, 2004 at 16:23:34:
In Reply to: Re: Fantastic Four and 4 
posted by Dimadick on February 15, 2004 at 11:42:55:

> 
> > > Actualy not only their funds. Terry Giocometti suppossedly swindled a number of other clients. Osborn Corporation and Stark Industries are the other two mentioned. Any idea where this should fit in Norman's and Tony's chronologies?

> > This would fit in the large gap of time between A3 62 (July) and IM3 59 (November). So this chronology should be okay from Stark's perspective...assuming of course that everyone involved gets his financial resources back in a future issue of "4."

> Actually this doesn't seem necessary. The issue states that the two other clients have reported mysterious losses but "none so devastating" as that of the Fantastic Four. Persumably their losses were not enough to have them bankrupt.

It may not be necessary, but we can assume that this is something with which Stark and Osborn had to deal, and it's good to know this business concern doesn't conflict with published scenes of their lives.

--Paul B.

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Re: Fantastic Four and 4
Posted by Paul O'Brien on February 15, 2004 at 03:49:16:
In Reply to: Fantastic Four and 4 
posted by Paul Bourcier on February 14, 2004 at 22:02:58:

> Of course, this is another "wait and see" matter, as who knows what Roberto Aguire-Sacasa will do with the plotline in "4" or how closely he'll try to ensure continuity with the flagship title.

Bear in mind that this storyline was originally intended to appear in FANTASTIC FOUR itself, until Waid's sacking was reversed after Jemas left. Both Waid and Aguire-Sacasa are trying to fulfil the same editorial remit ("the FF lose all their money and have to live in the real world"). It's not really Aguire-Sacasa's fault - he seems to have written this story on the assumption that Waid would simply tie up his storylines and leave, meaning that he had to come up with an alternative mechanism for removing their fortune.

Why on earth Marvel has allowed both titles to pursue essentially the exact same story at the exact same time is beyond me.

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Nick Fury canon?
Posted by Jean Duteau on February 15, 2004 at 22:56:55:

I was looking at the Nick Fury chronology and noticed that there are only four Sgt. Fury issues there. Are these the only issues that are considered canon?



