	Marvel Universe Forum
1. Watoomb in DSTR2 34-FB
2. Moira MacTaggert in X 2-FB
3. Tomazoom corrections
4. ANOTHER question.
5. Stick in Wolverine#113-confirmed anywhere?
6. Hate-Monger correction; HTD 14 not the Hate-Monger
7. Dargo Ktor; two of them?
8. John Kowalski in Solo Avengers...
9. Missing Flash
10. Coldsteel Note; A couple of missed Stalin appearances
11. Captain America notes; S-Woman#42
12. Death in DPOOL '98-FB
13. Conan
14. Doctor Strange knowing Peter Parker's identity
15. Timeline
16. Warnings in an entry? Jean Grey
17. Counter-Earth Question; when created?
18. Immortus/Living Tribunal in WI 32; cameo
19. Powerless
20. Havok
21. X-Men character corrections
22. Error in Death sequence
23. Nick Fury error
24. Mister Hyde
25. Marvel characters in the Ultraverse
26. Gort
27. IRON MAN #51-100
28. FF, Black Widow, and DD in MARVEL TREASURY EDITION #25
29. magneto
30. What's coming from Marvel in October...
31. Question about FF in Year 1 calendar
32. odd Zola, Red Skull.....
33. Squadron Supreme miniseries
34. Taskmaster Chronology........ corrections and additions.....
35. Scarlet Centurion; different one
36. Wendigo Matters
37. W2 102.5
38. Captain America: What Price Glory
39. Arishem the Judge in Doctor Strange II#26/2

	Ultimate Universe Forum
40. Ultimate Marvel Universe Chronology version 1.5

	Issue Analysis Forum
41. Runaways #1-10
42. X-Men Collector's Edition#2 and X-Men Premium Edition#1
43. Wolverine v3 #7-11
44. Thanos #1-6
45. Thanos #7-12

	Bug Reports Forum
46. Captain Marvel
47. Taskmaster entry has bad/old link....
48. Bracket missing - Dazzler II first app.

	Chat Forum
49. Marvel Super Heroes Gamebook help requested
50. Updates?
51. What is Killraven?
52. Favorite Retelling Back-Ups with new info
53. Werewolf By Night Question
54. What is The Foreigner's nationality?
55. Age of the Apocolypse
56. Wolverine: SNIKT
57. Wizard 1/2 comics



Thread 1

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:14 pm    Post subject: Watoomb in DSTR2 34-FB
By Enda80

WATOOMB 
**DRSTR2 34-FB 
DRSTR3 49 

On page 15 of Doctor Strange II#32, the origin of the Wand of Watoomb is revealed. Doctor Strange and Cyrus Black were given the wand when Watoomb retired from mystical affairs and wished to pass it on to a deserving adept.

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Thread 2

Posted: 02 Jul 2004 06:45 pm    Post subject: Moira MacTaggert in X 2-FB
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Moira's listing currently reads:- 

... 
UX 300-FB 
X 2-FB 
X 2-FB 
X:HY 10 
UX 94-BTS 
... 

The flashbacks in X 2 show the infant Magneto being delivered into Moira's care (after having been regressed to infancy by Alpha the Ultimate Mutant), and Moira carrying out some experiments on him. 

X-MEN: THE HIDDEN YEARS #10 - like the whole of that series - takes place at the beginning of the X-Men's reprint phase, before the Beast left the team. Magneto was regressed to infancy in DEFENDERS #16, which is right at the end of the reprint phase. Accordingly, X 2-FB must follow X: HY 10. 

So the correct sequence would be:- 

UX 300-FB 
X:HY 10 
X 2-FB 
X 2-FB 
UX 94-BTS
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Thread 3

Posted: 03 Jul 2004 08:20 pm    Post subject: Tomazoom corrections
By Enda80

TOMAZOOMA 
T 300-FB 
{FF 80} 

The real Tomazooma makes a brief cameo in that FF issue. Also, Thor 300 is a fb to the year 1000 CE.

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Thread 4

Posted: 02 Jul 2004 11:01 am    Post subject: ANOTHER question.
By Marvel Jedi

at the end of The Hood 1 there is a 3 page promo for the Call of duty and it says it's continued in Howard The Duck 5, Blade 3, Cage 3, and Wolverine 176. Howard the Duck 5 is canon because it's the same as thew previous volume (more vulgar) but no reference to the call of duty. 
plus cage and blade are not canon (I see no problems with blad his origin is a bit tweaked thats all. ) please help.
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 03 Jul 2004 10:05 am    
By SKleefeld [DIRECTOR]

The reference isn't a notation of a crossover. It doesn't continue in the main story of HtD 5, for example, but as a second story at the back of the issue. Any individual book can contain multiple stories, some of which may be canon and some of which may not. 

So just because the Call of Duty backup that appears in Cage #3 is canon does not necessarily mean the main story in Cage #3 is canon.

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Jul 2004 10:33 pm    
By SeanCurtin

...does this mean that Logan's Run isn't the canonical future of the Marvel Universe? 

Although if it was, that would Marvel give an excuse to have not aged Peter Parker since he graduated from college. 

-Sean

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Posted: 04 Jul 2004 03:01 pm    Post subject: Stick in Wolverine#113-confirmed anywhere?
By Enda80

I thought I would bring this up to Robert Byrd for his Wolverien chronology, but I am wondering......has any other story had Stick bring this up?

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Thread 6

Posted: 05 Jul 2004 06:51 pm    Post subject: Hate-Monger correction; HTD 14 not the Hate-Monger
By Enda80

HTD 14 (Howard the Duck 14) was not the Hate-Monger. 

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/drreich.htm 

The man who would become known as Dr. Reich served as the dentist to Adolph Hitler. When Hitler died, it was this man who identified Hitler's body in its burned out bunker by his dentures. So obsessed was this man by his Fuhrer that he removed his own teeth and replaced them with Hitler's dentures. After some time, he came to believe himself to actually be Hitler.

			*	*	*

Thread 7

Posted: 04 Jul 2004 03:49 pm    Post subject: Dargo Ktor; two of them?
By Enda80

A while ago, Don Campbell and Stakar Karnak had an argument as to whether or not the Amazing Adventures Killraven and the Killraven who is part of the Guardians of the Galaxy timeline represent the same entities or alternate counterparts of each other. During this exchange, the following was written: 

" - SK, waiting for someone to claim there's also another Dargo... 

Funny you should mention that...but I need sleep so that will have to wait for another time. 

Don Campbell" 
...................................................................................................... 
Mr. Campbell did not follow up, but I think I can guess what he had in mind. 

First of all, the presence of Dargo Ktor in the Guardians of the Galaxy timeline is assured by the flashback in Guardians of the Galaxy#24 related by the Keeper. So a counterpart of Dargo Ktor exists in the GOTG timeline. 

But.....well, something strange happened in Thor I#438-439. 
Zarrko the Tommorrow Man tricked Dargo into battling Eric Masterson (who served as Thor at the time). Meanwhile, Zarrko revealed that he intended to to siphon off the energy used by their hammers to power his Radical Time Stabilizer. 
Beta Ray Bill detected the battle of the Mjolnirs and arrived to intervene. Upon seeing Beta Ray Bill, Dargo remembered and recognized him from legend. 
Dargo recognized Beta Ray Bill from legend. This indicates that in Dargo Ktor's timeline, Beta Ray Bill had served as a Thor-figure. However, in the mainstream timeline, Beta Ray Bill was transformed into a Thor figure in a timeframe *after* Earth-GOTG diverged from the mainstream Earth.* 
Possibly Mr. Campbell thought of this when suggesting there was more than one Dargo Ktor. 

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/thordargoktor.htm 

*Many people will tell you that the divergence occured around MTIO#69 when Vance Astro meets his younger Earth-616 counterpart. However, The Handbook entry for Vance Astro in #12 (original volume) notes that on Earth-GOTG, Reed Richards never told the U.S. government about his experimental starship.

Last edited by Enda80 on 05 Jul 2004 05:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 05 Jul 2004 04:23 pm    Post subject: Dargo & Beta Ray
By StAkAr Karnak

Quote: 
>>>
Dargo recognized Beta Ray Bill from legend. This indicates that in Dargo Ktor's timeline, Beta Ray Bill had served as a Thor-figure. However, in the mainstream timeline, Beta Ray Bill was transformed into a Thor figure in a timeframe *after* Earth-GOTG diverged from the mainstream Earth. 
<<<


What prevents Dargo's timeline from having a Beta Ray counterpart? 

Quote: 
>>>
Many people will tell you that the divergence occured around MTIO#69 when Vance Astro meets his younger Earth-616 counterpart. However, The Handbook entry for Vance Astro in #12 (original volume) notes that on Earth-GOTG, Reed Richards never told the U.S. government about his experimental starship. 
<<<


The jury's still out on this one. 

- SK

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Posted: 06 Jul 2004 03:10 pm    Post subject: Dargo Ktor - two of them
By DonCampbell

Actually, THIS is what I had in mind when I suggested that there was "another Dargo Ktor." 

There's a chance I'm totally wrong about this but I don't think that the Dargo from the flashback in Guardians of the Galaxy #24 is the same Dargo who appeared in all the other issues listed. Instead, I think that the two Dargos are dimensional counterparts of each other, existing in separate timelines. Here are my reasons: 

First, the history of the GotG timeline seems to be somewhat inconsistent with what we know about Dargo's timeline. In the GotG timeline, Earth was conquered in 2001 by "Martians" who occupied the planet until 2075. Most of the next 500 years was a barbaric period in which humanity lived in feudal city-states ruled by Techno-Barons. Following a revolution by the oppressed serfs (and the execution of the last Techno-Baron in 2525), communications between the city-states were restored and by 2530 a second World Federation was established. From then on, humans oncentrated on exploring and colonizing their solar system. 

Contrast this with the few facts we know about Dargo's timeline. In Dargos late 26th century, the Age of Governments had ended and been replaced by the Age of Corporations. Reacting to the (unexplained) absence of corrupt politicians and bureaucracies, big business had taken over the running of the world. And while its never specifically stated how long the corps had been ruling, the story in THOR #384 gives the impression that it had been a long time. I suppose that its possible that both these descriptions could refer to the same timeline. The Age of Governments could be the same as the Reign of the Techno-Barons...but I doubt it. 

Second, the history of Thor in Dargos timeline is seemingly different from that of the Thor in the GotG timeline. In Dargos timeline, centuries before the year 2587, Thor was somehow separated from his mystic hammer and then trapped in an unspecified extra-dimensional location. A few hundred years before 2587, someone unearthed the hammer and, over time, a cult arose that worshipped Thor and believed that he would return to free them from the Corporation. During those centuries, Loki and Tyrus had desperately sought the hammer, trying to prevent it from ever returning to Thor because he could use it to free himself. Thats pretty much all we know about the Thor from Dargos timeline. 

Contrast this with the life led by the Thor of the GotG timeline. Thor fought against the alien invaders during the War of the Worlds until he was convinced to leave. Returning to Asgard, Thor and Sif were soon married. Thor began taking long journeys to faraway lands and continued to do so even after the birth of their son, Woden. The absence of his father caused Woden, as he grew to adolescence, to become a brooding bully. Eventually, Sif was forced to ask Odin for help. Enraged by his sons parental neglect, Odin ordered Thor home to tend to his family. Thor spent months teaching Woden but he came to resent his forcibly-imposed domesticity and began spending more and more time in the mead hall. This outraged Woden, who left home. When an angry and frustrated Sif blamed Thor, he dared raise his hand to strike her but it was he who received a scar for that attempt. It was sometime after that incident that Thor stumbled through Asgards town square, dropped his hammer and was shocked to discover that he could no longer pick it up. Mjolnir was left lying where it fell until Woden picked it up in 3019. Its possible that there isnt any inconsistency here. Thor could have married Sif, become trapped for centuries, and then returned to Asgard and fathered Woden before deteriorating into a drunkard. After all, by the time the events in GotG #42 occurred, Thor and Sif must have been married for over one thousand years...so maybe she just forgot to mention that her husband was MISSING FOR CENTURIES? Sorry, I dont buy that. It seems far more likely that, in the GotG timeline, the circumstances under which Thor was separated from his hammer (and the length of that separation) were probably much different than in Dargos timeline. The main similarity may have been that the GotG Dargo found the hammer when he needed it and, proving to be worthy of wielding Mjolnir, was also transformed into the once and future Thor. 

To my mind, either of these inconsistencies could be overlooked but not both. It is for that reason that I believe that the Dargo/Thor in GotG #24 (fb) should be considered a different being than the Dargo/Thor who appeared in various issues of THOR and someone whose origin may be quite different from that depicted in THOR #384. 

Finally, anyone who might disagree with my theory would probably point to the Korvac Quest storyline as proving that only one Dargo has been seen so far. They would argue that all the manifestations of Korvacs consciousness in the bodies of his ancestors (Jaboa Murphy, Varley, Marshach, Jordan Korvac) took place in the GotG timeline but I would dispute that. While its true that Part 4 (in which Korvac inhabited his father's body) and Part 3 (in which the Guardians battled the same Silver Surfer whom they would later encounter in GotG #24-25) both must occur in the GotG timeline, theres nothing that says that Part 2 (in which the Guardians met the Dargo from THOR must also be part of that timeline. In fact, Part 1 takes place in the mainstream timeline at a point AFTER the GotG timeline diverged from it. This proves that Korvacs consciousness was capable of jumping between timelines as it traveled into the future. The humans whose bodies Korvacs consciousness inhabited didnt have to be his direct ancestors in his timeline, they just had to have a genetic code inherited from ancestors they shared with Korvac. Since Jaboa Murphy from the mainstream timeline was definitely NOT from the GotG timeline, theres no reason to assume that the Varley and the Dargo from THOR Annual #16 had to be part of the GotG timeline. This would mean that the Dargo who once battled the Silver Surfer in the GotG timeline does not have to be the same Dargo who met the Guardians in THOR Annual #16 (although they probably think he is). 

Don Campbell

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Thread 8

Posted: 30 Jun 2004 10:25 am    Post subject: John Kowalski in Solo Avengers...
By Enda80

He was in Solo Avengers#5/2. 

KOWALSKI, JOHN 
WIH 9 
WIH 10 
WIH 11 
WIH 12 
WIH 13 
WIH 14 
WIH 15 
M-T 10 
M-T 11 
**SOLOA 5/2 

Come to think of it, Death was also in that issue. 

Speaking of Death, do you consider poems as canonical stories? I ask because Savage Sword of Conan#8 featured a story called "The Death Song of Conan the Cimmerian" which told of Conan's being taken by Death (presumably at some point after Conan the Savage#10). Since the Kull chronology in Conan Saga#97 included the poem featuring Kull from CTB I#10, and the Solomon Kane chronology in SSOC#219 included the poem "Solomon Kane's Homecoming", I thought it could count. 

By the way, Death made a more conventional appearance in Kull III#2 (or so) and in the Kull: Vale of the Shadow graphic novel. If and when those become available to me, I will post an analysis of each.

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Posted: 30 Jun 2004 10:48 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Death is a really broad concept, especially when comparing Conan's universe to the later day Marvel Universe. I take it you are referring to Death, the character, the skull faced lady whom Thanos fell in love with. 

Did Savage Sword of Conan #8, (or any of those issues you mentioned) show SPECIFICALLY that version of Death? If so, then...as far as "Death" the character appearing in that poem, I'd feel more comfortable if you'd provide us with chronology reviews for these 'poems', to see if they are actual stories, or some sort of broad generalization...
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

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Posted: 01 Jul 2004 05:20 am    Post subject: Kull stories were not poems
By Enda80

The Kull stories were not poems, but conventionally told stories with the cosmic embodiment of Death appearing.

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Posted: 02 Jul 2004 12:52 am    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Well, then, yes: I supposed we'd need to see a chronology review for those Kull issues, but yes, we'd probably add them to Death's chronology. 

I'd still be wary before adding a poem about death to the chronology for 'Death the character'....
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 Jul 2004 08:51 am    Post subject: Death Song of Conan the Cimmerian
By Enda80

The poem recounts how Conan recalls his past life before dying. No recognizable characters appear in the flashbacks. In the end, of course, Conan does die. 

http://www.comicboards.com/mub/view.php?rpl=040702134721 

shows some images from the poem 

http://www.comicboards.com/mub/view.php?trd=040702134406 

From Savage Sword of Conan#8 

"The road was long and the road was hard 
and the sky was cold and grey 
the dead white moon was a frozen shard 
in the dim pale dawn of day 
but thief and harlot, king and guard 
warrior, wizard, knave and bard 
rode with me all the way 

The wind was sharp as a whetted knife 
as it blew from the west salt seas 
the storm wind stirred to a ghostly life 
the gaunt black skeletal trees 

but I drank the foaming wine of life 
wine of plunder and lust and strife 
down to the bitter lees. 

A boy from the savage north I came 
to the cities of silk and sin. 
With torch and steel, in blood and flame, I won what a man may win 
Aye, gambled and won at the Devil's game 
splendor and glory and glittering flame 
and mocked at Death's skull-grin. 

And there were foemen to fight and slay 
and friends to love and trust 
and crowns to conquer and toss away 
and lips to taste with lust. 

And songs to keep black night at bay 
and wine to swill till the break of day 
what matter the end be dust? 

I've won my share of your gems and gold. 
They crumble into clods 
I've gorged on the best that life can hold 
and Devil take the odds. 
The grave is deep and the nights is cold 
the world's a skull-full of sinking mould... 
and I will laugh at your little gods. 

The lean road slunk through a blasted land 
where the Earth was parched and black. 
But we were a merry, jesting band 
who asked no easier track 

Rogue and Reaver and firebrand 
and life rode laughing at my right hand 
and death rode at my back 

The rode was dusty and harsh and long 
Crom but a man gets dry 
I'm old and weary and Death is strong 
but flesh was born to die 

Hai gods! But it was a merry throng 
Rode by my side with jest and song 
under an empty sky. 

I've heard fat, cunning priestlings tell how damned souls writhe and moan 
That paradise they can buy and sell for gold and gold alone. 
To the flames with scripture and priests as well 
I'll stride down the scarlet throat of hell- 
and dice for the devil's throne! 

I faced life boldy and unafraid 
Should I flinch as Death draws near? 
Life's but a game Death and I have played 
Many a wearisome year: 
Hai! To the gallant friends I made 
slave and swordsman and lissome maid 
I begrudge no foot of the road I strayed 
The road which endeth...here! 

Chronology notes; the chronologically latest story of the great Cimmerian's first life was in Conan the Savage#10. A story in Savage Sword of Conan#6 shows that at some point in the 1970's or the modern era, he will be reincarnated as man named O'Brien.

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Posted: 02 Jul 2004 10:13 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
A story in Savage Sword of Conan#6 shows that at some point in the 1970's or the modern era, he will be reincarnated as man named O'Brien. 
<<<


Huh. 

I was born in 1975.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 03 Jul 2004 08:26 pm    
By Enda80

Actually, the story took place in either the 1970's (year of publication) or the moderna, but O'Brien was born twenty years at least before. 

We can reasonaly presume that Conan died during the Hyborian Age. (Conan Saga#95 gives a rundown on his later life, including planned but unpublished stories.) 

If and when I get those Kull issues, they will precede this appearance. 

DEATH 

DPOOL '98-FB 
**SSOC 8/2 
{WIH 13} 
WIH 14 
WIH 15 
CM 27

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Posted: 06 Jul 2004 11:38 pm
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
Huh. 

I was born in 1975. 
<<<


LOL. I actual have read that story that Enda is referring to. Use to own that issue. I don't know if we can go so far as to count that as a true addition that needs added to Conan's chronology... 

And, Enda, I've looked over the links to the images, and I have to say, that appears to be a more broad and general version of "Death", and not the version that Thanos fell in love with, (which is the version I believe the MCP has a listing for). 

Here's how you tell the difference, (and this is going to sound wierd, but oh well): If the version of Death has breasts, (even when sporting the skeletal face, not the woman face) it's "Death" the character...if it doesn't have breasts, then it's just a usual broadstroke representation of Death/Grim Reaper/etc. 

At least, I think that's how we've distinguished it thus far...
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 12:37 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

We at the MCP are *always* vigilant about boobies. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 01:03 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Yes. Scholarly work, don't you know? 

Tah Tah for now. 


watching: oven fresh

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Thread 9

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 01:19 pm    Post subject: Missing Flash
By captamr

Flash Thompson is present in the epilogue to ASM 284: 

THOMPSON, EUGENE FLASH 

ASM 283 
** ASM 284 
ASM 288
_________________
Charlie

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Thread 10

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 03:22 pm    Post subject: Coldsteel Note; A couple of missed Stalin appearances
By Enda80

COLDSTEEL/JOSEF DJUGASHVILI/"JOSEF STALIN" 
**HUMAN TORCH 5 
INV 32 
INV 33 
**CA@ 13-FB 
**N@ 1/2 
AWC 98 
AWC 99 
AWC 100 

I found a list of other Stalin appearances, but Sgt. Fury#51 is sort of a gap book, and other are odd Golden Age books. Still, hope this helps. 

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/coldstee.htm

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Thread 11

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 03:42 pm    Post subject: Captain America notes; S-Woman#42
By Enda80

From what I hear of that Ice storyline, Austen bungled Cap's origin. Apparently he had never read Saga of the Sub-Mariner, in which Namor recalls his freeing of Cap. 

Also, S-Woman#42 has a Captain America/Howlers/Red Skull flashback that I cannot place. 

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/judasman.htm 

(Spider-Woman I#42 (fb))- Michael Kramer was a member of an all black American Air Force Fighter Squadron in the winter of 1944. Shot down over Germany, he was taken prisoner by the Nazis and sent to a concentration camp, but before reaching his assigned stalag, he and seventy other men and women were seized and taken by the Red Skull for his experiments in biochemical welfare. Kramer became the Red Skulls first success in creating a plague carrier, a person immune to the disease he carried but would later transfer to others. He nicknamed Kramer "The Judas Man," but before he could recreate the experiment, Captain America, Nick Fury and the Howling Commandos destroyed the lab and liberated the survivors. Kramer was reported as killed in the raid.

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Thread 12

Posted: 03 Jul 2004 10:56 pm    Post subject: Death in DPOOL '98-FB
By SeanCurtin

This should be moved from the beginning of her chronology to between KS and CX 43/2. 

-Sean

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Posted: 03 Jul 2004 11:49 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Why specifically there? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 05 Jul 2004 11:24 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Death appears in the flashback to Deadpool's time with Weapon X; Guardian also appears, by that name, in one panel. 

-Sean

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Posted: 06 Jul 2004 05:57 am    Post subject: So, to revise Death's chronology........
By Enda80

DEATH 

**SSOC 8/2 
{WIH 13} 
WIH 14 
WIH 15 
CM 27 
KS 
**DPOOL '98-FB 
CX 43/2 

Also, for Death's Solo Avengers#5 appearance;

			*	*	*

Hmm ... that's about the timeframe of the Dark Phoenix Saga, isn't it ... I suppose that's as good a place as any. I can never keep track of Guardian's name changes, though ... he started out as Weapon Alpha in UX #109, but what did he become later, and when? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 06 Jul 2004 09:09 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Hudson was introduced as Weapon Alpha in UX 109, as Vindicator I in UX 120, and as Guardian I in AF 2.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 06 Jul 2004 10:38 pm
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

And AF #2 post-dates UX #140 ... so Death's appearance in DPOOL @'98-FB should actually go just *after* CX #43/2 (which immediately follows UX #137), not before. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 04:32 pm    
By SeanCurtin 

Good point... so Guardian's appearance in DPOOL '98-FB should also be moved to after AF 2. I think the next usable gap in his chronology at that point is between AF 4 and X&AF2 1. 

-Sean

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Thread 13

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 11:52 am    Post subject: Conan
By Marvel Jedi

Are the marvel comics conan comics canon? 
Like are the ones in the essential canon?
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 03:47 pm    Post subject: Conan is canonical
By Enda80

This came up a while ago. So, I have decided to post a list of twenty 
proofs that Conan, Kull, Red Sonja, and Solomon Kane are part of the 
history of the Marvel Universe. 

1. Kull appears in a flashback in Tomb of Dracula I#26 
2. Kull appears in a flashback in Doctor Strange III#11/2-as does 
Thulsa Doom, Morophla, Uathact, Red Sonja, and Conan 
3. Valka, a Thurian god from the Kull stories, is mentioned in 
Fear#15. 
4. Valka is mentioned in Doctor Strange III#33/2 
5. Marvel Team-Up Annual#5 features Kull and Conan in flashbacks 
6. Doctor Strange III#26/2 has a Conan cameo in flashback (confirmed 
in #31's letters page) 
7. Punisher Annual#2 features a retelling of Savage Sword of 
Conan#40-43 and King Conan#4 as part of the history of the Serpent 
Crown 
8. Uncanny X-Men Annual#13/3 features a Kull cameo 
9. Omm, from CTB I#13, was mentioned in Marvel Team-Up I#111 
10. Marvel Premiere#4-5 mentions the Serpent Men of Valusia 
11. Conan appears briefly in FF I#405 
12. In X-Force#23, Crule mentions Mitra-a Hyborian Era god. 
13. Red Sonja meets Spider-Man in MTU I#79. 
14. The Book of Skelos, a Hyborian Era tome, is mentioned in Avengers 
Annual#22/2. 
15. The Watcher of Earth-616 was shown observing the Hyborian Age 
Earth during What If I#13, #39, #43, and II#16. 
16. Thor Corps#3 mentions the Hyborian Age 
17. Conan cameo in Avengers Forever#12 
18. Conan cameo in Excalibur I#47 
19. Shuma-Gorath, seen in Marvel Premiere#10, was mentiond in CTB 
I#85, and appeared in CTB I#259-260 (although in a different form, the 
letters page to #252 confirms this as same demon from Doctor Strange 
stories) 
20. Kulan Gath appearances in modern era 
21. Conan cameo in Incomplete Deaths' Head#11 
22. Hyborian Age mentioned in Doctor Strange III#13/2 
23. Hyborian Age mentions in Official Handbook entries for Set, 
Serpent Crown, Merlin, Zeus, Olympian Gods, Ulysses Bloodstone 
(Bloodstone entry mentions Vanaheim), Serpent Men (in #11 Appendix 
original), Darkhold, etc. 
24. Solomon Kane battles Dracula in Dracula Lives#3-mentioned in 
Handbook Dracula entry 
25. Solomon Kane's meeting with Frankensteins mentioned in Doctor 
Strange III#37 
26. SSith's appearances 
27. Marvel Saga#1 has brief Red Sonja/Conan cameo 
28. Marvel Saga#3 has brief Kull cameo 

This could serve as an extra bit for the Conan Index; references to 
Howard characters in other Marvel series. 


1. Kull appears in a flashback in Tomb of Dracula I#26 
2. Kull appears in a flashback in Doctor Strange III#11/2-as does 
Thulsa Doom, Morophla, Uathact, Red Sonja, and Conan 
3. Valka, a Thurian god from the Kull stories, is mentioned in 
Fear#15. 
4. Valka is mentioned in Doctor Strange III#33/2 
5. Marvel Team-Up Annual#5 features Kull and Conan in flashbacks 
6. Doctor Strange III#26/2 has a Conan cameo in flashback (confirmed 
in #31's letters page) 
7. Punisher Annual#2 features a retelling of Savage Sword of 
Conan#40-43 and King Conan#4 as part of the history of the Serpent 
Crown 
8. Uncanny X-Men Annual#13/3 features a Kull cameo 
9. Omm, from CTB I#13, was mentioned in Marvel Team-Up I#111 
10. Marvel Premiere#4-5 mentions the Serpent Men of Valusia 
11. Conan appears briefly in FF I#405 
12. In X-Force#23, Crule mentions Mitra-a Hyborian Era god. 
13. Red Sonja meets Spider-Man in MTU I#79. 
14. The Book of Skelos, a Hyborian Era tome, is mentioned in Avengers 
Annual#22/2. 
15. The Watcher of Earth-616 was shown observing the Hyborian Age 
during What If I#13, #39, #43, and II#16. 
16. Thor Corps#3 mentions the Hyborian Age 
17. Conan cameo in Avengers Forever#12 
18. Conan cameo in Excalibur I#47 
19. Shuma-Gorath, seen in Marvel Premiere#10, was mentiond in CTB 
I#85, and appeared in CTB I#259-260 (although in a different form, 
the 
letters page to #252 confirms this as same demon from Doctor Strange 
stories) 
20. Kulan Gath appearances in modern era 
21. Conan cameo in Incomplete Deaths' Head#11 
22. Hyborian Age mentioned in Doctor Strange III#13/2 
23. Hyborian Age mentions in Official Handbook entries for Set, 
Serpent Crown, Merlin, Zeus, Olympian Gods, Ulysses Bloodstone 
(Bloodstone entry mentions Vanaheim), Serpent Men (in #11 Appendix 
original), Darkhold, etc. 
24. Solomon Kane battles Dracula in Dracula Lives#3-mentioned in 
Handbook Dracula entry 
25. Solomon Kane's meeting with Frankensteins mentioned in Doctor 
Strange III#37 
26. SSith's appearances 
27. Marvel Saga#1 has brief Red Sonja/Conan cameo 
28. Marvel Saga#3 has brief Kull cameo 
29. In Bizarre Adventures#33/4, Varnae mentioned having observed 
Valusia and Acheron. 
30. Valka mentioned in Official Handbook Entry for Jennifer Kale. 
31. Kulan Gath appearance in Paradise X:Heralds. 


Hyborian Age mentioned in Handbook entries for Callisto, Valusia 
mentioned in Atlantis entry, Valusia mentioned in Savage Land entry, 
Lemuria entry...... 


Anyone have any other proofs?

			*	*	*

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 05:06 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

You could just say "yes". 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 11:05 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Yes, it's canon. Marvel just can't refer to it as having happened anymore, (since Dark Horse now has the rights to the Conan material). 

They may not be in the MCP, but Conan and company are canon. Eventually, I think we'll look into adding full blown chronologies for Conan and company, but it's not high on the priority list...
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 Jul 2004 09:34 am    
By Dhall

This is a similar situation to the Micronauts series or some of the Old Western Marvl titles: Yes it's canon, no it's not in the MCP yet, because a) it's not a high priority and b) it's effects on the main Marvel Universe are small (but of course these do exist.) 


Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 14

Posted: 09 Jul 2004 09:25 am    Post subject: Doctor Strange knowing Peter Parker's identity
By Enda80

Somebody asked on the old boards as to when Doctor Strange discovered Peter Parker's identity. 

I recall an interview in Marvel Age from around 1985 in which it was stated that Doctor Strange knew. Don Campbell stated that he seemed to know by MTU@5 (released in 1982). 

Does anyone have those issues where the Black Cat's power was causing bad luck? I remember that Doctor Strange cast a spell that neutralized her powers, and maybe in those issues might help us find out if he knew by the or not.

			*	*	*

Thread 15

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 06:36 pm    Post subject: Timeline
By Marvel Jedi

some text is borrowd but it's mainly mine: -All events in the time line are universe 616 canon. 
-All Names belonging to multiple people will have a numerical notation excluding the 1st. 
-events originating in universe 616 will be noted. 


Before modern era 
20,000,000,000- The Big Bang occurs from the massive explosion mass and energy condensed to form the universe, (Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion, Lord Chaos, Master Order, and others) abstract entities who are the ethereal embodiments of the new universe were reborn, 
The being that had been Galen was hurled from the center of the explosion in his recreated spaceship inside the ship Galen was undergoing a metamorphosis that would take eons. 
18,500- The Deviants conquered and ruled the island continent of Lemuria in the Pacific Ocean and there established the seat of their empire, Kull (an Atlantean barbarian) became king of Valusia (an island off the coast of Atlantis) which was the greatest seat of human civilization One of his greatest foes were the Serpent Men who used their shape-changing abilities to resemble human beings and infiltrate human civilizations with the intent of conquering them, King Kull managed to uncover many of the Serpent Men's plots and had many of them killed, Atlantean sorcerers discovered the Darkhold (the ancient mystical scroll penned by the Elder God Chthon). Founding the Cult of the Darkholders they began experimenting with the spells contained on the parchment looking for a method to cause their enemies to return from the dead, Varnae (a Darkholder dying of natural causes) volunteered to be the first test subject After his death Varnae was successfully returned to a semblance of life becoming the first vampire on Earth, The Darkholders hoping to use their own enemies as weapons of destruction intended to use the vampires against their greatest enemy King Kull of Valusia However the vampires were more powerful than the sorcerers and the undead turned against their creators killing them, The vampires then fled to continental Eurasia, Varnae assumed the role of Lord of the Vampires and retained this title for millennia The remaining members of the Cult of the Darkhold also eventually settled in Eurasia (taking the Darkhold with them), Over the next few millennia the parchment passed through a number of different hands Civilization and technological innovations greatly improved the lives of most of the Atlanteans they experienced innovations in technology and science which have yet to be paralleled by modern humans over the next 500 years Atlantis became more civilized and developed into an empire. 
10000- Red Sonja (a warrioress from the Hyrkanian Steppes) encountered the evil Kulan Gath who had become High Priest of the N'Garai (a race of ancient demonic beings whom the wizard worshiped) The two fought and Sonja killed the sorcerer however Gath transferred his soul into a nearby amulet he had ensorcelled waiting for the time when it was brought to a spot where mystical forces would be gathered close together around it, Conan (a barbarian mercenary from the land of Cimmeria) became king of the land of Aquilonia, allied with the Serpent Men, Thoth-Amon made his stand against his greatest enemy King Conan with the aid of his son Conn Conan slew Thoth-Amon and the last of the original race of Serpent Men with the death of Thoth-Amon the cult of Set in Stygia began declining in power and influence.9500- The peoples around the Caspian Sea eventually experienced prosperity resulting in a population boom these peoples (descendants of Nordic and Cimmerian tribes) became known as the Aryans their growing population forced an outward migration and many Aryans left their homelands to settle in lands that would become known as: India, Asia Minor, and throughout most of Europe. 


6500- Homo mermanus, an aquatic blue-skinned humanoid race possibly created by either Inhuman or Deviant genetic experimentation began wandering the Atlantic Ocean at first nomadic the mermani eventually became builders and many abandoned their hunter/gatherer ways, Neptune an other-dimensional being from the realm of Olympus and a descendant of Ouranus became patron god of the majority of Homo mermani and even lived among them for a while. 
6000- Egyptian people began worshiping Atum-Ra, descendant of Nun Atum-Ra's children would also one day come to be worshiped by the Egyptians, A tribe of homo mermani discovered the submerged capital city of Atlantis Kamuu, leader of the mermani, discovered the throne and sword of the Atlantean Emperor Kamuu Upon their discovery Kamuu was visited by the spirit of the deceased Emperor who invited the merman to settle within the city ruins and to there found a new empire the merman Kamuu agreed and convinced his people to settle within the walls of the ruined city these Homo mermani would become known as the new Atlanteans. 
5900- Three decades after the death of Emperor Kamuu Atlantis was besieged by a tribe of cannibalistic Homo mermani known as the Faceless Ones the city was saved from destruction when a northern tribe of mermani known as the Old Ones led by a warrior-mage named Suma-Ket, offered to eradicate the Faceless Ones in return for allowing his people to settle within Atlantis the Atlanteans agreed and Suma-Ket quickly fulfilled his promise by driving the cannibals from the city Ket (claiming to be a prophet of a new way of life) won over many followers to his form of religion some of his new disciples even assassinated the Emperor the son of Kamuu to please Suma-Ket Ket's followers degenerated further into wickedness killing the priests of Neptune and sacrificing many Atlantean children to Ket's dark gods those who did not follow Ket were quickly cowered into submission the Atlanteans finally rose up against Suma-Ket and his followers when Kalen (grandson of Kamuu) returned to Atlantis after a lengthy journey Kalen inspired the Atlanteans to return to Neptune worship and to overthrow Ket's wickedness this led to a civil war between the Homo mermani which Kalen's followers eventually won despite their victory Ket was still too powerful to destroy so it was ruled that he and his remaining followers be exiled to a realm known as the Grey Waters before his banishment Ket prophesied that he would eventually return to rule again when the blood of the Old Ones mingled with the blood of Kalen. 
5500- About half of the population of Atlantean Homo mermani immigrated to the Pacific Ocean-- they eventually settled in the ruined cities of submerged Lemuria and became known as the new Lemurians They discovered the skeletal remains of Atra (wielder of the Serpent Crown) and Phraug (the Deviant emperor) but shunned the area where they lay as evil. 
2900- En Sabah Nur an Egyptian mutant who had complete molecular control over his own body was worshiped as a god by the Egyptians (they mistakenly believed En Sabah Nur to be a mystical being) and he was worshiped sometimes as Set (the Elder God) and Seth (the Egyptian god of death and famine) 
2800- Olympian leader Zeus took the guise of King Amphitryon of Troezen and seduced the king's wife Queen Alcmena and fathered a child with her She gave birth to Hercules Zeus' wife Hera was enraged that Zeus had committed adultery against her and vowed to one day destroy Hercules. 2799- Hercules first displayed his enormous strength when he strangled two serpents that Hera had summoned to attack him. 
2776- Hercules was commanded by King Eurystheus of Argos to perform twelve great feats of labor which would take 12 years to complete (One of these feats was to enter Hades the Olympian realm of the dead and capture Cerberus, the guardian of the underworld). 
2764- Hercules' successful capture of Cerberus infuriated Pluto (ruler of Hades) and the two became enemies one of Hercules twelve feats that of the cleaning of the Augean stables was performed by the Eternal (who would become known as Gilgamish, or the Forgotten One) Because of his enormous strength, people believed the Eternal to be Hercules. 2758- Hercules was killed when his wife Deianeira accidentally poisoned him Zeus intervened in the murder and transported his son to Olympia where he was revived and made a full immortal. 2750- Gilgamish the Eternal became king of the city of Uruk in the land of Sumer. 
Modern Era 
1653-The Frost family of merchants arrive from Great Briton to Boston. 
1746-Hellfire Club is founded. 
1776-America declares its independence. 
1838-Matt Hawk is born in Boston. 
1845-Carter Slade is born in the American west. 
1858-Matt Hawk becomes a lawyer and moves to Tombstone (Texas) soon after living there Matt Hawk upset by all of the crime becomes the western-hero The Two Gun Kid. 
1867-Johnny Clay is born in Texas. 
1868-Johnny Clays parents are killed by Cheyenne Indians and he is adopted by a Texas ranger named Ben Bart and Johnny changes his name to Johnny Bart. 
1873-Carter Slade a Comanche Indian is given super powers from a meteor and becomes The Phantom Rider or Ghost Rider. 
1877-Carter Slade (The Phantom Rider or Ghost Rider 1) dies in a mine cave-in. 
1878-Abraham Erskine is born in Germany, The Two Gun Kid is killed while defending a town in Montana. 
1884-Johnny Barts adoptive father Ben Bart is killed and after avenging his death Johnny Bart becomes the western hero The Rawhide Kid 
1886-James Howlett is born in Canada. 
1887-The Rawhide Kid fights alongside the Avengers (who traveled back in time). 
1889- (April 20) Adolf Hitler is born in Austria-Hungry. 
1895-Dr. Phineas T. Horton is born. 
1897-The Rawhide Kid dies (causes unknown). 
1900-Abraham Erskine becomes a doctor of genetic engineering. 
1902-James Howlett wetness his fathers (John Howlett) 
murder by Thomas Logan and his son Dog and the young and frail James Howlett (angered by this) sprouts retractable claws and kills Thomas Logan after that James Howlett and his girlfriend Rose flee from their home town and go to British Columbia. 
1903- James Howletts name is changed to Logan by his girlfriend Rose, Logan hones his new found abilities and discovers that he has animal keen senses. 


1905-Dog (who has ben hired to kill Logan for running away with Rose) catches up with Logan who fights Dog savagely Rose tried to break up the fight but Logan accidentally stabbed Rose with his claws and killed her after that (unable to live with others) Logan ran into the Canadian wilderness to live alone. 
1910- Myron Maclain is born. 
1912- Richard Stoner is born. 
1914- World War I starts. 
1915- Nicholas Fury is born in Hells Kitchen NYC, Prince Namor is born in Atlantis, the United States government creates a military-science division called Weapon-Plus its mission is to create super-soldiers. 
1918-World War I ends. 
1920- Steve Rogers is born in NYC, Johann Schmidt is born in Germany. 
1921- Adolf Hitler forms the Nazi Storm troopers. 
1922- (December 28) Stan Leeber (changed last name to Lee) is born. 
1923- Jake Fury is born, Timothy Aloysius Cadwallader Dugan is born. 
1930-Eric Magnus Lenscherr is born in Poland. 
1931- Phil Sheldon is Born, Jay Jonah Jamieson is born. 
1932- 
1933- (January) Adolf Hitler becomes the Chancellor of Germany, Brian Banner is born, Ben Parker is born, 
1934-May Rieley is born 
1935- 
1936- 
1937- 
1938- 
1939- Dr. Phineas T. Horton creates an android whichs skin combusts on contact with air and the public incorrectly dubbs him The Human Torch, Dr. Myron Maclain discovers Vibranium in Africa , Dr. Abraham Erskine a Jewish doctor is captured by the Nazis and forced to create an experimental performance enhancement serum, The CIA locate and rescue Dr. Abraham Erskine and his family and codename him Dr. Rienstien after that he gladly creates the super-soldier serum for the American government. 
1940- Timothy Aloysius Cadwallader Dugan becomes the strongman in a traveling circus and calls himself Dum Dum Dugan. 


1941-weak polio stricken Steve Rogers is given an experimental Super-Soldier serum (The Super soldier serum was created by Dr. Abraham Erskine (who was working for the Weapon-Plus program) which involved a single dose of gene enhancement chemicals and a blast of low-grade radiation Dr. Abraham Erskine was shot and killed by Nazi spy right after making Steve Rogers into a super-soldier Steve Rogers is code-named Captain America and becomes the finest human combatant and is given a patriotic costume along with the first Vibranium weapon (a shield), Pvt. Michael Barnes sees Steve Rogers changing into the Captain America suit and after the revelation Michael Barnes calls himself Bucky and becomes Captain Americas sidekick, Dr. Myron Maclain invents Adamantium as an improvement on Vibranium an unbreakable metal and creates a new Shield (made of Adamantium and mostly Vibranium) for Captain America, Nicholas Fury enters WWII., Nicholas Fury meets Dum Dum Dugan in Holland, Nicholas Fury get promoted to Sgt. and recruits Dum Dum Dugan for the Howling Commandos (Furys platoon) , Professor. Charles Xavier is born in NYC (, Captain America and his sidekick Bucky Barnes fight the Nazi Super-soldier The Red Skull (Johann Schmidt) for the first time. 
1942- Heroes (Captain America and his sidekick Bucky, The Sub-Mariner a.k.a. Prince Namor of Atlantis, The Human Torch, Black Widow, and The Flaming Skull) join forces to fight the Nazis and the Axis powers and call themselves The Invaders. 
1943-Logan comes out of seclusion and joins the Canadian army and he is sent to battle in WWII. 
1944- Logan is fighting in the Canadian army on D day and meets Captain America and Sgt. Nicholas Fury. 
1945- The Red Skull (Johann Schmidt) is burned by his own grenade and put into suspended animation by experimental gasses in the bunker in which he was trapped in by Captain America in the final days of WWII, Steve Rogers a.k.a. Captain America and private Michael Barnes a.k.a. Bucky are MIA and presumed dead after the Nazi technician Baron H. Zenos drone-rocket-plane explodes with them in it over the Arctic ocean, (April 30) Adolf Hitler commits suicide, Eric Magnus Lenscherr is liberated from Auschwitz death camp he is the only surviving member of his family, Sgt. Nicholas Fury goes home after WWII and is given an experimental anti-aging serum called the Infinity Formula. 
1947-Frank Castigeone (changed name to Frank Castle) is born. 
1950- (July 22) Sgt. Nicholas Fury enters the Korean war. 
1952-Charles Xavier discovers that he is a mutant, Otto Octavious is born. 
1953-( July 15) Sgt. Nicholas Fury returns back home after the Korean war. 
1955-Sgt. Nicholas Fury becomes a CIA operative. 
1956-Reed Richards is born in, Victor Von Doom is born in Latveria, The Original Human Torch burns himself out and supposedly dies, Brian Banner marries his girlfriend Rebecca during college, the CIA sends Sgt. Nicholas Fury to Vietnam to spy for the French government and for his duty he is promoted to Colonel. 


1957- Brian Banner settled on going to Los Alamos to work on a government project to find a source for clean nuclear radiation the stress of the job led Brian Banner to start drinking which also led him to become more erratic and quick to anger with Rebecca and his fellow employees after one night of excessive drinking Brian Banner tried to work on his project and accidently caused an overload of the equipment Brian Banner was court-martialed and released from the project even though he was behind a shield when the overload occurred and multiple doctors examined him and found nothing Brian Banner still felt that some amount of radiation got through and affected his genetic structure and was even more convinced not to have any children Brian Banner eventually found a job and started to try and pull his life together when Rebecca announced that she was pregnant, Mafia blood-bath in Las Vegas, Col. Nicholas Fury gains a permanent position at the CIA, Ben Parker marries May Rieley (May changes her last name to Parker). 
1958- Robert Bruce Banner is born after his birth in Dayton Robert Bruce Banner was kept in extensive care for observation and examination but the doctor's found nothing out of the ordinary he was also examined for any trace radiation due to Brian Banners exposure but none was detected Brian Banner still thought that his son was mutated by radiation, Benjamin J. Grimm is born in NYC, Logan becomes a CIA operative. 
1960-A young prostitute in labor is bitten by a vampire (Deacon Frost) posing as a doctor and after that Eric Brooks a.k.a. Blade the half human half vampire is born in the Bronx--(Blade has all of the strengths of a vampire: super stamina, healing factor, and immunity from vampire bites. Blade has none of a vampires weaknesses: sunlight, wooden stakes, silver, garlic, and religious symbols and no thirst for blood of any kind) Seconds after Eric Brookss birth his mother dies. 
1961-Wolverine meets another CIA operative code-named Sabertooth a.k.a. Victor Creed who is also a mutant with regenerative abilities and animal keen senses but Sabertooth is deeply psychotic, Carl Lucas is born in Harlem (NYC). 
1962- (December 25) when Robert Bruce Banner woke up early and snuck down to the Christmas tree he opened one of his presents which was an erector set- he managed to put together a very intricate structure in little time Brian Banner came down and smashed the structure saying that Robert Bruce Banner was a freak and that someone his age should not be able to do that Brian Banner thought that the radiation had altered his Robert Bruce Banners brain making him super-smart and Brian Banner would have probably killed Robert Bruce Banner had Rebecca Banner not come into the room at that moment Rebecca Banner tried to get in the way and Brian Banner hit her when Robert Bruce Banner tried to run to his mother Brian Banner hit him also too Brain looked at Bruce and called him a inhuman monster. 
1963-Jennifer Walters is born, Charles Xavier graduates Oxford and becomes a Professor of genetics. 
1964-Wolverine and Sabertooth are on a special mission in Berlin and their mission is to rescue another operative and they do but Sabertooth becomes psychotically enraged for whatever reason and kills the operative who they had rescued from that moment on Wolverine and Sabertooth would be mortal enemies. 


1965- Matt Murdock is born in Hells Kitchen, Matt Murdocks mother Maggie Murdock leaves his father Jack Battlin Jack Murdock to become a nun, after much physical and mental abuse to both Rebecca Banner and her son Robert Bruce Banner Rebecca Banner packed suitcases (for them) and tried to leave with Robert Bruce Banner Brian Banner catches them at the car before they leave and starts to struggle with Rebecca Banner Robert Bruce Banner yells to his father to let his mother go and that he will be good but Brian Banner throws Rebecca Banner to the ground and kills her Robert Bruce Banner runs to her side and just sits there beside her lifeless body after this point Robert Bruce Banner represses all of his negative emotions. 
1966-Sue Storm is born, Dr. Phineas T. Horton dies, Brian Braddock is born, Lester Pondexter is 
born, Frank Castle marries his girlfriend Maria and have a daughter named Barbra, Brian Banner is sentenced to life in a mental institution, Robert Bruce Banner was sent to live with his mothers sister. 
1968- Benjamin J. Grimm witnesses the murder of his older brother (Daniel Grimm the leader of the Yancy Street gang) by a rival gang, Frank and Maria castle have a son named Frank jr, Frank Castle goes to Vietnam, Logan is captured by a faction of the United States government called Weapon X and Logans bones are bonded with Adamantium (Making his claws razor sharp and his bones un-breakable this procedure was done because Logan was a CIA operative who was a mutant with a rapid healing factor which enables his claws to rip through his hands time and time again the United States military wanted good candidates for super-soldiers) also Logans memory was also erased and all he remembers is his name (Logan) and his past combat experiences along with memories of other operatives and he is code-named Wolverine. he is made into a living weapon when Logan wakes up he is tested by scientists physically and emotionally after weeks of torture and experiments Logan snaps and brutally kills everyone at the base with his adamantium claws and runs into the wilderness in a feral animal-like state, Logan is found by a couple living in the wilderness who take him in during that time Logan recovers his humanity. 
1969 Johnny Storm is born, Logan returns to another branch of Weapon X and works with other mutants including Sabertooth. 
1970- Elektra Natchios is born, Henry McCoy is born, Scott Summers is born, Brian Braddocks sister Elizabeth Braddock is born, Peter Parker is born, Jessica Jones is born, Frank and Maria Castle have a second child named Frank jr., Wolverine (Logan) spends six months doing special operations with a platoon in Vietnam for Weapon X, Mortimer Toynbee is born 
1971-The Norse-God Thor is banished from his home realm Asgard to Earth by his father Odin Thors memory is erased and he lives his life believing that he is a doctor named Donald Blake, 
Frank Castle comes home from Vietnam a war hero and returns to his wife Maria and two children, Gwen Stacey is born in NYC, Mary Jane Watson is born in NYC, Wolverine meets another Weapon X operative code-named Sabertooth a.k.a. Victor Creed who is also a mutant with regenerative abilities and animal keen senses but Sabertooth is deeply psychotic, Eric Magnus Lenscherr marries a woman named Magda and has a daughter named Anya when a mob prevented Eric Magnus Lenscherr from saving Anya from dying in a fire he used his magnetic abilities to kill everyone in the mob terrified by Eric Magnus Lenscherrs threats against humanity Magda fled not revealing that she was pregnant with twins, unnamed twins (one male one female who are Eric Magnus Lenscher s children: unknown to him at the time) are born and their mother Magda dies in childbirth so her children are adopted by the Maximoff family and are named Pietro and Wanda, Logan joins the Canadian super-hero team First Flight. 
1972- Kurt Wagner is born in Germany, Emma Frost is born in Boston. 
1973- Emma Frost is born in Boston. 
1974- Robert Bruce Banner graduates High School and goes to Desert State University, Professor. Charles Xavier travels to Israel to help holocaust survivors and he meets Eric Magnus Lenscherr who happens also to be living there at the time and discovers that Eric Magnus Lenscherr is also a mutant, Eric Magnus Lenscherr and Professor. Charles Xavier become good friends and have many adventures together but Eric Magnus Lenscherr who worked with Israeli intelligence officials was betrayed by them and seemingly disappeared to parts unknown. 
1975- Professor. Charles Xaviers legs are crippled in a battle with the alien calling himself Lucifer, Eric Magnus Lenscherr decides that humans are starting a war with mutankind and starts a campaign against humans and calls himself Magneto, Victor Von Doom is injured and disfigured in a trans-dimensional projectional device (Which exploded after 2 minutes and 37 seconds) and gives up college and goes off in search of some kind of cure, Matt Murdock is blinded by radioactive waste, Scott Summers and his family are in a plane crash the only survivors are Scott Summers and his brother Alex Summers, Scott Summers is left in a coma from his injuries. 
1976-Richard and Mary Parker are supposedly killed and their child Peter Parker goes off to live with his aunt and uncle May Parker and Ben Parker in Forrest Hills NYC., Frank Castle and is his family have a picnic in central park (NYC) and accidentally witness a mob hit they are spotted and all gunned down in the park Frank Castle is the only survivor. 
1977- Frank Castle who upon his recovery (from the loss of his family and multiple gunshot wounds) uses his military training to kill criminals and becomes the vigilante known as The Punisher He hunts down the Costa crime family (who are responsible for his familys murder) he kills all the Costas but the Costa brothers ( Mafia bosses Frank & Bruno) are dead when he finds them. 
1978- Robert Bruce Banner graduates colledge and attends medical school. 


1980-Bio-chemical weapons manufacturer Norman Osborn has his partner Mendel Stromm arrested for false imbezzelment charges afterward Norman Osborn inspects Mendel Stromms work-he finds a performance-enhancement serum he holds it but he is too close to a Bunsen Burner and it explodes Norman Osborn is rushed to the hospital and the doctors declare him well the next day (because he has no burns or broken bones) but the doctors did find some unusual brain activity Norman Osborn returns to his life as a millionaire and Bio-chemical weapons maker, Anthony (Tony) Stark is injured in Vietnam (while testing equipment) by a booby-trap and he is taken hostage by a terrorist group but later he escapes. The injuries which Anthony (Tony) 
Stark sustained are terminal so he builds a life-support battle suit (made of Secondary-Adamantium) and he secretly becomes the crime fighter known as Iron Man and also leads Stark enterprises, Scott Summers awakes from his coma seemingly unharmed only to find out that his brother Alex Summers has been adopted, Victor Von Doom travels to Tibet and finds a group of monks who make him an armored suit (constructed from Secondary-Adamantium a mixture of adamantium and common steel to make a semi-unbreakable metal) after that he calls him self Dr. Doom, Dr. Donald Blake feels compelled to go to Norway and after he gets there he discovers that he is really the Norse- God Thor after he finds the magic Hammer of Mjolnir Thor then resumed his heroic quest, Mortimer Toynbee a mutant with Toad like qualities is recruited by Magneto and Mortimer Toynbee calls himself Toad, Zebediah Killgrave was a spy working for the Soviet bloc who was assigned to invade an American army ordnance depot and steal a sample of an experimental nerve gas A military guard came upon Killgrave and fired a shot at him which accidentally hit a canister of the nerve gas, which was stored in liquid form along with a stabilizing fluid The contents of the canister poured out thoroughly drenching Killgrave impregnating his skin and indelibly dying him purple Caught outright and questioned Killgrave offered a weak inadequate alibi to his captors Much to his surprise, he was believed and released Several more incidents of this nature demonstrated that being doused by the nerve gas had given Killgrave the superhuman ability to command the wills of other people Calling himself the Purple Man Killgrave embarked on a criminal career 
1981-Scott Summers suffers from migraine headaches and eye-strain so his Doctor prescribes ruby-quartz glasses to help him, Dr. Doom returns to his home-country Latveria and takes over the government and declares him self Supreme Monarch, Anthony (Tony) 
Stark proposes the idea of S.H.I.E.L.D. to United States president Ronald Regan but his proposal is denied, Hydra an international terrorist group makes its first attack on the United States of America, president Ronald Regan gives Anthony (Tony) Stark permission to develop S.H.I.E.L.D. and development starts on the project very soon afterward. 
1982-Scott Summers is visiting NYC when his glasses off energy bursts from his eyes and stops only when his ruby-quartz glasses are put back on, Dr. Otto Octavious becomes one of the foremost authorities on nuclear physics, Robert Bruce Banner becomes a doctor, Dr. Robert Bruce Banner attends graduate school at the California Institute of Technology and studies nuclear physics. 
1983-Scott Summers enrolls at Professor. Charles Xaviers school for Higher Learning in Westchester NY State, Dr. Otto Octavious makes a set of four 25 foot mechanical tentacles controlled by dials- the tentacles are used to assist him in manipulating nuclear isotopes. 
1984-Dr. Otto Octavious use of his mechanical tentacle earns him the nickname of Dr. Octopus, Dr. Robert Bruce Banner pitched the idea of a gamma bomb to General Thadieous Ross after the pitch he is given the position with General Thadieous Ross, Brian Banner is released from the mental institution and lives with his son Dr. Robert Bruce Banner, Dr. Robert Bruce Banner went to his mother's burial site because it was the anniversary of her death Brian Banner followed him there and started talking again about how Dr. Robert Bruce Banner was evil they got into an argument which let to a physical confrontation Dr. Robert Bruce Banner was on the ground and Brian Banner was about to jump on him when Dr. Robert Bruce Banner pushed him back with his foot Brian Banner stumbled back and broke his neck on the Rebecca Banners gravestone and died. 
1985- Dr. Robert Bruce Banner starts work at General Thadieous Ross desert military base, the world renowned scientist Reed Richards, Susan and Johnny Storm, and Benjamin J. Grimm, pilot a space flight (ran by Reed Richards and done so quickly for fear of competition with the Soviet Union) that leaves them mutated by cosmic rays and then they become the Fantastic Four (Mr. Fantastic, The Invisible Woman, The Human Torch (2), and The Thing), The Fantastic Four battle Dr. Doom (Who is an old acquaintance of Reed Richards from ESU), Dr. Robert Bruce Banner has an accident with gamma bomb detonation and becomes the Hulk (a eight foot, angry, mindless, and destructive green monster the monster is the literal manifestation of Dr. Robert Bruce Banners repressed rage) when he is angry, S.H.I.E.L.D. is now a fully functional branch of the United States government and Richard Stoner is picked as its director of operations, HYDRA ( a terrorist group) recovers and revives The Red Skull (Johann Schmidt) from suspended animation, Col. Nicholas Fury becomes an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., Lester Pondexter joins the army, S.H.I.E.L.D. director of operations Richard Stoner is caught spying on Hydra members unloading something from a ocean liner and he had to shoot his way out but due to his age he was shot five times he hastily drove to Anthony Tony Starks mansion where he bled to death in front of the drunk Anthony Tony Stark next to his pool, Col. Nicholas Fury gets his left eye shot out by his younger brother Jake Fury who is a traitor to the United States working for Hydra, Col. Nicholas Fury becomes the second director of operations for S.H.I.E.L.D. and has some of The Howling Commandos (Dum Dum Dugan, and Gabriel Jones) as his sub commanders. 
1986-Dr. Curt Conners attempts to regenerate his amputated arm by using reptile DNA and becomes The Lizard, Jessica Jones develops a crush on the often picked on science wiz and fellow high-school student Peter Parker but she never tells him, (November 3) Peter Parker is bitten by radioactive spider at a science demonstration which gives him the abilities of a spider (Enhanced strength, super speed, and amazingly quick reflexes, however: he does not have the ability to shoot webbing) so he makes a red and blue costume and modifies a science project so he can have instant web that he can shoot form bracelets on his wrists and calls himself Spider-Man and has his 15 minutes of fame on TV after the show the studio is robbed and Peter Parker (out of a self-esteem boost) lets the robber get away feeling its not his job, Jessica Jones and her family are in a car accident with a truck carrying an unknown substance she is the only survivor but is left in a coma, (November 22) Peter Parker comes home from school to find out that his uncle Ben Parker is murdered enraged by this Peter Parker finds out where the killer is hiding puts on his Spider-Man costume and tracks the crook down when Peter Parker finds the killer he beats the killer up very quickly realizes that he is the robber from the TV station Peter Parker webs the criminal up for the police from that night on Peter Parker vows to use his powers to fight crime and save people and takes on the double life as Peter Parker student and loving nephew and Spider-Man crime fighter, 
Peter Parker (Spider-Man) gets a job from Jay Jonah Jamieson as a photographer at The Daily Bugle tabloid news-paper and as Spider-Man encounters villains: The Chameleon and The Vulture, Dr. Otto Octavious was doing a routine nuclear diagnostic using his mechanical tentacles the particles (in the isotope) destabilized and exploded destroying the lab and killing everyone inside except Dr. Otto Octavious when emergency technicians discovered Dr. Otto Octavious he was unconscious they also noticed that he was still wearing his mechanical tentacles while in the hospital doctors discovered that they could not remove his mechanical tentacles because after the explosion the harness the mechanical tentacles were connected to was welded to his spine doctors also noted that the radiation had made him delusional and criminally psychotic what the doctors did not discover was that the tentacles had become integrated with his central nervous system giving Dr. Otto Octavious mental control over the tentacles they were now essentially 4 new arms (he no longer needed the dials to control them) 
when he awoke he no longer refered to himself Dr. Otto Octavious he called himself Dr. Octopus he took the hospital staff hostage in his room Spider-Man came to the rescue but was beaten by Dr. Octopus Dr. Octopus then escaped the hospital Spider-Man caught up with Dr. Octopus and Spider-Man beat Dr. Octopus with one punch after that Dr. Octopus was arrested, Spider-Man fights villans: Dr. Doom ,The Lizard, The Sand Man, and The Green Goblin (Norman Osborn woke up one morning and read a negative article in The Daily Bugle about Spider-Man- after being annoyed with the idea of a vigilante he walked to work as he usually did and he saw a costume shop and in the window was a green goblin mask Norman Osborn thought nothing of it after work he blacked out for 8 hours when he blacked out he bought the goblin mask he saw and stuffed it in his closet and started talking to himself and laughing the next morning he woke up not remembering the night before and went to work over the next 3 weeks Norman Osborn would black out for short periods and make things like a goblin battle suit, a rocket broom-stick, a rocket bat-glider, many grenades shaped like pumpkins, and a plan to kill Spider-Man The reason why is because after being in the chemical explosion 6 years prior he gained the strength enhancement and also a split personality.), Matt Murdock graduates law school and his father (Jack Batilin Jack Murdock) is killed, doctors at Rykers Island Prison surgically remove Dr. Octopuss harness from his torso and ship the mechanical tentacles across the country to be studied but when Dr. Octopus wakes up he can still sense the mechanical tentacles (because of his psionic connection to them) so he mentally guides his mechanical tentacles back to Rykers Island Prison once the mechanical tentacles got inside his cell he put the harness back around his waist (he could now take the harness on and off) and once he was reunited with his mechanical tentacles he broke out of Rykers Island Prison, Matt Murdock becomes Daredevil, Daredevil fights many villans: Electro, Purple Man, Mr. Fear, and the Masked Marauder, Spider-Man meets Daredevil, Charles Xavier Creates the mutant super team known as The X-men from his students (Scott Summers a.k.a Cyclops, Jean Grey a.k.a Marvel Girl, Henry McCoy a.k.a Beast, Bobby Drake a.k.a Iceman, and Warren Worthington III a.k.a. Angel) and School and go off to fight Magneto at a missile base in Florida, Magneto creates The Brother Hood of Mutants (Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Toad, and Mastermind), Howard Trask creates the Sentinels to kill and capture all mutants and Howard Trask fails and dies. 


1987- Elite super-heros (Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor) form The Avengers, The Mutant Threat becomes public, Hulk leaves the Avengers, Goliath and Wasp join the Avengers, Captain America (Steve Rogers) is found frozen in the arctic and revived and becomes the leader of The Avengers, Bucky Barnes is confirmed dead, Prince Namor of Atlantis files a lawsuit against the human race and Matt Murdock (Daredevil) is his lawyer, Baron H. Zemo is killed in a battle with Captain America (Steve Rogers), Quicksilver a.k.a. Pietro Maximoff and Scarlet Witch a.k.a. Wanda Maximoff quit The Brotherhood of Mutants and join the Avengers, Galactus a giant word eating alien landed in New York City in order to ear earth his minion The Silver Surfer rebelled as a result and Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four thwarted Galactus by threatening to use an alien device called the Ultimate Nullifier on him a weapon that could kill even Galactus Galactus was forced to vow to spare Earth and he punished the Surfer by erecting an energy barrier that prevented the Surfer from leaving Earth, during the large Galactus battle Jessica Jones awoke from her coma she learns of her familys death and is adopted she then returns to he school midtown high, Jessica Jones realizes she has super strength so she goes to central park to test out her powers she lifts a tree out of the ground than she tries to fly and she succeeds she soars high above New York City but crashes into the Atlantic ocean but luckily she is saved by Thor, later Jessica Jones hones her skills and becomes the crime fighter known as Jewel. 


1988-Peter Parker (Spider-Man) graduates from Midtown High School and goes to Empire State University for college, Peter Parker (Spider-Man) meets Gwen Stacey and Harry Osborn, The Green Goblin (1) captures Peter Parker (who he discovered is Spider-Man) while captive (the duration about 90 minutes) The Green Goblin reveals himself to be Norman Osborn Harry Osborns father and tells him how he became the goblin Peter and Norman fight and Norman shifts his personality back to normal and does not remember Peter Parkers secret, Peter Parker meets Mary Jane Watson, the alien race known as The Kree sends a spy to earth their spy is their military captain Mar-Vell After arriving on Earth Captain Mar-Vell witnessed the death of Dr. Walter Lawson (a scientist on his way to his new assignment at Cape Canaveral, Florida) in an auto accident coincidentally Lawson bore an astonishing resemblance to Mar-Vell Captain Mar-Vell decided to pose as him to study Earth humans Meanwhile Kree Sentry #459 (which the Fantastic Four had defeated earlier) had been brought to the Cape for study and Yon-Rogg ( Kree enemy of Mar-Vell) hoping that it would destroy Mar-Vell re-activated it from his starship Mar-Vell publicly appeared in his Kree helmet and uniform to battle the Sentry and succeeded in defeating it. Onlookers, hearing the Sentry call him by name, believed him to be a new Earth-born superhuman adventurer named "Captain Marvel" and acclaimed him as a hero, Alex Summers reunites with his brother (Scott Summers) and Joins the X-Men, Wilson Fisk (The Kingpin) becomes known as the lord of the criminal underworld, Fred Foswell (the Big Man) is gunned down by Wilson Fisks (The Kingpin) gang, Gwen Stacey becomes Peter Parkers (Spider-Man) girlfriend, Peter Parkers (Spider-Man) social enemy Flash Thompson goes to Vietnam for a special cleanup mission, Peter Parker meets his girlfriends father Captain. George Stacey (who is a retired NYPD captain), Jewel meets Purple Man who uses his mind control pheremones to make her his sex slave, Captain Mar-Vell is now called Captain Marvel on Earth and his Kree superiors upset with his abandonment of his Kree duties and sent soldiers to kill him but he escaped on a missile the Earth missile had no means of leaving hyperspace and drifted there for 63 days a that point Captain Marvel was in an utter state of exhaustion The Supreme Intelligence brought the missile to a small world on the edge of the Kree Galaxy and took the now unconscious Captain Marvel to a "multi-sensory illusion chamber" they had constructed there they caused him to have the illusion that he encountered a godlike being named Zo and gained powers - the powers that Captain Marvel then received were not illusory: he became far stronger than other known Kree and gained the ability to cast illusions and to teleport himself across even intergalactic distances The Supreme Intelligence (For his bravery and courage against them) honored Captain Marvel with a special uniform and allowed him to retain his newly increased strength and abilities to fly unprotected through space and hyperspace (although he could no longer teleport himself or cast illusions) Captain Marvel used his new found powers to protect Earth. 


1989- Alex Summers is captured by Larry Trask (son of Howard Trask) and is given the codename Havok but he escapes and regroups with the X-Men, During a showdown between Spider-Man and Dr. Octopus arriving at the scene Captain George Stacy tried to clear the area in front of the building of bystanders Dr. Octopus accidentally knocked a chimney off of a building and the bricks are about to crush a small child so Captain George Stacy saves the child but is fatally injured while dying in Spider-Mans arms Captain George Stacey tells Spider-Man to take care of his daughter Gwen (Stacey) after that Captain George Stacey dies (He called Spider-Man Peter thus revealing that he knew Spider-Mans true identity), Harry Osborn develops an addiction to Acid, Peter Parkers (Spider-Man) girlfriend Gwen Stacey is murdered by The Green Goblin and on that same night The Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) dies in a battle with Spider-Man from being impaled on his own Glider device, Phil Sheldon publishes his book Marvels, Spider-Man defeats The Vulture (3) a.k.a. Dr. Clifton Shallot who is arrested and sentenced to life in prison for murdering his 18-year old lab-assistant, The Punisher clashes with Spider-Man, Harry Osborn discovers that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, Harry Osborn maddened by his fathers (Norman Osborn a.k.a. The Green Goblin) death and double life and becomes The Green Goblin (2), Spider-Man meets his clone for the first time but is forced to fight him by the Jackal after the fight Spider-Man thinks his clone died during an explosion so he drops him down a smokestack, The Fantastic Four found the body of the original Human Torch in a lab and were forced to battle him at the will of the Mad Thinker, the original Human Torch killed himself to save the Fantastic Four, Captain Marvel became embroiled in battling Thanos and his plans for destroying all life in the universe- Captain Marvel was teleported to the presence of the extraterrestrial being called Eon which had been created thousands of years before to watch over the evolution of superhuman beings on Earth Eon induced Captain Marvel to reject the Kree's love of warfare entirely, and to reach inner peace Eon then granted Captain Marvel a psionic ability called "cosmic awareness", and designated him as "Protector of the Universe" Thanks to these changes in himself, Captain Marvel became the primary force in bringing about Thanos's defeat, Jewel is sent to kill Daredevil by Purple Man but when away from him she regains her free will but she is mistakenly attacked by the Avengers and The Defenders and is left in a coma, Johnny Blaze becomes The Ghost Rider(2), new mutants (Logan a.k.a Wolverine, Orro Monroe a.k.a Storm, Peter Rasputian a.k.a Colossus, Kurt Wagner a.k.a. Nightcrawler, and John Proudstar a.k.a Thunderbird) join the X-men, John Proudstar an X- Man is killed in a jet crash, Jean Grey a.k.a. Marvel Girl becomes the Phoenix, Jewel (Jessica Jones) is brought out of her coma by Phoenix and Jessica Jones meets S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Clay Quartermaine and is asked to join the Avengers but Jewel declines, Phoenix becomes the Dark Phoenix and The X-Men battle the Dark Phoenix and The Hellfire Club led by White Queen (Emma Frost) and Shaw Sebastian, Captain Marvel battled Nitro who had stolen a powerful nerve gas a leak developed in a canister of the gas but Captain Marvel used his great strength to seal it the gas caused Captain Marvel to collapse but he seemed to recover fully afterwards however the gas was also carcinogenic, Jean Grey gains minor control over The Phoenix but kills herself to save her fellow X-men, 13 year-old mutant girl Kitty Pryde a.k.a. Shadowcat joins The X-Men, 17-year-old mutant girl Rouge joins The X-Men, the cancer that the gas had given Captain Marvel took its toll Captain Marvel spent his last days on Titan where he died surrounded by his lover Elysius of Titan his best friend Rick Jones and the Avengers along with various other friends, Dr. Robert Bruce Banners cousin Jennifer Walters is injured by an attempt on her life Dr. Robert Bruce Banner gives her a transfusion of his blood however the gamma cells infect Jennifer Walters and turn her into the She-Hulk, Blade (Eric Brooks) the vampire hunter finds and kills Deacon Frost, 
Wilson Fisk (The Kingpin) comes back from hiding out in Japan to take back his status as lord of the underworld in the east coast, Elektra Natchios is murdered by Bullseye, Elektra Natchios is resurrected, Frank Castle is arrested after a battle with Spider-Man (1) and charged with numerous counts of homicide and is imprisoned, Frank Castle escapes from Rikers Island Prison after 60 days and continues his war against crime, 
Spider-Man, The X-Men (Wolverine, Cyclops, Colossus, Rouge, and Nightcrawler), Captain America, The Hulk, Iron Man (2), The Wasp, Hawkeye , Mr. Fantastic, The Human Torch (2), The Thing, She-Hulk, Dazzler, and Spider-Woman (2) a.k.a. Julia Carpenter are all transported to another planet by a being known as The Beyonder to battle their arch enemies such as: Dr. Victor Von Doom, Doctor Octopus, Magneto, Galactus, Ultron, Molecule Man, Absorbing Man, The Lizard, and others in the Secret Wars after 2 weeks all of the combatants who battled in the Secret Wars are returned to earth except for The Thing (Benjamin j. Grimm), She-Hulk (Jennifer Walters) joins the Fantastic Four in the place of Benjamin J. Grim (The Thing), The Punisher meets up with his old friend David Linus Microchip Lieberman and Microchip and his son help The Punisher in his war on crime, Spider-Man (1) gets an alien black costume (from The Secret Wars)and wears it for 2 months but he finds out that the costume is alive so he has Dr. Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic) neutralize it for a time, Spider-Man returns to his Blue&Red spider suitThe alien costume tries to merge with Spider-Man once more but Spider-Man drives it away with the sonic waves of a bell towerSpider-Man leaves the symbiotic costume in the bell tower and it merges with down an out Daily Globe reporter Eddie Brock after the merging Eddie Brock in endowed with all of Spider-Mans powers that the suit has and the knowledge that Spider-Man is Peter Parkerafter all this Eddie Brock melded with the alien costume calls himself Venom, Brian Braddock becomes Captain Britain the protector of the Omniverse, 6 month after (the Secret Wars) Benjamin J. Grim (The Thing) returned to earth but found out that his friend and team-mate Johnny Storm (The Human Torch 2) had fallen in love with his girlfriend, Benjamin J. Grim (The Thing) quit The Fantastic Four, Scott Summers (Cyclops) marries an evil clone of Jean Grey named Madelyne Pryor and has a son named Nathan. 
1990-Benjamin J. Grim (The Thing) rejoins The Fantastic Four after a battle with the Mole-man, 
She-Hulk joins The Avengers (West-Coast), Secret Wars II, The Avengers discover that even though The Phoenix died Jean Greys body was unharmed so Jean Grey once revived rejoins her fellow X-men, Madelyne Pryor dies in a battle with the real Jean Grey. 
teen mutants: John Starsmore, Jubilation Lee, and Paige Guthrie all enroll at the Xavier institute for higher learning, Reed Richards and Sue Storm Richards son Franklin Richards is born. 
1991-. 
1992- Teen mutants: John Starsmore, Jubilation Lee, and Paige Guthrie all enroll at the Xavier institute for higher learning, Nathan Summers gets a Techno-Organic-virus and the only way to save him is time travel so Scott Summers (Cyclops) gave Nathan to Time Traveling Askani cult member who took him into the 30th century of an alternate future to deal with the virus. 


1993- Peter Parker (Spider-Man) marries Mary Jane Watson Mary Jane Watson adds Peter Parkers last name to her own, Sergei Kravenoff (Kraven the Hunter) commits suicide after failing to defeat Spider-Man, Mutant woman Elizabeth Braddock a.k.a. Psylocke joins the X men, Venom fights Spider-Man but is defeated Serial Killer Cletus Kassidy is thrown in prison. Cletus Kassidy is melded with the spawn of Venom and calls himself Carnage, 
Carnage escapes from prison and has a little crime-wave but is stopped by Spider-Man (Peter Parker) and thrown in RavenCloth Mental Hospital, Mutant Remey LeBeau a.k.a. Gambit joins the X-Men, Nathan Summers now known as Cable returns to the year 1993 to stop the rise of Apocalypse and after completing his mission he goes on to create and lead the X-Force, Harry Osborn (The Green Goblin 2) dies from the chemicals that gave him super-human powers the next day Carnage escapes from Ravencloth Mental Hospital and joins forces with Shriek, Doppelganger, and Demogoblin has a massive crime spree but is thwarted by Spider-Man teamed up with Captain America, Deathlock, Cloak and Dagger, Dazzler, and the forcible cooperation with the psychotic killer Venom, Carnage and his team are defeated 
(and Doppelganger is killed) and they are sent back to Ravencloth, Dum Dum Dugan briefly serves as director of operations for S.H.I.E.L.D. but Col. Nicholas Fury quickly took back the mantle. 
1994-Scott Summers (Cyclops) marries Jean Grey (Marvel Girl or Phoenix or Dark Phoenix). 
1995-Mary Jane Watson Parker is pregnant, Peter Parkers clone returns (The clone has now named himself Ben Rieley), Aunt May Parker dies, the Press dubbs Ben Rieley The Scarlet Spider, Peter Parker and Ben Rieley feud over who is the original and who is the clone, more clones emerge and they all feud, doctored lab reports convince Peter Parker that he is a clone so, Ben Rieley takes on the mantle of Spider-Man and Peter tries to be a family man with Mary Jane Watson Parker so Ben Rieley is now Spider Man(2). 
1996- (October 31) Mary Jane Watson and Peter Parkers baby is supposedly stillborn later that day Norman Osborn returns and tells Peter Parker that an hour after being killed by his glider the goblin formula brought him back to life he also reveals that he created all the clones of Spider-Man and that Peter Parker is the original spiderman and always was they battle and the confirmed clone Ben Rieley (Spider-Man 2 ) is killed saving Peter Parker from Norman Osborn (The Green Goblin)s glider device when Ben Rieley dies his body disintegrates revealing Peter Parker to be himself (the one true Spider-man) and revealing Ben Rieley to be a clone, a week later Peter Parker becomes Spider-Man again. 


1997- The Punisher and Microchip were a fighting an insane S.H.I.E.L.D. agent named Sudden Death when Microchip was supposedly killed by a rocket fired by Sudden Death Sudden Death is later killed by Shotgun after a long battle with Bullseye The Punisher is caught by Shotgun and taken in to S.H.I.E.L.D. custody While incarcerated The Punisher was brainwashed through hypnosis into believing that Col. Nicholas Fury was the man who killed his family which resulted in The Punisher killing Col. Nicholas Fury (Col. Nicholas Fury anticipated that The Punisher would try to kill him so he put a Life Model Decoy in his own place while he went on top secret S.H.I.E.L.D. missions) after this The Punisher was sentenced to death by the electric chair which he survived with the intervention of the Geraci crime family Not long after The Punisher joined the family in order to infiltrate their ranks and destroy them from within his arch-nemesis: Jigsaw with help from Tombstone along with Firefox and the Hatchetman destroyed the Geracis when their dying Don betrayed them in revenge The Punisher killed Jigsaw and Tombstone while letting Hatchetman escape, the Avengers are caught up in a battle with the psychic being known as Onslaught to defeat the villain the active members of the Avengers as well as their allies including the Fantastic Four and The Hulk seemingly sacrificed themselves to contain its energies as a result The Avengers along with the Fantastic Four and the Hulk were believed dead. 
1998- The Fantastic Four with The Avengers and The Hulk all return from an alternate reality created by tween Franklin Richards after 6 months and are all 10 years younger-(Franklin Richards saved his family The Fantastic Four and the Avengers as well as The Hulk from dying after jumping into a temporal rift to save NYC--instead Franklin Richards pulled them into a reality of his own design so they could recover.), Karen Page is murdered by Bullseye , Col. Nicholas Fury returns to S.H.I.E.L.D., Quinten Beck (Mysterieo1) commits suicide after a fight with Daredevil, Wilson Fisk (The Kingpin) is shot in the face and blinded by a woman named Maya Lopez (Echo), after a major battle The Punisher (Frank Castle) is overcome with guilt at the death of his family and he kills himself by shooting himself in the head, After a battle with Spider-Man (1) Carnage is put into suspended animation by the Silver Surfer, It is revealed that May Rieley never died and the woman who died was a spy so Spider-Man rescues her, 
1999- Mattie Franklin emerges as Spider-Woman (4), The Punisher (Frank Castle) is resurrected after a year of death by angels under the assumption that he will do the will of the angels in exchange for redemption The Punisher misses the good old fashioned punishment that he used to do- so he quits working for the angels. 


2000-Magneto (Eric Magnus Lenscherr) holds the Earth hostage and demands that the United Nations grant him a private island so he can make a mutant nation and the United Nations concede and meet his demands and Magnetos island is called Genosha, Sharon Carter is appointed by Col. Nicholas Fury as director of operations for S.H.I.E.L.D. Sharon Carter served while Col. Nicholas Fury personally investigated the death of agent David Ferrari During her time she faced AIM's latest weapon Protocide and the hijacking of the helicarrier by the Red Skull She also formed the Elite Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Orro Monroe (Storm), Rouge (real name unknown), Remey LeBeau (Gambit), Elizabeth Braddock (Psylocke), Tessa (Sage), and Lucas Bishop (Bishop) branch off and form the X-treme X-Men, X-Woman Elizabeth Braddock (Psylocke) dies in a battle, Mary Jane Watson Parker is supposedly killed in a plane explosion but she is really kidnaped by a telepathic Stalker, Frank Castle The Punisher moves into a small apartment and battles the Gnunicci crime family he reluctantly befriends his misfit neighbors: Joan The Mouse, Spacker Dave, and Mr. Bumpo after being mutilated by a trap set by The Punisher the head of the Gunicci crime family Ma Gunicci sends hit men to The Punishers apartment they find Spacker Dave and tourture him by ripping out all of his facial rings but after that The Punisher kills the hit-men after that Ma Gunicci send the unstoppable man-mountain professional killer The Russian to kill The Punisher The Russian and The Punisher battle long and hard but The Punisher kills The Russian by smothering him with the morbidly obese Mr. Bumpo and then promptly decapitating him  after that The Punisher kills Ma Gunicci and takes a suit case of mob money and gives it all to his neighbors at his apartment and leaves so they will no longer be in danger-Det. Martin Soap helps The Punisher in his quest to kill the Guniccis so The Punisher gives soap some incriminating photos of the mayor of NYC and the NYPD Commissioner as a way to shut Soap up Det. Soap blackmails the Mayor and Commissioner and then is given the job of Commissioner, Dr. Robert Bruce Banners wife Betty (Ross) Banner dies. 


2001- X-man Peter Rasputian a.k.a Colossus dies to cure the legacy virus, after being held prisoner for six months Mary Jane Watson Parker is found safe and alive by Spider-Man and the Stalker kills himself, Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson Parker separate due to Mary Jane Watsons emotional trauma of being held captive, (September 11) terrorists high-jack two commercial jets and crash them into the World Trade Center towers in New York City the towers are destroyed and nearly two-thousand innocent people are killed, Det. Martin Soap loses his position as commissioner of the NYPD, Peter Parker (Spider-Man 1) gets a teaching job at Midtown High-school Peter Parker meets a middle aged businessman named Ezekiel Sims who has the same powers as Peter Parker they become good friends and Ezekiel Sims helps Spider-Man (Ezekiel Sims knows Peter Parkers secret) fight an ancient demon known as Mourlon after a while Mourlon dies after a long battle with Spider-Man, Magneto (Eric Magnus Lenscherr) kidnaps Charles Xavier to use him as a rallying point for his armies in Genosha The X-Men tried to indirectly attack Magneto, and many believed them to be lost X-woman Jean Grey created a team of "interim" X-Men to confront Magneto directly as a misdirection tactic to allow the X-Men to free Charles Xavier but Magneto refused to accept defeat ( knowing the X-Men would not cross a moral line) Wolverine then stabbed Magneto in the chest and supposedly killed him The X-Men freed Charles Xavier and returned home, Captain America reveals his face to the general-public and he gives them his name is Steve Rogers, Cassandra Nova (Professor. Charles Xaviers twin sister) commits the bombing of Magnetos island Genosha in which 15 million mutants are killed, Genosha attack survivor Emma Frost (White Queen) joins the X-Men, Xorn (a mutant with healing powers) is rescued by the X-Men from an abandoned prison in China and in turn he joins the X-Men, Professor. Charles Xavier announces to the world (on national TV) that he is a mutant and his school is for mutants, Alex Summers comes back into our reality and out of his coma, May Parker learns the truth about Peter Parker (Spider-Man), John Starsmore a long time student at Xaviers school joins the X-Men after his girlfriend (British pop sensation) Sugar Cane admits that she cant date a mutant, mutant prostitute Stacey X joins the X-men, Xorn heals Professor. Charles Xaviers Spine and then Professor. Charles Xavier is able to walk again, X-Force has a new team of mutants who are reality TV stars later they call themselves X-Statix. 


2002- Valerie Richards is born (daughter of Reed and Sue Storm-Richards), Flash Thompson is left in a coma from a car crash created by Norman Osborn (The Green Goblin 1), Peter Parker and his aunt May Parker travel to Hollywood so Peter Parker can attempt to get his wife Mary Jane Watson Parker back when Peter Parker and his aunt reach the movie set he and Mary Jane Watson Parker talk and she goes of to get her make-up done for the movie she is in later that day Peter Parker discovers that Dr. Octopus is battling another villain who also has mechanical tentacles Spider-Man goes off and fights them both and he finds out that the other villain is a con- man named Carlyle who stole ideas form Dr. Octopus and left him to die the fight goes all the way to the movie set where Mary Jane Watson is acting and Carlyle takes the whole cast and crew hostage Carlyle is about to kill May Parker but Dr. Octopus stops him after that Spider-Man destroys Carlyles mechanical tentacles and Dr. Octopus gets away Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson Parker along with May Parker all have dinner together Mary Jane Watson Parker tells Peter Parker that she loves him but she still needs space after the visit Peter Parker and his Aunt May Parker go back to New York City a week later Ezekiel Sims helps Spider-Man fight the mystical huntress known as Shatra the spider-wasp and they bring the fight to south America where the defeat her with a horde of spiders in a mystical temple Peter Parker the boards a plane home his plane stops in Denver where he encounters Mary Jane Watson Parker the are about to talk but an assassination attempt against Dr. Doom ensues but it is foiled by when Peter Parker suits up as Spider-Man and Captain America who was there disguised as a security guard defeat the attackers and afterward on the same day Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson Parker talk about their problems admit how they need to be together and so they reconcile and move back into Peter Parkers apartment as a happy loving married couple, Sammy Slyke along with Richard Fisk stab Wilson Fisk to the brink of death Wilson Fisk is revived in a hospital and taken out of the country Vanessa Fisk kills her son Richard Fisk Sammy Slyke is beaten by Daredevil and left to the police, Sammy Slyke is arrested by the FBI and tells them that Matt Murdock is Daredevil a few days later Matt Murdock is on the cover of the Daily Globe and it says that he is Daredevil Wilson Fisk (The Kingpin) has his sense of sight restored in a hospital outside of the United States. 


2003- Digger is created in a gamma test from a group of mobsters murdered in Las Vegas in 1957 and dies in a battle with Spider-Man the next day Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson build the Gwen Stacey memorial library, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Daredevil (Matt Murdock), and Wolverine (Logan) team up to bring The Punisher (Frank Castle) to justice they battle him for two nights until he sics the Hulk on them (Frank Castle found Dr. Robert Bruce Banner as the prize at a criminal auction) the only person who is injured by the Hulk is Punisher stalker/fan Spacker DaveThe Punisher eludes the three heroes but is almost arrested by one of his sidekicks Det. Martin Soap but Soaps failure in also bringing The Punisher to justice leads him to quit the NYPD and become a Porn Star in L.A., Bobby Drake (Iceman) discovers he has a second mutation that is changing him into solid ice over time, Wilson Fisk (the Kingpin) tries to have a power struggle and sends Bullseye to kill Matt Murdock and his girlfriend Milla Donovan Matt Murdock suits up and fights Bullseye and lets the FBI arrest the bloody and beaten Bullseye minutes later Daredevil tracks down Wilson Fisk meeting with many other east coast crime-lords fights defeats him and after his victory Daredevil reveals himself to be Matt Murdock to the world and publically promises to protect Hells Kitchen, The X-Men defeat The Church of Humanity, (July 23) Matt Murdock marries his girlfriend Milla Donovan, Dr. Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic) is facially disfigured after a battle which leaves Dr. Doom trapped in hell, The Fantastic Four go to Dr. Dooms country Latveria to liberate it- while doing this they unintentionally make the American government angry-upon this doom escapes from hell and possesses The Thing (Benjamin J. Grimm) The Thing regains partial control of his body and begs for Mr. Fantastic (Reed Richards) to kill him with a laser rifle upon his request Mr. Fantastic fires the laser and kills The Thing along with Dr. Doom, Jessica Jones breaks up with boyfriend Scott Edward Lang (Ant-Man 2) when he hears that she is pregnant with Luke Cages baby Jessica Jones tells Luke Cage about her pregnancy with his child and he is happy so they move in together, X-man Xorn really turns out to be Magneto (Eric Magnus Lenscherr) in disguise and claims he faked healing Professor. Charles Xaviers spine by magnetically controlling micro-sentinels ( a microscopic version of Howard Trasks giant extermination robots this also explains how he was un-able to heal Scott Summers) also Magneto reveals that while he was masquerading as Xorn that he had recruited many young mutants from Xaviers school to join The Brotherhood of Mutants (In other word
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 06:40 pm    
By Marvel Jedi

Magneto did not die on his Island from the wound inflicted by Wolverine) The X-men battle Magneto who is reshaping New York City but when Wolverine is angered in the heat of battle he kills Magneto (Eric Magnus Lenscherr) by decapitating him with his claws-also during the battle X-Woman Jean Grey dies in the arms of her husband (Cyclops a.k.a. Scott Summers) from wounds inflicted in battle with Magneto, Professor Charles Xavier steps down from leading the X-Men and the Xavier Institute and works full time to restore the nation of Genosha -Scott Summers a.k.a. Cyclops and Emma Frost are left in Xaviers place to run the school and the X-Men. 


2004-6 weeks after the death of The Thing (Benjamin J. Grimm) the remaining Fantastic Four use Dr. Dooms inter-dimensional-projection-device to enter heaven in order to resurrect The Thing--they go to Heaven find the Thing and end up before God who restores The Things body and erases the scar on Mr. Fantastics faceThe Fantastic Four return to earth having brought the thing back to life, Dr. Octopus modifies his mechanical tentacles and kidnaps the Palestinian Foreign Minister and threatens to kill him unless Spider-Man publicly unmasks himself in Times Square (NYC) war breaks out in Israel (between Jews and Arabs) so Spider-Man goes to Times Square (but has a friend calling himself the Kiwi Kid rescue the Palestinian Foreign Minister) Spider-Man unmasks himself in front of Dr. Octopus only to reveal another mask Dr. Octopus is furious so he and Spider-Man battle their battle brings them to the sewers of Times Square where a lone cop follows them Spider-Man is almost about defeat Dr. Octopus but Dr. Octopus grabs hold of the cop Spider-Man tries to persuade Doctor Octopus to let the cop go but Dr. Octopus breaks the cop's neck right in front of Spider-Man after that Dr. Octopus attacks Spider-Man and before long Spider-Man is wrapped in one of Dr. Octopuss mechanical tentacles and completely at his mercy But Spider-Man refuses to give up and head-butts Doctor Octopus and then breaks a couple of his mechanical tentacles off Spider-Man then proceeds to pummel Dr. Octopus until Dr. Octopus begs Spider-Man not to kill him and Spider then proceeds to web Dr. Octopus up and leave him for the cops, (May 5) Avenger team-member Jack of Harts is killed in the line of duty, Ezekiel Sims turns out to be a villain and takes Spider-Man to South-America to be sacrificed so Ezekiel Sims can gain more Spider-power but feeling guilty Ezekiel Sims dies in Spider-Mans place and Spider-Man goes back home, The Punisher is captured by a rouge CIA agent Robert Bethels crewThe capture is done by The Punishers former sidekick David Linus Microchip Lieberman who was believed dead the mob breaks into the CIA hideout and in the mess The Punisher and Microchip escape Robert Bethel is killed by his own crew by order of homeland securityand when (on that same day) The Punisher learns that Microchip was dealing heroin The Punisher kills Microchip with a shotgun blast to the head, Bobby Drakes (Iceman) second mutation changes his entire body into ice permanently, Peter Parker, Luke Cage, Dr. Stephen Strange, and Dr. Reed Richards all meet with Matt Murdock in Central Park to tell him how he has made their lives difficult by outing himself as Daredevillater Matt Murdock is attacked in a rainstorm by one hundred armed Yakuza assassins a week after recovering from several stab and gunshot wounds he suits up as Daredevil again to fight off all of the Yakuza in Hells kitchen and he is aided by Spider-Man, Iron Fist, and Luke Cage after the heros have their victory Matt Murdock promises be Daredevil and to try to de out him self Matt Murdocks wife Milla Donovan leaves him because she finds out that he only married her because he had a nervus breakdown after the death of Karen Page, 


Spider-Man beats The Green Goblin to a pulp on national television (with cooperation from Jessica Jones and Ben Urich) and minutes later The Green Goblin a.k.a. Norman Osborn is arrested, Peter Parkers aunt May Parker is kidnaped by someone claiming to know that Peter Parker is Spider-Man Spider-Man searches the criminal underworld for his aunt and the criminal who took her The Owl tells Spider-Man that Electro and The Vulture kidnaped her for someone Spider-Man gets in a savage battle with Electro witch ends with Spider-Mans suit being ruined along with him falling off a small building and being rushed to the ER in the ER doctors remove Spider-Mans mask revealing him to be Peter Parker (thankfully no one knows who he is) while Peter Parker is recovering in the ICU the Vulture breaks in and kills the nurse protecting him Police rush in to help the unmasked and beaten Spider-Man from the Vulture but one officer has bad aim and shoots Peter Parker twice (once in the left wrist and once in the left shoulder) instead of the Vulture luckily The Black Cat saves Peter Parker a.k.a. Spider-Man and defeats the Vulture The Black Cat bandages up Peter Parker and leaves him at his and Mary Jane Watson Parkers apartment, Col. Nicholas Fury recruits: Matt Murdock (Daredevil), Peter Parker (Spider-Man), Logan (Wolverine), and Steve Rogers (Captain America) for a secret mission called Secret War, Captain America (6) (John F. Walker) along with: The Blazing Skull, Union Jack, The Human Torch (3), Spitfire, and Prince Namor The Submariner form The New Invaders, The Avengers are having break-fast when there is a security warning they look to see what is and it appears to be a zombie of Jack of Harts Ant-Man (2) a.k.a. Scott Edward Lang goes to investigate when the zombie explodes instantly killing Ant-Man (2) and destroying half of the Avengers Mansion a few hours later the rest of the Avengers arrive on the scene they notice an Avengers plane speeding towards them Captain America a.k.a. Steve Rogers notices that the pilot is Vison the plane crashes into the other half of the Avengers Mansion Vison gets out of the debris to warn the Avengers that their time is over after that statement Vison body falls apart killing him and out of his remains come pods that release five Ultron robots , Emma Frost and Scott Summers rebuild The Xavier Institute and create a new team of X Men (Cyclops (Scott Summers), White Queen (Emma Frost), Beast (Henry McCoy), Wolverine (Logan), Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner), Marvel Girl (2) (Rachel Summers), Storm (Orro Monroe), Lucas Bishop (Bishop), Gambit (Remey Le Beau), Rouge, Iceman (Bobby Drake), Juggernaut (Cain Marko), Archangel (Warren Worthington III), Shadowcat (Kitty Pryde), Husk (Paige Guthrie), John Starsmore (Chamber), Angel II (Joshua Guthrie) Havoc (Alex Summers), Polaris (Lorna Dane), Cannonball (Sam Guthrie), Sage (Tessa), and Jubilation Lee), one of Remey Le Beau a.k.a. Gambits cards explode in his face and blinds him, Professor. Charles Xavier meets Magneto (Eric Magnus Lenscherr) who is alive and well on Genosha it is revealed that the man who masqueraded as Xorn was not Magneto but a Magneto imposter Professor. Charles Xavier and Magneto have a friendly discussion over tea when Professor. Charles Xavier brings up the fact the Magneto-imposter killed Jean Grey along with eighteen-hundred innocent people in New York City when Magneto learns of this he is shocked and disgusted at the evil of his imposter.
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 07:00 pm    
By SPIDERFAN007

This is a pretty good timeline. I think you should take look at this web page http://www.geocities.com/jjnevins/wicks1.html It has some prehistory stuff you should add.
_________________
"HAIL TO THE KING BABY!" 
"SNOOGANS" 
"PUNISHMENT"

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 07:55 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Hey, Marvel Jedi. 

I see you have the year 2003 as the current year instead of 2004. Why was 2003 chosen as the present? Was it done last year? How do you reconcile the quicker passage of real time than Marvel time? Will the timeline keep sliding forward, with a longer and longer gap occurring between Golden Age and Silver Age adventures? Inquiring minds want to know.  

BTW, your estimate of 18 years since FF 1 is much closer to my 21-year estimate than most other folks' calculations.  

For the last couple of years' worth of chronology, stay tuned...the calendar cometh, Russ willing.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 08:20 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Marvel Jedi wrote: 
>>>
some text is borrowd but it's mainly mine: -All events in the time line are universe 616 canon. 
<<<


I'd feel better if you'd share where the borrowed text is borrowed from. 


watching: law and order

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Posted: 08 Jul 2004 12:29 pm    
By Marvel Jedi

The current year is 2004 look. 

Spider-fan007 is ma' home boy the link is where i borrowed some stuff from, it was only PRE-history.
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 08 Jul 2004 10:14 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
The current year is 2004 look.  


Ah, two posts, one message. That means you've got 19 years since FF 1 -- even better.  

Still, you haven't answered those other questions. Is this timeline a sliding one from the Silver Age on?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 09 Jul 2004 07:35 am    
By Marvel Jedi

What do u mean by a "Sliding" timeline, yes I put the 60's in the 80's is that what you meant?
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 09 Jul 2004 01:14 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

I think he means where will you put the sixties, ten years from now? 


watching: live from

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Posted: 09 Jul 2004 04:00 pm    
By Marvel Jedi

in ten years marvel could make peter parker 44! as for the future I am not sure.
_________________
-snoogans!

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Thread 16

Posted: 10 Jul 2004 07:35 pm    Post subject: Warnings in an entry? Jean Grey
By Enda80

"GOBLIN QUEEN/MADELYNE "MADDIE" JENNIFER PRYOR SUMMERS 
Caution: See also: Grey, Jean | Earth-998 
A@10" 

As I vaguely recall from past posts on the old board, wasn't that alternate Jean Grey actually not native to Earth-998? 

Also, the Maddy Pryor in Avengers Annual#10 was just a little girl, right? Other than an odd reuse of the name of a folk rock singer by Claremont, I don't recall any link.

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Posted: 10 Jul 2004 08:22 pm    
By Dhall

Quote: 
>>>
Also, the Maddy Pryor in Avengers Annual#10 was just a little girl, right? 
<<<


reread Claremont's early Genosha X-Men stories if you want to see the link. Maddy has the memory of the girl "I was sick but now I'm better" therfore she is the girl (being a clone and such explains the whole aging thing...) 

Dave H

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Posted: 10 Jul 2004 11:19 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

In an interview, Claremont actually tried to distance the two characters. However, what's in the books holds precedence over industry interviews. 


watching: larry king

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Thread 17

Posted: 09 Jul 2004 05:50 pm    Post subject: Counter-Earth Question; when created?
By Enda80

When was the High Evolutionary's Counter Earth created? I know two things that might be relevant. 

Spectacular Spider-Man Annual#8 does show the creation of Counter-Earth; and places it after the events of Thor I#134, the first published appearance of the High Evolutionary. 

The big problem; The Necromancer claimed to have been behind the scenes in Strange Tales#138 when the true Doctor Strange first met Eternity. Strange Tales#138 was published in 11/1965; the first appearance of the High Evolutionary was in Thor I#134, published in November 1966! Unless I miss my mark, the High Evolutionary did not create Counter Earth until well after his first handful of appearances. 
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/necroman.htm 

By the way, a small nit about the High Evolutionary; not all of the Saga of the High Evolutionary back-ups showed events preceding his intro in Thor. In fact, some of them just retold modern era stories.

Last edited by Enda80 on 10 Jul 2004 04:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 09 Jul 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: To Eternity and beyond!!!
By DonCampbell

This is just my opinion but I believe that the publication order is and should remain the proper chronological order for the High Evolutionary's activities. In other words, the High Evolutionary created Counter-Earth some time AFTER his first appearance in THOR. As I recall, it wasn't until after that first appearance that he left Earth seeking a new world on which to continue his experiments and, after being evolved into a being of pure energy, eventually ended up creating Counter-Earth. 

As for the Necromancer (aka the Doctor Strange of Counter-Earth), I have to say that I for one never really believed his claim that he encountered Eternity before the Doctor Strange of Marvel-Earth did. Part of it was because I also tracked down the publication dates of the relevant issues but there was another piece of evidence. According to my (reprinted) story from Strange Tales #138, when Strange first stood before Eternity, the cosmic being had this to say: "I am Eternity! Heed my message and remain silent! For none may speak when I am present! You are the second mortal to stand before me! The first was he whom you serve...known to you as the Ancient One! It was to him I gave the magic amulet, and the power it contains!" It seems to me that if the Necromancer had somehow arrived there first, then our Strange would have been the third mortal to stand before Eternity. Personally, I'd trust Eternity a lot more than an evil-doer like the Necromancer. 

As for why the Necromancer made that (obviously false) claim, I can think of two reasons - either he was lying or he was delusional. If he was lying, it was because he was trying to bluff his counterpart into believing that he was the stronger sorcerer. If he was delusional, it was because he was so arrogant that he couldn't accept that fact that he was essentially a copy of the original Stephen Strange and so his mind revised his memories a bit so that he believed that he had reached Eternity first. I assume that the reason that he was able to "remember" things that happened before he was pulled inside Eternity was because those memories were somehow absorbed from Eternity itself. 



Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
By the way, a small nit about the High Evolutionary; not all of the Saga of the High Evolutionary back-ups showed events preceding his intro in Thor. In fact, some of them just retold modern era stories. 
<<<


I don't see the problem with this. It was my understanding that the purpose of the whole Saga of the High Evolutionary was to provide a complete history of his life and activities leading up to the Evolutionary War storyline. So while the first chapters revealed previously-unknown details about his life (like his name and how he first got involved with evolving animals), the later chapters summarized his modern era stories to show what caused him to develop his agenda of evolving all of mankind into superior beings. 

Don Campbell

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Posted: 10 Jul 2004 04:21 am    Post subject: The problem
By Enda80

The reason I brought up the fact that not all of the Saga of the High Evolutionary back-ups detailed stories set before the High Ev's first appearance is the following excerpt from the Evoltionary's Chronology: 

H2 149-FB 
WCA@ 3/3-FB 
PPTSS@ 8/3-FB 
H2 266-FB 
A@ 17/2-FB 
XF@ 3-FB 
T 478-FB 
{T 134} 

West Coast Avengers Annual#3/3 just retells the High Evolutionary's first appearance, Peter Parker Annual#8 (as noted) only retells the creation of Counter Earth, and Avengers Annual#17 only retells the theft of Counter Earth and Hulk#266. While some new scenes were shown, all of the events of these chapters took place well after the Thor I#134 story.

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Posted: 10 Jul 2004 04:27 am    Post subject: Jean-Marc Lofficier responds
By Enda80

I actually asked Jean-Marc Lofficier (co-writer of the story) about this. He said: 

To quote Groo: Did I err? Methings we may have goofed.

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Posted: 10 Jul 2004 11:32 am    
By DonCampbell

Sorry, it seems that I completely missed your point. I thought that you were just irked because not all of the Saga of the High Evolutionary back-ups were made up of completely new information. Now that you've included that excerpt from the HE's MCP listing, it's clear that you're right that some of those flashbacks in his chronology should NOT be placed prior to THOR 134. 

Sorry I misunderstood the first time around. 

Don Campbell

Last edited by DonCampbell on 11 Jul 2004 06:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 11 Jul 2004 06:28 pm    Post subject: The Creation of Counter-Earth
By DonCampbell

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
When was the High Evolutionary's Counter Earth created? I know two things that might be relevant. 

Spectacular Spider-Man Annual#8 does show the creation of Counter-Earth; and places it after the events of Thor I#134, the first published appearance of the High Evolutionary. 
<<<


The creation of Counter-Earth by the High Evolutionary was shown in MARVEL PREMIERE #1 (April, 1972). The creation was shown happening in the "present" time, not in a flashback, and it only took "a mere sevenscore of hours." Also, the High Evolutionary recalled his past adventures: how he and Thor battled the Man-Beast in THOR #134-135 (November-December, 1966), how he and his New-Men left Earth for a distant planet, and how he was forced to evolve himself into an immortal being when they turned against him in TALES TO ASTONISH #94-96 (August-October, 1967). After spending an unspecified time being one with the cosmos, he returned to a physical existence and then spent "months" traversing space to return to Earth. Once in Earth orbit, he encountered the cocoon of Him who mentioned that his last visit to Earth had ended with Him fleeing from an enraged Thor in THOR #165 (June, 1969). 

Don Campbell

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Thread 18

Posted: 11 Jul 2004 08:21 pm    Post subject: Immortus/Living Tribunal in WI 32; cameo
By Enda80

Immortus has an odd cameo in WI 32. He observes (in Limbo, so this is not an alternate counterpart of Immortus) as Korvac closes off his alternate Earth from time-travellers. 

I am placing this before T-281-BTS, as this story diverged from A 177, which takes place before T 281 in Thor's chronology. Any disagreements? 

A 142 
A@ 21/4-FB 
A 200-FB 
A:TO 2 
A:TO 3 
**WI 32 
T 281-BTS 
T 282 

The Living Tribunal is also in that issue, and he is of course unique in the multiverse. I know he shows up in WI? 6; anyone know of any other WI appearances for the Living Tribunal? 

LIVING TRIBUNAL 
ST 157/2 
ST 158/2 
ST 160/2 
ST 163/2 
** WI? 32 
ROM 41 
SWII 6 
MEPHV. 4

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Thread 19

Posted: 02 Jul 2004 05:53 am    Post subject: Powerless
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Now that POWERLESS #1 has come out, it raises the possibility that this book might actually be canon after all. 

It's set in a world where nobody's got powers. But the writers spend the entire issue beating us over the head with the idea that this is Clearly Wrong, that all is Not Right, and generally dropping huge great clanging hints that this is the real Marvel Universe, transformed by some kind of cosmic accident. There are repeated flashbacks to a horde of superheroes fighting Galactus in New York, in what the lead character believes to be a dream scene. All of his psychiatry patients are Marvel heroes, and he can't place why the names seem so familiar. And so on. 

No doubt things will become clearer as the book moves on, but it's worth flagging up that this is not simply the "alternate world without powers" idea that the solicitations described. The link to the real Marvel Universe is much more explicit than that.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 06 Jul 2004 11:01 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Great. 

"Powerless" is advertised as not having a connection to the real Marvel Universe, and now it apparently does. 

"1602" is advertised as having a real connection to the main stream Marvel Universe, and apparently it doesn't. 

Soooo...Marvel, what's going on here? 
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 05:17 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

1602 does have a connection to the Marvel Universe. It's got the Watcher in it.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 11:00 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

But we were led to believe that there was more to it than that, (of I was at least...of course, I could be mistaken). For all intents and purposes, this has as much impact as one of the Watcher's stories in the "What if" title...which I think we've ruled the scenes with the Watcher as being canon, but nothing else...
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

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Posted: 08 Jul 2004 03:20 pm    
By Dhall

For "What If?" Wouldn't the non-watcher scenes be considered alternate-universe canon, rather than non-canon? Granted, any particular what if universe is unlikely to ever be revisted, so there wouldn't be much point in putting non-watcher characters from these into the MCP, but still..... 

Dave H

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Posted: 12 Jul 2004 11:35 am    
By Marvel Jedi

is 1602 alternate universe canon like Earth X and what if or is it Niel Gaimen marvel scratching post.
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 12 Jul 2004 01:41 pm    
By Dhall

The Watcher of our Marvel universe appears. This makes it kind of like a "What if?" except that the 1602-verse is put into a portable container and given to our Watcher.

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Thread 20

Posted: 13 Jul 2004 10:06 am    Post subject: Havok
By captamr

Classic X-Men #5 adds two new pages to the mythos which is UX 97, involving Eric the Red, Cyclops, and especially Havok. CX 5 is included in all but only Havok appears in both the new pages (6 and 12) requiring a second appearance for his presence in the second new page: 

Havok/ Alex Summers 

UX 94 
UX 97 
CX 5 
UX 97 
**CX 5 
**UX 97 
UX 104 - FB
_________________
Charlie

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Thread 21

Posted: 13 Jul 2004 07:58 pm    Post subject: X-Men character corrections
By SeanCurtin

Omega Red's first two chronological appearances are out of order; the flashback in MAV features him in the military and subsequently becoming Omega Red, while the one in GENX features him as a civilian and should thus come first. 

Gambit and Sabretooth's appearances in the flashback in X 33 need to be moved to a much earlier point in their chronologies, as Gambit is a much younger man and this is apparently their first meeting (in other words, before the Mutant Massacre). For Gambit, it should occur before X 8-FB and after GAM3 6 (not if it should be before or after GAM3 23-FB). For Sabretooth, my best guess is that it should occur between W2 126-FB-BTS and CX 10/2-BTS. 

-Sean

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Thread 22

Posted: 14 Jul 2004 01:05 am    Post subject: Error in Death sequence
By Jopili

The wrong sequence: 
... 
S-M 17 
IG 1 
Q 25 
IG 2 
... 
The right sequence: 
... 
S-M 17 
Q 25 
IG 1 
IG 2 
... 
In IG 1 Sersi disappears (Thanos kills half the population of the universe). So she can't be guest star in Q 25.

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Thread 23

Posted: 14 Jul 2004 07:11 pm    Post subject: Nick Fury error
By SeanCurtin

Nick Fury's {first appearance} is listed as FF 21 (December '63) instead of SGTF 1 (May '63). 

-Sean

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Posted: 14 Jul 2004 07:32 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Sean, I've moved this to Marvel Universe, since it's entirely appropriate for the main forum. Bug Reports are usually for pages that are chopped off in the middle, bad links, etc. 


watching: smallville

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Thread 24

Posted: 14 Jul 2004 09:43 pm    Post subject: Mister Hyde
By captamr

Mister Hyde is left defeated in the Avengers mansion basement in #276. Thor and Captain America then move to the first floor and the battle resumes with Goliath and the Wrecking Crew. The battle continues and concludes in # 277 but with no appearance by Mister Hyde: 

Mister Hyde/ Calvin Zabo 

A 276 
A 277* - omit 
IM 228
_________________
Charlie

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Thread 25

Posted: 15 Jul 2004 07:53 pm    Post subject: The Omniverse???
By SPIDERFAN007

I was browsing www.marvunapp.com Which is The Appendix To The Handbook Of The Marvel Universe, and I came across this little bit of info: 
Omniverse 

A Universe is a single dimension reality, such as Earth-616, the mainstream Marvel Universe. 
Uni - "one" 
The Multiverse is the collection of alternate dimensions with a similar nature and universal hierarchy. Earth-616, pretty much all of the What If? worlds, and the vast bulk of the alternate Earths seen in the MU (which include beings like the Watcher, Eternity, etc) are within the same Multiverse. The myriad realms of Earth-616's Multiverse are overseen by the Living Tribunal. Those realms that lack this hierarchy of power are outside of the Multiverse, but within the larger Omniverse. 
Multi - "many" 
The Omniverse is the collection of every single universe, dimension, etc. This includes the real world (right outside of your window--get out of your parent's basements and check it out!!), but it also includes every single universe, realm, etc., every mentioned in any of Marvel Comics, as well as those from DC, Image, Dark Horse, etc. It includes every single literary, television show, movie, urban legend, whatever universe/realm ever. It includes everyone from Popeye to Rocky Balboa to Ronald Reagan to Romeo and Juliet to Luke Skywalker to Snoopy to Jay and Silent Bob, etc. 
EVERYTHING is in the Omniverse, and there is only one Omniverse. Period. The End. 
Omni - "all" 
The above classification system was devised (at least in part) by Mark Gruenwald. However, it does seem to be missing one element. We have coined the term Megaverse to include realms associated with a particular line of comics, etc., but outside of the Multiverse. This would include such realms as the New Universe, Earth-Shadowline, etc. These realms lack the cosmic beings of the mainstream Multiverse, yet they are still more closely tied to other Marvel Universes than those of other comic lines (such as DC). Thus they are included within the Marvel Megaverse. 
Mega - "big" (used to imply a larger grouping than the Multiverse).
_________________
"HAIL TO THE KING BABY!" 
"SNOOGANS" 
"PUNISHMENT"

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Posted: 15 Jul 2004 08:42 pm    
By SPIDERFAN007

Does The Omniverse exist? Is it true that EVERYTHING is Canon? I couldn't sleep all night! Are we in a way Canon??????????
_________________
"HAIL TO THE KING BABY!" 
"SNOOGANS" 
"PUNISHMENT"

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Posted: 15 Jul 2004 09:32 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Are we in a way Canon?????????? 
<<<


Now don't go metaphysical on us, Spiderfan007. Everyone knows that in our real world, William Conrad is Canon. 
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 25

Posted: 26 Apr 2004 09:57 pm    Post subject: Marvel characters in the Ultraverse
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Picking up from the "Intercompany Crossovers" thread, I thought it would be helpful to identify all Ultraverse (Malibu/Marvel) comics that feature characters who originated in the M.U. I'm sure this is only a partial list, based on my incomplete collection, but it's a place to start. Feel free to add more or correct any errors. 

ALL NEW EXILES #8 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL NEW EXILES #1 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #2 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #3 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #4 
Juggernaut 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 
ALL NEW EXILES #5 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
Juggernaut 
ALL NEW EXILES #6 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #7 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #8 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #9 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #10 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #11 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

AVENGERS/ULTRAFORCE #1 
Black Knight III 
Black Widow II 
Captain America 
Crystal 
Grandmaster 
Iron Man 
Loki 
Sersi 
Starfox 
Thor 
Vision 

ELIMINATOR #3 
Sersi 

EXILES VS. X-MEN #0 
Beast 
Gambit 
Gateway 
Iceman 
Juggernaut 
Professor X 
Phoenix IV 
Reaper 
Rogue 
Siena Blaze 
Storm 

FOXFIRE #1 
Black Knight III 
FOXFIRE #2 
Black Knight III 
FOXFIRE #3 
Punisher 
FOXFIRE #4 
Punisher 

HARDCASE #23 
Loki 

MANTRA #22 
Loki 

MANTRA v2 #2/2 
Gateway 

NECROMANTRA/LORD PUMPKIN #4 
Loki 

NIGHT MAN #22 
Loki 

NIGHT MAN v2 #2/2 
Hellstorm 

NIGHT MAN/GAMBIT #1 
Candra 
Gambit 
NIGHT MAN/GAMBIT #2 
Candra 
Gambit 
NIGHT MAN/GAMBIT #3 
Candra 
Gambit 

NIGHT MAN VS. WOLVERINE #0 
Arcade 
Wolverine 

PHOENIX RESURRECTION #0 
Gateway 
Jubilee 

PHOENIX RESURRECTION: GENESIS #1 
Banshee 
Beast 
Bishop 
Black Knight III 
Dr. Spectrum 
Gateway 
Hyperion 
Jubilee 
Juggernaut 
Phoenix II 
Power Princess 
Rogue 
Storm 
Whizzer II 
Wolverine 

PHOENIX RESURRECTION: REVELATIONS #1 
Banshee 
Beast 
Bishop 
Black Knight III 
Gateway 
Jubilee 
Juggernaut 
Phoenix II 
Reaper 
Rogue 
Siena Blaze 
Storm 
Wolverine 

PRIME v2 #8 
Lizard 
Spider-Man 
PRIME v2 #1 
Lizard 
PRIME v2 #2 
Lizard 
PRIME v2 #2/2 
Gateway 

PRIME/CAPTAIN AMERICA #1 
Captain America 

PRIME VS. HULK #0 
Hulk 
Spider-Man 

RUNE v2 #8 
Annihilus 
Adam Warlock 
RUNE v2 #1 
Annihilus 
Warlock, Adam 
RUNE v2 #2/2 
Beast 
Storm 
Wolverine 
RUNE v2 #3 
Warlock, Adam 
RUNE v2 #6 
Warlock, Adam 
RUNE v2 #7 
Warlock, Adam 

RUNE VS. VENOM #1 
Dugan, Dum Dum 
Venom 

SIREN #1 
Diamondback 
Dr. Spectrum 
Hyperion 
Taskmaster 
War Machine 
SIREN #2 
Diamondback 
Power Princess 
Taskmaster 
War Machine 
Whizzer II 
SIREN #2/2 
Beast 
Whizzer II 
SIREN #3 
Diamondback 
Taskmaster 
Whizzer II 

SIREN SPECIAL #1 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

ULTRAFORCE #8 
Black Knight III 
Sersi 
ULTRAFORCE #9 
Black Knight III 
Sersi 
ULTRAFORCE #10 
Black Knight III 
Loki 
Luna 
Marilla 
Sersi 
ULTRAFORCE #11 
Black Knight III 
Loki 
Sersi 

ULTRAFORCE v2 #8 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #1 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #2/2 
Black Knight III 
Spider-Man 
Thor 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #4 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #5 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #6 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #7 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #8 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #9 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #10 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #11 
Black Knight III 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #12 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 

ULTRAFORCE/AVENGERS #1 
Grandmaster 
Sersi 
Loki 
Captain America 
Thor 
Vision 
Black Widow II 
Crystal 
Starfox 
Iron Man 
Black Knight III 
Quicksilver 

ULTRAFORCE/SPIDER-MAN #1 
Spider-Man 
Black Knight III 
Green Goblin IV 

ULTRAVERSE UNLIMITED #1 
Warlock, Adam 
ULTRAVERSE UNLIMITED #2 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 26 Apr 2004 10:24 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

UltraForce/Spider-Man is a two-issue series -- #1A and #1B -- with the same beginning and end in each issue, but a different middle section. And that's Spider-Man II appearing there, not the original. 

Also, it's Spider-Man II in UltraForce v2 #2/2. 

By the way, I see you have UltraForce (v1) #11 listed ... over in the "intercompany crossover" list, someone mentioned that this issue didn't technically exist -- that its official title is "UltraForce/Avengers Prelude". Can you confirm, or deny, that UltraForce #11 is a separate issue from the Prelude? 

There's a "Black September: Infinity" comic out there too -- and, according to Mile High Comics, a Black September: Genesis and Black September Preview book as well. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 27 Apr 2004 06:31 am    Post subject: Ultraforce/Avengers Prelude
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
By the way, I see you have UltraForce (v1) #11 listed ... over in the "intercompany crossover" list, someone mentioned that this issue didn't technically exist -- that its official title is "UltraForce/Avengers Prelude". Can you confirm, or deny, that UltraForce #11 is a separate issue from the Prelude?  
<<<


Ultraforce vol. 1 #11 is the SAME comic that is noted as "Ultraverse Prelude: Ultraforce/Avengers #1" on the cover and "Ultraforce/Avengers Prelude vol. 1, number 11" on the indicia. It is dated "July 1995." 


Quote: 
>>>
There's a "Black September: Infinity" comic out there too -- and, according to Mile High Comics, a Black September: Genesis and Black September Preview book as well.  
<<<


I have Black September: Infinity. I didn't list it because I don't believe any MU characters appear in it. I never heard about the other Black September books you mention.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 27 Apr 2004 02:09 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Ultraforce vol. 1 #11 is the SAME comic that is noted as "Ultraverse Prelude: Ultraforce/Avengers #1" on the cover and "Ultraforce/Avengers Prelude vol. 1, number 11" on the indicia. It is dated "July 1995." 
<<<

I'd say the official title of that book, then, is "UltraForce/Avengers Prelude", rather than "UltraForce #11". 

Quote: 
>>>
I have Black September: Infinity. I didn't list it because I don't believe any MU characters appear in it. 
<<<

According to the Juggernaut's biography thread at ComiX-Fan, he does appear in it. Can you confirm or deny that? 

Quote: 
>>>
I never heard about the other Black September books you mention. 
<<<

Well, Mile High Comics is notorious for listing books that don't exist -- but I thought I'd mention them anyway, just in case. I'll do a little more digging and see if they were ever published. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 27 Apr 2004 06:15 pm    Post subject: Marvel characters in Black September Infinity
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
According to the Juggernaut's biography thread at ComiX-Fan, he does appear in it. Can you confirm or deny that?  
<<<


Yes and no. Juggernaut does appear in one panel, but it's on a page that shows a montage of scenes from the other Infinity books. In Juggie's case (and Siena Blaze's and Reaper's as well), the scene would be from All New Exiles Infinity. Black Knight III is here too, in a scene from Ultraforce Infinity, and Spider-Man and the Lizard are there from Prime Infinity. I'm not sure that these constitute original appearances.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 28 Apr 2004 12:15 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Not that I don't believe you, Paul, but can you confirm this for me? Can you check BS:I side-by-side with ANE:I and make sure that the Black September issue doesn't contain a Juggernaut scene that's different -- even SLIGHTLY different -- from his scenes in Exiles Infinity? 

Heh. "BS". I'd love to have this issue in the MCP just for that. I haven't giggled that much since Special Edition X-Men...  

-Jeph!

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Posted: 28 Apr 2004 11:34 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Heh. "BS". I'd love to have this issue in the MCP just for that. I haven't giggled that much since Special Edition X-Men...  
<<<


What about Sabretooth and Mystique? 


watching: larry king

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Posted: 28 Apr 2004 11:52 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Sorry, fella -- I like you a lot, and all, but I'm just not into that.  

-Jeph!

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Posted: 29 Apr 2004 07:54 am    
By Dormammu

Hello. This is my first post here. 
You guys are doing a wonderful job! 

I remember seeing Thor in the last issue of Godwheel miniseries (issue #3) and Silver Surfer in Rune/Silver Surfer one shot.

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Posted: 29 Apr 2004 01:09 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I thought "Godwheel" ran four issues. 

Back to dirty MCP acronyms -- "X-Treme X-Men X-Pose", anyone? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 29 Apr 2004 10:23 pm    Post subject: Revised List
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Ahem...okay, back to the topic at hand. I did have a chance to look at the Infinity issues I do have and am able to plug scenes from the "montage" page of Black September into slots in the Infinity books. As it turns out, none of the panels on that page exactly duplicate any scene I've found  and some may even qualify as "symbolic splash panels." And the scenes don't necessarily occur at the same moment. Here goes... 


BLACK SEPTEMBER INFINITY, Page 30 

Panel 1 
Spider-Man, Lizard, and Prime between pages 14 and 15 of Prime Infinity. 

Panel 2 
Prototype, Prime, and Topaz (likely with Black Knight III and Ghoul just off-panel) between pages 20 and 21 of Ultraforce Infinity. 

Panel 3 
Adam Warlock and Rune in a scene that doesnt fit the storyline in Rune Infinity. Symbolic splash? 

Panel 4 
Night Man right after Night Man Infinity. 

Panel 5 
Diamondback and Siren, with Taskmasters head looming large behind them (symbolic?) somewhere in Siren Infinity. Symbolic splash? 

Panel 6 
Juggernaut, Reaper, Blaze, Amber Hunt, and Shuriken (with Siena Blaze just off-panel) between panels 3 and 4 of page 19 of All New Exiles Infinity. 

Panel 7 
Mantra and some green creature somewhere in Mantra Infinity. 


Anyhow, I've added this to the list, and a few early appearances I missed. Here's the amended list... 

ALL NEW EXILES #8 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL NEW EXILES #1 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #2 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #3 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #4 
Juggernaut 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 
ALL NEW EXILES #5 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
Juggernaut 
ALL NEW EXILES #6 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #7 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #8 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #9 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #10 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #11 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

AVENGERS/ULTRAFORCE #1 
Black Knight III 
Black Widow II 
Captain America 
Crystal 
Grandmaster 
Iron Man 
Loki 
Sersi 
Starfox 
Thor 
Vision 

BLACK SEPTEMBER #8 
Diamondback 
Juggernaut 
Lizard 
Reaper 
Spider-Man 
Warlock, Adam 

CURSE OF RUNE #4 
Gemini III 

ELIMINATOR #3 
Sersi 

EXILES VS. X-MEN #0 
Beast 
Gambit 
Gateway 
Iceman 
Juggernaut 
Professor X 
Phoenix IV 
Reaper 
Rogue 
Siena Blaze 
Storm 

FOXFIRE #1 
Black Knight III 
FOXFIRE #2 
Black Knight III 
FOXFIRE #3 
Punisher 
FOXFIRE #4 
Punisher 

GODWHEEL #1 
Thor 
GODWHEEL #3 
Loki 
Thor 

HARDCASE #23 
Loki 

MANTRA #22 
Loki 
MANTRA v2 #2/2 
Gateway 

NECROMANTRA/LORD PUMPKIN #4 
Loki 

NIGHT MAN #22 
Loki 
NIGHT MAN v2 #2/2 
Hellstorm 

NIGHT MAN/GAMBIT #1 
Candra 
Gambit 
NIGHT MAN/GAMBIT #2 
Candra 
Gambit 
NIGHT MAN/GAMBIT #3 
Candra 
Gambit 

NIGHT MAN VS. WOLVERINE #0 
Arcade 
Wolverine 

PHOENIX RESURRECTION #0 
Gateway 
Jubilee 

PHOENIX RESURRECTION: GENESIS #1 
Banshee 
Beast 
Bishop 
Black Knight III 
Dr. Spectrum 
Gateway 
Hyperion 
Jubilee 
Juggernaut 
Phoenix II 
Power Princess 
Rogue 
Storm 
Whizzer II 
Wolverine 

PHOENIX RESURRECTION: REVELATIONS #1 
Banshee 
Beast 
Bishop 
Black Knight III 
Gateway 
Jubilee 
Juggernaut 
Phoenix II 
Reaper 
Rogue 
Siena Blaze 
Storm 
Wolverine 

PRIME v2 #8 
Lizard 
Spider-Man 
PRIME v2 #1 
Lizard 
PRIME v2 #2 
Lizard 
PRIME v2 #2/2 
Gateway 

PRIME/CAPTAIN AMERICA #1 
Captain America 

PRIME VS. HULK #0 
Hulk 
Spider-Man 

RUNE v2 #8 
Annihilus 
Adam Warlock 
RUNE v2 #1 
Annihilus 
Warlock, Adam 
RUNE v2 #2/2 
Beast 
Storm 
Wolverine 
RUNE v2 #3 
Warlock, Adam 
RUNE v2 #6 
Warlock, Adam 
RUNE v2 #7 
Warlock, Adam 

RUNE/SILVER SURFER #1 
Drax the Destroyer 
Deathurge 
Gamora 
Living Tribunal 
Maxam 
Moondragon 
Pip 
Thanos 
Thor 
Warlock, Adam 

RUNE VS. VENOM #1 
Dugan, Dum Dum 
Venom 

SIREN #8 
Diamondback 
Taskmaster 
SIREN #1 
Diamondback 
Dr. Spectrum 
Hyperion 
Taskmaster 
War Machine 
SIREN #2 
Diamondback 
Power Princess 
Taskmaster 
War Machine 
Whizzer II 
SIREN #2/2 
Beast 
Whizzer II 
SIREN #3 
Diamondback 
Taskmaster 
Whizzer II 

SIREN SPECIAL #1 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

ULTRAFORCE #8 
Black Knight III 
Sersi 
ULTRAFORCE #9 
Black Knight III 
Sersi 
ULTRAFORCE #10 
Black Knight III 
Loki 
Luna 
Marilla 
Sersi 
ULTRAFORCE #11 (ULTRAFORCE/AVENGERS PRELUDE) 
Black Knight III 
Loki 
Sersi 

ULTRAFORCE v2 #8 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #1 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #2/2 
Black Knight III 
Spider-Man 
Thor 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #4 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #5 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #6 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #7 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #8 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #9 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #10 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #11 
Black Knight III 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #12 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

ULTRAFORCE/AVENGERS #1 
Black Knight III 
Black Widow II 
Captain America 
Crystal 
Grandmaster 
Iron Man 
Loki 
Quicksilver 
Sersi 
Starfox 
Thor 
Vision 

ULTRAFORCE/SPIDER-MAN #1 
Black Knight III 
Green Goblin IV 
Spider-Man 

ULTRAVERSE UNLIMITED #1 
Warlock, Adam 
ULTRAVERSE UNLIMITED #2 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 29 Apr 2004 11:00 pm    
By Andy Holcombe

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
I thought "Godwheel" ran four issues. 
<<<


#0-3, I believe. Plus the Warstrike: Prelude to Godwheel issue.

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Posted: 29 Apr 2004 11:10 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Thanks for the notes on BS:(infinity symbol), Paul. 

By the way -- you still didn't note that it's Spider-Man II -- Ben Reilly -- in both UltraForce v2 #2/2 and UltraForce/Spider-Man. Also, you didn't note that there are TWO UltraForce/Spider-Man issues -- #1A and #1B -- both with different content. Chronologically the Marvel appearances break down like this: 

ULTRAFORCE/SPIDER-MAN #1A ~ #1B (duplicate content, chapter one) 
Black Knight III 
Green Goblin IV 
Spider-Man II 

ULTRAFORCE/SPIDER-MAN #1A (chapter two) 
Black Knight III 
Green Goblin IV 

ULTRAFORCE/SPIDER-MAN #1B (chapter two) 
Spider-Man II 

ULTRAFORCE/SPIDER-MAN #1A ~ #1B (duplicate content, chapter three) 
Black Knight III 
Green Goblin IV 
Spider-Man II 

Finally, in Night Man v2 #2/2, is the woman Damien Hellstrom is with a pre-existing Marvel character? Someone from Hellstrom's own series? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 30 Apr 2004 02:39 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Finally, in Night Man v2 #2/2, is the woman Damien Hellstrom is with a pre-existing Marvel character? Someone from Hellstrom's own series? 
<<<


If it's a goth type, then it's probably a supporting character from the Warren Ellis run. Jaine Cutter, I think her name was.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 30 Apr 2004 02:58 am    
By SeanCurtin

jephyork wrote: 
Finally, in Night Man v2 #2/2, is the woman Damien Hellstrom is with a pre-existing Marvel character? Someone from Hellstrom's own series? 


Yes, that's his consort Jaine Cutter. 

-Sean

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Posted: 07 May 2004 09:23 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

A few notes: 

As I mentioned on the "intercompany crossover" thread, the Black September preview book does exist -- but contains no canon material or story. It's just pin-ups and previews. 

Also, while poking through my comic shop's Ultraverse stuff, I found a "Lord Pumpkin" series -- and Loki was on one cover. Is this a different series than "NecroMantra/Lord Pumpkin"? I didn't see the "NecroMantra" title on the cover, but I'm wondering if it was a flipbook. If not, this might be another appearance of Loki. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 08 May 2004 07:45 am    Post subject: Lord Pumpkin
By dimadick

There is a database for Ultraverse publications , though possibly incomplete. See: http://www.forgottenuniverses.com/ultraverselibrary.html 

According to it Lord Pumpkin # 0 was published in February, 1995 and the "Series continues as a flip-book to Necro Mantra" #1- 4 (April - July, 1995).

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Posted: 08 May 2004 10:51 am    Post subject: Necromantra/Lord Pumpkin
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Jeph, 

What you saw was the Lord Pumpkin cover to the flipbook, NECROMANTRA/LORD PUMPKIN #1. Add this issue to the master list of appearances by MU characters. I missed this one. 

I have the four-issue run of NECROMANTRA/LORD PUMPKIN in front of me. The first three issues are classic flipbooks, with both covers serving as front covers for different stories operating under different titles, but the indicia actually says "LORD PUMPKIN/NECROMANTRA," so we should call it that, with the Necromantra story carrying the "/2" designation to indicate that it's the second story. In each of these three issues, you have to flip the book to read the other story right side up. 

The fourth issue was handled differently. Both stories were printed the same side up and the Lord Pumpkin story comes first (comfirming the protocol to label the Necromantra story as "/2"). This issue came in two editions, one with a Lord Pumpkin cover and one with a Necromantra cover. The one with the Lord Pumpkin cover is labeled as a "Limited Special Edition," whatever that means. The indicia on both editions is identical: "LORD PUMPKIN/NECROMANTRA." 

Getting back to Loki, he appears in issues #1 and #3 in the Lord Pumpkin stories. He is not in issues #2 and #3. 

So eliminate "NECROMANTRA/LORD PUMPKIN #4" from the list and add: 

LORD PUMPKIN/NECROMANTRA #1 
Loki 
LORD PUMPKIN/NECROMANTRA #4 
Loki
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 08 May 2004 11:29 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

To think, the Ultraverse managed to go under while publishing comics with names like NECROMANTRA / LORD PUMPKIN!
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 08 May 2004 03:44 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I just discovered that Rune/Silver Surfer and Silver Surfer/Rune are different books. 

In addition to containing an all-new story, though, Silver Surfer/Rune also *reprints* Rune/Silver Surfer -- which may be where the confusion comes in. 

I found this info at the Forgotten Universes site Dimadick linked to ... it also lists which Marvel characters appeared in each book: 

Rune/Silver Surfer 
Thor, Powderkeg, Gamora, Maxxam, Warlock, Silver Surfer 

Silver Surfer/Rune 
Silver Surfer, Living Tribunal, Drax, Deathurge 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 08 May 2004 09:56 pm    Post subject: Silver Surfer/Rune
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Then I must have SILVER SURFER/RUNE. It's a flip book with the cover to "Silver Surfer/Rune #1" on one side and "Rune/Silver Surfer #1" on the other. The indicia of this comic says "RUNE/SILVER SURFER Standard Edition, Vol. 1, Number 1, April 1995." 

The two stories overlap; some scenes in both stories are identical. I combined the two stories into one entry under "RUNE/SILVER SURFER," but if there was a standalone RUNE/SILVER SURFER that came out before this flipbook, we'll need to decide how to cite these stories. If the standalone came out at the same time as the flipbook, I'm inclined to cite the R/SS story as "RUNE/SILVER SURFER #1" and the SS/R story as "RUNE/SILVER SURFER #1/2." Ah, the confusion of flipbooks... 

Jeph, the listing you cite is incomplete. Here is the complete rundown of MU characters in each story. 

RUNE/SILVER SURFER #1: 
Drax the Destroyer 
Gamora 
Living Tribunal 
Maxam 
Moondragon 
Pip 
Powderkeg 
Thanos 
Thor 
Warlock, Adam 

Also, when Rune lands on MU earth, he sees visions in his head of Spider-Man, Human Torch II, Storm, Sub-Mariner, and Thor, but they may not be actual scenes. 

However, when Rune stops time using the time gem, we we a montage of the following characters, and this may count as actual appearances for them: 
Beast 
Bishop 
Captain America 
Grey, Jean 
Hulk 
Spider-Woman II 
Venom 


SILVER SURFER/RUNE #1: 
Deathurge 
Living Tribunal 
Maxam 
Pip 
Silver Surfer 
We also see Moondragon, Adam Warlock, Gamora, Drax, Nova II, Mantis, Shalla Bal, and Norrin Radd's brother, but they are not actual appearances.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 May 2004 10:45 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Well, according to that same site, Rune/Silver Surfer came out in April 1995 -- while Silver Surfer/Rune came out in June. So it would seem they WERE separate releases after all. 

Thanks for the character info -- now I have to buy R/SS, dammit. >.< 

By the way, the cover below -- is it the flipbook cover, the reprint of R/SS, on the back of SS/R? 

Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 May 2004 05:55 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Jeez, the confusion over this book! 

I finally went out today out of frustration, and BOUGHT the thing. 

R/SS was *not* released separately in April and then reprinted in SS/R in June. There's only one comic. It was published in April 1995. It is a flipbook. It is 48 pages long, total. It contains two stories. It has different titles on each cover. 

Judging by the indicia, the book's official name is "Rune/Silver Surfer". 

The first story in the book, then, would be "Into Infinity", and the second story -- "If I Should Die", on the reverse "Silver Surfer/Rune" side -- would be listed by us as R/SS /2. 

I have no idea what makes the variant-cover R/SS shown above different from the regular edition, other than the cover itself. It boasts "48 pages", so presumably it's the exact same content as the standard R/SS that Paul and I both now own. 

Can anyone with the variant edition confirm this? 

Also, Paul, a few other Ultraverse questions: 

Is there any reason that UltraForce v2 #3 isn't on your list? Does it somehow not contain a Black Knight appearance, or do you just not own it and you can't check? 

Ditto Rune v2 #4-5 ... no Adam Warlock appearances, or do you just not own them? 

In the in-comic adverts for the Marvel/Ultraverse "Spine" events, Curse of Rune #2 is listed. I see you have #4 on the list ... does #2 contain any Marvel characters? 

And finally, in R/SS, the Infinity Gems take on personas and appear to be sentient. If they are, then they likely deserve eventual MCP listings ... can you (eventually) list which Malibu books contain appearances of the Infinity Gems? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 May 2004 07:18 pm    Post subject: Rune Conan questions
By Enda80

For Rune and Conan, as it stands, the possibilities are that: 

A. Did Earth-616 have its own Rune counterpart? This could be the simplest explanation. 
B. Did the Ultraverse also have the Hyborian Age as part of its history of Earth, and was Rune somehow resurrected for his other appearances? If so, then this was the Ultraverse's Conan. 
C. If not, and these appearances involve the Earth-616 Conan and a dimension-hopping Rune, do these appearances follow Rune's other tales, and he time-traveled back to the Hyborian Age? 
If that last idea (C) turns out (somehow) to be correct, and Conan the Savage#4/1 was the ultimate fate of Rune, then that would mean that the skull Thanos holds in his recent series (that everyone thought was Rune's) was not Rune's. 

Conan does refer to his battle with Rune in Conan#5. However, that Larry Hama Conan series came out after the continuity with the Conan comics broke down. While some of the later mini-series, the Iron Damsels appearance in Conan the Savage, and Conan the Savage#10 fit smoothly into continuity, beyond that, it becomes very hard to fit the post 1994 Conan comics into a rational chronology. 

Summaries of the issues................... 

(Conan the Savage#4/1 (fb, bts)) - At some point in the distant past, Rune decimated the race of the demonic creature B'eethra. 

(Conan vs Rune#1 (fb)) - Rune (wearing a suit of black battle armor) fell to Earth during the Hyborian Age in Turan, in the dunes beyond Agrapur. He seemed to have been weakened due to a recent battle. A bedouin encampment found him and nursed him back to health. For 100 days he recovered, and soon the bedouins came to see him as a god. However, he suddenly bit the head off and fed on a young female worshipper, Issa, and he then started preying on the Turanians. 

(Conan #4) - Rune used his Star Stones to see future hardships. One of the visions was an image of Conan. Rune was skeptical that a simple barbarian could pose a true threat to him. 

(Conan vs Rune#1) - Conan happened upon the corpses of Rune's victims, where he learned what had happened from one man who survived (though his legs had been bitten off and eaten by Rune). Conan put the suffering man out of his misery and swore to avenge him and his people. 
Conan walked into a trap and was ambushed by Rune. However, perhaps due to Rune's recent injuries, Conan was actually able to gain the upper hand on Rune, beating him relentlessly, and leaving him broken, bleeding, and apparently dead. However, suddenly Rune's Star Stones glowed and Rune was revived. Conan tried to rip Rune's necklace off to stop the Star Stones from restoring him completely, but instead he was overcome by visions of Rune in various forms, slaughtering entire races. When he awoke, Rune had vanished, and Conan was left with only questions. 

(Conan the Savage#4/1) - Twenty years after his first encounter with Rune, Conan was on his tenth year of his reign as king of Aquilonia. Members of the Brotherhood of the Spider sent assassins to attack him and his queen Zenobia in their bedchamber. He slew the assassins, then directed some soldiers (including Hadrius, Decurion, and Glachus) to the Minas H'Rath-Tower of the Brotherhood of the Spider. 
Conan left Hadrius to tend to the horses as he and the other soldiers went to deal with the Brotherhood. Rune then arrived, in search of power...as the Brotherhood was in the process of summoning the demonic being B'eethra. 
Rune slew Hadrius as B'eethra arrived. Rune then sprang for B'eethra (who recognized Rune as having slain his race in the past) but B'eethra consumed Rune. However, Rune managed to blast his way out of B'eethra, absorbing B'eethra's power. Exultant that he had won, Rune did not notice Conan sneak up on him and decapitate him. Still living, Rune's head screamed in horror as Conan then dismembered the rest of Rune's body, cutting off his limbs and wings. As life faded from Rune's eyes, Conan and his men left the cavern...but Rune's eyes soon shone with life again.

			*	*	*

Posted: 10 May 2004 07:27 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Is there any reason that UltraForce v2 #3 isn't on your list? Does it somehow not contain a Black Knight appearance, or do you just not own it and you can't check?  
<<<

I don't own Ultraforce v2 #3. If someone can check this issue for MU characters, that would be great. 


Quote: 
>>>
In the in-comic adverts for the Marvel/Ultraverse "Spine" events, Curse of Rune #2 is listed. I see you have #4 on the list ... does #2 contain any Marvel characters?  
<<<

I have all four issues of Curse of Rune. I didn't see any MU characters in issues #1 or #2, but I did notice that Loki appears in issue #3, so this should be added to the list. 


Quote: 
>>>
Ditto Rune v2 #4-5 ... no Adam Warlock appearances, or do you just not own them?  
<<<

No MU characters in Rune v2 #4-5. 


Quote: 
>>>
And finally, in R/SS, the Infinity Gems take on personas and appear to be sentient. If they are, then they likely deserve eventual MCP listings ... can you (eventually) list which Malibu books contain appearances of the Infinity Gems?  
<<<

Umm. I never took notes on the appearance of the Infinity Gems, so I can't get this information without going back and checking all the likely comics. Just don't have time right now. Anyone willing to volunteer on this one? And are we willing to do entire MCP listings for the gems' appearances in Marvel books? 


Here's an updated list: 

ALL NEW EXILES #8 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL NEW EXILES #1 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #2 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #3 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #4 
Juggernaut 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 
ALL NEW EXILES #5 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
Juggernaut 
ALL NEW EXILES #6 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #7 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #8 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #9 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #10 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ALL-NEW EXILES #11 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

AVENGERS/ULTRAFORCE #1 
Black Knight III 
Black Widow II 
Captain America 
Crystal 
Grandmaster 
Iron Man 
Loki 
Sersi 
Starfox 
Thor 
Vision 

BLACK SEPTEMBER #8 
Diamondback 
Juggernaut 
Lizard 
Reaper 
Spider-Man 
Warlock, Adam 

CURSE OF RUNE #3 
Loki 
CURSE OF RUNE #4 
Gemini III 

ELIMINATOR #3 
Sersi 

EXILES VS. X-MEN #0 
Beast 
Gambit 
Gateway 
Iceman 
Juggernaut 
Professor X 
Phoenix IV 
Reaper 
Rogue 
Siena Blaze 
Storm 

FOXFIRE #1 
Black Knight III 
FOXFIRE #2 
Black Knight III 
FOXFIRE #3 
Punisher 
FOXFIRE #4 
Punisher 

GODWHEEL #1 
Thor 
GODWHEEL #3 
Loki 
Thor 

HARDCASE #23 
Loki 

LORD PUMPKIN/NECROMANTRA #1 
Loki 
LORD PUMPKIN/NECROMANTRA #4 
Loki 

MANTRA #22 
Loki 
MANTRA v2 #2/2 
Gateway 

NIGHT MAN #22 
Loki 
NIGHT MAN v2 #2/2 
Cutter, Jaine 
Hellstorm 

NIGHT MAN/GAMBIT #1 
Candra 
Gambit 
NIGHT MAN/GAMBIT #2 
Candra 
Gambit 
NIGHT MAN/GAMBIT #3 
Candra 
Gambit 

NIGHT MAN VS. WOLVERINE #0 
Arcade 
Wolverine 

PHOENIX RESURRECTION #0 
Gateway 
Jubilee 

PHOENIX RESURRECTION: GENESIS #1 
Banshee 
Beast 
Bishop 
Black Knight III 
Dr. Spectrum 
Gateway 
Hyperion 
Jubilee 
Juggernaut 
Phoenix II 
Power Princess 
Rogue 
Storm 
Whizzer II 
Wolverine 

PHOENIX RESURRECTION: REVELATIONS #1 
Banshee 
Beast 
Bishop 
Black Knight III 
Gateway 
Jubilee 
Juggernaut 
Phoenix II 
Reaper 
Rogue 
Siena Blaze 
Storm 
Wolverine 

PRIME v2 #8 
Lizard 
Spider-Man 
PRIME v2 #1 
Lizard 
PRIME v2 #2 
Lizard 
PRIME v2 #2/2 
Gateway 

PRIME/CAPTAIN AMERICA #1 
Captain America 

PRIME VS. HULK #0 
Hulk 
Spider-Man 

RUNE v2 #8 
Annihilus 
Adam Warlock 
RUNE v2 #1 
Annihilus 
Warlock, Adam 
RUNE v2 #2/2 
Beast 
Storm 
Wolverine 
RUNE v2 #3 
Warlock, Adam 
RUNE v2 #6 
Warlock, Adam 
RUNE v2 #7 
Warlock, Adam 

RUNE/SILVER SURFER #1 
Deathurge 
Gamora 
Living Tribunal 
Maxam 
Moondragon 
Pip 
Powderkeg 
Thanos 
Thor 
Warlock, Adam 

RUNE VS. VENOM #1 
Dugan, Dum Dum 
Venom 

SIREN #8 
Diamondback 
Taskmaster 
SIREN #1 
Diamondback 
Dr. Spectrum 
Hyperion 
Taskmaster 
War Machine 
SIREN #2 
Diamondback 
Power Princess 
Taskmaster 
War Machine 
Whizzer II 
SIREN #2/2 
Beast 
Whizzer II 
SIREN #3 
Diamondback 
Taskmaster 
Whizzer II 

SIREN SPECIAL #1 
Juggernaut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

ULTRAFORCE #8 
Black Knight III 
Sersi 
ULTRAFORCE #9 
Black Knight III 
Sersi 
ULTRAFORCE #10 
Black Knight III 
Loki 
Luna 
Marilla 
Sersi 
ULTRAFORCE #11 (ULTRAFORCE/AVENGERS PRELUDE) 
Black Knight III 
Loki 
Sersi 

ULTRAFORCE v2 #8 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #1 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #2/2 
Black Knight III 
Spider-Man II 
Thor 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #3 
Black Knight III? 
Anyone else? 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #4 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #5 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #6 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #7 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #8 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #9 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #10 
Black Knight III 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #11 
Black Knight III 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 
ULTRAFORCE v2 #12 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

ULTRAFORCE/AVENGERS #1 
Black Knight III 
Black Widow II 
Captain America 
Crystal 
Grandmaster 
Iron Man 
Loki 
Quicksilver 
Sersi 
Starfox 
Thor 
Vision 

ULTRAFORCE/SPIDER-MAN #1A 
Black Knight III 
Green Goblin IV 
Spider-Man II 
ULTRAFORCE/SPIDER-MAN #1B 
Black Knight III 
Green Goblin IV 
Spider-Man II 

ULTRAVERSE UNLIMITED #1 
Warlock, Adam 
ULTRAVERSE UNLIMITED #2 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 12 May 2004 03:12 am    
By dimadick

Enda, Rune is suppossed to have been a virtually immortal vampire who had travelled across the universe/s for millenia. Conan's slaying of him (which by the way remains the only appearance of him reprinted in Greece) was not apparently any more effective that the numerous slayings of Dracula over the last six centuries. He was not however known to be a time-traveller. No need to turn his chronology to one similar to that of Kang the Conqueror. 

I suppose your source for his history was the Appendix to the Marvel Handbook. They have since updated their profile to include all his known actual and behind-the-scenes appearances in chronological order. See: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/runeuv.htm

			*	*	*

Posted: 12 May 2004 10:08 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Oh, man, John. Did you really cut and paste all that stuff you posted from the Unofficial Appendix site? Without crediting them? For shame. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 12 May 2004 12:40 pm    Post subject: I wrote all the Rune/Conan material in the first place
By Enda80

I wrote all of that Rune/Conan stuff in the first place. 

Anyway, the thing that kind of does not sit right with me is having Rune travel to Earth-616 before the modern era. Rune/Silver Surfer strongly implied that Rune's first contact with Earth-616 took place in that issue. So, I find it kind of strange that he would have travlled to Earth-616 12,000 years before. 

The only other solution (besides time travel) is to say that the Ultraverse had counterparts of Conan, Zenobia, the Hyborian Age, etc. In that case, then the Larry Hama Conan series took place in the Ultraverse, because Conan#5 has Conan recall his battle with Rune. 

This might affect any Conan chronology listing one might do, since a separate entry for an Ultraverse Conan would have to be made. Appearances would have to include Conan#4-5, Conan the Savage#4 and Conan vs. Rune.

			*	*	*

Posted: 12 May 2004 01:12 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
I wrote all of that Rune/Conan stuff in the first place. 
<<<

Oh. My apologies. 

Quote: 
>>>
Rune/Silver Surfer strongly implied that Rune's first contact with Earth-616 took place in that issue. 
<<

Where? All he says is that he's never encountered superpowered people like this before. Doesn't say he's never been to our specific dimension. 

Here's how I look at it: 12,000 years ago, Rune accidentally falls into the MU dimension, and has an adventure. 12,000 years later, he accidentally falls into the MU dimension again -- how is he going to recognize that he's been here before? Nothing is the same. And there are millions of alternate worlds -- of course he's going to be under the initial assumption he's never been to ours before, rather than wonder if this might happen to be the same exact one he hit 12,000 years back. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 04 Jul 2004 10:28 pm    Post subject: Taskmaster apperance not listed....
By DragynWulf

Taskmaster is shown in a flashback image in SIREN: SPECIAL #1.
_________________
-DragynWulf 
Owner/Webmaster of TaskmasterSite.com 
Moderator of the Taskmaster MBoard

			*	*	*

Posted: 04 Jul 2004 10:37 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Does the flashback contain any new information, or is it just recapping the events of Siren #1-3? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 04 Jul 2004 10:53 pm    
By DragynWulf

jephyork wrote: 
Does the flashback contain any new information, or is it just recapping the events of Siren #1-3? 


After Siren passes through the dimensional portal it shows Taskmaster, Jolt I, and Diamondback II (I believe she is also shown) in a flashback image. It is shown in a way that could be viewed as a recap of events, but it was only in one panel.
_________________
-DragynWulf 
Owner/Webmaster of TaskmasterSite.com 
Moderator of the Taskmaster MBoard

			*	*	*

Posted: 04 Jul 2004 11:03 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Hurrm. Sounds like more of one of those "floating heads" things than an actual flashback... 

I might have this issue somewhere, actually -- let me see if I can dig it up. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Jul 2004 08:24 am    
By PeteD

There is another title, does it affect your list? 

It is Phoenix Resurrection: The Aftermath 1. The story continues in Foxfire 1, and there is an appearance by the X-Men, according to this page at Mile High comics.

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Jul 2004 11:09 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Actually, despite what that page says (and despite the cover image of the X-Men), no Marvel characters appear in this issue at all -- it takes place several hundred years after the other "Phoenix Resurrection" issues. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 26

Posted: 15 Jul 2004 12:14 pm    Post subject: Gort
By ReyMort11

The listing for Gort has C2 96 (that's it). I don't have access to this comic yet. 

But there is a Gort as well in Uncanny X-Men 94,95. He's one of the Ani-Men made by Count Nefaria. 

Is this the same Gort?

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Jul 2004 01:11 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Nope. The Gort in Cable is an immortal Neanderthal. Which Ani-Man was named Gort? 


watching: live from

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Jul 2004 01:29 pm    
By Peter Fabricius

The first Ape Man (Gordon "Monk" Keefer) from DD 10-11
_________________
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Jul 2004 05:26 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Where does the "Gort" part come in? 


watching: lou dobbs

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Jul 2004 08:17 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

According to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, Deluxe Edition, Gort was Ape-Man I's alias at the time of his death in IM 116.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Jul 2004 12:41 pm    Post subject: Wow
By ReyMort11

You guys are good.  

Thanks

			*	*	*

Thread 27

Posted: 15 Jul 2004 08:04 am    Post subject: IRON MAN #51-100
By Arthur [DIRECTOR]

Iron Man #51 - #100 

* adjustment required 
** new entries 

BLACK LAMA 
IM 80-FB (17p2-18p1) from coronation to decision to train apprentice 
**IM 53-FB (12p1-12p2) meets and inducts Raga 
**IM 74-FB1 (11p2) AIM observer J5-T8 infiltrated into Black Lamas school 
IM 80-FB (18p2) advanced schooling for disciples 
**IM 53-FB (12p3-12p4) years of training including occult arts; gives Raga name and uniform 
IM 80-FB (18p4) becomes deranged 
{IM 53} 
IM 70-FB Black Lama Invites Yellow Claw to participate in the war of the Super-Villains 
**IM 74-FB2 (14p1) Black Lama invites Dr. Doom 
**IM 74-FB3 (14p3) Black Lama invites the Red Skull 
**IM 74-FB4 (14p5) Black Lama invites Fu Manchu 
IM 71 
IM 72 
IM 74 

BLIZZARD/PROF. GREGOR SHAPANKA 
TOS 45 
**IM 87-FB (7p5-10p4) Shows what happened after Jack Frost was turned over to police in TOS 45 
IM 86 
IM 87 

BLOOD BROTHERS 
IM 89 
*IM 90-BTS Only one brother is BTS (at McGuire Air Force Base). The other brother is shown on pg 1. (if a part of someone is shown, it gets a full listing, so here we have a part of the brothers, so I think it should be listed without the BTS) 
IM 91 

CONTROLLER/BASIL SANDHURST/XANDER BASEL 
IM 12-FB (from previous post) 
**IM 90-FB1 (6p3) shows Basil Sandhurst in hospital following accident 
IM 12 
IM 13 
IM 28 
CM 28 
CM 29 
CM 30 
IM 90-FB2 (7p4-10p4) controller's return following Thanos's banishing him to Limbo 
IM 88 

DR. DOOM/VICTOR VON DOOM 
FF 144 
**IM 74-FB2 (14p1) Doom rejects the Black Lamas invitation 
GSSVTU 1 

DRAX/ARTHUR DOUGLAS 
CM 32-FB 
{IM 55-FB-FB} 
**IM 55-FB (10p5) Drax's attempt to contact Iron Man. 
IM 55 

FIREBRAND/GARY GILBERT 
**IM 59-FB2 (11p2-11p3) Interaction between Gary Gilbert and his father. 
IM 27 
IM 48 
**IM 59-FB1 (10p2-10p6) reveals that Firebrand was hired by his father, Simon Gilbert. Shows Firebrands escape following IM 48 
IM 59 
IM 74 

FU MANCHU 
DHKF 5-FB-BTS 
** IM 74-FB4 (14p5) Fu Manchu's reaction to Black Lamas invitation (placement pretty much a best guess for me with little to validate it.) 
MOKF 17 
MOKF 18 

GILBERT, ROXANNE 
**IM 59-FB2 (11p2-11p3) Interaction between Roxanne Gilbert and her father 
IM 59 
**IM 60-FB (7p1-10p5) shows Roxanne hospitalized following being hurt by Firebrand. 
IM 60 
. . . . . 
IM 74 
*IM 75 Roxanne does not appear in IM 75, At best it might be considered a FB (14p1). Firebrand is recalling his recent flare-up with his sister Roxie where she revealed a growing affection for Tony Stark (as shown in IM 74 18p6). I consider it more a retelling with him just picturing her in his mind rather that a true flashback (no new information) 
IM 82 

GUARDSMAN/KEVIN O'BRIAN 
**IM 98-FB2 (22p3/2) Kevin telling his brother that Tony Stark has a bad heart. Michael states it was something Kevin once told me seemingly indicating it was a while ago. Kevin appears to be wearing the style/colour of suit he wore when part of the security detail (IM 31) and has not worn since he was promoted into R&D. That was my key determinant. Pretty slim. Placement certainly not definitive and could really be just about anywhere in Kevins chronology. 
IM 31 
IM 33 
IM 34 
IM 35 (1-3) 
**IM 98-FB1 (10p3-10p5) Tony Stark showing Kevin the Guardsman armour. I am not sure where exactly to place this one. Tony tells Kevin hes giving Iron Man a rest and we both thought you would be a perfect replacement. The use of we both indicates that this is before Tony reveals his secret to Kevin (IM 37). In IM 33 they are hardly close enough friends to warrant the trust. There is no time from IM 35 to IM 37 for Tony to take Kevin aside. Best I can come up with is that after Kevins stellar performance against Spymaster and the Espionage Elite (IM 34), Tony decided that Kevin was the man was a project hed been working onThe Guardsman armourand showed it to him between pages 3 and 4 of IM 35. It was unfinished at that time; Tony is shown with tool in hand (IM 98 10p3) likely fitting it to Kevins body size. 
IM 35 (4-20) 
DD 73 
IM 36 

HOGAN, HAROLD J. "HAPPY" 
IM 66 
*IM 67 should be IM 67-FB. Happys only appearance (7p4) is in the FB (7p2  10p4). As this follows his appearance in IM 66. no re-ordering is necessary. 
S&L 1/3 
IM 69 
IM 70 
IM 71 
**IM 73-FB (2p1 - 6p3) Happy watches as Tony shows Pepper his transformation into Iron Man 
IM 73 

HOGAN, VIRGINIA "PEPPER" POTTS 
IM 71 
**IM 73-FB (2p1 - 6p3) Tony shows Pepper his transformation into Iron Man 
IM 73 

IRON MAN/TONY STARK 
IM 35 (1-3) 
**IM 98-FB1 (10p3-10p5) see note above re GUARDSMAN 
IM 35 (4-20) 
. . . . . 
A 119 
**IM 55-FB (5p7-15p4) Drax's initial contacts with Iron Man 
IM 55 
. . . . . 
IM 59 
**IM 60-FB (7p1-10p5) shows Roxanne hospitalized following being hurt by Firebrand. 
IM 60 
. . . . . 
IM 65 
**IM 66-FB2 (32p1 - 32p2) Iron Man calling Avengers for support and then repairing his armour 
IM 66 
. . . . . 
IM 72 
**IM 73-FB (2p1 - 6p3) Tony shows Pepper his transformation into Iron Man 
IM 73 

IRON MAN III/EDDIE MARCH 
IM 65 (1-7) 
IM 66-FB (31p4) shows Eddie changing to Iron Man armour 
IM 65 (8-32) 

JARVIS, EDWIN 
A 119 
*IM 66 should be IM 66-FB (32p1); reveals that it is Tony Stark calling Jarvis in IM 65 
**IM 65 Jarvis agrees to do as requested 
A 120 

MANDARIN 
AA2 4 
**IM 57-FB (14p5-19p1) Mandarin's quest to regain the rings that were lost in AA2 4 
**IM 58-FB (7p2-10p5 Unicorn comes to Mandarin for help and is enslaved. 
IM 57 
. . . . . 
**IM 95-BTS 10p3-11p2 show a Russian submarine and crew. In IM 100 (15p4) Mandarin states  none suspect it wasmy mercenaries piloting that sub! 
IM 70 
IM 100-FB 
IM 98 
IM 100-FB 
IM 99 
IM 100 


invalidated... 
==>MENTOR/ALARS [ETERNAL] 
==>{IM 55-FB-FB} 
==>*IM 55 Mentor does not appear in IM 55 other than in the FB-FB already listed 
==>CM 27 

O'BRIEN, MICHAEL 
**IM 98-FB2-BTS (22p3/2) Michael learning from his brother Kevin (Guardsman) that Tony Stark has a bad heart. 
IM 82 
. . . . . 
IM 96 
**IM 97-FB (3p1-3p6) an hour ago. Michael appears in the Guardsman armour 
IM 97 
IM 98 

RAGA 
**IM 53-FB (10p2-12p4) background & transformation of Raga 
IM 52 
IM 53 

RED SKULL II/JOHANN SCHMIDT 
CA 186 
**IM 74-FB (11p3) Red Skull's reaction to Black Lamas invitation 
CB 15 

RODGERS, MARIANNE 
IM 58 
*IM 59 this should be IM 59-FB (2p4 - 2p5); Mariannes doctor is on the phone telling Tony about Mariannes recent behaviour 
*IM 74 Marianne does not appear in IM 74 
IM 75 

SNOW, VICTORIA 
**IM 62 WOW! What continuity. Tony says in IM3 7 that she managed his Cincinnati plant, and yes indeed, thats where shes working in IM 62. SIs first female plant manager! 
IM3 7-FB 
IM3 7 

STARFOX/EROS 
{IM 55-FB-FB} 
*IM 55 Starfox does not appear in IM 55 other than in the FB-FB already listed. 
CM 27 

THANOS 
A 118 
**IM 55-FB-FB (14p2-15p2) Thanos battling and capturing Drax 
{IM 55} 

UNICORN/MYLOS MASARYK 
DEF 13-FB 
**IM 58-FB (7p2 -10p5) how the Unicorn went to the Mandarin for help and ended enslaved 
IM 57 

YELLOW CLAW/TZING JAO/"BHAGWAN SRI ANANDA" 
CA 167 
**IM 70-FB (11p5-11p6) Black Lamas invitation to Yellow Claw. 
IM 69 
IM 70

Last edited by Arthur on 18 Jul 2004 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Jul 2004 12:20 pm    
By DCW3

Quote: 
>>>
*IM 55 Mentor does not appear in IM 55 other than in the FB-FB already listed  
<<<


Yes, he does. Pg. 12p2 and 14p5: Mentor gives instructions to ISAAC about how to free Drax.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Jul 2004 10:37 pm    
By Arthur [DIRECTOR]

12p2 is within the FB-FB, but I did miss the 14p5 sighting. 

Posting corrected...thank you.

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Jul 2004 04:38 pm    Post subject: FF, Black Widow, and DD in MARVEL TREASURY EDITION #25
By RLG

On page 22, Reed, Sue and Ben are sitting behind Peter. A blond male behind Ben's left shoulder could be Johnny. It's a hard call to make, one the one hand the blond male's hair is not parted to the left (like Johnny's -that rebel!) but, on the other hand, this guy is REAL close to the rest of the team. Either way, the team's appearance should be modified to: 

DD 164 
M/TE 25 
H2 250 

On the same page, Natasha and Matt appear sitting in front Peter. I'm not as sure as to where to insert their appearance, but he are my best guesses. 

Matt Murdock/Daredevil appears in DD 165 which is January of Paul B's Avengers calendar (YEAR 10 or 11 - I just don't know anymore!!). January dates are given with in DD 166, which is his next appearance. After that, he appears in DD 167, which shows weather that is warm enough for a swimming pool party at the beginning of the story. After DD 167, Daredevil appears in DEF 88, which occurs in April of Paul B's calendar. So.. 

DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK 
DD 165 
DD 166 
**M/TE 25 
DD 167 
DEF 88 

The Black Widow's appearance is a bit harder to place as she spends a good part of that February in Moscow on mission for SHIELD trying to find Ivan (see M/FAN 10-13). According to Paul's calander, M/TE 25 occurs while the Widow is in Russia undercover as "Laura Matthers." Her appearance at the Canadian Olympics with Matt in M/TE 25 would most likely occur BEFORE her SHIELD assignment, but could occur after she gets the assignment (M/FAN 11: flashback on page 6) but before she arrives in Moscow (M/FAN 11: flashback on page 7.) Also, the aforementioned flashbacks should be added to her chronology. 

BLACK WIDOW II/NATASHA ROMANOVA 
DD 165 
**M/TE 25 
M/FAN 10 
**M/FAN 11 (fb page 6) 
**M/FAN 11 (fb page 7) 
**M/FAN 11 (fb page 8, panels 1-5) 
**M/FAN 11 (fb page 8, panel 6 to page 11, panel 2) 
M/FAN 11 

OR... 

M/FAN 10 
**M/FAN 11 (fb page 6) - gets assingment 
**M/TE 25 
**M/FAN 11 (fb page 7) - flys to Moscow 

Finally, in the crowd scene in of M/TE 25, to the left of Peter is a male who could be either Dr.Strange or maybe even Tony (Hic!) Stark. Any guesses? 

- RLG

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Jul 2004 09:26 pm    
By RLG

Oops! When placing M/TE 25 in FF chronology, I meant to say... 

MTIO 74 
** M/TE 25 
H2 250 

- RLG

			*	*	*

Thread 29

Posted: 14 Jul 2004 10:18 pm    Post subject: magneto
By poetdowns

Okay, i'm reading Excalibur #2 and all of a sudden there's Magneto, and Prof X is telling him about his (Magneto's) double. 
What? 
What? When? Where? How? I followed that whole storyline where Jean died and Wolvie decapitated Magneto. I didn't see any subplot or even suggestion there was a Magneto double. Are we making stuff up as we go along or what? 
Poet

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Jul 2004 11:19 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

It's popularly referred to as a retcon -- Retroactive Continuity. Going back and saying "okay, what REALLY happaned in those issues was THIS..." 

Excalibur #2 was the first time the notion of a "Magneto double" has been mentioned anywhere. You haven't missed anything. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Jul 2004 01:11 pm    
By Dhall

In other words, we are just as confused as you, in terms of storylines, but chronologically speaking, the only question it raises, are 

a) How do we list the Magneto double? 

and 

b) When did the Magnetio double replace the real Magneto? 

Future storylines will hopefully clarify...... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Jul 2004 12:23 am    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

I'm hoping they reverse this plot real fast, (like they reveal the person Xavier is talking to is an illusion or something). 

I can't believe Claremont's reversing Morrison's whole storyline like this! This type of plot restructuring is just as bad as anything Lobdell and Nicienza did after Claremont left the book back in the early 90's! 
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Jul 2004 01:58 pm    
By John Simons

Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
I'm hoping they reverse this plot real fast, (like they reveal the person Xavier is talking to is an illusion or something).  
<<<


I know the feeling. I'm still hoping they reverse the plots that resurrected Norman Osborn and Aunt May, killed off Baby May, revealed that the Jean Grey who sacrificed herself on the moon was an imposter, returned Elektra to the assassination game... 

Quote: 
>>>
I can't believe Claremont's reversing Morrison's whole storyline like this! ( 
<<<


I can. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens all too often at Marvel, where certain creators get a bunch in their undies if someone else dares use their pet characters. Starlin did something similar, writing off Thanos appearences by other writers; Englehart did it too with some Mantis appearences (I hate to tell you Steve, but the Mantis Louise Simonson wrote in Galactus the Devourer was the only time I've ever actually been interested in that character). I think Paul hit it on the head in his Excalibur review when he used the word "petulant".

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Jul 2004 03:12 pm    
By Starman

John Simons wrote: 
>>>
I'm still hoping they reverse the plots that resurrected Norman Osborn and Aunt May, killed off Baby May... 
<<<

I don't mind that Norman Osborn came back, I love that Norman is back, I've always liked him as Green Goblin more, than Harry as Green Goblin. 

That Aunt May is back too doesn't bother me so much, Peter needs an older wiser person to talk with sometimes, but I'd rather had wanted Baby May to come back. Is it really confirmed that Baby May is dead? From reading it more seemed to me like Caine took the baby from the Scriers, which makes me speculate he might be raising it himself somewhere in comic limbo. 


John Simons wrote: 
>>>
...revealed that the Jean Grey who sacrificed herself on the moon was an imposter... 
<<<

I don't mind that either, and it still was her, in a sense. Professor X is too just an "imposter". It's his mind in a cloned body, just as it was Jean Grey's mind (an identical copy at least) in a cloned/copied body.  


John Simons wrote: 
>>>
...returned Elektra to the assassination game... 
<<<

Well, on that point I have no opinion, I have hardly read anything at all with her.
_________________
[Last line from The Hulk (2003)] 
Bruce Banner: You're making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Jul 2004 09:05 pm    Post subject: thanks
By poetdowns

Jephyork, thanks i really appreciate that. With so many books out and not being able to read everything i want; i thought i missed something. 
Everyone remember when Spiderman first got the black costume? And after everyone was back on earth on earth, Marvel just dithered around and dithered around having him wear one costume then another. (this was before they turned the black one into a symbiote) And it was like they couldn't decide what Spiderman should wear. For cryin' out loud, was it really such a big hairy deal? So he wears something different for awhile, who cares?!!!! Just stop dithering!! 
Jean (who i thought was too powerful to be killable) whom Magneto even liked (as a person) gets killed? Wolvie cuts Mags' head off??!! Whoa!!! When was the last time we read a story of such impact? 
Now all of a sudden it's a "what if" story. What is their problem over there? 
Betty dies and Mr. David leaves -where was he going with that, Banner's hung out with lots of people they never got radiation poisoning. Next issue she's not dead she's in stasis. 
How about a petition to Marvel?: "Please get your act together or we're not going to keep putting money out for your %#@*. 

To everyone who contributed a reply: Thanks, i was really lost and confused. 
Poet

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Jul 2004 09:50 pm    
By david

Quote: 
>>>
Jean (who i thought was too powerful to be killable) whom Magneto even liked (as a person) gets killed? 
<<<

That was the bit that I hated!

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Jul 2004 10:33 pm    
By Starman

poetdowns wrote: 
>>>
Everyone remember when Spiderman first got the black costume? And after everyone was back on earth on earth, Marvel just dithered around and dithered around having him wear one costume then another. (this was before they turned the black one into a symbiote) And it was like they couldn't decide what Spiderman should wear. For cryin' out loud, was it really such a big hairy deal? So he wears something different for awhile, who cares?!!!! Just stop dithering!! 
<<<


You got the order a little wrong, but I'm not blaming you for that. Easily done sometimes.  

First he had the symbiote costume, then Mr. Fantastic helped him to get rid of it. Then he just had his red and blues for awhile, Black Cat made him new black costumes, so he started to alternate between the red and blues, and the black one, for awhile until the last of his red and blues got destroyed. Then he just wore black, until the introduction of Venom (the symbiote joined with Eddie Brock). After that he's only worn the red and blues, with only a few special occasions after that (Spider-Man #13-#14, Moon Knight #32-#33, and Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 2 #19). 

More about the black costume in detail you can read about here: 
Spider-Man's black costume 
http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/himself/costume/black/
_________________
[Last line from The Hulk (2003)] 
Bruce Banner: You're making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

			*	*	*


Thread 30

Posted: 24 Jul 2004 05:41 pm    Post subject: What's coming from Marvel in October...
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Here's the latest previews from Marvel, for the month of October, (so we can be prepared chronology-wise for what's to come): 

http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2004-10/marvel.php 

You know what? I can no longer tell what's a new miniseries and what's a new ongoing series. Most stuff that is getting published is billed as Pt. 1 of 4,5, or 6 but that could mean the end of that story, not the end of the title...Marvel's new policy seems to be to literally throw a whole slew of stuff out to the public, and whatever sales halfway decent, continue publishing. That would explain Thor: Son of Asgard. I think anything has the possibility to be a new ongoing series, if the Gods of Fate, (aka Marvel) allow a title to continue... 

Anyway, the big news for this month is that it's Wolverine's 30th anniversary. So many of the X-titles have stuff dealing with Wolverine. Some of that stuff includes: 


Sabertooth #1 of 5: This is a new miniseries, (ongoing?)... 


There's also some new stuff that they have to be putting out because of the new Blade movie: 

There's a new Tomb of Dracula series... 

And, though it's probably not something pertaining to the current Marvel era, Marvel's also publishing "Stoker's Dracula" an adaptation of the original Dracula story. This was written and drawn back in the 70's, and it's advertised as something "Lost in the Marvel vaults!" Okaaaaay.... 

Other things to take note of: 

The main ongoing Hulk title is indeed being suspended for 4 months, and in it's place we have the Hulk/Thing miniseries, (Issue 1 comes out in September). But the latest word is that Bruce Jones, writer of the Hulk titles and of this miniseries, is leaving Marvel for DC. He's reportedly wrote at least 1 more Hulk storyarc which was set to be published in the regular Hulk title after this Hulk/Thing miniseries concludes...but now that he's leaving for DC, I believe that's up in the air as to whether it'll ever see the light of day. I think Marvel's about to reboot the Hulk title. They may start over with a new Issue 1...or go back to the old numbering...we're just going to have to wait a couple more months to find out what Marvel has up their sleeve... 

Other than that, the other thing to take notice of is...The last issue of Thor ships this month? 
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Jul 2004 05:57 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Well, literally speaking, all they said was "there's no Thor #86 next month". Which could be interpreted as "one month hiatus". 

As for the minis? Son of Asgard being the sole exception lately, it seems to me that when something like "Sabretooth #1 (of 5)" is in the actual header line for the comic solicit (rather than say "New X-Men #3 - Choosing Sides, part 3 of 6"), then it's likely a mini. 

Hey, are the newer Marvel Age books -- Marvel Age Hulk and Marvel Age Marvel Team-Up -- retellings of the original stories, or all-new stories set in the Marvel Age "universe"? (Or, all-new all-age stories potentially set in the MU?) 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Jul 2004 12:45 am
By ADMINISTRATOR

Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
And, though it's probably not something pertaining to the current Marvel era, Marvel's also publishing "Stoker's Dracula" an adaptation of the original Dracula story. This was written and drawn back in the 70's, and it's advertised as something "Lost in the Marvel vaults!" Okaaaaay.... 
<<<


Marvel began publishing an adaptation of Stoker's Dracula in the black and white Dracula Lives magazine in the 70's, but it was abadoned after the first couple of installments. Perhaps that's what they're picking up. 


watching: x2

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Jul 2004 07:29 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Well, literally speaking, all they said was "there's no Thor #86 next month". Which could be interpreted as "one month hiatus". 
<<<

The solicitations in Marvel Previews go a little further and specifically say "Last Issue." 

At San Diego, Quesada was asked about THOR and said that plans had changed, and people should be patient. (I suspect the idea was to relaunch with the Gaiman miniseries, but that's been pushed back.) 


jephyork wrote: 
>>>
As for the minis? Son of Asgard being the sole exception lately, it seems to me that when something like "Sabretooth #1 (of 5)" is in the actual header line for the comic solicit (rather than say "New X-Men #3 - Choosing Sides, part 3 of 6"), then it's likely a mini. 
<<<

Correct - if the header line says "TITLE #1 (of 5)", then it's a miniseries. If the story title says "Part 1 (of 6)" then it's a six-part story. However, Marvel have taken to subtly re-designating ongoing titles as miniseries if they bomb straight out of the gate - something which happened before back in the mid-nineties. For example, STARJAMMERS is expressly described as an ongoing title in the X-books' letters pages, but the October solicitations have knocked it down to a five-issue mini. 


jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Hey, are the newer Marvel Age books -- Marvel Age Hulk and Marvel Age Marvel Team-Up -- retellings of the original stories, or all-new stories set in the Marvel Age "universe"? (Or, all-new all-age stories potentially set in the MU?) 
<<<

Those Marvel Age books are out of continuity altogether. They're updated retellings of pre-existing stories, but Sean McKeever made it clear in an interview several months ago that they're not supposed to be canonical in any way, shape or form. Nor is there a separate Marvel Age universe. It's just an imprint that covers a variety of all-ages titles, and reprints of a few Marvel titles (such as RUNAWAYS and SENTINEL).
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Jul 2004 07:36 pm    Post subject: Question about FF in Year 1 calendar
By RLG

First off, congratulations are in order to Paul B. and everyone else who worked on the latest installment of the Marvel Calendar. From what I have seen, once this is completed (Year 1 onward) somebody should look into getting it approved and published by Marvel. 

My question centers around the earliest adventures of the Fantastic Four. If I've read the calendar correctly, the FF take the experimental rocket trip and gain their powers sometime towards the end of February. About a month later (April 1st) Ben Parker is killed. These dates seem to jive with George O's assertion of "spring-time" for the debut of Spider-Man. 

If the chronological order with MARVEL SAGA is correct, then all the events of FF #1 through FF #5 would them occur solely during the month of March. This includes the unknown amount of time between the rocket trip and the battle with the Moleman AND their move from Central City to the Big Apple. (It also includes the snowy weather in NYC seen in MTIO #50.) 

Does it seem plausible for all of the events between FF #1 to #5 to happen in the space of one month? 

Now, I tend to agree with the February placement for the team's anniversary, as it works quite well with FF #296 and ALSO within the latest calendar. In the case of FF #296, the multiple references to the Christmas season during the various titles circa. the end of Secret Wars 2, would make it their 12th anniversary (with the X-Mas season closing out YEAR 12.) 

Is it possible that the team celebrates at the end of February the anniversary of them becoming an "official" team (complete with uniforms, headquaters, etc) which happened between FF #2 and #3? This time period is also seen in MTIO #50. - just a thought. 

Anyway, congrats again on the VERY impressive calendar. I am looking forward to providing my input on YEARS 1 - 15ish. I can't wait to see where the various `70 monster and kung-fu titles are placed on a calander along side FF, Spidey, Avengers, etc. 

- RLG

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Jul 2004 09:34 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
Does it seem plausible for all of the events between FF #1 to #5 to happen in the space of one month?  


No, it's not very plausible...but then, I never said that Amazing Fantasy #15 occurs in Year 1... 

Thanks for the congrats, RLG. 
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Jul 2004 03:30 pm    
By RLG

Paul, 

I have always been under the assumption that "YEAR 1" was Peter Parker's sophomore/junior year of high school (thus Johnny Storm's as well.) 

Are you saying that the FF took the rocket trip in February of Johnny and Peter's FRESHMAN year? If that is the case, then it would certainly give the FF enough time to meet the Moleman and the Skurlls and then sometime during the winter months (remember snowy weather in MTIO #50) for Reed to set them up in the Baxter Building. 

- RLG

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Jul 2004 09:19 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Are you saying that the FF took the rocket trip in February of Johnny and Peter's FRESHMAN year? 
<<<


I am, indeed. Year One includes the second half of their freshman year and the first half of their sophomore year. Many months pass during the course of the first several issues of FF.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 32

Posted: 27 Jul 2004 04:16 pm    Post subject: Fury#1; odd Zola, Red Skull.....
By Enda80

Fury#1 features an odd flashback with Hitler. Around 1944, he visits Arnim Zola and the Red Skull. (Zola already has his ESP-box body.) Zola gives the Red Skull a potion to take that will place him in suspended animation, while Zola points to a cloned body he has prepared for Hitler to transfer his mind into. Baron Strucker then shows up after Hitler leaves to get the Skull's backing to take over Hydra. (Strucker's dialogue indicates, by the way, that the Red Skull did play some part in the founding of Hydra.)

			*	*	*

Thread 33

Posted: 27 Jul 2004 02:29 am    Post subject: Squadron Supreme miniseries
By SeanCurtin

Missing characters and entries from Squadron Supreme #1-12 and Captain America #314: 

**AIDA 
SQS 1 
SQS 2 
SQS 5 
SQS 9 
SQS 11 

AMPHIBIAN/KINGSLEY RICE 
**SQS 1-FB (Squadron is founded) 
**SQS 9-FB (vs. Institute) 
WOSM@ 5/6-FB-BTS 
... 
SQS 5 
**SQS 12-FB (aftermath of battle with Institute) 
SQS 6 

APE X/XINA 
**SQS 9-FB 
SQS 5 
**SQS 12-FB (aftermath of battle, Foxfire is b-modded) 
**CA 314-FB (behavior modified) 
SQS 6 
... 
SQS 8 
**SQS 10-FB (with Tom, building a new weapon) 
SQS 9 

BLUE EAGLE/JAMES DORE 
SQS 5 
**SQS 12-FB (aftermath of battle) 
**CA 314-FB (b-modding Ape X) 
**SQS 6-FB (with Whizzer at prison) 
SQS 6 

**BOLLIX 
SQS 8 

**BRAUTIGAN, RANDALL 
SQS 10 

**CEREBRAX 
SQS 6 

**DORE, MRS. 
SQS 1 
SQS 5 

DR. DECIBEL/DR. ANTON DECIBEL 
**SQS 9-FB (Institute vs Squadron) 
SQS 5 
**SQS 12-FB (aftermath of battle, Foxfire is b-modded) 
SQS 6 

DR. SPECTRUM/JOSEPH LEDGER 
**SQS 4-FB (receives prism from Skrull, fights Quagmire) 
**SQS 1-FB (Squadron is founded) 
SQS 9-FB (Squadron vs Institute) 
**SQS 10-FB (Tom Thumb joins) 
... 
T 280 
**SQS 10-FB (building space station) 
DEF 112-FB 
... 
SQS 5 
**SQS 9-FB (Foxfire is b-modded) 
SQS 6 

FOXFIRE/OLIVIA UNDERWOOD 
**SQS 9-FB (Squadron vs Institute) 
SQS 5 
**SQS 9-FB (under behavior modification device, still fighting) 
**SQS 12-FB (under behavior modification device, no longer fighting) 
**CA 314-FB (shaking hands with Squadron post-modification) 
SQS 6 

**GAINES, FLORENCE 
SQS 1 
SQS 2 

**GAINES, GILBERT 
SQS 1 
SQS 2 

**GAINES, ROBERT "BOBBY" 
SQS 3 

**GARDNER, PRESIDENT JULES 
SQS 3 
SQS 12 
SQS:NWO 

GOLDEN ARCHER/WYATT MCDONALD 
SQS 4 
**SQS 5-FB (captured by Shape) 
SQS 5 

HAYWIRE/HAROLD DANFORTH 
**SQS 12-FB (Redeemers fully formed) 
SQS 10 

HYPERION/"MARK MILTON" 
**SQS 1-FB (in youth; later, Squadron is founded) 
SQS 9-FB (original Squadron vs Institute of Evil) 
**SQS 10-FB (Tom Thumb joins) 
... 
T 280 
**SQS 10-FB (building space station) 
DEF 111 
... 
SQS 5 
**SQS 9-FB (Foxfire being b-modded but is struggling) 
**SQS 12-FB (Foxfire being b-modded and is complacent) 
**CA 314-FB (Foxfire done, Ape X under b-mod) 
SQS 6 

HYPERION II/"ZHIB RHAN" 
M/TIO 66 
**SQS 7-FB (wandering in the void) 
SQS 7 

INERTIA/EDITH FREIBURG 
**SQS 12-FB (Redeemers fully formed) 
SQS 10 

**IRON MOTH 
SQS 10-FB 

JONES, ANDREW "ANDY" 
**SQS 1 
**SQS 5 
**SQS 6 
**SQS 9 
**SQS 12 
SQS:NWO 

**JONES, BENJAMIN THOMAS 
SQS 4-BTS 
SQS 5-BTS 
SQS 6-BTS 
SQS 7-BTS 
SQS 8-BTS 
SQS 9-BTS 
SQS 10-BTS 
SQS 11-BTS 
SQS 12 (born) 

JONES, DRUCILLA 
**SQS 1 
**SQS 5 
**SQS 6 
**SQS 9 
**SQS 12 
SQS:NWO 

JONES, KATRINA "KATIE" 
**SQS 1 
**SQS 5 
**SQS 6 
**SQS 9 
**SQS 12 
SQS:NWO 

JONES, PHILLIP 
**SQS 1 
**SQS 5 
**SQS 6 
**SQS 7 
**SQS 9 
**SQS 12 
SQS:NWO 

LADY LARK/LINDA LEWIS 
SQS 5 
**SQS 12-FB (aftermath of battle) 
SQS 6 

LAMPREY/DONALD MCGUIGGIN 
**SQS 9-FB (Institute vs Squadron) 
SQS 5 
**SQS 12-FB (Foxfire being b-modded) 
**CA 314-FB (shaking hands with Squadron) 
SQS 6 

**MINK 
SQS 9-FB 
SQS 6 
CA 314 
SQS 7 
SQS 9 
SQS 12-FB 
SQS 10 
SQS 11 
SQS 12 

MOONGLOW/MELISSA HANOVER 
**SQS 12-FB (Redeemers formed) 
SQS 10 

NIGHTHAWK/KYLE RICHMOND | EARTH-S 
**SQS 1-FB (Squadron is founded) 
SQS 9-FB 
... 
SQS 8 
**SQS 12-FB (Redeemers formed) 
SQS 10 

NUKE: real name Albert Gaines. 

**PINBALL 
SQS 6 
CA 314 
SQS 7 
SQS 9 
SQS 12-FB 
SQS 10 
SQS 11 
SQS 12 

POWER PRINCESS/ZARDA 
**SQS 1-FB (upbringing, meets husband, Squadron is founded) 
**SQS 10-FB (Tom Thumb joins) 
WOSM@ 5/6-FB-BTS 
... 
SQS 5 
**SQS 12-FB (Foxfire being b-modded) 
**CA 314-FB (Foxfire b-modded) 
SQS 6 

QUAGMIRE/JEROME MEYERS 
**SQS 4-FB (vs Dr. Spectrum) 
**SQS 9-FB (Institute vs Squadron) 
SQS 5 
**SQS 12-FB (aftermath of battle, waiting for b-mod) 
**CA 314-FB (already b-modded) 
SQS 6 
... 
SQS 8 
**SQS 9-FB (seen entering building) 
SQS 8 

REDSTONE/MICHAEL REDSTONE 
SQS 9 
**SQS 12-FB (Redeemers formed) 
SQS 10 

**REMNANT 
SQS 6 
CA 314 
SQS 7 
SQS 9 
SQS 12-FB 
SQS 10 
SQS 11 
SQS 12 

**RUSTLER 
SQS 8 

SHAPE 
**SQS 9-FB (Institute vs Squadron) 
**SQS 5-FB (immediately prior to the issue) 
SQS 5 
**SQS 12-FB (aftermath of battle, waiting for b-mod) 
**CA 314-FB (already b-modded) 
SQS 6 

**SHELDON, VICE PRESIDENT 
SQS 12 
SQS:NWO 

**SHELTON, HOWARD 
SQS 1-FB 
SQS 1 
SQS 5 
SQS 7 

SKYMAX/SK'YM'X/"JAMES DOE" [SKRULL] 
**SQS 4-FB (gives prism to Dr. Spectrum) 
**SQS 1-FB (Squadron is founded) 
**SQS 9-FB (original Squadron vs Institute of Evil) 
SQS:NWO 

STEWART, MADELINE "MADDY" 
**SQS 1 
**SQS 5 
**SQS 6 
**SQS 7 
**SQS 9 
**SQS 12 
SQS:NWO 

STEWART, TINA 
**SQS 1 
**SQS 5 
**SQS 6 
**SQS 9 
**SQS 12 
SQS:NWO 

THERMITE/SAM YURIMOTO 
**SQS 12-FB (Redeemers formed) 
SQS 10 

TOM THUMB/THOMAS THOMPSON 
**SQS 10-FB (solo career, joins Squadron) 
A 85 
... 
T 280 
**SQS 10-FB (building space station) 
DEF 112-FB 
... 
SQS 5 
**CA 314-FB (Ape X being b-modded) 
SQS 6 
SQS 7 
SQS 8 
**SQS 10-FB (building various inventions) 
SQS 9 
SQS 10 
**SQS 12-BTS (hibernacle seen) 

WHIZZER II/STANLEY STEWART 
**SQS 1-FB (Squadron is founded) 
SQS 9-FB 
... 
SQS 1 
**SQS 1-FB (report to the rest of the Squadron) 
SQS 1 
... 
SQS 5 
**SQS 6-FB (with Blue Eagle at the prison) 
SQS 6 

**YATES, DANIEL 
SQS 6-FB 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Jul 2004 11:30 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Also, there are flashbacks in issue #1 to the events of Defenders #111-114 which may contain new information, although I don't have those issues yet and can't confirm that. The Hyperion imposter's flashbacks in #7 may contain new scenes as well. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 34

Posted: 28 Jul 2004 03:18 pm    Post subject: Taskmaster Chronology........ corrections and additions.....
By DragynWulf

You have Deadpool v3 (should be v2 since the first limited series was titled DEADPOOL: THE CIRCLE CHASE while the 2nd and 3rd were titled DEADPOOL) #35 listed as Taskmaster's first appearance through a flashback. 

Due to the Hobgoblin being involved the flashback wouldn't take place until after DAREDEVIL #293. The issue does state that the Wizard is looking for a new Frightful Four, but he doesn't say which colleagues have parted ways with him since there have been more than one version of the Frightful Four. Paste Pot Pete is mentioned, but only because Deadpool thinks that is who the Wizard is. 

You also don't have Taskmaster's appearances in TASKMASTER #1-4, DEADLINE #3, DEADPOOL v2 #67-69 listed. These would all take place prior to AGENT-X #1 and in that particular order. 

TASKMASTER #1 shows a flashback that should be listed either before or after AVENGERS v1 #196 depending on how you want to look at it. My guess would be that it is before since it only shows him as a little boy while his appearance in AVENGERS v1 #196 shows him as a little boy and young adult. 

Also the link you have is an old link. Would it be possible to update it to taskmastersite.com instead of the Geocities site that is no longer there.
_________________
-DragynWulf 
Owner/Webmaster of TaskmasterSite.com 
Moderator of the Taskmaster MBoard

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Jul 2004 05:20 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

DragynWulf wrote: 
>>>
You have Deadpool v3 (should be v2 since the first limited series was titled DEADPOOL: THE CIRCLE CHASE while the 2nd and 3rd were titled DEADPOOL) #35 listed as Taskmaster's first appearance through a flashback. 

Due to the Hobgoblin being involved the flashback wouldn't take place until after DAREDEVIL #293. The issue does state that the Wizard is looking for a new Frightful Four, but he doesn't say which colleagues have parted ways with him since there have been more than one version of the Frightful Four. Paste Pot Pete is mentioned, but only because Deadpool thinks that is who the Wizard is. 
<<<


Your premise is unclear. I'm not disputing you, but it's just hard to follow your reasoning. When you say, "Due to the Hobgoblin being involved the flashback wouldn't take place until after DAREDEVIL #293," I'd ask you to draw a clearer line from point a to point b than that. Why does the "Hobgoblin being involved" require that the flashback take place after DD 293? 

Oh, and don't get hung up on the Key Codes. DPOOL3 is just what we've elected to call the ongoing third Deadpool series. We could have just as easily used the code WDV4YF for Deadpool. 


watching: winds of war

			*	*	*

Thread 35

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:39 pm    Post subject: Scarlet Centurion; different one
By Enda80

Captain America Annual#11 has Kang state the Scarlet Centurion from Squadron Supreme is a seperate entity from the A@2 Scarlet Centurion, who later became one of the many Kangs. 

So; 

SCARLET CENTURION 
A 56-BTS 
{A@ 2} 

SCARLET CENTURION (divergent) 
SQS 2 
SQS 9

			*	*	*

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:29 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Regardless of whether or not this claim is actually true, the Centurion from A 56-BTS is by necessity the same one from SQS (fighting the "real" Squadron gave him the inspiration to create one of his own). This same Centurion also appears in flashback in SQS 9 (and there's a number of other unlisted flashbacks in that series as well). 

SCARLET CENTURION 
A 56-BTS 
{A@ 2} 

SCARLET CENTURION | EARTH-S 
SQS 9-FB 
{SQS 2} 
SQS 9 

-Sean

Last edited by SeanCurtin on Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:40 pm    Post subject: You are thinking of the Grandmaster
By Enda80

You would be right that that was the Earth-616 Grandmaster in Squadron Supreme, since the Handbook states that he created the Squadron Sinister in imitation of them. 

However, the Scarlet Centurion that the Squadron fought never created a Squadron Sinister.

			*	*	*

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:27 pm    
By SeanCurtin

The Official Handbook Update '89 #6, CA@ 11 and Avengers Forever #9 all confirm that Kang (the Kang, not a Kang) was the Centurion, and that a divergent version (the one who fought the Squadron) was created due to the events of A@ 2. 

Now, the real question is, why are the Rama-Tut and Kang profiles separated the way that they are? The MCP listings suggest that Kang is only active as Rama-Tut in the issues surrounding GSA 2, which is wrong. Rama-Tut becomes Kang, who generates Immortus in AVF 12. Am I mistaken? 

(While we're on the subject, Pharaoh Rama-Tut's entry should include WCA2 20 rather than WCA 20, and should probably be listed as RAMA-TUT, PHARAOH rather than PHARAOH RAMA-TUT.) 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:13 pm    
By John Simons

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
Now, the real question is, why are the Rama-Tut and Kang profiles separated the way that they are? The MCP listings suggest that Kang is only active as Rama-Tut in the issues surrounding GSA 2, which is wrong. Rama-Tut becomes Kang, who generates Immortus in AVF 12. Am I mistaken? 
<<<

Rama-Tut's entry only covers the early time, prior to becoming Kang for the first time. His second stint as Rama-Tut (circa GSA 2) is actually listed under Kang, as so: 

... 
AVF 9-FB 
A 129 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut) 
GSA 2 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut) 
A 131 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut) 
A 132 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut) 
GSA 3 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut) 
T 282-FB (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut) 
AVF 9-FB 
... 

Not sure why that would be. 

And I definitely don't understand why the end of the Rama-Tut entry would say "See Immortus". He definitely becomes Scarlet Centurion next, then Kang, Victor Timely, Rama-Tut again, Kang again, then finally Immortus. 

I have to confess I don't entirely understand the end of Avengers Forever. We seem to be seeing the creation of Immortus (which, if that were the case, would make AVF 12 the earliest entry in his chronology), however he makes comments to the effect that he will do things differently than the first time around. In other words, he's not exactly the same Immortus that the Avengers already know. So is he Immortus II? And if so, then I still don't understand where the original Immortus came from... it's confusing. 


Quote: 
>>>
(While we're on the subject, Pharaoh Rama-Tut's entry should include WCA2 20 rather than WCA 20, and should probably be listed as RAMA-TUT, PHARAOH rather than PHARAOH RAMA-TUT.) 
<<<


There doesn't seem to be any kind of consistent rule about titles in the MCP. For instance, Baron Mordo and Baron Strucker are listed under B for Baron, but Baron Zemo is listed under Z for Zemo.

			*	*	*

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:31 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

John Simons wrote: 
>>>
There doesn't seem to be any kind of consistent rule about titles in the MCP. For instance, Baron Mordo and Baron Strucker are listed under B for Baron, but Baron Zemo is listed under Z for Zemo. 
<<<


Because, unlike the real world, there's no consistency in the characters themselves. The question is, to what extent is the title part of the name? 

For instance, May Parker's physician, Dr. Bromwell, is listed under "Bromwell, Dr." because the Dr. is solely a title, not part of the name. To list him under "Dr. Bromwell" would be, well, absurd. 

On the other hand, the title is inherent for Dr. Doom, or Dr. Strange. To list them as "Doom, Dr." or "Strange, Dr." would be, well, even more absurd. 

Now, of course, the answer to the question above is open to debate, but I hope that explains the apparent inconsistencies. 


watching: winds of war

			*	*	*

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:06 pm    Post subject: Doctor Strange is a doctor
By Enda80

I find it odd that Doctor Strange is listed as Doctor Strange, since, he is, in fact, an accredited medical doctor.

			*	*	*

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:11 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

That's irrelevant. He's listed that way because it's his code name. 


watching: smallville

			*	*	*

Thread 36

Posted: 26 Jul 2004 07:23 am    Post subject: Wendigo Matters
By Enda80

It turns out that the Handbook Master Edition stated that the Wendgio from Spider-Man (McFarlane storyline) was not Lartigue. 



From: "Madison Carter" <mdcarter5001@a...> 
Date: Mon Dec 8, 2003 4:21 am 
Subject: Yeti/Wendigo 


ADVERTISEMENT 


While still on the subject of Yeti/Wendigo, I found this page at the 
Leader's Lair. 

http://leaderslair.crosswinds.net/marvelvillains/wendigo.html 

It omits the MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS appearance (and the WILD THING 
future tale), and also states that Lartigue is the same Wendigo seen 
in SPIDER-MAN #8-12. However, the Handbook/Master Edition's entry for 
Wendigo states that that was a fourth, unnamed man, so I'm going with 
them. Obviously, though, by the time Yeti showed up, Marvel had given 
up on keeping track of who was who in terms of the Wendigo, so who 
knows.

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Jul 2004 09:06 pm    
By Starman

Try the link http://www.leaderslair.com/marvelvillains/wendigo.html instead. They changed URL sometime in the beginning of the year. 
_________________
[Last line from The Hulk (2003)] 
Bruce Banner: You're making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

			*	*	*

Thread 37

Posted: 29 Jul 2004 03:11 pm    Post subject: W2 102.5
By Ant-Man

W2 102.5 

I saw this appearance listed in the MCP, and I was wondering if I could get some clarification on what it is (sorry if this has been previously addressed) 

Is it a story within W2 #102, or is it a separate issue? 

Thanks!

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Jul 2004 06:39 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

It's a different book. Wolverine 102 1/2. Kind of like Avengers 1 1/2, which is listed here as A 1.5, to avoid confusion with our normal scheme. 


watching: jeopardy

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Jul 2004 08:16 pm    
By Dhall

The 1/2 books, are Wizard special books. They're canon, and contain new usually short comics. For example there's an X-Men 1/2, a Genertaion X 1/2, etc.

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Jul 2004 08:31 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Er, most of them are. I believe the Wolverine book was published in conjunction with American Entertainment, and the Avengers issue mentioned above was a regular Marvel book. 


watching: 8-year-old machine pitch championship

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Jul 2004 07:04 am    Post subject: Captain America: What Price Glory
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Yesterday I picked up a bargain copy of Captain America: What Price Glory #1 (May 2003), the first of a four-part mini-series. The topical reference to the Gulf War in issue #1 indicates that the series is meant to occur sometime in the recent past. From the plot, it's clear that Cap's identity is not common knowledge, so the series must occur before CA4 1. Calendar clues in issue #1 include a full moon, leafy trees, and long sleeves. 

Are there clues in issues #2-4 that can help us nail down a placement for this series?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Jul 2004 01:28 pm    
By John Simons

In terms of weather, most of the series takes place in Vegas, and it is hot Steve's whole time there. It also seems to be warm in NY as the women wear sleeveless dresses/blouses. There is no shot of the entire moon in issue 2-4, but we do see sections of it, and it always seems full or close to full. 

The biggest indicatior of placement in the 2-4 may be the very last scene in 4, in which Steve and Tina are standing at the top of the Empire State Building looking south to where the Twin Towers used to be. On the last page a hazy mirage of the Twin Towers appears where they once stood. So this mini must occur sometime during Cap's Marvel Knights run.

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Jul 2004 07:17 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

But I got the impression that this series occurs before Cap's identity is publicly known, and that places it before CA4 1. Knowing that it occurs after 9-11 helps. My inclination is to place it in the summer, sometime between Captain America: Dead Man Running and Cap's Marvel Knights run. 

Hey, John...would you be willing to post a synopsis of issues #2-4? That would enable me to place all four issues on the calendar.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Jul 2004 01:50 am    
By John Simons

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
But I got the impression that this series occurs before Cap's identity is publicly known, and that places it before CA4 1. Knowing that it occurs after 9-11 helps. 
<<<


Huh? The opening of CA4 1 occurs on 9/12. Then there is a "seven months later" caption moving the story forward to the Al-Tariq attack on Centerville. Cap doesn't reveal his identity until the end of this attack in, iirc, CA4 3. Without actually going back to check your calendar, is there no time during the seven months between the beginning and end of CA4 1 for this mini to occur? 


Quote: 
>>>
Hey, John...would you be willing to post a synopsis of issues #2-4? That would enable me to place all four issues on the calendar. 
<<<


Yes, although looking at my schedule the next few days, the earliest I will be able to post it is Sunday morning.

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Jul 2004 06:59 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
The opening of CA4 1 occurs on 9/12. Then there is a "seven months later" caption moving the story forward to the Al-Tariq attack on Centerville. Cap doesn't reveal his identity until the end of this attack in, iirc, CA4 3. Without actually going back to check your calendar, is there no time during the seven months between the beginning and end of CA4 1 for this mini to occur?  
<<<

That's what I meant. I wasn't counting the opening of CA4 1, which I view as a prelude. If you check the calendar, you'll see that Dead Man Running occurs during the gap between that prelude and the end of the issue. My proposal is to place What Price Glory between Dead Man Running and the end of CA4 1, which I was considering to be the real start of the Marvel Knights run. Sorry for the confusion. 


Quote: 
>>>
Yes, although looking at my schedule the next few days, the earliest I will be able to post it is Sunday morning. 
<<<

That would be great. Thanks!
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 39

Posted: 31 Jul 2004 09:02 pm    Post subject: Arishem the Judge in Doctor Strange II#26/2
By Enda80

Arishem the Judge appears in Doctor Strange II#26/2. 


ARISHEM [CELESTIAL] 
A 339-FB 
**DRSTR2 26/2-FB 
T@ 7-FB-BTS 
T 300-FB 
{E 2} 
E 3 


Arishem the Judge is seen leaving Earth as the Caretakers of Arcturus arive on Earth. (FF I#316 stated that the Caretakers arrived on Earth at the time of the sinking of Lemuria, which the Hyborian Essay places at 18,000 BCE.) 

Later on, we see three panels of a group of Deviants engaging in experiments on a normal humam being. Three of these Deviants are seen looking at a pit which holds a group of Moloids. 

Implicilty, as the story is told, the Deviant's creation of the Moloids took place as the Caretakers worked on the creation of werewolves. The creation of werewolves must have taken 
place before Conan was born circa 10,000 BCE. Why? Because, in Doctor Strange III#26/2Conan was shown in a one-panel flashback battling a werewolf. The letters page to Doctor Strange III#31 confirms that that was Conan. (This letters page also admits that a character in the story makes a mistake when he says that the Caretakers of Arcturus arrived 10,000 years ago.)

			*	*	*

Thread 40

Posted: 16 Jun 2004 09:52 pm    Post subject: Ultimate Marvel Universe Chronology version 1.5
By jimmyflowers

NOTES: 
--Ultimate Fantastic Four may not be in it's permanent position. It depends on what the writers do. I will move it in the next update if it seems appropriate. 
--Notice that Reed Richards appears in a flashback in Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 5, which the writers of Ultimate FF have yet to mention. This lends more evidence to the fact that the series is "retroactive." 
--Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 009 is currently non-canon, but this may also change. 

Ultimates 010-FB1 (Pages 2-5) 
Ultimates 010-FB2 (Pages 6-7) 
Ultimates 001 (Pages 1 through 23) 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 001 (Pages 1-2) 
Ultimate Team-Up 005-FB (Page 3, panels 3-4) 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 001 (Pages 3-17) 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 001 (Pages 18+) 
Ultimate Adventures 005-FB1 (Pages 14-17) 
Ultimate Adventures 005-FB2 (Page 19, panels 2, 4+ through Page 21) 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 002 (Pages 1-14) 
Ultimate Team-Up 005-FB (Page 3, panel 5) 
Ultimate Team-Up 005-FB (Page 3, panel 6) 
Ultimate X-Men 011-FB (Pages 1 through 9) 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 002 (Pages 15+) 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 003 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 004 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 005 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 006 
Ultimate Fantastic Four 007 
Ultimate Adventures 005-FB3 (Page 22, panel 2 through Page 23) 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 005-FB (Pages 2-3, 6, 9, 13-14, 16-19) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 033-FB (Page 8, panel 4 through Page 11) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB01 (Pages 2-5) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB02 (Pages 6-9) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB03 (Pages 10-11) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB04 (Pages 12-13) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB05 (Pages 14-15) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB06 (Pages 16-17) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB07 (Pages 18-20) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB08 (Page 21, panel 1) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB09 (Page 21, panel 2) 
Ultimate X-Men 026-FB10 (Page 21, panel 3) 
Ultimate Daredevil & Elektra 1 
Ultimate Daredevil & Elektra 2 
Ultimate Daredevil & Elektra 3 
Ultimate Daredevil & Elektra 4 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 012-FB (Pages 2 through 3) 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 014-FB1 (Pages 1 through 2) 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 010-FB (Pages 6 through 10) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 001 
Ultimate Spider-Man 002 
Ultimate Spider-Man 003 
Ultimate Spider-Man 004 
Ultimate Spider-Man 005 
Ultimate X-Men 001 
Ultimate X-Men 003-FB (Page 7, panel 4) 
Ultimate X-Men 002 
Ultimate Spider-Man 006 
Ultimate Spider-Man 007 
Ultimate X-Men 003 
Ultimate X-Men 004 
Ultimate Spider-Man 008 
Ultimate Spider-Man 009 
Ultimate Spider-Man 010 
Ultimate Spider-Man 011 
Ultimate Spider-Man 012 
Ultimate X-Men 005 
Ultimate X-Men 006 
Ultimate X-Men One-Half 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 001 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 002 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 003 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 004 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 014-FB2 (Page 3) 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 005 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 006 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 007 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 008 
Ultimate Spider-Man 013 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 009 
Ultimate Spider-Man Super Special (Pages 1-25) 
Ultimate Spider-Man Super Special (Pages 26-28) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 014 
Ultimate Spider-Man 015 
Ultimate Spider-Man 016 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 010 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 011 
Ultimate X-Men 007 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 012 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 013 
Ultimate X-Men 008 
Ultimate X-Men 009 
Ultimate X-Men 010 
Ultimate X-Men 011 
Ultimate X-Men 012 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 014 
Ultimate Spider-Man 017 
Ultimate Spider-Man 018 
Ultimate Spider-Man 019 
Ultimate Spider-Man 020 (Pages 1-18) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 046-FB1 (Page 6) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 020 (Pages 19+) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 021 (Pages 1-12) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 046-FB2 (Pages 7-31) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 021 (Pages 13+) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 046 (Pages 2-5 and 32) 
Ultimate X-Men 013 
Ultimate X-Men 014 
Ultimates 001 (Page 24+) 
Ultimate X-Men 015 
Ultimates 002 
Ultimates 003 
Ultimates 004 (Pages 1 through 13) 
Ultimate Spider-Man Super Special (Pages 29-30) 
Ultimate Spider-Man Super Special (Pages 31+) 
Ultimate X-Men 016 
Ultimate X-Men 017 
Ultimate X-Men 018 
Ultimate X-Men 019 
Ultimate X-Men 020 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 015 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 016 
Ultimate Spider-Man One-Half 
Ultimate Spider-Man 022 
Ultimate Spider-Man 023 
Ultimate Spider-Man 024 
Ultimate Spider-Man 025 
Ultimate Spider-Man 026 
Ultimate Spider-Man 027 
Ultimates 004 (Pages 14+) 
Ultimates 005 
Ultimates 006 (Pages 1-5) 
Ultimate Adventures 001 
Ultimate Adventures 002 
Ultimate Adventures 003 
Ultimate Adventures 004 
Ultimate Adventures 005 
Ultimate Adventures 006 
Ultimates 006 (Pages 6+) 
Ultimates 007 
Ultimates 008 
Ultimates 009 
Ultimates 010 
Ultimates 011 
Ultimates 012 
Ultimates 013 
Ultimate X-Men 021 
Ultimate X-Men 022 
Ultimate X-Men 023 
Ultimate X-Men 024 
Ultimate X-Men 029-FB1 (Pages 2-7) 
Ultimate X-Men 029-FB2 (Pages 10-11) 
Ultimate X-Men 025 
Ultimate X-Men 029-FB3 (Page 14 panels 1-3) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 028 
Ultimate War 1 
Ultimate War 2 
Ultimate War 3 
Ultimate War 4 
Ultimate Spider-Man 029 
Ultimate Spider-Man 030 
Ultimate Spider-Man 031 
Ultimate Spider-Man 032 
Ultimate Spider-Man 045-FB (Pages 9-10) 
Ultimate X-Men 026 (Pages 22-24) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 033 
Ultimate Spider-Man 034 
Ultimate Spider-Man 035 
Ultimate Spider-Man 036 
Ultimate Spider-Man 037 
Ultimate Spider-Man 038 
Ultimate Spider-Man 039 
Ultimate X-Men 027 
Ultimate X-Men 028 
Ultimate X-Men 029-FB4 (Page 14 panel 4 through Page 16) 
Ultimate X-Men 029 
Ultimate X-Men 030 
Ultimate X-Men 031 
Ultimate X-Men 032 (Pages 1-10) 
Ultimate Spider-Man 040 
Ultimate Spider-Man 041 
Ultimate Spider-Man 042 
Ultimate Spider-Man 043 
Ultimate Spider-Man 044 
Ultimate Spider-Man 045 
Ultimate X-Men 032 (Pages 11+) 
Ultimate X-Men 033 
Ultimate X-Men 034 
Ultimate X-Men 035 
Ultimate X-Men 036 
Ultimate X-Men 037 
Ultimate X-Men 038 
Ultimate X-Men 039 
Ultimate Six 1 
Ultimate Six 2 
Ultimate Six 3 
Ultimate Six 4 
Ultimate Six 5 
Ultimate Six 6 
Ultimate Six 7 
Ultimate Spider-Man 047 
Ultimate Spider-Man 048 
Ultimate Spider-Man 049 
Ultimate Spider-Man 050 
Ultimate Spider-Man 051 
Ultimate Spider-Man 052 
Ultimate Spider-Man 053 
Ultimate X-Men 040 
Ultimate X-Men 041 
Ultimate X-Men 042 
Ultimate X-Men 043 
Ultimate X-Men 044 
Ultimate X-Men 045 
Ultimate Spider-Man 054 
Ultimate Spider-Man 055 
Ultimate Spider-Man 056 
Ultimate Spider-Man 057 
Ultimate Spider-Man 058 
Ultimate Spider-Man 059 (Pages 1-18) 
Ultimate X-Men 046 
Ultimate X-Men 047 
Ultimate Spider-Man 060 
Ultimate Spider-Man 059 (Pages 19-20) 

I'm sure that more issues of Ult. X-Men will follow 47, but that's the latest issue I have at the moment. 

Also the last few pages of Ult. Spidey 59 take place 4 months after the end of the rest of the issue, so for now, this is where it will be placed, but future issues of Spidey may occur prior to these pages.

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Jun 2004 10:37 pm    
By PopularLoser

jimmyflowers wrote: 
>>>
NOTES: 
--Notice that Reed Richards appears in a flashback in Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 5, which the writers of Ultimate FF have yet to mention. 
<<<


The way I always looked at the reference to Reed Richards going to college with Tony Stark, was that it referred to a bio in the Ultimate Universe written by SHIELD to cover for the Baxter project, the Fantastic Four, and Reed's true origins.
_________________
<Insert Signature Here>

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Jul 2004 06:37 pm    
By Marvologist

There was actually an official announcement concerning Ultimate Marvel Team-Up #9 being non-canon? That's interesting. It's disappointing that even with the Ultimate universe, planned from the beginning to be a cohesive world, has already needed to disqualify something from the continuity. Up till now, it has seemed more neat and tidy as a continuity than the gigantic mess that Marvel and DC has in their histories.
_________________
I want to know everything.

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Jul 2004 11:20 pm    
By jimmyflowers

Actually, Bendis I believe said that he plans to make Ultimate Marvel Team-Up 9 canon in an interesting way. He said, "It will be resolved in one panel." My guess is that the issue will be one of the following: a comic book that exists in the Ultimate Universe, an alternate universe, or a flash forward of some sort. Who knows? Time will tell I guess... 

But I agree with you, one of the best things about the Ultimate Universe is it is much easier to read it all . . . the entire universe.

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Thread 41

Posted: 01 Jul 2004 12:32 pm    Post subject: Runaways #1-10
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

PRIDE AND JOY 
Part 1: RUNAWAYS #1 (July 2003) by Brian K Vaughan, Adrian Alphona and David Newbold 
Part 2: RUNAWAYS #2 (August 2003) by Vaughan, Alphona and Newbold 
Part 3: RUNAWAYS #3 (September 2003) by Vaughan, Alphona and Newbold 
Part 4: RUNAWAYS #4 (October 2003) by Vaughan, Alphona and Newbold 
Part 5: RUNAWAYS #5 (November 2003) by Vaughan, Alphona and Newbold 
Part 6: RUNAWAYS #6 (November 2003) by Vaughan, Alphona and Newbold 

GENERAL COMMENTS: 
Malibu. Green trees. The Saturday/Sunday night is a full moon. 

The story covers two days, and a total period of < 24 hours. 


SYNOPSIS: 
RUNAWAYS #1, RUNAWAYS #2 pp1-11: Malibu, California. The Runaways gather for the party and see their parents as the Pride. Karolina is sent away with Molly and the others see the Pride kill a hooker. // The Runaways conceal everything from Molly and agree to meet up again overnight. 

Characters: Alex Wilder, Gertrude Yorkes, Karolina Dean, Chase Stein, Molly Hayes, Nico Minoru, Geoffrey & Mrs Wilder, Dale & Mrs Yorkes, Mr & Mrs Dean, Mr & Mrs Stein, Dr & Dr Hayes, Mr & Mrs Minoru 

[Alex has been playing the computer game "all day" - so it's either a weekend or a school holiday. Molly is expecting to go to school the next day: issue #6. So it's Sunday.] 

RUNAWAYS #2 pp12-23; RUNAWAYS #3-6 : The Griffith Observatory, 1.03am. The Runaways - minus Molly - meet up to discuss what to do. By a majority they vote to call the police. But the officer who takes the call does not believe them. 2am: the Runaways are on the Santa Monica freeway. 2.45am: The Runaways arrive at the Yorkes' house and find a hidden compartment in the basement, containing Gertrude's trained velociraptor. // In issue #3, they continue to deal with the raptor, and then head along the Ventura freeway to Carolina's house. They arrive there at 4.15am. Searching the Dean's papers, they find a message which leads Karolina to remove the MedAlert bracelet that has been suppressing her powers. Meanwhile, the Wilders are phoned by a corrupt police officer to whom Alex's call has been reported. // The Wilders are afraid to warnthe other members of the Pride. Meanwhile, the Runaways ponder how to save Molly. They decide to head to Chase's home, which is en route. The Runaways arrive at 5am and go into the Steins' workshop, where they find various Kirbytech; Chase finds his Fistigons. The Steins and the Minorus interrupt and attack. Nico absorbs the Staff of One when her mother attacks her. With the raptor's aid, the Runaways escape and head for the San Bernardino Freeway. The Yorkes and Hayes phone, and threaten to hurt Molly if the Runaways do not return home. // Leslie Dean returns to Malibu and joins the Yorkes and Steins. At 6.30am, the Runaways attack the home, and the Staff emerges from Nico to give her her powers. When Nico reaches Molly, Molly's mutant powers emerge. // Molly is confused but sees off Mrs Dean. The Runaways flee into downtown LA. There, they learn that Mr Wilder controls the police and media, so there is no point going to the authorities. While the Pride find a note from an anonymous Runaway professing loyalty, the Runaways head to an abandoned cave, the Hostel, which is going to be their base. They arrive at 10.30am. The Runaways assign themselves codenames: Arsenic (Gertrude), Old Lace (her raptor), Lucy in the Sky (Karolina), Sister Grimm (Nico), Neo (Chase) and Bruiser (Molly) 

Characters: Alex Wilder, Gertrude Yorkes, Karolina Dean, Chase Stein, Molly Hayes (#2,#4-6), Nico Minoru, Old Lace (#2-6), Mr & Mrs Wilder (#3-4, 6), Mr & Mrs Minoru (#3-4, 6), Mr & Mrs Stein (#3-4), Mr & Mrs Yorke (#4-6), Dr & Dr Hayes (#4-6), Leslie Dean (#5-6) 

[Monday. The slashes mark issue breaks.] 

========== 

TEENAGE WASTELAND 
RUNAWAYS #7-10 (December 2003 to March 2004) 
by Brian K Vaughan, Adrian Alphona and Craig Yeung 

GENERAL COMMENTS: 
Starts "two days" after the Runaways disappeared; thus, Wednesday. Green leaves. Lasts one night, which is the Wednesday night to Thursday morning. In issue #10, Arsenic correctly says that she hasn't slept in four days (the last time she slept was on Saturday/Sunday). 

Over the course of the story, the art is inconsistent as to whether it's a full moon or a crescent. 

SYNOPSIS: 
* RUNAWAYS #7, pp1-12. "Two days" after the previous arc (thus, Wednesday). The Minoru residence, 10.55pm - the Pride discuss the Runaways' disappearance. The Hostel, 11pm - the Runaways despatch Sister Grimm, Lucy in the Sky, Alex and Talkback to go into town and get food with their remaining money. 

Characters: Alex Wilder, Arsenic, Lucy in the Sky, Talkback, Bruiser, Sister Grimm, Old Lace, The Deans, the Steins, the Minorus, the Hayes, the Wilders, the Yorkes 

* RUNAWAYS #7, pp13-22. The same night, past midnight. 1.39am. Los Feliz, California. Alex Wilder, Sister Grimm, Lucy in the Sky and Talkback arrive at the convenience store to find that it's being robbed. The Runaways stop the robbery, and pick up Topher, who claims to be the victim of evil parents. (As we learn later, he's actually a vampire, and they're his thralls.) 

Characters: Alex Wilder, Lucy in the Sky, Sister Grimm, Talkback, Topher, two other vampires. 

* RUNAWAYS #8. Direct continuation. Alex Wilder, Lucy in the Sky, Sister Grimm and Talkback invite Topher to return with them to the Hostel. Topher accepts. The Runaways leave in Talkback's van, and shake off the police who give chase. 

2.13am, the Wilder residence. The Wilders have been e-mailed security camera footage of the Runaways in the store, by a contact in the police. (Mr Wilder's first name is given as Geoffrey.) The Wilders agree that, if the kids are going to play superhero, it is particularly important to find them before they take on somebody out of their league. 

2.24am. Topher and the four Runaways arrive back at the Hostel, and meet the other Runaways. Talkback and Arsenic aren't entirely happy about Topher, and Old Lace attacks him on sight (before being subdued by Bruiser). Sister Grimm talks with Topher in her room. Alex watches through a spyhole and sees them kissing. 

Characters: Alex Wilder, Lucy in the Sky, Sister Grimm, Talkback, Arsenic, Bruiser, Old Lace, Topher 

* RUNAWAYS #9. Direct continuation. 2.35am. Alex interrupts Sister Grimm and Topher, and Topher leaves. Alex tells Sister Grimm that he was watching her. She is understandably furious. Alex tries to explain that he discovered the tunnels earlier, but was only watching her for the first time tonight, because he distrusts Topher. Meanwhile, Topher heads off to have a similar conversation with Lucy in the Sky. They also kiss. Sister Grimm interrupts, and a catfight breaks out until Arsenic breaks them up. 

Meanwhile, the various Pride members discuss the convenience store fight by conference call. They have worked out who the criminals were. (Mr Yorke, who isn't actually seen, is named for the first time as Dale.) 

Sister Grimm heads out of the hostel to sulk. Topher follows her and attacks her, revealing himself as a vampire. 

Characters: Alex Wilder, Arsenic, Bruiser, Lucy in the Sky, Sister Grimm, Talkback, Old Lace, Topher, the Wilders, the Hayes, Leslie Dean, Victor Stein, Mrs Yorke, the Minorus 

* RUNAWAYS #10. Direct continuation. 2.58am. Topher gives us a version of his origin, claiming to be a teenager who was turned into a vampire in 1916. He wants to turn Sister Grimm into a vampire. Alex turns up and saves Sister Grimm. They retreat to the Hostel, but Topher recovers and follows. Topher fights the Runaways. Lucy asks him to turn her into a vampire, claiming to be suicidal. Topher bites her, only to find that her alien physiology is lethal to him. Topher is destroyed. The other Runaways assume that Lucy made a correct guess - Lucy's demeanour indicates that she may in fact have been sincere. 

"The next morning" [ie, when daylight comes], the other two vampires are interrogated in a warehouse by Dale Yorkes, the female Dr Hayes, and Mr Minoru. The vampires explain that Topher has been destroyed, which they can sense because of their link with him as their sire. Having no further use for the vampires, the Pride members destroy them. They are proud of their children's achievement in destroying a vampire. 

Characters: Alex Wilder, Arsenic, Bruiser, Lucy in the Sky, Sister Grimm, Talkback, Old Lace, Topher & two other vampires (destroyed), Dale Yorkes, Dr Hayes (F), Mr Minoru
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 01 Jul 2004 10:20 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Thanks for the synopsis, Paul. Before I add this to the calendar, a couple of questions. Where exactly do the full and crescent moons occur? Does this story work better in the fall or spring of a school year?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 01 Jul 2004 11:19 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Wasn't there a reference to this series in Mystique #11? 

If that series takes place in the long summer the X-Men have been having, then Runaways should occur in the spring beforehand... 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 02 Jul 2004 05:55 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Don't remember anything about it in MYSTIQUE #11, but I don't have the issue to hand. 

There's nothing that would tend to indicate the time of year, beyond the fact that the trees are in leaf and that school is in session. 

The moons in the second arc is just plain inconsistent. I assume that one moon was added by the penciller and another by the colourist.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 02 Jul 2004 07:25 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Paul O'Brien said: 
>>>
The moons in the second arc is just plain inconsistent. I assume that one moon was added by the penciller and another by the colourist. 
<<<


It's certainly not the first time we've seen inconsistent lunar phases in a story, but I do like to note lunar phases in the calendar notes for each issue or daily segment. It would be good to know where in this series we see a full moon or a crescent moon and which phase is most prevalent. (For crescent moons, please note if they're waxing or waning. Waning looks like a "C," waxing like a backward "C.") 


Jeph York said: 
>>>
Wasn't there a reference to this series in Mystique #11?  
<<<


Yes, as a matter of fact there is such a reference. In MYS 11-FB, Forge says, "Haven't you heard about those teenage runaways in Los Angeles who supposedly murdered some girl?" The reference sounds like it's recent news. That means that MYS 11-FB (which I have placed on June 21) occurs shortly after this RUNAWAYS story (is the murder reference to the prostitute in issue #1?). Given the school reference in RUNAWAYS, I'm likely to place these issues on a Sunday and Monday in late May or early June. The lunar phase references may help pin down exact dates.
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 42

Posted: 01 Jul 2004 04:42 pm    Post subject: X-Men Collector's Edition#2 and X-Men Premium Edition#1
By Enda80

Picked these up at Bedrock Comics recently. I will summarize them soon. They were released via Toys R'Us and Pizza Hut, and feature an appearance by Phantazia.

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Posted: 01 Jul 2004 10:54 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I don't think the Pizza Hut ones are canon -- as far as I can remember, they took place in the Fox Kids cartoon universe. If you can prove/disprove that, though, I'd greatly appreciate it. 

Not sure about the Toys'R'Us one... 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 02 Jul 2004 03:04 pm    
By DCW3

I have X-Men Collector's Edition #3-4 (the Pizza Hut ones). I can do analyses if you need them. 

They're very close to the Fox cartoon universe, but they don't quite fit there: Bishop is a member of the team in this series, and I don't recall Bishop ever becoming an X-Man in the cartoon. 

From the two issues I have, I think that they could fit into the mainstream canon, but only very awkwardly. The problem is issue #3, in which Magneto attacks Muir Island to free Unuscione, who's being held there, and is pretty easily driven off by Beast and Storm. 

Because of the team's lineup and costumes, this would have to be placed in the brief period between Magneto's return in UX 304 and his incapacitation in X 25. It's very awkward to have Magneto return to Earth during this time, and even more problematically, the Beast's quick defeat of Magneto with a makeshift weapon clashes badly with the near-omnipotent Magneto portrayed in this period: in X 25, the X-Men view their upcoming battle with Magneto on Avalon as a virtual suicide mission. But these are just characterization issues, not insurmountable continuity contradictions. (There are other problems, like the fact that Unuscione would have to be captured and presumably escape between issues, but these are more easily explained away.) 

My opinion is that it would be worth shoving these issues into the canon if they were mainstream Marvel publications--but not for issues put out by Pizza Hut. You'll have to make the determination for yourself, of course.

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Posted: 02 Jul 2004 03:21 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I used to own #1-2 of these -- and if I recall correctly, in issue #2 Sabretooth says something like "Ha! That's for leaving me in the Savage Land!" 

I can't recall a Sabretooth-in-the-Savage-Land story ever, so I took it as a reference to a cartoon episode. Of course, the issue is long gone now, but can anyone help clarify or shed light on that reference? 

-Jeph!

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Thread 43

Posted: 03 Jul 2004 03:49 am    Post subject: Wolverine v3 #7-11
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Hey, kids, it's finally done! Thanks for waiting patiently for this, Paul B. ... and happy 4th of July to everyone. 

-Jeph! 

-------- 

Wolverine v3 #7-11 
"Coyote Crossing" 

General notes: I'm working from the TPB version of this storyline. I have the single issues #7, 9, and 10, but if any chronology information is given in the recap pages for #8 and #11, I'm missing it. 

Wolverine v3 #7 

Outside of El Paso, Texas, Wolverine interrupts a convenience store robbery, and discovers a tractor trailer full of Mexican corpses. They were illegal immigrants, and all died of heatstroke while locked inside. Wolvie heads into El Paso to enlist the help of an old friend of his, a bartender named Garcia Nestor, in tracking down the immigrant smuggling ring. Meanwhile, in Portland, ATF agent Cassie Lathrop tries fruitlessly to track Logan down  and just as she's given up, she spies his El Paso activities on the evening news 

Appearances: 
Wolverine 
Merrick (unknown if that's his first or last name  probably last) 
Mr. Lake 
Sycamore Blaine (last in W3 #2  first name revealed here) 
Agent Cassandra "Cassie" Lathrop, ATF (last in W3 #6) 
Garcia Nestor 
Angel (Nestor's bartender  that's "Angel" with an accent over the A, at least when his name is spoken in the Spanish word balloons.) 
Marcia Zandi (newscaster) 

Temporal references: 
The issue takes place "107 miles NNE of El Paso" and in El Paso itself, and in Portland, Oregon, over the course of a single day. Looks like mid-morning in Texas in the beginning, and evening in Portland at the end  Cassie is watching the evening news and the sun has set. We see pine trees and cacti, mostly  the only visible green foliage is on Cassie's lawn in Portland. 

According to the recap page, Cassie has been searching for Logan for "two months". If, as I do, you don't believe that the recap page info is fully canonical, then Cassie asks Blaine if he's seen Logan recently  "might've been a couple months ago". Both references are to W3 #1-6. 

By the way, the temporal clues in W3 #1-6 were that it took place "a couple months" after "December", and "three or four months" after XU #38, which itself took place exactly one year after UX #390  which took place shortly after Christmas (X #109). 

I believe we placed XU #38 in early January, to account for Kitty's school being in session  but she could have been staying at the dorms over winter break, I suppose. In any case, XU #38 was either late December or early January. 

So, if XU #38 was in Dec/Jan  I personally would place W3 #1-6 in late March or early April, to balance out both the "couple months after December" and "3-4 months after XU #38" references. 

So if W3 #7-11 take place "two" to "a couple" months after W3 #1-6  late May? Early June? In any case, chronologically I suggest that they occur in the nice gap between X #141-142. 

(By the way, Logan is wearing his dog tags in this arc, suggesting that this is before he returns to his ReLoad costume in the new AX3 #1.) 

By the way, Blaine mentions that he and Logan served together in Vietnam  "over thirty years ago, now". I know, it's not much help, but hey, it's a temporal reference and I thought I'd flag it up. 

Notes: 
How far should we take this BTS thing? Should Ritter get a BTS for this issue, since he organized the truckload of immgrants? Should Rojas, the crimelord, get a BTS for being the head of the drug-smuggling ring? Since she's pregnant, should her baby get a BTS for all the times she appears BTS?  

I'm not going to credit anyone with a BTS in this write-up unless their off-panel actions had a DIRECT effect on the action. For me, Ritter, being the guy who organized the truckload of immigrants is borderline  but Rojas simply being the head of the organization (like the Kingpin) is not. What do you all think? Should Ritter get a BTS here or not? 

Also, there's some Spanish dialogue between Wolvie, Nestor, and Angel in this issue  I'm hoping that there's no relevant chronology information in there, but if anyone knows what it said, please hook me up. 

---- 

Wolverine v3 #8 

Cassie Lathrop has travelled to El Paso, where she shows Logan's sketch to the Border Patrol. Meanwhile, Logan tracks down Ian Ritter, the man who organized the truckload of immigrants  but when he confronts him, Ritter is killed by his assistant, who then sets the building on fire. The Border Patrol shows up, and Cassie leaps into the fire to save Logan  who, of course, then has to save her. That night, acting on the information he got from Ritter's assistant, Logan swims the Rio into Mexico 

Appearances: 
Wolverine 
Mr. Lake 
Special Agent Aguinaga, El Paso Border Patrol 
Len (Aguinaga's assistant) 
Cassandra Lathrop 
Ian Ritter 
Mendes (Ritter's assistant) 
Garcia Nestor 

Temporal references: 
This is presumably the day after #7. Cassie has had time to get from Portland to El Paso, though  presumably by plane  so it's probably afternoon. That fits with the sky  it's still light out when Logan goes to confront Ritter, but just after sunset when he exits the burning building with Cassie. It's night when he swims the Rio  and evidence from next issue tells me it's still before midnight. No moon, thank goodness  no moons in any of these issues.  

---- 

Wolverine v3 #9 

In Mexico, Wolvie confronts some of Rojas' men, while in El Paso, Cassie tracks down Nestor's bar. Wolvie forces one of the men to drive him to Rojas' estate, but the other two call ahead  and many armed guards are waiting when Wolvie arrives. True to form, he cuts them all down, and comes face-to-face with Rojas  who is revealed to be a pregnant woman. 

Appearances: 
Wolverine 
Sandro 
Hector 
Ruben (Rojas' men) 
Cassandra Lathrop 
Special Agent Aguinaga 
Angel 
Garcia Nestor 
Felix (Rojas' gatekeeper) 
Angelica Rojas 
Angelica Murillo (Rojas' unborn child, named in #11)  BTS 

Temporal references: the issue begins at night, at closing time at the Border Patrol offices  which doesn't tell us much, as I'm sure the Border Patrol keeps late hours. It's presumably still before midnight on the same day as #8, as Nestor mentions on p.8 that Cassie jumped into the burning building "earlier today". However, it could be just after midnight  I think we all have a tendency to refer to the day's events as having occured "today", even though midnight may have passed, until we actually go to sleep. 

Next issue will show that Logan's confrontation with Rojas occurs at closing time at Nestor's bar, and El Paso bars close by law at 2am. So if Logan's arrival at Rojas' estate on p.14 occurs just before 2am, and we take Nestor's "earlier today" comment on p.8 literally, then the best place for midnight to fall is between pp.13-14  between Logan's fight with the three men, and his arrival at Rojas' estate. This would mean that it took him just under two hours to get to Rojas' estate from where he came ashore  and when he returns to Nestor's bar in #10, it's pre-dawn  meaning it took him another two hours or more to travel from the estate to the border, swim the Rio, and return to Nestor's bar. (That'll be relevant in a bit.) 

Also remember, for what it's worth, we're in Texas' time zone here. Paul, if you care about separating things by when midnight falls in the Eastern time zone, then the entire issue probably occurs after midnight. 

In this issue, Nestor notes that Logan told him that Cassie has been chasing him for SIX months  which is inconsistent with Cassie's "couple of months" reference from #7. The word "six" is highlighted in Nestor's dialogue  bold and italicized  and I choose to believe that he was exaggerating. Still, this would tend to make me interpret the "couple of months" reference as meaning closer to three months than two  which would definitely push the arc into June. 

Still no real green foliage, and no weather clues  it's El Paso, and the cacti and scrub plants are pretty much consistent all year. Clear skies at night, with no visible moons in any issue. 

Notes: 
Cassie's list of possible contacts for Logan has Nestor's name as "Nestor, Garcia", last name first  but every other name on her list is the other way around, first-name-last. Also, Logan calls him "Nestor" in a familiar fashion  and every time I've encountered the name "Garcia", it's been a LAST name, not a first. 

However, in #10, Angel refers to him as "Mister Nestor"  so I'm unsure. I'm starting to suspect that the comma on Cassie's list is an art error, and this character's name is actually Nestor Garcia  thoughts, anyone? I'm leaving it as "Garcia Nestor" unless I get some feedback to the contrary. 

---- 

Wolverine v3 #10 

It's closing time at Nestor's bar, but Cassie continues to drink and refuses to leave. Meanwhile in Mexico, Logan confronts Rojas, who reveals that the immigrants had all swallowed heroin-filled condoms and were smuggling them into the US. She taunts Wolvie, daring him to to kill her, but he refuses, struggling to control himself. As soon as he storms out, Rojas goes into labor. Logan returns to Nestor's bar to sleep, and finds Cassie waiting. She asks to stay, and he offers her the couch. When she awakens many hours later, Logan is gone  Nestor said he went back across the river, with "unfinished business"  and at that moment, Logan bursts through the door of the bar, holding a crying newborn 

Appearances: 
Angel 
Cassandra Lathrop 
Garcia Nestor 
Wolverine 
Angelica Rojas 
Angelica Murillo 

Temporal references: 
Nestor's bar is closing, and by El Paso law that makes it 2am as the issue opens. Now, as I said before, it seems like it took Wolvie just under two hours to get from the Rio to Rojas' estate  and when he returns to the bar in this issue, it's nearly dawn  meaning it looks like it took him two hours or more to return home. 

Now, Wolvie reveals in #11 that it had been about "twenty hours" between the time he left Rojas and the time he returned, to find her in labor. If it takes him two-plus hours to return to the bar the second time  possibly longer, since he's carrying a baby this time  that adds up to 22+ hours, making it past midnight when he returns. 

(Interestingly though, when Logan returns, a store that sells diapers, baby formula and bottles is open. I guess it must be a 24-hour store) 

Now, when Cassie wakes up to find Logan gone back to Mexico, the bar is open and the sky is blue with stars, but her room appears to be lit by daylight  much moreso than when Logan returned at dawn. The stars and the light in the room contradict each other  so I'm just going to assume that the light in her room is artificial. (Maybe a streetlight shining in, maybe the lights in the room are on for some reason.) In any case, it can't still be daylight out when Cassie wakes up if it's past midnight when she goes downstairs  even with her horrible hangover, there's no way she took 4+ hours to clean herself up before venturing downstairs to ask where Logan was. Therefore, despite the lighting effects in Cassie's room, it seems obvious that midnight falls between pp.17-18 of this issue. 

---- 

Wolverine v3 #11 

Wolverine reveals that when he returned to Rojas' estate, he found her in labor  he helped deliver her daughter, and Rojas died. The next day, he returns to her estate and searches for personal information, discovering that she has a sister who is married and living in Illinois. Wolvie tracks down the sister and convinces her to adopt Rojas' baby. Later, he shows up at Cassie Lathrop's house, and is invited in for the night. The end. 

Appearances: 
Angelica Murillo 
Garcia Nestor 
Cassandra Lathrop 
Angel 
Wolverine 
Maria Murillo 
Mr. Murillo (Maria's husband) 
(Maria's two children  unnamed) 

Flashback: 
There's a flashback on p.5, of Logan's return to Rojas' estate and the birth of her baby. This flashback happens, as discussed before, about "twenty hours" after Logan leaves Rojas' estate, meaning that it's around 10pm  and occurs between pp.17-18 of W3 #10. 

Flashback appearances: 
Wolverine 
Angelica Rojas 
Angelica Murillo (born) 

Temporal references: 
As I said before, the issue opens just after midnight. Pp.1-8 occur then, and pp.9-12 occur in the daytime  presumably the same day, as Logan returns to Rojas' to find looters ransacking the estate. P.13 occurs back at the bar, which is empty  presumably this too is the same day, before the bar opens. Green trees and bushes in El Paso and Rojas' estate. 

Pp.14-18 occur in Evanston, Illinois  and, get this, there's SNOW ON THE GROUND. Crap, huh? Earlier temporal references suggest placing it in late May or early June. Is snow in Illinios in late May too much of a stretch? (Yes.) Is anything weird happening with the Casket of Ancient Winters these days? (No.) Are we boned? (Yes.) 

For what it's worth, as I said elsewhere, Rucka's next storyline has a character commenting that it's "spring". Also, I think I remember fall foliage in Rucka's XU #38 story, a story that takes place on the one-year anniversary of an event that occurred just after Christmas. It looks like Rucka's got a solid idea of seasons passing in his stories  he's just not synced up with the seasons in the rest of the X-books. Unlocking his entire Wolverine run from the X-books and moving it back a few months looks fruitless to me (there's the Christmas in X #109 and the "couple of months after December" reference in W3 #2), so we may have to simply grin and bear the constant incorrect seasonal references. 

For what it's worth, there's no snow in Portland at the end of this issue  we get green trees and grass, and rain. 

Anyway, back to the rundown  pp.19-20 occur back in El Paso, as the Murillos have decided to adopt Angelica, and have travelled there from Illinois  the whole family  to pick her up. That's about 1500 miles, and the Murillos' blue Range Rover seen earlier is parked outside the bar  so they drove down. That's two days of dedicated driving, and remember, Logan drove UP there  which would have taken him two days as well. 

So, on the off-chance that the Murillos decided to adopt the baby that same day, it would now be four days after pp.1-13. However, I doubt that they decided that same day  so I'm going to add a day in there for them to decide. It could have been three days, it could have been that same day, but I think a single day is a good enough rough estimate. 

P.21 occurs at night, at Cassie's house in Portland  Wolvie has driven there from El Paso. This is around 1650 miles, but Logan probably drove like a madman. I doubt it's two days after pp.19-20, but it's probably at least the evening of the next day. 

A complete breakdown of the passage of days is below. 

By the way, the inscription on the back of the photograph Logan finds, "Mayo 94", is said to be "about ten years ago". Not much help, but hey, it's a temporal reference. It could be used to argue that this is May '04 

Time breakdown: 

Day 1: 
W3 #7 

Day 2: 
W3 #8 
W3 #9 pp.1-13 

Day 3: 
W3 #9 pp.14-21 
W3 #10 pp.1-17 
W3 #11 p.5-FB 

Day 4: 
W3 #10 pp.18-21 
W3 #11 pp.1-13 

Day 6: 
W3 #11 pp.14-18 

Day 9 (estimated): 
W3 #11 pp.19-20 

Day 10 (estimated): 
W3 #11 p.21 

Notes: 
Little Angelica is named after her mother, but never actually given a last name  I'm assuming that her adoptive family, the Murillos, will give her their own last name, as opposed to giving her her mother's first AND last names 

-------- 

And, finally, here's your MCP-style write-up for the characters involved. Of all of them, only Wolverine himself appears in books outside of the W3 series  and although I've postulated that this arc should be slotted between X #141-142, I'm sure Wolverine makes many other appearances in that gap  and I have no idea how to place this in relation to them. I figure, I'll let Paul use the temporal information given here to place it specifically, and then I'll disagree with him.  

As usual, new characters and new additions to existing characters are *starred. 


*AGUINAGA 
*W3 #8 
*W3 #9 

BLAINE, *SYCAMORE (first name revealed here) 
W3 #2 
*W3 #7 

*LAKE 
*W3 #7 
*W3 #8 

LATHROP, CASSANDRA "CASSIE" 
 
W3 #6 
*W3 #7 
*W3 #8 
*W3 #9 
*W3 #10 
*W3 #11 
(W3 #12) 

*MENDES 
*W3 #8 

*MERRICK 
*W3 #7 

*MURILLO 
*W3 #11 

*MURILLO, ANGELICA 
*W3 #9-BTS 
*W3 #10-BTS 
*W3 #11-FB 
*W3 #10 
*W3 #11 

*MURILLO, MARIA 
*W3 #11 

*NESTOR, GARCIA 
*W3 #7 
*W3 #8 
*W3 #9 
*W3 #10 
*W3 #11 

*RITTER, IAN 
*W3 #8 

*ROJAS, ANGELICA 
*W3 #9 
*W3 #10 
*W3 #11-FB 

WOLVERINE / JAMES HOWLETT / "LOGAN" 
 
*W3 #7 
*W3 #8 
*W3 #9 
*W3 #10 
*W3 #11-FB 
*W3 #10 
*W3 #11 
 

*ZANDI, MARCIA 
*W3 #7 

---- 

And, in the "first names only, probably won't get MCP listings" category 

*NGEL (that's "Angel" with an accent over the A) 
*W3 #7 
*W3 #9 
*W3 #10 
*W3 #11 

*FELIX 
*W3 #9 

*HECTOR 
*W3 #9 

*LEN 
*W3 #8 

*RUBEN 
*W3 #9 

*SANDRO 
*W3 #9 

To be honest, I'm not sure that Angel is his first or last name  but presumably it's his first. Of all of them, only Angel is really a major enough character to deserve a listing  although I'd hope to differentiate him from the other four existing "Angel" characters by the accent over his A, rather than by labelling him "Angel V".

			*	*	*

Posted: 04 Jul 2004 10:43 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Hey, Jeph. 

Here is my first theory about calendar placement of W3 7-11. 

Logan appears at X-Statix's California compound in X-STATIX 11 (after appearing in WOLVERINE/DOOP), so why not have him appear next in W3 7-12 while he's out west? 

On the current calendar, his appearance in X-STATIX 11 occurs on April 12. If we place W3 7 on the following day, then it would be "two months" ("a couple of months") after W3 6, now placed on Feb. 28. It would also be six WEEKS after W3 6 (we can do a "Cable" job on Nestor's "six MONTHS" comment). That would help reconcile the conflicting temporal references to the passage of time since W3 6 AND set up the upcoming story arc for a possible "spring" placement. (Although if there's a Nightcrawler appearance coming that shows him in his new fall costume, then scratch that spring reference.) It would also make the snow in Illinois a little easier to swallow -- it is conceivable that a freak snow would occur in mid-April. And it would explain the green vegetation elsewhere. 

If W3 7-11 occupy the amount of time you suggest, Jeph, then W3 11 ends on April 22. This would force me to shift WOLVERINE/CAPTAIN AMERICA down at least one day, maybe even two, which should be fine, as the full moon reference in that series could be retained. That series is based in New York, and then I have Logan's next appearance after that in UX 423 (April 27), also in New York. 

The progression of WOLVERINE/DOOP, X-STATIX 11, W3 7-11, WOLVERINE/CAP, then UX 423 seems to work from Logan's perspective. 


My second inclination is to take Nestor's "six months" reference as accurate, ignore the "two months" reference, figure "a couple of months" as an exaggerated underestimation, and ignore the snow altogether. This would place W3 7-11 in August of the summer of reconstruction at Xavier's. 

Another clue may be offered in upcoming issues of W3 -- say, if the story featuring Nightcrawler's new costume (which should be late summer/fall) contains a temporal reference to the passage of time since previous issues of W3. 

The placement of W3 12, of course, will depend on where W3 11 and 13 end up.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 07 Jul 2004 12:15 am    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Well then I've got some potential bad news, Paul. The lastest Marvel Previews Solicitation catalogue for the upcoming month of Sept. shows the cover to Wolverine #19, which is the end of the Rucka stories, and the end of the next storyarc. This cover shows Logan and Nightcrawler on the cover, and Nightcrawler is wearing his latest costume, the one seen currently in the pages of Uncanny Xmen. 

And I get the impression that Wolverin 12 and 13 follow relatively quickly on the heals of the end of Issue 11...of course the latest storyline is still a work in progress, so maybe we should wait and see....
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 12:40 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Paul -- 

If you're waiting for my feedback on your placement before posting the calendar, then I say go for it -- place these issues where you've suggested, and we'll hash things out when the time comes to nitpick your calendar. 

For right now, your suggested placement fits all of YOUR criteria -- it's the right number of months after where you've placed W3 #1-6, and it's in a month where there could conceivably be snow. *My* inclination is to place it closer to when it was actually published -- but like I said, we'll argue about it later. 

Do you still need Venom #6-10? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 07:04 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Jeph, 

I think I'll just leave W3 7-12 out of the calendar that will end June 30 of the current year. Given Kevin's warning, we may have to end up placing those issues closer to the present, as you're considering. Maybe it really is "six months" after W3 6, and thus August, which is the month I have the X-Men getting their new costumes. 

And yes, I do still need Venom #6-10. Thanks! 

Paul
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 10:50 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Yeah, a 'wait and see' attitude may be best...though maybe Nightcrawler only appears in costume on the cover, and inside, he doesn't appear in costume, and thus, we could sneak around sticky problems like that. 
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Thread 44

Posted: 17 Jul 2004 11:44 am    Post subject: Thanos #1-6
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Attempting to place this on the calendar is going to be a largely arbitrary exercise, I suspect. The whole series takes place away from Earth, and for that matter, away from the solar system. There are no references to anything going on elsewhere in the Marvel Universe (although the series does feature some fairly prominent Marvel guest stars). 



THANOS #1-6 
by Jim Starlin and Al Milgrom 
December 2003 to April 2004 (with issues #4-5 both dated March) 

THANOS #3, p5pn4 to p6pn1. While "categorizing energy vibrations", Galactus discovers an energy pattern identical to the energy he acquires from eating living planets. He is enthralled by the possibility of finding an alternate energy source so that he can stop eating worlds. (As we later learn, this is all a trick by Hunger.) The narration says that, after this flashback, Galactus studied "for months" to confirm his findings before heading for Rigel-18, as seen in issue #2. 

Characters: Galactus, Hunger (bts) 

THANOS #1. The ruins of the original Rigellian homeworld. Thanos sits and broods. Adam Warlock turns up, compelled by "an unexplainable and irresistible urge." Thanos narrates an extended flashback recounting his entire career, up to and including MARVEL UNIVERSE: THE END (with, as far as I can see, no additional information). Thanos faked his death at the end of that story, but Warlock has tracked him down using the Soul Gem. Thanos says that as his godlike powers faded, he "restored [his] shattered armada and granted myself a number of other life-assuring wishes." Then he came to Rigellian homeworld to contemplate his life. He has decided that in order to achieve inner tranquility, he must make amends for his past misdeeds, one of which was the destruction of the original Rigellain homeworld. 

Thanos and Warlock head to New Rigel-3 (the replacement homeworld). Not surprisingly, the Rigellians attack Thanos on sight - although with no effect whatsoever. To Warlock's amazement, Thanos tells the Rigellians that he is putting himself at their service. 

In scattered panels throughout the story, Hunger (a cosmic entity which devours dimensions and, at present, is outside the MU altogether) stirs and wakes. 

Characters: Thanos, Adam Warlock, Hunger, Rigellians 

THANOS #2. The Rigellians put Thanos in jail (and he remains there voluntarily). The Rigellian Grand Commissioner meets with Adam Warlock to discuss what to do with Thanos. Warlock advises that he believes Thanos is sincere, but cannot be trusted because of his erratic mood swings. He is sticking around for the moment to keep an eye on Thanos. Zygo, a Rigellian general, believes that the very idea of taking up Thanos' offer is insane, and tries to stage a military coup. Thanos and Warlock defeat Zygo and his men without much effort. The Grand Commissioner takes Thanos up on his offer, and asks him to deal with a crisis on Rigel-18. Thanos, Warlock, a Recorder and the Commissioner teleport there. It transpires that Galactus showed up "three days ago", but for some reason has not eaten the planet yet. Everyone acknowledges that his behavious is very strange. Thanos agrees to stop Galactus. 

Again, Hunger watches the whole issue from another reality. 

Characters: Thanos, Adam Warlock, the Rigellian Grand Commissioner, a Recorder, General Zygo, Galactus, Hunger, Rigellians 

THANOS #3. Presumably not long has passed since the previous issue. Thanos has now been joined aboard his ship by Moondragon. He uses her telepathy to make contact with Galactus. Although distrustful, Galactus agrees to meet with Thanos on the astral plane. There, Thanos questions Galactus about his actions, but gets nowhere. Then he tries a mental attack, but is easily rebuffed. The delay at least enables the Rigellians to finish evacuating the planet. Thanos decides that Moondragon is of no further use to him, and teleports her back to Earth. Pip the Troll arrives on the ship, having planted various bugs on Galactus' ship while Galactus was distracted on the astral plane. Galactus then activates his equipment and destroys Rigel-18's sun. He teleports into the supernova and heads for an interdimensional portal which has appeared inside. He reaches in and pulls out what appears to be a human skeleton with another soul gem on its chest. This, apparently, was the bait Hunger left for him. Galactus then returns to his ship. 

Thanos is disappointed that he has failed to save Rigel-18. However, he is determined to investigate the situation further. 

Hunger continues to watch and, inexplicably, becomes aware of the reader. 

Characters: Thanos, Adam Warlock, Galactus, Hunger, Moondragon, Recorder, Rigellian Grand Commissioner, Pip 

THANOS #4. Hunger addresses the reader directly and explains the plot. (Basically, he's come to the Marvel Universe to eat it. He needed somebody to open a portal from within the MU in order for him to get in. He tricked Galactus into doing so.) 

Thanos' ship. While Warlock and Pip discuss Warlock's recent activities, Thanos hacks into Galactus' computer and works out that somebody is manipulating Galactus. Galactus' Punisher cyborgs attack the ship, and steal Warlock's soul gem. They teleport away with it, leaving the ship primed to explode. Pip, Thanos and Warlock all escape and (one hour later) meet up at a rendezvous point on a barren world. (The Recorder is destroyed in the explosion.) Warlock is "completely out of it" after having his Gem ripped off. Meanwhile, Galactus happily completes his Gem collection and connects them to a machine called the Focusing Crux. Thanks to Hunger's manipulations, Galactus believes that he can use the Crux to feed off the Soul Gems. (Hunger has clouded Galactus' mind to stop him from realising that he could just will away his hunger using the gems.) 

Characters: Thanos, Hunger, Pip, Adam Warlock, Recorder, Galactus 

THANOS #5. Thanos and Pip teleport aboard Galactus' ship. Galactus switches on the Crux. Thanos tries to warn Galactus that he has been tricked, but of course, Galactus doesn't believe him - after all, it's Thanos. Of course, the Crux opens a portal and Hunger begins to emerge. Hunger immediately seizes control of the ship. Galactus realises that Thanos was telling the truth after all, and they join forces to fight Hunger. Hunger simply absorbs Galactus' energy attacks. Using explosives planted by Pip, Thanos blows up Galactus' ship, hoping to stop the Crux. It doesn't work. Hunger continues to enter the Marvel Universe, planning to eat it. 

Characters: Thanos, Pip, Galactus, Hunger 

THANOS #6. Everyone lands on the surface of Rigel-18 after the destruction of Galactus' ship. Thanos retrieves Warlock's Soul Gem from the Crux. Then he uses the Rigellians' planetary defence system to pull the ruined Rigellian homeworld towards it. He plans to collide the planets (setting off a nuclear arsenal in the process) and destroy Hunger. Thanos and Pip teleport away, leaving Galactus behind. Galactus and Hunger are both caught in the explosion. The portal is closed. Thanos and Pip retreat to another of Thanos' ships. Thanos asserts that the other Infinity Gems will be flung "to far distant corners of the heavens." Having no further use for Pip, Thanos gives him the Soul Gem (to pass on to Warlock) and then leaves. 

Thanos heads back to the wreckage of Rigel-18 and finds Galactus barely alive. Galactus reluctantly agrees that the plan was worth the risk of killing him. Thanos encourages Galactus to continue seeking a cure for his hunger, and says that Galactus does not do so, Thanos and other cosmic figures will join forces to stop him. Thanos returns to his ship, leaving Galactus to recover and reflect on events. Nobody notices a splinter of Hunger on Galactus' glove, which flies off into space. (Most of Hunger never made it through the portal; this part was cut off.) 

Some time later, Adam Warlock visits Thanos in his ship. Thanos proudly announces that the Rigellians have declared his debt discharged, and urged him to leave. Warlock politely reminds Thanos that he destroyed another Rigellian planet. Nonetheless, he is happy to leave Thanos to his own devices, and decides to return to Gamora. Thanos announces his intention to travel to Titan (although in the next issue, he does no such thing - no doubt because of the change of writers). Irritated by Pip, Thanos has him thrown off the ship, figuring that Pip will make his own way home. 

Characters: Thanos, Pip, Galactus, Hunger
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 20 Jul 2004 10:11 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Thanks for the lowdown on THANOS 1-12, Paul.  

Aside from this series having to occur sometime after END 6, we have one other clue for placement: Moondragon must appear in THANOS 3 before CM6 19, the beginning of the storyline in which she becomes Magus' slave (her current status). 

I added all twelve issues and the two flashbacks to the master copy of the calendar. Without any clues for placement on an earth calendar, I ended up putting these issues on relatively quiet days in March and April of Year 22, with the flashback in issue #3 "months" earlier.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 45

Posted: 17 Jul 2004 06:54 pm    Post subject: Thanos #7-12
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Again, we're way off on the other side of the universe here, with no references to events in other titles. Quite a few Marvel characters turn up, however. Bafflingly, issues #7-12 are billed as "Samaritan", a six-part story. The reality is that issues #7-10 are a four-parter, and issues #11-12 are a two-part story. What's more, the cancellation is obviously last minute, as even issue #12 is still merrily setting up subplots for the future. Plus, it's a Keith Giffen comic, and the dialogue is often extremely garbled. 

However, the core plot isn't too complex (once you work out what it is...) 

THANOS #7-12 
by Keith Giffen, Ron Lim and Al Milgrom 
May to September 2004 

THANOS #10, pages 8-9, flashback The Shi'ar lose contact with a colony, population 64,000. Gladiator, Oracle, Electron and Quasar go to investigate. They find the planet entirely eradicated, and one comatose woman as the sole survivor. They quickly work out that she is responsible for the slaughter. She is arrested and imprisoned in suspended animation in the Kyln, a maximum security prison at the edge of the universe. Soon after, however, Oracle begins to go insane as a result of making telepathic contact with the woman. Oracle and Gladiator realise that the woman is the Beyonder, having inexplicably taken mortal form. Had they realised this, they would simply have killed her. Gladiator goes to the Kyln himself as a prisoner (claiming to have been convicted of treason), hoping to kill the Beyonder. 

Characters: Beyonder, Gladiator, Oracle, Electron, Quasar 

THANOS #7. Thanos arrives at the town of Frontline, on the planet Eden, near the edge of the expanding universe. He plans to visit the Kyln prison, which has become a regular site for pilgrims thanks to its excellent view of the Crunch, an energy phenomenon associated with the expansion of the universe. Some religions ascribe significance to it. Thanos meets the three local cops - Cole, Kika and Swad, agents of an organisation called the Omega Core. Cole is a human who claims to have been abducted by aliens as a child. Despite his colleagues' misgivings, Cole takes Thanos to a secure teleporter which transports him to the Kyln. There, Thanos meets a Cleric who takes him on a brief tour. Thanos meditates over the Kyln (for around a day). Kyln technology allows pilgrims to commune with a holographic representation of their deity. In Thanos' case, Death appears, and he discusses the direction of his life with the hologram. 

Characters: Thanos, Swad, Cole, Kika, Cleric 

THANOS #8. On Frontline, Cole, Kika and Swad continue to argue about Thanos. As a religious believer, Swad is particularly offended that Thanos was allowed to visit the Kyln. (This subplot continues for the rest of the series but heads nowhere.) 

On the Kyln, while Thanos was meditating, there has been a major breakout. The Beyonder has woken from her coma and has shut down the nanotech which kept the inmates under control. Thanos meets prisoner Moloka Dar, who explains the plot to him, and then brings him to meet Gladiator and Starlord, both of whom are also inmates. (We're never told quite why Starlord is there, but in issue #12, he claims that he killed 350,000 people in "collateral damage." Gladiator regards Starlord's actions as justifiable.) Gladiator and Starlord try to enlist Thanos' help in controlling the Beyonder. Meanwhile, the Cleric is interrogated by another prisoner, Mynx, who takes an interest in Thanos. (Mynx's plot also heads nowhere.) Thanos gets the Cleric to take him to the Beyonder. 

Characters: Thanos, Beyonder (bts), Starlord, Gladiator, Cole, Kika, Swad, Cleric, Mynx, Moloka Dar 

THANOS #9. Other Omega Core officers arrive to help deal with the chaos on the Kyln. Cole blames Swad for letting Thanos aboard. 

Thanos and the Cleric are attacked by a gang led by Mynx. Meanwhile, the Beyonder emerges from the cocoon in which she was held. There are two other cocoons in the cell. She opens one, and releases Skreet (a character somewhat like the Wasp). She ignores the other cocoon (which, as we'll find out, contains the Fallen). The Beyonder heads outside and interrupts Thanos and Mynx. Unable to remember her past, she asks Thanos about herself. She finds the answers annoying, and throws a tantrum. She causes a huge explosion that knocks out Thanos, and then shrinks Mynx and her gang to tiny size. 

Characters: Thanos, Gladiator, Starlord, Beyonder, Fallen (bts), Cole, Swad, Kika, Mynx, Moloka Dar, Cleric, Skreet 

THANOS #10. Skreet captures Mynx (who is small enough to be held in Skreet's hand), and then wakes Thanos. With Skreet and Mynx in tow, Thanos confronts the Beyonder again. He defeats the Beyonder by causing brain damage to its mortal body. Afterwards, he tells Gladiator to keep the Beyonder alive - so long as the body remains alive, the Beyonder will be trapped and harmless, but if the body dies, the Beyonder will resume its normal cosmic state. 

Characters: Thanos, Gladiator, Starlord, Beyonder, Cole, Mynx, Skreet, Kika, Swad 

THANOS #11. Thanos, Skreet and Mynx return to the cocoon chamber. They find that the third inmate has also escaped. Thanos learns that this cocoon contained the Fallen - the first herald of Galactus, cast out for unspecified offences. The Fallen wants revenge on Galactus for abandoning him. 

Mynx is returned to the authorities, and Starlord arranges for her to be restored to her proper size. She tells him that she owes him a favour. 

Gladiator conscripts Starlord into the Imperial Guard, on the basis that he had dealt with the Fallen the last time round. 

On his ship (and still accompanied by Skreet), Thanos researches the Fallen. He works out that the Fallen will head straight for Galactus. Normally that would not be a problem, because Galactus vastly outpowers him. But Galactus is still recovering from the encounter with Hunger - there is a real possibility that the Fallen might succeed in killing him, which would be a cosmic disaster. Thanos contacts Galactus by astral projection to warn him. Meanwhile, the Fallen heads for Galactus' ship. 

Characters: Thanos, Gladiator, Starlord, Skreet, the Fallen, Galactus, Mynx, Cole 

THANOS #12. Thanos is too far away from Galactus to reach him in time, but interferes telepathically as the Fallen attacks Galactus. The following scene is, frankly, almost incomprehensible - it appears that Thanos somehow teleports Galactus away so that the Fallen can't get at him, but quite how he does this is unclear. The Fallen turns his attention to Thanos. Shortly the Fallen arrives at Thanos' ship, and attacks. They fight, and Thanos tricks the Fallen into blowing up a star, knocking him out. With the Fallen unconscious, Thanos telepathically alters his mind and declares the Fallen to be his herald. And... there the series ends. 

Characters: Thanos, Gladiator, Starlord, Earthquake, Astra, Fallen, Galactus, Skreet, Cole, Swad
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 26 Jul 2004 05:55 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Starlord?? Doesn't he live in a future timeline? 

-Sean

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Posted: 26 Jul 2004 07:27 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Starlord is a continuity mess. INHUMANS vol 4 #4 purports to feature a precognitive flash-forward to his conception. However, the original series - and specifically MARVEL PREVIEW #4 - was quite clear that the character was born in 1962, and become Starlord in 1990.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 26 Jul 2004 08:25 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Those topical references to specific years don't necessarily make Starlord's continuity a mess, but what I think you meant to say was that Starlord was born before M/PREV 4, which occurs before INH4 4, which occurs before Starlord's conception. Could he have been conceived in the future, then his mother gone back in time to give birth to him?
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 46

Posted: 29 Jun 2004 09:42 pm    Post subject: Captain Marvel
By Dhall

Here's a question. The Key lists Captain Marvel, volumes 1,2,4,5 
But not vol. 3. Any reason why? Is vol.3 not canon or just not listed? 

I know very little about these characters, but this is what I've found listed for volume #'s elsewhere. 

Captain Marvel (1968-79 1st Marvel) 68 issues 
Marvel Captain Marvel (1989 One Shot 2nd Marvel) 2 issues 
Marvel Captain Marvel (1995-96 3rd Marvel) 7 issues 
Marvel Captain Marvel (1999-2002 4th Series Marvel) 36 issues 
Marvel Captain Marvel (2002- 5th Series) 27 issues 


Dave H

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Posted: 29 Jun 2004 11:21 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

As far as I know, vol. 3 lasted 6 issues and vol. 5 lasted 25. 

"Vol. 2" may have been the single one-shot starring Monica Rambeau ... I'm curious why you have TWO issues listed for it, though. Were there two one-shots? If so, why aren't they separate volume numbers? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Well then Vol. 3 should be listed in the key. 

I listed vol.2 that way because that's how it's listed here: 

http://www.mycomicshop.com/megastore/search.cfm?pbl=Marvel%7EALL&pcat=Comics%2DAll&til=1784 

These may very well be 2 different covers for the same issue (as far as I know, not having it myself.) 

Dave H

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Posted: 30 Jun 2004 04:11 pm
By SeanCurtin

Captain Marvel vol. 2 = Captain Marvel Special 
Captain Marvel vol. 3 = Captain Marvel: Speaking Without Concern 

Captain Marvel II has the latter titles listed in her chronology. IMHO they should be listed as the former, as that's what they're labelled as on the cover. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Jun 2004 05:00 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Well, that'd bump the 6-issue Nicieza series up to v4, and the next two to v5 and v6, then... 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Jul 2004 01:43 am    
By SeanCurtin

That's how they're already listed... nothing would change. 

-Sean

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Posted: 01 Jul 2004 06:44 pm    
By Dhall

Right, currently the only problem is that NOTHING is listed as Captain Marvel Volume 3, and something should be since we have a vol.4 and 5.

			*	*	*

Thread 47

Posted: 04 Jul 2004 10:16 pm    Post subject: Taskmaster entry has bad/old link....
By DragynWulf

The Taskmaster entry has a link to an old site (Geocities) that redirects to the actual site. Since the old site has not been undated in over 3 years, Geocities deleted it and with it, the redirect to the actual site. 

TaskmasterSite.Com is the correct link.
_________________
-DragynWulf 
Owner/Webmaster of TaskmasterSite.com 
Moderator of the Taskmaster MBoard

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Thread 48

Posted: 30 Jul 2004 04:00 pm    Post subject: Bracket missing - Dazzler II first app.
By Dhall

It's a little thing, but Dazzler's first app. only has one bracket, not a pair. 

DAZZLER II/ALLISON BLAIRE 
DAZZ 1-FB 
UX 129-BTS 
UX 130}

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Thread 49

Posted: 10 Jul 2004 10:53 pm    Post subject: Marvel Super Heroes Gamebook help requested
By Oedivanth

Hi folks - 

I bought a copy of Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Gamebook #6 on eBay but it doesn't have the character card in it. This is "An X-Cellent Death" by Kate Novak and features Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Storm and Rogue. While the text inside gives some of the ratings, it doesn't give enough to play the game. 

If anyone out there has it and can scan the card or just give me the ratings, I'd appreciate it. 

Thanks!

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Thread 50

Posted: 11 Jul 2004 04:02 pm    Post subject: Updates?
By Dhall

Here's a question for both Russ and Jeph: 

When can we expect to see updates for the 1993-94 period, 

and the Captain Britain Hulk Comic stories? 

(If you guys are as busy as I have been lately, it could be a while.) 

Thanks! 

Dave H

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Posted: 11 Jul 2004 05:30 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

The directors have been tinkering with Paul Bourcier's calendar. It should be available shortly. 


watching: bad boys

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Thread 51

Posted: 12 Jul 2004 05:14 pm    Post subject: What is Killraven?
By Marvel Jedi

What or who is it cannon?
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 12 Jul 2004 05:38 pm    
By StAkAr Karnak

Killraven is the main character in a post-apocalyptic story set in a timeline where the Martians from H.G. Wells' "War of the Worlds" returned and won. 

He was raised in captivity as a gladiator. Upon gaining freedom, he became the leader of a band of rebels called the Freemen. The story follows their exploits, as well as KR's attempts to find his brother and to free Humanity from their captors. 

He has appeared in Amazing Adventures v2 #18-39, Marvel Graphic Novel #7, Marvel Team-Up #45, and Killraven v1 #1. Counterparts from other timelines have appeared in Avengers Forever and Paradise X. Alan Davis did a 6-issue miniseries that was a remix on the Killraven concept. 

As for canonicity, Spider-Man met KR in MTU 45 and the Guardians of the Galaxy had a Killraven in their timeline. Whether this is the same individual as the one in AA2 is a matter of controversy. Avengers Forever showed the potential for another Killraven in the future of the Mainstream Marvel Universe. 

- SK

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Posted: 12 Jul 2004 08:36 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Killraven is not a cannon. 

-Jeph! 
your deadpan spelling lesson for the day

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Posted: 13 Jul 2004 06:59 am  
By Nathan P. Mahney

Is it possible that the Killraven from Avengers Forever is the same guy in the GotG timeline? 

- Nathan P. Mahney -
_________________
- Nathan P. Mahney -

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Thread 52

Posted: 14 Jul 2004 02:17 pm    Post subject: Favorite Retelling Back-Ups with new info
By Enda80

I always found it fun when they used to do a back-up or reprint to retell the history of a character or item (e.g. Darkhold or Serpent Crown) and took the time to not just retell the old story, but show new scenes or new info, especially for things mentioned but never actually shown before. 

So, here is my list; 

-Incomplete Death's Head: features framing sequences around the reprints 

-Original Ghost Rider: features Phantom Rider in a new story in back-ups 

-Saga of the High Evolutionary 

-Saga of the Serpent Crown 

-Book of the Vishanti 

-History of Subterranea (in Avengers Annual#20) 

-Memoirs of Kang (Citizen Kang back-ups) 

-"Conan Comics Chronology" articles in Conan Saga; actually mostly text, but #95 does reveal new info about storylines intended for Savage Sword that never an 

-"Red Sonja Comics Chronology" article in Conan Saga#96; reveals intended Black Khengor story 

-Saga of the Sub-Mariner 

-Saga of the Original Human Torch 

-Classic X-Men/X-Men Classic 

-Marvel Tales 

-Tales to Astonish II 

-Tomb of Dracula II#3 (text article) 

By the way, did Spider-Man Saga and Wolverine Saga feature any new info? 

Othe favorite continuity janitor work series 

Untold Tales of the Marvel Universe in What If? 
Tales of the Inhumans in Thor and Thor@ 12 
Tales of Asgard and Thor Annual#5 
Tales of Atlantis in Sub-Mariner

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Posted: 14 Jul 2004 02:59 pm    
By lkseitz

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
I always found it fun when they used to do a back-up or reprint to retell the history of a character or item . . . 
<<<


I don't know why, but for some reason I feel backups often add a lot to a series. Two of my favorite series are Atari Force (http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/comics/AtariForce/) and Rom (http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/comics/Rom/) and both feature back-ups. The backups in Rom were "Saga of the Spaceknights," which basically meant the history of Rom before he came to Earth. (And Rom Annual #2 was an entire tale from the past. No framing sequence or anything.) It's a shame they don't do backups much any more. I guess some people feel cheated by them, but not I.
_________________
Lee K. Seitz 
Slowly adding insignificant characters to the MCP

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Thread 53

Posted: 16 Jul 2004 02:59 pm    Post subject: Werewolf By Night Question
By BruceReville

Hey Guys n Gals! 

1st time to this site and I must say WOW! I'm impressed. A sight like this will help me finish up any of those holes I am missing in my collection. Now for my question. 

Ok I noticed that while looking for back issues of Werewolf By Night I came across the Monsters Unleashed titles and saw in Issues 1 & 4 - there are werewolf tales. Are these related to Werewolf By Night? And also Issues 6 & 7 in small print on the cover actually mention Werewolf By Night, but they are not on your list of appearances. Are they Jack Russell Appearances? 

If so - it just means more $$$$ outta my wallet.  

Thanx!
_________________
WHOO-HOO!

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Posted: 16 Jul 2004 06:03 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

BruceReville wrote: 
>>>
1st time to this site and I must say WOW! I'm impressed. A sight like this will help me finish up any of those holes I am missing in my collection. 
<<<


Thanks. That's one of our purposes. 

BruceReville wrote: 
>>>
Ok I noticed that while looking for back issues of Werewolf By Night I came across the Monsters Unleashed titles and saw in Issues 1 & 4 - there are werewolf tales. Are these related to Werewolf By Night? 
<<<


Nope. 


watching: seinfeld

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Thread 54

Posted: 17 Jul 2004 04:49 pm    Post subject: What is The Foreigner's nationality?
By John Omohundro

Just curious: 

Has the issue of The Foreigner's nationality ever been settled? 

I know that his real name is supposedly "Rafael Basil Sabitini", and that, in his normal speaking voice, he uses a British accent. However, I also know that he murdered Lieutenant Christopher (a/k/a "Chris" or "Kit") Keating of the New York City Police Department S.W.A.T. team and Special Powers Task Force, then assumed his identity as a cover, successfully impersonating him on and off for several years. I'm assuming that Keating was an American citizen, and was at least a resident of New York City (if he wasn't born there), which would indicate that The Foreigner, in addition to being a master of disguise, is an excellent mimic, at least when it comes to impersonating other people's voices and/or regional accents. 

At least one unofficial site, The Unofficial Handbook of the Marvel Universe (http://www.comicboards.com/marvelguide/), claims that Sabitini, if that is his real name, was born in an "[u]nrevealed location in England". 

Would anyone here have anything to add on this subject? 

Thanks in advance, 

John Omohundro

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Posted: 18 Jul 2004 12:00 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I would assume he's a foreigner. 

-Jeph!

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Thread 55

Posted: 26 Jul 2004 11:17 am    Post subject: Age of the Apocolypse
By Marvel Jedi

Is it canon? 
What is it? 
When dose it take place?
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 26 Jul 2004 02:11 pm    
By John Simons

Actually it's spelled "Apocalypse". I point that out not to be picky about spelling, but if you do a google search on "Age of Apocalypse" you will get lots and lots of hopefully helpful hits.

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Posted: 26 Jul 2004 05:08 pm    
By Marvel Jedi

well is it canon? 
whats it about? 
when does it take place?
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 26 Jul 2004 05:41 pm    
By SeanCurtin

It takes place in an alternate universe, so it's canonical but only applicable to characters who came from or went to that universe. The crossover occurred between X-Men volume 2 #40 and X-Men: Prime. 

-Sean

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Posted: 26 Jul 2004 07:04 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Marvel Jedi wrote: 
>>>
well is it canon? 
whats it about? 
when does it take place? 
<<<


Thanks for your questions, but this is *not* the place to ask "whats it about?" 

Follow John's tip above, and you'll find all the information you could hope for on what it's about. We don't delve into plot synopses here, unless it's to aid in the chronological analysis of a book. 


watching: dnc convention

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Thread 56

Posted: 28 Jul 2004 05:31 pm    Post subject: Wolverine: SNIKT
By Marvel Jedi

is this canon?
_________________
-snoogans!

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Posted: 28 Jul 2004 05:33 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Do you have a reason to think it might not be? 


watching: winds of war

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Posted: 28 Jul 2004 10:05 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

You'll find it in the calendar (May 6 on page 4), as I have no reason to believe it's not canonical.
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 57

Posted: 29 Jul 2004 05:09 am    Post subject: Wizard 1/2 comics
By PeteD

I own the X-Men 1/2 comic, and I have compiled the following list from Wizard's mail order page. 

Are there any other comics published by Wizard that any of you know about, and more significantly, are they part of canon? 

Spider-Man 
Daredevil 
Ultimate Spider-Man 
Ultimate X-Men 
X-Men 
Weapon X 
Silver Surfer/Witchblade: Devil's Reign 
Spider-Man Unlimited 
Earth X 
Blade 
Iron Man 
Powers 
Wizard 50 Sensational Spider-Man

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Posted: 29 Jul 2004 08:38 am    
By Ant-Man

Wizard produced a Generation X 1/2, and I don't recall anything in that book that would make it non-canonical

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Jul 2004 09:11 am    
By PeteD

Thanks, I'll add that to the list. 

Another question, are these titles original work or reprints??
