	Marvel Universe Forum
1. Strange / Warlock
2. Ms. Marvel / Binary / Warbird
3. Wiped Out Continuies; IG
4. Foreigner
5. Knights of Pendragon
6. Question about upcoming calendar
7. Nightmare Chronology Addition
8. Hulk v1 Annual 6
9. x-titles continuity from 1998 and up
10. Cyclops - two back story questions
11. Havok & Wolverine: Meltdown
12. Yon-Rogg
13. REQUEST: Alpha Watch
14. Rusty Collins -- Firefist?
15. D'Spayre Addition; DRSTR3 33/2 revealed
16. Cap and Concen Camps; he wasn't around........
17. Magus I
18. She-Hulk
19. Doctor Strange Question; that is his real name
20. Tigra: Marvel Preview #21
21. KA-ZAR & ZABU
22. Fury 1
23. Colossus/ Piotr Rasputin, character numbering
24. REQUEST: X-Watch
25. Infinity Crusade chronology
26. Sgt. Fury & his Howlin' Commandos #100
27. Finite series, incompletely analyzed
28. Protocol for newspaper interviews
29. Punisher Chronology Revisions; Anniversay Maga
30. Circus of Crime (some new entries)
31. Morgan Le Fey in Thor Annual#17
32. The End
33. Infinity War chronology
34. Days of Future Past additions
35. Brian Xavier, Sharon Xavier, Kurt Marko
36. Eel / Leopold Stryke (new entry)
37. Eternals History in What If? Volume 1
38. UX 25 - Ted Roberts
39. Radion
40. Punisher Year one.
41. Mordred note; fb elaborated
42. Current Titles
43. John Sublime
44. Coming from Marvel in December
45. Characters in Weapon X v2 #28
46. Enchantress and Valkyrie Question
47. Silver Surfer v1 #1-18
48. Howard the Duck characters
49. Shen, Lian Dr.
50. Odin in TOS#39/3; Death entry have ?
51. XCAL3 5-FB
52. Citing Marvel Knights 4
53. Heroes Reborn questions
54. Imperial Guard
55. Some Wolverine apps.
56. Error in Skids listing
57. Tony Stark's recent chronology
58. Man-Thing
59. New Universe and Ultraverse
60. Villain Roundup
61. Eric the Red
62. Missing appearances from GSX 1, UX 94-107
63. Monsters Unleashed 5

	Ultimate Universe Forum
64. Ultimate Chronology

	MC-2 Forum
65. Canon flashbacks in MC2 books?

	Issue Analysis Forum
66. Any differences between UX #122-138 and Classic #28-44?
67. Chronology Review for Pulse #4 and #5
68. Any canon FBs in Wolverine: the End #1-2?
69. Question
70. Thunderbolts #58-64
71. SGT. FURY & HIS HOWLING COMMANDOS #100
72. New Warriors vol. 1 #11-13: Forever Yesterday
73. Thunderbolts #65-75
74. Target Presents Reading to the Rescue!
75. Thunderbolts #76-81
76. Domino2 1-4
77. Wolverine: Xisle and Wolverine: Snikt!
78. Chronology Review for Wolverine #12
79. X-Force v1 #121-129
80. Cyclops 4
81. Iceman 2 1-4
82. X-Statix 13-18
83. X-Statix #1-5
84. XX: SL 1-4
85. XX 7-9
86. AVENGERS: STRIKE FILE #1
87. X-Men 122-126 (and additions to X 117)
88. Spider-Man's Tangled Web #14
89. Spider-Man's Tangled Web #13
90. Squadron Supreme: Death of a Universe GN
91. I was given improper credit in the update!
92. Nighctrawler2 1-4
93. W2 169
94. XX '01, XX 10-18
95. UX 408-409
96. Avengers: Deathtrap:The Vault
97. UX 400-407 (including Ann '01)
98. X 127
99. The Brotherhood 4-9
100. Exiles Infinity,1-11, Ultraforce 12, Ultraverse Unlim 2
101. Night Man VS. Wolverine 0, Night Man/Gambit 1-3
102. Phoenix Resurrection
103. Ultraforce: Countdown to Black September
104. Call for Analysis
105. The Incredible Hulk vs. Venom
106. Ultraforce Infinity, #1-3 & Foxfire #1-2

	Bug Reports Forum
107. Erishkigel II
108. Scott Washington, Hybrid, and Guardsman #6
109. Risque's real name
110. NEKRA Correction
111. Firestar First Appearance
112. Doctor Doom corrections
113. "Journey Into Mystery Annual 1" or "Thor Annu
114. Sunpyre, not Sunspyre
115. AOA Apocalypse

	Chat Forum
116. Newby looking for help Identifying an Issue
117. 1993 Updates?
118. Keep an eye out for... (some spoilers below)
119. Question about Dr. Strange comics
120. Administrator annoucement
121. ASM # 1-500 on CD-Rom
122. Boston Comic Spectaculah - Saturday Sept. 25th!
123. Uncanny X-Men #449 (spoilers)




Thread 1

Posted: 31 Aug 2004 02:30 pm    Post subject: Strange / Warlock
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Milehighcomics.com have got previews of both STRANGE #1 and WARLOCK #1 in their entirety - http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/marvel 

WARLOCK #1 need not concern us. It's clearly a non-canon book, beginning with a different version of the Enclave creating Warlock afresh. It appears to be set in an alternate near-future timeline of impending ecological disaster. 

STRANGE #1 is an overhaul and revamp of Dr Strange's origin story, including several obvious outright revisions (most obviously, a new explanation of how he meets Wong, and the deletion of the car crash, to be replaced by a ski-ing accident). ASM 500 set up the idea that by meddling with time, Dr Strange had left himself open to an attack on his history by Baron Mordo, thus providing an in-continuity justification for an outright retcon. But let's be clear that this is NOT a time-travel story, nor does it involve Mordo or the present-day Strange. It's simply... the post-Mordo Attack version of Dr Strange's origin. 

Barring some unexpected developments in later issues, this may have to be accepted as a rare example of an outright overhaul of continuity which deletes several previous appearances altogether. It does, after all, have its roots in an in-story explanation. My inclination would be to reserve judgment until a present-day story expressly adopts the new version of Strange's origin, since we all know that if the book doesn't catch on, we'll never hear of it again. Mind you, Strange's origin is referenced so infrequently that even if it sticks, it could be a long while before the point it put beyond doubt.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 31 Aug 2004 09:06 pm    Post subject: Retroactive continuities
By StAkAr Karnak

Doesn't such a revision of historical events create a divergent timeline? Maybe the original listing could be preserved and a separate one created for a new backstory. 

For example: 

JOE SHMOE I [original timeline] 
BOOK 1 
BOOK 2 
BOOK 3 
... 
BOOK 53 
BOOK 54 
BOOK 55 

JOE SHMOE II [retconned version] 
BOOK 56 (new origin) 
BOOK 53 
BOOK 54 
BOOK 55 

Technically, any alteration to the past would produce a ripple throughout the person's life, but I digress. 

- SK
_________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:StAkAr_Karnak

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Posted: 31 Aug 2004 10:48 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

If it truly created a divergent timeline, you would be suggesting not just double listings for Dr. Strange, covering almost all of his appearances since circa 1963, but double listings for every character in the Marvel Universe over those forty years. 

If that's what you meant by "a ripple through his life," that's not a technicality. 


watching: republican convention

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 03:50 am 
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

StAkAr Karnak wrote: 
>>>
Doesn't such a revision of historical events create a divergent timeline? 
<<<


Not in the conventional sense. The mainstream timeline is simply overhauled and changed. The previous version of continuity becomes nothing more than "the way continuity used to be" - a Hypertimeline. (The concept has been expressly adopted in the DCU, but it makes equal sense for Marvel - Hypertime would be a second direction of time at right angles to the conventional concepts, which is basically what we're talking about here.)
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Thread 2

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 11:29 am    Post subject: Ms. Marvel / Binary / Warbird
By Ant-Man

I noticed that Carol Danvers' Warbird appearances are listed under WARBIRD, but all of her Ms. Marvel appearances are lumped under BINARY. 

Sure, there's a link from Ms. Marvel to Binary, but why combine 2 very distinct aliases but separate another?
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Thread 3

Posted: 10 Jul 2004 08:15 pm    Post subject: Wiped Out Continuies; IG
By Enda80

A while ago, a discussion of stories such as the Infinity Gauntlet where events of a story were later wiped out came up. 

An interesting story in Sleepwalker dealt with the effects of Nebula's rewriting history. 

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/chngg1.htm 
Things went back to the way they were when Thanos lost the Infinity Gauntlet. According to the Sleepwalker stories, everyone lost their memory of what happened during that time, since it was retroactively changed. I'm not sure that's how it went down in the other books, but anyway...Because of this, Sleepwalker had no memory of having encountered the Chain Gang in the past. The Chain Gang, because they had been trapped in the Mindscape when things reversed themselves, remembered the events fully. (Presumably, this is why they retained their powers as well, as Thanos' destruction helped create them, yet all of his destruction was undone at the end of the Infinity Gauntlet saga. Since all of Thanos' destruction was undone, the Chain Gang wouldn't have been freed by it in the first place--Kyle.) 

Also, unless I miss my mark, I recall that during the Infinity War (or thereabouts), when Quasar meets Thanos again, a little footnote was put in to the effec that Quasar had meet Thanos in during the Infinity Gauntlet storyline, but that due to Nebula's time trick, he no longer remembered those events. 


By the way, it is interesting to note that the Infinity Gauntlet only crossed over into six titles (see below)! Is that why the Infinity Gauntlet did not produce the gaps that the Infinity War and Crusade seemed to cause? 


Cloak and Dagger #18 
Doctor Strange #31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36 
Incredible Hulk #383, 384, 385 
Quasar #26, 27 
Silver Surfer #51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59 
Sleepwalker #6, 7

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Posted: 11 Jul 2004 12:00 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you suggesting a change of some kind to the MCP? 

Why is it "interesting" to note that IG only crossed over into six titles? 

And what do you mean when you say IG didn't "create gaps" like IW and IC did? What gaps? Do you mean the Gaps in the MCP? Those gaps have nothing to do with the Infinity series or the amount of books they crossed over into. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 11 Jul 2004 02:16 pm    Post subject: On the old boards, Don Campbell noted how.....
By Enda80

Don Campbell noted how the Hulk#383-384 storyline seemed to have been wiped out due to Nebula's rewriting of time in IG#6, and he wondered if a special notation to that effect should be put in somehow. 
I thought I would bring these up as examples of similarly affected tales. 

I thought it was interesting that the IG only crossed over into six titles since its sequels had many more tie-in issues.

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Posted: 31 Aug 2004 05:30 pm    Post subject: Another erased story
By Enda80

Quasar's first meeting with Thanos was actually erased due to Nebula's tinkering as well. In Quasar#30, Quasar sees the Thanos of an alternate Earth with the Infinity Gauntlet fighting Maelstrom (Maelstrom with the power from "Cosmos In Collision), stops and wonders how Thanos got such power. A footnote stated that Quasar had met Thanos before, but that those meetings had been erased by Nebula's tinkering.

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Posted: 31 Aug 2004 05:36 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

...and? 

All you're really saying here is "look, more evidence that the events of 'Infinity Gauntlet' were wiped out" -- but since IG explictly tells us that the events were wiped out -- there's nothing to note. You're pointing out how one comic is consistent with another. 

Want me to post some evidence that Cyclops has optic blasts? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 31 Aug 2004 09:11 pm    
By Enda80

Don Campbell suggested that we come up a special notation for wiped out stories such as this, so I was naming a few examples.

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Posted: 31 Aug 2004 11:20 pm    Post subject: Wiped-Out Stories
By DonCampbell

To be more precise, I suggested that it might be helpful to indicate which stories in a character's chronology should be ignored (or dealt with very carefully) because they were wiped out of continuity by another story. I suppose that I was thinking more of any writers who might be using the MCP as a resource to help them with the continuity of their stories. If a writer just read the MCP's listing for a character and read some (but not all) of the stories, he might end up using a plot element from a story that had since been wiped out, thus rendering that particular plot element (and his story) out-of-continuity. 

Also, such a notation might be helpful for anybody wishing to create a recap of a character's life since it would indicate that any major events or revelations that occurred in a marked issue should not just be taken at face value and that further research was required. 

Don Campbell

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 12:06 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

While these are both laudable motivations, it seems to me that the target audiences (Marvel writers, and the writers of recaps of the character's lives) are so small that it's hardly worth the effort. 

However, if someone else--perhaps you, Don--were to write and submit an extensive essay on several occurences of these "continuity wipeouts", and the resultant "event erasures", I'd be glad to use our site to host the article. 

Note that, in the case of the Marvel writer who uses the MCP as a resource, then reads only some of the stories, there are many more traps, and more likely traps for him to fall into, than overlooking events that were wiped out. For instance: It's much more likely that he would read one story, have a question that he thinks opens the door to a good story, then write a story to answer that question, only to find out that the question has already been answered in a story he hasn't read. 

This will always be the case. And I have sympathy for the poor writer, because there are just too many stories to read. But if he's looking for help from the MCP about which questions have been answered, or which events have been affected by "continuity displacements," he's going to be disappointed, at least for the next twenty years. 


watching: alien

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 03:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiped-Out Stories
By Enda80

DonCampbell wrote: 
>>>
To be more precise, I suggested that it might be helpful to indicate which stories in a character's chronology should be ignored (or dealt with very carefully) because they were wiped out of continuity by another story. 
Don Campbell 
<<<


By the way, Mr. Campbell, I must disagree with something you wrote in that earlier post; 
"Second, the Hulk's first encounter with the Abomination (after H2 384) occurs in H2 431-432. While watching a TV news report about how the Abomination kidnapped a woman in the NYC sewers (which, actually, wasn't a kidnapping - Emil was just carrying his friend Sandy away from a dangerous situation), the Hulk mentions how he "stepped in once when (Emil)kidnapped a woman." This seems to confirm that Emil's kidnapping of Nadia (seen in H2 383-384) did take place, even though, thanks to Nebula's trick with the Infinity Gauntlet, the exact circumstances of that kidnapping must have been different from what was depicted in those issues." 
Actually, since the Hulk was one of the people who was at that last battle with Nebula in Infinity Gauntlet (and those people's memory were not erased due to a spell by Doctor Strange), the Hulk still retained memory of what happened in that time period that Nebula erased. 


Oh, something I found; if you want look at what was on the posting board on the old message board, you can use archive.org, then at at particular archived day, click on posting board. It will take you back to the old message board as of a particular day. 
http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.chronologyproject.com

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Thread 4

Posted: 21 Aug 2004 01:20 am    Post subject: Foreigner
By Enda80

Did the real Keating ever make an appearance? I ask because you have Defenders#65 listed as an appearance of the Foreigner. 

For those readers interested, the Silver Sable series, during the GAP, did some back-ups detaling Sable's history, some of which also included the history of the Foreigner. 

http://www.silversable.com/comics/issue-15.html and other iisues

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Posted: 31 Aug 2004 01:01 pm    
By John Omohundro

Enda80: 

I'm not entirely certain, but in PETER PARKER, THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, Volume 1, Issue # 129 (August, 1987), The Foreigner revealed that he had murdered the real Lt. Keating several years earlier in order to assume his identity. 

Also, The Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe (http://www.comicboards.com/marvelguide/), in their entry under "Keating, 'Kris' " remarks as follows: 

"NOTE: Whether or not the real Lt. Keating made any appearances remains to be seen" 

--at least to *ME*, this implies that his first recorded appearance--way back in DEFENDERS , Volume 1, Issue #65 (November, 1978), in which Lt. Keating makes a brief (less than two pages--a full-page panel on page 1, and a few panels on page 2), was *NOT* the real Lt. Keating, but rather, The Foreigner in disguise. If that's the case, then The Foreigner, or at least one of his operatives from The 1400 Club, had been impersonating Keating for almost 8 years (real time) prior to The Foreigner being forced to abandon the Keating disguise as a cover when Spider-Man and The Black Cat exposed the man that the NYPD believed to be Lt. Keating as the real murderer of Kirk Donoghue (a/k/a "Blaze"), a crime for which Spider-Man had been framed (PPTSSM, Volume 1, Issues # 123 through 129, inclusive (February through August, 1987)). 

Sorry I can't be of more help, but my resources are rather limited. I have a collection of SPIDER-MAN titles which contains most of The Foreigner's appearances, as well as the entire run of the SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK series from 1992--95. 

Personally, I've been kind of disappointed that the character hasn't been heard from in ten years (since late 1994). After all, a NON-superpowered villain who can go toe-to-toe with Spider-Man and fight him to a draw? 

Not to name names, but that doesn't happen very often in the superpowered-hero-comic genre.  

--John Omohundro

Last edited by John Omohundro on 17 Sep 2004 03:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 31 Aug 2004 01:37 pm    Post subject: Kris Keating also in Def#44 and #51
By Enda80

KEATING, Lt. KRIS - New York SWAT team, headed special powers task force to oppose superhumans, killed by agents of Foreigner, later impersonated by Foreigner 
*D*--Defenders I#44 (51,[52], 65, Spectacular Spider-Man II#40?, 46, 54(fb), 54 

Keating also made a few other appearances.

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 10:17 am    
By John Omohundro

Enda80: 

Just out of curiosity, was Lt. Keating's death actually shown in the comics? 

I got the impression that The Foreigner (and other members of his organization) has (have) been impersonating him on and off for quite some time, but I'm not familiar enough with the storyline to know when, or if, the aforementioned act was actually shown in the comic books, or just hinted at obliquely. 

Thanks for any help. 

-- John Omohundro

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 06:31 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Surely the simplest way to handle this would be to add a note to the end of the Keating entry saying something to the effect of "Note: see FOREIGNER. The exact point at which the Foreigner replaced Keating is uncertain; some or all of Keating's appearances may be appearances of the Foreigner or his agents." Likewise, the Foreigner's entry would say "See also KEATING, LT. KRIS" at the appropriate point. 

-Sean

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Thread 5

Posted: 04 Sep 2004 03:22 pm    Post subject: Knights of Pendragon
By Dhall

Does anyone know where the first Knights of Pendragon series falls into chronology? 

It must be after Excalibur returns to Earth, due to Captain Britain's costume. So after Excalibur #25. It must also be after #27, as this is the first time since the cross time caper, that Excalibur has seen Dai, Alysande, and Alistaire. 

Judging from publishing dates, July 1990-Dec. 1991, KOP is probably meant to occur before Alan Davis writing era, which begins in #42. 

That also means that KOP has to take place before Excalibur #37, as #37-41 have no breaks between them. (Or that it could be between 41 and 42) 

So, roughly between Excal 27 and 37. Let's examine this period: 

27- Dai, both Stuarts, first time they see Excalibur since the Cross-Time caper 

28 - Gilded Lily issue, Cb and Meggan go to a pub, occurs in one night 

29- Power Pack issue, occurs in one day and one night 

30 features Dai, and both Stuarts, occurs in one night 
31 occurs right after #30. 

32-34 Girl's school from Heck storyline. 34 has both Stuarts. 

35 - has Dai working with Excalibur to hunt down a murderer 

36 is a one part story with Silver Sable 

37-39 Limbo sotry with Alistare Stuart 

40 - Lockheed in surgery continues from 39 

41- continues from 40, Warwolves posing as X-Men. 

42-on Alan Davis run 

Now, no where in these Excalibur's (that I have found) does it mention anyone appearing in Knights of Pendragon. 

KOP appears in six issue storylines, so 1-6 are one story 
7-12 are the second story 
and 13-18, are the third story. 

I have 1-13, and 18, as I am told that these are the ones with X-related characters in them, and that is what I collect. 

#7 curiously, has Brian Braddock (an alcoholic) drinking brandy, which suggests that the writers weren't paying attention to Excalibur, as Brian had stopped drinking shortly after the series began. 

Also this series, has scenes in which Cap. Britian is taking orders from Alysande Stuart (as head of WHO) which is something that he would never do in Excalibur. 

It would be nice to get a better placement for this series, before we write up Issue analysis, so if anyone has any thoughts about this.... 

Dave H

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Posted: 04 Sep 2004 05:11 pm    Post subject: Well, some info
By Enda80

D) Union Jack had his own series in 1998, and the first issue has one of those gatefold "Guide to the Marvel Universe" recap info covers Marvel was doing at the time. There is a large picture of the the Knights of Pendragon in it with the label "Imbued with the mystic power of the Pendragon, which gave him enhanced strength and stamina, Union Jack fought beside the Knights of Pendragon. Now, he once again battle alone, for Queen and country."--info provided by Joseph Charneskie. 
In addition, Namor#12 refers to Union Jack having "the strength of a Pendragon." Namor#12 came out 1991/03. 


F) Excalibur I#64 has Captain Britain talking to an intelligence officer. At one point, the intelligence officer refers to Killpower, Dark Angel, Motormouth, and the Knights of Pendragon. We see them on videoscreens. So this would further establish that they are on Earth-616. 


http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/acpbibs/comicbib.htm 
Issue#22 of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Master Edition also refers to Albion of the Knights of Pendragon under the Merlin entry, noting that Albion is either the reincarnation of Merlin or merely taps into the Pendragon of Merlin. 

Also, Captain Britain's Master Edition entry references the Knights of Pendragon.

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Posted: 04 Sep 2004 05:30 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
That also means that KOP has to take place before Excalibur #37, as #37-41 have no breaks between them. (Or that it could be between 41 and 42)  
<<<


I haven't gone back and checked, but my notes indicate that a gap of a week exists within XCAL 41. And yes, there is a break after XCAL 41. 
My gut reaction is to place the entire run of KOP between XCAL 41 and 42. 

Temporal clues and calendar placement might help, too, once I get around to that time period. Roughly 24 days pass from KOP 1 to the break of a "fortnight" (2 weeks) in KOP 12. Maybe another 5 days pass at the end of the 2-week break in KOP 12-13. I think only 2 days pass in KOP 14-18. So we may be talking about roughly 7-8 weeks for the entire series to occur. KOP 11 presumably occurs in "midwinter."
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 04 Sep 2004 05:42 pm    
By Dhall

I would be very happy if we can place it between 41 and 42. It really doesn't seem to work if we place it much earlier, or later. There is a long enough gap between those issues for other stories to occur in (XF@6, XCAL:P, XCAL:AA) 


Dave H

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Thread 6

Posted: 29 Aug 2004 03:15 pm    Post subject: Question about upcoming calendar
By RLG

I know this is a bit early, but it is my understanding that the next phase of the calendar will cover the peroid between the Infinity War to Maximum Security. Do we have a rough outline as to where Infinity War begins? I have it occuring sometime in YEAR 17, but have no clue as to the month (or even season.) 

Speaking of which, how does this look for a basic outline for YEARS 13 to 18? 

[b]YEAR 13 [/b]- ends shortly after SW II 
[b]YEAR 14 [/b]- includes Evolutionary War, Fall of the Mutants, Inferno (October?), and ends shortly after ASM #314 (Christmas) 
[b]YEAR 15 [/b]- includes Atlantis Attacks, Acts of Vengeance, and ends around the time of FF #347-349 (new Fantastic Four) 
[b]YEAR 16 [/b]- Infinity Gauntlet, SHIELD HQ destroyed, Korvac Saga, and new Avengers mansion is built. [i]Haven't a clue where year ends.[/i] 
[b]YEAR 17 [/b]- Infinity War, Infinity Crusade, Reed Richards & Dr.Doom "die" 
[i]Again, haven't a clue where year ends except Christmas special placements in MCP[/i][b]YEAR 18 [/b]- Clone saga, Mary Jane becomnes pregnant, Atlantis Rising, Onslaught 

Also, in Paul B's Avengers calendar: 

* Iron Man appearance in AA2 #10 is missing 

* Iron Man flashback appearance in AA2 #8 should come b/w CM #16 and JA #16 (fb) 

*Hulk's appearance (as Bruce Banner) should be included in H #154 (fb) 

* The above flashback should be placed b/w pages 15 & 16 of H #148, not just AFTER #148 

- RLG

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Posted: 29 Aug 2004 05:33 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Trying to coax some advance (and premature) info out of me, eh, RLG? :wink: 

I really can't comment on your outline of Years 13-16 at this point (the Avengers: Year By Year coverage ends in August of Year 13, which is the end of the Avengers' tenth year), but your conclusions about Years 17 and 18 are correct.  

Don't hold me to these dates, as things have a tendency to shift as I draw more and more titles under the umbrella, but here's what I have presently: 

Year 17 
Infinity War (May 29-31) 
Infinity Crusade (Sept. 30-Oct. 1) 
A bunch of holiday specials are grouped together at Christmas time 
The year ends with Starblast and the Blood & Thunder crossover between Thor, Silver Surfer, and Warlock titles. 

Year 18 
Mary Jane is pregnant from about Jan. 31 to Oct. 31 (birth of little May) 
The Clone Saga occurs in the spring 
Atlantis Rising (June 25) 
Onslaught (Oct. 10-11) 


And thanks for the suggestions for Avengers: Year By Year. :smile:
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 29 Aug 2004 06:45 pm    
By RLG

Thank you very much Paul. Your "tenative" placements help very much. 

In fact they tie in with another topic I was about to post. It involves SPIDER-MAN HOLIDAY SPECIAL 1995 (which is probaby inside the GAP.) 

In the 5th story, the Human Torch waits for Spidey atop the Statue of Liberty on Christmas morning. He thinks back their Christmas rendevous LAST year. In the flashback, Spider-Man (Peter Parker) talks to Johnny about the fallout of the Torch burning ESU campus (circa FF #373-374.) Johnny's musing is broken by the arrival of Spider-Man (Ben Reilly.) He explains to Johnny that the 'old Spider-Man' was a clone and has moved away with his wife (placing the CURRENT Chirstmas after PPSSM #229.) 

Now your placement of MJ's pregnancy (which I tend to agree with - at least the Halloween reference) prevents ANY Christmas occuring with Ben Reilly as Spider-Man. The flashback Christmas makes sense to me as I have the ESU buring occuring in Autumn of YEAR 17. 

Does anybody out there have an good explaination for the Ben Reilly Christmas??? (keeping in mind that Johnny specifically refers to it as Christmas moring!) 

Thanks again Paul 

- RLG

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Posted: 29 Aug 2004 09:58 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
In the flashback, Spider-Man (Peter Parker) talks to Johnny about the fallout of the Torch burning ESU campus (circa FF #373-374.) ...I have the ESU buring occuring in Autumn of YEAR 17. <<<


Johnny's burning of the ESU campus occurred in FF 371, which I have placed on Sept. 18 of Year 17. And, yes, the flashback in S-MHS '95/5 occurs the following Christmas. 

Since the main story in S-MHS '95/5 occurs while Ben Reilly was Spidey, after Peter moved away, that story must occur between PPTSS 229 (which I've placed on July 20 of Year 18) and PPTSS 240, the beginning of the Revelations storyline that brought back Peter as Spidey, which occurs on "Halloween" of Year 18. (After that, PPTSS 241 occurs in "early December.") So, yes, there IS no Christmas on which S-MHS '95/5 can occur. 

There IS a topical Christmas reference in a Spidey book during that time period -- in SENSM 1, Centennial U. is "off for Christmas break." I've placed this story on August 22 of Year 18. Also, there's a topical Christmas-time reference in NW 68, which I've placed on the previous day, "Saturday," August 21. My inclination is to group such topical references together, assuming (generously) that the writers meant the stories to occur contemporaneously. So my tentative placement for S-MHS '95/5 is on August 21, during the "few days" between FF 405 and 406 (along with FFU 2). 

As for why the Torch would expect to see Spidey on that particular day (as opposed to the real Christmas day)...well, the explanation would be worthy of a No-Prize. 
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 06:44 am    
By RLG

This (admittedly VERY lame) theory just came to me.... 

In the above Christmas story from the previous year, Peter (as Spider-Man) gives Johnny his personal home phone number. It has been a tough year for Johnny, and Peter figures he could use a friend. Peter also tries to unmask, but Johnny discourages him from something he might regret later. 
To me, these events indicate that the two's friendship is growing and maturing with age (they are clearly no longer teenaged rivals.) 

Now with their hectic schedules (crime fighting, time traveling, etc..), the two heroes can't assume to have Christmas day off from "work." 
Knowing this, Johnny and Peter make plans to use the occasion of the First Snow of the season to have a impromptu rendevous. When Ben Reilly swings by that morning, he, or couse, has no knowledge of this agreement. 

This theory is backed by two pieces of evidence found within the story: 
- during the meeting with Johnny and Ben, Johnny doesn't even have a gift. He ends up giving Ben Reilly a FF business card with his phone number!! If it were TRUELY Christmas you would think Johnny would at least have a gift ready to give Peter. (The previous Christmas, Johnny gave Peter a Venom doll (sorry - action figure!!)) 
- Secondly, when Ben Reilly arrives he says, "You sound like you were expecting me." Johnny replies, "Expecting you? "Christmas morning"? Does that ring a bell?" I find it curious that the mention of Christmas moring is in quotation marks, as if Johnny's saying "Hey it snowed last night...so (per are agreement) its "Christmas morning!"" 

That takes care of THAT Christmas (in August) reference. As for any others, well within super-hero circles, Spider-Man and the Human Torch are somewhat the trend setters.... 
(Actually, I'd have to see the other comics in question, but the "trend setter" explaination might actually work if dealing with the New Warriors!) 

BTW, it seems like the upcoming calendar is progressing quite well. I'm suprised at the amount of dates (although tentative) you have established. 
Question #1 - Do you have an ETA on it's release (no rest for the weary!) 
Question #2 - Is their a place where you have listed parts you need help with? The closer we get to the early years the more help I can provide, as I've got every continuity issue (one one form or another - thank you Essentials!) from 1961 - 1979. 

- RLG

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 08:03 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Also, in Paul B's Avengers calendar: 

* Iron Man appearance in AA2 #10 is missing 

* Iron Man flashback appearance in AA2 #8 should come b/w CM #16 and JA #16 (fb) 

*Hulk's appearance (as Bruce Banner) should be included in H #154 (fb) 

* The above flashback should be placed b/w pages 15 & 16 of H #148, not just AFTER #148  
<<<


RLG, 

Iron Man appears in AA2 10? That's not noted in either Marvel Comics Index #8B or the MCP. Can you double-check this? 

According to the Official Marvel Index to the Avengers, vol. 2 #2 (as well as the MCP), Iron Man's BTS appearance in AA2 8-FB is his last appearance before A 93. Your placement between CM 16 (14?) and JA 16-FB is too early. 

Can you give me a rundown of character appearances in each of the following: 
H2 148 (1-16) 
H2 154-FB 
H2 148 (17-22) 

According to the Marvel Comics Index #7A, we have these characters to include in one or more of the above: Hulk, Thunderbolt Ross, Betty Ross, Glenn Talbot, Jarella, Torla, Peter Corbeau, Fialan, Holi, Moli, Visis, Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Ant-Man I. 

Thanks.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 08:59 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
This theory is backed by two pieces of evidence found within the story: 
- during the meeting with Johnny and Ben, Johnny doesn't even have a gift. He ends up giving Ben Reilly a FF business card with his phone number!! If it were TRUELY Christmas you would think Johnny would at least have a gift ready to give Peter. (The previous Christmas, Johnny gave Peter a Venom doll (sorry - action figure!!)) 
- Secondly, when Ben Reilly arrives he says, "You sound like you were expecting me." Johnny replies, "Expecting you? "Christmas morning"? Does that ring a bell?" I find it curious that the mention of Christmas moring is in quotation marks, as if Johnny's saying "Hey it snowed last night...so (per are agreement) its "Christmas morning!""  
<<<


Unfortunately, this explanation is predicated on the existence of snow that must be topical. It IS August, after all. But yes, I can buy that Peter and Johnny must have agreed, sometime prior to PPTSS 229, to meet on this August date as a "Christmas morning" substitute. But why this date? 

It can't be a birthday. Peter's is on May 23 (see ASM 500), and Johnny has his birthday just after this point, in SMTU 3 (which I've placed on Sept. 11). 

And it's made clear that Peter and Johnny have made a tradition out of meeting on Christmas in years prior to S-MHS '95/5-FB, so that's another thing we'll need to allow for as we move back in time. 

Oh, and BTW, the flashback in S-MHS '95/5 must occur not only after the torching of ESU in FF 371, but after Reed's supposed death in FF 381, since Johnny mentions that event specifically. I've placed FF 381 on Nov. 3 of Year 17, so we're okay on that count.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 09:10 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

H2 148 pg 1-16: 

Gen. Thunderbolt Ross 
Betty Banner 
Peter Corbeau 
Glenn Talbot 
Hulk 
Jarella 
Torla 
Jarella's two other priests (I want to say Holey and Moley) 
Visis 
Fialan 
Nick Fury 
Dum Dum Dugan 

H2 148 pg 18-22 
Hulk 
Jarella 
Fialan 
Peter Corbeau 
Gen. Ross 
Glenn Talbot 

H2 154-FB 
Hulk (Bruce Banner) 
Jarella 
Hank Pym 

But, uh, Paul, there's not a break between pages 16 & 17 of H2 148. Pg 17, pn 1 is a thought balloon that continues from the last panel of page 16. 


watching: republican convention

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 09:55 pm    
By RLG

My apologies.. I MEANT AA2 #12 (the one that has the cover where the Beast is standing over Iron Man) That issue is not on the Avengers Calendar. 

Second, the FB in AA2 #8 involves Don Blake giving Leonard Tibbit two months to live. Tibbit tells Don that he is going to see Tony Stark. Thor's (Donald Blake) chronology in the MCP has his FB occuring between T 279 (FB) and JA 16 (FB) I felt that Tibbit's BTS visit to Tony would be right after he left Don (I mean, its not like he has all the time in the world!) 

Third, the Administrator is correct. My apologies again, I MEANT the H 154 FB occured between pages 15 and 16 in H 148. On 15p6, Corbeau gets on a priority phone line to Nick Fury. On 16p1, Nick Fury arrives with a Jarella LMD and on 16p6, Bruce proclaims that Reed Richards and Henry Pym are contributing their expertise (which means the H #154 FB has most likely already occured.) 

Fourth, the snow in August COULD BE explained in a number of different ways (Storm, etc..) I agree that it seems odd, but I'd like to see how many other titles have snowy weather during that time period (if the various Marvel writers were on a "Christmas riff" that month, we might have more snow than can be ignored!!!) 

And finally, I'm sorry for the sloppy mistakes earlier. I will try not to mix my "Tony Stark" time with MCP postings ever again. 

- RLG

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 10:33 pm 
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Okay, I'm a bit confused, and it's partly my fault for mixing up RLG's page references. :embarassed: 

So what we should have is: 
H2 148 (1-15) 
H2 154-FB 
H2 148 (16-22) 

Does this change the character line-up for each listing, as noted by Russ? And Hank Pym does not appear in any superhero identity in H2 154-FB, right? And he can't be counted as BTS in H2 148 as well? And Reed Richards does appear BTS in H2 154-FB, but not BTS in H 148? 

Quote: 
Second, the FB in AA2 #8 involves Don Blake giving Leonard Tibbit two months to live. Tibbit tells Don that he is going to see Tony Stark. Thor's (Donald Blake) chronology in the MCP has his FB occuring between T 279 (FB) and JA 16 (FB) I felt that Tibbit's BTS visit to Tony would be right after he left Don (I mean, its not like he has all the time in the world!)  


"Leonard Tibbit?" Were you thinking of Leonard Tippit from A 101? I think the guy from AA2 8 is Lionel Dibbs, right? Given the Index's (and the MCP's) placement of AA2 8-FB in Iron Man's chronology, maybe we should move that entry in Thor's chronology to a point between IM 39 and AA2 8. BTW, any clue about how long before AA2 8 the flashback occurs? 

Quote: 
Fourth, the snow in August COULD BE explained in a number of different ways (Storm, etc..) I agree that it seems odd, but I'd like to see how many other titles have snowy weather during that time period (if the various Marvel writers were on a "Christmas riff" that month, we might have more snow than can be ignored!!!)  


A couple of points here. If we see really freaky weather and there's no explanation in the comic itself, I prefer to to have an established reason for it published in another book that occurs contemporaneously. Unfortunately, that's not the case here. We *could* chalk it up to some unpublished unnatural phenomenon, but then my second point comes into play -- we should then see the freaky snow in every story set contemporaneously in that geographic area. Alas, there are other New York stories happening at this time that don't show snow. :sad:
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 11:13 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
So what we should have is: 
H2 148 (1-15) 
H2 154-FB 
H2 148 (16-22) 

Does this change the character line-up for each listing, as noted by Russ? 
<<<

Move Fury and Dugan from the first segment to second segment. No other changes are needed. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
And Hank Pym does not appear in any superhero identity in H2 154-FB, right? 
<<<

Correct. He appears as scientist Hank Pym, just as the Hulk appears only as scientist Bruce Banner. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
And he can't be counted as BTS in H2 148 as well? 
<<<


Probably correct. It appears the H2 154-FB supercedes the BTS appearance in H2 148. I think the 148 notation should be removed from Hank Pym's (Yellowjacket's) listing. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
And Reed Richards does appear BTS in H2 154-FB, but not BTS in H 148? 
<<<

Reed does not appear BTS in H2 154-FB. He is behind the scenes in the main story, and he does appear BTS in H2 148. 


watching: league of extraordinary gentlemen

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Posted: 31 Aug 2004 08:49 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Administrator wrote: 
>>> 
Reed does not appear BTS in H2 154-FB. He is behind the scenes in the main story, and he does appear BTS in H2 148.  
<<<

Russ, thanks for addressing my questions. One point of clarification, though: in the text I italicized above, are you saying that Reed appears BTS in H2 154 as well as BTS in H2 148? If so, then H2 154-BTS would need to appear in Reed's MCP listing after H2 153. 


RLG wrote: 
>>>
I MEANT AA2 #12 (the one that has the cover where the Beast is standing over Iron Man) That issue is not on the Avengers Calendar. 
<<<

Thanks, RLG. That AA2 12 entry should go between CA 150 and 151. I have AA2 12 occurring the same night as CA 150.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 11:34 am    
By RLG

Sorry this took so long (and is so long!)... 

Dibbs' first appearance is in AA2 8 (9p2) in which Don Blake gives his some bad news. Don states, "..It's cancer. Even without the hand, youv'e got maybe two months, tops." Dibbs replies, "That .. makes up my mind about something Blake. First, I see a man named Stark...about a NEW hand. Then...I got something to do." That "something" it turns out is to hold a part of San Franscisco hostage until the government cedes to his demands of revitalizing his old ghetto neighborhood. 

Dibbs' next appearance (now with a prosthetic right hand) occurs in AA2 6 (10p6), which leads directly into AA2 7. In San Francisco, Dibbs has snuck up on Black Bolt and Joey (a young boy who has befriended Black Bolt.) In AA2 7, (4p4-5), Dibbs appologizes for the prosthetic's appearance. He states, "I'm sorry. It's become such a part of me...that sometimes I forget it might...upset others." 

Dibbs' final appearance occurs in AA2 8, (10p7-8.) These last two panels are actually a BTS appearance for him. As Black Bolt and Joey watch a TV new report about the capture of Dibbs, the newscaster states, "Due to the overloading of the the court calendar...the Attorney General has predicted that this case will not reach trial for at least two months. When Dibbs was told of this, it is reported that he...smiled." This (obviously ironic) conclusion to the story does not necessarily mean that Dibbs still HAS two months to live, only that he knows he won't be alive to face the charges. 

Dibbs' own comments in AA2 7 lead me to believe that he has had the prosthetic for some time. Of course that "time" is narrowed down considerably by Don Blake's diagnosis. My problem with the FB-BTS appearance of Iron Man in AA2 8, it that it's current placement (in the Avengers Calendar) makes it look as if it occurs a day or two (a week tops) before the main story in AA2 8. Remember, Dibbs would have to have gone from Blake's office, contacted Tony Stark, made arrangements for Tony to create the prosthetic, waited while Tony actually created the prosthetic, return to San Francisco, and finally approach Black Bolt all within the time-frame indicated. 

My opinion is that the FB in AA2 8 fits better where it is in Thor's chronology (between T 279 FB and JA 16 FB - in the MCP.) In the Avenger's calendar, that placement also works better. My earlier attempt to come up with a new placement for Iron Man's FB-BTS, was based on the meshing of Iron Man's and Thor's chronologies in the Avengers Calendar. And yes, I meant CM 14 (not 16.) 

Finally, the assertion that Tony Stark would ACTUALLY make Dibbs a weaponized prosthetic does not seem to fit Tony's character, no matter where you place the FB-BTS. Dibbs might have actually met with Tony after his visit to Don Blake's office, but more that likely Tony turned him down. It seems more likely that Dibbs received his prosthetic from someone like the Tinkerer, but alas we will never know.. 

- RLG

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 02:54 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Thanks for the detailed information, RLG. Based on it, I'm willing to move AA2 8-FB back on the Avengers Calendar, but only to a spot a couple of weeks before AA2 8. I'm still going by the information in the Official Marvel Index to the Avengers, vol. 2 #2, in which Stark's last appearance before A 93 is AA2 8-FB-BTS, and Thor's and Cap's last appearances before A 93 are in AA2 8. This indicates that both the flashback and the main story in AA2 8 occur between IM 39 (Iron Man's, Thor's, and Cap's next appearance after A 88) and A 93. And since IM 40 continues directly from IM 39, AA2 8-FB and AA2 8 both occur between IM 40 and A 93. 

As Dibbs' quest for and mastery of the artificial hand is never shown, the length of time in which these things occur is open to interpretation. I'll have to assume the folks at Marvel took this into account in compiling the Index, which suggests that it didn't take long. I'll allow as much time as I can, though, by ordering the flashback and main story thusly... 

** JANUARY ** -- 
AVENGERS #100 (flashback) 
AVENGERS #88 (flashback) 
AVENGERS #88 
INCREDIBLE HULK II #140 
INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #39 (end) 
INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #40 
INCREDIBLE HULK II #141 (beginning) 
AMAZING ADVENTURES II #8 (1st story: flashback) 
CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON #139 
CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON #140 
CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON#141 
CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON #142 
CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON #143 
ASTONISHING TALES #6 (2nd story) 
ASTONISHING TALES #7 (2nd story) 
INCREDIBLE HULK II #141 (end) 
AVENGERS #99 (2nd flashback) 
FANTASTIC FOUR #111 
FANTASTIC FOUR #112 
FANTASTIC FOUR #113 
AVENGERS #89 (flashback) 
AVENGERS #89 
AVENGERS #90 (flashback) 
AVENGERS #90 
AVENGERS #91 
INCREDIBLE HULK II #142 
AMAZING ADVENTURES II #8 (1st story) 
AVENGERS #92 (beginning) 
CODE OF HONOR #2 (page 2) 
AVENGERS #92 (end) 
AVENGERS #93 (1st flashback) 
AVENGERS #93 
AVENGERS #94 (beginning) 

One other point: placement of AA2 8-FB between T 279-FB and JA 16-FB would mean that AA2 8-FB occurs three months before AA2 8. Assuming Blake's diagnosis was accurate, Dibbs already would be dead by the time of AA2 8. 

I'm still advocating that Thor's MCP chronology be changed to: 
IM 39 
*AA2 8-FB* 
AA2 8 
A 93
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 7

Posted: 17 Apr 2004 12:15 pm    Post subject: Nightmare Chronology Addition
By Scathach80

Nightmare has a one-panel flashback in Doctor Strange II#65. 
A man named Havelock reveals that twelve years before the time of the present portion of the story he washed up on one of the Sunda islands. There he encountered an old woman. During the night, the old woman had to fight off Nightmare, overlord of the Dream dimension. This occurs on pages 10-11. 

A much more significant an interesting addition is Alpha Flight#67. In this flashback, which takes place 800 years ago, Nightmare rapes the demoness Zhilla Char. Then, 350 years ago, Nightmare meddles with the Dreamqueen's schemes. 

So, to add this in 

NIGHTMARE/"EDVARD HABERDASH" 
**AF 67-FB 
SENSM -1 
**DRSTR2 65-FB 
ST 110/2 
ST 116/2 
ST 122/2

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 03:34 pm    Post subject: Nightmare; thought I would ask
By Scathach80

Have the flashbacks with Nightmare and the Dreamqueen been discredited at any point?

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Thread 8

Posted: 06 Sep 2004 05:51 pm    Post subject: Hulk v1 Annual 6
By Ethain

I supose that it's difficult to do it, but I need to place Hulk v1 Annual 6 (1977), somewhere into this list: 

Marvel Team-Up 55 (3/77) 
Avengers Annual 7 (11/77) 
Marvel Two-in-One Annual 2 (12/77) 

There aren't common characters between Hulk Annual and the other 3 issues (except Warlock, and it's a flashback)...

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Posted: 06 Sep 2004 08:37 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

H@ 6 goes between M/TU 55 and A@ 7.
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 9

Posted: 06 Sep 2004 06:26 am    Post subject: x-titles continuity from 1998 and up
By juleonflux

i'm specifically trying to follow the x-men titles, as well as wolverine and x-factor if x-men characters spill over into their titles. darren duncan's chronology.net site only goes up to UXM#353 - Apr 1998 - Blackbirds. i have a lot of catching up to do, but i need some help. a lot of the links i've found on darren's site or 2nd-hand links on the ones that do work have not been helpful. 

any sites w/ a simple list of titles in order?

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Posted: 06 Sep 2004 09:28 am    
By rhod

Check out the post titled 'to Dhall' in the chat forum for David Hall's comprehensive list (a sterling work)

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Posted: 06 Sep 2004 11:06 am    
By Dhall

thanks rhod....

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Posted: 06 Sep 2004 11:57 pm    Post subject: feakin wow
By juleonflux

thanx rhod. dave, this list rocks! thanks man

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Thread 10

Posted: 15 Aug 2004 04:53 am    Post subject: Cyclops - two back story questions
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Cyclops' history is really entirely straightforward (save for a bit of interweaving of different accounts of the aircraft incident, and incorporation of flashbacks from the Wedding Album), but there's a couple of flashbacks in there I don't have access to - any information would be appreciated! 

X-FACTOR #35. This would be during his time at the orphanage, according to the MCP. Anything significant? 

AMAZING FANTASY #17. I gather this refers to a scene where Peter and May Parker watch footage of Scott on TV. It's currently placed between UX 42/2 and UX 44/2 (ie, just after he's recruited by Xavier, but before he goes off to recruit Iceman). What's Scott actually up to in this flashback?
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 15 Aug 2004 05:54 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

By the way, here's what I have for Cyclops' back-story at the moment - save for incorporating a handful of minor scenes from issues not presently listed, it's pretty much in line with the existing listing. 

I see from Jeph's analysis of the Wedding Album that he proposed an appearance for Cyclops as a flashback (in the third diary entry) immediately following CLASSIC X-MEN #42/2. From the description Jeph gave, I'm not sure I understand why - it reads to me like Cyclops' appearance in that scene is just a flashback to his "celestial telegram" scene with Jean in CX 42/2. I've left it out for the moment. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #156, page 10 panels 4-5 (flashback) 
This flashback has the events in question narrated by Corsair. Panel 4 shows the Summers family aircraft, a Dehaviland Mosquito. Panel 5 shows us the interior, with Christopher, Katherine Ann, Scott and Alex Summers inside. Corsair says, in narration, that he was an air force test pilot, returning from leave, in Alaska  a camping trip with your grandparents  to join Project Mercury as an accident. They are following the coast, south of Cape Yakataga. According to issue #144, at this point Scott is 12 and Alex is 6. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #156, page 10 panel 6 (flashback) 
The Shiar craft approaches, viewed from outside. Corsairs narration says that they got a panic call from Anchorage about an unidentified contact heading our way  that isnt depicted. The next thing we knew it was right on top of us. I tried to report on the sighting 

UNCANNY X-MEN #156, page 10 panel 7 (flashback) 
and the ship opened fire. We see the Mosquito dodging a salvo from the Shiar ship, though were told that there was more than one. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #156, page 11 panel 1 (flashback) 
Viewed from outside, we see the Mosquito take the near miss which torches its fuselage and sets light to the aircraft. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #144, page 11 panel 6 (flashback) 
While Christopher wrestles with the controls, Katherine Ann struggles to get Scott and Alex into the parachute. (Christopher says chutes, so they havent yet realised that theres only one parachute. However, only one parachute is seen.) 

UNCANNY X-MEN #144, page 11 panel 7 (flashback) 
The Mosquito takes another hit. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #144, page 12 panel 1 (flashback) 
The cabin fills with smoke. Katherine Ann gets Scott and Alex ready to jump, and is about to shove them out of the hatch. Christopher is not on panel. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #156, page 11 panel 2 (flashback) 
Scott and Alex, strapped into the single parachute, moments after being shoved out of the aircraft. The parachute has not yet been released. Katherine Ann can be seen in the background; Christopher is behind the scenes. 

X-MEN vol 1 #114, page 13 panel 1 (flashback) 
A very vague flashback, showing Scott and Alex without the parachute inflated, and ghostly figures of Christopher and Katherine Ann watching. Effectively swallowed up by later, more detailed flashbacks, this is the first time Scott remembers events. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #144, page 12 panels 2 (flashback) 
Scott and Alex are further away from the Mosquito, but their parachute has not yet opened. The Mosquito blows up behind them (but obviously remains intact in some form, given issue #156s flashback has Scott and Ann seeing the parachute on fire). 

UNCANNY X-MEN #144, page 12 panel 3 (flashback) 
Scott and Alex continue to fall, as the chute is released but is not yet inflated. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #144, page 12 panel 4 (flashback) 
The chute is inflated, but it catches fire. Scott looks up and sees it, while Alex clutches to his chest. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #144, page 12 panel 5 (flashback) 
View from overhead as the burning parachute plummets to earth. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #156, page 11 panel 3 (flashback) 
The Mosquito trails away in the background; Scott and Alexs parachute has been released, and has caught fire. This seems to simply duplicate page 12 panels 4-5 of issue #144. [Corsairs account ends here, as he is teleported away and sees nothing more.] 

X-FACTOR vol 1 #115, page 3 (flashback) 
The parachute continues to fall to the ground. Alex screams for help. [Pages 1-3 of X-FACTOR #115 recap the whole incident from Alexs point of view; only page 3 is new.] 

Scott uses his optic beam to slow the descent (though, strangely, its never actually been shown on panel). He suffers brain damage in the fall which renders him unable to turn his powers off, thereby requiring the use of a visor for the rest of his life. 

X-FACTOR vol 1 #39, page 6 panels 5 to 8 (flashback) 
Scott wakes up in a hospital, I think and sees Mr Sinister standing over him. He uses his optic beam and blasts off the roof. Some sort of metal equipment subdues him and a needle injects him. 

X-FACTOR vol 1 #35 (flashback) is placed here  what is it? 
Scott remains unconscious for the next year, and when he wakes, he is told that he has been in a coma. 

CLASSIC X-MEN #41, second story 
A Scott Summers story by Chris Claremont. Scott is 12 and living in the orphanage in Nebraska. His only friend is his roommate Nate (originally intended to be a disguised Mr Sinister). Scott and Nate are bullied by Toby Rails, but Mr Sinister appears and makes Toby commit suicide by jumping from the roof. Scott fails to save him. Meanwhile, new doctor Robyn Hanover arrives at the orphanage and tries to investigate Scotts mysterious past, despite being warned off by the chief administrator. 

CLASSIC X-MEN #42, second story 
Second half of the story. Robyn befriends Scott and introduces him to possible adoptive parents. Mr Sinister tires of her meddling and abducts her. Robyn has a sudden attitude change and stops caring about Scott. The potential adoptive parents, the Bogarts, are murdered (presumably by Sinister), but nobody tells Scott this. Scott resolves to run away from the orphanage as soon as he can. That night, he has a dream in which he makes brief mental contact with Charles Xavier and Jean Grey. 

X-MEN (first series) #38, second story (flashback) 
While on a field trip, Scott uses his optic beam to save a crowd from a falling air-conditioning unit. (The Synopsis in the original X-Men Index doesn't indicate Scott making any appearances in this story other than a flashback - he's seen in film footage watched by Duncan and Xavier.) 

X-MEN (first series) #39, second story (flashback) 
Scott flees from a mob who think he made the machine fall on them. He gets a freight train to New Jersey. 

X-MEN (first series) #39, second story 
Arriving in New Jersey, Scott is telepathically lured to a shack where he meets Jack ODiamonds, a low-rent supervillain convinced that he is born to rule. 

X-MEN (first series) #40, second story 
Jack ODiamonds enlists Scott as his reluctant sidekick. They return to the nuclear power station where Jack got his powers. Jack hopes to increase his powers further, by increased exposure to radiation. Professor X arrives. 

X-MEN (first series) #41, second story 
Scott is present as Professor X fights Jack ODiamonds. 

X-MEN (first series) #42, second story, pages ??? 
Professor X and Scott defeat Jack, who is seemingly destroyed. Xavier takes Scott back to the Mansion. 

UNCANNY X-MEN #309 (flashback, behind the scenes) 
Scott is present in the Mansion, but not seen, while Xavier and Amelia Voght argue about him. 

X-MEN (first series) #42, second story, pages ??? 
Scott is given his visor and costume, and becomes Cyclops. 

AMAZING FANTASY (first series) #17 (flashback) 
Scott is seen on a TV show, which is watched by Peter and May Parker. (Details?) 

X-MEN (first series) #44, second story 
Cyclops is sent to rescue Bobby Drake from protective custody. 

X-MEN (first series) #45, second story 
Cyclops and Bobby fight one another, and attract attention. 

X-MEN (first series) #46, second story 
Professor X saves Cyclops and Bobby from the mob. Bobby joins the X-Men as Iceman. 

X-MEN (first series) #55, second story, page 1-4 
The X-Men detect the Angel 

UNCANNY ORIGINS #3, page 12 
Professor X sends Cyclops and Iceman to get him 

X-MEN (first series) #55, second story, page 5 
and Cyclops and Iceman confront the Angel in his apartment. 

X-MEN (first series) #56, second story 
The X-Men subdue the Angel and he joins the team. 

X-MEN (first series) #51, second story 
The X-Men learn that Hank McCoy has been kidnapped 

X-MEN (first series) #52, second story 
track him down 

X-MEN (first series) #53, second story, page 1 to page 5 panel 3 
and rescue him and his parents. 

UNCANNY ORIGINS #6, page 16 panels 2-3 
Everyone goes back to Hanks house, where Xavier delivers some exposition to tie up some loose ends from the plot 

X-MEN (first series) #53, second story, page 5 panels 4-5 
and the Beast joins the X-Men. 

MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #85, third story (flashback) 
Cyclops, Angel and Iceman subdue an enraged Beast. 

X-MEN (first series) #1 
The X-Men debut against Magneto. First published appearance of Cyclops. 

That gives the following listing:- 

UX 156-FB 
UX 144-FB 
UX 156-FB (swapping places with the entry below) 
UX 114-FB (swapping plaecs with the entry above) 
UX 144-FB 
XF 115-FB 
XF 39-FB 
XF 35-FB (?) 
CX 41/2 
CX 42/2 
UX 38/2-FB 
UX 39/2-FB 
UX 39/2 
UX 40/2 
UX 41/2 
UX 42/2 
UX 309-FB-BTS 
UX 42/2 
AAF 17-FB (?) 
UX 44/2 
UX 45/2 
UX 46/2 
UX 55/2 
*UO 3 
UX 55/2 
UX 56/2 
UX 51/2 
UX 52/2 
UX 53/2 
*UO 6 
UX 53/2 
MCP 85/3-FB
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Aug 2004 10:26 am    
By Dhall

Paul, 

I added some listings to Cyclops, Katherine Anne Summers, Corsair, and D'ken in two threads on the Marvel Universe forum. 

Katherine Anne Summers and Corsair 
Cyclops - origin 


Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Aug 2004 02:06 pm    
By Dhall

Amazing Fantasy 17 Page 7 

On TV: 

Cyclops fires his optic blast into the air, destroying a crate. The paniced 
crowd reacts by pointing at him, and looking menacingly, but Scott has managed to run away. 


Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Aug 2004 02:20 pm    
By Peter Fabricius

Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
AMAZING FANTASY #17. I gather this refers to a scene where Peter and May Parker watch footage of Scott on TV. It's currently placed between UX 42/2 and UX 44/2 (ie, just after he's recruited by Xavier, but before he goes off to recruit Iceman). What's Scott actually up to in this flashback? 
<<<


He is seen disintegrating some falling rubble, he is in civilian clothes, and holding his glasses in his hands. Then he is chased by a mob. 
Peter is watching this on TV. 
Scott seems to be wearing the same clothes as in UX 39/2. 
I only have reprints of 39/2, 41/2, 44/2, 45/2, 46/2 and 47/2. So I can't be of much help with placement.
_________________
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Aug 2004 03:07 pm    
By Dhall

From my brief notes, and without actually opening up the issue: 

X-Factor 35 Flashback 
Page 6 Panels 1-3: At the Orphanage, Scott and Nathan get into a fight. Nathan steals his glasses, and dares Scott to look at him. 


Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Aug 2004 05:42 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Thanks, guys. 

Sounds like AAF 17-FB is simply a rehash of a scene from UX 39/2. So either it's not an original flashback at all, or it's presently out of sequence and should fit between panels of UX 39/2 somewhere. 

XFAC 35-FB is about what I was expecting, but it's good to have it confirmed.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Aug 2004 06:03 pm    
By Dhall

Here's a repost, from an earlier thread, (since not everyone who's reading this is going to go back and look for old threads after all...) 

While reviewing UO 1 for cannonicity, I noticed some other problems with Scott's listing. 


There is no such thing as UX 39/2-FB. Scott appears in some non-flashback scenes which occur after his app. in UX 38/2-FB. 
Yes, these probably happen before the events of UX 38/2, but that doesn't make them a flashback (Especially since Scott isn't in 38/2.) 

Scott does NOT appear in UX 38/2 (only in it's already placed) flashback. 

So: 
CYCLOPS II/SCOTT SUMMERS 
UX 156-FB 
UX 144-FB 
UX 114-FB 
UX 156-FB 
UX 144-FB 
XF 115-FB 
XF 39-FB 
XF 35-FB 
CX 41/2 
CX 42/2 
UX 38/2-FB 
(UX 39/2-FB) Remove, no such fb. 
(UX 38/2) Remove, Scott does not appear in this story. 
UX 39/2 
UX 40/2 
UX 41/2 
UX 42/2 
UX 309-FB-BTS 
UX 42/2 

Additional listings: 

Dr. Robyn Hanover 
CX 41/2 
CX 42/2 

Rails, Toby 
CX 41/2 

Bogart, Rick 
CX 42/2 

Bogart, Trish 
CX 42/2 

JACK O'DIAMONDS 

**UX 40/2-FB 
UX 39/2 
UX 40/2 
UX 41/2 
UX 42/2 
S-H2 34 
S-H2 35

			*	*	*

Posted: 07 Sep 2004 10:47 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

One further addition to the list (from a gap book which seems to be listed for some characters and not others): X 18 contains yet another flashback to Scott and Alex parachuting from the aircraft with their parachute on fire. There's a new line of dialogue ("Hang on, Alex - hang on!"), so it's another original appearance for both Scott and Alex. That gives us the following:- 

UX 156-FB 
UX 144-FB 
UX 156-FB 
UX 114-FB 
UX 144-FB 
*X 18-FB 
XF 115-FB 
XF 39-FB 
XF 35-FB 
CX 41/2 
CX 42/2 
UX 38/2-FB 
UX 39/2-FB 
UX 39/2 
UX 40/2 
UX 41/2 
UX 42/2 
UX 309-FB-BTS 
UX 42/2 
UX 44/2 
UX 45/2 
UX 46/2 
UX 55/2 
UO 3 
UX 55/2 
UX 56/2 
UX 51/2 
UX 52/2 
UX 53/2 
UO 6 
UX 53/2 
MCP 85/3-FB
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Thread 11

Posted: 06 Sep 2004 08:41 pm    Post subject: Havok & Wolverine: Meltdown
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Here are the characters in H&W:M 1-4: 

Dr. Neutron 
Havok 
Meltdown I 
Quark I/Scarlett McKenzie 
Wolverine 

The middle three characters are not in the MCP, as far as I can tell. (Tabitha Smith should be "Meltdown II" and the Quark who debuted in X@ 1 should be "Quark II.") 

I don't have the trade paperback, which I presume has added content, given that it's listed separately in the key. Perhaps it provides an explanation about why the MCP lists Sugar Man as BTS in this series?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 06 Sep 2004 08:55 pm
By ADMINISTRATOR

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
The middle three characters are not in the MCP, as far as I can tell. 
<<<


If by "middle three" you mean Havok, Meltdown and Quark, Havok is listed. He appears here just before UX 246. Quark is listed, under McKenzie, Scarlett. 


watching: monday night raw

			*	*	*

Posted: 06 Sep 2004 10:22 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
If by "middle three" you mean Havok, Meltdown and Quark, Havok is listed. He appears here just before UX 246. Quark is listed, under McKenzie, Scarlett.  
<<<

Nah, I meant Dr. Neutron, Quark I (instead of McKenzie), and Meltdown I. :embarassed: I couldn't double-check McKenzie at the time I posted, as the search function wasn't loading. 

Anyway, I think Dr. Neutron and Meltdown I should be added to the MCP, McKenzie should be listed under Quark I, Quark renamed Quark II, and Meltdown renamed Meltdown II.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 07 Sep 2004 08:22 am
By Ant-Man

Speaking of Quark, I'm surprised that his appearances in the Longshot limited series are not listed...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 07 Sep 2004 07:02 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Ditto for several other characters. I've got the trade paperback handy, and can check for missing appearances tonight. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 12

Posted: 24 Jul 2004 04:29 pm    Post subject: Yon-Rogg
By Dhall

Does the MCP not have an entry for Colonel Yon-Rogg of the Kree? 

He's not under Y, R, or C. 

Dave H 

No entry for Medic Una either.

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Jul 2004 06:27 am    Post subject: The Rogg clan
By StAkAr Karnak

There is an entry for ZEY-ROGG. IIRC, Yon was the father, and we've seen two sons and a daughter (who was a blueskin). It's difficult to alphabetize the surnames with that pesky hyphen. 

- SK

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Jul 2004 05:36 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Look in the Issue Analysis folder for the "Untold Legend of Captain Marvel" analysis. To the best of my knowledge, the appearances I listed in the chronologies in that thread are these two characters' only appearances. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Jul 2004 06:01 pm    
By Dhall

Thanks Sean.

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Jul 2004 01:44 pm    Post subject: UNA
By Ant-Man

Una's animated corpse was seen in Captain Marvel #29 and Captain Marvel #40...do these constitute appearances?
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Jul 2004 11:34 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Yep. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 Sep 2004 10:12 am    Post subject: Yon-Rogg and Una
By dimadick

Actualy Yon-Rogg and Una debuted in Marvel Super-Heroes II #12 (December, 1967) and were regulars of the first Captain Marvel series. 

See: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/yonroggk.htm 

and http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/unamedic.htm

			*	*	*

Thread 13

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 12:44 am    Post subject: REQUEST: Alpha Watch
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Hey, folks. As some of you know, I'm an enormous Alpha Flight fan. It's my goal (my sad, sad goal) to collect every appearance of Alpha Flight ever published. 

Since I order my comics online these days and don't get to the comic shop as often as I should, I can't flip through each week's releases and spot those rare unsolicited AF cameos. So I'd like to set up some kind of MCP flagging system -- where folks alert me to cameos or appearances of AF in titles where they don't normally appear, or weren't solicited to appear. 

I need spotters. Can anyone help? 

I started a similar thread for the X-Men, but this one might be even more important -- since the Flight is seen so much more rarely than the X-Men. 

So if anyone has seen any Flight members recently, in books besides their own title ... please post, and let me know. And from now on, if anyone spots 'em, please flag it up. 

That way (and here's where I bring it on-topic), I can buy the books, chronologize the appearances, and better contribute to the MCP... 


Here's a quick alpha list of everyone I consider an Alpha Flight member or associate: 

Auric 
Aurora 
Box (Roger Bochs) 
Box IV (Madison Jeffries) 
Centennial 
Diamond Lil 
Earthmover (not to be confused with Earth-Mover) 
Feedback 
Flashback 
Flex 
Ghost Girl II 
Goblyn 
Groundhog 
Guardian / Vindicator (James MacDonald Hudson) 
Major Mapleleaf II 
Manbot 
Manikin (also Proto, Highbrow, and Apeman  not to be confused with Ape Man I or II) 
Marrina 
Murmur II 
Nemesis II (is this the current Nemesis as well?) 
Northstar (also covered on the X-Watch thread, but post anyway) 
Pathway 
Persuasion 
Puck 
Puck II 
Radius 
Saint Elmo 
Sasquatch 
Sasquatch II 
Shaman 
Silver 
Smart Alec 
Snowbird 
Stitch 
Talisman II 
Vindicator II / Guardian II (Heather McNeil Hudson) 
Vindicator III / Guardian V (James MacDonald Hudson  clone) 
Wildchild (also covered on the X-Watch thread, but post anyway) 
Windshear 
Witchfire 
Wolverine (also covered on the X-Watch thread, but post anyway) 
Wyre 
Yukotujakzurjimozoata ("Yukon Jack"?) 


...Did I miss anyone? 

-Jeph!

Last edited by jephyork on 05 Sep 2004 11:36 am; edited 2 times in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 08:03 am    
By Ant-Man

What about Wild Child/Weapon Omega? 
He was definitely a member... 

I've been collecting every appearances of the Alphans (except Wolverine) since Byrne's Alpha Flight #1 came out. I think it's been fairly easy so far...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 09:08 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Princeton, Rutherford III (Centennial?)  
<<<

Yes, his codename is confirmed as "Centennial," so you can list him alphabetically in the "C"s. 

Quote: 
>>>
Nemesis II (is this the current Nemesis as well?)  
<<<

Presumably.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 10:56 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
What about Wild Child/Weapon Omega? He was definitely a member... 
<<<

Yeah, thanks! Sorry, I forgot to take him off my X-list and add him here. 

Quote: 
>>>
I've been collecting every appearances of the Alphans (except Wolverine) since Byrne's Alpha Flight #1 came out. I think it's been fairly easy so far... 
<<<

Oh yeah? Did you catch their appearance in Death Metal #1-2 and Death Metal vs. Genetix #1?  

Quote: 
>>>
his codename is confirmed as "Centennial" 
<<<

Where? I only see it in the "Previously" pages, which are dubious canon. I'm sure his codename *will eventually BE* Centennial -- but to my knowledge, it hasn't yet been in the story itself. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 11:16 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

The codename "Centennial" was used by Nemesis in issue #5 (specifically, page 3, panel 1: "Centennial - the floor?!"). He must have settled on it on his way to the Plodex ship. 

On the other hand, nobody has yet used the name "Yukon Jack", though Major Mapleleaf said something very similar while stumbling over the character's full name.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 11:33 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Thanks, Paul. heck, thanks to both Pauls! 

You know, I used to have a really good memory for this stuff. What happened? 

::mutter:: now I have to type out Jack's full name... ::grumble:: 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 12:13 pm    
By Ant-Man

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Did you catch their appearance in Death Metal #1-2 and Death Metal vs. Genetix #1?  
>>> 


I picked up the Death Metal issues a long time ago, and I found out about the Death Metal vs Genetix appearances during our recent Marvel UK thread. I went out and picked it up the same day!
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 01:20 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Well, now, wait. 

In the discussion earlier this week about Firefist, several people, including Jeph and Paul O'Brien, contended that Rusty Collins should be listed under Rusty Collins because Rusty had never referred to *himself* as Firefist. And yet, with no evidence that Princeton Rutherford III has ever referred to himself as Centennial, we are to use that as his codename? 

For the record, I believe that the listings should read Firefist and Centennial, but that's just me. 


watching: married with children

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 02:16 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
For the record, I believe that the listings should read Firefist and Centennial, but that's just me.  
<<<

And Yukon Jack, too. I agree with you, Russ. I also tend to have a preference (okay, a bias) for listing codenames, however referenced or briefly used.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 02:54 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Administrator wrote: 
>>>
In the discussion earlier this week about Firefist, several people, including Jeph and Paul O'Brien, contended that Rusty Collins should be listed under Rusty Collins because Rusty had never referred to *himself* as Firefist. And yet, with no evidence that Princeton Rutherford III has ever referred to himself as Centennial, we are to use that as his codename? 
<<<


The difference is context. 

For one thing, Centennial was shown discussing possible codenames with Nemesis in the previous issue, so we know he discussed it with her. There's every reason to assume that Nemesis is calling him that because it's his chosen name. (Not least because editorial content makes it abundantly clear that that will be his codename - if he hasn't chosen it now, he certainly will in the very near future.) 

On the other hand, nobody has EVER referred to Rusty Collins as Firefist other than a bunch of villains who captured him and held him prisoner for a couple of issues. By that logic, if J Jonah Jameson was captured by HYDRA and made to wear a sign saying "Captain Publisher" for two panels, we'd move all his appearances to an entry headed "Captain Publisher" where almost nobody would ever find them again. 

Even Marvel, in the Official Handbook Update '89, listed Rusty as "Collins, Rusty", not as "Firefist." Almost nobody using the site will even have heard of the name, the character never used it as a codename, and if you were to ask his fellow cast members what the name "Firefist" meant to them, they'd sit there and rack their brains for a few minutes before asking if it had something to do with the Right. In other words, simply put, it's not his name! 

There are predecessors for characters adopting codenames that were inflicted on them against their will (such as Havok), but to banish Rusty's entire listing to a part of the site where almost nobody will ever find it, solely on the basis of a couple of issues where somebody else called HIM Firefist seems... at the very least, not user friendly.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 03:05 pm 
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

In Rusty's case, the major concern seems to be finding his listing. Nothing a good cross-referencing can't handle. Your options: 

RUSTY COLLINS 
See Firefist 

or 

FIREFIST 
See Rusty Collins 


This did make me think of someone who had, not one, but two codename aliases and yet is listed under his real name -- Rick Jones. Can we add "/BUCKY IV/HULK II" after his name?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 04:32 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
The difference is context. 

For one thing, Centennial was shown discussing possible codenames with Nemesis in the previous issue, so we know he discussed it with her. There's every reason to assume that Nemesis is calling him that because it's his chosen name. (Not least because editorial content makes it abundantly clear that that will be his codename - if he hasn't chosen it now, he certainly will in the very near future.) 
<<<


None of which is evidence that the character has referred to himself as Centennial. My point being that codenames should be determined not by how the character refers to himself, but how the books refer to the character. 


watching: kentucky v. louisville

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 Sep 2004 11:57 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
None of which is evidence that the character has referred to himself as Centennial. 
<<<

It's not strict PROOF, but I'd argue that it IS "evidence". Strong inference, at the very least. 

Personally, I believe that characters should be listed by the codename or name that THEY have adopted -- possibly even DESPITE what the books refer to them as. 

Using Rusty as our tired old example, we have no idea where the Right got the "Firefist" moniker -- but they sure didn't get it from him, as neither he nor anyone else has ever used that name to refer to him. It's quite likely that they came up with it themself. 

And we do have precedent for characters that are captured and re-named -- we either link the "re-name" to the old listing (as when Archangel, Caliban and Wolverine became Death II-IV), or we ignore the "re-name" altogether (as when Wolfsbane and Storm were transformed into Mutate #490 and #20). 

If we're going to be consistent with the way we've treated the "Death" listings -- simply redirecting them to the listing of the character's CHOSEN name -- then we should do the same here. "Firefist" should read "see Collins, Rusty" -- not the other way around. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 14

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 10:59 am    Post subject: Rusty Collins -- Firefist?
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I was trying to look up X-Factor and New Mutants supporting character Rusty Collins just now, and couldn't find him under either R or C -- so I used the Search feature and came up with: 

FIREFIST/RUSTY COLLINS 

"Firefist"? Maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't recall him EVER taking that name in the books. Or if he did, it was only for a short while -- I was under the impression that he had always just used "Rusty" as his code-name. 

Can anyone shed some light on this? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 11:24 am    
By PeteD

A quick Google suggests the name Firefist was given to him by The Right ( in issue 23 of X Factor) but never used by Rusty.

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 01:00 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

If he ever used the name, it was for a very, very short period. I agree that the entry ought to be moved to COLLINS, RUSTY - even the Official Handbook didn't go with "Firefist". I can't imagine anyone looking for him there.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 01:56 pm 
By Dhall

Off the top of my head, it was the RIGHT that called him Firefist. I don't belive that he ever used a code name. Of course, this is the closest that he ever got to one. Since he never used it, does it really count as an official name? 


Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 01:57 pm    
By Peter Fabricius

It is in X-Factor 22 page 2, one of the Right's smiley faced troopers in combat armor says 'Rusty -- the Fire-Fist! Get him! Get...' as he? is being hit by Rusty's blast from his left hand. 

On page 4 he is called it again, as they place a power-dampening helmet on his head. It has the name Fire-Fist on it. 

It is stated that all the helmets have names on them, but this is the only place in #22 and 23 where a name can be seen.
_________________
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

			*	*	*

Thread 15

Posted: 10 Sep 2004 10:39 am    Post subject: D'Spayre Addition; DRSTR3 33/2 revealed
By Enda80

D'SPAYRE 
**DRSTR3 33/2-FB 
M/TU 68 
DRSTR2 32 
DRSTR2 37 
UX 144 
DRSTR2 55 

That storyline revealed his origin, DRSTR3 33/2.

			*	*	*

Thread 16

Posted: 06 Sep 2004 03:06 pm    Post subject: Cap and Concen Camps; he wasn't around........
By Enda80

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/bulwarkberditchev.htm 
"As a youth, Berdtichev was saved from a concentration camp by 
Captain America." 
This is strange. Near as I can tell, Steve Rogers/Captain 
America was lost in early May 1945 in that battle with Zemo per What If#4 (which took place on Earth-616) et al. So, one would think that he would not have been around for the liberation of the concentration camps. 
I remember Namor Annual#1 had a flashback with Captain 
America and Bucky at a concentration camp, but that story left it 
vague as to whether that was Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes or the 
Spirit of '76 and Fred Davis. 
So, what should we do; everytime they show Captain America freeing someone from a concentration camp, should we say it was the Spirit of '76?

			*	*	*

Posted: 10 Sep 2004 03:40 pm    
By Jhaeman

I wouldn't worry about this--we can assume that Cap was involved in the liberation of one or two "small" concentration camps before May 1945 and before the public found out about the larger ones . . .

			*	*	*

Thread 17

Posted: 10 Sep 2004 02:35 pm    Post subject: Magus I
By Ethain

As part of my comprehensive Adam Warlock Bibliography Project, I have included in it also Her/Kismet, Magus I, Goddess and the Infinity Gems. And it is going quite well but it's not easy, so I'm using this forum often lately. Now I'm reading all issues related with Infinity Wars & Crusade, indexing both Goddess and Magus. But I need now one more thing and it's the post Infinity Crusade apperances of Magus I, in Captain Marvel series, for example. Anyone can help me?

			*	*	*

Posted: 10 Sep 2004 02:55 pm    
By Ant-Man

Captain Marvel (1999-2002) #32 
Captain Marvel (1999-2002) #33 
Captain Marvel (1999-2002) #34 

Captain Marvel (2002-2004) #21 
Captain Marvel (2002-2004) #22 
Captain Marvel (2002-2004) #24
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 11 Sep 2004 03:16 am    
By John Simons

By the way, Jeph hasn't organized a "Warlock-watch" yet, but in case you don't know Warlock, Gamora and Pip all appear in this week's She-Hulk (#7)

			*	*	*

Posted: 11 Sep 2004 07:33 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

And I doubt I will. 

Heh -- maybe we should organize some kind of General Watch, that notes when characters guest-star anywhere outside their own books. Like "Spider-Man appeared in this week's Invaders", that sort of thing. 

Gladiator appeared in She-Hulk #7, too, for all your X-treme X-heads. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 11 Sep 2004 08:17 am    
By Ant-Man

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
maybe we should organize some kind of General Watch, that notes when characters guest-star anywhere outside their own books. Like "Spider-Man appeared in this week's Invaders", that sort of thing. 
<<<


That would be helpful. 
If anyone else has specific characters that they collect, they might as well let everyone here know, so we can keep a watch. The 'forum-folks' pointing out appearances that aren't listed in the MCP can only stand to help the MCP in the long run.
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 11 Sep 2004 08:24 am    Post subject: Appearances in other titles
By PeteD

I'll start the unsolicited ball rolling with: 

Captain America, who appears on one page of Runaways issue 17. 

Pete.

			*	*	*

Posted: 11 Sep 2004 10:52 am    
By Ethain

Thank you very very very much for Warlock appearance in She-Hulk 7, really, I'd lost it without your help! 

A Warlock related watch would be very interesting for me, of course!, but also I need help for making the bibliography for Walock (and Goddess, and Magus, as parts of himself, and Her/Kismet, and even as last effort make a Infinity Gems bibliography). Now I think I have all the material (except Infinity Gems), but I need help to put order in it. Which is the best way to do it? Using this forum means introduce very long lists and I'm not sure if this is the right way...

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Thread 18

Posted: 12 Sep 2004 05:16 am    Post subject: She-Hulk
By Ethain

I though that She-Hulk had lost the possibility or return to his "normal" form, but I'm seeing in her ongoing series that she can do it again. In which moment regained she that?

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 11:56 am    
By John Simons

Avengers Vol. 3 #67

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Thread 19

Posted: 09 Sep 2004 10:14 am    Post subject: Doctor Strange Question; that is his real name
By Enda80

I just noticed something. Dr. Strange is listed under the D's. However, what is stran...er odd, is that Dr. Strange is in fact his real name! He has Strange as a patronymic, he graduated medical school and was accredited as a doctor. So it is not an alias.

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 10:21 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

"Dr. Strange" isn't his "real name", John ... unless his first name is Doctor. 

I see what you're saying, though. Yes, he has a doctorate and "Dr. Strange" is his medical title. But it's also the name he's widely recognized by in the superhero set -- and one could argue that that consitutes a "codename". 

More to the point, it's the title on his comic, and the name most widely recognized by fans -- meaning that folks who come to the MCP to look for his chronology will probably look in the "D"s before they look in the "S"s. Although it's arguable that he COULD be filed under "Strange, Doctor Stephen", it makes more practical sense to list him in such a way that casual visitors to the site can actually FIND him. 

IMO, anyway. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 10:35 am    
By Ant-Man

This seems like a good time to bring up the "Doctor" subject... 
Doctor Doom, Doctor Demonicus, etc. are listed under 
DR. _______ . 

If you scroll down the "D" page, looking for DOCTOR DOOM, you won't find him in the DO's...you need to go down to the DR's 

When using "Doctor" as a title, Dr. seems very appropriate, but when it is used in the alias of a character, Doctor would seem more fitting, and would also get these characters filed under the DO's, where most "casual" visitors would look for them...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 11:38 am    
By John Simons

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
I just noticed something. Dr. Strange is listed under the D's. However, what is stran...er odd, is that Dr. Strange is in fact his real name! He has Strange as a patronymic, he graduated medical school and was accredited as a doctor. So it is not an alias. 
<<<


C'mon, you didn't "just notice" this. You commented on it when this conversation came up the first time, a couple months back.

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 03:57 pm    
By SKleefeld [DIRECTOR]

Ant-Man wrote: 
>>>
This seems like a good time to bring up the "Doctor" subject... 
Doctor Doom, Doctor Demonicus, etc. are listed under 
DR. _______ . 

If you scroll down the "D" page, looking for DOCTOR DOOM, you won't find him in the DO's...you need to go down to the DR's 

When using "Doctor" as a title, Dr. seems very appropriate, but when it is used in the alias of a character, Doctor would seem more fitting, and would also get these characters filed under the DO's, where most "casual" visitors would look for them... 
<<<


Well, in the case of Dr. Doom, he has NOT -- to the best of our knowledge -- ever received a doctorate in anything. He was kicked out of college before he graduated, and went roaming around Tibet. 

Is Captain Ultra really a captain? No. Is Dr. Druid really a doctor? Or a druid? No. 

There's just a distinction between the character's code name and their real name. In the case of Dr. Strange, they happen to be the same. The same with Marvel's original Captain Marvel and Bucky Barnes. Conversly, some characters are named something that they're not: the android Human Torch, the second Captain Marvel, and the decidedly caucasian Black Bolt.

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 05:39 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

SKleefeld wrote: 
>>>
Well, in the case of Dr. Doom, he has NOT -- to the best of our knowledge -- ever received a doctorate in anything. He was kicked out of college before he graduated, and went roaming around Tibet. 
<<<


To be fair, I'd imagine that like all good tinpot dictators, he got himself a nice little honorary degree from the Univesity of Doomstadt.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 06:04 pm    
By Ant-Man

SKleefeld wrote: 
>>>
Well, in the case of Dr. Doom, he has NOT -- to the best of our knowledge -- ever received a doctorate in anything. He was kicked out of college before he graduated, and went roaming around Tibet. 
<<<


I was not implying that Doctor Doom ever received a doctorate. 
My point is that "Doctor Doom" comes across as an honest-to-goodness code-name/alter ego/alias, while "Dr. Doom" implies, well, Dr. Bob Doom (evil dentist!)--a person who IS a doctor, and happens to have the last name Doom. 

I'm just suggesting the use of "Doctor" when it is their alias, and "Dr." when it is their title. The main benefit is the alphabetical placement of the names. I would search for "DOCTOR DOOM" in the DO's instead of "DR. DOOM" in the DR's
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 07:18 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Ant-Man wrote: 
>>>
I'm just suggesting the use of "Doctor" when it is their alias, and "Dr." when it is their title. The main benefit is the alphabetical placement of the names. I would search for "DOCTOR DOOM" in the DO's instead of "DR. DOOM" in the DR's 
<<<


Ditto for the Misters. 

-Sean

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 01:19 am    
By John Simons

SKleefeld wrote: 
>>>
Is Captain Ultra really a captain? No. Is Dr. Druid really a doctor? Or a druid? No. 
<<<


Come to that, is Captain America really a captain? I thought not, he was always a private during WWII and he's not in the military in modern times, yet lately in comics it seems like a lot of officers and SHIELD agents and the like keep referring to him as "Captain Rogers". Where did this come from? He's not really a captain, right? Captain America's a codename, or so I thought.

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 03:18 am    
By PeteD

Good question. Is there not a possibility that after the work he did as Captain America, he wouldn't receive official recognition for it. 

Some people have war medals for far less, but I still hope he beats Bush. :smile:

Pete.

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 04:03 pm    
By Skleefeld [DIRECTOR]

Ant-Man wrote: 
>>>
I was not implying that Doctor Doom ever received a doctorate. 
My point is that "Doctor Doom" comes across as an honest-to-goodness code-name/alter ego/alias, while "Dr. Doom" implies, well, Dr. Bob Doom (evil dentist!)--a person who IS a doctor, and happens to have the last name Doom. 
<<<

Heh. I remember that issue!  


Ant-Man wrote: 
>>>
I'm just suggesting the use of "Doctor" when it is their alias, and "Dr." when it is their title. The main benefit is the alphabetical placement of the names. I would search for "DOCTOR DOOM" in the DO's instead of "DR. DOOM" in the DR's 
<<<

I see your point, but A) it's very rarely written in the comics as "Doctor Doom" -- it's usually "Dr. Doom", "Dr. Octopus", "Mr. Fantastic", etc. So in that thinking, it makes sense to list them under DR. B) we've already got in the MCP as "DR" so why confuse people by switching it to "DOCTOR"?

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 04:05 pm    
By Skleefeld [DIRECTOR]

John Simons wrote: 
>>>
Come to that, is Captain America really a captain? I thought not, he was always a private during WWII and he's not in the military in modern times, yet lately in comics it seems like a lot of officers and SHIELD agents and the like keep referring to him as "Captain Rogers". Where did this come from? He's not really a captain, right? Captain America's a codename, or so I thought. 
<<<

I seem to recall that he was given an honorary promotion at some point in his career, but my Cap history is a bit dodgy and I can't recall any specifics.

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 05:11 pm    
By Ant-Man

SKleefeld wrote: 
>>>
we've already got in the MCP as "DR" so why confuse people by switching it to "DOCTOR"? 
<<<

The point is not to confuse, but to clarify. 
If it's true that more people would be confused than helped by changing them, then by all means leave them as they are. 

This was nothing more than an opinion/suggestion on my part. 

What about moving them to the DO section from the DR's?
_________________
-Brian Cook-

Last edited by Ant-Man on 14 Sep 2004 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 07:18 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

For what it's worth, Marvel itself has alphabetized all these characters under "DOCTOR" and "MISTER" in the first few editions of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. In the Deluxe edition, however, a few of the Doctors did slip by as "DR." I never saw this as a big deal for the MCP, but the spelled-out versions are my preference.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 07:56 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Mine as well. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 09:08 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

I'm on board with using "Doctor", but reluctant to go with "Mister", unless it's used that way by Marvel (for instance, Mister Hyde). For what it's worth, Marvel refers to Reed Richards as Mr. Fantastic on their website. 


watching: degrassi unscripted

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 09:16 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Well, all I can say in reply is to reiterate the Handbooks' treatment, in which characters are alphabetized. The "Misters" are, without exception (unlike the "Docs"), spelled out in all the editions.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 10:44 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

In theory, how would you go about listing a "Mrs." _somethingorother_? And it could be argued that Marvel's website resource serves as an Official Handbook, without the cost associated with publishing a hard copy that's often outdated before it even reaches the streets. 


watching: miami v. florida state

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 10:59 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Ant-Man wrote: 
>>>
What about moving them to the DO section from the DR's? 
<<<


Eh. That doesn't really float my boat. My dictionary doesn't list "Dr." in the middle of the DO's, and other reference sites that I've checked, such as the Internet Movie Database, list Dr.'s in the DR's, not the DO's. But as I've said elsewhere, I'm willing to entertain the notion of renaming them to Doctors. Marvel's web site lists Doctor Doom and Doctor Octopus. 


watching: fox 6 news

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 11:05 pm    
By Ant-Man

Renaming the characters "Doctor" would take care of the alphabetical placement without shuffling the DR.'s out of place, so that would take care of itself
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 11 Sep 2004 12:01 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
In theory, how would you go about listing a "Mrs." _somethingorother_?  
<<<


In theory, you'd list "Missus..." In practice, it's not an issue, as no one has had a codename that begins with the word...yet.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 12:46 am    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
In theory, you'd list "Missus..." In practice, it's not an issue, as no one has had a codename that begins with the word...yet. 
<<<

Wait...what about Mrs. Marvel? Wasn't that Carol Danvers first codename?
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 12:56 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

"Ms. Marvel". Liberated woman of the 70's! 

And no, I don't think it was ever ever written "Miz Marvel", so we should probably keep it with the MS's. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 08:50 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
And no, I don't think it was ever ever written "Miz Marvel", so we should probably keep it with the MS's.  
<<<


Right. The Handbooks use "Ms.", and let's face it, "Ms." only exists as an "abbreviated" term; there is no real, spelled-out word to use. "Miz" is just a spelling of the way "Ms." is pronounced.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 01:08 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Okay, so is "Mrs." a purely abbreviated term as well? Is "Missus" a real word, or just a spelling of the way we pronounce "Mrs."? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 01:15 pm    
By Ant-Man

Yes, "Missus" is a real word (a variation of "mistress")
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Thread 20

Posted: 12 Sep 2004 06:02 pm    Post subject: Tigra: Marvel Preview #21
By Ant-Man

Marvel Preview #21 is listed in Tigra's chronology (during the time that she was using the "Cat" identity. 
I didn't see her in that issue, but the 2nd story has the Cat that works with the Shroud. 
Is this issue listed incorrectly?
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Thread 21

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 08:53 am    Post subject: KA-ZAR & ZABU
By RLG

Once again I'm treading in unfamiliar waters. In SVT 5 (July 1974), there is a Ka-Zar/Zabu story, but I cannot find it referenced in the MCP. I will be more than happy to post an issue analysis, but wanted make sure that there was not a reason for its omission. 

In the story, there is a group of Savage Land inhabitants that Ka-Zar refers to as "his people." They have long hair and live in ground level huts. Since I am far from being the Savage Land expert, and since I have a feeling that I will be posting an issue analysis, does anyone know which race/tribe has been described? It been my understanding that the group that Ka-Zar usually hangs with are the Fall People, who generally have mohawks. 

- RLG

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 08:56 am    
By Ant-Man

Isn't that story "The Legend of the Lizard Men" reprinted from ASTONISHING TALES #9 ?

_________________
-Brian Cook-


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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 12:27 pm    
By RLG

You are correct Ant-Man - Thank you! 

However, the villain in the story - IRANDA - has no listing in the MCP. Unless she is listed under another name, I propose to add her to the MCP with AT 9 as her first (and only?) appearance. 

One of the tribeswomen - LOWANI - is also named in the story. She also does not have a listing in MCP (unless under another name.) However, she plays only a small part in the story, like for example, when two NYPD officers are trying to arrest Spidey, one might say, "I'm trying to shoot him 'Charlie', but he moves too fast!" Well 'Charlie' doesn't get a MCP listing, so I'm not sure LOWANI would qualify either. (Sorry, Savage Land girl.) 

- RLG

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 01:05 pm    
By Ant-Man

Most of the characters from the Savage Land tribes that have been named only have one name (no surname). 
The best examples being Tongah and Nereel of the Fall People. 
Therefore, I would think that Lowani has as much place in the MCP as any other Savage Land inhabitant. 

It's been a while since I read those issues. I was trying to remember which race that tribe was from. Are there any distinguishing physical characteristics of the tribespeople? 
They might have been members of the Sun People, but I can't be sure.
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 03:14 pm    
By RLG

The tribe in question generally looked like the stereo-typical cave man, with long hair and some of the men having facial hair. The lived in ground level huts. In the story, the men left on a hunt, leaving an elderly blind male behind with the women. They wore animal skins for clothing. Other than that, I did not see anything distinctive about them. 

- RLG

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 03:45 pm    
By Ant-Man

Sounds like the Man-Apes (they were the most "caveman-like" of the Savage Land races), but I don't think that Ka-Zar would be hanging out with them. He killed all of the members of the last Man-Ape tribe, except for Maa-Gor, their leader.
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Thread 22

Posted: 11 Sep 2004 05:17 pm    Post subject: Fury 1
By Dhall

I have a question. It seems like some of the fb's contained in Fury 1 are in the MCP, and some are not. Now doubtless, part of that reason is that some fb's are new, and some are not. 

The one I noticed that isn't in there is a Wolverine flashback, where Logan and Colonel Rick Stoner recover the original Guardian armor, which has been stolen from AM/Can by Hydra agents. 

Since Fury 1-FB does appear in certain listings, (Forge's for example) I'm going to assume that it is canon. Since it was published in 1994, perhaps it falls into the gap, but it seems like this issue has been partially indexed. I'm not that big of a SHIELD collector, so I'm not the guy to put this into analysis. 

I just want to point all of this out, in the hopes that someone else will take a look at this. 

Dave H

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 11:47 am
By John Simons

It's funny you should mention it, because I've been doing just that over the past week. Unfortunately because the one-shot spans Fury's entire career (and Tony Stark's, actually) it is taking a little while for me to reread all my Fury-related comics to figure out what scenes go where. Hopefully I can post it sometime later in the week.

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 05:27 pm    Post subject: Fury#1-problem scenes
By Enda80

The first few pages take place in Cherbeaux in 1944, with Fury battling Strucker, pace Sgt. Fury#28-29. 

--Key marker; Sgt Fury#28-29 

Soon after, Fury goes to see Sam Sawyer and meets up with Rick Stoner. 
We see Jake Fury reading a newspaper article about how the President pardoned Fury for striking Stoner. 

Next, Adolf Hitler goes to meet Arnim Zola and the Red Skull. Zola tells the Skull to take a potion to use for future use for suspended animation. Zola confers with Hitler about the cloned body they have created in the event of the latter's death. 

Problem; contradicts SVTU#17-FB, as Zola here is in his headless, ESP box body, while SVTU#17-FB showed Zola still had his original body as late as 1945. Then again, the SVTU#17-FB was narrated by the Hate-Monger, who is as dishonest as the god he serves. So, we can chalk up the problem to his faulty memories. 

Anyway, Yahweh's servant leaves and Baron Strucker sneaks in. He talks to the Skull and Zola. Note that in dialogue, Strucker states that the Red Skull was forming Hydra in Japan. He offers to go to Japan for the Skull to help start up Hydra (Strucker is not on speaking terms with Hitler, due to the events of Sgt. Fury#28-29). 

We see Strucker leading Hydra on a bunch of raids to steal weapons. Then we see him kill the original Supreme Hydra (who was Japanese). This would have to take place before Strucker's Captain Savage appearances. 

--Marker; Struckers' Appearances in Captain Savage#2-4 and Marvel Universe#1. 

We next see (a few decades later) Stark in his Iron Man (gold) costume, and he defeats some theives. Must take place after TOS#40 but before TOS#48. He pops by to speak with Jake Fury, working on an experiment. 

--Marker; TOS#40 and TOS#48 

Stark speaks to a few officials about seting up SHIELD, is shot down. Then Hydra Agents steal Jim Hudson's Guardian armor (Hydra's "North America Debut"). 

Rick Stoner and Logan (Wolverine) get called in to recover it. 
SHIELD is set up, with funding from Cordco, Williams Industries, Roxxon, et al. 

Stoner leads a raid on Hydra, and then we see Reed Richards and Forge working on the Heli-Carrier. 

Later, Stoner bungles a raid on Hydra at which Jake Fury is present. The dying Stoner makes his way to Tony Stark and a woman named Cassandra. 

We cut to Japan. Arnim Zola and Strucker are conferring. Zola discusses their creation of the Deltite and an "alien queen". Zola mentions that he has devised a way to ensure the survival of Strucker as he did the Skull and Hitler. 

Stark watches the maiden flight of the Helicarrier....but it blows up. Contemporarneously, Fury is helping the FF fight the Hate-Monger in San Gusto (pace FF I#21). Yahweh's servant gets himself killed, the FF fly Fury back to Washington DC. Fury then meets with Stark. 

--Marker FF I#21 

Then, Jake Fury is seen talking to Strucker in a video conference call. Just after the call ends, Fury walks in on Jake. Later Nick engages Jake in a fight. He presents evidence to Stark that Jake was a traitor. 

Fury a few months later receives a call (while relaxing with Laura Brown...problem as Fury did not meet Laura Brown until much later in his career, and this Laura Brown has brown hair) that his LMD is ready. Fury goes to the Helicarrier for the first SHIELD story (pace ST I#135). 

Marker: Strange Tales I#135 

We move on to the years.....Fury mentions how the Deltites tried to have SHIELD buy Stark's company by using an LMD of Nick Fury. This is a reference to a storyline that ran in Iron Man#117 and around Captain America#247. This could mean that the Fury in that Cap issue was a fake. 

We find out that Baron Strucker was behind the Deltite affair (we see him conferring with them over a view screen....this may be a problem as most accounts state that the Red Skull resurrected Strucker after the Deltite affair). 

Fury mentions that the first move he mad when he returned to SHIELD (after Nick Fury vs. SHIELD) was to turn a Deltite over to Stark to examine. After a few months, Stark discovers that the LMD has a chip with a message from Strucker. The message states that Strucker was behind the Deltites, and that the story about the aliens supplying technology to Hydra and SHIELD was a lie. Fury and Stark agree to set up a special hotline for Fury to call Stark on. 

This one-shot was criticized for nullifying the late 1980's/early 1990's SHIELD stories. 

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_terror/hydra/origin.jpg 
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/7160/byrd.html ideas on how Wolverine's appearance might fit in. 


BARON STRUCKER/WOLFGANG VON STRUCKER 
................. 
SGTF 14 
SGTF 28 
SGTF 29 
**FURY 1-FB 
CS 2-FB 
CS 2 
CS 3 
CS 4 

................. 
DD 295-FB 
UTSM -1 
UTSM -1/2 
**Fury 1-FB 
ST 150 
ST 151 
ST 152 
ST 153 

HITLER, ADOLF 
............ 
INV 32 
INV 33 
**FURY 1-FB 
SVTU 17-FB 
............................ 

RED SKULL II/JOHANN SCHMIDT 
CA 219-FB 
CA '01-FB 
**FURY 1-FB 
M/U 1 
CA@ 9/2-FB 
................... 
A little hazy on this placement. Still, it should precede M/U 1, where Strucker already runs Hydra. 

SAWYER, GENERAL SAMUEL 
SGTF 1 
SGTF 2 
SGTF 5 
INV 40 
SGTF 36 
M/CP 77/4 
SGTF 70 
SGTF 74 
**FURY 1-FB 
M/FAN 10 
CA 273 
CA 274 

I am not sure about this one; I know that MCP 77/4 takes place in 1942. When does SGT 74 take place? Or M/FAN 10? 

SUPREME HYDRA 
**FURY 1-FB 

ZOLA, ARNIM 
XF@ 3/3-FB 
**FURY 1-FB 
SVTU 17-FB 
**FURY 1-FB 
{CA 208} 
CA 209 
.................... 

For Tony Stark's appearance....anyone have the Marvel Saga issue that recaps the first published Hate-Monger story? That might give us an idea how to place this, because Marvel Saga on the backpage gave a summary of what events were going on. The scene where the Helicarrier explodes would seem to fit in this general area (as it said to coincide with the Hate-Monger in San Gusto story), but if we had that Marvel Saga it could help nail things down further. 
............... 
TOS 50 
IM 78-FB 
TOS 50 
TOS 51 
A 4 
CA:SL2 5 
CA:SL2 6 
SENTRY 1-FB 
FF 25 
FF 26

Last edited by Enda80 on 13 Sep 2004 11:27 am; edited 5 times in total

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 11:42 pm    
By John Simons

I've read this post 3 times and I still can't see the point of it. 

Since I just finished saying that I was working on an issue analysis of this book, it seems more than a little redundant of you to type up a blow-by-blow description of the plot. And since you don't list the characters that appear or explain their before-and-after appearences, its usefulness to the MCP is questionable. 

If you are explaining the plot to me, thanks but the comic itself is pretty straighforward. If you are explaining the plot to the board, why? Couldn't you infer that I would include such information in my analysis? 

As to the part about Arnim Zola, it's a good point, but one you already made in a different thread and one I had already planned to address in my analysis.

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 08:25 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

...I feel your pain... 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 04:47 pm    
By Dhall

Great, anybody knows where the Wolverine fb goes? 

<grin> 

Dave H

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 05:11 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Enda/Scathach/John McD: 

DO NOT edit posts of yours that have already been replied to. 

I've seen you do this a few times before. If you have new information to add, add it IN A NEW POST at the end of the thread. 

Why? Because nobody in their right mind is going to think to look in your old posts for new information. They've read them already; they're going to skim past them and look at the posts they HAVEN'T read. Your new info is going to go unnoticed -- and that's the opposite of helpful. 

Also, it's rude to the folks you're conversing with. John Simons pointed out that you didn't include before and after listings for the characters ... so you went back and retroactively added them to the post? For folks reading the thread for the first time, it makes John S. look stupid, like he overlooked something that was there all along. 

I'm not even going to get into John S.'s point about how, less than six hours after he said he'd post a write-up for the issue, you go ahead and do the same thing... 

It's okay to go back and fix spelling or grammar errors -- but please, don't go back and alter the content or factual information. Add or correct it in a NEW POST. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 07:35 pm    Post subject: Tony Stark appearance
By Enda80

I apologzie for the indiscretions. 

Anyway, we could fit in the fB with the sabotaged maiden voyage of the Helicarrier, since Fury says it took place around the time of FF I#21. 


Marvel Saga#11 is the issue that summarizes the first Hate-Monger story. I do not have that issue. But I do have #10 and #12. 

Anyway, #10 leaves off at TOS#44 in the Continuity Corner in the inside back cover, while #12 picks up with his first battle with the Mandarin, but note that Avengers#3 takes place before then. So the FF's first battle with the Hate-Monger took place somewhere in between TOS#44 and Avengers#3. 

In FF Index#2, Olshevsky states that the FF I#21 is followed by Strange Tales#116, in which they face the Puppet Master. Avengers Index#1 notes that their appearance in that ST#116 is follwed by their appearance in Avengers#3. 

The back page of Avengers Index#1 (1987) places the intervening adventures as late October to November. 

Let us see what happens to Iron Man in between these tales; 

AOI-FB 
A 1 
A 280-FB 
A 1.5 
AOI-FB 
IM:IA 1 
TOS 45 
IM:IA 2 
TOS 45 
TOS 46 
TOS 46-FB 
TOS 46 
M/CP 58/4 
TOS 47 
IM:IA 2 
TOS 47 
A 2 
A 267 
A 268 
A 2 
TOS 48 
IM:IA 2 
TOS 49 
UTSM 3 
A 3 

That is a pretty full schedule.

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 08:43 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Thanks, Enda80. I've also seen people edit posts after a reply has pointed out an error, and they've posted a reply themselves, noting that they've edited their original post. That's acceptable too, especially if the original post was long and complicated. 

The Posting Board software does alert readers that the post has been edited, but as alerts go, it's pretty weak, so making it a little more obvious will help. 


watching: true lies

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 09:30 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
The Posting Board software does alert readers that the post has been edited 
<<<

Actually, sometimes it doesn't. I've edited a few of my own posts -- sometimes days after they were posted -- and the "this post has been edited" footnote only appears some of the time. Odd... 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 09:36 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

I think it only appears if the post was edited *after* a reply was made, regardless of the length of time since the post. 


watching: true lies

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 10:02 am    
By John Simons

Dhall wrote: 
Great, anybody knows where the Wolverine fb goes? 
 


Well, again, something I was planning on covering (grumble, mutter)... 

Wolverine's appearence takes place early in the "Marvel Age", as Iron Man is active in his original gold armor, and Jamie Hudson has just walked away from Am/Can (shown in AF 2/ 2). Logan doesn't have his adamantium yet, so it is prior to the Weapon X stories in M/CP. 

Looking at Wolvie's chronology I see that the only appearence currently listed between UTSM -1 (which takes place about 14 years before the Marvel Age) and M/CP 72 is UX 147-FB, in which he already knows Jamie and Heather Hudson. So I think this FB must fall between UTSM -1 and UX 147-FB 

...HOWEVER... 

I did notice a couple of seeming inconsistencies between Wolverine's and Guardian's chronologies. Now, I'm not a big X-guy and I don't have W2 -1, but in Hudson's chronology W2 -1 appears 4 comics before his scene with Wolverine in UX 147- FB. But in Wolverine's chronology W2 -1 is listed about 20 comics after UX 147- FB Does this seem right? 

Also AF 3/ 2 has a one-panel scene of Wolverine in a hospital gown, popping his claws as a demonstration for Hudson. I don't see this in Wolverine's chronology currently, unless of course it is just a short snippet of a longer scene which is included...

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 10:10 am    
By Dhall

Hmmn....sounds like Wolverine's listings need to be revised (not a surprise.) 

By the way, I have been warned before for things like assuming that Wolverine doesn't have admantium claws, just because they were not used/shown in that issue. Not an assumption we can make. 

By the way, regardless of what is going on in the MCP listing, Logan did not meet the Hudsons, until after the Weapon X project MCP story. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 10:45 am    
By John Simons

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
By the way, I have been warned before for things like assuming that Wolverine doesn't have admantium claws, just because they were not used/shown in that issue. Not an assumption we can make. 
<<<

Understood, but I took into factor a few other things, like the fact that the FB takes place right after Hudson leaves Am/Can, so Logan and Hudson have not met yet. And since, as you point out, the Hudsons met Wolverine after he got the adamantium, the FB must take place before. 

Quote: 
>>>
By the way, regardless of what is going on in the MCP listing, Logan did not meet the Hudsons, until after the Weapon X project MCP story. 
<<<

See, that's what I thought. Didn't they come across him just after he escaped Weapon X, while he was running naked and bestial through the woods? If so then UXM 147- FB definitely needs to be shifted later in Logan's listing.

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 12:38 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Dhall wrote: 
By the way, regardless of what is going on in the MCP listing, Logan did not meet the Hudsons, until after the Weapon X project MCP story. 


Careful. You're using the acronym twice in the same paragraph to mean two different things (at least, I think you are). 

Most people already know this, but in case someone is confused out there, Dave's first MCP refers to the Marvel Chronology Project, and the second refers to Marvel Comics Presents (usually labelled M/CP in these parts). 


watching: ivan

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 02:09 pm    
By Dhall

Correct. Whenever I search the MCP, I usually forget to type the / in M/CP...... 


Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 06:32 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Marvel Saga #11 gives the following order for that month's comics: 

UX 1 
ST 113 
TOS 45 
TTA 47 
JIM 97 
TOS 46 
TTA 48 
FF 19 
JIM 98 
ST 114 (Human Torch) 
ST 114 (Dr Strange) 
UX 2 
TOS 47 
TTA 49 
A 2 
FF 20 
TOS 48 
ASM 7 
ST 115 
FF 21 
TTA 50 
TTA 51 
ST 116 (Human Torch) 
TOS 49 
ST 116 (Dr Strange) 
ASM 8 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 06:43 pm    Post subject: Thanks, Sean, now Let us see
By Enda80

A snip of Iron Man's Chronology; 

A 2 
TOS 48 
IM:IA 2 
TOS 49 
UTSM 3 
A 3 

Placing that Fury fb 

TOS 48 
IM:IA 2 
**FURY 1-FB 
TOS 49 

It coud go before or after IA 2, actually.

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 09:37 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

My research of this is by no means exhaustive and my chronological placement only tentative, with no double-checking of the MCP, but here are my notes of the flashback scenes in FURY #1, with character listings. Maybe this will help, although I'm in no position at this point to debate specifics. Take this for what it's worth...  

FURY #1 (flashback: pages 13-16) 
(one night and next day; must occur after TOS 40; full moon; not long before Fury 1 FB pg. 17-24) 
Iron Man [last in TOS 40] 
Higgins 
Scorpio (as Jake Fury) 

FURY #1 (flashback: pages 17-24) 
(probably a span of a few days; not long after Fury 1 FB pg. 13-16 end; after Hudson left his first Guardian armor behind; full moon; green grass and trees in Canada) 
Rick Stoner 
Wolverine (as Logan) [between W2 -1 and AF2 1-FB] 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark) [next in TOS 41] 
Pierre Trudeau [next in Alpha Flight Special 1] 
Hydra [last in X-Men Forever 4-FB] 

FURY #1 (flashback: page 25) 
(probably a span of several months that would be required to recruit and train Shields first fighting force) 
Rick Stoner 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark) [between Iron Man: Iron Age 1 and TOS 42] 

FURY #1 (flashback: page 26, panels 1-3) 
(one day) 
Rick Stoner 
Felder 
Dum Dum Dugan (BTS) [next in FF@ 3] 
Gabe Jones (BTS) [next in FF@ 3] 
Eric Koenig (BTS) [next in CA 145] 

FURY #1 (flashback: page 26, panels 4-6) 
(one day; shortly before Fury 1 FB pg. 27-28; 
Rick Stoner 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark) [last in TOS 44] 

FURY #1 (flashback: pages 27-28) 
(one day; shortly after Fury 1 FB pg. 26, pn. 4-6 and not long before Fury 1 FB pg. 29-39; perhaps summer) 
Rick Stoner 
Nelson 
Hydra 

FURY #1 (flashback: page 29-page 39, panel 2) 
(probably a span of a few days; not long after Fury 1 FB pg. 27-28; full moon; warm, bathing-suit weather in New York; one day is a Monday since mention is made of the Sullivan show being on last night; probably the summer between TOS 44 and A 1; 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark) [next in A 1] 
Mr. Fantastic [between ST 112 and FF@ 1] 
Forge [next in UX 262-FB] 
Rick Stoner 
Cassandra 
Creator [next in Nick Fury vs. Shield 6-FB] 
Deltite 
Scorpio (as Jake Fury) 
Arnim Zola [next in CA 208] 
Baron Von Strucker 
Hydra 

FURY #1 (flashback: page 39, panel 3-page 41, panel 2) 
(one day; must be November) 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark) [last in Iron Man: Iron Age 2] 

FURY #1 (flashback: pages 43-53) 
(same day as FF 21 and probably a span of a few days afterward; a few months before ST 135; full moon; must be November) 
Nick Fury [between FF 21 and ST 135] 
Mr. Fantastic [between FF 21 and ST 116] 
Invisible Woman (Girl) [between FF 21 and ST 116] 
Thing [between FF 21 and ST 116] 
Human Torch II [between FF 21 and ST 116] 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark) [next in TOS 49] 
Scorpio (as Jake Fury) [next in Nick Fury Agent of Shield #1] 
Baron Von Strucker [next in ST 150] 
Hydra [next in ST 135]
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 06:45 pm    
bY SeanCurtin

Is "Cassandra" Cassandra Romulus? 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 09:55 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Cassandra is a blonde girlfriend of Tony Stark's. Does that help?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 23

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 01:06 am    Post subject: Colossus/ Piotr Rasputin, character numbering
By AaronRStanley

Hi all, 

long been a fan of this site, and got to say, alot of impressive work, from everyone. I'd help, but don't think i got the mind for it. ANYHOO, on to the matter at hand 

on the Comix-Fan site, it lists Rasputin as Colossus III, and on this (far more accurate) site, it lists him as Colossus II. 
on Comix-Fan, the character bio thread has someone asking who I and II are, and the only answer is that 1 is the one Pym fought, and corresponds to the MCP. 

So, is there another pre-Rasputin Colossus?
_________________
Expand your mind

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 07:09 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Well, there IS an animated statue called "The Colossus" in H2 145. But if we count that, we'd also have to allow for another animated statue in that comic called "The Sphinx."
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 12:18 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

The Master List has three previous characters called "Colossus", none of any real significance. One was a stone statue from the second story in TALES TO ASTONISH #53. The second was an alien Vegan from TALES TO ASTONISH #58, apparently also known as Agent 7M. And the third was a character from INCREDIBLE HULK #145.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 01:14 pm    
By AaronRStanley

Aw, see, that`s where I hit the confusion. Significance or not, there was three characters before Rasputin, to use the name Colossus. So, would that not make him Colossus IV?
_________________
Expand your mind

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 02:12 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Not if you don't count the animated stone statues (numbers I and III) -- since they're not really alive to begin with. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 03:02 pm    
By Dhall

Not to be confused with Colosso, the Danger Room robot....

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 06:27 pm    
By AaronRStanley

Geez, you guys ARE accurate. and I do believe I`ll follow Jeph`s suggestion, of not counting the statues, are they were not alive to begin with. 

Thanks to everyone that helped to clarify the situation.
_________________
Expand your mind

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 09:56 pm    
By Dhall

Usually we only count creatures that are alive OR at the least sentient. I'm sure there's an exception or two somewhere, but that's usually the rule. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 24

Posted: 26 Aug 2004 08:50 am    Post subject: REQUEST: X-Watch
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Hey, folks. As most of you know, I'm an enormous X-Men fan. It's my goal (my sad, sad goal) to collect every appearance of the X-Men ever published. 

And my definition of the X-Men is pretty broad: anyone who has ever willingly served on a Xavier's-dream-based team. Meaning folks like the current crop of "New X-Men" count (the squads of students at the mansion), but folks like X-Statix don't -- they may have a team name that starts with "X", but they're not an outgrowth of Xavier's. Quicksilver counts, since he was a member of X-Factor for a time, but Sabretooth doesn't, since he was coerced into serving on X-Factor and the X-Men (UX 316-317). 

Anyway, my point is ... since I order my comics online these days and don't get to the comic shop as often as I should, I can't flip through each week's releases and spot unsolicited X-Men cameos. So I'd like to set up some kind of MCP flagging system -- where folks alert me to cameos or appearances of the X-Men in titles where they don't normally appear, or weren't solicited to appear. 

For instance ... I know the X-Men are solicited to show up in Millar's Spider-Man #6 ... but do they show up on the last page of #5? Will they show up on the first page of #7? 

Daredevil v2 #65 is supposed to have many cameos ... will any X-Men be among them? 

Will Quicksilver or the Beast wander through any of the "Avengers Disassembled" satellite books like Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Cap/Falc or Fantastic Four? 

Do any X-Men alumni show up randomly in the background of any issues of, say, "the Pulse" or "Avengers/Thunderbolts"? 

That sort of thing. I need eyes. I need spotters. Can anyone help? 

If anyone has seen any X-types in any non-X-books in the last, oh, six months or so ... please post, and let me know. And from now on, if anyone spots 'em, please flag it up. 

That way (and here's where I bring it on-topic), I can buy the books, chronologize the appearances, and better contribute to the MCP... 

---- 
CHARACTERS I CONSIDER "X-MEN": 
Meaning, members of Xavier-based teams: X-Men, New Mutants, Excalibur, X-Factor, X-Force, etc. 

Angel III / Archangel 
Banshee 
Beast 
Bishop 
Cable 
Caliban 
Cannonball II 
Captain Britain 
Cerise II 
Chamber 
Changeling 
Colossus II 
Cyclops II 
Cypher 
Dazzler II 
Domino II 
Feral 
Forge 
Gambit 
Havok 
Husk 
Iceman 
Jesse Bedlam 
Joseph 
Jubilee 
Juggernaut 
Karma 
Kylun 
Lockheed 
Longshot 
M II / Penance (Monet St. Croix) 
Maggott (plus Eanie and Meanie?) 
Magik 
Magik II / Daytripper 
Magma 
Magneto 
Marrow 
Marvel Girl III / Phoenix III (Rachel Summers) 
Meggan 
Meltdown 
Mimic (616) 
Moonstar 
Multiple Man 
Mystique 
Nightcrawler 
Northstar 
Penance II / M (the St. Croix twins) 
Penance III 
Phoenix II (Phoenix Force in human form) 
Phoenix IV / Marvel Girl (Jean Grey) 
Polaris 
Professor X 
Psylocke 
Quicksilver 
Rictor 
Rogue 
Sage 
Shadowcat 
Shard II 
Shatterstar II 
Siryn 
Skin 
Storm 
Strong Guy 
Sunspot 
Synch 
Thunderbird 
Thunderbird III 
Warlock III / Douglock 
Warpath 
White Queen 
Wildchild 
Wisdom, Pete 
Wolfsbane 
Wolverine 

---- 
CHARACTERS IM UNSURE ABOUT: 
At this point I should probably keep track of all their appearances anyway, in case I ever do decide to collect them as X-Men. 

- WERE THEY X-MEN?: 
Make me an argument one way or the other. 

Archer 
Blaquesmith 
Blaquesmith II (one or the other served with Cables underground  does that count?) 
Feron 
Fixx 
Gaia 
Gateway 
Greystone 
Lifeguard 
Maverick II / Bolt (he was a student at Xavier's AND a member of Cables underground) 
Micromax 
the Phoenix Force itself (NOT in human form) 
Random II 
Red Lotus 
Revanche 
Reyes, Cecilia 
Rusty 
Skids 
Slipstream 
Stacy X 
Widget [DoFP Kate Pryde?] 

- MEMBERS OF X-CORP: 
Again  does that count as being an X-Man? Discuss. 

Darkstar 
Empath 
Risque 
Sabra 
Skitz 
Stringfellow 
Sunfire 
Thornn II 

- STUDENTS AT XAVIERS: 
I count the New Mutants as X-Men, so why not the new batch of students? Oh, right, because most of them dont fight crime in costume. But with the new NXM titles recent swing towards the students being X-Men-in-training, I may have to reconsider 

Basilisk IV 
Beak 
Dummy 
Dust 
Elixir 
Ernst (Cassandra Nova / Stuff) 
Garrett, Jeffrey 
Glob Herman 
Gloom 
Hellion 
Icarus 
Irina 
Leech 
Maddox (/Maddicks), Artie 
Mercury IV 
No-Girl / Martha Johanssen 
Prodigy IV 
Quill II 
Quire, Quentin 
Redneck 
Rockslide 
Rubbermaid 
Salvadore, Angel (and her babies) 
Silicon II 
Slick II 
Specter 
Stepford Cuckoos v.01-05 (Esme, Sophie, Phoebe, Celeste, Mindee) 
Surge III 
Tag 
Tantra 
Tattoo 
Victor (student, Alpha squadron) 
Wallflower 
Wind Dancer 
Wing II 
Wither 
(Asian student with TK body armor, Astonishing v3 #4) 

---- 
DELIBERATELY UNLISTED: 
I do NOT consider these characters X-Men, and dont go out of my way to collect all their appearances. This list is by no means complete  there are millions of supporting X-characters I dont bother with  but this is a list of the supporting characters commonly placed under the umbrella of collect them all! by most X-fans. 

This section continues down to "villains"  and bear in mind, everyone below is someone I'm *not* interested in tracking. 

- FRIENDS, ALLIES AND ASSOCIATES: 
Adam X (X-Treme?) 
Amiko 
Blink (616) 
Campbell, Rory (/Ahab II?) 
Captain Britain III (Kelsey Leigh) 
Cheney, Lila 
Cooper, Valerie 
Corsi, Tom 
Deadpool 
Duncan, Fred 
Friedlander, Sharon 
Ghazikhanian, Annie 
Ghazikhanian, Carter 
Goblin Queen 
Harry (of Harrys Hideaway) 
Hunter, Stevie 
Jones, Charlotte 
MacTaggert, Moira 
Mondo 
Silver Samurai 
Stuart, Alistaire 
Stuart, Alysande 
Tanaka, Opal 
Tilby, Trish 
Warbird 
Weapon X II (Garrison Kane) 
Weapon Zero / Maverick 
Wiz Kid 
X-23 
Xorn II 
Yashida, Mariko 
Yukio 

and other X-girlfriends, like Lee Forrester and so on. Also the X-Mens families: the Guthrie clan, the Summers grandparents, Karmas siblings, etc. 

(I dunno, though, man. If Im counting the students, should I count Tom and Annie, a teacher and the school nurse?) 

- INTERIM X-MEN: 
The Muir Island group, the emergency teams formed when the X-Men were missing or disbanded, etc. 

Frenzy 
Grey, Nate (X-Man) 
Legion II 
Provenzano, Paulie 
Sabretooth 
Sunder 
Sunpyre 
Wraith 

- IMPERSONATORS: 
People who have served on the team under false pretenses. 

Copycat 
Dark Beast 
"Mondo" (Black Tom's mole) 
Onslaught II (once he was separated from Prof. X) 
Wolverine (Skrull impostor) 
Xorn / Magneto (impostor) 

- ALL MEMBERS OF: 

-- X-Force III / X-Statix 

-- the Exiles (and their corresponding Weapon X team) 
(excluding the Beak  and possibly Nocturne III, if she should ever join a 616 X-team.) 

-- the NYX book 

-- the members of Banshee's X-Corps not listed above 
(meaning Blob, Avalanche, and Fever Pitch.) 

-- the Starjammers 

-- the Shiar Imperial Guard / Superguardian Elite 
(including Lilandra and the rest of the Shiar supporting characters, but excluding Stuff, who is now a part of Ernst and is a student at Xaviers.) 

-- the Morlocks 
(including Callisto  for now, unless she joins Prof. Xs fledgling team in Genosha  but excluding folks like Caliban and Marrow that have become members of X-teams.) 

-- the Captain Britain Corps 
(including Merlyn and Roma, but excluding CB himself, of course.) 

-- Cadre K 
(I probably should count these, as theyre basically a Skrull-based, Xavier-led version of the X-Men  but for now I dont.) 

-- the original Hellions 
(excluding the White Queen  and also Thunderbird II, who as Warpath joined X-Force and X-Corp. Possibly also excluding Empath.) 

-- the All-New Exiles 
(Juggernauts Malibu-universe team  excluding Juggy himself, of course.) 

-- the Daydreamers 
(with the possible exceptions of Artie and Leech.) 

- VILLAINS: 
Of course, I dont collect every appearance of X-villains, either  even big ones like Apocalypse or Mr. Sinister. Magneto, Mystique and the Juggernaut are the notable exceptions, though, since each has served on an X-team in relatively good standing. (Sabretooth deserves another mention here  even though he served on X-Factor and an interim X-team, in each case he was forced into it, and escaped as soon as the opportunity came by  whereas Mystique, also forced into X-Factor, was eventually and grudgingly loyal.) 


So, did I miss anyone? 

No, seriously, did I? 

-Jeph!

Last edited by jephyork on 17 Sep 2004 03:54 pm; edited 10 times in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Aug 2004 10:07 am    Post subject: Hey Maybe I Can Help!
By Jason Doty

I've been collecting everything that has to do with X-Men since I was 10, so for about 22 years. I hit the comic store every week and go through every marvel book, looking for those obscure appearances. If you want heres a list of what I plan to pick up, and I can update it every Wendsday against what I do. 

I'll start with May '04 (What I picked up) 
Alpha Flight no.3 
Astonishing X-Men no.1 
Cable/Deadpool no.3 
Emma Frost no.11 
Excalibur no.1 
Exiles no.46 
Exiles no.47 
District X no.1 
Marvel Knights: Spider-Man no.2 (Quicksilver) 
Mystique no.14 
Mystique no.15 
New X-Men: Academy X no.1 
Secret War: Book II (Wolverine) 
Ultimate X-Men no.45 
Ultimate X-Men no.46 
Uncanny X-Men no.444 
Weapon X no.23 
Weapon X no.24 
Wolverine no.15 
Wolverine Punisher no.3 
X-Men no.157 
X-Statix no.23 

Jun '04 
Alpha Flight no.4 
Astonishing X-Men no.2 
Cable/Deadpool no.4 
Emma Frost no.12 
Excalibur no.2 
Exiles no.48 
District X no.2 
Identity Disc no.1 (Juggernaut) 
Mystique no.16 
New X-Men: Academy X no.2 
(NYX no.5, has not come out) 
Powerless no.1 (Wolverine) 
Ultimate X-Men no.47 
Ultimate X-Men no.48 
Uncanny X-Men no.445 
Weapon X no.25 
Wolverine no.16 
Wolverine/Punisher no.4 
Wolverine: The End no.4 
X-Men no.158 
X-Men Unlimited no.3 
X-Statix no.24 

Jul '04 
Alpha Flight no.5 
Astonishing X-Men no.3 
Emma Frost no.13 
Excalibur no.3 
Exiles no.49 
Cable/Deadpool no.5 
District X no.3 
Identity Disc no.2 (Juggernaut) 
Mystique no.17 
New X-Men:Academy X no.3 
(NYX no.6, has not come out yet) 
Powerless no.2 
Rogue no.1 
Starjammers no.1 
Starjammers no.2 
Ultimate X-Men no.49 
Uncanny X-Men no.446 
Weapon X no.26 
Wolverine no.17 
Wolverine/Punisher no.5 
X-Men no.159 
X-Statix no.25 

Aug '04 (with * not out yet) 
Alpha Flight no.6 
Astonishing X-Men no.4 
*Avengers no.501 
Cable/Deadpool no.6 
District X no.4 
Emma Frost no.14 
Excalibur no.4 
Exiles no.50 
Exiles no.51 
Identity Disc no.3 (Juggernaut) 
Mystique no.18 
New X-Men: Academy X no.4 
Powerless no.3 
Rogue no.2 
*Secret War Book III 
Starjammers no.3 
Ultimate Nightmare no.1 
Ultimate X-Men no.50 
Uncanny X-Men no.447 
Weapon X no.27 
Wolverine no.18 
*Wolverine:The End no.5 
X-Force no.1 
X-Men no.160 
X-Statix no.26 
X-Men Unlimited no.4 
X-Men: The End Book I no.1 
X-Men: The End Book I no.2 

I'll give you an update, at the end of the month

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Aug 2004 10:55 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Hi, Jason. Yeah, it does sound like you can help! 

You really go through EVERY Marvel book every week -- even the fringe ones like "Guardians", "Runaways", "She-Hulk", and so on? 

Thanks for the list -- I see you caught that Quicksilver appearance in Spider-Man #2. Good eye! He's one of my wild cards -- I'm always worried that he's going to appear as part of an Avengers group shot in one panel of "Amazing Spider-Man" or "Black Widow" or something, and I'm going to miss it. 

For the purposes of my request, there's no need to list the core X-books here -- I *know for a fact* that the X-Men will appear in them, so I don't even bother to look -- I just stick 'em on my wants list. 

I'm not much for non-canon stuff, either, so I don't collect the Ultimate X-Men -- or the "End" specials, either, until the point was raised here that some of them have flashbacks to the canon MU. Paul O'Brien says that some (all?) of the Wolvie: the End books have flashbacks to his childhood, and X-Men: the End v1 #1 had flashbacks to Bishop and Deathbird's relationship. It's unclear to me if Claremont's flashing back to circa UX #358, and trying to tell us that they slept together then and that Deathbird is *currently*, in the real MU, pregnant with Bishop's child -- or if he's flashing back to a REAL relationship that the two began (will begin) sometime still in the future... 

In any case, letting me know if any of the End books have possibly-canon FBs would be great. 

I notice you have Alpha Flight on the list -- now, granted, Northstar is currently an X-Men member, but the current Alpha run hasn't had any X-appearances at all. Do you also collect all things Alpha? If so, great!, because so do I, and this would save me having to post a "Request: Alpha Watch" thread. If you've seen the solicits for the upcoming "Sabretooth" series, you'll know that Sasquatch guest-stars in either #1 or #2 (or both), and definitely #3. I won't be buying this series because Sabe's in it -- remember, I don't count him as an X-Man -- but I *will* be buying it because Sasquatch is in it. Heh. Just like I bought his "Back to Nature" one-shot because Wild Child was in it. 

I see you have Avengers #501 on your list -- preview images show Quicksilver (barely) in one panel -- but are you keeping an eye out for him to pop up in, say, "Cap/Falc" or "Iron Man" as well? 

And now that Bendis is writing Wolverine in both "Secret War" and "New Avengers", are you watching all the other Bendis books to see if he pops up there? Like I said, DD2 #65 is said to have "lots of guest-stars", and he's on the cover of "the Pulse" #6... 

And by the way -- have any X-Men (you know what I mean, "real" X-Men)shown up in recent issues of X-Statix? Did any cameo in this week's #26? 

Thanks, Jason.  

-Jeph!

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 02:52 pm    Post subject: Yes the X-Men are in X-Statix no.26
By Jason Doty

Several X-Men appear in the X-Statix farewell party, flashback. I see Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Cyclops, as well as other heroes Dr. Strange, Giant Man, Namor, Scarlet Witch, Tony Stark, Nick Fury, Black Panther, Human Torch, Thing, Matt Murdock, Silver Surfer, Hawkeye, Vision, Black Widow, Captain America, Thor, Black Bolt, Crystal, and Elektra.

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 04:15 pm    Post subject: X-Statix farewell party
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Several X-Men appear in the X-Statix farewell party, flashback. I see Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Cyclops, as well as other heroes Dr. Strange, Giant Man, Namor, Scarlet Witch, Tony Stark, Nick Fury, Black Panther, Human Torch, Thing, Matt Murdock, Silver Surfer, Hawkeye, Vision, Black Widow, Captain America, Thor, Black Bolt, Crystal, and Elektra. 
<<<


I was going to start a new thread about this topic, but I'll just pick up from here. 

There are discrepencies in how a number of heroes at the X-Statix farewell party are dressed: Giant-Man appears in the costume he wore in A 2-14; Cyclops appears in his original costume from UX 1-38; Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman are also in their classic '60s threads. These *could* be guests dressed up like the heroes, but Reed Richards' left arm is stretched out and Giant-Man is a lot taller than everyone else. So what gives here? Regular folks having fun with image inducers? Is there really a reason for all these heroes to show up at a party for such disreputable glory-hounds as X-Statix? 

BTW, we also see a red-headed woman from the back with a bare right arm. I'd hesitate to say that this is Jean Grey; perhaps it's Mary Jane Watson-Parker. It's probably inconclusive.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 04:46 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Hey, Jeph. 

Does anyone who was a team member of the original Excalibur count? We had Captain Britain and Meggan in A3 79-81. 

I assume that Scarlet Witch, Warbird, and Starjammers do not count. 

You're lucky insofar as the last six months have not seen many appearances by X-Men in non-X titles. That Quicksilver appearance in S-M2 2 and the aforementioned scene in XS 26 were the only ones I could come up with. 

You are not checking X-Statix, and I assume that you've noted the appearances of X-Men in earlier issues of that series. We had Xavier in issues #6, 7, 8, 13, and 14. Logan was in issue #11. 

Are Mystique and Weapon X included in your list of "core" X-titles?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 05:00 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Excalibur members are sort of tricky -- yes, I definitely count the original members, but folks like Feron and Micromax -- were they ever actually team members? 

Thanks for the tip-off about A3 #79-81 -- and there's another example of a character I don't follow, Captain Britain II (or III, I suppose -- Kelsey). She may be the heir to the powers of an X-character, but she's no X-Man. 

And you're right, I don't count Scarlet Witch, Warbird and the Starjammers. Heck, I don't even count Sunfire, as he never officially joined the team -- he agreed to help Xavier once in GSXM #1, but when membership was offered in UX #94 he took off in a huff. 

You listed Xavier as appearing in X-Statix #14 ... I don't see him. I do see him in #19, though ... is that what you meant? 

Mystique IS included in my list of titles -- it seems to me that her X-Factor membership was a bit more genuine than Sabretooth's -- but Weapon X is not. Issues #14 and 26, for example, contain no actual X-Men (haven't read #27 yet, it might not either) ... and before Cable and Wolverine trotted through every issue, the only actual "X-Men member" regularly featured was Wild Child. 

Thanks to both Paul and Jason for helping me out with this... 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 07:21 pm    
By ShadZ

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
X-Men: the End v1 #1 had flashbacks to Bishop and Deathbird's relationship. It's unclear to me if Claremont's flashing back to circa UX #358, and trying to tell us that they slept together then and that Deathbird is *currently*, in the real MU, pregnant with Bishop's child -- or if he's flashing back to a REAL relationship that the two began (will begin) sometime still in the future... 
<<<


I doubt Deathbird is pregnant now because the Shi'ar don't get pregnant -- they lay eggs. The egg would spend some time in her body being built up before she lays it (I don't know what the term for that period is, but it is not pregnancy) but that would just be a short time. I'm sure she laid the egg by now (if she and Bishop did create a child together circa UX #358).
_________________
ShadZ

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 07:45 pm    
By Dhall

This is a great thread. I too suffer from nearly the same disease that Jeph does. I'm a compulsive obesesive X-Men collector. If it's canon, I must own it. 

Doesn't Marvel realize how many more books they could sell me, if they just let me know when a x-character makes a pointless appearance in some random comic?????? 


Dave H

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 08:31 pm
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
You listed Xavier as appearing in X-Statix #14 ... I don't see him. I do see him in #19, though ... is that what you meant?  
<<<

Yes, issue #19, not #14.  

Quote: 
>>>
Heck, I don't even count Sunfire, as he never officially joined the team -- he agreed to help Xavier once in GSXM #1, but when membership was offered in UX #94 he took off in a huff.  
<<<

Hmm. I've always considered Shiro to be an X-Man, in much the same way that all those heroes were Defenders in DEF 62-64.  

Quote: 
>>>
Weapon X is not. Issues #14 and 26, for example, contain no actual X-Men (haven't read #27 yet, it might not either) 
<<<

WX2 27 features no X-Men. 

Quote: 
>>>
folks like Feron and Micromax -- were they ever actually team members?  
<<<

I consider Cerise, Feron, and Micromax, and Lockheed too, to have been members of the "original" Excalibur, that is, the team showcased in the first EXCAL series. Black Knight, on the other hand, who was featured in EXCAL2, is not a member. 


Actually, I think that compiling an alphabetical list of "official" X-members would be useful for this exercise.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: X-Statix farewell party
By SeanCurtin

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
There are discrepencies in how a number of heroes at the X-Statix farewell party are dressed: 
<<<

Retro artist = retro costumes. Maybe X-Statix (or whoever organized the event) made a conscious decision to request everyone attend in "classic" costumes. 

-Sean

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Posted: 29 Aug 2004 02:44 pm    Post subject: X-Statix farewell party
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Okay, I'll buy that, given that sillier things have happened in the MU.  

Assuming they are the real deal... on panel 1, who is that person between Scarlet Witch's nose and Nick Fury's head? Are we seeing the back of Triton's head? 

How about the guy with white hair and a costume with a blue neck between the Panther and Stark? A "non-classic" Quicksilver? 

Who is that person between Logan and Guy Smith? 

And who IS that red-haired woman in the bottom left corner with no discernable costume? Medusa? (Please not the "deceased" Jean Grey.) 

Panel 2 has a more obscure glimpse of a guest...just to the left of Black Bolt and Crystal we see what appears to be orange hair. ??
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 29 Aug 2004 06:19 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Yeah, the costumes at the X-Statix farewell party can't provide any guide to chronology. Cyclops is in his early Silver Age costume, for example. It's either artistic licence, or the invitations asked everyone to wear their original costumes.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 05:03 am    
By PeteD

jephyork wrote: 

>>>
You really go through EVERY Marvel book every week -- even the fringe ones like "Guardians", "Runaways", "She-Hulk", and so on? 
<<<


I also go through every Marvel every week, it is my dream, or nightmare maybe, to own every Marvel Universe title. 

Nowhere near achieving it because I change my mind and sell a stack of stuff every few years then start up again, so currently I have around 6,000 out of what, 24,000???, issues, but whenever I am collecting I always buy everything that comes out.

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 12:13 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I've edited my original post to include a list of everyone I consider an "X-Man". There's a list underneath that of characters whose membership is debatable -- I'd welcome any feedback or opinions on these folks. C'mon, convince me why I should consider them X-Men and track down all their appearances. 

(Luckily, the vast majority of these characters -- especially the students at Xavier's -- pretty much ONLY appear in books that already feature "real" X-Men. So I end up collecting all their appearances by default. But that may change, and they might cameo in "Runaways v2" or something -- which, of course, is why I started this list...) 

I'd also like to start an Alpha Flight Watch, as an outgrowth of the X-Watch -- and eventually a New Warriors Watch too, but that should get its own thread.  

So anyway, if anyone sees anyone that I (gasp!) forgot -- or disagrees on how I've classified a character -- let me know! 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 02:21 pm    
By rhod

Can you clarify whether you are after appearances by the 'interim x-men' or not? Shouldn't Moira McTaggart be in this group, particularly as she formed the team on Muir Island when the regular team went missing?

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 02:45 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

No, I'm not interested in the interim X-Men. The "deliberately unlisted" section covers ALL the sub-sections listed below it, down to villains. Maybe I'll edit that to make it more obvious. 

And it doesn't really matter to me if Moira is listed in "friends" or "interim X-Men" -- either way, she's not on the list of folks I plan to collect. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 05:11 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Jeph, 

Here are characters that appear on the X-Men Membership Roster in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition, but they do not appear on your list of "official" X-Men. I know you've tried to argue against including most of these folks, but the Handbook would disagree. 

Changeling 
Sunfire 
Phoenix II (the Phoenix Force) 
Moira MacTaggert 
Tom Corsi 
Sharon Friedlander 
Legion 

I would claim that these characters belong as "X-Men" more than some of the characters you list as members of other X-teams. 

And if these count, then later "interim" X-Men should count to be consistent. 

I realize that the characters you follow are your own choice, but I just wanted to make a plug for the consideration of the above characters. (Curiously, Gateway was NOT on the list.) 

If you're considering group membership in any X-team (aside from X-Statix) to qualify as X-Men status, why not consider members of the group, the X-Terminators, most of whom (aside from Meltdown II and Rictor, who later joined X-Force) you have listed under "unsure, "students," and "associates?" 
Collins, Rusty 
Leech 
Maddicks, Artie 
Skids 
Wiz Kid (Taki Matsuya) 

But you're right, Artie's and Leech's later group, Daydreamers, is stretching things too far. 

As far as Excalibur goes, I don't see the distinction between Cerise II (listed as official) and Feron, Kylun, Micromax (listed as unsures), and Widget.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 05:56 pm    
By Dhall

Are we talking about X-groups or X-Men? There's a big difference...... 

Dave H

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 07:37 pm    Post subject: This weeks pick ups
By Jason Doty

Hey Jeph! 
This is what was out this week. 

Avengers no.501 (no x-characters, unless you count Warbird) 
Alpha Flight no.7 (last page has Storm, wrong costume and I doubt it's her) 
Exiles no.52 (Beak from 616) 

Other Titles 
Gambit no.1 
Jubilee no.1 
Starjammers no.4 
Uncanny X-Men no.448 

I'll update next week.

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Posted: 01 Sep 2004 09:02 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Alpha Flight no.7 (last page has Storm, wrong costume and I doubt it's her)  
<<<


It's a wax figure come to life, courtesy of the Manimator.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 02 Sep 2004 09:01 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Maaaan, Paul, some of us don't have the issue yet! >.< 

Jason -- I think Quicksilver appears in Avengers #501, too. See the white-haired guy, behind Silverclaw, in the two-page hero spread. 

(EDIT: whoops. He might have been in the preview image, but he was deleted from the printed comic.) 

And thanks for flagging up "Exiles", too -- I'm glad you caught that I don't normally collect that book. 

You listed Starjammers #4 ... I assume there weren't any "real" X-characters in there, though, right? 

Paul -- as for the X-Terminators ... my criteria isn't "all X-teams except X-Statix" ... it's "teams that fight for Xavier's dream". Do the X-Terminators qualify? I know they were made up of X-Factor supporting characters, but is that enough to make them a Xavier-based team? 

Oh, same goes for the Fallen Angels, I guess. Three X-Men characters and an X-villain founded the team ... does that make them a Xavier-based team? 

I mean, the Beast, Iceman and Angel were a large part of the New Defenders, but you wouldn't call THEM an X-team, right? 

Hmm. Someone else, weigh in here. 

As for the Muir Island X-Men ... I'm glad that the Official Handbook thinks that they're X-Men, but why? What did they do? They put on X-uniforms when the Reavers attacked Muir Island, sure, but that was because the unstable molecule uniforms would protect them from getting killed. Charlotte Jones wears an X-uniform to this day under her police outfit, and I don't see anyone arguing that SHE'S a team member. 

What else did the Muir Island crew even DO? They sat around the island and got taken over by the Shadow King. Whoooo. 

Am I misremembering some great X-Men adventure they had? And does the Handbook list Sunder as a member, by the way? He was present during the Reavers' attack too. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 02 Sep 2004 02:08 pm    
By SeanCurtin

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
As for the Muir Island X-Men ...  
<<<

They were never called the X-Men in dialogue or narration, only on the cover blurb and in the handbook. The team was called the "Islanders" once or twice during one of the Annual crossovers (the one where Proteus returns), but that's the only name they ever received. 

-Sean

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Posted: 02 Sep 2004 10:28 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Am I misremembering some great X-Men adventure they had? And does the Handbook list Sunder as a member, by the way? He was present during the Reavers' attack too.  
<<<

You're not, Jeph, but apparently the Handbook considered Moira's "team of alternate X-Men" to be legit. And yes, they did leave Sunder out, which I assume was an oversight. Wouldn't you consider these folks to be a team that fought for Xavier's dream? 

Quote: 
>>>
Maaaan, Paul, some of us don't have the issue yet! >.< 
<<<


Sorry...but it really isn't a spoiler. Now telling you that the identity of the father of Gwen's kids is Howard the Duck...THAT would be a spoiler. 
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 03 Sep 2004 06:32 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
What else did the Muir Island crew even DO? They sat around the island and got taken over by the Shadow King. Whoooo. 
<<<

The Muir Island X-Men fought Proteus in an Annual storyline (on the basis that SOMEBODY had to show up and represent the X-Men in the crossover). 

X-MEN INDEX also lists them as "Feature Characters", although it's a little unclear what criteria they're using during that period, since they also continue to list Storm, Wolverine and so forth - who clearly can't actually be X-Men at that point, since the team no longer exists.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 03 Sep 2004 07:13 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Yes, that's right! According to the Official Marvel Index to the X-Men, vol. 2 #5, Moira, Lorna, Legion, Madrox, and Siryn are referred to as "Feaure Characters" (the "Muir Island X-Men") in UX@ 15. The Index also states that Sharon Friedlander was a "Feature Character" in UX 254 and 258. Moira, Tom Corsi, Legion, Amanda Sefton, Alysande Stuart, and Sunder also have that distinction in UX 254-255.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 03 Sep 2004 08:51 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
the Handbook considered Moira's "team of alternate X-Men" to be legit. 
<<<

Do they also consider Sunfire a member? Sunfire, a man who grudgingly did Prof. X one favor, then *turned down* an offer of membership? 

Quote: 
>>>
Wouldn't you consider these folks to be a team that fought for Xavier's dream? 
<<<

No. They fought the Reavers, once, to keep from being killed. Where does Xavier's dream enter into that? 

As for their battle with Proteus ... if memory serves, by that point Tom, Sharon, Amanda Sefton, Banshee, Forge and Sunder were gone from that "team" -- leaving only Moira, Siryn, Polaris, Legion and the Multiple Man. Of those three, Siryn, Polaris and Madrox are *already* considered X-team members by me -- leaving only Moira and Legion to debate. 

And the thing with Moira and Legion ... they're both dead, and they both only appeared in comics that also featured other X-Men. Meaning, no matter what I decide about their "membership status", I'm going to end up collecting all their appearances by default anyway. 

In fact, the same goes for the other "Islanders" members that we're debating: Tom, Sharon and Sunder. They've never appeared outside the X-books anyway -- and Tom's the only one left alive these days, and it's not like he's going to guest-star in "Fantastic Four" next month. 

For the purposes of my personal collection -- I doubt the "membership status" of ANY of these characters matters. 

Has Moira ever appeared in a book without any other X-members? 


By the way, about the other folks Paul mentioned ... I'd buy that the Changeling's an actual X-Men member -- after all, he took Prof. X's place of his own free will. (And he actually HAS appeared outside of the X-books -- in issues of Sensational She-Hulk, no less!) 

I'd also buy that Phoenix II was a member -- but I'd like to draw a line between "Phoenix II", the time that the Phoenix Force spent in human form convinced that it was Jean Grey; and the Phoenix Force itself. 

Can a case be made that the merger of the Force and Jean Grey created an actual *new person*, a combinant entity? And that it was that combinant entity that was the member? 

I'd *like* to consider the Phoenix-in-human-form a member -- after all, it thought it was Jean when it fought alongside the team -- I'm just not sure that I want to consider the Phoenix FORCE, itself, a member. If we could classify Phoenix II as a separate entity from the Phoenix Force, that would help immensely. 

Trouble is, it really WASN'T a proper "merger" -- it was still *just* the Phoenix Force, only in a different shape, amnesiac, and with stolen memories. 

Then again, the Force bonded to Rachel of its own will, and fought with her alongside Excalibur ... argh. Hmm. Maybe it IS considerable for membership on its own. 

(Hmm. Has the Phoenix Force made any canon appearances outside the X-books? Is this a moot point, in terms of collecting?) 


What I'm thinking of doing is, for the purposes of this X-Watch, asking my spotters to flag up appearances of all the "borderline" characters anyway. This way, at least I'll have a list of where they appear, and I can debate whether or not to collect those comics until the end of time. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 03 Sep 2004 10:27 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

A couple more points: 

Quote: 
>>>
I would claim that these characters [Changeling, Phoenix II, Moira, et al.] belong as "X-Men" more than some of the characters you list as members of other X-teams. 
<<<

Hmm, like who? Which members on my list do you take issue with? 

Quote: 
>>>
And if these count, then later "interim" X-Men should count to be consistent. 
<<<

Which is why I don't want them to count.  

Quote: 
>>>
(Curiously, Gateway was NOT on the list.) 
<<<

Interestingly, he HAS appeared outside the X-books -- a Fantastic Four Annual, if memory serves. 

Quote: 
>>>
As far as Excalibur goes, I don't see the distinction between Cerise II (listed as official) and Feron, Kylun, Micromax (listed as unsures), and Widget. 
<<<

To be honest, my memory's a bit fuzzy there -- especially the issues after #42-50. I might consider Kylun a full member (as I do Cerise, for some reason), but I really remember Micromax being just an ally of the team -- swept up in events alongside them, rather than actually *joining* them. And Feron? What did he ever do for the team? He stuck around because he was after the Phoenix Force, and moped. Was he a help? Did he "join the team"? Not that I recall. 

And as for Widget ... tough call. Before it "regained" its awareness as Kate Pryde (and immediately left, if you recall), would you really call it a team "member"? I'd call it more of a mascot. 

And if I consider Widget a member, should I then consider DoFP Kate Pryde a member? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 03 Sep 2004 10:51 am    
By Dhall

While I collect them both, I wouldn't consider people who were Excalibur members to be X-Men as such (except for the ones who served on both teams.) I mean, when was Captain Britain or Meggan on the X-Men. Certainly they count as memebrs of an X-team, but that's a different distinction. 

Dave H

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Posted: 03 Sep 2004 11:03 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Agreed. I use "X-Men" in a family sense sometimes ... an umbrella term encompassing all Xavier-based teams, not just the main X-Men team. 

I might be too loose with the term in my individual posts ... but there's a reason this thread was called "X-Watch" rather than "X-Men Watch". 

Coming soon: New Warriors Watch. Oh yes. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 03 Sep 2004 07:39 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Quote: 
>>>
I would claim that these characters [Changeling, Phoenix II, Moira, et al.] belong as "X-Men" more than some of the characters you list as members of other X-teams. 
<<<

Hmm, like who? Which members on my list do you take issue with? 
<<<


All the members of X-teams who were never X-Men, as noted in subsequent posts. I'm glad to see Changeling and Phoenix Force (at least as corporeally manifest in human form) get their due. 

Quote: 
>>>
I use "X-Men" in a family sense sometimes ... an umbrella term encompassing all Xavier-based teams, not just the main X-Men team. 
<<<

Moira, Tom, Sharon, and the others aren't family?  Hey, Legion IS family. 

Anyway, the debate about "official" membership, with its ever-changing and nebulous definitions, is moot if you want us to track all the folks in your various categories. Let's have weekly updates. I'll help, although others I'm sure will beat me to the punch. 

Adding to Jason's "don't bother" list -- don't worry about Alpha Flight v3 #7 (as noted earlier), Captain America & the Falcon v2 #7, Spider-Man Unlimited v2 #5, or Thor v2 #84. Avengers #501, as you surmised, may feature a de-powered Beast.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 12:10 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
the debate about "official" membership, with its ever-changing and nebulous definitions, is moot if you want us to track all the folks in your various categories. 
<<<

Well, that's just it -- I *don't*. What I said was, let's track all the folks in my "borderline" category -- the students, the X-Corp members, and the borderline X-Men like Micromax and Random II. 

I still don't feel like tracking anyone in my "deliberately unlisted" category -- the ones we've been mainly debating. The reason I listed them is so that folks DON'T bother to update me -- and so, if any "real" X-Men guest-star in any books of theirs, I *do* get a heads-up. 

Let's take Sabretooth's upcoming miniseries as an example. I want people to know that I'm *not* tracking Sabretooth. So if Wolverine guest-stars in issue #4, I want people to understand that I'm not *normally* picking up the book for Sabe's appearances, and to alert me that a "real" X-Men appears in one issue. 

Same with X-Statix -- I need people to know that I don't consider them "X-Men", so when actual X-Men pop up in an issue, I get alerted. 

Quote: 
>>>
Let's have weekly updates. 
<<<

Sounds good to me. At this point, though, the thread's gotten pretty unweildly. I'm thinking of banishing it to Chat, and starting over in the MU forum with a factual, updated once a week thread. 

Quote: 
>>>
Avengers #501, as you surmised, may feature a de-powered Beast. 
<<<

However, for my purposes, I'm picking it up because of Justice, Firestar and Rage's appearances. Coming soon: New Warriors Watch. Oh yes. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 12:35 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

One more quick thing, Paul: 

Earlier in the thread, you referred to Tabitha Smith as Meltdown II. Who's Meltdown I? The MCP doesn't list anyone else... 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 09:07 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Earlier in the thread, you referred to Tabitha Smith as Meltdown II. Who's Meltdown I? The MCP doesn't list anyone else...  
<<<


Hmm. Meltdown I appeared in the four-issue series, "Havok & Wolverine: Meltdown," published by Epic in 1988-89. I see that the series appears in the Key as "H&W:M," but when I go to search the MCP for this comic, nothing comes up.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 05:01 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Did you search for individual issues? When I search for H&W:M 1, it gave me four characters. 


watching: kentucky v. louisville

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 09:08 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

I must have typed in the code incorrectly the first time. So yes, there are some characters listed for this series, but not all of them are there. Neutron and Quark are also among the missing. Do you need a character list? I'm missing issue #3 but can help for the other issues.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 09:45 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Yeah, if I'm missing characters, I'd like to know. 


watching: degrassi the next generation

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 10:31 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

New comic day! 

I'll start things off: the X-Men make a fairly well-publicized cameo in Spider-Man #6 (or, as the indicia are calling it, "Marvel Knights Spider-Man" #6). 

Any other X-sightings this week? 

-Jeph! 

PS - what does everyone consider the "official title" of that book? The indicia reads "Marvel Knights Spider-Man", but the only indication of the "MK" on the cover is the "Marvel Knights" banner that runs on EVERY book. If we were to consider that banner part of the title, we'd have to start calling the other MK books "Marvel Knights Daredevil", "Marvel Knights District X", and so on. (Heck, imagine if we did it retroactively! "Marvel Knights Marvel Knights"!) Me, I call the book "Spider-Man" ... anyone else?

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Sep 2004 10:46 am    
By Ant-Man

I have it filed under Marvel Knights Spider-Man
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 12:57 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

The Millar/Dodson book is solicited as MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN, listed under that name in the official charts, and has that name in the indicia. And arguably, that's what the logo says too. The same applies to MARVEL KNIGHTS FOUR. 

So that's apparently what they're called.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 09 Sep 2004 03:37 pm    Post subject: This Weeks Spots
By Jason Doty

O.k Jeph, here's this weeks stuff. 

Marvel Knights Spider-Man no.6 (Astonishing X-Men, Marvel Girl) 
Spectacular Spider-Man no.19 (Cyclops) 
District X no.5 (Bishop) 
Identity Disc no.4 (Juggernaut) 

Other Picks 
X-Force no.2 
X-Men: The End no.3 
Ultimate X-Men no.51 

Hope this Helps, Doty

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Sep 2004 07:58 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Spectacular Spider-Man no.19 (Cyclops) 
<<<

See, that there is why I started this thread. Who expects Cyclops to pop up randomly like that? 

Quote: 
>>>
District X no.5 (Bishop) 
<<<

I think it's good that you flagged up "District X" -- unlike the other X-books, there's a fair chance that a given issue might NOT feature Bishop. 

Quote: 
>>>
X-Men: The End no.3 
<<<

Any flashbacks to the "real" MU in this issue? 

Thanks, Jason! Much appreciated. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 09:09 am    
By PeteD

Beast, Cyclops and Emma Frost appear in Cable & Deadpool 6 (last page), just in case you don't get it because it's Deadpool.

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 10:37 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I did pick it up, thanks to Cable being one of the headliners -- but thanks! I appreciate the thought. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 09:35 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

To be complete, Spectacular Spider-Man #19 not only has Cyclops, but also a BTS Professor X.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 10:23 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Indeed. And a continuity error, unless Xavier was talking to Cyclops astrally from Genosha. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 10:36 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

That was my assumption.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 15 Sep 2004 12:26 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Since we know from MYSTIQUE that Xavier is in telepathic contact with New York (at least once he gets Genosha up and running), I don't see any obvious problem with him contacting Cyclops.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 15 Sep 2004 02:10 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I had a problem with the notion of Xavier's ghostly astral image turning "white as a sheet" -- but preview pages for Excalibur v3 #5 show us that his mental abilities have greatly increased lately; he is now able to broadcast a full-body, full-color astral image almost anywhere in the world. 

Presumably it was this full-color astral self that went white as a sheet in front of Cyclops' eyes. 

Cyclops, who can't differentiate colors that well through his ruby glasses... 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 05:33 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

It's a figure of speech. Scott doesn't have to literally mean it.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 03:50 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I find it depressing that nobody realized that MONDO was left off the list. 

(Not anymore, though; I edited it to add him just now.) 

And no, I don't count him as a Gen X member.  The one that joined the team was a mole for Black Tom. The "real" Mondo never met Gen X. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 25

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 08:58 pm    Post subject: Infinity Crusade chronology
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Again, because you demanded it (remember when Marvel used to make a big deal of the purported wishes of the readership)... 

My notes for the chronology of a major crossover event. (See the Infinity War post for background info.) 


IRON MAN #294  FB #1 
One morning. 
THOR #461 
One day. This story occurs shortly before TCORPS 2. 
SILVER SURFER v3 #79 
Probably the same day as T 461. 
SILVER SURFER v3 #80 
The same day as SS3 79. 
SILVER SURFER v3 #81 
The same day as SS3 80. Flashbacks not recorded. 
SILVER SURFER v3 #82 
The same day as SS3 81. 
IRON MAN #294/2 
The same day as IM 294-FB #1. 
DEATHLOK v2 #27 
One day, a few weeks after DLOCK2 26. 
THOR #462 
Perhaps the same day as T 461. 
THOR #463 (1-7) 
The same day as T 462. 
ALPHA FLIGHT #122 (1-7) 
The same day as T 463 (1-7). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (1) 
The same day as AF 122 (1-7). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (2-3) ~ WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #18 (1) 
The same day as IC 1 (1). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #18 (2p1) 
The same day as IC 1 (2-3). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (4) 
The same day as W&IW 18 (2p1). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #18 (2p2-4p1) 
The same day as IC 1 (4). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (5p1-9p4) 
The same day as AF 122 (1-7). 
AVENGERS WEST COAST #96  FB 
The same day as IC 1 (5-9). 
IRON MAN #294  FB #3 
The same day as AWC 96-FB. 
ALPHA FLIGHT #122 (8) 
The same day as IM 294-FB #3. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (9p5) 
The same day as AF 122 (8). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #122 (9) 
The same day as IC 1 (9p5). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (9p6-14p4) 
The same day as AF 122 (9). 
WARLOCK CHRONICLES #1 (1-2p1) 
The same day as IC 1 (9-14). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (15p1-15p3) 
The same day as WC 1 (1-2). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (15p4) ~ WARLOCK CHRONICLES #1 (2p2) 
The same day as IC 1 (15). 
WARLOCK CHRONICLES #1 (2p3-22) 
The same day as IC 1 (15p4). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (15p5-19p4) 
The same day as WC 1 (2-22). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104  FB 
The same day as IC 1 (15-19). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (1-4p2) 
The same night as WOSM 104-FB. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (19p5) ~ WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (4p3) 
The same night as WOSM 104 (1-4). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (4p4-4p5) 
The same night as IC 1 (19p5). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (20p1) 
The same night as WOSM 104 (4). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #54 
The same night as IC 1 (20p1). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (20p2-20p4) 
The same night as DRSTR3 54. 
ALPHA FLIGHT #122 (10) ~ INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (20p5) 
The same night as IC 1 (20p2-20p4). 
IRON MAN #294  FB #4 
The same night as AF 122 (10). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (21p1) 
The same night as IM 294-FB #4. 
THOR #463 (8-11p5) 
The same night as IC 1 (21p1). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (21p2) ~ THOR #463 (11p6) 
The same night as T 463 (8-11). 
THOR #463 (12-22) 
The same night as IC 1 (21p2). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (21p3-23p1) 
The same night as T 463 (12-22). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #18 (4p2-6p2) 
The same night as IC 1 (21-23). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (23p2) 
The same night as W&IW 18 (4-6). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #18 (6p3-7p2) 
The same night as IC 1 (23p2). 
AVENGERS WEST COAST #96 (1-20) 
The same night as W&IW 18 (6-7). It is a couple of days after AWC 93. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (23p3-27p1) 
The same night as AWC 96 (1-20). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #18 (7p3-8p2) ~ INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (27p2-28p2) 
The same night as IC 1 (23-27). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #18 (8p3-9p2) 
The same night as W&IW 18 (7-8). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #122 (11-15) 
The same night as W&IW 18 (8-9). 
IRON MAN #294 
The same night as AF 122 (11-15). 
IRON MAN #295 (1-19) 
The same night as IM 294. 
DEATHLOK v2 #28 (1-x) 
The same night as DLOCK2 27. It must be the same night as IM 295 (1-19). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #1 (28p3-40) 
The same night as IM 295 (1-18). Quasar is off-planet. 
THOR #464 
The same night as IC 1 (28-40). 
MOON KNIGHT v3 #57 (1-5) 
The same night as T 464. 
AVENGERS WEST COAST #96 (21-22) 
The same night as MK3 57 (1-5). 
AVENGERS WEST COAST #97 
The same night as AWC 96 (21-22). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (1-3) 
The same night as AWC 97. 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #18 (9p3-20p7) 
The same night as IC 2 (1-3). It is a few months after IW 6 (30-42). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (4p1-5p2) 
The same night as W&IW 18 (9-20). It is a few weeks after Drax defeated the Hulk in battle. 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #18 (21-22) 
The same night as IC 2 (4-5). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (5p3-9p1) 
The same night as W&IW 18 (21-22). It is a few months after W&IW 3.in IG 2, 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (5p1-5p2) ~ INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (9p2-9p3) 
The same night as IC 2 (5-9). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (9p4-10p5) 
The same night as WOSM 104 (5p1-5p2). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (5p3-6p4) ~ INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (11p1-13p4) 
The same night as IC 2 (9-10). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (13p5) 
The same night as WOSM 104 (5-6). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (6p5-8p6) 
The same night as IC 2 (13p5). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #123 
The same night as WOSM 104 (6-8). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #124 
The same night as AF 123. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (13p6-17p1) 
The same night as AF 124. 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #19 (1-3p2) 
The same night as IC 2 (13-17). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (17p2-29p5) 
The same night as W&IW 19 (1-3). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #19 (3p4-6p1) 
The same night as IC 2 (17-29). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (30p1-35p1) 
The same night as W&IW 19 (3-6). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (35p2-35p5) ~ WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (9p1) 
The same night as IC 2 (30-35). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #55 (1-3p1) ~ WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (9p2-9p5) ~ INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (36) 
The same night as IC 2 (35p2-35p5). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (9p6) 
The same night as DRSTR3 55 (1-3). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #55 (3p2-17p4) 
The same night as WOSM 104 (9p6). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (10p5-15p5) 
The same night as DRSTR3 55 (3-17). 
MOON KNIGHT v3 #57 (6p1-10p6) 
The same night as WOSM 104 (10-15). It is the night after MK3 57 (1-5)? Full moon. 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #104 (16) 
The same night as MK3 57 (6-10). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #105 (1-4) 
The same night as WOSM 104 (16). 
MOON KNIGHT v3 #57 (10p7-11p2) 
The same night as WOSM 105 (1-4). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #105 (5-13) 
The same night as MK3 57 (10-11). 
MOON KNIGHT III #57 (11p3-11p4) 
The same night as WOSM 105 (5-13). Full moon. 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #105 (14p1-14p2) 
The same night as MK3 57 (11p3-11p4). 
MOON KNIGHT v3 #57 (12) 
The same night as WOSM 105 (14p1-14p2). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #105 (14p3-15p3) ~ MOON KNIGHT v3 #57 (13p1-13p4) 
The same night as MK3 57 (12). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #105 (15p4-16p4) 
The same night as WOSM 105 (14-15). 
MOON KNIGHT v3 #57 (13p5-18p2) 
The same night as WOSM 105 (15-16). Full moon. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (37-40) 
The same night as MK3 57 (13-18). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #3 (1-6p3) 
The same night as IC 2 (37-40). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #56 (1-2p1) ~ INFINITY CRUSADE #2 (6p4-6p5) 
The same night as IC 3 (1-6). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #56 (2p2-17p4) 
The same night as DRSTR3 56 (1-2). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #3 (7-8) 
The same night as DRSTR3 56 (2-17). 
WARLOCK CHRONICLES #2 
The same night as IC 2 (37-40). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #19 (6p2-22p5) 
The same night as WC 2. 
SPIRITS OF VENGEANCE #9 
One night. The snow may be topical, but it may be an indication that this story occurs after the topical first snow of MSU 1. Full moon. 
SPIRITS OF VENGEANCE #10 
The same night as SOV 9. Full moon. 

GHOST RIDER v2 #39 
The early morning after SOV 10. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #3 (9p1-14p2) 
The morning after W&IW 19 (6-22). 
CAGE #17 
The same day as IC 3 (9-14). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #3 (14p3-26p4) 
The same day as CAGE 17. 
WARLOCK CHRONICLES #3 (1-2) ~ INFINITY CRUSADE #3 (26p5-27p2) 
The same day as IC 3 (14-26). 
WARLOCK CHRONICLES #3 (3-22) 
The same day as WC 3 (1-2). 
DARKHAWK #30 (1-13) 
The same day as WC 3 (3-22). 
THOR #465 
The same day as DH 30 (1-13). 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #16 
The same day as T 465. 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #17 
The same day as SS&WP 16. 
DARKHAWK #30 (14-20) 
The same day as SS&WP 17. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #3 (27p3-29) 
The same day as DHAWK 30 (14-20). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #105 (16p5) 
The same day as IC 3 (27-29). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #3 (30) 
The same day as WOSM 105 (16p5). 
DARKHAWK #31 
The same day as IC 3 (30). It is a few days before DHAWK 32 (1-x). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #3 (31-37p1) 
The same day as DHAWK 31. 
SILVER SURFER v3 #83 
The same day as IC 3 (31-37). Flashback not recorded. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #3 (37p2-40p2) 
The same day as SS3 83. 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #20 
The same day as IC 3 (37-40). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #4 (1-27) 
The same day as W&IW 20. 
SILVER SURFER v3 #84 (1-6) 
The same day as IC 4 (1-27). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #4 (28-34) 
The same day as SS3 84 (1-6). 
SILVER SURFER v3 #84 (7-22) 
The same day as IC 4 (28-34). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #4 (35-40) 
The same day as SS3 84 (7-22). 
WARLOCK CHRONICLES #4 
The same day as IC 4 (35-40). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #21 (1-2p3) 
The same day as WC 4. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (1-2p5) 
The same day as W&IW 21 (1-2). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #21 (2p4-10p2) 
The same day as IC 5 (1-2). 
THOR #466 
The same day as W&IW 21 (2-10). 
SILVER SURFER v3 #85 
The same day as T 466. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (2p6-18p2) 
The same day as SS3 85. 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #106 (7p1-7p2) 
The same day as IC 5 (2-18). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (18p3-20p4) ~ WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #106 (7p3-9p3) 
The same day as WOSM 106 (7p1-7p2). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #106 (9p4-11p6) 
The same day as IC 5 (18-20). 
MOON KNIGHT v3 #57 (18p3) 
The same day as WOSM 106 (9-11). 
WARLOCK CHRONICLES #5 
The same day as MK3 57 (18p3). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (20p5-22p2) 
The same day as WC 5. 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #106 (12p1) 
The same day as IC 5 (20-22). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (22p3) ~ WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #106 (12p2) 
The same day as WOSM 106 (12p1). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (22p4) 
The same day as IC 5 (22p3). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #106 (12p3-15p1) 
The same day as IC 5 (22p4). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #124 /2 
The same day as WOSM 106 (12-15). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #125 
The same day as AF 124/2. 
ALPHA FLIGHT #125/2 
The same day as AF 125. 
ALPHA FLIGHT #126 
The same day as AF 125/2. 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #22 (1-16) 
The same day as AF 126. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (23-25) 
The same day as W&IW 22 (1-16). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (1-3p1) 
The same day as IC 5 (23-25). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (26p1-26p2) 
The same day as AF 127 (1-3). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (3p2-3p3) 
The same day as IC 5 (26p1-26p2). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (26p3) 
The same day as AF 127 (3p2-3p3). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (4-5) 
The same day as IC 5 (26p3). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (26p4-28p2) 
The same day as AF 127 (4-5). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (6) 
The same day as IC 5 (26-28). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (28p3) ~ ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (7p1) 
The same day as AF 127 (6). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (7p2-12p4) 
The same day as IC 5 (28p3). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (28p4-30p1) 
The same day as AF 127 (7-12). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127/2 
The same day as IC 5 (28-30). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #21 (10p3-20p5) 
The same day as AF 127/2. 
INFINITY WATCH #5 (30p2-39p6) 
The same day as W&IW 21 (10-20). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #22 (17p1-20p2) 
The same day as IC 5 (30-39). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #5 (39p7-40p2) 
The same day W&IW 22 (17-20). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #6 (1-2p4) 
The same day as IC 5 (39-40). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #21 (21-22) 
The same day as IC 6 (1-2). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (14p1) 
The same day as W&IW 21 (21-22). Thors appearance here is a mistake. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #6 (2p5-3p4) 
The same day as AF 127 (14p1). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (14p2-14p4) 
The same day as IC 6 (2-3). Thors appearance here is a mistake. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #6 (3p5-3p6) 
The same day as AF 127 (14p1-14p2). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (14p5-14p6) 
The same day as IC 6 (3p5-3p6). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #106 (15p2-16p5) 
The same day as AF 127 (14p5-14p6). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #6 (4) 
The same day as WOSM 106 (15-16). 
DEATHLOK v2 #28 (x-xx) 
The same day as IC 6 (4). It must be the day after DLOCK2 28 (1-x). 
DEATHLOK v2 #29 
The same day as DLOCK2 28 (x-xx). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #6 (5) 
The same day as DLOCK2 29. 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #22 (20p3-22) 
The same day as IC 6 (4-5). 
INFINITY CRUSADE #6 (6-9) 
The same day as W&IW 22 (20-22). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #127 (15-16) 
The same day as IC 6 (6-9). Thors appearance here is a mistake. 
INFINITY CRUSADE #6 (10-40) 
The same day as AF 127 (15-16). 
THOR #467 
The same day as IC 6 (10-40). This story may occur before TS 2. 
THOR ANNUAL #18/3 
It must be the same day as T 467. 
MORBIUS #11/2 (x-xx) 
One day, days after MORB 11/2 (1-x). Simon Stroud and Slaughter. 
MOON KNIGHT v3 #58 
The same night as IC 6 (10-40). Full moon. 
MOON KNIGHT v3 #59 
The same night as MK3 58. Full moon. 
MOON KNIGHT v3 #60 (1-x) 
The same night as MK3 59. It is days before MK3 60 (x-xx). 
SPIRITS OF VENGEANCE #12 
The same night as GR2 39. Full moon. The snow in New Jersey may be topical. 

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #107 
Probably the day after IC 6 (6-40). 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #108 
The same day as WOSM 107. 
IRON MAN #295 (20-22) 
The day after IM 295 (1-19).
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 26

Posted: 11 Sep 2004 06:55 pm    Post subject: Sgt. Fury & his Howlin' Commandos #100
By RLG

What grabbed my attention to this issue was the Captain America & FF cameo appearances. I dont have any other issues of the title, as I was under the impression that they all took place pre-FF #1. 

Has anyone ever tried to place this issue into Fury & Co.'s chronology, and/or Cap's & the FF's? 

- RLG

			*	*	*

Posted: 12 Sep 2004 10:41 pm    
By RLG

I got around to reading this issue and have just posted a synopsis. 

This issue has a cover date of JULY 1972. The same cover date is on FF 124 and CA 151. Both of these stories take place during YEAR 6, with FF 124 occuring sometime early on (I have it as February) and CA 151 occuring in October. 

Since Captain America is present at the celebration in this story, I'm guessing that he and Nick Fury are on good terms. During the time around of CA 151, he and Nick were not on the best of terms. They settled their problems during the first half of CA 153 (also in October) at the same time Sharon Carter quit SHIELD. After that, Cap appears next in A 103 & 104. 

After first part of CA 153, Nick Fury's appears next in A 103. After that, he appears in the Ka-Zar stories in AT 17 - 20 (my best guess places those issues between Oct, YEAR 6 and Jan, YEAR 7.) 

During October, the FF are actually pretty idle, appearing in H 152 -153 and the Thing appearing in MTU 6. The Human Torch is in his classic blue uniform in SGTF 100, so at the very least their appearance takes place before FF 132 (in which he gets his red costume.) So what we have is SGTF 100 occuring AFTER CA 153 (1-11p5), but before FF 132. 

In CA 153 (11p6), Steve and Sharon take a vacation, leaving the Falcon alone to battle the 1950's Captain America & Bucky. That story line concludes in CA 156. 

My thinking is to place SGTF 100 between A 104 & CA 153 (11p6) In the Avengers calendar, that would be between FF 131 (fb - Crystal & Lockjaw rescue Quicksilver) and CA 153 (11p6.) 

If this sounds correct, let me know and I return with the various character appearance additions. 

- RLG

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 09:23 am    
By RLG

In the Issue Analysis forum, the debate over this issues placement seems to have died down. As promised, I've placed the issue in each character's chronology. The only one I'm having difficulty with is Gabe Jones and specifically his appearance in SGTF@4. I don't have that issue, so I'm unable to make the call. I've given BOTH options for his appearance (see below) 

LEE, STAN (STANLEY LIEBER) 
DD 79 
* SGTF 100 
IM 85 

FURY, COL. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH 
H2 148 
*SGTF 100 
H2 152 

CAPTAIN AMERICA/ STEVEN ROGERS 
CA 185-FB 
*SGTF 100 
H2 152 

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS 
FF 125 
*SGTF 100 
M/TU 3 

INVISIBLE GIRL/SUSAN STORM RICHARDS 
FF 125 
*SGTF 100 
M/TU 3 

HUMAN TORCH II/JOHNNY STORM 
FF 125 
*SGTF 100 
M/TU 3 

THING/BENJAMIN J. GRIMM 
FF 125 
*SGTF 100 
M/TU 3 

DUGAN/TIMOTHY ALOYSIUS CADWALLANDER "DUM DUM" 
H2 148 
*SGTF 100 
M/TU 13 

MANELLI, DINO 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 100 
CA 273 

RALSTON, SENATOR ROBERT "REB" (currently a US House of Represenative) 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 100 
CA 273 

KOENIG, ERIC 
CA 146 
*SGTF 100 
CA 188 

COHEN, ISADORE "IZZY" 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 100 
CA 273 

JONES, GABE (1st option) 
A 72 
*SGTF 100 
SGTF@ 4 
CA 174 

JONES, GABE (2nd option) 
A 72 
SGTF@ 4 
* SGTF 100 
CA 174 

** All 1st (and only?) appearances to date ** 
GOODMAN, MARTIN 
AYRES, DICK 
FRIEDRICH, GARY 
ASSASSIN #1 (MARVIN) 
ASSASSIN #2 (unnamed) 
MRS. COHEN 

- RLG

			*	*	*

Thread 27

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 10:03 pm    Post subject: Finite series, incompletely analyzed
By SeanCurtin

In the spirit of the "series not yet analyzed" thread (http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=509), we might as well have a listing of finite series that are partially but not yet completely analyzed. ("Finite" meaning both limited series and ongoings that have been cancelled.) Many issues are within the Gap and a few of those are partially analyzed; many others are not. (This isn't intended to be a list of everything that's "up for grabs", just series that are known to not yet be fully analyzed.) War, Western, UK, pre-modern etc. not included. 

Amazing Spider-Man vol. 2 #36-end 
Avengers: Celestial Quest #3-8 
Avengers West Coast #90-102 
Black Panther vol. 3 #43-end 
Brotherhood #4-9 
Cable vol. 2 #1-12, 99-104 
Cage vol. 1 #11-20 
Captain America vol. 3 #48-50 
Captain Marvel vol. 5 #25-end 
Crystar #1-6 
Darkhawk #50 
Darkhold #4-end 
Deadpool vol. 3 #62-end 
Deathlok vol. 2 #19-end 
Defenders vol. 2 #9-12 
Ghost Rider vol. 3 #33-93 
Ghost Rider/Blaze: Spirits of Vengeance #7-end 
Marvel Comics Presents #119-175 
Marvels #0, 1 
Micronauts vol. 1 & 2 
Moon Knight vol. 3 #46-60 
Morbius #5-35 
Nick Fury vol. 3 #43-end 
Nightstalkers #3-end 
Nomad vol. 2 #9-25 
Origin #3-6 
Peter Parker, Spider-Man vol. 2 #35-end 
Punisher vol. 2 #76-end 
Punisher War Journal #51-end 
Quasar #44-57 
Sentry #3 
She-Hulk vol. 2 #50-60 
Shogun Warriors #1-18 
Silver Sable and the WildPack #29-35 
Sleepwalker #20-end 
Spider-Man Unlimited #19, 21 
Starjammers vol. 1 #2-4 
Tales of the Marvels: The Wonder Years #2 
(Spider-Man's) Tangled Web #7-21 
Terror, Inc. #3, 5, 8-13 
Thunderbolts vol. 1 #58-80 
Thunderstrike #1-8 
Warlock vol. 3 #6-end 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #11-end 
Wolverine vol. 2 #66-81 
X-51: The Machine Man #9-end 
X-Men Unlimited #13 
X-Treme X-Men #7-end 
X-Treme X-Men: Savage Land #2-4 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 10:42 pm    
By Dhall

Starjammers vol.1 1-4 are in the MCP. 

Other than that I really like your list, gives me something to work with. 
Let's add X-Men: True Friends 1-3 
and the Marvel Swimsuit Specials 
Bug 1 
X-Force 124-on 
X-Statix 1-26 
Wolverine v.2 169-189 
Cyclops 4 
Mailbu Exiles 6-11 

I've mostly been trying to plug up the pre-2001 X-gap that I haven't paid much attention to more recent issues..... 

Dave H

Last edited by Dhall on 18 Sep 2004 07:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 03:35 am    
By Jim Smith

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
Thunderbolts vol. 1 #58-80 
<<<


There were 81 issues of Thunderbolts, not 80. As it happens I've been working on that run tonight. (Took a lot less time than I expected, since most of the characters weren't appearing in other books at the time.) I hope to post that pretty soon.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 08:58 am    
By Dhall

More Finite/Cancelled Series: 

Chamber 1-4 
Domino Vol.2 
Sabretooth: Mary Shelly Overdrive 
X-treme X-Men X-Pose 1,2 
X-Men Unlimited vol.1 32?-50 
WOLVERINE/CAPTAIN AMERICA 1-4 
SPIDER-MAN/WOLVERINE 1-4 
WOLVERINE: NETSUKE 1-4 
Muties 1-6 
MEKANIX 1-6 
WOLVERINE/DOOP 1-2 
Soldier X 1-12 
WOLVERINE: XISLE 1-5 
WOLVERINE: SNIKT! 1-5 
Wolverine/Punisher 1-5 
New Mutants v.2 1-13 
Nightcrawler vol.2 
Gambit/Bishop Alpha, 1-6 

Sentinel 1-12 (though I do believe this was already wriiten up in the issue thread, just mentioning it for completeness here.) 

WEAPON X V.2 various oneshots, 1-28 (if this has been cancelled, it belongs on this list) 

Dave H

Last edited by Dhall on 18 Sep 2004 09:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 10:55 am    
By Dhall

And Ongoing X-Titles that need to be analyzed (and put in the MCP:) 

X-Men 118-160 
UX 400-448 
Astonishing X-Men (v.3) 1-4 
Mystique 1-18 
Emma Frost 1-14 
Rogue (v.3) 1-2 
Gambit (v.4) 1 
Jubilee 1 
Exiles 1-52 
Excalibur (v.3) 1-4 (Edited to the correct vol. #....) 
Cable/Deadpool 1-6 
New X-Men 1-4 
District X 1-5 
X-Men Unlimited 1-4 
X-Force (v.2) 1-2 
Wolverine (v.3) 1-18 
Alpha Flight (v.3) 1-7 (not really an x-title, but hey....it's Alpha Flight) 

Dave H

Last edited by Dhall on 18 Sep 2004 09:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 12:24 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
Excalibur (v.2) 1-4 
<<<

That's already here. 


watching: vandy v. ole miss

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 03:29 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

He means Excalibur vol. 3. The one that WE refer to as vol. 2, he has on his first list as "Excalibur: Sword of Power". 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 07:12 pm    
By Dhall

If I'm not mistaken, the indicia lists that as Excalibur:Sword of Power, so I'm not sure why you would call it vol.2 

You wouldn't call Wolverine:Netsuke, Wolverine Vol.3 would you? 

Of course, if you are going strictly by the cover, then yeah I see what you mean, I just thought the MCP went by the indicia in cases like this. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 07:31 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

No. There are no "rules" for the codes. We could as easily have used the code "XIWFR" for Excalibur. It's whatever I find easier to type a billion times in the listings. 


watching: tennessee v. florida

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 07:41 pm    
By Dhall

ah, okay V.3 then.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 08:04 pm    
By Ant-Man

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
If I'm not mistaken, the indicia lists that as Excalibur: Sword of Power, so I'm not sure why you would call it vol. 2 
<<<

It appears that you ARE mistaken...the indicia reads EXCALIBUR Vol. 1. We all know that Marvel can't number volumes to say their lives, so we'll help them out and call it volume 2. 

I've seen a few people refer to that series as Excalibur: Sword of Power, and I've never figured out where they got that title...it's not on the cover, and it's not in the indicia...it that the title that Marvel used in solicitation?
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 09:36 pm    
By Dhall

It must be from the solicitaion, I don't know where else I would have got it, so yes it should be vol.2, since that's NOT in the indicia, I stand corrected. Even Marvel doesn't know what their volume numbers are.... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 28

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 10:03 pm    Post subject: Protocol for newspaper interviews
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

In Cable/Deadpool #7, we see a published interview that Irene Merryweather conducted with Cable. This interview presumably occurred prior to the start of this issue, which I would say makes it a flashback. The interview is presented in dialog format. So how would this be cited in the MCP? I would say that this is similar to the voice-off-panel situation, in which we know what the person says, but we don't see him/her. Thus I suppose that C&DP 7-FB would be listed before C&DP 7 in Nathan's and Irene's chronologies. 

The interview refers to amazing charitable feats that Cable has been performing, and the interview features illustrations of two of those feats -- rerouting waterways to flood half the Sahara (mentioned and illustrated first) and stopping the white blood count deterioration of AIDS victims in Africa (mentioned and illustrated second). Thus, I suppose that for Cable, the sequence of listings would be: 
C&DP 7-FB-FB 
C&DP 7-FB-FB 
C&DP 7-FB 
C&DP 7 

How does this protocol and interpretation sound?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 02:54 am    Post subject: In the same light
By Enda80

Doctor Strange III#9 featured a Now Magazine interview with Morgana Blessing. I will try to dig it out.

			*	*	*

Thread 29

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 03:11 am    Post subject: Punisher Chronology Revisions; Anniversay Maga
By Enda80

Back when Marvel Age still came out, they did a Punisher Anniversary Magazine special. Of interest to us is that it featured an article written by a Detective Mike D'Anton which was written as if it were an article by a policeman on Earth-616. The article recounts the Punisher's activities, giving the order in which they take place. 

Looking things over, the article seems to disagree with some of the Project's listings. 

It places the following stories in this order 
Pun2 13 
20 
29 
PWJ 7 & 8 
Pun 2 29 
PWJ 15 
PWJ 17-19 
Pun2 36 
PUN2 42 
PWJ 25-27 
PUN2 44 
PWJ 29-30 
PUN 2 48 
PUN2 50 
PWJ 31-33 
PUN2 55-56 
PUN 2 58 
PUN 62 
PUN 64-71 
PUN 72 
PWJ 44 
PWZ 1-6 
PWJ 45-47 
PWJ 49 
PWJ 50 
PUN 75 
PUN 81 
PWZ 17-19 
PWJ 57-58 
PUN2 82-84 

I'll get back later with further suggestions. This should not, to my knowledge, affect too many other characters, though PWJ 7-8 feature Wolverine, while PUN 29 ties in with Acts of Vengeance, PWJ 17-19 involves the Daily Bugle, PWJ#29-30 has Ghost Rider, PUN2 62 has Cage, 
#64-71 has Batroc and Tarantula, PWJ 45-47 was Dead Man's Hand with DD and Nomad, and PWJ#57-58 have GR and DD.

			*	*	*

Thread 30

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 02:07 am    Post subject: Circus of Crime (some new entries)
By Jopili

*** = New entry 

CANNONBALL/JACK PULVER 
A 60 
*** T 173 
DD 118 
*** PM 25-FB 
HTD 27 

GAMBONNO, ERNESTO 
PM 24 
***PM 25 
HTD 27 

GAMBONNO, LUIGI 
PM 24 
***PM 25 
HTD 27 

And now, a question: 
CLOWN/"CRAFTY" ELIOT FRANKLIN 
H2 292 
CA 319 < where is the Clown? 
S-H2 1

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 09:48 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

I didn't see the Clown in CA 319 either. Here's who I did see: 

Captain America, Nurse Upham, Mr. Hagar, Max, Sidewinder, Anaconda, Black Mamba, Death Adder, King Cobra (as Cobra), Diamondback II, Asp II, Bushmaster, Cottonmouth II, Rattler, Foolkiller II (as Greg Salinger), Firebrand (as Gary Gilbert), Jaguar, Letha, Strikeback (as Ringer), Bird-Man II, Mirage, Steeplejack, Turner D. Century, Shellshock, Cyclone, Mind-Wave, Hell-Razor, Grappler, Rapier, Hijacker, Cheetah, Commander Kraken, Vamp, Scourge, Tinkerer (BTS)
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 10:13 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
King Cobra (as Cobra) 
<<<


He's back to Cobra now, though, isn't he? 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 10:18 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

He insisted on being called "King Cobra" in the latest Captain America issue.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 02:52 am    
By Enda80

There is a brief scene where the Serpent Society investigates the death...er demise of Death Adder, and they rough up the Circus of Crime for information.

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 03:15 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Jopili wrote: 
>>>
CLOWN/"CRAFTY" ELIOT FRANKLIN 
H2 292 
CA 319 < where is the Clown? 
<<<


Page 8, panel 3. 

Thanks, Enda80, for coming to my defense! 


watching: henry v

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 03:50 am    
By Jopili

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
There is a brief scene where the Serpent Society investigates the death...er demise of Death Adder, and they rough up the Circus of Crime for information. 
<<<

:shocked:
 

Administrator wrote: 
>>>
Page 8, panel 3. 
Thanks, Enda80, for coming to my defense! 
<<<

:embarassed:

...er... just a test to prove how much you were sure about it...

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 09:57 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

That'll teach me to go back and recheck the original comic before posting my old notes. 
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 31

Posted: 27 Jul 2004 06:38 pm    Post subject: Morgan Le Fey in Thor Annual#17
By Enda80

LE FEY, MORGAN 
N 62-FB 
IM 150 
BK2 1-FB 
BK2 2-FB 
**T@ 17/4-FB 
IM 209-FB 
A 241-FB 
A 187-FB 
A 241-FB 

**T@17/4 features a brief flashback to Morgan Le Fay battling the Black Knight (Sir Percy). This takes place isochronally with Strange Tales I#134 (Kang's battle with the Maha Yogi). 

In the same vein,

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 03:49 am    Post subject: Yet another Morgan Le Fay addition
By Enda80

Doctor Strange III#9's Book of the Vishanti back-up reveals that Morgan Le Fay recovered the Darkhold from the Alps where Dracula had left it. 
The Darkhold's Update '89 entry backs this up. 

http://www.drstrange.nl/drstrange/sanctum/book/v_darkholdcurse04.htm 

http://www.marveldirectory.com/misc/darkhold.htm 

The spirit of Morgan Le Fey recovered the Darkhold from the Alps 

LE FAY, MORGAN 
**DRSTR3 9/2-FB 
S-W 37 
S-W 39 
S-W 40 
S-W 41 
S-W 44 
S-W 50

			*	*	*

Thread 32

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 06:56 pm    Post subject: The End
By Dhall

I am reading X-Men:The End and asking myself what's the point really? 
Dull story, dull rehash of better prior stories, and lots of mentions of Claremont's second run on the title, which very few people really liked. 


But my on topic question is aside from any flashback's that may involve canon stuff, are we going to treat The End series like any other alternate future timeline, and at some point put it in the MCP, or does it only merit that treatment if it in some way crosses over with the current 616 timeline? 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 10:21 pm    Post subject: Marvel Universe Alternate Timelines
By stavesacre79

Hello - my name is Sean Arnold - I come on from time to time. I was reading The End and wondering how you guys were going to treat it as well... which brings me to my question: how DO you guys handle alternate timelines? Do you have a place where I can check out the chronology for Days Of Future Past or the Age of Apocalypse or anything like that? Also, how are you guys handling Wolverine's The End series? Just curious. Thanks a bunch.

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 10:51 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
are we going to treat The End series like any other alternate future timeline, and at some point put it in the MCP, or does it only merit that treatment if it in some way crosses over with the current 616 timeline? 
<<<


Both. We'll treat The End like any other alternate future timeline, and at some point only put it in the MCP if it in some way crosses over with the current 616 timeline. 


watching: nightline, I think

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 03:20 pm 
By Dhall

And my next question would be: do we know if each "the end" title happens in the same universe, or in seperate ones? 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 03:43 pm    
By Ant-Man

Well, the Hulk: The End issue takes place so far in the future that it might be hard to determine in which universe it takes place...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Thread 33

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 08:54 pm    Post subject: Infinity War chronology
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

This was requested in another thread, but as the topic is slightly different from the original, I thought I'd start a new thread. 

Here are my notes breaking down all the Infinity War comics, issue by issue, page by page, and panel by panel. All this stuff is on the rough draft calendar I'm trying to compile for this time period. "X"s in the page/panel ranges indicate that I haven't gone back and checked the comics for those ranges. (I used to note "beginning," "middle," and "end," instead of noting specific pages and panels, and I'm trying to convert these references. Sorry 'bout that...) 

FANTASTIC FOUR #366 (1-6) 
One day, shortly after FF 365. It is probably six days after CA 408. 
INFINITY WAR #1 (1-6p2) 
The same night as FF 366 (1-6). 
WONDER MAN v2 #10 
It must be same night as IW 1 (1-6). It may be more than days after CA 401 (1-x). 
WONDER MAN v2 #11 
The same night as WM2 10. Full moon. 
WONDER MAN v2 #12 (1-3) 
The same night as WM2 11. 
SPIDER-MAN #24 (1-x) 
The same night as IW 1 (1-6). 
INFINITY WAR #1 (6p3-15p3) 
The same night as S-M 24 (1-x). This segment probably occurs after CP 5-FB (end). It is probably a Friday night, even though Tony Stark says he just spent a weekend in Las Vegas. We see snow in the north country. 
FANTASTIC FOUR #366 (x-xx) ~ INFINITY WAR #1 (15p4-17p3) 
The same night as IW 1 (6-15). 
INFINITY WAR #1 (17p4-24p4) 
The same night as FF 366 (x-xx) and IW (15-17). 
SPIDER-MAN #24 (x-xx) 
The same night as IW (6-24). 
INFINITY WAR #1 (24p5) 
The same night as S-M 24 (x-xx). 
SPIDER-MAN #24 (xx-xxx) 
The same night as IW 1 (24p5). 
INFINITY WAR #1 (25-32p2) 
The same night as S-M 24 (xx-xxx). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #367 (1-15) 
The same night as IW (25-32). 
INFINITY WAR #1 (35p3) 
The same night as FF 367 (1-15). 
WONDER MAN v2 #12 (4-5) ~ INFINITY WAR #1 (33p1) 
The same day as IW 1 (32p3). Full moon. 
INFINITY WAR #1 (33p2) 
The same day as WM2 12 (4-5) and IW 1 (33p1). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #109/2 (1-x) 
The same night as IW 1 (25-33). 
INFINITY WAR #1 (33p3-35p1) 
The same night as AF 109/2 (1-x). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #7 (1-x) 
The same night as IW 1 (33-35). It is not yet night on Monster Isle. 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #7 (x-xx) ~ INFINITY WAR #1 (35p2-38) 
The same night as W&IW 7 (1-x). 
WONDER MAN v2 #12 (6-22) 
The same night as WM2 12 (4-5). It cannot be three days before WM2 16. 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #42 
The same night as DRSTR@ 2/5 and IW 1. 
SILVER SURFER v3 #67 
The same night as DRSTR3 42. This story occurs after SS@ 5 xx. 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #43 
The same night as SS3 67. 
FANTASTIC FOUR #367 (16) 
The same night as DRSTR3 43. Full moon. 
DEATHLOK #16 
It must be the same night as FF 367 (16). 

Saturday, April 25 
ALPHA FLIGHT #109/2 (x-xx) 
The morning after AF 109/2 (1-x) and IW 1 (35-38). 
AVENGERS #350/2 
It must be the same morning as AF 109/2 (x-xx). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #110 (1-5, 9) 
The same morning as AF 109/2 (x-xx) and A 350/2. 
FANTASTIC FOUR #367 (17-18) ~ INFINITY WAR #2 (1-2p1) 
The same morning as AF 110 (1-5, 9). 
INFINITY WAR #2 (2p2-5p4) 
The same morning as FF 367 (17-18). 
INFINITY WAR #2 (5p5-5p6) ~ SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #4 (1) 
The same morning as IW 2 (2-5). 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #4 (2-3) 
The same morning as SS&WP 4 (1). 
INFINITY WAR #2 (5p7-26p3) 
The same morning as SS&WP 4 (2-3). 
INFINITY WAR #2 (26p4-28p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #367 (19p1) 
The same morning as IW 2 (2-26). 
INFINITY WAR #2 (28p4-31p2) 
The same morning as IW 2 (26-28). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #367 (19p2) 
The same morning as IW 2 (28-30). 
INFINITY WAR #2 (31p3-31p6) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #367 (19p3) 
The same morning as FF 367 (19p2). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #367 (19p4) 
The same morning as IW (31). 
INFINITY WAR #2 (32p1-34p3) 
The same morning as FF 367 (19p4). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (1p1-1p4) 
The same morning as IW 2 (32-34). 
INFINITY WAR #2 (34p4-37p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #367 (20p1) ~ MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (1p5) 
The same morning as MK2 41 (1). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (2-11p6) 
The same morning as IW 2 (34-37). 
WONDER MAN v2 #13 (1-2) 
The same morning as MK2 41 (2-11). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #367 (20p2-22p2) ~ INFINITY WAR #2 (37p4-38p1) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #13 (3p1) ~ MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (11p7-12p1) 
The same morning as WM2 13 (1-2). 
INFINITY WAR #2 (38p2-40) 
The same morning as FF 367 (20-22). 
WONDER MAN v2 #13 (3p2-3p3) 
The same morning as IW 2 (38-40). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (1) 
The same morning as WM2 13 (3). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (1-3p1) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #13 (4p1-4p2) ~ MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (12p2-12p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (2p1-2p2) 
The same morning as FF 368 (1). 
WONDER MAN v2 #13 (4p3-4p5) 
The same morning as IW 3 (1-3). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (2p3) ~ INFINITY WAR #2 (4p2) 
The same morning as WM2 13 (4). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (3) 
The same morning as FF 368 (2p3). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (3p3-4p1) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (4p1-4p2) 
The same morning as FF 368 (3). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (4p2) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #13 (4p6-7) ~ MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (12p4) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (4p3) 
The same morning as IW 3 (3-4). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (4p4) 
The same morning as WM2 13 (4p6-4p7). 
WONDER MAN v2 #13 (5p1-5p2) 
The same morning as FF 368 (4p4). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (4p3-5p4) 
The same morning as WM2 13 (5p1). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (5-6) 
The same morning as IW 3 (4-5). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (12p5-12p6) 
The same morning as FF 368 (5-6). 
WONDER MAN v2 #13 (5p3-6p7) 
The same morning as MK2 (12). 
QUASAR #36 (x-xx) 
One day. A span of time must separate Q 36 (1-x) and (x-xx). 
QUASAR #37 (1-18) 
The same day as Q 36 (x-xx) and WM2 13 (5-6). 
SILVER SURFER v3 #68 
The same day as Q 37 (1-18). 
SILVER SURFER v3 #69 
The same day as SS3 68. 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #44 
The same day as SS3 69. 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #4 (4-8) 
The same day as DRSTR3 44. 
INFINITY WAR #3 (5p5-6p2) 
The same day as SS&WP 4 (4-8). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (6p3-7p2) ~ SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #4 (9p1-9p3) 
The same day as IW 3 (5-6). 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #4 (9p4) 
The same day as IW 3 (6-7). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (7p3-8p5) 
The same day as SS&WP 4 (9). 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #4 (10-22) 
The same day as IW 3 (7-8). 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #5 (1-3) 
The same day as SS&WP 4 (10-22). 
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY #28 
The same day as SS&WP 5 (1-3). 
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY #29 
The same day as GOTG 28. 
ALPHA FLIGHT #110 (6-8, 10-22) 
The same night as GOTG 29. It is a Saturday night. 
WONDER MAN v2 #13 (7p1-20p1) 
The same night as AF 110 (6-8,10-22). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (9p1-9p2) 
The same night as WM2 13 (7-20). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (9p3-9p6) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #13 (20p2-20p3) 
The same night as IW 3 (9p1-9p2). 
WONDER MAN v2 #13 (20p4) 
The same night as WM2 13 (20p2-20p3). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (10p1) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #13 (21p1) 
The same night as WM2 13 (20p4). 
WONDER MAN v2 #13 (21p 2-21p6) 
The same night as IW 3 (10p1). 
NEW WARRIORS #27 
The same night as WM2 13 (21). It is a week after NW 26 (x-xx). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (7-10) 
The same night as NW 27. 
INFINITY WAR #3 (10p2) 
The same night as FF 368 (7-10). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (11p1) ~ INFINITY WAR #3 (10p3-10p4) 
The same night as IW 3 (10p2). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (10p5-12p2) 
The same night as FF 368 (11p1). 
QUASAR #37 (19-22) 
The same night as IW 3 (9-12). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (12p2-12p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (11p2) 
The same night as Q 37 (19-22). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (12p4-14p4) 
The same night as IW 3 (12p2-12p3). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (11p3-20p6) 
The same night as IW 3 (12-14). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (15p1-15p2) ~ DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #45 (1p1-1p2) 
The same night as FF 368 (11-20). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (15p3-15p6) 
The same night as IW 3 pg. 15, pn. 1-2). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (16p1-16p2) ~ DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #45 (1p3-1p4) 
The same night as IW 3 (15p3-15p6). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (16p3-26p6) 
The same night as IW 3 (16p1-16p2). 
MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #108 (Thanos story) 
The same night as IW 3 (16-26). 
MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #109 (Thanos story) 
The same night as M/CP Th 108. 
MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #110 (Thanos story) 
The same night as M/CP Th 109. 
MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #111 (Thanos story) 
The same night as M/CP Th 110. 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (21p1) 
The same night as M/CP Th 111. 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (13p1) 
The same night as FF 368 (21p1). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (26p7-27p1) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (21p2) 
The same night as MK2 41 (13p1). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #45 (2-22p1) 
The same night as IW 3 (16-27). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #111 (pages 1-5) 
The same night as DRSTR3 45 (2-22). It is a Saturday night. 
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY #27 
The same night as IW 3 (26-27). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #8 (1-20p1) 
The same night as GOTG 27. 
QUASAR #38 (1-4p4) 
The same night as W&IW 8 (1-20). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (27p2-28) ~ QUASAR #38 (4p5-5p3) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #13 (22) 
The same night as Q 38 (1-4). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (21p3-22p1) 
The same night as IW 3 (27-28). 
QUASAR #38 (6p1-6p4) 
The same night as FF 368 (21-22). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (29p1-29p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #368 (22p2-22p5) 
The same night as Q 38 (6). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (29p4-32p2) 
The same night as Q 38 (6). 
QUASAR #38 (6p5-10p1) 
The same night as IW 3 (29-32). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (13p3-15p1) 
The same night as Q 38 (6-9). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (32p3-35p2) 
The same night as Q 38 (6-9). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (35p3-36p4) ~ WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #8 (20p2-20p5) 
The same night as IW 3 (32-35). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (37-38) ~ QUASAR #38 (9-10p2) ~ WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #8 (21-22) 
The same night as IW 3 (35-36). 
INFINITY WAR #3 (39) 
The same night as IW 3 (37-38). 
QUASAR #38 (11-21p5) 
The same night as IW 3 (39). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (1-5) 
The same night as Q 38 (11-21). 
QUASAR #38 (21p6-22) 
The same night as IW 4 (1-5). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (6p1-7p3) 
The same night as Q 38 (21-22). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #45 (22p2-22p5) ~ INFINITY WAR #4 (7p4) 
The same night as IW 4 (6-7). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (8, panels 1-3) 
The same night as DRSTR3 45 (22). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #111 (6-22) 
The same night as IW 4 (8). Crescent moon. 
INFINITY WAR #4 (8p4-11p4) 
The same night as AF 111 (6-22). 
WONDER MAN v2 #14 (1-6) 
The same night as IW 4 (8-11). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (1-3p2) 
The same night as WM2 14 (1-6). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (12) 
The same night as FF 369 (1-3). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (3p3) 
The same night as IW 4 (12). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (13p1-14p2) 
The same night as FF 369 (3p3). 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #5 (4-6) 
The same night as IW 4 (13-14). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (14p3-16p1) ~ SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #5 (7) 
The same night as SS&WP 5 (4-6). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (16p2-16p6) 
The same night as IW 4 (14-16). 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #5 (8-17) 
The same night as IW 4 (16). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #41 (15p2-22) 
The same night as SS&WP 5 (8-17). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #42 
The same night as MK2 41 (15-22). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #43 (1-21p1) 
The same night as MK2 42. 
INFINITY WAR #4 (17p1) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #14 (7p1) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (4p1) 
The same night as MK2 43 (1-21). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (17p2) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (4p2) 
The same night as IW 4 (17p1). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (4p3-4p4) ~ INFINITY WAR #4 (17p3) 
The same night as IW 4 (17p2). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (18p1) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (5p1) 
The same night as FF 369 (4p3-4p4). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (5p2) 
The same night as IW 4 (18p1). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (18p2-18p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (5p3) 
The same night as FF 369 (5p2). 
WONDER MAN v2 #14 (7p2-7p4) 
The same night as IW 4 (18p2-18p3). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (18p4) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (5p4) 
The same might as WM2 14 (7p2-7p4). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (19p1) 
The same night as IW 4 (18p4). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (19p2-19p4) ~ SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #5 (18) 
The same night as IW 4 (19p1). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (20p1-20p2) 
The same night as IW 4 (19p2-19p4). 
WONDER MAN v2 #14 (8-10) 
The same night as IW 4 (20p1-20p2). 
SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #5 (19p1-22p2) 
The same night as WM2 14 (8-10). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (20p3-21p1) 
The same night as SS&WP 5 (19-22). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (6-7) 
The same night as IW 4 (20-21). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #43 (21p2-22p4) 
The same night as FF 369 (6-7). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (21p2-21p3) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #14 (11p1-11p3) ~ SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #5 (22p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (8p1) 
The same night as MK2 (21-22). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (21p4-22) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (8p2-8p3) 
The same night as IW 4 (21p2-21p3). 
WONDER MAN v2 #14 (11p4-20) 
The same night as IW 4 (21-22). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (8p4-13) 
The same night as WM2 14 (11-20). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (23p1-26p2) 
The same night as FF 369 (8-13). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (14) 
The same night as IW 4 (23-26). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (26p3-32p6) 
The same night as FF 369 (14). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (15p1-15p2) 
The same night as IW 4 (26-32). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (33p1) 
The same night as FF 369 (15p1-15p2). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (15p3) 
The same night as IW 4 (33p1). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (33p2-34p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (15p4-16p4) 
The same night as FF 369 (15p3). 
WONDER MAN v2 #14 (21p1) 
The same night as IW 4 (33-34). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (34p4) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #14 (21p2) 
The same night as WM2 14 (21p1). 
WONDER MAN v2 #14 (21p3-22p1) 
The same night as IW 4 (34p4). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (34p5-35p1) 
The same night as WM2 14 (21-22). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (35p2-35p4) ~ WONDER MAN v2 #14 (22p2-22p3) 
The same night as IW 4 (34-35). 
WONDER MAN v2 #14 (22p4) 
The same night as IW 4 (35p2-35p4). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (35p5-38p7) 
The same night as WM2 14 (22p4). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (39) ~ QUASAR #39 (1-2p3) 
The same night as IW 4 (35-38). 
QUASAR #39 (2p4-22) 
The same night as IW 4 (39). 
INFINITY WAR #4 (39) 
The same night as Q 39 (2-22). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (17) 
The same night as IW 4 (39). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #390  FB #3 
The same night as FF 369 (17). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (1-2p1) 
The same night as FF 369 (17). 
ALPHA FLIGHT #112 (1-22p3) 
The same night as IW 5 (1-2). 
SLEEPWALKER #17 (x-xx) 
It must be the same night as IW 5 (1-2). It is the night of the day after SW 17 (1-x). 
SLEEPWALKER #18 (1-6p2). 
The same night as SLEEP 17 (x-xx). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (2p2-2p5) ~ SLEEPWALKER #18 (6p3-6p4) 
The same night as SLEEP 18 (1-6). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (2p6-13p6) 
The same night as IW 5 (2p2-2p5). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #9 (1-2p1) ~ INFINITY WAR #5 (14) 
The same night as IW 5 (2-13). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #9 (2p2-5p8) 
The same night as W&IW 9 (1-2). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #47  FB (9p2-9p3) 
The same night as W&IW 9 (2-22). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #9 (6-20) 
The same night as DRSTR3 47-FB (9p2-9p3). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (15p1-22p5) 
The same night as W&IW 9 (6-20). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #47  FB (9p4) 
The same night as IW 5 (15-22). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (22p6-23p6) ~ WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #9 (21) ~ DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #47  FB (9p5) 
The same night as DRSTR3 47-FB (9p4). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #9 (22) 
The same night as IW 5 (22-23). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #47  FB (9p6-11p3) 
The same night as W&IW 9 (22). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (24p1-28) 
The same night as DRSTR3 47-FB (9-11). 
QUASAR #40 (1) 
The same night as IW 5 (24-28). 
QUASAR #40 (2-3) ~ INFINITY WAR #5 (29p1-29p3) 
The same night as Q 40 (1). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (29p4-31p6) 
The same night as Q 40 (2-3). 
SLEEPWALKER #18 (7-22) 
The same night as IW 5 (29-31). 
QUASAR #40 (4-22) 
The same night as SW 18 (7-22). It is almost six weeks before Q 44. 
INFINITY WAR #5 (32p1-32p3) 
The same night as Q 40 (4-22). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (18p1-20p1) 
The same night as IW 5 (32p1-32p3). Quasars appearance here is a mistake. 
INFINITY WAR #5 (32p4) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (20p2) 
The same night as FF 369 (18-20). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (33p1-33p2) 
The same night as IW 5 (32p4). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (33p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (20p3) 
The same night as IW 5 (33p1-33p2). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (33p4) 
The same night as IW 5 (33p3). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (20p4) 
The same night as IW 5 (33p4). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (34-35) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (21p1) 
The same night as FF 369 (20p4). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #369 (21p2-22p2) 
The same night as IW 5 (34-35). 
INFINITY WAR #5 (36-39p2) 
The same night as FF 369 (21-22). 
WONDER MAN v2 #15 (1-6) 
The same night as IW (36-39). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (1-2p3) 
The same night as WM2 15 (1-6). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (1-4) 
The same night as FF 370 (1-2). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #10 (1-13) 
The same night as IW 6 (1-4). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (2p4-8p3). 
The same night as W&IW 10 (1-13) 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #10 (14-16) 
The same night as FF 370 (2-8). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (8p4-8p6) 
The same night as W&IW 10 (14-16). 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #10 (17-20) 
The same night as FF 370 (8). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #46 
The same night as W&IW 10 (17-20). 
WONDER MAN v2 #15 (7-22) 
The same night as DRSTR3 46. 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #47 (1-12p2) 
The same night as WM2 15 (7-22). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (5p1) ~ DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #47 (12p3) 
The same night as DRSTR3 47 (1-12). 
DOCTOR STRANGE v3 #47 (12p4-22p7) 
The same night as IW 6 (5p1). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (5p2-9p1) 
The same night as DRSTR3 47 (12-22). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (9-10) 
The same night as IW 6 (5-9). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (9p2-9p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (11p1) 
The same night as FF 370 (9-10). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (9p4-10p4) 
The same night as IW 6 (9p2-9p3). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (10p5-11p1) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (11p2) 
The same night as IW 6 (9-10). Quasar is incorrectly shown here. 
WARLOCK AND THE INFINITY WATCH #10 (21-22) 
The same night as IW 6 (10-11). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (11p2-12p3) 
The same night as W&IW 10 (21-22). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (12p1-12p2) 
The same night as IW 6 (11-12). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (12p4-13p4) 
The same night as FF 370 (12p1-12p2). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (13p5-19p2) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (12p3-14p3) 
The same night as IW 6 (12-13). Quasar is incorrectly shown here. 
INFINITY WAR #6 (19p3-21) 
The same night as IW 6 (13-19). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (15) 
The same night as IW 6 (19-21). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (22p1) 
The same night as FF 370 (15). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (16) 
The same night as IW 6 (22p1). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (22p2-23p3) 
The same night as FF 370 (16). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (17) 
The same night as IW 6 (22-23). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (24p1-28p2) 
The same night as FF 370 (17). 

MOON KNIGHT v2 #44 (1-6) 
The same morning as IW 6 (24-28). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (28p3-29) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (18) 
The same morning as MK2 44 (1-6). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (30p1-30p3) ~ FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (19p1) ~ MOON KNIGHT v2 #44 (7p1) 
The same morning as IW 6 (28-29). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #44 (7p2) 
The same morning as IW 6 (30p1-30p3). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (19p2-20p3) 
The same morning as IW 6 (28-30). 
INFINITY WAR #6 (30p4-42) 
The same morning as FF 370 (19-20). This segment occurs before CA@ 11, weeks before FF 372, and a few months before W&IW 18 (9-20). According to the MCP, this segment occurs before A 350. 
SLEEPWALKER #19 (1-x) 
The same morning as IW 6 (30-42). 
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY #30 
The same morning as IW 6 (30-42). 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #44 (7p3-19p3) 
The same day as IW 6 (30-42). 
SILVER SURFER v3 #70 
The same day as IW 6 (30-42). 
SILVER SURFER v3 #71 (1-x) 
The same day as SS3 70. It is perhaps a week before SS3 71 (x-xx). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #371  FB 
It must be the same day as MK2 44 (7-19). 
FANTASTIC FOUR #370 (20p4-22p2) 
Probably the same day as FF 370 (19-20), but after MK2 44 (7-19). It is the same day as FF 371-FB. 
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY #31 
Probably the same day as GOTG 30. 
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY #32 
The same day as GOTG 31. 
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY #33 
The same day as GOTG 31. 
QUASAR #41 
It must be the same day as GOTG 33 -- Blue Marvel probably arrives at Avengers Mansion right after Cap and Major Victory leave the mansion of Stranges Sanctum Sanctorum; if this is true, then the battle involving Kismet must have lasted for hours, since Q 40. It is shortly after NW 25. According to the MCP, this story occurs before A 350. 
QUASAR #42 
The same day as Q 41. 
QUASAR #43 
The same day as Q 42. 
MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #112 (Demogoblin story) 
This story occurs between S-M 24 and WOSM 93. It must be after IW 6, so it must be same day as IW 6 (30-42). It is after the issue of T in which Code Blue goes to Asgard. 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #93 
It must be the same day as MK2 44 (19-20) and M/CP DG 112. This story occurs after ASM 366 and a month after MK2 33. 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #94 
The same day as WOSM 92. 
SPIRITS OF VENGEANCE #3 
It must be the same night as WOSM 94. This story occurs after DHOLD 1. Full moon. 
SLEEPWALKER #19 (x-xx) 
Probably the same night as SLEEP 19 (1-x). 
SLEEPWALKER #20 
The same night as SLEEP 19 (x-xx). 
SLEEPWALKER #21 (1-x) 
The same night as SLEEP 20. 
SPIRITS OF VENGEANCE #4 
It must be the same night as SOV 3, although WOSM 94 is referred to as having happened last night. It is shortly after GR2 24. 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #95 
The same stormy night as WOSM 94 and SOV 3. 
SPIRITS OF VENGEANCE #5 
The same night as WOSM 95. 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #96 
The same night as SOV 5. 
SPIRITS OF VENGEANCE #6 
The same night as WOSM 96. This story occurs before DLOK2 26. 

SPIRITS OF VENGEANCE #7 
Probably the early morning after SOV 6. The snow must be topical. 
SPIRITS OF VENGEANCE #8 
The same day as SOV 7. 
MOON KNIGHT v2 #44 (20-22) 
The morning of the day after MK2 44 (19-20). This segment occurs after WOSM 93. 
SLEEPWALKER #21 (x-xx) 
The day after SLEEP 21 (1-x). It is a school day. 
SLEEPWALKER #22 
The same night as SLEEP 21. This story occurs before DLOK2 26. 
SLEEPWALKER #23 
The same cold night as SLEEP 22. 
SLEEPWALKER #24 
The same night as SLEEP 23. 

MOON KNIGHT v2 #44 (20-22) 
The morning of the day after MK2 44 (19-20).
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 09:01 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Here's what I've got. Not plotted on a calendar, but including character appearances: 

IW 1 PG 7 PN 3-PG 8 PN 3 
DOPPELGANGER 
ASM 

IW 1 PG 8 PN 4-PG 10 
GALACTUS 
ETERNITY 
NOVA II 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 11 PN 1-5 
IM 
IM DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 11 PN 6-PG 14 PN 1 
THANOS 

IW 1 PG 14 PN 2-5 
WOLVERINE 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 15 PN 1-3 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL-BTS 
MAGUS-BTS 

IW 1 PG 15 PN 4-PG 16 PN 3 
DR. DOOM 

IW 1 PG 16 PN 4-PG 18 PN 3 (SAME AS FF 366, WHICH TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
MR. FANTASTIC 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 18 PN 4-PG 20 
THANOS 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 21 PN 1 
IM 
IM DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 21 PN 2 
WOLVERINE 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 21 PN 3 
IM 
IM DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 21 PN 4 
WOLVERINE 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 21 PN 5 
IM 
IM DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 21 PN 6-PG 22 PN 1 
WOLVERINE 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 22 PN 2-PG 23 
IM 
IM DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 24 PN 1-5 
WOLVERINE 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 

S-M 24 PG 6-22 PN 3 
DEMOGOBLIN 
DOPPELGANGER 
ASM 

IW 1 PG 24 PN 6-PG 25 PN 4 
GALACTUS 
NOVA II 

IW 1 PG 25 PN 5 
DEMOGOBLIN-BTS 
DOPPELGANGER 
ASM 

S-M 24 PG 22 PN 4-PG 23 (END) 
DEMOGOBLIN 
DOPPELGANGER 
ASM 

IW 1 PG 26-PG 27 PN 1 
IM 
IM DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 27 PN 2-PG 31 PN 1 
BEAST DOPPEL 
BLACK KNIGHT DOPPEL 
BLACK WIDOW DOPPEL 
CA DOPPEL 
COLOSSUS DOPPEL 
CYCLOPS DOPPEL 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
HERCULES DOPPEL 
HULK DOPPEL 
HUMAN TORCH DOPPEL 
KARNAK DOPPEL 
MAGUS 
NOVA DOPPEL 
POLARIS DOPPEL 
PROF X DOPPEL 
PUCK DOPPEL 
QUASAR DOPPEL 
SASQUATCH DOPPEL 
SHE-HULK DOPPEL 
SPEEDBALL DOPPEL 
STRONG GUY DOPPEL 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL 
THING DOPPEL 
THOR DOPPEL 
TRITON DOPPEL 
VISION DOPPEL 
WOLFSBANE DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 31 PN 2-PG 32 PN 2 
THANOS 

IW 1 PG 32 PN 3-4 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 1 PG 32 PN 5-PG 33 PN 1 
BK 
BW 
CA 
CRYSTAL 
HERCULES 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
SERSI 
VISION 

IW 1 PG 33 PN 2 
ANGEL 
BEAST 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
FORGE 
GAMBIT 
ICEMAN 
MARVEL GIRL 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
PSYLOCKE 
ROGUE 
STORM 

FF 367 PG 1-PG 2 PN 2 
BEAST 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MARVEL GIRL 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
ROGUE 

IW 1 PG 33 PN 3 
FIRESTAR 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
NAMORITA 
NOVA 
SILHOUETTE 
SPEEDBALL 

IW 1 PG 34 PN 1 ~ WM2 12 (WM TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
DR. PYM 
LIVING LIGHTNING 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPELGANGER 
SCARLET WITCH 
SPIDER-WOMAN 
USAGENT 
WONDER MAN 

IW 1 PG 34 PN 2 
VAL COOPER 
HAVOK 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
MULTIPLE MAN 
POLARIS 
QUICKSILVER 
STRONG GUY 
WOLFSBANE 

AF 109/2 PG 3 
AURORA 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
NORTHSTAR 
PUCK 
SASQUATCH 
VINDICATOR II 
WILD CHILD 

IW 1 PG 34 PN 3 (ACCORDING TO FOOTNOTE DURING AF 109) 
AURORA 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
NORTHSTAR 
PUCK 
SASQUATCH 
VINDICATOR II 
WILD CHILD 

AF 109/2 PG 4 PN 1 
AURORA-BTS 
BOX-BTS 
NORTHSTAR-BTS 
PUCK-BTS 
SASQUATCH-BTS 
VINDICATOR II-BTS 
WILD CHILD-BTS 
WINDSHEAR-BTS 

IW 1 PG 35 PN 1-4 
DR. STRANGE 
NOVA II-BTS 

DRSTR3 42 PG 1-21 
CLEA 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
NOVA II 
RINTRAH 

SS3 67 PG 11 ~ DRSTR3 42 PG 22 (SS3 TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
SILVER SURFER 

SS3 67 PG 12-END 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
MAGUS 
NOVA II 
SILVER SURFER 

IW 1 PG 35 PN 5-PG 37 PN 1 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

IW 1 PG 37 PN 2-PG 40 (END) ~ WIW 7 PG 20-22 (WIW TAKES PRECENDENCE) 
DRAX-BOTH 
GAMORA-BOTH 
MOLE MAN-BOTH 
MOONDRAGON-BOTH 
PIP-BOTH 
THANOS-BOTH 
WARLOCK-BOTH 

FF 367 PG 2 PN 3-PG 16 
DR. DOOM-BTS 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MS MARVEL 
PUPPET MASTER 
FRANKLIN RICHARDS 
THING 
THING DOPPEL 
WOLVERINE 

DLOK2 16 
DEATHLOK 
DEATHLOK DOPPEL 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 

FF 367 PG 17 PN 1-2 ~ IW 2 PG 1 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
HUMAN TORCH 
THING 

FF 367 PG 17 PN 3-PG 18 PN 2A 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
THING 

FF 367 PG 18 PN 2B-PN 3 ~ IW 2 PG 2 PN 1 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
HUMAN TORCH 
THING 

FF 367 PG 18 PN 3 (NON-DIALOG) 
BLACK CAT 
BK 
BW 
CYCLOPS 
DD 
DARKHAWK 
FIRESTAR 
GAMBIT 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HULK 
MARVEL GIRL 
NAMORITA 
NOVA 
PSYLOCKE 
SHE-HULK 
SILHOUETTE 
SPEEDBALL 
THOR 
VISION 
WASP 

IW 2 PG 2 PN 2-PG 3 (NON-DIALOG) 
ANGEL 
AURORA 
BEAST 
BK 
BW 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DD 
DARKHAWK 
DR. PYM 
FIRESTAR 
FORGE 
GAMBIT 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HULK 
ICEMAN 
LIVING LIGHTNING 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOON KNIGHT 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
MULTIPLE MAN 
NAMORITA 
NORTHSTAR 
NOVA 
POLARIS 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 
PUCK 
QUASAR 
QUICKSILVER 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHE-HULK 
SILHOUETTE 
SPEEDBALL 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THOR 
USAGENT 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WASP 
WILD CHILD 
WOLFSBANE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 2 PG 4 PN 1-6 
BEAST 
CA 
DR. PYM 
HULK 
MOON KNIGHT 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
NOVA 
PROF X 
WONDER MAN 

AF 110 PG 5 PN 1 
BK 
CA 
HERCULES 
HULK 
NORTHSTAR 
PUCK 
SASQUATCH 
SERSI 
STRONG GUY 

IW 2 PG 4 PN 7-PG 5 PN 6 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

SSWP 4 PG 1-3 
DR. DOOM 
DR. DOOM DOPPEL 
KANG 

DRSTR3 43 
AGAMOTTO 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
NOVA II 
SILVER SURFER 

SSWP 4 PG 4-8 
DR. DOOM DOPPEL 
SILVER SABLE 

IW 2 PG 5 PN 7-PG 8 PN5 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 2 PG 8 PN 6-PG 10 PN 1 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 2 PG 10 PN 2-PG 13 PN 1 
DR. DOOM 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
KANG 
NOVA II 
SILVER SURFER 

AF 110 PG 9 
BOX 
ICEMAN 
SPEEDBALL 
VINDICATOR II 
WINDSHEAR 

IW 2 PG 13 PN 2-3 
BW 
CA 
HULK 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
NOVA 
PROFESSOR X 
SCARLET WITCH 
THOR 

IW 2 PG 13 PN 4-PG 14 PN 2 
HAWKEYE 
SPIDER-MAN 

IW 2 PG 14 PN 3-PG 18 PN 1 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 2 PG 18 PN 2-PG 21 PN 1 
HAWKEYE 
HAWKEYE DOPPEL 
IM DOPPEL 
SPIDER-MAN 

IW 2 PG 21 PN 2-PG 24 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MAGUS-FB 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 2 PG 25 PN 1-2 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 2 PG 25 PN 3-8 
DEATH 

IW 2 PG 26 PN 1 
IM DOPPEL 

IW 2 PG 26 PN 2 
HAWKEYE 
SPIDER-MAN 

IW 2 PG 26 PN 3-4 
BK 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DR. PYM 
FIRESTAR 
GAMBIT 
HERCULES 
HULK 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
PROF X 
PUCK 
QUASAR 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SHE-HULK 
SPEEDBALL 
THOR 
USAGENT 
VISION 
WONDER MAN 

FF 367 PG 19 PN 1 ~ IW 2 PG 26 PN 5-7 (FF 367 HAS PRECEDENCE) 
BEAST-FF 
BW-FF/IW 
CA-FF/IW 
COLOSSUS-IW 
CYCLOPS-FF/IW 
DARKHAWK-IW 
DR. PYM-FF 
HERCULES-FF/IW 
HULK-FF/IW 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL-FF/IW (IW 2-BTS) 
NAMORITA-FF 
NOVA-IW 
PROF X-FF 
PSYLOCKE-IW 
PUCK-FF 
SASQUATCH-FF/IW 
STORM-BOTH 
USAGENT-FF 
WONDER MAN-IW 

IW 2 PG 27-PG 28 PN 3 
ANGEL 
BEAST 
BK 
CA 
CRYSTAL 
CYCLOPS 
DD 
FORGE 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
IM DOPPEL 
MARVEL GIRL 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
MULTIPLE MAN 
NAMORITA 
NOVA 
POLARIS 
PROF X 
QUICKSILVER 
ROGUE 
SCARLET WITCH 
SILHOUETTE 
SPEEDBALL 
SPIDER-WOMAN 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
THOR 
USAGENT 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 2 PG 28 PN 4-PG 29 
DEATH 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 2 PG 30 PN 1-5 
CYCLOPS 
IM DOPPEL 
MOCKINGBIRD 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
NOVA 
STORM 
THOR 
USAGENT 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 

FF 367 PG 19 PN 2 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 

IW 2 PG 30 PN 6-PG 31 PN 2 
DEATH 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOLE MAN 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 2 PG 31 PN 3 ~ FF 367 PG 19 PN 3 ~ MK3 41 PG 1 PN 1-4 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-IW/FF 
COLOSSUS-MK 
CYCLOPS-IW/MK 
DD-FF/MK 
GAMBIT-IW/MK 
HULK-IW/MK 
HUMAN TORCH-FF 
ICEMAN-IW 
IM DOPPEL-IW/FF/MK 
MARVEL GIRL-IW/MK 
MOON KNIGHT-MK 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL-IW/FF/MK 
PSYLOCKE-FF 
PUCK-MK 
ROGUE-IW 
SCARLET WITCH-IW/MK 
STRONG GUY-FF 
THOR-FF 
VISION-FF 
WOLVERINE-IW/FF/MK 
WONDER MAN-FF 

FF 367 PG 19 PN 4 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 

IW 2 PG 31 PN 4-PG 33 PN 1 
BEAST 
BK 
BW 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CRYSTAL 
CYCLOPS 
DD 
FIRESTAR 
GAMBIT 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
IM DOPPEL 
MARVEL GIRL 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
NAMORITA 
NOVA 
PROF X 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
SHE-HULK 
SPEEDBALL 
SPIDER-WOMAN 
THING 
USAGENT 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WILD CHILD 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 2 PG 33 PN 2-5 
DD 

IW 2 PG 33 PN 6-PG 34 PN 3 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOLE MAN 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 2 PG 34 PN 4 ~ FF 367 PG 20 PN 1 (IW 2 TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-BOTH 
DD-BOTH 
FORGE-IW 
GAMBIT-IW 
HAVOK--IW 
HERCULES-IW 
HULK-IW 
HUMAN TORCH-BOTH 
IM DOPPEL-BOTH 
LIVING LIGHTNING-FF 
MARVEL GIRL-IW 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL-BOTH 
NOVA-FF 
PSYLOCKE-IW 
ROGUE-FF 
STRONG GUY-BOTH 
THOR-BOTH 
WASP-FF 
WOLVERINE-BOTH 
WONDER MAN-BOTH 

IW 2 PG 34 PN 5 ~ MK3 41 PG 1 PN 5 
DD-MK 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL-IW/MK 

IW 2 PG 35 
BK 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
FORGE 
GAMBIT 
HULK 
IM DOPPEL 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
NORTHSTAR 
QUICKSILVER 
ROGUE 
SPIDER-WOMAN 
STRONG GUY 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 13 PG 1-PG 2 PN 3 
BEAST 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
DARKHAWK 
HAVOK 
HULK 
ICEMAN-BTS 
IM DOPPEL 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
ROGUE 
SCARLET WITCH 
USAGENT 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 2 PG 36 ~ MK3 41 PG 2-3 
BANSHEE-MK 
BEAST-MK 
BK-IW/MK 
BW-MK 
CA-MK 
COLOSSUS-MK 
CRYSTAL-MK 
CYCLOPS-IW/MK 
DD-MK 
GAMBIT-IW/MK 
HERCULES-MK 
HULK-IW/MK 
HUMAN TORCH-MK 
ICEMAN-IW/MK 
IM DOPPEL-MK 
LIVING LIGHTNING-IW 
MOON KNIGHT-MK 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL-MK 
MULTIPLE MAN-IW 
NOVA-IW 
PUCK-MK 
QUICKSILVER-IW 
ROGUE-IW/MK 
SASQUATCH-MK 
SCARLET WITCH-MK 
SHE-HULK-MK 
SPEEDBALL-IW/MK 
STRONG GUY-IW/MK 
THING-IW/MK 
THOR-MK 
USAGENT-IW/MK 
VINDICATOR II-IW/MK 
VISION-MK 
WASP-IW/MK 
WILD CHILD-MK 
WOLVERINE-IW 
WONDER MAN-MK 

FF 367 PG 20 PN 2-3 
CYCLOPS 
GAMBIT 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
NOVA 
ROGUE 
SPEEDBALL 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
USAGENT 
WOLVERINE 

WM2 13 PG 2 PN 4-5 
SCARLET WITCH 
STRONG GUY 
WONDER MAN 

MK3 41 PG 4-PG 11 PN 4 
ANGEL 
BEAST 
BK 
COLOSSUS 
DD 
GAMBIT 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
IM DOPPEL 
JUBILEE 
LIVING LIGHTNING 
MOON KNIGHT 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
MULTIPLE MAN 
NAMORITA 
NORTHSTAR 
NOVA 
PSYLOCKE 
PUCK 
QUICKSILVER 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHE-HULK 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
THOR 
USAGENT 
WILD CHILD 
WOLVERINE 

IW 2 PG 37 PN 1 
DD 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 

IW 2 PG 37 PN 2 ~ MK3 41 PG 11 PN 5 
BEAST-IW/MK 
DD-IW/MK 
MOON KNIGHT-MK 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL-IW/MK 
ROGUE-IW 
WOLFSBANE-IW/MK 

FF 367 PG 21 PN 1-2 
BEAST 
BK 
COLOSSUS 
FIRESTAR 
HULK 
IM DOPPEL 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
QUICKSILVER 
SPIDER-WOMAN 
VISION 
WOLFSBANE 

IW 2 PG 37 PN 3-4 ~ MK3 41 PG 11 PN 6-7 
BEAST-IW/MK 
DD-IW/MK 
MOON KNIGHT-MK 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL-IW/MK 
ROGUE-IW 
WOLFSBANE-IW/MK 
WOLVERINE-MK 

FF 367 PG 21 PN 1-3 
BEAST 
HERCULES 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-BTS 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
QUASAR 
SASQUATCH 
THOR 
WASP 
WOLFSBANE 

IW 2 PG 37 PN 5 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 

WM2 13 PG 3 PN 1 
CA 
HAVOK 
IM DOPPEL 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
MULTIPLE MAN 
NOVA 
PUCK 
ROGUE 
SPEEDBALL 
STRONG GUY 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 2 PG 38 PN 1 ~ FF 367 PG 21 PN 4 ~ MK3 41 PG 12 PN 1 
BK-IW 
CA-IW/FF 
COLOSSUS-IW/MK 
CYCLOPS-IW/FF 
DARKHAWK-IW 
GAMBIT-IW/FF 
HAVOK-IW/FF 
HERCULES-IW/FF 
HULK-IW/FF 
ICEMAN-IW/FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW/FF 
IM DOPPEL-IW/FF 
MOON KNIGHT-MK 
MULTIPLE MAN-IW/FF 
NOVA-IW 
POLARIS-IW 
PUCK-IW/FF 
SASQUATCH-IW/FF 
STORM-IW 
STRONG GUY-IW/FF 
THING-IW/FF 
THOR-IW 
USAGENT-IW 
VISION-IW 
WOLVERINE-IW/FF 
WONDER MAN-IW/FF 

FF 367 PG 22 PN 1-2 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 

IW 2 PG 38 PN 2-3 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 

IW 2 PG 39 PN 1 ~ FF 367 PG 22 PN 3 (END) ~ MK3 41 PG 12 PN 2 
NO ONE (4 FREEDOMS PLAZA EXPLODES) 

IW 2 PG 39 PN 2 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 

IW 2 PG 40 (END) 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

WM2 13 PG 3 PN 3 
WONDER MAN 

FF 368 PG 1 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
THING 

FF 368 PG 2 PN 1 ~ WM2 13 PG 4 PN 1 ~ IW 3 PG 2 ~ MK3 41 PG 12 PN 3 
BEAST-FF/IW/MK 
BK-FF/WM/IW/MK 
CA-IW/MK 
COLOSSUS-FF/WM/IW/MK 
CYCLOPS-FF/IW 
DD-FF/IW 
FIRESTAR-IW 
GAMBIT-IW 
HERCULES-FF/IW/MK 
HULK-FF/WM/IW/MK 
HUMAN TORCH-FF 
ICEMAN-WM 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF/WM/IW/MK 
MARVEL GIRL-WM/IW 
MOON KNIGHT-MK 
MULTIPLE MAN-IW 
NAMORITA-FF/IW 
NOVA-IW/MK 
POLARIS-IW 
PROF X-FF 
PUCK-FF/IW 
ROGUE-FF 
SHE-HULK-FF/IW 
SCARLET WITCH-FF/IW 
SPEEDBALL-FF 
STRONG GUY-IW/MK 
THING-FF/WM/IW/MK 
THOR-FF/WM/IW/MK 
VINDICATOR II-IW 
VISION-FF 
WASP-FF 
WOLVERINE-FF 
WONDER MAN-WM/IW 

FF 368 PG 2 PN 2 ~ IW 3 PG 2 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
THOR 

IW 3 PG 3 PN 1 ~ WM2 13 PG 4 PN 2-5 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
BEAST-WM 
HERCULES-IW 
HULK-IW 
NOVA-WM 
SCARLET WITCH-WM 
THOR-IW/WM-BTS 
WONDER MAN-WM 

FF 368 PG 2 PN 3 ~ IW 3 PG 3 PN 2 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
THOR 

FF 368 PG 3 PN 1 
THOR 

FF 368 PG 3 PN 2-3 
BEAST 
COLOSSUS 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
IM DOPPEL 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
SASQUATCH 
THING 

FF 368 PG 4 PN 1-3 ~ IW 3 PG 3 PN 3-PG 4 PN 2 ~ WM2 13 PG 4 PN 6 ~ MK3 41 PG 12 PN 4 
BEAST-FF/IW/WM-BTS/MK 
CA-FF/IW 
COLOSSUS-WM/MK 
CYCLOPS-FF/IW 
DARKHAWK-IW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF/IW 
IM DOPPEL-FF/IW/WM/MK 
MAGUS-FF/IW/WM/MK 
MARVEL GIRL-FF 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL-FF/IW/WM/MK 
SASQUATCH-FF/IW/WM 
SHE-HULK-IW 
THANOS DOPPEL-FF/IW/WM/MK 
THING-FF/IW/MK 
THOR-IW 
WOLVERINE-FF/IW 
WONDER MAN-WM 

WM2 13 PG 4 PN 7-PG 5 PN 1 
BEAST 
COLOSSUS 
GAMBIT 
SCARLET WITCH 
SPEEDBALL 
THANOS DOPPEL 
THING 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

FF 368 PG 4 PN 4 
BEAST 
CA 
DARKHAWK 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
SASQUATCH 
SHE-HULK 
THING 
VISION 
WONDER MAN 

IW 3 PG 4 PN 3 
BEAST 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DARKHAWK 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MOON KNIGHT 
SASQUATCH 
SHE-HULK 
THING 
THOR 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 13 PG 5 PN 2-6 
MARVEL GIRL 
SCARLET WITCH (~ IW 3 SEE JUST BELOW) 
THOR 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 3 PG 4 PN 4-PG 5 PN 4 
BEAST 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
DR. PYM 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MOON KNIGHT 
NOVA 
PUCK 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH (~ WM2 13 SEE JUST ABOVE, THEN JUST HERE) 
SHAMAN 
SPEEDBALL 
THING 
THOR 
VISION 

SS3 68 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
KHOON 
NOVA II 
SILVER SURFER 

SS3 69 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
KHOON 
MAGUS (NOT TRULY AN APPEARANCE; JUST AN ARTISTIC RENDITION) 
NOVA II 
SILVER SURFER 

FF 368 PG 5-10 
BW 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
COLOSSUS DOPPEL 
CYCLOPS DOPPEL 
DD 
DARKHAWK 
FIRESTAR 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
HUMAN TORCH DOPPEL 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MARVEL GIRL DOPPEL 
NAMORITA 
NOVA 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SPEEDBALL 
STORM DOPPEL 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
THOR 
WASP 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 

IW 3 PG 5 PN 5-PG 6 PN 2 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
NOVA II 
SILVER SURFER 

IW 3 PG 6 PN 3-PG 7 PN 2 ~ SSWP 4 PG 9 PN 1-3 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

SSWP 4 PG 9 PN 4 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

IW 3 PG 7 PN 3-PG 8 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL 
WARLOCK 

NW 27 JAM SCENE 
ANGEL 
BEAST 
BK 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DARKHAWK 
FIRESTAR 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
ICEMAN 
MARVEL GIRL 
MULTIPLE MAN 
NAMORITA 
NORTHSTAR 
NOVA 
PSYLOCKE 
PUCK 
QUICKSILVER 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHE-HULK 
SPIDER-WOMAN 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
THOR 
VISION 
WILD CHILD 
WOLFSBANE 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 13 PG 7-19 
BEAST 
BK 
CA 
HAWKEYE 
HERCULES 
MULTIPLE MAN 
SCARLET WITCH 
SPIDER-MAN 
THOR 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 
WONDER MAN DOPPEL 

WM2 13 PG 20 PN 1 
HAWKEYE-FB 
HERCULES-FB 
SPIDER-MAN-FB 
THOR-FB 

SSWP 4 PG 11 PN 1 (FB) 
HAWKEYE-FB 
HULK-FB 
SPIDER-MAN-FB 
THOR-FB 

IW 3 PG 9 PN 1-2 
BLACK CAT 
CA 
DR. PYM 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
VISION 
WONDER MAN 

IW 3 PG 9 PN 3-4 ~ WM2 13 PG 20 PN 2 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
BLACK CAT-IW/WM 
BK-WM 
CA-IW/WM 
THING-WM 
WONDER MAN-IW/WM 

IW 3 PG 9 PN 5 ~ WM2 13 PG 20 PN 3 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
BLACK CAT-IW/WM 
CA-IW/WM 
DR. PYM-BTS-IW 
HUMAN TORCH-IW (CANNOT APPEAR HERE, SINCE HES FIGHTING X-MEN DOPPELS IN FF) 
THING-IW 
WONDER MAN-IW/WM 

IW 3 PG 9 PN 6 ~ WM2 13 PG 20 PN 4 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-IW 
DR. PYM-IW/WM 
HUMAN TORCH-IW (CANNOT APPEAR HERE) 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW/WM 
THING-IW/WM 
VISION-IW 
WONDER MAN-IW/WM 

WM2 13 PN 20 PN 5 
THING 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 13 PG 21 PN 1 ~ IW 3 PG 10 PN 1 (WM TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-IW 
DR. PYM-IW/WM 
HUMAN TORCH-IW/WM (CANNOT APPEAR HERE) 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW/WM 
SCARLET WITCH-IW 
THING-IW/WM 
VISION-IW/WM 
WONDER MAN-IW/WM 

WM2 13 PN 21 PN 2-3 
HUMAN TORCH (CANNOT APPEAR HERE) 
THING 
WONDER MAN 

IW 3 PG 10 PN 2 
DR. PYM 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
VISION 

FF 368 PG 11 PN 1 ~ WM2 13 PG 21 PN 4-5 ~ IW 3 PG 10 PN 3 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
BEAST-FF 
CA-FF/IW 
DR. DRUID-WM 
DR. PYM-FF/IW 
AGATHA HARKNESS-WM 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF/IW 
PUCK-FF 
SCARLET WITCH-FF/WM/IW 
SHAMAN-FF 
STRONG GUY-FF 
THING-WM/IW 
VISION-IW 
WONDER MAN-FF/WM/IW 

IW 3 PG 10 PN 3 (VISIONS DIALOG)-PN 4 
CA 
DR. PYM 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MAGUS-BTS 
SCARLET WITCH 
THING 
VISION 
WONDER MAN 

IW 3 PG 10 PN 5-PG 12 PN 1 
IM DOPPEL 
MAGUS 
MR. FANTASTIC DOPPEL 
THANOS DOPPEL 

DRSTR3 44 
CYTTORAK 
DR. STRANGE-ALSO FB 
GALACTUS-ALSO FB 
JUGGERNAUT-ALSO FB 
NOVA II-ALSO FB 
SILVER SURFER-ALSO FB 

FF 368 PG 11 PN 2 ~ IW 3 PG 12 PN 2-3 
BEAST-IW 
CA-IW 
CYCLOPS-IW 
DR. DRUID-FF/IW 
DR. PYM-IW 
AGATHA HARKNESS-FF/IW 
HULK-IW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF/IW 
NOVA-IW 
PUCK-IW 
SCARLET WITCH-FF/IW 
STORM-IW 
STRONG GUY-IW 
VINDICATOR II-IW 
VISION-IW 
WONDER MAN-IW 

FF 368 PG 11 PN 3 
DR. DRUID 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 

IW 3 PG 12 PN 4-PG 13 PN 2 
CA 
DR. DRUID 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
ROGUE 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
VISION 
WONDER MAN 

FF 368 PG 11 PN 4-PG 16 
CA 
COLOSSUS DOPPEL 
CYCLOPS DOPPEL 
DD 
DR DRUID 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
HUMAN TORCH DOPPEL 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MARVEL GIRL DOPPEL 
NAMORITA 
NOVA 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHE-HULK 
SILHOUETTE 
SPEEDBALL 
STORM DOPPEL 
THING 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 
WONDER MAN 

IW 3 PG 13 PN 3-PG 14 
BEAST 
CA 
DD 
ETERNITY 
GAMBIT 
HAVOK 
MOON KNIGHT 
PUCK 
QUASAR 
QUICKSILVER 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
VINDICATOR II 
WASP 
WONDER MAN 

SSWP 4 PG 10-11 
CRIPPLER 
MORTY 
QUENTINO 
SANDMAN 

DRSTR3 45 PG 1 PN 1-2 ~ IW 3 PG 15 PN 1-2 (DRSTR TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
DR. STRANGE-DRSTR3/IW 
GALACTUS-DRSTR3/IW 
NOVA II-DRSTR3/IW 
SILVER SURFER-DRSTR3/IW 

SSWP 4 PG 12-13 
SILVER SABLE 

SSWP 4 PG 14 
DR. DOOM DOPPEL 

SSWP 4 PG 15-18 
DR. DOOM DOPPEL 
SILVER SABLE 

IW 3 PG 15 PN 3-6 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

DRSTR3 45 PG 1 PN 3-4 ~ IW 3 PG 16 PN 1-2 (DRSTR TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
GALACTUS-DRSTR3/IW 

IW 3 PG 16 PN 3-PG 17 PN 3 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 3 PG 17 PN 4-PG 18 PN 3 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

FF 368 PG 17-20 
COLOSSUS DOPPEL 
CYCLOPS DOPPEL 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
HUMAN TORCH 
HUMAN TORCH DOPPEL 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MARVEL GIRL DOPPEL 
FRANKLIN RICHARDS 
STORM DOPPEL 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 

IW 3 PG 18 PN 4-PG 19 PN 2 
BLACK CAT 
BW 
HAWKEYE 
SPIDER-MAN 

MK3 41 PG 12 PN 5-PG 6 PN 1 
CA 
MOON KNIGHT 
PSYLOCKE 
SASQUATCH 
THING 

IW 3 PG 19 PN 3-PG 20 PN 1 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 3 PG 20 PN 2-PG 21 PN 2 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

IW 3 PG 21 PN 3-5 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 3 PG 22-PG 23 PN 6 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 3 PG 23 PN 7-PG 26 PN 6 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

M/CP 108/4 
DEATH 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

M/CP 109/4 
DEATH 
THANOS 

M/CP 110/4 
DEATH 
THANOS 

M/CP 111/4 
DEATH 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

WIW 8 PG 1-PG 10 PN 1 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

AF 110 PG 17-PG 19 PN 2 
AURORA 
BOX 
CYCLOPS 
NORTHSTAR 
PUCK 
SASQUATCH 
SHAMAN 
VINDICATOR II 
WILD CHILD 
WOLVERINE 

FF 368 PG 21 PN 1 
HUMAN TORCH 

IW 3 PG 26 PN 7-11 
DR. DRUID 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
SHAMAN 
SCARLET WITCH 

FF 368 PG 21 PN 2 ~ IW 3 PG 27 PN 1 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-FF/IW 
DR. DRUID-FF/IW 
AGATHA HARKNESS-FF/IW 
SHAMAN-FF/IW 
SCARLET WITCH-FF/IW 

Q 38 PG 4 PN 4-5 
QUASAR 

Q 38 PG 4 PN 6-PG 5 ~ IW 3 PG 27 PN 2-PG 29 PN 1A (Q TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
ANGEL-Q 
AURORA-Q 
CA-Q/IW 
COLOSSUS-Q/IW 
CYCLOPS-Q/IW 
DR. DRUID-Q 
AGATHA HARKNESS-Q 
HAVOK-Q/IW 
HERCULES-Q/IW 
HULK-Q/IW 
HUMAN TORCH-Q/IW 
ICEMAN-IW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-Q/IW 
LIVING LIGHTNING-Q/IW 
MARVEL GIRL-Q/IW 
NORTHSTAR-Q 
NOVA-Q/IW 
POLARIS-Q/IW 
PROF X-Q/IW 
PSYLOCKE-IW 
QUASAR-Q/IW 
ROGUE-Q/IW 
SASQUATCH-Q/IW 
SCARLET WITCH-Q 
SHAMAN-Q 
SHE-HULK-Q/IW 
STORM-Q/IW 
STRONG GUY-Q/IW 
THING-Q/IW 
THOR-Q/IW 
VINDICATOR II-Q/IW 
VISION-Q/IW 
WOLVERINE-Q/IW 
WONDER MAN-Q/IW 

Q 38 PG 6 PN 1 
QUASAR 
THING 

FF 368 PG 21 PN 2-PG 22 PN 2 
ANGEL 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DR DRUID 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
ICEMAN 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
LIVING LIGHTNING 
MARVEL GIRL 
NOVA 
POLARIS 
PROFESSOR X 
PSYLOCKE 
QUASAR 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
SHE-HULK 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
THOR 
VINDICATOR II 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 13 PG 21 PN 6-PG 22 (END) 
ALPHA FLIGHT MEMBER WITH FACEPLATE 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
MARVEL GIRL 
NOVA 
QUASAR 
PSYLOCKE 
PUCK 
ROGUE 
SHE-HULK 
STORM 
THING 
WARPATH 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

Q 38 PG 6 PN 2 
CA 
HULK 
QUASAR 
SCARLET WITCH 
THING 
THOR 

FF 368 PG 22 PN 3 ~ IW 3 PG 29 PN 1B (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-FF/IW 
COLOSSUS-FF 
CYCLOPS-FF 
DR. DRUID-FF/IW 
AGATHA HARKNESS-FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF 
PROF X-FF 
QUASAR-FF/IW 
SCARLET WITCH-FF/IW 
SHAMAN-FF 
STORM-FF 
THING-FF 
WOLVERINE-FF 
WONDER MAN-FF 

Q 38 PG 6 PN 3-4 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DR. DRUID 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
PROF X 
QUASAR 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
THOR 
WOLVERINE 

WIW 8 PG 10 PN 2-PG11 PN 1 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 3 PG 29 PN 2-4 
CA 
DR DRUID 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
PROF X 
QUASAR 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
SPEEDBALL 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
THOR 
WOLVERINE 

IW 3 PG 30 PN 1 ~ MK3 41 PG 13 PN 2 
ANGEL-IW/MK 
CA-IW 
COLOSSUS-IW 
CYCLOPS-IW 
DR DRUID-IW 
AGATHA HARKNESS-IW 
HAVOK-IW 
HERCULES-IW 
HULK-IW 
HUMAN TORCH-IW/MK 
ICEMAN-IW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW 
LIVING LIGHTNING-IW 
MARVEL GIRL-IW 
NOVA-IW/MK 
POLARIS-IW 
PROF X-IW 
PSYLOCKE-IW/MK 
QUASAR-IW 
ROGUE-IW/MK 
SASQUATCH-IW 
SCARLET WITCH-IW 
SHAMAN-IW 
SHE-HULK-IW 
STORM-IW 
STRONG GUY-IW/MK 
THING-IW 
THOR-IW/MK 
VINDICATOR II-IW 
VISION-IW 
WOLVERINE-IW/MK 
WONDER MAN-IW/MK 

IW 3 PG 30 PN 2 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 3 PG 30 PN 3-PG 32 
ETERNITY 
LIVING TRIBUNAL 

IW 3 PG 33 PN 1-2 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

MK3 41 PG 13 PN 3-PG 14 
GAMBIT 
ALICIA MASTERS 
MOON KNIGHT 
USAGENT 

DRSTR3 45 PG 2-PG 22 PN 1 
DEATH 
DR. STRANGE 

IW 3 PG 33 PN 3-PG 35 
AURORA 
BEAST 
BEAST DOPPEL 
BK 
BLACK KNIGHT DOPPEL 
CRYSTAL 
DD 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
DARKHAWK 
DARKHAWK DOPPEL 
FIRESTAR 
FORGE 
GAMBIT 
GAMBIT DOPPEL 
MOON KNIGHT 
MOON KNIGHT DOPPEL 
MULTIPLE MAN 
MULTIPLE MAN DOPPEL 
NAMORITA 
NAMORITA DOPPEL 
NORTHSTAR 
NORTHSTAR DOPPEL 
PUCK 
PUCK DOPPEL 
QUICKSILVER 
QUICKSILVER DOPPEL 
SPEEDBALL 
SPEEDBALL DOPPEL 
SPIDER-WOMAN 
SPIDER-WOMAN DOPPEL 
USAGENT 
USAGENT DOPPEL 
WASP 
WILD CHILD 
WOLFSBANE 
WOLFSBANE DOPPEL 

IW 3 PG 36 PN 1 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

WIW 8 PG 11 PN 2-PG 20 PN 1A (WARLOCK & PIPS DIALOG) 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 3 PG 36 PN 2 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
MAGUS 
MOONDRAGON 
THANOS 

IW 3 PG 36 PN 3-PG 37 ~ WIW 8 PG 20 PN 1B (THANOS DIALOG)-PG 22A (THANOS DIALOG) 
DRAX-BOTH 
GAMORA-BOTH 
MOONDRAGON-BOTH 
PIP-BOTH 
THANOS-BOTH 
WARLOCK-BOTH 

IW 3 PG 38-39 ~ Q 38 PG 9-10 ~ WIW 8 PG 21&22B (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
ANGEL-IW/Q/WIW 
CA-IW/Q/WIW 
COLOSSUS-IW/WIW 
CYCLOPS-IW/Q/WIW 
DRAX-IW/Q/WIW 
DR. DRUID-IW/WIW 
GAMORA-IW/Q/WIW 
AGATHA HARKNESS-IW/WIW 
HAVOK-IW/WIW 
HERCULES-IW/Q/WIW 
HULK-IW/Q/WIW 
HUMAN TORCH-IW/Q/WIW 
ICEMAN-IW/WIW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW/Q/WIW 
LIVING LIGHTNING-IW/Q 
MARVEL GIRL-IW/WIW 
MOONDRAGON-IW/Q/WIW 
NOVA-IW/Q/WIW 
PIP-IW/Q/WIW 
POLARIS-IW/WIW 
PROF X-IW/WIW 
PSYLOCKE-IW/WIW 
QUASAR-IW/Q/WIW 
ROGUE-IW/Q/WIW 
SASQUATCH-IW/Q/WIW 
SCARLET WITCH-IW/WIW 
SHAMAN-IW/WIW 
SHE-HULK-IW/Q/WIW 
STORM-IW/Q/WIW 
STRONG GUY-IW/Q/WIW 
THANOS-IW/Q/WIW 
THING-IW/Q/WIW 
THOR-IW/Q 
VINDICATOR II-IW/WIW 
VISION-IW/WIW 
WARLOCK-IW/Q/WIW 
WOLVERINE-IW/Q/WIW 
WONDER MAN-Q/WIW 

IW 3 PG 40 PN 1 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

IW 3 PG 40 PN 2 (END) 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 





*** 

IW 4 PG 1 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

Q 38 PG 11-15 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
ICEMAN 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
PROF X 
QUASAR 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SHE-HULK 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR 
WARLOCK 
WARPATH 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 2-3 
BEAST 
BEAST DOPPEL 
BK 
BLACK KNIGHT DOPPEL-BTS 
DD 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
DARKHAWK 
DARKHAWK DOPPEL 
FIRESTAR 
FIRESTAR DOPPEL 
GAMBIT 
GAMBIT DOPPEL 
MOON KNIGHT 
MOON KNIGHT DOPPEL 
MULTIPLE MAN 
MULTIPLE MAN DOPPEL 
NAMORITA 
NAMORITA DOPPEL 
PUCK 
PUCK DOPPEL 
QUICKSILVER 
QUICKSILVER DOPPEL 
USAGENT 
USAGENT DOPPEL 
WOLFSBANE 
WOLFSBANE DOPPEL 

Q 38 PG 16 PN 1-PG 17 PN 2 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HULK 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
PSYLOCKE 
QUASAR 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR 
WARLOCK 

FF 369 PG 1 
CYCLOPS-BTS 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
QUASAR 
THING 

IW 4 PG 4-5 
ANGEL 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
MOONDRAGON 
NOVA 
PIP 
POLARIS 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 
QUASAR 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
SHE-HULK 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

FF 369 PG 2-PG 3 PN 2 
ANGEL 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MOONDRAGON 
NOVA 
PIP 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 
ROGUE 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHE-HULK 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 6 PN 1 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

SSWP 4 PG 19-21 
BATTLESTAR 
CHEN 
CRIPPLER 
POWELL 
QUENTINO 
SANDMAN 
SANDMAN DOPPEL 

SSWP 4 PG 22 
DR. DOOM DOPPEL 
SILVER SABLE 

SSWP 5 PG 1-3 
DR. DOOM DOPPEL 
SILVER SABLE 

IW 4 PG 6 PN 2-4 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

IW 4 PG 6 PN 5 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 4 PG 7 ~ DRSTR3 45 PG 22 PN 2-5 (END) (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
DR. STRANGE-IW/DRSTR3 
GALACTUS-IW/DRSTR3 
NOVA II-IW/DRSTR3 
SILVER SURFER-IW/DRSTR3 

IW 4 PG 8 PN 1-3 
GALACTUS 
NOVA II 
SILVER SURFER 

AF 111 PG 6-PG 10 PN 1 
ANGEL 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
DR. DRUID 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
PROF X 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
SHE-HULK 
THANOS 
THING 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 

AF 111 PG 16 
MAGUS 

AF 111 PG 17-20 
AURORA 
AURORA DOPPEL 
BEAST 
BOX-BTS 
DD DOPPEL 
NORTHSTAR 
PUCK 
PUCK DOPPEL 
THING DOPPEL 
TRITON DOPPEL 
WILD CHILD 
WILD CHILD DOPPEL 

IW 4 PG 8 PN 4-PG 9 
BEAST 
DARKHAWK 
DR. PYM 
FIRESTAR DOPPEL 
GAMBIT DOPPEL 
MOON KNIGHT 
MULTIPLE MAN DOPPEL 
QUICKSILVER 
WOLFSBANE DOPPEL 

MK3 41 PG 15-22 (END) 
DARKHAWK 
GAMBIT 
ALICIA MASTERS 
MOON KNIGHT 
MOON KNIGHT DOPPEL 
NAMORITA DOPPEL 
NOVA DOPPEL 
FRANKLIN RICHARDS DOPPEL 
USAGENT 

MK3 42 
MOON KNIGHT 
MOON KNIGHT DOPPEL 

SSWP 4 PG 4-6 
BATTLESTAR 
CHEN 
CRIPPLER 
POWELL 
QUENTINO 
SANDMAN DOPPEL 

MK3 43 PG 1-12 
BEAST 
BEAST DOPPEL 
BK 
BLACK KNIGHT DOPPEL 
DD 
DARKHAWK DOPPEL 
GAMBIT 
MOON KNIGHT 
NAMORITA 
NAMORITA DOPPEL 
POLARIS DOPPEL 
PUCK 
SPEEDBALL 
SPIDER-WOMAN 
SPIDER-WOMAN DOPPEL 

IW 4 PG 10 
COLOSSUS 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
HERCULES 
HUMAN TORCH 
MOONDRAGON 
NOVA 
PSYLOCKE 
ROGUE 
SHE-HULK 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR 
WARLOCK 

WM2 14 PG 1-PG 3 PN 4 
COLOSSUS 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
HULK 
POLARIS 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 11 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
HAVOK 
HULK 
ICEMAN 
PIP 
STRONG GUY 
VINDICATOR II 
WOLVERINE 

WM2 14 PG 3 PN 5-PG 4 PN 1 
POLARIS 
WARLOCK 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 12 PN 1 
DRAX 
HERCULES 
HULK 
POLARIS 
STORM 
WARLOCK 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 14 PG 4 PN 2 
WARLOCK 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 12 PN 2-4A 
GAMORA 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
STRONG GUY 
VINDICATOR II 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 14 PG 4 PN 3-PG 5 PN 4 
STORM 
THANOS 
THOR 
WARLOCK 
WONDER MAN 

Q 38 PG 17 PN 3-PG 21 (END) 
ANGEL 
HULK 
QUASAR 
THING 
VINDICATOR II 
WARLOCK 

IW 4 PG 12 PN 4B ~ FF 369 PG 3 PN 3 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
HUMAN TORCH-FF 
ICEMAN-FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW/FF 
MARVEL GIRL-FF 
MOONDRAGON-IW/FF 
PIP-IW 
VINDICATOR II-IW 
WARLOCK-FF 
WOLVERINE-IW 

IW 4 PG 13 PN 1 
STORM 
THANOS 
THOR 
WARLOCK 

IW 4 PG 13 PN 2 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

MK3 43 PG 13-PG 14 PN 1 
BLACK KNIGHT DOPPEL 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
DARKHAWK DOPPEL 
MOON KNIGHT 

IW 4 PG 13 PN 3 ~ MK3 43 PG 14 PN 2 
BEAST-IW 
BK-IW/MK 
DD-IW 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL-IW/MK 
GAMBIT-IW/MK 
MULTIPLE MAN DOPPEL-IW/MK 
SPEEDBALL-IW/MK 
SPEEDBALL DOPPEL-IW/MK 

IW 4 PG 13 PN 4 
BEAST 
BK 
DD 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
SPEEDBALL-BTS 
SPEEDBALL DOPPEL 

IW 4 PG 14 PN 1-2 ~ MK3 43 PG 14 PN 3-4 
DD DOPPEL-IW 
MULTIPLE MAN-IW/MK 
MULTIPLE MAN DOPPEL-IW/MK 
NAMORITA DOPPEL-MK 
PUCK-IW/MK 

MK3 43 PG 15-19 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
MOON KNIGHT 
NAMORITA DOPPEL 
SPIDER-WOMAN DOPPEL 

IW 4 PG 14 PN 3-PG 16 PN 1 ~ SSWP 4 PG 7 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

IW 4 PG 16 PN 2-6 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

WM2 14 PG 5 PN 5-PG 6 
DR. DRUID 
GAMORA 
SCARLET WITCH 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 17 PN 1 ~ WM2 PG 7 PN 1 ~ FF 369 PG 4 PN 1 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CYCLOPS-IW/WM 
DRAX-IW/WM/FF 
HERCULES-IW/WM2/FF 
HULK-IW/WM/FF 
HUMAN TORCH-FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW/WM/FF 
SHE-HULK-IW/WM 
STRONG GUY-IW/WM/FF 
THANOS-IW/WM/FF 
THING-IW/WM/FF 
THOR-IW/WM/FF 
VINDICATOR II-IW/WM/FF 
WARLOCK-IW/WM/FF 
WONDER MAN-WM 

IW 4 PG 17 PN 2 ~ FF 369 PG 4 PN 2 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
MAGUS-IW/FF 
THANOS DOPPEL-IW/FF 

FF 369 PG 4 PN 3-4 
CYCLOPS 
SHE-HULK 
THING 

IW 4 PG 17 PN 3 ~ WM2 14 PG 7 PN 2 

IW 4 PG 18 PN 1 ~ FF 369 PG 5 PN 1 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
DR. STRANGE-IW/FF 
GALACTUS-IW/FF 
NOVA II-IW/FF 
SILVER SURFER-IW/FF 

FF 369 PG 5 PN 2 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
THING 

IW 4 PG 18 PN 2 ~ FF 369 PG 5 PN 3 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
GALACTUS-IW/FF 

WM2 14 PG 7 PN 3 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 18 PN 4 ~ FF 369 PG 5 PN 4 ~ WM2 14 PG 7 PN 4 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-IW/FF 
COLOSSUS-IW/FF 
GAMORA-IW/FF 
HULK-IW/FF 
HUMAN TORCH-IW/FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF 
LIVING LIGHTNING-FF 
MARVEL GIRL-IW/WM 
MOONDRAGON-IW/FF/WM 
NOVA-IW/FF/WM 
PROF X-FF 
QUASAR-IW/FF 
SASQUATCH-IW/WM 
SCARLET WITCH-IW 
SHE-HULK-IW/FF 
STORM-IW 
STRONG GUY-IW 
THANOS-IW/FF 
THING-IW/FF 
THOR-IW/FF/WM 
VINDICATOR II-IW 
WARLOCK-IW/FF 
WOLVERINE-IW/FF 
WONDER MAN-IW/FF/WM 

IW 4 PG 19 PN 1 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

FF 369 PG 6 PN 1-2 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

SSWP 5 PG 8-PG 10 PN 2 
DR. DOOM DOPPEL 
SILVER SABLE 

SSWP 5 PG 10 PN 3-PG 13 
BATTLESTAR 
CHEN 
CRIPPLER 
POWELL 
QUENTINO 
SANDMAN DOPPEL 

SSWP 5 PG 14-15 
DR. DOOM DOPPEL 
SILVER SABLE 

SSWP 5 PG 16-17 
BATTLESTAR 
CHEN 
CRIPPLER 
POWELL 
QUENTINO 

IW 4 PG 19 PN 2-PG 20 PN 2 ~ SSWP 5 PG 18 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 

SSWP 5 PG 19-22 
BATTLESTAR 
CHEN 
CRIPPLER 
DR. DOOM DOPPEL 
POWELL 
QUENTINO 
SANDMAN 
SILVER SABLE 

MK3 43 PG 20 
BEAST DOPPEL 
MOON KNIGHT 
MULTIPLE MAN DOPPEL 
NAMORITA DOPPEL 
SPEEDBALL 
SPIDER-WOMAN DOPPEL 

IW 4 PG 20 PN 3-6 
CA 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
NOVA II 
SILVER SURFER 
THANOS 
THOR 
WARLOCK 

WM2 14 PG 11 PN 1 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
GALACTUS 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
NOVA 
MARVEL GIRL 
SASQUATCH 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

MK3 43 PG 21 PN 1 
CRYSTAL 
GAMBIT 
MOON KNIGHT 
USAGENT 

IW 4 PG 21 PN 1 ~ MK3 43 PG 21 PN 2 
BEAST-IW/MK 
BK-IW 
CRYSTAL-IW/MK 
FIRESTAR-IW 
GAMBIT-IW/MK 
MOON KNIGHT-MK 
MULTIPLE MAN-IW 
NAMORITA-IW/MK 
PUCK-IW 
SPEEDBALL-IW/MK 
USAGENT-IW/MK 
WASP-IW 
WILD CHILD-IW 
WOLFSBANE-IW 

FF 369 PG 8 PN 1 ~ WM2 14 PG 11 PN 2 ~ IW PG 21 PN 2 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-FF/IW 
CYCLOPS-FF 
DR. STRANGE-FF/IW 
GALACTUS-FF/WM/IW 
HULK-FF 
NOVA II-FF/IW 
SASQUATCH-IW 
SHE-HULK-FF 
SILVER SURFER-FF/IW 
STRONG GUY-FF/IW 
THANOS-FF/IW 
THING-FF 
THOR-FF/IW 
WARLOCK-IW 
WOLVERINE-IW 
WONDER MAN-IW 

WM2 14 PG 11 PN 3 ~ IW 4 PG 21 PN 3 (WM TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
GALACTUS 

FF 369 PG 8 PN 2-3 
CA 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
NOVA 
SHE-HULK 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 

IW 4 PG 21 PN 4-PG 22 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
DRAX 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
HAVOK 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
ICEMAN 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
LIVING LIGHTNING 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
NOVA 
PIP 
POLARIS 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 
QUASAR 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SHAMAN 
SHE-HULK 
SILVER SURFER 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 14 PG 11 PN 4-PG 14 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
WONDER MAN 

FF 369 PG 8 PN 4-PG 12 PN 3 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MALICE 

IW 4 PG 23 PN 1 ~ WM2 14 PG 15 PN 1 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-IW 
COLOSSUS-IW 
DR. STRANGE-IW 
DRAX-WM 
GALACTUS-IW/WM 
HULK-IW 
MARVEL GIRL-IW 
NOVA-IW 
PSYLOCKE-IW 
ROGUE-IW/WM 
SHAMAN-IW 
SILVER SURFER-IW 
STRONG GUY-IW 
THANOS-IW/WM 
THING-WM 
THOR-IW/WM 
VISION-IW 
WARLOCK-IW/WM 
WOLVERINE-WM 

WM2 14 PG 15 PN 2-PG 16 PN 5 
HERCULES 
HUMAN TORCH 
THING 
THOR 
WONDER MAN 

FF 369 PG 12 PN 4-5 
CYCLOPS 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
QUASAR 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
THOR 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 

IW 4 PG 23 PN 2-PG 24 PN 2 
DR. STRANGE 
COLOSSUS 
GALACTUS 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
NOVA II 
POLARIS 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SILVER SURFER 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR 
VISION 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 

WM2 14 PG 16 PN 6 ~ IW 4 PG 24 PN 3 (WM TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
GALACTUS-WM/IW 
HUMAN TORCH-IW 
THING-WM/IW 
THOR-WM/IW 
WONDER MAN-WM 

IW 4 PG 24 PN 4 
GALACTUS 
HUMAN TORCH 
THING 
THOR 

FF 369 PG 13 PN 1-2 
UATU 

FF 369 PG 13 PN 6 
UATU 

WM2 14 PG 17-18 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
NOVA 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
VISION 
WONDER MAN 

FF 369 PG 14 
HUMAN TORCH 
PSYLOCKE 

IW 4 PG 24 PN 5-PG 26 PN 1 
GAMORA 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL 
WARLOCK 

IW 4 PG 26 PN 2 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

MK3 43 PG 22 (END) 
BEAST 
CRYSTAL 
DR. PYM-BTS 
GAMBIT 
MOON KNIGHT 
NAMORITA 
SPEEDBALL 
SPIDER-WOMAN 

MK3 44 PG 1 PN 1 
MOON KNIGHT 
NAMORITA 
SPEEDBALL 
USAGENT 

IW 4 PG 26 PN 3-PG 27 
THOR 
UATU 

IW 4 PG 28 PN 1 
BEAST 
BK 
DR. PYM 
MOON KNIGHT 
MULTIPLE MAN 
NAMORITA 
SPEEDBALL 
USAGENT 

IW 4 PG 28 PN 2 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 4 PG 28 PN 3-PG 30 PN 2 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
THING 
VISION 
WARLOCK 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 30 PN 3 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 4 PG 30 PN 4-PG 32 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
NOVA 
PIP 
POLARIS 
PROF X 
QUASAR 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
SHE-HULK 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 

FF 369 PG 15 PN 1-2 
CA 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
NOVA 
PIP 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
THANOS 
THING 
VINDICATOR II 
WARLOCK 

IW 4 PG 33 PN 1 
CA 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
HERCULES 
GAMORA 

FF 369 PG 15 PN 3 
HUMAN TORCH 
PIP 
THING 
WARLOCK 

FF 369 PG 15 PN 4 ~ IW 4 PG 33 PN 2 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
HUMAN TORCH-FF/IW 
PSYLOCKE-IW 
SCARLET WITCH-IW 
THANOS-FF/IW 
THING-FF/IW 
VISION-IW 
WARLOCK-FF/IW 

IW 4 PG 33 PN 3 ~ FF 369 PG 16 PN 1 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
COLOSSUS-FF 
HUMAN TORCH-FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF 
MAGUS-IW/FF 
NOVA-IW 
PSYLOCKE-IW 
ROGUE-IW 
THANOS-IW/FF 
THANOS DOPPEL-IW/FF 
THING-FF 
WARLOCK-IW/FF 
WONDER MAN-IW/FF 

WM2 14 PG 21 PN 1 
THING 
WONDER MAN 

FF 369 PG 16 PN 2 
THANOS 
THING 

IW 4 PG 34 PN 1 
THANOS 

IW 4 PG 34 PN 2 ~ FF 369 PG 16 PN 3 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
HAVOK-IW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW 
THANOS-IW/FF 
THING-IW/FF 
WOLVERINE-IW 

IW 4 PG 34 PN 3 
CYCLOPS 
HERCULES 
ICEMAN 
PSYLOCKE 
THANOS 
THING 
WONDER MAN 

FF 369 PG 16 PN 4 
CYCLOPS 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
THANOS 
THING 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 34 PN 4 ~ WM2 14 PG 21 PN 2 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
ANGEL-IW 
CA-IW/WM 
CYCLOPS-IW/WM 
DRAX-WM 
HULK-IW/WM 
MARVEL GIRL-WM 
PROF X-IW/WM 
ROGUE-WM 
SCARLET WITCH-IW/WM 
STORM-IW 
THANOS-IW 
VISION-IW 
WONDER MAN-WM 

IW 4 PG 34 PN 5-PG 35 PN 1 
CA 
HULK 
THANOS 

WM2 14 PG 21 PN 3-4 
CA 
THANOS 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 35 PN 2-PG 36 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MOONDRAGON 
NOVA 
NOVA II 
PIP 
PROF X 
SILVER SURFER 
THANOS 
VINDICATOR II 
WOLVERINE 

WM2 14 PG 21 PN 5-PG 22 PN 1 
SCARLET WITCH 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 37 PN 1 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 
WARLOCK 

IW 4 PG 37 PN 2-PG 38 PN 1 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
NOVA II 
PSYLOCKE 
THANOS 
THING 
VINDICATOR II 

WM2 14 PG 22 PN 2-4 (END) 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
DR. DRUID 
GAMBIT (CANNOT APPEAR HERE; HES ON EARTH) 
HERCULES 
HULK 
NOVA 
PSYLOCKE 
QUASAR 
ROGUE 
SCARLET WITCH 
THANOS 
THING 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 4 PG 38 PN 2-7 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
NOVA 
POLARIS 
QUASAR 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

Q 39 PG 1 ~ IW 4 PG 39 PN 1 (Q TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-Q/IW 
CYCLOPS-IW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-Q/IW 
MARVEL GIRL-Q/IW 
NOVA II-IW 
QUASAR-Q/IW 
STORM-Q 
THANOS-Q/IW 
THING-Q/IW 
WOLVERINE-Q/IW 
WONDER MAN-Q/IW 

IW 4 PG 39 PN 2-3 
QUASAR 
THANOS 

Q 39 PG 2 PN 1 ~ IW 4 PG 39 PN 4 (Q TAKES PRECEDENCE 
QUASAR-Q/IW 
THANOS-Q/IW 

Q 39 PG 2 PN 2-7 ~ IW 4 PG 39 PN 5 (Q TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
ANGEL-Q 
CA-Q/IW 
CYCLOPS-IW 
HERCULES-Q/IW 
HULK-Q/IW 
HUMAN TORCH-Q/IW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-Q/IW 
MOONDRAGON-Q 
NOVA II-IW 
QUASAR-Q/IW 
SASQUATCH-IW 
SHE-HULK-Q/IW 
STORM-Q 
STRONG GUY-IW 
THANOS-Q/IW 
THING-Q/IW 
THOR-Q (CANNOT BE HERE; HES ON THE MOON WITH UATU) 
VISION-Q/IW 
WOLVERINE-Q/IW 

Q 39 PG 2 PN 8 
CA 

IW 4 PG 40 (END) 
ETERNITY 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
LIVING TRIBUNAL 

SLEEP 17 PG 21-22 
JANINE 
MARVEL GIRL-BTS 
MOONDRAGON-BTS 
PROFESSOR X-BTS 
PSYLOCKE-BTS 
SLEEPWALKER 

SLEEP 18 PG 1- PG 6 PN 2 
JANINE 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
PROFESSOR X 
PSYLOCKE 
SLEEPWALKER 

IW 5 PG 1-PG 2 PN 1 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
HERCULES 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
QUASAR 
THANOS 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 

Q 39 PG 2 PN 9-PG 4 
ANGEL 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
EPOCH 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
ICEMAN 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MARVEL GIRL 
NOVA 
PROF X 
QUASAR 
ROGUE 
SHE-HULK 
STORM 
THING 
THOR (CANNOT BE HERE; HES ON THE MOON WITH UATU) 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

SLEEP 18 PG 6 PN 2-3 ~ IW 5 PG 2 PN 2-5 (SLEEP TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CHARLIE 27-IW 
MAJOR ASTRO-IW 
NIKKI-IW 
SLEEPWALKER-SLEEP/IW 
DEATHLOK-IW 

Q 39 PG 6-10 
DEATHURGE 
EPOCH 
QUASAR 

NOM2 7 
NOMAD 
GAMBIT DOPPEL 

IW 5 PG 2 PN 6-PG 4 PN 1 
THOR 
UATU 

SLEEP 18 PG 7-8 
BEAST DOPPEL 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
FIRESTAR DOPPEL 

Q 39 PG 13-16 
DEATHURGE 
QUASAR 

IW 5 PG 4 PN 2-PG 5 PN 3 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 
WARLOCK 

SLEEP 18 PG 9-12 
BEAST DOPPEL 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
FIRESTAR DOPPEL 
SLEEPWALKER 

SLEEP 18 PG 13 PN 1-3 
JANINE 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
PROFESSOR X 
PSYLOCKE 

SLEEP 18 PG 13 PN 4-PG 14 
BEAST DOPPEL 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
FIRESTAR DOPPEL 
SLEEPWALKER 

SLEEP 18 PG 15-22 (END) 
BEAST DOPPEL 
DAREDEVIL DOPPEL 
FIRESTAR DOPPEL 
JANINE 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
PROFESSOR X 
PSYLOCKE 
SLEEPWALKER 

Q 39 PG 19 PN 6-PG 21 
DEATHURGE 
EPOCH 
QUASAR 

Q 39 PG 22 PN 1-3 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
ICEMAN 
SHE-HULK 
STORM 
THING 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 

Q 39 PG 22 PN 4 (END) 
QUASAR 

IW 5 PG 5 PN 4-PG 7 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
NOVA 
NOVA II 
POLARIS 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 
QUASAR 
THANOS 
THING 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 5 PG 8 PN 1-6 
QUASAR 

IW 5 PG 8 PN 7-PG 9 
CA 
DRAX 
HERCULES 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
NOVA II 
SHE-HULK 
THANOS 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WONDER MAN 

IW 5 PG 10-PG 12 PN 1 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 
MAGUS 
THANOS DOPPEL 
WARLOCK 

WIW 9 PG 1 PN 1 
GALACTUS 

IW 5 PG 12 PN 2 
ETERNITY 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
LIVING TRIBUNAL 

WIW 9 PG 1 PN 2 
ETERNITY 
LIVING TRIBUNAL 

IW 5 PG 13 
ETERNITY 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
LIVING TRIBUNAL 

IW 5 PG 14 ~ WIW 9 PG 1 PN 4-PG 2 PN 1 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
ETERNITY 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
LIVING TRIBUNAL 
NECROMANCER-BTS 

WIW 9 PG 2 PN 2-PG 5 PN 2 
ETERNITY-BTS 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 

WIW 9 PG 5 PN 3 
ETERNITY 
GALACTUS 
LIVING TRIBUNAL 

IW 5 PG 15-PG 18 PN 4 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

IW 5 PG 18 PN 5-PG 19 PN 1 
QUASAR 

IW 5 PG 19 PN 2-PG 20 PN 2 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

Q 40 PG 1-PG 2 PN 2 
QUASAR 

IW 5 PG 20 PN 3-PG 21 PN 2 
DR. DOOM 
MAGUS 

IW 5 PG 21 PN 3 
QUASAR 

Q 40 PG 2 PN 3-5 
QUASAR 

IW 5 PG 22 PN 1-4 
QUASAR 

IW 5 PG 22 PN 5 
DR. DOOM 
MAGUS 

WIW 9 PG 5 PN 4-PG 20 
ETERNITY 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
INFINITY 

IW 5 PG 22 PN 6-PG 23 PN 2 ~ WIW 9 PG 21 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
ETERNITY-BOTH 
GALACTUS-BOTH 
GAMORA-BOTH 
LIVING TRIBUNAL-BOTH 
NECROMANCER-BTS-BOTH 

IW 5 PG 23 PN 3-6 
ETERNITY 

IW 5 PG 24-PG 26 PN 4 
DR. DOOM 
KANG 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

WIW 9 PG 22 
ETERNITY 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
LIVING TRIBUNAL 

IW 5 PG 26 PN 5-PG 28 PN 2 
ETERNITY 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
LIVING TRIBUNAL 

IW 5 PG 28 PN 3-PG 29 
DR. DOOM 
MAGUS 

IW 5 PG 30 PN 1-2 
QUASAR 

Q 40 PG 2 PN 6-PG 3 PN 5 
QUASAR 

IW 5 PG 30 PN 3 
QUASAR 

IW 5 PG 30 PN 4-PG 32 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

DRSTR3 46 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
EBONY 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
NECROMANCER 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
SLEEPWALKER 

Q 40 PG 13-14 
ANGEL 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
HERCULES 
HUMAN TORCH 
MARVEL GIRL 
SHE-HULK 
THANOS 
THING 
THOR (CANT BE HERE; HES ON THE MOON WITH UATU) 
VISION 

IW 5 PG 33 PN 1-3 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
DRAX 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
NOVA II 
PIP 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH (CANT BE HERE; SHES WITH DR. STRANGE) 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 

FF 369 PG 18-PG 20 PN 1 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
DR. STRANGE (CANNOT APPEAR HERE; HES BACK ON EARTH) 
DRAX 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
LIVING LIGHTNING 
MOONDRAGON 
NOVA 
NOVA II 
PIP 
POLARIS 
PSYLOCKE 
QUASAR (CANNOT APPEAR HERE; HES BEEN NULLIFIED) 
ROGUE 
SASQUATCH 
SCARLET WITCH (CANNOT BE HERE; SEE DR. STRANGE) 
SHAMAN (CANNOT BE HERE; SEE DR STRANGE) 
SHE-HULK 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 5 PG 33 PN 4-PG 34 PN 1 ~ FF 369 PG 20 PN 2 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-IW/FF 
DR. DRUID-FF (CANNOT BE HERE; HES WITH DR. STRANGE?) 
DRAX-IW 
HUMAN TORCH-IW/FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF 
PIP-IW 
STRONG GUY-FF 
THANOS-IW/FF 
THING-FF 
VINDICATOR II-IW 
VISION-IW 

IW 5 PG 34 PN 2 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
HERCULES 
ICEMAN 
NOVA 
ROGUE 
STORM 
THING 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

IW 5 PG 34 PN 3 ~ FF 369 PG 20 PN 3 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-IW/FF 
COLOSSUS-IW/FF 
HULK-IW 
ICEMAN-IW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF 
NOVA-FF 
POLARIS-IW 
THANOS-IW/FF 
THING-FF 

IW 5 PG 34 PN 4 ~ FF 369 PG 20 PN 4 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
ANGEL-IW 
CA-IW/FF 
CA DOPPEL-IW/FF 
COLOSSUS-IW/FF 
COLOSSUS DOPPEL-IW/FF 
HERCULES DOPPEL-IW 
HULK-IW/FF 
HULK DOPPEL-IW/FF 
HUMAN TORCH-IW/FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF 
SASQUATCH-IW 
SASQUATCH DOPPEL-IW/FF 
SHE-HULK-IW 
SILVER SURFER-IW/FF 
STORM-IW/FF 
STORM DOPPEL-FF 
STRONG GUY-IW 
THING-IW/FF 
THING DOPPEL-FF 
VINDICATOR II-IW 
VISION-IW 
WOLVERINE-IW/FF 
WONDER MAN-IW 

WM2 15 PG 1-PG 5 PN 3 
CA DOPPEL 
COLOSSUS DOPPEL 
CYCLOPS 
CYCLOPS DOPPEL 
DRAX 
HAVOK 
HUMAN TORCH DOPPEL 
HERCULES DOPPEL 
HULK DOPPEL 
ICEMAN 
NOVA 
NOVA DOPPEL 
POLARIS 
ROGUE 
ROGUE DOPPEL 
SASQUATCH 
SASQUATCH DOPPEL 
STORM 
STRONG GUY 
STRONG GUY DOPPEL 
THING DOPPEL 
THOR DOPPEL 
VISION DOPPEL 
WOLVERINE 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 
WONDER MAN 

IW 5 PG 35-36 ~ FF 369 PG 21 PN 1 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-IW/FF 
CA DOPPEL-IW/FF 
COLOSSUS-IW 
COLOSSUS DOPPEL-IW/FF 
CYCLOPS-IW/FF 
CYCLOPS DOPPEL-IW/FF 
HAVOK-IW 
HERCULES-IW 
HERCULES DOPPEL-IW 
HULK-FF 
HUMAN TORCH-FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW/FF 
MARVEL GIRL-FF 
PIP-IW 
PSYLOCKE-FF (CANNOT BE HERE; SHES WITH PROF X) 
ROGUE-IW/FF 
ROGUE DOPPEL-IW 
SASQUATCH-IW 
SHE-HULK-IW/FF 
SHE-HULK DOPPEL-IW 
SILVER SURFER-IW/FF 
STORM-IW 
STORM DOPPEL-FF 
THING-IW/FF 
THING DOPPEL-IW 
VINDICATOR II-IW/FF 
VISION-IW 
VISION DOPPEL-FF 
WOLVERINE-IW/FF 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL-IW/FF 
WONDER MAN-IW/FF 

WM2 15 PG 5 PN 4-PG 10 PN 2 
ANGEL 
COLOSSUS DOPPEL 
CYCLOPS DOPPEL 
DRAX 
HAVOK 
HERCULES 
HERCULES DOPPEL 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
HUMAN TORCH DOPPEL 
NOVA DOPPEL 
ROGUE DOPPEL 
STRONG GUY DOPPEL 
SASQUATCH DOPPEL 
THING 
THOR DOPPEL 
VINDICATOR DOPPEL 
VISION DOPPEL 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 
WONDER MAN 

FF 369 PG 22 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 5 PG 37-39 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 5 PG 40 (END) 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

FF 370 PG 1-PG 2 PN 3 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

WIW 10 PG 1-10 
MAGUS 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL 
WARLOCK 

WIW 10 PG 11 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

IW 6 PG 1-4 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

FF 370 PG 2 PN 4-PG 3 
ANGEL DOPPEL 
CYCLOPS 
HERCULES 
HULK DOPPEL 
HUMAN TORCH 
MOONDRAGON DOPPEL 
ROGUE 
SCARLET WITCH DOPPEL 
STORM DOPPEL 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
THOR DOPPEL 
VINDICATOR DOPPEL 

DRSTR3 47 PG 1-PG 12 PN 2 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
DR. STRANGE DOPPEL-FB 
ETERNITY-FB 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
NECROMANCER-ALSO FB 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 
SHAZANA-FB 

IW 6 PG 5 PN 1 ~ DRSTR3 47 PG 12 PN3 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
DR. DRUID-IW/DRSTR3 
DR. STRANGE-IW/DRSTR3 
AGATHA HARKNESS-IW/DRSTR3 
SCARLET WITCH-IW/DRSTR3 
SHAMAN-IW/DRSTR3 

DRSTR3 47 PG 12 PN 4-PG 20 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
DR. STRANGE DOPPEL 
EBONY 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
NECROMANCER 
RINTRAH DOPPEL 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 

FF 370 PG 4 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 6 PG 5 PN 2 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 

FF 370 PG 5-6 
CA DOPPEL 
COLOSSUS DOPPEL 
HERCULES 
HULK DOPPEL 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN DOPPEL 
QUASAR DOPPEL 
SASQUATCH DOPPEL 
STORM DOPPEL 
THING 
THOR DOPPEL 

DRSTR3 47 PG 21-22 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
EBONY 
AGATHA HARKNESS 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHAMAN 

IW 6 PG 5 PN 3-PG 7 PN 3 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
MARVEL GIRL 
MOONDRAGON 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 
SHAMAN 
THOR 
UATU 

IW 6 PG 7 PN 4 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

FF 370 PG 7-8 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

WIW 10 PG 12-22 
THANOS 
THANOS DOPPEL 

IW 6 PG 8 PN 1 
COLOSSUS 
DRAX DOPPEL 
HERCULES 
HULK 
HULK DOPPEL 
HUMAN TORCH 
NOVA 
ROGUE 
SHE-HULK 
SILVER SURFER 
SILVER SURFER DOPPEL 
STRONG GUY 
THING DOPPEL 
VINDICATOR DOPPEL 
WOLVERINE 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 15 PG 10 PN 3-PG 14 PN 3 
CA 
COLOSSUS 
DRAX 
LIVING LIGHTNING 
ROGUE 
SCARLET WITCH DOPPEL 
SILVER SURFER 
STRONG GUY DOPPEL 
WONDER MAN 
WONDER MAN DOPPEL 

IW 6 PG 8 PN 2-PG 9 PN 1 
CA 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
DRAX 
GALACTUS 
GAMORA 
HERCULES 
HERCULES DOPPEL 
HULK 
HUMAN TORCH 
ICEMAN DOPPEL 
MOONDRAGON 
MOONDRAGON DOPPEL 
PSYLOCKE 
SHE-HULK 
SASQUATCH 
SILVER SURFER 
THING 
THOR 
VISION DOPPEL 
WOLVERINE DOPPEL 
WONDER MAN 

WM2 15 PG 14 PN 4-PG 22 (END) 
CA DOPPEL 
CYCLOPS DOPPEL 
HERCULES DOPPEL 
LIVING LIGHTNING 
SCARLET WITCH DOPPEL 
THING DOPPEL 
WONDER MAN 
WONDER MAN DOPPEL 

FF 370 PG 9-PG 10 PN 4 
BW 
DD 
DARKHAWK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
IRON MAN 
MAGUS 
MR. FANTASTIC 
NAMORITA 

FF 370 PG 10 PN 5 
MAGUS 

IW 6 PG 9 PN 2-3 ~ FF 370 PG 11 PN 1 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
MAGUS-IW/FF 
WARLOCK-IW 

IW 6 PG 9 PN 4 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
HERCULES 
HULK 
MOONDRAGON 
PSYLOCKE 
SILVER SURFER 
THOR 

IW 6 PG 10 PN 1 
MAGUS 

IW 6 PG 10 PN 2 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
DRAX 
GAMORA 
HERCULES 
HULK 
PSYLOCKE 
SILVER SURFER 
THOR 

IW 6 PG 10 PN 3-4 
GALACTUS 

IW 6 PG 10 PN 5-PG 11 PN 1 ~ FF 370 PG 11 PN 2 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
ANGEL-IW/FF 
CA-IW 
COLOSSUS-IW/FF 
CYCLOPS-IW/FF 
DR. DRUID-IW 
DR. STRANGE-IW 
DRAX-IW/FF 
GALACTUS-IW/FF 
GAMORA-IW/FF 
HAVOK-IW/FF 
HERCULES-IW/FF 
HULK-IW 
HUMAN TORCH-IW/FF 
ICEMAN-IW 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW 
LIVING LIGHTNING-IW/FF 
MAGUS-IW/FF 
MARVEL GIRL-IW/FF 
MOONDRAGON-IW/FF 
NOVA-IW/FF 
NOVA II-IW/FF 
PIP-IW 
PROF X-IW/FF 
PSYLOCKE-IW/FF 
QUASAR-IW (CANT BE HERE; HES DEAD) 
SASQUATCH-IW/FF 
SCARLET WITCH-IW 
SHE-HULK-IW/FF 
SILVER SURFER-IW/FF 
STORM-IW 
STRONG GUY-IW/FF 
THING-IW/FF 
THOR-IW/FF 
VINDICATOR-IW 
VISION-IW/FF 
WARLOCK-IW/FF 
WOLVERINE-IW 
WONDER MAN-IW/FF 

IW 6 PG 11 PN 2-PG 12 PN 3 
MAGUS 
THANOS-BTS 
WARLOCK 

FF 370 PG 12 PN 1-2 
MAGUS 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 6 PG 12 PN 4-PG 13 PN 5 
MAGUS 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 6 PG 13 PN 6-PG 14 ~ FF 370 PG 12 PN 3-4 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
MAGUS-IW/FF 
THANOS-IW/FF 
WARLOCK-IW 

FF 370 PG 12 PN 5 
THANOS 

IW 6 PG 15 PN 1 
MAGUS 
THANOS 

IW 6 PG 15 PN 2-PG 17 PN 2 ~ FF 370 PG 12 PN 6-PG 13 PN 4 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
MAGUS-IW/FF 
THANOS-IW/FF 
WARLOCK-IW/FF 

IW 6 PG 17 PN 3-7 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

FF 370 PG 13 PN 5-7 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

FF 370 PG 14 PN 1 ~ IW 6 PG 18 PN 1 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
DR. STRANGE-FF 
GALACTUS-FF 
MAGUS-FF/IW 
NOVA II-FF 
SASQUATCH-FF 
THANOS-FF/IW 
WARLOCK-FF/IW 
WOLVERINE-FF 

IW 6 PG 18 PN 2 
THANOS 

FF 370 PG 14 PN 2-3 ~ IW 6 PG 19 PN 1-2 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-FF/IW 
GALACTUS-FF/IW 
HAVOK-IW 
HULK-FF/IW 
HUMAN TORCH-FF 
MARVEL GIRL-IW 
NOVA II-FF 
QUASAR-FF (CANT BE HERE; HES DEAD) 
ROGUE-IW 
SHE-HULK-FF/IW 
SILVER SURFER-FF/IW 
STRONG GUY-FF/IW 
THANOS-FF/IW 
THING-FF/IW 
VISION-FF/IW 
WOLVERINE-IW 
WONDER MAN-IW 

FF 370 PG 15 PN 1-3 
GALACTUS 
HUMAN TORCH 
NOVA II 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHE-HULK 
SILVER SURFER 
THING 
THOR 

IW 6 PG 19 PN 3-PG 21 
CA 
GALACTUS 
MAGUS 
NOVA II 
SHE-HULK 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 
WOLVERINE 

FF 370 PG 15 PN 4-PG 16 PN 1 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MR. FANTASTIC 
ROGUE 
STORM 
VISION 
WOLVERINE 

IW 6 PG 22 PN 1 
GALACTUS 

IW 6 PG 22 PN 2 ~ FF 370 PG 16 PN 2 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
CA-IW/FF 
GALACTUS-IW/FF 
HULK-IW/FF 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-IW/FF 
SHE-HULK-IW/FF 
SILVER SURFER-IW/FF 
THANOS-IW 
VISION-IW 
WOLVERINE-IW/FF 

FF 370 PG 16 PN 3 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MR. FANTASTIC 

IW 6 PG 23 PN 1 ~ FF 370 PG 16 PN 4 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
GALACTUS 

FF 370 PG 17 PN 1 
GALACTUS 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MARVEL GIRL 
MR. FANTASTIC 
NOVA 
NOVA II 
SCARLET WITCH 
SHE-HULK 
SILVER SURFER 
STRONG GUY 
THING 
WOLVERINE 

IW 6 PG 23 PN 2-3 
CA 
CYCLOPS 
GALACTUS 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
SHE-HULK 
STORM 
THANOS 
THING 
VINDICATOR II 
VISION 
WONDER MAN 

IW 6 PG 24-27 
ETERNITY 
INFINITY 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

MK3 44 PG 1 PN 2 
ETERNITY 
INFINITY 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

FF 370 PG 17 PN 2-4 
DR. DRUID 
DR. STRANGE 
GALACTUS 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MR. FANTASTIC 
THING 
THOR 
VINDICATOR II 

FF 370 PG 17 PN 5 
MAGUS 
WARLOCK 

MK3 44 PG 2-6 
BEAST 
BK 
CRYSTAL 
MOON KNIGHT 
NAMORITA 
SPEEDBALL 
USAGENT 

IW 6 PG 28 PN 1-2 
GALACTUS 
HULK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MR. FANTASTIC 
NOVA II 
STRONG GUY 
THANOS 
THING 

FF 370 PG 18 PN 1 
CA 
GALACTUS 
NOVA II 
THANOS 

IW 6 PG 28 PN 3 ~ FF 370 PG 18 PN 2 (IW TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
THANOS-IW-BTS/FF-BTS 

FF 370 PG 18 PN 3-4 ~ IW 6 PG 28 PN 4-PG 29 (FF TAKES PRECEDENCE) 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF/IW 
MR. FANTASTIC-FF/IW 

FF 370 PG 19 PN 1 ~ IW 6 PG 30 PN 1-3 ~ MK3 44 PG 7 PN 1-2 
HUMAN TORCH-FF/IW/MK 
INVISIBLE WOMAN-FF/IW/MK 
MR. FANTASTIC-FF/IW/MK 
THING-FF/IW/MK 

MK3 44 PG 7 PN 3 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MR. FANTASTIC 

FF 370 PG 19 PN 2-PG 20 PN 3 
HUMAN TORCH 
INVISIBLE WOMAN 
MR. FANTASTIC 
THING 

IW 6 PG 30 PN 4-5 
BK 
BW 
CA 
HERCULES 
SHE-HULK 
THOR 
VISION 

IW 6 PG 30 PN 6-7 
ANGEL 
BEAST 
COLOSSUS 
CYCLOPS 
FORGE 
GAMBIT 
MARVEL GIRL 
PROF X 
PSYLOCKE 
ROGUE 
STORM 
WOLVERINE 

IW 6 PG 31 PN 1-2 
DR. STRANGE 

IW 6 PG 31 PN 3-4 
SILVER SURFER 

IW 6 PG 31 PN 5-6 
GALACTUS 
NOVA II 

IW 6 PG 32-37 
DRAX 
ETERNITY 
GAMORA 
MOONDRAGON 
PIP 
THANOS 
WARLOCK 

IW 6 PG 38-39 
MAGUS 

IW 6 PG 40-42 
THANOS 

watching: degrassi unscripted

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 10:29 am    Post subject: Thank you!
By Ethain

Thank you very much for the chronologies! I'll use them for completing my Warlock/Magus/Goddess research. I know it's impossible to put some order in the comics issues, but it gives me an idea of where to place each one.

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 11:32 am    
By SKleefeld [DIRECTOR]

For what it's worth, here's what I've got in my DB (with page numbers)... 

iw1 p1-14 
ff366 pp. 1-11 
iw1 p 15-16 
ff366 pp. 13-22 
iw1 pp. 17-20 
ff366 pp. 24-30 
iw1 pp. 21-33 
drstr42v3 
ss67v3 
drstr43v3 
ff367 pp. 1-3 
iw1 p34-40 
ff367 pp. 4-20 
iw2 p. 1 
ff367 pp. 22-24 
iw2 pp. 2-30 
ff367 p. 25 
iw2 pp. 31-35 
ff367 p. 27 
iw2 pp. 35-36 
wm13v2 pp1-3 
msmk41 pp. 2-14 
iw2 p37 
ff367 pp. 28-29 
iw2 pp. 38-40 
ss68v3 
ss69v3 
ff368 p. 1 
iw3 pp. 1-2 
ff368 pp. 2-3 
msmk41 p. 15 
iw3 p. 3 
wm13v2 p. 4 
ff368 p. 4 
wm13v2 pp6-8 
iw3 p. 4 
ff368 pp. 6-8 
iw3 pp. 5-8 
wm13v2 pp. 9-29 
iw3 pp. 9-11 
ff368 pp. 9-14 
iw3 p. 12 
ff368 pp. 15-29 
iw3 p13-14 
nw27 
iw3 pp. 15-27 
wm13v2 p. 30 
ff368 p. 30 
iw3 pp. 28-31 
msmk41 pp. 16-18 
iw3 pp. 32-36 
q38 pp. 12-30 
iw3 pp. 37-39 
msmk41 p19-29 
msmk42 
msmk43 p1-21 
iw4 pp. 1-16 
wm14v2 pp1-9 
ff369 pp. 1-4 
iw4 p. 17 
wm14v2 pp. 10-13 
iw4 p. 18 
ff369 pp. 8-10 
iw4 pp. 19-20 
msmk43 p. 29 
iw4 pp. 21-22 
ff369 pp. 11-15 
wm14v2 pp. 14-20 
iw4 pp. 23-24 
wm14v2 pp. 21-24 
iw4 pp. 25-26 
wm14v2 pp25-28 
msmk43 p. 30 
iw4 p27-28 
ff369 pp. 18-20 
iw4 pp. 29-31 
msmk44 
ff369 p. 21 
iw4 pp. 32-38 
sleepwalker18 p1-6 
iw5 pp. 1-6 
q39 pp. 1-2 
iw5 p. 7 
q39 pp. 3-30 
iw5 p8-9 
sleepwalker18 p7+ 
iw5 p10-13 
wiw9 p1-2 
iw5 p14 
wiw9 p3+ 
iw5 pp. 15-23 
q40 
iw5 pp. 24-33 
wm14v2 pp. 29-30 
ff369 pp. 24-28 
iw5 pp. 34-36 
ff369 pp. 29-30 
iw5 p37-40 
drstr46v3 
wm15v2 
drstr47v3 p1-12 
iw6 pp. 1-4 
drstr47 p13-22 
ff370 pp. 1-14 
iw6 pp. 7-10 
ff370 p. 15 
iw6 p11-14 
ff370 p16-17 
iw6 p15-17 
ff370 pp. 18-20 
iw6 pp. 18-21 
ff370 p. 21 
iw6 p. 22 
ff370 pp. 24-25 
iw6 pp. 23-42 
ff370 pp. 27-30 
msmk44 
msmk45

			*	*	*

Thread 34

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 06:35 pm    Post subject: Days of Future Past additions
By SeanCurtin

DANVERS, CAROL | DAYS OF FUTURE PAST 
UX 192-FB-BTS 

RASPUTINA, ILLYANA | DAYS OF FUTURE PAST 
UX 188-FB 

SEFTON, AMANDA | DAYS OF FUTURE PAST 
UX 188-FB 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was always under the assumption that Rachel's time as a Hound occured before UX 141-142... 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 06:39 pm 
By Dhall

One of these days we're going to have to sit down and sort that whole timeline out....

			*	*	*

Thread 35

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 07:07 pm    Post subject: Brian Xavier, Sharon Xavier, Kurt Marko
By SeanCurtin

MARKO, KURT 
XU 13/2-FB 
{UX 12-FB} (during Xavier's funeral) 
XMF 4-FB (more of the funeral) 
*UX 12-FB (after the funeral) 
**XU 12-FB (discussing Cain with Sharon) 
**XMF 4 
**UX 309-FB (abusing Sharon) 
*UX 12-FB (explosion in his lab) 
**XU 12-FB (saving Charles and Cain from the fire) 
*UX 12-FB (dies) 
**XU 12-FB (dead) 

**MARKO, SHARON XAVIER 
X 121-FB 
X 12-FB 
{UX 12-FB} 
XMF 4-FB-BTS 
UX 12-FB 
XU 12-FB 
UX 309-FB 

**XAVIER, BRIAN 
X 121-FB 
{X 12-FB} 
UX 12-FB-BTS (dies in a mushroom cloud) 
X 12-FB-BTS (funeral) 
XMF 4-FB-BTS (funeral) 
UX 12-FB-BTS (funeral) 

**XAVIER, SHARON 
See MARKO, SHARON XAVIER 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 08:39 pm    
By Dhall

Sean, 
Thank you! I was wanting to do this, but did not have the time. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 36

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 12:31 pm    Post subject: Eel / Leopold Stryke (new entry)
By Jopili

EEL/LEOPOLD STRYKE 
[...] 
CA 181 
*** DEF 36 
DEF 37 
[...]

			*	*	*

Thread 37

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 11:02 am    Post subject: Eternals History in What If? Volume 1
By Ant-Man

I don't have all of the issues in question, but What If? v1 featured the history of the Eternals... 
Has anyone analyzed these? 

#23 - Celestials First Visit To Earth "The First Celestial Host" 
#24 - History of The Eternals "The First Eternals" 
#25 - History of The Eternals "The First Uni-Mind" 
#26 - History of The Eternals "Outpost on Uranus" 
#27 - History of The Eternals "Kree Encounter" 
#28 - History of The Eternals "New Life" 

I have #26 and #28, which I can analyze, but I don't have any of the other issues
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 02:19 pm    
By Peter Fabricius

You missed #29 "...The Search for the Great Refuge" and #30 "Moving Day!" 
There is also a story in #35 with the origin of the Cat-People. 

I have #23, 25, 26, 27, 29, 30 and 35. So I could help out.
_________________
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

			*	*	*

Thread 38

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 04:38 pm    Post subject: UX 25 - Ted Roberts
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Ted Roberts' entry doesn't list his appearance in UX 25. (He's on page 5, panel 2.) This fits in - obviously - between UX 24 and UX 26.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Thread 39

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 07:39 pm    Post subject: Radion
By rhod

Radion listing currently has: 
MTIO 9 
IF 3 
IF 4 

However, I believe it should read: 
IF 4 -FB 
[MTIO 9] 
IF 3 
IF 4 

Also you could add his real name, Dr. Henri Sorel, and his other alias, Ravager. (As you can probably tell I've been reading the new Essential Iron Fist TPB)

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 07:10 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Actually, he should be listed under SOREL, DR. HENRI with cross-references from RADION and RAVAGER, since he made most of his appearances as an employee of Project: PEGASUS without using either alias. 

SOREL, DR. HENRI 
IF 4-FB 
{M/TIO 9} 
IF 3 
IF 4 
**M/TIO 55 
**M/SH3 3/5 
**AUP 5 
(and possibly other appearances) 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 40

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 11:00 am    Post subject: Punisher Year one.
By Marvel Jedi

okay, this places the castle massacre around asm 80-120 that would make his kids in their teens is this right? 

Cause quesada says that all Max P is canon except the end so please help.
_________________
-snoogans!

			*	*	*

Thread 41

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 04:31 am    Post subject: Mordred note; fb elaborated
By Enda80

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/mandracbk.htm 

(Hulk Comic #41/2 (fb)) - When Mordred's agent le Sabre was defeated by the Black Knight, Mandrac and his fellows appeared in a vision before Mordred, chastising him for his failure, and questioned whether they had been right to grant him a return to physical form. Mordred insisted that they had not made a mistake, and vowed that the Black Knight would not survive a second time. 


Mandrac and the Nethergod's appearance in MSH #17, bringing Mordred back to life, was shown in Hulk Comic #41, confirming Mandrac and co. as the previously unidentified Nethergods. I've put his appearance in HC #41 as a flashback, though to be accurate, the entire story in that issue is a flashback to the origins of the Black Knight. 


Could Mandrac get an entry; 

MANDRAC 
{M/SH 17-FB} 

A pox on George Olshevksy for not mentioning this in the Avengers Index.

			*	*	*

Thread 42

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 10:24 pm    Post subject: Current Titles
By stavesacre79

Hey - This is Sean Arnold - I come here from time to time (as anyone who read my posting in "The End" knows). Anyways, I was just wondering if you guys keep track of modern issues in the chronology. I know you guys buy and read the current stuff, so why don't you post it? The reason for my question is inspired by Marvel Knights: Fantastic Four. I was wondering how you guys think it works into the chronology. Thanks a lot for taking the time to read and respond to my inquiries. Your site is AWESOME!!

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 07:19 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Hey, Sean. 

For one guy's take on the chronology of recent comics, see the Marvel Calendar, which is an attempt to round up all Marvel comics published in the last six years and put them in chronological order. The posted calendar doesn't go all the way up to the present (I'm constructing that part) and doesn't reflect some additions and changes I've made recently, but you'll find Marvel Knights 4 issues in part 3.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 08:41 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Why don't we have current comics on the MCP? Well, it's like this. 

We buy 'em -- we read 'em -- then we argue about 'em on the posting board for around a year. New issues come out -- we re-evaluate where the old ones go based on new information -- and we never, ever settle on anything. 

And the stuff we DO settle on gets updated onto the main site at the timely rate of once every four months. 

So -- EVENTUALLY we'll have the current comics up. But by the time we do, in all likelihood they won't be "current" anymore.  

Do we need to shape up? Yeah, probably. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 02:30 pm
By John Simons

stavesacre79 wrote: 
>>>
The reason for my question is inspired by Marvel Knights: Fantastic Four. I was wondering how you guys think it works into the chronology.  
<<<


This is the thread you want: 
http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=318&highlight=problem+fireman 

Although it veers off into discussion of FF 1234 for awhile, it gets back to Waid vs. MK4 around page 3 or 4. The jury is still out on MK4 placement, if you want to chip in your two cents...

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 07:23 pm 
By stavesacre79

Hey guys - that's a really good point about why it takes so long to get current issues posted. Thanks for replying and for the links.

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 09:50 pm    
By Dhall

Also, do keep in mind that all of us (probably) have day jobs, other commitments, this is a fun hobby though,both the comics, and the chronology. I would love to get a group together for a few drinks and a wicked chronology debate..... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 08:48 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Depending on the drinks, that could be one hell of a debate.  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 43

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 08:26 pm    Post subject: John Sublime
By Dhall

John Sublime 
Ice2 3-BTS 
*X '01 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 


Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 44

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 06:04 pm    Post subject: Coming from Marvel in December
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

As usual, Millarworld have leaked the solicitations. They've always been right before, and the fact that it happens every month from the same people tends to suggest that any disapproval on Marvel's part is purely for show. 

Anyhow - not much here that need concern us. 

The big launch is the return of ULTIMATES, with another Warren Ellis miniseries called ULTIMATE SECRET. 

X-MEN/FANTASTIC FOUR #1 kicks off a five-issue miniseries, and it's evidently canon. 

There's something called the YOUNG GUNS 2004 SKETCHBOOK, but it doesn't seem to contain any stories. 

There are seven WHAT IF? one-shots in a fifth week event. Again, barring any flashback material, unlikely to concern us. 

ELEKTRA: THE MOVIE is an adaptation of the film, and thus not canon. 

STRANGE is now being listed as a six-issue miniseries, something that they were very coy about in earlier solicitations. 

PUNISHER: RED XMAS is a one-shot by a different creative team from normal and, at first glance, would seem to be a stock Punisher story and thus perfectly canon. 

And... that's it. Quiet month.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 09:45 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
There are seven WHAT IF? one-shots in a fifth week event. Again, barring any flashback material, unlikely to concern us. 
<<<


We'll need to "watch" for framing sequences as well. 


Quote: 
>>>
PUNISHER: RED XMAS is a one-shot by a different creative team from normal and, at first glance, would seem to be a stock Punisher story and thus perfectly canon.  
<<<


There are a couple of holiday titles coming out, and from my perspective this would be a good year to fit them into current continuity, as we're approaching December of Year 22. 
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 09:46 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Paul O., your link to Millarworld is messed up in your post. What's the correct link? I'd like to go view Millarworld's listing, to compare it to Toonzone's own previews, (which are finally up): 

http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2004-12/marvel.php
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 04:02 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Too late, I'm afraid - they take them down when the official solicitations are published, and replace them with links to Toonzone and so forth. Avoiding heavy traffic, I guess.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 10:28 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Oh, I see...Millarworld's pretty slick, it seems... 

Anyway, after fully reading over the previews of what's to come, here's the couple things I noticed, (in addition to what's been mentioned above): 

The Silver Surfer appears in Cable/Deadpool #10 in December. This'll be the Surfer's first appearance I believe since the end of his own recent series. It'll be interesting to see if the depiction is similar to the Surfer we've come to see in this "alien abduction" storyline... 

Also, the Sabertooth miniseries, (which was listed as 5 issues long) is now listed as 4 issues long... 

Marvel can't seem to figure out how many issues are going to be out on the stands...
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 02:36 am    
By PeteD

There are also appearances by the FF in X-Force 5 and Spider-Man in New Thunderbolts 3. 

Plus Dr Doom in She-Hulk 10, Blade in Tomb of Dracula 3 and DD and Elektra in Bullseye:Greatest Hits 4, 

Pete

			*	*	*

Thread 45

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 11:23 am    Post subject: Characters in Weapon X v2 #28
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

On page 6 of this week's Weapon X v2 #28, a number of people are shown in a bar with Sabretooth and Scalphunter. One of them is Peepers, but are the rest supposed to be established villains? Does anyone recognize these folks?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 12:24 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

None of them strike me as particularly distinctive. I would just assume that they're generic criminals.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Thread 46

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 05:09 pm    Post subject: Enchantress and Valkyrie Question
By Enda80

I was thinking about the Valkyrie and Enchantress entries, and it occured to me that perhaps the Defenders I#108 fb should be added to the Enchantress' chronology. 

I see that Lost Generation#5 is listed before Def 108....that creates a problem. According to Defenders I#109, Brunnhilde was trapped by the Enchantress in that fb about 1000 years ago...LG#5 is in the 1960's. 

M/:LG 5 
DEF 108-FB 
{A 83}

			*	*	*

Thread 47

Characters and appearances from SILVER SURFER Vol. 1 #1-18 not yet in the MCP: 

BROTHER ROYAL [BADOON] 
**SS 2 
SUB-M 51 

DOOMSDAY MAN 
**SS 13-FB 
SS 13 

**EL CAPITAN 
SS 10 
SS 11 

**FRANKENSTEIN, DR. LUDWIG 
SS 7 

**GORT, YARRO [ZENN-LAVIAN] 
SS 1-FB 

**GORT, YARRO II (of Galactus' recreated Zenn-La) 
SS 2 
SS 3 
SS 6 
SS 10-FB 
SS 10 
SS 11 

**HARPER, DR. ALVIN "AL" B. 
SS 5 

**KRONTON, DR. 
SS 13-FB 
SS 13 

MEPHISTO 
GR2 77-FB 
**SS 8-FB 
GR3 11-FB 

**OVERLORD [DAKKAMITE] 
SS 6-FB 
SS 6 

SHALLA BAL II 
SS 8 
**SS 10-FB 
SS 10 

**WARLOCK PRIME/SIR NIGEL CARRUTHERS 
SS 12 

ZEUS [OLYMPIAN] 
A 50 
**SS 4 
T 164 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 06:18 am    Post subject: Brother Royal
By StAkAr Karnak

It appears that "Brother Royal" is a title, rather than a name. While this is the same character in SURFER and SUBBY, we don't know if he is the same guy from the X-MEN annual or CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS II. 

On another note, nice to see an acknoweldgement of the recreated Zenn-Lavians. 

- SK
_________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:StAkAr_Karnak

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 06:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Brother Royal
By SeanCurtin

StAkAr Karnak wrote: 
>>>
It appears that "Brother Royal" is a title, rather than a name. While this is the same character in SURFER and SUBBY, we don't know if he is the same guy from the X-MEN annual or CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS II. 
<<<

I'd rather assume that it's the same guy and split the chronologies only if evidence suggests otherwise. Regardless, any post-COC II appearances of the BR are probably going to be a new character regardless of whether or not the previous appearances were all of the same guy. 


StAkAr Karnak wrote: 
>>>
On another note, nice to see an acknoweldgement of the recreated Zenn-Lavians. 
<<<

Even if many of us consider that revelation to be (as the French say) "le bull-shit". 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 48

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 10:04 pm    Post subject: Howard the Duck characters
By SeanCurtin

Characters and appearances from various stories reprinted in Essential Howard the Duck: 

**AVERY, DR. MORTON 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 
HTD 14 

**BARBARA, NURSE 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 
HTD 14 
HTD MAG 4/2 

**BEAVER 
HTD 9-FB 
HTD 8-BTS 
HTD 9 

**BIG MACK 
HTD 23 

**BOLOGNA, JUDGE HIRAM "DON'T-GIMME-NO" 
HTD 12 

**BZZK'JOH 
HTD 22-B 
HTD 22 
HTD 23 

**BROWN, JUBAL 
GSM-T 5/2 

CARTER, JAMES EARL JR. 
**HTD 8 
CB 27 

**CATMAN/PETER CHRIS 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 

**CECIL, NURSE 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 
HTD 14 

**COUNT MACHO 
HTD 3 

**COUTURE, XAVIER 
HTD 4 

**DADI, ABU HO 
HTD@ 1 

**DEMON/GENE SIMMONS 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 

DOCTOR BONG/LESTER VERDE 
**HTD 17-FB 
HTD 15 
... (not in HTD 16 or 24) 
HTD 25 
**HTD 27 
HTD 30 

**DOCTOR REICH/"ADOLF HITLER" 
HTD 12-BTS 
{HTD 13} 
HTD 14 
HTD MAG 4/2 

DRACULA/VLAD TEPES DRACULA 
DL 1/2 
**GSM-T 5/2-FB 
M/TU2 7-FB 

**DRAGONWORTH, MRS. 
HTD 6 
HTD 7 

**DRAGONWORTH, PATSY 
HTD 6 
HTD 7 

**FIFI THE DUCK 
HTD 17 
HTD 18 
HTD 19 (body seen in photograph) 

FORD, GERALD 
H2 185 
**HTD 8 

**FURGEN, PROF. 
HTD 17-FB 

**GARKO THE MAN-FROG 
GSM-T 4/2 

**GINGERBREAD MAN 
HTD 6 
HTD 7 

**GONZO THE CLOWN 
HTD 5 

**GULTCH, DREYFUSS 
HTD 7 
HTD 8 
HTD 9 

**HASSIM, PRINCE 
HTD@ 1 

**HELLCOW/BESSIE 
GSM-T 5/2 

**HOROWITZ, MILDRED 
HTD 17-FB 
HTD 21 

HOWARD THE DUCK 
**HTD 13-FB 
{AIF 19} 
... 
HTD 1 
**HTD 2-FB 
HTD 2 

**HUBLEY, IGNATZ 
HTD 26 

**KIDNEY LADY/S. BLOTTE 
HTD 12-FB 
HTD MAG 1/3-FB 
{HTD 2} 
HTD 5 
HTD 11 
HTD 12 
HTD MAG 1/3 
SMTU 5/2 

**KLOUT, EMILE "THE GOAT" 
HTD 5 

MAN-MOUNTAIN KLOUT 
See KLOUT, EMILE "THE GOAT" 

**MASTER CH'AAJ 
HTD 3 

**NAAC-P30 
HTD 23 
HTD 24 

**PETRIE, MR. 
HTD@ 1 

**POPE, AMY 
HTD 19 

**PRO-RATA 
HTD 1 

**RARITAN, IRIS 
HTD 25 
HTD 26 
HTD 27 

**ROCHESTER, HEATHCLIFF 
HTD 6 
HTD 7 

**SAME, PAUL 
HTD 4-FB 
HTD 4 
HTD 14 
HTD@ 1 
HTD 15 
HTD 17 
HTD 25-FB 
HTD 24 
HTD 25 
HTD 26 
HTD 27-BTS 
HTD 30 
HTD 31 
HTD MAG 1 
HTD MAG 1/3 
HTD MAG 2/2 
HTD MAG 3 
HTD MAG 4/2 
HTD MAG 5 
HTD MAG 5/2 
HTD MAG 6 

**SANGOR, MR. 
HTD 7 

**SOMBRA 
HTD 22-FB 

**SPACE ACE/ACE FREHLEY 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 

**SPACE TURNIP/PHELCH 
HTD 2 

**STARCHILD/PAUL STANLEY 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 

**SUDD 
HTD 20 

**SUPREME SOOFI 
HTD 21 
HTD MAG 4/2 

**SWITZLER, MR. BEVERLY "LEE" (the other Beverly's uncle and namesake) 
HTD 20 
HTD 21 
HTD 25-BTS 
HTD 26 
HTD 27 

SWITZLER, MS. BEVERLY 
**HTD 17-FB 
{HTD 1} 
**HTD 2-FB 
HTD 2 
... 
HTD 25 
**HTD 27 
HTD 30 

TILLIE THE HUN 
**M/TE 12 

**TOMPKINS, OFFICER 
GSM-T 4/2 
GSM-T 5/2 
HTD 3 

**TURNIP-MAN/ARTHUR WINSLOW 
HTD 2 

**TUTU/2-2-2-2 
HTD 23 

**WAZOO, ALI 
HTD@ 1 

**WESTER, WINDA 
HTD 11 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 
HTD 14 
HTD@ 1 
HTD 15 
HTD 17 
HTD 24 
HTD 25 
HTD 26 
HTD 27-BTS 
HTD MAG 1 
HTD MAG 1/3 
HTD MAG 2/2 
HTD MAG 3 
HTD MAG 4/2 
HTD MAG 5 
HTD MAG 5/2 
HTD MAG 6 

**WIJID 
HTD@ 1 

**WINKY MAN 
See SAME, PAUL 

**YUC, REV. JOON MOON 
HTD 6 
HTD 7 
HTD 13 
HTD 14 
HTD MAG 4/2 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 09:45 am    
By Ant-Man

A few additions: 

CATMAN/PETER CRISS (corrected spelling) 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 

**GOPHER/MORTON ERG 
{HTD 32} 

**GREEDY KILLERWATT 
{HTD MAG 3} 

**GREY PANTHER/DR. GERRY ATRIC 
{HTD MAG 8} 

**HAROLD, HAROLD H. 
TOD 70 
HTD MAG 5 
DRSTR2 62 

**PINBALL LIZARD 
{HTD MAG 3} 

**PRO-RATA 
HTD MAG 4-FB 
{HTD 1} 

**RYDER, CECI 
{HTD 32} 

**STARKOWSKI, CAROL 
{HTD MAG 3} 

**STARKOWSKI, CLAUDE 
{HTD 30} 
HTD 31 
HTD MAG 1 
HTD MAG 2 
HTD MAG 3 
HTD MAG 5/2 
HTD MAG 6 

**SWITZLER, MR. BEVERLY "LEE" (the other Beverly's uncle and namesake) 
HTD 20 
HTD 21 
HTD 25-BTS 
HTD 26 
HTD 27 
HTD 30 
HTD 31 

**TURNIP-MAN/ARTHUR WINSLOW 
HTD 2 
HTD MAG 1 

**WESTER, WINDA 
{HTD 11} 
HTD 12 
HTD 13 
HTD 14 
HTD@ 1 
HTD 15 
HTD 17 
HTD 24 
HTD 25 
HTD 26 
HTD 27-BTS 
HTD 30 
HTD 31 
HTD MAG 1 
HTD MAG 1/3 
HTD MAG 2/2 
HTD MAG 3 
HTD MAG 4/2 
HTD MAG 5 
HTD MAG 5/2 
HTD MAG 6
_________________
-Brian Cook-

Last edited by Ant-Man on 24 Sep 2004 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 10:04 am    
By Enda80

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
**DOCTOR REICH/"ADOLF HITLER" 
HTD 12-BTS 
{HTD 13} 
HTD 14 
HTD MAG 4/2 

DRACULA/VLAD TEPES DRACULA 
DL 1/2 
**GSM-T 5/2-FB 
M/TU2 7-FB 
<<<


HTD 14 is also listed in the Hate-Monger's chronology. Perhaps it should be removed from there. 
COTL 35 
HTD 14 
SVTU 12-BTS 
SVTU 16-FB 

The vampire in GSM-T 5/2 was not identified, but I guess it was intended to be Dracula.

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 06:38 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
HTD 14 is also listed in the Hate-Monger's chronology. Perhaps it should be removed from there. 
<<<

Yup. 

Quote: 
>>>
The vampire in GSM-T 5/2 was not identified, but I guess it was intended to be Dracula. 
<<<

He looks like how Dracula is usually depicted; I'd be surprised if the artist, writer or both didn't intend for that to be Dracula. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 49

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 11:45 pm    Post subject: Shen, Lian Dr.
By Dhall

Shen, Lian Dr. (new entry) 
*UX 253 
*UX 255 
*UX 257 
*UX 265 
*UX 266 
*UX 267 
*UX 278 
*UX 279 
*XX '01 

Let me know if I've forgotten any.... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 11:47 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Has XX '01 been analyzed? 


watching: byu v. boise state

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 09:24 am    
By Dhall

Not yet, but it will be by the end of the weekend. Sometimes I get slightly ahead of myself. I'm working on XX 10-18, and that annual.... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 50

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 06:08 pm    Post subject: Odin in TOS#39/3; Death entry have ?
By Enda80

Odin appears in a back-up story in TOS#39/3, in a fb to Viking times. I have a copy. Would this be worth inclusion in his chronology? 

By the way, why does Death's entry have ? marks? Some uncertain appearances? I though about this because Conan the Barbarian I#33-34 had a storyline where Conan seems to have met the embodiment of Death (Flame Winds of Lost Khitai). I'll see if I can do a summary of it.

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 06:28 pm  
By ADMINISTRATOR

If there's nothing in the story or flashback to contradict canon, then sure. 


watching: penn state v. wisconsin

			*	*	*

Thread 51

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 10:01 pm    Post subject: XCAL3 5-FB
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

On page 7, panel 2 of this week's XCAL3 5, we see Xavier pulling up a memory of his "original decision years ago to hide from the world the fact that [he] was a mutant." The memory shows Charles in his wheelchair, being interviewed by a reporter in a TV studio with a backdrop that says "World Beat." Does anyone want to suggest a placement for this flashback in Professor X's chronology?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 12:21 am    
By SeanCurtin

Probably around the time of Bizarre Adventures #27. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 06:10 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Since Xavier had known about his powers for years prior to ending up in the wheelchair, this can't possibly be his original decision to conceal the fact that he's a mutant. More likely, this relates to a decision taken at around the time that he first became a public figure, when he returned to America after being crippled and started to achieve prominence as an expert in mutants. At first Xavier just hung around the mansion until being dragged out to meet Jean Grey, so it's going to be after that. 

That would place the flashback after the flashback in BIZARRE ADVENTURES #27, and before Xavier's appearance in a photo in the Magneto story in CLASSIC X-MEN #19, by which point he's already achieved some prominence in the field.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 09:11 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Sounds like Paul has a logical placement. Shall we make this an official addition to Xavier's MCP chronology in the spot Paul suggests?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 52

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 11:26 am    Post subject: Citing Marvel Knights 4
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

I've been curious: how will we refer to the title known as "Marvel Knights 4," or simply "4?" How should this title be abbreviated for the MCP? If we use "M/K4" we run the risk of confusing this with volume 4 of plain old "Marvel Knights," if it ever gets published. Marvel Knights has been through two volumes already.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 11:28 am
By Ant-Man

How about M/K-4 or M/K:4 ?
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 11:46 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

How about 4? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 01:08 pm    
By Jim Smith

Somehow I picture "4 1" confusing me in a long list of, say, Reed's appearances. 

Maybe FOUR would work better?

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 03:49 pm 
By SKleefeld [DIRECTOR]

How about we justify why it's not canon and then we don't have to abbreviate it all?

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 06:42 pm    
By SeanCurtin

M/KF? M/KFF? 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 09:46 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
How about we justify why it's not canon and then we don't have to abbreviate it all?  
<<<

Heh, heh. I'm just about to post on that very subject, kind of...
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 06:03 am
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

If you abbreviate it as "4", what happens if it gets a second series? "42"? 

I'd suggest "MKF" or, for consistency with other titles starting with "Marvel", "M/KF".
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 09:45 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

You'd think Marvel could have foreseen these problems before they named the darned thing. 


watching: college gameday

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 09:04 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

What's your preference, Russ? I'll edit the Calendar to reflect the abbreviation you decide to use. "FOUR" would be good if the title were usually noted as just plain "4," because you'd think to look under "F." But if the common title usage is "Marvel Knights 4," then I'll agree that "M/KF" (not to be confused with "Master of Kung Fu").
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 01:02 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Well, Marvel can call the books what they like. I'd prefer not to think of "Marvel Knights" as part of the title, any more than I do for Hulk or Captain America. To me, Marvel Knights is an imprint, nothing more. 

And since the Key doesn't have to reflect reality--it's simply a code, a representation, of the title--I'd lean toward FOUR. 

Thankfully, there was never a volume 2 for 2001. 


watching: in the cut

			*	*	*

Thread 53

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 04:13 pm    Post subject: Heroes Reborn questions
By RLG

I've been working on the theory that the same amount of time that the various heroes spent away from Earth-616 was also the same amount of time that they spent on the Heroes Reborn Earth - which the last time I checked was approx. 135 to 140 days (middle of October to end of February.) 

If that is the case, it actually works out pretty well within the Heroes Reborn chronology - with the Industrial Revoultion storyline in issue #6 of each of the four titles occuring roughly 3-4 weeks after the kick off issue of CA2 1 (for various reasons CA2 has to come before FF2 1, A2 1, & IM2.) The climatic battle with Galactus in issue #12 of each title occurs 2 months after Industrial Revolution. That gives the heroes about 1 1/2 months before they return to Earth. 

With that said, is it safe to assume that most (if not all) flashbacks occuring within those issues are "false memories?" An example would be Rebel Reilly's "death" in IM2 1 - which clearly takes place months, if not years, before IM2 1. Another example would be the various flashback to Reed Richards, Bruce Banner, Vic Von Doom, Tony Stark, etc. in college. 

Those events didn't REALLY occur did they? Or is their evidence that the Heroes actually lived "real" lives within the time frame that they spent on Heroes Return Earth? 

- RLG2

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 02:54 am    
By Jim Smith

RLG wrote: 
>>>
I've been working on the theory that the same amount of time that the various heroes spent away from Earth-616 was also the same amount of time that they spent on the Heroes Reborn Earth - which the last time I checked was approx. 135 to 140 days (middle of October to end of February.)  
<<<

The exact length of time is open to debate, but the basic theory is sound. In Heroes Reborn: The Return, characters on 616 are commemorating the anniversary of Onslaught, while characters in the Franklinverse are discovering that their planet is only a year old. I would imagine Marvel has backtracked on the "year" part, preferring to refer to the period as an indeterminate length of time, but it's the same length of time in both universes. It's definitely within a year, not longer. 

Quote: 
>>>
With that said, is it safe to assume that most (if not all) flashbacks occuring within those issues are "false memories?" An example would be Rebel Reilly's "death" in IM2 1 - which clearly takes place months, if not years, before IM2 1. Another example would be the various flashback to Reed Richards, Bruce Banner, Vic Von Doom, Tony Stark, etc. in college. 

Those events didn't REALLY occur did they? Or is their evidence that the Heroes actually lived "real" lives within the time frame that they spent on Heroes Return Earth? 
<<< 

I recently came to the same conclusion. The Franklinverse was presumably created almost immediately before Steve Rogers remembers he's Captain America in CA2 1, so any flashbacks to events prior to CA2 1 are false memories of a reality that didn't exist back then. As it happens, virtually all of the flashbacks in Heroes Reborn were to events that happened years ago, like the "Atomic Knights" and Ben Grimm at college together, or the various accounts of Captain America's life, or Rebel's "death." 

The only flashbacks I think could have "actually" occurred--that is, just before CA2 1, A2 1, FF2 1, or IM2 1--are a scene in which Sue Storm asks Ben Grimm to join the mission that gives the FF their powers (I forget the issue number offhand), or the scene in IM2 9 in which Madame Hydra resurrects Rebel. Everything else is definitely not real and can't be counted as chronological appearances. Further, characters who only appeared in those distant memories, like the Franklinverse's Harry Truman or the Golden Age villains concocted for CA2 7, effectively never existed at all. 

All of this raises another question. Iron Man vol. 2 #11 sends Tony and Doctor Doom hurtling through time, apparently encountering characters from Earth-616 like Merlin and the Silver Age Avengers. There's also at least one scene that has to be in the Franklinverse, with Air-Walker preparing the HR Earth for Galactus's arrival some 10 million years ago. That Air-Walker part has to be some sort of illusion, since the HR Earth didn't exist 10 million years ago. So if Tony and Doom are only seeing an illusion there, what are they seeing in the other time-jumps? Aside from Air-Walker, all the time-travel destinations pertain to Iron Man and Doom's histories in Earth-616, so is that the "real" Rama-Tut talking to them or some construct based on their memories?

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 05:02 am    
By RLG

I agree with you about the flashback where Sue asks Ben to join the Excelsior project. (BTW, its in FF2 3) In it, she mentions that Storm Industries computers have been hacked into "two days ago." This is why SHIELD agent Wyatt Wingfoot goes to Europe "four weeks" before FF2 4-5 where he is captured by Doctor Doom (or Skrulls, OR BOTH - Wyatt's narrative is not very clear.) 

On the first page of FF2 1, Ben is using the Excelsior simulator on the very day of the launch. His conversation with Reed indicates that Ben will not be on the Excelsior's first mission - to investigate the stellar anamoly. It could be argued that he has recently arrived at the project and is making up for lost time. 

What do you think about the Reed/Tony conversation in the Wizard 1/2 Heroes Reborn issue? It takes place clearly afrer Rebel's "death", and seems to occur before IM2 1. I'm tempted to throw it into continuity, but admit to being biased - I just spent $7.00 on a copy! 

As for the time travel issues (Merlin, etc.), I HAD been under the impression that they were actually events/characters from Earth 616's past. But your Air-Walker comment makes me re-think the whole matter. In the scene, Air-Walker is "seeding" the Earth for Galactus. It is established that in the Franklinverse, Galactus operates in that manner - treating various planets as garden beds. But, is there any evidence of Galactus 616 acting in that manner? And if so, was the Air-Walker 616 around back then? If not, then like you said Jim, what past images are false and what past images are real? Maybe we could ask CBS... 

-RLG2

			*	*	*

Thread 54

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 08:48 pm    Post subject: Imperial Guard
By Dhall

Having put up issue analysis for X 118-121, naturally I would like to try to tackle Imperial. The problem that I always have with these Imperial Guard issues is that a lot of these characters only make one or two apps., and often don't get a name except in interviews with the writers. 

So my questions are this: Does anyone have a good list of which Imperial Guards appear in which issues of X 117 (at the end of this issue, they are not in the MCP except for Gladiator), and 122-126? 

Also, what is the standard practice in a case like this, can we use names that aren't on panel, but that Grant Morrison has used in interviews? If not, how do we identify some of the Guards? 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 08:57 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
Also, what is the standard practice in a case like this, can we use names that aren't on panel, but that Grant Morrison has used in interviews? 
<<<

Standard practice is to follow what's in the books. It's likely that any future writers who use these characters will consider them unnamed characters, and he or she will be free to name them whatever he chooses. 


Dhall wrote: 
>>>
If not, how do we identify some of the Guards? 
<<<

Standard practice is to wait until the character is named, before adding a listing. 


watching: vikings v. eagles

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 09:37 pm    
By Dhall

Well in that case it won't be that much of a problem, thanks. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 06:57 pm    
By SeanCurtin

#117: Mammoth, Forunn (dialogue in #122 implies that she's a Guard and not a medic) 
#122: Mammoth, Forunn, Smasher 
#123: Stuff/"Kato", Squorm, Arc, Monstra, Gladiator, unknown #1 
#124: G-Type, Manta, Neosaurus, Plutonia, Oracle, Stuff, Monstra, Fader, Squorm, Blimp, Gladiator, Smasher, unknowns #1, 2, and 3 
#125: G-Type, Stuff, Smasher, Plutonia, Gladiator, unknown #3, Manta 
#126: Smasher, Plutonia, Manta, unknown #3, Gladiator, Stuff 

Unknown #3 (white star-field guy) has been named as Cosmo in interviews; he's supposed to be a Stygian, the same race as the Guardsman Quasar/Neutron. Unknowns #1 (orange energy-generating male) and #2 (black-and-white female) were named in interviews as Electron and Schism, respectively. The others are all named in dialogue, though it can be... difficult to determine which is which at times. (For example, the three-eyed mohawked female is Monstra.) 

Also, don't forget that Stuff later becomes the body of Ernst/Cassandra Nova... 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 07:57 pm    
By Dhall

Well Electron has previously appeared before, so we can list him, if that is who it is supposed to be. I'm not as sure as you that Forunn is in the guard. 

Other wise my list is pretty much the same as yours. 

Per Russ, we can't list unnamed characters, but those are the names I've read too. 

Thanks Sean! 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 10:38 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Well, I'm not so sure that the orange guy is Electron, though I've got him as being there in my notes and probably got that from an interview somewhere. I suppose if we said that that guy was Electron, we might as well say that the starfield guy is Neutron and not some similar-looking new guy. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 10:42 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Smasher's also in X 117 in his original costume. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 11:13 pm    
By Dhall

The colors of Electron's costume (orange) and powers match the guy in question. That's as close as you can get sometimes with the Guard. 

The starfield guy is definitly the same species as Neutron. I have a feeling that later wtriters may just make them into one character. (And to be honest, if Morrison hadn't given him another name in an interview, we would all think he was Neutron.) Do we want to do that here, I don't know. What does everyone else think? 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 06:40 pm    
By SeanCurtin

No reason not to make "Cosmo" be Neutron with a new costume. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 07:04 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Agreed -- if later comics and writers prove us wrong, we can simply update the MCP.  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 09:47 pm    
By Dhall

Ok, then I will update my listing and add him. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 04:15 pm    
By Belacaleb

The Marvel X-Men Encyclopedia (I don't own it, but I've read it) has a whole section on the Imperial Guard. It was published after these issues were, so it has an entry for each of them, including name and something of their powers. 

-Caleb
_________________
Caleb Monroe - Writer 
Read Prince Charming online!

			*	*	*

Thread 55

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 06:10 pm    Post subject: Some Wolverine apps.
By Dhall

Paul, 

I'm loking over the calendar and I see that Wolverine has some apps. in roughly this order (excluding X-Men Unlimited, which I don't want to touch yet) 

W '2001 

X-Force 120 
Dpool 60, 61 
Spider-Man Sweet Charity - BTS 
W ' 2001/2 
W2 170-173 
W2 173/2 
W2 174-176 
Avg 51-fb 
cyclops 1 
X 114-116 

....... 
X 122 
Punisher 16 
Punisher 17 
X 123-126 
Order 5-6 
Black Panther 42-44 
Wolverine/hulk 
UX 400 
W2 177-180 
UX '01 
UX 401 
W2 181-182 
UX 409 
W2 183 

Before jumping into some Wolverine issue analysis, I'd like to know how much everyone agrees with this list. Forgive me if I copied something incorrctly, I find the calendar hard to use when searching for specific characters. 
I would like to get the rough placemnets for W2 '01, W2 170-182 agreed on, before I look into the issue analysis..... 

Dave H

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Thread 56

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 01:18 pm    Post subject: Error in Skids listing
By shandrakor

After NM 100, she's credited as being in Cable 1-2. 

These entries should be for Cable: Blood and Metal 1-2, which she was in, though the book is not listed in the Key, so perhaps they have not been analyzed yet. 

Either way, she definately wasn't in Cable 1-2, which takes place 2000 years after the X-Force era, and she was in Cable: B&M, which would fit into that spot in the character's chronology.

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 01:46 pm    
By Dhall

see the key: 

C CABLE 
C2 CABLE VOL. 2 


C is Cable: Blood & metal 

C2 is the rgular cable series. 

I don't see the error in the listing, though perhaps the key could be clearer as to which Cable book was which. 

Dave H

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Posted: 26 Sep 2004 03:24 pm    
By Jim Smith

The two-issue miniseries says "CABLE--BLOOD AND METAL" on both the cover and the indicia, so technically the ongoing series is (to my knowledge) Cable vol. 1-and-only. Since I wouldn't want to have to go in and change all the codes, though, I'd just make the distinction clearer in the key: C = CABLE: BLOOD & METAL and C2 = CABLE vol. whatever.

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 09:44 pm    
By shandrakor

Yeah, what Jim said 

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Thread 57

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 04:41 pm    Post subject: Tony Stark's recent chronology
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Ive been trying to make heads or tails of Tony Starks recent chronology, in light of the fact that his stint as Secretary of Defense lasts months. This fact, and my attempt to tie in various other Avengers chronologies, have forced me to place the storyline in which Stark becomes a cabinet member right after the previous incumbent is revealed to be the Red Skull. This, of course, means a number of appearances for Tony in which he is Secretary of Defense, but no mention is made of that fact in the comics in which he appears (not that such mention is required, mind you). 

How does this sequence look, from Tony Starks perspective? 


INCREDIBLE HULK v3 #71-74 
This story, with all its flashbacks, takes several months to occur. During this time, Stark is involved in developing a gamma radiation-proof armor for the Feds. Stark is clearly in the role of an industrialist engineer here, not in his cabinet post. 

IRON MAN v3 #70-72 
Stark goes to Las Vegas for an investigation. This adventure has a leisure-time context, so it is likely that it occurs before the catastrophe of A3 65-70, as it would be hard to imagine Tony taking time off to do this after the Red Zone storyline. In IM3 74, though, Rumiko notes you hardly get back from Las Vegas, and then youre out again, an indication that any adventures that Tony has between IM3 72 and 73 should occur in quick succession, within the span of no more than several days. 

ALIAS #28 

AVENGERS v3 #65-70 
The Red Zone storyline, in which Secretary of Defense Dell Rusk is revealed to be the Red Skull. This takes three days, with the exception of the epilog in A3 70, which occurs two weeks later in involves Avengers (not Iron Man) visiting Red Zone victims. 

IRON MAN v3 #73-78 
In a storyline that takes nearly two weeks, right on the heels of Red Zone, Stark becomes Secretary of Defense. IM3 73 ties into Iron Mans appearance in CD 5. Stark is hospitalized at the end of this story. 

IRON MAN v3 #79-83 
After days in the hospital, Tony Stark is sworn in as Secretary of Defense. Tony then spends his first day on the job and is given an assignment by the president to go to Iraq to investigate strange attacks there. This adventure takes a few days. While wrapping up in Iraq, Stark gets an emergency phone call and leaves Iraq, spending the next few days in the adventure in IM3 83. 

AVENGERS v3 #72-76 
The Search for She-Hulk storyline. No mention is made here of Stark being Secretary of Defense, but no evidence exists to suggest that he is not; Tony burns the candle at both ends and in the middle after assuming his cabinet post, as hes still running a company and serving as Iron Man. 

CAPTAIN AMERICA v4 #27 
Iron Man and Cap investigate a terrorist attack in Cleveland in June. 

IRON MAN v3 #86  FB (17p5-19) 
One day, several months before IM3 86. Stark is Secretary of Defense here. 

IRON MAN v3 #87  FB (9p2-13p2) 
One day. It is three months before IM3 87 (3-22). Stark is Secretary of Defense at this time, so this flashback must occur after IM3 83 (21). 

SHE-HULK v3 #1 
Iron Man makes a guest appearance. 

AVENGERS/THUNDERBOLTS #1 
No mention is made in this mini-series of Stark being Secretary of Defense, but no evidence exists to suggest that he is not. 

IRON MAN v3 #84-85 
X-STATIX #21-25 

AVENGERS/THUNDERBOLTS #2-6 (1-16) 
A few weeks after A/TB 1. Football season. 

X-STATIX #26  FB 

AVENGERS/THUNDERBOLTS #6 (17-20) 
Weeks after A/TB 6 (1-16). 

AVENGERS v3 #77-81 
The Avengers in England. Again, no mention is made here of Stark being Secretary of Defense, but no evidence exists to suggest that he is not. 

AVENGERS v3 #82-84 and INVADERS v3 #0 
Days after A3 78. 

MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN #1-2 

DAREDEVIL v2 #61 

Then comes AVENGERS: DISASSEMBLED.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 26 Sep 2004 06:48 pm    
By Jim Smith

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
INCREDIBLE HULK v3 #71-74 
This story, with all its flashbacks, takes several months to occur. During this time, Stark is involved in developing a gamma radiation-proof armor for the Feds. Stark is clearly in the role of an industrialist engineer here, not in his cabinet post. 
<<<
 

I agree that this story clearly occurs before he becomes Secretary of Defense. Hulk #75-76 also feature Stark and probably have to occur almost immediately after #74 to explain why he's still hangng around Banner. 


Quote: 
>>>
AVENGERS/THUNDERBOLTS #1 
No mention is made in this mini-series of Stark being Secretary of Defense, but no evidence exists to suggest that he is not. 

AVENGERS/THUNDERBOLTS #2-6 (1-16) 
A few weeks after A/TB 1. Football season. 
<<< 


If you're basing the football season assumption on Baron Zemo's line that the T-bolts will save Minnesota in time for the Packers game, keep in mind that Zemo has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. He not only thinks Minnesota's team is the Packers, he thinks the Packers are a baseball team. Is the scene happening during baseball season or football season? There's no way to tell, because Zemo may think the Packers play baseball in mid-February for all we know, and Atlas doesn't get around to educating him on the subject. 

As for Tony's status in A-bolts, he narrates #2 and in regard to his imposture as Cobalt Man muses "and don't I sound more like a politician every day?" It's not set in stone, but I take the line to mean that he's either already Defense Secretary or at least thinking about seeking the position. Since you've got A-Bolts occuring well after Iron Man #78, I opt for the latter. (You'd think Donald Rumsfeld would get into a heap of trouble threatening nuclear power plants as a cobalt-themed supervillain, but I suppose Tony ultimately gave the White House other things to worry about.)

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 08:03 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Is the scene happening during baseball season or football season?  
<<<

Fortunately, my calendar placement hedges all bets on that score. It happens during baseball season and the beginning of football season. 


Quote: 
>>>
As for Tony's status in A-bolts, he narrates #2 and in regard to his imposture as Cobalt Man muses "and don't I sound more like a politician every day?"  
<<<

Good catch. I'll add that to my notes.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 26 Sep 2004 10:10 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Furthermore, Stark notes in A/TB 2 that he is a "public official." This confirms that at least A/TB 2-6 occur after he is sworn in as Secretary of Defense.
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 58

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 05:22 pm    Post subject: Man-Thing
By scottandrewhutchins

The chronology currently lists GSS-M 5 taking place between M-T 18 and 19. This can't be correct. At the end of M-T 18, Richard Rory, Man-Thing, and Carole Selby get into a van and drive to Atlanta, and at the beginning of M-T 19, Man-Thing is walking the streets of Atlanta at night. Since this storyline begins with M-T 16, follows in GSM-T 4, and continues basically uninterrupted from M-T 17-22, and as GSS-M 5 is set in Man-Thing's swamp, that the issue must be set between M-T 15 & 16. 

I say "basically uninterrupted" because of the chronological enigma of GSM-T 5. That issue is correctly listed as before Svage Tales 1, Man-Thing's first appearance, but that really applies only to the frame story, in which Ted Sallis and Ellen Brandt go to a fortune teller (at the same circus we encounter in M-T 5), who shows them three stories that are supposed to be Ted's future, and all of them involve Man-Thing, which they find to be outrageous scare tactics on the forutne teller's part. The first of these three stories (GSM-T 5/2, not listed) is by Steve Gerber, who wrote the frame story, and all of Man-Thing's run from Fear 11-19 and Man-Thing 1-22. His story has Man-Thing crashing an occult ritual in an Atlanta apartmentment, and eventually dumped out onto the fire escape. Man-Thing's return to the van at the beginning of M-T 19 could easily have been following this minor episode, as M-T 18 ended before the drive ther had actually begun, and the fact that it's by the same writer reinforces that possibility, since the other two writers wrote essentially generic Man-Thing stories, while his seems to match where he had concurrently taken the character). The other two stories (5/3 and 5/4) are set once again in Man-Thing's swamp. His return to the swamp after M-T 22 is never documented, but he starts his journey from there in Marvel Premiere 28, which suggests the best place to fit these stories, supposing they actually did occur (since presumably this is all in a fortune teller's crystal ball, albeit she's obviously legit if she sees Man-Thing in Sallis's future), would be before that issue and after M-T 22. 

Scott

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 06:46 pm    
By SeanCurtin

If the three visions are in fact separate stories and not just different sequences within the same story, then the Howard the Duck story currently listed as GSM-T 5/2 will need to be revised to GSM-T 5/5. 

-Sean

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 08:27 pm
By scottandrewhutchins

Each of the three stories has a separate title and list of credits, all of which are different. The Howard the Duck story is not within the framing. But the point is correct. The Howard the Duck story is 5/5, unless one counts the ending of the frame story (which does not have separate credits from its opening) as part 5.

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 09:15 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Framing sequences that are interrupted by one or more other stories are usually counted only once (IIRC). 

-Sean

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 09:42 pm    
By scottandrewhutchins

1. "Fear Times Three!" by Steve Gerber, Ed Hannigan, and Dan Adkins 
2. "There's a Party in 6G!" by Steve Gerber and Tom Sutton 
3. "The Sins of the Fathers"by Len Wein, John Buscema, and Frank Springer 
4. "Lifeline!", by Marv Wolfman, Ed Hannigan, and Tom Sutton 
5. "Hellcow!" by Stve Gerber, Frank Brunner, and Tom Palmer

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Thread 59

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 09:32 pm    Post subject: New Universe and Ultraverse
By SeanCurtin

Several New Universe characters have appearances in Quasar listed, and the Marvel Ultraverse titles are being analyzed. Should we add separate pages for these universes, leave them out, or integrate them into the main alphabetical lists? I'm for giving each their own page - as is, both would be more complete than the 2099 page. 

-Sean

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 10:32 pm    
By Dhall

I would much rather that these characters get their own pages. I would also like to see the Mutant X characters get their own page, etc. I dislike looking through several versions of the same character to find the actual 616 version. I also want a Days of Future Past page, once we get around to straightening that out..... 

You'll notice that we know have several other timeline pages already up. 


Dave H

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 11:14 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Ditto for a 2020 page. 

Maybe someday someone will analyze Earth/Universe/Paradise X and 1602; if so, they could probably get their own pages. IIRC Paradise X: Heralds features Days of Future Past's Wolverine, the original Deathlok, and Mutant X's Bloodstorm, so that series probably needs to get analyzed someday regardless. 

-Sean

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Thread 60

Posted: 10 Sep 2004 09:43 pm    Post subject: Villain Roundup
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Is it my imagination, or has Marvel gotten into the habit of dragging out bunches of old villains lately? Just this week, we have villains gathering at two auctions -- one for Cap in CA4 31 and one for Venom in M/KS-M 6. And are the writers paying attention to the individual chronologies of these villains when they're included in these stories? 

Anyway, in the recent tradition of identifying faces in a crowd (witness X-Statix #26 and Avengers #501), I could use a hand with CA4 31 and M/KS-M 6. Here's who I can identify: 

At the auction CA4 31: 
Dragon Man, Arnim Zola, Baron Strucker, Mr. Hyde, Viper II, Baron Blood, Modok. Who's that guy with the sword? I've no problem with the villains who appear elsewhere this issue (the entire Serpent Society and the Red Skull). 

At the auction in M/KS-M 6: 
Hydro-Man, Sandman, Yith, White Rabbit, Owl, Shocker, Speed Demon, Stilt-Man, Tinkerer, Al Kraven, Knockout, Mysterio, Venom. A number of others are discernable, but I'd have to spend lots of time in the second-rate loser archives to find their identities. Anyone up for it?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 11:13 pm    
By Ant-Man

I just sent a message to Robert Kirkman to find out about the villain with the sword from Cap #31...I'll let you know what I find out...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 04:19 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
At the auction CA4 31: 
Dragon Man, Arnim Zola, Baron Strucker, Mr. Hyde, Viper II, Baron Blood, Modok. Who's that guy with the sword? I've no problem with the villains who appear elsewhere this issue (the entire Serpent Society and the Red Skull). 
<<<
 
Mr Hyde? Hmmm....I thought that was the Mad Thinker myself, (the hair is similar)...Hyde was captured by Captain America just two issues earlier, at the start of this storyline... 

Off hand comment: I thought Baron Blood was dead?
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

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Posted: 25 Sep 2004 01:22 pm    
By jannepie

So did I but he was mentioned to be in prison in Alias # 28. 

The writers have really started to use guest villains without checking their chronology. Only Bendis has already used several deceased villains in the books.

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 07:22 pm    
By SeanCurtin

http://www.webofspider-mike.com/dodson/ 

The writer-and-artist-confirmed annotated listing of all of M/KS-M 6's cameos. 

The Black Knight seen here might be the same one who worked for Morgan recently in Avengers, or the lookalike android, "Tommy", from the Marvel UK series Plasmer. 

-Sean

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 08:25 pm 
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

It's the one they DIDN'T identify that intrigues me the most: 

Page 23, panel 1 -- the shouting man, referred to as "Mr. Marko". 

Juggernaut? Or Man-Mountain Marko? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 09:14 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Flint Marko: Sandman. 

-Sean

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 10:25 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

This is great, Sean. Thanks! 

Okay, so we have the following villains in this issue: 

Green Goblin, Hydro-Man, Sandman, Shocker, Owl, Speed Demon, Yith, White Rabbit, Stilt-Man, Knockout, Mysterio II, Tinkerer, Big Wheel, Knight, Fogg, Whiplash II, Nekra, Bloodscream, Mindblast, Fortunato, Angelo, Chance, Corona, Platoon, a new Black Knight, Roughhouse, Goldbug, Bloodlust, Lobster-Man, Looter, and Venom. 

Did I get 'em all?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 28 Sep 2004 12:45 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Gah! Too many villains named Marko! 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 28 Sep 2004 10:11 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Indeed. What the heck is up with that name, anyway? Not exactly one of your ten most popular American surnames. Some inside Bullpen joke from the 60s?
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 61

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 12:02 am    Post subject: Eric the Red
By SeanCurtin

UX 104-FB occurs during the events of UX 103, probably during the time period when the X-Men are searching for Black Tom and Juggernaut as suggested by temporal references in UX 104. The flashback is duplicated in Eric the Red's chronology, though it should only be listed once. Magneto's chronology, and the first occurance of the flashbacks in Eric's chronology, lists CHAMP 17-FB as preceding SVTU 14-FB, but the second listing in Eric the Red's chronology lists them in the other order, with X 2-FB in between. I'm not sure which is the correct order. 

UX 103 (last page, last panel) is an actual appearance of both Eric the Red and Magneto, the latter on a monitor or communications screen; dialogue places this between UX 104-FB and UX 104, as Eric references Magneto as a current ally. UX 103-BTS should thus be removed from Magneto's chronology; not only is it not a BTS, but it's in the wrong place. UX 105-FB also isn't currently listed in the chronologies of Eric the Red or Firelord, though it is listed for Havok and Polaris; it either occurs before or after the first occurence of CX 13 in Eric's chronology. 

UX 107-FB seems to be Eric's first chronological appearance; placing it where it is now removes it from context. 

Possible revised chronology: 

ERIC THE RED/DAVAN SHAKARI [SHI'AR] 
UX 107-FB 
{UX 97} 
CX 5 
UX 97 
UX 103-FB 
UX 99-BTS 
UX 101-BTS 
UX 102-BTS 
UX 104-FB 
SVTU 14-FB 
X 2-FB 
CHAMP 17-FB 
UX 104-FB 
UX 103 (last page, last panel) 
UX 104 
UX 105-FB (may occur after CX 13) 
CX 13 
UX 105 
(etc) 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 62

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 12:43 am    Post subject: Missing appearances from GSX 1, UX 94-107
By SeanCurtin

APE MAN 
M/TU 25 
**UX 94-FB 
UX 94 

BIRD MAN 
M/TU 25 
**UX 94-FB 
UX 94 

BLACK TOM CASSIDY 
UX 99 
*XMF 3 (moved; occurs between UX 100 & 101) 
UX 101 

CAT MAN 
M/TU 25 
**UX 94-FB 
UX 94 

FROG MAN 
DD 11 
**UX 94-FB 
UX 94 

DRAGONFLY/VERONICA DULTRY 
**UX 94-FB 
UX 94 

FIRELORD 
T 247 
**UX 105-FB 
UX 105 

JUGGERNAUT 
UX 99-BTS 
*XMF 3 (moved; occurs between UX 100 & 101) 
UX 101 

KRAKOA 
**GSX 1-FB 
GSX 1 

MAGNETO 
UX 104-FB 
**UX 103 
UX 104 

O'DONNELL, EAMONN 
**UX 103-FB 
{UX 101} 

**SOUL-DRINKER 
UX 107 

-Sean

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Thread 63

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 09:32 pm    Post subject: Monsters Unleashed 5
By scottandrewhutchins

I can't confirm it as yet, but it seems that Tony Isabella's Man-Thing story, which seems placed too early in the chronology as it is (certainly much earlier than it was published), may have been made retroactively non-canon by J.M. DeMatteis. That is, unless there is (or could be) a story that explains why Ellen Brandt's face is a mess in M-T 3 1-up. In MU 5, Ellen meets a reconstructive surgeon who falls in love with her and fixes her face at no (monetary) charge. M-T4 seems to definitely not be canon, since F.A. Schist, who died in M-T 8, is in it. There aren't really any indicators as to when the story takes places, as the rednecks at its conclusion have not, to my knowledge, reappeared. It seems it could take place any time after Astonishing Tales #13, since there is a visit to the ruins of the AIM base that was destroyed in that issue. 

Scott

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Posted: 30 Sep 2004 05:28 am
By Enda80

The history of Atlantis given in DeMatteis' run would also be hard to reconcile with most other accounts of Atlantean history. 

FA Schist was in MT4? which issue?

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Sep 2004 02:03 pm    
By scottandrewhutchins

I didn't buy the issue, and I just flipped through, so maybe I'm wrong and it's a different Mr. Schist. I know in the film the character is named Frederic Schist, and the original character was Franklin Armstrong Schist. For know, given Man-Thing's odd powers he has never displayed, I think it can be relegated to movie continuity. After all, Bruce Banner's father's name is Brian in the comics, and David in the movie. 

Scott

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Posted: 30 Sep 2004 02:48 pm    
By Ant-Man

Man-Thing v4 (the current movie tie-in) is non-canonical 

It's a prequel to the film (the film is an adaptation of the F.A. Schist storyline)
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Thread 64

Hello everyone, 

this is only my second topic, but I love what everyone here is doing. This site is such a valuable resource, and every year i get more and more impressed with it, and more happy its sticking around. 

Now, the reason for this thread is twofold: 

1) Would anybody mind horribly if i took it upon myself to try and organize the chronology of the Ultimate characters? I'd most likely start with the Ultimates, and then Ult. X., then Ult Spidey, but regardless, this is something I'd like to do for a site that has given me so much over the years. 

2) What is the status of Ultimate Marvel Team-Up? What issues are cannon, and which are not? I seem to vaguely recall the #9 (the FF issue), was not cannon, but is this true? or should i try to shoehorn it in? also, are there any other issues of any series that are not cannon? and that horrible Ultimate Adventures, is that even cannon, aside from the issue where the Ultimates show up? 

Thanks everyone, and i hope to contribute soon
_________________
Expand your mind

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Posted: 19 Sep 2004 11:52 am    
By PopularLoser

As far as I know, every single Ultimate Book is canon except for Ultimate Marvel Team-Up #9 (the Fantastic Four issue). There was a time when Mark Millar said he had a way to fit Ultimate Marvel Team-Up #9 in with Ultimate Fantastic Four but now that he's no longer co-writing the book, I don't know if that will ever be worked out. But aside from that, everything is canon. That would include: 

Ultimate Spider-Man (Still Ongoing) 
Ultimate Spider-Man #1/2 
Ultimate Spider-Man Super Special 
Ultimate Marvel Team-Up #1-16 (Excluding #9) 
Ultimate X-Men (Still Ongoing) 
Ultimate X-Men #1/2 
Ultimate War #1-4 
Ultimate Six #1-7 
The Ultimates Volume I #1-13 
Ultimate Adventures #1-6 
Ultimate Daredevil/Elektra #1-4 
Ultimate Elektra (Current Mini-series) 
Ultimate Fantastic Four (Still Ongoing) 
Ultimate Nightmare (Current Mini-series) 
Ultimate Secret (Upcoming Mini-series) 
The Ultimates Volume II (Upcoming Series)
_________________
<Insert Signature Here>

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Thread 65

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 01:27 pm    Post subject: Canon flashbacks in MC2 books?
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

In the spirit of our earlier conversation about MC2 and divergent futures -- can anyone tell me if any MC2 books have flashbacks to the modern or classic Marvel Universe? 

Does J2 have any Juggernaut flashbacks? Does Wild Thing have any Wolverine flashbacks? Even FBs *without* new material ... to stories we've seen before. Anything, in any book? 

Thanks, folks. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 02:09 pm    
By Ant-Man

I have the entire J2 series, and I'll be happy to check when I get home (unless somebody beats me to it)
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 23 Sep 2004 02:51 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

That'd be great -- ideally, I'd like to have SOME feedback by the time I go to that comic show this Saturday. The 50-cent bins await! 

And Brian, I've still got you in mind on those other two things... 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 05:51 pm    
By Ant-Man

I checked all 12 issues of J2, and here's what I found: 

J2 #7 has several flashbacks to Juggernaut's history: finding the crimson gem; fighting the original X-Men, etc. 

J2 #8 has a flashback to X-Men meeting Black Tom and Juggernaut at Cassidy Keep (circa Uncanny #103) 

hope that helps...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

Last edited by Ant-Man on 28 Sep 2004 01:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 28 Sep 2004 01:41 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

The second story in Wild Thing #5 has a Juggy flashback that, in my quick flip through the issue, looks like it might be new. The rest of the series didn't have any flashbacks that I could see. 

How many MC2 books ARE there, anyway? Here's the ones I know of from memory: 

Spider-Girl #1-current, Annual '99 (#0 is all-reprint, right?) 
Spider-Girl Presents the Buzz #1-3 
Spider-Girl Presents Darkdevil #1-3 
A-Next #1-12 
J2 #1-12 
Fantastic Five #1-5 
Wild Thing #1-5 
What If? v2 #105 

...Any more? Did any of these series have a promotional #0 or #1/2 issue? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 01:55 pm    
By Ant-Man

Your list covers all of the titles, but there ARE two promotional issues: 

Spider-Girl # 
Wild Thing #0
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 29 Sep 2004 12:31 pm 
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I knew there was a Wild Thing #0!! Thanks, Brian. 

Was that released through Wizard, or some other method? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 12:42 pm    
By Ant-Man

It was released through Wizard. 
I don't know if it was a mail-away promo, or if it was included with an issue of Wizard. (I picked up my copy from a local shop) 

Here's the cover http://www.mycomicshop.com/webpics/BA30M000.JPG
_________________
-Brian Cook-

Last edited by Ant-Man on 29 Sep 2004 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 29 Sep 2004 12:44 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

You own a copy, eh? Any flashbacks?  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 05:03 pm    
By Ant-Man

There is a 1 panel flashback to Wolverine fighting Wendigo (from Logan's first appearance)
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Thread 66

Posted: 24 Aug 2004 01:21 pm    Post subject: Any differences between UX #122-138 and Classic #28-44?
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I know this is a bit off-topic here, but I figured it'd get more attention in Issue Analysis than it would in Chat. Just consider it as me ASKING for an issue analysis... 

Anyway, in issues #1-27, Classic X-Men engaged in some fairly heavy editing of the UX issues it reprinted (#94-121). At CX #28, UX #122, that process seems to have ceased -- but since I don't have access to any of the original issues, I can't check to be sure. 

One thing they used to do on a regular basis was touch-up Storm's dialogue -- replacing her early use of contractions ("don't") with the non-contracted sentences ("do not") she uses today. They also used to drop in occasional new plot-hole-patching lines. 

Can anyone check their copies of UX #122-138 against CX #28-44, and keep a sharp eye out for things like dialogue re-editing? 

I'm particularly curious about issues #122-131 right now ... if possible, I'd like to hear back from someone about those ten issues in the next week. 

Thanks in advance... 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 24 Aug 2004 05:57 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
I know this is a bit off-topic here, but I figured it'd get more attention in Issue Analysis than it would in Chat. Just consider it as me ASKING for an issue analysis... 
<<<

Note that I'll leave it up to Jeph to make his own determination because he's a moderator, but "getting more attention for a thread" is the number one reason *not* to post something in the wrong forum. 

For the record, I don't think it's off topic here at all. I just didn't want newbies to the forum to think they could post a message about whatever they wanted in what they perceived as the most popular forum, in order to get high visibility. 


watching: lou dobbs

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 08:31 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
"getting more attention for a thread" is the number one reason *not* to post something in the wrong forum. 
<<<

You're lucky I didn't go with my original reason: "I'm a mod and I can do whatever I want." :wink: 

Kidding ... you're right, though, Russ, that is a lousy reason to post threads in the wrong place. I'm glad to hear that you think it's on-topic here, but I shouldn't be giving folks the idea that misposting for attention IS okay. Sorry. 

Today's lesson, MCP posters? Do as I say, not as I do. 

Soooo ... has anyone been looking into my original question? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 11:04 am    
By PeteD

JephYork, sorry I can't help with your query, but maybe you can clarify a query for me. 

I bought the Classic X-Men series up to the point where the original stories ceased, but thought I was getting a bonus in filling the gaps in my Uncanny X-Men run. 

Are the differences between the originals and reprints that you know of significant or should I treat myself to the Masterworks reprints to come closer to what was originally published? 

Thanks, 

Pete.

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 11:12 am    
By Ant-Man

Treat yourself to the originals! 
Nothing beats that warm, fuzzy feeling... 
 

But, if you can't, I don't know of any significant changes that will make you miss out on anything in the originals. 

The Essential X-Men TPBs are good "reader" copies, although they're black & white...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 11:29 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Hey, Pete. You're saying you bought Classic X-Men #1-44, is that right? 

Well, from what I can see, the edits done up through issue #27 -- Uncanny #121 -- WERE significant. I bought the first three Uncanny Masterworks specifically to own un-edited versions of the issues. 

However, #27 is where they stopped adding extra pages and visibly re-doing word balloons -- every issue from #28 up seems to contain untouched Orzechowski lettering, with no added pages. The only visible difference is that the "Uncanny X-Men!" banner, credits and indicia have been removed from p.1 of every issue (and added to the inside front cover), and the art has been enlarged at the top and bottom to cover the missing text. 

So, yeah, if I were you I'd buy the first three Uncanny Masterworks. 

Unfortunately, what I'm trying to figure out -- and what nobody seems to know -- is whether we'll need to buy the upcoming FOURTH Uncanny Masterwork as well... 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 11:34 am    
By PeteD

Ant-Man, I've just had a look to see what price we are talking and the cost of just issues 94-102 comes to $3000!!! I think the only one getting a warm fuzzy glow at those prices will be my bank manager.  

Whether it's because I read the UK reprints in the 60's and early 70's in B&W and eagerly sought out the US color originals but I get a eerie chill in my spine thinking of American B&W reprints. I see the reason, but they're not for me.

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 11:48 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

You want inexpensive, color reprints? The first two Uncanny Masterworks are available in softcover form at Barnes & Noble -- $12.95 each. That certainly beats their hardcover price of $39.95, or the staggering cost of the original issues... 

Also, Classic X-Men skips issues #106 and 110, for some reason. Both issues, though, are collected in Uncanny Masterworks vol. 2. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 01:04 pm    
By Ant-Man

It was 1985 when I backtracked to get my issues of Uncanny, so the prices were a little more reasonable. 
(I remember mowing extra lawns so that I could go pick up my near-mint copy of Giant-Size X-Men #1 for a staggering $45.00) 

Jeph, did they edit that much out of the issues? I know that they added the supplemental pages, but I didn't realize that they omitted anything significant (except for the chop-job that they printed in Classic X-Men #1) 

Man, I keep giving people bad advice. I need to wait until I get home and can refer to my collection before commenting. 
Maybe someone is telling me that I should do work while I'm at work!
_________________
-Brian Cook-

Last edited by Ant-Man on 27 Aug 2004 01:13 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 01:07 pm    
By rhod

Be wary of buying the essential reprint books, as from looking at the footnotes they appear to be a mix of reprints of the originals and the classic versions of the stories. Unfrotunately I own neither original or classics so I can't comment on exactly which issues are which, I only noticed the footnotes

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 01:47 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Agreed on the Essentials. My first printing of Essential X-Men vol. 1 (reprinting GSMX #1 and UX #94-119) was missing the final page of #119, and they had used the Classic X-Men reprint of #113 -- including the updated footnotes, expanded art on p.1, and re-worked word balloons. I'm unsure if later printings corrected these mistakes. 

Ant-Man, I couldn't tell you what got omitted in the Classic reprints -- it varied every issue. In general, it was dialogue alterations, bringing the early versions of the characters more in-line with their modern representations. Storm using contractions was edited out, various bits acknowledging Wolvie's adamantium skeleton (as opposed to just his claws) were added in ... there's a line from UX #118 or so, when Tokyo is burning, where someone asks if Storm can put out the blaze. In #118 she says she can't do it ... but in Classic #24 the line has been changed to something like "I could do more harm than good ... I dare not try." Because, you know, God forbid Storm be *unable* to do something. 

If I were you I'd sit down some day and compare the original issues to the Classic reprints ... the changes are many more, and more subtle, than you'd think. 

-Jeph!

Last edited by jephyork on 27 Aug 2004 02:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 01:52 pm    
By Ant-Man

Will do...thanks very much for the clarification. 
Since I had the originals, I purchased the Classic X-Men issues for the new material, and that was the focus of my attention when reading them...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 02:02 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Since you have both, then ... would you mind looking at UX #122-131 and Classic #28-37 for me? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 02:08 pm    
By Ant-Man

Sure! I'll try to get to it this weekend... 
I'm missing Classic X-Men #34, so I'll have to see if I can pick up a copy and compare it.
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 08:59 pm    
By Dhall

Jeph, I could look at these, but I can't do it in the timeframe that you would like, due to various family obligations. If you still need it done in a week or two, let me know. 

Dave H

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 09:21 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Dave, I'd love to hear from you no matter what the timeframe. Issues #122-131 are the only ones I've got the rush on, anyway ... get back to me whenever you can. 

At this point, my order cutoff for the Uncanny v4 Masterworks is some time Monday. If I don't make the cut-off, I guess I won't get the Masterworks for 35% off ... no big deal, I'll bide my time and pick it up on eBay or at a convention for about the same discount. 

But if you or Brian COULD get back to me by Monday morning ... with whatever you've found at that point ... that'd be great. 

Thanks to both of you! 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 28 Aug 2004 12:00 am    
By Dhall

Well I looked at UX 122 / CX 28, and there are no significant differences except the obvious, "The Uncanny X-Men!" box removed and credits moved, and first page art exteneded to top of page. Also reference boxes were changed from UX issues, to reference CX issues, and the reference box to Power Man Iron Fist 50 was removed. (The dialogue about the Living Monolith was intact.) 

All dialogue was the same, and it didn't appear that any art was redrawn (though of course, I might miss something that was small.) 

Ororo used plenty of contractions, and those were present in both issues. 

I think that after CX 27 they pretty much gave up on editing the dialogue and art. 

Dave H 

I only have the time to check the one issue right now

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Posted: 28 Aug 2004 08:28 am    
By Ant-Man

I checked Uncanny #123 and CX #29 - no changes other than the type that Dave mentioned above...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 29 Aug 2004 09:58 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Thanks, guys! Can anyone out there check any more issues for me before Monday morning? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 29 Aug 2004 02:26 pm    
By Ant-Man

I checked the next 3 issues, and didn't find any changes...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 04:11 am    
By PeteD

The only versions I have of any of these issues are those in the Dark Phoenix trade paperback. The only differences are the boxes referring to previous issues ( do they have a name??). Even the colouring is consistent between the two. Issues covered are 129 - 131, I think. 

Pete.

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Posted: 30 Aug 2004 08:06 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Much appreciated, guys. Based on your replies, I feel safe NOT ordering the Uncanny vol. 4 Masterworks. 

By the way, Pete, I think the boxes you're referring to are the footnotes? 

Thanks to everyone who helped! 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 01:06 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

So now I'm comparing my TPB copy of UX #138, as collected in the newly-released "X-Men: Days of Future Past" TPB*, with the reprint from Classic X-Men #44. And I see some dialogue omissions -- in the TPB. 

On p.13, panel 3 (p.17 of the TPB), the final sentence reads "But even she couldn't hold out indefin " 

Classic X-Men #44 has the full word, "indefinitely". 

And on p.17, panel 5 (p.21 of the TPB), Lilandra's dialogue is missing the word "cherished". It appears in full in Classic #44. 

My question is -- are the words present or missing in the original issue? Which is the faithful reprint of Uncanny #138? 

Thanks... 
-Jeph! 

Quote: 
>>>
* not to be confused with the "Uncanny X-Men: Days of Future Past" bookshelf edition, which only collected #141-142. Hey, do you like how I used the Quote box to make a footnote? 
<<<

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Posted: 05 Sep 2004 09:09 pm    
By OnionMan

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
On p.13, panel 3 (p.17 of the TPB), the final sentence reads "But even she couldn't hold out indefin " 
<<<

Uncanny #138 reads the same. 


jephyork wrote: 
>>>
And on p.17, panel 5 (p.21 of the TPB), Lilandra's dialogue is missing the word "cherished". It appears in full in Classic #44. 
<<<

Missing from #138 as well. 


jephyork wrote: 
>>>
My question is -- are the words present or missing in the original issue? Which is the faithful reprint of Uncanny #138? 
<<<

The new TPB seem to be faithful to the original.

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Posted: 08 Sep 2004 03:05 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Thanks, OnionMan! 

-Jeph!

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Thread 67

Posted: 12 Sep 2004 06:23 pm    Post subject: Chronology Review for Pulse #4 and #5
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

The Pulse #4: 
"Thin Air pt. 4" 
written by Brian Michael Bendis 
drawn by Mark Bagley 

Appearances: Ben Urich, Spiderman, Kat Farrell, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Green Goblin, J. Jonah Jameson, Robbie Robberson, Sheryl Doser, Det. Regina Gans 

Synopsis: EVENTS HAPPEN ON THE SAME EVENING AS PULSE #3 

The issue starts out with Luke talking to Jessica on their cell phones. She is waiting down at the Bugle to see what she was called in to help out with, (as shown last issue) and Luke is out on a basketball court in Harlem on the lookout for drug dealers. Jessica tells Luke she's sure she's having a girl. Luke asks how she knows that, and she says she had a dream. Luke gets off the phone to bust some crack dealers. Jessica notices Ben going up on the rooftop but leaves him alone. 

Ben goes up on the roof of the Bugle and meets up with Spiderman, whom is upset with Ben, (at the end of last issue, Ben let Peter know over the phone he basically knows Peter is Spiderman). Peter asks Ben how he figured out his secret identity. Ben says Peter was the one who came in with all of these photos of Spiderman, half of which were out of focus, (because it was an autofocus camera). He then says that Peter came in some days smelling like soot. He notes that Matt Murdock often smells like soot as well, (having a supervillian battle apparently leaves you smelly). But he says what really gave it away was (as shown in the pages of DD) when the news came out that Matt was DD, when Jameson held the meeting about the other newspaper beating him to the story, Ben and Peter both came forth and said that Matt WAS NOT DD. And this gave Peter away, in Ben's mind. 

So Peter asks why Ben called him up, and Ben says it's because people are turning up missing at Oscorp. And Ben asks Peter flat out if Norman Osborn is the Green Goblin. Peter confirms it. This angers Ben, because he wrote a book about Norman Osborn, who ended up suing Ben and the Bugle, and made everyone at the Bugle miserable for a while. Ben asks Peter why he lets Osborn run around free. Peter responds with the fact that Osborn's rich and he's not. If he turns in Osborn, then he'd end up revealing himself to be Spiderman, and he'd end up in jail, while Osborn's lawyers would get Osborn off the hook. 

But Ben says that if people are simply going missing at Oscorp, if the Goblin has been reduced to just killing people on a whim, then it's time they put an end to him. They agree to help each other out in the battle to come, and Spidey swings off. 

Cut to later: Ben goes down to Oscorp and stops Sheryl Doser as she walks out the door, (she's just getting off from work). Sheryl is the one who left a message on the Bugle reporter Terri Kidder's answering machine last issue, so that's how Ben tracked her down. She asks what's wrong, and Ben says that Terri Kidder is dead. She breaks down sobbing. 

Cut to later: Back at the Bugle, Jonah, Robbie, Kat Farrell, Ben Urich, and Jessica meet up in Jameson's office. Ben says Sheryl Doser is now willing to testify against Norman Osborn. He tells Jonah he now has insurmountable evidence that Norman is the Green Goblin. Jonah says that's what Ben thought last time, when he published his book ("Legacy of Evil") on the Goblin/Osborn connection. And all it got the Bugle was sued. But Jessica steps forward and says that if they know that Osborn IS this crazy killer, they should publish it, because it's the right thing to do, and to hell with the consequences. This "voice of clarity" is exactly what Jonah hired her for, and they start getting ready to run the story the next day, and to call up the police with what they've learned. Jonah asks Jessica to accompany Ben on this. She says she can't play bodyguard: she's pregnant. But Jonah just wants her eyes on the scene, to give a fresh perspective. 

Cut to later that evening/night: Inside the Oscorp building, a full police squadron, (led by Det. Gans, introduced last issue) are at Norman's Sectretaries' desk, asking to see Norman. Ben and Jessica are with the cops, to get the story. But then the room explodes, (with Ben and Jessica barely avoiding the brunt of the blast) and in comes the Goblin, riding his hoverjet... 

References: All of these events supposedly happen on the same day as Pulse #3, and this is in the evening hours, which is starting to push it in my book, (I thought it was getting pretty late in the day near the end of #3, but maybe it wasn't that late after all). Eh, I suppose we could make it work. 

And you know...Jessica DOES appear to be awfully thin here...but she appears somewhat pudgy on those final pages of The Pulse #5...maybe there's something to Jeph's theory about a break in that issue after all... 

On page 13, Ben tells Sheryl that they found Terri Kidder dead this morning. Well, actually, going by Pulse #1, the police fished her body out of the river at night. The staff at the Daily Bugle found out about her death the next morning, (when Jonah held a press conference as seen in Pulse #3). So that must be what Ben meant...except: 

On page 15, back at Jonah's office, Ben explains to Jonah that "Yesterday afternnon, she has a late drink with Kidder. It's at this point that she says that there are missing people at Oscorp" Well, it wasn't yesterday afternoon...going by the timeline of Pulse #1 thru 3, it was two days ago, (as explained in Jeph's review for #1 and 2, and my review for #3). 

Bendis can't tell time, that's all there is to it... 

Stupid pregnant Jessica, messing up the entire space/time continuim, *grumble, grumble* 

The Pulse #5: 
"Thin Air pt. 5" 
written by Brian Michael Bendis 
drawn by Mark Bagley 

Appearances: Ben Urich, Spiderman, Kat Farrell, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Green Goblin, J. Jonah Jameson, Robbie Robberson 

Synopsis: THIS ISSUE PICKS UP RIGHT WHERE WE LEFT OFF LAST ISSUE, AND IS SPLIT UP OVER A FEW DAYS, AS EXPLAINED BELOW. 

pgs. 1-8: Continues from where we left off last issue. The Goblin throws around a couple more pumpkin bombs, one of which blows Jessica right out the window. She is saved by Spiderman, who's coming to the scene, (tipped off by what's going down by Ben Urich). But Jessica is in total panic mode now, thinking that the explosions have killed the fetus in her body. 

Spidey jumps into the building and saves Ben, who's about to be killed by the Goblin. The Goblin starts to fly off, but is assualted by a ticked off Jessica, who keeps harping on him having "killed her baby". But the Goblin still manages to get away, flying off through the city... 

pg. 9-12: Cut to what's probably later that night. Jessica and Luke are at the hospital. A doctor comes in and performs an ultrasound on her. They conclude that the baby is okay, (for now). The doctor tells her that her superpowers probably prevented injury to the baby, but she may be in for a rough delivery down the road. But for now, the baby is doing fine. 

Luke Cage takes off, telling Jessica, "I can't let this go." The Green Goblin has someone to answer to... 

pg. 13-19: Cut to the next day. The Daily Bugle runs a headline saying, "Norman Osborn IS the Green Goblin! Cop Killer caught/to face trial" 

Outside of a NYC courthouse, Norman Osborn is walking down the steps to his limo, while his lawyer talks to the reporters. The lawyer is saying that Norman turned himself in to the police, to comply with them and prove he's not the Goblin. The lawyer is trying to pin the blame on Spiderman. 

The lawyer and Norman get into the limo, and start to take off, when their limo is attacked by Luke Cage, who starts to rip the limo apart! Spiderman appears and tries to get Luke to calm down. The sight of Spiderman sets off Norman's crazy sensors again, and he knocks out the lawyer, and dons his GG costume, (well, the mask anyway...he apparently keeps a spare set in the limo). The Goblin flies off, and Spiderman attachs a webstrand to the fleeing Goblin. Luke grabs ahold of Spidey, (who's holding onto the webstrand) and yanks the Goblin back towards him, and proceeds to pummel the Goblin into apparent unconsiousness. 

Reporters swarm around Luke Cage, and Kat Farrell is the first among them to ask questions. But Luke doesn't feel like speaking... 

pg. 20-21: Cut to the Daily Bugle room. Robbie comes in and says it's all over the news. All of the reporters go and watch the news, and they're talking about how the Green Goblin has been captured, and it is now proven that the Goblin is Norman Osborn. The reporters on TV congradulate Jonah for being proven right. Jonah orders everyone back to work, and to get this story done right. 

As Ben heads back to write up the story, Jonah asks him "You wanna tell me what Daredevil's real name is?" This has been the source of tension between them as shown in Pulse #1. Ben frowns and tells him "No." But Jonah just smiles and says, "And you call yourself a reporter?" and walks off... 

pg. 22: The Next Day? Outside the Daily Bugle, Jessica looks at the new Bugle headline, "Osborn Jailed: A Bugle Exclusive!" But she just comments, "Screw the rest of it...all I care about is you." (referring to her baby). 

References: 

pg. 9: The doctor comes into the room where Luke and Jessica are and says, "I am sorry I took so long. There was a mutant attack uptown and traffic...anyway..." 

Maybe this was an event happening in one of the X books? 

Pg. 14: In the limo, Osborn's lawyer says, "I didn't spend fifteen years keeping Wilson Fisk's fat butt out of prison to watch you crash and burn like this." But Fisk IS in prison now, (as noted later in this issue)...it's just kinda a wierd thing to say, that's all...I didn't picture Fisk having the same type of lawyers as Osborn might. We already saw one of Fisk's old lawyers in the pages of DD2 #41-45, helping out the Owl...but I don't think this is the same guy, (they look totally different). 

pg. 20: The reporter on the TV screen says, "I didn't think we'd get a bigger story this year than the fall of Wilson Fisk, but here it is..." 

Well, that would place this story in the same year as DD#50...unlikely...maybe the reporter meant the trial of Fisk, (I mean, DD beat Fisk up in DD#50 and had him sent to jail...but I'm sure he had a new trial)... 

pg. 21: Jonah tells his reporters, "Someone pull that piece of crap book Urich wrote, let's run excerpts from it in our Sunday Pulse"...so it's not Sunday in this scene. 

pg. 22: Is this the next day after pages 13-19? Jessica certainly looks pregnant in this scene...but we still see a mark or a bruise on her forehead, (which matches where a bandage was in the hospital scene) and there's a bandage on her hand...so it probably is two days after the attack at Oscorp, (the next day after pages 13-19). But she did grow a tummy for this scene.... 

I also discuss how MK SPiderman #1 possibly interwines with Pulse #5...go check out the "Jessica Jones' Fetus" thread over in the General Chronology forum for my thoughts on that...
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 10:19 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Great job as usual, Kevin! Thanks. I did have a brain freeze about your review of PULSE 3, by the way. The calendar already reflects your notes.  

Quote: 
>>>
Bendis can't tell time, that's all there is to it...  
<<<

No argument there, pal! 


Quote: 
>>>
pg. 9: The doctor comes into the room where Luke and Jessica are and says, "I am sorry I took so long. There was a mutant attack uptown and traffic...anyway..." 

Maybe this was an event happening in one of the X books?  
<<<

I can't think of a published scene to which this would refer, but maybe an X-pert can come up with one. 


Quote: 
>>>
Pg. 14: In the limo, Osborn's lawyer says, "I didn't spend fifteen years keeping Wilson Fisk's fat butt out of prison to watch you crash and burn like this." But Fisk IS in prison now, (as noted later in this issue)... 
<<<

Not a problem. I interpreted this mean the the lawyer represented Fisk for 15 years and terminated his service with the big guy sometime before Fisk ended up in prison. The lawyer's track record with Fisk was untarnished, but Osborn was blowing his reputation. 


Quote: 
>>>
pg. 20: The reporter on the TV screen says, "I didn't think we'd get a bigger story this year than the fall of Wilson Fisk, but here it is..." 

Well, that would place this story in the same year as DD#50...unlikely...maybe the reporter meant the trial of Fisk, (I mean, DD beat Fisk up in DD#50 and had him sent to jail...but I'm sure he had a new trial)...  
<<<

Hey, good point! One might consider the true fall of Fisk to be his final conviction following DD2 50.  

I would still theorize that the "bigger story" remark means that "Magneto's" destruction of Manhattan should occur after this. (See "Jessica Jones' Fetus" thread.) 


Quote: 
>>>
pg. 21: Jonah tells his reporters, "Someone pull that piece of crap book Urich wrote, let's run excerpts from it in our Sunday Pulse"...so it's not Sunday in this scene.  
<<<

Well, it could be Sunday, just too late to make it in the edition that was just published. The reference may just be to the next issue of the Sunday Pulse. 


Quote: 
>>>
pg. 22: Is this the next day after pages 13-19? Jessica certainly looks pregnant in this scene...but we still see a mark or a bruise on her forehead, (which matches where a bandage was in the hospital scene) and there's a bandage on her hand...so it probably is two days after the attack at Oscorp, (the next day after pages 13-19). But she did grow a tummy for this scene.... <<<


Weirdest darn pregnancy you ever saw. 
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 68

Posted: 05 Sep 2004 01:10 am    Post subject: Any canon FBs in Wolverine: the End #1-2?
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I've managed to find and flip through "Wolverine: the End" #3-4, and both contain FBs, containing all-new scenes, to canon points in the Marvel Universe. 

But I've been unable to locate copies of #1-2. Anyone that owns them, can you tell me if they have any flashbacks in them? And, are these flashbacks retellings of pre-existing scenes, or new material like in #3-4? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 10:00 am    
By Ant-Man

Issue #1 contains 2 flashbacks: 

1. Wolverine fights Sabretooth. Both are in costume, a large fire is blazing nearby. No other significant clues as to when it occurs. 

2. Through Wolverine's eyes, we look up at the Weapon X staff preparing him for the bonding process. It appears that he is lying on his back, submerged. The bald doctor with glasses reaches toward him with a syringe. 
I'm not sure if it's new material or from a prior source. 
Here's the dialogue: 

"Hold him steady. Be ready to go subcutaneous as soon as I give the word." 
"Will he remember anything?" 
"He doesn't even remember his own name." 
"Does he have a name?" 
"What does it matter? He's ours now." 
"What was his name before he came here?" 
"Logan." 

Issue #2 has NO flashbacks
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 10 Sep 2004 08:26 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Are any of the Weapon X staff other than the Professor identifiable in the flashback in #1? 

-Sean

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 02:20 pm    
By Ant-Man

I'm afraid not...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

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Posted: 13 Sep 2004 02:40 pm  
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Sounds new to me. Thanks, Brian! 

-Jeph!

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Thread 69

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 02:10 am    Post subject: Question
By Jim Smith

The guide to issue analysis is a little vague. Can anyone post here with an issue analysis of any comic, or is there some structure to it that I'm unaware of? For example, the MCP entries for most of the Thunderbolts doesn't go much past Thunderbolts #57, and I'm sure I could help with that, but for all I know someone's hard at work on it already.

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Posted: 15 Sep 2004 08:47 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

We've actually been discussing re-framing what's acceptable for the Issue Analysis forum, but the short answer (in this mod's opinion), is this: 

Post anything you want. All analyses are welcome. If someone else is busily working on an analysis of the same book -- we'll gladly accept both! Don't think of it as stealing another poster's thunder -- think of it as complementing their work. And if you both come to different conclusions about chronological placement, hopefully the discussion will yield positive results! 

So, please post as many analyses as you like! 

-Jeph! 
except the Marvel-UK Captain Britain books. Those are mine. Grarr.

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Posted: 15 Sep 2004 09:35 am    
By Dhall

I can't speak to what anybody else has been working on/ is working on, but in the recent past I've been posting analysis for various X-Books that fall into the second gap. I'm sure I've missed a few. You can always read over this thread, and see who has been doing what in the past, but multiple analysis of a book can only be a good thing..... 


You do pose a question though, is anything post 2001 up for grabs? Perhaps we should start calling this the third gap, and post a list of what books are in need of analysis. 

Dave H

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Posted: 15 Sep 2004 05:41 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Dhall wrote: 
You do pose a question though, is anything post 2001 up for grabs? Perhaps we should start calling this the third gap, and post a list of what books are in need of analysis. 


If the book is not a) already in the Project or b) in the first gap, then we welcome an Issue Analysis. 


watching: ivan

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Posted: 15 Sep 2004 06:47 pm    
By SeanCurtin

...and even if the book is already analyzed, if you think its placement needs revision, additional analysis and comments are always helpful. 

-Sean

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Thread 70

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 02:36 am    Post subject: Thunderbolts #58-64
By Jim Smith

This'll be the first of three analyses covering Thunderbolts #58-81, which have yet to be listed on the MCP. I've never done this before, so any criticism, corrections, or pointers will be appreciated. 

Some general Notes: The MCP lists Helmut Zemo under ZEMO II/HELMUT ZEMO, which seems an odd nomenclature to me. In fact, each of the Zemos is listed differently--Helmut's wife is BARONESS ZEMO/HEIKE, his mother is ZEMO, BARONESS HILDA, and his father is ZEMO/BARON HEINRICH ZEMO. To make it more complicated, inevitably the MCP will be adding Helmut's ancestor Harbin (from Avengers/Thunderbolts #1 and #6). For simplicity's sake, I suggest listing all five characters in the format of LAST NAME, TITLE FIRST NAME, and perhaps a notice of "BARON ZEMO see Zemo" somewhere in the B's. 

I'm also referring to John Watkins III, who has been the one and only Citizen V since Thunderbolts #48, as the fourth Citizen V. Dialogue has suggested that Watkins was active prior to Baron Zemo's use of the name in Thunderbolts #1-10. This effectively makes Zemo the fifth Citizen V and Dallas Riordan the sixth. 

A particularly hairy problem with this run of Thunderbolts is how to list Atlas and Riordan, whose minds co-exist in Dallas's body in #57-74. When Dallas's body used Atlas's powers, she became a being of ionic energy, and Atlas was the dominant personality; in her normal human form, Dallas was in control and there was no indication of Atlas's presence. As such, I'm treating all of this merged being's appearances as Dallas appearances (it's her body, even when it's glowing red), but I'm only crediting Atlas with a full appearance when we see their ionic form. Since both forms appear in nearly every issue, this only comes up in Thunderbolts #59, which I count as a behind-the-scenes appearance for Atlas. 

Beginning in Thunderbolts #59, much of the book is set on the second Counter-Earth, the analogue of the "real" Earth from Franklin Richards's pocket universe, which was relocated into the mainstream MU in Heroes Reborn: Doom. Virtually every major character on Counter-Earth is an alternate-universe variation of someone else in the Marvel Universe, which makes listing them all a real pain. For the purpose of these analyses I'm listing any and all characters indiginous to Counter-Earth with the same system used for characters from the Mutant X-verse. Therefore the character listed in the MCP as BUCKY VII/RIKKI BARNES is noted here as BUCKY/RIKKI BARNES | COUNTER-EARTH. (For the record, I don't know whether to say "Counter-Earth," "Counter-Earth II," or "Franklinverse," so comments would be helpful.) 

*** 

TB 58/THUNDERBOLTS #58 (Cover date: January 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza and pencilled by Patrick Zircher 

Synopsis: Continuing where Thunderbolts #57 left off; Graviton has killed the Redeemers and suspended the world's superheroes in the sky, forcing the Thunderbolts to reunite and defeat him. 

Appearances: 
Atlas/Erik Stephan Josten 
Ant-Man II/Scott Lang 
Captain America/Steven Rogers 
Captain Marvel III/Genis-Vell 
Citizen V IV/John Watkins III 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Cottonmouth/Quincy McIver 
Cyclops/ Scott Summers 
Darkstar/Laynia Sergeievna Petrovna 
Destroyer II/Roger Aubrey 
Doc Samson/Leonard Samson 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Graviton/Franklin Hall 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Headlok/Murray Singleton 
Hellcat/Patsy Walker Baxter Hellstrom 
Le Peregrine/Franck Racine 
M'Reel 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Mentallo/Marvin Flumm 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Nighthawk II/Kyle Richmond 
Plantman/Samuel Smithers 
Scream/David Angar 
Silver Scorpion/Elisabeth "Betty" Barstow 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 
Sub-Mariner/Namor McKenzie 
Valkyrie IV/Samantha Parrington 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. 

Flashback, page 10, panel 6 

Appearances: Hawkeye, Dum Dum Dugan 

Hawkeye recalls his meeting with Dum Dum Dugan at Seagate, shortly after their scene in Thunderbolts #52, page 16, panel 3. 

Notes: In Thunderbolts #57 we see a splash page of the world's heroes being suspended in the air by Graviton. In this issue Graviton releases them, and we're shown some of these characters being lowered to the ground. I am unsure whether the following characters should be credited with behind-the-scenes appearances: Aegis, Anarchist, Andromeda II, Archangel, Aragorn, Black Knight V, Black Panther, Black Widow II, Crystal, Dagger, Daredevil, Doop, Firebird, Firestar, Ghost Rider III, Hercules, Hulk, Human Torch II, Invisible Woman, Iron Fist, Iron Man, Jack of Hearts, Justice, Moon Knight, Namorita, Nova, Orphan II, Phat, Phoenix IV, Punisher II, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Red Wolf III, Shang-Chi, Shooting Star, Silverclaw, Speedball, Spider-Man, Steel Guardian, Stingray, Sub-Mariner, Texas Twister, Thing, Thor, Tigra, Triathlon, U-Go Girl, USAgent, Vision, Vivisector, Vostok, Warbird, Wasp, Wolverine, Wonder Man, and Yellowjacket. 

*** 

TB 59/THUNDERBOLTS #59 (Cover Date: February 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Mark Bagley 

Synopsis: Scream, now revealed to be Angar the Screamer, has rematerialized from Graviton's attack in #56. He absorbs all sound in the Burton Canyon area, hoping to force SHIELD and Songbird to find a way to destroy him. Songbird absorbs Angar's energies into her sonic carapace and destroys it. Meanwhile, the other Thunderbolts awaken on Counter-Earth. 

Appearances: 

Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten (BTS) 
Chain Lightning | Counter-Earth 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Iron Cross/Helmut J. Zemo | Counter-Earth 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Makeshift | Counter-Earth 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Phantom Eagle/Lloyd Bloch | Counter-Earth 
Radek 
Scream/David Angar 
Solarr | Counter-Earth 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 
Zemo, Baron Heinrich | Counter-Earth 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. (BTS) 

Flashback, pages 10-11 

Appearances: Screaming Mimi, Angar the Screamer/Scream, Baron Zemo, Fixer. 

Expanding on the scene in Thunderbolts '97, pages 10-13, Angar is shot during a bank robbery and dies. Baron Zemo and the Fixer take Screaming Mimi to safety. They also collect Angar's body for further study, while testing Angar's larynx create Scream, a creature of pure sonic energy which is now known to be Angar. 

Flashback, pages 12-13 

Appearances: Scourge III, the Fixer, Miles Warton, Scream 

Set shortly after the events of Thunderbolts #39. Scourge has killed Baron Zemo and led a CSA team to sweep Zemo's base. A worker can be seen carting the Fixer's dormant organic body through the lab, while another examines Angar's larynx. In Washington, V-Battalion operative Miles Warton (working undercover as a CSA data analyst), watches as the larynx is tested to reactivate Scream. 

Notes: This issue seems to be the final appearance of SHIELD agent Radek, who appeared in Thunderbolts #53, #54, and #57. Radek was never given a rank or a first name, to my knowledge. 

*** 

TB 60/THUNDERBOLTS #60 (Cover date: March 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Patrick Zircher 

Synopsis: The Thunderbolts discover themselves on Counter-Earth and debate whether to return to their own world or save this one from Counter-Earth's version of the Thunderbolts. Baron Zemo reveals to the Fixer that his discorporated mind now inhabit's Fixer's equipment. 

Appearances: 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Chain Lightning | Counter-Earth 
Citizen V IV/John Watkins III 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Cottonmouth/Quincy McIver 
Destroyer II/Roger Aubrey 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Headlok/Murray Singleton 
Iron Cross/Helmut J. Zemo | Counter-Earth 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Makeshift | Counter-Earth 
Mentallo/Marvin Flumm 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Phantom Eagle/Lloyd Bloch | Counter-Earth 
Plantman/Samuel Smithers 
Silver Scorpion/Elisabeth "Betty" Barstow 
Solarr | Counter-Earth 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 
Sterman, Andrea "Andie" 
Zemo, Baron Heinrich | Counter-Earth 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. 

Notes: The V-Battalion scene leads in this issue into the Citizen V & The V: Battalion: The Everlasting miniseries. 

*** 

TB 61/THUNDERBOLTS #61 (Cover date: April 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Patrick Zircher 

Synopsis: The Thunderbolts head for Germany to stow away aboard a rocket that the Counter-Earth Thunderbolts plan to use to acheive world domination. Hawkeye and his "chain gang" continue to evade capture on their way to Vancouver. Songbird agrees to track down Hawkeye on behalf of SHIELD. 

Appearances: 

Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Chain Lightning | Counter-Earth 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Cottonmouth/Quincy McIver 
Dugan, Timothy Aloyisious "Dum Dum" 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Headlok/Murray Singleton 
Iron Cross/Helmut J. Zemo | Counter-Earth 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Makeshift | Counter-Earth 
Mentallo/Marvin Flumm 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Phantom Eagle/Lloyd Bloch | Counter-Earth 
Plantman/Samuel Smithers 
Solarr | Counter-Earth 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 
Zemo, Baron Heinrich | Counter-Earth 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. 

Flashback, page 11, panel 1 

Appearances: Techno/Fixer 

Techno places his human body in suspended animation as a failsafe in the event that is robotic body is destroyed. This scene presumably occurs shortly after Thunderbolts #8. (Note that Fixer claims here that he and the robot Techno are different individuals; however, he admits in Thunderbolts #75 that his mind was indeed transferred back and forth from both beings.) 

*** 

TB 62/THUNDERBOLTS #62 (Cover date: May 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Patrick Zircher 

Synopsis: The Thunderbolts board the rocket to escape to Earth, but decide at the last minute to foil the plans of the Counter-Earth Thunderbolts and stay to protect the planet. Baron Zemo's disembodied mind usurps the body of his counterpart, Counter-Earth's Iron Cross, and kills Counter-Earth's Heinrich Zemo, before reintroducing himself to his former teammates. 

Appearances: 
Anaomaly/Koyami Sazaki | Counter-Earth 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Bucky/Rikki Barnes | Counter-Earth 
Chain Lightning | Counter-Earth 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Iron Cross/Helmut J. Zemo | Counter-Earth 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
Kid Colt/Elric Freedom Whitemane | Counter-Earth 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Makeshift | Counter-Earth 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Phantom Eagle/Lloyd Bloch | Counter-Earth 
Rip | Counter-Earth 
Solarr | Counter-Earth 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 
Toro/Benito Seranno | Counter-Earth 
Zemo, Baron Heinrich | Counter-Earth 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. 

Notes: I'm counting this as the final appearance of Counter-Earth's Iron Cross/Helmut Zemo, even though his body continues to appear with the mainstream MU Helmut's mind inhabiting it. For all intents and purposes, Iron Cross's mind was wiped out and died when Zemo usurped his body. I wouldn't be surprised if we one day learn Iron Cross's mind is still in there somewhere, but until then I consider him dead. 

*** 

TB 63/THUNDERBOLTS #63 (Cover date: June 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Patrick Zircher 

Synopsis: Songbird tracks Hawkeye and his "chain gang" to Vancouver, where Cyclone attempts to steal a disc containing information left behind by the late Justin Hammer. On Counter-Earth, Zemo leads the Thunderbolts to that world's version of the Inhuman city of Attilan. 

Appearances: 

Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Headlok/Murray Singleton 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Cottonmouth/Quincy McIver 
Cyclone III/Pierre Fresson 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Mentallo/Marvin Flumm 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Plantman/Samuel Smithers 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. 

Note: Songbird stops off at a costume shop called "Rogues Gallery Costumes" in Bellingham, Washington, and in the narrative she explains that the tailor provides outfits for supervillains. The character strikes me as having appeared before, but this is the first I've seen of him. He's not given a name (aside from "the tailor," so I have no way of investigating further.) 

When Hawkeye and company arrive at Crecy Enterprises in Vancouver, they meet with a man named Carpenter who may also have appeared previously, although I wouldn't know where. (The only male named Carpenter in the MCP is Larry Carpenter, husband of Spider-Woman II, who's dead.) 

*** 

TB 64/THUNDERBOLTS #64 (Cover date: July 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Patrick Zircher 

Synopsis: On Counter-Earth, the Thunderbolts set up a base in Attilan, and begin saving the world. 

Appearances: 

Anaomaly/Koyami Sazaki | Counter-Earth 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Black Mamba/Tanya Sealy 
Cardinal/Donald Joshua Clendenon 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Crimson Cowl II/Justine Hammer 
Cyclone III/Pierre Fresson 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Gypsy Moth/Sybil Dvorak 
Hyrdo-Man/Morrie Bench 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Machinesmith/Starr Saxon 
Man-Killer/Katrina Luisa Van Horn 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. 

Flashback, page 4, panel 1-2 

Appearance: Techno 

Techno programs a failsafe that will transmit Baron Zemo's mind to the body of John Watkins III in the event of Zemo's death. Presumably set shortly before Thunderbolts #14. 

Notes: Pages 1-5 of this issue occur prior to Thunderbolts #63.

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Posted: 17 Sep 2004 08:33 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Jim Smith wrote: 
>>>
Notes: Pages 1-5 of this issue occur prior to Thunderbolts #63. 
<<<


Which characters appear in pages 1-5, and which in pages 6 and up? 


watching: american morning

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Posted: 17 Sep 2004 01:35 pm    
By Jim Smith

Yeah, I realized forgot to explain that about an hour after I posted it. 

Atlas, Dallas Riordan, Fixer, Jolt, MACH-3, Moonstone, and Zemo are the only characters who appear in pages 1-5. 

They also appear in pages 6 and up, along with Black Mamba, Cardinal, Crimson Cowl, Cyclone, Hydro-Man, Machinesmith, and Man-Killer.

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Thread 71

Posted: 12 Sep 2004 10:09 pm    Post subject: SGT. FURY & HIS HOWLING COMMANDOS #100
By RLG

I'm not sure if this has been analyzed before, but I cannot find any reference to it in the characters that appear. 

SGT. FURY & HIS HOWLING COMMANDOS #100 

TITLE: "100th Anniversary" - given in word balloon by Stan Lee 
COVER DATE: July 1972 
PAGE COUNT: 20 
EDITOR: Stan Lee 
WRITER: Gary Friedrich 
ARTIST: Dick Ayers 
INKER: Mike Esposito 
LETTERER: Artie Simek 

CHARACTERS (in order of appearance): 
Stan Lee (Stanley Lieber) 
Col. Nick Fury 
Captain America (Steve Rogers) 
Mr.Fantastic (Reed Richards) 
Human Torch II (Johnny Storm) 
Invisible Girl (Susan Storm Richards) 
Thing (Benjamin J. Grimm) 
Martin Goodman - magazine's publisher 
Dick Ayers - magazine's artist 
Gary Friedrich - magazine's writer 
Timothy Aloyisius "Dum Dum" Dugan 
Dino Manelli 
Robert "Reb" Ralston (introduced as a U.S. Representative by Nick Fury) 
Eric Koenig (currently a SHIELD agent) 
"Izzy" Cohen 
Gabe Jones 
Assassin #1 (white male with brown hair and moustche - name given as "Marvin") 
Assassin #2 (unnamed bald white male with moustache) 
three unnamed SHIELD agents (all piloting SHIELD one-man hovercrafts) 
Mrs. Cohen ("Izzy's wife - assumption based on female at his bedside in the hospital at the end of the story. Izzy is mentioned as being married in this story) 

OTHER CHARACTERS: 
unknown number of dinner attendees 
two unnamed NYPD patrolmen - both killed in this issue 
three unnamed female motorcyclists 
unnamed taxi driver 
unnamed medical doctor 
two unnamed orderlies 
various hospital staff 

SYNOPSIS: 
Stan Lee hosts a special dinner at the Eastside Plaza commerating the Sgt. Fury comic's 100th issue. He introduces Col. Nick Fury, who takes to the podium and recognizes various celebrities in the audience - Captain America, the Fantastic Four, and Martin Goodman. Nick introduces the Howling Commandos to the crowd, including US Representative Robert "Reb" Ralston. The introduction ends with Gabe Jones blowing a deafening note on his bugle. The crowd gives the group a standing ovation. 

In the balcony above, two assassins observe the celebration. As Marvin takes aim at Reb Ralston's right temple, his unnamed partner comments that Ralston won't be writing any more Civil Rights legislation. Marvin fires the sniper rifle and Ralston drops to the ground right at the Howling Commandos feet. As Nick takes charge of the crisis, the two assassins make their escape outside, gunning down two NYPD patrolmen in the process. 

Fury and the other Howling Commandos exit the Plaza in time to spot the assassins entering a taxi cab. Dum Dum Dugan radios SHIELD units to converge on 5th Ave. between 59th and 42nd St. Nick, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, and Izzy Cohen commendeer motorcycles from a nearby group of female cyclists, leaving Dum Dum behind to smooth things over with the women and to act as Nick's radio man. 

At gunpoint, the cab driver is commanded to turn off of 5th Ave. Nick calls Dum Dum at 45th St and 5th Ave. and tells Dum Dum to get the a SHIELD hovercraft partol in on the chase. During the chase across the city, Izzy crashes his motorcycle and is seriously injured. Nick tells Dino and Gabe to stay with Izzy as he continues the pursuit. 

At the Plaza, Stan Lee asks the doctor who has arrived what Reb's outlook. The doctor informs Stan that Reb must get to a hosptial if he is to have any chance of surviving. Hearing this, Stan sheds a tear. 

Nick continues the chase northbound on 3rd Ave. The trio of SHIELD hovercrafts arrive at the taxi turns onto 59th St. The assassins demand the cabbie take them across the 59th St. bridge and to the airport. Overcoming his fear, the cab driver has a burst of courage and purposly wrecks his vehicle near the bridge. 

As Nick arrives at the scene of the wreck, the assassins take to foot. Marvin fires at Nick, but one of the SHIELD hovercraft agents fires and kills the assassin. Nick orders his men to back off - the other assassin is his to deal with. Nick and the assassin fight hand-to-hand on the bridge until the assassin knocks Nick over the side. Nick, however, has managed to get a hand-hold before falling and climbs back to the top. The assassin turns and draws his weapon, but Nick is faster with his. The assassin falls to his death into the water below. 

Later, the Howling Commandos and the magazine's staff visit Reb and Izzy in the hospital. As Izzy is being comforted by his wife (assumed), he comments on the hate-filled motivation of the assassins. Being Jewish, and knowing full well the effects of prejudice, he is glad that men like Reb are in Congress. As Gary Friedrich hopes for a peaceful future, the radio plays the Coca-Cola jingle "I'd like to teach the world to sing..." 

COMMENTS: 
1) No real reference to time of year. Most characters are sui tjackets and sport coats. At least one of the female cyclists is wearing a mini-skirt. 

2) The story (at least pages 1-19) takes place during one afternoon. 

3) The visit to Reb and Izzy's hospital room (page 20) most likely takes place sometime a few days later. Both Reb and Izzy are fully awake and on the road to recovery, a condition (especially if Reb had been hit in the temple) that would take some time to achieve. 

4) Speaking of which, the sniper rifle's scope was clearly trained on Reb's head, but in the hosptial no bandages are seen on him. In fact, Izzy looks far worse as he head and right eye are bandaged. 

5) The motivation of the assassins, although known to use readers, was never expressed in front of Nick & Co. It is possible that the SHIELD hovercraft agent used a mercy bullet when Marvin was shot, but no clear evidence is given either way. Nick & SHIELD could have simply done some background checks on the two killers and found out their motivation. 

6) Way to chip in Captain America & FF. All five are curiously absent when the assassins strike. 

7) On a personal note, as a fan who grew up with the image of Stan Lee circa the Pizazz magazine ads, it is very odd to see him portrayed with a Beatle's style haircut and neatly trimmed beard. 

- RLG

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Posted: 12 Sep 2004 10:38 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Thanks, RLG. Thumbs up. 


watching: kansas city v. denver

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Posted: 14 Sep 2004 10:13 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Here's my take on chronological placement of this story. 

I start with Cap, because I think that his before and after appearances in the Official Marvel Index to the Avengers can help. Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commadoes #100 has the same cover date (July 1972) as Avengers #101, so let's start here. 

There is a long gap of time between A 100 and A 101 (February to October, according to vol. 1 of the Avengers Index), so putting Sgt. Fury #100 sometime in this gap would make sense. Now the Avengers Index vol. 2 has Cap's next appearance after A 100 as pt. 2 of CA 144. There are no breaks in Cap's continuity through these appearances: 
CA 144 (pt. 2) 
CA 145 
CA 146 
CA 147 
CA 148 
CA 185-FB 

Cap's last appearance prior to A 101 (according to Index vol. 2) is H2 152. Thus, Cap can appear in Sgt. Fury #100 between CA 185-FB and H2 152. (I'm assuming, of course, that by the time Avengers Index vol. 2 came out, the chronologists were aware of Sgt. Fury #100.) 

So if Cap is in Sgt. Fury #100 at this point in his chronology, how does that comic fit into the FF's chronology? It would automatically place the FF there during the "several months" (according to the Official Marvel Index to the Fantastic Four) between FF 125 (cover date August 1972) and 126. When the FF Index was published, "chronological analysis of Marvel's comics during this interval is still far from complete," although appearances in M/TU 3 (cover date July 1972), M/TU 6, and H2 152-153 were known. We've established that Sgt. Fury #100 should occur before H2 152. So our choices are: between FF 125 and M/TU 3, between M/TU 3 and M/TU 6, or between M/TU 6 and H2 152. The Official Marvel Index to Marvel Team-Up doesn't help us in this regard, as it came out around the time of the FF Index, when chronological analysis was incomplete. 

Given the cover dates of FF 125 and M/TU 3, I'm inclined to place Sgt. Fury #100 between those two issues. 

This means that Nick Fury is in Sgt. Fury #100 between H2 148 and 152. 

Whatcha think?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 15 Sep 2004 06:09 pm    
By RLG

Paul, as I see it, this could go either way, with your "Avengers Index vol.2" assumtion giving your placement the edge. However, with my "October, Year 6" placement, it would make it alot easier to insert into the Avengers calendar. 

Your placement would have SGTF 100 occuring sometime during July to (early?) October of that year. I would be curious as to were you would place it in the Avengers calendar. There is always the uneventful August of that year.. Ha-Ha! 

I've been meaning to ask something since our Year 17-20 calendar message thread. When you cover the Heroes Reborn period, are you planning to incorportate that world's calendar dates with the dates in the Marvel world? And not to rush you, but do you have a rough ETA on that upcoming calendar? 

Please remember my offer to help. For example, I'm currently reading the Spider-Man titles from Ben Reilly's death to around Heroes Return and I'm taking notes on temporal references, etc. I've already seen a problem involving the bite Morbius gave on Peter's neck. 

- RLG

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Posted: 15 Sep 2004 09:22 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Your placement would have SGTF 100 occuring sometime during July to (early?) October of that year. I would be curious as to were you would place it in the Avengers calendar. There is always the uneventful August of that year.. Ha-Ha!  
<<<

You hit the nail on the head, RLG. That's exactly where I put it! I really need to update that Avengers: Year By Year feature. However: 1) the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes series will necessitate more updates soon; and 2) the Avengers Assemble web site seems to be growing cobwebs. I haven't touched base with Van Plexico for many moons. 


Quote: 
>>>
I've been meaning to ask something since our Year 17-20 calendar message thread. When you cover the Heroes Reborn period, are you planning to incorportate that world's calendar dates with the dates in the Marvel world? 
<<<

Funny you should bring that up. I have only a few of the Heroes Reborn books for one main reason: as those months unfolded, I never thought the Heroes Reborn-verse would end up as canon! So I never set out to collect them, and the few I have were scrounged from the quarter bin after Heroes Return. And the general consensus seems to be that I didn't miss much in the way of quality stories. 

All this is preamble to a request: I really would appreciate chronological analysis of all the Heroes Reborn issues. 

I have left space in the calendar for these issues, with the heroes disappearing on October 11 of Year 18 and reappearing on February 27 of Year 19. (Heroes Reborn: The Return cannot take place on the one-year "anniversary" of Onslaught: Marvel Universe. Note to self: do I have issues with "year to the day" references?) This span of time is based on those titles that actually occur on Earth. Temporal references on Counter-Earth during this period would be interesting. We can't assume that seasons will be the same, as Counter-Earth is on the opposite side of the sun. If the axes of both worlds are titled the same way, then winter in the northern hemisphere of Earth will occur at the same time as summer in the northern hemisphere of Counter-Earth. (Is there an illustration of the two worlds showing their tilts respective to one another?) 


Quote: 
>>>
Please remember my offer to help. For example, I'm currently reading the Spider-Man titles from Ben Reilly's death to around Heroes Return and I'm taking notes on temporal references, etc. I've already seen a problem involving the bite Morbius gave on Peter's neck.  
<<<

I appreciate the offer, RLG. I have all those Spidey comics laid out on a tentative calendar and I might call on you and Antonio (our Spidey expert, if he's willing) to fill in the details. (See below.) 


Quote: 
>>>
And not to rush you, but do you have a rough ETA on that upcoming calendar?  
<<<

Well, I'm extending it back to the Infinity Gauntlet now and I'm still working on the first step -- compiling a skeleton calendar from my old notes. Right now, I'm working on chronologies from before the gap, so I'm using MCP listings during this first step as well. I'm grappling with a number of discrepencies between the sequencing of appearances in various characters' MCP listings. 

Next, I'll need to actually "re-read" all the comics listed, in the order I've tentatively placed them, to see if sequencing and timing make sense, and to make sure I didn't miss key clues the first time around. That's when I'll flesh out the calendar entries a little with some brief plot notes. Perhaps, though, that's where some help can speed things up a bit. I'll need to think about how that can work. 

I'm doing all this as I get the chance. A good chunk of my chronology time is spent just keeping up with current chronology and, apparently, trying in vain to keep up with Jeph on the number of posts I make here.  My guess is that the next installment will be next year sometime.  Considering how long it took me to do what's posted, I think that's realistic.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 09:32 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Actually, Paul, I'm pretty sure that the Heroes Reborn Earth wasn't on the far side of the sun during the "Heroes Reborn" comics -- it was tucked away in another dimension. It's fairly conceivable that time might have passed differently, there inside Franklin's blue ball... 

(If memory serves, the HR world was brought to our dimension, and left orbiting the sun, some time later -- possibly during the "Doom/Doomsday" event books around the same time as FF #25.) 

And as for number of posts ... I sit at work all day with no access to comics and plenty of access to the internet. I'm surprised I don't make more posts. 

...God, I need a life.  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 10:01 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Ah, yes. I do believe you're right. And that really lets us off the hook concerning temporal references in the Franklin-verse and their applicability to the calendar.  

Nonetheless, it would be great to get some analyses so I can place those Heroes Reborn issues somewhere and in the right order.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 05:07 am  
By RLG

A chronological analysis of the Heroes Reborn titles? Consider it done! I will post them here (unless it is inappropriate due to "calendar" work as opposed to "MCP" work.) I'll try to format them a bit more like George O's 1980's work. It sounds as if I've got some time before they are really needed, so they might come in drips and drabs. 

Going back to Infinity Gauntlet?? - WOW!!! 

BTW, when do you think I.G. might have (roughly) occured - month/year?? 

- RLG

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 06:57 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
A chronological analysis of the Heroes Reborn titles? Consider it done! I will post them here (unless it is inappropriate due to "calendar" work as opposed to "MCP" work.) I'll try to format them a bit more like George O's 1980's work. It sounds as if I've got some time before they are really needed, so they might come in drips and drabs.  
<<<

Thanks, RLG! 


Quote: 
>>>
Going back to Infinity Gauntlet?? - WOW!!! 

BTW, when do you think I.G. might have (roughly) occured - month/year??  
<<<

You are trying to tease this stuff out of me, eh?  

Too early to tell. The tangle of inconsistent MCP listings occurs between Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War. I need to unknot those and order the "skeleton" entries with respect to temporal references. Then I'll have an idea of how long before Infinity War to place Infinity Gauntlet. That'll take several weeks.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 08:26 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

This thread is SO not about Sgt. Fury #100 anymore. 

I think there was an actual month reference in "Infinity Gauntlet" -- as the earth drifts away from the sun and snow starts to fall, someone (Wolverine, I think) remarks "Snow? In April?" 

It might not be "April" -- my memory is playing tricks on me lately -- but he does say a certain month. 

Of course, that month reference may turn out to be topical ... but hey. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 01:48 pm    
By Peter Fabricius

Infinity Gauntlet #3 page 31 

Quote: 
'Snow? In May? 

_________________
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 04:58 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I was close.  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 10:09 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Yup, it's May. I suspect that won't work, but I'm hoping that at least it will be a month in which one doesn't normally see snow. 

Hmm. I wonder if the last several posts should be moved to a new thread?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 03:38 pm    
By RLG

Don't ask me.. I'm too busy poppin' MAJOR aspirin as I go through this Heroes Reborn stuff! 

- RLG

			*	*	*

Thread 72

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 02:10 am    Post subject: New Warriors vol. 1 #11-13: Forever Yesterday
By SeanCurtin

New Warriors #11-13 are only listed in the MCP in the chronologies for the Sphinxes, Sayge, and a few appearances in NW 13. The storyline inolves the Sphinx temporarily altering reality, and the appearances within should be counted like those of other stories that involved alteration of reality and time, like Infinity Gauntlet and the Kulan Gath arc in Uncanny X-Men. 

Several, but not all, members of the New Warriors make appearances in the unaltered timeline at the end; only Nova, Night Thrasher, Firestar and Marvel Boy appear there. (Namorita doesn't appear at all in NW 11 or 13, only in #12.) 

Even if the MCP doesn't incorporate the altered reality events of these issues, the Sphinx's chronology needs to have NW 11-BTS changed to NW 11 and Namorita's chronology needs to have NW 13 removed. 

New Warriors vol. 1 #11 (May 1991) 
"Forever Yesterday Part 1: Days of Present Past" 

New Memphis City, New Memphis, in the Sphinx's altered reality. The Mutant Liberation Front (Cannonball, Marvel Man (Vance Astrovik) and Firestar) battle the Sphinx's Avengers (Captain Assyria, Storm, Iron Man ("Tony", presumably an altered Tony Stark), Horus, Sceptre (Monica Rambeau, and new recruit Nova (Richard Rider)). The MLF's retreat is covered by Wolverine, who is slain. After, Nova is increasingly unsettled by the world he lives in; at home, he encounters the conceptual being Sayge. The MLF team meet up with the rest of the MLF, led by Magneto. Sayge shows Nova the history of the world as it has been altered by the Sphinx: the original Sphinx, Anath-Na Mut, killed Moses in this altered timeline, and instead of finding the immortality-granting Ka Stone in exile, he was given it by the woman who would become the second Sphinx. The Sphinx rules the Middle East and the Americas, and when the heroic age occurs in this altered world a number of heroes and villains are of African or Middle Eastern descent rather than European. The original Sphinx died of boredom in this reality, having left his love to become the new Sphinx, and having made her pet cat immortal as something to remember him by. Back in the present, the MLF contacts Reed Richards, a rebellious employee of the Sphinx, who is found out by Dwayne Taylor's father Dier (in normal reality, he's named Cord). Elsewhere, the Sphinx detects danger. 

Characters appearing: Cannonball II, Marvel Man/Vance Astrovik, Firestar, Nova/Richard Rider, Storm, Horus, Sceptre/Monica Rambeau, Iron Man/Tony (Stark?), Captain Assyria, Wolverine, Jamaal (altered Edwin Jarvis), Rich Rider's parents and brother Robbie, Sayge, Magneto, Beast, Unus, Blob, Rogue, Cyclops, Polaris, Juggernaut, unidentified man page 16 panel 4 (Forge?), Sebastian Shaw, Reed Richards, Cord Taylor (Deir Taylor in this world), Sphinx II. 

A number of characters cameo on page 26, but this is a generic group shot of how the Marvel characters look in this world, not an actual appearance; many of these characters do not make actual appearances in this story. Spider-Man, Rhino, Quicksand, Silver Surfer, Cloak and Dagger, Giant-Man (Black Goliath?), Captain Britain, the Fantastic Four and Adam Warlock are among the characters pictured in the group shot that don't make actual appearances. Oddly, Mister Fantastic and the Invisible Woman aren't Reed and Sue Richards in this reality; they're two different sets of characters. A golden-skinned man appears in #12-13 who may be Warlock, but he's wearing his normal costume here but wasn't wearing much of anything there. 

New Warriors vol. 1 #12 (June 1991) 
"Forever Yesterday Past 2: A Betrayal of Hope" 

The MLF, using Richards' assistance, infiltrate Maqaman (Manhattan) Island, home of the Sphinx. The Avengers mobilize, but begin to doubt the Sphinx, while Sayge tells Nova how history actually occured. Magneto and Emma Frost meet with Namor and Namorita, while the Richards and Taylor families are gunned down by the Sphinx's agents. The MLF are found by the Avengers, and Nova switches sides, helping the MLF disable Maqaman's force field. Magneto and the full ranks of the MLF appear, as does the twenty-story Sphinx. 

Characters appearing: Cannoball II, Firestar, Marvel Man/Vance Astrovik, Beast, Juggernaut, Sebastian Shaw, Sphinx II, Captain Assyria, Storm, Iron Man, Horus, Sceptre, Nova/Richard Rider and his parents and brother, Sayge, Magneto, Emma Frost, Namor, Namorita, Reed Richards, Sue Richards, Franklin Richards, the Richards' infant daughter (possibly named Alicia), Deir Taylor, Claire Taylor, Dwayne Taylor, and a number of characters in the group shot on page 30 panel 2. 

Characters appearing in the group shot: Magneto, Cyclops, Scalphunter, Rogue, Sunstroke, Nova II/Frankie Raye, Emma Frost, Nekra, Mandrill, Sandman, Sabretooth, Angel, Polaris, Vision II, Gargoyle/Isaac Christians, Hulk, Havok, Human Torch II, Wolfsbane, Abomination, Toad, X-Ray and Vector of the U-Foes, golden-skinned man (Glorian? Adam Warlock?), hairy bearded man, muscular bald man (Sunder?), unidentified energy-wielder, unidentified man in red and green (Unus? Wonder Man?), unidentified caped figure, ten other unidentified figures. The group shot carries over directly into the main fight scene in #13, and all characters seen here are either seen or BTS there, and vice versa. 

Characters appearing in flashback: Sphinx I and Moses; then Sphinx I & II, shortly afterwards; then Sphinx II, over a course of millennia ending in the near-present. 

New Warriors vol. 1 #13 (July 1991) 
"Forever Yesterday Part 3: A World for the Winning" 

The Sphinx fights a vastly outgunned MLF while Dwayne Taylor bluffs his way into her headquarters. He grabs her cat, hoping to use it as emotional leverage against her; she teleports home and attacks him. Sayge directs the New Warriors (Nova, Firestar and Marvel Man) to follow her. Nova threatens to kill the cat, and Sayge forces her to face reality. She restores normality, causing the four assembled New Warriors to forget all that had occurred, and departs, vowing vengeance. 

Characters appearing: Emma Frost, Gargoyle/Isaac Christians, Abomination, Nova/Richard Rider, Marvel Man/Vance Astrovik, Rogue, Toad, Sunstroke, Cyclops, Cannonball, Firestar, Vision, Havok, Blob, Magneto, Polaris, Firestar, Sandman, Sabretooth, Human Torch, Hulk, Wolfsbane, unidentified man in red, unidentified gold man, unidentified hairy man, nine others unidentified on page 1, Vector, unidentified woman with brown ponytail on page 2-3 panel 1 (probably not Nekra), Sphinx II, X-Ray, Juggernaut, Nova II/Frankie Raye, unidentified energy-wielder (page 8 panel 1, page 15 panel 2), unidentified bald man in green (page 8 panel 1; Karnak??), Sayge, Dwayne Taylor, Nightcrawler, Banshee, Colossus, Horus, Iron Man, Captain Assyria, Sceptre, Robbie Baldwin and his father, Robbie's friend Dave (established character?). 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 09:08 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Dwayne Taylor's father wasn't named Cord -- Chord was a separate character. Dwayne's father was named, I think, Daryl. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 08:38 pm    
By SeanCurtin

I was pretty sure that I'd gotten it wrong. That was from memory - my New Warriors collection is spotty at best. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 73

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 11:16 pm    Post subject: Thunderbolts #65-75
By Jim Smith

Part two of my three-part analyses of Thunderbolts #58-81. The book went bi-weekly in the summer of 2002, with odd-numbered issues dealing with Hawkeye and Songbird forming a new team on Earth, while the even-numbered issues dealt with the other Thunderbolts stranded on Counter-Earth. 

*** 

TB 65/THUNDERBOLTS #65 (Cover date: Early August 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Patrick Zircher 

Synopsis: Hawkeye, Songbird, and Plantman investigate the connection between the disc Justin Hammer made before his death and Symkaria. They recruit some of the Crimson Cowl's Masters of Evil to help them. 

Appearances: 
Cardinal/Donald Joshua Clendenon (see Harrier for next appearance) 
Cyclone III/Pierre Fresson 
Gypsy Moth/Sybil Dvorak (see Skein for next appearance) 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Machinesmith/Starr Saxon 
Man-Killer/Katrina Luisa Van Horn (see Amazon for next appearance) 
Plantman/Samuel Smithers (see Blackheath for next appearance) 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 

*** 

TB 66/THUNDERBOLTS #66 (Cover date: Late August 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Chris Batista 

Synopsis: The Thunderbolts work to restore Counter-Earth from the planetwide disasters it has suffered. 

Appearances: 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Phantom Eagle/Lloyd Bloch | Counter-Earth 
Zemo/Baron Helmut J. 

*** 

TB 67/THUNDERBOLTS #67 (Cover date: Early September 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Patrick Zircher 

Synopsis: The Thunderbolts and Silver Sable agree to work together to stop the Crimson Cowl, but are defeated by the Masters of Evil. 

Appearances: 

Amazon/Katrina Luisa Van Horn (from Man-Killer) 
Blackheath/Samuel Smithers (from Plantman) 
Black Mamba/Tanya Sealy 
Crimson Cowl II/Justine Hammer 
Cyclone III/Pierre Fresson 
Harrier/Donald Joshua Clendenon (from Cardinal) 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Hydro-man/Morrie Bench 
Machinesmith/Starr Saxon 
Silver Sable 
Skein/Sybil Dvorak (from Gypsy Moth) 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 

Flashback, page 2 

Appearance: Cardinal as a boy, 33 years ago. 

Flashback, page 3 

Appearance: Cardinal, 25 years ago, in boot camp 

Flashback, page 4, panels 1-3 

Appearances: Sprocket and Cardinal, 21 years ago in Rhodesia, just before they have the fling which conceives Meteorite II (Valerie Barnhardt). 

Flashback, page 4, panel 4-5, and page 5 

Appearances: Sprocket visits Cardinal in prison and informs him that Meteorite II was his daughter, and has just been killed in Thunderbolts #56. Given that Meteorite's body could not be recovered until Gravtion's defeat, this scene probably occurs after Thunderbolts #57-59, but before Cardinal is freed from prison by the Masters of Evil in Thunderbolts #64. 

Notes: Several members of Silver Sable's Wild Pack are seen in this issue, but I couldn't determine whether they were established characters from Silver's own series, or nameless flunkies in the lower echelons of the organization. 

*** 

TB 68/THUNDERBOLTS #68 (Cover date: Late September 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Chris Batista 

Synopsis: The Phantom Eagle's moonstone begins to affect his sanity, and Moonstone is forced to take it from him. MACH-3 and Jolt investigate the spatial anomaly in Paris. 

Appearances: 
Anomaly/Koyami Sazaki | Counter-Earth 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Phantom Eagle/Lloyd Bloch | Counter-Earth 
Zemo/Baron Helmut J. 

*** 

TB 69/THUNDERBOLTS #69 (Cover date: Early October 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Jean Jacques Dzialowski 

Synopsis: The Thunderbolts are captured by the Crimson Cowl, but rally back and defeat her. Dum Dum Dugan and the Elite Agents of SHIELD arrive to confiscate Blackheath. 

Appearances: 

Amazon/Katrina Luisa Van Horn 
Blackheath/Samuel Smithers 
Black Mamba/Tanya Sealy 
Crimson Cowl II/Justine Hammer 
Cyclone III/Pierre Fresson 
Dugan, Timothy Aloyisious "Dum Dum" 
Harrier/Donald Joshua Clendenon 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Hydro-Man/Morrie Bench 
Kid/E.B. Farrell 
M-80/Sayuri Kyoto 
Machinesmith 
Nails II/Joanie Eaton 
Silicon/Gerald Simms 
Skein/Sybil Dvorak 
Skul/John Skulinowski 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 

Flashback, page 7 

Appearance: Justin Hammer 

"The Green" shows Blackheath how Justin Hammer developed the bio-toxin that threatens to kill anyone Hammer came in contact with. There is no indication of when this takes place, except for a line stating that Hammer developed the bio-toxin before he knew of a way to unleash it--that is, before he learned of the existence of Plantman/Blackheath. Since the bio-toxin is supposedly in the bodies of any super-villain Justin Hammer has ever come in contact with, I would put the scene prior to first appearance. Man-Killer/Amazon, for example, is shown to be infected with the toxin, but her only known association with Hammer was in Iron Man vol. 1 #126-127, one of Hammer's earliest appearances. 

*** 

TB 70/THUNDERBOLTS #70 (Cover date: Late October 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Stefano Caselli 

Synopsis: MACH-3 ventures into the void where Paris once stood, and destroys it, thereby allowing Anomaly to destroy Earth and Counter-Earth. (Or something. This issue always confused me.) 

Appearances: 

Appearances: 
Anomaly/Koyami Sazaki | Counter-Earth 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Rip | Counter-Earth 
Zemo/Baron Helmut J. 

*** 

TB 71/THUNDERBOLTS #71 (Cover date: Early November 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Manuel Garcia 

Synopsis: The Thunderbolts defeat the Elite Agents of SHIELD. Blackheath mutates into a humanoid plant-creature. Citizen V shows up to ask for the Thunderbolts help. 

Appearances: 

Amazon/Katrina Luisa Van Horn 
Blackheath/Samuel Smithers 
Black Mamba/Tanya Sealy 
Citizen V IV/John Watkins III 
Cyclone III/Pierre Fresson 
Dugan, Timothy Aloyisious "Dum Dum" 
Harrier/Donald Joshua Clendenon 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Hydro-Man/Morrie Bench 
Kid/E.B. Farrell 
M-80/Sayuri Kyoto 
Machinesmith 
Nails II/Joanie Eaton 
Silicon/Gerald Simms 
Skein/Sybil Dvorak 
Skul/John Skulinowski 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 

*** 

TB 72/THUNDERBOLTS #72 (Cover date: Late November 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Chris Batista 

Synopsis: The Thunderbolts investigate Anomaly and the null field empowering him, and battle the Young Allies to decide which world must be sacrificed to save the other. 

Appearances: 
Anomaly/Koyami Sazaki | Counter-Earth 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Bucky/Rikki Barnes | Counter-Earth 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
Kid Colt/Elric Freedom Whitemane | Counter-Earth 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Rip | Counter-Earth 
Toro/Benito Serrano | Counter-Earth 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. 

*** 

TB 73/THUNDERBOLTS #73 (Cover date: December 2002) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Manuel Garcia 

Synopsis: Hawkeye's Thunderbolts and Silver Sable agree to help Citizen V stop the void that has emerged in his ship, the Vanguard. As they attempt to plug the void with matter, Baron Zemo's Thunderbolts return from Counter-Earth. 

Appearances: 
Amazon/Katrina Luisa Van Horn 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten (bts) 
Blackheath/Samuel Smithers 
Citizen V IV/John Watkins III 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan (bts) 
Crimson Cowl II/Justine Hammer 
Cyclone III/Pierre Fresson 
Dugan, Timothy Aloyisious "Dum Dum" 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol (bts) 
Harrier/Donald Joshua Clendenon 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Human Torch/Jim Hammond 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins (bts) 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen (bts) 
Silver Sable 
Silver Scorpion/Elisabeth "Betty" Barstow 
Skein/Sybil Dvorak 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. 

Notes: See below for an examination of the chronology of T-bolts #73-74. 

When the Thunderbolts ask why the V-Battalion needs help with the void, Betty Barstow explains that their superhuman operatives were lost in the void. I assume she's referring to Topspin and Nuklo, who were the only superhuman operatives still active after Citizen V & The V-Battalion: The Everlasting #1-4. New Invaders writer Allan Jacobsen takes this to mean that the two characters are dead, although it's never revealed whether getting sucked into the void is fatal. 

*** 

TB 74/THUNDERBOLTS #74 (Cover date: January 2003) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Chris Batista 

Synopsis: Zemo's Thunderbolts manipulate Anomaly into destroying himself, and work with the Young Allies to stop the void on Counter-Earth. In their efforts, the merged entity of Atlas and Dallas Riordan is drained of inonic energy, returning them to their normal, separate selves. Zemo, Moonstone, Fixer, MACH-3, Atlas, and Riordan are shunted back to Earth, where they encounter Hawkeye's Thunderbolts at the other end of the void. 

Appearances: 

Amazon/Katrina Luisa Van Horn 
Anomaly/Koyami Sazaki | Counter-Earth 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Blackheath/Samuel Smithers 
Bucky/Rikki Barnes | Counter-Earth 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Harrier/Donald Joshua Clendenon 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
I.Q./Ishmael Questor | Counter-Earth 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
Kid Colt/Elric Freedom Whitemane | Counter-Earth 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Rip | Counter-Earth 
Skein/Sybil Dvorak 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 
Toro/Benito Serrano | Counter-Earth 
Zemo, Baron Helmut J. 


Notes: The events of Thunderbolts #73 are largely simultaneous with the events of Thunderbolts #74. Since each issue is dealing with a different cast of characters on a different planet, this isn't much of a problem for most of the content. The tricky part is when Zemo's T-bolts (Zemo, Moonstone, Atlas, Dallas Riordan, Fixer, MACH-3) travel back to Earth and meet Hawkeye's T-bolts (Hawkeye, Songbird, Harrier, Amazon, Blackheath, Skein) which is shown from the perspective of each team at the end of each issue. 

Here's the scene from Thunderbolts #73, page 23: 

Quote: 
Panels 1-2 (Amazon) 

AMAZON: Whoa--What happened to the void? 

Panel 3 (Songbird, Skein, Blackheath, Harrier) 

HARRIER: Did you see--when we were in there--there was something--someone--on the other side... 

SONGBIRD: But did they follow us here? 

Panel 4 (Hawkeye aims his arrow at Baron Zemo, who is off-panel except for his hand, which points a gun at Hawkeye's head.) 

HAWKEYE: Yup... 
 


And here's the scene from Thunderbolts #74, pages 22-23 

Quote: 
Page 22, panels 1-2 (Zemo's team emerges from a white void) 

ZEMO: --now! 

Page 22, panel 3 (Moonstone, Dallas, Atlas, Fixer, MACH-3) 

MOONSTONE: It worked. The things we survive... 

MACH-3: We're back on earth? 

HARRIER (off-panel): --there was something--someone--on the other side... 

SONGBIRD (off-panel, her line is misattributed to Harrier): ...But did they follow us here? 

MACH-3: That voice--? 

Page 22, panel 3 (Fixer, Moonstone watch Zemo aim his gun at an off-panel Hawkeye) 

HAWKEYE (off-panel): Yup. 

Page 23 (Hawkeye, Songbird, Harrier, Blackheath, Skein, and Amazon confront Zemo's team) 

HAWKEYE: They followed us back. Everyone take a deep breath--and get ready to kick some ass! 


For everyone on Hawkeye's team, I suggest the chronology should look like this: 

TB 73 
TB 73 p.23 ~ TB 74 p.22-BTS 
TB 74 p.23 

For everyone on Zemo's team EXCEPT Zemo, I'd go with this: 

TB 74 
TB 73 p.23-BTS ~ TB 74 p. 22 
TB 74 p.23-BTS 

And for Zemo himself, who actually appears in #73, I'd go with: 

TB 74 
TB 73 p.23 ~ TB 74 p.22 
TB 74 p. 23-BTS 

*** 

TB 75/THUNDERBOLTS #75 (Cover date: February 2003) 
Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencilled by Manuel Garcia 

Appearances: 

Amazon/Katrina Luisa Van Horn 
Atlas II/Erik Stephan Josten 
Blackheath/Samuel Smithers 
Bucky/Rikki Barnes | Counter-Earth 
Citizen V IV/John Watkins III 
Citizen V VI/Dallas Riordan 
Fixer II/Paul Norbert Ebersol 
Jolt/Helen "Hallie" Takahama 
Harrier/Donald Joshua Clendenon 
Hawkeye/Clinton Francis "Clint" Barton 
Human Torch/Jim Hammond 
Kid Colt/Elric Freedom Whitemane | Counter-Earth 
MACH-3/Abner Roland "Abe" Jenkins 
Moonstone II/Karla Sofen 
Rip | Counter-Earth 
Silver Sable 
Silver Scorpion/Elisabeth "Betty" Barstow 
Skein/Sybil Dvorak 
Songbird/Melissa Joan Gold 
Toro/Benito Serrano | Counter-Earth 
Zemo, Helmut J. 

Notes: MACH-3 gets a line of dialogue about his codename, in which he says "...it's MACH 5 now." I assume this is a Speed Racer joke and nothing more, since it's never mentioned again, and he appears to be using the name MACH-4 in the upcoming New Thunderbolts series. 

The Fixer raids one of Saddam Hussein's WMD stockpiles to get Pym particles for Atlas, but I don't know if this qualifies as a behind-the-scenes appearance for Saddam. 

Kevin Costner (or a reasonable facsimile) appears on page 25 for no apparent reason. I've always wondered if this was a dig at Ultimate Hawkeye's resemblance to Costner. 

This is, of course, the final issue of Thunderbolts to actually feature the Thunderbolts--issues #76-81 told the story of an ex-supervillain trying to eke out an existence working in an underground fighting circuit. Only one Thunderbolt, Amazon/Man-Killer makes it into this run, appearing in #80-81. Hawkeye next appears in Hawkeye vol. 4 #1, and the Thunderbolts team itself doesn't resurface until Avengers/Thunderbolts #1-6. I'll be posting an analyses of the infamous Arcudi/Velasco run later. (Yes, I actually bought and read them. Somebody had to. Thank goodness for fifty-cent bins...)

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 07:53 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

The Kevin Costner bit was an attempt to tie up the one dangling plotline fans had been sweating about since they heard the book was going to be rebooted -- the gel footprints in Zemo's base, discovered by Techno sometime in the #40s. 

Apparently, they belonged to a clone of Kevin Costner that Techno had grown, with the intent of transferring either Zemo's mind or his own into it. (Techno makes some offhand Costner reference back in #14 or thereabouts.) The clone escaped after Scourge killed Zemo in #39, and finally resurfaced, to shut the fans up, in #75. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 04:29 pm    
By Jim Smith

This amuses me far more than it should. 

The original line is in #15, where Techno is cloning Zemo for a backup body (for Techno himself--his backup plan for Zemo was entirely different, as explained in #61), on the basis that Zemo had a handsome face that he's no longer using. Zemo, objecting to the use of his genetic material, kills the clone in stasis (as I recall fans greatly appreciated that Zemo had a more swift and decisive solution to this problem than Peter Parker), and Techno muses "You know, Kevin Costner might be an even better choice..." 

Techno, disguised as the Ogre, discovers the footprints in #43, clearly knows what they mean, and decides that it's best no one else know about them. I'd always assumed that it was his organic Fixer body (which most of the Thunderbolts apparently didn't know was preserved after #8), having been released from stasis by CSA agents and frog-marched barefoot out of the base. But this conflicted with the flashback in #59 where Fixer is being removed, stasis chamber and all, to the CSA facilities in Washington. So yeah, the Costner Clone in #75 cleans everything up nicely, and certainly shuts me up.

			*	*	*

Thread 74

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 03:00 pm    Post subject: Target Presents Reading to the Rescue!
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Hey, folks. Over on this thread, I mentioned a Target-sponsored giveaway comic featuring Marvel characters -- and it looked like it could fit into continuity. So here's a quick write-up! 

Target Presents Reading to the Rescue! 

written by Forrest Stone 
art by Paul Azaceta and Scott Koblish 
cover by Ron Lim 

Characters appearing: 

Loki 
Spider-Man 
Mary Jane Watson(-Parker) 
Captain America 
Phoenix IV 
Thor 
J. Jonah Jameson, BTS 

Mr. Dennis (schoolteacher) 
Sharon 
Russ 
Austin (grade-school kids, no last names given) 

Synopsis: 

A school group is on a field trip to Rye Playland in Westchester, NY. However, their tour guide Mr. Koli turns out to be Loki in disguise -- and he's planning some mischief. (Hey, he's the God of it, right?) 

Loki casts a spell that confuses and befuddles everyone at the park -- they become, among other things, unable to properly read signs. (They also do things like walk off piers into lakes, and hit golf balls at other people instead of mini-golf targets). 

Peter Parker, visiting Playland with MJ, phones the situation into the Daily Bugle and changes to Spider-Man -- but quickly falls to a spell of Loki's. Meanwhile, the kids realize that Loki is behind it all, and are trapped by him on a swiftly spinning carousel. 

Other heroes become aware of the situation at Playland -- Captain America, on his way to Avengers Mansion, spies a hastily placed newsstand ad for the Daily Bugle's upcoming late edition, which (thanks to Peter's phone call) trumpets "Trouble at Rye Playland!" Jean Grey detects confused, panicked thoughts at Playland. And Thor, relaxing in Asgard, senses Loki causing trouble on Earth. 

Trapped on the carousel, the kids realize that their senses are only muddled if they look *directly* at signs -- when they view signs through the monitor of their digital camera, they can read them clearly! Just then, the heroes burst onto the scene -- Jean stops the spinning carousel telekinetically, but all three, just like Spider-Man, are ensorscelled by Loki. 

The kids, free of the carousel, sneak up behind Loki and look at his scroll of spells through their camera's monitor -- they see a spell labelled "End Spell", and, reasoning that it would end all of his spells, they read it aloud. Instantly, the heroes are free, and they easily defeat and subdue Loki. 

As Thor hauls Loki off to Asgard, Cap and Jean congratulate the kids on their bravery. They're going to have the most awesome field trip report ever... 

Comments: 

Everyone is wearing short sleeves and long pants, and it's a beautiful clear day in Westchester. Since the kids are on a field trip, it's probably a weekday -- and close to the end of the school year, too, if the school is sponsoring a trip that frivolous. 

Thor and Loki appear here in their classic garb, placing this after Thor #79 (which, itself, was a time-travel story to back around the time of Thor #65...). Jean Grey appears here in her Morrison-era outfit, and manifesting the Phoenix raptor -- placing it after New X-Men #121 (she first manifests the raptor in #120) and before #142 (the beginning of the storyline where she dies). Cap and Spidey are similarly in classic garb, which doesn't tell us much of anything. 

I gave Jameson a BTS here, because shortly after Peter called the Bugle to report the situation, the Bugle ran ads for the upcoming Late Edition of the paper trumpeting the story. When Cap asks if the late edition is out yet, a newsman replies "Nope. Just this poster. You know J. J. Jameson ... anything to sell a paper" -- implying that Jameson himself ordered the immediate running of the ad. 

As mentioned in the other thread, there's a narration error here -- MJ is referred to as Spider-Man's "girlfriend, Mary Jane Watson" instead of his "wife, MJ Watson-*Parker*". There's no way that this can be used as a chronological clue, and it doesn't seem to be an indicator of non-canonicity -- the rest of the book conforms to the Marvel Universe versions of the characters. I'd just call it a narration mistake and ignore it. 

Based on a comment by Loki in Amazing Spider-Man #503 about Earth being a place he has "seldom visited", I suggest placement of this issue *after* the conclusion of that story in ASM #504. In the initial thread I linked to above, we narrowed that down to a calendar placement in "June" of the current year, but I don't know how that translates into MCP-style before-and-afters for any of the characters except Jean (between X #141-142). 

If anyone has any ideas where this would best fit in everyone else's relative chronologies, post away! 


And keep your eyes on your local paper for Book Fairs sponsored by Target -- that's where they'll be giving this comic out. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 08:43 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Well, this is exactly a case in which the posted calendar might help with before and after appearances of various characters in recent comics. 

I've been hoping for some help in compiling character listings for all the entries in the calendar; once done, it would be a simple matter to search for successive appearances of a given character. Unfortunately, that next step is a bit daunting.  

Perhaps doing that would be a bit more streamlined than posting detailed issue analyses for all the comics on the calendar. But of course you'd have to start with the premise that the calendar has merit for accurate chronological placement, and I haven't had a lot of negative feedback on that front...yet. 

If the calendar is accurate, here are the before and after appearances for characters in Target Presents: Reading to the Rescue! 

Spider-Man -- ASMU2 2 and SECWAR 2-FB 
Mary Jane -- ASM 505-FB and ASM 505 
Cap -- ALIAS 28 and SECWAR 2-FB 
Thor -- ASM2 57 and XX 46 
Jean -- ALIAS 28 and NM2 7 
J.J.J. -- well, that might depend on where we drop PULSE 1-5; not counting PULSE, I think it's between BP3 52 and SPECSM3 12.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 07:41 am
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Thor -- ASM2 57 and XX 46 
<<<

Don't you mean, between *ASM 500* and XX 46? ASM2 57 was part one of a three-part story. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 09:18 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

I stand corrected on that specific point.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 11:49 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Great. As for the rest, I think I agree -- can't see anything arguable about your placements, anyway.  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 75

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 01:09 am    Post subject: Thunderbolts #76-81
By Jim Smith

Finishing off my analyses of Thunderbolts #58-81 by covering the six-issue Arcudi/Velasco run. This story of course has no relevance to the other 75 issues of the series beyond the title, and was an ill-considered attempt to boost sales. For the record I will say that Daniel Axum's story is enteraining when judged on its own merit, but by running the story in Thunderbolts Marvel forced me to judge it on the merits of whether it belongs in a book about Baron Zemo's team of outlaw superheroes, and it fails in that respect. 

General Notes: Almost all the characters in this storyline are not given full names, and many are only referred to by their first name. (The Spider-Man villain Delilah, who appears in #80-81, has an excuse because she didn't have a last name to begin with.) Especially annoying is Daniel Axum's mother, who is exclusively referred to as "Mama." I can't even call her "Mama Axum," because Daniel's birth name is Daniel Broughton, and I don't know if she changed hers as well. I've done my best to note as many characters as I can, but it seems slightly pointless since it's doubtful many of the ones created for this series will ever appear anywhere else. This is not a book designed to be indexed in a project like this. 

*** 

TB 76/THUNDERBOLTS #76 (Cover date: April 2003) 
Written by John Arcudi, art by Francisco Ruiz Velasco 

Synopsis: Daniel Axum (formerly a supervillain called The Battler) struggles to make a new life for himself in Hoboken after getting out of prison on parole. Elsewhere, promoter Rey Trueno is looking for an opponent to face the Armadillo, in his underground fighting circuit. 

Appearances: 

Armadillo/Antonio Rodriguez 
Axum's Mama 
Battler/Daniel Axum/Daniel Broughton 
Coach Cady 
Jason (Trueno's lawyer) 
Monster (Armadillo's second opponent in this issue) 
T-Bone (bartender at the Limbo Bar) 
Trueno, Rey 

*** 

TB 77/THUNDERBOLTS #77 (Cover date: May 2003) 
Written by John Arcudi, art by Francisco Ruiz Velasco 

Synopsis: Coach Cady picks a fight with Axum at the Limbo Bar. Rey Trueno offers to get Axum out of this likely parole violation if Axum will fight Armadillo. 

Appearances: 

Armadillo/Antonio Rodriguez 
Axum's Mama 
Battler/Daniel Axum/Daniel Broughton 
Benny (Axum and Gina's son) 
Coach Cady 
Eales (Axum's parole officer) 
Gina (Axum's ex-girlfriend) 
Lydia (ring girl) 
T-Bone 
Trueno, Rey 

*** 

TB 78/THUNDERBOLTS #78 (Cover date: June 2003) 
Written by John Arcudi, art by Francisco Ruiz Velasco 

Synopsis: Axum makes a comeback and defeats Armadillo. He enjoys his newfound local fame and success. 

Appearances: 

Armadillo/Antonio Rodriguez 
Axum's Mama 
Battler/Daniel Axum/Daniel Broughton 
Benny 
Coach Cady 
Gina 
Lydia 
T-Bone 
Trueno, Rey 

*** 

TB 79/THUNDERBOLTS #79 (Cover date: July 2003) 
Written by John Arcudi, art by Francisco Ruiz Velasco 

Synopsis: Having defeated Armadillo to become the New Jersey regional champion, Axum challenges and defeats the "Ultimate Brawling champion of the world," Slag. 

Appearances: 

Armadillo/Antonio Rodriguez 
Axum's Mama 
Battler/Daniel Axum/Daniel Broughton 
Benny 
Coach Cady 
Eales 
Lydia 
Slag 
Trueno, Rey 

*** 

TB 80/THUNDERBOLTS #80 (Cover date: August 2003) 
Written by John Arcudi, art by Francisco Ruiz Velasco 

Synopsis: Trueno sends Lydia to bail Man-Killer out of jail after she's captured by Spider-Man. Trueno offers to get Man-Killer's case dismissed if she'll fight for him. Upon meeting Axum, however, she introduces him to Delilah and Scorpion and proposes they form a team. 

Appearances: 

Amazon/Katrina Luisa Van Horn 
Armadillo/Antonio Rodriguez 
Axum's Mama 
Battler/Daniel Axum/Daniel Broughton 
Coach Cady 
Delilah 
Lydia 
Scorpion/MacDonald Gargan 
Spider-Man/Peter Parker 
T-Bone 
Trueno, Rey 

Note: I'm continuing to list Man-Killer by her Amazon codename (from Thunderbolts #67-75), since the character continually refuses to be called "Man-Killer" in this issue. 

*** 

TB 81/THUNDERBOLTS #81 (Cover date: September 2003) 
Written by John Arcudi, art by Francisco Ruiz Velasco 

Synopsis: Man-Killer proposes that Axum, Scorpion, Delilah, and herself team up to defeat Spider-Man. Man-Killer and Axum both have second thoughts, and Axum quits the fighting league while Man-Killer decides to stay in and make a (slightly) more legitimate career for herself. Scorpion and Delilah are seen webbed to a flagpole, so they probaby didn't fare so well on their own. 

Appearances: 

Amazon/Katrina Luisa Van Horn 
Armadillo 
Axum's Mama 
Battler/Daniel Axum/Daniel Broughton 
Benny 
Delilah 
Jason 
Lydia 
Scorpion/Mac Gargan 
Spider-Man/Peter Parker (bts) 
T-Bone 
Trueno, Rey 

Flashback, pages 7-9 

Appearances: Battler and Spider-Man fight "four years ago," which in Marvel time is about as helpful as saying the scene occurs on a Wednesday. While it's clearly Axum's first chronological appearance, it's impossible to determine where it occurs in Spider-Man's history, except that he's wearing his classic costume. 

Notes: The cover of this issue asks "Where are your favorites now? p. 12." I checked page 12, and there's nothing there about the whereabouts of Songbird, Moonstone, and the rest of my favorites. 

			*	*	*

Thread 76

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: Domino2 1-4
By Dhall

Domino v.2 1-4 

Characters: 

1: Domino, Jonathan Shepherd, Beatrice (Dominos mother) 

2: Domino, Jonathan Shepherd, Cable 

3: Domino, Siryn, Beatrice, Lazarus (Dominos brother) 

4: Domino, Beatrice, Lazarus, Father Rudolpho Boschelli 

Note: While this series was released by Marvel in 2003, it actually sat around on their shelves for a couple of years. Chronologically it comes before X 01. Domino is on her own, refers to leading a mutant strikeforce a couple of years back (in the 90s) and has not joined up with the X-Corporation yet. 

Plot: The plot is so bad, that I dont really want to get into it. Suffice to say that Domino tries to discover something about her mother. She finds that she and her family, including her five year old brother Lazarus are part of a govt mutant breeding program. 
The series (according to the captions) takes place over 49 days. 
Cable makes a one panel app. In issue 2, where he is too busy to help. 
Siryn appears in #3, the name Theresa, the red hair, and the accent are correct, so I am assuming that it is Siryn. She looks into some computer records for Domino. 
There is also a general who is behind the plot, but he is never given a name, so we cant put him in the MCP. 

Domino 
XFOR 115 
XFOR 117 
*DOMINO2 1 
*DOMINO2 2 
*DOMINO2 3 
*DOMINO2 4 
X '01 

Cable 
C2 97 
C2 98 
*DOMINO2 2 
DPOOL3 61 

Siryn 
W2 154 
W2 155 
*DOMINO2 3 
DPOOL3 56 
DPOOL3 61 

Lazarus (new listing, Dominos brother) 
*DOMINO2 1 
*DOMINO2 2 
*DOMINO2 3 
*DOMINO2 4 

Beatrice (new listing, Dominos mother) 
*DOMINO2 1 
*DOMINO2 2 
*DOMINO2 3 
*DOMINO2 4 

Shepherd, Jonathan (new listing) 
*DOMINO2 1 
*DOMINO2 2 

Boschelli , Father Rudolpho (new listing, priest who raised Domino) 
*DOMINO2 4

			*	*	*

Thread 77

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 02:38 pm    Post subject: Wolverine: Xisle and Wolverine: Snikt!
By Dhall

A two for one, both series published at the same time. These are both generic in terms of placement, so I'm relying on Paul's calendar placements. The two could be flipped, but doing so wouldn't change anything, since Wolverine is the only main character in both series. 

Dave H 


Wolverine: Xisle 

Characters: 

1: Wolverine, Amiko 

2-5: Wolverine 

Plot: After taking Amiko to an art show, then a carnival, Logan loses his temper. He wakes up on a deserted island where he struggles with his inner demons. Eventually a pilot comes to bring him back to the mainland. 

Wolverine: Snikt! 

Characters: 

1: Wolverine, Fusa, Yaa 
1-FB : Wolverine 

2: Wolverine, Fusa, Yaa, Takeo, The Colonel 

3: Wolverine, Fusa, Yaa, The Colonel 

3-FB: The Colonel, Primogenitor 

4: Wolverine, The Colonel, Fusa, Yaa, The Primogenitor-BTS 

5: Wolverine, Fusa, The Colonel, The Primogenitor, Yaa 

Plot: In NYC, Logan meets a girl who transports him to the future to fight the Mandate, some kind of sentient bacteria/robot things. The entire series occurs in the year 2058. 
At the end of it, Logan is returned to the time and place he came from. 

Flashbacks: 1: Pages 1-4, Wolverine stands alone against a horde of Mandates. The only place this scene seems to make any sense is between Pages 6 and 12 of Issue #5. 

3: The origin of the Mandate 


Wolverine 
PUN6 33 
PUN6 34 
PUN6 35 
PUN6 36 
PUN6 37 
*WXISLE 1 
*WXISLE 2 
*WXISLE 3 
*WXISLE 4 
*WXISLE 5 
*WSNIKT 1 
*WSNIKT 2 
*WSNIKT 3 
*WSNIKT 4 
*WSNIKT 5 
*WSNIKT 1-FB 
*WSNIKT 5 

Amiko 
W2 150 
W2 151 
W2 152 
W2 153 
W2 158 
*WXISLE 1 

New listings: 

Fusa 
*WSNIKT 1 
*WSNIKT 2 
*WSNIKT 3 
*WSNIKT 4 
*WSNIKT 5 

Yaa 
*WSNIKT 1 
*WSNIKT 2 
*WSNIKT 3 
*WSNIKT 4 
*WSNIKT 5 

Takeo 
*WSNIKT 2 

The Colonel 
*WSNIKT 3-FB 
*WSNIKT 2 
*WSNIKT 3 
*WSNIKT 4 
*WSNIKT 5 

The Primogenitor 
*WSNIKT 3-FB 
*WSNIKT 4-BTS 
*WSNIKT 5

			*	*	*

Thread 78

Posted: 07 Jul 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject: Chronology Review for Wolverine #12
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Okay, let's wrap this one up.  

Wolverine #12 
Written by Greg Rucka 
Drawn by Darrick Robertson 

Appearances: Wolverine, Cassie Lathrop 

Synopsis: THIS ISSUE IS PROBABLY SPREAD OVER 2 DAYS. IT STARTS AT NIGHT, AND ENDS THE NEXT MORNING. Pg. 1: Logan is in bed, just about to fall asleep. Cassie walks in and gets into bed next to him, wishes him sweet dreams, and turns out the light. 

Pg. 2 -23: Logan enters dreamland. He dreams about all the people he's killed. He dreams about going fishing with Nightcrawler, he dreams about having dinner with Yukio, he dreams of drinking at a bar with Rogue, (he's in his classic brown and yellow costume here, not the current one from Astonishing Xmen)...he dreams of his savage side stealing away Mariko from him...and then he dreams about Jean Grey. And I do believe this is supposed to be after Jean is dead, (as of New Xmen 150). Not that you can tell by the dialogue, but Logan basically has sex with her out in the wilderness...then she starts saying this wierd dialogue, and I for one wonder if dead Jean is trying to tell Logan something important, (forshadowing maybe)... 

Jean says, "The first known record of the Pheonix is in Herodotus' account of Egypt...decribing a red-gold bird the size of an eagle that returned every 500 years to bury it's parent, whose ashes were embalmed in a ball of sweet-smelling myrrh...are you even listening to me?" 

Logan replies, "The Chinese Phoenix is called feng-hwang" 

But Jean interrupts, saying, "I knew you weren't listening...you never listen." 

And some Weapon X men drag Logan off, throwing him in a dungeon, and treat him like an animal... 

But I think Logan was trying to resolve his feelings for Jean, (now that's she's deceased)...but that's just my interpretation. This isn't New Xmen, and this isn't the mysterious writing of Grant Morrison, so there's no way to tell if there's any real connection to the events of that title. 

Pg. 24: Cut to the next morning. Logan and Cassie are having coffee. Cassie asks if Logan had any dreams. He pauses, but says "No". Cassie looks as if she can tell something's wrong with Logan, but he doesn't feel like talking about it. 

Apparently Logan's feeling like an animal again, judging by the incoherentness of his dream, cause in the next issue, while Cassie sleeps in bed, Logan gets up and drives off, leaving her alone, (and thus ending her role in the Wolverine book for now). So little time has passed between issues 11, 12, and 13, (unless you somehow want to rationalize Logan stayed a lengthy period of time with her...but with all of the appearances Logan has to make in other titles, I don't think that's a wise route to go). 

References: Besides the fact that this MAY be after New Xmen #150... 

on the last page, as Logan drinks coffee, he's reading the newspaper. You can just barely make out the headline in small print: 

"Capt. America Captures Osama" 

And it has a very small pic of Cap. America below that. Now whether that can be taken for real or not, I don't know...but that's what it says. Yes, it's a throwaway headline, but....well, that's what it says! 
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 Jul 2004 09:39 am    
By Dhall

Jean isn't just dead, she was reborn in an alternate future in New X-Men 151-154. So we can speculate a lot about Wolverine 12. Is Jean trying to communicate with Logan from a) beyond the grave b) from the future c) not at all. 

I don't think that question is resolvable at the present time. That said, this issue has to be after New X-Men 150, and probably after 154. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 Jul 2004 10:25 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
I don't think that question is resolvable at the present time. That said, this issue has to be after New X-Men 150, and probably after 154. 
<<<


And that places the arc from W3 7 through W3 12 in July at the earliest. Hmm. Maybe that August ("six months" after W3 6) placement will work after all. I guess we stay tuned for W3 13.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 Jul 2004 11:53 pm 
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Is Jean trying to communicate with Logan ... I don't think that question is resolvable at the present time. That said, this issue has to be after New X-Men 150, and probably after 154. 
<<<

There's a logical step missing here. If we *can't* answer the question of whether Jean was trying to communicate with Logan or not ... how can we speak with any authority that the issue *must* be after X #150/154? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Jul 2004 07:03 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

The question is not necessarily whether or not Jean was communicating with Logan; the question is whether there's a reference to Jean being believed to be dead. From Kevin's description, it appears that in W3 12 Logan was trying to come to grips with Jean's presumed death. Is that correct?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Jul 2004 03:17 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

That seems to be how Kevin's interpreting it, yes, but it could be as simple as Logan once again struggling with his love for Jean. 

-Jeph! 
now posting from WORK! Huzzah for day-job

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Jul 2004 08:54 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

It looks like we could use a specific narrative or dialog reference here. How open to interpretation is the reason for Logan's thoughts of Jean in W3 12?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Jul 2004 09:43 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Yes, that is indeed how I was interpretting it. But, on the other hand, as wierd as this issue is, it could be very much open to each person's own unique interpretation... 

However, I'll bring up another part of the dream sequence, to back up my interpretation... 

As the dream starts up, (on pages 2, 3, and 4) a voice, (who we don't see) is telling Logan, "Kill me. Kill me again." Then we see a panel that shows a close up on a woman's red lips. The lips say, "Please" And we see Logan's claws punch into someone's shirt, (can't make out who's shirt it's supposed to be). We cut to Logan's face, and he's startled at his savageness. We then see him standing in a field in the woods surrounded by tons of dead bodies, (a representation I guess of all the people Logan's every killed). 

Now who with ruby red lips has Logan ever killed? (Thus explaining the "kill me again"). Well, there's Rose from the "Origin" miniseries, (but Logan doesn't remember that period of his life well), and then there's Jean, whom Logan tried to mercifully kill in New Xmen 148, as they were heading for the sun. 

Add to that there's a pesky red bird that flutters around throughout the dream, always observing Logan's activities...(it looks like a cardinal to me, but maybe it's a represenation of...a Pheonix?) 

This dream seems to be Logan's attempt to deal with his savage nature, and deal with all the relationships with various women he's had over the years, but it's the clues mentioned above which lead me to believe this is post New Xmen #150. 

Add to that that W3 issues 7 thru to the current story arc, (which ends with Rucka's final issue of #19) seem to happen in relatively short order, (because Logan ends issue 11 at Cassie's house, is there through issue 12, and starts off there in issue 13). Also, the cover of the upcoming W3 #19 shows Nightcrawler in his latest costume, (from recent Uncanny Xmen issues) and I'd say while not totally conclusive, this certainly points, (for me at least) to all of this being POST New Xmen #150. 

Oh, and I just noticed one more tiny reference: On page 1, outside of Cassie's house, we see a full moon hanging in the sky...
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 10 Jul 2004 12:17 pm    
By Dhall

From my reading of this issue, I would say that it's after Jean's death.

			*	*	*

Posted: 10 Jul 2004 09:02 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Right now, I'm leaning toward putting W3 7-12 in late August, "six months" after W3 6 (which I have at the end of February), and just after the start of a new semester (fall) at Xavier's, as shown in current X-titles. I'm disregarding the recap page's reference to "two months" between W3 6 and 7 and chalking the reference of "a couple of months" up to an underestimation. This would allow W3 7-19 to occur in fairly short succession and after the introduction of new costumes, in which Kurt is supposedly going to be depicted, and which Logan wouldn't necessarily wear in W3 7-12 outside of official X-Men business. 

Of course, things could (and likely will) change as we pick up more clues from upcoming issues of W3.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:29 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Just a follow up post to this thread, (which was a source of dilemma a couple months back): 

Wolverine vol. 3 #19 came out this week, (it's the last Greg Rucka written issue) and yes, as advertised, Nightcrawler appears on the cover in his new costume as seen in current issues of Uncanny Xmen. However, on the inside, Nightcrawler does appear, but NOT in costume. So is this a point in favor for those advocating all of W3 1-19 be moved to before the end of the Grant Morrison run of issues on the calender? 

Well, there's the still the interpretation of W3 #12, the dream issue, (which I advocated as meaning these issues happened after Jean died in New Xmen #150...) 

Next issue, Logan is in his new costume, and there's a new writer on board, (Mark Miller) so I'd say those issues are definently going to be POST-Grant Morrison...
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Thread 79

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: X-Force v1 #121-129
By SeanCurtin

X-Force #121 (Dec 2001) 
"Lacuna: Part One: Captain Coconut" 

Lacuna and Spike debut and are up for the open spot on X-Force's roster, though U-Go Girl and Anarchist, respectively, want them out; meanwhile, Phat and Vivisector start some artificial conflict within the team to get themselves some PR. 

Several pages feature video clips of the Spike, but since he's got no flashbacks or other appearances prior to this issue, I'm not listing them separately (basically, they're out-of-order appearances within one issue). Page 9 panels 1-3 feature a video clip of U-Go Girl's TV pilot in which she's showing a video clip. The clip-within-a-clip probably occurs somewhere in her career before XFOR 116 (and occur after the flashbacks in X-STATIX 10, which occur after the flashbacks in XFOR 124). The taping of the show itself occured shortly before this issue. Dead Girl and Venus Dee Milo are mentioned here for the first time. 

Characters appearing: 
Spike II 
U-Go Girl 
Orphan II 
Anarchist 
Spike Freeman 
Phat 
Vivisector 
Lacuna (real name given as Woodstock; no last name given) 
Lacuna's parents (unnamed) 
Doop 

X-Statix #122 
"Lacuna: Part Two: Larry King Has The Flu" 

Continues directly from last issue. U-Go Girl guest-hosts Larry King's talk show, with the Spike, Orphan and Anarchist as her guest. Phat and Vivisector get drunk and bust in, then Lacuna appears and uses her time-warping powers to strip everyone naked. Both Spike and Lacuna are announced as members, but Lacuna fails to show up as she's been given the TV show that had been promised to U-Go Girl. In the end, the team (now including Spike) watches unseen clips of Venus Dee Milo and Dead Girl. 

Characters appearing: 
Anarchist 
Lacuna 
Doop 
U-Go Girl 
Vivisector 
Phat 
Orphan 
Larry King (BTS) 
Lacuna's parents 
Spike 
Dead Girl (BTS) 
Venus Dee Milo (BTS) 

Flashback: Anarchist as a child and his adoptive parents: the origins of Anarchist's OCD. 

X-Force's as-of-yet unlisted appearances in BHOOD 8 & 9 must take place somewhere between XFOR 122 & 124 (probably closer to 124), as both Spike and U-Go Girl are present. 

Updated chronologies: 

**ALICAR, MR. 
XFOR 122-FB 

**ALICAR, MRS. 
XFOR 122-FB 

ANARCHIST/TIKE ALICAR 
**XFOR 122-FB 
XFOR 116 
... 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 

**DEAD GIRL 
XFOR 122-BTS 

DOOP 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 

FREEMAN, SPIKE 
XFOR 120 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 

**KING, LARRY 
XFOR 122-BTS 

**LACUNA/WOODSTOCK 
XFOR 121 
XFOR 122 

ORPHAN II/GUY SMITH 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 

PHAT/BILLY BOB REILLY 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 

**SPIKE II 
XFOR 121 
XFOR 122 

U-GO GIRL/EDITH CONSTANCE "EDIE" SAWYER 
**XFOR 121 (p9pn1-3) 
XFOR 116 
... 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 

**VENUS DEE MILO/DEE 
XFOR 122-BTS 

VIVISECTOR/MYLES ALFRED 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 06:19 pm    
By SeanCurtin

BHOOD 9 and XFOR 124 were both published in the same month (February 2002); the latter opens with the team teleporting home from an unseen mission or battle, which may be the same as the battle at the X-Force parade in BHOOD 9. If so, BHOOD 8 & 9 should be placed between XFOR 123 & 124. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 07:22 pm    
By Dhall

That is possible, but if so, then Lacuna must have decided to get her own way home. Not an unreasonable assumption to make, since we don't know exactly why Lacuna was with the team in Bhood 9 anyway. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 07:37 pm    
By Dhall

Sean, 
I didn't think you'd mind if I put in 123. I was going to work on X-Force this weekend, but when I saw you had done 121 and 122, I started on Bhood instead) 

X-Force 123 

Timeframe: This issue takes place in one second.around midnight. 

Plot: Doop pops a zit. Somehow the members of X-Force are pulled into the zithole (yes really) and end up in Doop Land (Yes thats what the script called it.) Doop has to go in after them, and save them from their own fears and nightmares. He does this, restoring everyone to the way they were, as the issue opened. 

Charcters: Doop, Orphan, U-Go-Girl, Anarchist, Spike II, Vivisector, Phat and a moving man. 

Doop, Orphan, U-Go-Girl, Anarchist (All last in X-Force 122, Next in Bhood 8) 
Spike II, Vivisector, Phat (All last in X-Force 122, Next in Bhood 9) 


Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 09:16 pm    
By SeanCurtin

X-Force #124 
"Edie and Guy Finally Do It" 

U-Go Girl returns home to her family, and she and the Orphan finally get together. 

Flashback: Edie's youth, age 12-17, and the birth of her daughter. 

Characters appearing: 
Anarchist 
Spike 
Doop 
Orphan 
Vivisector 
Phat 
U-Go Girl 
Katie Sawyer (U-Go Girl's daughter) 
U-Go Girl's parents 
Spike Freeman (BTS) 

Characters in flashback: 
U-Go Girl 
Katie Sawyer (BTS) 
U-Go Girl's parents 

ANARCHIST/TIKE ALICAR 
XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 8 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 

DOOP 
XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 8 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 

FREEMAN, SPIKE 
XFOR 122 
**XFOR 124-BTS 

ORPHAN II/GUY SMITH 
XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 8 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 

PHAT/BILLY BOB REILLY 
XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 

**SAWYER, MR. 
XFOR 124-FB 
{XFOR 119} 
XFOR 124 

**SAWYER, MRS. 
XFOR 124-FB 
{XFOR 119} 
XFOR 124 

**SAWYER, KATIE 
XFOR 124-FB-BTS 
{XFOR 119} 
XFOR 124 

SPIKE II 
XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 

U-GO GIRL/EDITH CONSTANCE "EDIE" SAWYER 
**XFOR 124-FB 
XFOR 121 (p9pn1-3) 
{XFOR 117} 
... 
XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 8 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 

VIVSECTOR/MYLES ALFRED 
XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 09:44 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Hey, guys. Your posts caused me to review my notes for these issues of XFOR and I noticed I had XFOR 123 occurring between pages 7 and 8 of XFOR 124! That error's been corrected. Thanks. 

Any strong reason to suspect that the teleportation home at the beginning of XFOR 124 is from BHOOD 9? I just assumed the mission just prior to XFOR 124 was unpublished.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 09:54 pm    
By SeanCurtin

X-Force #125 
"One of Us" 

After a botched mission in Central America, the team debates a name change. Anarchist, Orphan and U-Go Girl seek out Dead Girl and encounter a specter of death; each of the three assumes that the figure is saying that they themselves will die. CIA Agent Wright gives the team the mission to take down the Bush Rangers, a group of government-engineered super soldiers from death row who've taken over a space station. Dead Girl debuts, and her support lets the Orphan remain the team's leader. 

Characters appearing: Anarchist, Orphan, U-Go Girl, Phat, Vivisector, Spike, Doop, Spike Freeman, Death (?), Agent Wright, Dead Girl 

Characters in flashback #1 (between issues): Anarchist, Orphan, U-Go Girl, Phat, Vivisector, Spike, Doop 

Characters in flashback #2: the Bush Rangers. 

X-Force #126 
"As I Die Lying" 

The team enters the space station and is ambushed by the shapeshifting Bush Rangers. 

Flashback: Dead Girl remembers her life and death, or at least what she believes to have been her life. 

Characters appearing: Spike, Vivisector, Anarchist, Phat, U-Go Girl, Dead Girl, Orphan, Doop, the Bush Rangers. 

X-Force #127 
"Because Louise" 

The Spike tries to cut a deal with the Bush Rangers; one of them impersonates him and joins up with X-Force. The CIA arrives and ambushes X-Force, leaving Anarchist, U-Go Girl, Orphan and Doop in a shuttle bound for deep space. 

Characters appearing: X-Force Cafe owner Hank Zlotty, Orphan, Phat, Doop, U-Go Girl, Anarchist, Dead Girl, Vivisector, Agent Wright (dies), Spike, the Bush Rangers (all but one die; the remaining one, named as Tray, impersonates Spike) 

X-Force #128 
"Someone Dies" 

U-Go Girl, Anarchist and Orphan throw a die to see who stays behind and who gets to use the two-person escape pod (Doop's small enough to fit in with the other two). Anarchist loses on purpose, but when the others return to the space station Dead Girl uses Agent Wright's dead body to activate the controls to bring him back. The Spike reappears, revealing the imposter before dying of his wounds; the imposter impales U-Go Girl with a spike before being killed. Edie whispers the team's new name to the Orphan, and dies. 

Characters appearing: Spike imposter (the last Bush Ranger; dies), Vivisector, Phat, Dead Girl, Orphan, Doop, U-Go Girl (dies), Anarchist, Agent Wright (dead), Spike (dies) 

Characters in flashback (between issues): Orphan, U-Go Girl, Anarchist 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 09:59 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Any strong reason to suspect that the teleportation home at the beginning of XFOR 124 is from BHOOD 9? I just assumed the mission just prior to XFOR 124 was unpublished. 
<<<

Not really - it could be an unpublished mission or it could be the mission from BHOOD 9, though since BHOOD 9 was their last published appearance, it fits to place that right there. That said, given Lacuna's appearance in BHOOD 9, it's entirely possible that Milligan wasn't even aware of X-Force's appearance in The Brotherhood when he wrote #124. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 11:20 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Just to let everyone know -- I just edited the thread title to accurately reflect the books that have been analyzed in the thread. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 10:31 am    
By Dhall

Jeph, you got one issue ahead of the thread, but I'm sure Sean will take care of 129 soon enough.... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:36 pm    
By SeanCurtin

X-Force #129 
"X-Storm!" 

Orphan mopes over Edie's death while Spike Freeman continues to cash in on it. Anarchist and Dead Girl start up their weird relationship, Phat and Vivisector sleep together, but then Phat makes homophobic remarks to a reporter. Solomon O'Sullivan, Washout and some minor X-Force wannabe debut. The team officially changes their name to X-Statix. 

Characters appearing: Spike Freeman, Anarchist, Dead Girl, Orphan, Doop, Vivisector, Phat, U-Go Girl's mother and daughter, Solomon O'Sullivan, Sycamore, Anti-Matter, Washout, Venus Dee Milo (BTS), Lacuna. 

Updated chronologies for X-Force volume 1 #121-129: 

**ALICAR, MR. 
XFOR 122-FB 

**ALICAR, MRS. 
XFOR 122-FB 

ANARCHIST/TIKE ALICAR 
**XFOR 122-FB 
{XFOR 116} 
... 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 8 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 
**XFOR 125-FB 
**XFOR 125 
**XFOR 126 
**XFOR 127 
**XFOR 128-FB 
**XFOR 128 
**XFOR 129 

**ANTI-MATTER/ARLO SUMMERS 
XFOR 129 

**DEAD GIRL 
XFOR 126-FB 
XFOR 122-BTS 
{XFOR 125} 
XFOR 126 
XFOR 127 
XFOR 128 
XFOR 129 

DEATH 
DPOOL3 61 
**XFOR 125 (?) 

DOOP 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 8 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 
**XFOR 125-FB 
**XFOR 125 
**XFOR 126 
**XFOR 127 
**XFOR 128 
**XFOR 129 

FREEMAN, SPIKE 
XFOR 120 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 
**XFOR 124-BTS 
**XFOR 125 
**XFOR 129 

**KING, LARRY 
XFOR 122-BTS 

**LACUNA/WOODSTOCK 
XFOR 121 
XFOR 122 
BHOOD 9 
XFOR 129 

**O'SULLIVAN, SOLOMON 
XFOR 129 

ORPHAN II/GUY SMITH 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 8 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 
**XFOR 125-FB 
**XFOR 125 
**XFOR 126 
**XFOR 127 
**XFOR 128-FB 
**XFOR 128 
**XFOR 129 

PHAT/BILLY BOB REILLY 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 
**XFOR 125-FB 
**XFOR 125 
**XFOR 126 
**XFOR 127 
**XFOR 128 
**XFOR 129 

**SAWYER, MR. 
XFOR 124-FB 
{XFOR 119} 
XFOR 124 

**SAWYER, MRS. 
XFOR 124-FB 
{XFOR 119} 
XFOR 124 
XFOR 129 

**SAWYER, KATIE 
XFOR 124-FB-BTS 
{XFOR 119} 
XFOR 124 
XFOR 129 

**SPIKE II 
XFOR 121 
XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 
**XFOR 125-FB 
**XFOR 125 
**XFOR 126 
**XFOR 127 
**XFOR 128 

**SPIKE II IMPOSTER/TRAY 
XFOR 125-FB 
XFOR 125-BTS 
XFOR 126 
XFOR 127 
XFOR 128 

**SYCAMORE 
XFOR 129 

U-GO GIRL/EDITH CONSTANCE "EDIE" SAWYER 
**XFOR 124-FB 
XFOR 121 (p9pn1-3) 
{XFOR 116} 
... 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 8 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 
**XFOR 125-FB 
**XFOR 125 
**XFOR 126 
**XFOR 127 
**XFOR 128-FB 
**XFOR 128 

**VENUS DEE MILO/DEE 
XFOR 122-BTS 
XFOR 129-BTS 

VIVISECTOR/MYLES ALFRED 
TB 57 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 
**XFOR 123 
**BHOOD 9 
**XFOR 124 
**XFOR 125-FB 
**XFOR 125 
**XFOR 126 
**XFOR 127 
**XFOR 128 
**XFOR 129 

**WASHOUT 
XFOR 129 

**WRIGHT, AGENT 
XFOR 125 
XFOR 127 
XFOR 128 

**ZLOTTY, HANK 
XFOR 126 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 80

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 10:38 am    Post subject: Cyclops 4
By Dhall

Cyclops 4 

Charcters: Cyclops, Wolverine, Professor Xavier, Ulysses 

Plot: Cyclops tracks down Ulysses, and eventually manages to knock him out. 

Cyclops 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
CYCLOPS 1 
CYCLOPS 2 
CYCLOPS 3 
*CYCLOPS 4 
X '01 
X 117 

Wolverine 
CYCLOPS 1 
*CYCLOPS 4 
XFOR 116 
X '01 
XFOR 120 
X 117 

Professor Xavier 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
CYCLOPS 1 
*CYCLOPS 4 
X 117 

ULYSSES IV 
CYCLOPS 1-BTS 
CYCLOPS 2 
*CYCLOPS 4

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 03:49 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Hmm. Apparently both you and the MCP placed the Cyclops series between X #116-117, without catching the following Big Plot Thing: 

Prof. X shows up in issues #1 and 4 -- but between X #116-126, Prof. X has been replaced by Cassandra Nova! If the Cyclops series is placed here, it means that it was Cassie, not Charlie, appearing in #1 and 4 -- and that doesn't really click with how Prof. X is portrayed in those issues. 

It seems like that's really Prof. X in the Cyclops series, so I recommend moving the series back to just before X #114. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:08 pm 
By Dhall

hmmn, I've been trying to go with what's already in the MCP, (which I am wrongly assuming has already been checked for things like this) but your right, anything with Charlie in it that could be placed before 114 should be. 
Since this is supposed to be the real Charlie, based on the way the character is acting...... 

This would entail moving the series for the above characters, and Phoenix IV who appears in Cyclops 1, to between X 113 and 114. 

Does this work out ok? 

Dave H 
oh, and Beast's app in Cyclops 1 isn't in the MCP. 

Beast 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
*Cyclops 1 
*ICE2 1 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
X '01 



Phoenix IV 

UX 393 
X 113 
TB 57 
*CYCLOPS 1 (moved) 
UX 394 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
(CYCLOPS 1) remove 
X '01 
X 117 


Cyclops 

UX 393 
X 113 
TB 57 
CYCLOPS 1 (moved) 
CYCLOPS 2 (moved) 
CYCLOPS 3 (moved) 
*CYCLOPS 4 
UX 394 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
(CYCLOPS 1 ) removed 
(CYCLOPS 2 ) removed 
(CYCLOPS 3 ) removed 
X '01 
X 117 

Wolverine 

X 113 
TB 57 
CYCLOPS 1 (moved) 
*CYCLOPS 4 
UX 394 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
UX 395 
UX 396 
UX 397 
UX 398 
CYCLOPS 1 (remove) 
XFOR 116 
X '01 
XFOR 120 
X 117 

Professor Xavier 
X 113 
CYCLOPS 1 (moved) 
*CYCLOPS 4 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
CYCLOPS 1 (removed) 
X 117 

ULYSSES IV 
CYCLOPS 1-BTS 
CYCLOPS 2 
*CYCLOPS 4

Last edited by Dhall on 19 Sep 2004 04:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:20 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I'd prefer to move the Cyclops series back a bit more. See my post on your Iceman v2 thread for more info, but I think things should go like this: 

CYCLOPS #1-4 - Leather outfits. Wheelchair-bound Prof. X (not Cassie) and cat-Beast show up in #1. 

ICEMAN v2 #1-4 - published after Cyclops #1-4. Cat-Beast shows up in #1 -- clues in the story indicate that this occurs before the U-Men are active (X@2001) and possibly before Cerebra is finished (X #114). This series could overlap Cyclops #2-4 and UX #394. 

UX #394 - Cyclops is back, but Iceman doesn't appear -- is he still in Hong Kong? "McCoy's improvements to Cerebro" are mentioned. 

X #114 - Cat-Beast finishes Cerebra. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:49 pm    
By Dhall

Jeph, I've edited my above post to move Cyclops 1-4 to before UX 394 as per your suggestion. If you want me to move it any further back, let me know why..... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 81

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 11:36 am    Post subject: Iceman 2 1-4
By Dhall

Iceman v.2 

(Note: 1 is already in the MCP) 

1 Characters: Iceman, Beast, Opal Tanaka, Robert Tanaka, Alan Weiss 

2: Iceman, Robert Tanaka, Opal Tanaka, Alan Weiss, Foe-Dog (Chin Hsi) 

3: Iceman, Alan Weiss, Foe-Dog, Robert Tanaka, Opal Tanaka, John Sublime  BTS 

4: Iceman, Alan Weiss, Robert Tanaka, Opal Tanaka, Foe-Dog 

Plot: Weiss lures Iceman to Hong Kong, by telling him about Opals son, Robert, which he tells Bobby is his son. (This later turns out to not be true.) Weiss sends his Augmen after Bobby. Bobby meets Foe-Dog, a mystic protector type, who can teleport by moving through shadow doors. They manage to infiltrate Weiss operations. Weiss wants Bobby to help him by providing super cooling services for his superconductors, so that he can graft mutant parts onto humans. Weiss is working either for or with John Sublime, whom he has a telephone call with, in issue 3. Bobby is able to take out the Augmen, Weiss hooks himself up to his own invention, but it is unstable and he quickly dies. Opal takes her son, and flies off, leaving Bobby with a videotape explaining that Robert is not his son. 

Tanaka, Opal 
UX 290 
UX 301 
UX 305 
ICE2 1 
*ICE2 2 
*ICE2 3 
*ICE2 4 

TANAKA, ROBERT 
ICE2 1 
*ICE2 2 
*ICE2 3 
*ICE2 4 

WEISS, ALAIN 
ICE2 1 
*ICE2 2 
*ICE2 3 
*ICE2 4 

Foe-Dog (Chin Hsi)(new listing) 
*ICE2 2 
*ICE2 3 
*ICE2 4 

Beast (no modification to listing needed) 
XX:SL 1 
ICE2 1 
X 117 

Sublime, John (new listing) 
*ICE2 3-BTS 

Iceman 
UX 398 
ICE2 1 
*ICE2 2 
*ICE2 3 
*ICE2 4 
UX 399

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 03:59 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

As with the Cyclops series, I'd recommend moving this series back a bit. To quote from my own chronology for this period, posted to the old board just over two years ago: 

"Iceman v2 #1-4  Iceman goes to Japan. The program he encounters, the Augmen, are forerunners of John Sublime's U-Men  there are references to the fact that the U-Man grafting program has not been made to work on adults yet  a clue that this story takes place well before X@2001... There's also a brief cameo of cat-Beast, but he's having trouble contacting Bobby over traditional equipment  suggesting Cerebra isn't complete yet (so I'm placing the story pre-X #114). Perhaps this explains why Iceman isn't around for UX #394." 

I placed this series after the "Cyclops" mini (or perhaps during, since the only overlap is the Beast in #1 of both), but before X #114. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:39 pm    
By Dhall

Okay, so you want it before UX 395? 

This would only alter Beast and Iceman's listings: 

That gives us: 

Iceman 
X 108 
X 109 
ICE2 1 (moved) 
*ICE2 2 
*ICE2 3 
*ICE2 4 
UX 395 
UX 396 
UX 397 
UX 398 
ICE2 1 (removed) 
UX 399 

Beast 
XX 3-FB 
XX 2-FB 
XX 1-FB 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
*CYCLOPS 1 
ICE2 1 (moved) 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
X '01 
XX:SL 1 
ICE2 1 (remove) 
X 117

Last edited by Dhall on 19 Sep 2004 04:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:46 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

The Beast isn't in Iceman v2 #2-4 -- other than that, yeah, that looks good. 

In case these two threads get separated over time -- here's what I just posted in the Cyclops thread about how I think the minis fit with each other and the surrounding main books: 

CYCLOPS #1-4 - Leather outfits. Wheelchair-bound Prof. X (not Cassie) and cat-Beast show up in #1. 

ICEMAN v2 #1-4 - published after Cyclops #1-4. Cat-Beast shows up in #1 -- clues in the story indicate that this occurs before the U-Men are active (X@2001) and possibly before Cerebra is finished (X #114). This series could overlap Cyclops #2-4 and UX #394. 

UX #394 - Cyclops is back, but Iceman doesn't appear -- is he still in Hong Kong? "McCoy's improvements to Cerebro" are mentioned. 

X #114 - Cat-Beast finishes Cerebra. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:52 pm    
By Dhall

damn cut and paste! fixed this, and no I won't argue that Hank should have a BTS in 4, as Opal sends him an email, that would be silly.  

Thanks for your suggestions, it makes good sense to try and remove these from the Cassandra Nova storyline..... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 82

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 05:50 pm    Post subject: X-Statix 13-18
By Dhall

I know this is jumping ahead a bit, but basically I felt like working on X-Force/X-Statix this weekend, and when I saw that Sean was doing the same thing, I didnt want to jump into his run (well anymore than I did, with 123, that is.) So Ive jumped ahead a bit to the Back from the Dead storyline. Now this isnt my favorite storyline, but I think it might have been really good if Marvel had allowed it to proceed as originally planned, instead of wimping out due to the controversial nature of bringing back Princess Di from the dead. As it is, its an ok X-Statix storyline, with some good ideas, BUT its mostly a muddle. 

Characters: 
X-Statix 13: Henrietta Hunter (also in fb), Professor Xavier (walking), Orphan, Anarchist, Dead Girl, El Guapo, Phat, Vivisector, Doop, Venus-Dee-Milo, Spike Freeman, Lacuna, Dicky, Reggie, In Fb: Miz Tree, The Wall, Surrender Monkey, Oxford Blue, Blind Ali (The Wall also appears in the main part of the issue), Spider-Man appears in his blue and reds, providing no clue for placement. 

X-Statix 14: Spider-Man (see above note), Jesus Diaz, Orphan, Anarchist, Dead Girl, El Guapo, Phat, Vivisector, Doop, Venus-Dee-Milo, Spike Freeman, Henrietta Hunter, Miz Tree, The Wall, Surrender Monkey, Oxford Blue, Blind Ali (dies this issue) 

X-Statix 15: Mister Code (also in fb, years earlier), Spike Freeman (also in fb, years earlier), Ed Wolfman (Sec. of homeland defense), President Bush (unseen, but heard in white house), Lacuna, Henrietta Hunter, Orphan, Anarchist, Dead Girl, El Guapo (loses his legs in this issue), Phat, Vivisector, Doop, Venus-Dee-Milo 

X-Statix 16: Jesus Diaz, Orphan, Anarchist, Dead Girl, El Guapo, Phat, Vivisector, Doop, Venus-Dee-Milo, Lacuna, Henrietta Hunter, Reggie, Dicky, Mister Code, Spike Freeman (dies this issue.) 

X-Statix 17: Lacuna, Lacunas parents, Orphan, Anarchist, Dead Girl, Phat, Vivisector, Doop, Venus-Dee-Milo, Henrietta Hunter (dies this issue), John Williams (Lacunas lawyer), Spike Freeman (in Hell, and as a corpse), Mister Code (dies, is somebody famous enough that Orphan knows who he is, but its unrevealed to us.) 

X-Statix 18: Mister Code (deceased body, explodes), Orphan, Anarchist, Dead Girl, El Guapo, Phat (dies this issue), Vivisector, Doop, Venus-Dee-Milo, Henrietta Hunter (as an undead spirit of vengeance), Reggie, Mr. President (of Europa) 

Flashbacks: 

Issue 13: Page 1 panels 1-2: Henriettas childhood, she skips rope 
Panel 3: Her death, someone has rigged an explosive in her microphone 
Panel 4: her spirit follows a dark tunnel 

These are her only apps prior to the main part of issue 13. 

Audition tapes: We first meet the Eurotrash by watching their audition tapes in issue 13. 

Issue 15: Texas, some years ago Mister Code gives a lecture, Spike Freeman is in attendance. 

Plot: A European pop sensation comes back from the dead. Powerful interests in Europa want her to stay dead. Spike Freeman plays both sides against each other. X-Statix fights Eurotrash. Henrietta joins and takes over X-Statix, and becomes Secretary for Homeland Defense. Lacuna comes into possession of documents linking Spike Freeman to Saddam Hussein (and implicating X-Statix) The team tracks down and kills Mister Code (who has Lacuna shot, but not fatally) to try to cover up these documents. Some team members die. Orphan kills Spike Freeman, who ends up in Hell. In issue 18, Henrietta comes back as a spirit to get revenge on the president of Europa, who had her killed the first time. 



Listings: 
(Sean if you want to put these together with your X-force listings, when you get up to these issues, feel free) 

Henrietta Hunter 
*XSTATIX 13-FB 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 
*XSTATIX 18 

Orphan 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 
*XSTATIX 18 

Anarchist 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 
*XSTATIX 18 

Dead Girl 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 
*XSTATIX 18 

El Guapo 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 18 (dies) 

Phat 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 
*XSTATIX 18 (dies) 

Vivisector 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 
*XSTATIX 18 

Doop 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 
*XSTATIX 18 

Venus Dee Milo 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 
*XSTATIX 18 

Spike Freeman 
*XSTATIX 15-FB (some years ago) 
XFOR 120 
**XFOR 121 
**XFOR 122 
**XFOR 124-BTS 
**XFOR 125 
**XFOR 129 
 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 (dies) 
*XSTATIX 17 (deceased, in Hell) 


Lacuna 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 

lacunas unnamed parents (well since she doesnt have a last name, I cant MCP them, but they are in issue 17 

Professor Xavier 
XX 21 
XX 22 
XX 23 
UX 425 
UX 426 
*XSTATIX 13 

(Note this must be after the Cassandra Nova storyline, so it will be sometime after X 126, and definitely later than any apps. already currently listed in the MCP.) 



Spider-Man (in blue & red, no real clues for placement) 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 

Dicky (might not make it in to the MCP, due to the no last name rule) 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 16 


Reggie (might not make it in to the MCP, due to the no last name rule) 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 18 

Mr. President of Europa 
*XSTATIX 18 

The Wall (Gunter Gross) 
*XSTATIX 13-FB 
*XSTATIX 13 
*XSTATIX 14 


Miz Tree 
*XSTATIX 13-FB 
*XSTATIX 14 

Surrender Monkey 
*XSTATIX 13-FB 
*XSTATIX 14 

Oxford Blue 
*XSTATIX 13-FB 
*XSTATIX 14 

Blind Ali 
*XSTATIX 13-FB 
*XSTATIX 14 (dies) 

Diaz, Jesus 
*XSTATIX 14 
*XSTATIX 16 

Mister Code 
*XSTATIX 15-FB 
*XSTATIX 15 
*XSTATIX 16 
*XSTATIX 17 

Wolfman, Ed (Secretary of Homeland Defense) 
*XSTATIX 15 

Bush, George W. (President of US) 
*XSTATIX 15 

Williams, John 
*XSTATIX 17 

edited: to update Xavier's listing.

Last edited by Dhall on 28 Oct 2004 08:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 06:48 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Any ideas on where this storyline fits in with "Dell Rusk" and Tony Stark's tenures as Secretary of Defense? 

Presumably between them, right? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 07:53 pm    
By Dhall

Unfortunatly I do not follow Iron Man. 

Ed Wolfman is the Sec. of Homeland Defense in X-Statix 15, and Henrietta takes it over in 16. Appartantly you can get the job, just because you have a press conference, but that's besides the point. 

As she dies in issue 17, it's not a long tenure.... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 12:44 am    
By John Simons

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Any ideas on where this storyline fits in with "Dell Rusk" and Tony Stark's tenures as Secretary of Defense? 
<<<


Actually, I believe they are two seperate cabinet posts. Secretary of defense is not the same thing as head of the department of homeland security. In the real world, the former is Rumsfeld and the latter is Tom Ridge.

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 07:08 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

FWIW, I have this X-Statix storyline occurring while Dell Rusk was still Secretary of Defense.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 83

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 05:41 pm    Post subject: X-Statix #1-5
By SeanCurtin

X-Statix #1-5: 

X-Statix #1 
"Good Omens Part One: Edie Sawyer Saved My Life" 

Solomon O'Sullivan's reality TV superhero team O-Force debuts, stealing the thunder from Venus Dee Milo joining X-Statix. Meanwhile, reality-warping mutant Arnie obsesses over Edie Sawyer. Arnie's last name is alternately Lundberg or Lunt; it's Lunt in #3-4 and Lundberg in #5. His mother doesn't bat an eye when the latter is used at his funeral, so presumably everyone was just getting his name wrong in the previous few issues. 

Characters appearing: Arnie and his mother, Orphan, Anarchist, Dead Girl, Doop, Phat, Vivisector, Solomon O'Sullivan, O-Force (Overkill, Orchid, Optoman, Ozone, Obituary, Oink, Oracle, Orbit, Ocelot, Ooze, Orifice, and Ocean), Spike Freeman, Venus Dee Milo, Corkscrew 

A TV clip set between panels of the final fight scene in XFOR 116 features new scenes of U-Go Girl, Anarchist, Zeitgeist, La Nuit and Battering Ram. 

Flashback: Arnie in a coma listening to U-Go Girl's voice. 

X-Statix #1/2 
"Code X" 

Doop takes rogue mutant Corkscrew into some deserted woods and, when Corkscrew flips out, kills him. 

X-Statix #2 
"Good Omens Part 2: How The Super-Hero Business Works" 

Solomon O'Sullivan dispatches O-Force to take out Arnie and lawyer Sharon Ginsberg to take Venus out of X-Statix. Phat and Venus's powers act up while on a mission. 

Characters appearing: O-Force (Ocelot, Ocean, Obituary, Ooze, Orbit, Overkill), Solomon O'Sullivan, Arnie and his mom, Vivisector, Dead Girl, Phat, Anarchist, Venus Dee Milo, Orphan, Doop, Spike Freeman, Sharon Ginsberg. 

X-Statix #3 
"Good Omens Part 3: That's Entertainment!" 

O-Force encounters Arnie's animated zombie army and is defeated off-panel. X-Statix falls apart, leaving only the Orphan to confront Arnie. 

Characters appearing: Sharon Ginsberg, Venus Dee Milo, Spike Freeman, Orphan, Dead Girl, Vivisector, Doop, Anarchist, Phat and his family, Solomon O'Sullivan, O-Force (Ocean, Obituary, Ocelot, Ooze, Overkill, Orbit), Arnie. 

Arnie and his mother appear in a photograph after he wakes up from his coma. 

X-Statix #4 
"Good Omens Part 4 - Talking About Edie With Arnie" 

X-Statix rejoins the Orphan, and Orphan convinces Arnie to surrender. Orphan tries to get Arnie to go see Professor Xavier, but Arnie instead threatens his way into X-Statix's roster. 

Characters appearing: Ocean, Orphan, Doop, Anarchist, Dead Girl, Phat, Vivisector, Spike Freeman, Venus Dee Milo, Solomon O'Sullivan, Sharon Ginsberg, Arnie and his mom, Nathan Malloy, Bud Corby, Ooze, Ocelot, Professor X (BTS) 

X-Statix #5 
"Good Omens Part 5: The Mysterious Fan Boy!" 

Arnie, masked, joins the team, but Lacuna unmasks and exposes him. Orphan convinces her to help them kill him during a dangerous mission before he kills anyone else, then quits the team. 

Characters appearing: Spike Freeman, Orphan, Doop, Arnie (now called Fanboy; dies), Lacuna, Phat, Anarchist, Dead Girl, Vivisector, Venus Dee Milo, Julia Roberts (BTS), Razorhead (dies), Arnie's mom. 

Updated chronologies (continued from X-Force #121-129 thread): 

ANARCHIST/TIKE ALICAR 
XFOR 116 
**XSTATIX 1 (p1) 
XFOR 116 
... 
XFOR 129 
**XSTATIX 1 
**XSTATIX 2 
**XSTATIX 3 
**XSTATIX 4 
**XSTATIX 5 

BATTERING RAM 
XFOR 116 
**XSTATIX 1 (p2pn1) 
XFOR 116 

**CORBY, BUD 
XSTATIX 4 

**CORKSCREW 
XSTATIX 1 
XSTATIX 1/2 

DEAD GIRL 
XFOR 129 
**XSTATIX 1 
**XSTATIX 2 
**XSTATIX 3 
**XSTATIX 4 
**XSTATIX 5 

DOOP 
XFOR 129 
**XSTATIX 1 
**XSTATIX 1/2 
**XSTATIX 2 
**XSTATIX 3 
**XSTATIX 4 
**XSTATIX 5 

**FANBOY/ARNIE LUNDBERG 
XSTATIX 1-FB 
XSTATIX 3-FB 
XSTATIX 1 
XSTATIX 2 
XSTATIX 3 
XSTATIX 4 
XSTATIX 5 

FREEMAN, SPIKE 
XFOR 129 
**XSTATIX 1 
**XSTATIX 2 
**XSTATIX 3 
**XSTATIX 4 
**XSTATIX 5 

**GINSBERG, SHARON 
XSTATIX 2 
XSTATIX 3 
XSTATIX 4 

LA NUIT 
XFOR 116 
**XSTATIX 1 (p2pn1) 
XFOR 116 

LACUNA/WOODSTOCK 
XFOR 129 
**XSTATIX 5 

**LUNDBERG, MRS. 
XSTATIX 3-FB 
{XSTATIX 1} 
XSTATIX 2 
XSTATIX 3 
XSTATIX 4 
XSTATIX 5 

**LUNDBERG, ARNIE 
See FANBOY 

**LUNT, ARNIE 
See FANBOY 

**MALLOY, NATHAN 
XSTATIX 4 

O'SULLIVAN, SOLOMON 
XFOR 129 
**XSTATIX 1 
**XSTATIX 2 
**XSTATIX 3 
**XSTATIX 4 

**OBITUARY 
XSTATIX 1 
XSTATIX 2 
XSTATIX 3 

**OCEAN 
XSTATIX 1 
XSTATIX 2 
XSTATIX 3 
XSTATIX 4 

**OCELOT 
XSTATIX 1 
XSTATIX 2 
XSTATIX 3 
XSTATIX 4 

**OINK 
XSTATIX 1 

**OOZE 
XSTATIX 1 
XSTATIX 2 
XSTATIX 3 
XSTATIX 4 

**OPTOMAN 
XSTATIX 1 

**ORBIT 
XSTATIX 1 
XSTATIX 2 
XSTATIX 3 

**ORCHID 
XSTATIX 1 

**ORIFICE 
XSTATIX 1 

ORPHAN/GUY SMITH 
XFOR 129 
**XSTATIX 1 
**XSTATIX 2 
**XSTATIX 3 
**XSTATIX 4 
**XSTATIX 5 

**OVERKILL 
XSTATIX 1 
XSTATIX 2 
XSTATIX 3 

**OZONE 
XSTATIX 1 

PHAT/BILLY BOB REILLY 
XFOR 129 
**XSTATIX 1 
**XSTATIX 2 
**XSTATIX 3 
**XSTATIX 4 
**XSTATIX 5 

PROFESSOR X/CHARLES FRANCIS XAVIER 
**XSTATIX 4-BTS (chronology uncertain) 

**RAZORHEAD 
XSTATIX 5 

**REILLY, MR. 
XFOR 118 
XSTATIX 3 

**REILLY, MRS. 
XFOR 118 
XSTATIX 3 

**ROBERTS, JULIA 
XSTATIX 5-BTS 

U-GO GIRL/EDITH CONSTANCE "EDIE" SAWYER 
XFOR 124-FB 
**XSTATIX 1-FB-BTS 
XFOR 121 (p9pn1-3) 
{XFOR 116} 
**XSTATIX 1 (p1) 
XFOR 116 

VENUS DEE MILO/DEE 
XFOR 129-BTS 
**{XSTATIX 1} 
**XSTATIX 2 
**XSTATIX 3 
**XSTATIX 4 
**XSTATIX 5 

VIVISECTOR/MYLES ALFRED 
XFOR 129 
**XSTATIX 1 
**XSTATIX 2 
**XSTATIX 3 
**XSTATIX 4 
**XSTATIX 5 

ZEITGEIST II/AXEL CLUNEY 
XFOR 116 
**XSTATIX 1 (p1) 
XFOR 116 

-Sean

Last edited by SeanCurtin on 20 Sep 2004 05:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 06:43 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Can you give a little more detail about the nature of Prof. X's BTS appearance in X-Statix #4? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 05:40 pm    
By SeanCurtin

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Can you give a little more detail about the nature of Prof. X's BTS appearance in X-Statix #4? 
<<<

Orphan, to Arnie: "Professor Xavier is expecting you. He'll be able to help you. He has helped many of us in the past." This is in "the early hours" of the morning, after the evening of the O-Force/X-Statix fight with Arnie's zombie army. 

Also, Ocelot and Ooze appear in #4; have edited accordingly. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 84

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 10:45 pm    Post subject: XX: SL 1-4
By Dhall

I've noticed that the MCP has XX:SL 1 as occuring after XX 6, which would be right in the middle of a storyline. Every other source I've seen on the internet, has this limited series occuring betwen XX 4 and 5, which is where I have it in my list. 

oh, and Brainchild is in this issue, and needs to be added to the MCP: 

Brainchild 
UX 275 
W2 69 
XU 6 
*XX:SL 1 

Assuming there are no major objections to this placement: 

Bishop 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove) 

Rogue 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove) 

Storm 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove) 

Tessa 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove) 

Thunderbird III 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove)

Last edited by Dhall on 19 Sep 2004 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 11:04 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Dunno if this belongs in Issue Analysis, as you're simply suggesting moving a book that we already have up. 

Would you be willing to provide write-ups here for #2-4? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Yeah, that's why I put it here. 

X-Treme X-Men: Savage Land 2-4 

Characters: 

2: Storm, Thunderbird III, Bishop, Beast, Rogue, Tessa, Crel, Khadar, Brainchild, Lupa, Delage 

3: Amphibius, Barbarus, Brainchild, Gaza, Leash, Lupa, Whiteout, Lupa, Leash, Rogue, Storm, Beast, Thunderbird III, Delage, Crel, Tessa, Mkai, Viri, Bishop, Jimi, Khadar 

4: Storm, Thunderbird III, Bishop, Beast, Rogue, Tessa, Brainchild, Delage, Crel, Whiteout, Gaza, Vertigo, Barbarus, Amphibius, Leash, Lupa, Khadar 

Plot: The X-Treme X-Men take a bunch of Saurids to live in the Savage Land. There they end up fighting the Savage Land Mutates. 

Note: What is Vertigo doing back with her old team? Isnt she one of Sinisters mauraders? Havent they been killed and cloned time and again? Well, whatever.. 





Bishop 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove) 

Rogue 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove) 

Storm 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove) 

Tessa 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove) 

Thunderbird III 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
XX 4 
*XX:SL 1 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 
XX 5 
XX 6 
XX:SL 1 (remove) 

Beast 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 3 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
X '01 
XX:SL 1 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Crel 
XX:SL 1 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 


Khadar 
XX:SL 1 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Lupa (new listing) 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Delage (new listing) 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Brainchild 
UX 275 
W2 69 
XU 6 
*XX:SL 1 
*XX:SL 2 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Amphibius 
UX 249 
UX 250 
UX 274 
W2 69 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Barbarus 
UX 250 
UX 274 
W2 69 
XU 6 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Gaza 
UX 274 
W2 69 
XU 6 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Leash (new listing) 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Whiteout 
UX 249 
UX 274 
CA 389 
CA 390 
CA 391 
CA 392 
XU 6 
*XX:SL 3 
*XX:SL 4 

Vertigo II 
CA 411 
XM 13 
XM 18 
*XX:SL 4 

Mkai, Viri, Jimi (Saurid children, not likely to appear again) 
*XX: SL 3 (if they merit a listing)

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 08:46 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Sorry, Dave, I thought from your subject line that this thread would ONLY be about XX:SL #1. I see you've altered it -- my mistake. 

I believe the Saurids in this series are the same ones that were introduced waaaay back in Claremont's Ms. Marvel series -- but I don't know which issue. #20something, perhaps? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 01:13 pm    
By Dhall

20 and 21 I think. I don't know if any named characters from these were in those.

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 05:46 pm    
By SeanCurtin

A Saurid named Serpentyne appeared in an issue of ROM, in which it was revealed that the Saurids had been killed by the Dire Wraiths. (Maybe they just left town without giving him a forwarding address and he assumed the worst. Or maybe not.) 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 85

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 07:44 pm    Post subject: XX 7-9
By Dhall

XX 7 
Getting Even! 
Characters: Storm, Thunderbird III, Heather Cameron (Lifeguard), Davis Cameron (Slipstream), The boxers, Bishop, Terri Baltimore, Inspector Bill Menzies, Lady Mastermind, Sage, Sebastian Shaw, Rogue, Gambit, Red Lotus 

Plot: Tbird, Storm, and the Camerons fight Boxers, Bishop makes small talk with the cops, Lady Matsremind manipulates Sage. Rogue and Gambit bring Red Lotus back to the flat, only to be ambushed by Shaw. Gambit & red Lotus tumble out the window and escape. Rogue is captured. 

XX 8 (Silent month, sigh.) 

Characters: Gambit, Bishop, Teri Baltimore, Rogue, Lady Mastermind, Sebastian Shaw, Sage, Red Lotus, Storm, Thunderbird III, Lifeguard, Davis Cameron (Slipstream) 

Plot: Gambit flirts with women, and beats up a jock, Bishop and Teri fight crime, Rogue flies Lady Mastermind around town, under the impression that Lady M is Gambit, Red Lotus fights Shaw, to try to rescue Sage, Rogue attacks Storm and Tbird who are still flying the Camerons around town, then Rogue thinks Bishop is Vargas, and attacks him, Gambit fight the Boxers, then manages to break Rogue out of the illusion. (when Tbird zaps Lady M) (Then they quite impossibly kiss..OOPS!) 

XX 9 Face the Music! 

Characters: Storm, Phoenix IV, Rogue, Sage, Lifeguard, Cameron Davis (Slipstream), Thunderbird III, Bishop, Gambit, Red Lotus, John Grey BTS, Examiner, Lady Mastermind, Sebastian Shaw, Teri Baltimore 

Note: Jeans appearance is after she became headmaster, and before her press conference in X 123, which is mentioned as being in a couple of hours (that puts this issue between X 122 and 123) 

Jeans father appears BTS due to the flowing dialogue Some creeps tried to torch my parents house at Bard college. The Students prevented it. My Father offered to resign from the schools faculty. Instead the schools administration issued a statement in total support of mutant rights. 

Plot: Jean has a psychic conversation with Ororo, where they go looking at clothes, dancing, and chat about Ororos love life, as well as discuss the events of X 117-122, and XX 1-8. In the meantime, Gambit clears his name with the Triad, and Heather and Sage team up to fight a psionic battle in Sages mind with Lady M and Shaw. 

Listings: 

Storm 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Thunderbird III 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Bishop 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Rogue 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Gambit 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 


Red Lotus 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Tessa (Sage) 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Black King 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Lady Mastermind 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Baltimore, Teri (new listing) 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Examiner 
XX 6 
*XX 9 

Menzies, Inspector Bill 
XX 5 
*XX 7 

Lifeguard (Heather Davis) 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Slipstream (Cameron Davis) 
XX 6 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 

Grey, Dr. John 
X 51 
XM 30 
UX 380 
*XX 9-BTS 

Phoenix IV 
X 121 
(X 122  not indexed in MCP or issue thread yet) 
*XX 9

			*	*	*

Thread 86

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 10:44 pm    Post subject: AVENGERS: STRIKE FILE #1
By Ant-Man

#1 
Bob Harras - writer 
Jeff Moore - penciler 
January 1994 

10 story pages 
6 page recap of Operation: Galactic Storm (no new material) 
15 pages of pinups ("Database Files") 

The Lunatic Legion is stationed in their hidden complex in the blue area of the moon. The detect an impact on the surface near their location, and go out to see what impacted with the lunar surface. They find a "record sphere" from the planet Cyllandra that is designed to seek out Kree lifeforms and convey the details of the Kree/Shi'ar War (Operation: Galactic Storm). After receiving the message (delivered by a visual recording by Sallen Bei), they vow to get revenge on the Avengers. 

Late at night, Crystal finds Vision on the roof of Avengers Mansion. Vision has just completed a defensive sweep of the solar system (?), and registered a Kree energy pattern, that quickly disappeared. Vision says that if there are Kree in the solar system, then the Avengers should beware. 

Appearances: 
Galen Kor 
Dylon Cir 
Kona Lor 
Bron Char 
Talla Ron 
1 of the Lunatic Legions's "bald twins" 
Crystal 
Vision
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Thread 87

Posted: 20 Sep 2004 10:24 pm    Post subject: X-Men 122-126 (and additions to X 117)
By Dhall

First off Additions to X 117: 

Glob Herman (new listing) 
*X 117 

Mammoth (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*X 117 

Smasher IV 
T 446 
AWC 82 
INH3 4 
*X 117 


Okay, now on with Imperial.. 

X 122 Imperial 

Characters: Smasher, Lilandra, Steersman Immundra, Radioman Jorrsk, Medic Forunn (deceased), Mammoth (Imperial Guard member, deceased), Cassandra Nova (in Charles Xaviers body), Glob Herman Emma Frost, 3 out of 5 Stepford Cuckoos, Angel Salvatore, Beast, Wolverine, Cyclops, Phoenix IV, Rinpoche, Xorn (who is really Magneto), Charles Xavier (in Cassandra Novas body) 

Plot: Things fall apartin this case the Shiar Empire. Lilandras crew is being driven insane and slaughtered by Cassandra Nova. Only Smasher manages to escape to warn Earth. Meanwhile on Earth, the X-Men prepare for Cassandra Novas return, each in their own way. Scott goes to seek out Xorn in a monastery. Smasher lands on Earth, in a field of cows, which he proceeds to warn about Cassandra Nova. 

Listings: 

Glob Herman (new listing) 
*X 117 
*X 122 

Mammoth (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*X 117 
*X 122 (dies) 

Smasher IV 
T 446 
AWC 82 
INH3 4 
*X 117 
*X 122 


Steersman Immundra 
*X 122 
Radioman Jorrsk 
*X 122 
Medic Forunn 
*X 122 
(These 3 should only be put in if were adding deceased minor characters) 

Lilandra 
X 117 
*X 122 


White Queen 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
X 121 
*X 122 

3 out of 5 Stepford Cuckoos (all 5 last in X 120) 
X120 
I have no way of telling them apart, so are we going to assign listings at random? Jeph? 
Anyway, 3 of them get: 
*X 122 


Salvatore, Angel 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
*X 122 


Beast 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
*X 122 

Wolverine 
X '01 
XFOR 120 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
X 121 
*X 122 

Cyclops 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
X 121 
*X 122 

Phoenix IV 
X 121 
*X 122 
XX 9 

Rinpoche (new listing) 
*X 122 

Xorn I / Kuan-Yin Xorn 

*X 01 
*X 122 

Charles Xavier (in Cassandra Novas body) 

X 117 
X 119-BTS (in storage, in Cassandra Novas body) 
X 120 (in Cassandra Novas body) 
X 121 (in Cassandra Novas body) 
*X 122 (in Cassandra Novas body) 

Cassandra Nova 
X 121-FB (in womb, likely to be her earliest ever app.) 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
X 117 
*X 122 

Edited: Because know we know that Magneto isn't Xorn....

Last edited by Dhall on 23 Oct 2004 01:02 pm; edited 2 times in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 09:42 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Except ... Xorn was revealed to be NOT Magneto, in Excalibur v3 #1. So, no, his listing SHOULDN'T be combined with Magneto's. 

Given that Xorn was revealed to be a real person in X #157, I'd list this guy as XORN IMPOSTOR / MAGNETO IMPOSTOR, until we learn his true identity. 

As for the Cuckoos -- I have no idea how to decide which is which in #122. Maybe we'll give it to the three that were named first -- Esme, Sophie, and Phoebe? 

Dave, I've been trying to answer the private e-mails you sent me last night, but they keep bouncing. What's your current e-mail address? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 10:37 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Supposedly a fuller explanation of the Magneto "impostor" claim is forthcoming in future issues of EXCALIBUR. I'm presently inclined to believe that Xavier is lying and has been tampering with Magneto's mind somehow - he's acting rather oddly, claims complete ignorance of everything happening in recent months, and has no memory of how he survived. To my mind, this spells mindwipe, and Xavier's simply using the impostor line to explain away the New York attack. And if he WAS sitting around in Genosha all this time, wouldn't some of the locals have noticed? Why would he be lying low? 

I'm not persuaded that the Magneto appearances in NEW X-MEN should be relegated to impostor status on the basis of one flimsy and unexplained reference from a book which is, itself, going out of its way to make clear that all is not as it seems.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 04:42 pm    
By Dhall

Jeph, 
Sorry about the email snafu. I changed my email, and didn't update my MCP profile.... My new email is dwhall@mn.rr.com 
Basically I had to move it from my old roommates server as he was moving.... 

I agree with Paul's interpitation on this one 100%. Clearly Xavier is pulling a fast one. What the true story is we won't know, but as of right now the storyline from X '01 through X 150 stands as written. 

If we get a definitive Retcon in Excalibur, fine, but the story doesn't appear to be heading in that direction to me right now. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 04:51 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Thanks, Dave, I'll e-mail you the info on Nightcrawler v2 you wanted. 

Another thought on the Cuckoos ... perhaps we could pretend that Morrison, by only showing THREE of the inseperable Cuckoos in X #122, was foreshadowing the deaths of Esme and Sophie -- and we could give the appearances here to the Cuckoos that managed to survive -- Phoebe, Celeste, and Mindee. 

Just a goofy thought -- but I think it'd make Morrison smile.  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Sep 2004 11:05 pm    
By Dhall

X 123 
Testament 
Characters: Angel Salvatore, Phoenix IV, White Queen, Esme (Stepford Cuckoo), Stuff, all 4 other Cuckoos, Wolverine, Beast, many reporters, Charles Xavier (in Cassandra Novas body), Cyclops, Arc, Gladiator, Squorm, Monstra, Xorn, Electron , Trish Tilby-BTS 

X 124 
Superdestroyer 
Characters: Xorn, Cyclops, Cassandra Nova (in Charles Xaviers body), Lilandra, Araki 6, White Queen, all 5 Cuckoos, Angel Salvatore, Phoenix IV, Beast, Wolverine, reporters, students, Charles Xavier (in Cassandra Novas body), Trish Tilby-BTS 
Blimp, Fader, G-Type, Gladiator, Manta, Monstra, Neosaurus, Oracle, Plutonia, Smasher, Squorm, Stuff, other Imperial Guards/Superguardian Elite, Electron, Neutron 

X 125 
Losers 
Characters: Lilandra, Araki 6, Cassandra Nova (in Charles Xaviers body), Cyclops, Xorn, all 5 Cuckoos, Angel Salvatore, White Queen, Beak, Phoenix IV, Beast, Wolverine, Charles Xavier (in Cassandra Novas body), reporters, students, Trish Tilby, 

G-Type, Gladiator, Manta, Plutionia, Smasher, Stuff, Neutron 

X 126 
All Hell 
Characters: Cyclops, Xorn, Lilandra, Araki 6, Cassandra Nova (in Charles Xaviers body and in Stuffs), all 5 Cuckoos, Angel Salvatore, White Queen, Beak, Phoenix IV, Beast, Charles Xavier (in Jeans body, and his own), Wolverine, Frida, students, reporters-BTS in Danger Room, Trish Tilby-BTS 

Gladiator, Manta, Plutonia, Smasher, Stuff, Neutron 

Plot: I couldnt do this one justice, so I wont try. 


Note: I put Trish BTS in 123-124, because to be in 125, she has to be with the group of reporters that we see in those two issues. We dont see the reporters at all in 126 (though they are all locked in the danger room) so if anyone objects to me putting Trish as BTS in X 126, speak up. 

Listings for X 122-126: 

Araki 6 (new listing) 

*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Arc (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*123 

Beak 
X 117 
X 119 
*X 125 
*X 126 


Beast 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
*X 122 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Blimp (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*124 


Cyclops 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
X 121 
*X 122 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Electron 
GUARD 1-FB 
GUARD 1 
GUARD 2 
GUARD 3 
*X 123 
*X 124 

Fader (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*124 

Forunn, Medic 
*X 122 

Frida (student at Xaviers) 
*X 126 

G-Type (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*X 124 
*X 125 

Gladiator II 
MAXSEC:DP 
UX 387 
MAXSEC 3 
X 117 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Glob Herman (new listing) 
*X 117 
*X 122 

Immundra, Stersman 
*X 122 

Jorrsk , Radioman 
*X 122 

Lilandra 
X 117 
*X 122 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 


Magneto (Xorn) 
UX 392-FB 
X 112 
UX 393 
X 113 
*X 01 
*X 122 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Mammoth (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*X 117 
*X 122 (dies) 

Manta 
UX 137 
ROM@ 4 
Q 32 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Monstra (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*X 123 
*X 124 

Neosaurus (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*124 

Neutron 
UX 107 
UX 108 
UX 109-FB-BTS 
UX 157 
XSOS 2 
AWC 81 
Q 33 
UX 387 
INH3 3 
INH3 4 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Nova, Cassandra 
X 121-FB (in womb, likely to be her earliest ever app.) 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
X 117 
*X 122 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Oracle 
H@ '97 
INH3 3 
INH3 4 
*X 124 



Phoenix IV 
X 121 
*X 122 
XX 9 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Plutonia (Imperial Guard) (New listing) 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Rinpoche (new listing) 
*X 122 

Salvatore, Angel 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
*X 122 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Smasher IV 
T 446 
AWC 82 
INH3 4 
*X 117 
*X 122 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Stepford Cuckoos  Celeste 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
*X 122 (Per Jephs suggestion) 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Stepford Cuckoos  Esme 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Stepford Cuckoos  Mindee 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
*X 122 (Per Jephs suggestion) 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 


Stepford Cuckoos  Phoebe 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
*X 122 (Per Jephs suggestion) 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Stepford Cuckoos  Sophie 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Squorm (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*X 123 
*X 124 

Stuff (Imperial Guard) (new listing) 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 

Tilby, Trish 
XX 5 
TB 57 
X 117-BTS 
*X 123-BTS 
*X 124-BTS 
*X 125 
*X 126-BTS 

White Queen 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
X 121 
*X 122 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 


Wolverine 
X '01 
XFOR 120 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
X 121 
*X 122 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 


Xavier, Charles (in Cassandra Novas body) 

X 117 
X 119-BTS (in storage, in Cassandra Novas body) 
X 120 (in Cassandra Novas body) 
X 121 (in Cassandra Novas body) 
*X 122 (in Cassandra Novas body) 
*X 123 (in Cassandra Novas body) 
*X 124 (in Cassandra Novas body) 
*X 125 (in Cassandra Novas body) 
*X 126 (in Jeans body, as well as in his own)

Last edited by Dhall on 22 Sep 2004 10:00 pm; edited 2 times in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 08:29 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Araki: 

If memory serves, in X #133, this Araki says that his name is Araki-6. 

However ... I'm lost as to why there are several Arakis at all. Aren't they all just appearances of Lilandra's same vizier? Why are they separated into Araki and Araki II in the MCP -- did the original Araki die or something? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 09:08 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Short answer: yes.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 09:18 am    
By Ant-Man

I think it was Uncanny X-Men #157 when the first Araki was killed.
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 05:51 pm    
By SeanCurtin

The original Araki died way back when, but another appeared in Operation: Galactic Storm; though IIRC that Araki was later revealed to be a Skrull, the Shi'ar took his appearance at face value (no "hey, aren't you dead?"), so presumably the multiple Arakis are clones of the original or near-identical relatives of one another. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 09:45 pm    
By Dhall

This is why I want to check into this. Araki I listing: 
UX 109-FB 
UX 122 
UX 125 
UX 135 
UX 136 
UX 137 
UX 154 
UX 155 
UX 157 
A 363 

The A 363 should be well after the first one died. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 10:02 pm    
By Dhall

Updated my above post to add Neutron, AND to change Araki III to his proper name (per X 133) of Araki 6. 

Mind you to my knowledge, this is only the second one we've seen (Araki II turning out to be a skrull imposter) and Araki I dying in UX 157. 

Again, I want to do some more research, but I don't have the time this week. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 88

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 01:13 am    Post subject: Spider-Man's Tangled Web #14
By SeanCurtin

Spider-Man's Tangled Web #14 (July 2002) 
"The Last Shoot" 

Prelude to Amazing Fantasy #15, revealing the circumstances of why Crusher Hogan put up actual money in an actual fight. Hammerhead appears prominently, pushing his origin back into the beginning of the Silver Age at least. 

Characters appearing: 
Crusher Hogan 
Marie Hogan 
Hammerhead 
Peter Parker (page 21 panel 6 & page 22 splash page; between Amazing Fantasy #15 page 5 panels 1 & 2; holding onto and jumping into the ring) 

HAMMERHEAD 
ASM 114-FB 
**TW 14 
**AAF 15-BTS ~ TW 14 
ASM 112-BTS 

**HOGAN, JOSEPH "CRUSHER" 
TW 14 pg 1 pn 1 - pg 20 pn 6 
{AAF 15 pg 4 pn 7} 
TW 14 pg 21 pn 1 - pg 21 pn 5 
AAF 15 pg 5 pn 1 
TW 14 pg 21 pn 6 - pg 22 pn 1 
AAF 15 pg 5 pn 2 - pg 5 pn 6 
ASM 271 

**HOGAN, MARIE 
TW 14 

SPIDER-MAN/PETER PARKER 
*AAF 15 pg 4 pn 7 - pg 5 pn 1 
**TW 14 pg 21 pn 6 - pg 22 pn 1 
*AAF 15 pg 5 pn 2 - pg 6 pn 1 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 89

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 12:46 am    Post subject: Spider-Man's Tangled Web #13
By SeanCurtin

Spider-Man's Tangled Web #13: "Double Shots" (June 2002) 

Al Kraven, the Vulture and a mystery guest get together at a Bar With No Name and shoot the breeze over their respective run-ins with Spider-Man over the last week. When prompted for his history with Spider-Man, the mystery man reveals himself to be Norman Osborn and flies out of the bar laughing. 

It's unclear from his dialogue if Osborn actually encountered Spider-Man in the last week or not. 

Flashback #1: Al Kraven loses a fight with the Human Torch and Spider-Man after fighting goons working for Tony Baritone (ba-dum-bum). 
Flashback #2: Vulture pulls a heist out in the woods and is stopped by Spider-Man. 

Characters appearing: 
Green Goblin 
Eddie Calab (bartender; first appearance) 
Stilt-Man 
Matador 
Rhino 
Tinkerer 
Mr. Hyde 
Timber Hughes (waitress, Kraven's girlfriend; first appearance) 
Whirlwind 
Radioactive Man 
Dr. Octopus 
Boomerang 
Firebrand 
Whiplash II (the female one) 
Vulture 
Rocket Racer 
Kraven the Hunter II 
Tombstone 

Other unidentified characters: unknown men at the table to the left (p2pn1), El Aguila-looking type (p2pn2 next to Tinkerer), blue shirt white headgear (p6pn1), man in blue and black (p6pn4), man in blue (next-to-last page, last panel, next to Whiplash) 

Calab is apparently the same bartender as the one in the Spider-Man: Sweet Charity promos who is named as Eddie. Timber and "Al Kraven" also appear there next. 

**BARITONE, TONY 
TW 13-FB-BTS 

BOOMERANG 
TB:LS 
**TW 13 

**CALAB, EDDIE 
TW 13 

DOCTOR OCTOPUS 
ASM2 36 
**TW 13 
PPTSS2 14-FB 

FIREBRAND II/BROXTEL 
NW 30-FB 
**TW 13 

GREEN GOBLIN/NORMAN OSBORN 
IM3 37 
**TW 13 

**HUGHES, TIMBER 
TW 13 

HUMAN TORCH/JONATHAN SPENCER STORM 
FF 54 
**TW 13-FB 
TB 57 

KRAVEN THE HUNTER II/ALYOSHA "AL" KRAVEN 
PPSM2 17 
**TW 13-FB 
**TW 13 

MATADOR/MANUEL ELOGANTO 
DD2 23 
**TW 13 

MR. HYDE/DR. CALVIN ZABO 
IM3 43 
**TW 13 
A3 57 

RADIOACTIVE MAN/DR. CHEN LI 
IM3 40 
**TW 13 

RHINO/ALEKSEI MIKHAILOVITCH SYTSEVITCH 
TW 6 
**TW 13 
AGENTX 6 

ROCKET RACER 
TW 5 
**TW 13 

SPIDER-MAN/PETER PARKER 
PUN6 2 
**TW 13-FB 
PUN6 33 

STILT-MAN 
DD/SM 3 
**TW 13 

TINKERER 
A3 27-BTS 
**TW 13 

TOMBSTONE 
TB 53 
**TW 13 

VULTURE/ADRIAN TOOMES 
PPSM2 12 
**TW 13-FB 
**TW 13 

WHIPLASH II 
HFH 4 
**TW 13 

WHIRLWIND/DAVID CANNON 
A3 44 
**TW 13 
A3 71 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 01:15 pm    
By Antonio Gavino

Quote: 
>>>
Other unidentified characters: unknown men at the table to the left (p2pn1), El Aguila-looking type (p2pn2 next to Tinkerer), blue shirt white headgear (p6pn1), man in blue and black (p6pn4), man in blue (next-to-last page, last panel, next to Whiplash)  
<<<

I believe some of the characters here have been often miscolored. The man in blue and black (6p4) is the Rocket Racer. The guy with blue shirt white headgear (6p1) is the same man in blue (next-to-last page, last panel, next to Whiplash) and he is the same guy in 2p2 (talking to Whiplash), 4p5, he has the same headgear and something around his shoulder, and is next to Wiplash almost every time. The one that I don't see is Firebrand, and who is that guy looking up to Stilt-Man on 34p6?

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 03:22 pm    
By SeanCurtin

That helps, thanks. The guy I thought was Firebrand (he probably isn't) seems to be the same guy as the one who's with Whiplash elsewhere; he's most clearly seen on page 4 panel 5, to the right of Stilt-Man. No idea on the guy looking up at Stilt-Man, though the headgear looks like one of the Wrecking Crew. Also unidentified: the guy to the right of Whiplash on the last panel of the next-to-last page. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Thread 90

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 07:14 am
By JLH

Inspired by (and an extension of) Sean Curtin's work

SQUADRON SUPREME: DEATH OF A UNIVERSE 
Marvel Graphic Novel 1989 

Writer: Mark Gruenwald 
Penciler: Paul Ryan 
Inker: Al Williamson 

BLUE EAGLE/JAMES DORE 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU-BTS (hibernacle seen) 

CEREBRAX 
SQS 6 
**SQSDU (called "Cerebrac" here) 

DR. DECIBEL/DR. ANTON DECIBEL 
SQS 10 
**SQSDU-BTS (hibernacle seen) 

DR. SPECTRUM/JOSEPH LEDGER 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
Q 13-FB-BTS 

FOXFIRE/OLIVIA UNDERWOOD 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU-BTS (hibernacle seen) 

GARDNER, PRESIDENT JULES 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
SQS:NWO 

GOLDEN ARCHER/WYATT MCDONALD 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU-BTS (hibernacle seen) 

HAYWIRE/HAROLD DANFORTH 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
Q 13-FB-BTS 

HYPERION/"MARK MILTON" 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
Q 13-FB-BTS 

INERTIA/EDITH FREIBURG 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU (dies) 

JONES, ANDREW "ANDY" 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
SQS:NWO 

JONES, BENJAMIN THOMAS 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU (becomes new Nth Man) 

JONES, DRUCILLA 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
SQS:NWO 

JONES, KATRINA "KATIE" 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
SQS:NWO 

JONES, PHILLIP 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
SQS:NWO 

LADY LARK/LINDA LEWIS 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
Q 13-FB-BTS 

MASTER MENACE/DR. EMIL BURBANK 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
SQS:NWO 

MOONGLOW/MELISSA HANOVER 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 

BLACKSUN/DR. THOMAS LIGHTNER 
**M/TIO 21 -FB 
**{M/TIO 21} 
**M/TIO 22 
**M/TIO 23 
**M/TIO 58 -FB 
**M/TIO 42 
Becomes OPERATIVE X/DR. THOMAS LIGHTNER 
**M/TIO 53 
**M/TIO 54 
**M/TIO 55 
**M/TIO 56 
**M/TIO 57 
Becomes NTH MAN/DR. THOMAS LIGHTNER 
**M/TIO 58 
**SQSDU -FB 
**SQSDU 
Becomes MYSTERIUM/DR. "JOSEPH" LIGHTNER 
**Q 13-FB-BTS 
Q 19-BTS 
(there's probably more and some details I'm missing, I wouldn't know THIS much about him if not for the appendix entry http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/mysteriu.htm) 

OVERMIND/GROM 
Q 16 
**SQSDU (possibly an alternate future's version, dies) 

PINBALL 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU-BTS (hibernacle seen) 

POWER PRINCESS/ZARDA 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
Q 13-FB-BTS 

**PROFESSOR IMAM 
WOSM@ 5/6-FB 
A 148-BTS 
A 149-BTS 
AWC@ 4/5-FB 
SQS 6 -BTS (Nighthawk prepares to enter his sanctum) 
{CA 314} 
SQS 7 -BTS (gave Nighthawk the stone to find Redeemers) 
SQSDU (dies) 

REDSTONE/MICHAEL REDSTONE 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU (dies) 

SCARLET CENTURION 
SQS 9 
**SQSDU 

SHAPE 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
Q 13-FB-BTS 

SHELDON, VICE PRESIDENT 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
SQS:NWO 

STEWART, MADELINE "MADDY" 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
SQS:NWO 

STEWART, TINA 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
SQS:NWO 

THERMITE/SAM YURIMOTO 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU-BTS (hibernacle seen) 

TOM THUMB/THOMAS THOMPSON 
SQS 12-BTS (hibernacle seen) 
**SQSDU-BTS (hibernacle seen) 

WHIZZER II/STANLEY STEWART 
SQS 12 
**SQSDU 
Q 13-FB-BTS 

Other Characters: 
Ralph & Don, cleanup workers at Squadron City 
President Gardner's cabinet members 
Scarlet Centurion's technicians 
Scarlet Centurion's Gladiatrixes and other assorted slaves 

_Synopsis:_ 
Scarlet Centurion's technicians are finally able to pierce the veil of time over the end of the 20th Century, only to discover the Squadron Supreme's Earth is preparing to meet its fate at the giant hand of a cosmic being. The final 12 hours, a week after the 12th and final issue of the Squadron Supreme maxi-series, play out. The Squadron continues their plan to undo everything Utopia Principal related. But Professor Imam makes them aware of the impending threat, and with the help of not only Master Menace, but Scarlet Centurion, they head into space to confront it. Casualties are suffered, and all hope seems lost as plan after plan fails in the wake of the engulfing form of the being they come to know as the Nth Man. It takes Arcanna's week old baby's willingness to switch places with the Nth Man to give the universe a new lease on life, and a Wizard Supreme replacement for the deceased Imam. 


JLH 


			*	*	*

Thread 91

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 07:16 am    Post subject: I was given improper credit in the update!
By Jason Doty

I was given credit for books I did'nt update in updates section. Unless their is another Jason Doty in the group. Please give the proper to the contributing individule.

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 09:43 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Thanks, Jason, but either there is more than one Jason Doty, or you've misread our Updates page. We list the books, followed by the person who contributed them. 

According to the Forum, you contributed DC v. Marvel: All Access here: 

http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=249 

and Green Lantern/Silver Surfer here: 

http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=273 


watching: college gameday

			*	*	*

Thread 92

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 01:31 pm    Post subject: Nighctrawler2 1-4
By Dhall

NC2 1 
Characters: 
Nightcrawler 
Father Whitney 
Kim, a thai girl 
Mrs. Emsoon 
Oleg 


2 
Characters: 
Nightcrawler 
Father Whitney 
Several deaf slaves 
Oleg 
Ted and other criminals, working for Oleg 


Kurt appears in fb, in between 1 and 2, watching & fighting the slavers. 

3 
Characters: 
Nightcrawler 
Father Whitney 
Kim, a thai girl 
Beatta, a prostitute 
Oleg 
4 
Characters: 
Nightcrawler 
Father Whitney 
Beatta, a prostitute 
Kim, a thai girl 
Mrs. Emsoon 
Oleg 

Plot: Nightcrawler fights Oleg and his slavery ring. 

Nightcrawler 
X 109 
XU 30/2 
XU 32/2 
*NC2 1 
*NC2 2-FB 
*NC2 2 
*NC2 3 
*NC2 4 
UX 395 
UX 396 
UX 397 
UX 398 
UX 399 

Whitney, Father 
*NC2 1 
*NC2 2 
*NC2 3 
*NC2 4 

Oleg 
*NC2 1 
*NC2 2 
*NC2 3 
*NC2 4 

Emsoon, Mrs. 
*NC2 1 
*NC2 4

			*	*	*

Thread 93

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 03:13 pm    Post subject: W2 169
By Dhall

W2 168 updates: 
Kirkpatrick, Chris (NSync) 
*W2 168 
Timberlake, Justin (NSync) 
*W2 168 


W2 169 
Characters: 
Wolverine 
Viper 
Ogun 
Also a wolv ogun fb 
Lord Ugama Hama (in fb) 
1st fb comes after w2 103-fb 
2nf detailing what Ogun has been up to: Helen Bach, Mr. X, Blok 

Plot: Part 3 of Bloodsport, Ogun is back, and possesses various people in Madripoor, including Viper. His plan is to take over Logans body. Logan uses his claws on Viper, driving Ogun out of her body. Logan makes Viper agree to a divorce, before getting her medical help. 

Flashbacks 1: Lord Ugama Hama comes to fight Ogun. Ogun declares that it is a matter of honor, and forbids Logan to interfere. Ogun fights Hama ninjas, then lets Hama stab him. Then, after recieveing a wound that should be fatal, he kills Hama instead. 
This Fb comes in the period when Ogun is training Logan. 

Fb 2: This is a series of one panel flashbacks, showing how Ogun went from body to body after W2 114, until he tried and failed to possess Mr. X, and ended up taking over Blok instead. 

Listings: 

Wolverine 
W2 103-FB 
*W2 169-FB 
W2 9-FB-BTS 
W2 106-FB 
.. 
W2 166 
W2 167-FB 
W2 167 
W2 168 
*W2 169 
UX 392 
X 112 


Ogun 
W2 113-FB 
W2 103-FB 
*W2 169-FB 
{KP&W 1} 
KP&W 2 
KP&W 3 
KP&W 4 
KP&W 5 
KP&W 6 
W2 89 
W2 111 
W2 112 
W2 113 
W2 114 
*W2 169-FB 
XCAL 111 
KPAOS 1 
KPAOS 2 
KPAOS 3 
*W2 169-FB 
*W2 159 (in Blok) 
*W2 160 
*W2 161 
*W2 168 
*W2 169 

Hama, Ugama Lord (new listing) 
*W2 169-FB 

Viper 
GENX 54 
X 109 
W2 167 
W2 168 
*W2 169 
XX 10 
XX 11 
XX 12 
XX 17 


Blok 
*W2 169-FB 
W2 159 
W2 160 
W2 161 
W2 168 

Mr. X 
W2 161-FB 
*W2 169-FB 
{W2 159} 
W2 160 
W2 161 
W2 167 
W2 168

			*	*	*

Thread 94

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 10:45 am    Post subject: XX '01, XX 10-18
By Dhall

Characters: 
XX 01 
First story : Bishop, Rogue, Sage, Storm, Thunderbird 
Gambit 
Gateway 
Bonebreaker, Wade Cole, Angelo Macon, Donald Pierce, Pretty Boy, Murray Reese, Skullbuster III 
The Shadow King 
Dr. Lian Shen 
Second story : 
Shadowcat 
Lockheed 

XX 10 
Characters: 
Bishop, Rogue, Sage, Storm, Thunderbird 
Gambit 
Lifeguard 
Davis Cameron (Slipstream) 
Viper 
Shaitan 
Khan II (Note theres a Khan listed in the MCP already, so this one is II) 

Note Pages 1-4 occur between pages 13 and 14 


XX 11 
Characters: 
Bishop, Rogue, Sage, Storm, Thunderbird 
Gambit 
Lifeguard 
Slipstream / Davis Cameron 
Red Lotus 
Captain America, Firebird, Iron Man, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Thor, Warbird, Wasp, Wonder Man, Yellow Jacket, Vision 

Shanna Cho 
Viper 
Shaitan 
Khan II 
Rove, Karl 
President Bush 


XX 12 
Characters: 
Bishop, Lifeguard, Rogue, Sage, Slipstream, Storm, Thunderbird III 
Red Lotus 
Viper 
Khan II 
Shaitan 
Largo 
a skinwalker 
Tigio 
Vargas 

XX 13 
Characters: 
Bishop, Lifeguard, Rogue, Sage, Slipstream, Storm, Thunderbird III 
Gambit 
Captain America, Iron Man, Wonder Man 
Khan II 
Shaitan, (as Storm ) 
Vargas 

XX 14 
Characters: 
Bishop, Lifeguard, Rogue, Sage, Slipstream, Storm, Thunderbird III 
Khan II 
Dukane, Mugu 
Jalene, Vargas,Thais 
Shanna Cho 

XX 15 
Characters: 
Rogue, Sage, Slipstream, Storm, Lifeguard, 
Bishop, Thunderbird III, Gambit 
Khan II 
Shaitan, (as Storm) 

Mr. Jellicoe 
Jalene 
Vargas 
Thais 

XX 16 
Characters: 
Slipstream,Rogue, Storm, Thunderbird III, Lifeguard, Bishop, Sage, Gambit 
Khan II 
Shaitan (as Storm) 
Vargas 

XX 17 
Characters: 
Bishop, Lifeguard, Rogue, Sage, Slipstream, Thunderbird III 
Gambit, Storm 
Shaitan (body, still as Storm) 
Shanna Cho, newswoman 
Madripoor Network News Cameraman 
Viper 
Vargas 
Thais 

XX 18 
Characters: 
Beast, Nightcrawler, Phoenix IV, Rogue, Sage, Slipstream, Storm, Thunderbird III, Wolverine 
Gambit, Bishop, Lifeguard 
Captain America, Iron Man 
Thing 
Shanna Cho 

Within Storms soul : 
David (John) and NDare Munroe, Storms parents (Both Storm and Jean meet them in Storms near death experience, so were going to have to treat this as some kind of afterlife appearance.) 

Plot: 

Ann XX01: There are two stories in this issue. In the first one, The X-Treme X-Men fight the Shadow King, and a reconstituted team of Reavers, led by Pierce. Note that there is a new Skullbuster. The first one (male) was rebuilt in the Domino series, but has not appeared since. The Second one (also called Cylla) was killed by Bloodscream. The one who appears here, is a new female Skullbuster. 

In the second Story, Shadowcat surfs the internet, positing on anti-mutant sites, and getting banned from them. Lockheed appears Note: Kitty has five missing volumes of Destinys diaries on her dorm room shelf. (She must have taken them when she left Xaviers) Methinks, that the X-Treme team was not trying too hard to locate them.. 



XX 10-18: These issues comprise one long extended story, about Khans invasion of Madripoor (and the Earth.) They also continue Vargas storyline from earlier issues of XX. There is no explanation of how Red Lotus got to Madripoor from Australia for XX 11 and 12, as he is not in 10. My understanding is that Claremont wanted him to join the team, but the editors said no, and things got a little muddled. Shaitain grabs Gambit, and uses him as a nexus for interdimensional travel. Sage jumpstarts Slipstreams powers, providing transportation to Madripoor for the X-Treme team. Madripoor is cut off from the outside world by Khans towers force field. The X-Men capture Khan in the first assault, Viper attacks Storm, Khan decides to make her his queen. Lots of fighty-fighty scenes, the X-Men eventually re-unite and stop the invasion, but Vargas manages to kill Shaitain, and put his sword through Rogue and Gambit. Sage jumpstarts Rogues powers, so that she can use the powers of those she has previously absorbed. Rogue goes after Vargas, and fights him. Storm, Rogue, Gambit, Lifeguard, and Slipstream are all injured during the course of this storyline. At the end of it, some of the Avengers, Thing, and Some X-Men come into help clean up, and get the X-Treme team some medical care. 


Listings: 

(Note: I am not going to try to speculate on before and after apps. for the Avengers, or Thing) 

Beast 
X 125 
X 126 
*XX 18 

Bishop 
XX 7 
XX 8 
XX 9 
*XX 01 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 13 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 
*XX 18 



Bonebreaker 
W2 38 
W2 39 
UX 281 
*XX 01 

Bush, George W. President 
*XX 11 

Captain America 
*XX 11 
*XX 13-FB 
*XX 18 


Cho, Shanna (new listing) 
*XX 11 
*XX 14 
*XX 17 
*XX 18 


Cole, Wade 
UX 262 
UX 269 
UX 281 
*XX 01 

Dukane (new listing) 
*XX 14 

Firebird 
*XX 11 

Gambit 
XX 6 
XX 7 
XX 8 
XX 9 
*XX 01 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 13 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 
*XX 18 


Gateway 
W2 125 
W2 141 
XX 4 
*XX 01 

Iron Man 
*XX 11 
*XX 13-FB 
*XX 18 

Jalene (new listing) 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 

Jellicoe (new listing) 
*XX 15 

Khan II (new listing) 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 13 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 


Largo (new listing) 
*XX 12 

Lifeguard 
XX 6 
XX 7 
XX 8 
XX 9 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 13 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 
*XX 18 


Lockheed 
W2 125 
W2 126 
XCAL 124 
XCAL 125 
*XX 01/2 

Macon, Angelo 
UX 262 
UX 269 
UX 281 
*XX 01 

Mugu (new listing) 
*XX 14 

Munroe, David 
UX 102-FB 
UX 102-FB 
*XX 18 

Munroe, NDare 
UX 102-FB 
UX 96-FB 
UX 102-FB 
UX 96-FB 
*XX 18 

Nightcrawler 
UX 399 
UX 400 
UX 01 
UX 401 
UX 402 
UX 403 
UX 404 
UX 405 
UX 407 
*XX 18 


Phoenix IV 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
X 121 
X 122 
XX 9 
X 123 
X 124 
X 125 
X 126 
UX 407 
*XX 18 

Pierce, Donald 
W2 141-FB 
W2 141 
GENX 69-FB 
*XX 01 

Pretty Boy 
UX 262 
UX 269 
UX 281 
*XX 01 

Quicksilver 
*XX 11 

Red Lotus 
XX 6 
XX 7 
XX 8 
XX 9 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 


Reese, Murray 
W2 38 
W2 39 
UX 281 
*XX 01 

Rogue 
XX 7 
XX 8 
XX 9 
*XX 01 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 13-FB 
*XX 13 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 
*XX 18 


Rove, Karl 
*XX 11 

Scarlet Witch 
*XX 11 

Shadowcat 
X 100 
X:D 
X 110 
*XX 01/2 

Shadow King 
X 77 
X 78 
W2 147 
*XX 01 

Shen, Lian Dr. 
*UX 253 
*UX 255 
*UX 257 
*UX 265 
*UX 266 
*UX 267 
*UX 278 
*UX 279 
*XX '01 

Shaitan (new listing) 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 13 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 (corpse) 


Skullbuster III (new listing) 
*XX 01 

Slipstream 
XX 6 
XX 7 
XX 8 
XX 9 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 13-FB 
*XX 13 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 
*XX 18 


Storm 
*XX 7 
*XX 8 
*XX 9 
*XX 01 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 13 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 
*XX 18 


Tessa (Sage) 
XX 7 
XX 8 
XX 9 
*XX 01 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 13 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 
*XX 18 

Thais 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 4 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 17 

Thing 
*XX 18 

Thunderbird III 
XX 7 
XX 8 
XX 9 
*XX 01 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 13 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 
*XX 18 


Thor 
*XX 11 

Tigio 
*XX 12 

Vargas 
XX 1 
XX 2 
XX 4 
*XX 12 
*XX 13 
*XX 14 
*XX 15 
*XX 16 
*XX 17 


Viper 
GENX 54 
X 109 
W2 167 
W2 168 
*XX 10 
*XX 11 
*XX 12 
*XX 17 

Vision 
*XX 11 

Warbird 
*XX 11 

Wasp 
*XX 11 

Wolverine 
X 124 
X 125 
X 126 
DPOOL3 60 
DPOOL3 61 
*XX 18 

Wonder Man 
*XX 11 
*XX 13-FB 

Yellow Jacket 
*XX 11 

Edited: to include the fact that Cap, Wonder Man, and Iron man only appear in the FB in XX 13, and to include Rogue and Slipstream in that fb.

Last edited by Dhall on 14 Oct 2004 08:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 09:11 pm
By SeanCurtin

Thais and Thaiis are two separate characters: IIRC, Thais is the male, Thaiis the female. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 10:11 pm    
By Dhall

I'v read that elsewhere too, but could not find a panel in a comic that gave the female character Thaiis, a name. Let me know if I've missed one, and I'll go and check. Since I coudln't find a name for her in a comic, I didn't list her. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 95

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 12:32 pm    Post subject: UX 408-409
By Dhall

UX 408 

Characters: Angel, Nightcrawler, Chamber, Iceman, Stacy X, Wolverine, Jason Treemont (Chef Jay-R-Tee), Mr. Childs, Vanisher 

Plot: The Designer Genes storyline has popped up again. Angel hatches a plan to buy out the Vanishers drug business. Stacy has an appointment with Chef Jay-R-Tee, an mutant who is dying. She uses her powers to ease his suffering. The Vanisher tries to consolidate the drug trade. 

UX 409 

Characters: Wolverine, Angel, Chamber, Mr. Childs  BTS, Vanisher, Stacy X, Cardinal Edward Hammond, Nightcrawler, Church of Humanity goons, Iceman 

Notes: Angel says Logan has been hanging around for the better part of a week (between issues.) Two weeks pass in between the hot tub scenes on pages 10 and 11, when Stacy uses her powers to keep the Vanisher out of the action. The Next day is Wednesday, July 3. This story definitely occurs post- X 126, there are references to Xavier walking. 

Plot: Stacy uses her powers to keep Vanisher occupied, while Angel buys out Vanishers operatives. Angel sets up a meeting with the Vanisher. Nightcrawler investigates a church where the Cardinal is taking the designer drug to gain mutant powers. The cardinal does this, and attacks Kurt, but the Church of Humanity shows up and kills the cardinal. At the meeting, Iceman freezes Vanisher, and the various thugs (taking the drug) who are loyal to him. Angel pretty much has taken over leadership of the Uncanny team. Logan still doesnt like Angel. Nightcrawler broods. 

Listings: 

Angel 
UX 406 
UX 407 
BHOOD 8 
*UX 408 
*UX 409 

Chamber 
UX 405 
UX 407 
*UX 408 
*UX 409 

Chef Jay-R-Tee/ Jason Treemont (new listing) 
*UX 408 

Childs, Mr. 
UX 399 
UX 407-BTS 
*UX 408 
*UX 409-BTS 

Hammond, Cardinal Edward (new listing) 
*UX 409 

Iceman 
UX 406 
UX 407 
*UX 408 
*UX 409 

Nightcrawler 
UX 407 
BHOOD 8 
XX 18 
*UX 408 
*UX 409 


Stacy X 
UX 406 
UX 407 
*UX 408 
*UX 409 

Vanisher 
XFOR 71-FB 
XFOR 81 
UX 01 
*UX 408 
*UX 409 

Wolverine 
X 125 
X 126 
BHOOD 8 
DPOOL3 60 
DPOOL3 61 
XX 18 
*UX 408 
*UX 409

			*	*	*

Thread 96

Posted: 12 Sep 2004 07:26 pm    Post subject: Avengers: Deathtrap:The Vault
By Dhall

I did a search for A:DV, and it came up with three characters: Dr. Pym, Vision, and Orka. Since it seems to be partially analyzed, here are all the characters who appear in the issue: 


Avengers: Death Trap: The Vault GN 
1991 
Writer: Danny Fingeroth, Penciler: Ron Lim 

Avengers: 
Dr. Pym 
Captain America 
She-Hulk 
Wonder Man 
Wasp 
Vision 
Hawkeye 
Iron Man 

Freedom Force: 
Mystique 
Blob 
Pyro 
Avalanche 
Crimson Commando 
Super Sabre 

Villains: 
Venom 
Controller 
Rhino 
Hydro Man 
Mentallo 
Moonstone 
Speed Demon 
Gorilla Man 
Electro 
Frenzy 
Vapor 
Thunderball 
Griffin 
Orka 
Bullet 
Ironclad 
Goliath 
Titania 
Vermin 
Klaw 
Piledriver 
Grey Gargoyle 
X-Ray 
Wrecker 
Scarecrow 
Armadillo 
Nekra 
Hyde 
Powderkeg 
Radioactive Man 

Others: 
Truman Marsh, warden (Dies) 
Mr. Stone, defense lawyer 
Judge, jurors 
Ms. Brewster 
Mr. Cunningham 
Guardsmen (Samuels, Billy, Stephens, Miller named) 

Brief Synopsis: 
Mentallo, and Venom engineer a mass break out at the Vault. Freedom Force and the Avengers are called in to stop it. 

Flashback: Page 46 panels 2-6: Powderkeg, Mentallo, and Vermin capture Dr. Pym and Iron Man. This Fb occur between Pages 25 and 45 of this issue. 

Note: Accoring to the listings already in the MCP, this occurs between A 318 and 319. For Freedom Force, it should be after the M/CP 82-87 and before UX 266 (with Mystique) or NM @ 7/2 (rest of team) I don't have chronology references for all of the villains..... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 11:55 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Is this a magazine-sized book or regular comic-sized? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 12:22 pm    
By Dhall

It is a Graphic Novel, so magazine size, not regular comic book size. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 12:54 pm    
By SeanCurtin

I think there was a later comic-sized reprint with a new cover. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 02:42 pm    
By rhod

It was reprinted as Venom:Deathtrap:the Vault. I don't believe any changes were made, other than to shamelessly cash in on the popularity of Venom at the time and change the title.

			*	*	*

Thread 97

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 06:34 pm    Post subject: UX 400-407 (including Ann '01)
By Dhall

Ux 400 
Characters: 
Archangel, Chamber, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Stacy X, Wolverine (all X-Men) 
The Supreme Pontiff 
The Church of Humanity 
UX Ann. 2001 
Characters: 
Archangel, Beast, Chamber, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Stacy X, Wolverine (all X-Men) 
Nick Fury, director of S.H.I.E.L.D. 
Vanisher 
Dizzy, Miguel and Luis, various operatives of the Vanishers organization 
UX 401 
Characters: 
Nightcrawler, Stacy X, Wolverine (all X-Men) 
Avalanche, Banshee, Multiple Man, Radius (all X-Corps) 
Mastermind II 
Blob 
Bill Clinton 
UX 402 
Characters: 
Archangel, Chamber, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Stacy X (all X-Men) 
Avalanche, Banshee, Blob, Mastermind II, Multiple Man, Sunpyre (all X-Corps) 
Mystique, posing as Surge 
Abyss / Nils Styger, Fever Pitch 
Several members of A.R.M. ,President Romano Prodi of the European Commission, Various G8 Delegates 
UX 403 
Characters: 
Archangel, Iceman, Chamber, Nightcrawler, Stacy X , Multiple Man, Fever Pitch, Radius (dies), Banshee, Husk, Jubilee, M, Avalanche, Blob. Mystique (as Surge),Abyss, , Mastermind II, Jakob Eisen, leader of A.R.M. 
UX 404 
Characters: 
Nightcrawler, Archangel, Chamber, Iceman, Stacy X, 
Avalanche, Blob, Fever Pitch, 
Mystique, posing as Surge 
Abyss, Sunpyre (dies), Mastermind II, Banshee, Multiple Man, Husk, Jubilee, M 

UX 405 
Characters: 
Archangel, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Stacy X 
Chamber, Banshee, Multiple Man, Husk, Jubilee, M, Mastermind II, Radius, Avalanche, Blob, Sunpyre (body), Fever Pitch, Abyss, Mystique 

UX 406 
Characters: 
Archangel, Iceman, Stacy X, Banshee, M, Multiple Man, Husk, Jubilee, Abyss 
Avalanche, Blob, Mastermind II, Mystique (all X-Corps infiltrators) Fever Pitch, 

UX 407 
Characters: 
Archangel, Chamber, Nightcrawler, Stacy X , Iceman, Phoenix IV, Multiple Man 
Feuer Langhagen, a friend of Nightcrawler, Mr. Childs (Worthington Industries board member)-BTS, President Romano Prodi of the European Commission 


Plots: Very briefly, 399  The X Ranch, 400  Church of Humanity, has the X-Men Vs. Christian Extremists, UX 01  The Vanishers drug trade, 401-406 The X-Corps storyline, featuring Banshee, and a bunch of random characters under the control of Mystique and Mastermind II, 407- Nightcrawler & Chamber sitting around. 


UX 01 Flashback: Angel punches The Vanisher in the jaw. This is a new flashback, with both characters in their original gear. I am placing it between pages 14 and 15 of UX 2, where Angel is fighting the Vanisher solo. 


Listings: 

Abyss 
C2 40 
C2 40-FB 
C2 40 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 


Angel 
M/CP 85/3-FB 
{UX 1} 
UX 2 
*UX 01-FB 
*UX 2 
TOS 49 
 
UX 394 
UX 395 
UX 396 
UX 397 
UX 398 
UX 399 
*UX 400 
*UX 01 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 
*UX 407 


Avalanche 
QS 9 
X 106 
C2 87 
*UX 401 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 


Banshee 
GENX 74 
GENX 72 
GENX 73 
UX 389-FB 
GENX 75 
*UX 401 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 

Beast 
X 117 
* X 118 
* X 119 
* X 120 
*UX 01 
*X 122 
*X 123 
*X 124 
*X 125 
*X 126 
*XX 18 

Blob 
UX 388 
C2 87 
X 112 
*UX 401 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 



Chamber 
UX 395 
UX 396 
UX 397 
UX 398 
UX 399 
*UX 400 
*UX 01 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 407 

Childs, Mr. (Board member of Worthington Industries) 
*UX 399 
*UX 407-BTS 

Clinton, Bill 
FF3 27 
IFW 3 
BP3 27-BTS 
*UX 401 

Eisen, Jakob 
*UX 403 


Fever Pitch 
GENX 50 
XM 50 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 


(Sorry, but I have no idea where Nick Furys appearance fits in his chronology) 
Fury, Nick 
*UX 01 

Husk 
GENX 66 
UX 388 
GENX 74 
GENX 75 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 


Iceman 
UX 399 
*UX 400 
*UX 01 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 
*UX 407 


Jubilee 
GENX 74 
GENX 75 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 

Langhagen, Feuer 
*XCAL -1 
*UX 407 

M II 
GENX 74 
GENX 75 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 


Mastermind IV 
W/G 2 
W/G 3 
W/G 4 
DD 352 
C2 87 
*UX 401 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 


Multiple Man 
XF 149 
XU 21 
UX '99 
*UX 401 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 
*UX 407 



Mystique 
UX 388 
BSHP2 16 
X 108 
UX 389 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 



Nightcrawler 
UX 395 
UX 396 
UX 397 
UX 398 
UX 399 
*UX 400 
*UX 01 
*UX 401 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 407 


Phoenix IV 
X 126 
*UX 407 

Prodi, Romano (President of the European Comission) 
*UX 402 
*UX 407 

Radius 
AF2 18 
AF2 19 
AF2 20 
W2 142-FB 
*UX 401 
*UX 403 
*UX 405 


Sunpyre 
UX 392 
X 112 
UX 393 
X 113 
*UX 402 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 (corpse) 


Stacy X 
UX 399 
*UX 400 
*UX 01 
*UX 401 
*UX 402 
*UX 403 
*UX 404 
*UX 405 
*UX 406 
*UX 407 



Supreme Pontiff 
*UX 400 

Vanisher 
UX 2 
* UX 01-FB 
*UX 2 
UX 26-BTS 
UX 27-BTS 
UX 28-BTS 
. 
XFOR 69 
XFOR 70 
XFOR 71-FB 
XFOR 81 
*UX 01 

Wolverine 
X 113 
TB 57 
CYCLOPS 1 (moved) 
CYCLOPS 4 
UX 394 
*XFOR 116 
*XFOR 120 
*DPOOL3 60 (moved) 
*DPOOL3 61 (moved) 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
UX 395 
UX 396 
UX 397 
UX 398 
CYCLOPS 1 (remove) 
XFOR 116 (remove) 
X '01 
XFOR 120 (remove) 
X 117 
X 118 
X 119 
X 120 
X 121 
*UX 400 
*UX 01 
X 122 
*UX 401 
X 123 
X 124 
X 125 
X 126 
BHOOD 8 



Dave H

Last edited by Dhall on 26 Sep 2004 05:20 pm; edited 3 times in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 06:46 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Feuer Langhagen previously appeared in XCAL -1. "Feuer" meaning "fire", that's probably not his real first name (although who knows). 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 07:59 pm    
By Dhall

Added *Xcal -1 to my listing for him.

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 08:14 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Fury's appearance is probably between ELEK2 5 and A3 58. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 03:47 pm    
By Dhall

Edited above post to move UX 400, UX '01, and UX 401 to before X 117, this only changes Beast and Wolverine's listings. Had to be done, as Beast cannot appear in anything else between X 117 and X 118 due to his injuries. sustained in X 117. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 05:25 pm    
By Dhall

(Sigh) re-edited Beast and Wolverine's listings in the above post, to take into account changes proposed by Jeph, Paul, Sean, myself, and others. 

Please note, those changes include moving XFORCE 116 and 120 earlier, as well as dpool 60 and 61 earlier to take account of both temporal and storyline references. 

Also note this agrees with the calendar placements for these issues, but my main concern is taking care of accurate character/storyline references, then temporal ones. 

The logic behind the above changes can be found in several threads, this thread, the general discusion on UX 399-401 in the Marvel Universe thread, AND the Brotherhood thread on the issue analysis forum. (So please if you are new to the discussion read those threads in addition to this one, before you post, it will save you time.) 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 98

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 12:21 pm    Post subject: X 127
By Dhall

X 127 

Xorn, Cyclops, Phoenix IV, Xavier, various people in mutant town 


Notes: Soon (but not necessarily right) after X 126. Xavier is still not used to legs. 

Plot: Xorn solo adventure. Interesting to note, that Xorns internal monologue talks about China, etc. Xorn goes to mutant town, with Cyclops and Phoenix. They quell a riot. Xavier works on adaptations to Cerebra. Xorn goes back to mutant town. There is talk of a monster, which turns out to be a twelve year old mutant boy. The boy and his mother have taken some pills which will kill them, because the mother can not bear to watch people or the government come to kill her son, which is what she is convinced will happen. Xorn tries to help them, but the boy (not understanding this) attacks him, then goes on a rampage, looking for medicine to help him and his mother. A policeman uses his flamethrower on the mutant, and he dies. Xorn later has lunch with a man from China whom he had met earlier on the train. 

Listings: 

Xorn I / Kuan-Yin Xorn 
X 124 
X 125 
X 126 
*X 127 

Cyclops 
X 125 
X 126 
BHOOD 8 
*X 127 

Phoenix IV 
X 126 
UX 407 
XX 18 
*X 127 

Xavier 
X 126 
BHOOD 8 
*X 127 

Edited: because as we know now, Magneto wasn't Xorn.

Last edited by Dhall on 23 Oct 2004 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 05:25 pm    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

It's not an internal monologue. It's a letter to Xavier.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 05:26 pm    
By Dhall

Hey your right, that's what I get for skimming..... 

Dave

			*	*	*

Thread 99

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 02:07 pm    Post subject: The Brotherhood 4-9
By Dhall

First some updates to Bhood 1-3 listings: 

ASHER, CARL 
BHOOD 1 
BHOOD 2-BTS (should be a full app.) 
BHOOD 3 

He is not BTS in 2, he is heard speaking to Michael from behind a door, that should entitle him to a full appearance. 

Marshal 
BHOOD 2 
(hes not named until BHOOD 5, but is still in this issue) 

LUDLUM, ROSS 
BHOOD 1 
BHOOD 2 
*BHOOD 3-BTS (The Ashers are watching Ludlums show, and awaiting his appearance, but hes not actually seen.) 

Principal Cromwell (minor character, doesnt matter if we put him in MCP or not) 
*BHOOD 3 

Silverman, Harold (hes one of the kids plotting to blow up the school, I list him only because he has both a first and last name.) 
*BHOOD 1 
*BHOOD 2 
*BHOOD 3 


Now, onto the New: 

BHOOD 4 Characters: Malon Estelle Reeves, Malcolm Reeves, Bryson Bale, Michael Asher, Hoffman, Fagin, Clive, Fiona, Bela, Orwell, Professor Xavier (unseen, but on the other end of a phone conversation with Mr. Reeves) 

Plot: In England: Bryson, Clive, Fiona, and Bela kidnap Malon Reeves, a rich mutant girl. In the process, Clive dies, and Bela loses a hand. Hoffman sends Michael Asher and Fagin to London. 

BHOOD 5 Characters: Malon Reeves, Bryson Bale, Malcolm Reeves, Bela, Fiona, Marshal, Dr. Perot 

Plot: Bela tortures Malon, but Bryson puts a stop to it. Marshal introduces himself to Mr. Reeves. Marshal captures Bela and Fiona, and tortures them for information on X. This results in Bela losing his other hand, and Fiona dying. Bryson takes Malon for a drive, and opens her eyes as to some facts about her father and uncle. They break into her Uncle (Dr. Perots) lab, where they find the remains of gruesome experiments performed on mutants fetuses.) Malon probably kills her uncle off panel, and definitely torches his lab. 

BHOOD 6 Characters: Malon Reeves (picks up the codename Simone in this issue), Bryson Bale, Malcolm Reeves, Marshal, Fagin, Michael Asher, Bela, Orwell, Hoffman 
(Malon and Bryson appear in videotaped fbs between issue 5 and 6) 

Plot: Malon has become a revolutionary (codenamed Simone), and started a relationship with Bryson. They attack her fathers properties. Fagin and Asher sit around watching Bryson and Malon. They end up splitting up into two groups. Asher wants to get out of the Brotherhood. Bryson wants to disappear, but Malon convinces him to go after her father instead. They do that, and Malcolm Reeves powers flare up, and Bryson garbs him and leaps off the building to their deaths. Malon is captured by Marshal, and in America, Hoffman and Orwell plot. 

BHOOD 7 Characters: Hoffman (Codenamed X), Orwell, Marshall, Michael Asher, Beckman, Malon Reeves , Fagin (BTS) (I give Fagin a bts, because he is imprisoned in the same facility as Michael Asher, and Malon Reeves, and Marshals dialogue indicates that he has been talking to Fagin as well as the other two.) 

Plot: Hoffman (who is X) whips up a rally, and attacks police in Philadelphia. Then he goes to a bar to meet Orwell, where he is attacked by an anti-mutant fanatic, whom he kills, then blows up the bar. Meanwhile, Marshal has Asher, Malon, and Fagin in custody, and persuades them to help him go after Hoffman. Hoffman reveals that him and Marshal were old friends. 

BHOOD 8 Characters: Malon Reeves, Fagin, Michael Asher, Marshall, Jane (Dick) Smythe, Hoffman, Orwell, Wolverine, Angel, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Xavier, Cable, Orphan, U-GO-Girl, Anarchist, Doop 

Plot: While the X-teams take down various Brotherhood cells, Hoffman and Orwell plot. Malon, Asher, and Fagin return to Hoffman, who gives them a mission, to kill a mutant who is supplying the enemy with information. They discuss it with Hoffman, who has a plan to leave a substitute dead body in the mutants place. They subdue the mutants, and use Ashers powers to burn down the building. Then they report to Hoffman. Hoffman tells them that their next mission is to assassinate Doop. 

BHOOD 9 Characters: Hoffman, Orwell, Michael Asher, Fagin, Malon Reeves, Marshal, Ms. Fingers, Doop, U-GO-Girl, Orphan, Anarchist, Vivisector, Lacuna, Phat, Spike II 

Plot: Final Issue! Hoffman sends Asher, Malon, and Fagin to attack X-Forces motorcade. This doesnt work out too well. The there decide to try to get X-Forces attention, but other mutants attack X-Force, and Fagin and Malon are killed (by X-Force) in the crossfire. Asher is wounded. Marshal reveals that he was working with Orwell to take down Hoffman. Hoffman attacks him, but kills Orwell instead. As asher lays dying, he uses his blood to blow up both Marshal and Hoffman. X-Force looks around wondering what just happened. 

New MCP Character Listings: 

Marshal 
BHOOD 2 
BHOOD 5 
BHOOD 6 
BHOOD 7 
BHOOD 8 
BHOOD 9 

Simone (Malon Estelle Reeves) 
BHOOD 4 
BHOOD 5 
BHOOD 6-FB 
BHOOD 6 
BHOOD 7 
BHOOD 8 
BHOOD 9 

Reeves, Malcolm 
BHOOD 4 
BHOOD 5 
BHOOD 6 

Bale, Bryson 
BHOOD 4 
BHOOD 5 
BHOOD 6-FB 
BHOOD 6 

Clive 
BHOOD 4 

Fiona 
BHOOD 4 
BHOOD 5 

Bela 
BHOOD 4 
BHOOD 5 
BHOOD 6 

Dr. Perot 
BHOOD 5 

Beckman 
BHOOD 7 

Jane (Dick) Smythe 
BHOOD 8 

Ms. Finger 
BHOOD 9 

Updated MCP listings: 

ASHER, MICHAEL 
BHOOD 1 
BHOOD 2 
BHOOD 3 
*BHOOD 4 
*BHOOD 6 
*BHOOD 7 
*BHOOD 8 
*BHOOD 9 

FAGIN 
BHOOD 1 
BHOOD 2 
BHOOD 3 
*BHOOD 4 
*BHOOD 6 
*BHOOD 7 - BTS 
*BHOOD 8 
*BHOOD 9 

HOFFMAN (his codename is X) 
BHOOD 1 
BHOOD 2 
BHOOD 3 
*BHOOD 4 
*BHOOD 6 
*BHOOD 7 
*BHOOD 8 
*BHOOD 9 

ORWELL 
BHOOD 1 
BHOOD 2 
BHOOD 3 
BHOOD 4 
*BHOOD 6 
*BHOOD 7 
*BHOOD 8 
*BHOOD 9 


Characters from other series: 

Note: I have the X-Men appearing in this tentatively between X-Men 126 and 127, and UX 407, and 408. Theres some other stuff in that period, but none of it is in the MCP yet, so we can nail it more precisely later. 

This is definitly open for debate, I've not made a detailed analysis of the X-Men for 2002 yet. 



And to quote from Pauls calendar: 
BROTHERHOOD #8 
Perhaps the day after BH 7. TV screens show presumably live footage of Professor X, the X-Men in their Morrison leather outfits, X-Force, and Cable, who is still in Brazil right after C2 105 (22) and before C2 106. Nightcrawlers presence with the X-Men suggests placement after his limited series. 

Professor Xavier 
UX '00 
BHOOD 4-BTS (already listed in MCP) 
X 109 
UX '00 
.. 

*BHOOD 8 

Wolverine 

*BHOOD 8 

Nightcrawler 

*BHOOD 8 

Cyclops 

*BHOOD 8 

Angel 

*BHOOD 8 

Cable (is still in the jungle, between Cable 105 and 106) 

*BHOOD 8 

Note: All X-Force characters appear between either X-Force 122 and 123, or 123 and 124. Sean and I both agree that the latter seems to make the most sense. 

Orphan 
*XFOR 122 
*XFOR 123 
*BHOOD 8 
*BHOOD 9 


U-Go-Girl 
*XFOR 122 
*XFOR 123 
*BHOOD 8 
*BHOOD 9 


Anarchist 
*XFOR 122 
*XFOR 123 
*BHOOD 8 
*BHOOD 9 

Doop 
*XFOR 122 
*XFOR 123 
*BHOOD 8 
*BHOOD 9 

Vivisector 
*XFOR 122 
*XFOR 123 
*BHOOD 9 

Lacuna 
*XFOR 122 
*BHOOD 9 

Phat 
*XFOR 122 
*XFOR 123 
*BHOOD 9 

Spike II 
*XFOR 122 
*XFOR 123 
*BHOOD 9

Last edited by Dhall on 18 Sep 2004 10:22 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Posted: 18 Sep 2004 09:34 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Thanks for the analysis! I hope you don't mind if I incorporate some of your text into the calendar... 

Quote: 
>>>
Note: I have the X-Men appearing in this tentatively between X-Men 126 and 127, and UX 407, and 408. Theres some other stuff in that period, but none of it is in the MCP yet, so we can nail it more precisely later.  
<<<


Any problem with an earlier placement for Brotherhood #8 -- before X 114 and UX 395 -- as in the calendar?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 10:03 pm
By Dhall

No problem that I know about, it just has to be sometime after the members of X-Force in Bhood 8 are on the team (so after X-Force 116-120) 

Oh, and while he's not in the video footage in Bhood 8, the picture of X-Force on page 1, includes Vivisector. 

Wolverine, Cyclops, etc. are in their black leather (with yellow X on the sleeves) jackets. 
Since they got those presumably sometime before X 114, I would have no problem with this placement. In fact, I should probably re-arrange some of my books to be closer to the calender. I've done that for some of the more recent ones, and it seems to work. 

Oh, by the way if you want to use any of my text for the calender, please go right ahead. 

Dave H

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Posted: 18 Sep 2004 10:11 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
Wolverine, Cyclops, etc. are in their black leather (with yellow X on the sleeves) jackets. 
Since they got those presumably sometime before X 114, I would have no problem with this placement. In fact, I should probably re-arrange some of my books to be closer to the calender. I've done that for some of the more recent ones, and it seems to work. 
<<<

Personally, I find the calendar to be less helpful and textually reliable than the regular MCP chronologies, and would rather the two remain distinctly separate entities. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 10:14 pm    
By Dhall

True Sean, but I haven't made an analysis of the X-Men for 2002, so I am willing to defer to others on them right now, until we have MCP listings. 

I think we need to open it up, does anyone know exactly the previous and next app. for the X-Men who appear in Bhood 8? 

And looking at Wolverine's MCP listing, I see that X-for 120, comes between X 116 and 117, as well as after UX 398. 

We know this issue has to come after Xforce 122 (and possibly 123) 

Dave H 

Wolverine 

UX 394 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
UX 395 
UX 396 
UX 397 
UX 398 
CYCLOPS 1 
XFOR 116 
X '01 
XFOR 120 
X 117 
DPOOL3 60 
DPOOL3 61

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 02:55 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
Personally, I find the calendar to be less helpful and textually reliable than the regular MCP chronologies, and would rather the two remain distinctly separate entities. 
>>>


The two ARE seperate; the calender is simply housed here at this website along with the MCP. Paul B. has actually stated that he's constructing the calender without neccesarily relying too much on the MCP at times, (to see if he arrives at different conclusions than Russ about chronology placement). However, it is hoped that the Calender will be helpful for the MCP, and that the MCP will be helpful to the Calender. The two are supposed to compliment each other, but not neccesarily arrive at the same conclusions. 

My personal opinion: If Dhall wants to try character placement closer to what the calender has for placement, I say go for it, but if you find it doesn't work, let us know. The Calender and the MCP are always willing to adjust placement if new information comes to light.
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

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Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:21 pm    
By Dhall

When I say that, I know that neither the MCP or the calendar is perfect at this point..... 

What I am saying is that I am trying to use the MCP for placement of issues which are already in the MCP (baringany errors that we might find) 

and that for everything that isn't in the MCP, I look at the calendar as a way to make rough placements, that we can check against existing MCP entries. 

Obviously, we're going to discover errors in both sets of listings. It's more a matter (for me) that there are lots of issues that are in the calendar, but not in the MCP yet, and I want to flesh out and add to the MCP listings. 

I also look at the calendar in this way: It's been posted, and much of it has already been vetted by various people on the board. A lot of the apparent contradictions between storylines have already been looked into. 

That doesn't make it perfect by any means, it's just that it's what we have now, since we don't have MCP style listings for every issue yet. 


That's my two cents of course, everyone is going to use the calendar a little differently, if they use it at all. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2004 04:24 pm    
By Dhall

anyway, back on the thread topic. What I am getting at is that Bhood 8 cannot come before X 114, UNLESS the X-Force issues that Wolverine appears in, ALSO come before 114. Does anyone have any opinions on the subject? 

Dave H

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Posted: 25 Sep 2004 04:46 pm    
By Dhall

Okay, since no one has objected.... 

Wolverine 

X 113 
*XFOR 116 (moved) 
*XFOR 120 (moved) 
TB 57 
*BHOOD 8 
CYCLOPS 1 
CYCLOPS 4 
UX 394 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 
UX 395 
UX 396 
UX 397 
UX 398 
XFOR 116 (remove) 
X '01 
XFOR 120 (remove) 
UX 400 

Prof. Xavier 
X 112 
UX 393 
X 113 
*BHOOD 8 
CYCLOPS 1 
CYCLOPS 4 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116 

Nightcrawler 
NC2 1 
NC2 2-FB 
NC2 2 
NC2 3 
NC2 4 
*BHOOD 8 
UX 395 
UX 396 


Angel 
X 109 
IM3 37 
TB 57 
*BHOOD 8 
UX 394 
UX 395 

Cyclops 
UX 393 
X 113 
TB 57 
*BHOOD 8 
CYCLOPS 1 
CYCLOPS 2 
CYCLOPS 3 
CYCLOPS 4 
UX 394 

Cable 
*BHOOD 8 (betwen C2 105 and 106, these not indexed yet.) 

Does this work for everyone? 

Dave H

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Posted: 25 Sep 2004 09:28 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Personally, I find it a little ridiculous to place the entire Brotherhood series and X-Force 116-123 and the Iceman miniseries and the Nightcrawler miniseries and the Cyclops miniseries between X 113-114. (After all, the contextual gap in time is between issues 116-117, not 113-114.) Is there any reason that BHOOD 8 can't be placed after X 126? 

-Sean

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Posted: 25 Sep 2004 10:27 pm    
By Dhall

Hmmn. the limited series that you mentioned pretty much have to go before 114. The Morrisson era leathers, and real Xavier, along with pre-austin Jugernaut in the Cyclops series, or the pre-X '01 John Sublime-BTS cameo in Iceman, or Kurt's not having been with the x-men in so long, kind of force the early placement. 

Also it seems to me that there is a much larger time gap between X 113 and 114, than between X 116 and 117. Phoenix mentions later on that Xavier went public (116), and then left for Shi'ar space pretty much right away(117.) There could easily be three to six months between 113 and 114. 

By the way, on my list, I only have those miniseries, and X-Force 116-123, and Brotherhood 7-9 in between X 113 and 114. 

I have the first four issues placed around X 109 , when Xavier makes his BTS cameo in #4.....I figure Brotherhood takes place over a few months...... 

I know I previously had the end of Brotherhood much later, but it seems to make more sense to have an earlier placement. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 11:08 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Why push Brotherhood so far from its publication date? If the series does cover a span of months, then placing BHOOD 4 between X 113 & 114 and BHOOD 8-9 between X 126 & 127 should work. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 12:40 am    
By Dhall

Hmmn, that could work, I was trying to work Jeph's thoughts about Nightcrawler's chronology into this: 

>>>
Nightcrawler v2 #1-4 - I'm placing this issue here as Kurt's last solo adventure before he rejoins the team [he left in XU #30, and was back as of Brotherhood #8 and UX #395] 
<<<

But truthfully, does Brotherhood 8 have to occur right after Kurt's solo period? 
Looking over the issue again, I would say no it doesn't. Kurt is with the X-men in this issue, not on his own. 

I think the early part of the Brotherhood series has to come pre-X 114, but since Kurt is with the team in #8, it could come after X 126.... 


So who is right Sean or Jeph????? 

I can see a case being made for either placement, and as far as publication order Bhood 8 and 9 were published in Feb. and March 2002, the same time as X 121 and 122. So really we are talking shifting them either half a year back, or four months forward. 

Either way, somebody settle this, so I can write up the listings..... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 10:28 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

My original thoughts on placing Brotherhood #8 so far back were because of Cable's cameo -- he appears there in Brazil, so I placed it right after his Rio adventure in Cable #105. 

However, at the time, Soldier X #1 and its infamous two-year gap had just come out -- and we hadn't yet figured out that Soldier X's framing sequences were set in the *future* -- so we were trying to push all Cable issues back as far as possible, to *create* a 2-year gap -- which meant pushing Brotherhood #8 back as well. 

Now that there's no need to create a gap that large between "Cable" and "Soldier X", Brotherhood #8 could easily come up to between X #126-127 -- as long as it stays between Cable #105-106. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 11:21 am    
By Dhall

In that case, I would rather argue for a post X 126 placement for Brotherhood 8, than the one I posted. I originally had these post- X 126, but I thought Jeph was saying that it wasn't possible.....I'll change my listings.... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 11:34 am    
By Dhall

A post X126 placemnet for Bhood 8 gives us: 

Angel 
UX 402 
UX 403 
UX 404 
UX 405 
UX 406 
UX 407 
*BHOOD 8 

Cable 
*BHOOD 8 (between cable 105 and 106) 

Cyclops 
X 124 
X 125 
X 126 
*BHOOD 8 

Nightcrawler 
UX 405 
UX 407 
*BHOOD 8 
XX 18 

Wolverine 
X 124 
X 125 
X 126 
*BHOOD 8 
DPOOL3 60 
DPOOL3 61 
XX 18 

Xavier 
X 124 
X 125 
X 126 
*BHOOD 8 

Is everyone happy with this? I think it is better than forcing these Brotherhood issues earlier, since according to Jeph doing so does NOT mess up Cable or Nightcrawler's chronology. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 02:29 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

It's possible to make this work on the calendar by: 

Moving C2 105 from May 7 to July 1 
Moving BH 7 from May 7 to July 11 
Moving BH 8 from May 8 to July 12 
Moving BH 9 from May 9 to July 13 
Moving C2 106 from June 14-17 to July 13-16 
Moving C2 107 from June 28 to July 18 
(And moving the story in W2 181-182 out of the way.) 

I already have UX 407 on July 11 
I already have XX 10-13 on July 12 
I already have XX 14-18 on July 13 

This way UX 407 occurs first (7/11), then BH 8 (7/12), then XX 18 (7/13). X 126 still occurs back on May 28, and X 127 on August 1. 

One question, though: is there a reason DPOOL3 60-61 needs to follow BH 8? I currently have that story back in March, and I have no room to squeeze it between BH 8 and XX 18. And Sandi says in DPOOL3 67 that "it's only June." Moving a bunch of issues of DPOOL3 around will be a challenge, given the many guest appearances in that title.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 04:45 pm    
By Dhall

The only reason I have it there, is because a) it's already in the MCP 
b) That's roughly where it is on my list (though I haven't analyzed it myself, so I'm not saying that's where it goes.) 

So, no it doesn't have to go there....but I do need you to tell me where you think it should go in Logan's listing. How far do you want to move it up, could Dpool 60 and 61 go between x 126 and bhood 8, or do they have to go earlier? Perhaps after X 117? 

And by the way, UX 409 says part of it take splace on July 3, is it possible to make that work? (keeping in mind that two weeks pass right before that reference?) 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 04:58 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
How far do you want to move it up, could Dpool 60 and 61 go between x 126 and bhood 8, or do they have to go earlier? Perhaps after X 117?  
<<<

A bit before X 114, actually. The Calendar shows the placement. 


Quote: 
>>>
And by the way, UX 409 says part of it take splace on July 3, is it possible to make that work? (keeping in mind that two weeks pass right before that reference?)  
<<<


The reference is to "Wednesday, July 3." I had a difficult time making that fit so I came up with "Wednesday, July 31," explaining that a digit was dropped.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 05:28 pm    
By Dhall

This is what I have now, it seems to fit with the calendar. 

Wolverine 
X 113 
TB 57 
*CYCLOPS 1 (moved) 
*CYCLOPS 4 
UX 394 
*XFOR 116 (moved) 
*XFOR 120 (moved) 
*DPOOL3 60 (moved) 
*DPOOL3 61 (moved) 
X 114 
X 115 
X 116

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 07:36 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Paul: 

No, DP3 #60-61 and BHOOD #8 have no relation to one another, other than Cable's appearance in both. 

Personally, I have the DP3 issues occuring between C2 #100-101, and the BHOOD issue occuring after C2 #105. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 07:47 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
Personally, I have the DP3 issues occuring between C2 #100-101, and the BHOOD issue occuring after C2 #105.  
<<<


Those placements are in the Calendar, too. Well, they would be if I had remembered to include C2 100! I'll fix that...
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 100

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 06:41 pm    Post subject: Exiles Infinity,1-11, Ultraforce 12, Ultraverse Unlim 2
By Dhall

Exiles Infinity 

Into the Breach 

September 1995 

Marvel Characters: 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 
Juggernaut 


Malibu Characters: 
Strike (Brandon Tark) 
Shuriken 
Amber Hunt 
Tradesman 

Plot: Ok, before I describe it, I should say that I dont like the Ultraverse, only own these issues due to X-related characters appearing in them, and anything subtle going on in them is likely to be lost on me. Still, since no one else is analyzing them, Im willing to take on the task for at least the Exiles. 

Strike has dreams about the Marvel characters. Shuriken is doing something in a top secret base. On Marvel Earth, (Florida) Reaper and Siena fight. He says that the MLF invited her to test her out, and she says she responded only to target him for the upstarts. 
They fight, Siena uses her powers, there is a big explosion. 
Meanwhile, Juggernaut is pulled through dimensions (from Wolverine 93) 
Back on Malibu earth, Strike and Shuriken are both hunting Amber Hunt. She wants her alive, he wants to kill her. They fight, theres an explosion. 
Both sets of characters are drawn to some kind of world between the two earths, where there are dinosaurs. Reaper meets someone called he Tradesman. He comes back to the camp, attacks both Siena and Amber with his staff, and there is some kind of dimensional portal opened. 

Note that the Exiles are already listed in Juggernauts chronology correctly as: 

W2 93 
EXI 
EX 1 
EXVX 0 
EX 2 
EX 3 
EX 4 
EX 5 
UX 333 

Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 

Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 

The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries: 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 

Shuriken 
*EXI 

Amber Hunt 
*EXI 

Tradesman 
*EXI

Last edited by Dhall on 28 Sep 2004 09:59 am; edited 5 times in total

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Posted: 27 Sep 2004 06:56 pm    Post subject: Exiles 1
By Dhall

Exiles (Malibu) 1 

Out of the Frying Pna 

Marvel: 
Reaper 
Juggernaut 
Siena Blaze 

Malibu: 

Amber Hunt 
Shuriken 
Strike 
Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 


Plot: The Exiles appear out of nowhere, destroying half of NYC in the process.they fight soldiers, escape, go to Strikes penthouse, where Siena whines about her powers being cut in half. Quine attacks. The Exiles fight him, then he disappears. 



Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 

Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 

The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries: 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 

Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 

Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 

Tradesman 
*EXI 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1 

Second Story: 
Wave of Mutilation 
Black Knight 

Topaz 
Felicia Campbell 
Prime 
Prototype 
Cromwell 
Ghoul 
A mad Ultra bomber 
An intangible girl 

Plot: The Ultras get their own HQ from the government. 
NOTE: On the cover it says Ultraforce #1 inside, so this may be the same story as that. I have no idea

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 07:06 pm    Post subject: Exiles Vs. X-Men 0
By Dhall

Exiles Vs. X-Men 0: 

Note the following characters already have listings for this issue: 
Beast 
Gambit 
Gateway 
Iceman 
Juggernaut 
Phoenix IV 
Professor X 
Rogue 
Storm 

Additional Marvel: 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 


Malibu: 
Strike 
Shuriken 
Amber Hunt 

Plot: Xavier sends the X-Men to find Cain. Thanks to Gateway they end up in the Ultraverse. Thee is a pointless fight, and then the two teams team up against some interdimensional creature. The upshot is that the Exiles cannot leave Malibu Earth w/o it coming back again, so they decide to stay. The X-Men return home. 

Additional listings: 

Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 

Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 

The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries: 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
*EXVX 0 

Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 

Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 

Tradesman 
*EXI 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 07:07 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Technically this is the second Ultraverse Exiles series; the first was a four-issue mini that introduced Amber Hunt, Ultraforce's Ghoul, and a few others. It would make sense to put the Ultraverse characters on a separate page rather than putting them in with the Marvel Universe characters or ignoring them completely. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 07:31 pm    Post subject: Exiles 2
By Dhall

Skipping over the Phoenix Res issues which occur between Vs. X-Men and this issue, I believe. 


Exiles 2: 

Second Story: Amber Hunt has some type of Phoenix Vision. 
This is already written up in the issue thread, under the Phoenix Res thread. 
It is the fifth chapter in the Phoenix Ressurection (also reprinted in Phoenix Res #0) 


First Story: 

Marvel: 
Juggernaut 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 

Malibu: 
Amber Hunt 
Strike 
Shuriken 
Hellblade 
Tradesman 

Plot: Cain dreams about Amber and Black Tom. Hellblade kills the Tradesman, and fights Reaper. 

Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 

Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 

The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries: 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
*EXVX 0 
*EX 2 

Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 

Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2/2 
*EX 2 

Tradesman 
*EXI 
*EX 2 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1 


Hellblade 
*EX 2 

Yeah, a seperate page would be nice.....

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 07:41 pm    Post subject: Exiles 3
By Dhall

Exiles 3 

Marvel: 
Juggernaut 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 

Malibu: 
Hellblade 
Strike 
Shuriken 
Amber Hunt 
Quine 

Plot: The Exiles fight Hellblade, and then Quine. 

Second Story: 
Hellblade 
Angel (Danielle) 

Plot: hellblade narrates his origin to Danielle. 

Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 

Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 

The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries: 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
*EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 

Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 

Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2/2 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 

Tradesman 
*EXI 
*EX 2 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1 
*EX 3 

Hellblade 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 

Angel (Danielle) 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 3/2 
*EX 3

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 08:31 pm  
By Jim Smith

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
NOTE: On the cover it says Ultraforce #1 inside, so this may be the same story as that. I have no idea 
<<<


Apparently Ultraforce #1 didn't live up to Malibu's standards, due to some publishing problem that caused the artwork to be poorly reproduced. To make it up to the readers, they included a complete reprint of the issue in Ultraforce #2, and apparently Exiles #1 as well.

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 09:23 pm    Post subject: Exiles 4-5
By Dhall

Exiles 4 

Marvel: 
Juggeranut 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 


Malibu: 
Catapult 
Prime 
Prototype 
Topaz 
Lament 
Ghoul 
Detective Lanois 
Cromwell 
Felicia Campbell 

Amber Hunt 
Shuriken 
Strike 
Hellblade 


Plot: Theres a Ultra killer on the loose, and The Exiles and Ultraforce fight each other than team up to stop it. 

Exiles 5 
Marvel: 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 
Juggernaut 

Malibu: 
Strike 
Amber Hunt 
Hellblade 
Shuriken 

Harvest 

More Tradesmen 

Note: The Exiles battle Harvest, then they talk to the tradesmen (more of the same species from the first few issues) They want someone dead in repayment for the tradsmen agent who died, Reaper offers to kill Juggernaut, but instead uses his scythe to make Juggernaut go back to Earth-616.. 

Second Story: 

Marvel: None (except as holograms) 


Malibu: 
Amber Hunt 
Shuriken 
Hellblade 
Sixx 



Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 

Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 

The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries: 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
*EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 

Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 


Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2/2 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 


Tradesman 
*EXI 
*EX 2 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1 
*EX 3 

Hellblade 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 


Angel (Danielle) 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 3/2 
*EX 3 

Catapult 
*EX 4 

Prime 
*EX 4 

Prototype 
*EX 4 

Topaz 
*EX 4 

Lament 
*EX 4 

Ghoul 
*EX 4 

Detective Lanois 
*EX 4 

Cromwell 
*EX 4 

Felicia Campbell 
*EX 4 

Harvest 
*EX 5 


Sixx 
*EX 5/2

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 08:57 am    Post subject: Exiles 6-7
By Dhall

Exiles 6 

Marvel: 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 

Malibu: 
Hellblade 
Shuriken 
Strike 
Amber Hunt 

Moloch 
Angel (Danielle) 

Plot: Moloch (a slime creature) convinces Hellblade that the Exiles arent real, that theyre on a TV show, and that hes a normal guy with a normal family. He realizes that is a lie, and comes to in time to help the Exiles fight Moloch. 

Exiles 7 

Marvel: 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

Malibu: 
Strike 
Shuriken 
Amber Hunt 
Hellblade 
Angel (Danielle) 
Cayman 

Plot: In a swamp, the Exiles fight and meet Cayman. 

Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 

Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 

The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries, I think they should go on a separate page. 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
*EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 


Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 



Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2/2 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 


Tradesman 
*EXI 
*EX 2 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1 
*EX 3 

Hellblade 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 



Angel (Danielle) 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 3/2 
*EX 3 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 


Catapult 
*EX 4 

Prime 
*EX 4 

Prototype 
*EX 4 

Topaz 
*EX 4 

Lament 
*EX 4 

Ghoul 
*EX 4 

Detective Lanois 
*EX 4 

Cromwell 
*EX 4 

Felicia Campbell 
*EX 4 

Harvest 
*EX 5 


Sixx 
*EX 5/2 


Moloch 
*EX6 

Cayman 
*EX 7

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 09:23 am    Post subject: Exiles 8-10
By Dhall

Exiles 8 

Marvel: 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

Malibu: 
Strike 
Amber Hunt 
Shuriken 
King, Elizabeth 
Cayman (BTS) 
Hellblade 


Gorask 1223 
Karsol 
Maxis 

Plot: Maxis comes to Earth, grabs Elizabeth King, and fights the Exiles, who rescue the girl. (Caymen is BTS, as Strike has sent him out scouting.) 

Exiles 9 

Marvel: 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

Malibu: 
Strike 
Shuriken 
Amber Hunt 
Hellblade 
Cayman 
Rocket 
Blast 
Benway, Doctor 
Discord, Doctor 
Velvet Fist 
Buck Lonestar 

Exiles 10 

Marvel: 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 

Malibu: 
Cayman 
Amber Hunt 
Strike 
Shuriken 
Hellblade 
Rocket 
Blast 
Velvet 
Lonestar 
Benway, Doctor 
Discord, Doctor 

Plot for 9 and 10: 
Aladdin (some sort of secret organization) sends two teams to bust up the Exiles, they all fight, and at the end the Exiles decide to stay together. 

Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 


Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 


The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries, I think they should go on a separate page. 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
*EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 



Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 



Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2/2 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 


Tradesman 
*EXI 
*EX 2 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1 
*EX 3 

Hellblade 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 




Angel (Danielle) 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 3/2 
*EX 3 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 


Catapult 
*EX 4 

Prime 
*EX 4 

Prototype 
*EX 4 

Topaz 
*EX 4 

Lament 
*EX 4 

Ghoul 
*EX 4 

Detective Lanois 
*EX 4 

Cromwell 
*EX 4 

Felicia Campbell 
*EX 4 

Harvest 
*EX 5 


Sixx 
*EX 5/2 


Moloch 
*EX6 

Cayman 
*EX 7 
*EX 8-BTS 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

King, Elizabeth 
*EX 8 


Gorask 1223 
*EX 8 

Karsol 
*EX 8 

Maxis 
*EX 8 

Rocket 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Blast 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Benway, Doctor 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Discord, Doctor 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Velvet Fist 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Buck Lonestar 
*EX 9 
*EX 10

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 09:33 am    Post subject: Exiles 11
By Dhall

Exiles 11 

Marvel: 
Siena Blaze 
Reaper 

Malibu: 
Strike 
Cayman 
Amber Hunt 
Shuriken 
Hellblade 

Glare 
Ballet 
Siren 
Ripfire 
Ironclad (deceased body, taken over by Maxis) 

Maxis 


Plot: Final Issue! An Aladdin strikforce, and some Ultras attack the Exiles, then Maxis attacks everyone, and the Exiles retreat underground. This story is continued in Ultraforce #12 

Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 


Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 



The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries, I think they should go on a separate page. 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
*EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 



Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 



Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2/2 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 


Tradesman 
*EXI 
*EX 2 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1 
*EX 3 

Hellblade 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 




Angel (Danielle) 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 3/2 
*EX 3 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 


Catapult 
*EX 4 

Prime 
*EX 4 

Prototype 
*EX 4 

Topaz 
*EX 4 

Lament 
*EX 4 

Ghoul 
*EX 4 

Detective Lanois 
*EX 4 

Cromwell 
*EX 4 

Felicia Campbell 
*EX 4 

Harvest 
*EX 5 


Sixx 
*EX 5/2 


Moloch 
*EX6 

Cayman 
*EX 7 
*EX 8-BTS 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 


King, Elizabeth 
*EX 8 


Gorask 1223 
*EX 8 

Karsol 
*EX 8 

Maxis 
*EX 8 
*EX 11 


Rocket 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Blast 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Benway, Doctor 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Discord, Doctor 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Velvet Fist 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Buck Lonestar 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Glare 
*EX 11 

Ballet 
*EX 11 

Siren 
*EX 11 

Ripfire 
*EX 11 

Ironclad (deceased body, taken over by Maxis) 
*EX 11

			*	*	*
Posted: 28 Sep 2004 09:44 am    Post subject: Ultraforce 12
By Dhall

Ultraforce 12 

Marvel: 
Black Knight 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 

Malibu: 
Prime 
Topaz 
Prototype 

Cayman 
Amber Hunt 
Hellblade 
Strike 
Shuriken 

T-Rex 
Siren 
Cromwell 
Iron Clad (alive again) 
Ripfire 
Maxis 

Plot: The Story continues from Exiles 11, Ultraforce shows up, and teams up with the Exiles to fight Maxis. They do this, by dropping a building on it. Just then a fleet of space ships show up. Story continued in Ultraverse Unlimited #2. 


Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 


Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 


Black Knight 
*ULTRAF 12 

The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries, I think they should go on a separate page. 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
*EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 



Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 



Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2/2 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 


Tradesman 
*EXI 
*EX 2 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1 
*EX 3 

Hellblade 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 




Angel (Danielle) 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 3/2 
*EX 3 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 


Catapult 
*EX 4 

Prime 
*EX 4 
*ULTRAF 12 


Prototype 
*EX 4 
*ULTRAF 12 

Topaz 
*EX 4 
*ULTRAF 12 


Lament 
*EX 4 

Ghoul 
*EX 4 

Detective Lanois 
*EX 4 

Cromwell 
*EX 4 
*ULTRAF 12 


Felicia Campbell 
*EX 4 

Harvest 
*EX 5 


Sixx 
*EX 5/2 


Moloch 
*EX6 

Cayman 
*EX 7 
*EX 8-BTS 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 


King, Elizabeth 
*EX 8 


Gorask 1223 
*EX 8 

Karsol 
*EX 8 

Maxis 
*EX 8 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 


Rocket 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Blast 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Benway, Doctor 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Discord, Doctor 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Velvet Fist 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Buck Lonestar 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Glare 
*EX 11 

Ballet 
*EX 11 

Siren 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 


Ripfire 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 


Ironclad 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 

T-Rex 
*ULTRAF 12

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 09:58 am    Post subject: Ultraverse Unlimited 2
By Dhall

Ultraverse Unlimited 2 
Sept 96 
Finale! 


Marvel: 
Black Knight 
Reaper 
Siena Blaze 


Malibu: 
Strike 
Shuriken 
Amber Hunt 
Helblade 
Cayman 

Prime 
Topaz 
Prototype 

Iron Clad 
Ripfire 
Siren 

Nyteflyt 
Aerie 
Khamuui 
Fleet 
Bemm 
Kwill 
Foxeye 
Stump 
Gormada 
Aquan 
Shr Drath 

Maxis 

Plot: Continued from Ultraforce 12: The Exiles and Ultraforce team up to fight some very generic aliens. They split up and have individual battles, then get back together. The leader of the aliens comes down, makes peace, convinces Maxis that he is the last of his planet, that he should be good. Maxis uses his powers to send Black Knight, Reaper and Siena Blaze back to Earth-616. Aladdin helicopters show up to attack everyone else. The End. 

Siena Blaze 
UX@ 17/2 
UX 301 
NW 45 
NW 46 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


Reaper II 
NM 86 
NM 87 
NM 100 
XFOR 1 
C 1 
C 2 
XF 77 
XF 78 
X 14 
XF 85 
X 15 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


Black Knight 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


The Malibu characters presumably have chronologies, but for our purposes, they are new entries, I think they should go on a separate page. 

Strike (Brandon Tark) 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
*EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 



Shuriken 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 



Amber Hunt 
*EXI 
*EX 1 
* EXVX 0 
*EX 2/2 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


Tradesman 
*EXI 
*EX 2 

Quine (Jerald Dragoon) 
*EX 1 
*EX 3 

Hellblade 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 2 
*EX 3 
*EX 4 
*EX 5 
*EX 5/2 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 
*EX 8 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 




Angel (Danielle) 
*EX3/2-FB 
*EX 3/2 
*EX 3 
*EX 6 
*EX 7 


Catapult 
*EX 4 

Prime 
*EX 4 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


Prototype 
*EX 4 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Topaz 
*EX 4 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


Lament 
*EX 4 

Ghoul 
*EX 4 

Detective Lanois 
*EX 4 

Cromwell 
*EX 4 
*ULTRAF 12 


Felicia Campbell 
*EX 4 

Harvest 
*EX 5 


Sixx 
*EX 5/2 


Moloch 
*EX6 

Cayman 
*EX 7 
*EX 8-BTS 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


King, Elizabeth 
*EX 8 


Gorask 1223 
*EX 8 

Karsol 
*EX 8 

Maxis 
*EX 8 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


Rocket 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Blast 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Benway, Doctor 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Discord, Doctor 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Velvet Fist 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Buck Lonestar 
*EX 9 
*EX 10 

Glare 
*EX 11 

Ballet 
*EX 11 

Siren 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


Ripfire 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


Ironclad 
*EX 11 
*ULTRAF 12 
*ULTRAUNL 2 


T-Rex 
*ULTRAF 12 


Nyteflyt 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Aerie 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Khamuui 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Fleet 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Bemm 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Kwill 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Foxeye 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Stump 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Gormada 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Aquan 
*ULTRAUNL 2 

Shr Drath 
*ULTRAUNL 2

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 01:16 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

FRom my one reading of these books a long time ago, I thought the villain from Exiles #1-3 was spelled "Qune". I remember laughing at the stupid spelling. 

Also, as someone else pointed out, there was a previous Malibu "Exiles" series -- and the cover and indicia list this book as "the *All-New* Exiles" vol.1. Plus that pesky Marvel Exiles vol.1 series. There's got to be a good way to avoid confusion between them all ... any chance of officially renaming this series as ANE in the Key and MCP? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 06:23 pm    
By Dhall

I belive it is spelled both ways. 

I would love to change the key to ANE, to avoid confusion with Marvel's Exiles.....

			*	*	*

Thread 101

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 08:25 pm    Post subject: Night Man VS. Wolverine 0, Night Man/Gambit 1-3
By Dhall

My placement of these is between W2 93 and 94......If that can't work, let me know.....Also if Marvel has ever produced work more pointless then these four issues....on Second thought I don't want to know that. 


Dave H 


The Night Man Vs. Wolverine 0 

August 1995 


Marvel: 
Wolverine 
Arcade 

Mailbu: 
Night Man 


Plot: The Night Man comes to Marvel Earth and fights Wolverine in Murderworld. 

Note: the first page has some flashbacks to previous Night Man apps., While it means nothing to me, this issue takes place after the Godwheel Mini-Series, The Night Man #22, and Night Man Infinity. 

Wolverine has bone claws. Story takes place in one evening, with the usual full moon. 


The Night Man/Gambit 1 

March 1996 

Marvel: 
Gambit 
Candra 

Malibu: 
Night Man 
Rhiannon 
Night Man Doppelganger 
Gale 
Mr. Domingo 

Plot: Candra contacts Remy at the mansion, while Night Man stands outside. (Night Man is apparently looking for Wolverine, so this is after Night Man Vs. Wolverine 0, possibly not that long after.) Rhiannon shows up to look for Night Man. Meanwhile the doppelganger shows up in Candras shower. (yes, really!) 

The Night Man/Gambit 2 
April 1996 

Marvel: 
Gambit 


Malibu: 
Rhiannon 
Night Man 
Night Man Doppelganger 
Gale 
Mr. Domingo 


Plot: At the mansion, the other Night Man shows up, and fights Gambit. Rhiannon ties both of them and Gambit up. (Yes, really!) Candra shows up at the last minute. 


The Night Man/Gambit 3 

Marvel: 
Gambit 
Candra 

Malibu: 
Night Man 
Night Man Doppelganger 
Rhiannon 
Gale 
Mr. Domingo 


Plot: Everyone breaks free, Candra tries to kill Rhiannon by throwing her own knife at her, one of the Night Men dies stopping it. Rhiannon goes home, taking the other Night Man with her. 



Note: This story is some time after Night Man Vol.2 1-4 

The whole 3 part series takes place in one night. Probably not long after the Night Man vs. Wolverine 0 issue. 


Wolverine 
W/G 1 
W/G 2 
W/G 3 
W/G 4 
H2 434 
UX 325 
W2 93 
*NMVW 0 
W2 94 
W2 95 
W2 96 

Arcade 
W/G 4-FB 
W/G 1-BTS 
W/G 2 
W/G 3 
W/G 4 
*NMVW 0 
XFOR&C '95/2 

Gambit 

X 45 
UX 326 
XU 8 
*NMG 1 
*NMG 2 
*NMG 3 
EXVX 0 
X 46 
X 47 


Candra 
R 1 
R 2 
R 3 
R 4 
*NMG 1 
*NMG 2 
*NMG 3 
W2 94-BTS 
X 60 
X 61 

Malibu: 

Night Man 
*NMVW 0 
*NMG 1 
*NMG 2 
*NMG 3 

Rhiannon 
*NMG 1 
*NMG 2 
*NMG 3 

Night Man Doppelganger 
*NMG 1 
*NMG 2 
*NMG 3 

Domingo, Mr. 
*NMG 1 
*NMG 2 
*NMG 3

			*	*	*

Thread 102

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 10:14 pm    Post subject: Phoenix Resurrection
By Jim Smith

General Notes: I wasn't reading X-Men or Generation X in late 1995, so it's difficult for me to place this story in continuity. In general there's little indication of where this story occurs, except after the events of Night Man vs. Wolverine #0 and Exiles vs. X-Men #0, which the X-Men refer to repeatedly. The X-Men (Banshee, Beast, Bishop, Jubilee, Rogue, Storm, Wolverine) are all wearing their standard costumes from 1995 and Gateway seems to be a resident at Generation X's headquarters in Massachusetts. Since Ben Reilly is Spider-Man and Thor is in his Thor #475 costume, we can place the crossover after Sensational Spider-Man #0 but before Thor changes costumes in the "Worldengine" storyline from Thor #491-494. That has to put the story between Beast's appearance in Spider-Man Team-Up #1 (Peter Parker is still Spider-Man) and Age of Innocence (Thor has by now changed his costume to the shirtless post-Crossing look). Extrapolating from that I've very tentatively placed the story for all the Marvel characters. I'm obviously out of my depth here, so let me know if I'm overlooking anything. 

Phoenix Resurrection #0 largely consists of reprints of the seven "Red Shift" preludes that appeared in the November '95 Ultraverse titles (as well as a new epilogue), and since a number of Marvel characters appear in these stories I went ahead and analyzed them as well. 

I don't own Phoenix Resurrection: Aftermath, so I couldn't analyze that comic. I understand it's set entirely in an alternate future, and judging from Foxfire #1 I doubt any Marvel characters make actual appearances. But I don't have the comic and can't say for sure. 

*** 

PRIME vol. 2 #2, story 2 (Cover date: November 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton, pencilled by John Royle 

Synopsis: Prime enjoys the adulation of his fans in Washington D.C. until he notices Gateway in the crowd. When Prime tries to investigate, he's briefly transported into the Marvel Universe, then back. He discovers a drawing of a phoenix in the dirt where Gateway had been sitting. 

Marvel characters: 
Gateway 

Ultraverse characters: 
Prime 

*** 

NIGHT MAN vol. 2 #2, story 2 (Cover date: November 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton, pencilled by John Royle 

Synopsis: Night Man walks home on a rainy night, pondering his newfound abilities connected to Celtic magic. A puddle at his feet becomes a gateway to the Marvel Universe, where he sees Daimon Hellstrom and an unnamed woman with pale white skin. (I'm assuming this is Jaine Cutter, seen with Hellstrom in Thunderbolts 2000, but I know nothing about Hellstrom and can't say for sure.) Hellstrom determines that Night Man is in another universe, and warns him that the Phoenix will be coming to his world. 

Marvel characters: 
Cutter, Jaine (?) 
Hellstorm/Daimon Hellstrom 

Ultraverse characters: 
Night Man 

*** 

SIREN #2, story 2 (Cover date: November 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton, pencilled by Paul Pelletier 

Synopsis: Squadron Supreme's Whizzer studies the energy readings of the multiverse at Project Pegasus, discovering dimensional breaches between the Ultraverse and the Marvel Universe. Seeking independent confirmation of his concerns, Whizzer unsuccessfully tries to contact the Avengers and Fantastic Four before reaching Beast at the X-Mansion. The two compare notes and Whizzer transmits his data to Beast. 

Marvel characters: 
Beast/Henry P. "Hank" McCoy 
Whizzer II/Stanley Stewart 

Ultraverse characters: 
None. 

Notes: Beast tells the Whizzer that he and some of the other X-Men have been to the Ultraverse recently. I assume he's talking about Exiles vs. X-Men #0. 

*** 

MANTRA vol. 2 #2, story 2 (Cover date: November 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton, pencilled by Chuck Wojtkiewicz 

Synopsis: Gateway appears in the Ultraverse again to give the new Mantra an omen similar to the one he gave Prime. 

Marvel characters: 
Gateway 

Ultraverse characters: 
Mantra 

*** 

EX 2/2 - (All-New) EXILES vol. 2 #2, story 2 (Cover date: November 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton, pencilled by Randy Green 

Synopsis: Amber Hunt of the Exiles recalls how she was possessed by The Entity in Break-Thru #1-2. The remnants of her connection to Entity tell her about the impending arrival of the Phoenix. 

Marvel characters: 
None. 

Ultraverse characters: 
Hunt, Amber 

*** 

RUNE vol. 2 #2, story 2 (Cover date: November 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton, pencilled by B. Murray 

Synopsis: Rune is in the middle of hunting down a serial killer when both of them are transported to the Marvel Universe, just outside the X-Mansion. Rune sees Storm and Beast inside the building and senses Wolverine skulking through the grounds before he's whisked back to the Ultraverse, narrowly avoiding a confrontation. 

Appearances: 
Beast/Henry P. "Hank" McCoy 
Storm/Ororo Munroe 
Wolverine/Logan/James Howlett 

Ultraverse characters: 
Rune 

Notes: Wolverine's running around in full feral mode, stark naked, and with the bone claws. Storm's still in her white costume. 

*** 

UF2 2/2 - ULTRAFORCE vol. 2 #2, story 2 (Cover date: November 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton, pencilled by Rob Haynes 

Synopsis: Ultraforce confronts a villain named Meat Rack. As Prototype and Topaz attack, Meat Rack is hurled into the Marvel Universe. Spider-Man (Ben Reilly) is handling an unidentified villain (I believe this is Armada from Sensational Spider-Man #0) when his spider-senses detect the dimensional whirpool. Thor appears (for no apparent reason) in his sleeveless yellow-squares costume from circa Thor #475-490. Meat Rack returns to the Ultraverse as quickly as he left, having crashed through a newsstand and bringing several copies of the Daily Bugle with him. Black Knight instantly recognizes the paper and its origins. 

Appearances: 
Armada II 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 
Spider-Man II/Ben Reilly 
Thor/Donald Blake/Sigurd Jarlson/Jake Olson 

Ultraverse characters: 
Ghoul 
Meat Rack/Oleg Kupov 
Prime 
Prototype 
Topaz 

Notes: For the purposes of Black Knight's chronology, I assume this story occurs after the "Wave of Mutilation" arc in Ultraforce vol. 2 #1-3, but I haven't read that story yet. 

*** 

PR:G - PHOENIX RESURRECTION: GENESIS #1 (December 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton & Dan Abnett, pencilled by Darrick Robertson, Mark Pacella, Greg Luzniak, & Rob Haynes 

Synopsis: In the Ultraverse, the alien mothership which crashed in what is now the Bermuda Triangle millions of years ago and caused the development of superhumans, has been awakened by the "Black September" event and sent probes to the Marvel Universe. One probe detects the Phoenix Force and returns to the mothership, which determines that this cosmic energy would be sufficient to repower the ship to reunite with the portion of the ship near the sun.. 

On Marvel-Earth, Banshee and Jubilee summon the X-Men (Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, Bishop, and Beast) to the Massachusetts Academy to investigate Gateway's strange behavior in the terrarium. They discover Gateway surrounded by aboriginal drawings of themselves, the Ultraverse heroes, and the Phoenix. Gateway teleports the X-Men to the Ultraverse. At Project Pegasus, the Squadron Supreme continue to study the dimensional anomalies. 

The X-Men arrive in the Ultraverse's Washington D.C., which Wolverine recognizes from his encounter with Night Man. (The footnote cites Mutants vs. Ultras #1, but this appears to simply reprint previous X-Men/Ultraverse crossovers.) They witness a the solar portion of the mothership exchange energies with the Bermudan wreckage, and create an interpsatial rift to the Marvel Universe in order to bring the Phoenix Force to the Ultraverse. The ship attacks the Phoenix, draining its energies for its own purposes, but the Phoenix retaliates, breaking free. Phoenix falls towards Earth, searching for a host so that it can heal, and chooses Prime. By the time Ultraforce is called in, the mothership has reasserted its control of the Phoenix energies, painfully draining the Phoenix until it vacates Prime and moves on to Amber Hunt. 

Appearances: 
Banshee/Sean Cassidy 
Beast/Henry P. "Hank" McCoy 
Bishop/Lucas Bishop 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 
Doctor Spectrum/Joseph Ledger 
Gateway 
Hyperion 
Jubilee/Jubilation Lee 
Juggernaut/Cain Marko 
Power Princess/Zarda 
Rogue 
Storm/Ororo Munroe 
Whizzer/Stanley Stewart 
Wolverine/Logan/James Howlett 

Ultraverse characters: 
Alternate 
Autumn, Alex 
Book 
Cromwell 
Death Dance 
Foxfire/Rose Autumn 
Gate 
Ghoul 
Gun Nut 
Hunt, Amber 
Mantra 
Meathook 
NME 
Night Man 
Prime 
Prototype 
Rex Mundi 
Topaz 

*** 

PR:R - PHOENIX RESURRECTION: REVELATIONS #1 (Cover Date: December 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton & Dan Abnett, pencilled by Kevin West, John Royle, Randy Green, and Rick Leonardi 

Synopsis: Ultraforce and the X-Men track Phoenix to its new host, Amber Hunt, and watch the Solution, Exiles, and Rex Mundi's agents battle for control of her. As they battle, Hunt discovers that her prior possession by Entity allows the mothership to control her and the Phoenix Force, using her to extract information about the whereabouts of Rex Mundi. The X-Men and ultras fight back, and in the fray the Autumns' apartment is destroyed. In her outrage, Rose Autumn manifests super powers and defeats Hunt. Drained by the effort, Rose collapses; her father (now revealed to be a cyborg) and another mysterious man take her to some alternate future, seen in Phoenix Resurrection: Aftermath #1. 

The mothership removes the Phoenix Force from Hunt, sending it to cause the catclysms necessary to pull the Earth into the sun, reunited the ship's fragments. The heroes disable the ship, freeing the Phoenix to destroy it. Realizing that the ship's destruction could doom the Earth, the X-Men and ultras create a portal into deep space and push the Phoenix into it. The Phoenix apparently arrives in the Ultraverse's distant past, and creates an explosion that causes the mothership to crash on Earth in the first place. Gateway teleports to the Ultraverse again to bring the X-Men home. 

Appearances: 
Banshee/Sean Cassidy 
Beast/Henry P. "Hank" McCoy 
Bishop/Lucas Bishop 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 
Blaze, Siena 
Gateway 
Jubilee/Jubilation Lee 
Juggernaut/Cain Marko 
Reaper II 
Rogue 
Storm/Ororo Munroe 
Wolverine/Logan/James Howlett 

Ultraverse characters: 
Autumn, Alex 
Book 
Cromwell 
Death Dance 
Dropkick 
Foxfire/Rose Autumn 
Gate 
Ghoul 
Gun Nut 
Hunt, Amber 
Mantra 
Meathook 
Night Man 
Outrage 
Prime 
Prototype 
Rex Mundi 
Shadowmage 
Shuriken 
Strike 
Tech 
Topaz 

*** 

PR 0 - PHOENIX RESURRECTION #0 (Cover date: March 1996) 

Epilogue written by Ian Edginton & Dan Abnett, pencilled by Ropger Stotz 

Synopsis: Back at the Massachusetts Academy's terrarium, Jubilee recalls her excursion to the Ultraverse. 

Appearances: 
Gateway 
Jubilee 


Updated chronologies: 

ARMADA II/ 
SENSM 0 
ASM 408 
*** UF2 2/2 
ASM 413-FB 
ASM 413 

BANSHEE/SEAN CASSIDY 
[...] 
UX 325 
W2 94 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R
GENX '95 
GENX 10 
GENX 11 
GENX:OV-FB 
X 49 
[...] 

BEAST/HENRY P. "HANK" MCCOY 
[...] 
EXVX 0 
X&CD 1 
XU 9 
XCAL 93-BTS 
SMTU 1 
*** SIREN 2/2 
*** RUNE 2/2 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
AOI 
UX 328 
SABRE:RZ 
XFOR 51 
X 48 
X 49 
XU 10 
UX 330 
BROOD 1 
BROOD 2 
X 50 
[...] 

BISHOP/LUCAS BISHOP 
[...] 
UX '95 
X 46 
X 47 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
UX 328 
XFOR 51 
X 48 
X 49 
BROOD 1 
BROOD 2 
X 50 
[...] 

BLACK KNIGHT V/DANE WHITMAN 
[...] 
A 380 
*** UF2 2/2 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
EX 4 
[...] 

BLAZE, SIENA 
[...] 
NW 46 
*** PR:R 

CUTTER, JAINE 
[...] 
*** NIGHTMAN2 2/2 
TB '00 

DOCTOR SPECTRUM/JOSEPH LEDGER 
[...] 
Q 60 
*** PR:G 
A3 5 
[...] 

GATEWAY 
[...] 
EXVX 0 
*** PRIME2 2/2 
*** MANTRA2 2/2 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
*** PR 0 
X 49 
X 50 
[...] 

HELLSTORM/DAIMON HELLSTROM 
[...] 
H:PL 21 
DRUID 1 
*** NIGHTMAN2 2/2 
W2 113 
[...] 

HYPERION 
[...] 
Q 60 
*** PR:G 
A3 5 
[...] 

JUBILEE/JUBILATION LEE 
[...] 
UX 325 
GENX 7 
W2 94 
GENX 8 
GENX 9 
UX '95 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
*** PR 0 
GENX '95 
GENX 10 
GENX 11 
GENX:OV-FB 
GENX:OV 
UX 331 
[...] 

JUGGERNAUT/CAIN MARKO 
[...] 
W2 93 
EXI 
EX 1 
EXVX 0 
EX 2 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
EX 3 
EX 4 
EX 5 
UX 333 
[...] 

POWER PRINCESS/ZARDA 
[...] 
Q 60 
*** PR:G 
A3 5 
[...] 

REAPER II 
[...] 
XF 85 
X 15 
*** PR:R 

ROGUE 
[...] 
EXVX 0 
XM 11 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
X 52 
[...] 

SPIDER-MAN II/BEN REILLY 
[...] 
ASM 408 
S-M 65 
*** UF2 2/2 
V:ACS 1 
[...] 

STORM/ORORO MUNROE 
[...] 
EXVX 0 
W2 96 
X&CD 1 
X&CD 2 
UX '95 
*** RUNE2 2/2 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
XFOR 48 
XFOR 51 
X 48 
C2 29 
BROOD 1 
BROOD 2 
X 50 
[...] 

THOR/DONALD BLAKE/SIGURD JARLSON II/JAKE OLSEN 
[...] 
T 490 
*** UF2 2/2 
T 491 
[...] 

WHIZZER II/STANLEY STEWART 
[...] 
Q 60 
*** SIREN 2/2 
*** PR:G 
A3 5 
[...] 

WOLVERINE/LOGAN/JAMES HOWLETT 
[...] 
W2 94 
W2 95 
W2 96 
X&CD 1 
X&CD 2 
XU 9 
UX '95 
XU 9 
UX '95 
*** RUNE2 2/2 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
UX 329 
[...]

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 08:50 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

The only place that Rogue can possibly appear in this time period is between X #45 and UX #326 -- and even THAT'S a stretch. She was technically off the team the entire time that the Juggernaut was in the Ultraverse -- meaning she really can't appear AT ALL without making something up -- but there's a line in XU #11 that supports the notion that she returned to the mansion briefly right after confronting Gambit in X #45. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 02:35 pm    
By Jim Smith

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
The only place that Rogue can possibly appear in this time period is between X #45 and UX #326 -- and even THAT'S a stretch. She was technically off the team the entire time that the Juggernaut was in the Ultraverse -- meaning she really can't appear AT ALL without making something up -- but there's a line in XU #11 that supports the notion that she returned to the mansion briefly right after confronting Gambit in X #45. 
<<<


Nuts. I was starting to wonder about Rogue's absence leading up to Onslaught. I knew this was too easy. 

Thing is, though, Rogue is listed as appearing in EXVX 0, and Beast's chronology puts that after UX 326. So either EXVX 0 explains Rogue's presence somehow (and that explanation can be used for this story), or it's not placed properly. 

I have a feeling this is going to open up a whole can of worms, because for the story to occur before UX 326 and after Ben Reilly becomes Spider-Man, EXVX 0, SMTU 1, and who knows what-all would need to be moved around. I'm starting to see why nobody volunteered to analyze this before.

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 09:56 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

I agree with Jeph's placement of EXVX 0 right after X 45. That's the best spot, although Rogue should not be with the team. Her presence in EXVX 0 is less disruptive of continuity than the alternatives, and we can probably explain her presence without much difficulty. Jeph, what's that line in XU 11?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 12:56 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

I'm at work, so I can't look it up directly, but it's something about how she hasn't thought about the X-Men "since she flew out the doors of the mansion" some time ago. 

Since she was clearly thinking about Gambit and the X-Men after leaving the mansion the first time (from UX #322 to X #45) -- it implies that she made a quick return trip to the mansion, right after her blowout with Gambit in X #45. I theorize that she ran in to pick up some clothes and personal items, and was swept up in the Exiles nonsense in EXVX #0 and PR -- THEN she left in her huff. 

(This would place EXVX #0 and the PR issues very very close together, though -- the same day or the following day. Which I don't have a problem with.) 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 01:15 pm    
By Jim Smith

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
(This would place EXVX #0 and the PR issues very very close together, though -- the same day or the following day. Which I don't have a problem with.) 
<<<


PR would have to be at least 24 hours later, to give Gateway time to go carousing around the Ultraverse and acting strangely, which is why Banshee asks the X-Men to stop by in the first place. 

Otherwise, it makes sense to me--Rogue's dropping by to pack her things, she shares the team's concerns for Gateway, and doesn't count on Gateway tossing them into another universe. 

While I'm posting about Phoenix Resurrection, I should point out something that occurred to me. Should the Phoenix Force's appearances in PR:G and PR:R be attributed to Phoenix II? When I did the initial analysis I never thought to treat the entity as a character, but technically this is the same being that died on the moon in UX 137.

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 01:23 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Personally, I'd list it under PHOENIX FORCE -- and have that listing become PHOENIX II during the time it spent in human form. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 08:46 pm    
By Dhall

Just to confirm: There are no Marvel characters in The Phoenix Resurrection Aftermath 1, except for a futuristic mechanized version of the Black Knight (though he looks like a trnsformer or something.) 


Placemenmt for the X-Characters will have to be after Exiles Vs. X-Men 0, and before anything else to accomodate Rogue. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 09:45 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Quote: 
>>>
PR would have to be at least 24 hours later, to give Gateway time to go carousing around the Ultraverse and acting strangely, which is why Banshee asks the X-Men to stop by in the first place.  
<<<


Indeed. FWIW, I have placed PR the day after EXVX 0.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 103

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 12:35 am    Post subject: Ultraforce: Countdown to Black September
By Jim Smith

More Ultraverse to suffer through, but at least I get to look at some nice George Perez art in a few of these. 

"Countdown to Black September" is Malibu's five-part story (Avengers/Ultraforce makes six, but Marvel published that one) introducing the Black Knight to the Ultraverse while wrapping up Loki's quest for the Infinity Gems. The whole thing runs through Ultraforce vol. 1 #8-10, Ultraforce/Avengers Prelude #1, Avengers/Ultraforce, and Ultraforce/Avengers. In that last installment the Ultraverse is destroyed and recreated with subtle changes, a la Zero Hour, leading into Malibu's September 1995 relaunch. 

From the perspective of the Marvel characters, Ultraforce vol. 1 #8-9 occur between A 375 (Dane and Sersi leave the MU) and A 380 (which depicts Dane's attempt to contact the MU, also seen in Ultraforce vol. 1 #10). That puts the Ultraforce/Avengers books somewhere after the lead story in A 379-382. When Vision sees Wonder Man's corpse (or a reasonable facsimile) in Avengers/Ultraforce, he expresses genuine emotion, suggesting this occurs after V 4. Captain America appears in good health, putting it before the "Taking AIM" story in A 385-388 where his sickness makes it too difficult to fight. A 384 shows the Black Widow arranging a rendezvous that takes place in A 385 a day later, so I believe the story is best placed after A 383 and V 4 but before A 384. 

Since this story takes place after High Evolutionary's appearances in A 380-382, it must also occur after T 482. Yet Thor is wearing the classic costume instead of he changed to in T 475. I'm left to chalk this up to a continuity gaffe, or argue that Sonuvodin was just feeling a tad nostalgic that day. From the looks of things Loki has been operating out of Vadhalla, the former home of the Ultraverse's gods, since the events of Malibu's Godhweel miniseries. I'm guessing he hasn't been to the Marvel Universe at any point between Godwheel and Ultraforce/Avengers, since a) he's been devoting all his energy to locating the six Infinity Gems and b) if any of his MU appearances were occuring during this period, he'd be using the gems, and he isn't. So I'm assuming this storyline takes place after Loki's appearances in TS 19-21. As it happens, his next appearance would be A 400, some time later, which would give him time to sufficiently recover from the whupping he takes here. 

*** 

UF 8 - ULTRAFORCE vol. 1 #8 (Cover date: May 1995) 
Written by Hank Kanalz & Marv Wolfman, pencilled by George Perez 

Synopsis: "Countdown to Black September," part 1 of 5. The Black Knight appears emerges from a dimensional rift in Miami, having been separated from Sersi. Prime and Prototype investigate and bring Dane back to their headquarters. Siren joins the team and explains some angelic energy beings are on the loose in the city. Topaz, Ghoul, and Contrary fly in to help, but one of the beings begins to transform Prime into its kind. Meanwhile, in Africa, Sersi also arrives in the Ultraverse. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 
Sersi 

Ultraverse characters: 
Contrary 
Ghoul 
Prime 
Prototype 
Siren 
Topaz 

Flashback: Dane recalls events of Avengers #375, but no new information is revealed. 

*** 

UF 9 - ULTRAFORCE vol. 1 #9 (Cover date: June 1995) 
Written by Hank Kanalz & Marv Wolfman, pencilled by J. Royle & C. Alexander 

Synopsis: "Countdown to Black September," part 2 of 5. Ultraforce and the Black Knight defeat and contain the angelic beings. Dane turns down an offer to join Ultraforce to look for Sersi in New York. Meanwhile, Sersi sees the events in Miami on TV and remembers he connection to Black Knight. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 
Sersi 

Ultraverse characters: 
Contrary 
Ghoul 
Prime 
Prototype 
Siren 
Topaz 

Flashback 1: Sersi recalls events of Avengers #375, no new information. 

Flashback 2: Sersi arrives from the dimensional rift in the Ultravers's Africa, and hears something summoning her. She flies to Chicago and discovers a seventh Infinity Gem, which instructs her to seek out the other six now that they've been brought to the Ultraverse in Rune/Silver Surfer. 

*** 

UF 10 - ULTRAFORCE vol. 1 #10 (Cover date: July 1995) 
Written by Hank Kanalz & Phil S. Crain, pencilled by John Royle & Joyce Chin 

Synopsis: "Countdown to Black September," part 3 of 5. Ultraforce has been evicted from its Miami headquarters and has relocated to Contrary's ship. The team heads for New York to assist Prototype with an frost giant, later revealed to be a construct of Loki's. Elsewhere, Loki watches the Ultraverse and revels in his acquisition of the six known Infinity Gems (in Night Man #22, Hardcase #23, Necromantra/Lord Pumpkin #4, Mantra #22, Night Man #23, and Curse of Rune #4). Sersi, struggles to prevent the seventh Infinity Gem from taking control of her so that she can find Black Knight. 

After defeating the frost giant, Black Knight discovers a medieval pub where Avengers Mansion is located in the Marvel Universe. Ultraforce cannot see this pub, and when the Knight enters an unidentifies sorceress explains the threat Loki poses with the Infinity Gems. Dane attempts to contact the Avengers through the sorceress's mystic pool (as seen in Avengers #380), but the connection is broken by Sersi's arrival. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 
Sersi 
Loki 
Marilla 
Luna Maximoff 

Ultraverse characters: 
Contrary 
Ghoul 
Prototype 
Siren 
Topaz 

*** 

UF/A PRELUDE - ULTRAFORCE/AVENGERS PRELUDE #1 (Cover date: July 1995) 
Written by Terry Kavanaugh, pencilled by John Statema 

Synopsis: "Countdown to Black September," part 4 of 5. After Prime and Hardcase return from events in the Power of Prime miniseries, The Black Knight and Ultraforce work to recover the Infinity Gems from Loki, while Sersi struggles to resist the seventh gem. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 
Sersi 
Loki 

Ultraverse characters: 
Contrary 
Ghoul 
Hardcase 
Prime 
Prototype 
Siren 
Topaz 

*** 

A/UF - AVENGERS/ULTRAFORCE #1 (Cover date: October 1995) 
Written by Glenn (ugh) Herdling, pencilled by Angel Medina & M.C. Wyman 

Synopsis: The Grandmaster travels to the Ultraverse searching for the Mind Gem and discovers Sersi under the thrall of the seventh gem, with a prposal to retrieve all the Infinity Gems from Loki. On her behalft Grandmaster challenges Loki to a game pitting Ultraforce against the Avengers. If the Avengers win, Loki must surrender the Infinity Gems; if Ultraforce does not lose, the Grandmaster must divulge the location of the seventh gem. Loki claims victory when the outcome of the game is indecisive enough that Grandmaster does not win and Loki does not lose. Sersi then uses the distraction to take Loki's gems, and the seventh gem leaves her to reunite with the other six to form Nemesis, the being from which the Infinity Gems were originally formed. Nemesis quickly obliterates both the Marvel Universe and the Ultraverse. 

Marvel Characters: 
Captain America 
Crystal 
Black Knight 
Black Widow 
Grandmaser 
Iron Man 
Loki 
Starfox 
Sersi 
Thor 
Vision 

Ultraverse characters: 
Contrary 
Ghoul 
Hardcase 
Prime 
Prototype 
Siren 
Topaz 

Notes: Wonder Man and several Ultraverse characters appear when Loki helps Ghoul assemble an army of undead zombies to attack the Vision, but I doubt this is the real Simon Williams. 

*** 

UF/A - ULTRAFORCE AVENGERS #1 (Cover date: Fall 1995) 
Written by Warren Ellis, pencilled by George Perez 

Synopsis: "Countdown to Black September," part 5 of 5. Continued from Avengers/Ultraforce. Nemesis begins creating a new "sketch" universe at the site of the Godwheel, one in which the Avengers' history incorporates elements of the Ultraverse. At the same time, the real Ultraforce and Avengers recover from her attack and coordinate with the "sketch" Avengers. As Nemesis continues to create, Avengers and Ultraforces from various realities converge to attack Nemesis. She quickly disposes of all but the original two teams, which create a diversion for the Black Knight to cleave the Infinity Gems from her body with an alternate-universe version of his ebony blade. Nemesis's destruction wipes out and recreates the Ultraverse, apparently with slight differences affecting Siren, the second Mantra, and Night Man. The Avengers and Ultraforce are each returned to their respective universes, save the Black Knight, and all parties have no memory of the crossover. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight 
Black Widow 
Captain America 
Crystal 
Giant-Man 
Grandmaser 
Iron Man 
Quicksilver 
Starfox 
Sersi 
Thor 
Vision 

Ultraverse characters: 
Contrary 
Ghoul 
Hardcase 
Mantra 
Night Man 
Prime 
Prototype 
Siren 
Topaz 

Note: If Nemesis is considered to be a Marvel character, I'm inclined to attribue the appearances of the seventh gem to her, since that's supposed to be the one that acts as the "mind" for the other six. The gem appears in UF 9-FB, UF 9, UF 10, UF/A PRELUDE. It combines with the other Infinity Gems to become Nemesis in A/UF and UF/A. 

The Loki battling the "sketch" Avengers says he knows the truth about their world, but I'm working on the assumption that this isn't the "real" Loki. Unlike other "merged continuity" storylines like Amalgam, the "sketch" Avengers are completely separate individuals who meet the heroes they're based on. It stands to reason then, that the real Loki is somewhere else during this comic, probably sneaking off to lick his wounds. 

*** 

BLACK KNIGHT V/DANE WHITMAN 
[...] 
A 375 
CA 425 
DD 327 
***UF 8 
***UF 9 
***UF 10 ~ A 380 
***UF/A PRELUDE 
***A/UF 
***UF/A 
***PR:G 
***PR:R 
EX 4 [Is this really a Black Knight appearance?] 
BK:E 
HFH 2 
[...] 

BLACK WIDOW 
[...] 
A 382 
TS 19 
FW 10/2 
A 382/3 
IM 315 
IM 316 
IM 317 
TS 20 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
A 384 
A 385 
[...] 

CAPTAIN AMERICA 
[...] 
A 382 
N 57 
N 58 
A 382/3 
TOS2 
M/HOL 1994/2 
FW 8 
FFOR 4 
FW 10/2 
FF 400/2 
CPU 1 
CA 435 
CA 436 
CA 437 
IM 314 
PPTSSSS 1 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
CA 438 
CA 439 
A 386 
[...] 

CRYSTAL 
[...] 
A 380 
A 381 
A 382 
N 58 
A 381/2 
A 383 
FW 10/2 
FF 400/2 
A 383 
V 2 
V 3 
V 4 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
A 384 
A 385 
[...] 


GIANT-MAN 
[...] 
A 375 
A 375/2 
DD 327 
Q 60 
TS 10 
A@ 23 
A@ 23/2 
CA 434 
A 378 
A 379/2 
A 380/2 
A 381/2 
TTA3 
FW 8 
CA 434 
CA 435 
CA 436 
CA 437 
IM 314 
CA 438 
TS 16 
A 383 
A 382/3 
V 1 
V 3 
V 4 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
A 384 
CA 440 
[...] 



GRANDMASTER/EN DWI GAST 
[...] 
Q 58 
*** A/UF 
CM4 5 
CM4 6-FB 
CM5 14-FB 
[...] 


IRON MAN 
[...] 
IM 313 
FW 9/2 
FW 9 
FW 10 
FW 10/2 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
FF 400/2 
CA 437 
IM 314 
[...] 

LOKI 
[...] 
T 484 
TS 19 
TS 20 
TS 21 
*** UF 10 
*** UF/A PRELUDE 
*** A/UF 
A 400 
[...] 

LUNA/LUNA MAXIMOFF 
[...] 
A 376 
A 380 ~ *** UF 10 
A 390 
[...] 

MARILLA 
[...] 
A 373 
A 380 ~ *** UF 10 
A 389 
A 390 
A:C 

QUICKSILVER 
[...] 
A 382 
N 58 
A 383 
FW 10/2 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
FF 400/2 
A 384 
A 385 
[...] 

SERSI 
[...] 
A 375 
*** UF 8 
*** UF 9 
*** UF 10 ~ A 380-BTS 
*** UF/A PRELUDE 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
BK:E 
HFH 5-FB 
HFH 4 
[...] 

STARFOX 
[...] 
Q 59 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
CM4 2-FB 
CM4 5 
[...] 

THOR 
[...] 
T 482 
T 484 
FW 10/2 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
FF 400/2 
T 485 
[...] 

VISION 
[...] 
A 380 
N 58 
A 383 
A 382/3 
V 1 
V 2 
V 3 
V 4 
FW 10/2 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
AUP 1 
[...]

			*	*	*

Thread 104

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 12:48 pm    Post subject: Call for Analysis
By ADMINISTRATOR

If you glance at the Closing the Gap page, you'll see we've made tremendous progress toward closing the second gap, for which I thank everyone involved. There are only a handful of books remaining, and I'd like to make a concentrated effort to completely close out that page, so I call your attention to the final remaining unanalyzed books from the second gap, and if you have any of these books, we need your help: 

Hulk/Venom 
Phoenix Resurrection 
Phoenix Resurrection: Aftermath 
Phoenix Resurrection: Genesis 
Phoenix Resurrection: Revelations 
Sentry 3 
Wolverine: Path of the Warlord 

And...I think that's it. For now, I'm holding off on specifically asking for Exiles (although you're welcome to post), even though it's on the gap page, because it's not truly a Gap #2 book. There are one or two more open books on the gap page, but I have analyses from David Hall that I haven't posted yet. 

Can anyone out there lend a hand? 


watching: a freckled executive secretary taking a message

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 01:14 pm    
By SeanCurtin

IIRC Phoenix Resurrection: Aftermath is set in a future timeline. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 03:16 pm    
By Jim Smith

I just picked up the Phoenix Resurrection comics at Wizard World Chicago last month (and man, is it hard to figure out where to look for Malibu comics at a con!), so I'd be happy to pitch in with those.

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 03:18 pm    
By michel

I can do the the Hulk/Venom one-shot, Sentry #3 and Wolverine : Path Of The Warlord, not right now but surely in two or three weeks. Are the other Sentry analyses anywhere on the board ?

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Sep 2004 04:37 pm    
By Dhall

I have some of these books, the Phoenix ones, the Exiles, and The Path of the Warlord. If no one else can look at them, I could in the next few weeks..... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 01:09 am    
By shandrakor

Incredible Hulk vs Venom is done and posted. It's the first of these that I've ever done, so obviously let me know if it meets your standards.

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 08:32 am    
By SKleefeld [DIRECTOR]

I thought we had addressed all the Sentry issues on the old message board.

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 06:23 pm    
By Dhall

By the way, 
Did I ever send you analysis of Night Man Vs. Wolverine 
or Night Man/Gambit 1-3? 

I'm assuming that you still need those too.... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 08:32 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

No Night Man. 


watching: dallas v. washington

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 11:15 pm    
By Dhall

Night Man is on the board now. Do you just need Logan: Path of the Warlord? 

I have it sitting on my desk right now....I won't be able to get to it tommorrow though. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 12:51 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

SKleefeld wrote: 
>>>
I thought we had addressed all the Sentry issues on the old message board. 
<<<


I found it, in Archive #7. Thanks. 


watching: buffy

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 12:56 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
Do you just need Logan: Path of the Warlord? 
<<<


Looks like that's the last book. 


watching: buffy

			*	*	*

Thread 105

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 01:08 am    Post subject: The Incredible Hulk vs. Venom
By shandrakor

H/V 

Published: April, 1994 

Written by: Peter David 
Pencils by: Jim Craig 

Apperances: 
Hulk (as Professor persona) 
Venom/Eddie Brock 
Ariel O'Hare (television reporter, also in X-Factor 72-73, Nov-Dec '91) 

Brief Synopsis: 
Throwaway villian "Dr. Bad Vibes" sends a letter to a San Francisco news station that he's going to cause an earthquake at noon. During the earthquake (which happens slightly late) Venom runs into Hulk. They fight for a while, then remember that they're both supposed to be good guys these days. They team up to track down Bad Vibes, find him, and it turns out that he's just a crazy guy with a button drawn on a cardboard box and that the earthquake was completely natural. 

References/Placement suggestions: 
Hulk is pretty much right in character for the general publication time. He's in Professor persona, so it must be post-H2 379. He's very confident, and generally pleased with himself, so I'd place it before FI and the death of Jim Wilson started angsting him out. My suggestion is between H2 412 and H2 413. In 412, they've just set a date for Marlo/Rick's wedding, so there's some breathing room to stick in extra stories between 412 and the wedding plot in 417-419. After 412, Hulk gets involved in the Troyjan War, and then into FI, so this seems to be the best place to stick a non-angsty Professor story that appears to occur around publication order. 

Venom, same deal. I don't know a huge amount about him, but from what I can dig up online, he was living in San Francisco, helping out homeless people and such during the general publication period. V:EW ended in April '94, and V:MACE started in May '94, so strict publication order would stick it between the two. I haven't read either one, but unless there were some major character changes right in that period that I'm not finding out about online, I see no reason why H/V can't fit right inbetween the two.

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 06:52 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Any temporal references in this comic? Clues about days, months, weather, time passed since other events, etc.?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 11:03 am    
By shandrakor

p1. 
Jumbled stack of San Francisco postcards. The only one we can read is from "Barney" to his Mom and Dad, addressed to Mrs. A Hargrave in Toronto. It states that "It's been two weeks, and the job's great!" We see later that Barney is the new guy at KLX-TV. (I can't find reference to a Barney Hargrave anywhere, so I've left him off character apperances for now) 

p2. 
City isometric view, background shaded blue (darkness) but scattered people visible on the street. Interior of KLX-TV building has both Barney and Ariel drinking coffee, and mail-boy making first run of the day. Dark at the start of the work day in SF indicates winterish timeframe, consistant with being the months leading up to Mondo/Rick's wedding in April. 

p3. 
pnl 7. Eddie Brock stands outside "BJ's TVs" It is now light outside, and he is watching Ariel perform the "12 noon update" 

p4. 
Several people shown outdoors. Eddie and a very "urban" character both in thick jackets. Girlfriend of urban character in catholic school uniform jacket. Woman in tee-shirt, but she's storming out of a building, likely too distraught to have grabbed something warmer. Skimming ahead, most characters wear jackets, most in long sleeves, almost all in pants (a few skirts.) Again, consistant with at least a winter chill. St. Joan's Girl's School appears to be a boarding school, so it's difficult to say for certain whether this occurs during the regular school year (Sept-June) 

p13. 
pnl. 1. "It has been an hour since [...] Dr. Bad Vibes rocked the city with an earthquake" 
pnl. 2. Weather is shown outside KLX-TV to be cloudy, but with patches of blue sky. 

p14. 
pnl. 4-6. Venom is shown trying to dig survivors out of the rubble, and then runs off to fight a "monster" that "came outta the sky." Clearly this has to take place while Venom is being reasonably sane and a "good" guy. 

p15. 
Hulk drawn as Professor persona, but spouting Savage Hulk dialogue. "Keep Runing Puny Humans [...] or else Hulk will Smash!" 

pp15-16. 
Hulk reverts to Professor-level dialogue. The "Hulk Smash business" is "Just for the rubes." Quite what he was hoping to accomplish by chasing people around in earthquake rubble, I'm not quite certain. Perhaps he was trying to herd them to safety? 

p23. 
Hulk finally gets around to explaining that he came there to help, just like Venom. "I'd heard you changed." "Yeah, well I heard you changed!" Clearly, both have been in good-guy mode long enough for the news to get around the superhero community at least. 

The plot wraps itself up with the nutjob and his cardboard box over the next hour or so.

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 09:47 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Thanks, shandrakor. My first inclination is to put this comic in late February, about a month before Rick's and Marlo's wedding. (I don't think Rick married Mondo, although that would have been...interesting.) 

You noted that the wedding occurred in April. Where is that reference? My initial placement of that event is on Saturday, March 27, not far off.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 11:07 pm    
By shandrakor

H2 412 
p4. 
SheHulk: "Have you set a date?" 
Marlo: "April 17, not real long...and yet, I gotta admit, sometimes time just seems to crawl around here"

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 07:02 am    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

April 17, eh? Okay, I think I can make this work, and it's even a Saturday! Thanks. 
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 09:10 am    
By shandrakor

No problem. 

Out of curiosity, that's April 17 of year 17? Maybe 18?

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 09:12 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Year 18. Four and a half years ago, Marvel time.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 09:05 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Or, Paul-time.  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 106

Posted: 29 Sep 2004 06:06 pm    Post subject: Ultraforce Infinity, #1-3 & Foxfire #1-2
By Jim Smith

UFI - ULTRAFORCE INFINITY (September 1995) 
Written by Ian Edginton, pencilled by John Royle 

Synopsis: Ultraforce investigates a cult which regards its Ultra leader, Pascal, as divine and all other Ultras as demons. The team discovers that Pascal has been dead for some time, murdered and secluded by his inner circle, who've been running the cult themselves. Ultraforce, which has always dedicated itself to proving that Ultras can protect humanity, considers changing its goals to protecting Ultras from humanity. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 

Ultraverse characters: 
Ghoul/Jonathan Martin 
Prime/Kevin Green 
Prototype/Bob Campbell 
Topaz 

Notes: An unrelated subplot deals with the "New World" Nemesis created at the Godwheel in Ultraforce/Avengers. I'm disregarding these characters, in particular since reality is constantly changing in the New World. In UF/A the New World's heroes are called Avengers, and here the same team is now called Ultraforce; Mantra was a member of the New World's Fantastic Four in UF/A, now she's an Ultraforce villain; Quicksilver is suddenly black, etc. I'm not even sure why this subplot appears in the issue, since it doesn't lead to anything I'm aware of. 

*** 

UF2 1 - ULTRAFORCE vol. 2 #1 (October 1995) 
Written by Warren Ellis, pencilled by Stephen Butler 

Synopsis: Ultraforce moves into its new headquarters provided by the government. They're introduced to their reluctant government liasion, Cromwell, and informed of an Ultra bombing buildings in New York. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 

Ultraverse characters: 
Bonehammer 
Campbell, Felicia 
Cromwell 
Ghoul/Jonathan Martin 
Lament/Sarah Walks Unseen 
Prime/Kevin Green 
Prototype/Bob Campbell 
Topaz 
Wreckage/Jack Prosper 

*** 

UF2 2 - ULTRAFORCE vol. 2 #2 (November 1995) 
Written by Warren Ellis, pencilled by Stephen Butler 

Synopsis: Ultraforce captures the bomber, but Lament informs the Black Knight that the bomber was only trying to stop a criminal cartel, which is the larger threat. Knight arranges to have the bomber remanded to Ultraforce's custody until he can sort things out. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 

Ultraverse characters: 
Bonehammer 
Campbell, Felicia 
Cromwell 
Ghoul/Jonathan Martin 
Lament/Sarah Walks Unseen 
Prime/Kevin Green 
Prototype/Bob Campbell 
Topaz 
Wreckage/Jack Prosper 

*** 

UF2 2/2, Chapter seven of the Phoenix Resurrection, takes place after UF2 3, and I covered it in my Phoenix Resurrection analysis. 

*** 

UF2 3 - ULTRAFORCE vol. 2 #3 (December 1995) 
Written by Warren Ellis, pencilled by Stephen Butler 

Synopsis: Jack Prosper, the bomber, explains his history with the Ultra monster named Bonehammer, currently associated with the criminal organization he'd been targeting in his attacks. Ultraforce decides to work with Prosper to capture Bonehammer, and then inducts him into the team as Wreckage. Lament also joins Ultraforce. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 

Ultraverse characters: 
Bonehammer 
Campbell, Felicia 
Cromwell 
Ghoul/Jonathan Martin 
Lament/Sarah Walks Unseen 
Prime/Kevin Green 
Prototype/Bob Campbell 
Topaz 
Wreckage/Jack Prosper 

*** 

FOXF 1 - FOXFIRE #1 (February 1996) 
Written by Ian Edginton & Dan Abnett, pencilled by Kevin West 

Synopsis: I'm not bothering with the bulk of this story, because the only Marvel appearance is the Black Knight appearing at the end with Ultraforce to question Foxfire, leading in to #2. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 

Ultraverse characters: 
Foxfire/Rose Autumn 
Ghoul/Jonathan Martin 
Mastodon/Tim Halloran 
Prime/Kevin Green 
Prototype/Bob Campbell 
Sludge 
Topaz 

*** 

FOXF 2 - FOXFIRE #2 (March 1996) 
Written by Ian Edginton & Dan Abnett, pencilled by Kevin West 

Synopsis: Ultraforce and Black Knight search for Slude and Mastodon in the sewers. 

Marvel characters: 
Black Knight V/Dane Whitman 

Ultraverse characters: 
Campbell, Felicia 
Cromwell 
Foxfire/Rose Autumn 
Ghoul/Jonathan Martin 
Mastodon/Tim Halloran 
Prime/Kevin Green 
Prototype/Bob Campbell 
Sludge 
Topaz 

*** 

Updated chronology: 

BLACK KNIGHT V/DANE WHITMAN 
[...] 
A 375 
CA 425 
DD 327 
*** UF 8 
*** UF 9 
*** UF 10 ~ A 380 
*** UF/A PRELUDE 
*** A/UF 
*** UF/A 
*** UFI 
*** UF2 1 
*** UF2 2 
*** UF2 3 
*** UF2 2/2 
*** PR:G 
*** PR:R 
*** FOXF 1 
*** FOXF 2 
EX 4 [Is this really a Black Knight appearance?] 
BK:E 
HFH 2 
[...] 

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it: There's no way for Dane to have appeared in CA 425 or DD 327 after he leaves the MU in A 375. Someone needs to look into this.

			*	*	*

Thread 107

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 08:16 am    Post subject: Erishkigel II
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Erishkigel II -- whoever that is -- doesn't have their name in bold. 

THIS MUST BE RECTIFIED IMMEDIATELY!!!  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 08:27 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

You've got me curious now... 

Ah, she's got an entry in the Unofficial Appendix. Apparently she's a minor Thor villain who was later revived as a recurring baddie for Quasar. Tried to take over the Multiverse once.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Thread 108

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 11:59 am    Post subject: Scott Washington, Hybrid, and Guardsman #6
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Scott Washington is the human that bonded with the four symbiotes to form Hybrid, as recently discussed in a thread on the MU board. When he was working at the Vault, his name was "Guardsman Number 6". 

Now, it's debatable whether that was his "code-name" or not, and what to list him under ... but the MCP has it down as "Washington, Scott (GuardIAN #6)", which isn't right. 

Also, his listings overlap one another. He bonds with the symbiotes for good, and becomes Hybrid II, in V:ACS #2/2 -- but we have his appearances in V: ACS #1/2 through 4/2 listed twice, in both Washington and Hybrid II's listings. 

And finally, there's no link from Scott to Hybrid II. 

Man, I'm full of bug reports today, aren't I? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 109

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 11:12 am    Post subject: Risque's real name
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Right now we've got Risque identified as "Gloria Dolores Mu-oz", the name she was identified by in X @2001. 

Trouble is, that was pretty clearly a typo -- in Risque's earlier appearances, her last name was always "Munoz", with a tilde over the N. 

I'm guessing that when the script was typed, it was typed "Munoz" with the tilde -- that tilde-N being a special character not always identified properly by older Word programs -- and when the script was e-mailed to the letterer, their version of Word didn't recognize the "tilde-N" code, and substituted it with some piece of gibberish like a dash. And that hiccup was what the letterer -- who of course has no idea what the character's name SHOULD be -- used to letter the book. 

I personally can't even figure out how to type the tilde-N on my work computer -- but yeah, anyway, her name should be "Munoz." 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 11:32 am    
By Ant-Man

HTML magic! 

&Ntilde; =  
&ntilde; =  

Whenever I have to type special characters into word, I put that character into an HTML document, then cut and paste...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 12:38 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Straying off topic... 

In Word, Ctrl-Shift-~, followed by the letter. 


watching: both sides

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 12:56 pm    
By Ant-Man

sure...if you want to do it the EASY way! 

_________________
-Brian Cook-

		*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2004 02:04 pm    
By Peter Fabricius

Administrator wrote: 
>>>
Straying off topic... 

In Word, Ctrl-Shift-~, followed by the letter. 
<<<

No with a Danish keyboard layout.  

Here it is AltGr ~, followed by the letter. 

AltGr is the right Alt key, it is used for several of the special characters 

An absolutely useless piece of info for you americans, but I had nothing better to do, before going to bed. 
_________________
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

			*	*	*

Thread 110

Posted: 03 Sep 2004 11:27 am    Post subject: NEKRA Correction
By Ant-Man

NEKRA is listed in the MCP as NEKRA/ADRIENNE HATROS 

Her real name is Nekra Sinclair 

She assumed the identity of Adrienne Hatros for a while after she killed the real Adrienne Hatros
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Sep 2004 01:22 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Not really a bug, but... 

Source, please?

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Sep 2004 02:16 pm    
By Ant-Man

She assumed Adrienne Hatros' identity in Spider-Woman #15 

I had put this over in the Marvel Universe forum, and then I moved it over here for some reason. I guess I should have left it there...sorry.
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Thread 111

Posted: 11 Sep 2004 04:20 pm    Post subject: Firestar First Appearance
By Dhall

Firestar's first app. in UX 193 should be bracketed. 

Dave H 


FIRESTAR/ANGELICA JONES Subscribe! 
FS 1 
FS 2 
UX 193 
FS 3 
FS 4

			*	*	*

Thread 112

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 12:57 pm    Post subject: Doctor Doom corrections
By Jopili

DOCTOR DOOM 
... 
ST 163-BTS 
ST 164-BTS > ST 164/2-BTS 
ST 165-BTS 
ST 166-BTS > ST 166/2-BTS 
... 

... because on Strange Tales #164 and #166 the stories of Doctor Strange / Nick Fury were inverted.

			*	*	*

Thread 113

Posted: 18 Sep 2004 04:19 pm    Post subject: "Journey Into Mystery Annual 1" or "Thor Annu
By Jopili

I've found in LOKI: 
JIM@ 1 and T@ 1 
Which is the correct one? 

And in the same list: 
T2 '00 
instead of 
T '00

			*	*	*

Thread 114

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 06:02 pm    Post subject: Sunpyre, not Sunspyre
By Dhall

Sunpyre/Leyu Yoshida 

not SUNSPYRE, as the MCP has her listed. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Thread 115

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 10:45 pm    Post subject: AOA Apocalypse
By Dhall

Hat to nitpick, because I am truly glad to see this page on the MCP, 
but twice in the AOA Apocalypse's listing there are two issues appearing on one line, with no break. 

Dave H 

APOCALYPSE 
XCHRON 1 
ASTONX 2-FB 
BLINK 1 
X:ALPHA ASTONX 1 
WX 1 
X-CAL 1 
XM 1 
ASTONX 2 
FX 2 
X-CAL 2 
FX 3 
ASTONX 3-BTS 
AMAZX 3 ASTONX 4 
AOA:C 
XM 4 
GAM&XT 4 
WX 4 
X:OMEGA

			*	*	*

Thread 116

Posted: 02 Sep 2004 10:27 pm    Post subject: Newby looking for help Identifying an Issue
By spottedlogic

Hi Diehards, 

I am sure I am one in a long line of newbies asking for help - - but here goes. 

In 1976 (I was 6) I was given a comic book and I am looking for some help identifying the issue 

It was an thick, oversized bicentennial issue that had the Silver Surfer and (I am shaky on this) - the fanatstic four. 

I am looking to pick one up but first I need to identify the issue. I tried searcing the internet but without much success. 

Thanks in advance. 

Oh, and since I am a newby here I probably violated some rules or etiquette - if so, I apologize in advance. 

SL

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 Sep 2004 11:05 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Apology accepted, spottedlogic, but I'm moving this to Chat. 

When you say "oversized," how oversized was it? 


watching: wishmaster

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Sep 2004 12:20 am    
By spottedlogic

It was very oversized (like a rand mcnally raod atlas) and the cover was glossy. 

Thanks again. 

SL

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Sep 2004 12:23 am    
By OnionMan

Could it be one of the Marvel Treasury Editions? 

http://www.comics.org/covers.lasso?SeriesID=2180 

Issue #9 has Silver Surfer on the Cover.

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Sep 2004 01:06 am
By spottedlogic

Thank you very much Onion Man 

I believe it was Marvel Treasury Edition #21. My year was off. 

Any good suggestions on where to find a copy? 

Thanks again. 

SL

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Sep 2004 01:26 am    
By OnionMan

Try these: 

http://www.comicspriceguide.com/p-issues.asp?t_ID=3054 

http://search.ebay.com/Marvel-Treasury-Edition_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8 

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=list&title=52042489130&snumber=1

			*	*	*

Thread 117

Posted: 06 Sep 2004 11:09 am    Post subject: 1993 Updates?
By Dhall

Russ, 
How are you doing on the 1993 gap? Will you have a new update soon? 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 11 Sep 2004 04:20 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

How about something this weekend? 


watching: michigan v. notre dame

			*	*	*

Posted: 12 Sep 2004 09:24 am    
By Dhall

I wouldn't complain...  

Thanks, 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 02:19 am    
By david

Now if only you'd do the remaining Wolverine issues from 1993-1994! 


			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 08:28 am    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Yes, let's pester the Administrator. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 02:02 pm    
By Dhall

Jeph, since this is an update thread, any chance you'll have a captain britian update for us soon? 

and david, please don't pester the admin...... 


Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 09:16 pm    
By david

I ask for 1 simple request and people start saying I'm a pest! 

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 10:27 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Admin: "I just updated the MCP for the first time in six months!" 

David: "When will you update again?" 

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty pesty. 


And, Dhall, sorry to disappoint, but there won't be a Captain Britain update soon. Eventually, but not "soon". These first 15-20 issues are tough because they each contain three or four new stories, each of which needs to be analyzed with equal care -- extra care, sometimes, since some folks around here don't think the Hulk or SHIELD stories should be accepted as canon. 

Once "Black Knight" becomes the only new strip in the book, updates should chug out regularly. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 10:42 pm    
By david

Jeph: 
People will stop coming here if you continue telling them what to do / not to do! :wink:

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 11:07 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

david wrote: 
>>>
Jeph: 
People will stop coming here if you continue telling them what to do / not to do! 
<<<


That's what moderators do. And don't worry, David. I took it in the spirit it was intended. 


watching: heavyweights

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 11:13 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Admin: "I just updated the MCP for the first time in six months!" 
<<<

*Ahem* Four months. 


watching: green bay v. carolina

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2004 11:25 pm    
By david

Russ: 
On a more serious note - do you need any help with the remaining Wolverine (66 to 81) or Excalibur issues (61 to 79) from the gap?

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 12:00 am  
By ADMINISTRATOR

I don't think so. Of course, after the gap is closed, the public will decide. 


watching: fox 6 news

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 01:20 am    
By david

Is there a place where I can post what I think will be a list of missing issues other than this board?

			*	*	*

Posted: 14 Sep 2004 01:41 am    
By John Simons

If I am understanding your question correctly, you may be interested in adding to this thread: 

http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=509

			*	*	*

Thread 118

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 04:06 pm    Post subject: Keep an eye out for... (some spoilers below)
By Ant-Man

There have been some really good message threads lately that have helped some people find obscure appearances of characters that they follow. I thought that I would throw my list out there. 

Here they are: if you happen to spot any 'unlikely' appearances, I would appreciate a quick note... 

Ant-Man II (yes, I know, he got blowed up real good) 
Beast 
Beta Ray Bill 
Captain Britain 
Colossus 
Forge 
Juggernaut 
Mojoverse-related characters (Longshot, Mojo, Spiral, Quark, etc) 
Red Wolf 
Sasquatch 
Sebastian Shaw 
Silver Samurai 
Sunfire 
Terrax 
Typhoid Mary 
Union Jack III 
Adam Warlock
_________________
-Brian Cook-

Last edited by Ant-Man on 17 Sep 2004 07:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 05:17 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Some limited help may be on the way, Brian. 


watching: city confidential

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 07:48 pm
By Ant-Man

I just thought that it might get some discussions started, and I might find out that there are some appearances that I've missed. 

I know that a few of these characters will be in Jeph's X-Watch, so I'll keep an eye on that...
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2004 08:48 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Sorry if I said something that chased you away, but that's not what I meant. It's a perfectly legit question. I just meant there are some...discussions going on behind the scenes that may end up helping you out. One day. 


watching: daria

			*	*	*

Thread 119

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 03:43 pm    Post subject: Question about Dr. Strange comics
By Roma

Hey I have a question. 

Dr. Strange v3 is that Master of the Mystic Arts or Sorcerer Supreme ?? 
Just looking for V3 comes up empty, you just get the titles just given. 

Hope someone can help

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 04:04 pm    
By Ant-Man

Sorcerer Supreme
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2004 06:28 pm    
By SeanCurtin

They Key doesn't list many alternate titles that various series are sometimes better known as: 

CABLE: BLOOD AND METAL = C 
DEVIL DINOSAUR SPRING FLING = DDINO2 
DOCTOR STRANGE: THE FLIGHT OF BONES = DRSTR4 
DOCTOR STRANGE, SORCERER SUPREME = DRSTR3 
EXCALIBUR: THE SWORD IS DRAWN = XCALSE 
EXCALIBUR: WEIRD WAR THREE = XCALGN 
FEAR = AIF 
GALACTUS THE DEVOURER = GAL 
GHOST RIDER: THE HAMMER LANE = GR4 
HAWKEYE: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST MARKSMAN = HAWK3 
INCREDIBLE HULK = H2 
INHUMANS SPECIAL = I:GR 
KA-ZAR, LORD OF THE HIDDEN JUNGLE = KZ2 
KA-ZAR QUARTERLY = KZ 
KA-ZAR THE SAVAGE = KZ3 
KA-ZAR: SIBLING RVALRY = KZ4 -1 
MARC SPECTOR, MOON KNIGHT = MK3 
MIGHTY AVENGERS = A 
MIGHTY THOR = T 
MOON KNIGHT: FIST OF KHONSHU = MK2 
MOON KNIGHT: THE RESURRECTION = MK4 
MUTANT MISADVENTURES OF CLOAK & DAGGER = C&D3 
PETER PARKER, THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN = PPTSS 
PETER PARKER, SPIDER-MAN = S-M 
PHOENIX: THE UNTOLD STORY = PHOENIX 
PRINCE NAMOR, THE SUB-MARINER = SUB-M2 
SAVAGE SHE-HULK = S-H 
SECRET WARS = M/SHSW 
SENSATIONAL SHE-HULK = S-H2 
SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED = ASMU 
SPIDER-MAN'S TANGLED WEB = TW 
WOLVERINE: ORIGIN = O 
X-MEN VOL. 1 = UX 
X-MEN: MAGIK = MGK2 

On the subject of the Key: in the second list (series names followed by codes), Strong Guy Reborn has the order reversed. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 04:51 am    
By Roma

thanx that makes it a lot easier.

			*	*	*

Thread 120

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 06:28 pm    Post subject: Administrator annoucement
By ADMINISTRATOR

Guys, I may be out of pocket for the next several days. Ivan is about to bear down on me, and we've been warned that we may be disabled here for up to two weeks. 

The forums should, of course, function quite ably without me, and I leave them in the able hands of our moderators. 

I may or may not be available, for the rest of the month. 


watching: ivan

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 06:33 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Good luck!! 

I'll try my hardest to wreck the board by the time you get back online. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 08:45 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

Our thoughts are with you, Russ. And I have every confidence that Jeph will wreck the board. 
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Sep 2004 09:49 pm    
By Dhall

Best of luck, I have relatives in Florida...It's really been hurricane season in that part of the world...... 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 10:05 am    
By SKleefeld [DIRECTOR]

Take care, Russ. Let me know if there's anything I can do from Ohio.

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 10:20 am    
By Paul O'Brien [DIRECTOR]

Best of luck, Russ. We'll keep things in order here for you.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 08:53 pm    
By Kevin W. [DIRECTOR]

Good Luck, Russ! I hearing on the news that Ivan made landfall finally...here's to hoping it passes quickly, (and not so violently)...
_________________
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility....or so they say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 07:11 am    Post subject: Hey Russ
By Jason Doty

I live in Milton, just outside Pensacola, FL. We just got power last night at 8 o'clock after 8 days. I don't know where you live, but we got hit pretty hard by Ivan. I hope you're fairing o.k. Peace Doty

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 09:34 am 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Thanks, Jason. I live way up here in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and we still had hurricane force winds, so it's scary just to think about what you folks went through. My home and family survived wholly intact, but my business has suffered some blows, since some of my biggest customers are located on the Gulf Coast. 

Did you wait out the storm, and would you do it again? 


watching: college gameday

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2004 03:40 pm    Post subject: I Would not do it again!!!!
By Jason Doty

We stayed, I definatly would not do it again. This place got tore up pretty bad but very few people died, I think the last count was 11 and several of those were after the fact, working on clean up. I've been through earth quakes and blizzards out west and up north, and this was definatly the most unnerving. Luckily everything is getting repaired quickly. I was even able to pick up my comic books before we had power or were lifted from the county curfew. Peace Doty!

			*	*	*

Thread 121

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 12:34 pm    Post subject: ASM # 1-500 on CD-Rom
By Jhaeman

I just saw solicited in Previews a CD-Rom containing Amazing Spider-Man issues 1-500, complete with all text pages, advertisements, covers, and in full color. 

If this trend catches on, it could really change the way we read and think about comics. While there will always be the sentimental attachment to the feel and smell of paper comics, the ability to have all 500 issues (something I would likely never be able to obtain otherwise) for $ 60 seriously tempts me to sell my ASM back issues...

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 12:52 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

I would rather see them provide 100 issues at a time, at a price of $20. When I scan for my own personal use, I scan with a resolution of 300 dpi, then use Photoshop to reduce it to 150 dpi, which merges the dot patterns into smooth colors, and still yields huge displays. I can get about 30 books on one CD this way, with no advertisements. By scanning at 72 dpi, I can get 300 books on 1 CD, again with no ads, but at that resolution, some words are blurry. 

I can't believe they can squeeze 500 books onto 1 CD and still maintain passable image quality. 

However, if it's a multi-CD set, then we're cooking with gas. 


watching: live from

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 01:36 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

From what I've read, it's a 10-disc set. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 01:22 am    
By shandrakor

My thought on the subject: I hope it's not too late for this idea to be successful. 

The fact is that there's already a decent sized comic scanning and distribution "pirate" community out there on the internet, and there has been for several years now. Unlike the situation with music or movie piracy, this is an underground that got to a market segment AHEAD of the publisher, and I think it's going to harm the sales of this particular type of product more than if the publishers had been there first. 

Then again, I've been wishing that the publishers would do this since the mid-90's, and maybe there's more people out there like me than I'm aware of, but who either lack the technical accumen to get these things on the internet, or who for ethical reasons choose to avoid the cheap and dirty route to being a completist. 

Briefly regarding the product itself: I love the decision to include the old letters pages, but strongly disagree with the choice to include the advertisements. While initially they can be cute and campy, they're quickly going to get annoying, and reading comics at a computer is already much less pleasant than flopping back on a couch with real sheets of paper. 

I agree that 500 issues for $60 is an amazing deal, but it's a tougher feat to match if the sales go well and they decide to continue it. Not a lot of individual books ran for 500 issues. A better choice would be 100 issues for 15-20 bucks. If that goes well, spreading things out is easy, and moving to an online distribution method to open up the entire back catalogue is the logical next step from there. 

In short, I'm tempted to buy the package, not just for the 500 issues of ASM, but mostly to help encourage this type of product.

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 02:26 am    
By PeteD

I already have this on order and can't wait. 

If it is as good as I hope, I would like to see the comics released on CD-rom in month to month order for all the Marvel titles, because the one problem readers of this Spider-Man collection will have is when crossover stories kick-in. Clone saga anyone? 

Like the idea of downloading, much better than waiting for deliveries.

			*	*	*

Thread 122

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 08:50 am    Post subject: Boston Comic Spectaculah - Saturday Sept. 25th!
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Anyone from the boards live in the Boston area? Primate Promotions is once again hosting their bi-monthly Boston Comic Book and Toy Spectacular -- and I'm once again gonna be there, crawling around the 50-cent bins on my hands and knees. 

Does anyone else on the boards ever attend these shows? It might be a hoot to meet some of you in person... 

(Unless you're that dude who wears the unwashed Spider-Man costume all day. You I can skip meeting.) 

This month's show is on Saturday, Sept. 25th, from 10am-4pm. Admission is $6 ($5 with coupon!). After this, they go back to their usual Sunday shows, on October 24th. 

Click here for their godawful website! 

The convention is held at: 

the Boston Radisson Hotel (formerly the 57, for you older New Englanders) 
200 Stuart St., 6th Floor 
Boston, MA 

It's right downtown, in the Theatre District. T stops (subway stops) close by are Chinatown and New England Medical Center (Orange Line), or Boylston (Green Line). 

These shows aren't on the scale of WizardWorld Chicago or anything, but I enjoy 'em. Hope to see some of you there! 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Sep 2004 10:05 pm    
By Ant-Man

Speaking of conventions, I just ordered my tickets for WizardWorld Dallas (November 5th through 7th) 

Highlights of the Guest List: 

Jim Lee 
Jason Mewes ("Clerks", "Mallrats") 
Joe Casey 
John Cassaday 
Barry Kitson 
Angel Medina 
Marc Silvestri 
Michael Turner 
Ethan van Sciver 
Mark Waid 
Skottie Young 

This should be fun! 
It was $40 for the 3 days, and you get an exclusive sketch cover variant of the variant cover for Wolverine #20 with advance orders
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 27 Sep 2004 10:03 pm    
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

So, Jeph, how was the comic book convention?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 01:33 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

75 comic books worth of good.  

I managed to pick up a lot of current books for 50 cents -- and a lot of OLD books in good shape for under $10. 

Amazing Spider-Man #71, Avengers #79 and 101, Sub-Mariner #35, Tales of Suspense #91 ... all mine. (And what do they all have in common?) 

Still a frustratingly large amount of mid-90s and Marvel UK books that *should* be in 50-cent bins, but aren't. Really, is "Incomplete Death's Head" #12 worth $5? 

And the chronology bug got me to pick up a bunch of issues of Marvel Saga. (Hey, there might be some new canon material in #1...) 

All in all, good fun. Plus I got to tease the show-runner, Dave Cummings, about his public dust-up with Evan Dorkin the week before in New York... 

I look forward to next month's show.  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 02:19 pm    
By John Simons

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Amazing Spider-Man #71, Avengers #79 and 101, Sub-Mariner #35, Tales of Suspense #91 ... all mine. (And what do they all have in common?) 
<<<


Filling in our Quicksilver gaps, are we? 

Quote: 
>>>
Still a frustratingly large amount of mid-90s and Marvel UK books that *should* be in 50-cent bins, but aren't. Really, is "Incomplete Death's Head" #12 worth $5? 
<<<


This is a phenomenon I just don't get. No one in their right might would pay more than 50 cents for Marvel UK books. Hell, I try not to pay more than 50 cents for any comic that came out in the 90's! 

Quote: 
>>>
All in all, good fun. Plus I got to tease the show-runner, Dave Cummings, about his public dust-up with Evan Dorkin the week before in New York... 
<<<


Geez, and based on Evan's comics, I've always assumed him to be a sunny, happy-go-lucky kind of a guy 
_________________
"Jessica, whatever you do...don't contradict the continuity! They'll eat you alive! They'll. Eat. You. Alive!"

			*	*	*

Thread 123

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 09:31 pm    Post subject: Uncanny X-Men #449 (spoilers)
By Ant-Man

Picked up UX #449 today, and it has an appearance by "Courtney Ross" 

The last time I remember Courtney appearing, she was turned into a stain on the floor in Excalibur #5...did I miss something?
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 09:33 pm    
By jephyork [DIRECTOR]

Nah. That's still Sat-Yr-9, impersonating Courtney. I guess she's been doing it for years. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 09:42 pm    
By Ant-Man

That was my assumption, but it had been so long since that had been addressed, that I wanted to make sure that I was on the right page.
_________________
-Brian Cook-

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2004 10:13 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Wasn't her impersonation revealed to Excalibur in the last issues of Alan Davis' run on their book? Surely they'd have said or done something about it at some point in time... 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2004 03:12 am    
By Peter Fabricius

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
Wasn't her impersonation revealed to Excalibur in the last issues of Alan Davis' run on their book? Surely they'd have said or done something about it at some point in time... 
<<<


Excalibur #55-56, actually. But you are right, they know. 
I haven't seen the issue yet, so I can't explain anything, but Sat-Yr-9 is an exact double, with presumably the same fingerprints, so it would be hard to prove legally that she is not Courtney Ross.
_________________
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Sep 2004 11:04 pm    
By Dhall

Keep in mind that the X-Men probably don't know that Sat-Yr-9 has resumed impersonating Courtney. They NEVER checked up on her after those Excalibur issues. 

Dave H
