	Marvel Universe Forum
1. Civil War Front Line Identification?
2. Annuals/MCP Dates
3. Carrion II's mother
4. Flashback in Beyond! #3
5. The begining of decimation
6. CYRUS BLACK CORRECTION
7. A4 #16-20 -- the Collective!
8. ROOSEVELT, FRANKLIN DELANO
9. Captain America's, Bucky's, & Red Skull's 'deaths'
10. Defenders 98
11. Invaders in Marvels #1
12. Midnight Sons Unlimited #9
13. Inferno chronology
14. Mutant Massacre, and Mephisto Vs. era chronologies
15. Excelsior
16. Doc Ock Miniseries
17. Human Torch; N @-1 fb

	MC-2 Forum
18. Re: Iron Man: Crash takes place in an alternate future

	Issue Analysis Forum
19. X-Statix 21-25
20. Marvel Spotlight v2 #9
21. Marvel Spotlight V2 #10
22. Marvel Spotlight v2 #11
23. Micronauts
24. Youngblood/X-Force & X-Force/Youngblood
25. Captain America Comics 2-5 & misc
26. 65th Anniversary Special #1
27. Captain America v5 1-15-FBs, & misc
28. Marvel Fanfare 32/1

	Chat Forum
29. Torch & Ben Reilly vs. Paibok & multi-colored symbio
30. Chronology Mapping Software?






Thread 1

Posted: 01 Sep 2006 07:04 am    Post subject: Civil War Front Line Identification?
By Mikhail

Who were the four characters captured by Iron Man and Spider-Man in the last FL? I recognized Phone Ranger, Wildstreak, and Lightbright, but not the pointy-masked guy in yellow.

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Thread 2

Posted: 01 Sep 2006 08:07 pm    Post subject: Annuals/MCP Dates
By whoisthedoctor

A couple years ago, someone on this site was nice enough to send me a list of the rough months in which the various Marvel Annuals were released. Unfortunately, as my old computer turned itself into a giant paperweight about 2 months ago, I lost my copy of the list. 

Does anyone have a rough list of what months the annuals came out that I could have for research? 

In addition, is there a list of what months the various issues of Marvel Comics Presents came out. Being bi-weekly *usually* means two issues a month, but sometimes there's that pesky overlap week, and the book's publishing info is annoyingly sparse. 

Thanks in advance, 
--Tom Bradford :P

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Posted: 02 Sep 2006 07:24 am    
By Arthur
Director

go to http://www.maelmill-insi.de/UHBMCC/FRAMES00.HTM and click on 'Date'. 

select a year and you can see all marvel mags released that year, by month.

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Yeah, but it's only for the most recent ones. 

This is not the case for 1967's, for exemple : 
http://www.maelmill-insi.de/UHBMCC/DAT1967.HTM 

(It's still a great resource, but alas not perfect)

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Posted: 02 Sep 2006 11:21 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

A clue can sometimes be gleaned from the indicia of books from the sixties, when the annuals were treated as part of the regular title. For instance, a glance at SGTF@ 3 reveals the following: "Published monthly except August, semi-monthly." That tells us that SGTF@ 3 came out with the August cover-dated books. 


watching: lost

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Posted: 03 Sep 2006 06:31 am
By whoisthedoctor

Thanks a lot, guys, I appreciate it. Fantastic site.

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Thread 3

Posted: 04 Sep 2006 07:03 pm    Post subject: Carrion II's mother
By RLG

The entries for Martha MacBride and Beatrice MacBride should be merged into one, since this is the same woman (Malcolm's mother). Also, her first appearance is PPTSS 162, which is not on her "MARTHA" listing. 

MACBRIDE, MARTHA BEATRICE 
PPTSS 162 
PPTSS 163 
ASM 390 
ASM 391 
ASM 392 
ASM 393 

RLG

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Thread 4

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Flashback in Beyond! #3
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Does anyone know where we should place the flashback in BEYOND! #3? In it, the Beyonder transports "Captain Marvel" (II, Monica Rambeau), Coldblood, Darkhawk, Deathlok III (Michael Collins), Dracula, Sleepwalker, Terror, and Wonder Man to Battleworld to fight. This flashback occurs "years" before the present and should mark Collins' last appearance before BEYOND! #1. Rambeau has her original Afro, a hairdo she ditched right after Secret Wars II, IIRC, but this is something that can be ignored, given the presence of more recent characters (assuming the heroes are plucked from the same point in time). Wonder Man is wearing his black tank-top with the red W across the chest.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:31 pm    
By Mikhail

Assuming they're all from the same time and same dimension as 616, it has to be: 

-Before Avengers Unplugged #5, and Monica becoming Photon 
-After Sleepwalker #1 
-After Deathlok #34, his last appearance before now 
-Between Avengers West Coast #25 and Force Works #1 for Wondy to be alive and conceivably in that costume 
-Before Darkhawk #38, where he changed bodies, or after he changed back BTS at some point after #50 
-After Dracula's resurrection in Blade: The Vampire Hunter #1-10 

I don't know the exact publication months for those, but I think it's a really narrow gap, if any gap even exists. Dracula's resurrection, Deathlok's cancellation, Darkhawk's transformation, and Wonder Man's death(-ation) all happened around 1994.

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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:48 pm    
By Somebody

Plus, there's the whole Beyonder thing, since in 1994 and for a while either side she was Kosmos (then turned into the mortalised Maker BTS until she was killed BTS in Ann:Prologue [confirmed in Ann:SS 3]. While the Thanos series suggested she might turn back into the Beyonder if the Maker was killed, it was within the past few months that she was killed). 

Either this is not the same Beyonder, or there's a really, really screwy timeline here... 

Mikhail wrote: 
>>>
I don't know the exact publication months for those, but I think it's a really narrow gap, if any gap even exists. Dracula's resurrection, Deathlok's cancellation, Darkhawk's transformation, and Wonder Man's death(-ation) all happened around 1994. 
<<<

Well, unless there's a specific pre-extant [set of] reason[s] why they can't have occured in the right order for that to happen, this gives the order as being the "right" one, even if that leads to reshuffling...

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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:13 pm    
By SKleefeld
Director

Is there any reason why they HAVE to be from the same time period? After all, Beyonder plucked Dr. Doom from a different time as his "contemporaries" for the original Secret Wars. 

So unless there's cited reasons why they can't be from different periods, I'd be inclined to cite Occam's Razor and say that they were indeed pulled from different periods based on their costumes.

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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:32 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Plus, there's the whole Beyonder thing, since in 1994 and for a while either side she was Kosmos (then turned into the mortalised Maker BTS until she was killed BTS in Ann:Prologue [confirmed in Ann:SS 3]. While the Thanos series suggested she might turn back into the Beyonder if the Maker was killed, it was within the past few months that she was killed). 
<<<

It's possible that Marvel might have asked Giffen to kill off the Maker in Annihilation so that they could reuse the Secret Wars-styled Beyonder elsewhere. It's not like he didn't set that up when he wrote Thanos. 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Mikhail wrote: 
>>>
I don't know the exact publication months for those, but I think it's a really narrow gap, if any gap even exists. Dracula's resurrection, Deathlok's cancellation, Darkhawk's transformation, and Wonder Man's death(-ation) all happened around 1994. 
<<<

Well, unless there's a specific pre-extant [set of] reason[s] why they can't have occured in the right order for that to happen, this gives the order as being the "right" one, even if that leads to reshuffling... 
<<<

Let's see. 

* The status quos of Coldblood and Terror haven't changed in any way that's relevant. 
* Darkhawk changed his costume in Darkhawk #34 (December 1993), and changed back at some point after Darkhawk #50 (April 1995). 
* Deathlok's last appearance before this was either Spider-Man: The Power of Terror #4 (Apr 1995) or Secret Defenders #25 (March 1995), depending on how SM:POT gets chronologized. 
* Dracula was resurrected BTS during/after Nightstalkers #18 (April 1994), although it wasn't actually revealed until the subsequent Blade series, and the nature of said resurrection wasn't made fully clear until the OHOTMU: Horror 2005. For that matter, Epic Comics' Tomb of Dracula #4 (1992) suggested that Dracula was still around, albeit in a discorporated form, so even that particular resurrection isn't necessarily set in stone. 
* Monica became Photon in Avengers Unplugged #5 (June 1996). 
* Sleepwalker apparently left Earth in Sleepwalker #33 (February 1994), but (IIRC) the Sleepwalker who appeared in Marvel Team-Up is the original; if so, he obviously returned at some point. 
* Wonder Man died in Force Works #1 (July 1994). 

The only one that doesn't fit with the others (as far as I can tell) is Wonder Man. Given that Doctor Doom was pulled out of time to appear in the original Secret Wars, I have no problem with one (or more than one, or all) of these characters being drawn from different points in time. That would also explain Monica's hair beyond "art error" or "she changed it, then changed her mind and changed it back". 

-Sean

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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:56 pm    
By Somebody

SKleefeld wrote: 
>>>
Is there any reason why they HAVE to be from the same time period? After all, Beyonder plucked Dr. Doom from a different time as his "contemporaries" for the original Secret Wars. 

So unless there's cited reasons why they can't be from different periods, I'd be inclined to cite Occam's Razor and say that they were indeed pulled from different periods based on their costumes. 
<<<

Weren't he (retcon) and Kang the exceptions out of about thirty though? When 90%+ of the subjects were from the same time period in the noted "prior behaviour" (presuming this is the same Beyonder), assuming that up to five of seven were from different time periods.... 


SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Plus, there's the whole Beyonder thing, since in 1994 and for a while either side she was Kosmos (then turned into the mortalised Maker BTS until she was killed BTS in Ann:Prologue [confirmed in Ann:SS 3]. While the Thanos series suggested she might turn back into the Beyonder if the Maker was killed, it was within the past few months that she was killed). 
<<<

It's possible that Marvel might have asked Giffen to kill off the Maker in Annihilation so that they could reuse the Secret Wars-styled Beyonder elsewhere. It's not like he didn't set that up when he wrote Thanos. 
<<<

Yeah, I acknowledged that - but since that Deathlok's apparently been there for "years" (since c. 1994 real time, apparently...) and struck a deal with the Beyonder to stay there rather than get killed, screwy timeline or different Beyonder. 

And, on Captain Monika... she's flying but not glowing. Isn't that tied to the period between Avengers-#295ish and Starblast where she couldn't turn all the way into energy?

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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:52 pm    
By lkseitz

Personally, I wouldn't even worry about trying to chronologize this series before it's over. It's obvious things are not necessarily what they seem. Even the heroes are already questioning Deathlok's story.
_________________
Lee K. Seitz 
Slowly adding insignificant characters to the MCP

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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:34 pm    
By Somebody

Well, we saw him burying the BiBeast and a skrull in the opening pages of #1 while a letter he wrote lamenting the whole business plays as narration (calling it "this depraved cosmic experiment"), and him walking away from a cemetery with tens (hundreds?) of graves. Plus his internal dialogue in #3 synches with his story, and when we get internal dialogue, that's usually a sign that the character isn't lying. 

Plus, he's a pet character of the writer, who wrote or co-wrote his origin miniseries and the first 25 issues of his ongoing.

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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:06 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Well, we saw him burying the BiBeast  
<<<

BTW, if this is the one and only Bi-Beast (and not some android body, as with Bi-Beast II), then that places the contemporary portion of BEYOND! after Bi-Beast's appearance in THING v2 #8FB (5:3-8:4). It's also sometime after Hank's and Jan's time living together in London, which followed A:FINALE. There's a reference to this in BEYOND! #3. I'm guessing this story occurs shortly before Civil War.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:25 am    
By SeanCurtin

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
BTW, if this is the one and only Bi-Beast (and not some android body, as with Bi-Beast II), then that places the contemporary portion of BEYOND! after Bi-Beast's appearance in THING v2 #8FB (5:3-8:4). It's also sometime after Hank's and Jan's time living together in London, which followed A:FINALE. There's a reference to this in BEYOND! #3. I'm guessing this story occurs shortly before Civil War. 
<<<

If it is the real Beyonder in Beyond!, then Beyond! probably takes place after the Maker dies in Annihilation. The Silver Surfer's appearance in Annihilation follows from Planet Hulk: Exile, which in turn follows from New Avengers: Illuminati Special. Since Namor appears to be on good terms with the other heroes in Thing v2 #8, the entirety of Thing v2 should probably occur before New Avengers: Illuminati Special. Civil War happens at some point after Beyond, unless everyone forgets Peter's identity at the end of CW, which seems highly unlikely. 

-Sean

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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:08 pm    
By Mikhail

To continue the cross-connection, Annihilation also takes place somewhere concurrently with the Shi'ar storyline in UXM, as a vague reference is made to it in UXM #478. Of course, Annihilation is a months long event in Marvel-Time, so UXM's arc, Beyond, Exile, etc all simply occur SOMETIME after Annihilation Day, then.

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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:36 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
If it is the real Beyonder in Beyond!, then Beyond! probably takes place after the Maker dies in Annihilation.  
<<<

I can buy that, at least for now, for the contemporary content of BEYOND! However, we're led to believe that the Beyonder's been arranging all these secret bouts on Battleworld for the "years" that Michael Collins has been there. As Jeph would no doubt assert, it's too early to place the contemporary portion, given we still don't know what's happening in this title. I thought we might treat the flashback in #3 as an isolated task, but it might be better understood in the context of whatever happens during the remaining issues. We'll see...
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:12 pm    
By Andy Holcombe

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
However, we're led to believe that the Beyonder's been arranging all these secret bouts on Battleworld for the "years" that Michael Collins has been there.in the context of whatever happens during the remaining issues. We'll see... 
<<<

Anyone got any idea how long a year is on whatever planet Beyond! is set on is? Collins could be referring to local years instead of Earth years. Just a thought.

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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:45 pm    
By JLH

Perhaps Beyonder time traveled after being freed during Annihilation Day. From our standpoint, his appearances during the years he was a girl were actually him following his freedom. If he can pull people from various points in time, going back in time shouldn't really be a problem.

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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:31 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

I would hold back on trying to explain that flashback just now. It's immediately followed by the Wasp protesting that it doesn't make any sense, which isn't so much an alarm bell as a blaring klaxon telling us not to take it at face value. I'm virtually certain that we'll get a fuller explanation before the series finishes.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
I would hold back on trying to explain that flashback just now. It's immediately followed by the Wasp protesting that it doesn't make any sense 
<<<

At first blush, I simply concluded that participants had their memories erased, as was theorized in the story. But the more I think about this story and the revelation at the end of #3, the more I think something fishy is going on here. I suspect there are more deceptions to be revealed before this series ends.
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 5

Posted: 12 Sep 2006 09:15 pm    Post subject: The begining of decimation
By khellendros

I'm a little os confused in the beginning of decimation. I tried to follow the calendar but i think the chronology that i'm following is kind of strange to this site. 

I have taken that chronology at demonoid and it easied my way often, but now that i arrived at pack 12 i don't know where to go. 

Can any of you help me???? I want to know where i follow... 

thanx a lot

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Posted: 13 Sep 2006 09:29 am    
By jephyork
Director

I'm sorry, what? 

"Demonoid"? "Pack 12"? I'm lost as to what you're trying to say. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 13 Sep 2006 11:35 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Demonoid is a torrent site. We've been getting posts recently from several people who seem to think we provide torrents. 


watching: live from

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Posted: 13 Sep 2006 01:54 pm    
By JD

Actually, this guy just seems to want a reading order for recent issues, but since I have no idea where "pack 12" stops...

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Posted: 13 Sep 2006 09:49 pm    
By khellendros

They are trying to make some chronology and the files are quite fine but the packs have ended when i arrived at the most recent. 

I stoped at Mutopia X #5. That is the point. As it follows, have Decimation - The Day after. 

Could that be a lead?

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Thread 6

Posted: 14 Sep 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: CYRUS BLACK CORRECTION
By ytsejammer

Here's how Cyrus Black is listed in the MCP... 

BLACK, CYRUS 

DEF 6 
DRSTR2 34 
TTA2 13/2 


BUT... a caption on the Tales To Astonish story places the tale prior to Dr Strange # 34 in which Black is killed off (although of course, NOBODY stays dead in comics). 

So the listing should read... 


BLACK, CYRUS 

DEF 6 
TTA2 13/2 
DRSTR2 34

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Thread 7

Posted: 05 Sep 2006 01:09 pm    Post subject: A4 #16-20 -- the Collective!
By jephyork
Director

Over in the Civil War thread, ashram wrote: 
>>>
Let's talk about 'the collective.' I haven't read it yet (waiting for the trade). From what I have heard, I assume that it comes after X: DG. If this is the case, that would place both DG and the collective between X 187 and Cap going underground at the end of CW 1. 
<<<

I assume you're placing The Collective after X:DG, because the Collective's energy ball is sighted in X:DG #1. Well, I've got a little bit of inside info about that. 

If you all run to your comic stores, pick up last week's "Marvel Spotlight: Ed Brubaker / Billy Tan", and flip to the inside front cover, you'll see a "special thanks to Jeph York" credit. (Yay!) I got this credit because I transcribed the Ed Brubaker interview. So I heard the entire thing ... including stuff that didn't make it to the printed page. 

One of the things Brubaker discussed in the interview was that the Collective ball was NOT supposed to be seen in X:DG #1! It wasn't in his script, it wasn't in the art that he saw -- it was added in at the last minute. When Bru found out that the ball had been added, he requested that it be removed for the eventual collected editions. Due to an oversight, it was not removed from the recent hardcover -- but as far as Bru knows, it *will* be removed in the TPB edition. 

So -- as far as the *writer's* intent goes, the opening scene in X:DG #1 was supposed to show us signs that the Collective ball *had been* there -- but that it was *not* still there. 

I guess the editor's intent, in adding in the energy ball, was different. And of course editorial intent trumps writer's intent. 

But what does it say when someone -- presumably that same editor -- okays *removing* the energy ball from the TPB edition? Does that tell us that they now consider adding the ball to have been a mistake? That they now agree with Ed -- that the ball *wasn't* there in that scene? 

The TPB hasn't been published yet, of course, and the energy ball may well still be present when it sees print. But if it IS excised ... what does that mean? 

Debate time? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 05 Sep 2006 02:10 pm    
By Somebody

Isn't the Coll. Ed. editorial staff seperate from the X-books editorial staff? (not to mention, oc, that the DG editor has now left Marvel...) 

I think, based on what you've said, that this is a case of Marvel wanting all its books published in the same month to line up (i.e., if all the books have a Big Ball of Energy&trade; in an Earthview, you wouldn't want one, especially a high-profile one spinning out, NOT to have it). Plus, isn't a big ball of energy like that exclusively the colourist's job these days most times anyway, so at most you'd get a vague outline on the pencils? 

Finally, even if the Big Ball of Energy&trade; hadn't been in that specific area, that wouldn't have meant it had crashed to Earth since it was relatively localised.

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Posted: 05 Sep 2006 09:20 pm    
By jephyork
Director

I'm not saying that the Big Ball's absence means that X:DG *must* occur after A4 #16-20 -- I'm saying that it might give us some wiggle room, if we need it. Do we? 

The penciller of X:DG #1 didn't draw the energy ball, by the way, even vaguely. Ed was very clear on that -- also, since it wasn't in the script, why would the penciller draw it? It was added at the last minute by editorial. 

And you're right, I don't know who Ed approached about getting approval to remove it -- he might have bypassed the editor that put it in, and gone to someone else who agreed to take it out to appease Ed, rather than because they were reversing their editorial decision. 

Just thought I'd throw it out there because I thought it was interesting. If we need the wiggle room, this might -- MIGHT -- give it to us. If we need it. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 15 Sep 2006 05:14 pm    
By ashram316

Okay. I just finished reading the Collective, and a few things occur to me. First, it can't be too far behind A4 15 due to Hill's comments that she 'just saw' that press conference where the Avengers went public. Second, the entire arc takes place in the same day. I think that the best placement for these issues is just before X 186. Logan is among the Avengers who battle Apocalypse and Spidey is in his new costume in that issue, plus it could explain why the X-men didn't pick up the phone when Wolvie calls. Any thoughts?

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Thread 8

Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: ROOSEVELT, FRANKLIN DELANO
By Enda80

ROOSEVELT, FRANKLIN DELANO 
**CA 281-FB 
CA 423 
{GSINV 1-FB} 
INV 3-FB 
INV 5 
MSU 9 


I will go through Marvels#1 for the newspaper references to 1940's Cap stories to see if the ones referenced are already in the MCP, and the Golden Age Handbook for any others referenced. Also, I'll check MSH 3 3 for those newsreel adventures. 


From Jeff of Earth-J at captaincomics.us 
Eventually, Cap made his way back to the states (with Bucky) in time to foil a plot to assassinate FDR (as revealed in newsreel footage in Captain America #281) on November 22, 1941. 

A flashback sequence from CA #262 shows Cap in battle (sans Bucky or 
Invaders), fighting alongside infantrymen against the Red Skull in 
1943. I'll see if I can nail it down.

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:14 am    
By Col_Fury

Another old thread: 

Captain America #262-FB pg4pn5-pg5 
Allied troops are caught behind enemy lines and attacked by the Red Skull. Captain America arrives and drives the Skull off. 

-noted as 1943, no Bucky, no Invaders. 

Captain America #281-FB pg1-pg2pn2 
Newsreel footage shows Cap & Bucky fighting a group of militarists called the Defenders. They defeat the group, stopping their plan to murder FDR and take over the United States. 

-noted as 22 November, 1941. FDR is not shown, but should be given a BTS, I would think. 

Some placement suggestions: 

Captain America/ Steven Rogers 
... 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22 
*CA 281-FB (11/22/41) 
INV 29-FB 
... 
CA:ME (01/07/43) 
*CA 262-FB (1943) 
DF 2.4 (late/43) 
... 

Bucky/James Buchanan Bucky Barnes 
... 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22 
*CA 281-FB (11/22/41) 
INV 29-FB 

... 

RED SKULL II/JOHANN SCHMIDT 
... 
YOUNG ALLIES 4 
*CA 262-FB (1943) 
CA 219-FB (1944) 
... 

As for FDR, at least for these two appearances: 

... 
CA 423 (spring/41) 
*CA 281-FB-BTS (11/22/41) 
... 

More to come on him later...
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

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Thread 9

Posted: 08 Sep 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Captain America's, Bucky's, & Red Skull's 'deaths'
By Col_Fury

The chronology of Cap's 'death' currently looks like this: 

... 
CA@ 13-FB 
CA:SL2 7 
WX2 14-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
A 56-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
A 56-FB 
{A 4-FB} 
CA 220-FB 
... 

Bucky's: 

... 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
{A 56-FB} 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
A 56-FB 
A 4-FB 
... 

& the Red Skulls': 

... 
TOS 72/2-FB 
TOS 79/2-FB 
... 

The TOS issues of the Red Skull's death intermix with CA@ 13-FB. CA@ 13-FB aren't currently listed in the Red Skull's chronology, and the TOS issues are a little bit before CA@ 13-FB in Cap's. 

Also, the framing sequence of CA:SL2 12 is Bucky's death, it's what's presented as the 'current day,' and all the other sequences are the FlashBacks. So Cap & Bucky attacking Zemo etc should have the FB notation removed. 

Here's a break down: 

16 April, Monday (1945) 

Captain America Annual #13-FB pg9-pg15 
In the Fuhrerbunker, Hitler gives the Red Skull a strong box containing his greatest achievements and tells him to put it somewhere safe so that history will eventually reflect on Hitlers greatness. Meanwhile, Captain America, the Spirit of 76, and the Patriot parachute into Berlin, looking for Hitlers strongbox. Theyre joined by the Red Guardian, whos been sent by Stalin to find the strong box. Together, they make their way through Berlin to find the Red Skull, and a fight breaks out. 

Tales of Suspense #79/2-FB pg5pn1 
Allied planes converge over Berlin. 

Tales of Suspense #72/2-FB pg3pn1-pg3pn3 
Fighting off Nazi troops, Captain America attacks the Red Skull. They make their way into a bunker. 

Tales of Suspense #79/2-FB pg5pn2 
Captain America and the Red Skull fight in the Nazi bunker. 

Tales of Suspense #72/2-FB pg3pn4-pg4pn4 
Cap overpowers the Skull, who begins to brag that a plan of his is being set into motion. Before Cap can get the details, the Allied Powers begin their final invasion of Berlin. 

Tales of Suspense #79/2-FB pg5pn3 
The bunker explodes, debris raining down on Cap & Skull. 

Tales of Suspense #79/2-FB pg4pn5 
The bunker is destroyed, Cap makes it out, but the Red Skull does not. 

Captain America Annual #13-FB pg19pn1-pg19pn4 
Captain America rejoins with the Patriot, Spirit of 76, and Red Guardian. The strong box is lost so they go their separate ways, and Cap chastises the others for giving Red Guardian attitude. Cap must return to England and meet back with Bucky to guard a drone plane. The Red Skull is trapped beneath the rubble, and has been thrown into a form of suspended animation by experimental gases released during the explosion. 

17 April, Tuesday (1945) 

Captain America Annual #13-FB pg20 
Joseph Stalin yells at the Red Guardian for failing to retrieve Hitlers strong box. 

18 April, Wednesday (1945) 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg1-pg4 
Captain America watches Bucky defeat Nazis trying to break into a hanger containing a top secret drone plane. 

Avengers #56-FB pg7 
Baron Zemo sneaks into the hanger containing the experimental drone plane. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg8 
Bucky wonders why the Nazis are after this hangar as he & Cap discover Baron Zemo inside. 

Avengers #56-FB pg8pn1-pg8pn2 
Zemo activates an android. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg9pn2 
Cap & Bucky make their presence known. 

Avengers #56-FB pg8pn3 
Zemo notices Cap & Bucky as they crash through the window. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg15pn1 
Cap & Bucky fall from the window. 

Avengers #56-FB pg8pn4 
Cap & Bucky land on Zemo. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg15pn2-pg16 
Cap fights the android while Bucky fights Zemo. 

Avengers #56-FB pg9-pg10pn1 
Bucky fights the android while Cap fights Zemo. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 pg21-pg22 
Cap & Bucky fight the android. 

Avengers #56-FB pg10pn2 
The android strikes Bucky. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg30pn1-pg30pn2 
Bucky is thrown from the android and hits a wall. 

Avengers #56-FB pg10pn3-pg10pn4 
Cap checks on Bucky and is struck from behind. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg30pn3-pg30pn5 
Cap has been shot by Zemo, and passes out. 

Avengers #56-FB pg11-pg12pn2 
Zemo redressed Cap & Bucky in standard army dress and ties them to the drone plane. 

Avengers #56-FB pg13-pg18pn2 
A time-traveling Captain America, Goliath, Hawkeye, and Black Panther appear and fight Baron Zemo, and a second android is activated. Nearby troops arrive and they overpower the androids and the Avengers vanish. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg34-pg35pn6 
Cap wakes up while Zemo brags, and begins to struggle against his bonds. 

Avengers #56-FB pg18pn3-pg18pn4 
The ropes binding Steve to the plane come loose. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg35pn7-pg36pn2 
Steve breaks free and unties Bucky. 

Avengers #56-FB pg18pn5-pg18pn6 
Zemo launches the plane. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg36pn3-pg37pn2 
Steve & Bucky get a motorcycle. 

Avengers #4-FB pg7pn1 
The drone plane flies out of the hangar and Steve & Bucky go after it. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg37pn3-pg38pn1 
Steve & Bucky chase the plane. 

Avengers #4-FB pg7pn2-pg7pn3 
Bucky jumps on the plane as Steve follows, but his grip is loose. 

Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty v2 #12 pg38pn2-pg38pn7 
Steve tries to get Bucky off the plane. 

Captain America #220-FB pg5pn3 
The plane explodes! 

Avengers #4-FB pg7pn4-pg7pn5 
Steve is thrown from the explosion and falls into the English Channel. 

Avengers #56-FB pg19pn5-pg20pn4 
Zemo gloats over his victory, disintegrates his androids, and escapes. 

Captain America #220-FB pg5pn4-pg10 
Steve is fished out of the English Channel by General Dekkers men and brought onto his submarine. He puts his uniform back on and is led to a laboratory where experimental nerve gas is being worked on. A henchman arrives with Caps shield, and he breaks free after retrieving it. He redresses in his army uniform for a disguise and tries to escape by plane, but its shot down, hes bathed in the nerve gas, and he re-crashes in the English Channel. 

The above dates aren't stated in the comics, but CA@ 13-FB does say it's in April 1945, and the Russians did launch their final assault on Berlin on April 16. What If...? #4 tells us that Cap & Bucky died on April 18, but it's not stated in A 4-FB, A 56-FB, or CA:SL2 12. Just thought I'd throw that in. 

From this, here are some suggested chronology updates: 

Captain America/ Steven Rogers 
... 
CA@ 13-FB pg9-pg15 (04/45) 
TOS 72/2-FB pg3pn1-pg3pn3 
TOS 79/2-FB pg5pn2 
TOS 72/2-FB pg3pn4-pg4pn4 
TOS 79/2-FB pg5pn3 
TOS 72/2-FB pg4pn5 
CA@ 13-FB pg19pn1-pg19pn4 (04/45) 
CA:SL2 12 pg1-pg4, pg8, pg9pn2 
A 56-FB pg8pn3 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn1 
A 56-FB pg8pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn2-pg16 
A 56-FB pg9-pg10pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg21-pg22 
A 56-FB pg10pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn1-pg30pn2 
A 56-FB pg10pn3-pg10pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn3-pg30pn5 
A 56-FB pg11-pg18pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg34-pg35pn6 
A 56-FB pg18pn3-pg18pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg35pn7-pg36pn2 
A 56-FB pg18pn5-pg18pn6 
CA:SL2 12 pg36pn3-pg37pn2 
A 4-FB pg7pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg37pn3-pg38pn1 
A 4-FB pg7pn2-pg7pn3 
CA:SL2 12 pg38pn2-pg38pn7 
CA 220-FB pg5pn3 
A 4-FB pg7pn4-pg7pn5 
CA 220-FB pg5pn4-pg10 
 

Bucky/James Buchanan Bucky Barnes 
... 
CA:SL2 12 pg1-pg4, pg8, pg9pn2 
A 56-FB pg8pn3 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn1 
A 56-FB pg8pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn2-pg16 
A 56-FB pg9-pg10pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg21-pg22 
A 56-FB pg10pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn1-pg30pn2 
A 56-FB pg10pn3-pg10pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn3-pg30pn5 
A 56-FB pg11-pg18pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg34-pg35pn6 
A 56-FB pg18pn3-pg18pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg35pn7-pg36pn2 
A 56-FB pg18pn5-pg18pn6 
CA:SL2 12 pg36pn3-pg37pn2 
A 4-FB pg7pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg37pn3-pg38pn1 
A 4-FB pg7pn2-pg7pn3 
CA:SL2 12 pg38pn2-pg38pn7 
CA 220-FB pg5pn3 
A 4-FB pg7pn4 
 

Red Skull II/Johann Schmidt 
... 
CA@ 13-FB pg9-pg15 (04/45) 
TOS 72/2-FB pg3pn1-pg3pn3 
TOS 79/2-FB pg5pn2 
TOS 72/2-FB pg3pn4-pg4pn4 
TOS 79/2-FB pg5pn3 
TOS 72/2-FB pg4pn5 
CA@ 13-FB pg19pn1-pg19pn4 (04/45) 
... 

As long as I'm at it, here's what Baron Zemo's chronology looks like in this area: 

... 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
A 56-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
A 56-FB 
{A 4-FB} 
A 56-FB 
... 

And an updated suggestion: 

Zemo/Baron Heinrich Zemo 
... 
A 56-FB pg7 
CA:SL2 12 pg8 
A 56-FB pg8pn1-pg8pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg9pn2 
A 56-FB pg8pn3 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn1 
A 56-FB pg8pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn2-pg16 
A 56-FB pg9-pg10pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg21-pg22 
A 56-FB pg10pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn1-pg30pn2 
A 56-FB pg10pn3-pg10pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn3-pg30pn5 
A 56-FB pg11-pg18pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg34-pg35pn6 
A 56-FB pg18pn3-pg18pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg35pn7-pg36pn2 
A 56-FB pg18pn5-pg18pn6 
A 4-FB 
A 56-FB pg19pn5-pg20pn4 
...
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Sep 2006 10:20 pm    
By DonCampbell

Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Captain America #220-FB pg5pn4-pg10 
Steve is fished out of the English Channel by General Dekkers men and brought onto his submarine. He puts his uniform back on and is led to a laboratory where experimental nerve gas is being worked on. A henchman arrives with Caps shield, and he breaks free after retrieving it. He redresses in his army uniform for a disguise and tries to escape by plane, but its shot down, hes bathed in the nerve gas, and he re-crashes in the English Channel. 
<<<

There's something revealed in CAPTAIN AMERICA #220 that you've overlooked. The whole purpose of the storyline in CA #218-220 was to explain why Cap, after he was revived in AVENGERS #4, told the Avengers, "I struck the water off the coast of Newfoundland, and plummetted like a rock" when AVENGERS #56 later showed that the whole drone plane explosion took place over the English Channel. 

The synopsis of CA #220 should read like this: 

Steve is fished out of the English Channel by General Dekkers men and brought onto his submarine where (after his army uniform is removed) he is brought to meet Dekker. The submarine then speeds west until it docks off a pier in Newfoundland. Dekker brings Cap to a laboratory (in his private fortress) where he shows Cap canisters of his experimental nerve gas and a device designed to transfer Cap's power into Dekker's body. Cap then breaks free and retrieves his shield from the henchman who was carrying it. Once out of sight of Dekker's men, he redresses in his army uniform for a disguise and tries to escape by plane, but its shot down, hes bathed in the nerve gas, and he crashes in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Newfoundland. 

That's what Cap remembered in CAPTAIN AMERICA #220 after Dekker used electricity to "jolt" his memory (the nerve gas had robbed Cap of his memory of these events). The real question is, is this storyline still considered to be "in continuity?" Personally, I've always liked it but I don't think that the whole "rescued from the English Channel and brought to Dekker's Newfoundland base" has EVER even been mentioned in any retelling of Cap's last wartime adventure. So, is it still "canon" to Marvel? Or to this project? 

Don Campbell

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Sep 2006 10:45 pm    
By Somebody

Plus, you're not including the events shown in the current volume's issue #6 [and lead-up], which are substantiated by the Bucky issue (#11), including the fact that he was missing the arm which stuck to the drone when he was found by Russians substantiates that version), and which contradicts earlier stuff to a certain extent (Brubaker's on record as saying he never liked the idea of the future Cap "saving" his past self and so the changes are deliberate and the "definitive" version) 

Oh, and it explicitly places the drone incident on a small island in the English Channel, and is dismissive of the Newfoundland thing. (First few pages, although only the last two are relevant).

Last edited by Somebody on 09 Sep 2006 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Sep 2006 11:14 pm    
By JLH

DonCampbell wrote: 
>>>
So, is it still "canon" to Marvel? Or to this project? 
<<<

Wow. I never heard that part of the story before. I can see why it would be ignored, since it really screws with Cap's first words upon getting unfrozen being, "Bucky! Look out!" or similar. Almost like saying Peter Parker was bitten by a second spider right after the first one, or Bruce Banner got bombed twice in a row...

			*	*	*

Posted: 10 Sep 2006 07:39 pm    
By Col_Fury

DonCampbell wrote: 
>>>
There's something revealed in CAPTAIN AMERICA #220 that you've overlooked.  
<<<

Thanks for the catch, Don! 

You're right, the point of those issues were the Newfoundland/English Channel discrepancy, and how Cap got his shield back. 


DonCampbell wrote: 
>>>
is it still "canon" to Marvel? Or to this project?  
<<<

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Oh, and it explicitly places the drone incident on a small island in the English Channel, and is dismissive of the Newfoundland thing.  
<<<

Well, just because it's never referred to again doesn't make it non-canon. And the drone plane has always been in the English Channel, he was brought to Newfoundland afterwards. 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Brubaker's on record as saying he never liked the idea of the future Cap "saving" his past self and so the changes are deliberate and the "definitive" version 
<<<

You're right, I haven't gone through anything 'new' yet, like CA5, as I've been going through what's already listed first. I'll have to take a look, but are you saying that Brubaker's taking the track that as of A 56-FB pg13, when the time-traveling Avengers 'appear' and start to interact with the past, that it becomes an alternate time line, and the rest of the FB in that issue no longer counts? 

Time travel. Gotta love it.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Posted: 12 Sep 2006 11:30 pm    
By Col_Fury

Brubaker is not taking the time travel/alternate past route, but rather overwriting what has already been shown in other comics. It does differ from whats already been established by other comics, so heres whats presented in CA5, as far as Buckys death is concerned. 

CA5 3-FB pg4 
Cap & Bucky in army fatigues are patrolling the facility housing the drone plane. Theyre ambushed by Zemos men, then taunted by Zemo. 

CA5 4-FB pg13pn3-pg13pn4 
Zemo tortures Bucky while Cap watches, chained. 

CA5 4-FB pg15pn2-pg15pn3 
Zemo threatens to cut out Buckys eyes. 

CA5 4-FB pg16pn2 
Cap tells Zemo to get away from Bucky. 

CA5 4-FB pg16pn4 
Zemo laughs. 

CA5 4-FB pg17pn2 
Cap yells at Zemo. 

CA5 4-FB pg17pn4 
One of Zemos men hits Cap in the face with a gun. 

CA5 6-FB pg5pn3 
Cap sees a ghost image of himself & Bucky chasing the drone plane on a motorcycle. 

CA5 6-FB pg6pn5-pg6pn6 
Cap sees a ghost image of CA5 4-FB pg16pn2 & pg16pn4, repeated information. 

CA5 6-FB pg6-pg8 
Cap fights ghost image Nazis & sees a ghost image Zemo. 

CA5 6-FB pg9pn4 
Cap sees a ghost image of himself & Bucky chasing the drone plane on a motorcycle, from a different angle. 

CA5 6-FB pg9pn5-pg10 
Cap & Bucky jump off the motorcycle onto the drone plane. Cap falls off, but Bucky is stuck. As he falls, Cap watches the plane explode. 

CA5 11-FB-FB pg3pn4 
Bucky falls from the exploding drone plane. 

In CA5 2, Steve has a dream where Buckys shot in the gut and dies. He wakes up and immediately disregards it, because Bucky never got shot in the belly. 

In CA5 3, after remembering Zemo ambushing them, Steve thinks to himself Thats not how it happened. Thats not how Zemo captured us. 

In CA5 4, while fighting Crossbones, Cap remembers Zemo torturing Bucky. During the fight and memories, Steve thinks to himself Someones getting inside my head & Thats not how it happened 

In CA5 6, while walking around the castle in the English Channel, Steve thinks various thoughts: 

So many conflicting reports about that day so many false details leaked for top secret reasons. Some say it all took place in England. One report I read claimed we were brought to Newfoundland. 

As mentioned above, only Cap went to Newfoundland. So Steve is right here, that report is wrong 

All I know for sure is, these new memories that have been surfacing -- memories of Zemo capturing us, torturing Bucky They feel far too real. Like somethings unlocking the part of my brain where theyve hidden all this time and forcing me to acknowledge them. 

This island is only in one report about that day. The one prepared for President Roosevelt. This was a Nazi base between occupied France and Allied Britain When Zemo captured us in England, he and his men brought us here. Held us captive while they analyzed the allied drone plane theyd stolen. 

The problem with this is, its been established in CA: SL2 7/2 & SAGAHT 2 that FDR died before Cap & Bucky did, and they both knew that FDR was dead. So why would a report be prepared for someone whos already dead? Maybe he meant Truman 

All of this  these unlocked memories, the strange dreams, and now these vanishing Nazis  its all the cube. It has to be. Whoevers got it, Lukin or whoever else theyre manipulating me. 

What does this mean? Is it even real? Are any of these memories real?... But maybe its(the cosmic cube) just powerful enough to unlock these memories inside me 

So it seems that the cosmic cube is responsible for Steves new memories. But, as asked, are they real? 

As shown in A 56-FB & CA: SL2 12, Cap & Bucky attacked Zemo in costume. As shown here, they were ambushed while wearing army fatigues. The problem is, A 56-FB was seen through time travel, not in memories or while reading a report. The Avengers traveled back in time to watch the events as they happened. That cant really be chalked up to a false detail in a report. CA: SL2 12 expanded on the A 56-FB. 

CA5 6-FB pg9pn5-pg10 & CA5 11-FB-FB work just fine with established events. The rest Zemo had already tied Cap & Bucky to the plane before the time traveling Avengers appeared in A 56-FB, so we can't use the alternate time line card, which leaves nowhere for the torture scenes to fit. And the ambush doesnt jive with anything. 

So do we chalk CA5 3-FB & CA5 4-FBs up to the cosmic cube screwing with Steve? Because I dont see any way to make these new FBs fit without tossing out A 56-FB & CA: SL2 12. 

Any thoughts?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2006 12:26 am    
By Somebody

Well, here's the writer's intent (I know I mentioned it before, but didn't have a link then): http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=2578559&postcount=27 and http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=2127544&postcount=126 

Whatever you accept beyond that... well, I haven't read most of this stuff (altho Cap220 sounds horrid... aren't "recovered memories" usually false when really powerful objects aren't involved?)

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2006 12:55 am    
By JLH

Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
The problem with this is, its been established in CA: SL2 7/2 & SAGAHT 2 that FDR died before Cap & Bucky did, and they both knew that FDR was dead. So why would a report be prepared for someone whos already dead? Maybe he meant Truman 
<<<

...Oh, now I SO want to read a "Zombie FDR" mini-series.

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2006 01:01 am    
By Col_Fury

Thanks for the links. 

The intent seems pretty clear: Toss out A 56-FB & CA:SL2 12. 

The problem is, he's trying to chalk those comics up to false details in reports. But A 56 wasn't presented as 'Cap remembering when Bucky died,' it showed the Avengers traveling back in time and watching it unfold before them. As I understand it, what's actually in the stories take priority over creator's, or editor's, intent. And what we have are two stories that conflict with each other. 

I suppose they could have traveled back to the wrong time line on accident, or something. But where would that leave CA: SL2 12? 

Here's a thought: In A 56 Zemo had already tied Cap & Bucky to the drone plane when the Avengers 'arrived.' They altered the time line when they appeared, so everything shown after A 56 pg12 is a different history. In the 'real' history, after tying them to the plane, Zemo transported Cap, Bucky, & the plane to his island and started to torture them. This would leave CA: SL2 12 alone, keep as much of A 56 as possible, and keep the new sequences shown in CA5. 

But I still can't reconcile the 'attack on Zemo'/'ambushed by Zemo' discrepancy.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2006 12:39 pm    
By Col_Fury

This is what it would look like if we disregard A 56 after pg12, which is the only way I can see to fit in the torture sequence. The time traveling Avengers would have altered history in this case, because they distracted Zemo from torturing our heroes, and forced him to launch the drone plane from England, instead of his secret island base as planned. 

As for the ambush/attack Zemo diffference, well, if we're going to toss out some Roy Thomas stuff, it's only fair to exclude some Ed Brubaker stuff, right? So out goes a portion of A 56, and out goes a portion of CA5. 

CA5 6-FB pg10pn2 repeats the picture & dialogue from A 4-FB pg7pn3, so that panel is not included. 

Captain America/ Steven Rogers 
... 
CA:SL2 12 pg1-pg4, pg8, pg9pn2 
A 56-FB pg8pn3 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn1 
A 56-FB pg8pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn2-pg16 
A 56-FB pg9-pg10pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg21-pg22 
A 56-FB pg10pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn1-pg30pn2 
A 56-FB pg10pn3-pg10pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn3-pg30pn5 
A 56-FB pg11-pg12pn2 
CA5 4-FB pg13pn3-pg13pn4 
CA5 4-FB pg15pn2-pg15pn3 
CA5 4-FB pg16pn2 
CA5 4-FB pg16pn4 
CA5 4-FB pg17pn2 
CA5 4-FB pg17pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg34-pg37pn2 
A 4-FB pg7pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg37pn3-pg37pn7 
CA5 6-FB pg9pn5 
CA:SL2 12 pg38pn1 
A 4-FB pg7pn2 
CA5 6-FB pg9pn6 
CA:SL2 12 pg38pn2-pg38pn7 
CA5 6-FB pg10pn1 
A 4-FB pg7pn3 
CA5 6-FB pg10pn3-pg10pn6 
CA 220-FB pg5pn3 
A 4-FB pg7pn4-pg7pn5 
CA 220-FB pg5pn4-pg10 
 

Bucky/James Buchanan Bucky Barnes 
... 
CA:SL2 12 pg1-pg4, pg8, pg9pn2 
A 56-FB pg8pn3 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn1 
A 56-FB pg8pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn2-pg16 
A 56-FB pg9-pg10pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg21-pg22 
A 56-FB pg10pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn1-pg30pn2 
A 56-FB pg10pn3-pg10pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn3-pg30pn5 
A 56-FB pg11-pg12pn2 
CA5 4-FB pg13pn3-pg13pn4 
CA5 4-FB pg15pn2-pg15pn3 
CA5 4-FB pg16pn2 
CA5 4-FB pg16pn4 
CA5 4-FB pg17pn2 
CA5 4-FB pg17pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg34-pg37pn2 
A 4-FB pg7pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg37pn3-pg37pn7 
CA5 6-FB pg9pn5 
CA:SL2 12 pg38pn1 
A 4-FB pg7pn2 
CA5 6-FB pg9pn6 
CA:SL2 12 pg38pn2-pg38pn7 
CA5 6-FB pg10pn1 
A 4-FB pg7pn3 
CA5 6-FB pg10pn3-pg10pn6 
CA 220-FB pg5pn3 
A 4-FB pg7pn4 
CA5 11-FB-FB pg3pn4 
 

Zemo/Baron Heinrich Zemo 
... 
A 56-FB pg7 
CA:SL2 12 pg8 
A 56-FB pg8pn1-pg8pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg9pn2 
A 56-FB pg8pn3 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn1 
A 56-FB pg8pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg15pn2-pg16 
A 56-FB pg9-pg10pn1 
CA:SL2 12 pg21-pg22 
A 56-FB pg10pn2 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn1-pg30pn2 
A 56-FB pg10pn3-pg10pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg30pn3-pg30pn5 
A 56-FB pg11-pg12pn2 
CA5 4-FB pg13pn3-pg13pn4 
CA5 4-FB pg15pn2-pg15pn3 
CA5 4-FB pg16pn2 
CA5 4-FB pg16pn4 
CA5 4-FB pg17pn2 
CA5 4-FB pg17pn4 
CA:SL2 12 pg34-pg36pn2 
A 4-FB 
... 

Any thoughts?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Sep 2006 12:49 pm    
By John Simons

As if this weren't all confusing enough already, keep in mind that Cap was plagued by all sorts of false memories of this time period during his previous (Marvel Knights) series. He was forced to take some weird peyote-like stuff by Redwind (I believe that was his name) and throughout the rest of that run he kept having visions that suggested Zemo had nothing to do with his being frozen and it was really the work of the US government, who feared Cap would interfere with the bombing of Hiroshima. 

It seems that everyone has written off these visions as false, a retcon that didn't "take", but as far as I'm aware they were never actually debunked in the comics themselves. After Morales took over the title I think the whole plotline was dropped and never referred to again. 

So within the continuity there is precedent for Cap not being reliable as far as his memories of this time period.
_________________
"Jessica, whatever you do...don't contradict the continuity! They'll eat you alive! They'll. Eat. You. Alive!"

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Sep 2006 02:46 am    
By Col_Fury

Oops... thought I already responded to this. 
John Simons wrote: 
It seems that everyone has written off these visions as false, a retcon that didn't "take", but as far as I'm aware they were never actually debunked in the comics themselves.  

I think that CA5 6 reinforced that it was Zemo, and not the US Government, that caused Cap's deep freeze. So that, at least, is a plus. In many ways. 
John Simons wrote: 
So within the continuity there is precedent for Cap not being reliable as far as his memories of this time period. 

Sure, Steve's post-thaw memory has never been the best. However, A 56 shows him traveling back in time to witness the events. That can't really be chalked up to remebering it wrong, because in that case, he's not remebering anything; He's watching it happen. But I do think we have an 'out' with him altering the past, as far as the torture scenes. And of course, he wouldn't have remembered that part, because in the past he traveled to, it didn't happen, he altered it. And it wouldn't have been in any reports he could have read, because no one would have been there to report the torture.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Thread 10

Posted: 18 Sep 2006 02:34 am    Post subject: Defenders 98
By cnowlin

It seems to me that Avengers 211 and Defenders 98 are misplaced as 211 introduces a new lineup, while Defenders reflects the old one. Perhaps Def 98 could be moved before A 210. The issue is in Cap, Beast, Iron Man and Wonder Man's chronologies.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Sep 2006 06:02 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Good call. 

The sequence in the MCP chronologies is from the Official Marvel Index to the Avengers, vol. 2 #4. In the entry for A 211, Cap and Iron Man are noted as appearing next in DEF 98-100. Their sequence of appearances following DEF 98-100 includes M/GN 1. However, M/GN 1 is noted as the next appearance of Beast and Wonder Man following A 211. This must be an oversight in the Index, as Beast and Wonder Man clearly appear with Cap and Shellhead in DEF 98. You might argue that the oversight opens the door for placing DEF 98-100 before A 211, or you might argue that the Cap and Iron man chronologies are correct and that Hank and Simon happened to be visiting Avengers Mansion to appear in DEF 98.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 11

Posted: 21 Sep 2006 07:33 pm    Post subject: Invaders in Marvels #1
By Col_Fury

Marvels #1(pg44-pg45) has an appearance by the Invaders & friends storming a European castle. Clockwise from left, the characters shown are: Bucky, Captain America, Sub-Mariner, Vision, Destroyer, Black Widow, Black Avenger, Blazing Skull, Black Marvel, Human Torch, & Toro. 

The Golden Age handbook 2004 places this shortly after the events in Invaders vol2, which I agree with. So, here are some suggestions: 

Captain America/ Steven Rogers 
 
INV2 4 
*MARVELS 1 
CA '98-FB 
 

Bucky/James Buchanan Bucky Barnes 
 
INV2 1-FB 
*MARVELS 1 
CA '98-FB 
 

VISION/AARKUS 
 
INV2 4 
*MARVELS 1 
 

DESTROYER II/ROGER AUBREY 
 
INV 34 
*MARVELS 1 
CV 1-FB 
 

BLACK AVENGER/JERRY CARSTAIRS 
*MARVELS 1 
ALL WINNERS 6 
CA 442 

BLAZING SKULL/MARK ANTHONY TODD/STEVE VALIANT/RICHARD STETSON 
 
INV2 4 
*MARVELS 1 
MSU 9 
 



SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE 
 
INV2 4 
*MARVELS 1 pg44-pg45 
CA:SL2 2-FB 
 

HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
 
INV2 4 
*MARVELS 1 pg44-pg45 
CA:SL2 2-FB 
 

TORO/TOM RAYMOND 
 
INV2 1-FB 
*MARVELS 1 
CA5 5-FB (11/42) 
 

Human Torch & Namor get a page listing, because they appeared elsewhere in Marvels #1. Cap does not, because he only appeared in newspapers that duplicate other newspapers seen earlier in other comics. 

Black Widow & Black Marvel already have appearances for Marvels 1 in their chronologies. 

Casey appears alongside Phil Sheldon in Marvels #1, just before we see the Invaders storming the castle. Casey has appeared previously in Human Torch 5B, giving him appearances in two different books. As far as I know, these are his only two appearances, but does that qualify him for a listing? Theres been no surname given for him 

If he does get one, his listing would look like this: 

Casey 
HUMAN TORCH 5B 
MARVELS 1
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Sep 2006 05:10 pm    
By Enda80

Some have suggested that Casey represents Flashgun Jack Casey, created by George Harmon Coxe, who also had an Atlas title.

			*	*	*

Thread 12

Posted: 23 Sep 2006 01:29 am    Post subject: Midnight Sons Unlimited #9
By Col_Fury

The Destroyer II appears in Midnight Sons Unlimited #9, but it's not currently listed in his chronology. It's pretty specific that it's Roger Aubrey, because when Union Jack calls him, they use code names like 'School Chum' & 'Polo Partner.' 

Also, the issue is noted as happening in 'January, 1945.' 

A placement suggestion: 

DESTROYER II/ROGER AUBREY 
... 
INV 34 
MARVELS 1 
*MSU 9 (01/45) 
CV 1-FB 
...
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2006 12:22 pm    
By Enda80

Incidentally, a while ago, someone noted that a Sgt. 
Fury story in 117 or so showed Germany bombing Britain 
at a point which seemed too late in the conflict 
(after D-Day). So, it was postulated that this could 
serve as a the last valiant effort of a scientist 
(such as Zemo). Well, Midnight Suns Unlimited#9's 
Blazing Skull story where Germany has developed the 
Vergel: Tungswaffe Dei: The V-3, a weapon they use 
after January 1945 to resume the attack on Britain affords 
us cover for any story where London bombings follow 
D-Day. 

By the way, a possible error in this story; reference 
is made to Roxxon existing in the 1940's, but Iron Age 
indicates the company did not assume that name till 
the modern era. 

http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1184&highlight=blazing+skull

			*	*	*

Thread 13

Posted: 10 Jul 2006 08:29 pm    Post subject: Inferno chronology
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Another Jim C. request, this time for Inferno. Again, I haven't reviewed this material for years so feel free to comment on anything that's incorrect. 


WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #45 (flashback) 
(one day; perhaps Thursday, March 25) 
Vulture (as Adrian Toomes), Snake Diamond 

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #44 
(perhaps day after SSM 145; Peter must be on the same book tour as shown in SSM 145, since a full moon is present in both SSM 144 and WOSM 45; perhaps Thursday, March 25) 
Spider-Man, Hulk (as Joe Fixit), Warzone, 

INCREDIBLE HULK II #349 
(same day as WOSM 44?; perhaps Thursday, March 25) 
Hulk (as Joe Fixit), Spider-Man, Warzone, Dr. Doom, 

FANTASTIC FOUR #320 (beginning) 
(same night as IH 349; perhaps Thursday, March 25) 
Hulk (as Joe Fixit), Dr. Doom 

MIGHTY THOR #394 (pages 6-9) 
(one day; probably a couple of days after MT 394 pg. 1-5; perhaps fourth week of March) 
Madelyn Arnstein, Dr. Graham 

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #45 
(day after IH 349; probably morning after WOSM 45 FB; perhaps Friday, March 26) 
Spider-Man, Sara Glenville, Sholly, Harry, Lenny, Danny, Snake Diamond, Vulture 

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #46 
(probably same day as WOSM 45 and next day; must be after WCA 36; full moon; perhaps Friday and Saturday, March 26 and 27) 
Spider-Man, Wonder Man (as Simon Williams), Vision II, Scarlet Witch (as Wanda Maximoff), Giant-Man (as Dr. Pym), Rover, Jeff Wainwright, Jeanette Latour, Carolyn, Katie, Don, Evie, Brother Noone, Nekra, [Ms. Hatros] 

MIGHTY THOR #394 (page 11, panel 1-page 12, panel 2) 
(one day; probably a day or two after MT 394 pg. 10; perhaps late March) 
Madelyn Arnstein 

DAREDEVIL #259 
(one day; not long after DD 249; green trees and light clothing indicate warm weather; perhaps Saturday, March 27) 
Daredevil, Karen Page, Butch, Sheila, Joe, Lance, Bullet, Bushwacker, Ammo, Jet, Spit, Typhoid, Kingpin 

DAREDEVIL #260 
(day after DD 259; the references to "the fourth of July" may actually be topical references -- the patriotic parade shown here may mark a different occasion -- the closest occasion would be the anniversary of the end of the Civil War: April 9; perhaps Sunday, March 28) 
Daredevil, Karen Page, Human Torch II, Bullet, Bushwacker, Ammo, Jet, Spit, Typhoid 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #311 
(one evening and next day; must be after WOSM 46; the effects of Inferno are already seen in New York, including the transformed Empire State Building on the night of the second day; full moon; perhaps Sunday and Monday, March 28 and 29) 
Spider-Man, Mary Jane Watson (Parker), Evan Swann, Anne-Marie Baker, Lizard (as Curt Connors), Green Goblin II (as Harry Osborn), Norman Osborn II, Hal, Peanuts Mulroony, Mysterio, Hobgoblin IV 

DAREDEVIL #261 
(probably day after DD 260; it is unbearably hot in New York -- this must be a freak heatwave; perhaps Monday, March 29) 
Daredevil, Karen Page, Eightball, Darla, Ralf, Human Torch II, Baby Elmo, Typhoid, Kingpin 

STRANGE TALES II #19 (1st story: beginning) 
(one day; since Ben Grimm is mutated, this story must occur after FF 312 end; green grass and trees and baseball game on radio may be references to the beginning of the baseball season; perhaps late March) 
Mayhem, Thing, George Petrovic, Officer Antonovitcz, Lucas Cleary, Emma Mazzilli, George Strunk, [Mr. Fantastic] 

MIGHTY THOR #394 (page 12, panel 3-page 17, panel 1) 
(one day; "a week" after MT 394 pg. 1-5; perhaps late March) 
Madelyn Arnstein, Harris Hobbs 

CAPTAIN AMERICA #348 (beginning) 
(one day; "a while" after CA 322; Cap may have been incarcerated by the Commission for several weeks -- in fact, he says that he was locked up for "weeks" in CA 349; narrative's reference to "late summer" must be topical; the president's reference to stepping down "in January" must indicate that this story takes place during an election year; perhaps Tuesday, March 30) 
Captain America (as Captain), U.S.Agent (as Captain America VI), Battle Star, Valerie Cooper, Raymond Sikorski, Henry Peter Gyrich, Douglas Rockwell, Vladimir Krantz, Flag-Smasher, Ultimatum, Red Skull (as Mr. Smith) 

EXCALIBUR #4 (beginning) 
(one night; perhaps Tuesday, March 30) 
Courtney Ross, Executioner II, Jester II, Knave, Tweedle-Dope, Red Queen, Miss Locke, Arcade 

CODE OF HONOR #4 (pages 25-33) 
(probably same night as Exc 4 beg; it is a hot night during Inferno, so Matt may appear here between DD 261 and 262; perhaps Tuesday, March 30) 
Daredevil, Jeff Piper, Janet Piper, Michael Piper, Ann Coyle, Mrs. Piper 

NEW MUTANTS #67 
(one night; shortly after NM Ann 4; sometime after SB 4; perhaps Tuesday, March 30) 
Magneto (as Magnus), Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Lila Cheney, Gosamyr, Karen, Spyder, [White Queen III] 

NEW MUTANTS #68 
(same night as NM 67 and early next morning; "a couple of years" after MGN 1; perhaps Tuesday and Wednesday, March 30-31) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Lila Cheney, Gosamyr, Admiral Dupen'th, Spyder 

SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #146 (beginning) 
(day after ASM 311 end and next day; full moon; perhaps Tuesday and Wednesday, March 30-31) 
Spider-Man, Mary Jane Watson (Parker), Kristy Watson, J. Jonah Jameson, Joe Robertson, Martha Robertson, Green Goblin II (as Harry Osborn), Liz Allan (Osborn), Norman Osborn II, Ben Urich, Kate Cushing, Joy Mercado, Glory Grant, Frank Farrow, Hobgoblin IV, Arranger, Eduardo Lobo, [Carlos Lobo] 

CAPTAIN AMERICA #348 (end) 
(morning after CA 348 beg; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Captain America (as Captain), Douglas Rockwell 

NEW MUTANTS #69 
(same morning as NM 68 end; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Magneto, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Lila Cheney, Gosamyr, Admiral Dupen'th, White Queen III, Spyder 

NEW MUTANTS #70 
(same day as NM 69; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Magneto, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Lila Cheney, Gosamyr, White Queen III, Black Queen, Black King, Spyder, S'ym 

CODE OF HONOR #4 (page 34) 
(day after COH 4 pg. 25-33; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Jeff Piper, Janet Piper 

AVENGERS ANNUAL #17 (1st story: beginning) 
(must be same day as CA 348 end; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Jocasta 

MIGHTY THOR #394 (page 17, panel 2-page 23, panel 6) 
(one rainy day; "three days" after MT 394 pg. 12-17; perhaps beginning of April) 
Jane Foster, Keith Kincaid, Jimmy Kincaid, Madelyn Arnstein 

EXCALIBUR #4 (middle) 
(day after Exc 4 beg; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler (as Kurt Wagner), Shadowcat (as Kitty Pryde), Phoenix III (as Rachel Summers), Widget, Courtney Ross, Moira MacTaggert, Callisto, Miss Locke, Arcade 

FANTASTIC FOUR #320 (end) 
(must be same day as CA 348 end; shortly after FF 320 beg; probably after DD 261; it seems that the FF have just returned from the sojourn that ended in FF 319, but some time has probably passed since then and they are recapping their adventure; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Thing, Human Torch II, Ms. Marvel II, Lyja (as Alicia Storm Imposter), Hulk (as Joe Fixit), Hulk Robot, Dr. Doom 

INCREDIBLE HULK II #350 
(same day as FF 320 end and Av Ann 17 beg; several years after Et 14-15; full moon; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Hulk (as Joe Fixit), Thing, Beast, Hulk Robot, Dr. Doom 

AVENGERS #298 
(same day as CA 348 end; "the relentless heat" is the result of Inferno; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Captain America (as Captain), Edwin Jarvis, Spider-Man (as Peter Parker), Mrs. Jarvis, Glory Garsen 

DAREDEVIL #262 
(must be same day as Av 298, FF 321 and SSM 146; the "heatwave" is the result of Inferno; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Daredevil, Karen Page, Black Widow II, Butch, Darla, Typhoid 

AVENGERS ANNUAL #17 (1st story: end) 
(same day as Av 298, Av Ann 17 beg and IH 350; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Captain America (as Captain), Falcon, Hercules, Beast, Hulk, Jocasta, Yellowjacket II, Civit, Reynardo, Attuma, Kro, High Evolutionary 

NEW MUTANTS #71 (pages 1-12) 
(probably same day as NM 70; after this segment, the New Mutants probably spend the next day traveling through different dimensions via Illyana's stepping discs, or simply travel ahead in time one day via a disc jump; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Magneto, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, S'ym, N'Astirh 

X-TERMINATORS #1 (end) 
(one day; "seven days" after XT 1 mid; full moon; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid (as Taki Matsuya), Lynne Huntington, Muffy, Sam, Crotus 

X-FACTOR #33 (end) 
(must be same night as XT 1 end; it appears as though this segment occurs the same day as XF 33 beg, but this is not possible given the chronology of XT 1; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Archangel, Cameron Hodge 

X-FACTOR #34 (page 1-page 9, panel 3) 
(same night as XF 33 end; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Archangel, Candy Southern, Nanny, Orphan-Maker, N'Astirh, Cameron Hodge, Right 

X-TERMINATORS #2 (page 1) 
(same night as XT 1 end and XF 34 pg. 1-9; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Artie Maddicks, Leech, Crotus 

X-FACTOR #34 (page 9, panels 4-6)/X-TERMINATORS #2 (page 2, panel 1) 
(same night as XT 2 pg. 1; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Crotus, N'Astirh, Cameron Hodge, [Artie Maddicks], [Leech] 

X-FACTOR #34 (page 10) 
(same night as XF 34 pg. 9; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Archangel, Candy Southern, Cameron Hodge 

X-TERMINATORS #2 (page 2, panel 2-page 10, panel 6) 
(same night as XF 34 pg. 10; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Rusty Collins, Skids (as Sally Blevins), Rictor, Meltdown II (as Tabitha Smith), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid (as Taki Matsuya), Crotus, N'Astirh 

FANTASTIC FOUR #321 (including flashback) 
(same night as IH 350; full moon; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Thing, Human Torch II, Ms. Marvel II, She-Hulk, Lyja (as Alicia Storm Imposter), Dragon Man, Aron 

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #47 (beginning) 
(same night as SSM 146 beg end; must be same night as FF 321; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Spider-Man, Hobgoblin IV 

CAPTAIN AMERICA #349 (beginning) 
(same night as Av Ann 17; probably not "a few days" after CA 348 beg, but rather the day after; full moon; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Captain America (as Captain), Demolition-Man, Battle Star, [Falcon], [Beast], [Yellowjacket II] 

UNCANNY X-MEN #239 
(same night as XT 2 pg. 2-10; the "unseasonable heatwave" is the result of Inferno; the narrative's reference to "Saturday" may be topical; perhaps Wednesday, March 31) 
Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler II, Havok, Goblin Queen (as Madelyne Pryor-Summers), Gateway, Polaris, Nathan Summers, Malice IV, Mr. Sinister, N'Astirh 

UNCANNY X-MEN #240 
(same night as UX 239 and into early next morning; full moon; perhaps Wednesday and Thursday, March 31-April 1) 
Storm, Colossus III, Wolverine, Rogue, Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler II, Havok, Gateway, Polaris, John Grey, Elaine Grey, Dr. Martin, Dr. Snodgrass, Sabretooth, Scalphunter, Scrambler, Arclight, Harpoon, Riptide, Prism, Blockbuster III, Vertigo II, Malice IV, Goblin Queen, Mr. Sinister, N'Astirh 

UNCANNY X-MEN #241 (beginning) 
(same early morning as UX 240 end; after Illyana overthrown in NM 71 pg. 1-12; full moon; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Storm, Colossus III, Wolverine, Rogue, Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler II, Havok, Polaris, Scalphunter, Harpoon, Riptide, Prism, Vertigo II, Malice IV, Goblin Queen, Mr. Sinister, N'Astirh 

SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #146 (end) 
(early morning after SSM 146 beg end; full moon; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Green Goblin II (as Harry Osborn), Liz Allan (Osborn) 

X-FACTOR #34 (pages 11-22) 
(early morning after XT 2 pg. 2-10 and Av Ann 17, from which Hank has not yet returned; Jean and Ship's references to dropping off the kids at school cannot be a reference to the event in XT 1 mid, but rather to an undocumented event in which Jean and Bobby return the kids to school after a short visit with X-Factor; UX 306 FB beg shows another view of the last scene in this issue; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Archangel, Ship, Candy Southern, Cameron Hodge, Right 

NEW MUTANTS #71 (page 16, panel 1-page 18, panel 3) 
(probably morning after NM 71 pg. 1-12; before NM 71 pg. 13-15; the New Mutants have probably transported ahead a day or have spent a day jaunting around via Illyana's stepping discs; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, Crotus, N'Astirh 

X-TERMINATORS #2 (pages 11-22) 
(same morning as XF 34 pg. 11-22; "hot and humid" because of Inferno; reference to "barely June" may be topical and perhaps should read barely April; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Tim, Helen, Timmy, Russel, Jermaine, Crotus, N'Astirh 

X-FACTOR #35 
(same morning as XT 2 pg. 11-22, XF 34 pg. 11-22, and UX 240 end; the reference to the "dog days of summer" must be a topical reference to the not weather of Inferno; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Nathan Summers, Shatter-Box, Speedfreak, Big Top, Bonzo, Nanny, Orphan-Maker 

X-FACTOR #36 (pages 1-16) 
(same morning as XF 35; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, Candy Southern, Trish Tilby, Nathan Summers, Rick, Subway-Worm, Goblin Queen, Cameron Hodge, Crotus, N'Astirh 

EXCALIBUR #4 (end) 
(same morning as XF 35; morning after Exc 4 mid; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Phoenix III, Courtney Ross, Executioner II, Jester II, Knave, Tweedle-Dope, Red Queen, Miss Locke, Arcade, [Nathan Summers] 

FANTASTIC FOUR #322 
(morning after FF 321; the heat is from Inferno; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Thing, Human Torch II, Ms. Marvel II, Lyja (as Alicia Storm Imposter), Dragon Man, Graviton, Aron 

CAPTAIN AMERICA #349 (end) 
(day after CA 349 beg; 42 to "48" hours after CA 348 beg; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain America (as Captain), Demolition-Man, U.S.Agent (as Captain America VI), Battle Star, Flag-Smasher, Ultimatum 

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #47 (middle) 
(same morning as SSM 146 end; morning after WOSM 47 beg; day after Glory met Eduardo; "week" after SSM 145; the Osborns' pool is full, but covered; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Spider-Man, Mary Jane Watson (Parker), May Parker, Ben Urich, Glory Grant, Joy Mercado, Kristy Watson, Green Goblin II (as Harry Osborn), Liz Allen (Osborn), Norman Osborn II, Nathan Lubensky, Victor Palermo, Harriet Palermo, Sophie, Martha, Eduardo Lobo, Hobgoblin IV 

EXCALIBUR #5 
(same day as Exc 4; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Phoenix III, Lockheed, Courtney Ross, Dai Thomas, Steve, Adam, Nikki Falcon, Executioner II, Jester II, Knave, Tweedle-Dope, Red Queen, Mr. Chambers, Miss Locke, Arcade, Opul Lun Sat-Yr9 

DOCTOR STRANGE, SORCERER SUPREME #1 
(one day?; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Dr. Strange II, Wong, Sara Wolfe, Dormammu, 

DOCTOR STRANGE, SORCERER SUPREME #2 
(same day as DSSS 1; during Inferno; green grass and trees in NYC; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Dr. Strange II, Clea, Wong, Sara Wolfe, Topaz, Dormammu 

POWER PACK #42 (pages 1-15) 
(must be same afternoon as WOSM 47 mid; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Powerhouse II (as Alex Power), Lightspeed (as Julie Power), Destroyer III (as Jack Power), Counterweight II (as Katie Power), James Power, Margaret Power, Bogeyman, N'Astirh 

X-TERMINATORS #3 (pages 1-10) 
(same day as XF 36 pg. 1-16 and XT 2 pg. 11-22; a day that the New York Public Library is open; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Crotus, N'Astirh 

NEW MUTANTS #71 (page 18, panel 4-page 19, panel 2) 
(same day as XT 3 pg. 1-10 and NM 71 pg. 16-18; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Cannonball II, Sunspot, Magik, Gosamyr, S'ym, [Moonstar (as Mirage III)], [Wolfsbane], [Warlock II] 

X-TERMINATORS #3 (pages 11-18) 
(same day as NM 71 pg. 18-19; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, S'ym, N'Astirh 

NEW MUTANTS #71 (pages 13-15) 
(same day as XT 3 pg. 11-18; after NM 71 pg. 16-18; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Magneto, Artie Maddicks, Leech, White Queen III, Black Queen, Black King, N'Astirh 

X-TERMINATORS #3 (page 19, panel 1-page 27, panel 1) 
(same day as NM 71 pg. 13-15 and XF 36 pg. 1-16; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Nathan Summers, N'Astirh 

NEW MUTANTS #71 (page 19, panel 3-page 20, panel 4) 
(same day as XT 3 pg. 19-27; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Magik, S'ym, [Moonstar (as Mirage III)], [Cannonball II], [Sunspot], [Wolfsbane], [Warlock II], [Gosamyr] 

X-TERMINATORS #3 (page 27, panel 2-page 28, panel 2) 
(same day as NM 71 pg. 19-20; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Wiz Kid, N'Astirh, [Magik] 

X-TERMINATORS #4 (pages 1-3) 
(same day as XT 3 pg. 27-28; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Crotus, N'Astirh 

POWER PACK #42 (pages 16-17, panels 1-2) 
(same day as XT 4 pg. 1-3; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
[Moonstar (as Mirage III)], [Cannonball II], [Sunspot], [Wolfsbane], [Magik], [Warlock II], [Gosamyr], [S'ym] 

NEW MUTANTS #71 (page 21, panel 1-page 22, panel 1) 
(same day as PP 42 pg. 16-17, pn. 1-2; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, [S'ym] 

X-TERMINATORS #4 (page 4, panel 1) 
(same day as NM 71 pg. 21-22; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, [S'ym] 

POWER PACK #42 (pages 16-17, panel 3) 
(same day as XT 4 pg. 4, pn. 1; "dusk"; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, S'ym 

AVENGERS #299 (beginning) 
(same night as PP 42 pg. 16-17, pn. 3 and CA 349 end; "a day or so" after Av 298; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain America (as Captain), Mr. Fantastic (as Reed Richards), Invisible Woman (as Sue Richards), Gilgamesh, Tattletale (as Franklin Richards), Thena, Sprite, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, [Gosamyr] 

X-TERMINATORS #4 (page 4, panel 2-page 6, panel 4) 
(same night as Av 299 beg; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Crotus, N'Astirh, [Moonstar (as Mirage III)], [Cannonball II], [Sunspot], [Wolfsbane], [Magik], [Warlock II], [Gosamyr] 

NEW MUTANTS #71 (page 22, panels 2-4) 
(same night as XT 4 pg. 4-6; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Magik, N'Astirh 

FANTASTIC FOUR #324 (flashback: page 10, panel 4) 
(same night as NM 71 pg. 22; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Necrodamus 

EXCALIBUR #6 (beginning) 
(same night as Exc 5; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain Britain (as Brian Braddock), Meggan, Nightcrawler (as Kurt Wagner), Shadowcat (as Kitty Pryde), Phoenix III, Lockheed, Dai Thomas, Alistaire Stuart, Caledonia (as Alysande Stuart), Moira MacTaggert of True Briton, Callisto of True Briton, [Nathan Summers] 

AVENGERS #299 (end) 
(same night as Av 299 beg; after XF 35; full moon; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain America (as Captain), Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Gilgamesh, Tattletale (as Franklin Richards), Thena, Sprite, Nanny, Orphan-Maker 

MIGHTY THOR #400 (1st story: end) 
(one day; "sometime" shortly after MT 400 1st beg; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Thor, Odin, Hogun, Vizier, Black Knight III, Earth-Lord, Skyhawk, Wind Warrior, Isis, Osiris, Horus, Marge Brock 

AVENGERS #300 (1st story: page 1-page 24, panel 3) 
(same night as Av 299 end, MT 400 1st end, and FF 323; before XT 4 pg. 24-27; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain America (as Captain), Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Gilgamesh, Thor, Black Knight III, Tattletale (as Franklin Richards), Kang Doppelganger, Growing Man, Nanny, Orphan-Maker, Goblin Queen, Klytus, S'ym, N'Astirh 

FANTASTIC FOUR #323 (beginning) 
(same night as FF 322; narrative's reference to "Halloween" must be topical -- it may instead be April Fool's Day; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Thing, Human Torch II, Ms. Marvel II, Mantis 

FANTASTIC FOUR #324 (flashback: page 10, panel 6) 
(same night as FF 323 beg; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Dragon Man, Necrodamus, Aron 

FANTASTIC FOUR #323 (middle) 
(same night as FF 324 FB pg. 10, pn. 6; before Av 300 1st pg. 1-24; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Thing, Human Torch II, Ms. Marvel II, Mantis, Dragon Man, Necrodamus, Kang, Aron, [Kang Doppelganger] 

FANTASTIC FOUR #324 (flashback: page 11) 
(same night as FF 323 mid; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Mantis, Necrodamus, Kang 

FANTASTIC FOUR #323 (end) 
(same night as FF 324 FB pg. 11; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Thing, Human Torch II, Ms. Marvel II, Kang 

FANTASTIC FOUR #324 (beginning) 
(same night as FF 323 end; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Thing, Human Torch II, Ms. Marvel II, Kang 

SILVER SURFER III #22 (beginning) 
(must be same night as FF 324 beg; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Silver Surfer, Ego 

NEW MUTANTS #72 (page 1-page 4, panel 1) 
(same night as NM 71 pg. 22, but "hours" later; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, N'Astirh 

X-TERMINATORS #4 (pages 7-9) 
(same night as NM 72 pg. 1-4; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Crotus, [Magik], [N'Astirh] 

NEW MUTANTS #72 (page 4, panel 2-page 5, panel 2) 
(same night as XT 4 pg. 7-9; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Magik, S'ym, N'Astirh 

X-TERMINATORS #4 (page 10, panel 1-page 14, panel 2) 
(same night as NM 72 pg. 4-5; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Crotus, S'ym, N'Astirh 

NEW MUTANTS #72 (page 5, panel 3-page 7, panel 2) 
(same night as XT 4 pg. 10-14; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, Wiz Kid, S'ym, N'Astirh, [Rusty Collins], [Skids], [Rictor], [Meltdown II (as Boom Boom)], [Artie Maddicks], [Leech] 

X-TERMINATORS #4 (page 14, panels 3-4) 
(same night as NM 72 pg. 5-7; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Wiz Kid, Crotus, S'ym, N'Astirh 

DAREDEVIL #265 (beginning) 
(must be same night as NM 72 pg. 1-4; references to "lunch" and "7 A.M." must be topical, as this story must occur after the demons descend on New York; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Daredevil, Butch, Darla, Rachel, Jack, Mac 

MUTANT MISADVENTURES OF CLOAK AND DAGGER #2 (end) 
(one night; this segment must occur months after MMOCAD 2 beg, not the same day as it might appear, since MMOCAD 4 ties into Inferno -- apparently Tandy still has not accepted her blindness and so therapy has yet to really begin; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Cloak, Dagger (as Tandy Bowen), Francis Delgado, Portal Keeper, Gromitz, Durbuur, Jophurg, Night, Mr. Jip 

AVENGERS #300 (1st story: page 24, panel 4-page 30, panel 6) 
(same night as Av 300 1st pg. 1-24; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain America (as Captain), Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Gilgamesh, Thor, Tattletale (as Franklin Richards), Growing Man 

NEW MUTANTS #72 (pages 8-9) 
(same night as XT 4 pg. 14; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Magik 

EXCALIBUR #6 (middle) 
(same night as Exc 6 beg -- four to five hours after; same night as, but after, NM 71 pg. 22; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Phoenix III, Goblin Queen 

AVENGERS #306 (flashback: end) 
(same night as Av 300 1st, probably between pgs. 30 and 31; N'Astirh is still green, so this flashback must occur before XT 4 pg. 24-27; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain America (as Captain), Mr. Fantastic, Gilgamesh, Thor, Jinku, Cha'sa'dra Demon, N'Astirh, Lava Men 

X-TERMINATORS #4 (pages 15-23) 
(same night as NM 72 pg. 8-9; NM 72 pg. 10 has an abbreviation version of part of this scene; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Warlock II, Gosamyr, S'ym, N'Astirh 

X-FACTOR #36 (pages 17-23) 
(same night as NM 72 and XT 4, but before XT 4 pg. 24-27; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, Trish Tilby 

NEW MUTANTS #72 (pages 11-17) 
(same night as XT 4 pg. 15-23; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, N'Astirh 

X-TERMINATORS #4 (pages 24-27) 
(same night as NM 72 pg. 11-17; NM 72 pg. 18 pn. 1-3 has an abbreviated version of part of this scene; N'Astirh turns red; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Wiz Kid, S'ym, N'Astirh 

NEW MUTANTS #72 (page 18, panels 4-5) 
(same night as XT 4 pg. 24-27; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Warlock II, Gosamyr 

AVENGERS #300 (1st story: page 31, panel 1-page 39, panel 1) 
(same night as NM 72 pg. 18, pn. 4-5; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Captain America (as Captain), Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Gilgamesh, Thor, Tattletale (as Franklin Richards), Growing Man 

X-TERMINATORS #4 (pages 28-29) 
(same night as Av 300 1st pg. 31-39; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Warlock II, Gosamyr, Nathan Summers, S'ym 

NEW MUTANTS #72 (page 19-23) 
(same night as XT 4 pg. 28-29; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Nathan Summers, S'ym, N'Astirh 

NEW MUTANTS #73 (beginning) 
(same night as NM 72 pg. 19-23; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), S'ym 

UNCANNY X-MEN #241 (end) 
(same night as UX 241 beg; after XT 4 pg. 24-27; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Nathan Summers, Goblin Queen, Mr. Sinister, N'Astirh 

X-FACTOR #37 (beginning) 
(same night as NM 73 beg and UX 241 end; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, Nathan Summers, John Grey, Elaine Grey, Goblin Queen, N'Astirh 

FANTASTIC FOUR #324 (middle) 
(same night as FF 324 beg; after XT 4 pg. 24-27; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Thing, Human Torch II, Ms. Marvel II, Mantis, Necrodamus, Kang, N'Astirh 

SILVER SURFER III #22 (end)/FANTASTIC FOUR #324 (end) 
(same night as FF 324 mid; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Silver Surfer 

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #47 (end) 
(same night as WOSM 47 mid; later the same night as NM 72 and XF 4; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
J. Jonah Jameson, Ben Urich, Green Goblin II (as Harry Osborn), [Liz Allen (Osborn)], [Norman Osborn II] 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #312 
(same night as WOSM 47 end; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Spider-Man, Green Goblin II, Hobgoblin IV, 

SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #147 
(same night as ASM 312 and WOSM 47 mid; day after SSM 146 end; because a barrier has been erected around New York City, then this issue must occur later the same night as xxxx; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Spider-Man, Mary Jane Watson (Parker), J. Jonah Jameson, Ben Urich, Lance Bannon, Kate Cushing, Joy Mercado, Joe Robertson, Martha Robertson, Randy Robertson, Amanda Robertson, Wexler, Green Goblin II, Hobgoblin IV, Demogoblin, N'Astirh 

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #48 
(same night as SSM 147; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Spider-Man, 

SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #148 (beginning) 
(same night as WOSM 48; before NM 73 end; "a few months" after SMVW 1; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Flash Thompson, Betty Brant (Leeds), Spider-Man Demon, Ned Leeds Demon 

POWER PACK #42 (pages 18-28) 
(same night as PP 42 pg. 16-17; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Powerhouse II (as Destroyer II), Lightspeed (as Molecula), Destroyer III (as Counterweight), Counterweight II (as Starstreak), James Power, Margaret Power, Bogeyman 

POWER PACK #43 
(same night as PP 42; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Powerhouse II (as Destroyer II), Lightspeed (as Molecula), Destroyer III (as Counterweight), Counterweight II (as Starstreak), James Power, Margaret Power, Kofi, Yrik, Byrel, Smartship Friday, Bogeyman 

FANTASTIC FOUR #325 
(same night as SS 22 end and FF 324 end; the snow may be another weird by-product of Inferno; Johnny's reference to "Christmas" must be topical; full moon; perhaps Thursday, April 1) 
Thing, Human Torch II, Ms. Marvel II, Mantis, Silver Surfer, L'ai Sau, Kang 

AVENGERS #300 (1st story: page 39, panel 2-page 40) 
(probably early morning after Av 300 1st pg. 31-39; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Captain America (as Captain), Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Gilgamesh, Thor, Tattletale (as Franklin Richards) 

EXCALIBUR #6 (end) 
(probably early morning after Exc 6 mid; long enough after Exc 6 beg for Brian and Meggan to fly across the Atlantic; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Phoenix III, N'Astirh 

EXCALIBUR #7 (beginning) 
(same early morning as Exc 6 end; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Captain Britain, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Phoenix III, Anna, Zeke, Custodian 

NEW MUTANTS #73 (middle) 
(must be early morning after NM 73 beg; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Magneto, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Colossus III, White Queen III, Black Queen II, Black King, S'ym, N'Astirh 

POWER PACK #44 (beginning) 
(same early morning as NM 73 mid; "hours" after PP 43; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Powerhouse II (as Destroyer II), Lightspeed (as Molecula), Destroyer III (as Counterweight), Counterweight II (as Starstreak), James Power, Margaret Power 

NEW MUTANTS #73 (end) 
(same early morning as PP 44 beg; "before the sun rises"; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik, Warlock II, Gosamyr, Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Colossus III, Nathan Summers, Goblin Queen, N'Astirh 

EXCALIBUR #7 (end) 
(same early morning as Exc 7 beg; right after NM 73 end; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Phoenix III, Crotus 

DAREDEVIL #265 (end) 
(same early morning as NM 73 end; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Daredevil, Susan 

X-FACTOR #37 (end) 
(must be early morning after XF 37 beg; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, Wolverine, Nathan Summers, Goblin Queen (as Madelyne Pryor) 

UNCANNY X-MEN #242 
(same early morning as XF 37 end and NM 73 end; "months" after UX 227; full moon; before dawn; the water of a New York lake is "freezing"; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Storm, Colossus III, Wolverine, Rogue, Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler II, Havok, Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, John Grey, Elaine Grey, Nathan Summers, Goblin Queen, N'Astirh 

X-FACTOR #38 
(same early morning as UX 242; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, Storm, Colossus III, Wolverine, Rogue, Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler II, Havok, John Grey, Elaine Grey, Nathan Summers, Goblin Queen 

SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #148 (end) 
(same early morning as XF 38; must be morning after SSM 148 beg; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Spider-Man, Flash Thompson, Betty Brant (Leeds) 

UNCANNY X-MEN #243 
(same early morning as XF 38 and SSM 148 end; full moon; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Storm, Colossus III, Wolverine, Rogue, Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler II, Havok, Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, Polaris, Ship, John Grey, Elaine Grey, Nathan Summers, Goblin Queen, Sabretooth, Blockbuster III, Malice IV, Mr. Sinister 

X-FACTOR #39 
(same morning as UX 243; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, Storm, Colossus III, Wolverine, Rogue, Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler II, Havok, Polaris, Sabretooth, Malice IV, Mr. Sinister 

CAPTAIN AMERICA #350 (1st story: beginning) 
(day after Av 300 1st pg. 31-39; must be same day as XF 39; "several months" after CA 335; a comment by Mr. Smith leads one to believe that it is before Friday, but it is perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Captain America (as Captain), U.S.Agent (as Captain America VI), Battle Star, Elron, Mikey, Dr. Mannheim, Douglas Rockwell, Red Skull (as Mr. Smith) 

X-FACTOR ANNUAL #4 (3rd story) 
(same afternoon as XF 39; "six hours" after Av 300 1st end; the reference to CA 344 being "last summer" must be topical -- it probably occured in winter; Inferno is explained away as the result of a mass hallucination, but some might view it as a huge April Fool's joke; the date "January 30" on the newspaper must be topical; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Jake Farber, Elwood McNulty, Gilgamesh, Thor, Edwin Jarvis, Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast, Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel, Ship, J. Jonah Jameson, Lance Bannon, Jacob Conover, Ned Zane, Dr. Snodgrass, [Mr. Fantastic], [Dr. Strange II], [Glory Grant], [Raymond Sikorski] 

MUTANT MISADVENTURES OF CLOAK AND DAGGER #3 
(the "bright, sunny" day after MMOCAD 2 end; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Cloak, Dagger (as Tandy Bowen), Francis Delgado, Michael Bowen, Phillip Carlisle, Rusty Nales, Dennis Fiedler, Portal Keeper, Gromitz, Durbuur, Jophurg, Blustar, Yipyap, Night, Mr. Jip 

MUTANT MISADVENTURES OF CLOAK AND DAGGER #4 
(same day as MMOCAD 3; after NM 73 end; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Cloak, Dagger, Michael Bowen, Dennis Fiedler, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Sunspot, Warlock II, Gosamyr, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Crotus 

MUTANT MISADVENTURES OF CLOAK AND DAGGER #5 (pages 1-7) 
(same day as MMOCAD 4; Michael's reference to Inferno having taken place in "summer" may be a topical reference to the hot weather of Inferno; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Dagger, Michael Bowen, Romain, Gerard, Ecstacy (as Rene Deladier) 

POWER PACK #44 (end) 
(same day as PP 44 beg and MMOCAD 4; it would normally be a school day, except the city is cleaning up after Inferno; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Powerhouse II (as Destroyer II), Lightspeed (as Molecula), Destroyer III (as Counterweight), Counterweight II (as Starstreak), James Power, Margaret Power, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Sunspot, Warlock II, Gosamyr, Ahjay Bhatnagar 

GHOST RIDER III #20 (flashback) 
(one day; perhaps during Inferno; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Zodiak (as Norman Harrison) 

NEW MUTANTS #74 
(same day as PP 44 end; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Magneto, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik (as Illyana Rasputina), Warlock II, Gosamyr, Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Ship, White Queen III, Black Queen II, Black King 

EXCALIBUR #8 
(same day as NM 74; a Spidey-Doc Ock battle is shown in the background of one panel; warm weather; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Phoenix III, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik (as Illyana Rasputina), Warlock II, Brightwind, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Nathan Summers, Ship, Spider-Man, Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Carmen, Shirlene, Monique, Rosalie, Felicia, Sid, Joey, Barbi McAllister, Levon, Marty, Dr. Octopus 

NEW MUTANTS #75 
(same day as Exc 8; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Magneto, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik (as Illyana Rasputina), Warlock II, Sabretooth, White Queen III, Black Queen II, Black King 

NEW MUTANTS #76 (beginning) 
(same day as NM 75; the New Mutants haven't slept in "two" or "three" days -- they probably rest on the way to X-Factor's ship and don't arrive there until the next day, in NM 76 end; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik (as Illyana Rasputina), Warlock II, Brightwind 

CAPTAIN AMERICA #350 (1st story: middle) 
(same night as CA 350 1st beg and into early next morning; begins the day after CA 349 end; begins "a few days" after CA 348 end; full moon; sometime before the January that a U.S. president leaves office; perhaps Friday and Saturday, April 2-3) 
Captain America (as Captain), U.S.Agent (as Captain America VI), Valerie Cooper, Raymond Sikorski, Henry Peter Gyrich, Adrian Sammish, Mr. Mathers, Wesley, Douglas Rockwell, Crucible, Scourge III, Watchdog, Ultimatum, Red Skull (as Mr. Smith), [Left-Winger], [Right-Winger] 

QUASAR #2 (end) 
(one day and early the next morning; "a few weeks" after Q 2 beg; as long after Q 2 mid as it took Wendell to travel "100,000 kilometers"; perhaps Friday and Saturday, April 2-3) 
Quasar III, Eon, Gilbert Vaughn, Lisa Vaughn, Deathurge 

QUASAR #3 (beginning) 
(same day as Q 2 end; probably after FF 325, although Johnny seems to be in control of his flame; Johnny's reference to "summer" may be topical; full moon; perhaps Saturday, April 3) 
Quasar III, Eon, Gilbert Vaughn, Human Torch II 

X-FACTOR #40 (beginning) 
(must be day after XF Ann 4 3rd; Maddy's funeral, which takes place the same "week" as Candy's funeral; falling leaves must be topical; perhaps Saturday, April 3) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Artie Maddicks, Leech, Wiz Kid, Ship, Nathan Summers, John Grey, Elaine Grey, Joey Bailey, Galen Bailey, Mystique, Blob, Pyro, Nanny, Orphan-Maker 

NEW MUTANTS #76 (end) 
(same day as XF 40 beg; perhaps Saturday, April 3) 
Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Magik (as Illyana Rasputin), Warlock II, Rusty Collins, Skids, Rictor, Meltdown II (as Boom Boom), Brightwind, Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Sub-Mariner, [Archangel], [Joey Bailey], [Galen Bailey] 

X-FACTOR #40 (end) 
(same day as NM 76 end; perhaps Saturday, April 3) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel, Rusty Collins, Skids, Ship, John Grey, Elaine Grey, Joey Bailey, Galen Bailey 

STRANGE TALES II #19 (1st story: end) 
(one day; "a few days" after ST 19 1st beg; a baseball game is being played -- if indeed it is the beginning of the baseball season, then it must not be weekend day; perhaps Saturday, April 3) 
Mayhem, Lucas Cleary, Mr. Cleary, Emma Mazzilli 

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #49 
(one day and next day; perhaps early April) 
Spider-Man, Mary Jane Watson (Parker), Kate Cushing, Lorry Mandell, Winston Shepard, Ms. Taylor, Morrie, Sal 

INCREDIBLE HULK II #355 (flashback) 
(one day; shortly before IH 353; perhaps early April) 
Glorian, Shaper of Worlds 

INCREDIBLE HULK II #351 
(one day; the Hulk may have been laying in the desert for days after Av Ann 17; "a while" after IH 349; perhaps early April) 
Hulk (as Joe Fixit), Marlo Chandler, Mona, Suzy 

INCREDIBLE HULK II #352 
(same day as IH 351; perhaps early April) 
Hulk (as Joe Fixit), [Marlo Chandler] 

INCREDIBLE HULK II #353 
(same day as IH 352; shortly after IH 355 FB; "week" after IH 349; perhaps early April) 
Hulk (as Joe Fixit), Marlo Chandler, Michael Berengetti, Suzy, Lenny, Mac, Jeffries, Harry, Jake, Tony, Tiny, Sidney, Sylvia, Glorian 

INCREDIBLE HULK II #354 
(same night as IH 353 and next day; crescent moon; perhaps early April) 
Hulk, Marlo Chandler, Michael Berengetti, Mona, Suzy, Eileen Barnes, Jerry, Mr. Delatore, Morrie, Sherm, Glorian 

CAPTAIN AMERICA #382 (2nd story -- flashback: page 4, panel 6) 
(day after CA 350 mid end; perhaps Sunday, April 4) 
U.S.Agent (as Captain America VI), Lewis Haywerth 

EXCALIBUR #9 
(one day; must be a day or two after Exc 8, as Excalibur is still in America when this story opens; "a while" after Exc 6; probably a Sunday; perhaps April 4) 
Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Phoenix III, Lockheed, Widget, Dai Thomas, Alistaire Stuart, Caledonia (as Alysande Stuart), Nigel Frobisher, Corporal Swain, Wilbur Griswald of Earth 99476, Martha Griswald of Earth 99476, Calvin Griswald of Earth 99476, Susie Griswald of Earth 99476, Sergeant Vaughn of Earth 99476, Rupert, Opul Lun Sat-Yr9 (as Courtney Ross Imposter), Hauptmann Englande, Meggan of True Briton, Nightcrawler of True Briton, Shadowcat of True Briton, Moira MacTaggert of True Briton, Callisto of True Briton 

EXCALIBUR #10 
(same night as Exc 9 and into next morning; probably Sunday and Monday; perhaps April 4-5) 
Captain Britain, Meggan, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Phoenix III, Widget, Dai Thomas, Alistaire Stuart, Caledonia (as Alysande Stuart), Opul Lun Sat-Yr9 (as Courtney Ross Imposter), Hauptmann Englande, Meggan of True Briton, Nightcrawler of True Briton, Shadowcat of True Briton, Moira MacTaggert of True Briton, Callisto of True Briton 

EXCALIBUR #11 (beginning) 
(same day as Exc 10; probably Monday; perhaps April 5) 
Shadowcat, Phoenix III, Lockheed, Nigel Frobisher, Brigitte, Opul Lun Sat-Yr9 (as Courtney Ross Imposter) 

SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #149 
(one rainy day and into next morning; "weeks" after SSM Ann 8 1st, which presumably occurred in mid March; a "month" after Peter beat McBride out of a research grant; must begin on a weekday during the college year; full moon; perhaps Monday and Tuesday, April 5-6) 
Spider-Man, Joe Robertson, Kate Cushing, Joy Mercado, Glory Grant, Anne-Marie, Cynthia Bernhammer, Evan Swann, Lou, Eduardo Lobo, Arranger, Tombstone, Carrion II 

DAMAGE CONTROL #4 
(one day and next day; begins "three days" after UX 243; perhaps Monday and Tuesday, April 5-6) 
John Porter, Robin Chapel, Albert Cleary, Lenny Ballinger, Gene Strasser, Bart Rozum 

QUASAR #51 (flashback: end) 
(one day; sometime after Q 51 FB beg; perhaps Tuesday, April 6) 
Angler 

QUASAR #3 (end) 
(same day as Q 51 FB end; "three days" after Q 3 beg; "a few years" after CA 289; must be early in the week; perhaps Tuesday, April 6) 
Quasar III, Eon, Gilbert Vaughn, Starbrand II (as Kayla Ballantine), Human Torch, Mr. Merrick, Angler
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 11 Jul 2006 08:23 am    
By Ocean Doot

"WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #44 
(perhaps day after SSM 145; Peter must be on the same book tour as shown in SSM 145, since a full moon is present in both SSM 144 and WOSM 45; perhaps Thursday, March 25) 
Spider-Man, Hulk (as Joe Fixit), Warzone," 

For what it's worth, Web of Spider-Man 44 takes place over two consecutive days. Pgs. 1-13 are the first day (in which Parker says that he'll be signing books at Page After Page "tomorrow," and pgs. 14-30 are the second (the day of the signing). Also, I suppose this is what is called "topical," but -- again, for what it's worth -- the sign on the window of Page After Page says "Peter Parker, June 5," so Web of Spider-Man 44 takes place June 4-5. 

"INCREDIBLE HULK II #349 
(same day as WOSM 44?" 

Yes, this is definitely the same day as pgs. 14-30 of Web of Spider-Man 44.

			*	*	*

Posted: 11 Jul 2006 01:47 pm    
By wolframbane

What 'YEAR' does Inferno take place in?

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Posted: 11 Jul 2006 06:39 pm    
By RLG

Paul, now that you've shown us your notes on Infinity Gauntlet & Inferno, (not to mention Infinity War and Crusade), you might as well get it over with and show us your Acts of Vengeance stuff! Anyone second the motion??? 

RLG

			*	*	*

Posted: 11 Jul 2006 08:15 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Paul, now that you've shown us your notes on Infinity Gauntlet & Inferno, (not to mention Infinity War and Crusade), you might as well get it over with and show us your Acts of Vengeance stuff! Anyone second the motion???  
<<<

You're actually the second, RLG. Jim C. made the motion off-board, and I will post that momentarily. 


Quote: 
>>>
What 'YEAR' does Inferno take place in? 
<<<

This is a rather nebulous period in calendar formation, but if the March placement holds up (and I'm not at all sure it will), I would hazard a guess that it's early in Year 15. If not, then it may late in Year 14.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 13 Jul 2006 08:16 pm    
By JimC

Paul, Where would you place Thor 394 (p 10), Thor 395-399, and CA 350 (end)? Thanks! 
JimC

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Posted: 13 Jul 2006 08:38 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Those are the last comics immediately before what I posted.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 02 Sep 2006 10:53 pm    
By Andrew Greaves

Quote: 
>>>
This is a rather nebulous period in calendar formation, but if the March placement holds up (and I'm not at all sure it will), I would hazard a guess that it's early in Year 15. If not, then it may late in Year 14. 
<<<

Something seems off here. If Kitty Pryde was born in Year -5, joined the X-Men in Year 8, and experienced her sixteenth birthday (not fifteenth -- probable editorial error) in EXC 24, making that Year 11, then Inferno can't have happened that late. She was only fifteen at the time.

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Sep 2006 12:38 am    
By wolframbane

Well Andrew, I have been doing a lot of intensive research for my X-Men Timelne in recent months. Kitty would seem to have been born in Year -3. She was 13 when she joined the X-Men in Year 10. (Year 8 was when the 'new' X-Men fought Krakoa, Year 9 was when they completed their training and Thunderbird died, Year 10 was the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix stories when Kitty joined). The ref to her 16th birthday in EXC must unfortunately be erroneous. By today (Year 24), she is currently 27.

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Sep 2006 10:05 am    
By Somebody

And since there's no bloody way she's drawn, depicted or otherwise made out to be beyond her early twenties (not through a "calendar" method, I make her a round 20), you see where the thing falls down.

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Posted: 03 Sep 2006 10:31 am    
By metaldragon

Where do X-Factor 32 & 33 fit in this timescale? 

There is a very significant scene in XF 32 where Cameron Hodge first makes contact with N'astir and offers his soul and the location of mutant infants the Right has on file in return for imortality. 

On the first page of XF 33 Trish Tilby reports that "Muggings, riots, accidents, and bizarre, aparently heat-induced hallucinations are being reported... ...as the record breaking heat wave continues for the second straight week with no end in sight..." She later says, "This report of inanimate objects acting on their own volition is typical of those we have received by the score... ...Tales of manhole covers and fire hydrants that attack passers-by... ...Unobstructed drains that, nonetheless, back up. Telephone lines filled with ghostly laughter..." Boom Boom is attacked by a sweater while shopping and manhole covers spontaneously blast into the air twice. 

Edit: Oh wait, I see that you did have the end of XF 33 on there. The rest of XF 33 takes place the day before the segment of X-terminators 1 where kids are dropped off at school and Rusty goes to naval prison.
_________________
"May the Light shine forever!"

Last edited by metaldragon on 03 Sep 2006 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total

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Posted: 03 Sep 2006 10:47 am    
By metaldragon

Quote: 
>>>
UNCANNY X-MEN #242 
(same early morning as XF 37 end and NM 73 end; "months" after UX 227; full moon; before dawn; the water of a New York lake is "freezing"; perhaps Friday, April 2) 
<<<

Uh... It's not actually "the water of a New York lake". Havok just blasted one of Iceman's over-powered ice mountains and it created a flash flood of ice water. There was no sign of a lake before then.
_________________
"May the Light shine forever!"

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Posted: 03 Sep 2006 11:57 pm    
By Andrew Greaves

wolframbane wrote: 
>>>
Well Andrew, I have been doing a lot of intensive research for my X-Men Timelne in recent months. Kitty would seem to have been born in Year -3. She was 13 when she joined the X-Men in Year 10. (Year 8 was when the 'new' X-Men fought Krakoa, Year 9 was when they completed their training and Thunderbird died, Year 10 was the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix stories when Kitty joined). The ref to her 16th birthday in EXC must unfortunately be erroneous. By today (Year 24), she is currently 27. 
<<<

So you added a couple years before Kitty was born? 

Okay, I'll accept that so far as it goes. 

However, that still puts Inferno around Year 12. 

Also, in EXC 24, Kitty makes references to it being barely a couple of years since she joined the X-Men and to being a year too young to drive legally. Since, apparently unbeknownst to the editorial staff, driving age in Britain is seventeen, that would make this issue her sixteenth birthday. 

Which means, incidentally, that the entire Cross-Time Caper took something less than a year all told.

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Posted: 04 Sep 2006 09:49 am    
By SKleefeld
Director

Andrew Greaves wrote: 
>>>
Since, apparently unbeknownst to the editorial staff, driving age in Britain is seventeen, that would make this issue her sixteenth birthday. 
<<<

Not necessarily. 

Recall that Kitty herself is an American and, by any account, a teenager during this time period. She could easily be making the statement as an egocentric American teenager under the general misapprehension that British laws are the same as American ones since we speak (nearly) the same language. I doubt most Americans today would be able to tell you the legal driving age of any other country, and I see no reason why Kitty would be more enlightened in that regard. 

Plus, some states allow learner's perits and what amounts to pre-licenses before a person actually turns 16. Which means that Kitty could conceivably be anywhere from 14 to 16, depending on context and/or interpretation. 

-- Sean

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Posted: 06 Sep 2006 09:53 am  
By Andrew Greaves

Highly unlikely. This is, after all, the same girl who was both the youngest and the smartest X-Man in the team's history. Not to mention her strong sense of social awareness and her eidetic memory. One would expect her to be aware of such things. 

Also, she'd been living in Britain and with British subjects for some time now. I highly doubt the subject of driving lessons didn't come up at some point. Particularly since the roadster Sat Yr 9 gave her in EXC 24 was a stick-shift, and she admitted to not knowing how to drive a manual in EXC 3. 

Besides, one of the reasons she likely remained in Britain was because of the Mutant Registration Act. If that isn't enough to kill someone's tendency towards egocentric Americanism, nothing else would.

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Posted: 23 Sep 2006 01:24 pm    
By Andy Grant

"Some states", in Kitty's instance, would only refer to her living in Chicago and Westchester, no? Do Illinois or New York allow "underage" permits? If not, it seems a bit of a stretch to interpret a reference to a place she's never lived into the story.

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Posted: 24 Sep 2006 12:02 am    
By Col_Fury

I can vouch for Illinois, I had a learner's permit when I was 15. I couldn't tell you anything about New York, though.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

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Thread 14

Posted: 23 Sep 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Mutant Massacre, and Mephisto Vs. era chronologies
By metaldragon

Paul, have you done an analysis of the over-arching chronology for the Marvel Universe surrounding the Mutant Massacre from rougly Jan 1986-April 1987? The Chronology Project is out of synch in this era. Focus issues being guest appearances and crossovers. There are many and it's quite a knot. There are a number of issues that have to take place before Mutant Massacre crossover placed after it in many characters chronologies. The 1986 Annuals have many guest appearances that need to take place before the Mutant Massacre. Another major touch-stone is the Mephisto Vs. mini which crosses over with many characters and takes place after the Massacre giving us a placement guide for those characters who weren't involved in the Massacre. 

I noticed these problems because I'm a big X-Factor fan. When I cross-checked their chronology against other characters they guest-starred with and crossed over with, there were some rather... interesting differences. I don't know enough about the other characters to tell where those issues ought to go exactly but I can point out where they are wrong and the general spot they'd have to find a place. 

The worst placed one is M/FAN 32. I'll see if I can't do an analysis of it. Also troublesome are placements of IM@ 8, and WCA@ 1. I mentioned these problems in a previous post but thought I should bring it up again 'cause I noticed a change to Thor's chronology during this era recently and wondered if that might have affected the overall chronology here. [Edit: Read Thor's chronology again, no change, just misread it.]
_________________
"May the Light shine forever!"

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Posted: 23 Sep 2006 08:18 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Here are my old notes, which I haven't reviewed for years (aside from a little insert or edit here and there). Dates are there to help me keep track of time and may or may not hold up in the grander calendar scheme. I can't swear by everything, but I throw this out to spark discussion among y'all. Enjoy. 


X-FACTOR #5 
(one day; "week" after XF 4; Jean has enrolled in some college courses, perhaps for the summer semester; perhaps Sunday, May 11) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Rusty Collins, Artie Maddicks, Cameron Hodge, Vera Cantor, Michael Nowlan, Suzy Nowlan, Tower, Frenzy, Timeshadow, Stinger, Apocalypse 

X-FACTOR #6 
(same day as XF 5; full moon; perhaps Sunday, May 11) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Michael Nowlan, Suzy Nowlan, Sergeant Gorelli, Joe Simsky, Tower, Frenzy, Timeshadow, Stinger, Apocalypse 

X-FACTOR #7 
(day after XF 6; perhaps Monday, May 12) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Rusty Collins, Artie Maddicks, Cameron Hodge, Vera Cantor, Trish Tilby, Skids, Glow Worm, Bulk 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #279 
(one day?; perhaps Monday, May 12) 
Spider-Man, Silver Sable, 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #280 
(same day as ASM 279?; perhaps Monday, May 12) 
Spider-Man, Silver Sable, Beetle, Boomerang, Hydro-Man, Rhino, Speed Demon, 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #281 
(same night as ASM 280; perhaps Monday, May 12) 
Spider-Man, J. Jonah Jameson, Joe Robertson, Flash Thompson, Sharon Banks, Silver Sable, Sandman, Mr. Johnston, Kingpin II (as Rose), Hobgoblin III, Hobgoblin IV (as Jack O'Lantern), Beetle, Boomerang, Hydro-Man, Rhino, Speed Demon 

SILVER SABLE AND THE WILD PACK #18 (2nd story: flashback) 
(same night as ASM 281; perhaps Monday, May 12) 
Silver Sable, Sandman 

PETER PARKER, THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #119 
(must be same night as ASM 281; "a few months" after Hobgoblin kindnapped Liz; this issue must happen before the Mutant Massacre; full moon; Felicia's references to "autumn" must be topical; perhaps Monday, May 12) 
Spider-Man, Black Cat, Mary Jane Watson, Joe Robertson, Randy Robertson, Amanda Robertson, Green Goblin II (as Harry Osborn), Liz Allan (Osborn), Norman Osborn II, Candi, Randi, Bambi, Dr. Roman, Tony, Jim, Rocco, Sabretooth, Foreigner 

X-FACTOR #8 (beginning) 
(day after XF 7; according to OMITTXM 4, this segment occurs after UX 206; perhaps Tuesday, May 13) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Rusty Collins, Artie Maddicks, Cameron Hodge, Vera Cantor, Trish Tilby, Mystique, Destiny II, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spiral, Spider-Woman II 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #282 
(must be same day as XF 8 beg -- because this story must occur after XF 7 and before the Mutant Massacre, the afternoon between XF 8 beg and end is the only time that X-Factor could be involved in the adventure in this issue; day after ASM 281; after PPTSSM 117 beg; perhaps Tuesday, May 13) 
Spider-Man, J. Jonah Jameson, Mary Jane Watson, Joe Robertson, Kris Keating Imposter, Betty Brant (Leeds), Sharon Banks, Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Cameron Hodge, Alfredo 

UNCANNY X-MEN #207 
(must be same day as XF 8 beg; according to OMITTXM 4, this story occurs after FS 4; because of complications, Logan is still recovering from wounds sustained in UX 205, which occurred last Christmas!; "months" after UX 188; perhaps Tuesday, May 13) 
Storm, Colossus III, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Shadowcat, Rogue, Phoenix III, Callisto, Jerry Sirco, Black Queen II (as Selene), Black Rook 

UNCANNY X-MEN #208 
(same night as UX 207; a comment by Kitty leads one to believe that this issue occurs the same week as UX 205, but this cannot be true -- it must be several months after UX 205; bare trees and green trees shown; perhaps Tuesday, May 13) 
Storm, Colossus III, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Shadowcat, Rogue, Phoenix III (as Rachel Summers), Callisto, Caliban, Sunder, Tomas Rodriguez, Nimrod II, Black King, Black Queen II, Black Bishop, Black Rook, Tessa 

UNCANNY X-MEN #209 (beginning) 
(same night as UX 208; perhaps Tuesday, May 13) 
Storm, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Shadowcat, Rogue, Phoenix III (as Rachel Summers), Callisto, Nimrod II, Black King, Black Queen II, Black Bishop, Black Rook, Tessa 

X-FACTOR #8 (middle) 
(same night as XF 8 beg and UX 209 beg; full moon; perhaps Tuesday, May 13) 
Cyclops (as Scott Summers), Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel (as Warren Worthington III), Rusty Collins, Artie Maddicks, Cameron Hodge, Skids, Mystique, Destiny II, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spiral, Spider-Woman II 

UNCANNY X-MEN #209 (end) 
(same night as UX 209 beg and XF 8 mid; according to OMITTXM 4, this segment occurs between LS 6 and Exc 64 1st FB; perhaps Tuesday, May 13) 
Storm, Colossus III, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Rogue, Phoenix III (as Rachel Summers), Callisto, Caliban, Nimrod, Black Queen II, Black Bishop, Black Rook, Tessa, Spiral, [Mojo] 

X-FACTOR #8 (end) 
(same night as XF 8 mid and UX 209 end and into next morning; perhaps Tuesday and Wednesday, May 13-14) 
Cyclops (as Scott Summers), Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel (as Warren Worthington III), Rusty Collins, Skids, Trish Tilby, Mystique, Destiny II, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spider-Woman II 

X-FACTOR #9 (pages 1-2) 
(same morning as XF 8 end; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Rusty Collins, Skids, Mystique, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spider-Woman II 

UNCANNY X-MEN #350 (3rd flashback) 
(must be same morning as XF 9 pg. 1-2; shortly after UX 350 2nd FB end; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Gambit, Scalphunter, Harpoon, Vertigo II, Scrambler, Malice IV, Prism, Sabretooth, [Arclight] 

UNCANNY X-MEN #350 (4th flashback) 
(same morning as UX 350 3rd FB; Marrow is a little girl; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Gambit, Marrow, Vertigo II, Riptide, Sabretooth 

UNCANNY X-MEN #210 (pages 1-15) 
(same morning as XF 9 pg. 1-2 and UX 350 4th FB; a "weekday"; green trees and grass in New York; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Magneto, Colossus III, Shadowcat, Rogue, Dazzler II (as Alison Blaire), Magik (as Illyana Rasputina), Lockheed, Conal Duran, Ben Locklin, Richard Salmons, Tommy, Joey, Guido, Scalphunter, Harpoon, Vertigo II, Riptide, Scrambler, Malice IV 

X-FACTOR #9 (page 3, panels 1-3) 
(same morning as XF 9 pg. 1-2 and UX 210 pg. 1-15; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops (as Scott Summers), Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel (as Warren Worthington III), Trish Tilby 

X-FACTOR #9 (page 3, panel 4-page 4, panel 2)/UNCANNY X-MEN #210 (page 16, panels 1-2) 
(same morning as XF 9 pg. 3, pn. 1-3; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops (as Scott Summers), Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel (as Warren Worthington III), Trish Tilby 

UNCANNY X-MEN #210 (page 16, panels 3-4) 
(same morning as XF 9 pg. 3-4; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Magneto (as Magnus), Cyclops (as Scott Summers), Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel (as Warren Worthington III) 

X-FACTOR #9 (page 4, panels 3-9) 
(same morning as UX 210 pg. 16, pn. 3-4; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops (as Scott Summers), Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel (as Warren Worthington III) 

UNCANNY X-MEN #210 (page 16, panel 5) 
(same morning as XF 9 pg. 4, pn. 3-9; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops (as Scott Summers), Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel (as Warren Worthington III) 

X-FACTOR #9 (page 5, panel 1-page 6, panel 1) 
(same morning as UX 210 pg. 16, pn. 5; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops (as Scott Summers), Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel (as Warren Worthington III), Magneto (as Magnus) 

UNCANNY X-MEN #210 (page 16, panel 6-page 17, panel 6) 
(same morning as XF 9 pg. 5-6; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Magneto (as Magnus), Black King, Black Queen II, White Queen III, Tessa 

X-FACTOR #9 (page 6, panel 2-page 11, panel 8) 
(same morning as UX 210 pg. 16-17; green trees and grass; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops (as Scott Summers), Phoenix IV (as Jean Grey), Beast (as Hank McCoy), Iceman (as Bobby Drake), Archangel (as Warren Worthington III), Rusty Collins, Skids, Trish Tilby, Mystique, Destiny II, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spider-Woman II 

UNCANNY X-MEN #210 (page 17, panel 7-page 23, panel 7) 
(same day as XF 9 pg. 6-11; according to OMITTXM 4, this segment occurs before XM Ann 10; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Storm, Colossus III, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Shadowcat, Magik, Tommy, Scalphunter, Harpoon, Vertigo II, Scrambler 

X-FACTOR #9 (pages 12-22) 
(same day as UX 210 pg. 17-23; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Rusty Collins, Artie Maddicks, Skids, Cameron Hodge, Caliban, Leech, Mystique, Destiny II, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spider-Woman II, Harpoon 

POWER PACK #26 (beginning) 
(same day as UX 210 and XF 9???; "days" after PP 23; "months" after PP 1; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Powerhouse II (as Destroyer II), Lightspeed (as Molecula), Destroyer III (as Counterweight), Counterweight II (as Starstreak), Tattletale, James Power, Margaret Power, Kofi, Smartship Friday, Yrik, Cloak, Dagger, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch II, She-Hulk, Williams, Bhadsha, Maraud 

X-FACTOR #9 (page 23) 
(same day as XF 9 pg. 12-22; according to OMITTA 5, this segment occurs before Av Ann 1; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Valerie Cooper, Mystique, Destiny II, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spider-Woman II 

X-MEN UNLIMITED v2 #14  FB  FB 
During the Mutant Massacre, Scalphunter shoots and kills a Morlock. 
Scalphunter 

UNCANNY X-MEN #211 (beginning) 
(same day as XF 9 pg. 23??? and PP 26 beg; according to OMITTXM 4, this segment occurs between NM 45 end and NM 46 beg; Kitty has term papers due, so it may be near the end of the spring semester at Xavier's school; green trees and grass; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Magneto (as Magnus), Storm, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Shadowcat, Rogue, Psylocke (as Betsy Braddock), Moonstar (as Danielle Moonstar), Magik, Sharon Friedlander, Brightwind, Callisto, Annalee, Piper II, Cybelle, Scalphunter, Harpoon, Vertigo II, Arclight, Riptide, Scrambler, [Mr. Sinister] 

X-FACTOR #10 (pages 1-6) 
(same day as UX 211 beg; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Rusty Collins, Skids, Erg, Beautiful Dreamer, Zeek, Scalphunter, Harpoon, Arclight, [Mr. Sinister] 

UNCANNY X-MEN #211 (middle) 
(same day as XF 10 pg. 1-6; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, Callisto, Sunder 

X-FACTOR #10 (page 7, panels 1-3) 
(same day as UX 211 pg. 17 mid; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops, Beast, Iceman, Erg, Beautiful Dreamer, Harpoon, Arclight, [Mr. Sinister] 

UNCANNY X-MEN #211 (end) 
(same day as XF 10 pg. 7, pn. 1-3; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Storm, Colossus III, Wolverine, Shadowcat, Rogue, Callisto, Sunder, Annalee, Harpoon, Riptide, Scrambler, [Cyclops], [Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl)], [Beast], [Iceman], [Archangel (as Angel III)], [Mr. Sinister] 

X-TREME X-MEN #38 (flashback within flashback: page 14, panel 2) 
(same day as UX 211 end; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Storm 

WEST COAST AVENGERS II #13 (flashback) 
(one day; perhaps ) 
Graviton 

WEST COAST AVENGERS II #12 
(same day as WCA 13 FB; according to OMITTA 5, this story must occur after IH 323; perhaps ) 
Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Wonder Man, Tigra, Iron Man, Giant-Man (as Hank Pym), Joachin, Quantum, Halflife, Zzzax, Graviton 

WEST COAST AVENGERS II #13 
(same day as WCA 12; according to OMITTA 5, this story must occur before VASW 12 beg and IM 211; "not long" after WCA LS 3-4; "months" after WCA 9; perhaps ) 
Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Wonder Man, Tigra, Iron Man, Giant-Man (as Hank Pym), Mr. Carstairs, Quantum, Halflife, Zzzax, Graviton 

X-FACTOR #10 (page 7, panel 4-page 24) 
(same day as UX 211 end; Sabretooth must have broken out of the hospital, where he lay at the end of PPTSSM 119, and quickly joined up with the Marauders -- curiously, his face wounds have healed, so perhaps he encountered Healer behind the scenes before this issue and forced the Morlock to help him; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Rusty Collins, Artie Maddicks, Skids, Cameron Hodge, Trish Tilby, Candy Southern, Caliban, Leech, Erg, Beautiful Dreamer, Ape, Tar Baby, Mystique, Destiny II, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Pestilence III (as Plague), Apocalypse, Harpoon, Vertigo II, Arclight, Scrambler, Sabretooth, Blockbuster III, Prism, [Mr. Sinister] 

POWER PACK #26 (end) 
(same night as PP 26 beg; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Powerhouse II (as Destroyer II), Lightspeed (as Molecula), Destroyer III (as Counterweight), Counterweight II (as Starstreak), Tattletale, Kofi, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch II, She-Hulk, Cloak, Dagger, Edwin Jarvis 

NEW MUTANTS #46 (beginning) 
(same night as XF 10 pg. 7-24; according to OMITTXM 4, this segment occurs after UX 211 beg; full moon; green trees and grass; perhaps Wednesday, May 14) 
Magneto, Moonstar (as Mirage III), Cannonball II, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Karma, Magma II, Magik, Cypher, Warlock II, Storm, Colossus III, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Rogue, Psylocke (as Betsy Braddock), Lockheed, Moira MacTaggert, Tom Corsi, Sharon Friedlander, Callisto, Sunder, [Brightwind] 

AVENGERS ANNUAL #15 
(one day and into the next morning; according to OMITTA 5, this story occurs after Av 272 pg. 15-22, IM 211, XF 9 pg. 23, and VASW 12 end; according to OMITTXM 4, this story must occur after Exc 64 FB; according to OMITTA 5, this story occurs before WCA Ann 1 and PP 22; the Vault has been in operation "less than a week"; the Avengers are playing baseball, so it is probably spring, and since they are using a commercial ballfield, it is probably not the weekend; perhaps Wednesday and Thursday, May 14-15) 
Wasp, Captain America, Photon II (as Captain Marvel II), Hercules, Black Knight III, Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Wonder Man, Tigra, Iron Man, Giant-Man (as Henry Pym), Edwin Jarvis, Raymond Sikorski, Valerie Cooper, Henry Peter Gyrich, Guardsmen, Johnny, Mystique, Destiny II, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spiral, Spider-Woman II, [Quicksilver], [George Schultz] 

WEST COAST AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 
(same day as Av Ann 15 end; WCA 13 is referred to as "the other day"; "soon" after VASW 12 end; according to OMITTA 5, this story must occur before CA 321, IM 212 beg, and WCA 14; according to OMITTXM 4, this story occurs before XM Ann 10; must be after XF 3; since the Hulk is shown in captivity here, this story must take place between IH 323 and 324; because Thor appears here in beard and old costume, this story must take place between MT 373 beg and end; perhaps Thursday, May 15) 
Hawkeye, Mockingbird, Wonder Man, Tigra, Iron Man, Giant-Man (as Henry Pym), Wasp, Captain America, Photon II (as Captain Marvel II), Hercules, Black Knight III, Thor, Black Panther, Black Widow II, Falcon, War Machine (as Iron Man IV), Vision II, Scarlet Witch (as Wanda Maximoff), She-Hulk, Beast (as Hank McCoy), Quicksilver, Mr. Fantastic, Hulk, Tommy, Billy, Henry Peter Gyrich, Mystique, Destiny II, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spiral, Aquarius III, Aries V, Cancer II, Capricorn II, Gemini II, Leo III, Libra II, Pisces II, Sagittarius III, Scorpio, Taurus III, Virgo II 

POWER PACK #27 
(same night as NM 46 beg and into early next morning; "a few days" after PP 25; according to OMITTXM 4, this story occurs between UX 211 and 212 beg; perhaps Wednesday and Thursday, May 14-15) 
Powerhouse II (as Destroyer II), Lightspeed (as Molecula), Destroyer III (as Counterweight), Counterweight II (as Starstreak), Tattletale, James Power, Margaret Power, Cyclops, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Wolverine, Skids, Caliban, Leech, Erg, Beautiful Dreamer, Ape, Tar Baby, Annalee, Scalphunter, Harpoon, Arclight, Scrambler, Sabretooth, [Mr. Sinister] 

UNCANNY X-MEN #212 (beginning) 
(same early morning as PP 27 end; according to OMITTXM 4, this segment occurs between NM 46 end and MT 374 beg; full moon; perhaps Thursday, May 15) 
Magneto, Storm, Colossus III, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Shadowcat, Rogue, Psylocke (as Betsy Braddock), Moira MacTaggert, Callisto, Tom Corsi, Sharon Friedlander, Healer, Sabretooth, [Sunder], [Mr. Sinister] 

POWER PACK #28 
(same morning as PP 27 end; according to OMITTA 5, this story occurs between CA 323 and Av 273 end; green trees and grass and the children playing soccer outdoors; perhaps Thursday, May 15) 
Powerhouse II (as Destroyer II), Lightspeed (as Molecula), Destroyer III (as Counterweight), Counterweight II (as Starstreak), Tattletale, James Power, Margaret Power, Kofi, Yrik, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch II, She-Hulk, Hercules, Black Knight III (as Dane Whitman), Edwin Jarvis, Johnny Rival, Tony, Awf, Geik, Maraud 

X-MEN UNLIMITED v2 #14/2  FB 
Probably the same day as PP 28. Illyana cannot accept the deaths of the Morlocks and, despite Peters advice, sets out to go back in time via limbo and prevent the massacre. Illyana discovers she cant change the past and returns to Peter. She makes him promise not to die and he vows to be there for her always. 
Colossus, Magik
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 24 Sep 2006 02:47 am    
By metaldragon

You'll need to sneak Angel, Beast, and Iceman's appearance in M/FAN 32/1 right after ASM 282 in there (see my analysis in the Issue Analysis forum) [edit: along with Captain America, Spider-Man, Human Torch II, The Yellow Claw, etc.] and WCA@ 1 will have to be revised in Thor's chronology if this is the correct placement for it (after the Massacre). I don't think you have it correct because Blockbuster broke Thor's arm in the Massacre and it appears whole in WCA@ 1. I seem to recall someone mentioning Freedom Force appear in A@ 15 and WCA@ 1 between appearances in X-Factor 8 & 9 in the Marvel Index...? I suspect Beast's brief appearance in WCA@ 1 takes place during X-Factor 9 when they change from their X-Factor mutant hunter uniforms into their "X-terminators" outfits.
_________________
"May the Light shine forever!"

Last edited by metaldragon on 24 Sep 2006 01:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 24 Sep 2006 10:40 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

metaldragon wrote: 
>>>
WCA@ 1 will have to be revised in Thor's chronology if this is the correct placement for it (after the Massacre). I don't think you have it correct because Blockbuster broke Thor's arm in the Massacre and it appears whole in WCA@ 1. 
<<<

We've already had a huge, HUGE discussion about Thor's broken arm in Mutant Massacre, and I don't really want to get into that one again. You might have to search the archives for the debate. 


watching: justice league

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Posted: 24 Sep 2006 12:01 pm    
By Somebody

Wait, you deliberately reordered it? It's an absolutely critical plot point that (a) Thor's bones were fragile and (b) did not heal until Hela removed the curse [by which time Iceman had appeared in Thor in an appearance crucial to that character, and Thor (in full Simonson armour) had made a cameo in X-Factor dropping Bobby off after that]. If you don't like that, you might as well throw the last half of Simonson's run out of the MCP as ignore that, since it overrides all other Thor placement data to my mind.

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Posted: 24 Sep 2006 03:00 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Wait, you deliberately reordered it? 
<<<

"reordered it"? What do you mean by "reordered it"? 


watching: dukes of hazard

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Thread 15

Posted: 08 Dec 2005 12:01 pm    Post subject: Excelsior
By Paul Bourcier
Director

In Marvel Team-Up v3 #15, we see that Darkhawk has formed a team called Excelsior in Los Angeles with Ricochet and others. Is this the first time this team has appeared? Does anyone know the identities of the other team members? M/TU3 15 shows a white guy wearing what appears to be a Turbo costume and a light brown-haired white woman wearing a dark blue costume with red gloves. Did I miss something? 

_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 08 Dec 2005 12:26 pm    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

Excelsior are regular characters in RUNAWAYS.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 Dec 2005 12:29 pm    
By jephyork
Director

IIRC, the team consists of Darkhawk, Ricochet, Turbo (female) and Julie Power, with Phil Urich coordinating from their HQ. The team was sponsored by Rick Jones and, for a time, an impostor of Chamber was a member (revealed to the readers, but not to Excelsior, as a member of The Pride using an image-inducer). 

All this can be found in Runaways v2 #1-6. And here's hoping they crop up again in the remainder of the series ... I like 'em! 

(Begin arguments about how Julie Power being here conflicts with her presence in Power Pack v3 or X-Men/Power Pack...) 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 Dec 2005 12:33 pm    
By Somebody

Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
Excelsior are regular characters in RUNAWAYS. 
<<<

Well, they haven't appeared since #6 and won't appear again before #13 if that. I think that's stretching "regular" a bit, no? 

			*	*	*

Posted: 08 Dec 2005 02:59 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Jeph wrote: 
>>>
All this can be found in Runaways v2 #1-6.  
<<<

It can? Hmm. Who owes us an analysis of those issues? 
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 08 Dec 2005 09:52 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Oh my God, are you serious? I volunteered for that? 

Anyone want to take this assignment off my hands? I've read the issues in question, sure, but I'm not familiar enough with the characters and concept of Runaways to be able to fill in the gaps (what is this character's real name, who is that character talking about, what adventure are they referring to, where does this flashback go, etc.). 

Seriously, if someone more familiar with Runaways would like to cover this arc, have at it. 

By the way, I looked through MTU3 #15 in the shop today and that's not a male in the Turbo suit -- that's a badly-drawn female Turbo. The other character you were asking about is Julie Power ... and honestly, while avoiding spoilers, I'll say this: I'd wait until the whole arc is done before deciding if it's even worth chronologizing. I sense a large rewind/delete button looming. 

-Jeph! 

Paul, speaking of analyses, for the record I'm done up through Nightcrawler v3 #3.

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Posted: 08 Dec 2005 10:59 pm    
By Kevin W.
Director

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
In Marvel Team-Up v3 #15, we see that Darkhawk has formed a team called Excelsior in Los Angeles with Ricochet and others. Is this the first time this team has appeared? Does anyone know the identities of the other team members? M/TU3 15 shows a white guy wearing what appears to be a Turbo costume and a light brown-haired white woman wearing a dark blue costume with red gloves. Did I miss something? 
<<<

Good Lord, have you really not ever opened up an issue of Runaways?!? It's good stuff, dammit, check it out!!!  


Quote: 
>>>
Anyone want to take this assignment off my hands? 
<<<

I'd volunteer, but I'm still swamped with the Daredevil/Hulk/Punisher corner of the universe... 

Col. Fury maybe? 
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Posted: 09 Dec 2005 12:08 am    
By JD

I'm on it. I can probably do it by this week-end (and #7-8 should be done soon after that).

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Dec 2005 12:09 am    
By jephyork
Director

My hero!  I owe you a coke. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 09 Dec 2005 12:22 am    
By Col_Fury

Hey, good times! Things are pretty crazy at the store this time of year, so I wouldn't have been able to get to this until January anyway.(I'm in the middle of Deathlok Vol. 3, in the little spare time I have at the moment) 

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Kevin! And thanks for taking the book, JD!
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

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Posted: 09 Dec 2005 08:50 am    
By JD

Analysis for #1-6 just posted 

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 Dec 2005 07:29 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

JD wrote: 
>>>
Analysis for #1-6 just posted  
<<<

Way to go, JD! Thanks for jumping in. And thanks in advance for covering issues #7-8.  


Jeph wrote: 
>>>
Paul, speaking of analyses, for the record I'm done up through Nightcrawler v3 #3. 
<<<

All right! Thanks, Jeph.  


Kevin wrote: 
>>>
I'd volunteer, but I'm still swamped with the Daredevil/Hulk/Punisher corner of the universe...  
<<<

Believe me, Kevin. You're excused. You're doing a yeoman's job with the analyses.  


Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
I'm in the middle of Deathlok Vol. 3, in the little spare time I have at the moment 
<<<

Same yeoman job coming from you too, Col. I'm just now getting to your analyses of District X and Daredevil: Redemption. I was going to wait to see if I had questions on those and combine them with a thanks, but heck, a big thanks goes out to you too!  

Happy faces all around. It looks like a number of analyses are coming in in the next several days, so I'll hold off on my updates to the calls for analyses for completed and future story arcs. Maybe after Wednesday's comics are out... 


Kevin wrote: 
>>>
Good Lord, have you really not ever opened up an issue of Runaways?!? It's good stuff, dammit, check it out!!!  
<<<

Ah, man...this does look good. My wallet is emitting a groan. Hmm...can I afford to wait to find these issues in the quarter bin at Westfield's? 


Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Hey, good times! 
<<<

Indeed.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 09 Dec 2005 09:25 pm    
By Kevin W.
Director

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Ah, man...this does look good. My wallet is emitting a groan. Hmm...can I afford to wait to find these issues in the quarter bin at Westfield's? 
<<<

Well, sure, if the issues in question actually make it to the quarter bin. If Brian K. Vaughan has his way, Runaways vol. 2 #1 will be the "Giant Size X-men #1" for the new century! (he's stated that's his desire in interviews). 

Really, I knew it wasn't on your pull list, but I was just suprised you hadn't flipped through an issue. I expect the Excelsior team to be appearing in other places periodically. Shame about Chamber not really being a part of the team, (and now he never will be...)
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Posted: 10 Dec 2005 10:50 am    
By JD

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Ah, man...this does look good. My wallet is emitting a groan. Hmm...can I afford to wait to find these issues in the quarter bin at Westfield's? 
<<<

This is as good a place as any to mention the very cheap digests that Marvel has been producing for this series instead of TPBs. Amazon has them at $7.99 each (they reprint 6 issues each), which is 55% cheaper than buying the individual issues at cover price. 


Quote: 
>>>
Shame about Chamber not really being a part of the team, (and now he never will be...) 
<<<

Well, for me "Chamber" is what really made me interested in Excelsior. It also alleviated my fears that Vaughan had nothing new to say about the Runaways in this second volume and was just free-wheeling for the sake of it. #7-10 were a bit by-the-motions, I hope the plot comes back in #13.

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Posted: 26 Sep 2006 11:04 am    
By PaxHouse

Just in case you haven't heard the latest (especially for those that're planning to update Future Issues); recently announced by Marvel (at the Baltimore Retailer Conv.) is the News about Excelsior, in which will now be called (due to the naming conflict since Stan "The Man" Lee has contractional right to the name)....THE LONERS (in which will debut in January '07)...!! 

And yes, they're the same 'Team' that made their debut within RUNAWAYS(VOL II) #1-6..... 

Just thought you (Admins) here on the MB should hear this News, JIC......
_________________
PaxHouse.

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Thread 16

Posted: 26 Sep 2006 09:42 pm    Post subject: Doc Ock Miniseries
By Oedivanth

Hello everyone. Sorry to take you all away from your Civil War chronologicizing. I just wondered if there was any thought as to whether "Spider-Man and Doctor Octopus: Negative Exposure" and "Spider-Man and Doctor Octopus: Out of Reach" were canon. I admit to being a slave to the canon idea when it comes to reading Spidey and wanted to see if I could get an answer before purchasing these issues. Thanks for your time!

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Posted: 27 Sep 2006 08:50 am    
By PaxHouse

I've read both of those Spidey's Mini and I believe that both were intended to in canon {although those Two Mini also were released roughly about the same time as SPIDER-MAN 2; in which the villian was {of course}.....DOC OCK....!!}.....
_________________
PaxHouse.

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Posted: 27 Sep 2006 11:44 pm    
By SeanCurtin

"Out of Reach" fits into present-day continuity; IIRC, it's the first time that Doc Ock is seen with the movie-inspired redesign. "Negative Exposure" fits sometime after Peter had met Mary Jane, but (probably) before he started dating Gwen Stacy. The ending of "Year One" can't be reconciled with the ending of ASM 3 and so really can't fit into continuity, although the first two or three issues are prefectly consistent with Doc Ock's established back story (except that he's portayed as only being about fifteen years older than Peter). 

-Sean

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Thread 17

Posted: 13 May 2005 07:09 pm    Post subject: Human Torch; N @-1 fb
By Enda80

As discussed recently, C @6 shows the Invaders on a mission to Japan. Namor Annual#1 presents a fb to "the final days of World War II" in which the Invaders (The Human Torch and Toro, Namor, Spitfire, Captain America and Bucky) go to Bitburg, Germany to clear out a concentration camp. 

The problem is that World War II did not end until months later (V-J Day; the Shinto Imperialists fought on for the Kami). I am guessing that the author meant that this scene took place before V-E Day. 

It would seem that Captain America and Bucky (Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes) disappeared by May 2, 1945, so I would list this as an appearance of the Spirit of '76 and Fred Davis. 

BUCKY II/FRED DAVIS 
**N @1/1-FB 
**C @6-FB 
TB 39 
TB 40 
TB 49 
CV 1 
CV 2 
CV 3 


HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
CA '01-FB 
M/U 1-FB 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 
M/U 3 
**N @1/1-FB 
**C @6-FB 
M/SH 16....................problem this does not belong here; George Olshevksy declared in one of his Avengers Indexes that the battle with the Unhuman took place juste before the Human Torch went out of commission in the 1950's 
................................................ 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 27 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 28 
HUMAN TORCH 36 
HUMAN TORCH 37 
HUMAN TORCH 38 
CA COMICS 76 
CA COMICS 77 
CA COMICS 78 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 33 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 34 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 35 

MISS AMERICA/MADELINE JOYCE FRANK 
INV 39 
INV 40 
INV 41 
INV2 1 
INV2 2 
INV2 3 
INV2 4 
**N @1/1-FB 
**C @6-FB 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 50 
None of Miss America's listings are in italics, despite the cautionary note to that effect. 

SPIRIT OF '76/WILLIAM NASLUND 
INV 14 
INV 15 
CA@ 13 
WI? 4 
**N @1/1-FB 
ALL WINNERS 19 
CA@ 6-FB 
WI? 4 
CA@ 6 


SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MCKENZIE 
M/U 3 
WI? 4 
**N @1/1-FB 
**C @6-FB 
ALL WINNERS 19 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 21 
WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 20 
WI? 4 

TORO/TOM RAYMOND 
CA '01-FB 
M/U 1-FB 
CA '01-FB 
M/U 1-FB 
**N @1/1-FB 
**C @6-FB 
{M/SH 16}..............see note above; this takes place in the 1950's 
SAGAHT 4 
A 134-FB 
SUB-M 14-FB 

Avengers Index#7 confirms on page 20 that yes, the Unhuman story immediately preceded the flashback in Avengers I#134/AWC#42/Saga#4 where the Torch burned himself out.--Per Degaton 


WHIZZER/ROBERT L. FRANK 
INV2 4 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 
M/U 3 
**N @1/1-FB 
**C @6-FB 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 2 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 3 


By the way, I see that you include appearances in the tail end of the original Power Pack series of "Raymond the Flame Guy" as appearances by Toro. The latest handbooks are a little uncertain about that.

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 May 2005 08:00 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
As discussed recently, C @6 shows the Invaders on a mission to Japan. Namor Annual#1 presents a fb to "the final days of World War II" in which the Invaders (The Human Torch and Toro, Namor, Spitfire, Captain America and Bucky) go to Bitburg, Germany to clear out a concentration camp. 

The problem is that World War II did not end until months later (V-J Day; the Shinto Imperialists fought on for the Kami). I am guessing that the author meant that this scene took place before V-E Day. 
<<<

In America, World War II is generally considered to have started in September of 1939, and ended in August of 1945. That amounts to almost 2200 days. With that in mind, I would think "the final days" could include the last six months (~180 days), or perhaps even longer. Not sure that it affects any of your observations in this post, but.... 

And, presumably, by "C @6", you mean "CA@ 6." 

I think we're going to stick with our interpretation of Power Pack, for the time being, barring a disussion about *why* the handbooks are uncertain. The note about M/SH 16 is certainly valid, though. Thanks. 


watching: suns at mavericks

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Posted: 14 May 2005 07:57 pm    
By Enda80

Spitfire was also in that Namor Annual#1 fb so: 

SPITFIRE/LADY JACQUELINE FALSWORTH CRICHTON 
M/U 1-FB 
**N @1/1-FB 
M/CP 89/3-FB 
M/CP 89/3 
CA 253 
CA 254 
M/CP 42/3-FB 
N 12-FB 
N 11 
N 12

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Posted: 16 Sep 2006 11:51 pm    
By Col_Fury

Reviving an old thread: 

Namor Annual #1 had four stories. 

1. "the Origin of Namor, the Sub-Mariner" 
2. "Never Again(Subterranean Wars pt 5)" 
3. "the Potsdam Objective" 
4. "Day of Reckoning" 

The origin story doesn't reveal anything new, so I'm assuming by "N@1/1" he meant the first full story, where it's actually the second story presented in the comic. 

A quick recap of the FB in the second story: 

Namor, the Sub-Mariner Annual #1/2-FB pg16pn2-pg18 
Cap & Bucky, Torch & Toro, Namor, and Spitfire are in Bitburg, Germany liberating a concentration camp. Namor is disgusted and flies off on his own, discovering a mass grave of holocaust victims. 

-I'm not seeing Miss America or the Whizzer anywhere in this FB. 

-the final days of World War II is what the caption says. 
Bitburg's concentration camp was liberated in the real world on 15 April 1945, which would be considered within the final days of WWII. What If? #4 tells us that Cap & Bucky died on 18 April 1945, and if we take the real world date as reference, this would be an appearance for Steve Rogers & Bucky Barnes, as opposed to say, William Nasland & Fred Davis. 

A quick recap of the third story: 

Namor, the Sub-Mariner Annual #1/3 pg1-pg16 
The night before the Potsdam Conference, world leaders gather with their escorts at a meet and greet. Captain America escorts President Truman, Red Guardian escorts Premier Stalin, and Namor escorts himself. Churchill attends in an honorary capacity. Assassination attempts are made on Stalin & Truman, and the escorts find a group of Nazis who are attempting to ruin the conference. Theyre defeated, but William Nasland still doesnt like Communists, and Namor tries to calm things down, without much success. 

-the Potsdam Conference started on 17 July 1945, making this 16 July, if anyone cares. 

-it's stated specifically that this is Captain America II/William Nasland. 

-there's an origin FlashBack for the Red Guardian. 

Some placement suggestions: 

Captain America/ Steven Rogers 
... 
CA:SL2 12-FB pg31-pg33 
*N@ 1/2-FB 
CA@ 13-FB pg9-pg15 
... 

Bucky/James Buchanan Bucky Barnes 
... 
CA:SL2 12-FB pg31-pg33 
*N@ 1/2-FB 
CA:SL2 12 pg1-pg4, pg8, pg9pn2 
... 

HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
... 
WX2 14-FB (late 44) 
*N@ 1/2-FB 
... 

TORO/TOM RAYMOND 
... 
M/U 1-FB 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
*N@ 1/2-FB 
... 

SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE 
... 
WX2 14-FB (late 44) 
*N@ 1/2-FB 
... 

SPITFIRE/LADY JACQUELINE FALSWORTH CRICHTON 
... 
M/U 1-FB 
M/CP 89/3-FB 
*N@ 1/2-FB 
... 

M/CP 89/3-FB is during an air raid in Britain, which by April of '45 was over, so this N@ 1/2-FB apearance should follow that. 

I'm not entirely sure which Red Guardian this is yet, but I'm assuming Alexi. I don't have A 44 to check the FB yet, or BW: CW. However, this is what I can tell you, because of the footnote in CA@ 13: 

Red Guardian #? 
N@ 1/3-FB 
CA@ 13-FB 
N@ 1/3 

As for Namor's & Cap II's placement in N@ 1/3... I don't have access to All Winners 19 & 21,(I know they've been reprinted) and therefore don't know exactly how they intermix with What If...? #4, SAGASM 5, & SAGAHT 3. I hate to leave that up in the air, especially since I brought it up, so I hope to find copies of those soon. I would initially place N@ 1/3 after CA@ 6-FB which was in June 1945. 

CA@ 13 should be listed as CA@ 13-FB in William Nasland's chronology. 

Real-world people are coming relatively soon, I promise!
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

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Posted: 24 Sep 2006 08:02 pm    
By Col_Fury

I picked up Essential Avengers 2, and after reading A 43 & 44 and other various issues of Captain America & Avengers, this is apparently a new Red Guardian, or rather the first. 

Red Guardian II(Aliexi) was a brand new Red Guardian in Avengers 43-44, and the FlashBack in 44 showed him to be a test pilot, and married to the Black Widow. After his 'death,' he was then made into the Red Guardian, in the current day. 

Red Guardian III(Tania) was a woman, and was Red Guardian after Alexi, and IV & V both followed after that. 

The bit that confuses me is RED GUARDIAN/See Red Skull II. 

There's no way that Johann was the 'hero of Russia.' For one thing, Red Guardian was running around Berlin while Cap was fighting the Red Skull, and then showed up with Stalin later while the Red Skull was in suspended animation. So no, Johann Schmidt never posed as, or was, the Red Guardian. 

What I could see, is if the above means to say 'RED GUARDIAN/See Red Skull III.' Albert Malik was heading a spy ring in Algeria when called to be the 'new' Red Skull in 1953, and he was Russian. Has that been revealed anywhere? It doesn't say anything to the effect of 'Red Guardian became Red Skull' in Captain America Annual 13, which was the 'big history of the Red Skulls' issue. 

So my question is, was Albert Malik the Red Guardian before he was the Red Skull? And if so, where was that revealed?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

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Posted: 25 Sep 2006 03:44 am    
By Enda80

I will also have to contest that this issue establishes 
that Albert Malik served as the Red Guardian before he 
became the Red Skull. Yes, in the modern portion, 
someone reading Malik's diary finds an account of a 
meeting between Stalin and the original Red Guardian. 
However, that does not mean Malik was the Red 
Guardian, since he could have known about it through 
declassified documents, someone else could have been in the room with Stalin and the Red Guardian who communicated it to him (the issue does not claim Stalin was alone with the Red Guardian in the room), or Stalin later told Malenkov about the meeting and Malenkov told Malik. 


I e-mailed Roy Thomas. He did not recall intending the 
Red Guardian =Albert Malik. 

The story does not state that Stalin was alone in the 
room with the Red Guardian. Therefore, it is quite 
possible that Malenkov was there too and later told 
Malik about what happened.

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Sep 2006 09:50 pm    
By Col_Fury

So wait... You're saying that Captain America Annual 13 is what's tying Red Guardian to Albert Malik? 

I've done a bit of searching around the internet, and all I've been able to find are people saying they have a theory that Albert Malik was Red Guardian... but no one I could find pointed to a specific issue. And as I said above, there's nothing in CA@ 13 that says 'Albert Malik was Red Guardian.' 

Unless there's some other comic out there that ties the two together, all we have is a theory that Albert Malik was the Red Guardian. Therefore, I'll suggest that 'See Red Skull' after Red Guardian's entry be removed, and a chronology for the Red Guardian. 

Red Guardian 
N@ 1/3-FB 
CA@ 13-FB (04/45) 
{N@ 1/3} (07/45)
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

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Posted: 27 Sep 2006 03:10 am    
By Col_Fury

What If? 4 covers a little over a year, from April 1945 to mid/late 1946. Heres a breakdown: 

What If? #4 pg1-pg4 
Repeats Caps & Buckys death previously seen in Avengers 56. No new information. 
What If? #4 pg5pn1-pg5pn2 
The Watcher watches! 
What If? #4 pg5pn3-pg5pn4 
The Human Torch & Toro fly over Berlin. 
What If? #4 pg5pn5-pg6pn1 
Hitler tells his aide Otto that he & Eva want to be cremated. Torch & Toro break into the Fuhrerbunker and interrupt the suicide. 
What If? #4 pg6pn2-pg6pn6 
The Human Torch offers to save Hitler from the Russians, and a fair trial. Hitler refuses, attempts to blow up the bunker, and the Human Torch reacts. 
What If? #4 pg7pn2-pg7pn3 
Torch decides it might be better for the world to believe that Hitler committed suicide. 
What If? #4 pg7pn4-pg8pn1 
Namor fights Japanese submarines in the Pacific. 
What If? #4 pg8pn2-pg8pn5 
Spitfire & Union Jack save Sir Winston Churchill from assassins. 
What If? #4 pg9-pg10pn2 
Major Rawlings thanks everyone for coming, and informs the Invaders that Captain America & Bucky have died, and that President Truman wants to see the Invaders. 
What If? #4 pg10pn3-pg12 
The Human Torch, Toro, & Namor arrive at the White House where President Truman introduces them to the new Captain America & Bucky; William Nasland & Fred Davis. 
What If? #4 pg13-pg14 
Miss America & the Whizzer join the group, and they decide to stay together until the Japanese are defeated. 
What If? #4 pg15-pg17pn1 
With the war in Europe all but over, the Invaders focus their attacks on Japanese forces. Cap II & Bucky II, Whizzer & Miss America focus on the Japanese homeland, Torch & Toro fight in the outer islands, and Namor battles Kamikaze planes. 
What If? #4 pg17pn2 
The Enola Gay drops an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan. 
What If? #4 pg17pn3-pg17pn5 
Aboard the USS Missouri, Foreign Minister Mamoru Shigemitsu and General Yoshijiro Umezo officially surrender unconditionally, with General Douglas MacArthur representing the Allied Powers, ending the war. The Invaders receive a telegram from President Truman, requesting that they stay together under a new name: the All-Winners Squad! 
What If? #4 pg18pn1-pg18pn4 
Repeats All Winners 19, no new information. 
What If? #4 pg18pn5-pg34 
The All Winners decide to take a break, so Torch & Toro visit Horton, but theyre ambushed by Adam II! Patriot rescues them, and they tell him of Adam IIs plan to replace senatorial candidate John F. Kennedy with an android. The All Winners defeat Adam II, but Cap II dies, and Patriot replaces him as Cap III. 

All Winners 19 is squarely referenced as happening between pages of What If? 4,(17 & 18pn5) and Bucky II mentions Miss Americas new glasses. Miss America is wearing glasses in All Winners 21, but not 19, placing All Winners 21 after the end of What If? 4. 

All Winners presented several stories per issue, all the way up until the end. In issues 19 & 21, the first story showed the group together, then the following stories showed the individual characters missions, then the last story showed them regrouping and defeating the villain.(the pages restarted with 1 with each story) Also, there was no issue 20, so that should be removed from Namors chronology. 

All Winners #19 pg1-pg5 
Torch & Toro call the All Winners together because a museum has been broken into, and a note has been left for the group by Isbisa. Namor is accused of collaborating with the villain, so he storms off and Toro follows him. 
All Winners #19/2 pg1-pg8 
Cap & Bucky complete their mission. 
All Winners #19/3 pg1-pg6 
The Whizzer completes his mission. 
All Winners #19/4 pg1-pg8 
The Human Torch completes his mission. 
All Winners #19/5 pg1-pg5 
Miss America completes her mission. 
All Winners #19/6 pg1-pg7 
Namor & Toro complete their mission, and Namor apologizes to Toro for being a jerk. 
All Winners #19/7 pg1-pg4 
The All Winners regroup and compare notes, then defeat Isbisa from stealing an atom bomb. 

All Winners #21 pg1-pg3pn2 
Captain America calls the All Winners together to warn them of a threat from the future! 
All Winners #21-FB pg3pn3-pg4pn3 
Cap III & Bucky II attack Madame Death, who is being visited by a man from the future. Cap & Bucky start beating people up, but Madame Death & Future Man escape. 
All Winners #21 pg4pn4-pg4pn6 
The All Winners decide to split up across the globe to find out what Future Man is up to. 
All Winners #21/2 pg1-pg8 
Cap & Bucky stops Future Mans plans for Europe. 
All Winners #21/3 pg1-pg6 
The Whizzer stops Future Mans plans for South America. 
All Winners #21/4 pg1-pg8 
Namor stops Future Mans plans for Asia. 
All Winners #21/5 pg1-pg5 
Miss America stops Future Mans plans for Africa. 
All Winners #21/6 pg1-pg8 
The Human Torch & Toro stops Future Mans plans for North America. 
All Winners #21/7 pg1-pg4 
The All Winners regroup and attack Future Man & Madame Death. Cap defeats them by sending them into the past! 

Herere some relevant bits from Saga of the Human Torch, Saga of the Sub-Mariner, & Super Villain Team-Up 17: 

Saga of the Human Torch #2 pg18-pg19pn2 
The Invaders are informed of FDRs death, and the Human Torch is shocked. Union Jack & Spitfire have been sent to guard Sir Winston Churchill, Namor will be sent to the Pacific Theater to fight Kamikaze planes, and Cap & Bucky are to be sent to guard a top secret drone plane. The Human Torch & Toro will have a few minor missions, but in a week or two, will be sent to Berlin to capture Hitler! 
Saga of the Human Torch #2 pg19pn3-pg23 
Torch & Toro fight some Luftwaffe, then descend on Berlin. 
What If? #4 pg5pn3-pg5pn4 
The Human Torch & Toro fly over Berlin. 
Saga of the Human Torch #3 pg1-pg4pn4 
The Human Torch & Toro fly through Berlin as the Russians overtake the city. Meanwhile, Eva Braun poisons herself while Hitler prepares to shoot himself. 
What If? #4 pg5pn5-pg6pn1 
Hitler tells his aide Otto that he & Eva want to be cremated. Torch & Toro break into the Fuhrerbunker and interrupt the suicide. 
Saga of the Human Torch #3 pg5pn1 
Torch reminds Toro that Hitler doesnt understand English. 
What If? #4 pg6pn2-pg6pn6 
The Human Torch offers to save Hitler from the Russians, and a fair trial. Hitler refuses, attempts to blow up the bunker, and the Human Torch reacts. 
Young Men Comics #24-FB pg4pn4 
The Human Torch sets Hitler on fire, who orders his aide to tell the world that he committed suicide with his dying breath. 
Super-Villain Team-Up #17-FB pg14pn3-pg14pn4 
As Hitlers body burns, Arnim Zola transfers Hitlers mind into a waiting cloned brain. 
What If? #4 pg7pn2-pg7pn3 
Torch decides it might be better for the world to believe that Hitler committed suicide. 
Saga of the Human Torch #3 pg6pn6-pg6pn7 
The Human Torch & Toro leave Berlin as the Russians continue to overtake the city. 
Saga of the Sub-Mariner #5 pg17-pg18pn1 
As Russian soldiers march through a defeated Berlin, Namor, Human Torch & Toro, Union Jack, and Spitfire meet in London. Torch mentions that Hitler lied with his dying breath. 
What If? #4 pg10pn3-pg12 
The Human Torch, Toro, & Namor arrive at the White House where President Truman introduces them to the new Captain America & Bucky; William Nasland & Fred Davis. 
Saga of the Human Torch #3 pg7pn5 
President Truman thinks. 
What If? #4 pg13-pg14 
Miss America & the Whizzer join the group, and they decide to stay together until the Japanese are defeated. 
Saga of the Sub-Mariner #5 pg18pn5-pg19pn4 
Namor fights Kamikaze planes in the Pacific Theater. 
Saga of the Sub-Mariner #5 pg19pn5 
An atomic bomb is detonated over Hiroshima, Japan. 
Saga of the Human Torch #3 pg7pn6 
An atomic bomb is detonated over Nagasaki, Japan. 
Saga of the Sub-Mariner #5 pg20pn3-pg22 
After agreeing to stay with the group as the All Winners, Namor must first return to Atlantis. 

Saga of the Human Torch #3 pg7pn7-pg12pn6 
Repeats What If? 4, All Winners 19 & 21, no new information. 

Saga of the Sub-Mariner 6 places Sub-Mariner Comics 21(or at least the first story) after All Winners 19, and before the death of Cap II & All Winners 21. 

After all of that fun above, I can finally suggest a placement for CA@ 6-FB, and suggest some page/panel ranges for all these various issues. 

SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE 
 
WX2 14-FB (late 44) 
SAGAHT 2 
N@ 1/2-FB 
WI? 4 pg1-pg8 
SAGASM 5 pg17-pg18pn1 
WI? 4 pg9-pg17pn1 
CA@ 6-FB (06/45) 
SAGASM 5 pg18pn5-pg19pn4 
N@ 1/3-FB(07/45) 
WI? 4 pg17pn2-pg17pn5 
SAGASM 5 pg20pn3-pg22 
ALL WINNERS 19 
ALL WINNERS 19/6 
ALL WINNERS 19/7 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 21 
WI? 4 pg18pn5-pg34 
ALL WINNERS 21 
ALL WINNERS 21/4 
ALL WINNERS 21/7 
S-H2 22 
SAGASM 6 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 82 
N 20-FB pg14 

 

HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
 
WX2 14-FB (late 44) 
SAGAHT 2 pg18-pg19pn2 
N@ 1/2-FB 
SAGAHT 2 pg19pn3-pg23 
WI? 4 pg1-pg5pn4 
SAGAHT 3 pg1-pg4pn4 
WI? 4 pg5pn5-pg6pn1 
SAGAHT 3 pg5pn1 
WI? 4 pg6pn2-pg6pn6 
YOUNG MEN 24-FB 
SVTU 17-FB 
WI? 4 pg7pn2-pg7pn3 
SAGAHT 3 pg6pn6-pg6pn7 
SAGASM 5 pg1-pg19 
WI? pg9-pg16 
CA@ 6-FB (06/45) 
WI? pg17 
SAGASM 5 pg20-pg22 
ALL WINNERS 19 
ALL WINNERS 19/4 
ALL WINNERS 19/7 
WI? 4 pg18pn5-pg34 
ALL WINNERS 21 
ALL WINNERS 21/6 
ALL WINNERS 21/7 
S-H2 22 
 

TORO/TOM RAYMOND 
 
CA5 3-FB (08/44) 
SAGAHT 2 pg18-pg19pn2 
N@ 1/2-FB 
SAGAHT 2 pg19pn3-pg23 
WI? 4 pg1-pg5pn4 
SAGAHT 3 pg1-pg4pn4 
WI? 4 pg5pn5-pg6pn1 
SAGAHT 3 pg5pn1 
WI? 4 pg6pn2-pg6pn6 
YOUNG MEN 24-FB 
SVTU 17-FB 
WI? 4 pg7pn2-pg7pn3 
SAGAHT 3 pg6pn6-pg6pn7 
SAGASM 5 pg1-pg19 
WI? pg9-pg16 
CA@ 6-FB (06/45) 
WI? pg17 
SAGASM 5 pg20-pg22 
ALL WINNERS 19 
ALL WINNERS 19/6 
ALL WINNERS 19/7 
WI? 4 pg18pn5-pg34 
ALL WINNERS 21 
ALL WINNERS 21/6 
ALL WINNERS 21/7 
S-H2 22 
 

CAPTAIN AMERICA II/WILLIAM NASLUND(Spirit of 76) 
INV 14 
INV 15 
CA@ 13-FB 
CA 215-FB 
WI? 4 pg1-pg16 
CA@ 6-FB (06/45) 
CA@ 6 
N@ 1/3 (07/45) 
WI? pg17 
SAGASM 5 
ALL WINNERS 19 
ALL WINNERS 19/2 
ALL WINNERS 19/7 
WI? 4 pg18pn5-pg34 

(CA@ 6 should be moved forward to follow CA@ 6-FB, as from his perspective, it happened immediately afterwards. Also, CA 215-FB shows President Truman asking Naslund to be the new Captain America) 

CAPTAIN AMERICA III/JEFF MACE(Patriot) 
 
CA@ 13-FB 
WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 21-FB 
ALL WINNERS 21 
ALL WINNERS 21/2 
ALL WINNERS 21/7 
S-H2 22 
 

BUCKY II/FRED DAVIS 
WI? pg1-pg16 
CA@ 6-FB (06/45) 
WI? pg17 
SAGASM 5 
ALL WINNERS 19 
ALL WINNERS 19/2 
ALL WINNERS 19/7 
WI? 4 pg18pn5-pg34 
ALL WINNERS 21-FB 
ALL WINNERS 21 
ALL WINNERS 21/2 
ALL WINNERS 21/7 
S-H2 22 
CV 1-FB 
 

UNION JACK II/BRIAN FALSWORTH 
 
MSU 9 
SAGAHT 2 
WI? pg1-pg8 
SAGASM 5 
WI? pg9-pg34 
 

SPITFIRE/LADY JACQUELINE FALSWORTH CRICHTON 
 
M/CP 89/3-FB 
SAGAHT 2 
N@ 1/2-FB 
WI? pg1-pg8 
SAGASM 5 
WI? pg9-pg34 
 

WHIZZER/ROBERT L. FRANK 
 
COMPLETE COMICS 2 
WI? 4 pg1-pg16 
CA@ 6-FB (06/45) 
WI? pg17 
SAGASM 5 
ALL WINNERS 19 
ALL WINNERS 19/3 
ALL WINNERS 19/7 
ALL TEEN 20 
KID KOMICS 7 
KID KOMICS 10 
WI? pg18pn5-pg34 
ALL WINNERS 21 
ALL WINNERS 21/3 
ALL WINNERS 21/7 
S-H2 22 
 

MISS AMERICA/MADELINE JOYCE FRANK 
 
MISS AMERICA MAGAZINE 5 
WI? 4 pg1-pg16 
CA@ 6-FB (06/45) 
WI? pg17 
SAGASM 5 
ALL WINNERS 19 
ALL WINNERS 19/5 
ALL WINNERS 19/7 
ALL TEEN 20 
WI? pg18pn5-pg34 
ALL WINNERS 21 
ALL WINNERS 21/5 
ALL WINNERS 21/7 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 60 
 

HORTON, PROFESSOR PHINEAS T. 
... 
M/U 1 
WI? 4 
FF 238-FB 
...
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

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Posted: 27 Sep 2006 07:09 am    
By Enda80

Quickie note; contradictions exist between SVTU and Spider-Man Fear Itself as well as Fury#1 

As you noted, at some point Zola established a process by which a person could project their mind onto a cloned body . He presented this process to Adolf Hitler. One accounts show that in 1944 Zola had already transferred his mind into his current, ESP box headed body. 


Talking with the Red Skull, he presented him with a pill to use to place himself in suspended animation. Zola then presented Hitler with a completed cloned body to which he could transfer his mind before death. After Hitler walked out, Baron Strucker, a fugitive, entered the room. Strucker invited Zola to take part in the establishment of HYDRA. Since around 1944, Strucker would think of Zola in his ESP-box body in Marvel Universe#1-3 - this would support that Zola had switched bodies at this point. 


However, while another account does show Zola in his ESP box on the day that Hitler's original body died (Fear Itself), Hitler as the Hate-Monger would later recall Zola was still in his original body in SVTU. 


I remember that Zola once told Captain America that surgeons had extracted Hitler's brain and that he had preserved it to create a new body for it. This story appears now to be a ruse to hide the truth about the Hate-Monger. Since then, the truth behind the Hate-Monger has been discovered, and is known to Spider-Man, Silver Sable, and Nick Fury. 


Hitler, according to a soldier who was with him the day his original body died, supposedly recommended Zola's process to Baron Zemo ("like your Fhrer, Zemo, you will become... a God... Zola will see to that") . It appears that Zemo did not for some reason undergo the process.

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Sep 2006 12:43 am    
By Col_Fury

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
contradictions exist between SVTU and Spider-Man Fear Itself as well as Fury#1 

As you noted, at some point Zola established a process by which a person could project their mind onto a cloned body . He presented this process to Adolf Hitler. One accounts show that in 1944 Zola had already transferred his mind into his current, ESP box headed body.  
<<<

That 'one account' was Fury #1, which used a generic '1944' for WWII, which included Fury's encounter with Strucker in Cherbeaux,(pre-CS 2-4, which was '15 months' before M/U 1-3) Zola in his new body, & Hitler realizing that he's losing the war. All of these events span from '43 to '45, and the generic '1944' can be safely ignored. 


Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
Talking with the Red Skull, he presented him with a pill to use to place himself in suspended animation. Zola then presented Hitler with a completed cloned body to which he could transfer his mind before death. After Hitler walked out, Baron Strucker, a fugitive, entered the room. Strucker invited Zola to take part in the establishment of HYDRA. 
<<<

All of this is from Fury #1 pg9pn3-pg11. Also, both Hitler & the Red Skull voice concern in this scene that Germany's losing the war at this point, which would place this segment in 1945. Also, Hydra had already been around in various forms at this point,(M/U 1-3 places CS 2-4 '15 months' prior to M/U 1-3) and Strucker says as much here. They're actually talking about reforming Hydra. Shortly after this, Strucker is smuggled into Japan, where he starts to do just that, but he has to work his way back up in the ranks. 


Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
Since around 1944, Strucker would think of Zola in his ESP-box body in Marvel Universe#1-3 - this would support that Zola had switched bodies at this point.  
<<<

Not necessarily... 

Marvel Universe 1 shows the Red Skull discovering that Strucker is looking into suspended animation, and asks for samples for his own study. Later in Fury #1 pg9pn3-pg11, Zola presents the Skull with a 'suspension pill.' Also, Strucker is shown to be a fugitive in Fury 1 pg9pn3-pg11, and Strucker starts off in Marvel Universe 1-3 attending a Nazi meeting, and ends with turning traitor. With this in mind, it would place Marvel Universe 1-3 before Fury 1 pg9pn3-pg11. 

As for Strucker thinking of Zola in Marvel Universe 1-3... that's a fantasy scene of his of the future. We know that Zola will get a new body... and so does Strucker! He has books about the future, the fall of the Nazis, & the future of science. It's very possible that Zola's new body was mentioned, so it can be taken either way.(meaning Zola may not have switched bodies yet) 


Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
another account does show Zola in his ESP box on the day that Hitler's original body died (Fear Itself), Hitler as the Hate-Monger would later recall Zola was still in his original body in SVTU.  
<<<

The SVTU 17-FB can be chalked up to Hitler remembering details wrong. Or, he chose to remember Zola as still human. 

This seems to be the order of things: 

SGTF 29 
Strucker is targeted for death by Hitler 

Captain Savage 2-4 
Strucker's in good with Hydra. 

At some point, Strucker had to rejoin the Nazis. 

Marvel Universe 1-3 
Strucker attends a Nazi meeting, Red Skull learns of Strucker's research into suspended animation, Strucker turns traitor again, & loses a really big Hydra vessel. Now he has nowhere to go! 

SVTU 17-FB pg14pn1-pg14pn2 
Zola presents Hitler with a proposal: A mind transfer process, just in case. Zola is still human, Hitler's brain is energized, and expirements begin. 

FURY 1 pg9pn3-pg11 
Hitler checks on the progress of the process, Zola is now in a new body, & he shows Hitler a clone of himself. Strucker, a fugitive, makes a proposal concerning reforming Hydra. 

Spider-Man: Fear Itself-FB 
Hitler says he'll commit suicide today, Zola is still in a new body. 

WI? 4, SAGAHT 3, YOUNG MEN 24-FB, SVTU 17-FB pg14pn3-pg14pn4 
Hitler dies, his mind is transferred into a cloned brain. Apparently the cloned body thing wasn't ready yet, so just a brain had to do. 

FURY 1 pg12pn3-pg12pn6 
Strucker works his way back up the ranks in Hydra & takes over.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Sep 2006 09:51 am    
By Enda80

It is a bit scrunched, but you can see the page from Fear Itself here: 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryRoom.asp?GSub=9247 

http://www.lelands.com/App_Themes/Images/Auctions_Images/205/popups/C11695.jpg

			*	*	*

Thread 18

Posted: 20 Aug 2004 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Iron Man: Crash takes place in an alternate future
By ADMINISTRATOR

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
I don't believe that there are any characters in the MCP whose series or universes haven't interacted with the mainstream MU at some point, with the notable exception of the Ultimate and MC-2 universes. 
<<<

MC-2's not an exception. They're not in the MCP. 


watching: harold hogan in a coma

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Aug 2004 12:23 am    
By SeanCurtin

MC-2 does have a folder on the board, though. 

-Sean

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Posted: 21 Aug 2004 09:16 am    
By jephyork
Director

MC-2 *did* interact with the mainstream MU, didn't it? I remember an event where Spider-Girl travelled back in time to the early years of Spider-Man... 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Aug 2004 10:09 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Spider-Girl travelled back in time to the early years of her Spider-Man. 


watching: buffy

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Posted: 21 Aug 2004 10:19 am    
By jephyork
Director

Meaning, what? Has it been *definitively* shown, one way or the other, that that either was or was not "our" Spider-Man? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Aug 2004 11:39 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Not to my knowledge, one way or the other. It seems to me that if MC-2 is an alternate universe, or alternate timeline, then, without evidence to the contrary, we should assume it's an alternate universe--or alternate timeline--version of Spider-Man. 


watching: olympics

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Aug 2004 12:59 pm    
By SeanCurtin

I would personally tend to assume the opposite, unless there's evidence that MC-2 diverged from the main MU at some point before baby May died (or was kidnapped). 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Aug 2004 01:16 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

But without knowing the divergence point, why are we assuming it's an alternate timeline? I mean, this seems like a lot of assumptions to me. We're assuming an alternate timeline, we're assuming a divergence point at a particular time in that timeline, and we're assuming that's the "real" Spider-Man, without evidence. I think I stand by my post. When dealing with alternate universes/timelines, the burden of proof is on those contending it's the "real" version. 


watching: olympics

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Posted: 21 Aug 2004 03:02 pm    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

I don't read the book, but isn't there a SPIDER-GIRL story where she travels back in time and visits the mainstream Marvel Universe, thus establishing her own universe as at least a possible future? 

Also, wasn't the MC-2 line originally advertised as the future of the Marvel Universe? While that didn't stick (they never do), it at least indicates a creative intention that the universe was a possible future rather than something way off to the side.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Aug 2004 04:02 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
I don't believe that there are any characters in the MCP whose series or universes haven't interacted with the mainstream MU at some point, with the notable exception of the Ultimate and MC-2 universes. 
<<<


Administrator wrote: 
>>>
MC-2's not an exception. 
<<<


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
I don't read the book, but isn't there a SPIDER-GIRL story where she travels back in time and visits the mainstream Marvel Universe, thus establishing her own universe as at least a possible future? 
<<<

Yes, absolutely. Possible. And while that's still open to debate, if we can conclude that it was an alternate future, and that it was the mainstream Marvel Universe, rather than the past of the alternate future, MC-2 still wouldn't be an exception, because then they would have interacted with the mainstream Marvel Universe. 


watching: olympics

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Posted: 21 Aug 2004 09:54 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Administrator wrote: 
>>>
But without knowing the divergence point, why are we assuming it's an alternate timeline? 
<<<

We do know what the divergence point was: "Baby May doesn't die". Unless there's evidence that the timeline diverged earlier or later than that, we should assume that it's divergent like any other "What If" timeline. 

-Sean

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Posted: 21 Aug 2004 10:15 pm
By ADMINISTRATOR

I'm wary about debating the *facts*, because I know next to nothing about MC-2, but "baby May doesn't die" sounds less like a divergence point than it does a premise, like "Sif is Queen of Asgard." 

Do we have anything in the stories that gives us a divergence point, or has an editor (note the distinction from "promotional materials") told us that? 


watching: degrassi the next generation

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Posted: 21 Aug 2004 10:44 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Administrator wrote: 
>>>
I'm wary about debating the *facts*, because I know next to nothing about MC-2, but "baby May doesn't die" sounds less like a divergence point than it does a premise, like "Sif is Queen of Asgard." 
<<<

I'm not seeing the comparison - baby May was a miscarriage; her birth is the only possible point of divergence. 

-Sean

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Posted: 23 Aug 2004 12:19 am    
By John Simons

I'm probably about to get myself in trouble because I'm going to refer to a TPB I read a few years back (Revelations) but don't actually own. It's my recollection that Peter and MJ were told the baby was a miscarriage, but in actuality a nurse working for Osborn spirited her away. 

I think baby May could very easily be written back into the Spider-titles at any time, assuming JMS, Millar or Jenkins wanted Peter and MJ to become parents. 

Now depending on who dies in Avengers Disassembled, that could become a possible divergence point if it futzes up A-Next continuity.

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Posted: 23 Aug 2004 02:14 am    
By SeanCurtin

I dimly recall later stories revealing that the bundle that Osborn's agent was constantly carrying around, the one that everyone assumed was the baby, actually contained her pet cat. It was obviously initially intended for the bundle to be hiding the baby, but the editors (or Byrne, if he was there by then) decided that a dead baby was preferable to making Peter a parent. It was never confirmed that that was actually May, and nothing will confirm that she's actually dead short of a flashback showing her body, which I can only assume we'll never see. 

-Sean

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Posted: 23 Aug 2004 01:49 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Okay, here's my take on alternate timelines, futures, and canonicity. 

Since there is no "one set future" for the Marvel Universe, stories set in the future can't occur in an "alternate future". There's no such thing, in the sense that we define "alternate timeline" to mean "existing alongside the 'real' timeline". 

Future stories either exist in a "possible future", or, for lack of a better term, a "divergent" future -- a future that either has already diverged from the current MU, or one that isn't possible -- one that clearly could not have flowed from the current Marvel Universe. 

For example -- the various "The End" specials are, by design, series meant to be possible futures -- at least at the time of publication. "X-Men: the End", for example, clearly is a possible future as of the end of Morrison's run -- Scott and Emma are together (and have had children), as just one example. Now, if Scott and Emma ever break up in the mainstream books, "X-Men: the End" will no longer exist in a possible future, but in a divergent future. 

However, even though the story is now a divergent future, if the series contains any flashbacks to new events prior to the end of X #154, those flashbacks are, in all likelihood, quite canon. As Russ said -- it's a question of having a point of divergence. 

Everything I've said is fairly obvious stuff -- but I'm trying to show a contrast between how we (or, how I, anyway) deal with future stories as opposed to "alternate timeline" stories. 

There are some stories, set in the present of an alternate world, where we look at them and say "this world split off the Marvel Universe at point X." Various stories from What If spring to mind, as in many cases the Watcher points to a specific point of divergence. 

There are other stories, such as "Professor X and the X-Men" and "X-Men: Children of the Atom", where we just decide, "these stories are not canon." We don't look at them and say "the 'COTA' universe diverged from the Marvel Universe at a certain point" ... we just say "bzzt. Non-canon." 

So, some stories set in an alternate *present* we just toss out as non-canon. But I tend to give stories set in the *future* the benefit of the doubt ... unless they're glaringly non-canon (a world of talking animals, for example) or have other clues to their divergence points, I tend to assume that the majority of the future stories are intended to be *possible* futures of the Marvel Universe, at the time they're published. 

And that's what I assumed about the MC-2 universe: that, at the time of its launch, it was intended to be -- or could be interpreted as -- a still-possible future of the main MU. 

As Sean says, the divergence point seems fairly clear -- baby May is born healthily. Therefore, unless there's anything in the MC-2 books that specifically contradicts the status quo at that time, I assume that, rather than being "the future of an alternate universe" or "a non-canon, future universe", MC-2 splits off of the Marvel Universe at that point. 

Meaning that any flashbacks or scenes set BEFORE that point, are quite likely part of the mainstream Marvel Universe. 

At least that's my take. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 23 Aug 2004 02:46 pm    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

I agree about flashbacks (and we'll have to remember to get back to those WOLVERINE: THE END flashbacks, which interweave with early issues of ORIGIN). If a story is being held out as a possible future of the Marvel Universe, it follows that any flashback to an event prior to the time of publication is being held out as an event from the past of the Marvel Universe, since the point of divergence must come later. It strikes me as equivalent to doing a story in one of the core books with a framing sequence set in the far future, and narrating the story as a flashback - the flashback would remain a canonical part of the MU.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 23 Aug 2004 10:55 pm    
By Kevin W.
Director

Another good example may be Incredible Hulk #467, (Peter David's last issue on the title). In it, we see a future story narrated by a Rick Jones of the future. The elder Rick tells about the Hulk's fate after the death of Betty. Now, I notice that we do indeed have the flashbacks from that issue involving the funeral for Betty are indeed listed in the MCP. Yet everything else in flashbacks in this issue isn't. Now this is more than likely a "divergent point" future, because the Rick Jones shown in this issue doesn't match the Rick of the Captain Marvel title, (and he certainly doesn't resemble the elder Rick Jones shown in the final issue of Avengers Forever!) 

So here we have counted as "in continuity" the scenes for Betty's funeral. Yet everything else in this issue that's set in the future has been thrown at the window... 

This is some sort of precident, I feel, for how we should handle similar situations, (like with the Wolverine: The End incident...) How much bearing this might have on how we classify MC-2, I'm unsure...
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Posted: 25 Aug 2004 04:19 am    
By Enda80

In the same vein; 

I mentioned a while ago how I thought that What Ifs would present a challenge because What If worlds are supposed to be the same as Earth-616 up until the point of divergence. This means that any event depicted in a What If story that takes place before the point of divergence, such as a flashback, would have taken place on Earth-616. 

Well, What If I#18 features a flashback to Agamotto finding the Eye of Agamotto.....and this occurs in a timeframe from before the point of divergence. 

Any thoughts?

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Posted: 25 Aug 2004 05:12 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

Canon, I'd say. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 25 Aug 2004 08:54 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Sooooo ... MC2. Anyone agree with me that it's a future that diverged at or around Spectacular #240 and "Revelations"? 

More importantly, anyone know of any evidence to the contrary? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 26 Aug 2004 08:12 pm    
By Kevin W.
Director

I'll say it certainly SOUNDS like a divergent timeline to me...but I'm no expert on this period in Spiderman history... 

If only Marvel would address this issue...oh sure, they'll bring up Gwen Stacy's kids, but Mary Jane's kid? Lost in Limbo... 
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Posted: 27 Aug 2004 02:42 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

The current orthodoxy, judging from the recent Official Handbooks, is that the child was stillborn. There is no child out there.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: 28 Aug 2004 09:31 pm    
By Starman

The divergence point seems to be just before Norman "Green Goblin" Osborn initiates the Gathering of Five. 

More about this you can read in the review of Spider-Girl #49 on SpiderFan.org 

http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/reviews/spidergirl/049.html
_________________
- Stefan 

"When it comes to reassuring a traumatized 19-year-old, I'm about as expert as a palsy victim doing brain surgery with a pipe wrench." 
- John Hartigan in Sin City (2005)

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Mar 2005 10:58 am    
By ChastMastr

Just bumping this thread up - isn't there a team-up coming between Earth-616 and the MC2 future?

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Mar 2005 08:14 pm    
By Kevin W.
Director

Yes, but there is some question as to wether or not this team up is going to be "canon". So we should probably wait and see before discussing it much further...
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Mar 2005 09:01 pm    
By jephyork
Director

How do you bump up a thread in a forum with only two threads? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 31 Mar 2005 03:57 pm    
By ChastMastr

Well, so people interested can see it in the "new posts" thingy...  

David 
meant well

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Oct 2005 12:13 pm
By scottandrewhutchins

Howard the Duck appeared as Master Of Quack-Fu in J2 #11. Does that count for anything?

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Oct 2005 07:02 pm    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

As an appearance of Howard? No, alternate futures don't count. And the HANDBOOK takes the line that MC2 isn't even an alternate future, but just a parallel world. (Which, to be fair, follows inexorably from the idea that MC2 takes place in the present too.)
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Apr 2006 03:57 pm    
By Andy Grant

MC2 absolutely did have a divergence point of the end of the Clone Saga, It started out as an issue of What If? that was then reprinted as Spider-Girl #0. The plot of Spider-Girl has been consistently littered with dangling threads from the Clone Saga. It was the main reason I bought it, because I liked the Clone Sage and I'm proud to say so!

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Apr 2006 08:27 am    
By Crazy Penguin

The divergence point was The Gathering of the Five/The Final Chapter, as shown in Spider-Girl #49. Anything published after that tends not to count in MC2 continuity (even a lot of untold tales and retcons, such as Aunt May having never really died and Gwen having Norman's babies).

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Apr 2006 09:12 am    
By jephyork
Director

Wow, an MC2 post. Ballsy! 

Welcome to the boards, Andy! 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Apr 2006 11:05 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Crazy Penguin wrote: 
>>>
Anything published after that tends not to count in MC2 continuity (even a lot of untold tales and retcons, such as Aunt May having never really died and Gwen having Norman's babies). 
<<<

I like it already. 


watching: live from

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Apr 2006 09:09 am    
By Andy Grant

Wow, that's an interesting question. 
If a divergent timeline refuses to accept retcons that appeared after the divergence point, even when they affect chronology before the divergence point, is it still a divergent timeline? Are the retcons proof of Immortus tampering with the timelines and pruning away the divergence? Do we have a term for a flow of time that becomes an ox bow lake?

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Apr 2006 09:14 am    
By jephyork
Director

I'm not sure what an "ox bow lake" is, but my interpretation would be that the alternate timeline in question actually diverged BEFORE we think it did. 

(An example would be the insanely confusing "Days of Future Past" -- which originally diverged at UX #141, then was later rewritten to have diverged at UX #137 ... then AGAIN so it diverged at UX #101... etc etc.) 

However, in the specific case of MC2, just because the stories never mentioned Gwen's babies doesn't mean the timeline had to have diverged before she had them -- it just means they were never mentioned. Ditto Aunt May -- the fact that she was never discovered to be alive doesn't mean that she actually died in that universe. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Apr 2006 09:47 am    
By Andy Grant

You mean she's still in that cupboard? 
Bet she whiffs a bit by now! 
Poor old (fake) Aunt May...

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Apr 2006 11:11 am    
By Somebody

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
I'm not sure what an "ox bow lake" is 
<<<

When a river cuts off a meander and goes straight on, the now-still meander is called an "oxbow lake."

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Apr 2006 01:58 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Thanks! 

Now, what's a "meander"? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Apr 2006 04:00 pm    
By Somebody

Where the river takes a curving path over flat ground.

			*	*	*

Posted: 26 Apr 2006 05:03 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Thanks! 

Say, this is the most action the MC2 forum has had yet! 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2006 01:11 pm    
By Andy Grant

I've been thinking about this a bit more. 

Let's say currently we exist on the first knuckle of my second finger. 
I borrow Dr Doom's time machine, and travel back down the timestream to the palm of my hand, where I beat up Blackbeard the pirate and create a divergent timeline which is my middle finger. I travel back to the first knuckle and am disappointed to find my stash of pirate booty is hidden in a cave on the wrong finger and I'm not rich after all. 

So far, so good. 

Now, I carry on having adventures until I reach the second knuckle, at which point Howard Mackie gets given my book and throws in a retcon way, way back at my elbow! However, my spin-off book which followed the adventures of people seeking my hidden pirate gold on my middle finger doesn't acknowledge this retcon. How can this be? 

(This is where the analogy gets tricky, as it requires me to have more than one hand growing out of my elbow. Kinda icky, but in a world of mutants, fair play) 

I suggest that the creation of a retcon is, in itself, an act of divergence. But, one where we subsequently follow the divergent universe instead of returning to the original. 

So, of the two hands growing out of the elbow in my left arm, the first of which I use to hold my cup of tea and the second to hold a biscuit, Fantastic Andy #1 was set on Hand-tea (pointy finger), Pirate Gold #43 was set on Hand-tea (middle finger), but Fantastic Andy #250 upwards were set on Hand-biscuit (pointy finger). 

There's an unpublished version of Pirate Gold set on Hand-biscuit which does take Mackie's retcon into account, but we never get to see it, just as we never get to see the non-retcon issues of Fantastic Andy which continue to occur on Hand-tea. 

This has the added benefit that the "original" universe still exists out there (ie. where Aunt May is still dead.) and neatly sidesteps having to create metaphysical reasons why branches that have been pruned from the multiversal-tree are still floating in midair. 

Any thoughts?

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Sep 2006 10:59 pm    
By michaelyuri

The way I look at it, there are two important reasons that we would like to know whether MC-2 has a specific divergence point from the main Marvel Universe. 

First, it allows us to provide a fuller chronology for MC-2 characters who existed in the mainstream MU. For example, if we determined exactly when MC-2 diverged, then we could basically take all of Peter Parker's chronology up to that point and transplant it into the MC-2 Peter Parker chronology. Or alternatively, add a link at that point in the Peter Parker chronology which would direct readers to the divergent MC-2 chronology. 

Second, it opens up the possibility that flashbacks (or time travel) in MC-2 stories will reveal new scenes that occurred in the mainstream MU, and thus belong in the mainstream MU chronologies. 

Unfortunately, the further back we have to push the divergence point to accomodate retcons that aren't shared, the less useful the connection is for either of those purposes. And if we can't pinpoint the divergence to any particular point in time, then we can't be sure which events are shared between the two timelines. 

Unless Marvel gives us a good reason to believe otherwise, I tend to think that we're better off viewing MC-2 as a completely separate universe rather than diverging from the mainstream MU. I'll explain my reasons in another post. 

-Mike

			*	*	*

Posted: 24 Sep 2006 12:04 am    
By michaelyuri

There are several reasons that I believe MC-2 should be treated as wholly separate from the mainstream MU, rather than a divergent timeline. 

1. Historical setting 

The MC-2 books are set 15 years after the birth of May Parker. When the first MC-2 books were published, very little time had passed in the mainstream MU since MJ's labor, yet the MC-2 books were set in the present, rather than the future. This was later explained by editorial statements claiming that the Age of Heroes in the MC-2 universe occurred 15 years earlier than it did in the mainstream MU. 

In my mind, this is the least important reason - I mention it only for completeness. Because of Marvel's sliding timescale it is not unusual for stories that occur side by side in a character's chronology to be originally set in different decades. MC-2 is basically the flip side of that. I'm perfectly comfortable disregarding this type of time discrepancy, and the editorial explanations could be seen as just an attempt to pacify confused MC-2 readers who weren't used to the bizarre passage of time in Marvel comics. 

2. Retcons 

As has already been pointed out, Aunt May's death in the mainstream MU was inherited by MC-2, but the later retcon that undid it apparently never occurred in MC-2. This may not be fatal to the divergence theory -- it is conceivable that the retcon could have occurred in MC-2, but post-divergence the MC-2 characters just never found out that Aunt May was actually still alive. 

Is there any reason this couldn't work? Are there any other significant MU retcons that aren't reflected in MC-2? If so, then we either have to abandon the divergence theory, or push it back before the retcon. 

3. Other characters 

Both J2 and Wild Thing are very close to May Parker's age. By the time May Parker was born (hypothetical divergence point), it seems likely that they both would have at least been conceived. J2 was born after Juggernaut reformed and married Sachi Yama, an event that I don't think occurred in the mainstream MU. Wild Thing is the daughter of Wolverine and Elektra. It seems likely that the divergence point would have to be pushed back far enough to allow these relationships/conceptions to occur. 

Furthermore, Wild Thing has a (presumably older) half-brother, Sabreclaw. Wolverine is the father, but the mother is unrevealed. If he is indeed older, then the divergence point must be early enough to accomodate his birth, since he did not exist in the mainstream MU. 

Finally, in the MC-2 timeline Hank Pym and Janet van Dyne had a son and daughter, Hope and Henry Pym. They are both portrayed as adults, although their exact ages are unclear. The divergence point would have to be early enough to accomodate them. 

4. Authorial intent & Marvel's stance 

It is clear that in the beginning MC-2 was intended to be essentially identical to the mainstream MU up to the point of May's birth. It was referred to as a "possible future" of the MU at that point in time, which sounds to me like a divergent future. However, if retcons or older characters make this impossible, it's not clear that the creators would still choose to view it as a divergent timeline, as opposed to, for example, a similar but not identical parallel universe. 

Despite the early description as a possible future, the editors' later statements explaining the time discrepancy seem to imply that they don't feel very strongly about it being a divergent future. Also, Tom DeFalco has said that he views MC-2 as having no impact on the mainstream MU. This seems to imply that new information revealed in MC-2 flashbacks should not be assumed to be valid for the mainstream MU. 


In conclusion, I think we should treat MC-2 as entirely separate and distinct from the mainstream MU, unless and until we receive some indication from Marvel as to how the two are related. 

-Mike

			*	*	*

Thread 19

Posted: 01 Sep 2006 09:05 pm    Post subject: X-Statix 21-25
By Dhall

Can someone please help out, with where these issues fall into Avengers chronology? The team are all in thier classic costumes, and consists of Captain America, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Scalret Witch, and Ant-Man. 

Thanks! 

Dave H 


X-Statix 21 
June 2004 

Vivisector 
Venus Dee Milo 
Mr. Sensitive/Orphan II/Smith, Guy 
Doop 
The Anarchist 
Dead Girl 

Captain America 
Thor 
Iron Man 
Hawkeye 
Scarlet Witch 
Ant-Man 

Loki 

While the rest of the team are in Russia, looking for a new owner, Orphan and Venus hold a press conference. Captain America watches them on TV. A reporter makes the comment that Cap said that X-Statix were responsible, and warned of the danger should Doop fall into the wrong hands. Meanwhile, Russian terrorists have snatched Doop, and have removed his brain, and are using Doop as a weapon to keep the team at bay. Orphan decides they will need to go the Avengers for help. The Avengers have dressed up in their classic costumes for the occasion. The teams go in and rescue Doop, and nearly come to blows. Cap reveals the Doop was built near the end of the Cold War. Then Doops brain explodes. Now the Avengers and X-Statix must search (and fight each other) for the pieces of Doops brain. 

X-Statix 22 
June 2004 

Vivisector 
Venus Dee Milo 
Mr, Sensitive/ Orphan II 
The Anarchist 
Dead Girl 

Scarlet Witch 
Captain America 

Tike searches for a piece of Doops brain, Cap shows up, they fight, Cap knocks him down, but not out. Cap gets the brain, but Tike shows up to fight again. He manages to wrap Cap up in goo and grab the brain, but the locals tackle him. Meanwhile Scarlet Witch, and Dead Girl both look for a brain piece on the USS McKinley. Dead Girl manages to break Wandas concentration on her hex-bubble. Once that is done, Wanda has no choice but to leave the toxic chemicals, leaving the brain to Dead Girl. 

X-Statix 23 

July 2004 

Vivisector 
Hawkeye 
Venus Dee Milo 
Ant-Man 

In Africa, Vivisector goes after a brain piece. Hawkeye shows up, and they tussle, but Myles cant bring himself to hit Hawkeye. Hawkeye shoots him with a sedative arrow. Hawkeye has made a deal with rebels, if he helps them take over the capital, they will give him the brain. Myles tries to make a deal with Hawkeye, to get him the brain, but Hawkeye hits him with the partner routine. They go after the brain, but Hawkeye takes it. In Antartica, Venus Dee Milo faces Ant-Man. Ant-Man attacks Venus from the inside. But Venuss subconscious tackles Ant-Man, and in the end they flip for the brain, and Venus wins. 

X-Statix 24 
August 2004 

Mr. Sensitive 
Iron Man 
Surrender Monkey/ Bentley, Brad 
Venus Dee Milo 
Captain America 


Iron Man Vs. Mister Sensitive. They fighjt, but as they are at the Church of the Naked Truth, the naked guy says he will only discuss it with whomever strips. This guy is working with Surrender Monkey. Outside, both Iron Man and Smith strip. Then they fight, then the crowd strips Surrender Monkey, and it turns out that hes a rouge CIA Agent. Tony and Guy go for their clothes, but one of the pressure points Guy hit earlier, is delayed and hits Tony while he suits up. Venus comes for Guy, and they get ready to leave with the brain. Guy decides to leave it with Tony to prove that Iron Man is wrong about him. 

X-Statix 25 
September 2004 

The Valkyriur: 
Hilda 
Mista 
Sangrida 

Thor 
Doop 

Loki 
Iron Man 
Captain America 
Scarlet Witch 
Hawkeye 
Ant-Man 

Mr. Sensitive 
Vivisector 
Dead Girl 
Venus Dee Milo 
The Anarchist 

Thor fights Doop, but wakes the Valkyriur. The rest of the two teams show up. They nearly fight, but then X-Statix decides to turn over the brain. This convinces Cap that X-Statix can be trusted with the responsibility of Doop. Back at the X-Statix tower, the team thinks about breaking up. 

Chronology: 

The Anarchist 
X-Statix 20 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 22 
**X-STATIX 25 

Dead Girl 
X-Statix 20 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 22 
**X-STATIX 25 

Doop 
X-Statix 20 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 25 





Mr. Sensitive/Orphan II/Smith, Guy 
X-Statix 20 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 24 
**X-STATIX 25 

Venus Dee Milo 
X-Statix 20 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 22 
**X-STATIX 23 
**X-STATIX 24 
**X-STATIX 25 

Vivisector 
X-Statix 20 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 22 
**X-STATIX 23 
**X-STATIX 25 


Ant-Man 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 23 
**X-STATIX 25 

Captain America 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 22 
**X-STATIX 24 
**X-STATIX 25 


Hawkeye 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 23 
**X-STATIX 25 

Iron Man 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 24 
**X-STATIX 25 

Scarlet Witch 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 22 
**X-STATIX 25 

Thor 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 25 

Loki 
**X-STATIX 21 
**X-STATIX 25 


SURRENDER MONKEY/ Bentley, Brad 
XSTATIX 13-FB 
XSTATIX 14 
**X-STATIX 24

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Sep 2006 09:32 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Can someone please help out, with where these issues fall into Avengers chronology? 
<<<

For my theory, check out July 15-18 of Year 22 on the Marvel Calendar (link at bottom of this web page).
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 20

Posted: 03 Sep 2006 09:18 pm    Post subject: Marvel Spotlight v2 #9
By Dhall

Marvel Spotlight v2 #9 

Coffin,Raymond 
Coffin, Steve 
Muffin 
Mister E 


When the Earth is threatened, the Unipower chooses a champion to defend it, as Captain Universe. As his father is now too old, and sufferse from a heart attack when the unipower tries to choose him, Steve Coffin becomes the next Captain Universe. He uses his powers to thwart a shadow creature, named Mister E, who steals a space shuttle and tries to make shadow slaves out of the human race. 

**CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/ COFFIN, RAYMOND 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 12 
M/SPT2 9 

**CAPTAIN UNIVERSE II/ COFFIN, STEVE 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 12 
M/SPT2 9 

**MISTER E 
M/SPT2 9 

**MUFFIN 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 12

			*	*	*

Thread 21

Posted: 04 Sep 2006 04:33 pm    Post subject: Marvel Spotlight V2 #10
By Dhall

Marvel Spotlight V2 #10 

January 1981 

Captain Universe IV/Dodgson, Clare 
Captain Universe III/Stanford, Ann (Dodgson) 
Nemesis/ Stanford, Edward 
Stanford, Jenny 
Stanford, Johnny 
Unipower 
Rooney, Mike 


Testifying at a trial, private detective Clare Dodgson gives enough evidence to put two criminals away. However their boss Nemesis is still around. Criminals kidnap the D.A., who is Clares brother-in-law. They also take over their house, taking Ann and her children hostage. Clare goes in through a window, and fights the criminals while the kids escape. Ann rushes back in to help, but then both sisters are contacted by the Unipower and become Captain Universe. They fight the hoods, then go after some others for information that eventually leads them to Nemesis hideout. Nemesis flees, but the ladies track him down, and expose him, as Anns husband, Edward, the District Attorney. They fly home, and the Unipower deserts them. 

Note: Since this issue was published in 1981, the Nemesis from Alpha Flight should be pushed back to II and III.

			*	*	*

Posted: 04 Sep 2006 04:44 pm    
By Somebody

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
Note: Since this issue was published in 1981, the Nemesis from Alpha Flight should be pushed back to II and III. 
<<<

II, III, and V (IV being Holocaust), surely... 

Ah, AF3's not been included yet...

			*	*	*

Thread 22

Posted: 04 Sep 2006 04:54 pm    Post subject: Marvel Spotlight v2 #11
By Dhall

Marvel Spotlight v2 #11 
March 1981 

Captain Universe V/ Walsh, Monty 
Carboni, Guido 
Unipower 
Jameson, J. Jonah 
Spider-Man/ Parker, Peter 


A cat burglar named Monty Walsh, steals from a mob boss. The boss comes home early and catches Monty escaping. His men shoot Monty, and he falls from his rope. Then Monty gets the Unipower. Monty sets out to smash Carbonis rackets, and put him out of business. Eventually, Monty goes after Carboni himself. He corners him in Carbonis office, explains who he is, and that he plans to kill Carboni, and take over his mob. This being not the purpose that the Unipower had in mind for the Captain Universe power, it pulls out, leaving Monty exactly as it found him, dying of gunshot wounds to the chest. The police break in, and find Montys body, and arrest Carboni. 

Note: JJJ and Spider-Man appear in this issue, off panel, at the Daily Bugle, but their word balloons can be seen. JJJ is telling Peter that Captain Universe is a selfless soldier of decency unlike that public menace Spider-Man.

			*	*	*

Thread 23

Posted: 04 Sep 2006 06:34 pm    Post subject: Micronauts
By Dhall

Micronauts  Vol .1 1-59, X-Men Vs. Micronauts, Micronauts Annual 1,2, Micronauts Vol. 2 1-20 

Micronauts Annual 1 
Space Glider/ Rann 
Biotron 
Galactic Defender (also in fb) 
Mari 
Argon 
Microtron 
Oberon 
Baron Karza 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Shaitan 

Time Traveler narrates three tales: 

First tale: Biotron wakes Rann to tell him something strange is going on in the region of space they are in. (This story takes place after the flashback in Micro 7) They land on a planet, and face Galactic Defender. In their fight, his helmet is shattered, and he breathes the air, which kills him, but not before he narrates a flashback. 
FB: his people put themselves in suspended animation to remain young, but they all die. Galactic Defender is the last of his kind. 

Second Tale: Mari and her family are enjoying their day, but their father is filled with foreboding. Karza comes to the royal garden to taunt them. Acroyear and Bug are brought in for the gladiatorial games. Karza kills both of Mari and Argons royal parents. Mari and Argon escape. 

Tale Three: Karza presides over the gladiatorial games, while Bug and Acroyear fight creatures. 


Micronauts 1 

Jan. 1979 

Prince Argon 
Marionnette/ Princess Mari 
Oberon (Argons horse) 
Microtron 
Shaitan 
Baron Karza 
Biotron 
Commander Arcturus Rann 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Time Traveler 

A rebellion has broken out on Homeworld, and the hereditary rulers have been killed. The people prefer Baron Karzas promise of immortality. Karza is able to capture Prince Argon, but not before he summons a Time traveler to lead Mari to safety. Commander Rann and Biotron return from a thousand year space voyage to Homeworld, and are met by Dog Soldiers, and are captured. He is sent to the Pleasure Pits, where he meets Bug and Acroyear, who rescue him from other prisoners. They are thrown into the arena, but manage to escape, with the help of the underground, and to meet up with Mari. Karza allows them to reach the Endeavour, and they take off. 

Micronauts 2 

Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 

Time Traveler 
Baron Karza 
Prince Argon 
Shaitan 

Coffin, Steve 
Muffin (Steves dog) 

The Endeavour has breached the space wall to Earth, where the crew find themselves to be very tiny! They marvel at a swing set, and run away from a dog. Meanwhile, Karza announces his intention to experiment on Argon. The crew meet Steve Coffin. Shaitan 
Follows them threw the spacewall and attacks. Steve is able to destroy most of the ships while the Endeavour escapes. 

Micronauts 3 
March 1979 

Coffin, Steve 
Coffin, Raymond 
Muffin 
Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Baron Karza 
Duchess Belladonna 
Prince Argon 
Oberon 
Prometheus, Phillip - BTS 

Steve attempts to explain the battle to his dad, Ray who doesnt believe him, until he finds a tiny body. Shaitan Continues to pursue the Endeavour. While the crew take the fight to him, Time Traveler appears to tell Mari about a tracking device hidden on the ship. Duchess Belladonna comes to the body banks, to get a new body. Bug has been left behind at the Coffin residence. 

Micronauts 4 
April 1979 

Major Dark 
Slug 
Baron Karza 
Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Muffin 
Coffin, Steve 
Coffin, Ray 
Prometheus, Phillip 
Jenkins, Abner 
Shaitan 


On Homeworld, Karzas forces wipe out rebels. A rebel leader, Slug is captured along with a group of rebels. One dies, so that Slug can remain hidden. On Earth, Bug hitches a ride to the Cape, with the Coffins who have some battle damaged ships and dead pilots in a shoebox. Meanwhile, the rest of the Micronauts search for Bug. Shaitan returns to the Microverse in failure. Karza severs their alliance, and removes the Thoughtwash, which keeps the Acroyear people believing that Prince Acroyear is dead. 

Micronauts 5 
May 1979 

Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 

Muffin 
Coffin, Steve 
Coffin, Raymond 
Prometheus, Phillip (also in fb, before his first app.) 
Baron Karza 
Slug 
Duchess Belladonna 
Argon 
Oberon 

The Micronauts follow Bug to the Cape. Mari hitches a ride on Muffin, while the rest of the team finds an entrance shaft. In his lab, Prometheus reveals that he already knows about the Microverse. He has built a pit to reach the Microverse. Bug confronts Prometheus. IN the body banks, Argon has escaped his cell, but Karzas experiments have made him half-man, half-horse. He is quickly recaptured, but not before Slug draws attention to herself, causing Belladonna to select her body, as a new host. Mari reaches Bug, and Prometheus decides to dump every one down his pit. The Micronauts save Steve, but Raymond Coffin, and Prometheus fall down the pit. 

Flashback: Prometheus tells the Coffins how he was in an accident on Skylab, and the ship replaced parts of his body with bionics. 

Micronauts 6 

Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Muffin 
Coffin, Steve 
Col. Macey 
Coffin, Raymond 
Prometheus, Phillip 
Baron Karza 
Time Traveler 
High Shadow Priest 
Prince Argon 
Oberon 
Slug 
Jenkins, Abner 
Jenkins, Martha - BTS 


The Micronauts escape from the lab, and flee in Coffins truck. Raymond and Phillip keep falling into the Microverse. Raymond starts glowing, and meets Time Traveler. Slug manages to free Argon. At the Coffins home, Biotron has managed to repair their ship, and Steve plugs it into the electric outlet. 

Micronauts 7 
July 1979 

Coffin, Steve 
Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Muffin 
Man-Thing (already in MCP) 
Col. Macey 
Baron Karza 
Prometheus, Phillip 
Slug 
Argon 
Oberon 
Time Traveler 
Coffin, Raymond 

Rann, Dallan (in fb) 
Rann, Lady Sepsis (in fb) 
Rann (in fb) 
Biotron (in fb) 
Chief Scientist Karza (in fb) 
Time Traveler (in fb) 


While Steve and Bug fish, Commander Rann dreams. Karza wants to mind merge with Prometheus. Time Traveler wants to make a hero out of Ray. Man-Thing attacks Steve. Steve slices him with his swamp buggy. Karza emerges from the pit. 

Flashback: Ten Centuries ago, on Homeworld, Rann, and Biotron leave on their exploratory mission. They explored the universe, and met many species, but in the meantime, Homeworld had invested the warp drive, and Karza had conquered many of these worlds. On the fringes of the Microverse, near the spacewall, they encountered the Enigma Force, and the Time Travelers. 

Micronauts 8 
August 1979 

Col. Macey 
Coffin, Steve 

Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Baron Karza (in Prometheus body) 
Prometheus, Phillip (as Karza) 
Argon 
Oberon 
Slug 
Captain Universe/ Coffin, Raymond 
Karza (in fb) 
Mari (in fb) 
Argon (in fb) 
Dallan Rann (in fb) 
Lady Sepsis (in fb) 


Karza attacks the Cape. The Micronauts come to stop him. Argon becomes Force Commander, and leads the rebellion. Time Traveler turns Raymond into Captain Universe. He returns through the pit, and tackles Karza. The Micronauts flee for the pit, and Karza emerges and heads after them. Time Traveler seals the pit, and takes back the power he lent to Ray. 


Fb: Argon explains how Karza set up the society in which they live, by making common people believe that Karza would make them immortal, if they got enough life credits. 

Time Traveler appeared to Argon and Mari, and their father to tell them how the royal family would fall to one day rise again. 
Baron Karza kills Dallan Rann, and Lady Sepsis. 

Micronauts 9 
September 1979 

Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Baron Karza 
Major Dark 
Cilicia 
Shaitan 
Force Commander/Prince Argon 
Oberon 
Slug 
Tribal Elder 
World mind 

The Micronauts emerge in the middle of an Acroyear fleet, who take them to their planet- Spartak. Now that the thought wash has been lifted, the Acroyears are happy to see them. Karzas fleet appears and attacks Spartak. While the Acroyears and the Micronauts fight, Prince Acroyear summons the world mind. 

Micronauts 10 
October 1979 

Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Baron Karza 
Major Dark 
Cilicia 
Shaitan 
Force Commander/Argon 
Oberon 
Slug 
Worldmind 

The battle continues, Karza has captured Rann, and Mari. He takes them to return to Homeworld, leaving Major Dark to carry on. Acroyear and the world mind attack Karzas fleet. The Acroyear warriors kill those that land. 


Micronauts 11 

Nov. 1979 

Baron Karza 

Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Force Commander/Argon 
Oberon 
Slug 
Time Traveler 
Cilicia 
Worldmind 

Karza fights Force Commander. The shadow priests reveal themselves to be Time Travelers. Rann fights Karza, wielding the Enigma force. Losing, Karza creates a mind shock, and his energy form vanishes down the great pit. The Acroyears and the world mind arrive, defeating Karzas dog soldiers. 

Micronauts 12 
Dec. 1979 


Rann 
Marionette 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Acroyear 
Bug 

Force Commander/Argon 
Oberon 
Slug 
Cilicia 
Time Traveler 
Col. Macey 
Coffin, Steve 
Coffin, Ray 
Muffin 
Shaitan 
Tribal Elder 

Fury, Nick (already in MCP) 
Dugan, Dum-Dum (already in MCP) 
Worldmind (in fb) 
Acroyear (in fb) 

With Karza defeated, Acroyear returns home and Argon plans for the future. Time Traveler peers in on Cape Canaveral. Shaitan challenges Acroyear in bloodfeud. Acroyear kills his brother in combat. 


Fb: the origin of the Acroyear race, their planet destroyed, they moved to Spartak, after asking the world mind if they could settle there. 
FB: Acroyear is taken by his people, who are thoughtwashed by Karza, and given to Karzas dog soldiers. 



Micronauts 13 
January 1980 

Bug 
Fury, Nick (already in MCP) 
Wartstaff 
Jasmine 
Rann 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Mari 
Force Commander/Argon 
Oberon 
Slug 

Bug (in fb) 

Bug is on his world of Kaliklak. Bug meets up with his old gang, including his girl Jasmine, and his father and rival Wartstaff. 

FB: Bug is in a cell, captured on Kaliklak. 

Micronauts 14 
Feb. 1980 

Bug (ALSO IN FB) 
Jasmine 
Wartstaff 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Mari 
Rann 
Slug 
Argon 
Oberon 
Acroyear 
Cilicia 
Time Traveler 
Human Torch (already in MCP) 
Mr. Fantastic (already in MCP) 
Thing (already in MCP) 
Invisible Woman (already in MCP) 


Bug launches an attack on Karzas forces. 

FB: Bug in cell on Kaliklak. 

Micronauts 15 
March 1980 

Human Torch (already in MCP) 
Mr. Fantastic (already in MCP) 
Thing (already in MCP) 
Invisible Woman (already in MCP) 
Psycho-Man (already in MCP) 
Bug 
Jasmine 
Acroyear 
Cilicia 
Rann 
Mari 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Time Traveler 

The Micronauts find a ship commanded by the Psycho-Man. While Johnny checks out the Prometheus Pit, the rest of the FF shrink down to enter the Microverse. 

Micronauts 16 
April 1980 

Jasmine 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Cilicia 
Rann 
Mari 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Psycho-Man (already in MCP) 
Mr. Fantastic (already in MCP) 
Thing (already in MCP) 
Invisible Woman (already in MCP) 
Human Torch (already in MCP) 


The Micronauts are in the domain of the Psycho-Man. The FF show up to pursue Psycho-Man. 


Micronauts 17 

Jasmine 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Cilicia 
Rann 
Mari 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Psycho-Man (already in MCP) 
Mr. Fantastic (already in MCP) 
Thing (already in MCP) 
Invisible Woman (already in MCP) 
Human Torch (already in MCP) 

Both teams are captured, but manage to break free. Jasmine sacrifices herself in order to save Bug. 

Micronauts 18 

Jasmine 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Cilicia 
Rann 
Mari 
Biotron 
Microtron 

The Micronauts return to Earth, and bury Jasmine. Then they find a doll house where the dolls move. 

Micronauts 19 

Bug 
Acroyear 
Cilicia 
Rann 
Mari 
Biotron 
Microtron 




Odd John/ John Judson (also in fb) 
Ant-Man II/ Lang, Scott (Already in MCP) 
Lang, Cassie (Already in MCP) 

Bug falls into the clutches of Odd John/ John Judson, who is building an insect army. 

Micronauts 20 

Bug 
Acroyear 
Cilicia 
Rann 
Mari 
Biotron 
Microtron 

Odd John/ John Judson 
Ant-Man II/ Lang, Scott (Already in MCP) 

Ant-Man and the Micronauts fight Odd John/ John Judsons army of bugs. 


Micronauts 21 

Bug 
Acroyear 
Cilicia 
Rann 
Mari 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Plantman/ Sam Smithers (already in MCP) 

Mari and Rann have been separated from the others and find themselves in a plant store. Plantman uses the plants to break into a vault. 

Second Story: 

Vespian 
Elder 
Shaitan 

On Spartak, A group of his followers manage to break into the Temple of the Rock and use its energies to restore Shaitan to life. 


Micronauts 22 

Microtron 
Cilicia 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Rann 
Mari 

Burglar/ Rodney 


The Micronauts continue their search for Rann and Mari. They fight a truck, and when it smashes into a McDonalds, they fight a burglar. 

Second Story: 
Slug 
Argon 
Oberon 

When a rain of meteors falls on Homeworlds capital, Slug finds a guard dead, and investigates Karzas body banks. She meets Argon, who reveals that Karza tampered with his mind as well as his body, and that the fiery rain was a signal that activated his programming. Now Argon serves Karza. 

Micronauts 23 
Nov. 1980 

Biotron 
Microtron 
Cilicia 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Rann 
Mari 

Molecule Man (Already in MCP) 

Biotron fights Molecule Man by himself, but then meets up with the rest of the team. 

Second Story: 
Microtron 
Cilicia 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Biotron 
Mari 
Rann 

Microtron searches form Rann and Mari, but gets a shock, when he finds out why they didnt wish to be disturbed. 

Third Story: 

Force Commander/Argon 
Oberon 
Slug 
Margrace 
Shaitan 
Pharoid, Prince 


Argon takes Slug out into the desert to meet up with Shaitan. Their encampment is attacked by the Aegyptians. 


Micronauts 24 
Dec. 1980 

Microtron 
Cilicia 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Biotron 
Mari 
Rann 

Computrex 
Mentallo (Already in MCP) 
Fixer II (Already in MCP) 

The Endeavour goes out of control, taking them to a computer complex. 

Second Story: 
Pharoid, Prince 
Force Commander/ Argon 
Oberon 
Slug 
Margrace 
Shaitan 

The fight continues, Slug is freed, but Shaitan makes off with Argon. 

Micronauts Annual 2 
1980 

Biotron 
Microtron 
Rann 
Acroyear 
Mari 
Bug 

Toymaster/ Prometheus, Phillip (also in fb between his last app. And this issue) 

FB: Prometheus is in a cell, but is let go, then he gets a job designing toys based off of the Microverse, implanting a control circuit so he can use them as an army. 

Prometheus activates some of his toys, but the control ray affects the Micronauts, driving Acroyear crazy. The team eventually ends up in Macys where they fight toy replicas of actual creatures from the Microverse. The toymaster is revealed as Prometheus, who falls down an elevator shaft, after his control ray is destroyed. 



Micronauts 25 

Mentallo (Already in MCP) (but the fb is not) 
Fixer II (Already in MCP) (but the fb is not) 

Microtron 
Cilicia 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Biotron 
Mari 
Rann 

Mentallo and Fixer track the Micronauts, and attack their ship. 

Flashback: Mentallo and Fixer are in a SHIELD cell. Someone breaks in and frees them. Then Hydra? Has Mentallo read the minds of SHIELDs esper unit, some power is reaching out from the Microverse. The Espers discovered an image of a globe of energy floating on a lava lake. 

Second Story: 
Slug 
Pharoid, Prince 
Shaitan 
Force Commander/ Argon 
Oberon 

Baron Karza (Also in flashback) 

Pharoid explains Karzas origin to Slug. Slug realizes that if Shaitan has been brought back to life, then Karza must have planned for his own return as well. In the primal zone, Shaitan compels Argon to jump into the fiery lake, he lands in a sphere. Karza emerges, in Argons body. 

Flashback: Karza plotted to kill Dallan and Sepsis, but the plot was discovered, and he fled to Aegyptia. Dying, he was rescued by a strange sun cult. He learned their secrets and used them to transfer his mind to an invincible suit of armor. He turned on the sun cultists, then on Dallan and Sepsis, murdering them. Then he created the body banks and his dog soldiers, to rule the Microverse. 

Micronauts 26 

Microtron 
Cilicia 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Biotron 
Mari 
Rann 

Dagon 
Baron Karza 
Argon (as Karzas host body) 
Shaitan 


Col. Fury (Already in MCP) 
Jones, Gabe (Already in MCP) 
Dugan, Dum Dum (Already in MCP) 

The Micronauts invade the SHIELD Helicarrier, which is under assault by HYDRA. Bug finds an Acroyear Warrior named Dagon in a tube, and frees him. The others find out that Karza is controlling the SHIELD Esper unit. Karza materializes, then rips the Enigma Force from Ranns mind, then blasts Mari. Then he teleports away. 

Second Story: 

Mari 
Pharoid 
Slug 
Esmera, Queen 
Baron Karza 
Argon (as Karzas host body) 
Time Traveler 

Mari is not killed by Karzas blast, but instead sent back to the Microverse. She ends up in the Primal Zone to find her brothers armor. Mari returns to the First Zone, and convenes a council. ON the view screen, Karza reveals that he has captured the Time Travelers. 


Micronauts 27 

Col. Fury (Already in MCP) 
Jones, Gabe (Already in MCP) 
Dugan, Dum Dum (Already in MCP) 

Baron Karza 
Argon (as Karzas host body) 
Shaitan 
Time Traveller 
Rann 
Biotron 
Microtron 
Cilicia 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Dagon 


Karza is in control of Hydra. The Micronauts ally with SHIELD to stop him. Karza captures Rann. Dagon betrays the team, and kills Biotron. Shaitan plots against Karza. 

Micronauts 28 

Cilicia 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Microtron 
Biotron (deceased) 
Mari 
Pharoid 
Slug 
Queen Esmera 
Dagon 
Baron Karza 
Argon (as Karzas host body) 
Rann 
Time Traveler 
Shaitan 

Fury, Nick (Already in MCP) 
Dugan, Dum Dum (Already in MCP) 
Captain America (Already in MCP) 
Vision II (Already in MCP) 
Iron Man (Already in MCP) 


Jones, Gabe (This app. Is NOT listed yet.) (Note: hes colored wrong in this issue, but it is supposed to be Gabe, hes referred to by first name, and in charge of the SHIELD Helicarrier.) 

The fight continues. In Florida, Fury and the Micronauts face Hydra, while the Helicarrier is attacked by ships from the Microverse, and Mari and the rebels take refuge in the Body Banks. Shaitan returns Karzas betrayal in kind, by sealing off the transporter that is allowing Karzas forces to come to Earth, trapping his fleet in Hyperspace, but allowing the resistance forces through to Earth. Then Shaitan calls forth the Worldmind to fight Karza, but the power kills him. Acroyear takes up the power, even though he knows it will mean Spartaks destruction. Queen Esmera attacks Karza with her suicide sting, which kills both herself and Karza. Argon is freed, but Spartak is destroyed, and Ranns mind is blasted. 

Micronauts 29 

Pharoid 
Rann 
Mari 
Slug 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS (in Argons body) 
Acroyear 
Cilicia 
Bug 
Microtron 
Dagon 
Biotron (deceased) 
Esmera, Queen (deceased) 

Fury, Nick (already in MCP) 
Jones, Gabe (already in MCP) 
Dugan, Dum Dum (already in MCP) 
Doc Samson (already in MCP) 
Nightmare (already in MCP) 

Fury gives a speech for the dead. Cilicia brands Acroyear a traitor for the destruction of their world. In order to restore Ranns mind, Doc. Samson shrinks down Mari, Bug, and Acroyear and shoots them into Ranns brain, where they meet Nightmare. Dagon attacks Ranns body, revealing to Microtron that he slew Biotron, and that Karza had planted Dagon where the team had found him, in order to kill Rann, in the event that Karza was defeated. The team defeat Nightmare, and find a strange tablet in Ranns mind. It is inscribed with a strange prophecy. Rann wakes up; finding Dagon about to murder him, but Microtron is able to overcome him. The Micronauts leave, to return to Homeworld. 

Micronauts 30 

Vandenburg, Doctor Martin 
Rann 
Mari 
Microtron 
Slug 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Pharoid 
Bug 
Nanotron 
Acroyear 
Oberon (revealed that he is still alive, after being merged with Argon) 
Coral (also in fb) 
Tybalt (also in fb) 
Ryak 
Aquon (also in fb) 
Time Traveler (in fb) 
Dr. Strange (Already in MCP) 

The Quest for the Enigma Force begins. A Time of Great Distress is on the Microverse, and the Micronauts set out to find the three keys that will allow them to contact the Enigma Force. They begin their search in Oceania. 

FB: Coral and Aquons story. 


Micronauts 31 

Dr. Strange (Already in MCP) 
Yama (in fb) 
Mara (in fb) 
Agni (in fb) 
Kali (in fb) 
Prince Wayfinder (in fb) 
Sunsword (in fb) 

Bug 
Coral 
Pharoid 
Microtron 
Aquon (ALSO IN FB) 
Rann 
Marionette 
Ryak 
Tybalt 
Time Traveler (in fb) 
Acroyear 

Dr. Strange probes the origins of the Microverse. 

Flashback: Prince Wayfinder talks to his living sunsword, which transports him, and his friends to the Microverse. 

Flashback: Time Traveler turns Aquon into a merman. 

Micronauts 32 

Prince Peacock 
Queen Fria 

Mari 
Microtron 
Bug 
Pharoid 
Rann 

Dr. Strange (Already in MCP) 
Acroyear 

The Micronauts continue their quest in Polaria, where they recover the second key. 


Micronauts 33 

Acroyear 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Slug 
Rann 
Mari 
Bug 
Pharoid 
Prince Peacock 
Fireflyte 
Devil 
Microtron 

Time Traveler (in fb) 
Dr. Strange (already in MCP) 

Acroyear meets Devil and Fireflyte, and fins the third key. Dr. Strange continues his quest, and journeys to Dead Zone on Homeworld in the Microverse. 

FB: Time Traveler brings the third key to Mirthria, home of the Devils. 

Micronauts 34 

Rann 
Bug 
Mari 
Microtron 
Pharoid 
Acroyear 
Devil 
Argon (also in fb) 
Baron Karza  BTS (also bts in fb) 
Slug 
Oberon 
Margrace 
Nanotron 
Fireflyte 
Dr. Strange (already in MCP) 
Battleaxe/ Degrayde 

The team goes to Aegyptia, to meet up with Acroyear, but they are betrayed by Argon, who is waiting with troops dressed as Dog Soldiers. They break free of the cell Argon has put them in. Meanwhile Strange continues his journey, and finds a tomb with statues of Prince Wayfarer and his friends. The Micronauts battle Argon, and get the three keys. Argon declares them traitors. 

FB: Argon has grown power mad and imprisoned many since the start of the Micronauts quest. 



Micronauts 35 
November 1981 

Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Oberon 
Pharoid 
Margrace 
Slug 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Rann 
Mari 
Devil 
Fireflyte 
Dr. Strange (already in MCP) 
Ampzilla 
Battleaxe/ Degrayde 
Lobros 
Centauria 
Microtron 
Nanotron 

Prince Wayfinder (in fb) 
Sunsword/ Sword in the Star (also in fb) 
Kali (in fb) 
Yama (in fb) 


FB: Prince Wayfinder and his people (formerly of Ithaka) journey to Earth. They find it inhabited by demons. He built a city, but it was destroyed by the demons. The starsword transformed Wayfinder into Time Traveler. He bound the demons so they could not escape. He created the Microverse, and led his people there. 

The Micronauts reach Dead Zone, and meet Dr. Strange. Argon pursues them. During a huge battle, Rann manages to insert the keys into the door on Wayfinders tomb. The Sword in the Star appears and merges Rann and Dr. Strange into Captain Universe, in order to repair the space wall. Fireflyte binds the demons, but dies in the process. Just as Argon attacks, Microtron and Nanotron return with the Endeavour. 



Micronauts 36 
Dec. 1981 

Rann 
Mari 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Devil 
Microtron 
Nanotron 

Ampzilla 
Battleaxe/ Degrayde 
Lobros 
Centauria 
Repto 
Lobstros 
Antron 
Galactic Destroyer 

Baxter, Bobby 
Glockenspiel, Ada 
Dewshap, Mr. 

Argons Death-Squad pursues the Micronauts to Earth, where they fight in an elementary school. 

Micronauts 37 
Jan. 1982 

Nightcrawler (already in MCP) 
Colossus (already in MCP) 
Kitty Pryde (already in MCP) 
Storm (already in MCP) 
Wolverine (already in MCP) 
Professor Xavier (already in MCP) 

Acroyear 
Devil 
Bug 
Rann 
Nanotron 
Microtron 
Mari 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Huntarr/ Iann-23 

The X-Men repair the Danger Room, then leave, leaving Nightcrawler on monitor duty. The Micronauts try to repair their ship, which is losing warp energy. In the Microverse, Argon genetically engineers Huntarr, to destroy the Micronauts. Huntarr attacks the Endeavour, driving it down, into Xaviers school. They team up with Nightcrawler, but not before Huntarr has activated the Danger Room. 

Micronauts 38 

Rann (also in fb) 
Mari 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Devil 
Microtron 
Nanotron 
Chief Scientist Karza (in fb) 
Lady Sepsis Rann (in fb) 
Lord Dallan Rann (in fb) 

Rann fights a bird, and then tells the crew about his space glider training. 

Flashback: Ranns training. The cadets follow Karza through flight tests. Karza rips one of Ranns glider wings with his knife. Rann manages to save himself despite this, and is suspicious of Karza. Later, six assassins scale the wall to Ranns room, but he puts on his space glider outfit and attacks. 

Second Story: 
Rann 
Mari 
Bug (also in fb) 
Acroyear (also in fb) 
Devil 
Microtron 
Nanotron 
Colonial Governor (in fb) 
Shaitan (in fb) 
Flashback: Bug is beaten while a prisoner on Kaliklak for stealing a piece of fruit. He escapes and grabs a fighter. He gets stuck in orbit, and hitches a ride aboard an Acroyear ship. He sees Shaitan, who has captured Acroyear. Bug rescues Acroyear, but then stays to help him fight. 

Micronauts 39 

Rann 
Mari 
Acroyear 
Microtron 
Nanotron 
Bug 
Devil 
Force Commander/Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Huntarrr 
Duchess Belladonna 
Slug 
Pharoid 
Cilicia 
Mantlo, Bill 

Due to the erratic nature of the malfunctioning warp drove, the Endeavor turns up in a comic book shop. Argon schemes with Duchess Belladonna, to give her Slugs body, and with Cilicia, giving her Acroyears location. Cilicia sends Acroyear warriors to attack Acroyear. A group of construction workers turn the tide against the Acroyear Elite. The Acroyears are able to drain the Endeavor of all flight power, before they are destroyed by the Micronauts. They regain their ship, but it is swept into a sewer by water. 


Micronauts 40 
April 1982 

Rann 
Mari 
Bug 
Devil 
Acroyear 
Microtron 
Nanotron 

Mr. Fantastic (Already in MCP) 
Invisible Girl (Already in MCP) 
Human Torch (Already in MCP) 
Thing (Already in MCP) 
Richards, Franklin (Already in MCP) 

Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Duchess Belladonna 
Degrayde 

The Micronauts journey to the Baxter Building in search of Reed, but find only Franklin and the Thing. Antrons eat Reeds reduction craft. Thing sends them upstate to check out Dooms castle. 

Micronauts 41 

Rann 
Mari 
Acroyear 
Devil 
Nanotron 
Bug 
Microtron 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Duchess Belladonna (in Slugs body) 
Slug (in Belladonnas body) 
Pharoid 

Puppet Master (Already in MCP) 
Doctor Doom (Already in MCP) 

Puppet Master (in fb, not in MCP) 
Doctor Doom (in fb, not in MCP) 

The Endeavor comes to an end in the New York sewers. The Micronauts make their way to Dooms castle, and investigate Liddleville. They free Puppet Master and fight Doom. 

Flashback: The townspeople make Puppet Master mayor, then Doom appears to take over Liddleville. 

Micronauts 42 

Devil 
Mari 
Rann 
Microtron 
Nanotron 
Acroyear 
Bug (also in fb) 
Jasmine (in fb) 
Wasp (Already in MCP) 
Doctor Nemesis II (Already in MCP) 

The Micronauts crash Wasps party, in order to aid her against Doctor Nemesis. During the battle, Nemesis shrinks Bug, Mari, and Acroyear, and they disappear. 

Flashback: Bug and Jasmine hop through the red grass of Kaliklak in happier times. 


Micronauts 43 

Wasp (Already in MCP) 
Doctor Nemesis II (Already in MCP) 
Iron Man (Already in MCP) 
Thor (Already in MCP) 
Captain America (Already in MCP) 

Mari 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Rann 
Devil 
Microtron 
Nanotron 

Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Duchess Belladonna (in Slugs body) 
Degrayde 
Oberon (as part of Force Commander) 
Margrace 
Computrex 
Prometheus, Phillip 




In FB: 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Belladonna 
Slug 
Pharoid 



Flashback: Occurs between #40 and #41, Duchess Belladonna and Slug have their bodies swapped in Argons Body Banks. 

Three of the Micronauts join the rebellion, while the rest arrive with Jan, at Avengers Mansion. The Avengers are unable to shrink them, but provide transportation to Florida. Unfortunately, they find that Computrex is alive, and has taken over the complex. They also meet Prometheus, walking corpse. 




Micronauts 44 

Computrex (also in Fb) 
Prometheus, Phillip (ALSO IN FB) 

Devil 
Rann 
Microtron 
Nanotron 

Mari 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Margrace 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Duchess belladonna (in Slugs body) 
Slug (In belladonnas body) 
Degrayde  BTS 
Pharoid 

The Micronauts fight Computrex and Prometheus. In the Microverse, the remaining Micronauts fight Dog Soldiers, while Belladonna attempts to poison Argon. In the cells, the real Slug breaks out of Argons jail. On Earth, Devil manages to kill both foes, but not before Computrex turns the Micronauts into light. 

Flashback: Computrexs ID survives, and journeys to Florida, where it takes over the computers at the Cape. Then Computrex summoned Prometheus home. 

Micronauts 45 
Sept. 1982 

Arcade (Already In MCP) 
Rann 
Devil 
Microtron 
Nanotron 
Garee 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Margrace 
Mari 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Slug (in Belladonnas body) 
Belladonna (in Slugs body) 

Arcade schemes to use a light beam to ensnare the X-Men, result in him bringing the Micronauts to him instead. Meanwhile, in the Microverse, the rebellion goes on without them. Mari goes to finds out the truth about Slug, which she does, and confronts Argon, who reveals to her that he is no longer human. He stabs her with an energy blade, and she falls out of the window. On Earth, the team fights Arcades machines, and breaks free to confront Arcade himself. Arcade, being a coward, runs, and his sea-base self destructs. 

Micronauts 46 

Rann 
Devil 
Microtron 
Nanotron 
Mari 
Bug 
Acroyear 

Pharoid 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Degrayde 
Duchess Belladonna (in Slugs body) 
Slug (in Belladonnas body) 

Slug (in fb) 
Tal (in fb) 
Baron Karza (in fb) 


Battleaxe II 
Ampzilla 
Lobros 
Centauria 

The four Earth bound Micronauts escape from Arcades sea-base, and make for an island. Devil, Microtron, and Nanotron are lost in the water, but Rann washes up on shore, and is taken by creatures that possess a working hibernation couch, and think he is Time Traveler. 

Flashback: Slugs mother is chosen from the Body Banks to become the bride of Baron Karza. Karza kills her father, who tries to stop him. 

Micronauts 47 

Microtron 
Nanotron 
Bioship 
Devil 
Rann (also in fb) 
Biotron (in fb only) 
Acroyear 
Bug 

Pharoid 
Degrayde 

Battleaxe II 
Ampzilla 
Lobros 
Centauria 

Duchess Belladonna (in Slugs body) 
Slug (in Belladonnas body) 
Mari 
Huntarr 



The two roboids find a Bioship underneath the ocean. Bug, Acroyear, and Pharoid are captured by the Death Squad. Rann and Devil are rescued by the Bioship. 

Flashback: Biotron and Rann land on a planet, and awe the natives. Over the centuries they create a Bioship in the image of Biotron. They encounter the space wall and end up on Earth. 

Micronauts 48 

Bioship (also in fb) 
Rann (also in fb) 
Devil 
Microtron (also in fb) 
Nanotron (also in fb) 

Acroyear 
Pharoid 
Bug 

Degrayde 
Battleaxe II 
Ampzilla 
Lobros 
Centauria 
Argon 
Baron Karza  BTS 
Duchess Belladonna (in Slugs body) 
Slug (in Belladonnas body) 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Sepsis (in fb) 
Dallan (in fb) 
Chief Scientist Karza (in fb) 
Biotron (in fb) 

Acoyear breaks free, but must soon surrender again, to save his comerades lives. Mari tricks Huntarr into destroying Homeworlds weather machines. Rann explores the Bioship. He joins with the ship, allowing it to access his memories. Then the Bioship takes him back to the Microverse. 

FB: The Bioship lies at the bottom of the ocean, after its voyage from the Microverse. It repairs itself to look more like Biotron. 

FB: Microtron and Nanotron board the Bioship. They willingly give of their memories and lives, so that the Bioship can have a new mission. 

FB: Ranns childhood. Ranns space glider training. Rann and Biotron board the Endeavor. Early exploration. 

Micronauts 49 

Bioship 
Rann 
Devil 
Time Traveler 
Argon 
Degrayde 
Belladonna (in Slugs body) 
Slug (in Belladonnas body) 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Pharoid 
Bug 
Acroyear 

Battleaxe II 
Ampzilla 
Lobros 
Centauria 
Baron Karza (revealed as having been BTS in Argons body.) 


While the Micronauts fight in the arena, Force Commander reveals that he is controlled by Baron Karza, and Karza ends his life, emerging from Force Commanders body. 

Micronauts 50 


Baron Karza 
Degrayde 
Belladonna (in Slugs body) 
Slug (in Belladonnas body) 
Argons corpse 
Mari 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Pharoid 
Huntarr 
Rann 
Devil (also in fb) 
Bioship 

Battleaxe II 
Ampzilla 
Lobros 
Centauria 

Fireflyte II 
Margrace 

Karza and his death squad stand against everyone in the arena. Karza kills many, and at the end Fireflyte distracts him long enough, for her to teleport the Micronauts away, so that they can run in the Bioship. 

Flashback: The last Soul Survivor attacks Devil. 

Micronauts 51 

Bioship 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Rann 
Mari 
Bug 
Fireflyte II 
Cilicia 

The Micronauts flee Homeworld, and are pursued by Karzas fleet. Rann meditates, hoping to discover the Enigma Force within him, as the other Micronauts fight. On Homeworld, Karza sweeps away the last remnants of the rebellion. 

Micronauts 52 
May 1983 

Baron Karza 
Aquon 
Degrayde 
Coral 
Bioship 
Cilicia (also in fb) 
Mari 
Bug 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Rann 
Fireflyte II 
Time Traveler 
Acroyear Elder 

Acroyear faces Cilicia in trial by combat. When Acroyear cracks her armor, it reveals that Cilicia is pregnant. 

Flashback: Cilicia leads the Acroyear people away from Spartak, to wander space. 

Micronauts 53 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Acroyear Elder 
Cilicia 
Bioship 
Rann 
Fireflyte II 
Baron Karza 
Degrayde 

Little D 
Schnozz 
Bugsy 
Squash 
Jocko 
Skull 

Taking leave of the Acroyears, the Micronauts go to Prison World to try to drum up some resistance. They find a world that has patterned itself after Earths mob movies. 

Micronauts 54 

Mari 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Huntarr 
Bioship 
Rann 
Fireflyte II 


Little D 
Skull 
Murder-1 
Baron Karza 

The Micronauts liberate Prison World. 

Micronauts 55 

Bioship 
Mari 
Bug 
Rann 
Fireflyte II 
Time Traveler 
Baron Karza 
Acroyear 
Huntarr (also in fb) 
Janna-23 (also in fb) 
Seelia-23 (also in fb) 
Coral 
Degrayde 

Huntarr returns to Homeworld to try to find news of his family. He finds his mother, who commits suicide, because she can no longer live with what Karza has done to her. He then goes to rescue his sister, who is being used as a breeder, in Karzas body banks. The women all kill themselves and their offspring rather than let Karza use them. 

Flashback: Iann-23 (Huntarr) has stolen life credits to barter for food, for his mother and sister. The dog soldiers come for him, to make him into one of them. 

Micronauts 56 

Bioship 
Bug 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Rann 
Fireflyte II 
Treefern 
Baron Karza 
Degrayde 
Time Traveler 
New queen of Kaliklak 

The Micronauts journey to Kaliklak, where they meet Jasmines sister, Treefern. The Time Travelers show both Rann and Karza what it would be like to have the power of a god. 

Micronauts 57 

Ojeeg 
Bioship 
Captain DArk 
Mari 
Bug 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Rann 
Fireflyte II 
Baron Karza 
Degrayde 
Little D 
Acroyear Elder 
Queen of Kalilkak 


Karza plans to destroy the world of Never Summer as an example to other worlds. 

X-men and the Micronauts 1 
January 1984 

Cannonball (already in MCP) 
Colossus (already in MCP) 
Entity (already in MCP) 
Lockheed (already in MCP) 
Magik (already in MCP) 
Mirage (already in MCP) 
Nightcrawler (already in MCP) 
Professor X (already in MCP) 
Shadowcat (already in MCP) 
Storm (already in MCP) 
Sunspot (already in MCP) 
Wolfsbane (already in MCP) 
Wolverine (already in MCP) 

Bioship 
Rann 
Mari 
Fireflyte II 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Huntarr 
Baron Karza 

The Micronauts lead a vast armada of ships including Karzas forces against an unknown opponent. The Entity captures the Micronauts, but the Bioship and Karza flee to Earth, to Xaviers school, where they encounter the X-Men and New Mutants. In the battle, Kitty and Karzas minds are switched. 

X-Men and the Micronauts 2 

Cannonball (already in MCP) 
Colossus (already in MCP) 
Entity (already in MCP) 
Mirage (already in MCP) 
Nightcrawler (already in MCP) 
Prof. X (already in MCP) 
Shadowcat (already in MCP) 
Storm (already in MCP) 
Sunspot (already in MCP) 
Wolfsbane (already in MCP) 
Wolverine (already in MCP) 

Rann 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Fireflyte II 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Bioship 
Baron Karza 
Degrayde 

The Entity uses Nightmares to make the Micronauts serve him. The X-Men and Karza journey to the Microverse. The Entity is able to capture the X-Men. 

X-Men and the Micronauts 3 

Cannonball (already in MCP) 
Colossus (already in MCP) 
Entity (already in MCP) 
Magma (already in MCP) 
Mirage (already in MCP) 
Nightcrawler (already in MCP) 
Prof. X (already in MCP) 
Shadowcat (already in MCP) 
Storm (already in MCP) 
Sunspot (already in MCP) 
Wolfsbane (already in MCP) 
Wolverine (already in MCP) 

Bug 
Huntarr 
Mari 
Rann 
Fireflyte II 
Acroyear 
Baron Karza 
Degrayde 
Archivist 

The combined teams to the Entitys bidding. The Entity confronts Xavier on the psychic plane, and wins. 


X-Men and the Micronauts 4 
April 1984 

Cannonball (already in MCP) 
Colossus (already in MCP) 
Entity (already in MCP) 
Lockheed (already in MCP) 
Magik (already in MCP) 
Magma (already in MCP) 
Mirage (already in MCP) 
Nightcrawler (already in MCP) 
Prof. X (already in MCP) 
Shadowcat (already in MCP) 
Storm (already in MCP) 
Sunspot (already in MCP) 
Wolfsbane (already in MCP) 
Wolverine (already in MCP) 

Bug 
Acroyear 
Mari 
Rann 
Huntarr 
Fireflyte II 
Baron Karza 
Degrayde 
Bioship 

The teams triumph over the entity. 

Micronauts 58 

Rann 
Bug 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Fireflyte II 

Time Traveler 
Coral 
Baron Karza 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 
Devil II 

The Micronauts return to Homeworld to find it depopulated. They find Lady Coral of Seazone dying, then they find Karza, and an army of monsters. The Micronauts kill Karza. Then they leave Homeworld to voyage out into the Microverse. 

Micronauts 59 

Rann (also in fb) 
Mari (also in fb) 
Bug (also in fb) 
Acroyear (also in fb) 
Huntarr (also in fb) 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 

Cilicia (in fb) 
Argon (in fb) 
Maris parents (in fb) 
Biotron I (in fb) 

While the Endeavor IIs systems charge, the Micronauts think of things to say to memorialize Homeworld. 

Flashback: Acroyear is told by his father that in five days he will marry Cilicia. However, he is young and in love with another, and will have no part of it. Cilicia comes to talk to Acroyear. She was also in love with another, but was willing to give that up, and do her duty, and she convinced Acroyear that he should do the same. 

Flashback: Mari and Argon are at the table, she brags about being fearless. Her father shows her otherwise by pretending to die at her hand during a sword lesson. 

Flashback: Bug and his teacher on Kaliklak. 

Flashback: Huntarr as a young boy. 

Flashback: Rann and Biotron during their 1,000 year mission. 


Micronauts, Volume 2, #1 

October 1984 

Rann (also bts in fb) 
Mari 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Huntarr 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 
Biotron I (BTS only in fb) 

The Micronauts leave Homeworld in Endeavor II to explore the Microverse. There is a malfunction with the warp drive, and Rann goes outside to fix it, while the ship is in Hyperspace. He manages to lose a hand. The ship is quite lost in unknown territory. They land on an artificial planetoid, and explore its interior. They find eggs being fed by hard radiation. 

Flashback: The original Endeavor visits Fiame, a world with no life higher than primitive mammals. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #2 
Nov. 1984 

Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Rann 
Mari 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 

On the alien planetoid, beams start shooting out, the team leave, but Huntarr is captured and changed by the planetoid. The crew take an egg back with them. Rann manages to make telepathic contact with the planetoid, but it takes off into hyperspace to seed its eggs, while taking the Endeavor with it. Huntarr manages to rejoin the crew. By hooking up the egg to the drive, the Endeavor breaks free. However the crew has taken a lethal does of radiation. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #3 

Bug 
Rann 
Biotron II 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Microtron II 

Mari smashes the med unit, when she finds that it is a mini-Body Bank. Rann asks Biotron about it, but when he says that its standard equipment, he orders Biotron not to talk about the medical situation anymore, which Biotron takes to mean the radiation problem, which he has not told the crew about yet. The crew land on a metal planet, and are attacked by some creatures. Rann figures out that the entire planet conducts laser light, and that the sun is coming up fast and they will be destroyed. He orders the Endeavor in to get them, but their vehicle is grabbed and pulled into the planet. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #4 
Jan. 1985 

Bug 
Rann 
Biotron II 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Microtron II 

The Micronauts find themselves in some type of chamber. Meanwhile the Endeavor is burning up, as Biotron takes his programming to rescue the team too literally. The ship burrows into the ground, but Biotron and Microtron are apparently destroyed. Rann and Mari touch some kind of plate, and think they are on a dance floor, in reality the Micronauts are attacked by robots. Rann and Mari return to reality and meet some aliens. They find out that the whole planet is one big weapons testing array. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #5 

Bug 
Rann 
Mari (also in fb) 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 

Biotron II 
Microtron II  BTS 
Argon (only in fb) 
Solitaire 

The Roboids are partially destroyed. Biotron attacks Mari, and Rann has to shoot him. Mari collapses from the radiation poisoning. The aliens see a picture of Homeworld and ask the Micronauts to come back to their home planet with them. Having little alternative, they agree. Mari recovers. Rann settles into his command chair, and has a flashback/vid tape. Later, on Central City they attend a banquet, and the aliens show them the Spiral Path. Bug wanders off, as he wishes to be alone, and he wants to go home to Kaliklak. One of the aliens who have duplicated Maris form, with Bugs coloring begs him to take her with him. 

Flashback: Argon and Mari as children. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #6 
March 1985 

Bug 
Solitaire 

Bug and Solitaire take off on a ship, and he thinks of things that could be happening to the Micronauts. After Bugs fantasies get more and more ridiculous he asks Solitaire to turn the ship around and go back. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #7 

Acroyear (also in fb) 

Rann 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Illyrie (in fb only) 
Laios (in fb only and in fb-fb) 
Polibos (in fb only and in fb-fb) 
Seneschal (in fb only) 

Acroyear thinks to himself, and has a flashback. 

Flashback: 
As crown prince, when a world under the Acroyears protection is attacked by the Black Fleet, Acroyear leads an expedition to stop them. (Acroyear mentions that he is betrothed to Cilicia.) Acroyear and Illyrie get involved in local politics, and for reasons of honor Illyrie dies. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #8 

Solitaire 
Bug 
Mari 
Rann 
Acroyear 
Huntarr 
Scion 

Bug is dying, Solitaire returns him back to her planet, where the other Micronauts are also dying. Only Huntarr is not affected by radiation sickness. ON board the Endeavor, the egg hatches. It is the custom for the dying to be allowed to spend their time in an illusion of their own making, so the Micronauts attend an imaginary ball. The creature form the egg approaches the Micronauts chamber, and Huntarr fights it, it shoots something out, and Huntarr changes again. His body surrounds the Micronauts, and begins repairing them. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #9 

Devil II 
Rann 
Acroyear 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 
Mari 
Bug 
Solitaire 
Huntarr 

On homeworld, Devil explores. As he sees some fearful thing, he gets into a teleportation booth. Rann sees all of this in a dream. The aliens have rebuilt the roboids. Solitaire brings them to the Dreaming Star. Rann uses the power of the star, and a teleportation receiver, to bring Devils pattern through and store him inside Biotron. Something happened at the point of origin to make the signal unstable, so if they try to materialize Devil, he will die. Rann realizes that to aid Devil, he will have to return to Homeworld. The Children of the dreaming star prepare a great fleet. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #10 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Rann 
Solitaire 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 
Time Traveler 
Devil II-BTS 

Scion 

Solitaire stows away on the Endeavor, but no one is too upset. Rann leads the fleet, following Devils hyperspace trail. They reach the Spacewall. Rann tries to breach the spacewall, but a time traveler appears. However, the Enigma force has been corrupted, and begins destroying the fleet. A creature stirs in the hold. When the Micronauts get Rann back on board, his hair has turned white. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #11 


Rann 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Solitaire 
Biotron II 
Microtron II-BTS 
Devil II-BTS 

Cilicia 
Scion 

After their failure to breech the spacewall, the fleet returns home, Rann goes with them, leaving the Micronauts. They find the Acroyear fleet on the other side of the Spacewall, and follow them to a structure which is on top of the wall. The station is called Breechpoint, but it is destroyed, the Micronauts escape, and Scion reveals his presence. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #12 

Scion 
Mari 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Huntarr 
Solitaire 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 
Devil II-BTS 

The crew fights Scion, who wants to take over command, but they cannot beat him, and he offers to lead them through the spacewall. With Scions help the Micronauts penetrate the Spacewall. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #13 

Devil II 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 
Acroyear 
Solitaire 
Huntarr 
Mari 
Bug 
Scion 


The Micronauts try to help Devil, but they are attacked by pain. Scion does nothing. They journey to Fiame, where they find a ship, filled with strange creatures. On the ship Scion finds the three keys. 


Micronauts, Volume 2, #14 

Scion 
Bug 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Solitaire 
Mari 
Rann 

Scion takes them to the planet Aegis, where a trillion refugees have been exiled from their home planets. Rann gets a glimpse of the Makers. Scion puts Bug into a cocoon, but Solitaire and Mari rescue him. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #15 

Mari (also in fb) 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Solitaire 
Baron Karza (in fb only) 
Lord Edev (in fb only) 
Diarmid (in fb only) 
Argon (in fb only) 

Mari tells her story. 

Flashback: A nobleman named Eved wanted a dancer named Diarmid do much that he plotted with Karza. This scheme backfired when Mari was injured, and Karza used Diarmids legs to repair her. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #16 

Scion 
Acroyear 
Mari 
Bug 
Huntarr 
Solitaire 
Beyonder (Already in MCP) 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 
Devil II-BTS 


A ship starts to take off, the Micronauts try to stop it, but the main drive reacts, killing many people in the refugee camp below. However the Beyonder appears, revives the people, and does many wondrous things, including restoring Huntarrs human form. Then he goes of with Scion, and for the greater good, they destroy three worlds. The Micronauts attack Scion, but the Beyonder restrains them, and Scion finally explains. The worldmind of Homeworld has gone insane, and is destroying the Microverse. They decide to oppose Scion anyway, and Huntarr charges the Micronauts up, and they destroy him. Then they tell the Beyonder to leave. This is all part of Scions plan, as the Beyonder restores him to life in a new form. 


Micronauts, Volume 2, #17 

Feb. 1986 

Solitaire 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Mari 
Huntarr 
Microtron II 
Biotron II 
Devil II 
Rann 
Fireflyte III 

The team arrives back at Homeworld. They reintegrate Devil, but something goes wrong, and hes a giant, and insane. Hes controlled by the insane world mind of Homeworld, and destroys the Endeavor II. Huntarr shoots him, and ends it, as Rann steps through the teleporter. From Devils death, a new Fireflyte is born. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #18 
March 1986 

Fireflyte III 
Solitaire 
Bug 
Acroyear 
Huntarr 
Rann 
Mari 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 
Cilicia 
Scion 

The Acroyear fleet arrives at Homeworld, looking for the source of the threat to the Microverse. Acroyears son is born. Solitaire (disguised as Cilicia) gives the command to destroy Homeworld, but Scion is manning the helm, and instead the spheres of Homeworld separate. Acroyear leaves Cilicia, and goes with Scion to the Micronauts, and destiny. 

Micronauts, Volume 2, #19 

April 1986 

Baron Karza ( in fb only) 
Mari 
Rann 
Huntarr 
Acroyear 
Bug 
Biotron II 
Microtron II 
Solitaire (also in origin fb) 
Fireflyte III 
Scion 

The spheres of Homeworld fly apart, taking the Micronauts with them. Solitaire and Scion fight. Scion and Solitaire tell the Micronauts how Scions plan will kill them all. Rann takes them underground, to where Karza has built a Prometheus Pit to tap the energies of Homeworld. Scion and Solitaire enter the pit, but it starts to kill them. The Micronauts follow with the same results. Rann puts on Karzas armor, in order to control the pits. Scion, Huntarr, Acroyear and Bug again enter the pits. 

Flashback: Karza rants. This is sometime near the end of the first series, after Karza has rejected Godhood. 

Flashback: Solitaire explains her origin, and how she rejected the will of the Makers. 

Flashback: Karza constructs Prometheus Pits on all the modules of Homeworld. (This occurs AFTER the other Karza fb. In this issue) 


Micronauts, Volume 2, #20 

Rann 
Mari 
Acroyear 
Huntarr 
Bug 
Scion 
Fireflyte III 
Time Traveler 
The Makers 


The Micronauts sacrifice their lives in order that the waves of pain wracking the universe can be cancelled out, and that new life can be born.

Last edited by Dhall on 04 Sep 2006 06:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 04 Sep 2006 06:35 pm    
By Dhall

ACROYEAR 
MICRO 59-FB 
MICRO2 7-FB 
MICRO 38/2-FB 
MICRO 12-FB 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 15 
MICRO 16 
MICRO 17 
MICRO 18 
MICRO 19 
MICRO 20 
MICRO 21 
MICRO 22 
MICRO 23 
MICRO 23/2 
MICRO 24 
MICRO@ 2 
MICRO 25 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 
MICRO 32 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 37 
MICRO 38 
MICRO 38/2 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 42 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 
MICRO 51 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 57 
X&M 1 
X&M 2 
X&M 3 
X&M 4 
MICRO 58 
MICRO 59 
MICRO2 1 
MICRO2 2 
MICRO2 3 
MICRO2 4 
MICRO2 5 
MICRO2 7 
MICRO2 8 
MICRO2 9 
MICRO2 10 
MICRO2 11 
MICRO2 12 
MICRO2 13 
MICRO2 14 
MICRO2 15 
MICRO2 16 
MICRO2 17 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 
MICRO2 20 

AGNI 
MICRO 31-FB 

AMPZILLA 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 

ARCHIVIST 
X&M 3 

AQUON 
MICRO 30-FB 
MICRO 31-FB 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 
MICRO 52 

BARON KARZA 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 38-FB 
MICRO 7-FB 
MICRO 25/2-FB 
MICRO 8-FB 
MICRO 8-FB 
MICRO 46-FB 
MICRO2 15-FB 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 25/2 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 26/2 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29-BTS 
MICRO 30-BTS 
MICRO 34-FB-BTS 
MICRO 33-BTS 
MICRO 34-BTS 
MICRO 35-BTS 
MICRO 37-BTS 
MICRO 39-BTS 
MICRO 40-BTS 
MICRO 43-FB-BTS 
MICRO 41-BTS 
MICRO 43-BTS 
MICRO 44-BTS 
MICRO 45-BTS 
MICRO 46-BTS 
MICRO 48-BTS 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 57 
X&M 1 
X&M 2 
X&M 3 
X&M 4 
MICRO2 19-FB 
MICRO2 19-FB 
MICRO 58 

BATTLEAXE/DEGRAYDE 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44-BTS 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 57 
X&M 2 
X&M 3 
X&M 4 

BATTLEAXE II 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 

BELLADONNA, DUCHESS 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 43-FB 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 

BIOSHIP 
MICRO 47-FB 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 
MICRO 51 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 57 
X&M 1 
X&M 2 
X&M 4 

BIOTRON 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 7-FB 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 47-FB 
MICRO 59-FB 
MICRO2 1-FB-BTS 
MICRO 7-FB 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 15 
MICRO 16 
MICRO 17 
MICRO 18 
MICRO 19 
MICRO 20 
MICRO 21 
MICRO 23 
MICRO 23/2 
MICRO 24 
MICRO@ 2 
MICRO 25 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 

BIOTRON II 
MICRO 58 
MICRO 59 
MICRO2 1 
MICRO2 2 
MICRO2 3 
MICRO2 4 
MICRO2 5 
MICRO2 9 
MICRO2 10 
MICRO2 11 
MICRO2 12 
MICRO2 13 
MICRO2 16 
MICRO2 17 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 

BUG 
MICRO 59-FB 
MICRO 42-FB 
MICRO 38/2-FB 
MICRO 13-FB 
MICRO 14-FB 
MICRO 38/2-FB 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 15 
MICRO 16 
MICRO 17 
MICRO 18 
MICRO 19 
MICRO 20 
MICRO 21 
MICRO 22 
MICRO 23 
MICRO 23/2 
MICRO 24 
MICRO@ 2 
MICRO 25 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 
MICRO 32 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 37 
MICRO 38 
MICRO 38/2 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 42 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 
MICRO 51 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 57 
X&M 1 
X&M 2 
X&M 3 
X&M 4 
MICRO 58 
MICRO 59 
MICRO2 1 
MICRO2 2 
MICRO2 3 
MICRO2 4 
MICRO2 5 
MICRO2 6 
MICRO2 8 
MICRO2 9 
MICRO2 10 
MICRO2 11 
MICRO2 12 
MICRO2 13 
MICRO2 14 
MICRO2 15 
MICRO2 16 
MICRO2 17 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 
MICRO2 20 

CILICIA 
MICRO 59-FB 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 15 
MICRO 16 
MICRO 17 
MICRO 18 
MICRO 19 
MICRO 20 
MICRO 21 
MICRO 22 
MICRO 23 
MICRO 23/2 
MICRO 24 
MICRO 25 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 
MICRO 52-FB 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 51 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO2 11 
MICRO2 18 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/ COFFIN, RAYMOND 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 12 
M/SPT2 9 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE II/ COFFIN, STEVE 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 12 
M/SPT2 9 

CENTAURIA 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 

COMPUTREX 
MICRO 24 
MICRO 44-FB 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 

CORAL 
MICRO 30-FB 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 58 

DAGON 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 

DARK, MAJOR 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 

DARK, CAPTAIN 
MICRO 57 

DEVIL 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 37 
MICRO 38 
MICRO 38/2 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 42 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50-FB 
MICRO 50 

DEVIL II 
MICRO 58 
MICRO2 9 
MICRO2 10-BTS 
MICRO2 11-BTS 
MICRO2 12-BTS 
MICRO2 13 
MICRO2 16-BTS 
MICRO2 17 

DIARMID 
MICRO2 15-FB 

DOCTOR DOOM 
FF 236 
FF 237 
**MICRO 41-FB 
MICRO 41 
FF 246 
FF 247 

EDEV 
MICRO2 15-FB 

ESMERA, QUEEN 
MICRO 26/2 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 

FIREFLYTE 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 

FIREFLYTE II 
MICRO 50 
MICRO 51 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 57 
X&M 1 
X&M 2 
X&M 3 
X&M 4 
MICRO 58 

FIREFLYTE III 
MICRO2 17 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 
MICRO2 20 

FIXER II 
M/TIO 26 
M/TIO 27 
**MICRO 25-FB 
MICRO 24 
MICRO 25 

FORCE COMMANDER/ PRINCE ARGON 
MICRO2 5-FB 
MICRO 59-FB 
MICRO2 15-FB 
MICRO 8-FB 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 22/2 
MICRO 23/3 
MICRO 24/2 
MICRO 25/2 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 26/2 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 34-FB 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 37 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 43-FB 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 

FRIA, QUEEN 
MICRO 32 

GALACTIC DEFENDER 
MICRO @ 1-FB 
MICRO @ 1 

GALACTIC DESTROYER 
MICRO 36 

GAREE 
MICRO 45 

HUNTARR/ IANN-23 
MICRO 59-FB 
MICRO 55-FB 
MICRO 37 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 
MICRO 51 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 57 
X&M 1 
X&M 2 
X&M 3 
X&M 4 
MICRO 58 
MICRO 59 
MICRO2 1 
MICRO2 2 
MICRO2 3 
MICRO2 4 
MICRO2 5 
MICRO2 7 
MICRO2 8 
MICRO2 9 
MICRO2 10 
MICRO2 11 
MICRO2 12 
MICRO2 13 
MICRO2 14 
MICRO2 15 
MICRO2 16 
MICRO2 17 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 
MICRO2 20 

ILLYRIE 
MICRO2 7-FB 

JANNA-23 
MICRO 55-FB 
MICRO 55 

JASMINE 
MICRO 42-FB 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 15 
MICRO 16 
MICRO 17 
MICRO 18 

JENKINS, ABNER 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 6 

JENKINS, MARTHA 
MICRO 6-BTS 

JONES, GABE 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 27 
**MICRO 28 (Yes, hes colored incorrectly, but this is supposed to be him.) 
MICRO 29 

KALI 
MICRO 35-FB 
MICRO 31-FB 

LAIOS 
MICRO2 7-FB-FB 
MICRO2 7-FB 

LITTLE D 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 
MICRO 57 

LOBROS 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 

MACEY, COLONEL 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 12 

MANTLO, BILL 
DHKF 19/2 
**MICRO 39 

MARA 
MICRO 31-FB 

MARGRACE 
MICRO 23/3 
MICRO 24/2 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 50 

MARIONETTE/ PRINCESS MARI 
MICRO2 5-FB 
MICRO 59-FB 
MICRO2 15-FB 
MICRO 8-FB 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 15 
MICRO 16 
MICRO 17 
MICRO 18 
MICRO 19 
MICRO 20 
MICRO 21 
MICRO 22 
MICRO 23 
MICRO 23/2 
MICRO 24 
MICRO@ 2 
MICRO 25 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 26/2 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 
MICRO 32 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 37 
MICRO 38 
MICRO 38/2 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 42 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 
MICRO 51 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 57 
X&M 1 
X&M 2 
X&M 3 
X&M 4 
MICRO 58 
MICRO 59 
MICRO2 1 
MICRO2 2 
MICRO2 3 
MICRO2 4 
MICRO2 5 
MICRO2 7 
MICRO2 8 
MICRO2 9 
MICRO2 10 
MICRO2 11 
MICRO2 12 
MICRO2 13 
MICRO2 14 
MICRO2 15 
MICRO2 16 
MICRO2 17 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 
MICRO2 20 

MENTALLO II 
M/TIO 26 
M/TIO 27 
CA 238 
**MICRO 25-FB 
MICRO 24 
MICRO 25 

MICROTRON 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 15 
MICRO 16 
MICRO 17 
MICRO 18 
MICRO 19 
MICRO 20 
MICRO 21 
MICRO 22 
MICRO 23 
MICRO 23/2 
MICRO 24 
MICRO@ 2 
MICRO 25 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 
MICRO 32 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 37 
MICRO 38 
MICRO 38/2 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 42 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 48 

MICROTRON II 
MICRO 58 
MICRO 59 
MICRO2 1 
MICRO2 2 
MICRO2 3 
MICRO2 4 
MICRO2 5 
MICRO2 9 
MICRO2 10 
MICRO2 11-BTS 
MICRO2 12 
MICRO2 13 
MICRO2 16 
MICRO2 17 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 

MUFFIN 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 12 
M/SPT2 9 

MURDER-1 
MICRO 54 

NANOTRON 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 37 
MICRO 38 
MICRO 38/2 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 42 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 48 

OBERON 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 22/2 
MICRO 23/3 
MICRO 24/2 
MICRO 25/2 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 43 

OJEEG 
MICRO 57 

ODD JOHN/ Judson, John 
MICRO 19-FB 
MICRO 19 
MICRO 20 

PEACOCK, PRINCE 
MICRO 32 
MICRO 33 

PHAROID, PRINCE 
MICRO 23/3 
MICRO 24/2 
MICRO 25/2 
MICRO 26/2 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 
MICRO 32 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 43-FB 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 

POLIBOS 
MICRO2 7-FB-FB 
MICRO2 7-FB 

PUPPET MASTER 
FF 236 
**MICRO 41-FB 
MICRO 41 
FF 246 

RANN, DALLAN 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 38-FB 
MICRO 7-FB 
MICRO 8-FB 

RANN, LADY SEPSIS 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 38-FB 
MICRO 7-FB 
MICRO 8-FB 

RYAK 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 

SCHNOZZ 
MICRO 53 

SCION 
MICRO2 2-BTS 
MICRO2 3-BTS 
MICRO2 8 
MICRO2 10 
MICRO2 11 
MICRO2 12 
MICRO2 13 
MICRO2 14 
MICRO2 16 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 
MICRO2 20 

SEELIA-23 
MICRO 55-FB 
MICRO 55 

SENESCHAL 
MICRO2 7-FB 

SHAITAN 
MICRO 38/2-FB 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 21/2 
MICRO 23/3 
MICRO 24/2 
MICRO 25/2 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 

SKULL 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 

SLUG 
MICRO 46-FB 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 22/2 
MICRO 23/3 
MICRO 24/2 
MICRO 25/2 
MICRO 26/2 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 43-FB 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 

SOLITAIRE 
MICRO2 19-FB 
MICRO2 5 
MICRO2 6 
MICRO2 8 
MICRO2 9 
MICRO2 10 
MICRO2 11 
MICRO2 12 
MICRO2 13 
MICRO2 14 
MICRO2 15 
MICRO2 16 
MICRO2 17 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 

SPACE GLIDER/ RANN, COMANDER ARCTURUS 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 38-FB 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 7-FB 
MICRO 48-FB 
MICRO 47-FB 
MICRO 59-FB 
MICRO2 1-FB-BTS 
MICRO 7-FB 
MICRO @ 1 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 3 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 15 
MICRO 16 
MICRO 17 
MICRO 18 
MICRO 19 
MICRO 20 
MICRO 21 
MICRO 22 
MICRO 23 
MICRO 23/2 
MICRO 24 
MICRO@ 2 
MICRO 25 
MICRO 26 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 29 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 
MICRO 32 
MICRO 33 
MICRO 34 
MICRO 35 
MICRO 36 
MICRO 37 
MICRO 38 
MICRO 38/2 
MICRO 39 
MICRO 40 
MICRO 41 
MICRO 42 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 
MICRO 45 
MICRO 46 
MICRO 47 
MICRO 48 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 50 
MICRO 51 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 53 
MICRO 54 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 57 
X&M 1 
X&M 2 
X&M 3 
X&M 4 
MICRO 58 
MICRO 59 
MICRO2 1 
MICRO2 2 
MICRO2 3 
MICRO2 4 
MICRO2 5 
MICRO2 7 
MICRO2 8 
MICRO2 9 
MICRO2 10 
MICRO2 11 
MICRO2 14 
MICRO2 17 
MICRO2 18 
MICRO2 19 
MICRO2 20 

SQUASH 
MICRO 53 

SWORD IN THE STAR 
MICRO 35-FB 
MICRO 31-FB 
MICRO 35-FB 
MICRO 35 

TAL 
MICRO 46-FB 

TIME TRAVELER (continues from Prince Wayfinder) 
MICRO 7-FB 
MICRO 30-FB 
MICRO 31-FB 
MICRO 33-FB 
MICRO 1 
MICRO 2 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 11 
MICRO 12 
MICRO 14 
MICRO 15 
MICRO 26/2 
MICRO 27 
MICRO 28 
MICRO 49 
MICRO 52 
MICRO 55 
MICRO 56 
MICRO 58 
MICRO2 20 

TREEFERN 
MICRO 56 

TOYMASTER/ PROMETHEUS, PHILLIP 
MICRO 5-FB 
MICRO 3-BTS 
MICRO 4 
MICRO 5 
MICRO 6 
MICRO 7 
MICRO 8 
MICRO@ 2-FB 
MICRO@ 2 
MICRO 44-FB 
MICRO 43 
MICRO 44 

TYBALT 
MICRO 30-FB 
MICRO 30 
MICRO 31 

UNIPOWER 
MICRO 8 
M/SPT2 9 
M/SPT2 10 
M/SPT2 11 
MICRO 35 

VANDENBURG, DOCTOR MARTIN 
MICRO 30 

VESPIAN 
MICRO 21/2 

WARTSTAFF 
MICRO 13 
MICRO 14 

WAYFINDER, PRINCE 
MICRO 35-FB 
MICRO 31-FB 
MICRO 35-FB 
(Continues as Time Traveller) 

WORLDMIND 
MICRO 12-FB 
MICRO 9 
MICRO 10 
MICRO 11 

YAMA 
MICRO 35-FB 
MICRO 31-FB

			*	*	*

Thread 24

Posted: 28 Aug 2006 07:11 pm    Post subject: Youngblood/X-Force & X-Force/Youngblood
By Dhall

Youngblood/X-Force 1 

July 1996 

Smokin Mojo 

X-Force: 
Domino 
Sunspot 
Warpath 
Meltdown 
Siryn 
Shatterstar 
Caliban 
Cable 

Professor X 
Cyclops 
Phoenix (Jean Grey) 
Beast 

Mojoverse: 
Dazzler (as the Agent) (also in fb) 
Mojo II (also in fb) 
Major Domo (also in fb) 
Minor Domo (in fb) 
Mojo 
Ricochet Rita 


Youngblood: 
Shaft (also in fb) 
Vogue (also in fb) 
Riptide (also in fb) 
Badrock (also in fb) 
Die Hard (also in fb) 
Knightsabre (also in fb) 

Bravo 

The Four: 
Showdown (in fb) 
Strongarm (in fb) 
Gage (in fb) 
Starbright (in fb) 



Flashback: The Agent tricks Youngblood into signing some papers and they are transported to the Mojoverse. Shaft escapes, and hops into a dimensional portal. 

Shaft appears in the Danger Room. X-Force team up with him and go to Mojoverse to sort things out. Mojo II whines about having been deposed, while Mojo and Major Domo plan to get a ratings bonanza out of Youngblood. X-Force and Youngblood team up, and split into two groups, one to destroy the portal in Mojoverse, and one to do the same on Image Earth (whatever thats called.) Both teams are successful, and X-Force is returned back to the Mojoverse. 

X-Force/Youngblood 
August 1996 

Dazzler (also in fb, before prev. issue) 
Ricochet Rita 
Longshot (also in fb) 

X-Force: 
Cable 
Warpath 
Caliban 
Sunspot 
Siryn 
Shatterstar 
Meltdown 
Domino 

Mojo 
Major Domo 

Youngblood: 
Shaft 
Badrock 
Die Hard 

Keever 
Sentinel 

The Four: 
Showdown 
Strongarm 
Gage 
Starbright 



Flashback: Dazzler is apparently shot, and presumed dead. Longshot is captured. 

X-Force teams up with Rita. Shaft, Badrock, and Die Hard return to the Mojoverse, via a Trans-Dimensional Accelerator. X-Force fights the Four. Shatterstar, Siryn and Warpath team up with Youngblood, and an alive Dazzler. Dazzler, Shaft, and Shatterstar free Longshot, while the rest confront Mojo. Instead of fighting, Mojo brings the house down, collapsing his palace, and disappearing. 

Notes on placement: Publication date places these issues somewhere in 1996. They must come after X-Force 57, and 58, as Caliban mentions fighting Mr. Sinister. These are presumably prior to the Mojo story in X-Force 59-61. The team line up, and costumes are perfect for this placement. 

These issues are an inter-company Marvel/Image crossover, where both teams are shown as coming from different Earths, so there should be no problems regarding canonicity. 

Marvel Characters: 

Beast 
 
X '96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
BEAST 1 
BEAST 2 
BEAST 3 
 

Cable 
 
X 96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 96 
XFOR 59 
 

Caliban 
 
X 96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 96 
XFOR 59 
 

Cyclops 
 
X '96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
X 60 
X 61 
 

Dazzler 
 
M/FAN2 4 
M/FAN2 5 
X 47 
** W2 102.5 (This was left out of her listing) 
**XFOR/Y 1-FB 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 60 
XFOR 61 
 

Domino 
 
X 96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 96 
XFOR 59 
 

Longshot 
 
M/FAN2 4 
M/FAN2 5 
W2 102.5 
**XFOR/Y 1-FB 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 59 
XFOR 60 
XFOR 61 
LSHOT2 1 
 

Meltdown 
 
X 96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 96 
XFOR 59 
 

Major Domo 
 
M/FAN2 4 
M/FAN2 5-FB 
M/FAN2 5 
**YOUNGBLOOD2 10 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XB 
 

Minor Domo 
** UX@ 12/2 
** XCAL:MM 
**UX@ 15/3 
M/CP 89/4 
**YOUNGBLOOD2 10 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 

Mojo 
 
X 11 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 60 
XFOR 61 
 

Mojo II 
MOJO II 
** {X@ 1} 
** UX@ 16 
X 10 
X 11 
M/FAN2 4 
M/FAN2 5 
W2 102.5 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**Y/XFOR 1 



Phoenix IV 
 
X '96 
** Y/XFOR 1 
X 60 
X 61 
 

Prof. Xavier 
 
UX 338 
X '96 
** Y/XFOR 1 
X 61 
 

Ricochet Rita 
LSHOT 2 
LSHOT 4 
LSHOT 5 
LSHOT 6 
XF@ 7-FB 
UX@ 12/2 
XCAL:MM 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Shatterstar 
 
X 96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 96 
XFOR 59 
 

Siryn 
 
X 96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 96 
XFOR 59 
 

Sunspot 
 
X 96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 96 
XFOR 59 
. 

Warpath 
 
X 96 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 
XFOR 96 
XFOR 59 
. 



Image Characters: 
(Not sure why you would need to list them, but if you do) 

Badrock 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Bravo 
**Y/XFOR 1 

Die Hard 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Gage 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Keever 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Knightsabre 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**Y/XFOR 1 

Riptide 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**Y/XFOR 1 

Sentinel 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Shaft 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**Y/XFOR 1 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Showdown 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Starbright 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Strongarm 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB 
**XFOR/Y 1 

Vogue 
**Y/XFOR 1-FB

Last edited by Dhall on 29 Aug 2006 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Aug 2006 07:59 pm    
By Jason Doty

David there is an issue of Youngblood that leads directly into these crossovers and features Mojo, I can't remember which one but will try to find the number for you.

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Aug 2006 08:27 pm    
By Dhall

Thanks Jason!

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Aug 2006 07:46 am    
By jephyork
Director

It's Youngblood vol.2 #10. Mojo, Major Domo and Minor Domo cameo on the last few pages, happy at having discovered the Image Universe and their stable of TV-loving heroes. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Aug 2006 12:01 pm    
By Dhall

Thanks Jeph. I've edited my post, to add this issue to Major and Minor Domo'd listings. 

Dave

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2006 06:26 am    
By Jason Doty

You need to add it to Mojo's listing as well.

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2006 07:46 am    
By Dhall

He's not in it.

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2006 08:34 am    
By jephyork
Director

Oh no? Crazy. I could have sworn ... ah well. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2006 08:49 am    
By Dhall

Unless you think he qualifies for a BTS appearance, or something like that.

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2006 10:21 am    
By jephyork
Director

No, not at all, I just thought I remembered him appearing on-panel. I don't own the issue anymore so I can't check, and I assume you checked it before posting, so ... there we have it. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Sep 2006 05:42 pm    
By Dhall

The last few pages have Major Domo and Minor Domo looking at the Youngblood Earth, making small talk about the heroes there. It ends with MInor Domo saying how poleased Mojo will be with the discovery, and Major Domo we must notify him at once.

			*	*	*

Thread 25

Posted: 13 Sep 2006 09:03 pm    Post subject: Captain America Comics 2-5 & misc
By Col_Fury

Captain America Comics #2 pg1-pg15 
Benson & Finley argue over tax evasion, and Benson has a solution. He orders one of his giant slave monsters to kill Thompson, a government official whos looking into their assets. Thompson is killed, Betty Ross is nearby so she investigates. Benson orders the giants to kill his partner Finley, then Ross, who is saved by Cap & Bucky. 
Betty Ross visits Camp Lehigh, and is attacked by giants. Steve & Bucky drive them off, so Benson orders the giants to rob banks to get him money. Cap & Bucky track the giants back to Benson, and Cap is captured. Benson reveals where the giants came from, Cap & Bucky kill the giants, and Benson dies in the explosion. 

Captain America Comics #2/2 pg1-pg15 
Rich guy Henry Baldwin pledges to donate money to Britain to help the war effort. However, hes kidnapped by Nazis. 
Baldwins abduction is reported in the papers, so Cap & Bucky go to Europe to find him. Meanwhile, Hitler plans to send a Baldwin look-a-like to donate money to Italy instead of Britain. 
Steve & Bucky read in the papers that Baldwin will arrive in London as planned. 
Cap & Bucky reveal the fake Baldwin at the donation ceremony, then go to Germany to rescue the real Baldwin. They fight some Nazis, beat up Hitler & Goering, and save Baldwin. 
Newspapers report that Baldwin donated money to Britain. 

Captain America Comics #2/3 pg1-pg15 
Cap & Bucky defeat the Wax Mans invading force of Nazis from attacking Camp Lehigh. 
Wax Man has Bucky kidnapped, and Cap quickly finds him. Cap & Bucky beat up the wax man and discover that hes the towns mayor. 

Captain America Comics #3 pg1-pg17 
Picking up directly after the end of Captain America Comics , the Red Skull wakes up, reveling hes immune to his own poison. Some time later, the Red Skull kills Major Douglas and takes specifications for a new power drill. Cap & Bucky investigate, and are surprised to hear that the Skull is alive. 
Reports of the Red Skulls return hits the papers, and he proceeds to use the power drill to wreak havoc. Cap & Bucky drive him off. Meanwhile at a carnival, two people pose as Cap & Bucky to make money, but the Red Skull, thinking theyre the real deal, captures and kills them. Cap & Bucky arrive and destroy his power drill. 
Newspapers report on the Skulls defeat. 

Captain America Comics #3/2 pg1-pg17 
Movie producer Mark Carstine decides to make a movie called the Tyrant, even though it would upset Germany. 
The movie crew for the Tyrant continues to prepare on location, and someone rights the producer a note. Carstine receives it, calls the police about a death threat, but is killed before he can finish the call. 
Despite the death of producer Carstine, the movie will continue. Casting soldiers from Camp Lehigh, Steve & Bucky get jobs as extras. Filming begins, and someone is killed. Cap & Bucky spring into action and capture the killer. 

Captain America Comics #3/3 pg1-pg11 
Artifacts are loaded into a museum. 
After midnight, a guard is killed by a giant butterfly and jewels are stolen from the museum. That night, another guard is killed and a diamond is stolen. 
Bucky is touring the museum and goes missing. Cap goes to find him and fights the killer butterfly, who turns out to be the museum curator. He has a heart attack and dies, and Cap frees Bucky. 

Captain America Comics #4 pg1-pg15 
Various people are killed by homeless people. Bucky follows some converging homeless people and discovers theyre Nazi spies in disguise. Buckys in trouble, but Cap bursts in and fights the Nazis. They quickly defeat the group, and then follow the leader to a nearby boat. They blow it up, then arrest the group of spies. 

Captain America Comics #4/2 pg1-9 
Bucky dreams of knights and kings, and Steve wakes him up. 

Captain America Comics #4/3 pg1-pg10 
Cap & Bucky go to Hillsdale to look into rumors of counterfeiters in a haunted house. They fight some mobsters dressed up as ghosts and find a captured Betty Ross. She tells them of the counterfeiter boss. 
Cap & Bucky return to Hillsdale and defeat the counterfeiters. 

Captain America Comics #4/4 pg1-pg13 
Bucky is injured while fighting crooks, so Steve takes him to a creepy hospital. 
Cap returns to the hospital and is followed by Betty Ross. Theyre attacked by a giant gorilla, and Bucky kills it. 

Captain America Comics #5 pg1-pg12 
Steve & Bucky are at a circus where a general is killed by Nazis. They change into Cap & Bucky and subdue a tiger. 
Betty Ross stops by the camp and decides to warn the commissioner. That night, hes killed before she can reach him. Shes captures by the circus Nazis, so Cap & Bucky, who were trailing her, follow them and defeat the Ringmaster. 

Captain America Comics #5/2 pg1-pg15 
Steve is informed that he & Bucky will escort a general to Hawaii. Meanwhile, a mechanical dragon attacks Kunoa Island Naval base. 
Steve, Bucky, and the general arrive in Hawaii. Meanwhile, captured navy men are tortured. That night, Cap & Bucky follow disguised Japanese agents who have captured a girl to sacrifice to the sea serpent, and they are swallowed by it at sea. After discovering the plan to destroy the Hawaiian Naval base, they save the prisoners, stop the plan, and severely damage the serpent submarine. 

Marvel Universe 1-3 references this story! 

Captain America Comics #5/3 pg1-pg10 
Bundists attack German-American Heinrich Shmidt for refusing to join them. 
Buckys friend Bob Shmidt tells Steve & Bucky that his dad has been hospitalized, so they go to visit Heinrich. That night, they attack a Bundist camp to teach them a lesson. 
Bucky sends his Sentinels of Liberty to spy on Fifth Columnists. Elsewhere, Captain America is captured. He breaks free and beats up some Bundists. Bucky arrives with the Sentinels of Liberty and they teach them another lesson. 
Heinrich thanks Steve & Bucky for looking over his son while he was in the hospital. 

Captain America Comics #5/4 pg1-pg6 
Cap & Bucky go to Vichy France and free their friend Tom Jason, a prisoner of war. 


This is what Caps chronology currently looks like: 

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1/3 
CA:SL2 6/3-BTS 
CA:SL2 7 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
TOS 64/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 8 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 8/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 8/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 9 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 9/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 9/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 10 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 10/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 10/3 
TOS 65/2 
TOS 66/2-FB-BTS 
TOS 66/2 
TOS 67/2 
TOS 68/2 
CA 423 
BP3 30-FB 
YOUNG ALLIES 1 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22 
INV 29-FB 
GSINV 1 
 
INVADERS 
 
INV2 4 
CA '98-FB 
CA:ME (01/07/43) 
DF 2.4 (late '43) 
DF 3.6 
CA:SL2 2-FB 
CA:SL2 2 
CA:SL2 3 
CA:SL2 4 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
CA:DMR 2-FB 
TOS 75/2-FB 
TOS 77/2-FB 
CA '01-FB (late summer/44) 
CA3 32-FB (12/44) 
M/U 1-FB 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 
M/U 3 
TOS 69/2 
TOS 70/2 
TOS 69/2 
TOS 70/2 
TOS 71/2 
TOS 63/2 
UX 268-FB 
TOS 63/2 
TOS 71/2 
A 213-FB 
TOS 72/2-FB 
TOS 79/2-FB 
H2 284 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78 
CA@ 13-FB 
CA:SL2 7 
WX2 14-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
CA:SL2 12-FB 
A 56-FB 
 

Captain America Comics 1/2 is retold in Tales of Suspense 64/2. Both are listed, but separately. 

Captain America Comics 1/4 is retold in Tales of Suspense 65/2. TOS 65/2 is listed, but Captain America Comics 1/4 is not. 

For now, Ill just list these concurrently, until we decide how to handle them. 

Captain America Comics 1, TOS 63/2, CA: SL2 6/3, CA: SL2 7, CA: SL2 12-FBs, & BP3 30-FB were covered here. CA@ 13, TOS 72/2, & TOS 79/2 were covered here. 

A 213-FB is currently listed between TOS issues. After battles in France, but before the Red Skull dies. The problem is, the narration over the FlashBack states that its early in Caps career, at a time when he had little to no battlefield experience. Due to his inexperience, he almost kills an orphan. This should be moved earlier, to a time before hes shown to be a really good battlefield fighter, at least before TOS 66/2-68/2. 

UX 268-FB is currently listed as happening after M/U 1-3. The problem is, M/U 1-3 refers to the plot of UX 268-FB, which means that UX 268-FB has to occur at least before M/U 1-3. Also, August 1941 is stated in UX 268-FB, and its currently listed after comics that have dates of 1944. 

Speaking of M/U 1-3, its stated in issue 2 as taking place in May 1944. 

CA 423 shows a time when Captain America is not yet known to the public, and is not yet a public figure. He & Bucky are meeting with FDR for a press conference to unveil them to the public, then Namor attacks. Its currently listed after TOS 66/2-68/2, when Cap is well known, so well known that the Red Skull wants to use him as propaganda. Im going to suggest moving this earlier to a time after Bucky has finished his training, but before Cap is recognized by the public. Also, its stated in the comic as being in Spring 1941. 

TOS 66/2-68/2 has the Red Skull refer to Captain America Comics 1/4~TOS 65/2 as being recent, or last month. This has to happen at least after Captain America Comics 3, where the Maxon Skull returns, because that story continues from CAC 1/4 and its the same Skull impostor. 

Young Allies 1 is listed as occurring before TOS 66/2 in the Red Skull IIs chronology, so thats where my suggestion for that move comes from. However, Captain America Comics 7 should be after TOS 68/2 in the Red Skulls chronology due to TOS 66/2-TOS 68/2 following closely behind Captain America Comics 1/4 & 3. 

CA: SL2 2 states that it occurs in 1942, and yet its currently listed after comics that have a late 43 notation. 

Cap is noted as being delayed in the Pacific in Truth 4, and should be given a BTS for the issue. Its noted that this segment occurs in September of 1942. 

CA 219-FB is not currently in captain Americas chronology, but it is in the Red Skulls. It involves Cap & Bucky guarding the filming of the serial Adventures of Captain America, and shows what Dekker was doing before he started fooling around with nerve gas. Its stated as happening in 1944. 

Another missing appearance is a FlashBack from CA 109. It shows Cap & Bucky destroying coastal guns to prepare for the D-Day invasion. Its stated as occurring in the early hours of D-Day, so it should have a 06/06/44 notation. 

Herere some page/panel ranges for TOS 69/2-71/2: 

Tales of Suspense #69/2 pg1-pg9 
Dr. Rawlings conducts shrinking experiments in Greymoor Castle in Britain. His Nazi supervisors are pleased, but his sister is disappointed in him for turning traitor. Meanwhile, Steves company stationed in Britain, finishes a march in preparation for a big push coming up. That night, the company leaves for its push, the base is attacked and Bucky is captured. Steves company accomplishes its mission in France and Cap intercepts a Nazi message that Bucky has been captured, so he hops in a plane and attacks its Nazi pilots. But Nazi reinforcements are coming to the companys location 

Tales of Suspense #70/2 pg1-pg2pn3 
Cap overpowers the pilots and flies the plane. 

Tales of Suspense #69/2 pg10 
Bucky is laid out in Greymoor Castle in preparation for shrinkage. Meanwhile, Cap approaches in his captured plane. 

Tales of Suspense #70/2 pg2pn4-pg10 
Bucky is strapped to a table, and the Nazis contact Captain America. Cap is attacked by British planes, who think hes a Nazi. He evades them and enters Greymoor Castle. Hes attacked and captured. Meanwhile in France, Nazi reinforcements attack and Steve absence is noticed. 

Tales of Suspense #71/2 pg1-pg10 
Cap & Bucky are loaded into a rocket that is aimed at Churchills address in London, but they escape and defeat the Nazis, but Rawlings sister is killed. The rocket is launched at France instead, which defeats the Nazi reinforcements there. Rawlings had set the rocket launch to cause damage, which destroys Greymoor Castle, the Nazis, and himself. Cap & Bucky escape. 

TOS 63/2 has already been removed from inbetween TOS 71/2, and as can be seen, theres no space for any other comics, either. UX 268-FB couldnt appear here, and should be moved along with the other reasons above. 

CA 01 is in late summer 1944, but its given a more specific August 1944 within the comic. 

WX2 14-FB is stated as occurring in 1944, and theres snow on the ground with trees with no leafs. Its currently listed along with comics in 1945, after FDR died. It should be moved a bit earlier to after CA 01 and before CA3 32-FB. 

Since weve already seen parts of CA: SL2 7/2 earlier in Caps chronology, the specific pages here are pg9-pg10. Bucky informs Steve that FDR has died today. The date is not given in the comic, but FDR died on 12 April, 1945. 

Cap & Bucky have a new appearance in Saga of the Human Torch 2. The Invaders report to receive assignments, and theyre informed of FDRs death. Namor is sent to the Pacific, Cap & Bucky are sent to guard a drone plane, and Torch & Toro will try to capture Hitler in a few weeks. This has to occur after CA: SL2 7/2 pg9-pg10, and before CA@ 13, where Cap has taken a diversion from guard duty to find Hitlers strong box. 

As for fitting this stuff in with the Golden Age comics, I agree that the pre-Invaders cut off should be Captain America Comics 10.(followed by the pushed forward 22, of course) Issue 10 was published in January 1942, and the Invaders series runs from December 1941 to June 1942, so 10 occurs before Invaders, and 11 occurs afterwards. As for some others, there was a publishing gap between issues 4 & 5, 4 published in June & 5 published in August, the perfect spot for Young Allies 1,(published in July 1941) TOS 66/2-TOS 68/2 & UX 268-FB! 

After all of that juggling above, heres a reworked suggestion for Cap, Bucky & Red Skull: 

Captain America/ Steven Rogers 
 
CA5 14-FB pg21pn3-pg21pn6 
A 213-FB 
CA: SL2 12-FB pg17 
 
TOS 63/2 pg10pn5 
CA 423 (spring/41) 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1/2~TOS 64/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1/4~TOS 65/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 2/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 2/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 3/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 3/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 4 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 4/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 4/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 4/4 
YOUNG ALLIES 1 
TOS 66/2-FB 
TOS 66/2 
TOS 67/2 
TOS 68/2 
UX 268-FB (08/41) 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5/4 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 8 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 8/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 8/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 9 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 9/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 9/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 10 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 10/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 10/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22 
INV 29-FB 
GSINV 1 
 
INVADERS 
 
INV2 4 
CA '98-FB 
CA:SL2 2-FB 
CA:SL2 2 (1942) 
CA:SL2 3 
CA:SL2 4 
TRUTH 4-BTS (09/42) 
TRUTH 6-FB 
CA:ME (01/07/43) 
DF 2.4 (late/43) 
DF 3.6 
CA 219-FB(1944) 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
M/U 1-FB 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 (05/44) 
M/U 3 
CA 109-FB pg1-pg6pn2 (06/06/44) 
TOS 69/2 pg1-pg9 
TOS 70/2 pg1-pg2pn3 
TOS 69/2 pg10 
TOS 70/2 pg2pn4-pg10 
TOS 71/2 
H2 284 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
TOS 75/2-FB 
TOS 77/2-FB 
CA: DMR 2-FB 
WX2 14-FB (1944) 
CA3 32-FB (12/44) 
CA:SL2 12-FB pg23-pg29 
CA:SL2 7/2 pg9-pg10 (04/12/45) 
SAGAHT 2 
CA:SL2 12-FB pg31-pg33 
CA@ 13-FB pg9-pg15 
TOS 72/2-FB pg3pn1-pg3pn3 
 

Bucky/James Buchanan Bucky Barnes 
 
TOS 63/2 pg10pn5 
CA 423 (spring/41) 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1/2~TOS 64/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 1/4~TOS 65/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 2/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 2/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 3/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 3/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 4 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 4/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 4/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 4/4 
YOUNG ALLIES 1 
TOS 66/2-FB-BTS 
TOS 66/2-BTS 
TOS 67/2 
TOS 68/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5/4 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 6/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 8 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 8/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 8/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 9 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 9/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 9/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 10 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 10/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 10/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22 
INV 29-FB 
GSINV 1 
 
INVADERS 
 
INV2 1-FB 
CA '98-FB 
CA:ME (01/07/43) 
DF 2.4-FB 
DF 2.4 (late/43) 
DF 3.6 
CA 219-FB(1944) 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
M/U 1-FB 
CA 109-FB pg1-pg6pn2 (06/06/44) 
H2 284 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
CA3 32-FB (12/44) 
CA:SL2 12-FB pg23-pg29 
CA:SL2 7/2 (04/12/45) 
SAGAHT 2 
CA:SL2 12-FB pg31-pg33 
CA:SL2 12 pg1-pg4, pg8, pg9pn2 
A 56-FB pg8pn3 
 

HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
... 
M/U 1-FB 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 (05/44) 
M/U 3 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
... 

SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE 
... 
M/U 1-FB 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 (05/44) 
M/U 3 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
... 

RED SKULL II/JOHANN SCHMIDT 
 
YOUNG ALLIES 1 
TOS 66/2-FB 
TOS 66/2 
TOS 67/2 
TOS 68/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 7 
 
CA 219-FB(1944) 
CA@ 9/2-FB(04/44) 
M/U 1 
TOS 69/2-BTS 
TOS 70/2-BTS 
TOS 71/2-BTS 
CA '01 (08/44) 
CA@ 13-FB pg9-pg15 (04/45) 
TOS 72/2-FB pg3pn1-pg3pn3 
... 

Sadly, I'm not sure how this segement fits in yet: 

... 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 16 
YOUNG ALLIES 4 
SGTF 25 
ALL SELECT 2 
FURY 1-FB 
... 

I will eventually get to SGTF 25 & FURY 1, but I have no idea about the plots for CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 16, YOUNG ALLIES 4, & ALL SELECT 2. An educated guess based solely on publication dates: 

 
M/PRM 30 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 16 
YOUNG ALLIES 4 
CA 219-FB(1944) 
CA 220-FB 
ALL SELECT 2 
CA@ 9/2-FB(04/44) 
M/U 1 
TOS 69/2-BTS 
TOS 70/2-BTS 
TOS 71/2-BTS 
CA '01 (08/44) 
CA@ 13-FB pg9-pg15 (04/45) 
TOS 72/2-FB pg3pn1-pg3pn3 
... 

Red Skull does appear in CA 220-FB, rescuing then disposing of Dekker.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Thread 26

Posted: 19 Sep 2006 12:30 am    Post subject: Captain America: 65th Anniversary Special #1
By Col_Fury

Captain America: 65th Anniversary Special #1 

Appearances: 
WWII: Captain America(Steve Rogers), Bucky(James Barnes), Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Dino Manelli, Gabe Jones, 2 other Howlers, Red Skull(Johann Schmidt), Hermann Dexx, Gretchen & Richard. 
Epilogue: Captain America(Steve Rogers), Agent 13(Sharon Carter), Aleksander Lukin, Red Skull(Johann Schmidt). 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg11: April 1944, behind enemy lines 
Cap, Bucky, Sgt. Fury & his Howling Commandos parachute outside Eisendorf to meet some German resistance fighters, and to find out what the Red Skull is up to. They encounter some Nazis and defeat them, but Bucky is injured. Cap gets him to their contact, whos father is a doctor, and the Howlers start their recon on the Skull. Bucky will be fine but needs rest, so cap is filled in on whats happening. 
Pg12pn1-pg12pn2: FB, two weeks ago 
The Red Skull arrives in Eisendorf with scientist Hermann Dexx, and has his men start to excavate the nearby castle ruins. 
Pg12pn3-pg22: same day as pg11 
Cap regroups with the Howlers and they come up with a plan. That night, Bucky & Gretchen go to the library to look into the history of the castle, while Cap & Fury go to the Nazi command post to find out what theyre looking for. They regroup and prepare their attack. 
Pg23-pg36: after midnight 
Sgt. Fury & his Howling Commandos create a diversion while Cap goes after the Skull, and while Bucky & Gretchen rescue Dexx. Cap finds the Skull as a giant Sleeper robot activates. He destroys it, the Red Skull grabs the schematics and escapes, and the explosion destroys the castle. Cap digs himself out and regroups with the Howlers. After dawn, Bucky says goodbye to Gretchen and the group leaves for the extraction point. 
Pg37: Epilogue 
Aboard the Helicarrier, Cap & Agent 13 talk about the Eisendorf mission, and then about finding Bucky. 
Pg38: outside Eisendorf 
Lukin chats with the Red Skull as he makes his way to the ruins of Eisendorf castle. 

References: 
Since pg 37-pg38 are labeled as an epilogue, I dont think we should treat the first 36 pages as a FlashBack. 

Besides Fury, there are five Howlers. Dum Dum & Dino are named, and Gabe cant be anyone else but Gabe.(who else plays a trumpet?) As for the other two, theres no real way to identify them with how theyre drawn. Id say Reb & Izzy, but they arent named, or talk, so there you go. 

April 1944. CA@ 9/2-FB was also in April of 44, and this should follow that because in the epilogue, Cap mentions that he & Bucky met up with the Invaders two days after Eisendorf. 

The Red Skull took the Sleeper robot schematics, and the Sleepers are later seen in TOS 72/2 & CA5 21. 

A Baron who lived in Eisendorf castle created the Sleeper robot about 500 years ago, and apparently that Baron was Dr. Doom, at least according to the parchment on pg38. An implication to be sure, it could be an ancestor of Doom, but its most likely one of Dooms time travel adventures. None of this is actually shown, of course. I dont think that this merits a BTS for Doom, because they only dug up a robot he left laying around. Its not like Spider-Man would get a BTS if someone found his old web-shooters in a closet or something. 

For the epilogue, the letters page in CA5 16 puts this between CA5 17 & 18. CA5 17 ends with Steve & Sharon approaching the Helicarrier, and CA5 18 opens with Steve already in England. Theres no mention if pg37 & pg38 are on the same day or not. 

And now, some placement suggestions: 

For the epilogue, between CA5 17 & CA5 18. There could be space after the 65th Anniversary Special & CA5 18 for other appearances, but I wouldnt put anything between CA5 17 & the Special for Cap or Sharon. For Skull & Lukin, I dont think it matters, as they havent appeared anywhere else recently. 

For the WWII segment: 

Captain America/ Steven Rogers 
... 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
*CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
M/U 1-FB 
 

Bucky/James Buchanan Bucky Barnes 
 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
*CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
M/U 1-FB 
 

RED SKULL II/JOHANN SCHMIDT 
 
CA@ 9/2-FB 1 (04/44) 
*CA:65AS 1-FB 
*CA:65AS 1 (04/44) 
M/U 1 
 

FURY, COL. NICHOLAS 'NICK' JOSEPH 
 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
*CA:65AS 1 (04/44) 
 

DUGAN, TIMOTHY ALOYISIOUS CADWALLADER 'DUM DUM' 
 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
*CA:65AS 1 (04/44) 
 

MANELLI, DINO 
 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
*CA:65AS 1 (04/44) 
 

JONES, GABRIEL 'GABE' 
 
M/CP 79/2 
*CA:65AS 1 (04/44) 
 

And that is my 500th post!
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2006 06:08 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks for the analysis, Col_Fury, and congrats on your 500th post! 

One question: you suggest putting the Special's epilogue immediately after CA5 17. Is this simply because Cap and Sharon approach the helicarrier at the end of CA5 17 and are on board in the epilogue, or are there other clues?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Sep 2006 11:36 am    
By Col_Fury

Nope, that was the only clue.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

			*	*	*

Thread 27

Posted: 17 Sep 2006 02:18 am    Post subject: Captain America v5 1-15-FBs, & misc
By Col_Fury

Captain America v5 #1-FB pg1-pg5 
A Red Guardian tries to arrest General Aleksander Lukin. Lukin kills him as the Red Skull watches. They come across Bucky in stasis, which surprises the Red Skull. 

-5 years ago 

Captain America v5 #2-FB pg10 
General Phillips shows Steve a film reel of the Red Skull, then suggests they see what his uniform will look like. . 

-Theres only one place for this to go. CA 255-FB, between pg9pn2 & pg9pn3; after Gen. Phillips shows Steve a photograph of the Red Skull, and before he gives him his uniform. 

Captain America v5 #3-FB pg16-pg18pn1 
The Invaders fight alongside the French Resistance against the Nazis in Paris. 

Captain America v5 #3-FB pg18pn2 
The Invaders attend the Victory Parade in Paris. 

-August, 1944. This segment covers the Allies retaking Paris. Another comic that showed Cap present during this was TOS 77/2-FB. Heres some page/panel ranges: 

Tales of Suspense #77/2-FB pg3-5 
Captain America fights with the French resistance against Nazi forces in France. Hes called to another area and says goodbye to his girlfriend Peggy Carter. 

Tales of Suspense #77/2-FB pg6-pg10pn6 
Nazis lead captured French Resistance leaders, including Peggy, to be executed. Captain America arrives with Allied and French Resistance forces and overtake Paris. Paris is liberated, but Peggy Carter has amnesia. Cap tries to find her, but fails. 

-Of course, the Invaders werent shown in TOS 77/2, as that series/group wasnt around yet. I think these read nicely like this: 

TOS 77/2-FB pg3-pg5 
CA5 3-FB pg16-pg18pn1 
TOS 77/2-FB pg6-pg10pn6 
CA5 3-FB pg18pn2 

Captain America v5 #5-FB pg3-pg10 
Cap & Bucky attack a German division on the Russian Front alongside Russian troops. They take a captive back to camp, and Colonel Vasily Karpov tortures him for information. Cap informs Namor & the Torch that theyre going to a small village called Kronas, where the Nazis have a secret weapon. That night, Cap has a chat with Karpov. 

Captain America v5 #5-FB pg11-pg19 
The Invaders attack Kronas along with Karpovs squad. Namor and the Torches fight Master Man while Cap & Bucky find the weapon, which is being operated by the Red Skull. He sets fire to the town and escapes. Afterwards, Karpov tries to capture the Nazi weapon, but its booby trapped and explodes, killing his men. The Invaders leave in Namors flagship, Karpov stays behind in the ruins of Kronas, taking custody of a surviving orphan, Alek. 

-early November, 1942. 

Captain America v5 #8-FB pg1, pg20-pg21 
Aboard an experimental Soviet submarine near Dover, Colonel Karpov is informed that Captain America has been blown up over the English Channel. They make their way there, and find Buckys frozen body. 

Captain America v5 #11-FB pg3pn1-pg3pn3 
Buckys frozen body has been found by the Russians, who deliver him to their scientists. 

-5 May, 1945 

Captain America v5 #11-FB pg4pn1-pg4pn2 
The process of reheating Buckys body begins. 

-the next day, so 6 May, 1945 

Captain America v5 #11-FB pg5-pg7pn2 
Since he was frozen so soon after death, the scientists decide to try to revive Bucky, and succeed. Hes amnesiac, but his physical memory and reflexes are excellent. Hes sedated so further tests can be conducted. 

-7 May, 1945 

Captain America v5 #11-FB pg7pn3 
After discovering that Bucky did not receive the Super Soldier Serum, hes put back into stasis. 

-21 May, 1945 

Captain America v5 #11-FB pg8-pg10 
June 1954-6 November, 1954; field tests 

Captain America v5 #11-FB pg11 
11 January, 1955-1 January, 1956; missions begin 

Captain America v5 #11-FB pg12-pg18 
1 April, 1956-4 August, 1988; more missions through decommission 

Captain America #11-FB pg20pn2-pg21pn5 
On a weeks leave, Steve & Bucky go to the movies. 

Captain America v5 #12-FB pg5-pg6 
Gen. Phillips gives Steve a tour of Camp Lehigh, and they watch Bucky spar. 

-sadly, August 1941 doesnt quite line up with other comics. However, it must occur before Steve meets Bucky, and early in Steves time at Camp Lehigh. 

Captain America v5 #12-FB pg14-pg15, pg18-pg19 
Cap & Bucky fight Nazis in Arnhem looking for the Red Skull, but Allied troops who have been turned into zombies are released. Cap & Bucky attack, but the zombies blow up the bridge, and themselves. 

-September, 1944. 

Captain America #14-FB pg16-pg17(montage) 
Mostly a remembrance FB with no new information, but there are 2 new images. 

Pg16: a young Bucky is led into Camp Lehigh. 

Pg17: Karpov toasts with the Winter Soldier. 

Captain America v5 #15-FB pg1-pg4 
Cap & Bucky, along with Allied troops, are fighting Nazis to get to the Red Skull. The Red Skull throws a grenade and blows up some of the Allied troops along with his own, but misses Cap & Bucky. 

-No date given, but Ive put it close to CA5 12-FB pg14-pg15, pg18-pg19, seeing as Cap & Bucky were looking for the Skull there. 

Captain America Annual #13/2-FB pg5pn2-pg6 
While doing laundry, Biz discovers Captain Americas uniform in Steve Rogers personal belongings at Camp Lehigh. 

Captain America Annual #13/2-FB pg7-pg8pn3 
Foreign operatives torture Biz to try to find out where Captain America is, but Cap arrives and beats them senseless. He thanks Biz for not saying anything. 

-Early in Caps career, original shield, open neck costume. 

And now, some placement suggestions: 

Captain America/ Steven Rogers 
 
CA 255-FB pg9pn1-pg9pn2 
*CA5 2-FB 
CA 255-FB pg9pn3-pg16 
BP3 30-FB 
*CA@ 13/2-FB 
CA 255-FB pg17 
 
CA: SL2 7/2 pg6-pg8 
*CA5 12-FB pg5-pg6 
CA 109-FB pg19pn1-pg19pn3 
 
INV 41 
*CA5 11-FB 
GSINV 2 (06/19/42) 
INV2 1 (6/22/42) 
 
TRUTH 4-BTS (09/42) 
TRUTH 6-FB 
*CA5 5-FB (11/42) 
CA:ME (01/07/43) 
 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
TOS 75/2-FB 
TOS 77/2-FB pg3-pg5 
*CA5 3-FB pg16-pg18pn1 (08/44) 
TOS 77/2-FB pg6-pg10pn6 
*CA5 3-FB pg18pn2 
CA: DMR 2-FB 
*CA5 12-FB pg14-pg15, pg18-pg19 (09/44) 
*CA5 15-FB 
WX2 14-FB (late 44) 
 

Bucky/James Buchanan Bucky Barnes 
*CA5 14-FB pg16 
CA5 12-FB pg5-pg6 
 
INV 39 
*CA5 11-FB pg20pn2-pg21pn5 
INV2 1-FB 
CA '98-FB 
*CA5 5-FB (11/42) 
CA:ME (01/07/43) 
 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
*CA5 3-FB (08/44) 
*CA5 12-FB pg14-pg15, pg18-pg19 (09/44) 
*CA5 15-FB 
CA3 32-FB (12/44) 
 
A 4-FB pg7pn4 
CA5 11-FB-FB pg3pn4 
*CA5 8-FB 
*CA5 11-FB pg3pn1-pg3pn3 
*CA5 11-FB pg4-pg10 
*CA5 14-FB pg17 
*CA5 11-FB pg11 
*W3 40-FB 
*W3 38-FB 
*CA5 11-FB pg12-pg18 
*CA5 1-FB 
*CA5 1 
 
(S-H2 53 is currently listed after A 4-FB, but I don't own that comic, so I'm not sure if it's Bucky's ghost or something...) 

SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE 
 
CA:SL2 4 
*CA5 5-FB (11/42) 
N@ 2/2 (1943) 
M/U 1-FB 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 (05/44) 
M/U 3 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
*CA5 3-FB (08/44) 
WX2 14-FB (late 44) 
 
(N@ 2/2 is currently listed between two 1942 appearances. N@ 2/2 is noted as being in 1943) 

HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
 
CA:SL2 4 
*CA5 5-FB (11/42) 
DF 2.4 (late/43) 
 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
*CA5 3-FB (08/44) 
WX2 14-FB (late 44) 
 

TORO/TOM RAYMOND 
 
INV2 1-FB 
*CA5 5-FB (11/42) 
M/U 1-FB 
CA '01-FB (08/44) 
*CA5 3-FB (08/44) 
N@ 1/2-FB 
 

RED SKULL II/JOHANN SCHMIDT 
 
YOUNG ALLIES 4 
*CA5 5-FB (11/42) 
CA 262-FB (1943) 
 
CA '01 (08/44) 
*CA5 15-FB 
CA@ 13-FB pg9-pg15 (04/45) 
 

MASTER MAN/WILHELM LOHMER 
 
INV 41 
*CA5 5-FB (11/42) 
CA:ME (01/07/43) 
WX2 14-FB (late/44) 
 

Coming soon... Captain America 65th Anniversary Special!
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

Last edited by Col_Fury on 28 Sep 2006 10:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 22 Sep 2006 03:39 pm    
By Col_Fury

I found a copy of She-Hulk 53, and yes, that's Bucky's ghost/spirit/whatever. 

In the issue, She-Hulk has died and gone to the afterlife, or rather a place inbetween the good & bad versions of the afterlife, a bridge between the two, which looks like a mall where the dead can shop. She's given a tour of the place by Bucky, and they're attacked by the Green Goblin.(he identifies himself as the original) 

It looks like there have already been adjustments made to this issue, because the original Green Goblin was dead at the time this issue came out, but it was revealed later that he was never dead in the first place. It's now credited to Harry with a (?). Also, the Kangaroo isn't listed... 
and Death isn't listed either. 

Obviously, Bucky wasn't dead at this time, either. He was in stasis, in storage somewhere in Russia, and amnesiac. 

So, how do we address this issue now? 

1. She-Hulk actually did go to the afterlife. 

2. She-Hulk didn't actually go to the afterlife, but she did go to a 'version' of the afterlife that made sense to her, and she saw people she 'knew' to be dead at the time.(like Norman Osborn & Bucky) Meaning, these aren't actual appearances by anyone but her. 

Option 1 requires more explanations of how this is or isn't Bucky, Kangaroo, Green Goblin, or whoever else turns up alive down the road, where option 2 only requires one explanation. She-Hulk didn't meet any spirits, she only thought she did. 

Any thoughts?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

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Posted: 22 Sep 2006 06:29 pm    
By Enda80

It would be great if we could chalk this up to a hallucination Walters had due to having seen Dawn of the Dead, but, well, the trick ending from The Frost Giant's Daughter, NOES (Krueger) and Captain America's Weird Tales#74 comes up; she awakens with a memento from her astral trip, showing it as more than just a dream. 

http://www.leaderslair.com/she-hulk/she-hulkv2-54.html 

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/ewalters.htm 

I see Jean Dewolf, the Ringer, Bucky, Whizzer,(mongoose power derived one), Titania, Mimic, Firebrand, Miracle Man, Nighthawk, Kangaroo, Melter, Letha, Green Goblin, The Fly, Mirage, and stores for Egghead and Kraven. 

Perhaps it was Bart Hamilton, but he dissembled and claimed the identity of the original Green Goblin to intimidate She-Hulk, not realizing that such a claim would have no meaning since Norman Osborn's identity as the original Green Goblin had not gotten revealed to the public yet! Those megalomaniacs sometimes just enjoy hearing themselves talk.

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Posted: 22 Sep 2006 09:18 pm    
By Col_Fury

Quote: 
>>>
Those megalomaniacs sometimes just enjoy hearing themselves talk. 
<<<

Yes. Sometimes they do... 

Green Goblin isn't the issue here, it's Bucky. Besides, this appearance is already tentatively credited to Harry. 

So you're saying that when Jen 'woke up' from the Postmortem Mall she brought back a souvenir, so therefore it wasn't a dream. In that case, how do we handle Bucky? Just delete his entry and assume it's some fanboy kid dressed up as Bucky? Or Jen imagined a guide for herself and everyone else is actually there? Or just delete it and don't worry about it?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

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Posted: 23 Sep 2006 01:58 am    
By JLH

Maybe it was Fred Davis, who was very briefly visiting the afterlife after slipping in his shower? Course, you apply that kind of logic, it might as well be Bucky himself, briefly dying from his storage tank getting turned off for an hour by some Russian cleaning woman unplugging it to run a vacuum.

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Posted: 23 Sep 2006 06:11 am    
By Frederic Krier

Isn't Fred Davis still alive and active with the V-Batallion?

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Thread 28

Posted: 23 Sep 2006 05:24 pm    Post subject: Marvel Fanfare 32/1
By metaldragon

M/FAN 32/1 

Published: May, 1987 

Written by: J. M. DeMatteis & Kerry Gammill 
Drawn By: Kerry Gammill 

Appearances: 
Captain America 
Frog-Man II/Eugene Patilio 
The Yellow Claw/Tzing Jao/Bhagwan Sri Ananda 
Hop Sung (lackey of Yellow Claw) 
Vincent Patilio (formerly Leap-Frog) 
Spider-Man 
Sri Ananda (maybe ghost?) 
Human Torch 
Angel 
Beast 
Iceman 

Brief Synopsis: 
Yellow Claw captures Captain America and Frog-Man (continues directly on from M/FAN 31). He flashes back to A 206, relates events from then leading up to M/FAN 31, and then tells them of his vision of destroying New York City. 

Captain America wakes up in prison cell and meets an old man who helps him recover from the drugs Hop Sung injected him with and gives Cap his shield so he can escape. Old man disappears and Captain America wonders if he was real or an after-effect of the drugs. 

Frog-Man wakes up to find himself ditched on isolated beach (seen as no threat by Yellow Claw) where he meets giant mutant frogs. 

Crowd of followers seeking enlightenment gather and Yellow Claw, disguised as Sri Ananda uses mind-amplification helmet to absorb their mental energies. Captain America attacks but Yellow Claw grabs him with giant psionic hand. 

Frog-Man and giant frogs leap into battle to help. Unseen by Frog-Man, Spider-Man arrives with Human Torch, Angel, Beast, and Iceman and they join the battle too. They manage to subdue Yellow Claws henchmen and Cap destroys helmet before Yellow Claw can use it to destroy New York City but The Yellow Claw manages to escape before the Feds arrive to wrap things up. 

In his apartment, Captain America reads newspaper article about the real Sri Ananda and recognises him as the old man who helped him in the Yellow Claws cell and wonders if he was actually real (and really ancient) or maybe a ghost. 


References: 
This story follows directly on from M/FAN 31 and some time after A 206. 

Captain America was last in M/FAN 31 and should be appearing in these two issues sometime just before A@ 15/WCA@ 1 (Compare Beast, Thor, and Iron Mans chronologies for where that has been placed.  ) If Thor's chronology is correct, it places WCA@ 1 right before the Massacre (which makes a tight scedule for X-Factor). Cross-reference with the members of Freedom Force (they appear alongside Beast in XF 8-9, and Beast, Cap, Iron Man and Thor in WCA@1... erm... are Freedom Force's chronologies here correct?) to see how tight. [This means WCA@ 1's placement in Beast's chronology is currently incorrect. His brief appearance there has to go between pannels in XF 9. Only spot it will fit according Thor's Chronology.] Cap also appears alongside Human Torch in A 266, BTS alongside Angel in E2 8, and alongside Spider-Man in PM&IF 125 which all take place before those two Annuals in Cap's chronology. Obviously M/FAN 31 & M/FAN 32/1's current placement after MEPHV. 4 is incorrect. (They have to take place sometime before the MEPHV. mini series of course because that takes place after the Mutant Massacre.) 

Angel, Beast, and Iceman last appeared in ASM 282 and next appear in XF 8. They can only appear here after ASM 282 (Iceman gives Spider-Man a contact number if he ever needs them) and, at the latest, during the early part of XF 8 because XF 8 leads directly into the Mutant Massacre where Angels wings are mutilated by Harpoon & Blockbuster and later amputated (just after MEPHV. 2 in XF 14). This means it must be placed before the Mutant Massacre in all other related chronologies. The current placement in Angel, Beast, and Iceman's chronologies is correct. 

The Human Torch must appear here sometime after his appearance alongside Captain America in A 266 and before his appearance alongside Franklin Richards in PP 28. (PP 27 was the Mutant Massacre issue. Franklin appeared alongside X-Factor, Thor, etc. there.) Its current placement in Torch's chronology (right before MEPHV. 1) is incorrect because Angel has been in the hospital since the Massacre and is about to get his wings amputated at that point and Angel appears in MEPHV. 2 between Torch's appearances there. 

Spider-Man appears alonside X-Factor in ASM 282 (where Iceman gives him their contact number) before M/FAN 32/1. Spider-Man next appears alongside Human Torch in FF 299. M/FAN 32/1 is currently placed a number of issues after FF 299 in Spider-Mans chronology (FF 299 takes place after MEPHV. 3 for Human Torch!). This is obviously incorrect. M/FAN 32/1 probably belongs somewhere very soon after ASM 282 if not immediately. 

Someone more knowledgeable can check if the other chronologies (Frog-Man II, Leap-Frog, Yellow Claw, etc.) are incorrect.
_________________
"May the Light shine forever!"

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Thread 29

Posted: 05 Sep 2006 05:38 pm    Post subject: Torch & Ben Reilly vs. Paibok & multi-colored symbio
By RLG

In the latest handbook (#8), Paibok's entry mentions a brief team-up with the multi-colored symbiotes in a battle against the Human Torch and Spider-Man (Ben Reilly). Does anyone know when this occurred? I'm pulling my hair out on this one! 

RLG

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Posted: 05 Sep 2006 05:58 pm    
By ShadZ

Spider-Man/Human Torch #5 (2005) 

Answer thanks to the All-New OHotMU A-Z Bibliography at http://www.marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Bibliography-Contents
_________________
ShadZ

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Posted: 05 Sep 2006 06:18 pm    
By Somebody

Don't get excited, it's two panels, dialogue-only, which serve only to dismiss the whole of the 90s (but especially the Spider-Ben time).

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Posted: 05 Sep 2006 07:58 pm    
By RLG

Thanks for your help ShadZ, really appreciate it! I wasn't aware of that web-site. 

Somebody, thank you for the heads-up on the "dialogue only" description. It keeps me from hunting down the issue in question. 

RLG

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Posted: 05 Sep 2006 11:21 pm    
By JLH

Major problem with that, is the "Multi-colored symbiotes" were all merged into Hybrid as a result of 'Planet of the Symbiotes'. That was when Ben was the Scarlet Spider. It's possible there were other symbiotes left over from it that he's referring to, that showed up during Ben's Spider-Man run (since a few leftovers were seen in "Venom: The Hunger" or one of them), but it is odd that Dan Slott, normally so on the ball about continuity referenced something that never happened.

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Posted: 06 Sep 2006 04:28 am    
By Somebody

JLH wrote: 
>>>
...but it is odd that Dan Slott, normally so on the ball about continuity referenced something that never happened. 
<<<

Like I say, dismissive. He references about five never-happened things which get thrown away as "Clone... Clone... Clone... Clone... let's ignore that whole period, huh?" (while ignoring Torch and Ben's actual meetings, including the one where the clone subject was broached...)

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Thread 30

Posted: 29 Sep 2006 01:07 pm    Post subject: Chronology Mapping Software?
By Belacaleb

I seem to remember at one time someone here posting a link to a site with a typre of chronology mapping software...does anyone remember/know what I'm talking about?
_________________
Caleb Monroe - Writer 
CalebSpace

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Posted: 29 Sep 2006 01:24 pm    
By JD

The Marvel ChronologyGraph, maybe ? 
http://www.chronologygraph.com/

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Posted: 29 Sep 2006 03:02 pm    
By Belacaleb

That's the one! Thanks, JD
_________________
Caleb Monroe - Writer 
CalebSpace
