	Marvel Universe Forum
1. On Death's Heads
2. Mac Gargan and Secret War
3. X-Men: True Friends
4. Oddity
5. Mistake in the Rhino's entry
6. Infinity Gems Chronology?
7. Adam Warlock
8. Elliott Ness
9. Watcher in 101 Ways to End the Clone Saga
10. CA 139-FB
11. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes canon?
12. Wolverine chronology question - circa W2 130
13. Ringmaster correction
14. Fallen Son vs. New Avengers
15. Chronology questions about Surfer, Punisher, Iron Man
16. new entries from TOS, IM and IM3
17. Rogue's Chronology
18. Back in Black...since when?
19. Earth's Mightiest Heroes II
20. Agents of Atlas/Temple of Atlas
21. Police Commissioners
22. Earth's Mightiest Heroes #8?

	Issue Analysis Forum
23. Gun Runner (1993-4 Marvel UK)
24. Supersoldiers (1993 Marvel UK)
25. Spider-Man: Fear Itself GN
26. Spider-Man: Spirits of the Earth HC
27. Web of Spider-Man Annual #10
28. I (heart) Marvel (one-shots)
29. April call for analyses
30. Various Death's Head and related comics
31. Chronology review for DD2 #89-93
32. Nightwatch 1-12
33. Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos 51-61
34. Chronology Review for DD2 #94
35. Blackwulf 1-10
36. Irredeemable Ant-Man #1-6
37. Runaways Saga
38. The New Avengers: AAFES giveaway #4
39. Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos 63-73
40. Druid 1-4
41. Last call for Civil War-era analyses
42. Thor Corps 1-4 & Thor 474
43. Cable & Deadpool #19 -- the flashbacks!
44. ClanDestine 1-8
45. The Awesome Slapstick! #1-4
46. Sgt. Fury 75-79, 81, 83, 84, 86, 88, 90, 92
47. Marvel Age Annual #4 & Damage Control!

	Bug Reports Forum
48. Duplicate listings

	Chat Forum
49. Coming from Marvel in July.
50. Rutland Halloween with Thor/Beast/Defenders/JLA









Thread 1

Posted: 31 Mar 2007 04:46 pm    Post subject: On Death's Heads
By Dhall

There are several characters named Death's Head in the Marvel Universe. 

The first one, Karen Page's father Paxton, is not listed at all, and needs to be added to the MCP. 

**Death's Head/Paxton Page 
DD 56 
DD 57 

Then there is the MUK character Death's Head (the Freelance Peacekeeping Agent) 

The Minion robot (who killed the original DH) went by the alias Death's Head II, but that name really only refers to one of Minion's personalities, and the character should probably be listed as Minion/Death's Head II 


There is this one that I found on the MCP: 
DEATH'S HEAD 
NF3 1 
NF3 2 
NF3 3 
NF3 4 
NF3 5 
NF3 6 
This character should thus be either Death's Head III or IV depending on how Minion is listed. 

There was also a Death's Head 3.0 I believe, in Amazing Fantasy. 

Does anyone know of any other Death's Heads that I'm leaving out? 

Dave H

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Posted: 31 Mar 2007 05:06 pm    
By Somebody

Yeah and no - there's a whole bunch of Death's Head robots, based on the DH3.0 design in Planet Hulk. None of them, however, are individual characters, and they're essentially non-sentient. 

Death's Head "3.0" (not called that in-story, just "Death's Head") isn't a significant worry since it's alt-future (a combination of (it's being hinted) one of the Planet Hulk DHs with a Uni-Power [as in Captain Universe] clone known as the "Uni-Alias" that gives it sentience.) 

MCP listing for the MarvelUK DHs are a problem though, surely given the distinguish-by-Roman-numerals system the MCP uses for same-name-different-character situations. Even if you put the listing for DHII under "Minion/Death's Head II", you're still going to need a "Death's Head II - see Minion" listing since the cyborg had two series calling him by that name. And to make matters worse, Death's Head "1.0", the Freelance Peacekeeping Agent that bugged the Transformers, Doctor & F4, will be listed AS "Death's Head II", when it's another guy that people would look for with the title "Death's Head II", as opposed to '"Death's Head" II'.

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Posted: 31 Mar 2007 05:34 pm    
By Dhall

Quote: 
>>>
MCP listing for the Marvel UK DHs are a problem though, surely given the distinguish-by-Roman-numerals system the MCP uses for same-name-different-character situations. 
<<<

Yup, that's why I want to have the discussion now, rather than later, when I'm posting listings..... 

We're going to have to modify the system for Death's Head. Does anyone have any good ideas how we should do this?

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Posted: 31 Mar 2007 08:25 pm    
By SeanCurtin

All of the Death's Head cyborgs come from future timelines, so they could be listed as DEATH'S HEAD | WHATEVER TIMELINE, e.g. 

DEATH'S HEAD (FREELANCE PEACEKEEPING AGENT) | 8162 A.D. 

and 

DEATH'S HEAD/MINION/"DEATH'S HEAD II"/"HOOD" | 2020 A.D. 

Death's Head II was very rarely called "Death's Head II" in the context of a story; usually it was Death's Head, or rarely Minion. 

Even if the characters are listed in I-IV order, the SHIELD Death's Head would still be DEATH'S HEAD II, since he's a modern-era character and the other two don't chronologically exist for decades. The only way to give the characters I-IV numbering without completely reworking the MCP's character numbering system would be to add a "see also" note under the entry for the character listed under DEATH'S HEAD II (which should probably be done even if the MCP uses the "2020 A.D." suggestion). That, or list Minion as DEATH'S HEAD II II.

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Posted: 31 Mar 2007 08:29 pm    
By Somebody

Death's Head (FPA) wasn't native to 8162 - that was where the Doctor randomly dumped him after the Tardis hit him in the timestream (which itself led on from a Transformers UK story). I forget where & when he originally came from, but I'm fairly certain it was indeed not the Marvel Universe, and think it probably wasn't (any) Earth. I'm not sure if he's from the/a future or not... 

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
Even if the characters are listed in I-IV order, the SHIELD Death's Head would still be DEATH'S HEAD II, since he's a modern-era character and the other two don't chronologically exist for decades.  
<<<

Doesn't the MCP always use publication order for Roman numbering? You seem to be suggesting that they get ordered according to when they were born/made... 


SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
The only way to give the characters I-IV numbering without completely reworking the MCP's character numbering system would be to add a "see also" note under the entry for the character listed under DEATH'S HEAD II (which should probably be done even if the MCP uses the "2020 A.D." suggestion). 
<<<

Isn't "See also XXX" under a name for more directly-related situations, like the M-twins and the Ghost Riders, rather than for straight name-confusion?

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Posted: 31 Mar 2007 08:37 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Doesn't the MCP always use publication order for Roman numbering? You seem to be suggesting that they get ordered according to when they were born/made... 
<<<

It's done chronologically. Check out all the Black Knight's. 


watching: fox news 6

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Posted: 31 Mar 2007 09:03 pm    
By Dhall

Death's Head's place of birth was the Planet Styrakos. I'm pretty sure the year of his creation was never disclosed. 

Can we just list them without numbers? Do they have to have roman numerals, if the roman numerals would cause more confusion than they would solve? 

say perhaps: 

DEATH'S HEAD (FREELANCE PEACEKEEPING AGENT) 
and 
DEATH'S HEAD/MINION/"DEATH'S HEAD II"/"HOOD"

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Posted: 01 Apr 2007 08:33 am    
By Nathan P. Mahney

I thought the Daredevil villains was named "Death's-Head" (with the hyphen) but I could be wrong.
_________________
- Nathan P. Mahney -

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Posted: 01 Apr 2007 09:34 am    
By Dhall

You are correct.

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Posted: 01 Apr 2007 03:08 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Death's Head (FPA) wasn't native to 8162 - that was where the Doctor randomly dumped him after the Tardis hit him in the timestream (which itself led on from a Transformers UK story). I forget where & when he originally came from, but I'm fairly certain it was indeed not the DC Universe, and think it probably wasn't (any) Earth. I'm not sure if he's from the/a future or not... 
<<<

Death's Head originates from Styrakos, but I was under the impression that that was a dimension similar to the Dark Dimension rather than a distinct timeline. The framing sequence in The Incomplete Death's Head #1 strongly suggests that Death's Head originates in the 8162 timeline, which makes sense in retrospect, given that the origin story reprinted in Death's Head: The Body in Question doesn't have any reference to Death's Head being gigantic or from a different time than 8162. 

Death's Head's early chronology boils down to this: 
* Strip #19-20-FB (origin on Styrakos) 
* dialogue references in Strip #19-20 and Incomplete Death's Head #1 (Death's Head is stolen by unknown parties, sent to the robot planet Scarvix) 
* "High Noon Tex" strip (first appearance; Death's Head kills another robot) 
* Death's Head #1-FB (set in the same world as the main story in Death's Head #1, which follows directly from Dragon's Claws #4-5) 
* Incomplete Death's Head #1-FB (the Doctor transports him to the Transformers UK timeline and makes him Transformer-sized) 
* Transformers UK #133-151 (Death's Head vs Autobots, Unicron) 
* Dr. Who #135 (outside of time, shrunk down to normal size and sent to 8162 AD) 
* Dragon's Claws #4-5, Death's Head #1, etc. (in 8162 AD, fights the Dragon's Claws, is destroyed and rebuilt) 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Isn't "See also XXX" under a name for more directly-related situations, like the M-twins and the Ghost Riders, rather than for straight name-confusion? 
<<<

I think that someone looking for the Minion cyborg would first look for him under "DEATH'S HEAD II".

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Posted: 01 Apr 2007 05:29 pm    
By Enda80

Incomplete Death's Head#12 has the Doctor from Gallifrey claim that he apprehended Death's Head and dumped "him" into the Transformer's universe, so perhaps it was not so random that he sent Death's Head later to 8162.

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Posted: 01 Apr 2007 07:05 pm    
By Somebody

If he did, it must have been a time-loop thing, where events occurred in reverse order for the Doctor [I presume it was the Seventh Doctor in the latter case as well, yes?], given the way he reacted in DWM135.

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Thread 2

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 03:50 pm    Post subject: Mac Gargan and Secret War
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I can't recall that anyone has brought this up before, but I'm trying to piece together the latest calendar update and encountered a problem with Mac Gargan being in SECRET WAR. 

Im coming to the conclusion that the male Scorpion seen in SECRET WAR is not Mac Gargan, despite the SHIELD file in SECWAR 4 that identifies Scorpion as Gargan. (Maybe the file was out-of-date.) 

Follow this sequence... 

M/KS-M 1-6  May Parker kidnaped and missing 
M/KS-M 7-9  May still missing, Spidey has mechanical web-shooters, Venom symbiote bonds with Mac Gargan 
M/KS-M 10-12  May recovered, Gargans Scorpion suit auctioned off 
PPTSS2 19-20  May present, Fury is SHIELD director, Spidey gets organic web-shooters 
TB2 3  Spidey has organic web-shooters 
TB2 6  Strucker here before Enemy of the State 
W3 20-31  Enemy of the State/Wolverine Agent of SHIELD, Fury is SHIELD director 
SECWAR 1-5  End of Fury as SHIELD director; a male Scorpion seen here 

It appears that the Scorpion who appears in SECWAR is the unknown winner of the auction from M/KS-M 12. By the time of SECWAR, Gargan has been Venom for a while. 

At this same time, Thasanee Rappaccini has been appearing as a new Scorpion, but not by virtue of Gargans Scorpion costume. Has Gargans costume shown up elsewhere?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 01 Apr 2007 10:57 pm    
By Col_Fury

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Has Gargans costume shown up elsewhere? 
<<<

Not that I can recall.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Thread 3

Posted: 05 Apr 2007 05:41 am    Post subject: X-Men: True Friends
By Lucifer

I've just re-read this limited series and wondered where Wolverine's appereances fit in. 

The story features Shadowcat and Rachel travelling back in time to 1936. They prevent a nazi plot involving the Shadow King, with the help of Wolverine. They meet Wolverine again in the present. 

I was surprised to find Wolverine's appearence in the past was placed after the Weapon X story from M/CP. It's essential to the plot that it happens in 1936. Which should be a very early Wolverine appereance. At least before UX 268 (team-up with captain america in 1941 madripoor). 

It might have been placed so late because Wolverine actually calls himself Wolverine and uses his claws. 
But his claws have been established to not be added by Weapon X right? 

Also in the present day Wolverine meets Kitty and Rachel. But wasn't Wolverine pretending to be dead after Fall of the Mutants? When did Shadowcat and Rachel found out the X-Men where still alive? 
Also when pretending to be dead it is not smart to go meet Queen Elisabeth (also featured in the past en present part of the stories). 

Was does anyone else think?

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Posted: 05 Apr 2007 10:29 am    
By jephyork
Director

I think we had a long thread about this a while ago, and determined that it *was* 1936-Wolvie, those *were* bone claws, and the present-day stuff *should* go after Excalibur #41, where the team discovers that the X-Men are alive after all. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 05 Apr 2007 11:27 am    
By Lucifer

Thanks Jeph. 

And sorry for bringing it up again. Guess I'd better use the search option before I make a new thread...

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Posted: 05 Apr 2007 11:48 am    
By jephyork
Director

Oh, no, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was annoyed that you brought it up. I just wanted to head things off at the pass before your question spawned a second thread that lasted for days and rehashed all the old discussion points. Some people, last time around, were advocating that the Wolvie we saw in 1936 was also a time-traveller, and I *really* don't feel like disproving *that* idea all over again. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 05 Apr 2007 11:52 am    
By Lucifer

I didn't think you were annoyed at all and I really apreciate you're answer. 

I was just looking through the thread you mentioned and I thought to myself I should have looked that up before posting. 

Thanks again for your nice response. :wink:

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Thread 4

Posted: 06 Apr 2007 06:32 pm    Post subject: Oddity
By Somebody

Just looking at the M page and this caught my eye - how come Abe Jenkins' listing is split as MACH-1 and MACH-2, but his MACH-3 appearances are under MACH-2? [His MACH-IV [yes, Roman numeral] appearances falling into the post-Reload/Disassembled gap]) 

And, separately, shouldn't MADAME MASQUE III be MASQUE II?

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Posted: 09 Apr 2007 10:34 am    
By Ocean Doot

What possible reason could you have for browsing through the M's, Somebody?

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Thread 5

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Mistake in the Rhino's entry
By Ocean Doot

Hey, was just perusing the site, and there's a mistake in the Rhino's entry. It claims he was in H2 340-FB (just before Amazing Spider-Man 319). 

This is an error. Rhino is not in a flashback in Hulk issue 340, but he IS in a flashback in Hulk issue 378. The flashback takes place CIRCA Hulk #340, which is perhaps where the confusion came in. 

In any case, "H2 340-FB" should be replaced with "H2 378-FB" in the Rhino's entry.

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Thread 6

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Infinity Gems Chronology?
By republican22203

Hey im looking for a chronology of the appearances of the infinity gems. I was wondering if anyone knows of one?

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Thread 7

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:57 pm    Post subject: Adam Warlock
By Ethain

I've trying to complete my Adam Warlock collection (including Her/Kismet), and it's almost done, from Fantastic Four #66 to Thanos #6. All Adam Warlock apparitions in Marvel history, even out of continuity ones like a couple of What If (v2, 49 and 98), Earth X, Universe X and Paradise X, and the new collection will be set with all these too, it seems... 

Just a couple of questions: 
- Apart of What If v2 49 and 98 are there more apparitions of Warlock or Kismet? 
- The only thing left to complete my collection is all the Warlock apparitions in the Malibu's Ultraverse. It seems that there were more apparitions than the ones in the 7th Gem crossover, specially in Rune's series. Anyone can help me, please?

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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:46 pm    
By Ant-Man

Here are Adam Warlock's Ultraverse appearances that I know about... 

CURSE OF RUNE #4 (August 1995) 
RUNE Vol. 2 #1 (October 1995) 
RUNE Vol. 2 #2 (November 1995) 
RUNE Vol. 2 #3 (December 1995) 
RUNE Vol. 2 #6 (March 1996) 
RUNE Vol. 2 #7 (April 1996) 
RUNE: INFINITY (September 1995) 
ULTRAVERSE UNLIMITED #1 (June 1996)
_________________
PUM SPAK 
Justice is Served

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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:27 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Ethain wrote: 
>>>
Apart of What If v2 49 and 98 are there more apparitions of Warlock or Kismet? 
<<<

Warlock's in What If v2 #104, "What If The Impossible Man Had The Infinity Gauntlet?" 

-Sean

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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:05 am    
By Ethain

Sorry mistyped, it's not What if v2 98 it's 104 as you say. Thanks for the Ultraverse's Warlock run, now I can complete my collection. 

(I can't understand why the new series is out of continuity...)

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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:12 pm    
By John Simons

Ethain wrote: 
>>>
(I can't understand why the new series is out of continuity...) 
<<<

Have you read the first issue yet? 

http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/marvel/warlock1/cvrpage.html

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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:40 pm    
By Ethain

Yes, I've read it. But I'm not sure what to think about it...

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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:44 pm    
By Ant-Man

In case you didn't know, Adam Warlock is at Bonjaxx's party in Doctor Who Magazine #173 
(Page 29, Panel 5) 

I finally got my copy in the mail today!
_________________
PUM SPAK 
Justice is Served

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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:04 am    
By Ethain

Thanks for the info! That issue has been added as one more to the searching list. It was reedited in Incomplete Death's Head #12 (of 12) (Marvel UK), and coloured this time.

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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:15 am    
By Ethain

Incomplete Death's Head 12 found! Actually, I've seen there both Adam Warlock and Kismet. Thanks again, Ant-Man!

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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:40 am    
By Ethain

I need some help with Her/Kismet. I think I have some missing appearances of her, the last ones I have are these: 
- Cosmic Powers Unlimited 2 
- The End 5 (very tiny cameo) 

I'm missing something because: 
- I've found another new alias for Her/Kismet: Ayesha. 
- Ive found a gif (funny one, check http://users.cwnet.com/xephyr/MICROS/F4_Micros.html ), and Kismet appear with all her differents looks along her history, and one of them (with a kind od Medusa hair) is unknown for me. 
- I've found a profile that says that "Last seen in Genosha with the former scientists of the Enclave she has now taken the name Ayesha." 

When and where did this happen? 

Thank you again for your help!

Last edited by Ethain on Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:59 am    
By Ant-Man

Check out Fantastic Four vol 3 #10-12
_________________
PUM SPAK 
Justice is Served

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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:29 am    
By jephyork
Director

I've been looking for "Incomplete Death's Head" #11-12 for years now. Grr. 

::shakes fist at Ethain:: 

'Course, I'm also looking for 'em for $1 or less...  

-Jeph!

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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:37 pm    
By Ant-Man

How does $1.40 for #11 and $1.25 for #12 sound? 
That's how much Lone Star Comics has them for...I'll be happy to pick them up and send them your way if you want them. 

If I remember correctly, I still owe you one. You picked up some of the Marvel UK magazines with Captain Britain appearances for me a while ago.
_________________
PUM SPAK 
Justice is Served

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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:36 pm    
By jephyork
Director

...That was YOU?? 

::checks e-mail archives:: 

Yep, that was you. Man, that was over two years ago! Wow, how time flies. 

I appreciate the offer for the IDH comics -- tell you what, if I can't find them at next week's comic show, I'll let you know. 

By the way, I have spare copies of The Daredevils #7 and Hulk Weekly #56 available, if you're still looking... (Warning: HW #56 does *not* have a Black Knight/CB strip.) 

Thanks, Brian. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:46 am    
By Ethain

What would be the best way to find a good Infinity Gauntlet/War/Crusade crossover bibliography? I have found which issues are involved in those crossovers, but I don't know how to order them... I don't need a in-deep chronology, only to put some order in my comic collection.

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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:49 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

You can't put these books "in order," unless you're willing to cut the books up into individual pages and panels, since the story interweaves through the middles of dozens of books. If there's enough demand, I can post what I have of page and panel breakdown chronology. I know I have Infinity War, and the books from Crusade that have already been analyzed. Don't know offhand if I can dig up stuff from Infinity Gauntlet. But you say you're not interested in an in-depth chronology. 

If you're looking for an order to read the books, as I said, I don't think that's possible, or even applicable. 


watching: both sides

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:34 am    
By Ethain

I thought that 

WLOCK1 = Original Saga 
WLOCK2 = Limited 4 issues series 
WLOCK3 = Marvel Tech 
WLOCK4 = Current Series 

But I see that the Limited is WLOCK3 and the Marvel Tech series was WLOCK4, so I'n mot sure what WLOCK2 is. It's not in the Key list so it's in the gap, isn't it? Any info about what is that v2?

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:23 am    
By Ethain

Let me try to answer myself, is it possible that WLOCK is The Power of Warlock 1-8 and WLOCK2 is (simply) Warlock 9-15? Am I correct?

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:32 am    
By Jopili

Here: 
http://www.jopili.net/CercaUSA-specifico.asp?IssueTitle=Warlock&SeriesVolume=v2

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:57 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Vol. 2 is a six-issue reprint series. It's not in the key because there are no appearances to list in the Project. 


watching: american morning

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:57 am    
By Ethain

I see, then this: http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=list&title=94170927538&snumber=1 , is vol. 2... 

But, it's usually a reprint (with no new material except the covers) considered a vol.?

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:10 am    
By Jopili

Administrator wrote: 
>>>
Vol. 2 is a six-issue reprint series. It's not in the key because there are no appearances to list in the Project. 
<<<

What about the 1998 series...?

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:52 am    
By jephyork
Director

Here's what I have: 

vol.1: Power of Warlock / Warlock (1972-76) 
Warlock Special Edition (1983 one-shot) 
vol.2: Warlock (1992 6-issue series, reprints "Special Edition on Warlock" series that was itself reprints) 
vol.3: Warlock (1998 4-issue limited series) 
vol.4: Warlock (1999-2000 M-Tech series) 
vol.5: Warlock (2004-?, current series, non-canon) 

Did I miss anything? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:22 pm    
By Peter Fabricius

The 1983 series that I have is a 6 issues limited series.
_________________
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:57 pm    
By Jopili

So, crossing through several sources on the net: 

vol.1: Power of Warlock / Warlock (1972-76) 
Warlock Special Edition (aka "Special Edition on Warlock", 1982-83, 6-issue series, reprints vol.1) 
vol.2: Warlock (1992, 6-issue series, reprints "Warlock Special Edition") 
vol.3: Warlock (1998, 4-issue limited series) 
vol.4: Warlock (1999-2000, M-Tech series) 
vol.5: Warlock (2004-?, current series, non-canon) 

The one-shot listed by Jeph?

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:46 pm    
By jephyork
Director

According to the Unofficial Handbook, "Special Edition on warlock" is different from "Warlock Special Edition" -- but both collect some of the same material. 

"Special Edition on Warlock" #1, the first of six issues, was published in Dec. 1982. It collected Warlock stories from Strange Tales #178-180. 

"Warlock Special Edition" #1 -- a one-shot -- was published in Dec. 1983, and contained the same exact material as "Special Edition on Warlock" #1. 

And then in 1992, "Warlock" vol.2 #1-6 were published, which collected the same exact material as "Special Edition on Warlock" #1-6. 

Phew! 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:59 pm    
By Ant-Man

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
"Warlock Special Edition" #1 -- a one-shot -- was published in Dec. 1983, and contained the same exact material as "Special Edition on Warlock" #1. 
<<<

Has anyone ever come across this one-shot? 
I can't find evidence of it anywhere other than the Unofficial Handbook.
_________________
PUM SPAK 
Justice is Served

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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:22 am    
By Peter Fabricius

This is the only place I have heard of it. Could it be an error, Dec 1982 and Dec 1983. 
I checked the old Marvel Age book, that had listings of the coming books, and it doesn't appear in the listings for titles shipping from June to October 1983, those would have had cover dates Oct. 83 to Feb. 84. 
At least I couldn't find it.
_________________
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:05 am    
By Ethain

I've find one more Adam Warlock apperance, this time in Spectacular Spider-Man Annual about Evolutionari War (1988), in the 6-part history about High Evolutionary spread in all 11 annuals that year.

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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:12 am    
By Ethain

- Between wich issues of WIW should I place SS3 94? 

- I haven't UXM @12, and I don't know if Warlock appears in the episode of High Evolutionary history, anyone knows? 

- Has Adam Warlock appeared in any of the DC/Marvel crossovers, I've read most of them without success... 

- Any reference to Warlock in MC2 or 2099? 

- I have a Warlock cameo in Quasar 50 last page, the comic date is Sep. 93, and in that time there was Infinity Crusade, should I place Q 50 into the crossover chronology?

Last edited by Ethain on Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:52 am    
By SeanCurtin

Warlock's not in Uncanny X-Men Annual #12. 

Incidentally, does anyone know who the cloaked figure watching Magda in the backup story is? 

-Sean

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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:21 pm    
By Ethain

Ethain wrote: 
>>>
I repeat theses unanswered questions here, maybe some people didn't read them because they were in page 2... 
<<<

Don't do that, Ethain. 


watching: wolf blitzer

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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:49 pm    
By Enda80

Incidentally, does anyone know who the cloaked figure watching Magda in the backup story is? 

http://p089.ezboard.com/fuxnfrm13.showMessage?topicID=1165.topic 

I presume it is Chthon (same color cloak), who does appear in that story, too, but am throwing this out.

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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:05 pm    
By Ethain

Adam Warlock can be found also this month in She-Hulk #8. Just a little problem in that issue: Warlock dies (due to the injuries from #7), the coccoon appears and resurrects. Like always. The only problem is that according to some issue of Thanos #1-6 it was said that Warlock can't do that anymore... We-e-ell, Thanos was wrong?

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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:21 pm    
By Ant-Man

If I had to say that one writer was "wrong" over another, I would probably say that Jim Starlin has a little more credibility than Dan Slott with regard to Adam Warlock...
_________________
PUM SPAK 
Justice is Served

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Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:31 pm    
By Ethain

Double page flashback cameo of Adam in Avengers: Finale.

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:13 pm    
By Somebody

Ummm... why was the 4-issue Warlock series declared non-canon after one issue? There's a big revelation in #4 that explains why it wasn't consistant with the MU up until then, and you've got to bring 1-(most of) 4 in for Adam Warlock (BTS) and the new Warlock (who isn't the guy from the covers). Granted, it probably has to go before Claremont killed off most of the Enclave in F4, but that's different from being out-of-canon entirely.

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:15 pm    
By jephyork
Director

We're a bunch of hotheads, that's why.  I love when thought-non-canon books are brought into the MCP -- so can you share the revelation, and how it makes the book canon, with those of us who didn't read the rest of the series? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:39 pm    
By Somebody

#1-3 (and most of #4) are an Adam Warlock-induced hallucination in the head of the new "Warlock" (who's actually the female in #1, NOT the guy who looks vaguely like the real Adam). He found out about her, and, after his first instinct of killing her to avoid the Enclave getting a subversiant servant, decided to teach her a lesson to give her a chance of life (he could kill her anyway if it doesn't work), so he cooked up the scenario to avoid her turning out like the Warlock "born" at the end of #1. (read the book - trust me, W#4 reads a lot better than my summary) 

She's livid at AW (the real one) for all this, but then she wakes up for real (and she's a "Her", not a "Him" in reality, although she's got the same basic costume as the hallucination Warlock). We get a shot of the Enclave (and the real-life version of her boyfriend from #1, who's doing the job she did in the hallucination), she blows them off completely (and they mention suprising massive brain activity activity, to validate Warlock's hallucination), and heads out to do general superheroic things. 

Like I say, it's only Adam Warlock (onscreen in all issues, but only reveals himself AS Warlock in #4), the new Warlock (Who's never given an "in reality" name, unfortunately), and the Enclave (again, BTS in #1-3, onscreen #4 only) who need listings, but it's still in-canon from what I can see.

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:48 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Okay, so this new Warlock series must occur before FOUR 4 for the sake of the Enclave. The question remains: from Adam Warlock's perspective, does it occur before or after S-H3 7-8, and what's the evidence? Sounds like all four issues occur in one day. Any other temporal references?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:06 pm    
By Andy Holcombe

Not Four #4, but Fantastic Four (vol. 3) #4 (assuming the issue number is correct).

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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:22 am    
By Somebody

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Okay, so this new Warlock series must occur before FF3 4 for the sake of the Enclave. The question remains: from Adam Warlock's perspective, does it occur before or after S-H3 7-8, and what's the evidence? Sounds like all four issues occur in one day. Any other temporal references? 
<<<

No references, save the fact that Adam Warlock's in his first Starlin costume (the one from before his death-by-Thanos, which is indeed the same one from SH), and has the soul gem. If you're pushing it before FF3 #4 though, surely it has to be (a) before AW cocooned in the flashback from Infinity Abyss and (b) in the HR year (either shortly before the Spidey/Tbolts teamup issue or not that long after) for the Enclave's sake. 

And it's two days - the actual issues take one day ("incredible brain activity of the past 24 hours"), but AW sets it up the day before from the Enclave's comments about data uploads, if that makes any difference. Plus all the time it took the Enclave to set the base up in South America, etc

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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:50 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
(b) in the HR year (either shortly before the Spidey/Tbolts teamup issue or not that long after) for the Enclave's sake.  
<<<

That would be Spider-Man Team-Up #7. Why would WLOCK5 1-4 occur shortly before or not long after that issue? I'm not sure I follow.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:53 pm    
By Somebody

*rechecks SMTU7* Okay, I'm going with "shortly after SMTU7," for reference. 

Basically, you need a time lapse between SMTU7 and FF3 #3 to allow for the different methodologies - constructing the Crucible armour, developing mystic powers to turn people into gargolyes, that sort of thing. Warlock actually works quite well as an in-between in a sense, with them growing a new Her and having new Beehives in both it & F4 (maybe, instead of clearing out the building, they teleport the whole Beehive to Genosha), but with the characterisation being rather closer to SMTU7 in most other respects. 

I.E., I'm going for SMTU7, WLOCK5 1-3 - BTS, WLOCK5 4, FF3 3 (Crucible only) and so on. 

And, as I say, Adam Warlock's appearence has to be after he regains the Soul Gem, but before the "Two Years Ago" flashback in Infinity Abyss where he goes nuts and coccoons for two years.

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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:38 pm    
By jephyork
Director

I suppose I should point out here that the Enclave are the villains in SMTU #7. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:09 pm    
By Dhall

Quote: 
>>>
vol.1: Power of Warlock / Warlock (1972-76) 
Warlock Special Edition (aka "Special Edition on Warlock", 1982-83, 6-issue series, reprints vol.1) 
vol.2: Warlock (1992, 6-issue series, reprints "Warlock Special Edition") 
vol.3: Warlock (1998, 4-issue limited series) 
vol.4: Warlock (1999-2000, M-Tech series) 
vol.5: Warlock (2004-?, current series, non-canon)  
<<<

Getting back to this, the indicia on "Warlock Special Edition" 1-6 just say "Warlock Vol.1" so this should be Vol.2 

That would give us: 
vol.1: Power of Warlock / Warlock (1972-76) 
Vol.2 Warlock (called Special Edition on cover only)(1982-3) 1-6 reprints 
vol.3: Warlock (1992, 6-issue series, reprints v2 "Warlock Special Edition") 
vol.4: Warlock (1998, 4-issue limited series) 
vol.5: Warlock (1999-2000, M-Tech series) (features Warlock from New Mutants 
vol.6: Warlock (2004-?, current series)

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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:16 pm    
By Somebody

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
I suppose I should point out here that the Enclave are the villains in SMTU #7. 

-Jeph! 
<<<

*blinks* 

I really didn't mention that?! Sheesh.

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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:17 am    
By Ethain

Has Adam Warlock (or Her/Kismet, or Magus, or the Infinity Gems) been seen since his last apparition in Hulka limited? I try to keep an eye everywhere but...

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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:50 am    
By Ant-Man

-deleted because I was WRONG- 

I keep forgetting that the last Warlock series turned out to be canonical...I need to go pick it up...

Last edited by Ant-Man on Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:10 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:22 pm    
By Somebody

Warlock's last appearance in print was Warlock #4, as mentioned above. He's got the Soul Gem again, and is back in his pre-first death costume there and in She-Hulk. Before that, he appeared in Starlin's Infinity Abyss, Marvel: The End and Thanos, in that order. Starlin's arc in Thanos also brought the rest of the Infinity Gems back to the MU, and the Power Gem turned up in She-Hulk. Kismet's only appearance in the past few years was a crowd-scene cameo in Marvel: The End tho.

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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:26 am    
By Ethain

Thank you for your answer. I'm up-to-date, then, those are the last entries I have in my Adam Warlock Bibliography. It's almost impossible to keep it updated without help.

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Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:02 am    
By Ethain

Well, since there's no such thing as an Adam Warlock watch, I'm using this post for asking for some help, once a year, more or less. Have anyone seen Adam Warlock/Her/Magus/Godess around since the issues mentioned above? I'm trying to keep an eye everywhere, but it's easy to miss something. My latest foundings have been Her in OHOTMU Alternative Universes, and Adam Warlock in Forever Avengers last issue, I missed this last one. Any chances of Adam in Annhilation? If anyone have seen him/her aywhere, please, tell me.

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Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:54 am    
By Somebody

Warlock will NOT be in Annihilation, apparently - the only current major "Cosmic" character to be confirmed as NOT being in the event. 

http://www.comicboards.com/cmmb/view.php?rpl=060404160218

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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:40 am    
By Ethain

Hello again, 
I'm posting how I've classified my Adam Warlock collection. I'ts only part of it, beause here I haven't listed Warlock alternate universes apparitions, Magus, Godess or Her/Kismet/Ayesha listings either. I also include in my collection significative Soul Gems apparitions, as you can notice. I need to put lots of brackets more, specially in crossovers, I know. I began collecting Warlock on 1972, so it has been a quite while and lots of comics. Any addition, correction, suggestion, please tell me. I'd like to meet other Adam Warlock collectors, but, alas, it seems I'm alone in collecting universe... 

001.ORIGINAL SAGA 

001.[Fantastic Four v1 #066] 
002.Fantastic Four v1 #067 
003.The Incredible Hulk v2 Annual #006 FB 
004.Quasar #057 FB 
005.The Mighty Thor #163 
006.The Mighty Thor #164 
007.The Mighty Thor #165 
008.The Mighty Thor #166 
009.Marvel Premiere #001 
009a.Spectacular Spider-Man v1 Annual #008.4 FB 
010.Marvel Premiere #002 
011.Warlock v1 #001 
012.Warlock v1 #002 
013.Incredible Hulk v2 #158 
014.Warlock v1 #003 
015.Warlock v1 #004 
016.Warlock v1 #005 
017.Warlock v1 #006 
018.Warlock v1 #007 
019. Avengers v1 #118 (cameo) 
020.Warlock v1 #008 
021.The Incredible Hulk v2 #176 
022.The Incredible Hulk v2 #177 
022a.Spectacular Spider-Man v1 Annual #008.4 FB 
023.The Incredible Hulk v2 #178 
024.Strange Tales #178 
025.Strange Tales #179 
026.Strange Tales #180 
027.Strange Tales #181 
028.Warlock v1 #009 
029.Warlock v1 #010 
030.Warlock v1 #011 
031.Warlock v1 #012 
032.Warlock v1 #013 
033.Warlock v1 #014 
034.Warlock v1 #015 
035.Marvel Team-Up #055 
036.Marvel Two-In-One #062 FB 
036b.Spectacular Spider-Man v1 Annual #008.4 FB 
037.Avengers v1 Annual #007 
038.Marvel Two-In-One Annual #002 
039.The Incredible Hulk v2 #248 
039a.Avengers - Finale FB 
040.The Death of Captain Marvel FB 
041.Marvel Two-In-One #061 FB 
042.Marvel Two-In-One #062 FB 
043.Marvel Two-In-One #063 

002.INTERLUDE - ELDERS OF THE UNIVERSE 

[Silver Surfer v3 #003] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #004] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #005] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #006] 
Silver Surfer v3 #007 BTS FB 
[Silver Surfer v3 #008] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #009] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #010] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #015] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #016] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #017] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #018] 
[Silver Surfer v3 #019] 


003.INFINITY GAUNTLET 

001.[Thanos Quest #001] 
002.[Thanos Quest #002] 
003.[Silver Surfer v3 #044] 
004.[Silver Surfer v3 #045] 
005.Silver Surfer v3 #046 
006.Silver Surfer v3 #047 
007.Silver Surfer v3 #048 
008.[Silver Surfer v3 #049] 
009.Incredible Hulk v2 #383 
010.Silver Surfer #050 [cameo] 
011.Infinity Gauntlet #001 
012.[Dr Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #031] 
013.Quasar #026 
014.Quasar #027 
015.Infinity Gauntlet #002 
016.Warlock and the Infinity Watch #004 
017.Dr Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #032 
018.Infinity Gauntlet #003 
019.Silver Surfer v3 #052 
020.Silver Surfer v3 #053 
021.Silver Surfer v3 #054 
022.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #033 
023.Infinity Gauntlet #004 
024.Silver Surfer v3 #055 
025.Silver Surfer v3 #056 
026.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #034 
027.Silver Surfer v3 #057 
028.Silver Surfer v3 #058 
029.Incredible Hulk v2 #384 
030.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #035 
031.Infinity Gauntlet #005 
032.Silver Surfer v3 #059 
033.Sleepwalker #007 
034.Infinity Gauntlet #006 
035.Incredible Hulk v2 #385 
036.Silver Surfer v3 #060 
037.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #036 
038.Silver Surfer v3 #061 
039.Silver Surfer v3 #062 
040.Silver Surfer v3 #063 
041.Silver Surfer v3 #064 

004.INFINITY WATCH I 

Warlock and the Infinity Watch #001 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #002 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #003 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #004 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #005 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #006 

005.INFINITY WAR 

001.Infinity War #001 
002.Fantastic Four v1 #366 
003.Wonder Man #010 
004.Wonder Man #011 
005.Wonder Man #012 
006.Peter Parker, Spider-Man v1 #024 
007.Fantastic Four v1 #367 
008.Alpha Flight v1 #109 
009.Warlock and the Infinity Watch #007 
010.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #042 
011.Silver Surfer v3 #067 
012.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #043 
013.Deathlok #016 
014.Avengers v1 #350 
015.Alpha Flight v1 #110 
016.Marc Spector, Moon Knight #041 
017.Infinity War #002 
018.Silver Sable & The Wild Pack #004 
019.Wonder Man #013 
020.Infinity War #003 
021.Fantastic Four v1 #368 
022.Quasar #037 
023.Silver Surfer v3 #068 
024.Silver Surfer v3 #069 
025.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #044 
026.Silver Sable & The Wild Pack #005 [cameo] 
027.Guardians of the Galaxy #028 
028.Guardians of the Galaxy #029 
029.New Warriors v1 #027 
030.MCP 108-111 
031.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #045 
032.Alpha Flight v1 #111 [cameo] 
033.Guardians of the Galaxy #027 
034.Warlock and the Infinity Watch #008 
035.Quasar #038 
036.Infinity War #004 
037.Wonder Man #014 
038.Fantastic Four v1 #369 
039.Marc Spector, Moon Knight #042 
040.Marc Spector, Moon Knight #043 
041.Quasar #039 
042.Infinity War #005 
043.Alpha Flight v1 #112 
044.Sleepwalker #017 
045.Sleepwalker #018 
046.[Warlock and the Infinity Watch #009] 
047.Quasar #040 
048.Wonder Man #015 
049..Fantastic Four v1 #370 
050.Infinity War #006 
051.Warlock and the Infinity Watch #010 
052.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #046 
053.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #047 FB 
054.Marc Spector, Moon Knight #044 [cameo] 
055.Sleepwalker #019 
056.Guardians of the Galaxy #030 
057.Silver Surfer v3 #070 
058.Silver Surfer v3 #071 
059.Silver Surfer v3 #072 
060.Silver Surfer v3 #073 
061.Silver Surfer v3 #074 
062.Silver Surfer v3 #075 

006.INFINITY WATCH II 

Warlock and the Infinity Watch #011 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #012 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #013 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #014 
Warlock and the Infinity Watch #015 

007.SILVER SURFER & WARLOCK - RESURRECTION 

001.[Silver Surfer - Homecoming ] 
002.Silver Surfer & Warlock - Resurrection #001 
003.Silver Surfer & Warlock - Resurrection #002 
004.Silver Surfer & Warlock - Resurrection #003 
005.Silver Surfer & Warlock - Resurrection #004 

008.INFINITY WATCH III 

001.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #016 
002.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #017 
003.Quasar #050 
004.Quasar #053 

009.INFINITY CRUSADE 

001.Thor v1 #461 
002.Silver Surfer v3 #079 
003.Silver Surfer v3 #080 
004.Silver Surfer v3 #081 
005.Silver Surfer v3 #082 
006.Iron Man v1 #294.2 
007.Deathlok #027 
008.Thor v1 #462 
009.Thor v1 #463 
010.Alpha Flight v1 #122 
011.Infinity Crusade #001 
012.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #018 
013.Warlock Chronicles #001 
014.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #054 
015.West Coast Avengers #096 
016.Iron Man v1 #294.1 
017.Iron Man v1 #295 
018.Deathlok #028 
019.Thor v1 #464 
020.Marc Spector, Moon Knight v3 #057 
021.West Coast Avengers #097 
022.Infinity Crusade #002 
023.Web of Spider-Man v1 #104 
024.Alpha Flight v1 #123 
025.Alpha Flight v1 #124.1 
026.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #019 
027.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #055 
028.Web of Spider-Man v1 #105 
029.Infinity Crusade #003 
030.Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #056 
031.Warlock Chronicles #002 
032.Cage #017 
033.Warlock Chronicles #003 
034.Darkhawk #030 
035.Thor v1 #465 
036.Silver Sable & The Wild Pack #016 
037.Silver Sable & The Wild Pack #017 
038.Darkhawk #031 
039.Silver Surfer v3 #083 
040.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #020 
041.Infinity Crusade #004 
042.Silver Surfer v3 #084 
043.Warlock Chronicles #004 
044.[Warlock & The Infinity Watch #021] 
045.Thor v1 #466 
046.Silver Surfer v3 #085 
047.Infinity Crusade #005 
048.Web of Spider-Man v1 #106 
049.Warlock Chronicles #005 
050.Alpha Flight v1 #124.2 
051.Alpha Flight v1 #125 
052.Alpha Flight v1 #126 
053.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #022 
054.Alpha Flight v1 #127 
055.Infinity Crusade #006 
056.Deathlok #029 
057.Thor v1 #467 
058.Thor v1 Annual #018 
059.Marc Spector, Moon Knight v3 #058 
060.Marc Spector, Moon Knight #059 
061.Marc Spector, Moon Knight v3 #060 
062.Web of Spider-Man v1 #107 
063.Web of Spider-Man v1 #108 
064.Iron Man v1 #296 
065.Iron Man v1 #297 
066.Darkhawk #032 
067.Web of Spider-Man #109 

010.BLOOD AND THUNDER 

001.[The Mighty Thor #468] 
002.Silver Surfer #086 
003.Warlock Chronicles #006 
004.Quasar #054 
005.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #023 
006.The Mighty Thor #469 
007.Silver Surfer #087 
008.Warlock Chronicles #007 
009.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #024 
010.The Mighty Thor #470 
011.Silver Surfer #088 
012.Warlock Chronicles #008 
013.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #025 
014.The Mighty Thor #471 

011.INFINITY WATCH IV 

001.Starblast #001 
002.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #026 
003.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #027 
004.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #028 
005.Silver Surfer #094 
006.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #029 
007.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #030 
008.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #031 
009.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #032 
010.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #033 
011.Incredible Hulk v2 #418 (cameo) 
012.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #034 
013.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #035 
014.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #036 
015.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #037 
016.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #038 
017.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #039 
018.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #040 
019.Cosmic Powers Unlimited #01 
020.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #041 
021.Warlock & The Infinity Watch #042 

012.ULTRAVERSE - THE 7TH INFINITY GEM 

001.Rune vs Silversurfer #001 
002.Rune vs Silversurfer #002 
003.Necromantra - Lord Pumpkin #001 
004.Necromantra - Lord Pumpkin #002 
005.Necromantra - Lord Pumpkin #003 
006.Necromantra - Lord Pumpkin #004 
007.Hardcase #023 
008.Mantra #022 
009.Night Man #022 
010.Curse of Rune #001 
011.Curse of Rune #002 
012.Curse of Rune #003 
013.Curse of Rune #004 
014.Eliminator #000 
015.Eliminator #001 
016.Eliminator #002 
017.Eliminator #003 
018.UltraForce #008 
019.Ultraforce #009 
020.Ultraforce #010 
021.UltraForce & Avengers - Prelude 
022.Avengers & UltraForce #001 
023.UltraForce & Avengers #001 
024.Black September - Infinity 
025.Rune Infinity 
026.Rune v2 #001 
027.Rune v2 #002 
028.Rune v2 #003 
029.Rune v2 #006 
030.Rune v2 #007 
031.Ultraverse Unlimited #001 

013.WARLOCK V3 

Warlock v3 #001 
Warlock v3 #002 
Warlock v3 #003 
Warlock v3 #004 

014.INFINITY ABYSS 

Infinity Abyss #001 
Infinity Abyss #002 
Infinity Abyss #003 
Infinity Abyss #004 
Infinity Abyss #005 
Infinity Abyss #006 

015.THE END 

001.The End #001 
002.[The End #002] 
003.[The End #003] 
004.[The End #004] 
005.The End #005 
006.The End #006 

016.THANOS 

001.Thanos #001 
002.Thanos #002 
003.Thanos #003 
004.Thanos #004 
005.[Thanos #005] 
006.Thanos #006 

017.WARLOCK V5 

Warlock v5 #001 
Warlock v5 #002 
Warlock v5 #003 
Warlock v5 #004 

018.SHE-HULK 

001.She-Hulk v3 #007 
002.She-Hulk v3 #008 
003.[She-Hulk v3 #009] 
004.[She-Hulk v3 #010] 
005.[She-Hulk v3 #011] 
006.[She-Hulk v3 #012] 
007.[She-Hulk v4 #013 FB] 

[New Avengers - Illuminati #002] 
[Avengers - JLA] 
I'm not sure where to put these last two in the general chronology... Illuminati issue is post Thanos series, but how to place it in relation with the She-Hulk issues? Avengers - JLA seems to me to happen about Infinity Abyss time, but in IA there is not Hawkeye but Goliath, so I don't know when to place it...

			*	*	*

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:44 pm    
By Crazy Penguin

Were the Ultraverse crossovers ever referenced in the main Marvel universe Warlock-related titles?

			*	*	*

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:24 pm    
By republican22203

hey quick suggestion Starblast #01 should go probably before Quasar #54. Quasar #54 is part of the Starblast crossovers which continues right from Starblast #01. Warlock helps out in Starblast #01 but than in Quasar debates helping further or helping Thor. But Quasar #54 seems to fit perfect where you have it just with Starblast coming before it. Oh yeah also Cyberspace 3000 #06 - #08 should be added around Warlock & the Infinity Watch #11 - 15

			*	*	*

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:50 pm    
By republican22203

Also Atlantis Rising crossover is somewhat connected and possibly be added. But its not a strong connection so its whatever you think

			*	*	*

Thread 8

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:23 pm    Post subject: Elliott Ness
By Enda80

He was in a fb to Dutch Malone's past arresting him in ASM#200. Has he appeared elsewhere? Maybe some of the true crime comics Atlas published? Do we treat his appearance as having been sliding timescaled out?

			*	*	*

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:13 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
Do we treat his appearance as having been sliding timescaled out? 
<<<

We do not. 


watching: city confidential
_________________
 
New Accounts use Latveria as your Location when registering.

			*	*	*

Thread 9

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Watcher in 101 Ways to End the Clone Saga
By Enda80

The Watcher appears in the last two panels, showing that the preceding part of the story took place on another plane. This is listed as published in January 1997. Was the Watcher still watching other realms then?

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Thread 10

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:41 pm    Post subject: CA 139-FB
By Col_Fury

Dhall had pointed this out originally, but the subject has been locked. Thanks Dave! 

Paul B. did the research for me. Thanks Paul! 

Captain America #139-FB pg14pn4-pg15pn2 
Sgt. Duffy busts Private Rogers chops at Camp LeHigh. Later, Captain America and Bucky defeat some saboteurs. After they return to camp, Sgt. Duffy almost walks in on Steve in his Captain America uniform. 

I have this occuring in one day.(20 November, 1941 for anyone who cares) Steve acted like a sad sack in almost every appearance he had with Duffy... so that's not much to go on. However, this has to go at least after Bucky has completed his training. 

Here are some placement suggestions! 

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
... 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22/3 
*CA 139-FB 
CA 281-FB (11/22/41) 
... 

BUCKY/JAMES BUCHANAN BUCKY BARNES 
... 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22/3 
*CA 139-FB 
CA 281-FB (11/22/41) 
... 

DUFFY, SGT. MIKE 
... 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22/3 
*CA 139-FB 
CA 219-FB 
TOS 69/2 
...
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Thread 11

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes canon?
By Col_Fury

Elsewhere, Dhall asked: 
>>>
Would someone briefly explain what happened with Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes? Did it start out with a series of small problems, or were there some fairly jarring ones? What was the final nail in the coffin? 
<<<

When that mini ended, I told myself I would take the time to read through the originals along with it to answer that for myself. 

I never quite got around to it...  

So, what are the major quibbles with Earth's Mightiest Heroes? And if it can't work, what does that mean for it's volume II?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:44 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Rather than rehashing an old discussion, check out Thread 17 in the March 2005 archive.

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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:56 am    
By Dhall

hmmn...that thread ends without a conclusion, and references another thread, which isn't specified, and I'm having no luck finding. Does anyone know which thread that was?

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Thread 12

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Wolverine chronology question - circa W2 130
By electronicLad

I was doing some reading last night and found something a little jarring about the Wolverine chronology as listed. Short summary: 

UX 354 - xmen fight sauron 
UX 355 - Wolverine has Saruon in chains - alpha fligth attacks 
X 73-75 
W2 175/2-FB 
W2 123-130 (Wolv in Madripoor & Canada) 
X 76 
UX 356 - Wolverine has Sauron in chains waiting for shield to pick him up. 

Given that several days at least passed in the various Wolverine stories in between, it doesn't seem plausible that Lycos has been sitting in chains at the mansion while Wolverine was out doing his thing, or that the x-men would even keep him chained up so long. 

I guess my 'evidence' is pretty shaky when I type it out - it just seemed to me that UX356 took place very shortly after 355, and I wanted to see if this had been discussed here before?

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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:08 pm    
By Dhall

Good catch, this needs to be looked into.

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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:30 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I have UX 356 between UX 355 and X 73.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:10 pm    
By jephyork
Director

The Beast is in Alaska in UX #356-357, though, placing it after his appearance at the mansion in X #76. 

My notes for that period corroborate the MCP's -- in addition to X-Men #73-76, I actually have Wolverine #119-130 and Annual 1997 in-between #355-356. As well as X-Force #75-81. 

So it looks like Sauron just spent a heck of a long time chained up. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:12 pm    
By Dhall

Well if Xavier can keep his step-brother chained up between UX 13, and 32.........and the X-Men had Sabretooth chained up for who knows how long...so....not really a problem then.

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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:23 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks for the notes, Jeph. This is one of those time periods for which I need to go back and re-check my own notes.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:58 am    
By jephyork
Director

Paul, have I ever sent you, or posted, the notes I have on the X-books in this time period? I wrote a lengthy list with annotations covering X-Men #62-98 or thereabouts -- then I don't think I ever showed it to anyone. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:06 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I'm in the process of gathering information on/from '90s comics for an eventual calendar extension covering another few MU years back from the current posted calendar. Sounds like your notes would come in handy!
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 13

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:27 am    Post subject: Ringmaster correction
By Enda80

RINGMASTER/FRITZ TIBOLDT 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5 
XFOR -1 
**M/TIO 76-FB 

This is where he dies.

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Thread 14

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:31 am    Post subject: Fallen Son vs. New Avengers
By Kevin W.
Director

So how are we to resolve the different discoveries of Wolverine in "New Avengers #28" and "Fallen Son: Wolverine"? 

In "Fallen Son", Logan sees the dead body of Captain America, thus confirming he's dead. Iron Man lets Logan go so he can spread the news that Cap's really dead. 

In "New Avengers", Logan, (and the others) believe Cap to be alive, and run to his rescue, (though Logan's able to tell the body isn't really Cap). 

So would Logan and the others truly run to Cap's rescue in New Avengers if "Fallen Son: Wolverine" occurs first? Or would Logan still be holding out hope that Steve is still alive if New Avengers occurs first?
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:56 pm    '
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I have Fallen Son occurring right after the current arc in New Avengers. After being suckered by a false Cap, Logan still believes the real Cap is alive until his death is "proven" in Fallen Son.
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 15

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject: Chronology questions about Surfer, Punisher, Iron Man
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I'm in the home stretch of revised calendar compilation and would like clarification on a few things. 

I can actually work with the time markers shown throughout the various Annihilation books. However, this requires me to place Silver Surfer in H2 95 during the long span of time between Annihilation: Silver Surfer #4 and Annihilation #1. Does this make sense? 

Does anyone know where PUN7 37-42 and the current arc of PUN7 should go in relation to issues of PWJ2? 

How about placement of Iron Man: Hypervelocity in relation to other Iron Man appearances? I can't tell if he's director of SHIELD in this series or not.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:37 pm    
By Somebody

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
I can actually work with the time markers shown throughout the various Annihilation books. However, this requires me to place Silver Surfer in H2 95 during the long span of time between Annihilation: Silver Surfer #4 and Annihilation #1. Does this make sense? 
<<<

Absolutely not. As of A:SS #3, Surfer's Galactus' Herald again. And got a characterectomy in the process as shown in A:SS #4, Ann #5 and A:HoG #2. He's the same old Surfer in PH:Exile (plus, of course, the explicit "This takes place before Annihilation: Silver Surfer" on the Hulk issues). 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
How about placement of Iron Man: Hypervelocity in relation to other Iron Man appearances? I can't tell if he's director of SHIELD in this series or not. 
<<<

Per interviews, it's pre-Extremis. I'd put it before New Avengers #1. 

There's also a minor Livewires related issue - Warren mentioned that a couple of them would cameo in #3, and indeed they do. However, the artist drew the wrong one - instead of Gothic Lolita and Social Butterfly, he drew Gothlol and the unnamed brown-haired Livewire who was killed/deactivated/destroyed between Livewires #6-FB and Livewires #1. That may require moving Livewires forward (since the series is completely standalone, there's no issue with that. Plus, LW ends with GL in a probably-unfixable state [as with all bit Stem Cell & Hollowpoint Ninja] so the issue would still have been there anyway, but it would have been tighter).

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:26 pm    
By Col_Fury

I'd agree with Somebody that Hypervelocity goes before New Avengers #1... Nick Fury appears as the Director of SHIELD in Hypervelocity.(he's contacted while on a mission)
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:38 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Per interviews, it's pre-Extremis. I'd put it before New Avengers #1.  
<<<

Thanks, Somebody. 


Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Nick Fury appears as the Director of SHIELD in Hypervelocity. 
<<<

Ah, yes. I went back and noticed that "Dread Pirate Fury" is referred to as "Director of SHIELD" in a caption in issue #2. So that pushes this series back further, to a spot before SECWAR 1. Thanks for noticing that, Col. (Who else would be the first to point that out?) Isn't it refreshing to see a non-LMD Fury with SHIELD? (BTW, this week's She-Hulk was hilarious.) 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
There's also a minor Livewires related issue  
<<<

No problem. If this series goes before SECWAR 1, then it's before LW 1 on the calendar. 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Absolutely not. As of A:SS #3, Surfer's Galactus' Herald again. And got a characterectomy in the process as shown in A:SS #4, Ann #5 and A:HoG #2. He's the same old Surfer in PH:Exile (plus, of course, the explicit "This takes place before Annihilation: Silver Surfer" on the Hulk issues).  
<<<

Dang!! Back to the drawing board on Annihilation's calendar placement...
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:50 pm    
By Somebody

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Ah, yes. I went back and noticed that "Dread Pirate Fury" is referred to as "Director of SHIELD" in a caption in issue #2. So that pushes this series back further, to a spot before SECWAR 1.  
<<<

Wait.. Secret War **#1**?! I'm not saying it can't be - although if you push it before Disassembled, it needs to go back further to a point Stark's running his company rather than playing Iron Secretary - but can't it go during the OYL gap during Secret War?

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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:59 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Isn't Secret War #1 after the one-year gap you're referring to? I thought the "one year ago" stuff was all told in flashbacks ... so, pre-Secret War #1 would still be during the yearlong gap. 

By the way, this may or may not become an issue, as it's a chronology clue from a giveaway book, but: 

The latest New Avengers AAFES comic, "Letters Home", features Captain America working openly from Avengers Tower (so, pre-Civil War), and a Silver Surfer who is once again Galactus' herald. Can that work? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:12 pm    
By Somebody

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Isn't Secret War #1 after the one-year gap you're referring to? I thought the "one year ago" stuff was all told in flashbacks ... so, pre-Secret War #1 would still be during the yearlong gap. 
<<<

I... don't remember. Secret War's in my "never read again" pile, and I'm not even sure I finished it. If there's a flashforward framing sequence being referred to, ignore that comment. 


jephyork wrote: 
>>>
By the way, this may or may not become an issue, as it's a chronology clue from a giveaway book, but: 

The latest New Avengers AAFES comic, "Letters Home", features Captain America working openly from Avengers Tower (so, pre-Civil War), and a Silver Surfer who is once again Galactus' herald. Can that work? 
<<<

Strictly in terms of the Annihilation time-frame, there is enough time for that to work, since Surfer becomes Galactus' Herald around Annihilation Day + 21, and he and Galactus are captured around 180 days later. A lot would depend on how Surfer is "voiced", and I'm not entirely sure how things would line up. 

So, without any more details, "maybe."

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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:47 pm    
By Col_Fury

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Ah, yes. I went back and noticed that "Dread Pirate Fury" is referred to as "Director of SHIELD" in a caption in issue #2. So that pushes this series back further, to a spot before SECWAR 1. Thanks for noticing that, Col. (Who else would be the first to point that out?) Isn't it refreshing to see a non-LMD Fury with SHIELD? (BTW, this week's She-Hulk was hilarious.)  
<<<

Yup. By extension, it would be before Secret War's 'current day' bits. 

And yes, She-Hulk 17 was awesome!
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:19 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Jeph wrote: 
>>>
I thought the "one year ago" stuff was all told in flashbacks ... so, pre-Secret War #1 would still be during the yearlong gap. 
<<<

Yup. By SECWAR 1, I meant the "current day bit." The actual war would be SECWAR 1-FB. 


Jeph wrote: 
>>>
The latest New Avengers AAFES comic, "Letters Home", features Captain America working openly from Avengers Tower (so, pre-Civil War), and a Silver Surfer who is once again Galactus' herald. 
<<<

Ooh. Analysis...please?? 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Strictly in terms of the Annihilation time-frame, there is enough time for that to work, since Surfer becomes Galactus' Herald around Annihilation Day + 21, and he and Galactus are captured around 180 days later. A lot would depend on how Surfer is "voiced", and I'm not entirely sure how things would line up.  
<<<

Recalling Wendell's appearance in S-H4 7 while the Registration Act was coming up for a vote (shortly before Stamford), there is a small window there before CW 1 for the AAFES story, especially if the time markers in Annihilation are not Terran days, but rather some fraction thereof.
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 16

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: new entries from TOS, IM and IM3
By Arthur

I recently did series audits (TOS, IM and IM3) that focused on the listings already in the MCP. Here are some new candidates for inclusion from those books (minimal requirement - more than two issues or two non-consecutive issues) 


ADAIR, VAL (Renegade Shield agent) 
IM 117 
IM 118 
IM 119 

ANDERS, GRETL (Street person befriended by Tony) 
IM 178/2 
IM 179 
IM 180 
IM 181 
IM 182 

ANDERS, TIMOTHY (Gretl Anders baby) 
IM 182 
IM 199 
IM 200 

ARCTURUS (Rigelian Fleet Commander) 
IM 110 
IM 111 
IM 112 

AXONN-KARR (of Maklu-4 - source of Mandarin rings) 
TOS 62-FB-FB 
TOS 62-FB 
IM 57-FB 

BARNETT, PHILIP (empl of Justin Hammer) 
IM 120 
IM 124 
IM 126 

BLACK, MARTIN (asst to Dr Mallory) 
IM3 59 
IM3 60 
IM3 61 

BLISS, URANUS (sister of Mrs. Bambi Arbogast) 
IM 120 
IM 123 
IM 137 

BOYTON, SEN (US Senator) 
IM 216 
IM 229 
IM 230 
IM 231 

CHU, GRANDFATHER (grandfather of Soo Lin Chu) 
IM 130-FB (9:5/2  9:6) 
IM 130-FB (10:6) 
IM 130 
IM 242 

CHU, SOO LIN (SI Hong Kong tech) 
IM 130 
IM 242 

EHRMANN, DR. JOHN (Stark Internation Doctor) 
IM 137 
IM 140 
IM 141 

EZZARD, BOB (Tony Starks attach) 
IM3 80 
IM3 82 

FRUITBAGEL, MRS (Tony Starks housekeeper) 
IM 243-FB 
IM 244 
IM 249 

FUSSKEY, REGIS (millionaire) (spelled with one s 3 of 6 times in IM 177. Consistently spelled with a double s in IM 183 (6 times); 
IM 177 
IM 183 


GREER, MISS (Tony Starks secretary) 
IM 3-VO 
IM 4-VO 
IM 17 

HAWK, SEN. ANDREW JACKSON (US Senator) 
IM 95 
IM 96 
IM 97 
IM 99 
IM 100 

HELLHORSE 
TTA 52 
UTSM 13 *** I DO NOT HAVE THIS ISSUE, so could not confirm the appearance.. According to the MCP the Black Knight appears in it. Can someone confirm that he was on his flying black horse? 
A 6 
MARVELS 2 
TOS 59 
A 15 
A 16 
FF@ 3 
TOS 73 
AWC 61 
IM 102-FB 
IM101 
IM 102 
BK2 2 
AUP 4 
TM/U 1 *** I DO NOT HAVE THIS ISSUE, so could not confirm the appearance. According to the MCP the Dreadknight appears in it. Can someone confirm that he was on his flying black horse? 
ASMU 16 

HINDEL, BERTRAM (SE legal) 
IM 219 
IM 225 
IM 226 
IM 233 
IM 237 
IM 243 
IM 246 
IM 248 

JARR (of subatomic world BAST; 
IM 49-BTS Jarr and Tyrr brought Adaptoid to life in IM 49 (as per IM 50 10:4) 
IM 50 
IM 51 

KEY, HARRY (P.I.) 
IM 88 
IM 89 
IM 90 
IM 92 
IM 96 
IM 99 
IM 101 
IM 102 
IM 103 
IM 104 

KLEIN, ABRAHAM (SI exec) 
IM 105-FB (13:4, in concentration camp) 
IM 82 
IM 88 
IM 91 
IM 92 
IM 93 
IM 94 
IM 95 
IM 105 
IM 106 
IM 107 

KREBS, BRIG. GEN (US army). 
IM3 80 
IM3 81 
IM3 82 


KUON SET, CHIEF 
IM 71 
IM 73 

LOC DO (Lackey of Yellow Claw) 
IM 69 
IM 70 
IM 71 
IM 100-FB (10:6  10:8) 

MARCH, MARTY (brother of Iron Man III) 
IM 67 
IM 69 
IM 70 
IM 71 
IM 73 
IM 297 

MOUNTEBANK,SEN. CHAD (US senator) 
IM 117 
IM 142 

NUMBER FIVE/ROGER PHILLIPS (henchman of Spymaster) 
IM 33 
IM 34 
IM 35-FB-OP 
IM 35 
DD 73-FB (2:4) 

NUMBER FOUR/GODFRIED HERTER (henchman of Spymaster) 
IM 33 
IM 34 
IM 35-FB-OP 
IM 35 
DD 73-FB (2:4) 

NUMBER ONE/MARYA PENSKIYOV (henchman of Spymaster) 
IM 33 
IM 34 
IM 35-FB (3:5) 
DD 73-FB (2:4) 

NUMBER THREE/FARLEY LONDON (henchman of Spymaster) 
IM 33 
IM 34 
IM 35-FB (3:2) 
IM 35 
DD 73-FB (2:4) 

NUMBER TWO/SAMSON WASHINGTON (henchman of Spymaster) 
IM 33 
IM 34 
IM 35-FB-OP 
IM 35 
DD 73-FB-OP 


QUINT, GARRISON (head of security Tony Starks Pacific mansion/Stark Enterprises 
IM 222 
IM 223 
IM 233 
IM 235 
IM 244 
IM 249 

RAIDER-1 
IM 145 
IM 226 

RAIDER-2 
IM 145 
IM 226 

RAIDER-3 
IM 145 
IM 226 

RICH, JONATHAN (renegade aide to Sen Hawk) 
IM 95 
IM 96 
IM 97 
IM 99 
IM 100 

RICHLEN, BUCK (Renegade Shield agent) 
IM 117 
IM 118 
IM 119 

SCHWEIGER, ROB (archeologist) 
IM3 79 
IM3 81 
IM3 82 

SCROUNGER (Controllers helper) 
IM 88 
IM 89 
IM 90-FB (6:5) 
IM 90 
IM 91 


TYKKIO, YORGON (AIM scientist) 
IM 201 
IM 204 
IM 205 
IM 206 
IM 207 
IM 215 
IM 216 

TYRR (of subatomic world BAST; 
IM 49-BTS Jarr and Tyrr brought Adaptoid to life in IM 49 (as per IM 50 10:4) 
IM 50 
IM 51 

VAN TILBURG, ALEXANDER (Bethany Cabes husband) 
IM 128-FB (7:7  8:5) 
IM 152 
IM 153 
IM 207 
IM 208 
IM 211 

WATANADE, FUJIKO (daughter of Prof. Goro Watanade) 
IM 30 
IM 98 
IM 99 

WATANADE, PROF. GORO (Japanese scientist) 
IM 30 
IM 98 
IM 99 

WILLIAMS, MS. ATHA (SE staff) 
IM 215 
IM 216 
IM 217 
IM 219 
IM 220-VO 
IM 221 
IM 248

Last edited by Arthur on Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:33 am; edited 2 times in total

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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:31 pm    
By Col_Fury

Yes, Hellhorse appears in Untold Tales of Spider-Man 13. I couldn't tell you about Tales of the Marvel Universe 1, though.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Thread 17

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Rogue's Chronology
By RipStryken

I've been forever working on a chronology for Rogue, and the MCP has been a great help, it's filled in a few issues of appearances I've somehow missed along the way and put a few things in order that I didn't quite get. 

I've found a few appearances listed she's not in, as well as a few appearances missing, to bring up for discussion. 

Lets start with the listed appearances that she's not in. 
M/TU 135 (I know the Index to the X-men lists this, but she's no where to be seen) 
MK 35 (again Index lists her here, but she's clearly not) 
GAM3 0.5-FB (Assuming this is the Gambit 1/2 Wizard issue... no sign of her in a flashback) 


now missing issues: 
Dazzler 27 
Dazzler 29 
Rom 62 (Flashbacks to UNC 187-188) 
Uncanny 197 
X-Force 18 
X-Men 39 
X-Men 59 
X-Men Unlimited 18 
X-Men Unlimited 24 
X-Men: Liberators 4 
Phoenix Ressurection: Aftermath 
Spider-Man: Mutant Agenda 1 
Contest of Champions II 1, 4 ,5 


I'd love to get some feedback!

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:47 am    
By Dhall

Quote: 
Phoenix Ressurection: Aftermath  

Aftermath occurs in an alternate future. Are you sure you meant Aftermath? 

In Dazzler 27, Rogue only appears in a dream sequence. 
In Dazzler 29, Rogue only appears in a flashback explaining the events of issue 28. 
Rom 62 (Flashbacks to UNC 187-188) Nothing new in these flashbacks, this shouldn't get a listing. 
Uncanny X-Men 197, has Rogue as one of Arcade's robots. 
X-Men 39, only has Rogue as a mental construct in Legion's mind. 
X-Men 59, only has Rogue as an image on a computer screen. 
X-Men unlimited 18, has Rogue appearing in Gambit's mind, not in reality. 


None of these type of apps. would get listed in the MCP. 

I don't see Rogue in X-Force 18, where is she? 

Rogue appears in a flashback in X-Men Unlimited 24/2. Is this new material? If so, it should be added, if it's a previously seen event, then it wouldn't get a listing. Anyone know if this is new? 

The last scene in X:L 4 doesn't appear to be in the MCP. In it, Wolverine, Colossus, and Nightcrawler (who are listed for X:L 4) return to the mansion and are met by Xaviuer, Rogue, Storm, Marrow, Gambit, and Shadowcat. These characters should all be listed. 

This app. should go before XU 22 (which is between UX 361 and 362.) to be consistant with the listings already in the MCP. 

Good catch! 


I can't find Spider-Man: Mutant Agenda listed in the key. Has this series made it into the MCP yet? It was published in 1994, and needs to be added to the project, if it's not in already. 

Nothing in the key for Contest of Champions II yet either. I thought this one had been written up, is it not in the project yet?

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:31 am    
By Dhall

>>>
M/TU 135 (I know the Index to the X-men lists this, but she's no where to be seen) 
MK 35 (again Index lists her here, but she's clearly not) 
GAM3 0.5-FB (Assuming this is the Gambit 1/2 Wizard issue... no sign of her in a flashback) 
<<<

Rogue does not appear in M/TU 135, this should be removed from her listing. 
Nor is she in MK 35, this should be removed from her listing. 

GAM3 0.5-FB, not sure why she's listed here, she's not in the Gambit 1/2 Wizard issue, so this should also be removed. 

Good catches, all.

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:05 am    
By RipStryken

Thanks for the info! 

So flashbacks are only included if they contain new material? Works for me. 

I remember way back, Mutant Agenda was in the MCP, but at one point it was taken out. Anyone able to shed light on why? 

Ran across another one here, Rogue appears twice in a flashback?/memory in Marvel Fanfare 40 story 2. I assume this is not qualified for a listing? 

My bad on X-Force 18, issue, I mixed up on writing my lists of issues to check. 

I was wondering about Aftermath, as Phoenix Resurrection: Genesis and Revelations were listed. Looking back at Aftermath, Rogue's appearance is only in Foxfire's dream, so its not even a flashback. Scratch that one.

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:04 pm    
By Dhall

RipStryken, 
Welcome to the board. There is a section in the faq about which kind of appearance will make it into the project, and which ones won't.. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:47 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Spider-Man: Mutant Agenda is a direct crossover with the Spider-Man newspaper strip, which isn't canonical.

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:21 pm    
By RipStryken

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
Spider-Man: Mutant Agenda is a direct crossover with the Spider-Man newspaper strip, which isn't canonical. 
<<<

Ok, I found this thread: 
http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2385&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=mutant+agenda 

Here's a quote from that thread. 


jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Exactly. Mutant Agenda #1-3 tell the Earth-616 version of the story, and Mutant Agenda #0 (once it's filled) tells the Earth-Comicstrip version. 

I don't know of an online archive of the strips, but my copy of #0 is full...  

-Jeph! 
<<<


And another thread: 
>>>
http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1941&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=mutant+agenda 
<<<

Which would explain why there's a footnote on the first page referencing the story taking place before Amazing Spider-Man #385.

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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:51 pm    
By Dhall

Quote: 
>>>
Spider-Man: Mutant Agenda is a direct crossover with the Spider-Man newspaper strip, which isn't canonical. 
<<<

It's really not. It's just a 3 issue limited series, and an issue 0, which you use to paste in the comic strip version of the story, which isn't meant to be canonical. The limited series does not actually cross over with the comic strip in any way, and is meant to be canonical as far as I can tell.

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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:30 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Yep. The miniseries and the comic strip told two different variations of the same basic story during the same publishing timeframe. If you felt like it, you could cut out the comic-strip and paste it into the empty pages of #0. 

But there was *not* a "crossover" between the two formats. The story didn't start one place and then migrate to the other. It was begun and ended in the pages of the mini -- and the same basic story was also begun and ended in the comic strip. One story, told twice. 

No crossover, and no reason to think it might be non-canon. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:01 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

RipStryken wrote: 
>>>
So flashbacks are only included if they contain new material? Works for me. 
<<<

Correct, that's the policy - the MCP only lists scenes that contain original material. Otherwise, things like "Peter Parker getting bitten by a spider" would be overrun with thousands of flashback appearances.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Thread 18

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Back in Black...since when?
By Kevin W.
Director

Just curious: 

In the latest issue of Amazing Spider-Man, Peter notes, (when he picks up the black costume he had hidden on top of the building): 

"I put this here a long time ago. I got rid of it in the first place because I thought it sent the wrong message. Maybe I kept it because there might come a day when I'd WANT to send that message. That the rules don't apply anymore. That the gloves are off." 

So when was the last time Peter wore the black costume? How "long ago" was it? I remember Peter putting back on a black costume in a couple of issues of Todd McFarlane's "Spider-Man" back in the early 90's, but has he worn black since then? I just don't understand why Peter would keep a black costume around...
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001! 

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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:06 pm    
By Starman

He wore it in one issue of Amazing Spider-Man vol. 2, ASM2 19 after his bag containing, among other things, costume and web-shooters, were stolen in an earlier issue while he slept in an alley. (Why in an alley? Well, he had been thrown out of his apartment because of overdue rent, and were still too proud and stubborn to ask for help, so at that time he was homeless. He were the "Amazing Bag-Man" for a short while before putting on the black suit for an issue.) 

Also found this on Spider-Fan.org: 

Quote: 
>>>
In Spectacular Spider-Man #99, Felicia gives Peter a set of five cloth Black Costumes, and he wears the first one in Amazing #263. For the next couple of years, he alternates between the red and blues, and the black outfit. Different writers had their own preferences, and often he used the black at night, and the red and blues during the day. During a battle with the villain Magma (Web of Spider-Man #17-#18) Spidey's last remaining red-and-blue costume was destroyed. At that point Peter decided to forego the red-and-blue and wear only the black costume form now on. 

When Venom arrived on the scene, of course that created some confusion. Mary-Jane sorted the situation out, by pointing out that the Black costume reminded her of Venom, and insisting that Peter no longer wear it... and that was that - with Amazing #300 being the last time Peter wore it regularly. 

However, Peter did put on the black costume for a few special occasions after that (Spider-Man #13-#14, Moon Knight #32-#33, and Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 2 #19). The reason mostly being that it makes him harder to see at night. 
<<<

Hmm... I had forgot about S-M 13 and 14. According to my memory he put the black suit on on in those issues because he was about to go down into the sewers, and he thought that the black suit would help him stay hidden in from whatever he would encounter down there. Unfortunately the opponents he met down there could see in darkness, including Morbius the Living Vampire.
_________________
- Stefan 

"When it comes to reassuring a traumatized 19-year-old, I'm about as expert as a palsy victim doing brain surgery with a pipe wrench." 
- John Hartigan in Sin City (2005)

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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:14 pm    
By Mikhail

He also wore the black mask and gloves with civilian clothes during the Clone Saga, in the Mark of Kaine arc. 

Also, the idea that his one-hour-evaporation webbing has been holding the costume there in the church for ANY length of time is a little credulous.

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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:01 pm    
By JLH

Mikhail wrote: 
>>>
Also, the idea that his one-hour-evaporation webbing has been holding the costume there in the church for ANY length of time is a little credulous. 
<<<

That's what you get from a writer with a "no-edit" clause in his contract.

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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:55 am    
By Col_Fury

I'm just happy to see him in the black suit in new comics. I love that uniform on Spider-Man! 

I'm easy to please, I guess.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:19 am    
By dubj1979

I think they are just doing it for the movie....ppl that dont read comics would be more likely to grab the comics because, like in the movie, he has a black outfit. I dont know how many times i mention something current in comics and someone else says "Wait, thats not how it was in the cartoon, or movie" 
They think they know, but they dont. Oh well.

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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:03 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

JLH wrote: 
>>>
That's what you get from a writer with a "no-edit" clause in his contract. 
<<<

To be fair, given that Straczynski has spent the last couple of years dutifully participating in crossovers and CIVIL WAR tie-ins, and acknowledging Spider-Man's involvement in NEW AVENGERS, he's clearly not being too precious about that clause.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:59 pm    
By JLH

His horribly contradictive versions of scenes that played out in the main Civil War book, though, reinforce his inability to play well with others.

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Thread 19

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:34 pm    Post subject: Earth's Mightiest Heroes II
By Paul Bourcier
Director

With one big exception, I found Earth's Mightiest Heroes II an easier fit into existing continuity than Earth's Mightiest Heroes I. There are several inconsistencies that can be explained easily with BTS scenarios or interpreted as artistic license. 

The one big exception concerns the Avengers' knowledge of the identity of Yellowjacket. In A 59-60, it is obvious from dialog that the Avengers did not know that YJ was Hank Pym. In A:EMHII, the Avengers figured it out right away but were forced to "play along" for the sake of Pym's mental health. Personally, I prefer the retcon, as the original story just doesn't make much sense to me. However, the retcon makes integrating A:EMHII with the original comics a bit awkward in spots. (Will certain lines of dialog from A 59-60 have to be ignored?) 

Nevertheless, I gave it the ol' college try. What follows is my interpretation of how the sequence of events should go if A:EMHII is declared canonical, awkward moments and all. (Forgive the non-standard citations and format here; I based this off of notes I compiled a number of years ago, before I adopted newer protocols and MCP codes.) 



AVENGERS #57 
(one evening; a few days after Av 58 FB; according to OMITTA 1, this story occurs between Av Ann 2 and SM 8 and between NFAS 6 and 7; early September of Peter Parkers sophomore year of college) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Black Widow II, Ultron-5, [Nick Fury] 

SUB-MARINER #8 
(probably day after Av 57; according to OMITTA 1, this story must occur after FF 81; September 7) 
Sub-Mariner, Dorma, Diane Arliss, Betty Prentiss, Thing, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Vision II 

AVENGERS #58 
(same day as SM 8; according to OMITTA 1, this story occurs after SS 4 and IIM 6 and before CA 109; "September 7") 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Thor, Iron Man, Captain America 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #1 (page 1- page 5, panel 4) 
(same night as Av 58; it must be a few months, not a few weeks, after Av 52; green grass and trees in New York; it must be September 7) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Jarvis, Super-Adaptoid, AIM 

AVENGERS #280 (flashback: page 14, panels 5-7) 
(same night as AEMHII 1 pg. 1-6; September 7) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Jarvis 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #1 (page 5, panel 5 - page 12, panel 3) 
(same night as Av 280 FB pg. 14, pn. 5-7; it must be September 7) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Jarvis, Jasper Sitwell, Agent Murch, Henry Peter Gyrich 

AVENGERS #280 (flashback: page 15, panels 1-7) 
(early morning after AEMHII 1 pg. 6-12; it must be September 8) 
Vision II, Jarvis 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #1 (page 12, panel 4 - page 22) 
(probably the same day as Av 280 FB pg. 15; full moon; probably September 8) 
Hawkeye, Black Panther, Vision II, Jarvis, Jasper Sitwell, Agent Murch, Henry Peter Gyrich, AIM, [Super-Adaptoid] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #2 
(same night as AEMHII 1 pg. 12-22, the next day, and the day after that; the second day is a school day; green grass; probably September 8-10) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Captain America, Black Widow II (as Natasha Romanova), Jarvis, Nick Fury, Jasper Sitwell, Agent Murch, Henry Peter Gyrich, NTaka, MChata, Naraba, Miss Parker, Delroy Munch, Rose, AIM, Super-Adaptoid, (Iron Man), (NGamo) 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #3 (flashback) 
(same day as AEMHII 2 end; probably September 10) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Nick Fury 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #3 
(same day as AEMHII 3 FB; probably September 10) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Super-Adaptoid, AIM 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #4 (pages 1-10) 
(same day as AEMHII 3; a week before AEMHII 4 pg. 11-14; probably September 10) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Jarvis, Nick Fury, Super-Adaptoid, AIM, 

CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON #186 (flashback, pages 10-12) 
(one day; probably early September) 
Falcon II (as Sam Wilson) 

NICK FURY, AGENT OF SHIELD #7 
(one day?; according to OMITTA 1, this story occurs after Av 57; early September) 
Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, Jimmy Woo, Sister Angela, Enemy Ambassador 

NOT BRAND ECCH #12 
(one day; must occur between A 280-FB (14-15) and A 59-FB; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II 

CAPTAIN AMERICA #109 
(one day; according to OMITTA 1, this story occurs between Av 58 and 59; mid-September) 
Captain America, Nick Fury 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #4 (pages 11-14) 
(one day; a week after AEMHII 4 pg. 1-10; must be mid-September) 
Hawkeye, Black Panther, Vision II, Delroy Munch 

AVENGERS #59 (flashback) 
(same day as AEMHII 4 pg. 1-10; a week or so after Av 58; according to OMITTA 1, this flashback occurs after NFAS 7 and between Av 280 FB pg. 14-15 and Av 60 FB; it must occur after NBE 12; mid September) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Henry Pym), Wasp (as Janet Van Dyne), Black Panther, Vision II, Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Black Widow II 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #4 (pages 15-22) 
(same day as Av 59 FB; green trees; must be mid September) 
Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Agent Murch 

AVENGERS #60 (flashback) 
(same night as AEMHII 4 pg. 15-22; mid September) 
Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp (as Janet Van Dyne) 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (pages 1-3) 
(same night as Av 60 FB; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), [Mikey] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (pages 4-5) 
(day after AEMHII 5 pg. 1-3; school was in session last month, before Luke Charles joined the faculty; 
Black Panther (as Luke Charles), Miss Parker, /Wakandan guy/ 

AVENGERS #59 (page 1-page 4, panel 1) 
(same night as AEMHII 5 pg. 4-5; according to OMITTA 1, this story occurs after SSM 2 end; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Big Eddie, Charlie XI, Rocky II 

AVENGERS #59 (page 4, panel 2-page 8, panel 3) 
(morning after Av 59 pg. 1-4; 
Hawkeye, Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Jarvis, Spider-Man, J. Jonah Jameson 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (pages 6-10) 
(same morning as AEMHII 5 pg. 4-8; YJs been busting heads for a few nights now; green trees; full moon; 
Hawkeye, Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Black Widow II, Dum Dum Dugan, Jasper Sitwell, Special Agent Carver 

AVENGERS #59 (page 8, panel 4) 
(same morning as AEMHII 5 pg. 6-10; 
Hawkeye, Black Panther, Vision II, [Wasp] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (page 11-page 20, panel 4) 
(same morning as Av 59 pg. 8, pn. 4; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Jarvis, Jasper Sitwell, Special Agent Carver 

AVENGERS #59 (page 8, panel 5-page 9, panel 1) 
(same morning as AEMHII 5 pg. 11-20; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Black Panther, [Wasp], [Vision II] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (page 20, panel 5) 
(same morning as Av 59 pg. 8-9; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Vision II, [Wasp], [Black Panther] 

AVENGERS #59 (page 9, panel 2) ~ AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (page 21, panel 1) 
(same morning as AEMHII 5 pg. 20, pn. 5; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), [Hawkeye], [Wasp], [Black Panther], [Vision II] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (page 21) 
(same morning as Av 59 pg, 9, pn. 2; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II 

AVENGERS #59 (page 9, panel 3-page 14) 
(same morning as AEMHII 5 pg. 21; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (page 22, panel 1) 
(same morning as Av 59 pg. 9-14; 
Hawkeye, Wasp, [Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket)], [Black Panther], [Vision II] 

AVENGERS #59 (page 15, panel 1) 
(same morning as AEMHII pg. 22, pn. 1; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), [Wasp], [Black Panther], [Vision II] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (page 22, panel 2) 
(same morning as Av 59 pg. 15, pn. 1; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), [Hawkeye], [Wasp], [Black Panther], [Vision II] 

AVENGERS #59 (page 15, panel 2) 
(same morning as AEMHII 5 pg. 22, pn. 2; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Vision II, [Wasp], [Black Panther] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (page 22, panel 3) 
(same morning as Av 59 pg. 15, pn. 2; 
Hawkeye, Vision II, [Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket)], [Wasp], [Black Panther] 

AVENGERS #59 (page 15, panels 3-4) 
(same morning as AEMHII 5 pg. 22, pn. 3; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Black Panther, [Hawkeye], [Wasp], [Vision II] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (page 22, panel 4) 
(same morning as Av 59 pg. 15, pn. 3-4; 
Hawkeye, Black Panther, [Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket)], [Wasp], [Vision II] 

AVENGERS #59 (page 16, panels 1-3) 
(same morning as AEMHII 5 pg. 22, pn. 4; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, [Hawkeye] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #5 (page 22, panel 5) 
(same morning as Av 59 pg. 16, pn. 1-3; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, [Hawkeye], [Black Panther], [Vision II] 

AVENGERS #59 (page 16, panels 4-6) 
(same day as AEMHII 5 pg. 22, pn. 5; mid September) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Vision II 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 1-page 5, panel 1) 
(same day as Av 59 pg. 16 pn. 4-6; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Nick Fury, Jasper Sitwell, Special Agent Carver 

AVENGERS #59 (page 17, panels 1-2) 
(same day as AEMHII 6 pg. 1-5; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 5, panel 2-page 6, panel 3) 
(same day as Av 59 pg. 17, pn. 1-2; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp 

AVENGERS #59 (page 17, panel 3-page 18, panel 5) 
(same day as AEMHII 6 pg. 5-6; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTEST HEROES II #6 (page 6, panels 4-6) 
(same day as Av 59 pg. 17-18; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp 

AVENGERS #59 (page 18, panel 6) 
(same day as AEMHII 6 pg. 6, pn. 4-6; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 6, panel 7) 
(same day as Av 59 pg. 18, pn. 6; thirty-six hours before A:EMH 6 pg. 7, pn. 1; 
Wasp, [Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket)] 

AVENGERS #59 (pages 19-20) 
(same day as AEMHII 6 pg. 6, pn. 7; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II 

AVENGERS #60 (flashback: page 3, panel 3) 
(same day as Av 59 pg. 19-20; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, [Black Panther], [Vision II] 

NICK FURY, AGENT OF SHIELD #8 
(probably the day after Av 60 FB pg. 3, pn. 3; according to OMITTA 1, this story occurs between Av 59 and 60; mid September) 
Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Iron Man (as Tony Stark), Supremus, Half-Man, Fatima, Cedric Twigg-Smythe, Pierre St. Cyr, Tumumba, Pepe Soulange, Guiseppe Valenti 

AVENGERS #60 (page 1-page 2, panel 1) 
(probably the morning after NFAS 8 and Av 60 FB and two days after A:EMHII 6 pg. 1-6; shortly after Av 59; a week or two after SM 8; according to OMITTXM 2 and OMITTA 1, this segment occurs after XM 52 1st; according to OMITTA 1, this story occurs after DD 46 and DS 174; wedding day of Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne; the reference to Tuesday, the twenty-first of November must be topical; mid September) 
Captain America 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 7, panel 1) 
(same morning as Av 60 pg. 1-2; thirty-six hours after A:EMH 6 pg. 6, pn. 7; 
Captain America 

AVENGERS #60 (page 2, panel 2-page 3) 
(same morning as AEMHII 6 pg. 7, pn. 1; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Captain America, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 7, panels 1-4) 
(same morning as Av 60 pg. 2-3; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp,, Captain America 

AVENGERS #60 (page 4, panels 1-3) 
(same morning as AEMHII 6 pg. 7, pn. 1-4; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp, Black Panther, Captain America 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 7, panel 5-page 9) 
(same morning as Av 60 pg. 4, pn. 1-3; fourteen hours before AEMHII 6 pg. 10-; green tree; 
Wasp, Captain America 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (pages 10-14) 
(same evening as (fourteen hours after) AEMHII 6 pg. 7-9; green grass and trees; 
Hawkeye, Black Panther, Vision II, Captain America, Black Knight IV, Nick Fury, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange II, Iron Man, Human Torch II, Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Cyclops II, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), White Tiger, [Wasp (as Janet Van Dyne)], [Invisible Woman (as Sue Richards)] 

AVENGERS #60 (page 4, panel 4-page 8) 
(same evening as AEMHII 6 pg. 10-14; a few years after FF Ann 3; 
Hawkeye, Wasp (as Janet Van Dyne), Black Panther, Vision II, Captain America, Invisible Woman (as Sue Richards), Crystal, Edwin Jarvis, Black Knight IV, Nick Fury, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange II, Iron Man, Human Torch II, Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Cyclops II, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Daredevil, Ringmaster II, Princess Python, Clown, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS FOREVER #1-#12 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 4-8 for Yellowjacket; some months before Hawkeyes AvF 1-12; mid September) 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Edwin Jarvis, Ringmaster II, Princess Python, Clown, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS #60 (page 9, panels 1-3) 
(same evening as AcF 1-12; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 15, panels 1-4) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 9, pn. 1-3; 
Edwin Jarvis, Ringmaster II, Princess Python, Clown, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS #60 (page 9, panel 4) 
(same evening as AEMHII 6 pg. 15, pn. 1-4; 
Hawkeye, Ringmaster II, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 15, panel 5-page 16, panel 1) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 9, pn. 4; 
Hawkeye, Human Cannonball 

AVENGERS #60 (page 10, panels 1-2) 
(same evening as AEMHII 6 pg. 15-16; 
Hawkeye, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 16, panels 2-3) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 10, pn. 1-2; 
Hawkeye, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS #60 (page 10, panels 3-5) 
(same evening as AEMHII 6 pg. 16, pn. 2-3; 
Hawkeye, Ringmaster II, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 16, panel 4-page 20) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 10, pn. 3-5; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Captain America, Invisible Woman (as Sue Richards), Edwin Jarvis, Black Knight IV, Nick Fury, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange II, Iron Man, Human Torch II, Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Cyclops II, Phoenix IV (as Marvel Girl), Beast, Iceman, Archangel (as Angel III), Ringmaster II, Princess Python, Clown, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS #60 (page 11, panel 1) 
(same evening as AEMHII 6 pg. 16-20; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Knight IV, Human Torch II, Thing, Cyclops II, Beast, Archangel (as Angel III) 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 21, panels 1-3) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 11, pn. 1; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp (as Janet Pym) 

AVENGERS #60 (page 11, panels 2-3) 
(same evening as AEMHII 6 pg. 21, pn. 1-3; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp (as Janet Pym) 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #6 (page 21, panel 4) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 11, pn. 2-3; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Knight IV, Thing, Archangel (as Angel III) 

AVENGERS #60 (page 11, panel 4) 
(same evening as AEMHII 6 pg. 21, pn. 4; 
Wasp (as Janet Pym) 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #7 (page 1, panel 1) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 11, pn. 4; 
Wasp (as Janet Pym) 

AVENGERS #60 (page 12-page 15, panel 2) 
(same evening as AEMHII 7 pg. 1, pn. 1; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Mr. Fantastic, Daredevil, Ringmaster II, Princess Python, Clown, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #7 (page 1, panel 2-page 2, panel 6) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 12-15; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Black Panther, Vision II, Ringmaster II, Clown 

AVENGERS #60 (page 15, panels 3-4) 
(same evening as AEMHII 7 pg. 1-2; 
Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Ringmaster II, Princess Python 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #7 (page 2, panel 7) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 15, pn. 3-4; 
Giant-Man (as Goliath), Ringmaster II 

AVENGERS #60 (page 16-page 18, panel 1) 
(same evening as AEMHII 7 pg. 2, pn. 7; 
Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Mr. Fantastic, Daredevil, Ringmaster II, Princess Python, Clown, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #7 (page 3, panels 1-2) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 16-18; 
Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS #60 (page 18, panel 2-page 19, panel 2) 
(same evening as AEMHII 7 pg. 3, pn. 1-2; 
Hawkeye, Wasp (as Janet Pym), Edwin Jarvis, Princess Python 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #7 (page 3, panel 3) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 18-19; 
Hawkeye 

AVENGERS #60 (page 19, panel 3) 
(same evening as AEMHII 7 pg. 3, pn. 3; 
Hawkeye 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #7 (page 3, panel 4) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 19, pn. 3; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Captain America, Iron Man, Giant-Man (as Yellowjacket), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Mr. Fantastic, Daredevil, Ringmaster II, Princess Python, Clown, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno 

AVENGERS #60 (page 19, panel 4) 
(same evening as AEMHII 7 pg. 3, pn. 4; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Ringmaster II, Princess Python, Clown, Human Cannonball, Luigi Gambonno, Ernesto Gambonno 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #7 (page 3, panel 5) 
same evening as Av 60 pg. 19, pn. 4; 
Hawkeye 

AVENGERS #60 (page 20) 
(same evening as AEMHII 7 pg. 3, pn. 5; 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp (as Janet Pym) 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #7 (pages 4-5) 
(same evening as Av 60 pg. 20; two days before AEMHII 7 pg. 6-; according to OMITTXM 2 and OMITTA 1, this segment occurs before XM 53 1st; according to OMITTA 1, this story occurs before DD 47, DS 175, IH 105, ASM 68, and CA 110; mid September) 
Black Panther, Captain America, Nick Fury, Jasper Sitwell, Clown 

DAREDEVIL #47 
(may be same evening as Av 60 pg. 20 and the day after; a few short months after DD 47 FB; September 16 and September 17) 
Daredevil, Karen Page, Willie Lincoln, Biggie Benson, Whitey Barton 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #7 (pages 6-22) 
(one school day; two days after AEMHII 7 pg. 4-5; green grass and shrubs; 
Giant-Man (as Hank Pym), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Edwin Jarvis, Nick Fury, Special Agent Carver, Delroy Munch, Death Tiger, Super-Adaptoid 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #8 (pages 1-17) 
(same night as AEMHII 7 pg. 6-22; 
Giant-Man (as Hank Pym), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Edwin Jarvis, Jasper Sitwell, Delroy Munch, Super-Adaptoid 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #8 (pages 18-23) 
(day after AEMHII 8 pg. 1-17; probably before IIM 7; a school day; green grass and trees; 
Giant-Man (as Hank Pym), Wasp (as Janet Pym), Black Panther, Vision II, Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow II, Edwin Jarvis, Nick Fury, Miss Parker 


Folks with all these comics are encouraged to review them in this order to see if what I propose makes sense (to the extent that it can make sense). Thanks.
_________________
Paul B.

Last edited by Paul Bourcier on Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:55 pm    
By Col_Fury

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Folks with all these comics are encouraged to review them in this order to see if what I propose makes sense (to the extent that it can make sense). Thanks. 
<<<

I like it. I can't speak to Not Brand Ecch 12, however... 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
The one big exception concerns the Avengers' knowledge of the identity of Yellowjacket. In A 59-60, it is obvious from dialog that the Avengers did not know that YJ was Hank Pym. In A:EMHII, the Avengers figured it out right away but were forced to "play along" for the sake of Pym's mental health. Personally, I prefer the retcon, as the original story just doesn't make much sense to me.  
<<<

I prefer the revised version as well. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
However, the retcon makes integrating A:EMHII with the original comics a bit awkward in spots. (Will certain lines of dialog from A 59-60 have to be ignored?)  
<<<

Nope, we don't have to ignore anything! 

I just have one suggestion: 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #1 (page 1- page 6, panel 1) 
(same night as Av 58; it must be a few months, not a few weeks, after Av 52; green grass and trees in New York; it must be September 7) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Jarvis, Super-Adaptoid, AIM 

AVENGERS #280 (flashback: page 14, panels 5-7) 
(same night as AEMHII 1 pg. 1-6; September 7) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Jarvis 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #1 (page 6, panel 2 - page 12, panel 3) 
(same night as Av 280 FB pg. 14, pn. 5-7; it must be September 7) 
Hawkeye, Giant-Man (as Goliath), Wasp, Black Panther, Vision II, Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Jarvis, Jasper Sitwell, Agent Murch, Henry Peter Gyrich  
<<<

An alternative: 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #1 pg1-pg5pn4 
As the meeting finishes, Jarvis off-panel says "Excuse me... 

AVENGERS #280-FB pg14pn5-pg14pn7 
...you called, sirs." Hawkeye then introduces Jarvis to the Vision, and they shake hands. 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES II #1 pg5pn5-pg12pn3 
Jarvis then suggests that it might be time for a bit of refreshment, etc. 

That's all I have. Everything else looks great! Nice work, Paul. 


A question: 
>>>
Paul Bourcier wrote: 
if A:EMHII is declared canonical, 
<<<

Why wouldn't it be, and by extension, the first volume? 
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:34 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director


Looks good to me. Thanks, Col!
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 20

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:51 am    Post subject: Agents of Atlas/Temple of Atlas
By Somebody

Re: http://www.marvel.com/blogs/Mr.%20Lao/ 

Quite a few (prose) stories, written by the AoAt writer (Jeff Parker). Canon? 

And, on a related note, WI? 9 is now explicitly non-canon (as previously implied by Avengers Forever #5-6), with the MU version of events shown briefly in the opening to AoAt1. Now, 3D-Man (who is retconned out)'s chronology already seperates out WI?9/AvForever 4-5 to a "3-D MAN II", and a similar change has been made for Venus; but not Marvel Boy/Grayson, Gorilla-Man or Human Robot who all include the WI?/AvFor issues in their main entries [Jimmy Woo's entry doesn't include WI? 9, but nor is there a Jimmy Woo II entry, similarly for Namora and the Yellow Claw].

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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:12 am    
By jephyork
Director

Quote: 
>>>
WI? 9 is now explicitly non-canon 
<<<

Careful how you use that term. I assume you mean, the 1950's events that the Avengers view on Iron Man's screen didn't happen in the MU's past. The framing sequence, however, is still Earth-616 canon. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:57 am    
By Somebody

Ummm... I'd forgotten the framing sequence when I typed that, since it's pretty trivial  

Actually, the thought occurs - if 50s WI?9 references are in the MCP, shouldn't they be WI? 9-FB?

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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:11 am    
By jephyork
Director

It's not a flashback -- the Avengers are actually viewing the past on a big screen. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:11 pm    
By Somebody

And, on reading AoAt #2, a footnote on the text page places this after "the catastrophe in Stamford" as context that Namorita had been around in the 70s studying under Venus (i.e. CW1 - potentially quite a lot of time after, since it's an "article" that a SHIELD agent dug out for Dum-Dum Dugan as the "only noteworthy writing" he could find on the character Venus, and thus could have been published any amount of time beforehand).

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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:02 am    
By Somebody

Nothing much more to note as such, except "great series" and that I pity whoever volunteered to analyse this, who'll end up having to pull Venus & Aphrodite's listings, Marvel Boy & Crusader's listings, interlock the flashbacks from #3 into Quasar #2-3 somehow and, of course, remember to take out WI?9 and AvForever from their listings where it's already not already shunted out to (Character) II's. And not forget Dum Dum's appearances in Wolverine: Origins and Captain America in the same sort of timeframe, while finding a place for Black Panther's cameo .

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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:08 am    
By Col_Fury

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
not forget Dum Dum's appearances in Wolverine: Origins and Captain America in the same sort of timeframe, while finding a place for Black Panther's cameo  
<<<

Dum Dum's the trick. Agents of ATLAS references the events of Civil War #1, putting it after the Stamford Incident, while Wolverine: Origins takes place before that, according to editor's notes. 

Seeing what happened to Dum Dum in Wolverine: Origins, I would like to put that as his last appearance, but he appears in Captain America during the Civil War well after the Stamford Incident. Hopefully his appearance in Origins 10 isn't as final as it looks. 

Awesome series. I'm hoping for more, but I don't think it sold well enough to warrant it. Too bad.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:09 am    
By Somebody

Well, the WolvOrig10 solicit promised... I'll just quote: 

Quote: 
>>>
It all endsand it all beginsin this issue, featuring both the death of a beloved Marvel character...  
<<<

Leaving aside the hyperbole for a moment, there are two candidates for that - Jubilee & Dugan. Future issues should make clear which, but the fact that Joe Q's been periodically saying "Jubilee's going to be one of the big characters of 2007" pretty much indicates which one lives and which one doesn't, no? 

As for that editors' note, barring a LMD revelation, I think it may have to fall as impossible, but we shall see, of course... 


Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Awesome series. I'm hoping for more, but I don't think it sold well enough to warrant it. Too bad. 
<<<

There's going to be a few more appearances, according to Parker (including a Marvel Adventures Avengers one), who's also said that the blog story will be included in the PHC... 

Probably not much luck for another series though... 

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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:28 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

Hold on, though - isn't WOLVERINE: ORIGINS still running in a direct continuation from Daniel Way's WOLVERINE arc (with Wolverine on the run from the authorities throughout)? If so, the series is still pre-CIVIL WAR, even though that seems to contradict Dugan's appearance in AGENTS OF ATLAS. 

It's possible, I suppose, that they changed their minds about killing Dugan. It seems remarkable that they would kill off the character that casually, in a way that doesn't even make it clear whether he's supposed to be dead. But then again, it's WOLVERINE: ORIGINS, and it's not very good.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:21 am    
By Somebody

I honestly don't know - I read an issue or two of Dan Way's Wolverine run, decided it wasn't very good myself, and haven't bothered with it since. I only glanced at Origins #10 because of Jubilee & Dugan's supposed deaths to see how definitive they were. One expects though that, unless ordered to the contrary, IF Way intends that Dugan IS dead he'll continue playing it that way in his title indefinitely, and other titles will "catch up" to that in course...

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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:40 am    
By Kevin W.
Director

Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
Hold on, though - isn't WOLVERINE: ORIGINS still running in a direct continuation from Daniel Way's WOLVERINE arc (with Wolverine on the run from the authorities throughout)? If so, the series is still pre-CIVIL WAR, even though that seems to contradict Dugan's appearance in AGENTS OF ATLAS. 
<<<


Is it possible there's a break between W3 #36-40 (Way's first arc) and the start of Wolverine: Origins? Maybe Logan started his quest to "deal with these new memories" in W3 36-40, but then had to put his personal quest on hold to deal with stuff in the X-titles and Civil War...and THEN Wolverine: Origins starts up again? After all, I got the sense that he wasn't really a wanted man until he invaded the White House in Wolverine: Origins #1. 

...on the other hand, if what they're hinting at happening to Captain America occurs, that would prevent him from appearing in "Wolverine: Origins" post-Civil War...
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:02 pm    
By Col_Fury

Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
Hold on, though - isn't WOLVERINE: ORIGINS still running in a direct continuation from Daniel Way's WOLVERINE arc (with Wolverine on the run from the authorities throughout)? If so, the series is still pre-CIVIL WAR, even though that seems to contradict Dugan's appearance in AGENTS OF ATLAS.  
<<<

Exactly. 


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
But then again, it's WOLVERINE: ORIGINS, and it's not very good. 
<<<

You're right, it's not really that good. 


Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
...on the other hand, if what they're hinting at happening to Captain America occurs, that would prevent him from appearing in "Wolverine: Origins" post-Civil War... 
<<<

That's why they had the editor's captions in the first couple of issues of Origins telling us this was pre-Civil War. 

The story has been continuous from Wolverine 36 through Origins 10, without any breaks except for the time where Wolverine is travelling from one spot to another.(meaning there's not room for him to appear elsewhere during the travel time) We may need to shoe-horn a break in there somewhere... depending on if Dum Dum pulls through or not.(I'm hopeful, but I don't see that happening somehow) 

I'm working on an analysis of it, we'll see how it turns out.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:11 pm    
By Somebody

Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
Hold on, though - isn't WOLVERINE: ORIGINS still running in a direct continuation from Daniel Way's WOLVERINE arc (with Wolverine on the run from the authorities throughout)? If so, the series is still pre-CIVIL WAR, even though that seems to contradict Dugan's appearance in AGENTS OF ATLAS.  
<<<

Exactly. 
<<<

And the Captain America CW arc (the Sharon issue), remember...

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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:17 pm    
By jephyork
Director

For those of us that didn't read it, what are you referring to? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:13 pm    
By Somebody

Which part? 

Dugan apparently got gutted at the end of Wolverine: Origins #10 by Son of Wolverine. Jubilee earlier got a spike through her torso, but was sent for medical attention and Joe Q's talk about her suggests she makes it. The solicit promised the death of "a beloved Marvel character" and they were the only two non-redshirt potential deaths. 

Dugan also appeared in Agents of Atlas #1, 2, 3 and 6. #2, 3 and 4 contain Civil War references (#2 and 4 to Stamford, #3 to SHIELD troops getting pulled off other duties to deal with CW stuff). 

And Captain America #22, where he'd been fighting Cap in a Cape-Killer suit along with a few others,and copped a fairly severe beating off him before Cap found out it was him (Cap also put four of his men in "critical care" apparently). Sharon drops by to see him in what looks like some sort of Helicarrier sick bay in the aftermath, with him mobile but with an arm in a sling and on "pain meds".

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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:11 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Which part? 
<<<

The "Sharon issue" part. Thanks for clarifying. 

You know, personally I'd like to see actual on-panel confirmation that Dugan's dead. "The solicitation copy" isn't enough. 

(And has anyone considered that "the death of a beloved Marvel hero" refers to Wolverine himself? Not that he'll actually *stay* dead, mind you, but he received some pretty severe injuries at the end of the issue, and he could clinically "die" of them before healing...) 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:30 pm    
By Somebody

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
You know, personally I'd like to see actual on-panel confirmation that Dugan's dead. "The solicitation copy" isn't enough. 
<<<

Ergo: 
Somebody wrote: 
>>>
...IF Way intends that Dugan IS dead... 
<<<

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Dugan apparently got gutted at the end of Wolverine: Origins #10 by Son of Wolverine. 
<<<

Hope for the best, expect/plan for the worst'n'all that... 

			*	*	*

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:02 pm    
By jephyork
Director

I wasn't claiming that YOU thought the solicits WERE enough to declare him dead. I meant that, in my opinion, we shoudn't even be bothering to waste time *discussing* it until we get confirmation that he's dead. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:52 am    
By Kevin W.
Director

Okay, Wolverine: Origins #11 has been released, and there indeed is no sign of Dugan, (and it looks like the "S.H.I.E.L.D. is hunting Logan" subplot may be dropped for now)....but we have another problem with this series: In the scene with the farmers and their mutant kid, (is he a mutant? Is this #199?) the father mentions talk about registration...so that would clearly be after Civil War #1, correct? Yet all of W:O is supposed to run pre-Civil War, (because there's been no interruption in the storyline to date, correct)? More and more, it looks to me like we are going to have to find a point in the series to make a break...
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:48 am    
By Somebody


Depends on the context. As far as a simple mention of registration goes, the Bill was going through pre-CW, Stamford just gave it a kick up the backside (remember, there's been a gap spliced into ASM between the Washington/Titanium Man trip and the epilogue with the Stamford news already). What are the details of the line - i.e. *how* does it mention registration?

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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:14 pm    
By Col_Fury

A quick breakdown of Wolverine: Origins #11: 

pg1-pg16 shows Wolverine escaping from SHIELD troops, then follows up on his son. All in one day. 

pg17-pg22 shows the strong idiot, and his parents talking about registration. Some quotes: 

Dad: "We should've registered him!" 

... 

Mom: "They wouldn't have put him in the service and you know it! They would've just locked him up!" 

To me, it reads like the bill has already passed, and the public knows that super humans are serving in SHIELD after training. 

Until issue 12 comes out, I'm thinking the break in time may be between pgs 16 & 17 of issue 11. Wolverine escapes SHIELD here, Civil War happens, and then the idiot is contacted by Cyber. Even if Wolverine's plot picks up in issue 12, without references to other books, that looks like, at least for now, the best place. 

There's always the chance that some reference will try to make next issue the next day or something, but we may end up having to ignore that.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:13 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I was going to follow up on this thread by listing all the pre-CW comics in which registration is mentioned, but that seems a bit moot now. 

It seems clear from this dialog that at least part of issue #11 is meant to occur after the registration deadline during CW. What's the deal with Logan's costume in this issue? Is it brown both before and after the proposed gap? 

More imprtantly, how does the Logan vs. SHIELD plot in ORIGINS stack up against Logan's CW-era appearances? In W3 43-45, he's working with Stark's cooperation. Then in W3 47-48 and BLADE3 5, SHIELD wants his butt on a platter.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:41 am    
By JD

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
What's the deal with Logan's costume in this issue? Is it brown both before and after the proposed gap? 
<<<

Logan is not present in the second part.

			*	*	*

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:52 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
(is he a mutant? Is this #199?)  
<<<

Well, the story doesn't say one way or the other. But the set-up is a pretty obvious riff on Superman (with the Kents exasperated by a sweet, yet unbearably dim super-powered childman who doesn't know his own strength). So the obvious origin is "alien", and the second-most obvious is "mutated by pesticides", I'd say.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:05 pm    
By Col_Fury

Origins 12 is out, and of course Way has inferred the events of issue 11 as recent. Wolverine's still in Germany and trying to get to the Carbonadium Synthesizer before his son does. 

I still think that a gap should be spliced between pages 16 & 17 of issue 11, and that with the events of Civil War, Wolverine's priorities had shifted for a while. He's now looking for the Synthesizer again... but what his son had been up to, who cares? There's also a reference by Wolverine that every law enforcement agency in the world is after him, while most likely a reference to the previous issues, we can chalk up to him being a member of the Secret Avengers and that's why they're looking for him. 

Speaking of the Avengers, New Avengers 28 shows the Silver Samurai with one hand, and references the events of Wolverine 35(or was it 36?) as happening in the past.(well duh, if he's missing his hand...) 

Dum Dum is no longer an issue, thanks to Marvel's Editor In Chief confirming that he's not dead.  

Thoughts?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:45 am    
By jephyork
Director

I'm annoyed that they messed with the scene from Wolverine v2 #93 where the Dark Riders come for Cyber. IIRC, he wasn't in SHIELD custody -- he was chained to the wall in some Scottish prison. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:08 pm    
By Mikhail

Just read the Agents of Atlas series. Here's one of those wacky, useless questions that there's really no point in answering: 

Who was the Blue Marvel then? During the Infinity Gauntlet, Thanos creates a series of past quantum band wielders to fight Quasar, including "Robert Grayson, the Crusader". He ended up slipping through the cracks and reappearing as a crazed vigilante named the Blue Marvel later in the Quasar series. So...was that a recreation of Bob Grayson himself, or the Eternal who looked like him and posed as the Crusader?

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Thread 21

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Police Commissioners
By Enda80

I noticed that Feingold and Brian Dewolff did not receive entries. I known that the former appeared in Defenders I#39, while Dewolff was apparently not the police commissioner in the Captain America Crime-Wave storyline or Captain America#242. Does Dewolff has any bts appearances as commissioner? 

MVL commissioners have been a bit less prominent than Gordon, Wainwright Barth, or Kirkpatrick from the Batman, the Shadow, and the Spider.

			*	*	*

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:51 pm    
By Arthur
Director

Enda80 wrote; 
>>>
Dewolff was apparently not the police commissioner in the Captain America Crime-Wave storyline or Captain America#242.  
<<<

Fine. He was not commissioner in those issues. More importantly, in what issues WAS he the commissioner? 

btw... Brian Dewolff's listing is under WRAITH.

			*	*	*

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:44 am    
By Enda80

Sorry, Philip DeWolff (Brian's father) does not have a listing.

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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:19 pm    
By Arthur
Director

So where does Philip DeWolff appear?

			*	*	*

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:41 pm    
By Enda80

Okay, I dug out Fantastic Four Index#2 (January 1986) and Marvel Team-Up Index#3 (May 1986). In the former, on page 22, the author states that Philip Dewolff took over from the police commissioner seen in Fantastic Four I#3, 14 and 25. He notes that Dewolff made no published appearances as police commissioner in any story published in the 1960's or 1970's, and was not the police commissioner seen in ASM I#57-59 and #65, or Captain America I#139, or bts in Daredevil I#144. 

In the MTU Index on page 10, the author revises the above view to state that Dewolff was removed as police commissioner "two years" before MTU I#49 by the present commissioner. He states that Dewolff was not the police commissioner seen in Captain America I#159 [note: this commissioner may have been seen in Cap#139). The author posits that Dewolff may have taken over as commissioner shortly after Cap#159, but was soon replaced by Commissioner Feingold, who was commissioner when MTU I#49 was published (Feingold seen and named in Defenders#39). However, Feingold was replaced by the commissioner from Cap#159, who was back in office in Cap#232. 

In one of his indexes published after MTU Index#3, Olshvesky the author seems to mention his discussion of the commissioner issue again, but I forgot which one. 

Anyway, the upside of this is that I suppose that any stories that takes place between Cap#159 and MTU#49 that features a police commissioner must refer to Philip Dewolff. 

I'll check Spider-Man Saga#2-3 for any further info they might have on Dewolff. Other than his initial MTU appearances, I think he was in Specatular#107 and the denouement of the Sin-Eater storyline.

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Thread 22

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:41 pm    Post subject: Earth's Mightiest Heroes #8?
By jephyork
Director

So, EMH #8 came out last week ... now that the series is over, how does it stack up as a whole to A #1-16? Can it be reconciled with the original issues? Or are the discrepancies too major, and the whole thing needs to be chucked out -- joining Joe Casey's OTHER early-days epic, "X-Men: Children of the Atom"? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:46 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

There are discrepancies -- of that there is no doubt. Some scenes in the series cannot be reconciled with the original stories at all -- the continuity is just too messed up; we will have to deem these scenes non-canonical. Over the course of eight issues, those scenes are relatively few. (They started cropping up at the end of issue #5.) Surprisingly, many scenes can be folded into established continuity, although some a little awkwardly. In other cases, we'd have to be willing to ignore discrepancies in clothing (e.g. Rick wears more contemporary clothing in A:EMH than he did in the same scenes from early Avengers issues). 

I believe A:EMH has a number of scenes that enrich the Avengers mythos and do not directly contradict established canon. I think we should seriously consider adding them to the MCP. I also believe there are several scenes (some just a few panels in length) that add little new content and contradict established canon. They do not belong in the MCP. The question is: can we pick and choose new canonical scenes from A:EMH and disregard others? Or do the obviously non-canonical scenes automatically throw entire issues or the entire series out of consideration? 

I posted my reviews of the first five issues of A:EMH and how they mesh with original Avengers issues. When I saw that scenes started veering from canonicity, I gave up my bi-weekly postings. But never fear, I have completed a review of issues #7 and 8 and plan to get to issue #6 in the next few days. I'll post the review separately.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:55 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Okay, here are my notes regarding the chronology of scenes from A:EMH 7-8, A 16, tie-in stories from the '60s, and other continuity implants (MARVELS, MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997) set in this time. I'm not sure about the JIM placements. Brackets note BTS appearances. 

Continued from subsequent post... 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (19p1-22p3) 
One day. According to OMITTA 1, this segment must occur between JIM 115 (1-x) and JIM 115 (x-xx). Thor swings by Avengers Mansion to tell Hank (incorrectly attired) and Jan he must leave for the Trial of the Gods. Thor leaves and Iron Man arrives for a meeting. Hawkeye subdues Jarvis in a scene that may be staged for recording security cameras. Green trees in New York. It must be June. 
Thor, Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS #16 (6p4-6p5) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (19-22). Iron Man, Giant-Man, and Wasp begin their meeting. Hank asks where Thor is (demonstrating short-term memory loss)! June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (22p4-22p6) 
The same day as A 16 (6p4-6p5). Wasp expresses a desire to lead a normal life to Hanks surprise. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp 

AVENGERS #16 (6p6-7p1) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (22p4-22p6). Iron Man, Giant-Man, and Wasp consider leaves of absence, then smoke enters the meeting room. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, [Hawkeye], [Edwin Jarvis] 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (23p1) 
The same day as A 16 (6-7). Hearing a cry from Jarvis, the Avengers dash out of the meeting room. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, [Hawkeye], [Edwin Jarvis] 

AVENGERS #16 (7p2-7p3) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (23p1). Iron Man finds and arrow and he, Hank, and Jan dash through the smoke. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, [Hawkeye], [Edwin Jarvis] 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (23p2) 
The same day as A 16 (7p2-7p3). The trio arrives at the scene of the disturbance. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, [Hawkeye], [Edwin Jarvis] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7 (1) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (23p2). Iron Man and Giant-Man see Jarvis tied up and Hawkeye gloats. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS #16 (7p4) 
The same day as A:EMH 7 (1). Iron Man recognizes Hawkeye and Wasp finally notices Jarvis through the smoke. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (23p3-23p4) 
The same day as A 16 (7p4). Hawkeye tells the trio to relax. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7 (2p1-2p2) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (23p3-23p4). Iron Man threatens Hawkeye. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Hawkeye, [Giant-Man], [Wasp], [Edwin Jarvis] 

AVENGERS #16 (7p5-8p3b1) 
The same day as A:EMH 7 (2p1-2p2). It is one week after A 16-FB end. Hawkeye explains that he wants to join the Avengers. 
June. 
Iron Man, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis, [Giant-Man], [Wasp] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7 (2p3) 
The same day as A 16 (7-8). Hawkeye makes his move. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS #16 (8p3b2-8p3b3) 
The same day as A:EMH 7 (2p3). Hawkeye gets Jarvis out of his chair. June. 
Iron Man, Hawkeye, [Giant-Man], [Wasp], [Edwin Jarvis] 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (22p5-22p6) 
The same day as A 16 (8p3). As he positions Jarvis, Hawkeye says he has something to prove. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS #16 (8p4) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (23p5-23p6). June. 
Hawkeye, [Iron Man], [Giant-Man], [Wasp], [Edwin Jarvis] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7 (2p4-2p5) 
The same day as A 16 (8p4). Hawkeye takes aim and arrows fly. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, [Edwin Jarvis] 

AVENGERS #16 (8p5) ~ MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (24p1) 
The same day as A:EMH 7 (2p4-2p5). Three arrows free the standing Jarvis of his bonds. June. 
Edwin Jarvis, [Iron Man], [Giant-Man], [Wasp], [Hawkeye] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7 (3p1-3p3) 
The same day as A 16 (8p5). Jarvis falls back into the chair after the arrows pass and the Avengers are impressed. Hank, who has grabbed Hawkeye, puts him down. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (24p2-24p3) 
The same day as A:EMH 7 (3p1-3p3). Hank and Jan marvel at Hawkeyes marksmanship. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7 (3p4-9) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (24p2-24p3). Still not believing Hawkeye, Iron Man demands to know the marksmans business and Clint reiterates his goal to join the team. Deeming the archer serious, Iron Man meets with Hank and Jan in private to discuss him. Hank brings up the idea of replacement members and the trio discuss turning the Avengers into a criminal rehabilitation program. Meanwhile, Hawkeye and Jarvis toast their performance with tea. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (24p4) 
The same day as A:EMH 7 (3-9). After emerging from the meeting, Iron Man tells Hawkeye hes come at the right time. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Hawkeye, [Giant-Man], [Wasp], [Edwin Jarvis] 

AVENGERS #16 (8p6) 
The same day as MH&L97 (24p4). The Avengers tell Hawkeye theyre sold. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, [Edwin Jarvis] 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (24p5) 
The same day as A 16 (8p6). Jarvis feigns disapproval and Iron Man repeats that hell get Hawkeye an Avengers Manual to study. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS #16 (9p1-9p4) 
The day after MH&L97 1 (24p5). Iron Man radios Namor and offers him membership, but Namor declines. June. 
Iron Man, Sub-Mariner, [Giant-Man], [Wasp], [Hawkeye] 

AVENGERS #16 (9p5-10) 
One day. In a Swiss chalet, Pietro and Wanda read a newspaper report that the Avengers are considering new members. They write a letter to express their interest in joining (but probably end up phoning). June. 
Quicksilver (as Pietro Maximoff), Scarlet Witch (as Wanda Maximoff) 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7  FB (13p2) 
One day. Given the time it must take for Pietro and Wanda to contact the Avengers and get to America by ship, it cannot be the same day as A 16 (9-10) as suggested in the narrative meanwhile in A 16. Iron Man, Giant-Man, and Wasp begin a press conference. It must be June 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, [Hawkeye] 

AVENGERS #16 (11p1-11p2) 
The same day as A:EMH 7-FB (13p2). Iron Man introduces Hawkeye and announces that he will be an Avenger. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Bill IV 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7  FB (13p3-13p5) 
The same day as A 16 (11p1-11p2). Iron Man continues the press conference. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Hawkeye, [Giant-Man], [Wasp] 

AVENGERS #16 (11p3-11p4) 
The same day as A:EMH 7-FB (13p3-13p5). It is days after A 16 (9p1-9p4). The Avengers finish their press conference. June. 
Iron Man, Hawkeye, [Giant-Man], [Wasp] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7  FB (22p4) 
The same day as A 16 (11p3-11p4). It is a week before A:EMH 7 (21-22). Hawkeye strikes a pose for the press photographers, as seen in this USA Now photo. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Hawkeye, [Wasp] 

AVENGERS #16 (11p5-13p3) 
The same day as A:EMH 7-FB (22p4). The Avengers welcome Hawkeye and retrieve the noon mail. At that very moment in the Bolivian jungle, Cap saves a man from a leopard and the man gives Rick and him a jeep ride to Caruca. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Rick Jones 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (25-30) 
The same day as A 16 (11-13). At Caruca, Cap and Rick catch a military plane. As they fly off, they talk about Rick being an Avenger. At Avengers Mansion, Hawkeye and Jarvis make up, although theres really no need. The Teen Brigade watches a TV news bulletin about the press conference and react badly. They get a message from Rick that hell be arriving at Kennedy Airport with Cap tomorrow, but they must be delayed for days. It must be June. 
Captain America, Hawkeye, Rick Jones, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS: EARTHS GREATEST HEROES #7 (13-15) 
The same day as MH&L97 (25-30). It is three days before A:EMH 7 (16-20). Murch has a cow about Hawkeyes joining the Avengers and Iron Man tells him off. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Special Agent Murch 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7 (16-20) 
One day, three days after A:EMH 7 (13-15). Pietro and Wanda meet Tony Stark and Murch in London. Murch interrogates them about their criminal past and tensions run high. Green trees in London. It must be June. 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark), Quicksilver (as Pietro Maximoff), Scarlet Witch (as Wanda Maximoff), Special Agent Murch 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7 (21-22) 
One day, a week after A:EMH 7-FB (22p4). Apparently after having trouble with the plane they took from Bolivia, Cap and Rick are in Costa Rica trying to get to an airport. They see a week old newspaper announcing Hawkeyes appointment to the Avengers. It must be June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (31-32) 
One day. Pietro and Wanda approach New York aboard the Queen Mary. It must be June. 
Quicksilver (as Pietro Maximoff), Scarlet Witch (as Wanda Maximoff) 

AVENGERS #16 (13p4-13p5) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (31-32). Tony Stark meets Pietro and Wanda at the dock and introduces himself again, perhaps for appearances in front of others. A:EMH 8 (1p1-1p2) show Pietro and Wanda arriving by plane; these panels must be considered non-canonical. June. 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark), Quicksilver (as Pietro Maximoff), Scarlet Witch (as Wanda Maximoff), Iron Man II (as Happy Hogan) 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (1p3-2) 
The same day as A 16 (13-15). It is six hours before A:EMH 8 (3). Stark introduces Wanda and Pietro to Happy and Pepper and to the press hes called together. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Iron Man II (as Happy Hogan), Pepper Potts 

AVENGERS #16 (13p6-14) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (1-2). Wanda and Pietro show off their costumes for the press and Pietro demonstrates his power. June. 
Iron Man, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Iron Man II (as Happy Hogan) 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (35-37) 
The same day as A 16 (13-14). Happy drives Stark and Wanda to Avengers Mansion while Pietro races them. On the way, Pietro saves May Parker and Mary Jane Watson from being struck by a car. Wanda fends off news reporters and Pietro races her and Stark to the mansion. Green trees in New York. It must be June. 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark), Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Edwin Jarvis, Iron Man II (as Happy Hogan) 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (3) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (35-37). It is six hours after A:EMH 8 (1-2). Jarvis serves coffee to Pietro and Wanda. It must be June. 
Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS #16 (15p1-15p2) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (3). Stark joins Wanda and Pietro as they drink their coffee. June. 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark), Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (38p1-38p2) 
The same day as A 16 (15p1-15p2). Stark leaves the room to get Iron Man. It must be June. 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark), Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (13p1-13p4) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (38p1-38p2). Hawkeye sees Pietro and Wanda and talks to Jarvis about them. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Edwin Jarvis 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (38p3) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (13p1-13p4). Hawkeye greets the seated Pietro and Wanda. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (13p5-13p7) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (38p3). Hawkeye comments on Wandas costume and accent. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (38p4) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (13p5-13p7). Hawkeye kisses Wandas hand. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (13p8) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (38p4). Pietro takes Hawkeye to task for his effrontery. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (39p1-39p2) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (13p8). Pietro takes a swing at Hawkeye. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (14) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (39p1-39p2). Wanda uses a hex to snap Hawkeyes bowstring and things simmer down. Pietro notes that he and Wanda have been fugitives for the past few months. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (39p3-40p4) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (14). Reporter Harris Hobbs sneaks into the room and Hawkeye gets rid of him. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Harris Hobbs 

AVENGERS #16 (15p3-15p4) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (38-40). Stark changes into his armor. June. 
Iron Man 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (40p5-40p6) 
The same day as A 16 (15p3-15p4). Iron Man summons Wanda, Pietro, and Clint to the meeting room. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (33p1-33p2) 
The same day as A 16 (13-14). Caps and Ricks plane approaches Idlewild Airport. It must be June. 
[Captain America], [Rick Jones] 

AVENGERS #16 (15p5) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (33p1-33p2). An Army pilot starts to land Caps plane. The reference is to La Guardia, not Idlewild. June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones, [General Curtiss] 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (33p3-34) 
The same day as A 16 (15p5). Cap and Rick get a sedan at the airport. It must be June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS #16 (15p6) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (33-34). Cap (in costume) drives Rick in the sedan. June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (4-5p4) 
The same day as A 16 (15p6). Rick and Cap approach Avengers Mansion, which is crawling with reporters. The dialog may be canonical, but the depiction of an SUV instead of a sedan, Rick driving instead of Cap, and Cap in civilian clothes contradict the original story. It must be June. 
Captain America (as Steve Rogers), Rick Jones 

AVENGERS #16 (16) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (4-5). Cap and Rick get out of the sedan and get past the crowd into the mansion. A:EMH 8 (5p5-6p2) show them sneaking in through a tunnel; these panels must be considered non-canonical. Green grass and trees in New York. June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (6p3-6p5) 
The same day as A 16 (16). Cap and Rick approach the Avengers meeting room. It must be June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (41p1) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (6p3-6p5). Iron Man calls the meeting to order. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

AVENGERS #16 (17p1) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (41p1). Cap and Rick are at the meeting room door when Wanda expresses her gratitude for membership. June. 
Captain America, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones, [Iron Man], [Giant-Man], [Wasp], [Hawkeye], [Quicksilver] 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (41p2-41p3) 
The same day as A 16 (17p1). Hank and Jan hear voices at the door as Cap and Rick peer in. Jarvis is in the hall. It must be June. 
Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Rick Jones, Edwin Jarvis, [Iron Man],[Hawkeye], [Quicksilver], [Scarlet Witch] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (6p6) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (41p2-41p3). Cap steps in the door. It must be June. 
Captain America, Giant-Man, [Iron Man], [Wasp], [Hawkeye], [Quicksilver], [Scarlet Witch], [Rick Jones], [Edwin Jarvis] 

AVENGERS #16 (17p2) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (6p6). Cap and Rick enter the room and the team reacts. Jarvis must slip around into the room BTS. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones, [Edwin Jarvis] 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (41p4) 
The same day as A 16 (17p2). More reaction to Caps return. It must be June. 
Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Rick Jones, [Iron Man], [Hawkeye], [Quicksilver], [Scarlet Witch], [Edwin Jarvis] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (7-8) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (41p4). The team continues to gush as Cap reacts to the new people at the meeting. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones, Edwin Jarvis 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (41p5) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (7-8). An enthusiastic Giant-Man picks up Cap. It must be June. 
Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones, [Iron Man], [Quicksilver], [Edwin Jarvis] 

AVENGERS #16 (17p3-17p4) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (41p2). Teammates tell Hank to put Cap down and after Cap recounts his adventure with Zemo, Iron Man introduces the three new members to Cap. Jarvis probably leaves the room BTS at this point. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones, [Edwin Jarvis] 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (42p1-42p3) 
The same day as A 16 (17p3-17p4). Cap welcomes the new members. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS #16 (17p5) ~ MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (42p4) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (42p1-42p3). Iron Man tells Cap that he, Hank, and Jan are leaving the Avengers. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS #16 (18p1-18p3) 
The same day as A 16 (17p5). Cap reacts to the news and villains speculate on the Avengers future. June. 
Iron Man, Captain America, Rick Jones, Enchantress, Kang, Executioner, Mole Man, Immortus, [Giant-Man], [Wasp], [Hawkeye], [Quicksilver], [Scarlet Witch] 

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #115 (end) 
It must be same day as A 16 (18p1-18p3). June. 
Thor, 

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #116 (beginning) 
The same day as JIM 115 end. It is days after JIM 115 beg? and weeks after FF 39 beg. June. 
Thor, Odin, Loki, Jane Foster, Executioner, Enchantress, Balder, Yagg, Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Rick Jones, Daredevil, Wizard, Trapster, Sandman, Medusa, Balder, [Hawkeye], [Quicksilver], [Scarlet Witch] 

AVENGERS #280  FB (8p3-8p8) 
The same day as JIM 116 beg. Cap tells Jarvis that Iron Man, Hank, and Jan are being replaced with Clint, Wanda, and Pietro (whose costume is incorrectly colored blue). Jarvis feigns an objection to Hawkeye. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Edwin Jarvis, [Rick Jones] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (9) 
The same day as A 280-FB (8p3-8p8). Cap meets privately with Iron Man, Hank, and Jan. Cap apologizes for running off to deal with Zemo, Hank and Jan tell Cap their reason for leaving, and Iron Man notes Thors absence. A:EMH 8 (10p1-10p3) show Iron Man announcing his departure to Cap, Hank, and Jan for the first time, but this contradicts established events and cannot be canonical. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (10p4-12) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (9). The Avengers hand over the reigns of leadership to Cap. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (15-16) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (10-12). Cap decides to lead the new team. It must be June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (42p5-45p5) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (15-16). As the Avengers prepare for their press conference, Cap tells Iron Man he accepts the mantle of leadership. Hank and Jan ponder their decision. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Rick Jones, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS #16 (18p4-18p6) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (42-45). Iron Man tells the press about the new lineup. June. 
Iron Man 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (46p1-47p2) 
The same day as A 16 (18p4-18p6). The new recruits, Rick, and the Teen Brigade react to the announcement. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS #16 (19p1-20p1) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (46-47). Iron Man re-enters the mansion, wishes the new team well, and advises them to find the Hulk. Iron Man enters a conference room where Hank and Jan wait. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (17-18p4) 
The same day as A 16 (19-20). Iron Man, Hank, and Jan express their sentiments to each other. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp 

AVENGERS #16 (20p2) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (17-18). Iron Man, Hank, and Wasp say their goodbyes. June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (18p5-19) 
The same day as A 16 (20p2). Iron Man flies off (to change to Stark) and Hank and Jan kiss. It must be June. 
Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp 

AVENGERS #16 (20p3-20p4) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (18-19). Giant-Man and Wasp walk away from the mansion while Happy drives Stark away. June. 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark), Giant-Man, Wasp, Iron Man III (as Happy Hogan) 

MARVELS #2 (25p3) 
The same day as A 16 (20p3-20p4). Before the press, Cap confirms the news of the replacement team. June. 
Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Phil Sheldon, [Rick Jones] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8  FB (21p7-22p2) 
The same day as MV 2 (25p3). In a taped TV segment, Cap tells the viewing public that he wont let them down. It must be June. 
Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, [Rick Jones] 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (47p3-47p5) 
The same day as A:EMH 8-FB (21-22). The new team stand before the media with Rick. It must be June. 
Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS #16 (20p5) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (47p3-47p5). It is the same day as DD 7 end and a few years after TBDR -1. The new lineup stands before the press as Cap shouts Avengers Assemble! June. 
Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, [Rick Jones] 

THUNDERBOLTS #9  FB (6-10p3) 
The same day as A 16 (20p5). It is some months after UX 4. The press conference turns sour as people in the crowd protest the inclusion of villains on the Avengers roster. The new team retreats inside the mansion and Rick realizes there isnt room for him. It must be June. 
Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (20) 
The same day as TB 9-FB (6-10). Inside the mansion, Cap tells his three new teammates that its time to get started. It must be June. 
Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch 

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #116 (end) 
The same day as A:EMH 8 (20). June. 
Thor, Loki, Odin 

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #117 (beginning) 
The same day as JIM 116 end. June. 
Thor, Balder, Jane Foster, Enchantress, Executioner 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #8 (21-22) 
The same night as A:EMH 8 (20). Stark and Murch discuss administrative issues regarding the new team as Tony sees a taped TV news report on the press conference; nothing is mentioned of the event going sour. It must be June.
_________________
Paul B.

Last edited by Paul Bourcier on Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:34 pm    
By jephyork
Director

This all looks great, Paul. 

Any chance of moving JIM #116 around so that the single panel of Cap meeting with the original Avengers fits with the private meeting he had with them in EMH #8 p.9? As per Marvel Saga #19 pp.26-27?  

-Jeph!

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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:45 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Aren't there individual scenes in Children of the Atom that don't contradict canon? 

How about Adventures of Captain America, or Man Without Fear? 


watching: buffy

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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:21 pm    
By Kevin W.
Director


Exactly. I thought our rule had been in the past to just throw out a whole series (or miniseries) when it contradicted prior material. Unless we're talking about revising the rule. 

It does seem a shame to throw out an entire miniseries because of a few scenes though.
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:54 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

To me, it just doesn't make sense to go through a story, counting up individual scenes and saying, "Canon, canon, not canon, canon, not canon, not canon, canon..." 

Of course, anyone's perfectly free to look at it otherwise, and add individual scenes to their own chronologies. 


watching: buffy

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:51 am    
By John Simons

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (1-10) 
The paparazzi ruin a romantic restaurant dinner for Hank and Jan. It must be June. 
<<<

If you want to talk about Continuity flubs, this comic also has its share. For instance, in the scene mentioned above Hank and Jan are in their civilian clothes when they are chased down. In established continuity Hank and Jan's secret IDs didn't become public knowledge until quite sometime after the events of A 16.
_________________
"Jessica, whatever you do...don't contradict the continuity! They'll eat you alive! They'll. Eat. You. Alive!"

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:57 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

Administrator wrote: 
>>>
Aren't there individual scenes in Children of the Atom that don't contradict canon? 
<<<

CHILDREN OF THE ATOM is in a different category altogether. It completely ignores the comparable X-Men stories and puts something utterly different in their place. Since it's never been referred to since (and Marvel's own official sources, such as the Handbook, don't acknowledge it as valid), X:COTA isn't canon. (This wasn't simply an error on Casey's part; X:COTA is full of throwaway references to the original stories, so he was obviously aware of them. For example, the Beast's football team plays against a team called the Conquistadors, evidently named after El Conquistador, the villain from his original origin story.) 

A:EMH, on the other hand, is very obviously based around the early issues of AVENGERS and follows the course of events fairly closely. Those deviations that exist are very minor in the context of the plot as a whole, and easily within the margin of artistic licence.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:13 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Any chance of moving JIM #116 around so that the single panel of Cap meeting with the original Avengers fits with the private meeting he had with them in EMH #8 p.9? As per Marvel Saga #19 pp.26-27? 
<<<


I suppose, but I'd need to have JIM 116 to determine exactly where scenes from that comic fit.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:00 am    
By jephyork
Director

If you have Marvel Saga #19, the single panel appearance of the Avengers in JIM #116 is reprinted as panel 2 of p.27. Marvel Saga #19 also places this panel in context between scenes of Avengers #16. 

As for the "individual scenes that do / don't contradict canon" bit -- there have been many comics that, while adding new scenes to past events, incorrectly depict the events themselves. And we've considered them canon. 

Yes, there are some bits in EMH #5-8 that minorly contradict canon (Cap driving a different kind of car? Wearing civilian clothes rather than his uniform? Wanda and Pietro arriving by boat instead of plane? Horrors!), but I'd consider those "continuity errors" rather than "non-canon scenes". 

It's the big things, the huge plot deviations (how was Rick Jones kidnapped again?) that I'm concerned about. Not "did Cap land his plane at La Guardia or Idelwild?" 

So -- purely in terms of gross plot deviation, how does EMH #1-8 stack up to A #1-16? 

-Jeph!

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:56 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
So -- purely in terms of gross plot deviation, how does EMH #1-8 stack up to A #1-16? 
<<<

Mind you, I haven't compared A:EMH 6 to A 15 in detail yet, but IIRC the only gross plot deviation in the entire A:EMH series is the kidnapping of Rick Jones while Jan is still in the hospital right after A 14 as opposed to his original kidnapping at a later point in time, in A 15. 

Canonical Avengers chronology goes like this (according to the Official Marvel Index to the Avengers, vol. 1 #1): 
A 14 
FF 36 (The Avengers, including a healed Wasp, appear) 
TOS 64 
TTA 65 (Giant-Man gets new costume) 
ST 135 
CA 221 (The Avengers appear in this Rick Jones story) 
TOS 65 
TTA 66 (another Giant-Man/Wasp story) 
A 15 (Rick Jones kidnapped) 

New Avengers chronology, as per A:EMH, seems to ignore all the appearances between A 14 and 15. The word that the Wasp will recover reaches Avengers Mansion moments before Zemo attacks and takes Rick. As Jarvis recovers from the attack, Cap encounters the Executioner and the Enchantress on his way to the Mansion (as shown in A 15 too). When Cap arrives at the Mansion, he finds out about Rick's abduction and takes off after Zemo and we launch into that Masters of Evil storyline originally presented in A 15-16. Interestingly, Giant-Man shows up in the A:EMH version of that storyline in the new costume he donned in TTA 65! 

One way around all this is to pretend that the good news about the Wasp's recovery seen at the end of A:EMH 5 is a reference to some unpublished injury (subsequent to her recovery from the gunshot wound of A 14). Then we'd still need to deal with the discrepancies in the way Rick was kidnapped: 
Originally in front of the whole team; retcon in front of Jarvis only 
Cap originally deducing that Zemo was behind the kidnapping; the retconned team knowing from an eyewitness that Zemo was involved 

And we'd need to reconcile the way in which Cap took off after Rick: 
Originally, taking off during an Avengers battle with the Masters of Evil; 
Retcon -- walking off in Avengers Mansion 

If we declared the whole retconned kidnapping and Cap's subsequent departure as non-canonical, we'd have to scrap eight whole pages (the last two of A:EMH 5 and the first six of A:EMH 6), as opposed to a few panels here and there. 

One more point: please note that the sequencing of events differs between the original Avengers issues and A:EMH's last issues. I was forced to reorganize scenes from A:EMH to follow the original sequencing. I'm not particularly bothered by chopping up scenes from A:EMH, although others might be. 

And a comment: it seems to me that Joe Casey intended to respect the continuity of early Avengers issues in writing A:EMH; he's certainly familiar with a lot of the content. I just don't know why he couldn't be bothered to do a better job with the continuity. He easily could have written a compelling tale that adhered to the details of the original comics. There really was no need to retcon elements of storyline for the sake of enriching our understanding of early Avengers history. 

That having been said, I'm interested in knowing where folks stand on the canonicity of this series... 
1) if nothing in this series is ever referenced in a canonical story 
2) if details from this series are ever referenced in a canonical story, but with no specific editorial reference to A:EMH 
3) if details from this series are ever referenced in a canonical story with specific editorial reference to A:EMH 

Why do I get the feeling that Special Agent Murch will crop up someday? 
_________________
Paul B.

Last edited by Paul Bourcier on Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:00 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
If you have Marvel Saga #19, the single panel appearance of the Avengers in JIM #116 is reprinted as panel 2 of p.27.  
<<<

I do have Saga #19 and see the panel to which you refer. What page/panel of JIM 116 is this? And from the look of Saga #19, it seems that panels just before and after that one Avengers panel in JIM 116 belong with it in the overall sequencing of events. But I'd need more details on page/panel ranges...in other words, how to carve up JIM 116 into parts and distribute them among entries in the chronology I'm presenting.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:28 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Yes, there are some bits in EMH #5-8 that minorly contradict canon (Cap driving a different kind of car? Wearing civilian clothes rather than his uniform? Wanda and Pietro arriving by boat instead of plane? Horrors!), but I'd consider those "continuity errors" rather than "non-canon scenes". 
<<<

Those wouldn't bother me. 


jephyork wrote: 
>>>
It's the big things, the huge plot deviations (how was Rick Jones kidnapped again?) that I'm concerned about. 
<<<

That one probably would. 


watching: newsnight

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:01 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Canonical Avengers chronology goes like this (according to the Official Marvel Index to the Avengers, vol. 1 #1): 
A 14 
FF 36 (The Avengers, including a healed Wasp, appear) 
TOS 64 
TTA 65 (Giant-Man gets new costume) 
ST 135 
CA 221 (The Avengers appear in this Rick Jones story) 
TOS 65 
TTA 66 (another Giant-Man/Wasp story) 
A 15 (Rick Jones kidnapped) 

New Avengers chronology, as per A:EMH, seems to ignore all the appearances between A 14 and 15. 
<<<

We have a precedent for this. The question before us is: do these stories listed between A 14 and A 15 have to occur where the Index has placed them, or are they where they are, simply because they have to go somewhere? 

If the former, we have a dilemma, and if it can't be untangled, I don't see how A:EMH gets in. If the latter, then the chronologies are adapted to reflect newly available information, something the Index itself was perfectly willing to do, in subsequent editions. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Then we'd still need to deal with the discrepancies in the way Rick was kidnapped: 
Originally in front of the whole team; retcon in front of Jarvis only 
Cap originally deducing that Zemo was behind the kidnapping; the retconned team knowing from an eyewitness that Zemo was involved 

And we'd need to reconcile the way in which Cap took off after Rick: 
Originally, taking off during an Avengers battle with the Masters of Evil; 
Retcon -- walking off in Avengers Mansion 
<<< 

I suspect this is largely a matter of personal taste. Everyone will have different things in that list that they can swallow, or not. For me personally, the last one's a pretty significant difference. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
If we declared the whole retconned kidnapping and Cap's subsequent departure as non-canonical, we'd have to scrap eight whole pages (the last two of A:EMH 5 and the first six of A:EMH 6), as opposed to a few panels here and there. 
<<<

And see, here's where I'm not quite clear, as Paul and Jeph seem to be saying two different things. If it's simply a case of the minor details are changed, or updated, then who cares? But if we end up having to throw out scenes as not canon, then I don't understand how the book is canon. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
One more point: please note that the sequencing of events differs between the original Avengers issues and A:EMH's last issues. I was forced to reorganize scenes from A:EMH to follow the original sequencing. I'm not particularly bothered by chopping up scenes from A:EMH, although others might be. 
<<<

I wouldn't say that it doesn't bother me. It does bother me, but I'm willing to do it, if that's the only way to save a story. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
That having been said, I'm interested in knowing where folks stand on the canonicity of this series... 
1) if nothing in this series is ever referenced in a canonical story 
2) if details from this series are ever referenced in a canonical story, but with no specific editorial reference to A:EMH 
3) if details from this series are ever referenced in a canonical story with specific editorial reference to A:EMH 
<<<

Well, here's my opinion. Determine the canonicity first. If we do that, then 1 and 2 are irrelevant, and even 3 is irrelevant, if A:EMH is canon. If A:EMH is not canon, then 3 can--depending on the specific editorial reference--raise some philosophical questions. I, personally, would prefer not to answer that question as a hypothetical, and wait for the situation to arise. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Why do I get the feeling that Special Agent Murch will crop up someday? <<<

If we somehow reached the conclusion that A:EMH is not canon, then someday we'll meet Special Agent Murch, for the very first time. 


watching: lou dobbs

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:27 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Okay, here's a sequencing of events for A 15 and A:EMH 6... 

AVENGERS #15 (1-15) 
One day, shortly after ST 135. According to OMITTA 1, this story occurs after TOS 65 and TTA 66. After an Avengers meeting, Cap runs into the Enchantress and the Executioner and reports back to his teammates. Zemos men kidnap Rick and take him to Bolivia in a plane. The Masters of Evil attack and Cap takes off in an Avengers jet to save Rick and battle Zemo. The details of Ricks kidnaping and Caps departure for Bolivia are so different in A:EMH 5 (21-22) and A:EMH 6 (1-5) that those scenes must be non-canonical. June. 
Thor, Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Captain America, Rick Jones, Enchantress, Executioner, Melter, Black Knight III, [Baron Zemo] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #6 (7-8) 
The same day as A 15 (1-15). Jarvis seeks out Hawkeye and offers to help him. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Edwin Jarvis 

AVENGERS #15 (16-19p2) 
The same day as A:EMH 6 (7-8). After mere minutes of air travel, Cap reaches Bolivia, and as Zemos men fire at his plane, the rocket fire frees Rick from his cage. Meanwhile, the Avengers battle the Masters of Evil in New York. Caps landing in Bolivia in A:EMH 6 (15-16p1) differs enough to be non-canonical. June. 
Thor, Iron Man, Giant-Man, Captain America, Rick Jones, Enchantress, Executioner, Melter, Black Knight III, Baron Zemo 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #6 (16p2-16p3) 
The same day as A 15 (16-19). Cap asks the battered Rick if he can hear him. It must be June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS #15 (19p3-19p5) 
The same day as A:EMH 6 (16p2-16p3). Cap lands by Rick in a parachute and tends to him. Zemo and his men rush toward the site. June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #6 (16p4-17) 
The same day as A 15 (19p3-19p5). Zemo and his men reach the spot where Cap and Rick are. It must be June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones, Baron Zemo, [Goliath III (as Erik Josten)] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #6 (19-21p1) 
The same day as A 15 (16-17). Cap engages Zemos men in battle. It must be June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones, Baron Zemo, [Goliath III (as Erik Josten)] 

AVENGERS #15 (19p6-20p4) 
The same day as A:EMH 6 (19-21). Cap separates Zemo from his men and Zemo is blinded by the reflection off Caps shield. June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones, Baron Zemo, [Goliath III (as Erik Josten)] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #6 (21p2) 
The same day as A 15 (19-20). Cap throws his shield at Zemos gun as he fires. It must be June. 
Baron Zemo, [Captain America], [Rick Jones] 

AVENGERS #15 (20p5) 
The same day as A:EMH 6 (21p2). Zemos gun fires upward. June. 
Baron Zemo, [Captain America], [Rick Jones] 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #6 (21p3-23) 
The same day as A 15 (20p5). The ray from the gun causes a rockslide that showers down on Cap, Rick, and Zemo. It must be June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones, Baron Zemo 
AVENGERS #15 (20p6-20p8) 
The same day as A:EMH 6 (21-23). Cap and Rick escape the rockslide, but Zemo is buried. June. 
Captain America, Rick Jones, Baron Zemo 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #7 (10-12) 
The same night as A 15 (20p6-20p8). As he looks at Zemos buried corpse, Cap ponders his revenge. He carries the injured Rick from the scene. Full moon. 
Captain America, Rick Jones, Baron Zemo 

AVENGERS #16 (1-6p3) 
The same day as A 15. According to OMITTA 1, this segment occurs before JIM 114. The Avengers capture the Melter and the Black Knight, but the Enchantress and the Executioner escape. Cap and Rick bury Zemo in a grave and Cap fights Zemos men. June. 
Thor, Iron Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Enchantress, Executioner, Black Knight III, Melter, Captain America, Rick Jones, Baron Zemo, Goliath III (as Erik Josten) 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (1-10) 
One day, shortly after A 16 (1-6). The Teen Brigade revel in a story about the Avengers and wonder how Rick is doing. Cap and a recovered Rick deal with quicksand and a snake in the Bolivian jungle. Cap tells Rick he can never be an Avenger. The paparazzi ruin a romantic restaurant dinner for Hank and Jan. It must be June. 
Giant-Man, Wasp (as Janet Van Dyne), Captain America, Rick Jones, Buddy 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1  FB (13p2-13p3) 
One day. Tony Stark is at work at Stark Industries. 
Iron Man (as Tony Stark), Pepper Potts 

TALES OF SUSPENSE #66 (2-12p7) 
One day. This story cannot occur the same day as FF 41 beg, nor can it occur after A 16 end, as noted in OMITTA 1, given the story in MH&L97 1. According to the MCP, this story occurs before ST 138. June. 
Iron Man, Pepper Potts, Iron Man II (as Happy Hogan), Attuma, Harrington Byrd 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (11-13) 
The same day as TOS 66 (2-12). Iron Man emerges from the ocean and walks down the beach, thinking about the fate of the Avengers. It must be June. 
Iron Man 

TALES OF SUSPENSE #66 (12p8-12p10) 
The same day as MH&L97 1 (11-13). June. 
Iron Man, Pepper Potts, Harrington Byrd 

AVENGERS #16  FB (8p1-8p2) 
One day, one week before A 16 (7-8). Black Widow is shot for her treason and Hawkeye finds her. June. 
Hawkeye, Black Widow II 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (14-16) 
The same day as A 16-FB (8p1-8p2). Hawkeye rushes Natasha to the hospital and is forced to run off when a cop tries to arrest him. That night, as he secretly checks in on Natasha, Hawkeye hears a radio report about the Avengers possibly disbanding and Clint gets the idea to join the team. Hawkeye notes that its eighty degrees. It must be June. 
Hawkeye, Black Widow II, Jane Foster 

MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (17-18) 
One day. In the Balkans (where its cold in the mountains), Magneto catches up to the fleeing Wanda and Pietro, but they escape him. It must be June. 
Quicksilver (as Pietro Maximoff), Scarlet Witch (as Wanda Maximoff), Magneto 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #6 (18) 
One day, probably after MH&L97 1 (17-18). Now in Bremen, Germany, Pietro and Wanda hear TV news reports about a launch from Cape Canaveral by the Fantastic Four and about speculation of Avengers quitting. Pietro notes that its been weeks since hes had proper sleep. It must be June. 
Quicksilver (as Pietro Maximoff), Scarlet Witch (as Wanda Maximoff) 

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #114 (1st story) 
(one day; shortly after Av 16 pg. 1-6; June) 
Thor, Loki, Absorbing Man, Balder, Jane Foster, Harris Hobbs 

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #115 (1st story: beginning) 
(same day as JIM 114 1st; June) 
Thor, Loki, Absorbing Man, Odin, Jane Foster, Harris Hobbs 

MARVELS #2 (page 25, panel 2) 
(same day as JIM 115 1st beg; must be June) 
Phil Sheldon, Harris Hobbs 

AVENGERS: EARTHS MIGHTIEST HEROES #6 (9-14) 
One night. At Avengers Mansion, Thor tells Iron Man that he must take a leave of absence, effective immediately, to attend the Trial of the Gods. Iron Man notes Caps abrupt departure from the team. Thor shows Shellhead that his claim to godhood is genuine. It must be June. 
Thor, Iron Man 

Then pick up where my previous post (now edited) begins, with MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1 (19p1-22p3).
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:32 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
We have a precedent for this. The question before us is: do these stories listed between A 14 and A 15 have to occur where the Index has placed them, or are they where they are, simply because they have to go somewhere?  
<<<

Hank's and Jan's appearances in TTA 65 and 66 must occur between A 14 and 15. Hank's change of costume is a big clue there.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:19 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Administrator wrote: 
>>>
Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
If we declared the whole retconned kidnapping and Cap's subsequent departure as non-canonical, we'd have to scrap eight whole pages (the last two of A:EMH 5 and the first six of A:EMH 6), as opposed to a few panels here and there. 
<<<

And see, here's where I'm not quite clear, as Paul and Jeph seem to be saying two different things. 
<<<

Paul and Jeph ARE saying two different things. Paul still seems to be advocating throwing out individual scenes -- something I can't get behind. I'm with the Admin on this one -- ignore the little things as "continuity errors", rationalize the big stuff, with a crowbar if you have to ... but if you have to throw out an entire scene wholesale, you should probably throw out the entire series. 

So, what did Paul list as problems? 

Quote: 
>>>
we'd still need to deal with the discrepancies in the way Rick was kidnapped: 
Originally in front of the whole team; retcon in front of Jarvis only 
Cap originally deducing that Zemo was behind the kidnapping; the retconned team knowing from an eyewitness that Zemo was involved 
<<<

I'd have to look at both issues to think of ways around this, but: 


Quote: 
>>>
we'd need to reconcile the way in which Cap took off after Rick: 
Originally, taking off during an Avengers battle with the Masters of Evil; 
Retcon -- walking off in Avengers Mansion 
<<<

For this one, how about -- Cap walked off, but didn't get far before his Avengers loyalty drew him back (or, Iron Man flew after him and talked him out of it, etc etc. -- basically, yes, he did he walk off in Avengers Mansion, but changed his mind for some reason just after the scene ended.) Then he changed his mind AGAIN and ran off in the middle of a battle. 

We've used the old "character must have changed their mind off-panel" excuse before -- and it seems very applicable here. 

As for: 

Quote: 
>>>
The word that the Wasp will recover reaches Avengers Mansion moments before Zemo attacks and takes Rick. 
<<<

Is there any way to stick a break of days or weeks in-between the panel where Rick and Jarvis receive this news, and the panel where Zemo attacks? Alternately, can we use this time-lapse to fix one of the plot deviations -- and presume that Zemo attempted to kidnap Rick once, shortly after A #14 -- as seen in EMH #5 -- but failed (off-panel)? And tried again weeks later (as seen in A #15), under different circumstances, and succeeded? 

Beats me, man. There are many creative ways around things like this, and most of them don't involve excising individual scenes and trying to label them "non-canon"... 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:39 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
There are many creative ways around things like this, and most of them don't involve excising individual scenes and trying to label them "non-canon"...  
<<<

I'm shooting from the hip on this one, daring not to pull the relevant issues out again, but here's something creative... 

Before dawn on the morning after Wasp's pulling through surgery (from A 14), Rick and Jarvis learn of the good news about her. They're attacked by Zemo and Rick is abducted. Thor and Iron Man arrive at the mansion and assist the injured Jarvis. They get a call from Cap, who is on his way to the mansion. He's just encountered the Enchantress and the Executioner but they get away. When Cap arrives at the mansion, he hears about Rick's kidnapping and storms out to get Zemo. Iron Man muses about Cap's leaving with Jarvis. But then, Cap finds Rick, who has somehow escaped from his captor. The leads on Zemo and the Masters of Evil grow cold and time passes. The stories in all those intervening comics occur, including the Wasp making a full recovery and Giant-Man getting a revised costume. Then comes A 15...After the Avengers adjourn a meeting, Cap encounters Amora and Skurge again. And they get away...again. Cap reconvenes the group to follow up on this encounter. Then Zemo's men attack and Rick is whisked away by plane, with the Wasp a temporary stowaway. The Masters of Evil enter the scene and battle the Avengers. Cap can't let this go; he takes off with the Avengers' jet and minutes later, he's in Bolivia. Et cetera, et cetera. 

I'm not sure how the dialogue in A and A:EMH might support such a plot stretch, but, hey, it's a idea. I've been able to make a number of small adjustments that are awkward, but this is a big adjustment. While most of us may be willing to ignore continuity glitches such as clothing discrepancies, this may be too much. 

And to make A:EMH work into canonical continuity, you'd still have to rearrange the order of some scenes from A:EMH...something that at least our Administrator is loathe to do. 

So, is A:EMH too much of a force-fit? Shall we pitch it? Is this series akin to PROFESSOR X & THE X-MEN? If so, can't we salvage some issues (those in which continuity isn't disturbed)? Hey, didn't we salvage issue #4 of PXX, which spotlighted Wanda and Pietro? 

And how about MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:59 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
And to make A:EMH work into canonical continuity, you'd still have to rearrange the order of some scenes from A:EMH...something that at least our Administrator is loathe to do. 
<<<

Yeah, but again, I'm willing to do so, if that's the only way to save a book. I did it once with an issue of Hulk. Throwing a Hulk issue out of canon wasn't an option. 


Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Hey, didn't we salvage issue #4 of PXX, which spotlighted Wanda and Pietro? 
<<<

No. Once again, that was a mistake. It needs to be removed, and is being removed, with this week's update. I added PXX 4. It was the only issue I had, and I didn't know at the time that the other issues were clearly not canon. It never should have been here. 


watching: syracuse vs. conn

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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:58 am    
By jephyork
Director

Quote: 
>>>
I've been able to make a number of small adjustments that are awkward, but this is a big adjustment. While most of us may be willing to ignore continuity glitches such as clothing discrepancies, this may be too much. 
<<<

I didn't hear anyone poo-pooing this. Have you looked into it more to see how well it might work? 


Quote: 
>>>
to make A:EMH work into canonical continuity, you'd still have to rearrange the order of some scenes from A:EMH...something that at least our Administrator is loathe to do. 
<<<

Well, as Russ said above, he's willing to do it in extreme circumstances. Which scenes need to be re-arranged, by the way? 


Quote: 
>>>
And how about MARVEL HEROES & LEGENDS 1997 #1? 
<<<

What about it? You've got pages occuring out-of-order in that story too -- your write-up has p.33 occuring between pp.40-41. Are you asking if, because of this problem, *it* should be ruled non-canon too? Well, as far as I know it made it into the MCP, so... 

I don't think the book has been closed on EMH yet, Paul. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:05 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Well, as Russ said above, he's willing to do it in extreme circumstances. Which scenes need to be re-arranged, by the way? 
<<<


Take a close look at the order of page/panel ranges in my posts. There are scenes in A:EMH I've had to reshuffle to conform to original story order in issues of A. 


Quote: 
>>>
I didn't hear anyone poo-pooing this. Have you looked into it more to see how well it might work?  
<<<

Nope. I offered a rather outlandish rendition of events to make the whole Rick kidnaping/Cap leaving thing work in both A and A:EMH, but no one's commented on that or offered another explanation. 

After compiling detailed sequences of scenes in several threads on this Board, I'm sitting back waiting for more reaction. I think I've done all I can at the moment. My conclusion: we need to devise some farfetched plot contrivances or delete selected scenes to make the series work (assuming we're willing to disregard small discrepancies, which, given the canonicity of M/H&L'97, we are).
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:03 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

It looks like we never really resolved this, and since it's come up again in the thread about "First Family," I thought I'd pick up on this thread. 

A while back, I posted a number of messages about how to place scenes from every issue of A:EMH in relation to early issues of Avengers (and then Marvel Heroes & Legends crept in there too). Things were going well until the end of A:EMH 5, then the sequencing and details of scenes between the titles started to fall apart. Most folks wanted to try to salvage A:EMH somehow, and most folks rejected the premise of accepting some scenes as canonical and others as non-canonical. So the question remains: how do we reconcile the differences so that a logical MCP chronology will result? Is there a logical reading order that results from accepting every scene from A:EMH and Avengers?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:20 am    
By Col_Fury

All right. 

Earth's Mightiest Heroes told stories set around pre-existing stories. There are no straight re-tellings, like in Professor X & the X-Men, so that's not the case here.(some of A: EMH look very close to re-tellings, though...) By referencing so many Silver Age stories, it seems to me that the creator's intent is that Earth's Mightiest Heroes is intended to be canon. By publishing a second volume, it would seem to me that the editorial intent is the same. 

Clothing discrepancies, etc, don't bother me in the slightest. Call it artistic license, updating, whatever. To me, they don't matter. 

The problem, as I understand it, is Rick Jones' abduction... Right? 

I'm determined to finally sit down and read the relevant Avengers and Earth's Mightiest together and see if I can find a solution for Rick's abduction. If I can come up with something, we can find a spot for the other appearances to go.(FF, CA, ST, etc) 

My question is, are the only issues that have to occur between A 14 & 15 TTA 65 & 66? If needed, can the other appearances be moved before or after? Be warned, I don't own TTA 65 & 66...
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:39 am    
By Col_Fury

Theres already some screwy stuff going on in Avengers 15 & 16, regarding Steve in South America and the Avengers in New York. Were led to believe that the two plots are happening concurrently,(Steve flies at many times the speed of sound and arrives in South America within minutes of leaving New York) but it doesnt affect individual character chronologies if they arent concurrent. If we unhook pages from A: EMH, they dont even need to be labeled as FlashBacks. Theyre just shown to us out of sequence. 

With that in mind, howsabout this? 

Avengers #14 pg1 
The Avengers race across town to get the injured Wasp to the hospital. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #5 pg15 
Hank kicks open the hospital doors and calls for a doctor as the other Avengers make room. 

Avengers #14 pg2-pg20pn4 
X-Rays of Jan are taken, and a specialist, Dr. Svenson, is needed. However, Dr. Svenson has been taken captive by aliens, so the Avengers go about retrieving him. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #5 pg16-pg20pn4 
As Dr. Svenson operates on Jan, Tony and Steve chat about the future and Thor attempts to console Hank. Dr. Svenson enters the room 

Avengers #14 pg20pn5 
and announces the operation is over. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #5 pg20pn5 
Hanks asks whats going on with Jan, and Dr. Svenson begins to answer. 

Avengers #14 pg20pn6 
Hank asks again. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #5 pg20pn6 
Dr. Svenson answers 

Avengers #14 pg20pn7 
and repeats himself, before anyone else can interrupt him again. 

*** 

Tales to Astonish! #65 & 66 
Hank gets a new uniform. 

*** 

Avengers #15 pg1-pg4pn2 
The Avengers adjourn a meeting and go their separate ways. Meanwhile, Baron Zemo plots their doom! 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #5 pg21-pg22 
Jarvis and Rick are attacked by Baron Zemo. 

Avengers #15 pg4pn3-pg5 
Steve writes a letter to Col. Fury inquiring about counter-espionage work for the Army. As he drops it in the mail box he sees the Enchantress and Executioner drive by in a car, so he calls an emergency meeting of the Avengers. 

BTS: On his way, Steve calls Fury to get info on the duo. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #6 pg1-pg6 
The Avengers receive Steves message about the Enchantress and Executioner, and when Steve arrives Tony tells him about Ricks abduction. Steve mentions he already spoke with Col. Fury of the CIA, who told him that Zemo is based somewhere in South America. Steve walks out, and Tony follows after speaking with Jarvis. 

(unseen: Ricks on the front lawn, tied and gagged! Man, Zemos really screwing with their heads! They bring him inside) 

Avengers #15 pg6-pg15 
As Enchantress & Executioner prepare, the meeting resumes, and Steve explains the reason he called it in the first place. Rick is then abducted(again) and the Avengers get into a fight with the Masters of Evil. During the fight Steve flies off to Bolivia. 

Avengers #15pg17-pg19pn2 
The Avengers/Masters of Evil fight comes to a stand-off as the Avengers consider collateral damage. 

Avengers #16 pg1-pg4 
The Avengers capture the Black Knight and Melter, but Enchantress and Executioner escape. 

*** 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #6 pg7-pg8 
Jarvis visits Hawkeye. 

*** 

Avengers #15 pg16 
When Steve arrives in Bolivia, he shoots the dome-prison Rick is in. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #6 pg15-pg16pn3 
Steve has crashed the plane, and steals into Zemos compound and finds Rick now tied up. 

Avengers #15 pg19pn3-pg19pn4 
Steve asks Rick if hes all right. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #6 pg16pn4-pg17 
Rick tries to tell Steve they only tortured him and didnt ask any questions as Zemo arrives and taunts them. 

Avengers #15 pg19pn5-pg20pn4 
Zemo attacks and Steve blinds Zemo with glare from his shield. 

Avengers; Earths Mightiest Heroes #6 pg19-pg20pn2 
While Zemo is distracted, Steve attacks. After a brawl, Steve throws his shield at Zemo, distracting him and making him fire upwards. 

Avengers #15 pg20pn5 
With his hand to his face, Zemo fires and tells him to stay back. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #6 pg20pn3-pg22 
Zemos wild shot causes an avalanche. 

Avengers #15 pg20pn6-pg20pn8 
Cap uses his shield to protect himself and Rick. When the rubble clears, they discover Zemos corpse. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #7 pg10-pg12 
Rick crawls on a rock as Steve looks at Zemos corpse. Rick collapses and Steve carries him away from Zemo. 

Avengers #16 pg5-pg6pn3 
Steve buries Zemo, but some of Zemos men attack and destroy whats left of the jet. 

*** 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #6 pg9-pg14 
Tony has a chat with Thor, who says hell have to leave for a while to go to Asgard. Tony doesnt believe him, so Thor shows him a glimpse of his home. 

*** 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #6 pg18 
Pietro and Wanda have a chat in Germany while the television reports on rumors of members of the Avengers leaving the team. 

*** 

Avengers #16 pg6pn4-pg7pn3 
The Avengers talk about Thors absence when the room fills with smoke 


This scene matches up with A: EMH 7 pg1-pg9, which brings everything up to speed, more or less. 


If this were to work, wed have to assume that: 

1. Rick and Jarvis are talking about Jan recovering from some other injury than being shot in Nefarias castle. 

2. Rick was abducted twice. Once to get the Avengers worked up, and again to lure Cap away while the others fought the Masters of Evil. 

3. Well have to ignore Cap parachuting down to Rick. The dialogue can still work 

For point one, weve done this before. Im thinking of Caps death in CA3 50 and the Kang War, here. For point two, well, its a BTS explanation for sure. Point three, um, art error? 

If we can swallow those assumptions, we wouldnt have to toss any of A: EMH. Everythings accounted for! 

One thing off the top of my head: if this sequence can work, we should probably move Strange Tales 135 to after Avengers 16 for Tony. Fury is mentioned as still with the CIA during this time in A: EMH 6, which would be between pages of A 15. If Furys with the CIA at this point, he shouldnt already be with SHIELD. At a glance, the other appearance(FF, CA, TTA, etc) should work fine where they are. 

Thoughts?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:41 am    
By Somebody

Okay, I don't have anything to hand here, so this is purely off-memory - but isn't Cap seeing Zemo in the present-day for the first time different? 

IIRC< this is more like Spider-Man:Blue than X-Men: First Class.

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:42 pm    
By Col_Fury

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Okay, I don't have anything to hand here, so this is purely off-memory - but isn't Cap seeing Zemo in the present-day for the first time different? 
<<<

Nope. Zemo and Cap meet on a rooftop during a fight with the Masters of Evil in both A: EMH 3 & A 6. 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
this is more like Spider-Man: Blue than X-Men: First Class. 
<<<

Aren't the 'color' minis canon? Daredevil: Yellow is in the MCP, and I thought we found a way to make Hulk: Grey work. I honestly don't remember the deal with Spider-Man: Blue, though...
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:00 pm    
By Somebody

Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Aren't the 'color' minis canon? Daredevil: Yellow is in the MCP, and I thought we found a way to make Hulk: Grey work.  
<<<

Wasn't it just the present-day/framing sequence scenes with Hulk:Grey that went into the MCP, the rest being written off as Banner being an unreliable narrator when it comes to the Hulk's actions? (especially in the pre-Merged days) 


Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
I honestly don't remember the deal with Spider-Man: Blue, though... 
<<<

There's lots of "stuff happens differently" bits - MJ and Gwen subbing for Aunts May & Anna, Vulture vs Vulture happening 20 issues early, the Lizard being cured immediately after he's chilled rather than wrapped in a web cocoon and swung across town to get to the cure (with the "recovered Dr Conners" scene happening in the middle of the fight-damaged lab), etc. 

(Although it's possible the present-day scenes may go in as "unreliable narrator" again, I suppose)

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:28 pm    
By Col_Fury

Ah, yeah! That's right... 

OK, so the color minis are told through FlashBacks. A: EMH isn't, it's presented as a 'current' story. So, different animals, I suppose. 

Any thoughts on the 'Rick's adbuction' mess?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:36 pm    
By Somebody

Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Nope. Zemo and Cap meet on a rooftop during a fight with the Masters of Evil in both A: EMH 3 & A 6. 
<<<

Okay, I'm looking at it now. Besides the other copious differences in the "Cap meets Zemo XII for the first time in (Sliding-timeline-affected) years, the sequence in Av6 is at ground level, with Cap emerging from an alleyway (and dustbins and fire hydrants abounding) not on the roof. 

Breaking it down: 

Avengers v1 #6: 

p19: (Zemo XII has just hypnotised Rick Jones & his Teen Brigade and is holding his "master cylinder"). "Suddenly, a glistening, whirling shield knifes through the air, as a commanding voice rings out..." 

Cap: "They'll come to no harm! Not while I live!!" 

Cap's shield hits Zemo XII, knocking the cylinder out of his hand and knocking Zemo XII himself onto his backside. 

Zemo XII: "Captain America!! At last!" 

Cap (emerging from bricked-off alleyway): "So, it IS you Zemo! How I've prayed for this moment!" 

Zemo XII: "I thought you were dead!! I thought I had rid myself of you forever!" 

Cap: "I still live Zemo!! And thanks to the Avengers, I still fight!!" (kicks scepter out of Zemo XII's hand) "Perhaps you remember how I fight, Zemo? You have good reason to!!" 

Zemo XII (karate-chops Cap): "But I, too, am a fighter now, accursed one! I've had these many years to learn... to practice... to prepare for this moment if it ever came!" (karate-chops the top off a bin lying at the corner of a kerb) See what a karate blow, in the hands of a master, can do!" 

...okay, I won't transcribe any more Stan Lee dialogue, lengthy as it is. Cap's confident throughout this extended fight sequence though. Zemo XII's bald henchman of his own accord then shoots at Cap with a bullet, and grazes his skull, knocking him out. Zemo blasts off, while the henchman is prevented from joining him by Giant-Man. When Hank gets back to Cap, he's up and about and has the real cyclinder, Zemo having got away with a tear-gas fake. 

A:EMH3 version: 

On a rooftop, Cap comes up, facing Zemo XII and his numerous costumed & masked henchmen. Zemo holds no cylinder, and Rick & co are nowhere in sight. 

Cap: "I'll make this offer up front... drop your weapons and surrender now. Otherwise, I'll have to get rough." (shield stays firmly in-hand) 

Zemo XII: "That voice... After all these decades, I could never forget that unmistakable hint of American naviete. But the true question remains... do you remember ME?" 

*Cap is sent into Flashback Mode* 

Cap: "ZEEEEMO--!" 

Zemo XII: "How touching." (Zemo gives order in German) 

Henchmen start firing. 

Cap: "NOOOO--!" 

Cap throws his shield, deflecting a couple of shots and knocking the henchmen out, but a bullet grazes his skull and knocks him out. The rocket from Zemo's ship then burns half his mask off (NB: It was a helicopter-style thing in the original). When Giant-Man reaches him, he's lying on the ground in that way, muttering "Z-Zemo..." 

It's a retelling, nominally, but it's completely different. And I've zoned in on one aspect, the whole scene is different, with Zemo & Cap never coming to blows, Cap only remembering Zemo when he sees him (he was mentioning him by name earlier in the original issue) more and different henchmen, no anti-AX cylinder and all the other differences noted.

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:59 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
There's lots of "stuff happens differently" bits - MJ and Gwen subbing for Aunts May & Anna, Vulture vs Vulture happening 20 issues early, the Lizard being cured immediately after he's chilled rather than wrapped in a web cocoon and swung across town to get to the cure (with the "recovered Dr Conners" scene happening in the middle of the fight-damaged lab), etc. 

(Although it's possible the present-day scenes may go in as "unreliable narrator" again, I suppose) 
<<<

That was how it was treated in the bibliography to Marvel Legacy: The 1960s: the narration was written by Peter soon enough after Gwen's death that his grief caused him to misremember things. In other words, the flashbacks are unreliable enough that only the narration could be reasonably included in Peter's chronology. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:00 pm    
By Col_Fury

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
It's a retelling, nominally, but it's completely different. And I've zoned in on one aspect, the whole scene is different, with Zemo & Cap never coming to blows, Cap only remembering Zemo when he sees him (he was mentioning him by name earlier in the original issue) more and different henchmen, no anti-AX cylinder and all the other differences noted. 
<<<

Or, on the other hand, A 6 & A: EMH 3 ar telling different portions of the same story. Keep in mind, how Zemo's craft is drawn in the two comics doesn't bother me, and whether there's a garbage can during the Zemo/Cap fight doesn't bother me, or if it's on the roof or not.(even though it does look like Zemos' craft is taking off from a roof in A 6) Artistic license, whatever you want to call it. 

Also, the canisters aren't important to A: EMH's portion of the story. Call it dramatic pacing by omitting the Cap/Zemo fight scene from A: EMH 3, same as A 6 omitted the shot actually grazing Cap's skull. 

Here's an attempt to merge the two scenes: 

Avengers #6 pg1-pg4 
Iron Man gives Cap a shield with magnets in it, and elsewhere, Zemo remembers how his mask got glued to his face. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #3 pg16 
The Masters of Evil attack! 

Avengers #6 pg5-pg16pn3 
Ricks Teen Brigade contacts the Avenger as the Masters of Evil make a mess of New York. Cap remembers who made Adhesive X, and Giant-Man eventually approaches the Radioactive Man 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #3 pg17pn1-pg17pn2 
and takes his back pack. 

Avengers #6 pg16pn4-pg16pn7 
Giant-Man shrinks, confusing the Radioactive Man. 

Avengers; Earths Mightiest Heroes #3 pg17pn2-pg17pn4 
Wasp shoots Radioactive Man in the face, Black Knights flies around, Thor makes a comment. 

Avengers #6 pg17pn1-pg17pn3 
Iron Man captures the Radioactive Man 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #3 pg17pn5 
and finally responds to Thors comment. 

Avengers #6 pg17pn4 
Radioactive Man floats away. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #3 pg18-pg19pn3 
As Giant-Man grabs the floating Radioactive Man, Melter makes a comment, and Iron Man goes after him. Melter attacks 

Avengers #6 pg17pn5-pg19pn2 
and tells him he hasnt won yet, while he melts a lamppost. Iron Man defeats him. Elsewhere, Zemo hypnotizes Rick Jones. 

Avengers; Earths Mightiest Heroes #3 pg19pn4-pg21pn3 
Cap arrives and makes an offer. Zemo recognizes Steves voice, and Steve finally remembers who Zemo is. He throws his shield, it bounces of some of Zemos men 

Avengers #6 pg19pn3-pg21pn1 
and then off Zemo. Cap says hell protect Rick and the boys, etc, etc, Cap and Zemo fight, and one of Zemos men shoots at Cap. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #3 pg21pn4 
A shot bounces off Caps head. 

Avengers #6 pg21pn2-pg-pg22 
(editors caption explains that the shot only grazed his skull) Cap rolls away, Zemo and his men board the craft, Wasp and Giant-Man arrive and the villains escape. As the Avengers gather up the Masters of Evil, Zemo takes off in the background. 

Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes #3 pg21pn5-pg22 
Zemos craft flies away, Giant-Man goes to check on Cap, whos beginning to wake up, muttering Zemo 

Avengers #6 pg23 
Giant-Man wants to go after Zemo, but Cap(new recovered) doesnt think hell get very far. Iron Man un-hypnotizes Rick and the Teen Brigade, and Cap reveals that Zemo got away with the wrong canister.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:38 pm    
By Somebody

Okay, I've actually cut it together in the order you describe (from Avengers #6, pg19 onward): http://s174.photobucket.com/albums/w114/av3emh6/ 

1) Location changes, as I mention, with EMH on a roof, Av @ street level. 
2) Cap jumps over that wall twice, and Zemo reacts to Cap's presence twice. 
3) Giant-Man is the one to meet Thor and react to Zemo blasting off afar in Av while Iron Man goes to meet Cap. In EMH, it's the other way round. 
4) Cap's magically self-repairing costume. 
5) It's a plot point in EMH4 that Cap only remembers Zemo/etc in the ZEEMMOOO--! scene in EMH3. Whereas, of course, he remembers it right from the start in Av3 (before Av6/EMH3, obviously).

			*	*	*

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:38 pm    
By Col_Fury

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
I've actually cut it together in the order you describe  
<<<

Cool! 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
1) Location changes, as I mention, with EMH on a roof, Av @ street level.  
<<<

Different artistic interpretations of the plot between Kirby & Kollins. It doesn't really affect the story, but it may make it jarring. It doesn't bother me. 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
2) Cap jumps over that wall twice, and Zemo reacts to Cap's presence twice.  
<<<

Cap likes to jump over things.  For Zemo, in this order he recognizes Cap's voice first, then makes a comment("Captain America! At last!") when Cap finally starts to fight him. I don't see a problem with that. 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
3) Giant-Man is the one to meet Thor and react to Zemo blasting off afar in Av while Iron Man goes to meet Cap. In EMH, it's the other way round.  
<<<

Kinda.(we don't actually see Iron Man meet Cap, we only see him along with everyone else while he's un-hypnotizing Rick) The way I'm seeing it is; After Giant Man chases and captures Zemo's guy, he runs into Thor. Giant Man sees Zemo's craft blast off and says 'It's rising into the air!!' etc. Then Thor reacts to it.(BTS, meanwhile, Giant Man goes to check on how Cap's doing) Thor then tells Iron Man what a great job he did, and Iron Man calls Giant Man, who tells him how Cap's doing.(not well) Then, everyone regroups. Cap's recovered, Giant Man wants to go after Zemo, Iron Man fixes Rick, etc. 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
4) Cap's magically self-repairing costume.  
<<<

Different artistic interpretations, or Cap had a spare hat.  


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
5) It's a plot point in EMH4 that Cap only remembers Zemo/etc in the ZEEMMOOO--! scene in EMH3. Whereas, of course, he remembers it right from the start in Av3 (before Av6/EMH3, obviously). 
<<<

A: EMH had set up that Cap had bits of his memories, some were coming and going, and he hadn't really connected all the dots yet. So yes, he remembered that Bucky was killed,(Avengers 4 shows Steve remembering how Bucky died, but not who was responsible. Zemo was in shadows in that FlashBack and not named) and sure, he remembered that someone named Zemo made Adhesive X, but hadn't put everything together until "ZEEMMOOO--!" in A: EMH 3, keeping the plot point. 

I'm not saying that this is a perfect fit, but I do think it works. It requires Hank doing a bit of back-and-forth, but there it is, I guess.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:59 am    
By Col_Fury

I decided to turn my brain into mush and see what Captain America's and Iron Man's chronologies would look like with Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. A great big old thanks to Paul B. and his posts about this series in the archives. 

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
 
*A: EMH 1 
A 4 (1-15) 
*A: EMH 2 (1-15) 
A 4 (16-23) 
CA: SL2 5 
CA: SL2 6 
SENTRY 1-FB 
FF 25 
FF 26 
A 5 (1-15) 
*A: EMH 2 (16-18) 
A 5 (16-18:4) 
*A: EMH 2 (19:1) 
A 5 (18:5) 
*A: EMH 2 (19:2) 
A 5 (18:6)-BTS 
*A: EMH 2 (19:3-22) 
A 5 (16-23) 
*A: EMH 3 (1-15) 
A 6 (1-4) 
MARVELS 2 (1-5) 
A 6 (5-19:2) 
*A: EMH 3 (16-21:3) 
A 6 (19:3-21:1) 
*A: EMH 3 (21:4) 
A 6 (21:2-22) 
*A: EMH 3 (21:5-22) 
A 6 (23) 
*A: EMH 4 (1-5) 
T: G 1 
JIM 105 
TTA 58 
A 7 
TTA 59 
ASM@ 1 
TOS 58 
A 8 (1-5:2) 
*A: EMH 4 (6-8) 
A 8 (5:3-17:3) 
*A: EMH 4 (9-12:2) 
A 8 (17:4-17:5) 
*A: EMH 4 (12:3-14:3) 
A 8 (18-19:5) 
*A: EMH 4 (14:4-15:3) 
A 8 (19:6-20:5) 
*A: EMH 4 (15:4) 
A 8 (20:6-21:3) 
*A: EMH 4 (15:5-17:3) 
A 8 (21:4) 
*A: EMH 4 (17:4) 
A 8 (21:5-21:6) 
*A: EMH 4 (17:5-18) 
A 8 (21:7) 
*A: EMH 4 (19-22) 
ASM 18 
TOS 59/2 
A 9 
TOS 59 
A 9 
FF 31 
A 9 
WCA2 2-FB 
UA 2 
UA 3 
UA 4 
UTSM '97 
TTA 62/2 
A 10 
UX 9 
TOS 60/2 
A 11 
TOS 61/2 
A 12 
TOS 62/2 
A 13 (1-19:6) 
*A: EMH 5 (1-4) 
A 13 (19:7-20:8) 
*A: EMH (5-14) 
A 13 (20:9) 
A 14 (1) 
*A: EMH 5 (15) 
A 14 (2-19) 
*A: EMH 5 (16-22) 
A 14 (20) 
FF 36 
CA 221/2 
A 15 (1-5) 
*A: EMH 6 (1-6) 
A 15 (6-16) 
*A: EMH 6 (7-16:3) 
A 15 (19:3-19:4) 
*A: EMH 6 (16:4-17) 
A 15 (19:5-20:4) 
*A: EMH 6 (18-20:2) 
A 15 (20:5) 
*A: EMH 6 (20:3-22) 
A 15 (20:6-20:8) 
*A: EMH 7 (1-12) 
A 16 (1-14) 
M/H&L '97 (25-30) 
*A: EMH 7 (13-22) 
M/H&L '97 (33:1-33:2)-BTS 
A 16 (15:1-15:6) 
M/H&L '97 (33:3-34) 
A 16 (15:6) 
*A: EMH 8 (1-5) 
A 16 (16) 
*A: EMH 8 (6:1-6:5) 
A 16 (17:1) 
M/H&L 97 (35-41:3) 
*A: EMH 8 (6:6) 
A 16 (17:2) 
M/H&L 97 (41:4) 
*A: EMH 8 (7-8) 
M/H&L 97 (41:5) 
A 16 (17:3-17:4) 
M/H&L 97 (42:1-42:3) 
A 16 (17:5)~M/H&L '97 (42:4) 
A 16 (18:1-18:3) 
JIM 116 
A 280 (8:3-8:8)-FB 
*A: EMH 8 (9-22) 
M/H&L '97 (42:5-47) 
A 16 (19-20) 
TB 9-FB 
MARVELS 2 (25) 
A 17 
A 18 
FF@ 3 
 

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK 
 
A 1 
IM2 11 
A 280-FB 
*A: EMH 1 (1-14) 
A 1.5 
AOI-FB 
IM: IA 1 
TOS 45 
IM: IA 2 
TOS 45 
TOS 46-FB 
TOS 46 
TOS 46-FB 
TOS 46 
M/CP 58/4 
TOS 47 
IM: IA 2 
TOS 47 
A 2 
A 267 
A 268 
A 2 
TOS 48 
IM: IA 2 
FURY 1 (39:3-41:2)-FB 
FURY 1 (43-53)-FB 
TOS 49 
UTSM 3 
*A: EMH 1 (15-16) 
A 3 (1-12) 
*A: EMH 1 (17-18) 
A 3 (13-25) 
*A: EMH 1 (19-23) 
A 4 (1-15) 
*A: EMH 2 (1-15) 
TOS 50 
IM 78-FB 
TOS 50 
TOS 51 
A 4 (16-23) 
CA: SL2 5 
CA: SL2 6 
SENTRY 1-FB 
FF 25 
FF 26 
A 5 (1-3:3) 
TOS 52 
TOS 53-FB 
TOS 52 
IM 78-FB 
TOS 53 
A 5 (3:4-15) 
*A: EMH 2 (16-18) 
A 5 (16-18:4) 
*A: EMH 2 (19:1) 
A 5 (18:5) 
*A: EMH 2 (19:2) 
A 5 (18:6)-BTS 
*A: EMH 2 (19:3-19:5) 
A 5 (16-23) 
*A: EMH 2 (20-22) 
*A: EMH 3 (1-15) 
A 6 (1-4) 
MARVELS 2 (1-3) 
A 6 (5-17:3) 
*A: EMH 3 (16-17:5) 
A 6 (17:4) 
*A: EMH 3 (18-19) 
A 6 (17:5-18) 
MARVELS 2 (4-5) 
A 6 (19-22) 
*A: EMH 3 (20-22) 
A 6 (23) 
*A: EMH 4 (1-5) 
TOS 54 
TOS 55 
T:G 1 
JIM 101 
JIM 105 
TOS 56 
A 7 
JIM 107-BTS 
JIM 108 
TTA 59 
TOS 57 
ASMU 18-FB 
ASM@ 1 
TOS 58 (1-15:5) 
TOS 58-FB 
TOS 58 (15:6-18) 
MARVELS 2 (19-20) 
A 8 (1-5:2) 
*A: EMH 4 (6-8) 
A 8 (5:3-17:3) 
*A: EMH 4 (9-12:2) 
A 8 (17:4-19:5) 
*A: EMH 4 (12:3-14:4) 
A 8 (19:6-20:1) 
*A: EMH 4 (14:5-15:2) 
A 8 (20:2-21:3) 
*A: EMH 4 (15:3-17:3) 
A 8 (21:4) 
*A: EMH 4 (17:4) 
A 8 (21:5-21:6) 
*A: EMH 4 (17:5-18) 
A 8 (21:7) 
*A: EMH 4 (19-22) 
ASM 18 
A 9 
TOS 59 
A 9 
FF 31 
A 9 
A 58-FB 
WCA2 2-FB 
A 13-FB 
UTSM '97 
TOS 60 
A 10 
UX 9 
TOS 61 
TOS 62 
TOS 63 
A 12 
A 13 (1-19:8) 
*A: EMH 5 (1-5) 
A 13 (19:9-20:4) 
*A: EMH 5 (6-10) 
A 13 (20:5-20:8) 
*A: EMH 5 (11) 
A 13 (20:9) 
*A: EMH 5 (12-14) 
A 14 (1) 
*A: EMH 5 (15) 
A 14 (2-19) 
*A: EMH 5 (16-22) 
A 14 (20) 
FF 36 
TOS 64 
CA 221/2 
TOS 65 
A 15 (1-5) 
*A: EMH 6 (1-6) 
A 15 (6-20) 
A 16 (1-4) 
TOS 66 
*A: EMH 6 (7-22) 
M/H&L '97 (19-22:3) 
A 16 (5-6:5) 
M/H&L '97 (22:4-22:6) 
A 16 (6:6-7:1) 
M/H&L '97 (23:1) 
A 16 (7:2-7:3) 
M/H&L '97 (23:2) 
*A: EMH 7 (1) 
A 16 (7:4) 
M/H&L '97 (23:3-23:4) 
*A: EMH 7 (2:1-2:2) 
A 16 (7:5-8:3) 
*A: EMH 7 (2:3) 
M/H&L '97 (22:5-22:6)-BTS 
A 16 (18:4)-BTS 
*A: EMH 7 (2:4-2:5) 
A 16 (8:5)~M/H&L '97 (24:1) 
*A: EMH 7 (3:1-3:3) 
M/H&L 97 (24:2-24:3) 
*A: EMH 7 (3:4-9) 
M/H&L '97 (24:4) 
A 16 (8:6) 
M/H&L 97 (24:5) 
A 16 (9-10) 
*A: EMH 7 (13:2)-FB 
A 16 (11:1-11:2) 
*A: EMH 7 (13:3-13:5)-FB 
A 16 (11:3-11:4) 
*A: EMH 7 (22:4)-FB 
A 16 (11:5-13:3) 
*A: EMH 7 (10-22) 
A 16 (13:4-13:5) 
* A: EMH 8 (1-2) 
A 16 (13:6-14) 
M/H&L '97 (25-37) 
*A: EMH 8 (3) 
A 16 (15:1-15:2) 
M/H&L '97 (38-39) 
A 16 (15:3-16) 
M/H&L 97 (40-41) 
A 16 (17:1-17:2) 
*A: EMH 8 (4-8) 
A 16 (17:3-17:4) 
M/H&L 97 (42:1-42:3) 
A 16 (17:5)~M/H&L 97 (42:4) 
A 16 (18:1-18:3) 
JIM 116 
A 280 (8:3-8:8)-FB 
*A: EMH 8 (9-16) 
M/H&L '97 (42:5-45:5) 
A 16 (18:4-18:6) 
M/H&L '97 (46:1-47) 
A 16 (19-20:1) 
*A: EMH 8 (17-18:4) 
A 16 (20:2) 
*A: EMH 8 (18:5-19) 
A 16 (20:3-20:5) 
*A: EMH 8 (21-22) 
***ST 135 (1-12:2) 
***NFAOS 4 (17:3-19:5) 
***ST 135 (12:3-12:7) 
TOS 67 
TOS 68 
S&L 1/3 
TOS 69 (1-8:2) 
FF@ 3 
 

A: EMH 6 references Nick Fury as still with the CIA, which would move ST 135 & NFAOS 4 to after A 16 for Iron Man. Besides that, it doesn't look like any other moves would be required. Note that all pages are accounted for, and not out of order in the individual chronologies. 

Speaking of Nick: 

FURY, COL. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH 
... 
FF 21 
FURY 1-FB 
*A: EMH 6-BTS 
FURY 1-FB 
ST 135 (1 - 3) 
... 

So... any thoughts?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Thread 23

Posted: 31 Mar 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Gun Runner (1993-4 Marvel UK)
By Dhall

Here is another Marvel UK series that had no ties to other MUK comics. 
The only real tie to Marvel US us the apps. of Ghost Rider II and III in issues 1 and 2. As I mention below, these apps. are footnoted as being before the 'Road to Vengeance' storyline, which as far as I can tell occurs in GR3 41-43. 
Can these issues be put right before Gr3 41, or do they need to go earlier in chronology? 
Thanks! 
Dave H 

Gun Runner #1 
October 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
Gun Runner/Brell (also in fb) 
Ghost Rider II/Johnny Blaze 
Ghost Rider III/Dan Ketch 
Menninger, ClarA  BTS only 
Patric, Gale 
Acolyte Babet 
Steve 
Shakata 
Oracle-BTS 

Summary: A space ship drifts close to Earth, containing a lone crew member, who is in suspended animation, dreaming about the past. The ship can no longer guarantee his safety, so it ejects Brell to land on Earth. He appears naked, in the Nevada desert, and encounters a blonde woman, Gale. She runs a casino, and gets Brell a job there. Johnny Blaze investigates the town, based on a psychic vision from Clara Menninger. Some patrons start a fight, and Brell finishes it. Then he asks Gale to take him back to the desert, as his memory is returning. Brell finDs his life pod, and his armor. He was an enhances soldier in the Vassyr liberation army, fighting the Cynodd. Acolyte Babet reports to his lord, who sends some guys after Brell. Blaze follows them to the desert. There is a big fight, and Ghost Rider III shows up. 

Note: These events occur before the Road to Vengeance storyline. 

Gun Runner #2 
Nov. 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
Gun Runner (also in brief origin fb) 
Lure (only in Gun Runners brief origin fb) 
Smith (only in Gun Runners brief origin fb) 
Heavy Duty (only in Gun Runners brief origin fb) 
Ghost Rider II/Johnny Blaze 
Ghost Rider III/Dan Ketch 
Patric, Gale 
Shakata 

Summary: A pointless fight between Gun Runner and Ghost Rider ensues. Then he and Gale track down the Cynodd. He fights some Cynodd warriors, under a casino, then is confronted by Shakata, their leader. The Ghost Riders track him down. Another fight ensues. Gun Runner knocks down Shakata, destroys the casino, and takes a Cynodd space shuttle. 

Note: This continues directly from the previous issue. 

Gun Runner#3 
Dec. 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
Patric, Gale 
Gun Runner 
Oracle 
Shakata 
Necroborg 
Blitz 
Payload 
Laz-Fire 
Ballistik 
Warcrime 
Smith 
Heavy-Duty/Gloria Teth 

The two journey to Gun Runners spaceship, and take out their pursuers, then they space fold. The ship is run by Oracle, a woman, who is bonded to the computer, of Gun Runners ship, the Warbird. Shakata decides to pursue. Brell goes looking for the last known positions of his crew. They find Smith, and Heavy-Duty. Shakatas troops show up to fight. 

Note: This continues directly from the previous issue. 

Gun Runner #4 
Jan. 1994 
Characters Appearing: 
Blitz 
Payload 
Laz-Fire 
Ballistik 
Warcrime 
Gun Runner 
Patric, Gale 
Smith 
Heavy-Duty/Gloria Teth 
Oracle 
Lure/Kay Glayvor 
Foreman Gekedorn 
Gyre 
Summary: Brell and his friends fight the Zoo, then leave. Then they meet up with Lure. 

Note: This continues directly from the previous issue. 

Gun Runner #5 
Feb. 1994 
Characters Appearing: 
Gun Runner 
Lure/Kay Glayvor 
Smith 
Heavy-Duty/Gloria Teth 
Gyre 
Oracle 
Patric, Gale 
Shakata 
Necroborg 
Blitz 
Payload 
Laz-Fire 
Ballistik 
Warcrime 

Summary: Brell learns that his world is dead. Gale and Oracle help the team escape. Shakata decides to do something weird to Earth, and the team goes to fight him. 

Note: This continues directly from the previous issue. 

Gun Runner #6 
March 1994 
Characters Appearing: 
Gun Runner 
Lure/Kay Glayvor 
Smith 
Heavy-Duty/Gloria Teth 
Gyre 
Blitz 
Payload 
Laz-Fire 
Ballistik 
Warcrime 
Oracle 
Patric, Gale 
Shakata 
Babet 
Steve 

The team fight the Zoo,a nd manage to kill them. Brell fights Shakata. The team wins, Gale leaves the casino to Steve, and leaves for the stars with the team. 

Note: This continues directly from the previous issue. 


Note: Gun Runner also makes an appearance in Annihilation: Ronan#3. 

This series occurs before the Road to vengeance storyline, which is in GR3 41-43. 
Can these issues go right before it, or do they have to go earlier? 


GHOST RIDER II/JOHNNY BLAZE 
*GUN 1 
*GUN 2 

GHOST RIDER III/DANNY KETCH 
*GUN 1 
*GUN 2 

MENNINGER, CLARA 
*GUN 1-BTS 

New Characters: 

BABET 
GUN 1 
GUN 6 

BALLISTIK 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

BLITZ 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

GUN RUNNER/BRELL 
GUN 2-FB 
GUN 1-FB 
GUN 1 
GUN 2 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

GYRE 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

HEAVY-DUTY/GLORIA TETH 
GUN 2-FB 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

LAZ-FIRE 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

LURE/KAY GLAYVOR 
GUN 2-FB 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

NECROBORG 
GUN 3 
GUN 5 

ORACLE II (This character s/b Oracle II, since this series was published in 1993, before L:PW. The Oracle character from L:PW s/b Oracle III.) 
GUN 1-BTS 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 


PATRIC, GALE 
GUN 1 
GUN 2 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

PAYLOAD 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

SHAKATA 
GUN 1 
GUN 2 
GUN 3 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

SMITH 
GUN 2-FB 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

WARCRIME 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6

			*	*	*

Posted: 31 Mar 2007 08:30 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
Here is another Marvel UK series that had no ties to other MUK comics. 
<<<

Smith first appeared in the first Death's Head II/Killpower: Battletide miniseries.

			*	*	*

Posted: 31 Mar 2007 08:52 pm    
By Dhall

So he did, I forgot about him, since he does have a forgettable code name. 
Still that series obviously comes before this one, so the chronology is pretty straight forward. According to my notes: 

SMITH 
<Battletide 2> 
<Battletide 3> 
<Battletide 3-fb> 
<Battletide 4> 
GUN 2-FB 
GUN 3 
GUN 4 
GUN 5 
GUN 6 

The brackets signaling that the series has not been analyzed yet.

			*	*	*

Posted: 31 Mar 2007 11:48 pm    
By JLH

Dhall wrote: 
>>>
Can these issues be put right before Gr3 41, or do they need to go earlier in chronology? 
<<<

Yes, they can go right before GR3 41, since an unrelated Marvel Comics Presents storyline occurred during that gap between issues as well.

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 08:02 am    
By Enda80

DCP or MCP?

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 10:09 am    
By Somebody

Don't you remember the infamous "Superman and... Ghost Rider?!" team-up issue?

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 01:24 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Don't forget, Access appeared in an issue of Green Lantern, where he invoked Gaea for power. 

-Jeph

			*	*	*

Thread 24

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 03:22 pm    Post subject: Supersoldiers (1993 Marvel UK)
By Dhall

This is another MUK series which didnt cross over with the rest of the MUK, but would have if it hadnt been abruptly cancelled in mid-storyline. 
My placements for the various Marvel US characters are based on date of publication, so if theres a problem with them, I am counting on you to let me know. 
The X-Men appear only in a flashback, in issue 7. Ive placed that where I did, based on that this fb is supposed to occur a few years ago, and as Xavier, Logan, and Peter are all wearing the same outfits that they wore when they went to recruit Kitty Pryde, this fb is obviously a joke on Uncanny X-Men 129. It makes the most sense to place it right before the team try to recruit Kitty. It would have been a bit of a different comic, if the Guvnor had said yes, and Kitty had said no, wouldnt it. 

Supersoldiers #1 
April 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
Invicible/ Joseph Hauer (also in origin fb) 
Pembridge, Sir Robin 
Grantby-Fox, Sir Marcus 
Henry Peter Gyrich 
Wilde, Sarah 
Spider-Woman 
USAgent (currently in the West Coast Avengers) 
Khan, Dr. Javed (also in fb) 
Revenge/Childs (Also in fb) 
Nuke (Frank Simpson) in fb only, during the experiment which gave him superpowers. 

Hauer breaks out of cryogenic storage, and he remembers that he wants to kill somone named Childs, but he cant remember why. He fights his way out of the center. The British authorities call Gyrich for a superhero to stop Hauer. Hauer takes a ride with a journalist, Sarah Wilde, and comes across a military roadblock. They eventually make their way to Khan, a scientist, who is murdered and the house surrounded. 

Supersoldiers #2 
May 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
Invicible/ Joseph Hauer (also in last mission fb) 
Wilde, Sarah 
Grantby-Fox, Sir Marcus 
Devilliers 
Gryich 
USAgent 
Revenge/Childs (also in mission fb)(also in last mission fb) 
Dreadnaught/Turner (deceased in fb, last mission) 
Victory/ Wright (deceased in fb, last mission) 
Dauntless/ Alec Dalton (in last mission fb) 
Challenger/ Black (dies in last mission fb) 

Gog 
Other Welsh super soldiers 

Hauer remembers his last mission, where Childs turned and slaughtered the team. Only Dalton escaped. Hauer and Sarah find out this information, then decide to trace Daltons path in Thailand. 

Supersoldiers #3 
June 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
USAgent 
Invicible/ Joseph Hauer 
Wilde, Sarah 
Dalton 
Revenge/Childs 
Gog 
Other Welsh super soldiers 


IN FB (between issues 2 and 3) 
Hauer 
Wilde, Sarah 
Dauntless/ Dalton (also in fb-fb) 
USAgent 

In another fb: 
USAgent (between issues 2 and the first fb in this issue) 
Gyrich 
In another fb: 
Grantby-Fox, Sir Marcus 
Revenge/Childs 
Gog 
Other Welsh super soldiers 

Hauer and Sarah track down Dalton. Then USAgent tracks them down and a big fight ensues. Then Childs comes in with Marcus other team of super soldiers to kill everyone. 

Supersoldiers #4 

USAgent 
Invicible/ Joseph Hauer 
Wilde, Sarah 
Dalton 
Gog/Owen LLewelyn (also in origin fb) 
Revenge/Childs 
Grantby-Fox, Sir Marcus 

They fight off the super zombies, then fix up the one called Gog. Then they decide to go after Sir Marcus. 

Supersoldiers #5 
Aug. 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
USAgent 
Invicible/ Joseph Hauer 
Wilde, Sarah 
Dalton 
Captain America 
Gog/Owen LLewelyn 
Revenge/Childs 
Grantby-Fox, Sir Marcus 

USAgent calls Captain America for help. They go after Sir Marcus, and kill Childs. Cap shows up to talk Hauer out of killing Marcus. The British Govt slaps a D-Notice, making it impossible to publish anything relating to the incident, and no one will be prosecuted. 

Supersoldier s #6 
Sept. 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
Xantia 
Invicible/ Joseph Hauer (also in fb between issues 5 and 6) 
Wilde, Sarah 
Guvnor/Black, Andrew 
MacLaren, Terry 
Gog/Owen LLewelyn (also in fb between issues 5 and 6) 
Dalton (also in fb between issues 5 and 6) 
Dragonfly/ Andre LeRoux 
Nick Fury 
Major Nomura 

The team decide to work for the British Govt. Fury comes to brief them on their assignment. 

Supersoldier s #7 
October 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
Alec Dalton 
Nick Fury 
Invicible/ Joseph Hauer 
Guvnor/Black, Andrew (also in FB a few years agowhere Xavier tries to recruit him) 
Lawnmower/ Hiro Sugiyama 
Arkwright, Len 
Dragonfly/ Andre LeRoux 
Huang Zhu 
Xantia/ Xan Al Hhffrrnnr Kzznr Fthgnr 
Sarah Wilde 
Gog/Owen LLewelyn 
Professor X (in fb only) 
Wolverine (in fb only) 
Colossus (in fb only) 
Cyclops (in fb only) 
Mandarin 
Shinobi Shaw 

The Warlord Huang Zhu is hosting a martial arts to the death tournament in the Savage Land. Dalton infiltrates it. Then SHIELD attacks. Dalton recruits Dragonly, Xantia, and Guvnor. It turns out that Mandarin and Shinobi set up SHIELD to go after Zhu by spreading runors about giant mutant cocaine plants. 
In a fb: Xavier and co, try to recruit Andrew Black, but his parents think Charles is a pervert, and the kids from the estate throw rocks at the X-Men. 

Supersoldiers #8 
Nov. 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
Punisher 
General Jose Luis Endaro 
Dragonfly/ Andre LeRoux 
Xantia/ Xan Al Hhffrrnnr Kzznr Fthgnr 
Sarah Wilde 
Gog/Owen LLewelyn 
Invicible/ Joseph Hauer 
Alec Dalton 
Guvnor/Black, Andrew 
Sir Robin Pembridge 
Mr. Strasser 
Reno, Jack 
Keel 
Kyle 
Villarosa 
Davis 
Milo 
Downes, Dr. Bohemia 
Sugar 


The team has been sold to the private sector, to work for the Mercy Corporation. However Mercy only uses Superhuman personnel, so they only want Hauer, Dalton, Llewelyn, and Black. The rest of the issue is filled with testing, and scheming and the like. 

Note: This was supposed to be the beginning of a crossover, but turned out to be the last issue of the title. 


Marvel US Characters: 

CAPTAIN AMERICA 
CA 417 
CA 418 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 5 
A 360 
A 360/2 


COLOSSUS 
UX 128 
UX 129 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 7-FB 
UX 129 
UX 130 
UX 131 

CYCLOPS 
UX 128 
UX 129 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 7-FB 
UX 129 
UX 130 
UX 131 

FURY, NICK 
XFOR 20 
XFOR 21 
XFOR 22 
C2 4-BTS 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 6 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
CA 420 
W/NF:SR 
X 25 
A 368 
GYRICH, HENRY PETER 
H2 403-BTS 
XFOR 19 
UX 299 
XFOR 20 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 1 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 2 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 3-FB 
XU 2 
X@ 2 
A 368 


MANDARIN 
IM 274 
IM 275 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
IM 306 
IM 307 

**NUKE/FRANK SIMPSON 
SUPERSOLDIERS 1-FB 
Nuke doesnt seem to have an MCP listing at all yet. This fb shows him being experimented on. 

PROFESSOR X 
CX 31/2 
UX 125 
UX 129 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 7-FB 
UX 129 
UX 130 
UX 131 

PUNISHER 
PUN2 82 
PUN2 83 
PUN2 84 
PWZ 20 
PWZ 21 
PWZ 22 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 8 
PHS 2-FB 
PHS 2 
PHS 2/2 
PHS 2/3 
TS 3 
PUN2 85 

SHAW, SHINOBI 
UX 301 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
NW 43 
NW 44-BTS 

SPIDER-WOMAN II/JULIA CARPENTER 
AWC 95 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 1 
SECDEF 1 

USAGENT 
AWC 95 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 1 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 2 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 3-FB 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 3-FB 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 3 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 4 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 5 
WM2 24 

WOLVERINE 
UX 127 
UX 128 
UX 129 
* SUPERSOLDIERS 7-FB 

UX 129 
UX 130 

New Characters: 

CHALLENGER/BLACK 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2-FB 

DRAGONFLY/ANDRE LE ROUX <- Note this was published in 1993, so the numbering on the various Dragonfly characters will have to be changed. Since the character has an origin from the 70s, he should probably be Dragonfly II, but Im not sure about that. 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6 
SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
SUPERSOLDIERS 8 

DREADNAUGHT/TURNER 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2-FB 

DAUNTLESS/ALEC DALTON 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3-FB-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3 
SUPERSOLDIERS 4 
SUPERSOLDIERS 5 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6 
SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
SUPERSOLDIERS 8 

GOG IV/OWN LLEWELYN 
SUPERSOLDIERS 4-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3 
SUPERSOLDIERS 4 
SUPERSOLDIERS 5 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6 
SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
SUPERSOLDIERS 8 

GRANTBY-FOX, SIR MARCUS 
SUPERSOLDIERS 1 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 4 
SUPERSOLDIERS 5 

GUVNOR/ANDREW BLACK 
SUPERSOLDIERS 7-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6 
SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
SUPERSOLDIERS 8 

INVINCIBLE/JOSEPH HAUER 
SUPERSOLDIERS 1-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 1 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3 
SUPERSOLDIERS 4 
SUPERSOLDIERS 5 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6 
SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
SUPERSOLDIERS 8 

LAWNMOWER/HIRO SUGIYAMA 
SUPERSOLDIERS 7 

PEMBRIDGE, SIR ROBIN 
SUPERSOLDIERS 1 
SUPERSOLDIERS 8 

REVENGE/CHILDS 
SUPERSOLDIERS 1-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 1 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 4 
SUPERSOLDIERS 5 

XANTIA/XAN AL HHFFRRNNR KZZNR FTHGNR 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6 
SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
SUPERSOLDIERS 8 

WILDE, SARAH 
SUPERSOLDIERS 1 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3-FB 
SUPERSOLDIERS 3 
SUPERSOLDIERS 4 
SUPERSOLDIERS 5 
SUPERSOLDIERS 6 
SUPERSOLDIERS 7 
SUPERSOLDIERS 8 

VICTORY/WRIGHT 
SUPERSOLDIERS 2-FB

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Thread 25

Posted: 02 Apr 2007 02:06 am    Post subject: Spider-Man: Fear Itself GN
By JLH

The finale of my Gap GN trilogy. 

------------------------------------ 
SPIDER-MAN: FEAR ITSELF Marvel Graphic Novel [February 1992] 
Plotter: Gerry Conway 
Scripters: Gerry Conway and Stan Lee 
Penciler: Ross Andru 
Inker: Mike Esposito 

Cast: 
ZEMO/BARON HEINRICH ZEMO (FB only) 
HITLER, ADOLF (FB only) 
ZEMO, BARONESS HEIKE (also in FB) 
WHITE NINJA (not the Prowler's brother) 
SILVER SABLE/SILVER SABLINOVIA (also in FB) 
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE 
OSBORN, HARRY 
CUSHING, KATE 
JAMESON, J. JONAH 
URICH, BEN 
PARKER, MAY REILLY 


Other characters: 
Lord Kenada (Yakuza guy) 
Kling (NSA guy) 
Cassidy, Victor (Video FB only. Scientist and creator of Cassidy Crystals) 
Sable's Wild Pack (not the super powered ones, the generic soldiers) 
Various henchmen (some die) 


Summary: So, a lady calling herself the Baroness spars with a white ninja aptly named White Ninja. She's a terrorist and wants to hire him from the Japanese Yakuza. But Silver Sable is watching! The next day, in New York City, Spider-Man saves his wife, Mary Jane, from a group of horny thugs. He then swings with her to Queens, where they're staying the weekend at Aunt May's place. He discusses his fears for her health should she learn his secret identity. Elsewhere, at an Osborn Chemical plant, the White Ninja, a mutant with the ability to make himself invisible, makes his way to a secure vault within the building. But Silver Sable and her paid mercernary group get the drop on him. At least, they try. He beats them up and takes off with a vial of something called Cassidy Crystals. Owner Harry Osborn is called to the scene of the crime, which becomes a matter of national security when it turns out those crystals were swiped. The next day, while at the Daily Bugle looking for work, hears of the Osborn break-in and Ben Urich's problems getting to the story. Jonah has Peter, given his ties to Harry, given the assignment. Peter meets with Harry, but under the stipulation the info not be used in the newspaper, he reveals the truth. The Cassidy Crystals were created by an Osborn Chem scientist to cure schizophrenia, but instead creates it. Surveillance footage only shows Silver Sable and her people on it, and so now it's believe she stole them! Not to mention she has diplomatic immunity. That night, as Spider-Man, Peter crashes a ball at the Symkarian embassy, confronts Silver Sable, and gets a history lesson about Adolf Hitler's Marvel Universe survival method. That relates to the original Baron Zemo, who was reportedly offered the same chance at immortality. Sable believes Zemo is working with this new Baroness lady. So, Spidey now aware of the whole master scheme, he returns to Aunt May's, burns some eggs, makes out with MJ, and takes a trip to Bavaria with Sable. There, they and her troops storm the castle Baroness is based out of. They face dogs with no barks, and soon the White Ninja! Eventually, Spidey is exposed to the Cassidy Crystals, and sees all manner of fearsome images you'd stereotypically expect him to see. The best part being his fighting his cynical black-costumed self. He overcomes his fears (which you knew he would), and defeats the White Ninja, tricking him into inhaling the crystals and plummeting to his doom. Silver Sable, her troops dead from getting exposed to the crystals and killing each other in fear, lurks into the castle alone. She's captured, and meets the Baroness, who makes her plan to spread the crystals throughout the world by rocket, allowing her and her nazis to overtake the planet. Oh, and it turns out she's the original Baron Zemo, cloned into a female's body. So, Sable's tossed into a cell, which she breaks out of via a laser tooth implant, and joins up with Spidey in chasing after Baroness, who has now donned the Baron's old mask. The Baroness gets a whiff of the crystals, sees herself turning into a big bug, smashes her bald head against a mirror, then can't see over the blood when trying to launch the fear rockets, thus hitting the self-destruction button. Spidey tries to save the Baroness, but she tries to kill him some more and he leaps out the window just before the explosion which she could not possibly escape but yet apparently does according to Captain America's book later on. I have no idea the environmental impact of the Cassidy Crystals being ignited with the castle, which should mean some fallout from the place whafts through Germany, turning plenty people crazy. Instead, he skip ahead a day, to Peter returning in the night and surprising a sleeping MJ by climbing the cieling in his underpants. Yeah, lord knows she loves tricks played on her, as Venom proved... 


Flashback: April 30, 1945. Hitler and Zemo get together and form the band "They Might Be Immortals". My description of the scene is irrelevant since it's already in the MCP. 

FB 2, Six months ago, Baroness Zemo establishes herself in Germany, we see her getting off of a plane and then heading to her castle. Two weeks ago, Silver Sable caught one of her arms smugglers, and learned her connection to Zemo. 


Continuity notes: Peter & MJ are staying at Aunt May's house in Queens only for a weekend. 

Peter's freelance at the Daily Bugle. Yeah, that covers about 90% of his life, but it's all I've got. 

Harry Osborn isn't crazy at the moment in this story, and he's currently married. That might help in placement! No? Bah! 

"Scenes we've seen before" cameo appearances by Hitler, Hitler's brain, Arnim Zola, the original Human Torch, Hate Monger, the original Fantastic Four, Red Skull, Captain America and bad old Baron Zemo. 

Imaginary appearances by Green Goblin, Doctor Doom, Doc Ock, Brainchild, Lizard, Vulture, Rhino, some wolf guy, Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy, Betty Brant, Flash Thompson, and Black-Suit Spidey. 

As the Cap appearances show, Baroness isn't actually the Baron after all. So why'd she claim she was? Because this story was infected by Cassidy Crystals, and is schizoid itself! 


Goofs: The cover has the White Ninja looking awful red, and Baroness had her hair black instead of yellow. 

------------------------------------ 

Strangely, my placement makes it appear as though Pete's return to the black suit in S-M 13 may have been partially inspired by his fear-induced battle with his black suited self! 

ZEMO/BARON HEINRICH ZEMO 
... 
WI? 5 
(SPIDER-MAN: FEAR ITSELF-FB)-REPLACE 
**SM:FI-FB 
TB -1 
... 

HITLER, ADOLF 
... 
FF3 52-FB-BTS 
(SPIDER-MAN: FEAR ITSELF-FB)-REPLACE 
**SM:FI-FB 
FURY 1-FB 
... 

ZEMO, BARONESS HEIKE 
**SM:FI-FB 
**{SM:FI} 
CA 431 
... 

**WHITE NINJA 
(other White Ninja should be listed with a "II") 
SM:FI 

SILVER SABLE/SILVER SABLINOVIA 
... 
XCAL 36 
**SM:FI-FB 
**SM:FI 
SSWP 1 
... 


SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
... 
WOSM 80 
**SM:FI 
S-M 13 
... 

WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE 
... 
WOSM 80 
**SM:FI 
S-M 13 
... 

OSBORN, HARRY 
... 
WOSM 78 
**SM:FI 
PPTSS 178 
... 

CUSHING, KATE 
... 
WOSM 78 
**SM:FI 
ASMU 1 
... 


JAMESON, J. JONAH 
... 
WOSM 78 
**SM:FI 
S-M 13 
... 

URICH, BEN 
... 
WOSM 78 
**SM:FI 
WOSM 82 
... 

PARKER, MAY REILLY 
... 

WOSM 78 
**SM:FI 
ASM 351 
...

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Posted: 02 Apr 2007 07:29 am    
By Enda80

"Flashback: April 30, 1945. Hitler and Zemo get together and form the band "They Might Be Immortals". My description of the scene is irrelevant since it's already in the MCP. " 
http://www.marveldatabase.com/Arnim_Zola 
Incidentally, whoever wrote this graphic novel (oh wait, Stan Lee) made an error. In Super-Villain Team-Up#17, when Moses met with Arnim Zola and learned of the cloned body back-up program (a meeting which SVTU places in early 1945), Zola was still in his original body, not the cyborg, genetically engineered boy he usually appears in. That issue also showed Zola in his original body when his patron's mind entered the cloned brain after the Torch flammbd him. 

One account, Fury#1 show that in 1944 Zola had already transferred his mind into his current, ESP box headed body. Talking with the Red Skull, he presented him with a pill to use to place himself in suspended animation. Zola then presented Hitler with a completed cloned body to which he could transfer his mind before death. After Hitler walked out, Baron Strucker, a fugitive, entered the room. Strucker invited Zola to take part in the establishment of HYDRA. Since around 1944, in Roger Stern's Marvel Universe series, Strucker would think of Zola in his ESP-box body - this would support that Zola had switched bodies at this point. 

By the way, Silver Sable's story of Zemo's meeting on April 30 was supported-she says a soldier in the bunker at the time later attested that the conversation that Zemo had took place, so this cannot be written off as a phony flashback. (Hitler, according to a soldier who was with him the day his original body died, supposedly recommended Zola's process to Baron Zemo ("like your Fhrer, Zemo, you will become... a God... Zola will see to that"). It appears that Zemo did not for some reason undergo the process. 

Zemo has appeared as a revenant or ghost a few times, so I would guess he (A) did not take Zola's cloned body back-up option (B) did, but got killed again, and somebody managed to destroy his back-ups (C) we have been seeing soul fragments of Zemo (see the Dark Angel series for an explanation of soul fragments) and he is still out there. 
 
Back to top        
 
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Posted: 02 Apr 2007 05:08 pm    
By Dhall

Quote: 
>>>
see the Dark Angel series for an explanation of soul fragments 
<<<

You won't get one that is coherent, I'm afraid. 
The Soul fragments from Dark Angel spend most of their time looking for their 'original soul' to reunite with. I'm not sure we can use the presence of a Soul Fragment as any kind of appearance in that series, but I'm open to argument on that point. Note that in one issue we see Guardian as a soul fragment, and it later turned out he wasn't even dead.

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Thread 26

Posted: 30 Mar 2007 01:03 am    Post subject: Spider-Man: Spirits of the Earth HC
By JLH

My second Gap book involving Scotland. I'm starting to think I'm becoming Paul O'Brien! 
------------------------------------ 
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: SPIRITS OF THE EARTH Hardcover [August 1990] 
Written and Illustrated by: Charles Vess 

Cast: 
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
PARKER, MAY REILLY 
WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE 
WHITE QUEEN/EMMA FROST (FB only) 
PIERCE, DONALD (FB only) 
SELENE (FB only) 
TESSA (FB only) 
DA COSTA, EMMANUEL (FB only) 
BLACK KING/SEBASTIAN SHAW (FB only) 

Other characters: 
Pair of purse snatchers (one named Louis) 
Mrs Mary MacLeod (BTS relative of MJ. Writes letter before she died) 
Sinclair, Alan (innkeeper) 
Munro, Angus (jerkweed and wannabe member of the Hellfire Club. Also in FB. Dies) 
Munro, Hugh (youngest member of the Munro Clan, nephew of Angus) 
Munro, Sir Hugh (grandfather of Angus and Hugh. Dies) 
Mairi 
Hellfire Club soldier guys 


Summary: Know how Spider-Man is such a city-dweller? Well, let's put him in a rural Scotland setting! So, MJ's long estranged Aunt leaves her some property in Lochalsh, Scotland, which leads to her and Peter going on a brief vacation there while attempting to sell the land. It seems ghosts, or faeries, have been haunting the land, even capturing the young laird of the Munro Clan! Bumping into the missing boy's arsehole uncle, well-meaning grandfather, and a mystic witchy woman named Mairi, Spider-Man decides to investigate, encounters the ghosts himself. There's more exploration of the "spirits of the earth" when Peter and Mary Jane meet with Mairi, who despite appearing all evil is actually good. See, the ghosts are causing everyone to want to sell their land. And when the ghosts lead the mobbing villagers to Spidey lurking in the shadows, and they think he's a spider-demon. He runs from them, encountering mean little doggies and stubborn cattle. He's used to the city, ya see. Can't swing from webs that well around there. So, to cut to the chase, uncle Angus is behind the hologram "ghosts", trying to get rid of everyone in the village in his ploy to access a giant crystal under the Munro castle, which will be used to harness into a weapon of vibratory destruction. Plus, he'll get to be part of the Hellfire Club's Inner Circle! So, he had his nephew kidnapped. Grandpa finds out, and dies. Spidey fights the Hellfire Club soldiers, and Angus, and with help from MJ and Mairi's mystical encouragement, destroys the crystal and saves the boy. Angus jumps into the river and blows up, thanks to them Earthly spirits. Or something. All in all, the most beautifully drawn Scooby Doo story ever! 


Flashback: "years ago" Angus discovers a book on his ancestor, Duncan Munro, who helped found the Hellfire Club. He explores a cave under the castle, finds the giant crystal, takes a ship to New York, and meets with the Inner Circle of the Hellfire Club. 

Continuity notes: Pete & MJ aren't living with May at this time, and are married. This trip is a "sort of second honeymoon." 

Spidey mentions hanging out with Doctor Strange a "couple of times" in the past. Not important, but I'm in need of mentioning something! 

This book, with its watercolor painting, took "two years" to complete. I've opted to try and place it closer to date of conception, but it doesn't matter all that much. 

I can't be 100% on the Inner Circle members shown in the FB. Emma's obvious, Donald Pierce as well. Selene's not quite wearing her normal bustier, but the hair looks right enough. There's no coloring or anything, though. I mean, the chubbier member, whom I figure is Emmanuel Da Costa (from the reference pic I'd found, he was rather portly, but another I'd seen had him skinnier and balder), could be Leland, which would mean pushing back the placement. I'm not sure, I just know Angus' plot to gain the crystal shouldn't have taken TOO many years to come to fruition. Anyone wants a scan of the panel they appear, let me know. 


Goofs: In one panel, Faeries is listed as "Faeiries". 

The spelling changes from "Munro" to "Munroe" in the middle of the book for a few pages, then back again! 

Why does Peter not believe in ghosts, after all he's seen? Selective amnesia? 

Mary Jane's name is spelled "Maryjane" in one odd word balloon. 

------------------------------------ 

Placement's anyone's guess, let me know if I goofed in where I stuck it (since I mainly just wanted it to be prior to Spidey getting his cosmic powers). 

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
... 
WOSM 50 
**ASM:SOTE 
ASM 315 
... 

WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE 
... 
WOSM 50 
**ASM:SOTE 
ASM 315 
... 


PARKER, MAY REILLY 
... 
WOSM 50 
**ASM:SOTE 
ASM 315 
... 


WHITE QUEEN/EMMA FROST 
... 
UX 210 
**ASM:SOTE-FB 
NM 51 
... 

PIERCE, DONALD 
... 
M/GN 4 
**ASM:SOTE-FB 
UX 245-BTS 
... 

DA COSTA, EMMANUEL 
... 
NM 23 
**ASM:SOTE-FB 
UX 272 
... 

SELENE 
... 
UX 210 
**ASM:SOTE-FB 
NM 51 
... 

TESSA 
... 
UX 210 
**ASM:SOTE-FB 
NM 51 
... 

BLACK KING/SEBASTIAN SHAW 
... 
AF 43 
**ASM:SOTE-FB 
NM 51 
...

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 08:05 am    
By Enda80

Danu gets invoked by Dark Mairi for power. Danu, of course, represents another name for Gaea (she was worshipped as such as far back as the Thurian Era).

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 Apr 2007 10:54 am    
By Lucifer

I don't think Selene and Donald Pierce were part of the Hellfire Club at the same time. 

In Marvel Graphic Novel 4 the New Mutants are formed and they fight Pierce. Pierce has also captured Tessa and wants to take control of the Hellfire Club. In the end Tessa takes care of him (whatever that means) because he is a danger to the Hellfire Club. 

Pierce isn't shown as part of the Hellfire Club in the following years. He shows up again as leader of the Reavers in Uncanny X-men 247. 

Selene joins the hellfire Club in Uncanny X-Men 189. The New mutants are already active by then. 

So either this FB happens before M/GN 4 when Pierce is still a member of the Hellfire Club and the woman shown here isn't Selene. Which also makes Emmanuel Da Costa's appereance impossible, because he joins after M/GN 4. Maybe it is Leland after all. 

Or the FB happens where you've placed it and it isn't Pierce. Or maybe Pierce joined again and left again, which wouldn't make sense to me.

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 Apr 2007 11:40 am    
By JD

Lucifer wrote: 
>>>
So either this FB happens before M/GN 4 when Pierce is still a member of the Hellfire Club and the woman shown here isn't Selene. Which also makes Emmanuel Da Costa's appereance impossible, because he joins after M/GN 4. Maybe it is Leland after all. 
<<<

Maybe the woman is Tessa ? The panel is very muddy, it's difficult to say...

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 Apr 2007 11:58 am    
By jephyork
Director

Emmanuel DaCosta is black and Leland is white. Is the panel really *that* muddy, that nobody can tell which one of them it is? 

(Also: is this book available in softcover too? Or just HC?) 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 Apr 2007 12:23 pm    
By JD

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Emmanuel DaCosta is black and Leland is white. Is the panel really *that* muddy, that nobody can tell which one of them it is? 
<<<

Yes. 

[edit] Actually, it looks more like Friedrich von Roehm. Who causes the same problems as DaCosta...

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 Apr 2007 01:32 pm    
By Lucifer

Judging by the hairstyle and outfit that is indeed Pierce next to Emma. Emma is the only one I'm 100% sure of btw. 

I'd guess the woman in the back would be Tessa. 

The chubby man looks kind of like Leland to me. Can't see his beard from this angle, but the receding hairline fits the picture I have here of him during the Dark Phoenix Saga. So does the outfit. Although I first thought it was chesthair in this pic, oops. 

The other man would then be Shaw? Can't recognize him at all. 
And who is the woman on the far left? 

If my guesses are right I'd place this shortly before M/GN 4. Big 'if' with this nice picture 

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 Apr 2007 09:29 pm    
By JLH

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
(Also: is this book available in softcover too? Or just HC?) 
<<<

It was reprinted as a softcover in about 1993.

			*	*	*

Thread 27

Posted: 04 Apr 2007 02:33 am    Post subject: Web of Spider-Man Annual #10
By JLH

The final Web Annual, cobbing up the Gap! 

------------------------------------ 
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN ANNUAL #10 [(May) 1994] 
Story 1: 
"Shriek, Rattle and Roll" 
Plotter: Terry Kavanagh 
Scripter: Mike Lackey 
Penciler: Jerry Bingham 
Inker: Tom Palmer 

Cast: 
SHRIEK/SANDRA DEEL/FRANCES LOUISE BARRISON 
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
KAFKA, DR. ASHLEY 
JAMESON, COL. JOHN 
REYNARD 
WARRANT II/GRAY GARRISON 
WEBBER 
PYROMANIA 
GALE 
MAYHEM/DET. BRIGID O'REILLY 
VERMIN/EDWARD WHELAN 

Other characters: 
Ted & Fred (Ravencroft guards) 
Barker (Ravencroft guard and mole for Reynard) 


Summary: So, Ravencroft has been getting a renovation and upgrade lately. It's not entirely finished, nor up to full staff yet, but Shriek and a few others are being moved in already. Spider-Man expresses his concerns to Dr Kafka, and luckily, John Jameson is head of security, keeping the prisoners and guards in line. Reynard, hired by the government to trouble-shoot any problems with the new place, has his bounty hunter Warrant prepared to go into action should a prison break occur. He even has an informant on the inside getting proof of all kinds of indiscretions. Said guy, Barker, gets manipulated by Shriek enough to tap into his negative energy and break free of her bonds. She then starts freeing a group of equally nutso supervillains, such as Webber, Gale, Pyromania, and Mayhem. While a lock-down proceeds, Spider-Man and John prepare to meet Shriek's new "family" should they escape. Despite some problems with Mayhem, who has at least a shred of morality and opposes them for a moment, they do break out, and the fighting begins. Working together, John and Spidey take down the mismatched inmates. The crisis averted and lessons learned security wise, Dr Kafka thanks Spider-Man for keeping Ravencroft from getting shut down before it can fully restart. As with Edward Whelan, the former Vermin who now works there and tried his best to keep Kafka safe during the breakout, Spidey hopes she'll be able to properly help and reform more of them. Barker's been found out by John, and Shriek now has a thing for Spider-Man, whose anguish she tasted and enjoyed especially! 


Continuity notes: This has to follow WOSM 112, since that sets up the new Ravencroft unveiled here, among other things (not to mention a footnote in that issue mentions this one). 

Maximum Carnage is said by a guard to have been "last year". 

A footnote places the second story of this Annual as having happened prior to this main story, in relation to Warrant and Reynard. 

A footnote mentions ASM 390 "on sale now", as following up on Shriek's new obsession with Spidey. 


------------------ 
Story 2: 
"Daze and Confusion" 
Plot: Terry Kavanagh 
Script: Joey Cavalieri 
Breakdowns: Alex Saviuk 
Finishes: Don Hudson 

Cast: 
DAZE 
WARRANT II/GRAY GARRISON 
REYNARD 

Other characters: 
Senator Gaines 
Gaines' guards 
The Fold (BTS) 

Summary: A madman with the power of super hypnotism, known as Daze, has taken over the office of Senator Gaines, turning his own guards and workers against him! After forcing the Senator to write a suicide note, he's then aided in preparing to leap out of the multi-story window. But luckily, Gaines, aware of the attempt on his life ahead of time, hired Warrant, the bounty hunter. Using his stun charges and cybernetic such & such, Warrant saves the Senator and stops Daze in his tracks. Reynard, Warrant's boss/partner, injects Daze with a little truth serum, and learns he was hired by the underworld and politicians' cabal called the Fold. Warrant and Reynard consider the payment opportunities of bringing down such a group, but are simply glad this job for Gaines will act as a successful first mission for their company, Warrant, Inc. 


Continuity notes: As I said elsewhere, this story takes place prior to the main tale. 

The Fold was also involved with, and shown in partial shadow mostly, in the Nightwatch series. Which is coincidentally up next for my Gap analysis! 


------------------ 
Story 3: 
"Tabula Rasa" 
Writer: Mike Lackey 
Penciler: Sergio Cariello 
Inker: Keith Williams 

Cast: 
BLACK CAT/FELICIA HARDY 
BLACK FOX II/ 


Other characters: 
Borovian Royal Family (BTS) 
crook 

Summary: Black Cat comes home one snowy night and finds the famed cat burgler called the Black Fox going through her underwear drawer. He's not merely a dirty old man, he's just stealing a necklace back from her, having been hired by its rightful owner. She already gave all things she stole back years ago, and chases after him across rooftops and through busy streets, even losing it briefly to a common crook! Cat recovers it with the toss of a garbage can cover, but once again the struggle between her and Fox resumes. Even though she eventually believes his intention, she feels she should be the one to return it, not to mention she thinks herself a better burglar than he ever was. Black Fox tricks her into helping him up after he seemingly is injured, and he takes off with the necklace. Defeated, Black Cat finds one good thing about the situation, with the necklace gone, she's officially a blank slate, all ties to her former life as a criminal now gone. 


Continuity notes: Black Fox mentions he's fought Spider-Man and Doctor Doom. 

The final panel mentions the upcoming Black Cat mini-series, titled "Chimera Lost". 

Strangely, as far as I know, this was Black Fox's final appearance to date (for all we know, he slipped on some ice and busted his skull on his way to deliever the necklace to its owners). 


------------------ 
Story 4: 
"The Power Of Resistance" 
Writer: Joey Cavalieri 
Artist: Vince Giarrano 

Cast: 
PROWLER/HOBIE BROWN 
RESISTOR 
BROWN, ABE 


Other characters: 
Members of the Broken Skulls gang 


Summary: One night, Prowler spots some young teen boys, members of a local gang, up to no good. Why, they're dealing in experimental high tech guns! One of the kids he recognizes as a former student of his brother's dojo, and tries to convince him of the errors of his ways. But he's taken by surprise by one of the disorientation guns, and captured. Turns out the gang is doing grunt work for a former A.I.M. scientist calling himself the Resistor. No, he's not Silvermane, he just looks like him. Anyway, Prowler gets free, and chases after the villain once he jettisons from his "just for show" giant robot suit. Once Resistor is captured, the kid is convinced to go back to the Sons of the Tiger Martial Arts Studio to pursue a life outside of crime. 


------------------------------------ 

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
... 
ASMU 6/3 
**WOSM@ 10 
S-M 46 
... 

SHRIEK/SANDRA DEEL/FRANCES LOUISE BARRISON 
... 
PPTSS 203 
**WOSM@ 10 
ASM 390 
... 

KAFKA, DR. ASHLEY 
... 
WOSM 112 
**WOSM@ 10 
ASM 390 
... 

JAMESON, COL. JOHN 
... 
WOSM 112 
**WOSM@ 10 
WOSM 114 
... 

**REYNARD 
WOSM 110 
WOSM 111 
WOSM 112 
WOSM@ 10/2 
WOSM@ 10 
NIGHTW 4 
SM:AP 2-BTS 

WARRANT II/GRAY GARRISON 
... 
WOSM 112 
**WOSM@ 10/2 
**WOSM@ 10 
**NIGHTW 4 
[Arachnis Project 1, 2] 

**WEBBER 
WOSM@ 10 

**PYROMANIA 
WOSM@ 10 

**GALE 
WOSM@ 10 

MAYHEM/DET. BRIGID O'REILLY 
... 
WOSM@ 9/2 
**WOSM@ 10 

VERMIN/EDWARD WHELAN 
... 
PPTSS@ 13 
**WOSM@ 10 
WOSM 117 
... 

**DAZE 
WOSM@ 10/2 

BLACK CAT/FELICIA HARDY 
... 
PPTSS 211-BTS 
**WOSM@ 10/3 
BCAT 1 
... 

BLACK FOX II/ 
... 
SSWP 20 
**WOSM@ 10/3 

PROWLER/HOBIE BROWN 
... 
PPTSS@ 13/4 
**WOSM@ 10/4 
NT2 16 
... 

**RESISTOR/ 
WOSM@ 10/4 

BROWN, ABE 
... 
PPTSS@ 13/4 
**WOSM@ 10/4

			*	*	*

Thread 28

Posted: 02 May 2006 06:04 am    Post subject: I (heart) Marvel (one-shots)
By JLH

Starting this thread to post all of the five one-shots in one place, one at a time over the next few days. 

------------------------------------ 

I (heart) MARVEL: MASKED INTENTIONS #1 [May 2006] 
For the record, the indicia does indeed list all the specials as "I (heart) Marvel". 

I should note: the cover doesn't even remotely resemble the stories within. There's a giant green lizard man in a lab coat near a massive castle, and Speedball fighting some odd villain in a jungle, and Squirrel Girl is barely recognizable in a new costume! 

First Story: 
"First Kiss" 
Writer: Fabian Nicieza 
Pencils: Paco Medina 

Cast: 
SQUIRREL GIRL/DOREEN GREEN 
SPEEDBALL/ROBBIE BALDWIN 
FLATMAN/VAL VENTURA 
MR. IMMORTAL/CRAIG HOLLIS 
TIPPY-TOE 
BUG-EYED VOICE/ARTHUR BIGELOW 

Other characters: 
Crowd of fans 
Several cops 
Speedball's manager-BTS (mentioned to have alerted the FBI over Squirrel Girl's obsessive fanmail to him) 

Summary: Squirrel Girl is in love with Speedball, one of the stars of the New Warriors reality show that's such a big hit right now. Her pet/sidekick Tippy-Toe finds her obsession amusing and hopeless. But Speedball's soon going to be visiting the University of Wisconsin in Madison, not far from the GLX HQ in Milwaukee, and Squirrel Girl has plans to get him to notice her. She tries to ask advice of her teammates, Flatman & Mr Immortal, as they "train" on the couch (playing video games together). When told of the situation (without naming names), Mr. Immortal suggests she just walk up and introduce herself instead of coming up with an elaborate scheme of them pretending to be bad guys she can defeat to save the day and gain Speedball's attention. She finds this stupid, and storms off, which Flatman chalks up to teenage hormones. Days later, Speedball meets his adoring fans, all of which are teenage girls. Squirrel Girl watches from a tree, when she notices the only male in the crowd, a shady character who turns out to be Speedball's old enemy... the Bug-Eyed Voice! Squirrel Girl spots the fiend, beats the tar out of him, and thanks to the crowd of fans around Speedball, the only people to notice her heroic actions are the police, who threaten to charge her with aggravated assault for beating up a guy armed only with paintball guns. She's let go and BEV is held until the celeb can leave town. At sunset, Squirrel Girl returns to GLX HQ, hanging her head in shame, when Speedball appears! He heard about what she did, and thanks her not only for that, but for all the fan mail she's sent. He gives her a kiss, and just like in her daydreams, he admits he likes the taste of hazelnuts, which her lips are said to taste like. He departs, Squirrel Girl is estactic, and it turns out Tippy-Toe was the one who secretly called Speedball to tell him about the whole incident. 



Continuity notes: Has Squirrel Girl's name been mentioned as being "Doreen Green" before? Because it's confirmed as such on the recap page. Similarly, in case there was any doubt, she makes clear she's a teenager. 

Squirrel Girl's room is filled with every bit of New Warriors' reality show merchandise you can think of... including an issue of "Pulse" with Speedball on the cover. 


Goofs: Didn't the New Warriors' reality show get canceled? Because it's repeatedly referred to in the present tense as a big ratings' hit. Perhaps this takes place before it ends? 

Strangely, in the recap, Squirrel Girl calls the team she's on "Great Lakes Avengers", but in the story, she mentions that name and corrects it to "Great Lakes X-Men". 

Major artist mistake this whole issue? Squirrel Girl lacks her distinctive eye-markings! 

In the recap, Squirrel Girl claims she wanted to join New Warriors years ago, but Fabian quit the book first. The thing I find mistaken in that is... well, in the whole story, she acts like she loves Speedball because he's on TV. He's a huge star and such. Never once does she mention the fact he's been a superhero for years, just like she is. 

Squirrel Girl leaves the University at sunset, seems to be walking the whole way, and arrives at GLX HQ (which is in another city) still at sunset. Even if she had means of transport, how did Speedball catch up so quickly? 

Similarly, how did Tippy-Toe know about Squirrel Girl defeating the BEV if she stayed behind? And how did Tippy-Toe call Speedball? She can't speak, and it's said she can't read so writing is likely out of the picture. 


Calendar notes: All trees seen are fully green, and pretty full in fact. Though in a few shots of the Bug-Eyed Voice, some of those green leaves are falling and the weather seems to be short sleeve weather mostly. 

Timeframe: 
Page 1: The recap page, where Squirrel Girl breaks the fourth wall and introduces Justice, Firestar, and Speedball to us. 
Pages 2-5: Squirrel Girl fantasizes of Speedball. Tippy-Toe laughs at her. She asks Mr Immortal & Flatman for advice. 
Pages 6-11: "Days later" Speedball appears as the University of Wisconsin, Squirrel Girl beats Bug-Eyed Voice. At sunset, Speedball follows Squirrel Girl to GLX HQ, kisses her and leaves. 

------------ 

Second Story: 
"Last Date" 
Writer: Fabian Nicieza 
Pencils: Mike Norton 

Cast: 
JUSTICE II/VANCE ASTROVIK 
FIRESTAR/ANGELICA JONES 
WHIRLWIND/DAVID CANNON 
JUPITER 
JONES, BART 

Other characters: 
"Weddings by Tifa" planner 
Mitch & his pal with the Nike product placement ad on his shirt 
Minister from the Alliance Unification Church 
Unseen person in the Raft who comments that Whirlwind is back. 


Summary: In Manhattan, above the Queensborough Bridge, Justice stops a bank robbery by Whirlwind, returning the long-winded villain to the prison known as the Raft with a burst of telekinetic energy. This causes him to run late in meeting with his fiance, Firestar, but luckily, her class at Empire State University is also running late. The pair head off to "Weddings by Tifa", and meet with the very long-winded wedding planner. Justice's to-do list is still very long, though Firestar seems very concerned about the price, and not very excited about anything at all, really. He promises to take care of all the details so she can focus on her school work. He departs (publicly displaying his powers, something she wishes she could do), and Firestar is "in a funk" for two days after. Thursday night, to try to cheer her up, her dorm mate Jupiter brings two guys in to be her "boy toys who are dying of some disease they want the girls to fulfill for them". Meanwhile, Justice visits Firestar's father on Staten Island. There he discusses how he feels he's ready for the next stage in his life and feels Angelica isn't. Bart Jones suggests merely that if she's not ready for marriage to wait for her or move on. Next morning, at the Alliance Unification Church on Staten Island, Justice meets the minister alone. He tries to reach Firestar on her cellphone, but she's drunk and passed out in her bed, nearly naked, while Jupiter is in the other bed naked with one of the guys in it with her. Later, on the Queensborough bridge, Justice awaits in costume, and Firestar arrives, also in costume, and lies about her cell battery dying to explain why she wasn't there that morning. He shows her one of the invitations they saw, which he had to pick out because time to get them printed was running out. He also picked out the flowers and her dress, and complains he's the woman in this relationship, and he knows she doesn't want to get married. She doesn't deny it, admitting that they're both a lot of things: mutants, superheroes, Avengers, New Warriors, and now to be a wife? She just wants to be "normal". He finds the irony in it considering they just flew to the top of the bridge. Anyway, if they're not getting married, what are they doing? Justice wants more in his life, she wants less. Firestar has to go, but promises to call him later. He's pretty sure she won't, and flies off. She takes one last look at the invitation to the wedding, leaves it on the bridge, flies off, and soon the invite goes spinning into the wind. 



Continuity notes: As I said, the Raft is back in working order in this story, if that helps any or not. 

Justice claims he and Firestar still receive an "Avengers stipend". 

According to this story, Justice is 22 years old, working for the Childwatch Foundation; and Firestar is 19, a Freshman at ESU. 

Justice's killing of his father is mentioned quite a few times. The recap page, Whirlwind brings it up, Firestar mentions the trial was televised (as well as the subject of a "Dateline" special and had four books written about it). 


Goofs: Not really a mistake, but, how much you wanna bet when next Justice & Firestar appear (most likely during Civil War), they're back to being the closest couple ever and the engagment is back on? Not that it's impossible, far from it, but the whole purpose of this horribly cynical story seems to be to break them up. 

Can I say? I find it amusing there's a poster for the movie "Say Anything" in Firestar's dorm room, visible when she's about to clearly cheat on her fiancee. Hypocrisy! It's what's for dinner! 


Calendar notes: Firestar's "bachelorette party" is on Thursday night, she's said to have been in a funk for "two days". The meeting with the minister is said to be on Friday. I split up the story in the timeframe simply because of Justice saying "Friday" instead of merely "tomorrow", but it's entirely possible that it's all on Thursday and the "funk" predates the scene change. I mean, Vance wears the same outfit Thursday night he did earlier in the story (though Firestar and Jupiter have on new clothes), but he's wearing it on Friday morning as well! Anyway, trees are green and full, and weather is mostly long-sleeved. 

Timeframe: 
Pages 12-15 panel 3: Presumably Tuesday, Justice defeats Whirlwind, meets up with Firestar after class, then visit the wedding planner. 
Pages 15 panel 4 through 17 panel 4: Two days later, Thursday night. Firestar has her "bachelorette party" with Jupiter and two dopey guys. Justice meets with her father. 
Pages 17 panel 5 through 22: Friday. In the morning, Firestar misses the meeting with the minister because she's still asleep from her night of partying. That afternoon, Justice confronts her at the bridge, it seems as though they break up. 


------------------------------------ 

SQUIRREL GIRL/DOREEN GREEN 
... 
[GLX-MAS] 
**I(h)M:MI 1 

SPEEDBALL/ROBBIE BALDWIN 
... 
[New Warriors v.3] 
**I(h)M:MI 1 

FLATMAN/VAL VENTURA 
... 
[GLX-MAS] 
**I(h)M:MI 1 

MR. IMMORTAL/CRAIG HOLLIS 
... 
[GLX-MAS] 
**I(h)M:MI 1 

TIPPY-TOE 
... 
[GLX-MAS] 
**I(h)M:MI 1 

**BUG-EYED VOICE/ARTHUR BIGELOW 
**SB 6 
**NW 66-FB 
**NW 66 
**I(h)M:MI 1 

JUSTICE II/VANCE ASTROVIK 
... 
[New T-Bolts #12?] 
**I(h)M:MI 1/2 

FIRESTAR/ANGELICA JONES 
... 
[New T-Bolts #12?] 
**I(h)M:MI 1/2 

WHIRLWIND/DAVID CANNON 
... 
[She Hulk v.4 #2?] 
**I(h)M:MI 1/2 

JUPITER 
... 
NW 61 
**I(h)M:MI 1/2 

JONES, BART 
... 
NO2 17 
**I(h)M:MI 1/2

Last edited by JLH on 02 May 2006 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 May 2006 08:27 am    
By JD

JLH wrote: 
>>>
Goofs: Didn't the New Warriors' reality show get canceled? Because it's repeatedly referred to in the present tense as a big ratings' hit. Perhaps this takes place before it ends? 
<<<

In CIVIL WAR #1 (previewed in NA:Illuminati), it is stated that they were granted a second season, in the middle of which the ill-fated incident happened. So it could be happening a bit before that. 
On the other hand, CW#1 also states that the episodes before the incident were a bit lackluster, so I'm not sure the beginning of the 2nd season would be such a success.

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 May 2006 09:15 am    
By jephyork
Director

Eh, teenage girls will watch any old crap. 

On a personal note, I reeeally hope Firestar didn't cheat on Justice... 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 May 2006 06:40 am    
By JLH

I (heart) MARVEL: OUTLAW LOVE #1 [April 2006] 
"Outlaw Love Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry" 
Writer: Fabian Nicieza 
Artist: Jon Proctor 

Cast: 
ANSWER/AARON NICHOLSON (also in Flashback) 
RUBY THURSDAY/THURSDAY RUBINSTEIN (also in Flashback) 
BULLSEYE II/BENJAMIN POINDEXTER 
BOOMERANG/FRED MYERS 
WIZARD/BENTLEY WITTMAN 
SISTER RAUNCH (only one of the five visible Sisters of Sin named) 
SISTER SIN 
SISTER SLASH 
SISTER TORSO 
SISTER HOODWINK 

Other characters: 
Advanced Ideas Mechanics (Ruby runs a scam on them, and someone from there hires Bullseye to kill her) 
Unnamed female patron of the Back Room bar 
Detective Burnings (Cleveland Police) 


Summary: The Answer's hanging out at the Back Room bar in Cleveland, playing "Strip Q'n'A" with the genetically accelerated children known as the Sisters of Sin. They're all idiots and he has all the answers, but he's pretty much depressed and in a rut, not enjoying the situation at all, he's just passing time. Ruby Thursday shows up, wanting the answer to a question from him. Seems they have a history together, one he's eager to reconnect, but the computer-headed woman refuses. He agrees to help her for a discounted price, she wants to access the procurement budget for AIM. He gets it for her, and two weeks later, he ends up with a black card with Bullseye's symbol on it in his mailbox. He asks around his fellow villains as to who would want him dead Wizard denies he's behind it, since people come to Answer with questions but come to him for solutions. He contacts Boomerang as well, offering him fifty freebies for info, only to find out he hasn't a clue either. Answer realizes he has to ask the only woman he loves. She's currently in Bethesda running a scam on AIM using the info Answer got her to know how much they'll pay for something, underbid just enough, sell them on her front company, get a small advance, and make a break for it. He IMs her, trying to talk, but she stiffs him again. He's left with plenty of questions, but no answers. As he begins to pack up his apartment to leave town, Bullseye fires upon the place. Answer uses his special abilities to make an escape, and he's surprised when he manages to avoid getting hit by the supposedly perfect marksman. Just as he suspects, after about two days, Ruby calls his place, finding it's been taken over by the police. She calls the bar, finds out he hasn't been seen in days, and calls Boomerang, who mentions Answer called a few days ago asking about Bullseye wanting to kill him. Answer shows up in Ruby's hotel room seemingly moments later. He reveals that Bullseye never wanted him, but intended to kill her instead. Turns out Answer gave in and told Bullseye where she was, and he flings a compact disc (Rolling Stones' "Flashpoint") into her chest. He scolds her for running the exact same scam on AIM using five different identities. As she dies, Bullseye uses a menu from a Ruby Tuesday's restaurant to chop off her head, which, according to their deal, Answer gets to keep. Bullseye agrees, since, according to Answer, Ruby moved all her backup systems into her chest cavity after the last time her head got crushed. The assassin departs, assured Answer wouldn't be stupid enough to lie to him. Over the next few weeks, Answer purposely gets answers wrong, trying to ruin his own reputation, all as part of his cover. In actuality, he's got Ruby's head with him, and only he knows she actually still keeps her backups in her head. He's unaware of how to jack in to her system, but it doesn't matter. She left him once in Paris, since leaving is what she does, and now he's got her in a position to never leave him again. 


Flashback: One panel. Page 17, panel 1. Shows the Answer and Ruby Thursday, in Paris during their two month job together some time ago. 


Continuity notes: Has Answer's name of Aaron Nicholson been revealed before? It's not listed in the MCP. 

It's mentioned Bush is the president, but that's a topical thing, of course. 

Ruby Thursday uses the alias of "Angela Jagger" in her AIM scheme this issue. 


Goofs: The Answer is nothing like his personality in his previous appearance in Toxin #3. No speaking in questions! And according to his fact file thing on the first page, he's currently the "go-to" answer-man for the super-villain community... essentially he's become DC's Calculator. Seems as though he got out of Ryker's since we last saw him. 

The "intro" page, which lists names and abilities of Bullseye, Ruby, and Answer features one glaring mistake: Ruby Thursday's name is listed the same as her codename. 

I personally find the artwork and coloring a horrible combination. Answer's costume in this is nearly identical to Bullseye's thanks to the shoulder to shoulder stripes. The women are even worse, Ruby Thursday with the human head looks just like all the Sisters of Sin nearby. Don't get me started on how all three "main" characters' mug shots have them all equally at 75 inches tall. 

When the Answer's packing up the stuff in his apartment, he's carrying a TV... and someone in the production decided to superimpose an image so that it appears the TV is turned on while he's carrying it in his arm with no plugs attached or anything. The hell? 


Calendar notes: I think I covered it all below. 

Timeframe: 
Page 1: The recap page. 
Pages 2-6: Cleveland, night. Full moon. Answer plays with Sisters of Sin at Back Room bar. Ruby Thursday seeks AIM info from him. 
Pages 6: Two weeks after he gets her the answer (how long that took isn't said), Answer discovered a card with Bullseye's trademark on it in his mailbox the day prior. 
Pages 7-8: That night, maybe, he contacts Wizard in Groton, then Boomerang in New York. 
Pages 9-11: Likely that same night. It's snowing in Bethesda, but there's no snow on the ground and all the trees are green and full, and the grass is fine. Ruby Thursday is staying at the Marriott, Answer IMs her but gets nowhere. 
Pages 12-15 panel 1: Full moon again. Probably the same night as the previous two scenes. Answer packs up, when Bullseye attacks. 
Pages 15 panel 2 to page 20: At least "two days, tops" have passed. Still snowing in Bethesda. Ruby contacts Answer's apartment, now overrun with cops. She calls the Back Room and Boomerang, then Answer shows up, Bullseye "kills" her, cuts off her head. Full moon. 
Pages 21-22: "weeks" later. Answer has been screwing up his rep on purpose. Returns to Back Room bar, then departs town with Ruby's head still in his possession. 

------------------------------------ 

The MCP stuff... I placed the flashback during a point when there's a huge gap in both their histories. I suppose it could go anywhere, really. 

ANSWER/AARON NICHOLSON 
... 
PPTSS 96 
[Lethal Foes of Spidey stuff] 
**I(h)M:OL 1-FB 
[New Avengers stuff] 
TOXIN 3 
**I(h)M:OL 1 

RUBY THURSDAY/THURSDAY RUBINSTEIN 
... 
M/CP 97/4 
**I(h)M:OL 1-FB 
DLOK2 2 
... 
DEF2 10 
**I(h)M:OL 1 

SISTER RAUNCH 
From Sister Pleasure 
CA 355 
CA 356 
CA 357 
**I(h)M:OL 1 

SISTER SIN 
From Mother Superior 
CA 356 
CA 357 
CA 394 
**I(h)M:OL 1 

SISTER SLASH 
From Sister Agony 
CA 355 
CA 356 
CA 357 
**I(h)M:OL 1 

SISTER TORSO 
From Sister Death 
CA 356 
CA 357 
**I(h)M:OL 1 

SISTER HOODWINK 
From Sister Dream 
CA 356 
CA 357 
**I(h)M:OL 1 

BOOMERANG/FRED MYERS 
... 
[She-Hulk v.4 #1?] 
**I(h)M:OL 1 

WIZARD/BENTLEY WITTMAN 
... 
[Cable/Deadpool #25-FB?] 
**I(h)M:OL 1 

BULLSEYE II/BENJAMIN POINDEXTER 
... 
[Bullseye vs Punisher stuff?] 
**I(h)M:OL 1

			*	*	*

Posted: 04 May 2006 10:42 am    
By JLH

I (heart) MARVEL: MARVEL AI #1 [April 2006] 

First story: 
"Meld with You" 
Writer: C.B. Cebulski 
Artist: Tomoko Taniguchi 

Cast: 
SCARLET WITCH/WANDA MAXIMOFF (also in Flashback) 
VISION II-FB 
BLACK WIDOW II/NATASHA ROMANOVA 
WASP/JANET VAN DYNE PYM 


Summary: Scarlet Witch returns to Avengers mansion, and upon arriving, her pals Wasp & Black Widow ambush her, forcing her to immediately spill the details of her first date with the android called Vision. She claims it was magical, and proceeds to tell the girls the story in flashback. It started off rough when he decided to go out on the date in his usual costume, the only thing he had to wear. But as they stepped out, he complimented her looks and went to touch her hand, only to have he pull back and shout. Seems his hand was too cold. He increased his body temperature, and she appreciated it. But things got cold again when it was revealed he was bringing her to Zanda's House of Secrets, a tarot card and palm reading business! He merely thought she'd like to go some place connected to her gypsy heritage, but she was peeved and returned the favor by dragging him down to CompuLand to visit some of his relatives. He understood her dismay in his choice, and they headed to dinner. Afterwards, they walked in the park and she admited to being confused about how to act around him since he's non-human. Vision pointed out she's a mutant, technically non-human too, and that human or not, his heart beats for her's. He admits he can feel, and blah blah romantic stuff, she asks him to heat up his lips so they can kiss. This wows the girls, and Scarlet Witch reiterates how magical the date was. 

Flashback: Most of the story is told in flashback. Vision only appears in said flashback, in fact. 


Continuity notes: Scarlet Witch tells Vision "We're doing on a date, Vizh, not fighting the Masters of Evil." He claims to have no other clothes, and suggests he might borrow some from Captain America or Hawkeye. 

I researched as to when Vision and Scarlet Witch got involved, and couldn't find much to help me. You guys would likely know better than I do. I did find on Uncannyx-men.net (Wanda's bio there), that this probably around AVENGERS 108 and 109. That seems to be when they really got involved and would have had a first date. There's a few problems, though. Neither Wasp nor Black Widow were part of the Avengers then! Sure, they might've dropped by to lend support. But the biggest mistake is Wasp's costume. I crosschecked it with the Wondrous Wasp site (http://www.geocities.com/ragnodimaggio/index.htm) and the costume here is the yellow and dark black/blue number she mostly used after May 1986, or during AVENGERS 274-277. I'm sure this could be ignored, though. 

I do find it hard to believe Tom Breevort was the editor (well, CO-editor) for this tale for it to have any Avengers' history mistakes like that. He's usually so studious in that regard! 


Goofs: Why doesn't Vision return to the mansion with Wanda? He lives there, too! 

Why is it there is no sign of any other human being in any of the shots outdoors? Did Wanda say "no more pedestrians" beforehand or something? 


Calendar notes: It's likely late Fall or early Winter in this tale. Trees all lack leaves and Wanda wears a coat on her date. 

Timeframe: 
Page 1: The titles page. Ai is Japanese for love, ya know. 
Pages 2 through 3 panel 2: Night at Avengers mansion. Trees are bare and leaf-less, sky is starry and clear. Scarlet Witch comes home to find Wasp & Black Widow anxiously waiting the tale of her first date with Vision. 
Pages 3 panel 3 through panel 5: Page 4: Flashback begins, at the mansion earlier that day, Vision thinks his normal costume is proper attire for the date. Scarlet Witch wears a trenchcoat when she and he go out, all trees are bare. He tries to hold her hand, but she resists until he raises his body temp. 
Page 5 panel 1: The flashback cuts off to show Wasp & BW all giddy, making "things heating up" remarks. 
Page 5 panel 2 through panel 6: Vision brings Wanda to Zanda's House of Secrets, to which she then brings him to CompuLand. 
Pages 6 through 8 panel three: After dinner, the pair walk in the park and discussion their feelings for one another, before kissing. Full moon, leaf-less trees again! 
Pages 6 panels four & five: The flashback's over, BW & Wasp get all heart-eyed. 

----------------- 

Second story: 
"The Silence of the Heart" 
Writer: C.B. Cebulski 
Artist: Kei Kobayashi 

Cast: 
MEDUSA/MEDUSALITH AMAQUELIN [INHUMAN] 
BLACK BOLT/BLACKANTOR BOLTAGON [INHUMAN] 


Summary: Medusa narrates info about her life, how many women love peace and quiet, being alone with themselves, and she isn't one of them, since her husband can't very well talk to her. She stresses how much she wishes to hear him make any sort of sound. Black Bolt appears and they get it on. But she's unhappy, since, despite how communication isn't a problem, and the obligations of being a Queen and an Inhuman are mild compared to the mere desire to NOT be left in peace and quiet. 


Continuity notes: Where is it the Inhumans are currently living? The only shot of the exterior "city" is a super futuristical looking place. 


Calendar notes: The story takes place all in relative time. Day to night, maybe. It's all in Medusa's royal room or whatever, and bedroom, so time isn't really measured by anything in it. 

----------------- 

Third story: 
"Love is Blindness" 
Writer: C.B. Cebulski 
Artist: toga 

Cast: 
DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK 
ELEKTRA/ELEKTRA NATCHIOS 
BLACK WIDOW II/NATASHA ROMANOVA 
PAGE, KAREN 


Summary: One day in New York, Daredevil and Elektra are hanging out on top of a building, getting all romantic in-costume. Suddenly, DD remembers he has a court date as Matt Murdock! They part, neither aware that a jealous Black Widow has been watching from the shadows. Once DD departs, she zaps Elektra with her powers, only to have the ninja girl leap out of the way. Angered, she fights back, and the two women lunge at one another with motion lines abound. Have I mentioned all word balloons lack words and instead have images, ala Artie from the X-Terminators? Anyway, some hair-pulling later, both girls are equally tuckered out. Suddenly, they spot Matt Murdock below, making time with Karen Page! Both of the women feel scorned, and the story ends with a BW bolt and an Elektra sai heading DD's way. 


Continuity notes: I can't for the life of me recall a time when Daredevil was seeing Elektra and Karen Page while Black Widow was still in the picture. DD, Elektra, and BW all wear their classic costumes. I really don't see this as being in continuity, unless it's for the Marvel Age or Mangaverse. 


Goofs: Matt appears unaware of the sai and bolt heading at him from behind. Since when is radar-sensed DD that clearly unaware of such a sneak attack? Bah. 


Calendar notes: It's daytime. It's New York. That's it.

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 May 2006 01:28 pm    
By jannepie

JLH wrote: 
>>>
Continuity notes: Has Answer's name of Aaron Nicholson been revealed before? It's not listed in the MCP. 
<<<

It was mentioned at least in New Avengers: Most Wanted Files.

			*	*	*

Posted: 06 May 2006 04:36 am
By JLH

I (heart) MARVEL: MY MUTANT HEART #1 [April 2006] 

First story: 
"The Promise" 
Writer: Daniel Way 
Artist: Ken Knudtsen 

Cast: 
WOLVERINE/LOGAN/JAMES HOWLETT (also in Flashback to 1943) 

Other characters: 
Catharina-FB (dies) 
Maier, Dr. Lukas-FB (his gravestone is seen in present day) 
Catharina's sisters-BTS-FB (their capture is the reason why Catharine does what she does) 
Guard who shoots Catharina (his silhouette is clearly that of a Nazi soldier, though no Nazi symbols nor any direct references to Nazis are made in this tale) 


Summary: Wolverine visits a grave at Zorgvlied Cemetery, Amsterdam, with a yellow locket in hand. He recalls back in 1943, when he was aided by a woman named Catharina, who gave him said locket, in infiltrating a Nazi lab. She betrayed him, causing Logan to get captured all to save the life of her family, only to have her killed in front of his eyes. He vowed to pay the scientist in charge of this, Dr. Maier, pay. As we see at the end, the doctor's indeed dead now, having passed away recently. Wolverine leaves the locket on his tombstone, implying he's to blame for the guy's death. 

Flashback: Most of the story's told in flashback! Read the summary already! 


Continuity notes: The MCP links to http://www.typingmonkeys.com/wolverine.html, and in researching the placement of this story, I checked what they had to say for placement. They have the flashback as taking place between UX 268 and W3 32. It makes sense, given W3 32 starts with Logan already in a prison camp during WWII, and this story ends with him captured by the Nazis. But to do that, the 1943 listing has to be ignored. 

As for the current day scenes, Wolverine's wearing his most recent yellow and blue costume. 


Calendar notes: The flashback takes place in 1943, over the course of what seems to be just a few hours. The present day scene seems to be even shorter than that. Dr. Lukas Maier's tombstone reads "1924-2006" (yes, that means he was a 19 year old scientist and seems quite older in the artwork). 

Timeframe: 
Page 1: Present day. Night. Trees are full, and vibrant, and just lovely. Wolverine visits grave in Amsterdam with locket in hand. 
Pages 2 through 3 panel 2: Flashback begins, Berlin 1943. Logan with Catharina in bed, getting locket. 
Page 3 panel 3: Present day shot, Wolvie in front of grave. 
Pages 4 through 6 panel 2: Logan infiltrates lab, gets caught, Catharina is revealed to be to blame. 
Page 6 panel 3: Present day. Wolvie's still standing there. How does this guy appear in 20 books a month if he's standing still this much? 
Pages 7 through 8 panel 2: Catharina is killed before his eyes. He remains locked up and gassed, and makes promise to pay Dr. Maier back. 
Page 8 panel 3: Dawn's on the horizon. Wolverine departs, leaving locket behind. 

----------------- 

Second story: 
"How Love Works" 
Writer: Peter Milligan 
Artist: Marcos Martin 

Cast: 
DOOP 

Other characters: 
Chandler (private investigator) 
James Gilray (suspicious husband) 
Brigit Gilray (skank) 


Summary: James Gilray thinks his wife may be cheating on him! It's a job for Chandler, PI: Infidelity Specialist. He follows the woman around and discovers the truth, she's cheating on her husband with a floating green mutant known as Doop. But Chandler makes the mistake of getting involved, and when Gilray finds the truth, the PI must stop him before he kills the person he's fallen in love with himself... that being Doop. They ride off with arms around each other, and I seriously am left wondering who the hell approved the entire notion of the "I (heart) Marvel" books to begin with. 


Continuity notes: Though the tale has a bit of a 50s noir style to it, the L.A. Times paper has a headline on the front page saying, "Masked Mutan.." so it's clearly in modern times. 

James Gilray wonders what a "Doop" is, and Chandler never seems to recognize him. I thought he was a celebrity? Maybe that's a clue! 


Calendar notes: Doop's been with Brigit for "a few weeks" when the story starts. Bushes and palm trees are all full. Short-sleeve weather, it's California most likely for the most of it. 

Timeframe: 
Page 9: James Gilray hires Chandler to find out if his wife is cheating on him. 
Page 10: Chandler tails James and Brigit all day into night. 
Page 11, panels 1-3: Next day, perhaps. Chandler spots her in a hotel room with Doop. 
Page 11, panels 4-6 through page 12, panels 1-4: Chandler's been tailing Brigit for "five days". James visits and is informed she's not cheating on him with any man. 
Page 12 panel 5 through page 13: Chandler trails Brigit & Doop to another hotel. Could be the same day. 
Page 14, panel 1: Chandler says that "days" pass, as we see Brigit and Doop at the beach. 
Page 14, panels 2 through page 16: It's said Brigit and Doop are at a hotel in Vegas they booked the night prior (which means a gap from that beach scene, that's for certain). At night, Gilray learns the truth, drunken Chandler follows him to hotel to stop him from killing Doop, rides off with the green potato. 

----------------- 

Third story: 
"My Girlfriend, the Thief!" 
Writer & Artist: Tim Fish 

Cast: 
CANNONBALL II/SAM GUTHRIE 
CHENEY, LILA 

Other characters: 
Lila's band, the Cat's Laughing 
Unnamed robot alien guy (intergalactic groupie) 

Summary: Cannonball worries his girlfriend, the intergalactic teleporter, former thief, and rock star, has returned to her old habits. His suspicions lead to a break of trust in their relationship, which he discovers to be unfounded, as all she's doing is taking a gig on another planet to pay for an anniversary present for him. He tries to make this mistake up to her, but his efforts are futile. Finally, while watching her perform at a club, an alien attacks! Sam defeats the creature, who was just trying to take her guitar to impress her fan club, and sends him back home with nothing. Cannonball's trust in Lila in this situation and his admitting of making a mistake wins her over, and they make up. 


Continuity notes: Cannonball has some lines around his face, apparently in an attempt to resemble stubble of some sort. Since there was a big discussion over his facial hair before, I figure I'd mention that. 

Sam's apartment is being fumigated, so he's staying with Lila in this story. Their anniversary is coming up, though the amount of time associated with it is never said. 


Goofs: The smiling cat on Sam's shirt vanishes between page 18 panel 5 and panel 6. 


Calendar notes: Way I figure it, this story covers a total of 7 days. How long does it take to fumigate an apartment, anyway? 

Timeframe: 
Pages 15 through 16: Night. Full moon. Coat weather. Sam follows Lila, and she teleports before he can find where she was heading. 
Pages 17 to 18, panel 5: Next day, perhaps. He searches for a few hours, finds Congrevean Love-Sphere she bought him, accuses her of stealing it, learns truth, Lila is mad. 
Page 18 panel 6: Montage shows four different events. In each one, Sam has on a different shirt. The center one, he's wearing the same outfit as in the previous scene, holding a bouquet of flowers. In the upper left of the panel, he is vacuuming while Lila reads and ignores him. The upper right side, Sam tries to woo her by playing a guitar and singing poorly but she storms out angrily. Bottom left, he leaves a train of rose petals to her bed with a present in a box at the center, which she sees. Bottom right, he cooks her something while she just stands around. 
Pages 19-22: One night, Sam visits her at a club while she plays with her band. A large alien teleports in, attacks Lila and accuses her of stealing his guitar. Sam beats the visitor back, points out he gave her that guitar and it has scratches to prove it. Alien admits he's just a groupie who wanted one of her guitars to show her fan club. He's sent home with nothing, and Lila & Sam make up.

			*	*	*

Posted: 09 May 2006 08:39 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Hey, JLH. Thanks for these analyses! You still up for Web of Romance? (Wait, that didn't sound right...)
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 10 May 2006 01:48 pm    
By JLH

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Hey, JLH. Thanks for these analyses! You still up for Web of Romance? (Wait, that didn't sound right...) 
<<<

No problem. And sure, though it'll be about a week, since I'm still awaiting that issue's arrival.

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 May 2006 02:35 pm    
By JLH

I (heart) MARVEL: WEB OF ROMANCE #1 [April 2006] 
"Web of Romance" 
Writer: Tom Beland 
Penciler: Cory Walker 

Cast: 
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE 
CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
CAGE, LUKE/CARL LUCAS 
IRON MAN/TONY STARK 
HUMAN TORCH II/JOHNNY STORM 
JARVIS, EDWIN 
PARKER, MAY REILLY 
MANDRILL/HENSLEY FARGUS 
DRAGON MAN 


Other characters: 
Several SHIELD agents 


Summary: Uh-oh, Valentine's Day is on the way, and Spider-Man doesn't know what to get his wife! He first asks Mandrill, that pheromone-riddled sex machine baboon, for some advice while he's got the villain strung up by webbing, but to no avail. Last year, MJ got him an iPod and all he got her was a picture frame. So he heads home to Stark Tower, grabs a cookie from the "First Gold Armor Iron Man cookie jar", and watches from the kitchen as Mary Jane hangs out with Captain America, Iron Man, and Luke Cage, viewing basketball on the usual "game night". Peter admires her tomboyness that guys like, and the fact she can associate with such legendary superheroes with such ease, while he himself still has trouble getting the courage to ask Cap to pass the salt at dinner. While showering, Pete recalls how with Gwen Stacy, she was always vulnerable, not streetwise and able to hold her own like MJ is known for. How MJ is a survivor and so much stronger then he'd be without the powers. Soon, in the garden, he lets her try on his old web-shooters, which she has a ball using on soda cans and such. She asks all the things he's made with the webbing, then asks if he ever "punk'd" anyone with it. He recalls doing so to Johnny Storm during his high school days, making a giant flying bat. MJ finds this especially amusing. 

Four days until V-Day, Pete's still clueless as to what to get MJ. While he, Luke Cage, and Captain America fight Dragon Man, Spidey asks Cage for advice on what to get. On the topic of chocolates, he reminds him of the post-chocolate guilt. After getting info from SHIELD, Cap announces Dragon Man is vulnerable to sonic attacks. Cage borrows Cap's shield, slams his steel-hard hand against it, creates a sonic burst, and takes the android out, though at the expense of the trio's hearing for an hour. SHIELD shows up to take Dragon Man away, and Luke Cage points out how tough it must be for Spidey to be married to a non-powered woman. Two days later, in the kitchen of Stark Tower, Pete finds Iron Man searching for where Jarvis has hid the Cheese-Its. He asks Tony for a favor in making the perfect gift for MJ, which he now knows what such a thing should be. On Valentine's Day, in the garden, Pete gives MJ her gift, a pair of silver bracelets, as well as a pair of fake thumbnails. When she holds out her hands and touches the tips of the fake thumbnails, the bracelets fire webbing! Tony helped modify Spidey's old web-shooters to make the trigger wireless, and though they have a limited amount of space for webbing cartridges, it's enough to help her get away if she's in trouble. His faith in her ability to take care of her self makes this the greatest thing anyone has ever given her, and she loves it. But there is one last thing he can do to make the night even more magical. They watch from the top of a building as Spidey sends another flying webbing bat after Johnny Storm, which he burns up and ends up covered in webbing as a result, promising to make Spidey fry for doing it. MJ finds this the funniest thing ever, and as Pete and she lie together watching the sky, Pete reflects on the full moon, which always makes him think about coming home to her, and how so many people have no one to go home to, and how that's as big a deal to him as having his powers. MJ then makes cracks involving the words "amazing", "spectacular", and "astonishing". 


Flashback: Just to Amazing Spider-Man #8/2, featuring nothing new whatsoever. 


Continuity notes: Obviously, this takes place after Spidey & Friends have moved in to Stark Tower, but well before Civil War. 

Did you know Steve Rogers has a picture of himself (as Captain America) with Joe DiMaggio? And that he apparently has a wallet sized shot he keeps on his civilian person at all times, in case someone should happen to bring up baseball? 

Spidey notes how Dragon Man is putting out more flame than usual, instead of the short bursts he normally does. 

Luke Cage calls Jessica Jones his "woman", that's as much info as is given about their relationship. 

This issue should very well mean MJ will now always wear a pair of silver bracelets in all appearances, but let's just see if they ever show up again. 

Johnny Storm has several expensive cars to choose from, meaning he's clearly not hurting for money here. 


Goofs: When Mandrill brings up the Spidey video game, Spidey claims MJ always plays it as Venom. Last I checked, Mary Jane was scared to death of even Pete wearing the black suit, this comment is beyond out of character. Strange that the writer knew about Jonathan Ceaser, but didn't know about that, considering it's from that same era. 

Peter claims "all" of MJ's friends have been male. That's not completely true at all. Yeah, yeah, hyperbole... 

Pete claims he hasn't used his web-shooters in "ages", which seems to contradict his having worn some as back-up in recent times. It's more likely the pair featured this episode, and converted into bracelets for MJ, were an older set that may have been a back-up for the ones he now uses as a back-up but were previously his main ones. His surprise with them working so well still is pretty silly, since I'd say the amount of time he's gone without using web-shooters since Disassembled is far shorter than he went when powerless circa "The Final Adventure" or around "The Gathering of the Twelve". 

MJ says Pete made his web-shooters when he was "sixteen", which he agrees with. Wasn't it already settled elsewhere he got bit by the spider when he was 15? 

And why is MJ so excited about using his old web-shooters? She's used them before without incident, the whole scene comes across as "Peter has just revealed to MJ he's Spider-Man", rather than "Pete shows his wife of a bajillion years some of his technology he's always used but doesn't anymore". 

Why does Cap need info from SHIELD on how to beat Dragon Man? Same goes for Spidey, they've both fought him before. 

Should Luke Cage be able to create a burst of sonic energy by slamming his hand against Cap's shield? I'd have figured 

Pete warns that as his wife, people may want to get to MJ to get to him. Why is this any more of an issue now than the past 20 years? His identity is as much a secret as always! 


Calendar notes: The story takes place on the week prior, and the days leading up to, then on itself, Valentine's Day. 


Timeframe: 
Page 1-3: The "week before Valentine's Day". Clear skies at night. Spidey has captured Mandrill, SHIELD is on the way. 
Pages 4-6: Spidey heads home to Stark Tower. Aunt May & Jarvis wash dishes, while MJ watches basketball with Luke Cage, Tony Stark, and Steve Rogers. 
Pages 7: Same night. Peter takes a shower, recalls how weak Gwen was and how much a survivor MJ is. 
Pages 8-10: Same night, in the HQ garden, Pete lets MJ try out his web-shooters. Recalls prank on Johnny Storm. 
Pages 11-15: "Four days until Valentine's Day". Daytime. Spidey, Luke Cage, and Captain America vs Dragon Man. 
Pages 16 panels 1 through 4: "Two days" until V-Day. Pete asks Tony Stark (who is in armor) for a favor. 
Pages 16 panel 5 to page 19: Valentine's Day.. err, Night. In the HQ garden, Pete gives MJ her own stylish web-shooters. 
Pages 20-22: Same night. Full moon (it's even clearly called as such by Peter), partly cloudy skies. Johnny Storm gets the "web-bat" prank pulled on him again, as MJ and Spidey watch from above.

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 May 2006 06:10 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Hey, JLH. Thanks again for analyzing these I (HEART) MARVEL issues. I'm left with several questions and comments... 

What costume does Spidey wear in IHM:WOR 1? 

It sounds like IHM:MAI 1 takes place between A 108 and 109. Natasha doesn't join the Avengers until A 111, but did have a past association with the Avengers through Hawkeye and was even a Lady Liberator with Jan and Wanda in A 83, so it's quite plausible for her to be visiting as a friend. 

Does anyone have a solution for the inclusion of Natasha, Elektra, and Karen in IHM:MAI 1/3? Is there any point in time in which this story can be placed logically? 

I assume that Doop is in IHM:MMH 1/2 before XFOR 116-FB...right? 

Is there any point in time in which IHM:MMH 1/3 can be placed? Sam living in his own apartment and going out with Lila? Where does this story take place?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 May 2006 11:59 am    
By ShadZ

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Does anyone have a solution for the inclusion of Natasha, Elektra, and Karen in IHM:MAI 1/3? Is there any point in time in which this story can be placed logically? 
<<<


It wasn't mentioned in the original review, but the tone of this story is light and satirical. I'm pretty sure it is to be regarded as a not-in-continunity, "Not Brand Echh"-type story
_________________
ShadZ

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 May 2006 01:41 pm    
By JLH

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
What costume does Spidey wear in IHM:WOR 1? 
<<<

His regular old blue & red one.

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 May 2006 09:27 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Hmm. So it's either the classic costume prior to ASM 529, the classic costume after ASM 529 (which we know he wore in at least one story arc post-ASM 529...in SENSM2 23-25), or version 2.0 of the Iron Spidey costume assuming the classic appearance. I suppose that's not much to go by. 
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 May 2006 11:02 pm    
By JLH

Well, he takes his mask off like he always did, as if it were cloth, whether that makes a difference... and he goes temporarily deaf along with Cap when Cage does the shield thing, you'd think a super-suit of some kind would have sound dampeners or something.

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 May 2006 08:24 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I think both observations are inconclusive. True, Peter could will version 2.0 of the Iron Spidey costume to appear and disappear while he had it on, but this doesn't preclude him from physically removing its mask. And sound protection wasn't specifically mentioned as a feature of the Iron Spidey costume in either the version 1.0 (ASM 529) or 2.0 (ASM 530) rundown of features. 

BTW, if: 
(1) The Valentine's Day of IHM:WOR 1 does indeed occur before Peter gets his Iron Spidey costume; and 
(2) Spidey appears in A4 16 in the Iron Spidey costume; and 
(3) The Christmas of M/HOL'05 1/2 occurs after Jessica Jones' baby is born in PULSE 13; and 
(4) Jessica's rant against Jameson in PULSE 13 follows the newspaperman's editorial slam of the New Avengers in A4 15; and 
(5) we can trust both the Christmas and Valentine's Day temporal references (okay, big "if" for some of you)... 
then there must be a gap of at least a couple of months either between A4 15 and 16 or between panels of A4 16 (following the theory that the red alert after Hill's conversation with Stark in that issue was different from the red alert concerning the Collective). 

Just tryin' to keep score... 
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Apr 2007 06:03 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Took me long enough to ask this question. In I (Heart) Marvel: Web of Romance, what costume is Spidey wearing?
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 03 Apr 2007 09:31 pm    
By JLH

I'd have thought it was obvious from my cloth comment. It's his red/blue standard one. Whether or not it's the horribly weak "Iron Spidey in a different mode" is indetermined.

			*	*	*

Posted: 04 Apr 2007 05:41 am
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks, JLH. I'm going to attribute this to the Iron Spidey costume in standard mode for a purely calendar reason that involves re-interpreting Valentine's Day as Sweetest Day. Sigh.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 29

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 02:24 pm    Post subject: April call for analyses
By Paul Bourcier
Director

No foolin'...it's time for another monthly call for analyses. I took the liberty of extending the "tours of duty" for folks who signed up for previous arcs of a title, so let me know if this is not okay. 

Any volunteers for unassigned issues and arcs would be greatly appreciated. JLH, I know you signed up for NOVA, but from the look of things, I plan to collect at least the first several issues, so I dropped that from the list of "Future Stuff." 

I'm getting ready to post a chronological review of the Civil War era, so it would be great to get analyses for completed stories during the next week so I can add them as applicable. Blade, DD, and Moon Knight would be particularly helpful. Thanks, guys!  

As always, please let me know if I've messed up any assignments. 


Completed stories (as of 3/28/07) 
Agents of Atlas #1-6 (Eric) 
Books of Doom #1-6 (Eric) 
Daughters of the Dragon #1-6 
Eternals v3 #1-7 (Eric) 
Franklin Richards: Son of a Genius Super Summer Spectacular 
Legion of Monsters: Werewolf By Night #1 (JLH) 
Moon Knight v5 #1-6 (Joe) 
Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #1-12 (Chris) 
Nick Furys Howling Commandos #1-6 (Russ) 
Reading to the Rescue #4 
Sentinel v2 #1-5 (JD) 
Spider-Man Family #1 
Thor: Son of Asgard #7-12 (John) 
Underworld #1-5 (Aaron) 

Future stuff 
Annihilation: Conquest Prologue (JLH) 
Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #1-2 (JLH) 
Annihilation Saga (JLH) 
Blade v3 #8 (JLH) 
Blade v3 #9 (JLH) 
Blade v3 #10 (JLH) 
Daredevil v2 #95-99 (Kevin) 
Daredevil: Battlin Jack Murdock #1-4 
Franklin Richards: World Be Warned #1 
Ghost Rider v5 #8-11 (JLH) 
Ghost Rider v5 #12-13 (JLH) 
Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears #1-6 (JLH) 
Immortal Iron Fist #1-6 (Don) 
Immortal Iron Fist #7 (Don) 
Incredible Hulk v3 #104-105 (Kevin) 
Irredeemable Ant-Man #7 (Somebody) 
Irredeemable Ant-Man #8 (Somebody) 
Irredeemable Ant-Man #9 (Somebody) 
Legion of Monsters: Man-Thing #1 (JLH) 
Legion of Monsters: Morbius (JLH) 
Legion of Monsters: Satana (JLH) 
Marvel Westerns: Strange Westerns Featuring the Black Rider (Eric) 
Moon Knight v5 #9-10 
Punisher v7 #43-49 (Col_Fury) 
Punisher Presents: Barracuda #1-5 (Col_Fury) 
Runaways v2 #25-30 (JD) 
Silver Surfer: Requiem #1-4 [canonical?] 
Spider-Man Family #2 
Spider-Man Family #3 
Thunderbolts Presents: Zemo  Born Better #2-4 (Sean K.) 
White Tiger #1-6 (Kevin) 
Wisdom #1-6 (Paul O.) 
Wolverine v3 #50-55 (Col_Fury) 
Wolverine: Origins #12-15 (Col_Fury) 
X-23: Target X #1-6 (Paul O.)
_________________
Paul B.

Last edited by Paul Bourcier on 15 Apr 2007 12:52 pm; edited 3 times in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 05:49 pm    
By Kevin W.
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Daredevil v2 #89-93 (Kevin) 
Daredevil v2 #94 (Kevin)  
<<<

My analysis for these are halfway finished, so look for them here soon, (I'll try and get them posted in the next few days). 


Quote: 
>>>
Incredible Hulk v3 #104-105 (Kevin)  
<<<

Issue #105 comes out next week, so I can have a review for those two issues here shortly, (which'll get us all set for World War Hulk). 

I was just about to ask when you were planning on giving us the next update on the Calender! 
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 07:00 pm    
By Somebody

This reminds me I need to get back to you on that Ant-Man timeline thing...

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 10:20 pm    
By JLH

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
JLH, I know you signed up for NOVA, but from the look of things, I plan to collect at least the first several issues, so I dropped that from the list of "Future Stuff." 
<<<

Understandable. 


Quote: 
>>>
Blade, DD, and Moon Knight would be particularly helpful. Thanks, guys!   
<<<

I've done all of Blade that can be applied to Civil War, the last I analized, #6, had no connections to it. 


Quote: 
>>>
Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #1-2 (JLH) 
<<<

The second one comes out this week, actually. 


Quote: 
>>>
Legion of Monsters: Man-Thing #1 (JLH) 
<<<

This is running late. 


Quote: 
>>>
Annihilation: Conquest Prologue 
<<<

Sign me up for it. I'm also digging into the back issues for Star-Lord's stuff to determine what will be applied to his history now that he's a regular 616 character.

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 Apr 2007 10:51 pm    
By Col_Fury

Wolverine: Origins #11 is already up, and the rest will be done in a group. I'm pretty sure we decided the pre- and post-Civil War break is in that issue, so I analyzed it. 
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: 02 Apr 2007 05:46 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
My analysis for these are halfway finished, so look for them here soon... 
Issue #105 comes out next week, so I can have a review for those two issues here shortly 
<<<

Cool. Thanks, Kevin. 


JLH wrote:
>>>
I've done all of Blade that can be applied to Civil War, the last I analized, #6, had no connections to it. 
<<<

Any indication how long after #6 issue #7 takes place? My review will include the CW/Initiative transition period. 

Thanks for volunteering for Annihilation: Conquest Prologue, and I'll move the late issues on the list. Thanks. 


Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Wolverine: Origins is already up 
<<<

Oops. I didn't edit that entry to reflect the one analysis. Thanks, Col
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 05 Apr 2007 12:33 am    
By JLH

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Any indication how long after #6 issue #7 takes place? My review will include the CW/Initiative transition period. 
<<<

Not especially. It's not the same day, but it isn't months later. Blade goes to London to check into his past to see what he can find on his alleged "father". The only CW related reference is Blade used his SHIELD resources to find a place to gain weapons in London. 

I'll do the analysis in the next few days, once I finish with the Gap (which is now down to Blackwulf, Nightwatch and Druid).

			*	*	*

Thread 30

Posted: 06 Apr 2007 07:21 pm    Post subject: Various Death's Head and related comics
By Dhall

Deaths Head 

Note that Deaths Head travels through time and space taking jobs. He began his career on the planet Scarvix, then moved to Earth-120185, which is the Earth of the UK Transformers comic. From there he met the Doctor in a Doctor Who comic, appears in a UK comic called Dragons Claws, got his own book, appeared in a UK anthology called Strip (reprinted in the Body in Question GN), guest starred in FF, She-Hulk, starred in an MCP story, and appeared in another Doctor Who comic. As Earth Transformers UK was given a #, by the Handbook, we can assume these are Marvel alternate Earth canon. Im only going to look at the issues with Deaths Head in them though. For the Strip issues, as I only have the reprint GN, I will only analyze the Deaths Head comic. For Dragons Claws I will look at all of the issues. Note also that Deaths Head began his career in a one page strip called High Noon Tex which ran on the back of the Marvel UK comics in Sept. 1987. Since this was reprinted in Incomplete Deaths Head 1, we can be sure it is canon. I will list this story as HNT, as I am not sure what books this actually appeared on the back cover of. If anyone can give any guidance here, it would be helpful. Note also that various characters from the Doctor Who Magazine strip show up in Deaths Head 8 (& later in Incomplete Deaths Head,) so I will write up the stories of that magazine in which they do. 

List of codes: 
DC - Dragons Claws 
STRIP - STRIP 
DWM - Doctor Who Magazine 
DH - Deaths Head 
DHII - Deaths Head II 
HNT -High Noon Tex (Anyone know what comics this was originally published in?) 
IDH - Incomplete Deaths Head 
TRUK - Transformers UK 

Please note in this write up I am covering: 
High Noon Tex, Transformers UK (Deaths Head apps. only,) various Doctor Who Magazines, Dragons Claws, and Deaths Head. Some of the codes I use refer to Incomplete Deaths Head, and Deaths Head II. I will post analysis of these two series later on, but it makes the most sense to put these apps. in the relevant chronology, with the understanding that these issues have not been indexed yet. 

High Noon Tex 
Characters Appearing: 
Tex 
Deaths Head 

Tex is looking for revenge, as Deaths Head fulfilled a contract to kill his brother. Tex bursts into Deaths Heads office, but only finds a dummy that DH prepared to fool him. DH blows up his office. 
This strip was done so that Marvel would retain ownership rights to DH. If he has appeared first in the Transformers comic, the license holder would have owned all rights. 

Transformers UK 113 
Characters Appearing: 
Deaths Head 
Cyclonus 
Scourge 

On the robot world of Elpasos, Earth Date 2007, DH sees a wanted poster. Rodius Prime has put out a bounty on Galvatron. DH goes to fufill the contract, first getting a lot of exposition from a robot bartender. He goes to Cybertron and meets Galvatrons henchmen, Scourge, and Cyclonus. Not wanting to die for Galvatron, Cyclonus gives up the goods, telling DH that he believes Galvatron is hiding twenty years in the past, in the year 1987. DH follows this trail, back through time, using the Cybertronian time-equipment. 

Note: There are some FBs in this issue, which only pertain to Transformers characters. Without reading a lot more Transformers, I cannot determine if they are new material or not, so I wont list them. 

Transformers UK 114 
Characters Appearing: 
Blurr 
Wreck-Gar 
Kup 
Rodimus Prime 
Nautilus (also in fb preceding this issue) 
Cyclonus (in fb between 113 and 114) 
Scourge (in fb between 113 and 114) 
Bumblebee (also in fb preceding this issue) 
First aid (in fb only) 
Deaths Head 

After a successful ambush of the Decepticons, Rodimus Prime has Doubts about their mission. Nautilus returns from being undercover, and gives him the info about Galvatron, and Deaths Head. Meanwhile Deaths Head appears in 1987, and takes out Bumblebee, to keep his presence unknown. 

Transformers UK 117 
Characters Appearing: 
Deaths Head 
Soundwave 
Rodimus Prime 
Kup 
Blurr 
Galvatron 
Ultra Magnus 
Cindy 

Deaths Head questions Shockwave to learn Galvatrons location. Rodimus Prime makes his move, and attacks Galvatron. Deaths Head shows up, and threatens Rodimus Prime, as DH is intent to claim that bounty! 

Transformers UK 118 
Characters Appearing: 
Bumblebee (becomes Goldbug in this issue) 
Wreck-Gar 
Galvatron 
Rodimus Prime 
Deaths Head 
Kup 
Blurr 
Cindy 
Ultra Magnus 

Deaths Head squabbles with Rodimus over the bounty, then Galvatron wounds him, requiring DH to retreat and repair. 


Transformers UK 120 
Characters Appearing: 
Galvatron 
Rodimus Prime 
Wreck-Gar 
Deaths Head 
Goldbug 

Galvatron fight Prime, and is winning, when Deaths Head comes back. Prime activates the time travel device taking everyone except Galvatron and Goldbug back to 2007. 

Transformers UK 133 

Characters Appearing: 
Blot 
Deaths Head 
Rodimus Prime 
Scourge 
Cyclonus 
Shockwave 

Back on Scarvix, Blot makes DH an offer to kill Rodimus Prime. DH fights Prime, and is ready to blast him. 

Transformers UK 134 
Characters Appearing: 

Scourge (also in fb between 133 and 134) 
Cyclonus 
Deaths Head (also in fb between 133 and 134) 
Rodimus Prime (also in fb between 133 and 134) 

FB:Scourge saves Rodimus by shooting DH. DH recovers and chases Prime, who returns to the Autobase. Outgunned, DH accepts Primes offer to go after Cyclonus and Scourge. 

Transformers UK 146 

Characters Appearing: 
Cyclonus 
Scourge 
Deaths Head 
Wreck-Gar 
Rodimus Prime 
Inferno 
Smokescreen 
Unicron 


Attempting to fufill his contract, DH hunts down Scourge and Cyclonus, knocking them out, he is drawin into the Junkions plight. They have been enslaved by Unicron. 

Transformers UK 147 

Characters Appearing: 
Shockwave 
Deaths Head 
Cyclonus 
Scourge 
Soundwave 
Wreck-Gar 
Inferno 
Smokescreen 
Unicron 
Breakdown 
Dead End 

With Unicron controlling them, DH, Cyclonus, and Scourge kill Shockwave. 

Transformers UK 148 
Characters Appearing: 
Rodimus Prime 
Kup 
Cyclonus 
Scourge 
Unicron 
Wreck-Gar 
Inferno 
Smokescreen 
Deaths Head 

Deaths Head rebels against Unicrons control, but cannot break free. 

Transformers UK 149 
Characters Appearing: 
Smokescreen 
Inferno 
Cyclonus 
Scourge 
Unicron 
Deaths Head 
Rodimus Prime 
Grimlock 

Deaths Head continues his rebellion against Unicron by moving it to the psychic plane. 

Transformers UK 150 
Characters Appearing: 
Wreck-Gar 
Unicron (also in origin fb) 
Deaths Head 
Rodimus Prime 
Smokescreen 
Primus (fb only) 

Inside Unicrons mind, DH listens to Unicrons origin story. 

Transformers 151 
Characters Appearing: 
Unicron 
Rodimus Prime 
Smokescreen 
Scattershot 
Wreck-Gar 
Cyclonus 
Scourge 
Soundwave 
Hun-Grrr 
Kup 
Ultra Magnus 
Deaths Head 
Scorponok 

Deaths Head and Rodimus Prime team up against Unicron. DH ends up in a time portal. (and appears next in Doctor Who Magazine #135) 


Doctor Who Magazine 84 
Characters Appearing: 
The Moderator 
The Doctor 
Angus Goodman 
Josiah W. Dogbolter-BTS 

A hitman called the Moderator, tracks down the Doctor for Dogbolter. 

Doctor Who Magazine 86 
Characters Appearing: 
Josiah W. Dogbolter 
Hob 
The Doctor 
Angus Goodman 
The Moderator 

While The Moderator tracks down the Doctor, he manages to get himself and Angus Goodman captured by Hob. 

Doctor Who Magazine 87 
Characters Appearing: 
Josiah W. Dogbolter 
Hob 
The Doctor 
Angus Goodman 
The Moderator (appears next in DWM 84 & 86, then again in this issue) 

The Doctor and Gus manage to escape. Dogbolter puts out a price on the Doctor, and calls the Moderator to collect. (The scenes with the moderator in 84 and 86 occur between pages of this issue) 
The moderator tracks them down, and kills Gus. The Doctor returns fire, wounding the Moderator. On the last page, the moderator is in the hospital. Hob visits, and then since Dogbolter doesnt tolerate failure, Hob pulls the plug on the Moderators life support. 

Doctor Who Magazine 88 
Characters Appearing: 
Frobisher 
The Doctor 
Josiah W. Dogbolter-BTS 

The Doctor investigates, and finds out who hired the Moderator. 
Finding that there is a hefty reward on the Doctor, Frobisher, a shape changing Whifferdill, locates the Doctor and infiltrates the Tardis. This leads into #89 

Doctor Who Magazine 89 
Characters Appearing: 
The Doctor 
Frobisher 
Josiah W. Dogbolter (Next in Deaths Head 8) 
Hob (Next in Deaths Head 8) 

Frobisher gets the Doctor to take him to Venus, where he wishes to claim the reward that Dogbolter has put up for the Doctor. Unknown to Dogbolter, the two have teamed up, and manage to double cross him, keeping the reward. 


Doctor Who Magazine 135 
Characters Appearing: 
Deaths Head 
The Doctor 
Time Warden 

The Tardis collides with Deaths Head. The two land on a planet,a nd fight. The Doctor pulls out a tissue compression eliminator, and uses it to shrink Deaths Head down to his normal (human) size. The Doctor then makes a deal with Deaths Head, but tricks him, sending him to Earth , in the year 8162. 


Dragons Claws 1 
Note: This series takes place on Earth in the year 8162 
Characters Appearing: 
Mr. Stenson 
Deller 
Tanya 
Michael 
Saul 

Dragon (also in fb) 
Mercy (in fb & bts) 
Steel(in fb & bts) 
Digit(in fb & bts) 
Scavenger(in fb & bts) 

Slaughterhouse 
Feral 
Death Nell 
Hex -BTS 
Kronos-BTS 

Tiger 
Puma 
Panther 
Lion 
Leopard 

The Govt wishes to reactivate the Dragons Claws to fight the Evil Dead. A group called the Wildcats attack Dragon, who kills them. 

Dragons Claws 2 
Characters Appearing: 
Evil Dead: 
Slaughterhouse 
Death Nell 
Feral 
Hex 
Kronos 

Mr. Stenson 
Deller 

Dragons Claws: 
Dragon 
Mercy 
Scavenger 
Steel 
Digit 

Dragons Claws fight Evil Dead. 

Dragons Claws 3 
Characters Appearing: 
Dragon 
Scavenger 
Mercy 
Steel 
Digit 
Deller 
Mr. Stenson 
Mr. Kurran 
Scratch (the dog) 
Tanya Dragon 
Michael Drgaon 
Saul 
High Father/Starick 
Katie 

The Claws go up against the High Father. 

Dragons Claws 4 
Characters Appearing: 
Dragon 
Scavenger 
Mercy 
Steel 
Digit 

Legris 
Ostleur 
Lebois 
Col. Gescaux 
Baron Rocheau 
Baron Cardon 
Raymond Golding 

Deaths Head 
Death Nell 
The Claws fight some Frenchmen. Deaths Head appears in Northern England. 

Dragons Claws 5 
Characters Appearing: 
Deaths Head 
Slaughterhouse 
Death Nell 
Cousin Rob 
Cousin Bob 
Mr. Stenson 
Dragon 
Scavenger 
Mercy 
Steel 
Digit 
Deller 
Matron 
The Evil Dead hire Deaths Head, for a job, the Claws get involved, mayhem occurs, DH gets a building dropped on him. 

Dragons Claws 6 
Characters Appearing: 
Mr. Kurran 
Mister Stenson 
Deller 

Dragon 
Scavenger 
Mercy 
Steel 
Digit 
Tanya 
Michael 
Saul Tesing 
Scratch (the dog) 
Mister Hone 

Fury 
Vigilance 
Strength 
Temperance 
Industry 
Clarity 

Milos Judden 
Scourge 
Tanyas father 

Dragons Claws 7 
Characters Appearing: 
Mercy Connaught 
Dragon 
Digit 
Steel 
Scavenger 
Scratch 

Milos Judden 
Scourge 
Mister Stenson 
Matron 
Raymond Golding 
Deller 

Slaughterhouse 
Death Nell 
Hack 
Rend 
Slash 


Note: Deaths Head 2, comes between issues 7 and 8 of Dragons Claws. 

Dragons Claws 8 
Characters Appearing: 

Slaughterhouse 
Death Nell 
Hack 
Rend 
Slash 

Scavenger 
Mercy 
Digit 
Steel/ Shonin Ikeda 
Dragon 
Matron 
Mister Chandler 
Raymond Golding 
Deller 
Mister Stenson 

Scratch- BTS 

The team confront both the Evil Dead, and their superiors. 

Dragons Claws 9 
Characters Appearing: 
Slaughterhouse 
Dragon 
Matron 
Golding 
Deller 
Stenson (deceased) 
Death Nell 
Hack 
Rend 
Slash 
Scavenger 
Mercy 
Digit/Gan Ayerson 
Steel/ Shonin Ikeda 
Scratch 

The Claws team up with the Evil Dead, to take on Matron. 

Dragons Claws 10 
Characters Appearing: 
Deller 
Dragon 
Golding 
Steel 
Digit 
Mercy 
Scavenger 

Kurran 
Clarity 
Strength 
Temperance 
Industry 
Vigilance 
Tanya 
Her father 
Michael 
Scratch 

Deaths Head 1 
Note: This series, like Dragons Claws, is set in AD 8162. 
Characters Appearing: 
Deaths Head (also in fb) 
Babyface/ Dutch Malone  in FB only 
Backbreaker  in fb only 
Spratt 
Sabre 

FB: DH takes on a job on the planet Studuj 
Fb: A mission on Furik, DH kills Babyface 
FB: After setting up shop on Scarvik, DH takes on the local tough, pretending he has a contract, this gets him a lot of business. 

DH remembers missions from his past. Spratt has spent weeks repairing DH, after the events of Dragons Claws 5. 

Deaths Head 2 
Characters Appearing: 
Deaths Head 
Scavenger (also in origin fb) 
Scratch 
Mercy 
Digit 
Dragon (also in fb) 
Steel 
Fox (also in fb) 
Spratt 

Dh fights the Dragons Claws on behalf on Fox, but when the time on his contract runs out, he steps aside. 

Deaths Head 3 
Characters Appearing: 
Deaths Head (also in fb, between 2 and 3) 
Collins 
Spratt (also in fb, between 2 and 3) 
Blue (in fb only) 
Red (in fb only) 
Ogrus 

Undertaker 
Plaguedog 

DH teams up with Spratt for their first job together, going after a criminal named Ogrus. 

Deaths Head 4 
Characters Appearing: 
Deaths Head 
Spratt 
Undertaker 
Plaguedog 
Jules Kneecap Venici 
Dead Cert 
Big Shot 

Now living in L.A., DH and Spratt take on the Undertaker, a local crime lord. 

Doctor Who Magazine 140 
Characters Appearing: 
The Doctor 
Keepsake 
Bahlia 
Vulture 

The Doctor convinces Keepsake, a scavenger to help him rescue Bahlia from a planet of primatives. 


Deaths Head 5 
Characters Appearing: 
Keepsake 
Bahlia 
Deaths Head 
Thea, Keepsakes wife 
Colt 
Mayhem 
vulture 
Dh takes on a job for Thea, to track down her husband Keepsake. After a few double crosses, DH ends up with all of the gold. 

Deaths Head 6 
Characters Appearing: 

Mayhem 
Gowse 
Deaths Head 
Marshal Lek 
Mister Carson 
Spratt 
Senator Letterman 
Dead Cert 
Short Fuse 
vulture 

DH takes a protect job, but fails. 

Deaths Head 7 
Characters Appearing: 

Deaths Head 
Short Fuse 
Big Shot 
Undertaker 
Photofit 
Spratt 
Amos Snucker 
Pyra 

DH gets attacked by bounty-hunters from both sides of an underworld dispute. 

Marvel Comics Presents 76/3 
Characters Appearing: 
Deaths Head 
Thaddeus Soul 

Note: This story occurs in 8162, which means it has to occur before issue 8. 
DH takes a job on the planet Yel-Jak, where he is hired to kill Thaddeus Soul. Soul is a bounty-hunter and ends up hunting Dh, until DH turns the tables on him. 



Deaths Head 8 
Characters Appearing: 
Josiah W. Dogbolter 
Hob 
Deaths Head 
Mistress Thorogood 
The Doctor 

DH takes a contract from Dogbolter, to kill the Doctor. He is given a rocket pack/time travel device, that he uses to travel through time, and track down the Doctor. Once he does, the device turns out to be a nuclear bomb, and starts to explode. The Doctor manages to follow the signal back along the timestream, and they dump the device at its point of origin, then leave in the TARDIS. The Doctor drops Deaths Head off at Four Freedoms Plaza. 

Deaths Head 9 
August 1989 

Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
The Thing 
Mister Fantastic 
Invisible Woman 
Franklin Richards 
Deaths Head 
Spratt 
vulture 
Pyra 
Iron Man 2020 
Athey 

Note: Sue mentions to Ben, I thought youd have learnt some responsibility as the Fantastic Fours leader. 
Four Freedoms Plaza, 1989 


2020: Iron Man 2020 says he vowed to never wear the armor again. The Machine Man incident is mentioned. 

DH takes on the FF. A device Reed was building as a defensive system goes rogue, and tries to kill all of them. Reed send DH to help Franklin, in exchange for use of his time machine. After DH saves Franklin, he uses the machine. However he makes the mistake of telling Reed that he kills people, and Reed tries to stop the machine. Instead of stopping the time travel, it send Dh to 2020, where a mystery baddie is hiring Iron Man 2020. 

Deaths Head 10 
Characters Appearing: 

Iron Man 2020 (Arno Stark) 
Athey 
Chance 
Deaths Head 
Spratt 
Big Shot 

Dh vs. Iron Man 2020. They both team up, when they realized that they are being used by someone. They find only a dead man, and the balance of their fees. 

Note: These last pages happen between Strip 15 and 16. Spratt returns in Deaths Heads ship along with Big Shot. 

Strip #13 
Characters Appearing: 
Lupex 
Elo Rogan 
Deaths Head 
DH pursues a criminal named Rogan 

Strip #14 
Deaths Head 
Elo Rogan 
Acid Alice 

DH kills Rogan. 

Strip #15 
Spratt 
vulture 
Pyra 
Big Shot 

Pyra meets Spratt, they are surprised by Big Shot. Pyra realizes that DH has travelled through time. Spratt escapes in DHs ship, along with their pet vulture, but Big Shot jumps onboard too. 

Strip #16 
Lupex 
Deaths Head (in DH 10 in between pages of this issue) 
Big Shot (appears in Dh 10 in between pages of this issue) 
Spratt (bts in this issue, then in DH 10, then in this issue) 
vulture 

Strip #17 
vulture 
Spratt 
Deaths Head (also in fb) 
Pyra (also in fb) 
Big Shot 
Lupex 

Fb: Deaths Head is hooked up to a wall, Pyra imbues him with a personality. (This occurs before his first app.) 
Dh fights Big Shot, Pyra appears, pretending that she believes that Dh is Lupex. Lupex teleports Dh to him. 

Strip #18 
Deaths Head 
Lupex 

DH is on the run from Lupex, who is hunting him. The zone changes from techno, to majik, weakening DH. DH hides under a pile of rocks. 

Strip # 19 
Lupex 
Deaths Head 

Lupex wants to take over Dhs body.Dh pulls out of the rockpile, and begins to hunt Lupex. 

Strip 19 FB: 
Lupex 
Deaths Head 

Lupex exposits, then sends DH out to the surface, so the hunt can begin. 

Strip #19-FB-FB 
Lupex 
Deaths Head 
Pyra 
Lupexs and Death Heads origins (before FB in Strip 17) 
Lupex takes a new body, but since they burn out, he creates Dh as a new metal body which will last. Pyra comes to Lupex, pretending to love him. 

(part of the fb in 20 occurs here) 
Since she didnt really love him, he taught her the price of betrayal. 


Note: Fb comes between issue 18, and 19. 

Strip #20 
Deaths Head 
Lupex 
Pyra 

Big Shot 
Spratt 
vulture 

DH tricks Lupex into chasing him. DH has used his scanner to find a techno zone, where he is able to kill Lupex. Pyra teleports Dh back to Earth, AD 2020. 

Strip #20-FB 
Pyra 
Klu 
Deaths Head (after fb in #17) 

While Lupex is out, Pyra tries to uncover the secrets of his power. Since he repulses her, she takes on a lover, Klu. For revenge, Lupex kills Klu, and posses his body. Pyra goes to DH and gives him a personality. 

(the fb in 17 comes right after this) 

Deaths Head appears in FF 338, and S-H2 24 after strip 20. 

Doctor Who Magazine 173 
Characters Appearing 
The Doctor 
Ace/Dorothy 
Bonjaxx 
Deaths Head 
Ria 

The Doctor materializes his Tardis at Bonjaxxs birthday party in Maruthea. Mayhem ensues. 

Note: That various Marvel Characters appear in cameos, but we have no way of knowing if these are the 616 versions, and it does seem unlikely that these would show up on Maruthea. 


**DEATHS HEAD (FREELANCE PEACEKEEPING AGENT) 
STRIP 19-FB-FB 
STRIP 20-FB 
STRIP 17-FB 
DH 1-FB 
DH 1-FB 
DH 1-FB 
HNT 
TRUK 113 
TRUK 114 
TRUK 117 
TRUK 118 
TRUK 120 
TRUK 133 
TRUK 134-FB 
TRUK 134 
TRUK 146 
TRUK 147 
TRUK 148 
TRUK 149 
TRUK 150 
TRUK 151 
DWM 135 
DC 4 
DC 5 
DH 1 
DH 2 
DH 3-FB 
DH 3 
DH 4 
DH 5 
DH 6 
DH 7 
MCP 76/3 
DH 8 
DH 9 
DH 10 
STRIP 13 
STRIP 14 
STRIP 16 
DH 10 
STRIP 16 
STRIP 17 
STRIP 19-FB 
STRIP 18 
STRIP 19 
STRIP 20 
FF 338 
S-H2 24 
IDH 11 
DWM 173 
IDH 12 
DHII 1 

**ACE/Dorothy 
DWM 173 

**BONJAXX 
DWM 173 


**DOCTOR (TIMELORD) 
DWM 84 
DWM 86 
DWM 87 
DWM 88 
DWM 89 
DWM 135 
DWM 140 
DH 8 
DWM 173 
IDH 12 

**BACKBREAKER 
DH1 -FB 

**BABYFACE 
DH 1-FB 


**DOGBOLTER, JOSIAH W. 
DWM 84-BTS 
DWM 86 
DWM 87 
DWM 88-BTS 
DWM 89 
DH 8 

**FROBISHER 
DWM 88 
DWM 89 

**GOODMAN, ANGUS/ GUS 
DWM 84 
DWM 86 
DWM 87 


**HOB 
DWM 86 
DWM 87 
DWM 89 
DH 8 
IDH 1-BTS 
IDH 2-BTS 
IDH 3 
IDH 4 
IDH 5 
IDH 6 
IDH 7 
IDH 8 
IDH 9 
IDH 10 
IDH 11 
IDH 12 

**KLU 
STRIP 20-FB 

**LUPEX 
STRIP 19-FB-FB 
STRIP 20-FB 
STRIP 19-FB-FB 
STRIP 20-FB 
STRIP 17-FB 
STRIP 13 
STRIP 16 
STRIP 17 
STRIP 19-FB 
STRIP 18 
STRIP 19 
STRIP 20 

**MODERATOR 
DWM 87 
DWM 84 
DWM 86 
DWM 87 

**PYRA 
STRIP 19-FB-FB 
STRIP 20-FB 
STRIP 19-FB-FB 
STRIP 20-FB 
STRIP 17-FB 
DH 7 
DH 9 
STRIP 15 
STRIP 17 
STRIP 20 

**RIA 
DWM 173 

**TEX 
HNT 


AD 2020 

**ACID ALICE 
STRIP 14 
**ATHEY 
DH 9 
DH 10 

**CHANCE 
DH 10 

**IRON MAN 2020/ARNO STARK (I COULD NOT FIND A LISTING FOR HIM) 
DH 9 
DH 10 

**ROGAN, ELO 
STRIP 13 
STRIP 14 


AD 8162 

**B AHLIA 
DMW 140 
DH 5 

**BIG SHOT 
DH 4 
DH 7 
STRIP 15 
STRIP 16 
DH 10 
STRIP 16 
STRIP 17 
STRIP 20 

**CLARITY 
DC 6 
DC 10 

**COLT 
DH 5 

**DEAD CERT 
DH 4 
DH 6 

**DEATH NELL 
DC 1 
DC 2 
DC 4 
DC 5 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 

**DELLER 
DC 1 
DC 2 
DC 3 
DC 5 
DC 6 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 
DC 10 

**DIGIT/GAN AYERSON 
DC 1-FB 
DC 1-BTS 
DC 2 
DC 3 
DC 4 
DC 5 
DC 6 
DH 2 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 
DC 10 

**DRAGON 
DH 2-FB 
DC 1-FB 
DC 1 
DC 2 
DC 3 
DC 4 
DC 5 
DC 6 
DH 2 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 
DC 10 

**DRAGON, TANYA/Tanya Ritinski 
DC 1 
DC 3 
DC 6 
DC 10 

**DRAGON, MICHAEL 
DC 1 
DC 3 
DC 6 
DC 10 

**FERAL 
DC 1 
DC 2 

**FOX 
DH 2-FB 
DH 2 

**FURY 
DC 6 

**GOLDING, RAYMOND 
DC 4 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC9 
DC 10 

**HACK 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 

**HEX 
DC 1-BTS 
DC 2 

**HIGH FATHER/STARICK 
DC 3 

**INDUSTRY 
DC 6 
DC 10 

**JUDDEN, MILOS 
DC 6 
DC 7 

**KEEPSAKE 
DMW 140 
DH 5 

**KRONOS 
DC 1-BTS 
DC 2 

**KURRAN 
DC 3 
DC 6 
DC 10 

**MATRON 
DC 5 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 

**MAYHEM 
DH 5 
DH 6 

**MERCY/MERCY CONNAUGHT 
DC 1-FB 
DC 1-BTS 
DC 2 
DC 3 
DC 4 
DC 5 
DC 6 
DH 2 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 
DC 10 

**OGRUS 
DH 3 

**PHOTOFIR 
DH 7 

**PLAGUEDOG 
DH 3 
DH 4 

**REND 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 

**RITINSKI, MR. 
DC 6 
DC 10 

**SABRE 
DH 1 

**SCAVENGER 
DH 2-FB 
DH 2-FB 
DC 1-FB 
DC 1-BTS 
DC 2 
DC 3 
DC 4 
DC 5 
DC 6 
DH 2 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 
DC 10 

**SCRATCH 
DC 3 
DC 6 
DH 2 
DC 7 
DC 8-BTS 
DC 9 
DC 10 

**SCOURGE 
DC 6 
DC 7 

**SHORT FUSE 
DH 6 
DH 7 

**SLASH 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 

**SLAUGHTERHOUSE 
DC 1 
DC 2 
DC 5 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 

**SPRATT 
DH 1 
DH 2 
DH 3-FB 
DH 3 
DH 4 
DH 6 
DH 7 
DH 9 
DH 10 
STRIP 15 
STRIP 16-BTS 
DH 10 
STRIP 16 
STRIP 17 
STRIP 20 
DHII 2 
DHII 3 

**STEEL/SHONIN IKEDA 
DC 1-FB 
DC 1-BTS 
DC 2 
DC 3 
DC 4 
DC 5 
DC 6 
DH 2 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 
DC 10 

**STENSON 
DC 1 
DC 2 
DC 3 
DC 5 
DC 6 
DC 7 
DC 8 
DC 9 

**STRENGTH 
DC 6 
DC 10 

**TEMPERANCE 
DC 6 
DC 10 

**TESING, SAUL 
DC 1 
DC 3 
DC 6 

**THADDEUS SOUL 
MCP 76/3 

**THEA 
DH 5 

**UNDERTAKER 
DH 3 
DH 4 
DH 7 

**VIGILANCE 
DC 6 
DC 10 


Transformers UK 

**BLOT (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 133 

**BLURR(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 114 
TRUK 117 
TRUK 118 

**BREAKDOWN(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 147 


**BUMBLEBEE (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 117 
TRUK 118 
Continues as GOLDBUG 

**CYCLONUS (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 113 
TRUK 114-FB 
TRUK 133 
TRUK 134 
TRUK 146 
TRUK 147 
TRUK 148 
TRUK 149 
TRUK 151 

**DEAD END(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 147 





**FIRST AID(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 114-FB 

**GALVATRON (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 117 
TRUK 118 
TRUK 120 

**GOLDBUG (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
Continued from Bumblebee 
TRUK 118 
TRUK 120 

**GRIMLOCK(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 149 

**HUN-GRRR(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 151 

**INFERNO(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 146 
TRUK 147 
TRUK 148 
TRUK 149 


**KUP (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 114 
TRUK 117 
TRUK 118 
TRUK 148 
TRUK 151 


**NAUTILUS (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 114-FB 
TRUK 114 

**PRIMUS(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 150-FB 


**RODIMUS PRIME (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 114 
TRUK 117 
TRUK 118 
TRUK 120 
TRUK 133 
TRUK 134-FB 
TRUK 134 
TRUK 146 
TRUK 148 
TRUK 149 
TRUK 150 
TRUK 151 

**SCATTERSHOT(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 151 


**SCORPONOK(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 151 


**SCOURGE (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 113 
TRUK 114-FB 
TRUK 133 
TRUK 134-FB 
TRUK 134 
TRUK 146 
TRUK 147 
TRUK 148 
TRUK 149 
TRUK 151 

**SHOCKWAVE(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 133 
TRUK 147 

**SMOKESCREEN(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 146 
TRUK 147 
TRUK 148 
TRUK 149 
TRUK 150 
TRUK 151 


**SOUNDWAVE (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 117 
TRUK 133 
TRUK 147 
TRUK 151 


**ULTRA MAGNUS (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 117 
TRUK 118 
TRUK 151 

**UNICRON(EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 146 
TRUK 147 
TRUK 148 
TRUK 149 
TRUK 150 
TRUK 151 


**WRECK-GAR (EARTH-120185|Transformers UK) 
TRUK 114 
TRUK 118 
TRUK 120 
TRUK 146 
TRUK 147 
TRUK 148 
TRUK 150 
TRUK 151

			*	*	*

Thread 31

Posted: 03 Apr 2007 10:48 pm    Post subject: Chronology review for DD2 #89-93
By Kevin W.
Director

Daredevil Vol. 2 #89-93 
The Devil Takes a Ride 
Written by Ed Brubaker 
Art by Michael Lark and Stefano Gaudiano 

This story reveals what Matt Murdocks up to while Civil War rages on. A vast amount of time seems to pass over the course of this story arc, (particularly in the last issue). 

Daredevil Vol. 2 #89 
The Devil Takes a Ride pt. 1 
Written by Ed Brubaker 
Art by Michael Lark and Stefano Gaudiano 

Appearances: 

Daredevil/Matt Murdock 
Vanessa Fisk 

New Characters: 
Lily Lucca 
Tybold Lucca, (Lilys father, and a European crime lord) 
Jaime Munoz, (son of a rival mobster Senor Munoz) 
Senor Munoz (no first name given, so he probably doesnt deserve a listing in the MCP). 
Matador II, (no real name given in his first appearance, but we have a codename, and thats enough to warrant a listing for this new supervillian). 
Alton Lennox, (seen for the first time here, though he was somewhat BTS in the last arc). 

Synopsis: Pgs. 1-9: Its 3 days from when the last storyline ended in Daredevil #87. 

Matt Murdock is undercover in Europe in the city-state of Monaco, on the trail of Alton Lennox, the mob lawyer who ordered Foggy Nelson killed. Staying at a local casino, he participates in a game of high stakes poker and wins every single round due to his heightened senses. He gets noticed by Lily Lucca, daughter of local mob boss Tybold Lucca, and is invited to her fathers estate tomorrow night for a celebration. 

Pgs. 10-22: The next evening. Matt has come to the party, and discovers that Alton Lennox is indeed here, (hes a mob lawyer for many mafia types it appears, including Tybold Lucca). Tybold is celebrating the engagement of his daughter Lily to Jamie Munoz, son of rival Spanish crime lord Senor Munoz, (its an arranged marriage to form a truce). For the festivities, Tybold has hired a mysterious costumed Matador to slay lions in Tybolds own personal bullfighting ring. 

As the crime lords gather around after the slaying of the lions, the Matador reveals hes an assassin and kills Tybold. Matt changes into Daredevil and fights the bad guy, while Alton Lennox, (the man Matt had come to interrogate) slips away with a distraught Lily. They flee the area in a helicopter. The Matador gets away from Daredevil, and Matt vows to help Lily, (though he thinks its strange how much Lily smells like Karen Page) 

Meanwhile, Vanessa Fisk, (who we later learn is our villain for this story) is shown in a European mob hideout, plotting her next move 

References: 

Pg. 4: As Matt wakes up from the nightmare, he narrates, Three nights in a row on a real bed, not some rancid prison bunk, and still, I cant sleep. So its been 3 nights since he broke out of the prison with the Punisher. 

Daredevil Vol. 2 #90 
The Devil Takes a Ride pt. 2 
Written by Ed Brubaker 
Art by Michael Lark and Stefano Gaudiano 

Appearances: 

Daredevil/Matt Murdock 
Lily Lucca 
Matador II 
Alton Lennox, (deceased) 
Tombstone/Lonnie Thompson Lincoln 

Synopsis: Pgs 1-2: This is several days later after the end of last issue. Matt wakes up from a dream on board a passenger train heading for Paris. He cant get Lily out of his mind, (and wonders why she reminds him of Karen Page). He flashes back to yesterday 

Pgs. 3-14: Flashback: Yesterday, in Lisbon, (Portugal). Matt got a tip from Dakota North, (whom were told hes been in contact with, though its not shown him talking to her) that Lennox and Lily might be in hiding here in Lisbon. Matt breaks into their private mob boss estate, only to find Alton Lennoxs dead body. He then discovers Tombstone on the premises, trying to flee with Lily as his prisoner. Tombstone and Matt do battle, and Tombstone wins, knocking Matt out and leaving. 

Pgs. 15-22: Back to the present, Matt gets off the train in Paris, (on another tip that Tombstone was heading here with Lily). Matt spends the night out as Daredevil, confronting mobsters and shaking them down for information as to where Tombstone is hiding. He eventually finds a gun smuggler whom he learns is set to meet up with Tombstone tomorrow, but he is then surprised when this gun smuggler reveals that Tombstone is working FOR Lily, (not really holding her hostage). 

We change scenes to see Lily, Tombstone, and the Matador all shacked up together in hiding, (and the Matador and Lily are a couple). Theyre planning on springing a trap on Matt tomorrow. 

References: 

Pg. 3: Matt narrates, (about how he arrived in Lisbon), Dakota North tracked them here for me. After Id spent days in Monaco finding nothing but dead ends. 

So its been days since the end of last issue. Also, Im not sure if this qualifies Dakota North for a BTS listing, but decided not to list enough, (it didnt seem worth it, but someone tell me if Im wrong). 

Pg. 6: Matt narrates, The last thing I needed was Daredevil getting his picture taken in Europewhile Danny Rand was still running around New York pretending to be me. 

So yeah, Dannys still back at home participating in Civil War, while Matts doing his thing in Europe. 

Daredevil Vol. 2 #91 
The Devil Takes a Ride pt. 3 
Written by Ed Brubaker 
Art by Michael Lark and Stefano Gaudiano 

Appearances: 

Daredevil/Matt Murdock 
Lily Lucca 
Matador II/Juan 
Tombstone/Lonnie Thompson Lincoln 

Synopsis: This whole issue happens the night after the end of last issue. Daredevil now knows that hes being led into a trap. He watches from a hiding spot as Tombstone meets up with the gun smuggler and buys a gun from him. Tombstone then picks up Lily, (who appears to be tied up, but Matt knows shes faking), and he takes her to meet up with the Matador. Daredevil jumps in and eventually defeats Tombstone and is on the verge of defeating the Matador. The Matador takes Lily hostage, and threatens to kill her, but at the last minute refuses to do so, declaring his love for Lily, (hes fallen for Lily due to her pheromone powers). Matt knocks him out. Lily realizes she was just about to be killed, before the Matador had a break down, and Matt convinces her that the people shes working for are NOT her friends. She explains that she was given a perfume that makes men sympathize with her, (and thats why she smells like Karen Page) and she reveals who it is thats been leading Matt on a wild goose chase all over Europe 

References: There are several flashbacks to Matts early years being blind, some of which may qualify as new flashback material, and other scenes are probably stuff weve seen before now. Ill break this down as follows: 

Pg. 1p2-1p3: FB-This is a flashback showing Matt waking up in the hospital bed, newly blind, (and his heightened hearing is driving him crazy in pain). Its similar to the scene in the Daredevil movie. I think this has been shown before, (can someone confirm)? 

Pg. 1p4: FB-A generic one panel shot of Matt training with Stick, (surely this has been shown before, can someone confirm)? 

Pg. 2: FB- There is a flashback on this entire page to a period in Matts youth. Its supposedly shortly after Matt was blinded, (and he is walking around Hells Kitchen using his cane, his heightened senses taking in everything). Its a rather generic scene, but I suppose it could be new material 

Pg. 3p2-3p4: FB-A flashback to Matt watching his father spar with another boxer in the ring at the gym. Matt is shown to be reading a Braille book, (though he glances up to watch his father). I suppose this could be new material as well 

Pg. 3p5: FB-A flashback showing Matt and Foggy in the morgue, with Matt identifying his fathers dead body. Foggy is holding Matts shoulder, and says, Aw, Matt Can someone confirm whether or not this is a new scene? I think it mightve been shown in the pages of DD: Yellow. 

Pg. 4p1-4p4: FB-A flashback showing Matt at home after visiting the morgue. He falls asleep on the floor of the closet, trying to escape the smell of his father, which lingers in the place. He wakes up the next morning, and we see the newspaper on his kitchen table has the following headline: NASA delays Galileo 7 Mission and next to that, there is the smaller headline: Boxer Murdock slain after knockout punch. 

Pg. 17: When the Matador tries to hold Lily hostage, she shouts out, Juan-let me go! So we learn that the new Matadors real first name is Juan, but we still dont know his last name. 

Daredevil Vol. 2 #92 
The Devil Takes a Ride pt. 4 
Written by Ed Brubaker 
Art by Michael Lark and Stefano Gaudiano 

Appearances: 

Daredevil/Matt Murdock 
Vanessa Fisk 
Ben Urich 
Joe Robbie Robertson 
Dakota North-BTS 
And the Director of the F.B.I., (and now at last, his real name is revealed to be Leland Drummond). 

In flashback, we see: 
Daredevil/Matt Murdock 
Lily Lucca 

Synopsis: Its perhaps a day or two later after the end of last issue, (or it could be several days later, if needed). Our issue starts out with us learning that the Director of the F.B.I. who has been Daredevils adversary for the last couple of years has resigned, (in the fallout from the whole Daredevil escaping from prison situation). Hes being moved out of DC to an Alaskan branch of the F.B.I. Hes packing up boxes, when a couple of movers come over to help him pack-except theyre really hitmen, and they kill him and make it look like a suicide. 

Meanwhile, in Zurich, Switzerland, Daredevil breaks in to a mob boss mansion to confront the villain whos been manipulating him these last few weeks: Vanessa Fisk. When last we saw her, she had just killed her son Richard Fisk, for trying to overthrow the Kingpin and having Wilson Fisk stabbed and put in a coma, (DD2 31). She left the country and fled to Europe on good terms with Matt, but we learn shes had a change of heart. Shes dying of some rare cancer like disease, and thinks its Gods way of punishing her for killing her own son. She blames her husband Wilson and Matt for it coming to this: she says the two of them were locked in a vicious cycle of violence, which hurt everyone around them. Ever since Matt was placed in prison, shes used her remaining mob connections to set the events of the last few issues in motion, starting with the stabbing of Foggy Nelson, (and she knows Foggys still alive in the Witness Protection Program, but she wants Matt to find that out on his own). 

Meanwhile, in NYC, Robbie Robertson and Ben Urich are at the Daily Bugle talking, when Ben gets a phone call from an anonymous source telling him that the F.B.I. Director has been killed. 

Back in Zurich, Vanessa makes her final bid: she tells Matt that she has the power to restore Matt to his former life before he was a fugitive on the run. She says all she asks in return is that Matt takes her former husband as a client and defend him in court and get him out of prison, (that way she knows theyll eventually resume their cycle of violence towards each other, which is what she wants). Matt refuses, and leaves, but Vanessas confident hell come around: shes already had the Director of the F.B.I. killed. 

Matt arrives back at a hotel, turns on the news, to see the American news is reporting the Director has been killed. He places a phone call to Dakota, and asks her to ask Danny Rand for an immediate flight back to the States 

References: Pg. 1: The Director of the F.B.I. says, (to a friend hes talking to on the phone): They were falling all over themselves to pat me on the back two months ago. Now they act like I spit leprosy in their coffee. 

I take that to mean that it was around two months ago when the F.B.I. caught Matt Murdock, (as shown at the end of Daredevil vol. 2 #80) 

Also on pg. 1, the Director says, Cant wait to see who takes the fall for all the trouble with this Registration stuffand theres our Civil War reference for the storyline! 

Pg. 10: After hearing that the Director of the F.B.I. is dead, Ben calls up Dakota North, and speaks to her on the phone. Dakota? Its Ben But we dont see her on panel, but I think this qualifies her for a BTS listing 

Also, please note: Bens appearance here at the Daily Bugle must be before he resigns in the pages of Civil War: Frontline. Ben hints to Robbie that hes working on a major story Yeahit needs more looking into, but I think theres something there. Perhaps this was a hint at the story Ben was working on in the pages of Civil War: Frontline (where we learn Iron Man is the traitor)?!? 

Pg. 16p5-16-6: FB-Theres a brief flashback in these two panels. We see Matt flashback in his head to him and Lily, (after the end of last issue). Matt lets Lily go free, telling her shes on her own. 

Pg. 22: The news reporter on TV says, In another bizarre twist, Murdock has been missing for weeks, since he was taken hostage by the Punisher in his escape from Rykers Island. So its been weeks since DD2 #87. 

Also on pg. 22: The news reporter says, As most news outlets are now reportingLeland Drummond, who recently stepped down as Director of the F.B.I., apparently committed suicide in his home in Arlington, Virginia earlier this afternoon. And according to sources within the Arlington Police department, his suicide not reveals an elaborate setup to frame lawyer Matt Murdock. 

So we learn the Directors real name, (just in time for him to die)! But thisll get him a proper listing in the MCP 

Also, a weather reference: Its snowing outside in the Zurich, Switzerland scene featuring Matt and Vanessa. That would seem to indicate its winter in the northern hemisphere. 

Daredevil Vol. 2 #93 
The Devil Takes a Ride pt. 5 
Written by Ed Brubaker 
Art by Michael Lark and Stefano Gaudiano 

Appearances: 

Daredevil/Matt Murdock 
Foggy Nelson 
Ben Urich 
Dakota North 
Becky Blake 
Milla Donovan 
Kingpin/Wilson Fisk 
Lily Lucca 

In flashback, we see: 
Kingpin/Wilson Fisk 
Vanessa Fisk 

Synopsis: Pgs 1-3: One Week has passed since last issue. Please note: There are several jumps in time throughout this issue, and by the end of it, weeks have passed, if not whole months). 

Matt has arrived back in the U.S.A. Hes pretending to stumble like a blind man down a road in upstate New York, when a passing car stops and asks if he needs help. 

Cut to a short time later: Foggy Nelson is at his job in an accounting office, (hes still in the Witness Protection Program). He tries to talk to an F.B.I. agent on the phone telling them he should be allowed to go home, but the FBI agent hangs up on him. Then, in the break room, he sees on the TV the news that Matt Murdock has been found. 

Pgs. 4-10: Narrative Caption reads, The Next Day. Matt holds a press conference and explains the Punisher held him captive ever since they escaped from prison together. Matt says that when the Punisher learned that the FBI Director had committed suicide, the Punisher decided to let him go. Ben Urich is in the crowd of reporters. Matt, Milla, Becky Blake, and Dakota head back into their private quarters, where an unexpected guest greets them: Foggy Nelson comes bursting in and hugs Matt, (who is shocked to see Foggy still alive). 

Pg. 11p1-11p3: Two Days later. Matt is reading the newspaper. There is an obituary for Vanessa Fisk, who has just died recently. 

Pg. 11p4: This is perhaps weeks later, (Matt narrates that these news couple scenes spread out over weeks): Matt is back in court, with Foggy and Becky defending him. We learn that all charges against Matt are dropped. 

Pg. 11p5: This is perhaps weeks later. Matt is appearing before the New York State Bar, with Foggy and Becky defending him. He gets his attorney license reinstated. 

Pg. 12: Matt narrates that this scene occurs, The Next Night. Foggy, Matt, and Becky are having dinner together at a restaurant, and they decide to reopen the Nelson/Murdock law firm, but they ask Becky to become a third partner in the law firm. 

Pg. 13p1: A scene showing the three lawyers having movers set up their new office. 

Pg. 13p2-13p6: A scene showing Matt and Milla spending quality time together in bed. 

Pg. 14-18: This could be the next day, or days later. Matt meets up with Wilson Fisk at Rykers Island. Matt tells Fisk that hes Fisks new lawyer, and will be seeking to get the charges against Fisk dropped, (Matts decided to honor Vanessa Fisks last request to him). Fisk is initially angry that Matt didnt get him out of here sooner, (to bury his wife) but Matt lectures Fisk and tells him its time they started honoring his late wife. 

Pg. 19: This is probably weeks later. Fisk is now free from prison, and visiting the grave of his wife in Switzerland. He breaks down crying. 

Pg. 20-22: This is perhaps the same day as pg. 19, or could be days later. Matt, (dressed up as Daredevil) is on a roof, talking to Foggy. He laments that he misses Karen. 

Meanwhile, at an airport in England, Lily Lucca is boarding an airplane, heading for New York City 

The End 

References: 

Pg. 1: A weather reference: Its raining outside in upstate New York, in the scene where Matt is rescued by the passing car. 

Pg. 2: Foggy tells the F.B.I. agent, Its been a week since your own man confessed to planting evidence on Murdock. So a week has passed since the end of last issue. 

Pg. 11: Matt narrates hes reading the obituary for Vanessa Fisk two days later. So Vanessa died just a few days prior, and this is two days after the end of the last scene. 

Pg. 18p3: FB-there is a brief one-panel flashback here that shows Vanessa and Wilson Fisk walking hand in hand outside a Japanese castle. This scene supposedly occurred during Fisk and Vanessas time together in Japan. Anybody know if this is new material, and when it occurred? 

Pg. 19: A news reporter broadcasts, Wilson Fisk was released from federal custody yesterday The news reporter also notes, The even more shocking part of the story is just who it was who struck this deal for the Kingpin-Attorney Matt Murdockwho only recently had his own charges dropped. So Matts charges being dropped is recent but its still probably been weeks or months 

Also, the news reporter says, But we have confirmed that Fisk left the country early this morning. So the new status quo is that Fisk is out of jail, and for now, out of the country. 

Thats it for now. I'll post the MCP listing material, (as well as I can figure it out) here shortly. Look for my review of DD2 #94 to come here shortly as well!
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

Last edited by Kevin W. on 04 Apr 2007 07:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: 04 Apr 2007 05:44 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks for the analysis, Kevin. I'll work on incorporating this into the calendar during the next few days and let you know if I have questions.
_________________
Paul B.
By Paul Bourcier
Director

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Posted: 05 Apr 2007 01:36 am    
By JD

Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
So the new status quo is that Fisk is out of jail, and for now, out of the country. 
<<<

Uh oh... 
In RUNAWAYS v2 #25, out this week, Wilson Fisk is in New York, free as a bird, and apparently in charge of the local underworld. 

The Kingpin is becoming the new Nick Fury, it seems...

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Posted: 05 Apr 2007 06:08 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Looks like RUN2 25 will have to occur a while after DD2 93, and after NX 25, in which Fisk is noted as being out of the country.
_________________
Paul B. 
 
Back to top 


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Posted: 05 Apr 2007 07:14 am    
By Kevin W.
Director

Wonderful. Why even bother to change the status quo?!? Let's just revert everything to the 1960's!
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Posted: 06 Apr 2007 10:54 pm    
By Col_Fury

Hey, no worries! Check this out: 

Mundungus wrote: 
>>>
If Wilson Fisk is currently permanently expelled from U.S. soil according to the recent Daredevil arc, how is he operating as the Kingpin in the recent Runaways preview? I'll assume Runaways now takes place post-Civil War, so I'm a little befuddled by this. Especially if the Hood is soon to be taking a rise to power. Did someone not give Whedon the memo?  
<<<

Joe Q. wrote: 
>>>
Joss definitely got the memo, Mundungus...and read it. Runaways is post-Civil War and in continuity. We talked it all over with Brubaker (who is a gentleman, a scholar and Kristin Bells #1 fantasy) and he was cool with it. 

Here's how it works: just because you quit something doesn't mean that you're easily extricated from it. He's in NY wrapping up some loose ends that he had to deal with. It's only temporary. You'll see a reference to current Daredevil continuity in Runaways #26. The Runaways have been on the run during the whole "Fisk in prison" stuff and contacted him through channels set up when their parents were in charge of the LA criminal underground. A lot of this will become clearer as the story goes on, true believer.  

See? Everything is planned out in advance at Marvel! 
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: 07 Apr 2007 09:15 am    
By Kevin W.
Director

Works for me. I'm glad someone's paying attention at Marvel.
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Thread 32

Posted: 09 Apr 2007 03:03 am    Post subject: Nightwatch 1-12
By JLH

Sewing up the Gap, one big-ass cape at a time! 

------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #1 [Apr 1994] 
Writer: Terry Kavanagh 
Breakdowns: Ron Lim 
Finishes: Al Milgrom 
"Life On The Edge" 

Cast: 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
SALVO/BARRET GAGE 
TRANQ/ 
CUTTER/ 
IMPAKOV TWINS 
SHELL II/ (dies) 
GAUNTLET II/ALFREDO (in shadow) 

Other characters: 
Riker's Island Warden 
Other Press People 
Deep (locked up assassin guy) 


Summary: Nightwatch drops in on Ryker's Island, after a cyborg mercenary named Salvo and his gun-toting team called the Warforce, hold a visiting group of press members hostage in an effort to break out an assassin from jail. Peter Parker happens to be among those reporters and photographers, and during the smokebombing, slips away and into his Spider-Man attire, joining Nightwatch in the battle. Though most of the Warforce members are easily taken down, Salvo escapes in a helicopter. Nightwatch, stunned to find that Salvo's special weaponry is the only thing to ever damage his costume to the point it can't repair itself, follows. Salvo ditches the chopper, Nightwatch struggles to keep it from smashing into the city. Once he does that, he confronts Salvo, and essentially uses his own firepower against him. Defeated and his body damaged, Salvo reveals he used to be a HYDRA agent until he woke up on an A.I.M. operating table, being given his bio-armory by Dr Morelle. Recognizing that name from his past, Nightwatch proceeds to salvage some parts from Salvo's bio-armory to repair his mysterious suit, the seemingly and strangely compatable technology interfaces and causes his costume to change in style! (as most people note, he goes from a Spawn lookalike to an Azrael one) Spidey drops by, giving him the usual talking-to he gives gritty anti-heroes, despite the fact Nightwatch has sworn never to kill. Nightwatch departs, leaving the armorless Salvo for the cops, and once home atop the Ansonia Apartment Building, he firmly vows to embrace society instead of trying to withdraw as he had. Meanwhile, at Ryker's, the assassin the Warforce was trying to break out is confused by the claims they were after him, unaware that it was a fellow prisoner who was really the one they came to free! 


Flashback: A slightly shorter (and far more well drawn) version of the origin of Nightwatch from WOSM 100/2. 


Continuity notes: Nightwatch's change of costume will be a permanent thing, at least until near the end of the series. 

Spider-Man's attitude and demeanor isn't especially pronounced one way or another (he's not overly angsting, so this likely isn't very immediately following his robot parents' deaths.) 

Avengers Mansion is shown, it's the giant A version. 

Man, is it me or at this point in time was Ron Lim drawing every other Marvel Comic being published? 


Goofs: The prison is called "Riker's" throughout the issue. It'll be fixed as "Ryker's" in the next few. 

Ashley Croix's hair is micolored brown in the flashbacks, instead of yellow, as it was shown in the originally published version of it. 

The birthmark on Trench's neck, important to the plot of his origin, is never drawn on him in any of these issues, even in the flashback to the tale that had it and mentions it! 


------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #2 [May 1994] 
Writer: Terry Kavanagh 
Breakdowns: Ron Lim 
Finishes: Al Milgrom 
"Flashpoint" 

Cast: 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
FLASHPOINT/LT. TRAVIS SLAINE 
FOX, KILLIAN 
CROIX, DR. ASHLEY (BTS, Killian is housesitting for her while she's away on business) 
GAUNTLET II/ALFREDO (in less shadow) 

Other characters: 
Shadowy four guys 
Four fellow divers (die) 


Summary: A big old powerful and semi-sentient asteroid approached Earth, and some SHIELD satellites blew it up. But five shards of it remained intact, and fell into the ocean just off New York City. Some shadowy military figures have given the task of recovering the final shard to a former Navy SEAL, Lt. Travis Slaine, with promise that if he does it successfully he'll get off lightly at his upcoming court martial. He leads a team of divers down into the treacherous trench, only to find the shard, dubbed "flashpoint", has become activated by the energy of the devices they're using to attain it from the sea walls. Though Travis survives the impact of the shard's explosion, pieces of it become imbedded throughout his skin! In a rage, he returns to the vessel and attacks his commanders. As his body is now acting as a conduit for the shards, he calls himself Flashpoint, and draws upon the alien energy of the shards, which feed upon all ambient sound, light waves... the whole spectrum of energies. It gives him increased strength, and he can shoot off energy from his fingers, and can melt metal and stuff. So, Nightwatch defaces his own tombstone, then drops by the Morelle Complex, trying to find his thought-dead girlfriend, Ashley Croix, who apparently lives there now. His setting off of the security systems traps the occupant of her apartment, her friend Killian Fox. Nightwatch learns Ashley is in San Francisco on company business, and uses his suit's durable cape and enhanced reflexes to destroy the security system, saving Killian. He departs before the guards can enter, Killian letting him go, but mentioning the fact Ashley has a son! Nightwatch is upset by the news she went on with her life after he "died", but is distracted when he notices the radiation trail left by Flashpoint. Ya see, Flashpoint is now seeking out the other shards of the meteor. As Nightwatch discovers, the radiation leakage around Flashy keeps him from making contact with any blows thrown, and he absorbs the kinetic energy, making him denser! Nighty swipes the shard and takes to the skies, with Flashy following by surfing on energy waves in his wake to follow. Thanks to his scientific background and knowledge, Nighty realizes Flashy is going to implode and take out the city with him, so he tries luring him away. On a lark, he tosses the shard at him, which is actually what he wanted. It cools Flashpoint down somewhat, but if he wants to save the city, Nightwatch'll have to help him steal the remaining two shards! Meanwhile, at Ryker's Island prison, guards talk about reports of Nightwatch in Central Park. This news reaches the mysterious guy from last issue, with a mad-on for Nightwatch as it was before he ruined his escape. He relays his instructions to launch the Mechamorph Agenda, targeting Nighty! 


Continuity notes: The breakout attempt from last issue was "yesterday". 


Goofs: According to his tombstone, Trench died on March 16th. But it was a week after graduation at ESU. Is it normal for a college to have graduation the first week of March? 

Despite his claims of having the shards imbedded in his body, Flashpoint's diving suit has not a single hole anywhere on it. 


------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #3 [Jun 1994] 
Writer: Terry Kavanagh 
Breakdowns: Ron Lim 
Finishes: Al Milgrom + Keith Williams 
"Mechamorph" 

Cast: 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
FLASHPOINT/LT. TRAVIS SLAINE 
PROUST, PAUL 
VANDAL/ (BTS, is later revealed to have been the architect of Mechamorph) 
FOX, KILLIAN 
CARDIAC/DR. ELI WIRTHAM (partially offscreen, arm only) 
TRENCH, DRAKE (FB only) 
GAUNTLET II/ALFREDO 


Other characters: 
Mechamorph (robot) 
Edward and Katherine Trench (both FB only) 


Summary: Nightwatch aids Flashpoint in breaking into the government research center on Plum Island, with the intent of keeping him from killing any of the guards. Flashy's still growing denser, and is building up to the mother of all radioactive implosions, and hopes the remaining star-shards will keep him from doing so. Lucky for Nighty, the center where the remaining shards are being held has a gravity well! Nightwatch tricks Flashpoint into going into the well, he tosses the last two shards at him, and just before he can go kablooey, he hits the button which seals the well. The inertia inversion of the gravity well helped to keep the force of the implosion away from Flashy as he went critical, but in the process, there's nothing left of him. Nightwatch flees from the army, but while he does so, he bumps into a guy in a flying harness. Paul Proust, who works at Morelle Pharmaceuticals, has some info to share about Nighty's costume, in exchange for the promise of a future favor. Seems Morelle is working on something called "Project Sharksin", which looks indentical to his suit, over in San Francisco. With a lead on his suit's origins, and aware that a beastial-looking robot called Mechamorph is stalking him in the shadows, Nightwatch goes to sleep in his little spot atop the apartment building. The suit runs on adrenaline, ya know, so he ends up crashing for nearly a day solid. When he awakens, he goes to the Columbus Community Center to do some research. One of the workers there is Killian Fox, who just happens to spot him and decide to accompany him inside and talk with him a little. Trench calls an old friend, Dr Eli Wirtham, but only gets a machine (though we see someone is indeed there, screening the calls). Trench gets something to eat, talks with Killian, and is reminded of his past. He soon calls up his parents, discovering new people moved in once his mother and father died! He takes off for the bronx cemetary, discovering his parents' plots, both having died during his exile from society. But while morning, he's left open for an attack by Mechamorph! It's a big silver sharp-edged thing that can morph into different attack modes and stuff, ya see. Trench fights it off long enough to slip into his Nightwatch costume. This provides a better chance of success against the single-minded bot, but just as he figures out who's behind sending it after him, his cape sets off an overload of its internal circuitry. When the smoke clears, only Mechamorph remains, and sets off to enact its secondary objective: freeing the one-eyed man called Gauntlet from Ryker's Island Penitentiary! 


Flashback: Baby Kevin Trench, his mother Katherine and father Edward, and Uncle Drake, in a yard probably about 40 years ago. 


Continuity notes: Paul Proust mentions he's "building a collection", putting this just prior to his Black Cat mini appearances, just as the production point also does. 

Nightwatch mentions that Deathgrin (from WOSM@ 9) is "probably dead" and Salvo (from issue 1) is still in the hospital. 


------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #4 [Jul 1994] 
Plotter: Terry Kavanagh 
Scripter: Joey Cavalieri 
Penciler: Mark Tenney 
Inkers: Thomas Florimonte, Timothy Tuouhy 
"Gauntlet" 

Cast: 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
GAUNTLET II/ALFREDO 
REYNARD 
WARRANT II/GRAY GARRISON 
VANDAL/ 
TRENCH, DRAKE (Voice Only) 
FOX, KILLIAN 
CARDIAC/DR. ELI WIRTHAM 


Other characters: 
Mechamorph (destroyed) 
Member of the Silverado gang 


Summary: The Mechamorph bursts into Ryker's to free Gauntlet, but it turns out Nightwatch stowed away inside of it! Unfortunately, the robot shorted out the locks on all the cells, thereby creating a prison break. Nighty tries to aid the guards in stopping the prisoners from rioting or fleeing, but in the process gives Gauntlet a chance to slip out. Nightwatch searches for any trail of his old enemy, but fails to find him. As dawn approaches, it's time for Trench to get some sleep. Elsewhere, the bounty hunter called Warrant awakens to his partner/boss Reynard informing him of a new assignment in NY: find Gauntlet! Speaking of whom, Gauntlet ducks into his secret hideout, and prepares to make his chosen codename apt as he prepares to take possession of a newly designed power glove. But the guy who built it for him, and also made the Mechamorph, a criminal engineer called Vandal, stops him with a rifle. He was told he was making it for the Kingpin, and unless he pays him for the work, he won't get the glove. Despite the fact the glove has a high-voltage shield around it, the man called Alfredo shoves his hand into it, frying him a result. Not to mention, it fuses the glove to his left hand, thereby making his codename of Gauntlet a permanent one. Coincidentally, the hideout happens to be in Trench's old neighborhood, which he is passing through on his way to make a phonecall to his Uncle Drake. Since he's calling collect, and gets Drake's machine, he's unable to leave anything but a query for his uncle. Behind him, Warrant arrives at the hideout, confronts Vandal (both having known one another prior) and his explosive entrance catches the attention of Trench. Vandal, it turns out, is a holographic projection, and is safely in his new hideout elsewhere. Warrant is sucker punched by the recovered Gauntlet, but when he retreats, he runs right into Nightwatch! The fight rages through the run-down building above, property damage goes overdrive especially when Warrant joins the fray. Nightwatch decides to save some squatters just before the building collapses. Warrant crawls from the wreckage unscathed, but Gauntlet, having absorbed his foe's electrical charges into his new power glove, is about to shoot him in the back, when Nighty dives in and force-feeds his glove more power than it can take. This causes an explosion, which does nothing to Gauntlet but knock him out. Soon, the cops arrive and Warrant takes credit for taking down the escapee. Later elsewhere, Killian Fox, suspicious of Kevin Trench, tracks his actions at the community center and calls up Dr Eli Wirtham. He tells her the only Kevin Trench he knows has been dead for a decade! And meanwhile, Nightwatch stows away in the baggage compartment of a plane bound for San Francisco. 


Flashback: Just recycled moments from WOSM 97-100, briefly covering Nightwatch and Gauntlet's history together. 


Continuity notes: Reynard and Warrant are part of "Warrant, Inc", putting this after their WOSM appearances. 

Goof: The cover calling Warrant "1994's hottest new character". C'mon, everyone knows that title belongs to Jack Flag! 


------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #5 [Aug 1994] 
Writer: Terry Kavanagh 
Penciler: Mark Tenney 
Inker: Thomas Florimonte 
"Whispers in the Dark" 

Cast: 
SUNSTREAK/DR. JENNY BURKE 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
VENOM 
BROCK, EDDIE 
TRENCH, DRAKE 
FOX, KILLIAN 
CARDIAC/DR. ELI WIRTHAM 
CROIX, DR. ASHLEY 

Other characters: 
Roger Flint (BTS. employee of Morelle that Venom interrogates) 
Silent Shadows (four armored specialty guards) 



Summary: Night in San Francisco, a scientist named Dr Jenny Burke has recently been involved in an accident concerning her research into application of solar energy. Because it was sabotage, and she blames her employers, Morelle Pharmaceuticals, she's become an eco-terrorists named Sunstreak. The gold-bodied woman finds herself surrounded by the police, and her solar-flaring powers enable her to burn through the roof of the building she's on. But the cops can't follow, thanks to blockage of the entranced, caused by Venom! He's there to put a stop to Sunstreak, who's killed a few people in her attempts to bring down Morelle. Venom knocks her out the window, and Nightwatch just happens to pass by and catches her. Venom tries to finish her off, but Nighty refuses to let her be killed. As a result, when they land, she attacks her savior for trying to hand her over to the police. Venom follows, and both he and Sunstreak end up deadlocked with each one smothering the other! Nightwatch breaks their hold, knocking Sunny out. Both Nighty and Venom depart just as the cops arrive. Elsewhere, in Haight Ashbury, Kevin's Uncle Drake listens to the voice of his long-dead nephew on his answering machine for the umpteenth time. His ponderings about the situation are put on hold when Kevin comes to the door personally! Drake immediately punches his nephew for being such a coward as to fake his death, and slams the door on him. In tears, Kevin departs and sets out on his second goal, Morelle Pharmaceuticals. Meanwhile, Eddie Brock does some investigating, calling on his reporting skills, and researches the library to see if Sunstreak's claims about Morelle are true. He reads between the lines and begins to believe her, setting out to find out more from one of the guys from the company shown in a newspaper. Back in New York, Dr Eli Wirtham meets with Killian Fox in his office. She confirms Kevin Trench, his old roomate in college, is alive and well. When Eli mentions Kevin's old girlfriend was Ashley Croix, her friend, she begins to connect Kevin to Nightwatch! She withdraws from Eli and leaves, which arouses suspicion from him, so he prepares to take on his role as the costumed hero Cardiac to help her if she needs it. Back in San Fran, Nightwatch breaks into the Morelle west coast complex, and is stunned to come face to face with his costume, being formed from the ground up, piece by nanotech piece! The scientists flee the scene, but one, Dr Ashley Croix, is agape at the sight of his familiar suit. Nearby, Venom uses the face and access card of the guy from the newspaper, Roger Flint, to get into his office. But, despite having gotten a confession out of Roger that he himself sabotaged Sunstreak's experiment and was working for the big boss Morelle in doing it, he can find no incriminating evidence against him. Venom hears some excitement going on, and decides to check it out. At said scene, Nightwatch prepares to break the cycle of his life and destroy the Nightwatch suit in its infancy. But he's stopped by some armored ninja-like guys called the Silent Shadows. 


Continuity notes: Nightwatch starts out the issue having just arrive in San Fran "this morning". 


Goofs: The Bullpen Bulletins list Steven Butler as the penciler for this issue. He did the cover, though I suspect he was slated to take over the art chores here, and at last second was switched over to WOSM. 

Nightwatch calls Venom "stranger", and they both act like they've never met, despite working together during "Maximum Carnage". And yet, Venom knows Nightwatch's name without his ever saying it! 



------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #6 [Sep 1994] 
Writer: Terry Kavanagh 
Pencilers: Mark Tenney & Roy Burdine 
Inkers: Don Hudson, Thomas Florimonte & Richard Perotta 
"Sins Of The Future" 

Cast: 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
VENOM 
BROCK, EDDIE 
CROIX, DR. ASHLEY 
MORELLE, DR. DAMON 
TRENCH, DRAKE 
FOX, KILLIAN 
CARDIAXE/CHRIS PAXTON 

Other characters: 
Silent Shadows 


Summary: Nightwatch is saved by Venom, who beats up the Silent Shadows. Elsewhere, Ashley tries to convince her husband and company owner, Dr Damon Morelle, not to self-destruct the lab where the fighting is occuring. Nightwatch recovers and prepares to destroy the suit dubbed "Project Sharkskin", but the tube it's in is recalled through some access tunnels before he can. He instead teams up with Venom to take down the Silent Shadows, mostly to make sure they don't end up dead. One of the Shadows downloads the Sharkskin data onto a backup disc and flees, which they all spot, just before Ashley Croix enters and informs them of the lab's impending destruction. Nightwatch freaks out at the sight of his old flame, just as flames engulf the lab. He dives across the room and flies her to safety, with Venom not far behind, just before the complex explodes. Once safely away, Ashley questions Nighty about his suit and his knowledge of her. He keeps his secrets to himself, but is stunned to learn in the battle he sustained fractured bones in his right arm, the last physical difference from his current self and that of the self that died 10 years ago. He begins to ask her about the project, when Venom drops in, having recovered the disc from the remaining Shadow. Ashley departs, Venom stops Nighty from stopping her, and she slips away in the commotion near the complex. His adrenal system in a bad state from his overuse of the suit, Nightwatch pushes himself to reach his Uncle's house, and crashes in more ways than one, through his kitchen window. Once Kevin wakes up later that day, his injures are patched up and Drake has his costume off him. He's also used his experience from his retired role in the intelligence community to decode the backup disc! Schematics of the suit come up, confirming the nanites, which to Kevin were still theoretical. But decoding also triggers a hidden program which connects, via a modem, to Damon Morelle's high tech hub, allowing him to blow up Drake's computer! Morelle then dispatches a "sanitizor" squad to finish them off, and goes to bed with his wife, who is admiring their sick son's picture. As Drake's house goes up in flames, both Drake and Kevin are safely away in a small plane he's had stashed away under another name with no flight plan filed. It helps to have an uncle who's a former spy, don't it? At their destination, New York City, Killian Fox visits Dr Wirtham's office to talk more about Kevin, but finds it empty. Little does she know the man calling himself Cardiaxe is in his secret lab, holding an axe and getting worked up to kill! 


Continuity notes: Not much to say, other than Morelle's bathrobe is identical in color design to Dr Strange's cloak. 


Goofs: Flames surround Venom on all sides... and he's not the least bit bothered by it. His suit doesn't even partially retract or anything! 

Ouch, this issue has two pencilers, three inkers, three letterers, and two colorists! Talk about one big mess. 

Morelle's info screen called Drake a Colonel, yet he's never referred to by this rank... well, anywhere at all in the series. 



------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #7 [Oct 1994] 
Writer: Terry Kavanagh 
Pencilers: Roy Burdine -n- Grant Miehm 
Inkers: Thomas Florimonte -n- Grant Miehm 
"Collision Course" 

Cast: 
CARDIAC/DR. ELI WIRTHAM 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
CARDIAXE/CHRIS PAXTON 
MORELLE, DR. DAMON 
FOX, KILLIAN 
CROIX, DR. ASHLEY 
MORELLE, NOLAN 
TRENCH, DRAKE 


Summary: Kevin Trench reunites with his old buddy Dr Eli Wirtham at his medical skyscraper in New York City. Unbeknowst to Eli, an espionage agent named Chris Paxton has been lurking around his building, getting into the secret lab behind his office and stealing Wirtham's secret Syntheti-Skin research data. Who's he working for? Why, Dr Damon Morelle, of course. He's also taken on some of the Syntheti-Skin and bio-weaponry designs Eli uses for his Cardiac persona to create costumed identity for himself, Cardiaxe! Eli and company are sort of onto Cardiaxe, who has been siphoning a low level of energy to use in his experiments, which those at the Wirtham Institute have been trying to track for over a week. He asks for Kevin's help in helping in tracking down this power drain, thereby helping him get back on his feet (and keeping him close enough to keep an eye on in case he's not really the previously presumed Trench). Kevin uses the institute's resources to get up to date on technorganic breakthroughs in the decade he's been out of commission, in relation to the mysterious Project Sharkskin. As he does this, Cardiaxe is putting the final boost of power into his beta-charged axe, knocking out power to the building. Kevin then runs into Cardiaxe, making his presence known at last. The power outage in his building doesn't go unnoticed by Eli, who is having dinner with Killian Fox, in an effort to tell her he's finally met the Kevin Trench she's been inquiring about (and to try to score with her. He's got a thing for the gal, ya know). Once he notices the problem in his building, he takes off. Kevin switches to his Nightwatch garb and fights Cardiaxe, soon joined by Cardiac himself. Long fight short, Cardiac tries to kill Cardiaxe, Nighty stops him, and the cops take the tech-stealing, guard-attempting-to-kill criminal away. Over in San Francisco, Dr Ashley Croix is playing basketball with her mummy-like son, when she gets a call from her pal Killian, who mentions the public resurfacing of Kevin Trench! Ashley takes off for NYC, while Dr Morelle, fearing Cardiaxe squealing on his involvement, takes off with his son. Meanwhile, Kevin's Uncle Drake, at their new apartment at the Ansonia building, continues going through the Sharkskin disc. He finds info files on Salvo, and the previously unseen Camouflage and Warbringer models of the Sharkskin technology. But when he loads the latter file, the info is completely locked out. 


Continuity notes: Kevin says his arm injury last issue was "a couple of weeks ago" (and Killian says Trench walked into her community center "last month"), meaning the biggest gap in time so far is between issues 6 & 7. Considering both other characters' chronologies, and the fact his costume matches this point, this is likely when Nightwatch drops by Morbius' funeral in MORBIUS 29. 


Goofs: Wait, so how did Drake get the disc back? It was in the computer that blew up last issue! 



------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #8 [Nov 1994] 
Writer: Terry Kavanagh 
Penciler: Roy Burdine 
Inkers: Thomas Florimonte & Roy Burdine 
"Into The Night" 

Cast: 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
TRENCH, DRAKE 
FOX, KILLIAN 
CROIX, DR. ASHLEY 
MORELLE, DR. DAMON 
MORELLE, NOLAN 
WARBRINGER/NOLAN MORELLE 


Other characters: 
Camouflage Prime (and the six other Camouflage Cadre guys) 
Carvers 



Summary: At their Ansonia apartment, Drake informs Kevin of some of the things he's found out on the file about Sharkskin. The main thing is it seems to be a military application as a weapon, at least, that's it's basic function. Killian Fox and Ashley Croix show up at the door, and a long-awaited reunion between former lovers occurs. There's some explaination, such as how Ashley got off the plane before it took off and went with her now husband, Dr Morelle. Killian notes Kevin's reaction to this news is the same as Nightwatch's when he learned Ashley had a kid. Drake reveals to Ashley that Damon took off with their son, Nolan, once Cardiaxe fingered the company. Anyway, since she's married to the guy behind his suit, Kevin holds back in revealing the whole truth to Ashley. Meanwhile, Damon has taken Nolan to the Morelle space station, where the bandaged-bodied boy will be cured of his skin condition by being bonded to the nearly completed Sharkskin! Oh, and it turns out the actualization of the nanites causes an energy by-product by way of the incompatible energies... or something... that has been pooled together into a big old portal of chronal power Morelle dubbed the Time Bomb. Uhh, so, back in New York, there's some dopey stuff trying to establish Killian is attracted to Kevin. Just forget it, since it's dropped quickly. So, Ashley confirms Drake's claims, and up on the satellite, Morelle tells his special guards in the Camouflage sharkskins to protect the place from any intruders. Remember that plane Drake has? Well, he uses it to fly Kevin to Florida, so he can then head for the Morelle launchpad as Nightwatch. Per Ashley's info, there's a shuttlebug there he can use to get up to the satellite. But it's guarded by some guys called the Carvers! Fight, fight, fight, fight, no kill, fight. Responding to the threat, the nanites in his suit mutate the design slightly, giving his gloves, boots and bicep armors longer edges. Like it matters, he beats up the Carvers and swipes the shuttlebug, taking off his mask in time for Ashley to come on the video thing as not to give up his identity. One of the Carvers damages the guidance systems before he can take off. So he goes flying into space "blindly". Up on the satellite, as the Camouflage Cadre prepares for Nighty's arrive, the Time Bomb lets slip through its energies someone from the future, a mysterious figure wearing the as-yet-uncreated Warbringer armor, calling himself by that name. 


Flashback: One page montage of the Nightwatch origin, nothing new told. 


Continuity notes: This issue reveals Dr Damon Morelle was BTS in the WOSM 100/2-FB, having saved Ashley by having her come with him on his private jet, instead of that ill-fated flight Nightwatch caused to explode. 

The Fold, the shadowy government agency so very evil, is mentioned as being whom Morelle worked with to get military contracts to get the satellite launched and the tech to help make Sharkskin. 

Yes, slight change to Nightwatch's costume, he's got sharper, longer blades on all his armor bits. If he appeared in other books, this would be important for placement, but he doesn't so it isn't (it does mean a new corner box for the cover this issue). 


Goofs: Why the hell are there so many groups of ninja-like assassin guys working for Morelle, yet only the Camouflage Cadre uses Sharkskin tech? Don't get me started on the fact Morelle has the Camos guard the satellite, then the Carvers come out of nowhere the next scene to actually guard the launchpad. 



------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #9 [Dec 1994] 
Story and Art: Terry Kavanagh & Roy Burdine 
Inkers: Thomas Florimonte & Abraham Madison 
"All Roads Lead To Then" 

Cast: 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
CROIX, DR. ASHLEY 
MORELLE, DR. DAMON 
MORELLE, NOLAN 
WARBRINGER/NOLAN MORELLE 
FOX, KILLIAN 
TRENCH, DRAKE 
CARDIAC/DR. ELI WIRTHAM 


Other characters: 
Shadowed member of the Fold 
Camouflage Prime (and the six other Camouflage Cadre guys) 


Summary: Nightwatch is in the Shuttlebug 2, heading to space, and out of control! Ahhh! Thanks to some assistance by Ashley via her vidlink to him, he's able to avoid catastrophy and approaches the satellite safely. On said sat, Nolan prepares for the scary procedure that'll bond him to the Sharkskin to cure his skin condition. His father, Dr Morelle, informs his shadowy government Fold-member partner that he's more concerned with his son's safety than working for them. He's kept from them the Timebomb, which he reminds us about in brain-aching detail, how it'll soon engulf the satellite and he's trying to find a way to get rid of it while not stopping the Sharkskin development that's causing it. Back in NYC, Ashley loses the signal from Kevin's craft, but in seeing enough of the costume in the visual, Killian confirms her suspicions, that he's actually Nightwatch. Drake, meanwhile, continues flying around in Florida. Just to let you know. Back at the Morelle building in New York, Cardiac breaks in (despite increased security), in an effort to find out what the company that had Cardiaxe infiltrate the Wirtham Institute is really up to. He ends up in Ashley's lab, and decides to kidnap Killian in an effort to get some truth from someone he knows (but doesn't know he's Cardiac). Up in space, Nightwatch avoids getting blown up with his spacecraft, and gets aboard the satellite only to take a beating from the Camouflage Cadre! Did you know these are probably some of the same guys who go back in time and are chased by future Nightwatch? No? Well, as it turns out, we see the three or so Camos that actually were the ones who nearly killed Kevin 10 years ago getting sent into the Timebomb vortex by Dr Morelle! He set the coordinates of date and location to match the last time he can conclusively place Trench prior this satellite attack, Kennedy Airport a decade ago. Kevin, his Nightwatch costume nearly decimated in his fight against the Camos, is helpless to stop history from being written before his eyes. To make things worse, Warbringer makes himself known, grabbing Morelle to stop his mad schemes yet to happen! Or something. 


Continuity notes: It's been a "day" since Morelle and Nolan went up to the satellite. 

A guard on the roof of the Morelle building mentions the complex ahs taken some hits in the "last couple of months", which is footnoted to Nightwatch 2-3, and Black Cat 1-3. 


Goofs: The first panel on page 9 has the moon not only dangerously close to the Earth, the skies are unnaturally pink! Is this a Crisis "Pink Sky" crossover? 

Nightwatch claims "nearly a dozen" Camoflage agents surround him. When is six "nearly a dozen"? 



------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #10 [Jan 1995] 
Plot: Terry Kavanagh 
Script: Joey Cavalieri 
Art: Grant Miehm 
"Ground Zero" 

Cast: 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
MORELLE, DR. DAMON (dies) 
WARBRINGER/NOLAN MORELLE 
MORELLE, NOLAN 
CARDIAC/DR. ELI WIRTHAM 
FOX, KILLIAN 
CROIX, DR. ASHLEY 
TRENCH, DRAKE 

Other characters: 
Camouflage Prime (and two others) 
More shadowed Fold members 
Prior (only Fold member unshadowed and named) 


Summary: So, Nightwatch is facing the moment when he'll go back in time to save his younger self, and die in the process, thus giving "birth" to his costumed identity. But Warbringer has other plans. Needless to say, Nighty avoids doing what is necessary to ensure his survival, and instead follows the tube holding Nolan as it's placed in a shuttlebug and jettisoned safely to Earth. Nighty gets off it before it takes off, he just wanted to be sure the kid was okay, but he does snag the "original" version of the Sharkskin, which links up with its nearly-destroyed future self and restores Kevin Trench to full Nightwatch status. Warbringer breaks Damon Morelle's neck, but not before showing him his true identity. Down on Earth, Cardiac interrogates his "captive", Killian Fox, about the dirty laundry of Morelle Pharm. Ashley Croix works with Drake Trench to find out who's been in contact with the satellite, pinpointing it as being the Office of National Security. At said government agency, the secret cabal called the Fold decide to pay back Morelle for cutting them off on something they helped fund, and so a destructor pulse is sent to the satellite. So, the sat starts to burn up in the atmosphere as it falls to Earth. Warbringer prepares to hope in the Timebomb again and set things right for Kevin, since he did ensure the boy got off safely. But Nightwatch tries to stop him, since he killed Morelle and must be held accountable in a court of law and crap like that. So Warry tosses Morelle's body into the portal, and they battle as the place explodes around them. To make things worse, the Timebomb controls are smashed, overloading the chronal energies and such. Down in Wirtham's lab, Killian is told the story of Morelle's company's badness against Wirthram, and when Cardiac is questioned why it matters to him, he takes off his mask in front of her! Back on the satellite, more fighting happens, with Nightwatch the victor simply by force of will over advanced technology. Now he's got a choice: stop the Timebomb, or go back in time to save his younger self at the cost of his life! Back in NYC, Drake calls up an old buddy at O.N.S. (Marvel's NSA, apparently) and gets Ashley Croix a job working for him, in an effort to use the role to find out what secret connection they have to Morelle's company. Said friend is a member of the Fold, and as the Fold learns, their attempts to be rid of Morelle's satellite have sent it crashing directly towards New York City! 


Continuity notes: Nightwatch is back in his old style costume. Yes, so, forget all those costume changes from before. They're gone. 


Goofs: Page 7, a Camouflage Agent is shown pinning Morelle's arms behind his back. Not only does this not make sense storywise, it's not even mentioned in the dialogue, AND he's gone when we next seen Morelle! 


------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #11 [Feb 1995] 
Writer: Terry Kavanagh 
Penciler: Roy Burdine 
Inker: Abraham Madison 
"Down To Earth" 

Cast: 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
WARBRINGER/NOLAN MORELLE (also BTS in FB; dies) 
CARDIAC/DR. ELI WIRTHAM 
FOX, KILLIAN 
CROIX, DR. ASHLEY 
TRENCH, DRAKE 
MORELLE, NOLAN 



Summary: Nightwatch's origin 10 years ago happens again as it should, but this time, Nightwatch from the present does things differently, and avoids getting killed by the Camouflage Cadre. He shows his younger self who he is, then stops the hijacking of the plane Ashley was supposed to be on without making the rookie mistake that blew it up originally. Nighty gets the girl, kissing Ashley after his successful rescue, only to have his younger self attack him for stealing his girlfriend! 

That was all a fantasy. Nightwatch never goes back in time like he wants to, since Warbringer stops him. Why does he want him not to do what he has to? Well, because Warry is actually Nolan Morelle from the future! Ya see, he landed safely on Earth following this incident as a kid, but because Nightwatch jumped into the Timebomb and didn't stick around to stop the satellite from crashing, it caused a big old catastrophe that wiped out all of New York City. So, to keep this from happening, both Warbringer and Nightwatch must use impossibly large guns created by their suits to overload the Timebomb and cause it to implode and swallow the satellite. Nighty grabs one of Warry's suit-made guns, which interfaces with his suit and begins to upgrade his costume with the future tech. Or something. Meanwhile, Cardiac's identity is safe, since Killian didn't look, not wanting the burden of the knowledge. But she does agree to help him out in his weeding out the bad seeds from Morelle. She then introduces him to Ashley and Drake, now all working together in this sting operation. Nolan, having landed safely in Florida, phones his mother. On the satellite, Warbringer and Nightwatch succeed in their mission, the Timebomb consuming the sat before it can crash into the city. It's at the cost of their lives, or so it seems, as one of the occupants is jettisoned into Times Square just in time. From the impact spot where he lands, Warbringer recovers all a'smoking, proclaiming Nightwatch is dead! 


Flashback: Shot of NYC post-destruction, from Warbringer's now-parallel future. No appearances, though Warry would be BTS in the shot since he says he experienced it. 


Continuity notes: Nightwatch's costume changes to that of Warbringer's. He doesn't take on that name at all, for the record. 

"New York City" and "ground zero" in the same sentence, with rubble of the World Trade Center in the shot. Yeah, nothing creepy in hindsight there! 


Goofs: There's virtually no way Killian DIDN'T see Cardiac's real face last issue, yet here we're supposed to ignore that panel and say she didn't see anything. 

There's never any mention of the fact there's some Camouflage Cadre guys in the past right now, there to kill Kevin. Instead of present Kevin going back, as happened originally, Dr Damon Morelle's dead body should be dropping in. There's no ripples in time, no problems at all from preventing something from happening that was predestined. In fact, no mention whatsoever even remotely! What SHOULD have been said was something along the lines of, "As the Timebomb closed around him, Warbringer altered his suit's nanites to not only revert back to the previous Sharkskin mode, but to alter his obviously malleable skin to make him appear to be Kevin Trench as he is now. This way, it's alternate future Nolan who gave him his costume, time is preserved, and Kevin's future is unwritten." But, nooooo. 



------------------------------------ 
NIGHTWATCH #12 [Mar 1995] 
Plot: Terry Kavanagh 
Script: Joey Cavalieri 
Pencils: Roy Burdine 
Inks: Abraham Madison 
"The Exile's Return" 

Cast: 
CARDIAC/DR. ELI WIRTHAM 
FOX, KILLIAN 
NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
TRENCH, DRAKE 
CROIX, DR. ASHLEY 
MORELLE, NOLAN 

Other characters: 
Prior 


Summary: So, Dr Eli Wirtham and Killian Fox are dating, and just following dinner, they return to his institute, both expressing their longing for their pal, Kevin Trench. Suddenly, Warbringer shows up, the guy they believe killed their buddy! He tries to get Killian to come with him, but she resists and Eli ducks out to take on his role as Cardiac, who then does his best to stop the presumed killer. Their battle trashes the lab they end up in, and Cardiac's bio-staff is destroyed in Warry's display of superior firepower. All of this is pointless, since Warbringer turns out to be Kevin Trench anyway, having survived the satellite crash after all. Cardiac, always eager to have Killian learn his true identity, once again exposes himself to her as Eli. Thanks to the trauma of the crash, and some of the real Warbringer's nanites added to his suit, Nighty's costume has advanced to that of Warry's. Soon in a lab, Kevin fires at some mirrors, trying to attack his suit with equal high power to force it to make like the Timebomb and implode upon itself. Killian and Eli watch helplessly as he basically forces the creation of another Timebomb by forcing the evolution of the suit beyond Warbringer. Though the lab is unable to contain the power, it turns out now Kevin is bonded with the suit in such a way he can envelop the Timebomb in on himself, harnessing the power with ease. But in doing so, he apparently is wiped from existance. At least, that's what Killian and Eli see. 

Meanwhile, in Washington DC, Drake Trench keeps his old buddy with the Office of National Security busy at a bar, while a mysterious person in black sneaks into his office and downloads files from his computers on the cabal called the Fold. Who's that lady? Why, it's Ashley Croix, recent employee of that office! She returns to the hotel where Drake is babysitting Nolan. Nolan, by the way, has had the Sharkskin nanites applied to his skin and is cured of his disease by way of the bonding creating a new skin. Or something! 

So, it turns out Kevin survived and faked his death once again. He lurks in the shadows, in a hybrid of all forms of his suit, watching through the night to ensure the safety of the future. Or something. 



Continuity notes: It's been a "week" since the satellite incident. 

The way the issue ends, Nightwatch should next appear in a new version of his suit. Instead, when he pops up in SMU 14, he's reverted back to his original costume again, Ashley isn't surprised he's alive, and his suit is as easily overwhelmed by multiple adversaries as it would have been when he first started out with it well before this series began and he started upgrading. He dies without going back in time or anything, making the situation about his past even worse. Course, that story did at least remember Nolan has the nanites in his body, and that Cardiac was his pal. 


Goofs: The cover has Nightwatch, pre-reversion to his old costume (meaning sharp-edged), beating up a wall high in the skies, or something. It's really crap. Have I mentioned how awful the art is? I mean, the story's no prize at all, but man. Roy Burdine has gone on to work in animation, such as on those putrid "Kangaroo Jack" direct to video toons, and even the recent TMNT series. Just shows it pays to suck at art. 

How does Eli know about Nightwatch's battle with Warbringer? I mean, there was no video monitoring of the events on the satellite! 

Kevin talks about the TV show about "the starbase that's parked outside a black hole". Since when has he had time to watch TV? He's been either living on the streets or busy fighting people! 

Eli mentions how Kevin had to wipe out his "uncertain and unpleasant future self". Uhh, what? This has nothing to do with anything we've seen thus far. 

The Wirtham Institute has its top levels wiped out. Yet, the final page has it, without any time having passed, magically restored! 

Once again, the final panel mentions Kevin's "own dark future has been averted". WHAT dark future? He's never said to become evil, and his timetravel to die in the past has been completely swept under the rug! RARGH! 


------------------------------------ 


I'm not relisting Reynard and Warrant's chronologies, since I did them up to here in my WOSM annual listing. 



NIGHTWATCH/DR. KEVIN BARRY TRENCH 
(added middle name) 
**NIGHTW 3-FB 
WOSM 100/2-FB 
... 
WOSM 106/2 
**NIGHTW 1 
**NIGHTW 2 
**NIGHTW 3 
**NIGHTW 4 
**NIGHTW 5 
**NIGHTW 6 
**MORBIUS 29 
**NIGHTW 7 
**NIGHTW 8 
**NIGHTW 9 
**NIGHTW 10 
**NIGHTW 11 
**NIGHTW 12 
ASMU 14 


SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
... 
ASMU 5/2 
**NIGHTW 1 
ASMU 6/2 
... 


**SALVO/BARRET GAGE 
(current Salvo in the MCP should be renamed "Salvo II") 
NIGHTW 1 

**TRANQ/ 
NIGHTW 1 

**CUTTER/ 
NIGHTW 1 

**IMPAKOV TWINS 
NIGHTW 1 

**SHELL II/ 
NIGHTW 1 

GAUNTLET II/ALFREDO MORELLI/"RICHARD FISK" 
(adding last name, and alias, since he posed as Fisk for much of his appearances) 
**WOSM 30-FB 
**{ASM 282} 
**ASM 287 
**ASM 288 
**WOSM 29 
**WOSM 30 
WOSM 84 
... 
WOSM 100 
**NIGHTW 1 
**NIGHTW 2 
**NIGHTW 3 
**NIGHTW 4 

**FLASHPOINT/LT. TRAVIS SLAINE 
NIGHTW 2 
NIGHTW 3 

**FOX, KILLIAN 
NIGHTW 2 
NIGHTW 3 
NIGHTW 4 
NIGHTW 5 
NIGHTW 6 
NIGHTW 7 
NIGHTW 8 
NIGHTW 9 
NIGHTW 10 
NIGHTW 11 
NIGHTW 12 

PROUST, PAUL 
**NIGHTW 3 
BCAT 1 
BCAT 2 
... 


CARDIAC/DR. ELIAS "ELI" WIRTHAM 
(added full first name) 
... 
SOV 22 
**NIGHTW 3 
**NIGHTW 4 
**NIGHTW 5 
BCAT 1 
BCAT 2 
BCAT 3 
ASMU 7/2 
**NIGHTW 7 
**NIGHTW 9 
**NIGHTW 10 
**NIGHTW 11 
**NIGHTW 12 
ASMU 14 
... 

**VANDAL/ 
NIGHTW 3-BTS 
NIGHTW 4 
BCAT 3 

**SUNSTREAK/DR. JENNY BURKE 
(current Sunstreak should be given an added "II") 
NIGHTW 5 


**TRENCH, DRAKE 
NIGHTW 3-FB 
NIGHTW 4-VO 
NIGHTW 5 
NIGHTW 6 
NIGHTW 7 
NIGHTW 8 
NIGHTW 9 
NIGHTW 10 
NIGHTW 11 
NIGHTW 12 


VENOM 
... 
V:MACE 3 
**NIGHTW 5 
**NIGHTW 6 
V:NOV 1 
... 

BROCK, EDDIE 
... 
V:MACE 3 
**NIGHTW 5 
**NIGHTW 6 
V:NOV 1 
... 


CROIX, DR. ASHLEY 
(added doctor title) 
WOSM 100/2-FB 
**NIGHTW 2-BTS 
**NIGHTW 5 
**NIGHTW 6 
**NIGHTW 7 
**NIGHTW 8 
**NIGHTW 9 
**NIGHTW 10 
**NIGHTW 11 
**NIGHTW 12 
ASMU 14 


**MORELLE, DR. DAMON 
WOSM 100/2-FB-BTS 
NIGHTW 6 
NIGHTW 7 
NIGHTW 8 
NIGHTW 9 
NIGHTW 10 

**CARDIAXE/CHRIS PAXTON 
NIGHTW 6 
NIGHTW 7 

MORELLE, NOLAN 
**NIGHTW 7 
**NIGHTW 8 
**NIGHTW 9 
**NIGHTW 10 
**NIGHTW 11 
**NIGHTW 12 
ASMU 14 

**WARBRINGER/NOLAN MORELLE 
NIGHTW 11-FB-BTS 
{NIGHTW 7} 
NIGHTW 8 
NIGHTW 9 
NIGHTW 10 
NIGHTW 11

			*	*	*

Thread 33

Posted: 12 Apr 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos 51-61
By Col_Fury

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #51 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Winston Churchill, FDR, Hitler 

pg1-pg8 
Jorgen Kline has been chosen specifically by Hitler to assassinate the Big Three at the Teheran Conference. To ensure he will do this, the SS is holding his wife and son hostage. Meanwhile, the Howlers are preparing to go out on the town when Capt. Sawyer arrives and informs them that theyll be acting as security at the conference tomorrow. They take the night off, and Dino runs into Jorgen in a bistro. 
pg9-pg20: next day 
The Howlers prepare for their security detail when they notice that Dino is missing. Meanwhile, Dino is being interrogated by Jorgen, but Dino tries to talk him out of his mission instead. Later, the Teheran Conference begins with President Roosevelt, Prime Minister Churchill, and Premier Stalin attending. As Jorgen prepares, Dino tries to make his way into the conference to warn everyone, but the shooting starts and the others Howlers burst out and fight the SS troops stationed outside. Dino makes his way back to where he was held and finds Jorgen. He explains that he couldnt assassinate the leaders, and then kills himself. Back in Berlin, Jorgens son is taken by the SS to be raised in a camp, and his wife is to be executed in the morning. 

References: 
Stated as happening on 28 November, 1943. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #52 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer 

pg1-pg8 
On the last leg of their trip back from Teheran, Capt. Sawyer and the Howling Commandos are shot down over Poland, outside Treblinka. After parachuting to safety and burying the pilot who didnt make it, Sawyer decides to proceed on a mission he had planned: Liberate Dr. Karl Von Rusteg from Treblinka. Meanwhile in Burma, Izzy is tortured for information, but he refuses to talk. 
pg9-pg20: next day 
The Howling Commandos free some prisoners on work detail and borrow their prison uniforms. Once inside the prison they locate Dr. Von Rusteg and quickly free him. 

References: 
Continued of sorts, from last issue. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #53 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Lee Mayer, Red Hargrove-FB 

pg1-pg19pn4 
After some training exercises, Capt. Sawyer and Lee Mayer of the OSS give the Howlers their mission: capture Otto Froebe, a brilliant German military strategist. They parachute into Bavaria and storm the castle where Froebe is stationed. 
Pg19pn5-FB 
Fury and Red Hargrove put on an aerial show. 
pg19pn6-pg20: next day 
The Howlers succeed in their mission. Elsewhere, Hitler is not pleased with the news. 

References: 
No Izzy in this issue! 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #54 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer 

pg1-pg4 
Capt. Sawyer informs the Howling Commandos that theyll undergo specialized training. Among other things, Pinkerton will be trained in demolition to replace Izzys specialty. Meanwhile in Burma, Izzy decides that hes had enough and puts together an escape plan. 
pg5-pg13: next day 
Izzy escapes the guards and loses them in the jungle. Meanwhile, the Howlers are trained at base. Back in Burma, the General overseeing the prison orders the Colonel in charge during Izzys escape to kill himself, so he can die with honor. The General takes charge of finding Izzy. 
pg14-pg20: next day 
Izzy is recaptured and brought back to the prison compound. Back in England, Sawyer informs the Howlers that their training is being cut short; he has a mission for them. 

References: 
Sawyer finally gets around to addressing Izzys missing specialty,(munitions) and sets about training the Howlers to compensate. This would suggest that not a lot of time has passed since issues 49-51. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #55 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, 

pg1-pg2 
Dressed in Gestapo uniforms, the Howling Commandos are caught in an Allied air raid. They try to find cover, but are caught in the attack. 
pg3-pg20: next day 
The Howlers wake up in a Nazi run hospital. They escape with the help of a nurse who resembles Pam Hawley, but Gabe is captured. When the Howlers meet with the French Resistance, the nurse is revealed to be a spy. 

References: 
Last issue ended with a mission for the Howlers, and Im under the impression that the beginning of this issue is the end of that mission. Nothing states that in the book, but it feels like it is. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #56 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, 

pg1-pg20 
Gabe escapes while being transferred, and begins to make his way to the rendezvous point. In France, the Howlers wait for their pick up at the rendezvous point. Gabe steals a vehicle and meets with Frenchie, who has a mission for Gabe before he reunites with the Howlers: rescue captured American Jazz singer Carla Swain. He does so and meets with the other Howling Commandos. 

References: 
Continued from last issue. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #57 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Jim Morita, Adolph Hitler 

pg1-pg14 
Capt. Sawyer gives Fury his mission: He and the Howling Commandos are to rescue the captured Jim Morita. They parachute into Germany near prison Camp 13, put up a fight and surrender to get inside. They meet the other prisoners and discover that an informer is telling the guards when breakouts will happen, and suspect Captain Tim Corbett. Sgt. Fury is soon put into solitary confinement for mouthing off to the commandant. 
pg15-pg20: three days later 
The Howlers have been tunneling under the prison walls, making the informer think theyll attempt a breakout. Instead, theyve rescued Fury from solitary. Elsewhere, Hitler is informed of the Howling Commandos captivity, and sends for them to be brought to Berlin for execution. With the guards positioned in the wrong place from the false information, the prisoners break out easily, and discover the real informer when he refuses to drink from Gabes canteen. Capt. Corbett shoots him and apologies are made. Elsewhere, Hitler informs the commandant that he will be executed instead of the Howlers, for letting them escape. 

References: 
This is the first break since issue 49. Theres still no Izzy, though. 

Said to be in the summer of 44, but that doesnt quite work with how Sgt. Fury lines up with Captain Savage, and future temporal references in upcoming issues. Oh well. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #58 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Adolph Hitler, Hermann Goering, Agent of 1,000 Faces 

pg1-pg9 
Upset over the inability to defeat the Howling Commandos, Hitler rants to Hermann Goering and Joseph Goebbels. Goering has a solution; send the Agent of 1,000 Faces after them. After Hitler voices some skepticism, Goebbels reveals that he is the Agent of 1,000 Faces, surprising him. Later, Bull McGiveney tells Dino that Sawyer is looking for him, who then tells Dino he will be escorting actor John Barrywell around town. He does, but Barrywell is the Agent of 1,000 Faces and captures Dino. 
pg10-pg20: next day 
The Agent of 1,000 Faces, posing as Mr. Pierce of the OSS, tells Sawyer that Dino has been captured and they should relocate the base, its security has been compromised. Instead, Sawyer sends the Howlers to rescue Dino and capture the Agent, who has the compromising information. They go to Denmark and fall into a trap, but reveal Pierce as the Agent, defeat him, and rescue Dino. 

References: 
Another fairly stand-alone story, but Im taking Hitlers ranting to be a reaction from last issue. Nothing states that, though. Still no Izzy. 

Thats not actually Goebbels, its the Agent of 1,000 Faces! 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #59 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Adolph Hitler, Col. Fritz Klaue, Agent of 1,000 Faces 

pg1-pg7 
Izzy Cohen returns to active duty with the Howling Commandos. Meanwhile, Col. Klaue convinces Hitler to let him go after Fury with his new hand, that has a flame-thrower and dart gun in it, amongst other things. As the Howlers celebrate Izzys return, Klaue challenges Fury over the radio. 
pg8-pg9: same day 
Capt. Sawyer orders him to ignore Klaue, and to not go after him. Fury decides not to tell the other Howlers until the morning. 
pg10: next day 
Dum Dums not happy with Furys orders, so he decides to go after Klaue himself. 
pg11pn1-pg11pn4: next day 
Dum Dum orders Eric to fly him to Klaue. 
pg11pn5-pg16pn2: same day 
Dum Dum radios that Fury is on his way. Back at base, Sawyer demands to know why Fury disobeyed orders, but Furys still asleep. Dum Dum attacks Klaue and is captured. 
pg16pn3-pg19: same day 
Capt. Sawyer and the Howlers overtake Klaue and his men. 
pg20: same day 
Afterwards, Dum Dum is arrested for disobeying orders. 

References: 
Issue 60 will have FlashBacks that take place in between panels of this issue, so I have the breaks listed above for easier reading. 

Captain Sawyer doesnt actually appear in this issue, as revealed in issue 60. 

Izzys finally back, having been rescued in Captain Savage #6. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #60 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Agent of 1,000 Faces, Col. Fritz Klaue-FB 

pg1-pg5pn2 
Dum Dums Court Martial begins. 
pg5pn3-FB: after #59 pg7 
Fury says that hell meet Klaues challenge. 
pg5pn4 
Dum Dums Court Martial continues. 
pg5pn5-FB: after #59, pg11pn4 
Dum Dum and Eric take off. 
pg5pn6 
Dum Dums Court Martial continues. 
pg6pn1-pg6pn2-FB: after #59, pg16pn2 
The Howling Commandos parachute in while Klaue gasses Dum Dum. 
Pg6pn3-FB: after #59, pg19 
Dum Dum knocks Col. Klaue out while the Howlers watch. 
pg6pn4 
Dum Dums Court Martial continues. 
Pg6pn5-FB: after #59 
Sawyer gives Dum Dum his charges. 
pg7pn1 
Dum Dums Court Martial continues. 
pg7pn2-pg7pn4-FB: after #60, pg6pn5-FB 
Capt. Sawyer has Dum Dum taken away. 
pg7pn5-pg8pn3 
Dum Dums Court Martial continues, and Dino testifies. 
Pg8pn4-pg8pn6-FB 
Recaps Sgt. Fury 38, no new information. 
pg8pn7-pg9pn1, 
Gabe testifies. 
Pg9pn2-pg9pn3-FB 
Recaps ah, see below. 
pg9pn4-pg9pn5 
Pinky testifies. 
Pg9pn6-pg9pn7-FB 
Recaps Sgt. Fury 50, no new information. 
pg10pn1, 
Izzy testifies. 
Pg10pn2-FB 
Recaps Sgt. Fury 49, no new information. 
pg10pn3, 
Reb testifies. 
Pg10pn4-pg10pn5-FB 
Recaps Sgt. Fury 24, no new information. 
pg10pn6-pg11pn1 
Eric testifies. 
Pg11pn2-FB: between Sgt. Fury 35 & 36 
Dum Dum trains Eric with Gabes, Rebs, and Izzys help. 
pg11pn3-pg11pn4 
Nick Fury testifies. 
Pg11pn5-pg11pn7-FB 
Recaps Sgt. Fury 34-FB, no new information. 
pg11pn8-pg20 
Dum Dum is found guilty, but Fury reveals that Sawyer is actually the Agent of 1,000 Faces. The decision is reversed, because Sawyer never charged Dum Dum, it was the Agent. 

References: 
The issues starts with the date October 13, 1943. That cant possibly work because of the continued plot lines since issue 49. To make matters worse, Gabes FlashBack is to D-Day, as shown in Sgt. Fury Annual #2. The problem is, both Izzy and Dum Dum were in Annual #2, but Izzy had been off the team between issues 49 & 59. Dum Dum was arrested at the end of issue 59, and theres no breaks to be had in that issue. To make matters even worse, Sawyer is being tortured for information regarding the upcoming Allied Invasion(D-Day) in issue 61. Thankfully, in the letters column in issue 63, the editor admits that the D-Day reference in issue 60 was a mistake.(one would presume that they 'fixed' it with the torture scene in issue 61) Therefore, Ill just ignore Gabes FlashBack, and wont suggest a placement for it. Unless someone wants me to. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #61 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer 

pg1-pg20 
After being tortured for the Allied invasion plans, Capt. Sawyer signals Allied planes passing by. The message is forwarded to Able Company base, where Capt. Flint then gives Fury his mission: rescue Sawyer. The Howlers make their way to Germany while Sawyer frees himself and finds Axis maps and plans. The Howlers eventually find him and they all get out of there. 

References: 
Continued from last issue. 

For the first time since issue 49, all the Howlers are together and theres no ongoing plots. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #62 shows the basic training of Nick Fury. Its not a FlashBack with current book-ends, its set entirely in the past. A placement was suggested here. 

Some placement suggestions! 

FURY, SGT. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH 
 
SGTF 7 (11:1 -11:3)-FB 
*SGTF 53-FB 
M/HOL 1994 JAN/2 (4:4)-FB 
SGTF 34 (3:3 - 17:7)-FB (05/40) 
 
SGTF 50 (11/43) 
CS 1 (11/ 43) 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 52 
*SGTF 53 
*SGTF 54 
*SGTF 55 
*SGTF 56 
*SGTF 57 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 (1-7) 
*SGTF 60 (5:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (8-16:2) 
*SGTF 60 (6:1-6:2)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (16:3-19) 
*SGTF 60 (6:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (20) 
*SGTF 60 
*SGTF 61 
CS 11 
 


DUGAN, TIMOTHY ALOYISIOUS CADWALLADER "DUM DUM" 
 
SGTF 35 
*SGTF 60 (11:2)-FB 
SGTF 36 
 
SGTF 50 (11/43) 
CS 1 (11/43) 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 52 
*SGTF 53 
*SGTF 54 
*SGTF 55 
*SGTF 56 
*SGTF 57 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 (1-7) 
*SGTF 60 (5:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (8-11:4) 
*SGTF 60 (5:5)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (11:5-16:2) 
*SGTF 60 (6:1-6:2)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (16:3-19) 
*SGTF 60 (6:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (20) 
*SGTF 60 (6:5)-FB 
*SGTF 60 (7:2-7:4)-FB 
*SGTF 60 
*SGTF 61 
CS 11 
 


RALSTON, ROBERT "REB" 
 
SGTF 35 
*SGTF 60 (11:2)-FB 
SGTF 36 
 
SGTF 50 (11/43) 
CS 1 (11/43) 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 52 
*SGTF 53 
*SGTF 54 
*SGTF 55 
*SGTF 56 
*SGTF 57 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 (1-7) 
*SGTF 60 (5:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (8-16:2) 
*SGTF 60 (6:1-6:2)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (16:3-19) 
*SGTF 60 (6:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (20) 
*SGTF 60 
*SGTF 61 
CS 11 
 


MANELLI, DINO 
 
SGTF 50 (11/43) 
CS 1 (11/43) 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 52 
*SGTF 53 
*SGTF 54 
*SGTF 55 
*SGTF 56 
*SGTF 57 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 (1-7) 
*SGTF 60 (5:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (8-16:2) 
*SGTF 60 (6:1-6:2)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (16:3-19) 
*SGTF 60 (6:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (20) 
*SGTF 60 
*SGTF 61 
CS 11 
 


JONES, GABRIEL "GABE" 
 
SGTF 35 
*SGTF 60 (11:2)-FB 
SGTF 36 
 
SGTF 50 (11/43) 
CS 1 (11/43) 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 52 
*SGTF 53 
*SGTF 54 
*SGTF 55 
*SGTF 56 
*SGTF 57 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 (1-7) 
*SGTF 60 (5:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (8-16:2) 
*SGTF 60 (6:1-6:2)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (16:3-19) 
*SGTF 60 (6:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (20) 
*SGTF 60 
*SGTF 61 
CS 11 
 


COHEN, "IZZY" 
 
SGTF 35 
*SGTF 60 (11:2)-FB 
SGTF 36 
 
SGTF 50 (11/43) 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 52 
*SGTF 54 
CS 6 
*SGTF 59 (1-7) 
*SGTF 60 (5:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (8-16:2) 
*SGTF 60 (6:1-6:2)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (16:3-19) 
*SGTF 60 (6:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (20) 
*SGTF 60 
*SGTF 61 
CS 11 
 


PINKERTON, PERCIVAL "PINKY" 
 
SGTF 50 (11/43) 
CS 1 (11/43) 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 52 
*SGTF 53 
*SGTF 54 
*SGTF 55 
*SGTF 56 
*SGTF 57 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 (1-7) 
*SGTF 60 (5:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (8-16:2) 
*SGTF 60 (6:1-6:2)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (16:3-19) 
*SGTF 60 (6:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (20) 
*SGTF 60 
*SGTF 61 
CS 11 
 


SAWYER, CAPTAIN SAMUEL 
 
SGTF 48 
M/CP 77/3 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 52 
*SGTF 53 
*SGTF 54 
*SGTF 57 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 61 
CS 11 
SGTF 70 
 


KOENIG, ERIC 
 
SGTF 35 
*SGTF 60 (11:2)-FB 
SGTF 36 
 
SGTF 50 (11/43) 
CS 1 (11/43) 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 52 
*SGTF 53 
*SGTF 54 
*SGTF 55 
*SGTF 56 
*SGTF 57 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 (1-7) 
*SGTF 60 (5:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (8-11:4) 
*SGTF 60 (5:5)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (11:5-16:2) 
*SGTF 60 (6:1-6:2)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (16:3-19) 
*SGTF 60 (6:3)-FB 
*SGTF 59 (20) 
*SGTF 60 
*SGTF 61 
CS 11 
SGTF 110 
 


MCGIVENEY, SGT. BULL 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 
SGTF@ 4-FB (12/44) 
SGTF@ 3 (KOREA) 


HARGROVE, CHIP "RED" 
SGTF 7-FB 
SGTF 34-FB-FB 
*SGTF 53-FB 
SGTF 34-FB 


CHURCHILL, SIR WINSTON 
 
SGTF 41 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
WI? 4 


ROOSEVELT, FRANKLIN DELANO 
 
CA 01 (08/42) 
*SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
MSU 9 (01/45) 


HITLER, ADOLF 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 51 (11/27/43) 
*SGTF 53 
*SGTF 57 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 
SVTU 17 (14:1-14:2)-FB 
 


GOERING, HERMANN 
HUMAN TORCH 3/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 2/2 
SGTF 27 
SGTF 28 
*SGTF 58 

KLAUE, COL. FRITZ 
SGTF 39 
**FFU 1/2-FB 
SGTF 41 
SGTF 47 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 59 
(the text in FFU 1/2-FB says it follows shortly after Klaues first appearance, so Ill suggest moving it to match. Also, heres his first name) 

AGENT OF 1,000 FACES 
*SGTF 58 
*SGTF 59 
*SGTF 60-FB 
*SGTF 60 

MAYER, LEE 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 53 

MORITA, JIM 
SGTF 38 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 57 

DUFFY, SGT. MIKE 
 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 22/3 
*CA 219-FB 
TOS 69/2 
TOS 70/2 
(Duffy doesnt appear in any of these, I just noticed that I didnt suggest this for him yet) 

Up next: more Sgt. Fury!
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Thread 34

Posted: 14 Apr 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Chronology Review for DD2 #94
By Kevin W.
Director

Daredevil #94 
Our Love Story 
Written by Ed Brubaker 
Art by Lee Weeks and Stefano Gaudiano 

Appearances: 

Daredevil/Matt Murdock 
Milla Donovan 

Synopsis: Its perhaps a few nights, or even weeks after the end of the last story arc, (DD2 93). 

This ones simple. Late one night, Milla wakes up to find Matt isnt in bed with her. Matt is out patrolling as Daredevil, (the story cuts to panels of him fighting crooks in the streets), while Milla flashes back to all of the major events in their lives since they met each other. She has this horrible feeling that their love is doomed. Thats it, the end. 

References: There are numerous flashbacks to stuff weve seen previously during Bendis run on the Daredevil book, but there is some new flashbacks. 

Pg. 5p3:FB- A one-panel flashback to Millas first love, a goth punk in high school. They are kissing at a rock concert. 

Pg. 5p4:FB- A one-panel flashback to another early love of Millas: here we see her riding on the back of a motorcycle behind a leather jacket wearing punk. Milla narrates that shes always been drawn to dangerous men, (and thats why she became interested in Matt, she thinks). 

Pg. 7p3-6:FB-This flashback contradicts prior material, so I believe well have to not count this flashback. In it, we see Foggy, Ben, and Milla standing over Matts bed at the Night Nurses hospice, (hes recovering from the Yakuza attack in DD2 57). Milla is stunned to learn that Matt only married her because he was having a nervous breakdown, still reeling from Karen Pages death years ago, and she flees the Night Nurses place in tears. This did not occur. In DD2 60, after Matt has been released from the Night Nurses place, and after he goes back and defeats the Yakuza, its THEN that Milla confronted Matt, (back at their house) and she left in tears. 

Pg. 10: FB- Theres a flashback on this page, to the period back when Milla and Matt were separated and getting divorced. Milla has received Matts signature, which would finalize the divorce, but Milla consults with her lawyer, and finds herself unable to officially file the divorce, (she decides she still loves Matt after all). This would mean that Matt and Milla are still technically married, (it was somewhat unclear before now as to whether their divorce was finalized back during that arc). 

Pg. 11p2-5:FB-This flashback occurs between DD2 76 and 77. Milla had just returned into Matts life in DD2 76, and now we see what they were doing inbetween the two issues: making love in the hotel. 

Pg. 12p3-4:FB-This flashback occurs between DD2 79 and 80. Milla is back in the hotel room, watching the news, which is reporting that Daredevil has been shot and may be dead. 

Pg. 14p2-15:FB-This flashback occurs after the Punisher and Matt escape from prison in DD2 87. Milla is walking down the street worried about where Matt is, when shes approached by reporters and asked if shes still in contact with Matt. She goes home and cries, waiting for Matt to call her. We then cut to a short time later, in which we see Milla inside a restaurant, being comforted by some friends, who tell her that Matt will come back safely. 

Pg. 16p4-5:FB-This flashback shows Milla and Matt in bed together. This occurs in the middle of DD2 93, after Matt came back, though before his charges were officially dropped in court. Matt and Milla are shown just happy to be back together. 

Pg. 20p4-21p3:FB-This flashback is to a recent morning before the present day events of this issue. Milla wakes up to find Matt up already, and asking her to go to breakfast with him. Millas happy hes come back from his Daredevil patrol okay. 

And now, I present to you the complete Milla Donovan MCP listing, (as it should be listed...well, except for the notes detailing what's shown in the flashbacks, you can take those out):  

DONOVAN, MILLA 
DD2 94-FB, (The scenes showing teenage Milla in love with her early boyfriends). 
DD2 41 
DD2 42 
DD2 43 
DD2 44 
DD2 46 
DD2 48 
DD2 49 
DD2 56-FB (the page showing Matt with goatee, coming out of hiding as the new Kingpin of New York) 
DD2 74-FB (pgs. 7-11: the scene showing Milla telling her friend that shes going to marry Matt) 
DD2 74-FB (pgs. 1-3: the marriage scene between Matt and Milla). 
DD2 56-FB (the page showing Matt and Milla walking together down the streets of a cleaned up Hells Kitchen) 
DD2 56-FB (the scene showing Matt and Milla walking home, being ambushed by the Yakuza) 
DD2 57 
DD2 58 
DD2 59 
DD2 60 
DD2 64 
DD2 74-FB (Pgs. 14-18: the scene showing Milla at work, when her friend gets a phone call about the Jester hostage crisis). 
DD2 94-FB, (the scene showing Milla deciding not to file the divorce papers after all). 
DD2 76 
DD2 94-FB, (the scene showing Matt and Milla making love, in-between Issues 76 and 77). 
DD2 77 
DD2 78 
DD2 94-FB, (the scene showing Milla watching the news, and hearing reports that Matt has been shot). 
DD2 80 
DD2 83 
DD2 86 
DD2 87 
DD2 94-FB, (the scene showing Milla being questioned by reporters after Matt has escaped from Rykers). 
DD2 93 
DD2 94-FB, (the scene showing Milla and Matt in bed together, after Matt has returned from being a fugitive). 
DD2 93 
DD2 94-FB, (the scene showing Milla waking up to find Matts okay, and they go out to have breakfast together). 
DD2 94 

Thats it for now. Look for the analysis for Incredible Hulk vol. 3 #104 and 105 soon.
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Thread 35

Posted: 13 Apr 2007 02:29 am    Post subject: Blackwulf 1-10
By JLH

A hidden war, hidden from even the initial Gap list! 

------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #1 [Jun 1994] 
Chronicled by: Glenn Herdling 
Rendered by: Angel Medina 
Embellished by: Bill Anderson 
"Where Monsters Dwell" 

Cast: 
BLACKWULF/PELOPS 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN 
TANTALUS 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN 
WRAATH 
BRISTLE 
SCHIZO 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS 
TOUCHSTONE 
TOXIN 
WILDWIND 
KHULT 


Other characters: 
Four slimey subway hoodlums 


Summary: So, let's recap. There's a group of Deviants living under New York City, and have been for a long, long time. Their leader is an orange fellow who calls himself Lord Tantus. He's got a pair of similarly-appearing sons named Pelops and Lucian. Lucian is the "inferior" son, has a black line down his face that signifies his race's genetic instability and even increases in size in accordance to his rage at any given moment. Tantalus has a group of "Peacekeepers" who work for him, and they're often opposed by a group of fellow warriors who call themselves the Underground, and are led by a mysterious man in a black mask, calling himself Blackwulf. They're trying to overthrow Tantalus, ya see. Anyway, Pelops and Lucian spar, and the winner, Pelops, is given the task of leading the Peacekeepers as they seek out a woman from the surface world, known as Dr Caitlin Maddox. She's a specialist in DNA, one whose research they hope will help stablize their race's genes. Lucian argues and gets given the chance to prove himself by leading the group instead. So, the Peacekeepers (who in this mission, are Lucian, Schizo, Bristle, and Wraath) head up to the subway and intervene on an attack on Dr Maddox by some hoodlums. Her saviors then proceed to kidnap her, but it's foiled by Blackwulf, Mammoth, and Sparrow! Wraath makes it pretty clear that he's the future version of Mammoth, with a cyborg arm and darker skin & attitude, yet nobody pays any attention to the obvious. Sparrow is attacked by a large beer can, following Schizo's disorientation blast. Bristle's projectile knocks Dr Maddox onto the rails as a subway train heads toward them. Blackwulf tries to rescue her, but Lucian stops him, by inflicting his "black legacy" birthmark power thing upon him. But Blackwulf makes a comment that Pelops always says, distracting Lucian enough for him to break free and make a rescue attempt again. Luckily, Sparrow beat him to it. The Peacekeepers retreat defeated, and Maddox is taken to the Underground's very above-ground mansion headquarters owned by Mammoth. She then meets the rest of the team, including Touchstone (who likes Caitlin better in the red dress she doesn't own), Toxin, and WIldwind. Oh, and nobody knows Blackwulf's real identity but his lover, Sparrow. Who is he really? Why, Pelops, of course. He explains to Dr Maddox the history of his race of Deviants, and how he's been working with the government to bring down Tantalus, who sent him to the surface world to infiltrate society, which he instead embraced. Sparrow is a government agent assigned to his team. Tantalus wants to subjugate humanity, ya know. So, Blackwulf heads down to his father's palace and tries to convince his brother to leave there and join his side on his team. Lucian refuses, but also manages to keep from killing his brother. Tantalus, however, has no such compuncture, and zaps Pelops, withering his body into nothingness (though not before urging his brother to keep his dream alive). He prepares to have his dead son eaten, and informs his wizardy associate, Khult, that the prophecy of one of his son's betraying him came true. Little does he realize, that aware he can never amount to anything in his father's eyes, Lucian takes up the mantle of Blackwulf, intending on making his own destiny by destroying Tantalus' empire! 


Continuity notes: Wildwind mentions Dr Broadhurst, whom we'll meet in issue 3/2. 

Goofs: Mammoth calls Sparrow "Songbird" at one point. 

Though called "Dr Kaitlin Maddox" here, her first name is changed to "Caitlin" starting with next issue. 

Schizo's speech patterns and behavior in this series don't match the way she was portrayed in her Thunderstrike appearance at all. 

Wildwind's hair color changes between panels. 

Despite the obviousness of it, the word "Deviant" isn't mentioned at all until issue 10, in regards to the characters' history. Even weirder is how grounded the story is in Tantalus and the people of his kingdom 



------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #2 [Jul 1994] 
Words: Glenn Herdling 
Pictures: Angel Medina 
Inks: Bill Anderson 
"Crossroads" 

Cast: 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
BLACKWULF/PELOPS (head only) 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN 
WRAATH 
BRISTLE 
SCHIZO 
LADY TRIDENT 
TANTALUS 
KHULT 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN 
MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS 
TOXIN 
WILDWIND 
BROADHURST, DR. OLIVER (BTS) 
SKRULL-PRIME (also in FB) 
SKRULL PILOT (also in FB) 
SCORCH/MAJOR ROSS JONAS 


Other characters: 
Id (BTS) 
Couple of generic underworld guys 



Summary: The head of Pelops is mailed to Sparrow's house. Where's the rest of his corpse? Why, it was consumed the night before in a grand feast down in Lyonesse. There, the Peacekeepers (which now include Lady Trident, who must've been out sick last issue) are gathered by Lucian, who declares his disdain for his father, which doesn't go over well with the loyalists. Tantalus shows up and mocks Lucian's decision to become the new Blackwulf, not even finding the "genetic inferior" worth the effort to stop when he departs the kingdom. Tantalus visits Khult, whose lab has recently been attacked by the being called Id, and learns of the lack of progress in getting the transponder online. He merely wants to be reunited with a woman named Nirvana on his home planet, apparently. So, back at Mammoth's place, the Underground team consoles Sparrow over the loss of Pelops. She's convinced Lucian was the one behind his death, and is more intent on taking down Tantalus than ever. Dr Maddox believes she knows where the Peacekeepers will strike next, as she has history working in Dayton, Ohio at Wright-Patterson AFB on a pair of genetically different Skrulls. The team heads over there (minus Sparrow, who's not fit for duty, and Touchstone), and ends up running into Lucian! Despite their inability to trust him, he warns them of the Peacekeepers' presence and saves their lives. They do give him the benefit of the doubt enough to join them, as the new Blackwulf, in trying to stop Tantalus' goons. Inside Hangar 18, the guy in charge, Major Jonas, is having a fit as the Deviants are making off with the top secret material. The Underground shows up to stop them, and while the two teams battle it out, Jonas swallows some experimental Skrull juice and an explosion of liquid nitrogen behind him following it seems to finish him off. So, the Peacekeepers make off with the genetically-instable Skrull, while the other is left behind. With the Army pressing in and no way to return to their craft, the Underground swipes an experimental stealth fighter to make their getaway. Wildwind's got a thing for high tech, ya see. The team escapes into the air, only to be shot down by Major Jonas, who is now a human torch of blue flame! 


Flashback: July 9th, 1947. A pair of spacecrafts crash, and their inhabitants, two Skrulls (later 'named' Skrull Pilot and Skrull-Prime) are brought to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. A white-haired scientist examines them, with two military guys looking on. He then determines the differences between them, one is a genetically-stable Skrull, which we now know is extinct, and the other is the genetically-instable Skrull we all know and loathe! 


Continuity notes: Id is never shown. Nor is it ever explained what his deal is, if he works for Blackwulf or is on his own, or anything, just that he's another of Tantalus' children. 

Nirvana, who appears in a vid image picture-thing, won't appear physically until issue 8. 


Goofs: Wildwind's hair is brown this whole issue. It'll be yellow next issue onward. 



------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #3 [Aug 1994] 
Writer: Glenn Herdling 
Pencils: Angel Medina 
Inker: Bill Anderson 
"Scorched!" 

Cast: 
SCORCH/MAJOR ROSS JONAS 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN (also in FB) 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN (also in FB) 
MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS (also in FB) 
TOXIN (also in FB) 
WILDWIND (also in FB) 
SKRULL-PRIME 


Other characters: 
Army guys (only one named is Reilly) 


Summary: Major Jonas, now going all bible-thumping with comments while harnessing his blue flame powers, takes on the name of Scorch. He lingers behind and notices Blackwulf crawling from the wreckage, believing his new teammates to be dead. He attacks the villain for seemingly killing them, but is nearly defeated by his overwhelming flame. Suddenly, Scorch's powers conk out, allowing Lucian to bean him with a rock. He then discovers the team did manage to get away from the plane before it exploded, through WIldwind wasn't so lucky, having sacrficed herself, basically, to ensure their safety. As they mourn, Scorch revives and repowers. This time, the battle goes better for Blackwulf with Mammoth helping out. Just when they get the upperhand, the Army arrives to apprehend the intruders. Needless to say, they're confused by the change their commander has gone through, but they do arrest Dr Maddox and the Underground anyway. A short while later, Caitlin is locked in a private chamber, which is soon opened just to push in the remaining Skrull body they have in its cryogenic tube. She's stunned to learn this creature, the genetically-stable one, one she experimented upon many times and many others have done the same to it for nearly half a century, is still alive after all! Major Ross soon enters the chamber, and shows off his new costume to go with his Scorch name. 

Flashback: The penultimate page of last issue, shown from the inside of the stealth fighter when it was hit and before it exploded. Blackwulf, Wildwind, Mammoth, Dr Maddox, and Toxin escape thanks to Windy blowing the hatch and using her air-current control to sway them to the ground safely before the explosion. 



---------------- 
Story 2: 
"Song of the Sentry" 
Writer: Glenn Herdling 
Pencils: Mike Gustovich 
Inker: Bill Anderson 


Cast: 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
TOUCHSTONE 
BROADHURST, DR. OLIVER (shadowed face) 
SENTRY 459 
ULTRON 
ROSSI, COL. MICHAEL "MICKEY" 

Other characters: 
Mr Mason (head agent of an unnamed government agency) 
Rex (Ultron's robotic doggie) 



Summary: Sparrow dreams of marrying Pelops, with Mammoth as the preacher. The dream turns into a nightmare when he takes off his head. She awakens and is comforted by Touchstone, who assures her in all realities, Blackwulf loved her. Soon, in Dr Broadhurst's lab, the reclusive scientist talks over a vid-screen to Mr Mason, the government agent who seems to be in charge of the Underground operation. Comments are made implying that Wildwind is nothing more than an android Broadhurst created. Anyway, Mason informs Sparrow of a fellow agent named Michael Rossi, who went missing in Ottsville, Pennsylvania following investigating a report of a giant alien robot. In a mood to keep her mind off her dead boyfriend and with her teammates away, Sparrow flies to Ottsville, and finds Rossi in an abandoned mine shaft. They explore, together, deeper, and discover a large Kree Sentry robot within a strange lab. Sparrow discovers too late that Rossi has wires sticking out of his head. She knocks him out, only to be shot down by the being behind the cyborging of her fellow agent, the robot called Ultron! 



Continuity notes: Why Broadhurst's face is shadowed in this issue, I'm not sure. He's called by his full name here, his identity is more known by that than it is by his face! 

Ultron's got a reddish armor to his body in this format. 

There's a page of pencils by Angel Medina at the end, showcasing the original first page of issue 1, prior to a last minute complete rewrite. Whatever the hell was going on in it is entirely contradictive of how they ended up going with the book once it was published, and it makes ya wonder if it would've been any better. 


Goofs: Bullpen Bulletins claimed that this issue of the book would have a Sentinel join the team. Whether they honestly confused the Sentry with one, or if the original intention was to put a Sentinel in the book, I really don't know. 

The Sentry's physical appearance here (and next time) doesn't look like it does in any other issue, possibly meaning it WAS originally intended to be a Sentinel. 



------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #4 [Sep 1994] 
Written by: Glenn Herdling 
Penciled by: Angel Medina 
Inked by: Anderson + Rankin 
"The Once and Future Skrull" 

Cast: 
SCORCH/MAJOR ROSS JONAS 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN 
SKRULL-PRIME 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN 
MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS 
TOXIN 
WILDWIND 
WRAATH 
BRISTLE 
LADY TRIDENT 
SCHIZO 
TANTALUS 
SKRULL PILOT 

Other characters: 
Various Army troops 



Summary: So, Dr Maddox kicks Scorch in the groin and bonks him with his own helmet during his lengthy speech. She injects the comatose Skrull-Prime with some of that adrenaline stuff that gave Scorch his powers, hoping it'll revive the poor old guy. Timing is perfect, as the Army catches wind of his escape, and Skrull-Prime awakens quite powerfully, sending the troops into disarray. This frees Blackwulf and company, though Lucian takes a detour to recover Wildwind's dead body. This leads to a confrontation with Scorch, which once again appears to be going in favor of the Major. But Blackwulf plays smarter, using a fire extinguisher to clear the flames enough to make physical contact with his enemy. The Underground team regroups on their craft, and escape at last, bringing with them Skrull-Prime. Down in Lyonesse, Skrull Pilot awakens and begins shape-shifting into various beats while trying to defeat his captors, the Peacekeepers. It's the mere sight of Lord Tantalus, well known throughout the galaxy, that calms the Skrull, and has his volunteering his services. 


Continuity notes: Skrull Pilot mentions he was Emperor Dorreck's finest warrior. 

Goofs: It took a dose of the adrenaline to wake up Skrull-Prime. Why did Skrull Pilot wake up, at the same time, without the same treatment? 


---------------- 
Story 2: 
"Song of the Sentry, Part 2" 
Writer: Glen Herdling 
Pencils: Mike Gustovich 
Inker: Bill Anderson 


Cast: 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
SENTRY 459 
ULTRON 
ROSSI, COL. MICHAEL "MICKEY" 

Other characters: 
Rex (dies) 


Summary: Ultron explains the situation to Sparrow, how Rossi and everyone in Ottsville has been turned into programmable cyborgs. The fact Ottsville fell into a depression following the tapping out of their coal mines made the conversion especially simple. Soon the rest of the world will be converted the same way. Sparrow tries to stop him, and has his dog, Rex, sicced upon her. She manages to destroy the canine bot, which infuriates Ultron. Sparrow then prepares to yank out the cords in Rossi's head, only to be told to do so would be like yanking out his nervous system. She hestitates and is captured by the Sentry. After blacking out, she awakens to find herself having been partially converted, a neural implant now on her brain stem. She's under control of Ultron, forever and ever and ever. For certain! 


Continuity notes: Sparrow is revealed to be a mutant. 

Goofs: The writer is credited as Glen, one N. 

Sentry is still drawn all wrong, for the last time. 



------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #5 [Oct 1994] 
Writer: Glenn Herdling 
Guest Penciler: Keith Pollard 
Guest Inker: Sandu Florea 
"Sale of the Sentry" 

Cast: 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN 
SKRULL-PRIME 
MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS 
TOXIN 
WILDWIND 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN 
TOUCHSTONE 
BROADHURST, DR. OLIVER 
GIANT-MAN/HANK PYM 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
ROSSI, COL. MICHAEL "MICKEY" 
ULTRON 
SENTRY 459 

Other characters: 
Cybernetically-implanted citizens of Ottsville 


Summary: Blackwulf and the Undergrounders return to the team's mansion hideout, with Skrull-Prime. Touchstone, now appearing in her temporal manifestation as a little girl, greets them. When told of Wildwind's death, Dr Broadhurst rushes out and grabs her corpse, ensuring them all is not what it seems, and taking off with it. The doorbell rings, and despite the need to hide the team, Touchstone opens it, to find Dr Henry Pym waiting! He's been called in by the Underground's government liason to aid, as a foremost roboticist, in helping to track down their missing teammate, Sparrow. Pym believes the giant robot in question is a Kree Sentry. The team drives down to Ottsville, and all appears to be normal there. That is, until they discover everyone's been converted into a cyborg, even the animals! Blackwulf and friends drop their charade and let loose on the seeming automatons, only to have Pym grow into Giant Man and try to stop them, explaining that they're still innocent people. They get assistance from Sparrow and Michael Rossi, who seem to be acting like freedom fighters. Once at their hideout just outside town, Sparrow informs her old teammates she's leaving them to join Rossi. Her lack of emotion in regards to seeing Lucian, whom she blames for Pelops' death, leads to the Undergrounders realizing something isn't right. They press on their sore issue with her, and finally get her to break her programming and attack Blackwulf! Touchstone then uses her powers to remove a control chip from Rossi safely. With Sparrow now back on their side, the team follows her to the town church to confront Ultron, who is posing as "Father Ulysses". Giant Man already beat them to it, and is engaged in battle with the Sentry. Ultron slips away in the melee, despite Sparrow's attempts to stop him. The crazed townsfolk are stopped by Touchstone placing a temporal stasis bubble around the church, freezing the control signal and with it, them. Giant Man tosses some Pym Particles on the Sentry, shrinking it down to a managable size, and letting Blackwulf bonk it over the head with his Shadowlance. Later, the team informs the people of Ottsville they've been freed of Ultron's control, and depart as heroes. Unfortunately, as we learn, Pym had to fix the control computers to "simulate" the town's day to day routines. They can't be freed of their cybernetic implants, and all that can be done to help them is to program them to think they have free will! 


Flashback: A brief one-panel shot from Avengers 289, featuring Namorita and someone else battling the Sentry out in the Atlantic Ocean. 


Continuity notes: Giant Man's costume is his red with yellow belt and open hair one that was the standard for him at this point. 

Ultron's donning a hat and trenchcoat, and leaving on a "suddeny urge to attend a Jazz Festival", is a set-up for his appearances in the Vision mini-series. 

Goofs: No mention is ever made of the fate of Michael Rossi, but one could assume he's part of the Ottsville citizens now. 



------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #6 [Nov 1994] 
Penciler: Angel Medina 
Inker: Bill Anderson 
Writer: Glenn Herdling 
"The First Frontier" 

Cast: 
ARISHEM (hand only) 
GODSTALKER 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN 
GIANT-MAN/HANK PYM 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS 
TOXIN 
WILDWIND 
SENTRY 459 
TOUCHSTONE 
BROADHURST, DR. OLIVER 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN 
SKRULL-PRIME 
TANTALUS 
SKRULL PILOT 
WRAATH 
BRISTLE 
LADY TRIDENT 
SCHIZO 


Other characters: 
Id (BTS) 


Summary: Up in the furthest reaches of space, the hand of a Celestial creates a being called the Godstalker. Down on Earth, the Undergrounders return to their mansion hideout, carrying the Sentry atop their van. Dr Pym isn't thrilled with the prospect of them keeping the Kree robot, until Dr Broadhurst argues differently. Wildwind is revealed to have been restored to life, with only Pym and Broadhurst aware of exactly why. After a checkup, Sparrow finds out she lucked out in that the cybernetics didn't infect her higher functions, though she gets all addict-like about the control box. Unfinished business remains for her, as she resumes confronting Lucian over the death of her beloved Pelops. Another battle between them ensues, with Blackwulf gaining the upperhand by using his Black Legacy infliction. He pulls back when he realizes she's using her control box to control her emotions, calling her on her cowardace in facing the tragedy of his brother's death. Meanwhile, down in Antartica, near the Savage Land, the place called Pangea is being used by Lord Tantalus to launch his space vessel known as Vimana. Unfortunately, Id struck prior and destroyed the hyperdrive transponder! His 25,000 year wait for humanity to get technologically advanced enough to exploit has been for nothing, at least, it seems that way for a moment. Skrull Pilot reveals to him the stargate portal near the Earth's sun, and how it can be used to get him to his homeworld of Armechadon, in the Sirius-B system, nearly instantly. Thus, Tantalus and the Peacekeepers board the Vimana and head through it. The Godstalker, way off elsewhere in the cosmos, notices the sudden vanishing of Tantalus, but seems to pick up the "scent" again, and proceeds toward Earth at a faster rate in making Tantalus pay for violating probation! 


Continuity notes: This is the only time the Skrull working for the Peacekeepers is called "Skrull Pilot". Tantalus refers to him as that title. 


------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #7 [Dec 1994] 
Writer: Glenn Herdling 
Pencils: Angel Medina 
Inks: Bill Anderson & Sandu Florea 
"Godstalker" 

Cast: 
MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS (also in FB) 
TOUCHSTONE 
WILDWIND 
TOXIN (also in FB) 
SENTRY 459 (also in FB) 
SKRULL-PRIME (also in FB) 
BROADHURST, DR. OLIVER (FB only) 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN (also in FB) 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA (also in FB) 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN 
GODSTALKER 
SHATTERAX 
ULTIMUS 
KORATH THE PURSUER 


Other characters: 
Mr Hoeffner (Hugh Hefner pastiche) 
Tracey & Stacey (his twin blonde bimbos) 
Hot dog vendor, hooker, taxi driver, and a hooded cab-jacker 


Summary: The Undergrounders infilate the annual fund-raiser of Club Galaxy, a bunch of rich people who don't think space travel should be limited to scientists. Toxin drugs their drinks, but guards are still called in once everyone passes out. Sentry and Skrull-Prime bust in to aid the team, and they all board the Galaxy Club's very own space shuttle. Meanwhile in Manhattan, Blackwulf wanders around the surface world, unable to quite grasp the subtlies of humanity, such as taking a hot dog offered without paying for it, encountering a prostitute, and stopping a cab-jacking by destroying the vehicle! The wacky fish-out-of-water story is interrupted by the sudden appearance of Godstalker. He thinks because the energy signature of Lucian's Shadowlance matches Tantalus, that this means he's his father. So, they battle, with the Shadowlance getting broken in half during the action. Sparrow ends up finding Blackwulf and saving him by using the Shadowlance pieces, funneling her own rage over Pelops' death at the Godstalker. He's seemingly destroyed, and so she takes her reluctant teammate to her apartment. But once Lucian awakens, he informs her Godstalker had teleportation powers beyond belief and isn't likely gone, just before the building they're in explodes around them! Meanwhile, up in space, the Undergrounders pass through the stargate, finding Dr Maddox stowed away onboard. They then spot a huge amount of debris outside of their ship, made up of other spacecrafts, a sure sign of Tantalus having been there before them. As this is Shi'ar space, the Starforce is on the scene, and think the approaching vessel belongs to Tantalus! Shatterax attacks, followed by Ultimus and Korath the Pursuer. The Sentry, thanks to Korath knowing the access codes, stands down mid-battle. The fight doesn't go anywhere, luckily, and the Undergrounders explain the situation to the Starforce. Ultimus claims he was imprisoned beneath the Earth for 3000 years by Tantalus. Skrull-Prime reacts to hearing the name Armechadon, negatively at that. 


Flashback: Dr Broadhurst notices a solar flare at the same time Sentry's telemetry readings skyrocket, indicating the reactivation of the sun's stargate. Realizing Tantalus escaped into outer space, the group prepared to embark on following, only to have Sparrow reveal she chased Blackwulf away. She then stormed off when Mammoth demanded she track him down. Broadhurst suggested then to bring Skrull-Prime and the Sentry to help navigate the stargate, though Dr Maddox was told to stay behind, despite her being the only one who can properly communicate with the Skrull. 

Continuity notes: Skrull-Prime is called as such by Sentry, making this the only actual "naming" of him in the whole run. This issue also reveals Mammoth's public persona and real name to be WIlliam Amos. 

It's mentioned the Stargate was shut down by the Avengers "recently", with a footnote to Avengers #347. 


Goofs: Wildwind's hair is brown again this issue, and remains that way from here on out. So forget I ever said anything. 



------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #8 [Jan 1995] 
Writer: Glenn Herdling 
Pencils: Angel Medina 
Inks: Anderson, Florea, Machlan 
"--Armechadon!" 

Cast: 
TANTALUS 
SKRULL PILOT 
WRAATH 
BRISTLE 
LADY TRIDENT 
SCHIZO 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN 
GODSTALKER 
SHATTERAX 
ULTIMUS (seemingly dies) 
KORATH THE PURSUER 
MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS 
TOUCHSTONE 
WILDWIND 
TOXIN 
SENTRY 459 
SKRULL-PRIME 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN 
BLACKWULF III 
MUGGINS, MAMIE 
NIRVANA 
KHULT 


Other characters: 
Blackwulf III's own Undergrounders (all unnamed, some die) 
Hept-Supht (Armechadon native) 
Kulkulk (another, dies) 
Morty and friend (inhabitants of Sparrow's building) 
Talon (Armechadon guy) 


Summary: The Vimana arrives at Armechadon. Once planetside, Tantalus reminds his people of his existance with a personal appearance. He discovers a "Dark Lord" now rules from the Tower of Tartarus. Gathering up faithful along the way, he and his Peacekeepers approach the tower. On Earth, more fighting between Blackwulf and Godstalker, with Sparrow also helping out, between rescuing people from the rubble of her former apartment building. This escalates until Godstalker takes Lucian away, to his own dimension, leaving Sparrow with the Shadowlance shards. Back on Armechadon, the Undergrounders and the Starforce trio reach the planet just behind Tantalus. There, they encounter a familiar face, the black-masked man named Blackwulf and his Underground! Yes, it was on this world that the legacy of Blackwulf first came into being, and this fellow is only the most recent of a long line of their own versions of the persona Pelops once held, and his brother now does. So, teaming up with this world's Undergrounders, our team helps to take on Tantalus and his ever-growing Peacekeepers. Ultimus is buried alive again, this time by the power of Schizo. Speaking of which, Schizo ends up in a near comtatose state once Touchstone reveals she's her sister. Lots of explosions and deaths abound, mostly people we don't know. Tantalus reaches the tower, and returns home to his beloved Nirvana after 25,000 years. He, along with Dr Maddox who's lurking in the shadows, discovers she's been dead all this time, reanimated by the current ruler of Armechadon... his pal, Khult! 


Continuity notes: Sparrow's landlady, "Mrs. Muggins", expresses how her lease expressly prohibits super-heroes. She has a history with them, as she was once Peter Parker's landlady. 

Blackwulf is confused with Thor, then with the "new guy" Thunderstrike. 

Mammoth reveals he's merely half-Deviant, his mother was one of Tantalus' people. 

The letters page, Wulf Tracks, reveals the series is canceled with issue 10. 


Goofs: Korath apparently gets lost during the battle and doesn't appear anywhere again for a little over a decade. 

Don't let the cover blurb of "Home for the Holidays" fool you: this isn't a Christmas special. 

Ultimus at one point is colored by mistake to resemble Blackwulf, right down to the lack of shirt. 



------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #9 [Feb 1995] 
Writer: Glenn Herdling 
Pencils: Angel Medina 
Inker: Mr. Buzz 
"Tantalus" 

Cast: 
KHULT (also in FB) 
TANTALUS (also in FB) 
NIRVANA (also in FB) 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN 
WILDWIND 
TOXIN 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN (also in FB) 
BLACKWULF/PELOPS (FB only) 
GODSTALKER (merges with the Shadowstaff) 


Summary: Turns out Khult has been scheming against Tantalus all along. While Tantalus has been stuck on Earth for so long since the Vimana crashed while he and his Peacekeepers went there to unite the planet's Deviant factions against human oppressors, Khult has been able to slip back and forth via his magical mirror! There's a lot of stuff that happens, such as Dr Maddox revealed to look identical to Nirvana, Toxin's containment suit being destroyed, and Wildwind turning useless when Tantalus reveals she isn't even alive. Khult uses the mirror to escape to Lyonesse on Earth, where the kingdom has fallen into disarray since Tantalus has been gone. Sparrow awaits, and finally gets some answers out of the wizard, when informed of the Godstalker's capture of Lucian. Anyway, he repairs the Shadowlance, making it even better than ever by allowing it to slip between two-dimensions to slice twixt molecules. Khult gives her passage to Godstalker's dimension, she gives Lucian the lance and news about his mother being alive. Blackwulf slices Godstalker into ribbons, focusing his rage through his Shadowlance into something positive. The Celestial creation merges with the Shadowlance, adding his power to it as Lucian has been proven worthy of carrying out sentence against Tantalus. Now armed with a weapon capable of killing his father, Blackwulf prepares to do so, only to have Sparrow inform him his Black Legacy birthmark is gone! 


Flashback: Thousands of years ago on the planet of Tebble, Tantalus led his forces against fellow Deviant factions. Eventually, he broke into the Building of Knowledge, and encountered Nirvana, who was immune to his death touch. Khult, her father, revealed she was a product of controlled breeding to eliminate the unstable DNA matrix in Deviants. Thus, to save her world, she became Tantalus' mate, and bore him a new child with each conquering of a world, all free from genetic instability. The fourth was Lucian, who had the Black Legacy birthmark upon him, which enraged him. So, Tantalus prepared to leave his wife on Armechadon, his homeworld (which was once called Arqa), she killed herself and he had her body encased in Black Legacy atop the tower as a shrine... or something. He left for Earth with Khult, his kids, and the Peacekeepers, and was later exiled by the Celestials, while Khult snuck back from time to time and used magic to resurrect his daughter. 


Continuity notes: Id is mentioned by Khult, making this the last time he's referred to. 


Goofs: Bullpen Bulletins claimed this issue would feature Daredevil. 

It's never explained why Tantalus' birthmark vanished in the flashback. It clearly passed on to Lucian, but this isn't mentioned at all. 



------------------------------------ 
BLACKWULF #10 [Mar 1995] 
Writer: Glenn Herdling 
Pencils: Angel Medina 
Inks: Buzz + Koblish 
"Black Legacy" 

Cast: 
TANTALUS 
NIRVANA (dies) 
MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN 
WILDWIND 
TOXIN 
SHATTERAX 
MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS 
TOUCHSTONE 
SENTRY 459 
SKRULL-PRIME 
BLACKWULF III (dies) 
SKRULL PILOT 
WRAATH 
BRISTLE 
LADY TRIDENT 
SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN 
GODSTALKER (BTS) 
KHULT 



Summary: Everything comes together, so let's just skip to the end. Touchstone gets all of her temporal manifestations killed, except one. Wildwind's mostly catatonic. Toxin switches sides and joins the Peacekeepers. Blackwulf III is killed. Skrull Pilot is mutated out of shape by Skrull-Prime's power to change others' molecular structure. Mammoth loses his arm to Lucian's new Shadowlance, thus putting him closer on the path to one day becoming Wraath. Sentry's head gets knocked off. Lady Trident is frozen in place, encased in a stasis field where she will feel Touchstone's fingers gutting her for all eternity. Nirvana is freed from her living death by her son Lucian. Blackwful then destroys Tantalus by focusing his Black Legacy rage through him, though Khult warns he's merely displaced and may return one day. He also claims the Black Legacy consumed Tantalus' mind over time, and that's why he turned against him after so long. Anyway, Khult takes Wraath, Bristle, Skrull-Pilot, and Toxin, and teleports them away. The Undergrounders, left in the Tower of Tartarus on Armechadon, have their victory at last, though at a terrible cost. Hey, it could be worse! Lucian could now have entirely ebon black skin as a result of the Black Legacy usage... oh wait, that DOES happen! 


Continuity notes: This is the last time any of these characters have ever appeared, to my knowledge. 


Goofs: The cover isn't even an original drawing, it's a splash page from the book mirror flipped, with the "wolf emblem" used in the corner box stretched out to fill space. That's not a mistake, it's just... horribly lazy. 

Maddox claims she ingested the Skrull Adrenaline Formula, like Scorch did, yet we never saw this happen, nor any place when she could have done so. 

Khult claims Lucian is Sparrow's boyfriend. He's not one for snarky comments, and they haven't had time to do anything but fight each other or others! 


------------------------------------ 

Pandara should probably be given a Deviant tag, as well. 


BLACKWULF/PELOPS [DEVIANT] 
(added real name and race tag) 
**BWULF 9-FB 
TS 6 
**BWULF 1 
**BWULF 2 


BLACKWULF II/LUCIAN [DEVIANT] 
(added real name and race tag. Please remove "Lucian" from MCP, as this is him) 
**BWULF 9-FB 
**TS 6 
**BWULF 1 
**BWULF 2 
**BWULF 3-FB 
**BWULF 3 
**BWULF 4 
**BWULF 5 
**BWULF 6 
DD 334 
DD 336 
DD 337 
**BWULF 7 
**BWULF 8 
**BWULF 9 
**BWULF 10 

**BLACKWULF III [DEVIANT] 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 10 


TANTALUS [DEVIANT] 
(added race tag) 
**BWULF 9-FB 
TS 5 
TS 6 
TS 7 
**A 371 
**BWULF 1 
**BWULF 2 
**BWULF 4 
SECDEF 25 
**BWULF 6 
**BWULF 8 
**BWULF 9 
**BWULF 10 

BRISTLE [DEVIANT] 
(added race tag) 
TS 6 
**BWULF 1 
**BWULF 2 
**BWULF 4 
**BWULF 6 
**BWULF 8 
**BWULF 10 

SCHIZO [DEVIANT] 
(added race tag) 
TS 6 
**BWULF 1 
**BWULF 2 
**BWULF 4 
**BWULF 6 
**BWULF 8 

**WRAATH [DEVIANT] 
BWULF 1 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 4 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 10 

**SPARROW II/H.P. O'DAMIA 
BWULF 1 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 3/2 
BWULF 4/2 
BWULF 5 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 7-FB 
BWULF 7 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 9 
BWULF 10 

**MAMMOTH/WILLIAM "WILLIE" AMOS [DEVIANT] 
(current Mammoth should be given a "II") 
BWULF 1 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 3-FB 
BWULF 3 
BWULF 4 
BWULF 5 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 7-FB 
BWULF 7 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 10 

**TOUCHSTONE [DEVIANT] 
BWULF 1 
BWULF 3/2 
BWULF 5 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 7 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 10 

**TOXIN [DEVIANT] 
(symbiote, not yet in the MCP, should be given a "II") 
BWULF 1 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 3-FB 
BWULF 3 
BWULF 4 
BWULF 5 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 7-FB 
BWULF 7 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 9 
BWULF 10 

**WILDWIND 
BWULF 1 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 3-FB 
BWULF 3 
BWULF 4 
BWULF 5 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 7 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 9 
BWULF 10 

KHULT [DEVIANT] 
(added race tag) 
**BWULF 9-FB 
TS 7 
**A 371 
**BWULF 1 
**BWULF 2 
**BWULF 8 
**BWULF 9 
**BWULF 10 

**MADDOX, DR. CAITLIN 
BWULF 1 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 3-FB 
BWULF 3 
BWULF 4 
BWULF 5 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 7-FB 
BWULF 7 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 9 
BWULF 10 

**LADY TRIDENT [DEVIANT] 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 4 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 10 

**BROADHURST, DR. OLIVER 
2001 8 
2001 9 
MM 1 
MM 10 
MM 14 
BWULF 2-BTS 
BWULF 3/2 
BWULF 5 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 7-FB 

**SCORCH II/MAJOR ROSS JONAS 
(current "Scorch II" should be moved up by an "I") 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 3 
BWULF 4 

**SKRULL-PRIME 
BWULF 2-FB 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 3 
BWULF 4 
BWULF 5 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 7-FB 
BWULF 7 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 10 

**SKRULL PILOT 
BWULF 2-FB 
BWULF 2 
BWULF 4 
BWULF 6 
BWULF 8 
BWULF 10 


SENTRY 459 
**WI? 28/3 
T 147/2 
... 
CA 354 
**A@ 19/3-FB 
**BWULF 3/2 
**BWULF 4/2 
**BWULF 5 
**BWULF 6 
**BWULF 7-FB 
**BWULF 7 
**BWULF 8 
**BWULF 10 


GODSTALKER 
**BWULF 6 
**BWULF 7 
**BWULF 8 
**BWULF 9 
**BWULF 10-BTS 
CM4 4 
CM4 5 


ULTRON 
... 
AWC 91 
**BWULF 3/2 
**BWULF 4/2 
**BWULF 5 
V 1 
... 

ROSSI, COL. MICHAEL "MICKEY" 
... 
UX 182 
**BWULF 3/2 
**BWULF 4/2 
**BWULF 5 


GIANT-MAN/HANK PYM 
... 
A 382/3 
**BWULF 5 
**BWULF 6 
V 1 
... 

ARISHEM [CELESTIAL] 
... 
Q 25 
**BWULF 6-BTS 
HR:R 4 


**NIRVANA [DEVIANT] 
BWULF 9-FB 
{BWULF 8} 
BWULF 9 
BWULF 10 


MUGGINS, MAMIE 
... 
WOSM 38 
**BWULF 8 


SHATTERAX [KREE] 
(added race tag) 
... 
Q 35 
**BWULF 7 
**BWULF 8 
**BWULF 10 

ULTIMUS 
... 
Q 35 
**BWULF 7 
**BWULF 8 

KORATH THE PURSUER [KREE] 
... 
Q 35 
**BWULF 7 
**BWULF 8 
[Annihilation stuff]

			*	*	*

Posted: 15 Apr 2007 08:49 am    
By jephyork
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Flashback: A brief one-panel shot from Avengers 289, featuring Namorita and someone else battling the Sentry out in the Atlantic Ocean. 
<<<

Do you mean Marrina? If so, could the "someone else" be She-Hulk? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 36

Posted: 16 Mar 2007 09:44 am    Post subject: Irredeemable Ant-Man #1-6
By Somebody

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1-6 
by Robert Kirkman, Phil Hester, et al. 

NB: All recap pages contain at least one non-recap panel, so they're counted in page/panel ranges. 

Frankly, the "present day" and past-set segments are seperate stories - if it wasn't for the fact that the short bits were wrapped around the Helicarrier stuff, I'd prefer to give them a /1 and /2. As it it, I've just page-ranged them - the Helicarrier bits aren't flashbacks. 

Six Months Ago (Enemy of the State) 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1 (3-21 - i.e. 6MA only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Chris McCarthy [see comments]; Agent Mitch Carson [see comments]; Veronica King; Yellowjacket/Hank Pym; Dum-Dum Dugan; Wolverine/Logan/etc; Iron Maniac/alternate Tony Stark [BTS]; "Jamie"; "Frank"; [lots of random unnamed SHIELD agents & staff]) 

Day 1 

Late night (3-7): 

ERIC O'GRADY, CHRIS McCARTHY, MITCH CARSON and two borderline-extras ("Jamie" and "Frank") are playing poker in Mitch's room. Eric thinks Nick Fury is an urban legend, invented by the SHIELD top brass for inspiration. Eric has to pay up on the night, because he welched before. 

Meanwhile, HANK PYM's working on a suit, and he's kept going beyond the last transport home by mistake. A generic agent finds him and arranges for a room for him for the night, but "Janet's going to be furious." 

Day 2 

"After a short night of sleep-early the next morning" (8-9p2): 

Chris wakes up Eric, having got his room access code "from Mitch", since they're "due for surveillance duty in ten minutes" and he "can't be late again." They're nearly late - their unnamed superior tells Eric he's one step away from a demerit, and Chris not to let Eric bring him down. Chris just says "On time is on time" 

VICTORIA KING then enters (full name not given until #5...) and makes a point to check that her & Chris are "still on for tonight". Eric looks jealous. 

Meanwhile, in Pym's lab, he's interviewing four agents (one of whom is Mitch) for the job of Ant-Man, as a SHIELD scout. 

Lunchtime ["Later that day, in the cafeteria"] (9p3-9p9): 

Eric asks how long Chris's "had a thing for Veronica". McC claims he thought everyone did, and that she "asked [him] out yesterday". Eric admits he'd jealous, and says that his thing with "Kirsten" has been over at least two weeks - he "probably lied" once too many times, and "sold the mess guys some pictures of her." 

"That evening" (10-11): 

In Eric's room, Chris's playing his X-Box, when Eric reminds him about his date. 

He rushes to the hydroponics bay, and admits to Veronica that he was forced to tell Eric about them by her "little display at the console," but claimed it was their first date and that she asked him out when neither was true. Eric's asked Victoria out twice - had it been four times, as Chris thought, she'd have transferred. They have a talk about Evil Alternate Stark [IRON MANIAC - BTS], from MTU, Chris having seen him on the way down; and when she ends the subject after Chris describes AltStark's face as "like melted cheese", he admits he's a superhero buff, and Eric (a childhood friend) has made fun of him for it for years. 

They go off to have sex in her room to "save the evening". 

Events of WOLVERINE v3 #25 go here 

Day 3 

"The next day, back in the surveillance center" (12-17): 

Eric's bugging Chris about his date, but Chris stonewalls until Mitch turns up - he's got to pull some security agents off guard detail because of "some classified business", but he still needs the appearance of guards on the detail. Despite being totally unqualified, he browbeats them into doing it. 

Not knowing whether they're keeping someone in or out, they clonk Pym on the head when he tries to come out before realising their mistake (they don't recognise him). They drag him inside and panic before seeing the Ant-Man suit. Eric talks Chris into trying it on, but he "disappears" when trying to take the helmet off so Eric can try it. Eric legs it. 

"Elsewhere", we see the "classified business" - WOLVERINE going through the "kill everyone a thousand times" deprogramming. Mitch looks nervous as DUM-DUM DUGAN mentions that he wants everyone on full alert, and is forced to admit he's never seen Wolverine up close before. 

"Later" (18-19): 

Eric's hiding in his room and repeating "I'm totally screwed" over and over, when Mitch turns up, livid. Eric tells Mitch what happened (although he thinks it was a teleportation suit). Mitch says what it really is, and that he and the other three agents are under suspicion since they were the only ones who knew about it. He tells Eric to keep his mouth shut, and vaguely threatens him. 

"Meanwhile", Chris is lost, angry and getting blown about in the Helicarrier's ventilation system 

Day 4 

"The Next Evening" (20-21): 

Veronica asks Eric where Chris has vanished to. He claims he's on a classified mission, but that he (Eric) didn't make the cut. She's not surprised. Eric proceeds to tell her that Chris is screwing "Kirsten" behind her back. Chris, hearing this from a nearby vent, is not happy. 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2 (3-20 - i.e. 6MA only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Chris McCarthy [dies]; Agent Mitch Carson; Veronica King; Dum-Dum Dugan; Nick Fury; [Wolverine/Logan/etc BTS?]; Elektra; [lots of random unnamed SHIELD agents & staff; lots of supervillains I can't identify - see the "Spot the Villains" topic in the Marvel Universe forum: http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2907 ]) 

Day 4 (continued) 

Evening (3-5 - continue directly from IRRANT 1 (20-21)): 

CHRIS McCARTHY plots Eric's painful death, and continues trying to figure the suit out, eventually managing to get the two robot arms working. He then spots a kitchen, jumps down and finds out the suit's got jets. He lands, uses the jet to open a can of beans, and starts eating a (relatively) giant bean. 

Day 6 (SAME DAY AS HELICARRIER ATTACK FROM WOLVERINE v3 #26-27) 

"Two Days Later", Evening [just after Eric's working day finishes] (6-20): 

Chris still hasn't turned up, and VERONICA KING asks ERIC O'GRADY about him. She doesn't want him to get hurt - before she can hurt him anyway. He stalls and then asks her out, which gets her away. He then runs into MITCH CARSON, who's still not happy, believing Chris should have found them by now. He accidentally lets the Wolverine/HYDRA reprogramming thing slip in mentioning that the missing Ant-Man suit hasn't been a high priority, but there's a sudden Level One Emergency Alert - the Helicarrier's under attack, and "Essential Personnel" (Mitch) are to go to their stations, while the rest (Eric) are to return to their quarters. 

Outside, the ELEKTRA-led (Northstar's off-panel, and I don't recognise anyone else there) attack is in full swing, while, in the vents, a small explosion knocks the completely-lost Chris out of the vent. Spotting two villains attacking three SHIELD agents (one of whom, "Mills" is on his back on the floor with eyes open). Chris manages to beat them with the jets, so they run away, and then inadvertantly hits the "full-size" button just as someone who looks uncannily like Darkhawk-but-can't be punches through the wall beside him. He legs it, before running into a grey Thing-lookalike and managing to shrink. He then finds his way to Eric's quarters, where he's cowering under the table, and manages to remember the code. Eric promptly jumps out and attacks him with a shoe before realising who it is. They explain what's been happening to each other, but before they can get in a couple of villains blast through a wall. Eric gets the door open and pushes his way in. Before Chris can get in, however, he's blasted in the head. 

Eric's actually upset that his friend is dying, but Chris' last words are about what Eric had lied to Veronica about. 

Suddenly, things start going WHOOM! - the Helicarrier's crashing. Eric quickly strips the Ant-Man suit off his friend's body, puts it on and shrinks down. 

DUM-DUM DUGAN and various other agents and supervillains are climbing out, helping others or down injured. Eric figures out the jets, blasts up out of the wreckage - shocked at what's happened - and promptly sees NICK FURY ("Holy crap... you do exist!) with a pole through his chest. 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #3 (4-20 - i.e. 6MA only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Chris McCarthy [BTS as corpse]; Agent Mitch Carson; Veronica King; Nick Fury; Wolverine/Logan/etc; Jim & Nancy McCarthy; Yellowjacket/Hank Pym; Maria Hill; [lots of random unnamed SHIELD agents & staff; unnamed abusive husband and his wife; unnamed priest and mourners]) 

Day 6 (continued) 

Night (4-7): 

WOLVERINE, naked bar a sheet, sniffs the air at the tented village near the crash site, when ERIC O'GRADY runs in (carrying the Ant-Man suit in a holdall) with the injured NICK FURY. Wolverine tells him, "you did good kid", but Eric's depressed over Chris' death. 

VERONICA KING, arm in a sling and glasses cracked - apparently, she had been trapped in the rubble and had to be pulled clear. She asks if he's seen anyone, and Eric says Chris was dead. She cries and hugs him. 

Day 13 

"One Week Later"; Lancaster, Vermont; Day (8): 

Eric and Veronica arrive in Eric & Chris' childhood hometown, and meet Chris' parents, JIM and NANCY McCARTHY - Nancy is very distressed, wishing Eric had died instead of Chris. Eric's parents moved away, so they're staying with the McCarthys 

Night (9-10): 

Neither Eric nor Veronica can sleep. She goes in to see him, and he's sorry he told her Chris was cheating on her (though he doesn't admit he made it up). He puts his hand on her shoulder, and she dashes out the room. 

He then puts the Ant-Man costume on, shrinks and decides to go for a test drive. 

Night, Arkansas (11): 

HANK PYM and MARIA HILL go to visit MITCH CARSON in hospital (he got a broken leg) to ask him to use a prototype Ant-Man suit to hunt down the person who stole the real suit, who they suspect to be a SHIELD agent; as he would have been SHIELD's choice for Ant-Man. He accepts with a resigned "Yeah. Sure." 

Two Hours after pg10, back in Vermont (12-16): 

Eric's got the basics down now - he's as strong as he is at full-size, and has the jet legs figured. When he sees a guy threatening his wife, he shouts "Ant-Man to the rescue!" - but overshoots the jump. Landing on his shoulder, he gives the guy "a full-sized punch from an ant-sized man!" Instead of knocking him over, his arm gets buried in the neck up to his shoulder. Then a great spurt of blood knocks him over and down to the ground. An ambulance turns up and takes him to hospital, having been called for the "disturbance". 

Meanwhile, Eric turns a tap on himself, but after squelching back to the McCarthy house, finds himself dry as the water doesn't grow with him. Looking depressedly at the helmet, he goes to see Veronica, upset, and she starts crying on his shoulder, while he stares straight ahead. 

Day 15 

"Two Days Later" Day (11): 

The Funeral. Eric and Veronica nearly hold hands. 

Day 16 

"The Next Day", Day (18): 

In the pouring rain, Eric finds Veronica at the grave. With SHIELD saying they could be "on leave for over a month before a new carrier is up and running", she's going to see her parents, since there's "nothing to keep [her] there." He babbled for a minute, and they start smooching. They very nearly have sex, until she, her top off, sees where they are, and pushes him off her. Saying "there's no way I'm doing this", she half-walks, half-runs off. 

Eric sits there a minute, then looks at the gravestone and asks "what are YOU looking at?" 

Three Months Ago (c. M-Day) 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #4 (4-19 - i.e. 3MA only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Agent Mitch Carson; Veronica King; Dum-Dum Dugan; Yellowjacket/Hank Pym; [lots of random unnamed SHIELD agents & staff]) 

Day 1 

Day (4-5): 

DUM-DUM DUGAN escorts a group of agents to the rebuilt Helicarrier, including ERIC O'GRADY. 

"Like two hours" later (6-7): 

MITCH CARSON runs up to Eric in the corridor. Taking him out of sight, he demands to know where the Ant-Man suit is, but he denies all knowledge of it - claiming that he thought they just hasn't mentioned the secret armour in the report. Mitch then asks him if he can lie to someone's face without them knowing, and Eric lies to his face. 

Afterward, while Eric's trying and failing to get into his room, VERONICA KING meets him. She's been quartered "like six doors down". He "want[s] to apologise for that night-in the rain...", and she says it's okay, he helped her through stuff, and he reciprocates by saying they were helping each other. They part on good terms. 

Shortly afterward, Eric finds that he can't get in because he was tying the wrong room. 

"After a few hours of settling in" (8-12): 

Eric, as Ant-Man, heads to the women's showers for "some spying". One of the women, "a highly decorated sniper with seventeen long distance hits on [her] record" spots him, but not exactly what. Panicking, he reaches a vent, but, panicking, only barely gets to the sealed opening after using both his human and robot arms on it. He then finds himself surrounded by ants. 

After panicking, he finds the ants listen to him - although there's a limit to what he can get them to do. He swiftly sets up an ant-race. 

Day 2 

"The Next Day", Day (13-14): 

Veronica meets Eric at his station. They're both uncomfortable with Chris' empty station, and she says everyone's still shell-shocked and knew at least a few people who died in the attack/crash. With everyone so depressed, she thinks they didn't get enough time off, and Eric agrees, but says the world won't save itself - "not that [they]'re in any way involved in THAT part of SHIELD"] [*see comments] 

Anyway, with all her friends either dead or still hospitalised, Veronica actually asks Eric out. She immediately plays it down, but doesn't retract it and he says "yes", letting out a "heh" once she's on her way. 

Meanwhile, HANK PYM's suiting Mitch up in the prototype Ant-Man suit (which bears far more of a resemblance to the "classic" Pym version than it does to O'Grady's suit), and sends him off on a "dry run" to get used to everything. 

"Later that night" (15): 

Veronica actually had a good time with Eric - although she mentions that she'd spoken to "Kirsten" earlier in the day, and she acted like she had no clue what was up with Chris and her, but Eric brushes it off. 

Veronica then says that she doesn't think he's so bad at all, and they smooch. 

Sex-time later (16): 

Eric smirks and looks at the sleeping Veronica. When he's sure she's asleep, he grabs the Ant-suit. 

"A few minutes later" (17-19): 

Carrying a bag of food, he goes back to the ant-nest, promising "prizes" for "the winner of tonight's races." 

Just then, Mitch, suited up, finds him and says he's "taking you down. RIGHT. NOW." 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #5 (4-21 - i.e. 3MA only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Agent Mitch Carson; Veronica King; Yellowjacket/Hank Pym (also in recording); "Jamie"; "Frank"; [lots of random unnamed SHIELD agents & staff]) 

[NB: This is the issue that the recap page & a caption finally give us Victoria's surname...] 

Day 2 (continued) 

Night (4-13 - continue directly from IRRANT 4 (17-19)): 

MITCH CARSON and ERIC O'GRADY, both Ant-sized and suited up, square off. [Eric knows it's Mitch, but not vice-versa]. Mitch orders Eric to surrender, Eric refuses. 

They fight. Mitch by far has the upper-hand and nearly wins, but then Eric gets the ants to trample him and gets away. 

Getting back to his room, and hoping agains panic that Mitch doesn't know it was him, he finds Veronica gone - and the whole suit except the helmet vanishes when he returns to full-size. Looking at the underside of the helmet, he finds three buttons. The left hand one releases a burst of gas, which he presumes is how he shrinks, and the middle one activates a message to voice-start a training program. The helmet tells him to put it on to begin, and a recording of Hank Pym goes into detail about the modes - specifically, the fact that the suit can either peel itself off when going full-size or stay on the body. Someone knocks, interrupting him. 

VERONICA KING is at the door. When he blatantly lies to her about whey he'd disappeared, then refuses to go for a walk with her, she walks off, calling him a jerk and herself an idiot for doing it with him. 

Meanwhile, Mitch - his suit trashed by the ants - reappears in HANK PYM's lab. Pym's impressed by Eric's trick with the ants, and promises he'll have the prototype fixed in a few days. 

M-Day goes here 

Day 16 ("Two weeks have passed since [Eric's] confrontation with Mitch Carson in the ventilation shaft.") 

Evening (14-16): 

Eric's shift is ending after seven straight hours, and he sits, staring at a screen, clearly bored out of his mind. Evntually, a "BEEP. BEEP." signals he can go. 

Veronica meets up with him, and after he blows her off with a "when I think about you now it's like... I don't know... been there, done that... y'know," she slaps him hard across the face and storms off. He wonders what the hell that was for - he "was just being honest. That woman's crazy" 

Arriving at his room, he finds Mitch inside, who bullies him into being there at "tonight's poker game", telling him to be at his [Mitch's] place at 2100hrs, on time. 

"After 2100 hours", Veronica's room (17): 

Veronica lies crying on her bed, periodically exclaiming "#*&%ING JERK!" An "Easy Pregnancy Test" is on her beside table... 

"At that very moment", Mitch's room (18-21): 

Mitch, Eric, "Jamie" and "Frank" talk about M-Day for a bit, then get into throwing cash at the table. Eric then makes the mistake of boasting that he's the best in the world at lying. Mitch flips out, realising that Eric DOES have the Ant-Man suit and swears to kill him. 


IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #6 (4-17 - i.e. early portion only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Agent Mitch Carson; Veronica King; Director Maria Hill, Dum-Dum Dugan, "Jamie"; "Frank"; [lots of random unnamed SHIELD agents & staff]) 

Night (4 - continues directly from IRRANT 5 (18-21)): 

MITCH CARSON sends "Jamie" and "Frank" out, and refuses to believe ERIC O'GRADY's protestions of innocence. Eric then suggests Mitch search his room and see that he's wrong. Mitch orders him to "get up" 

"Minutes later" (5-14): 

Mitch "escorts" Eric along the corridor. VERONICA KING tries to speak to Eric about something "REALLY important", but Mitch isn't having any distractions, although he promises to send Eric down as soon as they're done. Recognising her as "Chris' Veronica", he tells Eric he's going to hell. 

When they reach the room, Eric gets the code at the second attempt, then shoves Mitch out the way and locks the door. By the time Mitch overrides the lock, Eric's vanished. 

Eric's suited up in the ventilation shaft, but gets a rude shock when Mitch, suited and shrunken in the prototype suit, catches up with him and knocks them into the cafeteria. They fight (at ant-size) across the room - and Dum-Dum Dugan's hat! - until the fight ultimately ends when Eric tries to jet away and instead completely fries the left half of Mitch's face. Eric, actually upset, then grows to full-size and asks for directions to the nearest Infirmary. Dugan tells him, then realises what the suit was & what had happened five seconds later and tells the grunts to "fall in!" and "stop him!" 

By the time they reach the Infirmary, however, Eric had not only reached the Infirmary himself, but dropped Mitch off, told them to call Hank Pym, shrunk and skedaddled. 

"A few minutes later" (15-16): 

Eric has grabbed some clothes, a bag & deodorant out his room and is queueing for the nearest Helicarrier-surface transport, when Dugan catches him and holds a gun to his back. He kicks Dugan in the crotch, throws his bag over the side and jumps overboard to Freedom! 

"Two Days later" (17): 

Mitch is barely up & about, but determined to go after Eric O'Grady. Director Maria Hill, against her better judgement, lets him since they've got no time to train anyone else in the use of the Pym-particle scanner, and "Congress is about to announce the Superhuman Registration Act", so she can't spare anyone. 

Civil War 

CIVIL WAR: CHOOSING SIDES #1/2 
(Not a full analysis, but it needs to be noted for placement reasons) 

Ant-Man/Eric fights with a bird over a piece of popcorn, helps a good-looking blonde escape a Civil War fight (which includes Iron Spider, Thing and Cloak & Dagger). 

After the fight is over, she mentions the "little hero" to the pro-reg forces, and Yellowjacket recognises the description as the stolen Ant-Man suit. He calls it into SHIELD, and Mitch Carson, flying around in his car, gets the note. Meanwhile, Ant-Man's going to "protect" a women's gym... 

Now (Post-Civil War) 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #6 (18-19) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Beth Howard; [random unnamed mugger]) 

[See comments on the timing of this scene] 

Overlaps with IRRANT #1 (1-2), but we get it from Eric's perspective on p18, which starts a mite earlier, so there's new info. p19 is a straight reprint of IRRANT #1 (2). 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1 (1-2, 22 - i.e., present only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Beth Howard; [random unnamed mugger]) 

Morning (1-2): Ant-Man saves a woman (BETH HOWARD, though we don't get her name yet) from a mugger, then finagles her into going to dinner. 

Evening (22): Eric O'Grady, out of costume, turns up at the arranged place, announcing himself to Beth as Ant-Ma and asking if she can keep a secret. 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2 (1-2, 21-22 - i.e., present only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Beth Howard; Agent Mitch Carson; [random unnamed SHIELD agents, taxi-driver and waiter]) 

A short while after IRRANT 1 pg22 (1-2): Eric maneovers "Beth" into paying a bill she clearly can't afford for the dinner that's coming. She asks how he became Ant-Man, and he proceeds to tell her... 

A meal and a long discussion later (21): ...a pack of lies involving Doctor Doom. She says she had a really good time and inites him up for tea. 

"Not 12 hours" after IRRANT 1 pg1-2 (22), around the same time as pg21 (22): Mitch is tracking Eric down with a couple of generic SHIELD agents. When genericAgent suggests they may never find him, we see that the left side of Mitch's face is a mess, completely made of scar tissue, and he swears that "for what he did to me, I'll find Eric O'Grady and I'll kill him myself." 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #3 (1-3, 21-22 - i.e., present only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Beth Howard; Agent Mitch Carson; [random unnamed SHIELD agents and taxi-driver]) 

"Almost an hour" after IRRANT 2 pg21 (1-3): Beth outright states she's not going to have sex with Eric, to get him to leave. He takes note of the apt. numer, takes a taxi to a locker and back, changes into Ant-Man in the life and sneaks back in under the door. 

Shortly after pg3 (21-22): Eric is spying on Beth in the shower, when Mitch and co. knock at the door and Eric recognises the voice... 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #4 (1-3, 20-22 - i.e., present only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Beth Howard; Agent Mitch Carson; Maria Hill (BTS); [random unnamed SHIELD agents]) 

Continues directly from IRRANT 3 pg 22 (1-3): Beth storms out, a towel wrapped round her, before they break the door down. They ask her about Eric, then proceed to move her out of the way and proceed to scan the apt. and install sensors "discreetly" in case Eric comes back. 

Meanwhile, Eric is hiding under the couch, unhappy. 

The time taken to scan an apartment later (21-22): 
Just after Mitch finishes a radio call to Maria Hill, and is about to go out and look, they find a trace of Eric, and Eric grows out from under the couch begging Mitch to let him be and saying to "end this - right here - right now!" 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #5 (1-3, 22 - i.e., present only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Beth Howard; Agent Mitch Carson; [random unnamed SHIELD agents]) 

Continues directly from IRRANT 4 pg 22 (1-3): Eric quickly changes his mind and, with the agents distracted, jumps out of the window "down, down and to a safe hiding place!" 

Beth, shocked, looks on. The SHIELDies promise to sort the window, and Mitch jumps out of it into a flying car after Eric. 

A not-particularly long time later (22): Mitch's device reads "signal lost". Meanwhile, Eric's hiding in the wheel-arch of the car. 

IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #6 (1-3, 20-22 - i.e., present only) 
(Characters: Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady; Agent Mitch Carson; Ms Marvel/Carol Danvers) 
Continues directly from IRRANT 5 pg 22 (1-3): Eric, after hearing Mitch confess he's lost him to Maria Hill on the radio, shows up. Mitch is bitter because he's getting pensioned off because of his injury - with no sight or hearing on his left hand side, the "only job [he's] good for" is tracking Eric down. 

Continues directly (20-21p5): Eric manages to break Mitch's Pym Particle tracker and escapes. 

"Minutes later, at ground level" (21p6-22): Eric scopes out the women on the street for one to ride home with. Rejecting the ugly, the baby-pushing and the married, he settles on a blonde and jumps in her bag. The bag includes a registration card showing the owner to be one "Ms. Marvel, a.k.a. Warbird, a.k.a. Binary" possessing "Flight, Enhanced Strength, Damage Resistance, Energy Absorption and Rechannelling." Eric goes "Oh... Well... Uh... That's interesting..." 

Caption says "CONTINUED..." (and indeed, the next issue solicit promises Danvers will be appearing, and an interview says the next issue will be tracking alongside Mighty Avengers #1, with Eric tagging along for the ride - along with the next issue cover being the Mighty Avengers #1 cover with a magnifying glass showing Eric is on Danvers' finger). 

Comments 


On Chris and Mitch as Ant-Men - neither call themselves Ant-Man or are called Ant-Man by any other character, only the armours they're wearing are referred to as "Ant-Man armour" - with one exception, a narration box in #1 which refers to Chris as "our unlucky, accidental Ant-Man". Mitch is also clearly a regular not-as-an-Ant-Man, and will never wear an Ant-Man suit again in the present-day segments. 

There's a little inconsistency between issues 3 and 4, just to make Paul B's life even more fun . Over and above the fact that the 6MA/3MA captions show that Kirkman runs on the trad 4 real = 1 Marvel timeline . Veronica says they've were only off a month, despite the timeline on the backstory jumping somewhere between two and two and a half months forward between the Helicarrier crash and the new Helicarrier becoming operational. And it's fairly crucial, since it's linked to most of the staff's depression. And you can't stretch the timeline the OTHER way because of stuff coming up, so there's no way that "month" can become a "year" ] 

The time captions go off the rails during issue #6, where the "early" time period is apparently suddenly "One Week Ago", when the earlier captioning and comments saying it's between One And A Half and Two Months Ago. Between the fact that Civil War must go between the early and current segments, and Veronica's comments in #4, I'm completely ignoring those two captions. This also requires ignoring a "Meanwhile" caption on page 18, but there's no place to put CW:CHOOSINGSIDES #1/2 otherwise, since we have a post-CW Carol Danvers at the end of IRRANT #6 per interview comments, since her appearance is meant to be a Mighty Avengers #1 tie-in; and nearly every recap page of this book, #6 includes, calls the "present day" post-CW.


Character listings 

ANT-MAN/ERIC O'GRADY 
IRRANT 1 (3-21) 
IRRANT 2 (3-20) 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 
IRRANT 4 (4-19) 
IRRANT 5 (4-21) 
IRRANT 6 (4-17) 
CW:CHOOSINGSIDES 1/2 
IRRANT 6 (18) 
IRRANT 1 (1-2, 22) (pg2 is ~ with IRRANT 6, pg19) 
IRRANT 2 (1-2, 21-22) 
IRRANT 3 (1-3, 21-22) 
IRRANT 4 (1-3, 20-22) 
IRRANT 5 (1-3, 22) 
IRRANT 6 (1-3, 20-22) 

McCARTHY, CHRIS (may be ANT-MAN/CHRIS McCARTHY - see comments) 
IRRANT 1 (3-21) 
IRRANT 2 (3-20) 
IRRANT 3-BTS (4-20) [corpse] 

CARSON, AGENT MITCH (may be ANT-MAN/MITCH CARSON - see comments) 
IRRANT 1 (3-21) 
IRRANT 2 (3-20) 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 
IRRANT 4 (4-19) 
IRRANT 5 (4-21) 
IRRANT 6 (4-17) 
CW:CHOOSINGSIDES 1/2 
IRRANT 2 (1-2, 21-22) 
IRRANT 3 (1-3, 21-22) 
IRRANT 4 (1-3, 20-22) 
IRRANT 5 (1-3, 22) 
IRRANT 6 (1-3, 20-22) 

KING, VERONICA 
IRRANT 1 (3-21) 
IRRANT 2 (3-20) 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 
IRRANT 4 (4-19) 
IRRANT 5 (4-21) 
IRRANT 6 (4-17) 

IRON MANIAC/TONY STARK [alternate Earth] 
[...] 
IRRANT 1-BTS (3-21) (needed?) 
[...] 

WOLVERINE/"LOGAN"/JAMES HOWLETT 
[...] 
W3 25 
IRRANT 1 (3-21) 
W3 26 
W3 27 (1-16) 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 
W3 27 (19-23) 
[...] 

DUGAN, TIMOTHY ALOYISIOUS CADWALLADER "DUM DUM" 
[...] 
IRRANT 1 (3-21) 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 
W3 30 
[...] 
IRRANT 4 (4-19) 
[suggest Wolverine:Origins appearances go here] 
IRRANT 6 (4-17) 
[Agents of Atlas, followed by various CW related stuff - i.e., NewAv & Cap] 

FURY, COL. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH 
[...] 
W3 26 
W3 27 
IRRANT 2 (3-20) 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 
W3 30 
[...] 

ELEKTRA/ELEKTRA NATCHIOS 
[...] 
W3 26 
IRRANT 2 (3-20) 
W3 27 
[...] 


YELLOWJACKET/HANK PYM 
[...] 
IRRANT 5[-FB? (video recording)] 
IRRANT 1 (3-21) 
[...?] 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 
[...?] 
IRRANT 4 (4-19) 
IRRANT 5 (4-21) 
[...] 
CW:CHOOSINGSIDES 1/2 
[...] 

McCARTHY, JIM 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 

McCARTHY, NANCY 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 

HOWARD, BETH 
IRRANT 6 (18) 
IRRANT 1 (1-2, 22) (pg2 is ~ with IRRANT 6, pg19) 
IRRANT 2 (1-2, 21-22) 
IRRANT 3 (1-3, 21-22) 
IRRANT 4 (1-3, 20-22) 
IRRANT 5 (1-3, 22) 

HILL, MARIA 
[...? Predates OYL Secret War segments, so this might be her first chronological appearance] 
IRRANT 3 (4-20) 
[... - this gap includes OYL Secret War, pre-CW New Avengers appearances, etc] 
IRRANT 6 (4-17) 
[... - this gap includes Civil War] 
IRRANT 4-BTS (1-3, 20-22) 
[...] 
IRRANT 6 (1-3, 20-22) 


JAMIE (just in case he reappears with a surname) 
IRRANT 1 (3-21) 
IRRANT 5 (4-21) 
IRRANT 6 (4-17) 

FRANK (just in case he reappears with a surname) 
IRRANT 1 (3-21) 
IRRANT 5 (4-21) 
IRRANT 6 (4-17) 

MS. MARVEL/CAROL SUSAN JANE DANVERS 
[...] 
CW:CHOOSINGSIDES 1/2 
[...] 
IRRANT 6 (1-3, 20-22) 
[provisionally, based on interviews, next is IRRANT7, which tracks directly alongside MIGHTYAVENGERS1]

Last edited by Somebody on 18 Mar 2007 10:46 am; edited 2 times in total

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Posted: 16 Mar 2007 10:43 am    
By jephyork
Director

Thanks, great analysis! 

By the way, when you're describing issue #2, and you say "Northstar's off-panel" -- what do you mean? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Mar 2007 11:00 am    
By Somebody

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
Thanks, great analysis! 
<<<

Ta 


jephyork wrote: 
>>>
By the way, when you're describing issue #2, and you say "Northstar's off-panel" -- what do you mean? 
<<<

It's an alternate view of the big supervillain attack from the end of W26, and it's pretty much from Northstar's POV (not explicitly, but around that sort of area), so he's just off-"camera". 

This panel: http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s160/antmanvillains/LaughingBoysAndGirls.jpg

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Mar 2007 11:19 am    
By jephyork
Director

Oh, I see. He didn't take any new, offscreen actions that affected the story -- he's just "probably right there". 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 16 Mar 2007 11:51 am    
By Somebody

Yeah, that's why I included the note to start with, to say "we don't see Northstar" - notice I never included Northstar, BTS or otherwise, in the character listings 

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Mar 2007 08:12 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks, Somebody, for this detailed analysis.  

You're right...the time captions are screwy and they force us to ignore some of them. I actually agree that three months separate the Helicarrier crash and M-Day. As to whether those events happen "six months" and "three months" before the current post-CW story...well that's another matter. I think more time separates M-Day and the present. 

In any case, I'm working on incorporating your notes into the calendar. First off, I wonder if you might supply a page/panel chronological breakdown of how issue #2 weaves in and out of W3 27. That'd be great.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 18 Mar 2007 11:19 am    
By Somebody

There's not much to say. The only overlap between the two issues is that one-panel shot of Elektra - we don't see any of the other characters from W27 in place, and the events after the Helicarrier crash occur in a timespan the Wolverine issues cut past completely (Fury-on-a-pole is referenced by Wolverine in the first scene after the Helicarrier crash itself.) 

It basically goes: 

W3 26 (22-23) [Big Splash page] 
W3 26 (24) [Fury gets worried] 
IRRANT2 (8p1) [first zaps starting] 
W3 27 (1-2) [all villains zapping] 
W3 27 (3-13&14p1) ~ IRRANT2 (8p2-15p7) [attack going on, absolutely no overlap of anything except time] 
W3 27 (13&14p2-15&16) ~ IRRANT (15p8-18&19p1) [Helicarrier starts buckling and goes down, a very few moments of aftermath] 
IRRANT 2 (19p2-20) [longer aftermath, Eric finds Fury impaled on a spike] 
IRRANT 3 (4-7) [Camp has been set up, Eric rushes in with Fury saying he'd found him with pole through his ribs and he took him off it, Wolverine thanks him] 
W3 27 (19-end) [Later, Wolverine thinks about "Nick with that pole through his ribs", (17-18) are a cutaway to Gorgon and Elspeth] 

And that's about as detailed as it gets.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Mar 2007 01:54 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I think I'll split different points about Irredeemable Ant-Man (for which I suggest a shorter IAM code) into separate posts. 

First, Somebody, thanks for the breakdown of IAM 2 vis-a-vis W3 27. To make sure I have things right, here's a chronology involving the time of W3 25-27. As you can see the three-month space between the Helicarrier crash and M-Day suggested by the "six months ago" and "three months ago" references in IAM are supported by a "three month" space noted in NX 36-FB. However, I have more to say about that in another post. 

How does the following chronology look? 

Friday 
WOLVERINE v3 #25 (1-8) 
The day after W3 24. Cap, Iron Man, and SHIELD are in Washington, protecting the president from Logans attack. But Logan has snuck into the Xavier Institute and, equipped with Reed Richards terraformer, tries to force Rachel to use Cerebra to kill the president remotely. Green trees in Washington DC. 
IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1  FB (3-7) 
One night. It may be more than six months before IAM 1. Eric OGrady, Chris McCarthy, Mitch Carson, Jamie, and Frank play poker in Mitchs room. Eric thinks Nick Fury is an urban legend, invented by the SHIELD top brass for inspiration. Meanwhile, Hank Pym works on a suit and misses the last transport home. An agent finds him and arranges for a room for him for the night, but Janet's going to be furious. 

Saturday 
WOLVERINE v3 #25 (9-11) 
Early the morning after W3 25 (1-8). It is seventy-two hours before W3 26. Rachel uses Cerebra to tap into Reed Richards mind and gain the knowledge she needs to disarm the terraformer telepathically. Thwarted, Logan attempts to teleport but can only do so in short hops through the Institutes property; he heads to the hangar. 
NEW X-MEN: ACADEMY X #13 (1) 
The same early morning as W3 25 (9-11). The segment occurs shortly after NX 12 and the week before NX 13 (17-22). With Logan possessed and at large, the New Mutants remain vigilant at the Institute. They hear a rumbling. Green trees at Westchester. 
WOLVERINE v3 #25 (12-13/14p1) 
The same early morning as NX 13 (1). Logan hijacks the X-Mens jet from its hangar and smashes out. 
NEW X-MEN: ACADEMY X #13 (2-3) 
The same early morning as W3 25 (12-13/14). The New Mutants take cover as the jet smashes out. Green trees at Westchester. 
WOLVERINE v3 #25 (13/14p2-13/14p3) 
The same early morning as NX 13 (2-3). The jet smashes through the woods as the X-Men dash out of the Institute. Green trees at Westchester. 
NEW X-MEN: ACADEMY X #13 (4-5p2) 
The same early morning as W3 25 (13/14p2-13/14p3). Northstar takes off for the woods with his older students as Captain America arrives on the scene. The New Mutants argue as Jay and Josh try to join in pursuit of Logan. Green trees at Westchester. 
WOLVERINE v3 #25 (13/14p4-20) 
The same early morning as NX 13 (4-5). This segment occurs before IAM 1-FB (12-19). It may be two weeks, not two months, before W3 30. This segment must occur before A4 1 (1-8). Falcon has no facial hair here. In the woods by the Institute, Logan is attacked by X-Men, including a sighted Gambit. Logan is defeated and taken into SHIELD custody, but only after he lacerates Havok and Beast and kills Northstar. Green grass and trees at Westchester. 
NEW X-MEN: ACADEMY X #13 (5p3-6) 
The same early morning as W3 25 (13/14-20). The New Mutants witness the fallen Northstar and Joshs attempt to heal him comes too late. Green grass and trees at Westchester. 
WOLVERINE v3 #25 (21) 
The same day as NX 13 (5-6). With Wolverine captured, Strucker gives up Hydra to Elsbeth. 
IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1  FB (8-11) 
The day after IAM 1-FB (3-7). Chris wakes up Eric and they report for duty. Their superior tells Eric hes one step away from a demerit and Chris not to let Eric bring him down. Veronica King enters and checks that she and Chris are still on for tonight. Meanwhile, in his lab, Pym interviews four agents, one of whom is Mitch, for the job of Ant-Man, as a SHIELD scout. At lunch, Eric asks how long Chris has had a thing for Veronica. Chris claims that she asked him out yesterday. Eric admits hes jealous, and says that his thing with Kirsten has been over at least two weeks. That evening, in Erics room, Chris plays his X-Box and Eric reminds him about his date. He rushes to the hydroponics bay and admits to Veronica that he was forced to tell Eric about them by her little display at the console, but claimed it was their first date and that she asked him out when neither was true. They have a talk about the evil alternate Stark, Chris having seen him on the way down, and when she ends the subject after Chris describes the evil Starks face as like melted cheese, he admits he's a super-hero buff. They go off to have sex in her room to save the evening. 

Sunday 
NEW X-MEN: ACADEMY X #13 (7) 
The morning after W3 25 (21). Scott and Emma call a student assembly, where they announce Northstars death and the suspension of classes this week until after his memorial is held. They vow to finish the semester and have finals, the year-end dance and prizegiving. 
[BTS] 
One day, three days before W3 27. SHIELD begins to de-program Logan. 
IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1  FB (12-19) 
The day after IAM 1-FB (8-11). This flashback occurs after W3 25 (13/14-20). In the surveillance center, Eric bugs Chris about his date, but Chris stonewalls until Mitch turns up; he has to pull some security agents off guard detail because of some classified business, but he still needs the appearance of guards on the detail. Despite being totally unqualified, he browbeats them into doing it. Not knowing whether theyre keeping someone in or out, they clonk Pym on the head when he tries to come out before realizing their mistake. They drag him inside and panic before seeing the Ant-Man suit. Eric talks Chris into trying it on, but he disappears (shrinks) when trying to take the helmet off so Eric can try it. Eric runs. Elsewhere, Logan undergoes de-programming. Mitch looks nervous as Dum Dum Dugan mentions that he wants everyone on full alert, and is forced to admit hes never seen Wolverine up close before. Later, Eric hides in his room, repeating I'm totally screwed over and over, when Mitch turns up, livid. Eric tells Mitch what happened, although he thinks it was a teleportation suit. Mitch says what it really is, and that he and the other three agents are under suspicion since they were the only ones who knew about it. He tells Eric to keep his mouth shut and vaguely threatens him. Meanwhile, Chris gets blown about in the Helicarriers ventilation system 

Monday 
NEW X-MEN v2 #36  FB 
One day, three months before M-Day. As his followers tend to Nimrod, William Stryker reports to Facility scientist Adam Harkins that hes seen a vision of M-Day and the coming of a powerful mutant scourge afterward. He asks Harkins to create a biological weapon (Predator X) to battle the scourge. 
IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1  FB (20-21) 
The evening of the day after IAM 1-FB (12-19). Veronica asks Eric where Chris has vanished to. He claims Chris is on a classified mission for which he didnt make the cut. Shes not surprised. Eric tells her that Chris is screwing Kirsten behind her back. The shrunken Chris, hearing this from a nearby vent, is not happy. 
IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2  FB (3-5) 
The same evening as IAM 1-FB (20-21). It is two days before IAM 2-FB (6-8). Chris plots Erics painful death and continues trying to figure the suit out, eventually managing to get the two robot arms working. He then spots a kitchen, jumps down, and finds out the suit has jets. He lands, uses the jet to open a can of beans, and starts eating a giant bean. 

Tuesday 
WOLVERINE v3 #26 (8-10) 
One day, seventy-two hours (three days) after W3 25 (9-21) and eighteen months after W3 26-FB (in which we see autumn leaves in Japan). 24 super-beings have been killed and snatched by the Hand in the past 24 hours. Elsbeth and Gorgon share a touching moment and (presumably) that night, Elektra and the Hand kill Slyde and the Spot. Bare trees and snow in Germany. 

Wednesday 
NEW MUTANTS: ACADEMY X #13 (8-12) 
One day, shortly after NX 13 (7). Karma tells Alpha Squadron that shell be replacing Northstar as their advisor and comforts Victor when he takes it hard. Sofia and Julian talk about Northstar. Green grass and trees at Westchester. 
WOLVERINE v3 #26 (11-12p3) 
The same day (meanwhile) as NX 13 (8-12). It is presumably the day after W3 26 (8-10). Portions of this scene are repeated in NX 13 (13). Northstar isnt due to be cremated for another two days  the delay is due to difficulties in contacting his family. Iceman, Dani, and Polaris say goodbye to Northstar in the morgue at New York University Medical Center. 
NEW X-MEN: ACADEMY X #13 (13p4) 
The same day as W3 26 (11-12). Bobby sheds a tear in a panel with added dialog to W3 26 (12p3). 
WOLVERINE v3 #26 (12p4) 
The same day as NX 13 (13p4). A blinding flash appears in the morgue. 
NEW X-MEN: ACADEMY X #13 (13p5) 
The same day as W3 26 (12p4). Elektra and Hand assassins materialize in the morgue. 
WOLVERINE v3 #26 (12p5-23) 
The same day as NX 13 (13p5). 41 super-beings have been killed and snatched by the Hand this week and sixty to seventy super-villains total. Elektra and the Hand steal Northstars body from the morgue and Iceman, Moonstar, and Polaris fail to stop them. As SHIELD works on de-programming Logan (who may be active inside twelve to eighteen hours), the SHIELD helicarrier is attacked by a horde of super-beings re-programmed by the Hand. 
IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2  FB (6-8p1) 
The same evening as W3 26 (12-23). It is two days after IAM 2-FB (3-5). Chris still hasnt turned up, and Veronica asks Eric about him. He stalls and then asks her out, which gets her away. He then runs into Mitch, whos still not happy, believing Chris should have found them by now. He accidentally mentions the Wolverine/HYDRA reprogramming in noting that the missing Ant-Man suit has't been a high priority. Suddenly, a Level One Emergency Alert sounds; the Helicarriers under attack and essential personnel (including Mitch) are to go to their stations while the rest (including Eric) are to return to their quarters. 
WOLVERINE v3 #27 (1-13/14p1) 
The same day as IAM 2-FB (6-8). Wolverine is released from his three days (according to W3 30) of de-programming and joins SHIELD in battling the horde of super-beings, including Northstar and Elektra. 
IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2  FB (8p2-15p7) 
The same day as W3 27 (1-13/14). The Elektra-led attack is in full swing and a small explosion knocks the lost Chris out of the vent. He spots two villains attacking three SHIELD agents and manages to beat them with the jets. He then inadvertently hits the full-size button just as someone punches through the wall beside him. He runs, encounters a grey Thing lookalike and shrinks. He then finds his way to Erics quarters, where Eric cowers under the table. Remembering the code, Eric jumps out and attacks Chris with a shoe before realizing who it is. They explain whats been happening to each other, then a couple of villains blast through a wall. Eric gets the door open and pushes his way in. Before Chris can get in, however, hes blasted in the head. Eric is upset that his friend is dying, but Chris last words are about what Eric had lied to Veronica about. 
WOLVERINE v3 #27 (13/14p2-16) 
The same day as IAM 2-FB (8-15). The melee forces the Helicarrier to crash to the ground in Arkansas, where we see green trees. 
IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2  FB (15p8-20) 
The same day as W3 27 (13/14-16). As the Helicarrier crashes, Eric quickly strips the Ant-Man suit off his friend's body, puts it on, and shrinks down. Dum Dum Dugan and various other agents and super-villains climb out of the wreckage. Shocked, Eric figures out the jets, blasts up out of the wreckage, and promptly sees Nick Fury with a pole through his chest. 
IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #3  FB (4-7) 
The same evening as IAM 2-FB (15-20). It is one week before IAM 3-FB (8-16). Logan, naked but for a sheet, sniffs the air at the tented village near the crash site, when Eric runs in, carrying the Ant-Man suit in a holdall, with the injured Fury. Wolverine tells him he did good, but Erics depressed over Chris death. Vernonica, arm in a sling and glasses cracked, asks if hes seen anyone, and Eric says Chris is dead. She cries and hugs him. 
WOLVERINE v3 #27 (17-23) 
The same day as IAM 3-FB (4-7). It is discovered that more than 200 SHIELD agents were killed in the crash. Logan calls Ichiro and Fukuko, who want Logan to wreak vengeance on the Hand for their sons death. Gorgon tells Elspeth that they can unleash their arsenal upon the world in three more weeks...two and a half if we can smuggle those materials out of Wakanda. 
NEW X-MEN: ACADEMY X #13 (14-16) 
The same evening as W3 27. It is two days before NX 13 (17-22). Dani returns to the Institute to report that Northstars body and that he could be a resurrected assassin now, but Scott and Emma decide to keep that secret and go on with the memorial.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 18 Mar 2007 02:47 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

From Somebody's analysis, I see the following sequence: 

IAM 4-FB (13-19) -- Eric and Veronica have sex one time only 

IAM 5-FB (4-13) -- same night 

[M-Day] 

IAM 5-FB (14-21) -- "two weeks" after IAM 5-FB (4-13); this time span must be preserved because it's here that Veronica discovers she's pregnant; there's talk about M-Day (presumably like it just happened??) 

IAM 6-FB (4-16) -- same night 

IAM 6-FB (17) -- "two days" after IAM 6-FB (4-16); in this segment, Congress is about to announce the Superhuman Registration Act, so that places this at a precise time very early during the Civil War, mere days after the Stamford incident, and just before the newspaper headline, Registration Act Passed by Congress, in CW 2 (3p1) 

Now, there's just no way a matter of days passes between M-Day and the start of the Civil War. Unless the discussion about M-Day explicitly states that it just happened, I'm inclined to place the last three segments above at the start of the Civil War, and the first two segments above a couple of weeks before Stamford. That puts all the segments above months after M-Day. M-Day ends up occurring during a large gap between the flashbacks in IAM 3 and 4, and that gap is quite a bit longer than the three months that passed between the Helicarrier crash and M-Day. 

This opens up the possibility that the flashbacks in IAM 4-6 indeed occurred "three months" before the post-CW events of IAM 1-6. This assumes that the Civil War actually took a few months to occur, but there is evidence for this: 

In CW 7, Stark notes that the Fifty-State Initiative has been going on for the last few months. 

In Civil War: Fallen Son Daily Bugle Special, Stark is interviewed in the wake of ap's death and notes despite our differences over the last few months. 

So, I have the following calendar sequence: 

The flashbacks in IAM 1-3 during the Wolverine Agent of SHIELD storyline 

M-day three months later 

A few more months after that, the helicarrier is rebuilt, SHIELD folks are still depressed over the crash, and Eric and Veronica have sex 
(Note: other helicarriers are operational during that months-long gap, and other crews work on them, as seen in countless other titles including A4, ASTONX3, BP4, C&DP, DD2, FOES, HERC, M/TU3, etc., etc.) 
(Note: it took a long time to build the replacement for the crashed helicarrier, as suggested by time references in W3) 

Two weeks later, Civil War launches and Veronica discovers her pregnancy a few days into it 

Three months after that, Civil War has just ended and the current scenes in IAM occur just prior to MA 1 

And, of course, during Civil War, Eric appears in CW:CS 1. 

And Somebody's right, that "one week ago" reference in CW 6 makes no sense whatsoever.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 19 Mar 2007 06:55 pm    
By Somebody

Okay, I'll get back to you in more detail later, since it's late here and some of the logic in the second post is giving me a headache, but I feel I should say something: 

1) The IRRANT2/3 events you have on "Friday/Saturday/Sunday" should be Thursday/Friday/Saturday. The "classified business" which forces Mitch to leads Mitch to is Wolverine actually being brought on-board the Helicarrier on rereading (on further study, the two pages read awkwardly - was Wolverine ploughing through SHIELD agents at any point during W20-25? Because what threw me off is a splash page - the one Kirkman used to misleadingly tease the series in his CBR column, http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=bmb&article=2388 - of Wolverine doing just that. On the next page, looking again, it's clearly the Helicarrier roof, and the trussed-like-a-turkey Wolverine is clearly being moved. 

2) The suggestion in the second post that's making my head hurt trying to make work - you splice a gap into IRRANT4, the whole fourth issue folds like a house of cards. Mitch is outfitted for the prototype suit on page 14, having been tapped for it during the Helicarrier downtime (in #3) and telling Eric he's been assigned to hunt down the stolen ant-suit on page 6. Veronica, on page 15, references Eric's room troubles of page 7 as "yesterday". And here's page 13: http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s160/antmanvillains/AntMan4p13.jpg

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Posted: 20 Mar 2007 06:06 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
The suggestion in the second post that's making my head hurt trying to make work - you splice a gap into IRRANT4, the whole fourth issue folds like a house of cards. Mitch is outfitted for the prototype suit on page 14, having been tapped for it during the Helicarrier downtime (in #3) and telling Eric he's been assigned to hunt down the stolen ant-suit on page 6. Veronica, on page 15, references Eric's room troubles of page 7 as "yesterday". 
<<<

No assumptions please. I'm not suggesting a big gap in IAM 4-FB. IAM 4-FB (4-12) occurs the day before IAM-FB (13-19), just as you noted in your analysis. I just left the former out of the sequence. Here's my amended sequence, just be sure we're clear: 

IAM 4-FB (1-12) -- one day 

IAM 4-FB (13-19) -- next day; Eric and Veronica have sex one time only 

IAM 5-FB (4-13) -- same night 

[M-Day] 

IAM 5-FB (14-21) -- "two weeks" after IAM 5-FB (4-13); this time span must be preserved because it's here that Veronica discovers she's pregnant; there's talk about M-Day (presumably like it just happened??) 

IAM 6-FB (4-16) -- same night 

IAM 6-FB (17) -- "two days" after IAM 6-FB (4-16); in this segment, Congress is about to announce the Superhuman Registration Act, so that places this at a precise time very early during the Civil War, mere days after the Stamford incident, and just before the newspaper headline, Registration Act Passed by Congress, in CW 2 (3p1) 

Then follow along with my suggestion that all of the flashback scenes in IAM 4-6 occur just before and just after the start of Civil War.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 15 Apr 2007 01:56 pm    
By Somebody

I keep coming back to this, and I keep not seeing a way to convey what I mean. So I'll post this: 

 

And point out that the baby wouldn't have been made if her friends were out of the hospital.

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Posted: 15 Apr 2007 02:59 pm    
By Col_Fury

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
IAM 5-FB (14-21) -- "two weeks" after IAM 5-FB (4-13); this time span must be preserved because it's here that Veronica discovers she's pregnant; there's talk about M-Day (presumably like it just happened??)  
<<<

Without checking the books, the two weeks could be two months. Meaning, she didn't think to use the pregnancy test kit until after she'd missed her monthly. 

Would that work, and if so, does that even help? 

As for the hospital comment, her friends could still be in traction for up to two or three months, depending on the severity of their wounds. It would require us to ignore the 'maybe a month wasn't enough' line, and reinterpret it as more than a month. 

Again, would that work, and if so, does that even help?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

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Posted: 15 Apr 2007 03:09 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Somebody, can we still interpret this scene occurring several months after the crash? 

SHIELD sent folks back to work after only "a month" (as noted in the dialog). But does this scene have to occur at that month point? Maybe all their living colleagues are still in the hospital after several months, and the time the non-hospitalized crew took off was months in the past -- and obviously, even now, that down time not considered long enough, given how badly everyone still feels about the massive deaths and injuries. 

So why are they bringing up their depression now, after so much time? They may have been keeping things to themselves for a long time, or they may have been reassigned to other tasks in other places for those several months (after the month off), while a new helicarrier was being constructed. So it is just now in this scene that Eric "resumes his regular duties" and is reunited with Veronica. 

An argument against me: Right after the crash, in IAM 3-FB (18), SHIELD says the crew could be "on leave for over a month before a new carrier is up and running." So a new carrier was expected to take more than a month to be completed. But then, anything could have delayed production BTS -- and it certainly did turn out to be "more than a month." 

I think it's more important to anchor the scenes in this series to the MU events into which they tie, and however long it takes to get from, say, Enemy of the State to Civil War, is how long it takes. I think temporal references in IAM can be interpreted to allow for that time to transpire.
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 37

Posted: 15 Apr 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: Runaways Saga
By JD

RUNAWAYS SAGA 
Writers : C. B. Cebulski & Mindy Owens 
Penciller : Humberto Ramos (with reprinted artwork by Adrian Alphona, Takeshi Miyazawa & Mike Norton) 
Inker : Carlos Cuevas 
Published in March 2007 

Cast : 
- The Runaways : Nico Minoru/Sister Grimm, Molly Hayes/Bruiser/Princess Powerful, Chase Stein/Talkback, Victor Mancha/Victorious, Old Lace, Karolina Dean/Lucy in the Sky, Xavin, Leapfrog 

Main Story : (pages 1-2 & 47-48) 
The Runaways are on the run aboard the Leapfrog (they're just leaving Kansas, halfway in their trip from LA (RUN2 24) to New York (RUN2 25)). While Molly is asleep, the others peak through her diary. She then wakes up and scolds them. The end. 

Molly's diary : (pages 3-46) 
It's basically a long recap of RUN 1-18 and RUN2 1-24, written by Molly. 
- No new artwork, and no new events depicted. However, it clarifies the resolution of the half-cliffhanger at the end of RUN2 24 : confronted by Iron Man and a team of cape-killers, the Runaways just... ran away. 
- CW:YA&R and FCBD 2006 (the free Runaways/X-Men story) are ommited, but it's not as if anything important to the plot had happened in either of them. 
- It's rather clear that the diary was written in several times by Molly (usually at the end of each original story arc), emphasized by changes of font color. One may argue that Molly thus deserves a BTS status for writing the diary after each arc (hence after RUN 6, RUN 10, RUN 12, RUN 17, RUN 18, RUN2 6, RUN2 8, RUN2 12, RUN2 13, RUN2 18, RUN2 21, and RUN2 24), but I'm not really convinced. 


Thus, for everyone, the listings look like this : 
... 
RUN2 24 
RUNSAGA 
[RUN2 25-30]

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Posted: 15 Apr 2007 12:51 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks for the analysis, JD. 

Quote: 
>>>
It's rather clear that the diary was written in several times by Molly (usually at the end of each original story arc), emphasized by changes of font color. One may argue that Molly thus deserves a BTS status for writing the diary after each arc (hence after RUN 6, RUN 10, RUN 12, RUN 17, RUN 18, RUN2 6, RUN2 8, RUN2 12, RUN2 13, RUN2 18, RUN2 21, and RUN2 24), but I'm not really convinced.  
<<<

I would like to note the times that Molly was writing in her journal as BTS entries for the calendar. Would you break down the page/panel ranges for each narrative that appears in different color ink, and note after which issue of RUN or RUN2 each entry (range) should go? Thanks.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 16 Apr 2007 12:55 pm    
By JD

Okay... 

- pages 3-8 cover RUN 1-6 and were probably written soon after. 
- pages 9-11 cover RUN 7-10 : "I almost got eaten tonight !" 
- pages 11-14 cover RUN 11-12, and happened "today" 
- pages 15-20 cover RUN 13-17 and is also described as "today" 
- page 21 covers RUN 18 
- pages 22-26 cover RUN2 1-6 
- pages 27-29 cover RUN2 7-8 
- pages 30-32 cover RUN2 9-12 : "[Cloak] showed up today" 
- pages 33-34 cover RUN2 13 
- pages 35-39 cover RUN2 14-18 : "Today was the worst day of my life". 
- Curiously, page 40 is inked differently, even though it depicts the ending events from RUN2 18. The narrative confirms the dichotomy ("I lost two friends that day [Gert & Chase]"). pages 40-41 also cover RUN2 19-21. 
For what it's worth, the divide is between pages 17 and 18 of RUN2 18, but I don't think Molly got the time to write her diary between these two scenes. I prefer to believe that she wrote it just after the end of RUN2 18, and then had the details of Nico and Chase's actions in the closing scene explained to her afterwards. 
- pages 42-46 cover RUN2 22-24, as well as what was barely suggested in the original story : "we ran. Again." 

Is this enough information ?

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Posted: 16 Apr 2007 08:51 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

JD wrote: 
>>>
Is this enough information? 
<<<

You betcha! Thanks. 
_________________
Paul B.

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Thread 38

Posted: 15 Apr 2007 11:50 pm    Post subject: The New Avengers: AAFES giveaway #4
By jephyork
Director

THE NEW AVENGERS: AAFES GIVEAWAY #4 

Cover reads: The New Avengers: Letters Home 
Indicia reads: AAFES 4th Edition (no New Avengers title) 

Letters Home 
written by Stuart Moore 
art by Dave Ross, Amelia Woo, Carlo Barberi, and John Stanisci 
January 2007 

Appearances: 
Captain America 
Nick Fury 
The Silver Surfer 
Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze) 
The Punisher 
Many unnamed Hydra agents 

Synopsis: 

One day, in late December, 2006, Cap gets a call at Avengers Tower from Nick Fury, who alerts him that Hydra has seized control of a transmitter station in Arizona that controls a U.S. military satellite. The satellite is armed with a particle beam, which Hydra is threatening to use, but it has a secondary function  communications. Specifically, its the satellite that delivers active-duty soldiers e-mails home. Fury is unable to handle it, being out of action, and Cap mentions that the other Avengers are spending holiday time with their loved ones  so he contacts the Silver Surfer. 

The Surfer agrees to handle the robots that Hydra has placed on the satellite, and Cap says hell liberate the transmitter station  but he fears that Hydra might also attack the satellites remote station overseas, and wishes someone was able to travel there and retrieve the soldiers e-mails. The Surfer suggests Ghost Rider. 

We cut to Ghost Rider attacking the Hydra agents who are, indeed, laying seige to the overseas base  and the narration starts reading a letter that a much younger Johnny Blaze wrote to Roxanne Simpson, back in his early days as GR. In it he apologizes for taking off for a while, stating his need to get his head together  as hes only been GR for a short while. In the present-day, GR defeats the Hydra agents, and asks the soldiers manning the staton to copy the e-mails onto a flash drive he brought with him. 

Meanwhile, in space, the Silver Surfer fights a many-headed dragon-like robot that Hydra has placed on the satellite  as the narration now plays a letter he recorded long ago to Shalla-Bal. He mentions that these past weeks, since becoming the Surfer, he has seen wonders beyong his imagination. The present-day Surfer defeats the robot, and contacts Cap via radio, stating that the satellite is still armed, and asking if he should destroy it. Cap tells him to sit tight. 

Meanwhile, in Arizona, Cap parachutes down outside the transmitter station, and battles his way inside, as the narration reads a letter written from a soldier on the battlefield to the woman he loves. Both the letter and Caps progress, though, are interrupted as Cap rounds a corner to come face-to-face with the Punisher! Frank thanks Cap for the diversion that allowed him to slip inside, and the two forge an uneasy alliance and defeat the Hydra goons that are controlling the particle beam. As the US military mops up outside, and GR arrives with the flash drive, the letter continues  and as the soldier talks about being due to be rotated home soon, and missing his wife and kids  we learn that it wasnt Caps letter after all  it was the Punishers. 

Chronology clues: 

Its late December, 2006. 

Cap is working out of Avengers Tower, on which we see the Sentry spires. 

Nick Fury is kind of outta action right now, and is contacting Cap via viewscreen. 

The Avengers are all off with their families for the holidays. Even Wolverines spending some quality time with the X-Men. Wolvies the only one mentioned by name, but presumably Caps referring to the New Avengers  which would be Spider-Man, Iron Man, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, and the Sentry. Since we know what theyre up to at the time of the story, should they all get BTS appearances? 

Im not sure how Cap contacted the Surfer, but he tells him that Dr. Richards said youd returned to Earth. Should that count as a BTS appearance for Mr. Fantastic? 

The Surfer replies My lord Galactus has given me leave to visit this world, from time to time  so hes Galactus herald again here. Although in his letter the Surfer waxes very poetic, in the present-day portions he appears quite emotionless. 

The Surfer suggests Ghost Rider to Cap, describing him as only recently returned to this plane of existence. 

Its never specifically stated where the overseas soldiers are, but they mention insurgents. 

As stated above, Johnny Blazes letter to Roxanne was written only a short while since he first became Ghost Rider. 

Ghost Rider uses his flame-breath power. 

As stated above, the Silver Surfers letter to Shalla-Bal was recorded weeks after he first became Galactus herald and departed Zenn-La. 

The Punisher describes himself as Captain Francis Castle, U.S. Army Infantry and Special Forces. Two purple hearts, one distinguished service medal, three oak clusters. Discharged with honor. 

The Punishers letter to his wife was written during the holiday season, and as stated above, hes due to be rotated home soon. 

The issue probably occurs over the course of a single day. As the issue opens, its daytime (blue sky) in Arizona. When Cap contacts the Surfer, its sunset (purple and prange sky) in New York City. When GR rescues the overseas soldiers, its nighttime (cloudy grey/purple sky). When Cap liberates the Arizona transmitter, its sunset (yellow/orange sky) in Arizona. Taking the various time zones into account, this all makes perfect sense. 

There you go, Paul. Hope that helps! 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 16 Apr 2007 06:00 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks much, Jeph!  

It'll take me a little while to figure out placement based on the clues, which I hope aren't mutually exclusive. In the meantime, I'm interested in placing the letters that were written in this issue, since they do establish past activity by the featured characters. Would you note page/panel ranges for the letter texts?
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 16 Apr 2007 09:54 am    
By jephyork
Director

Ghost Rider's letter: p.5 panel 1 through p.8 panel 1 
Silver Surfer's letter: p.9 panel 1 through p.13 panel 4 
Punisher's letter, part 1: p.14 panel 1 through p.15 panel 4 
Punisher's letter, part 2: p.21 panel 4 through p.22 panel 6 

I should note that the Punisher gets interrupted while writing his letter. He trails off mid-sentence on p.15, and when he starts up again on p.21, he says "Sorry, babe. Got interrupted there. I won't tell you by what." 

This may be completely irrelevant, but there's always a slim chance that there's a preexisting story out there where it's the holiday season in Vietnam, Frank's due to be rotated home soon, and something like a sneak attack on his platoon occurs. It'd be really cool if we could fit his letter-writing in around such a story. 

-Jeph!

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Posted: 16 Apr 2007 10:51 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
It'd be really cool if we could fit his letter-writing in around such a story. 
<<<

Ummm, you misspelled "kewl". 


watching: lost

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Posted: 16 Apr 2007 08:37 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks, Jeph. I recall a Punisher Vietnam-era chronology posted here recently. Maybe the Frank Castle experts among us will find a good spot for Frank to have written this letter.
_________________
Paul B.

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Posted: 17 Apr 2007 06:10 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Jeph wrote (in another thread): 
>>>
Don't sweat too much about the "late December" in the AAFES book, either, Paul. It's just a giveaway comic. And, since it came out in January 2007, a late-December setting is the very definition of a topical reference. 
<<<

I did sweat a little. I knew the holiday reference wasn't going to work, since the CW Winter Soldier story and W3 49 both occurred at Christmas. I was trying to get the AAFES comic to be a Thanksgiving reference, but that wasn't working either -- too much CW stuff to cram into the few weeks between the holidays. 

So I'm ignoring the holiday reference. The New Avengers are just...out. To me, this story has worse things going for it. Cap: "Hey, my teammates are out. I know. I'll get...the Silver Surfer???" Surfer: "Hey, how about we get...Ghost Rider. I hear he's back??" O-kay. 

In case you're wondering, I'm placing this just after the Surfer becomes Galactus' herald again and just before the Stamford incident.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 39

Posted: 18 Apr 2007 03:51 am    Post subject: Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos 63-73
By Col_Fury

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #63 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Dino Manelli, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Jerry Larkin 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg5 
Jerry Larkin has been assigned to the Howling Commandos, which is a surprise to Capt. Sawyer. After introducing himself to the squad, its revealed that he and Dino Manelli used to be a comedy team. 
pg6-pg20: next day 
The Howling Commandos parachute into enemy territory to sabotage German submarine pens. Jerry puts himself at risk to draw enemy fire and pulls Fury out of the way when hes injured. They succeed in destroying the sub pens, but Jerry is shot by a German soldier. As he dies, Jerry explains to Dino that he was dying of cancer. 

References: 
A stand alone story, all cast members accounted for, making this a regular status quo issue. 

If Dino Manelli wasnt a thinly veiled Dean Martin before, then having his old comedy partner Jerry show up doesn't do that veil any favors. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #64 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Dino Manelli, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Captain Simon Savage, Jay Little Bear, Rolphe Harrison, Cpl. Jacques LaRocque, Roy Stone, Sgt. Sam Yates, Dr. Terry Reiker, Lee Bakers corpse 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg19 
Captain Savage and the Raiders mourn Lee Baker, and then the two squads continue their mission. They storm the castle and quickly find Dr. Terry Reiker, atomic scientist. However, she believes that the Japanese are peaceful and the Americans arent, so shes defected willingly, and wasnt captured after all. However, they have their orders and plan to take her back to Allied territory anyway. On their way out she calls for help and brings more Japanese soldiers. When she asks them to help her, the Colonel explains that shes done all the work they need, and they plan to use her research to build an atomic bomb to defeat their enemies. She then willingly escapes with Fury, and they quickly meet up with the others. 
pg20: two days later 
Fury points out to the others the front page story in Stars & Stripes: American Scientist Found Dead in Protest Against War! 

References: 
Continued from Captain Savage #11! 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #65 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Ilsa Koenig, Frau Gerta Heinz 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg7 
Eric Koenig pledges his allegiance to the Nazi cause to Frau Heinz, and she orders him to capture Sgt. Fury and deliver him to the Nazis for execution. Elsewhere, Dino and Ilsa are on a date and theyre attacked by Eric and some goons. 
pg8-pg20: next day 
Fury tells Sawyer that Dino and Ilsa are missing, and then he gets a suspicious call from Ilsa. He tells the Howlers whats going on and heads over to Ilsas place, where he gets into a fight with Eric. The Howlers arrive, but Eric escapes with the captive Fury and traps the others. 

References: 
Continued in next issue! 

This issue starts the temporary status quo of Eric Koenig defecting to the Nazis. Dont worry, Eric will come back to the team he has to! He was with them during the Battle of the Bulge, the Fire-Bombing of Dresden, etc.(hes back as of issue 79, by the way) What this means is, the Howling Commandos cant make any appearances with Eric as part of the team in other books between issues 65 & 79. They can make appearances if Eric isnt part of the team, though 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #66 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Frau Gerta Heinz, Adolph Hitler, FDR, 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg20pn5 
Hitler gives a speech as he prepares to publicly execute Sgt. Fury. Meanwhile in England, Capt. Sawyer sends for the Howling Commandos. Theyre being sent to the States to train American troops. Back in Berlin, Sgt. Furys execution is about to take place when Allied planes strafe the place. Fury escapes in the confusion, but hes injured. A woman with the German resistance, Coral Liebowitz, helps him get by Nazi troops searching for him, and they go to her place. Later, the Howlers arrive in the United States and are greeted by President Roosevelt. That night, Coral attempts to get Fury a uniform, but theyre ambushed by Koenig. After a fight Fury and Coral escape, but Fury swears vengeance against Koenig. 
pg20pn6-pg20pn7: two days later 
The Howlers receive word that Fury is alive, but hes still in Germany with the German Underground. Meanwhile, Fury says hes staying in Germany until he can get Koenig. 

References: 
Continued in next issue! 

The Howlers have been sent to America to train troops. Why the Howlers? My guess, theyve been in Europe for a while now,(over two years at this point, by my math) while almost no other Americans have been. Also, theyre the best. Also, America is probably in the last stages of preparing for an invasion of Europe 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #67 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Sgt. Bull McGiveney, Adolph Hitler 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg5 
Dum Dum and the Howlers set about training American troops. Capt. Sawyer orders Sgt. McGiveney and his Maulers to retrieve Fury, and to help him in his mission if its important enough. Fury and the German Underground prepare to capture Hitler. Hitler orders Koenig to recapture Fury, else the penalty is death. 
pg6-pg20: next day 
Fury meets a rendezvous with German Underground member Oscar Fruend as Eric receives orders to accompany Hitler on a surprise visit to the same. As McGiveney and his Maulers parachute into Germany, Dum Dum and the Howlers receive a phone call, ordering them back to England. As Hitler threatens Freund, Fury decides his best shot is to assassinate Hitler, but the Maulers start shooting outside, ruining his chance. Hitler escapes, as does Eric as Fury and McGiveney fight. Coral covers for Eric, whos working with him. The Howlers arrive in England, but turn back around for the States. 

References: 
Its been two weeks since last issue. 

Continued next issue! 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #68 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Col. Fritz Klaue, Dawn Fury, Jake Fury, Mama Fury 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg15 
Nick visits his family in New York while on leave. He makes a phone call to the Howlers who are training American troops and makes plans for them to meet his family over the weekend. While walking the street hes attacked by Nazis, but they miss and he crashes their car, killing them. When he gets back to the apartment, his sister Dawn is happy to see him, but his brother Jake is not. He storms out and is captured by Col. Klaue. Hearing his Jakes yell, Nick goes to help, but is ambushed and captured. Jake escapes. 
pg16-pg20: two days later 
The Howlers arrive at the Furys apartment, and Jake tells them what happened. As theyre about to go find Nick, Klaue arrives with a brainwashed Fury. 

References: 
Its been a few days since last issue. 

Nick mentions he hasnt been home in about three years, thanks to his military service. Since this is in May of 1944,(thanks to a later issue) that means he signed up in mid 1941. 

For those who care; Dawn is 16 here, meaning she was born sometime between 1927 & 1928. Jake is 20 here, meaning he was born sometime between 1923 & 1924. Nick was born sometime between March 1919 and March 1920, thanks to Marvel Spotlight 31. 

Mama Fury seen here is actually Nicks Step-Mother. They felt the need to point that out, but not what her name was. 

Once again, the Fury one-shot presents a problem. Jake Fury appears here with anti-war sentiments. At the end of next issue, he changes his mind and says hell sign up for military service. However, the Fury one-shot shows Jake already in the service(well, at least in a military uniform) a few days after the events of Sgt. Fury 29. But if he didnt sign up until after Sgt. Fury 69, then whats he doing there a few days after Sgt. Fury 29? Argh! Its a mistake on the Fury one-shots part, rationalize it any way you want. Myself, Im pretending that Jakes in the National Guard shortly after Sgt. Fury 29, and decides to sign up for European combat after Sgt. Fury 69. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #69 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Col. Fritz Klaue, Dawn Fury, Jake Fury, Mama Fury 

pg1-pg20 
The Howling Commandos defeat Col. Klaue and his Nazis. Fury had been drugged and now that its worn off, hes fine. 

References: 
Continued from last issue, all in one day. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #70 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Sgt. Bob Jenkins, Pvt. Ron Mawson, Pvt. Leroy Davis, Pvt. Eddie Robinson, Pvt. Dwight Smith, Pvt. Paul Schade, Pvt. David Wood 

Synopsis: 
pg1 
The Missouri Maulers have a drink on the night before their first mission. 
pg2-pg20: next day, after midnight 
Capt. Sawyer briefs the Howling Commandos on their mission: destroy a heavily guarded bridge that the Nazis are using to move heavy equipment to the French Coast, and theyre to be accompanied by the Missouri Maulers. The Howlers retrieve the Maulers from the bar and make their way to France via plane. They parachute in and meet Nazi resistance, but a rogue German plane guns down the German troops. 

References: 
As revealed in a future issue,(79) thats Eric Koenig piloting the rogue German plane. We dont se him in the issue, but of you squint, you can see a little head & shoulders in the cockpit. Thats him. 

hey. This issues already in the MCP! 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #71 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Sgt. Bob Jenkins, Pvt. Ron Mawson, Pvt. Leroy Davis, Pvt. Eddie Robinson, Pvt. Dwight Smith, Pvt. Paul Schade, Pvt. David Wood 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg19: same day as end of last issue 
The Howlers and Maulers have located the bridge, but theyre interrupted before they can detonate the explosives. Fury decides to blow up an approaching tank, hoping that the resulting fire will burn the bridge down. However, it starts to rain and it puts the fire out. The rogue German plane returns, and destroys the bridge for them. 
pg20: two days later 
The Howling Commandos and the Missouri Maulers share a drink at a bar. 

References: 
Continued from last issue. 

Noted as May, 1944. 

Guess whos flying that plane? Thats right 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #72 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Capt. Sam Sawyer 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg2 
Capt. Sawyer and the Howling Commandos relax and have some fun over drinks, and Sawyer tells a story from his intelligence days with the British government. 
pg3-pg5-FB: Summer of 1940 
Sam Sawyer has been sent to Marrakesh by the British Government to help a refugee from Germany escape to America. He goes to Mikes Chicago Bar to meet a possible contact, but when he mentions the name Wilhelm Steuben, Mike gives him the cold shoulder. That night, an attempt is made to kill Sam in his hotel, but Sam gets the better of him and sends him on his way. 
pg6-pg19-FB: next day 
Sam is woken by an officer in the army of Vichy France. Charly Ming, the man who tried to kill Sam, has been found dead and they have a warrant for Sams arrest for the murder. He escapes, but is stopped by Capt. Eric LeRoux, who brings him to Mikes Chicago Bar. It turns out that LeRoux is an opportunist, and Sawyer goes on his way. Hes attacked and brought to Pasha Omar Bey, where Wilhelm Steuben is waiting for him. Once theyve made sure that Steubens contact is safe they prepare to leave, but theyre delayed by LeRoux. Once LeRoux is out of the way, Sawyer and Steuben hop a sub to London so Steuben can then get on a plane for America. 
pg20 
Capt. Sawyer sends the Howlers back to base to get some rest; their next assignment is going to be a doozy! 

References: 
And boy, was Sam right about their next mission! I have this on June 4, 1944, and their next mission as preparing for and participating in the Allied Invasion of France, as seen in Sgt. Fury King-Sized Special #2. 

Speaking of SGTF@ 2, theres no Eric present in that issue. As it turns out, Eric isnt currently on the squad in this run of issues. Its almost as if they planned it this way 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #73 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Sgt. Bull McGiveney, Col. Kyril Kuslov 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg3: the Russian Front 
As the Soviets bomb a German supply line, Sgt. Fury and Col. Kuslov come to blows. 
pg4-pg10-FB: a few days back 
Captain Sawyer informs Sgt. Fury that he and his Howlers will accompany Col. Kyril Kuslov in assisting the Soviets sabotage German supply lines to Russia. That night Fury and the Howlers meet Kuslov at a bar in the spirit of friendship, but McGiveney interferes and starts a fight with Fury. The Military Police arrive and everyone is thrown in the guardhouse. 
pg11-FB: next day 
Capt. Sawyer and Col. Kuslov get Fury out so they can go on their assignment. 
Pg12-pg20: the Russian Front 
Fury and Kuslov calm down and continue with their mission. Fury meets up with the Howlers and assist the Soviets in destroying a German supply convoy. Afterwards, Fury and Kuslov come to and understanding. 

References: 
This has to take place before August 15, 1944, before relations begin to break down between Britain and the Soviets. So, between June & August 1944. 

And look at that, Sgt. Fury 74 is already in the MCP! 

Some placement suggestions! 

FURY, SGT. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH 
 
SGTF 61 
*SGTF 63 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
NA: AAFES 3 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 
*SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
*SGTF 73-FB 
*SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
SGTF 110 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW (10/44) 
 


DUGAN, TIMOTHY ALOYISIOUS CADWALLADER "DUM DUM" 
 
SGTF 61 
*SGTF 63 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
NA: AAFES 3 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
*SGTF 73-FB 
*SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
SGTF 110 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
 


RALSTON, ROBERT "REB" 
 
SGTF 61 
*SGTF 63 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
*SGTF 73-FB 
*SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
SGTF 110 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
 


MANELLI, DINO 
 
SGTF 61 
*SGTF 63 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
*SGTF 73-FB 
*SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
SGTF 110 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
 


JONES, GABRIEL "GABE" 
 
SGTF 61 
*SGTF 63 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
*SGTF 73-FB 
*SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
SGTF 110 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
 


COHEN, "IZZY" 
 
SGTF 61 
*SGTF 63 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
*SGTF 73-FB 
*SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
SGTF 110 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
 


PINKERTON, PERCIVAL "PINKY" 
 
SGTF 61 
*SGTF 63 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
*SGTF 73-FB 
*SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
 


SAWYER, CAPTAIN SAMUEL 
SGTF 34 (3:3-17:7)-FB (05/40) 
*SGTF 72-FB (summer/40) 
SGTF 34 (18:2-19:3)-FB 
SGTF 11 (9:4-9:5)-FB 
SGTF 34 (19:4-19:9)-FB (12/41) 
SGTF 11 (9:6)-FB 
SGTF 44-FB 
 
SGTF 61 
*SGTF 63 
CS 11 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
*SGTF 73-FB 
SGTF 74 
SGTF 119-FB 
 


KOENIG, ERIC 
 
SGTF 61 
*SGTF 63 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
*SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 
SGTF 110 
 


MCGIVENEY, SGT. BULL 
 
SGTF 59 
*SGTF 67 
*SGTF 73-FB 
 


ROOSEVELT, FRANKLIN DELANO 
 
SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
*SGTF 66 
MSU 9 (01/45) 


HITLER, ADOLF 
 
SGTF 59 
*SGTF 66 
*SGTF 67 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
 

SAVAGE, CAPT. SIMON SKIPPER 
 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
CS 12 
 

LITTLE BEAR, JAY 
 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
CS 12 
 

HARRISON, ROLFE 
 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
CS 12 
 

LAROCQUE, CPL. JACQUES 
 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
CS 12 
 

STONE, ROY "BLARNEY" 
 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
CS 12 
 

YATES, SGT. SAM "YAKETTY" 
 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64 
CS 12 
 

BAKER, LEE 
 
CS 11 
*SGTF 64-BTS 
CS 12-BTS 
 


REIKER, TERRY DR. 
CS 11-BTS 
*SGTF 64 

KOENIG, ILSA 
 
SGTF 47 
*SGTF 65 


HEINZ, GERTA 
SGTF 47 
*SGTF 65 
*SGTF 66 

KLAUE, COL. FRITZ 
 
SGTF 48 
SGTF 59 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 

FURY, DAWN 
ST 159-FB 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 
H2 434 

SCORPIO/JAKE FURY 
ST 159-FB 
FOS 4-FB 
FURY 1 (6)-FB 
*SGTF 68 
*SGTF 69 
W/NF-FB 
 

JENKINS, BOB SGT. 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 

DAVIS, LEROY 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 

MAWSON, RON 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 

ROBINSON, EDDIE 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 

SCHADE, PAUL 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 

SMITH, DWIGHT 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 

WOOD, DAVID 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 71 (05/44) 

Up next: the rest of Sgt. Fury!
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Apr 2007 02:25 am    
By Enda80

Hey, this reminds me. In Fantastic Four I#9 (December 1962) a man resembling Dino Manelli appears at the front gate of S.M. 
Studios. Now, it was probably meant to be Dean Martin, 
but who says it can't be Dino Manelli?

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Apr 2007 06:48 pm    
By Col_Fury

On the one hand, I like that idea; I mean, Dino is basically the Marvel Universe's version of Dean. On the other hand, that would mean he appeared in Fantastic Four six months before his first published appearance in Sgt. Fury #1. Hrmn. 

This sounds like the same case as Mr. Sinister 'appearing' in Uncanny X-Men 39/2. It might be Mr. Sinister, but until it's confirmed it's not him. So, I would think that it might be Dino Manelli in FF 9, but until it's confirmed it's not.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Thread 40

Posted: 19 Apr 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Druid 1-4
By JLH

Gap book, from all the way back when Warren Ellis books didn't sell! (the more things change...) 

------------------------------------ 
DRUID #1 [May 1995] 
Writer: Warren Ellis 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"Sick of This" 

Cast: 
DOCTOR DRUID/ANTHONY LUDGATE/"ANTHONY DRUID" (also in FB) 
HELLSTORM/DAIMON HELLSTROM 
BABY ICON 
WARHOL, ANDY (BTS, one of Baby's ghosts) 
HEMINGWAY 
REDEYES 

Other characters: 
Scurve (dies) 
Ropemaster Azuma (BTS) 
tied up woman 
Smoke General 
Miss Drugstore 
a clever, young magician (BTS) 


Summary: So, Dr Druid faked his death and now lives in Manhattan with a bunch of bottom feeders in a Penthouse. One of them, Scurve, gets into his occult books and tries to summon Satan. This calls forth Hellstorm, who is the current ruler of Hell in place of his father. Needless to say, he's not happy, and proceeds to torture the young man. Doc Druid becomes aware of this too late, and tries to repell the demon spawn. He gets seriously beaten by Hellstorm, who burns Scurve to death and departs, allowing Druid to live, but warned. Something snaps in Druid, failing and being humiliated once again. He rushes to his room and spends at least a day naked and kneeling beneath a large oak tree. Druid at last has accessed the rituals in the back of his mind since he left Tibet, and is using the ritual of change. Soon, it happens, the speaking of the first movement, his body is flooded with roots and leaves of the oak tree, and he learns the history of the Druids. Then the second movement is spoken, and his body becomes aflame like the Wicker Man, and he witnesses events currently happening in the world that he will become involved in (or would, had the series lasted longer). By this point, his body fat has melted off, and his skin is covered with black tattoos of varying designs. Druid's unable to prevent himself from speaking the third and final movement, even trying to claw out his own throat to stop it. With this, he sees the future, the world lacks seas and phytoplankton, thus the lack of oxygen burns his lungs. This future is because of Druid's rebirth, he'll herald an apocalypse that will destroy the world and lead to its rebirth for the better. Finally reborn with long black Alan Moore-ishy hair and beard (or rather, Spider Jerusalem, pre-shave), Druid emerges from his room, much to the horror of his makeshift roommates. Speaking of which, there's "sweet" Baby Icon, who can see famous ghosts that hang around with her; Hemingway, a mystic wannabe who helped dispose of Scurve's body; Redeyes, a woman with a dark secret and perceives herself as Erzulie Ge-Rouge. Demanding he be called Anthony Ludgate, the last Druid stands reborn and all threatening-like. 


Flashback: I haven't a clue the specifics of what FBs for Druid are unseen events, so, assistance is needed. 
1) "Twenty Years or more", Anthony Ludgate sitting at a desk with a book on Celtic history. 2) Ludgate sitting beside Stonehenge at night. 3) Ludgate walking through the snowy Tibeten mountains, reaching the temple, then getting zapped by the bald monk who is really the Ancient One. He sees visions of a Wicker Man, and other druidic fluff. This causes him to vomit. 4) Ludgate in his traditional costume, with the blue cloak and red garb. 5) During the first movement, we see a cowled druid standing over a huge pile of dead bodies. 6) A druid on a horse. 7) Some guy getting sacrificed by a druid. 8) Romans killing a druid. 


Continuity notes: Hellstorm is the current Satan, a role he took over during the Hellstorm series. 

Mention is made of Druid's time with the Secret Defenders. "Some months ago" he faked his death to get away from the threats and responsibilities of it, meaning this is post SD 25. 


------------------------------------ 
DRUID #2 [Jun 1995] 
Writer: Warren Ellis 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"Mind to Meat" 

Cast: 
DOCTOR DRUID/ANTHONY LUDGATE/"ANTHONY DRUID" 
HEMINGWAY 
REDEYES 
HELLSTORM/DAIMON HELLSTROM (BTS) 
SINCLAIR, NEKRA/"ADRIENNE HATROS" 
BABY ICON 
MORRISON, JIM (BTS, one of Baby's ghosts) 


Other characters: 
Racist cab driver (dies) 
Washer-Woman at the Ford 
Second Assembly's Messiah made of meat 
Second Assembly Member 
Oscar (bts, another of Baby's famous ghosts. Possibly Oscar Wilde, but for all we know could be the original orange Oscar the Grouch) 


Summary: Druid decides to finally go out, forcing Hemingway to come along. He gets annoyed with a cabbie and ignites the phosphorus in his body. He also smacks Hemingway aside, through a window, when he dares to call him a God, since as a Druid he's the interpreter to the words of the Gods and finds calling him one blasphemous. So, Druid wants to start up a business consultating and investigating occult situations. He's done it before, and needs the money, but will only take cases he can win or can provide him with taboo knowledge. This is the set-up for the series, you see, and is almost immediately ignored. So, while Hemingway is out getting him his first case, Druid takes a stroll by the Hudson River and spots the Washer-Woman at the Ford washing the blood out of the white suit he's currently got on. He realizes who she is and flees in terror, since she's an apparition that haunted great Celtics in old Ireland, and was always a portent of unavoidable death. See: Cuchulain. So, at a pub called Parnell's Ruin, Hemingway finds a woman with a lot of Hindu jewelry, named Nekra Sinclair. Anyway, Druid frets over the fact he doesn't know his Geis, the taboo all great Celts had that will strip them of their powers. Druids usually told others what their's was, and other druids told fellow druids their's. But he's the last, so, he's boned, pretty much. So, Nekra is brought to the penthouse and relays her story, how she's a high priestess of a Cult of Kali in California, and how some men broke into her chapel and stole corpses of murderers and rapists. With those corpses, and others, the people who stole them, a group called the Second Assembly intends to use the dead bodies to construct a sacreligious messiah. Anyway, Nekra wants her corpses back, since it's an insult to Kali the way they were stolen and are being desecrated. Druid, who appears attracted to the albino, worries that his Geis might be helping strangers. But offered the chance to stop a false god? Second Assembly is a splinter movement from a Siberian cult called the Dry Academy, which we'll learn more about later. So, Druid dispatches his trio to find out where the Second Assembly is located. Meanwhile, throughout the whole issue, the big mass of body parts merges into a living being. 


------------------------------------ 
DRUID #3 [Jul 1995] 
Writer: Warren Ellis 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"Dream to Me" 

Cast: 
DOCTOR DRUID/ANTHONY LUDGATE/"ANTHONY DRUID" 
HELLSTORM/DAIMON HELLSTROM (BTS) 
SWEET BABY ICON 
HEMINGWAY 
REDEYES 
SINCLAIR, NEKRA/"ADRIENNE HATROS" 


Other characters: 
Second Assembly's Messiah made of meat (dies) 
Montague 
Smoke Generals 
Five members of the Second Assembly (all die) 
Ropemaster Akuma 
tied up woman 

Summary: So, one of the stories planned ahead that appeared in a panel in issue 1 was a woman bound upside down in a room. Here, we revisit her, and we see the guy responsible for her plight, a Japanese fellow called Ropemaster Azuma. Some sort of thing called Kimbaku is what's he's up to. Just forget him, he's never mentioned again. Back in the US, Hemingway beats some info out of his informant Montague, concerning the Second Assembly. Back at his place, Druid questions Nekra some more, learning the story of the Dry Academy. They rule the world, and have a bunch of disembodied heads, called Smoke Generals, underground in Tunguska keeping up a spell that sustains an illusion of reality to hide the unimaginable horror that the world really is actually. Druid thinks this a lie and plans on taking them down next. Hemingway informs him the S.A. is located in an old Salvation Army in the Bowry. He goes alone, melts the door with his mastry of the elements, and starts killing the guard, some evil dogs, and soon the members themselves. He's very inventive in his violence, I have to say. Druid finally reaches the messiah, who knows what he's there for. He does tell Druid that the Dry Academy was right, the messiah was made to personify that hidden truth of the world the D.A. hides. He goes on to explain that when Mt. St. Helens erupted, the CIA found bodies that were in the vents at the base of the volcano, wrapped in platinum scrolls that stated the Smoke Generals come from a future where the true nature of the world was revealed, leading to mass suicide, which was the whole phytoplankton-less future Druid saw. Our "hero" doesn't buy any of this, ignoring meat boy's warnings, and is destroyed. Druid returns to his home, informing Nekra that her corpses were already used. He now wants to track down the Dry Academy. But first, Nekra lures him into the bedroom for a little romance. Romance that ends with a scream of agony! 


------------------------------------ 
DRUID #4 [Aug 1995] 
Writer: Warren Ellis 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"Sick of it All" 

Cast: 
DOCTOR DRUID/ANTHONY LUDGATE/"ANTHONY DRUID" 
HELLSTORM/DAIMON HELLSTROM 
SWEET BABY ICON (dies) 
HEMINGWAY (dies) 
REDEYES (dies) 
SINCLAIR, NEKRA/"ADRIENNE HATROS" 
WARHOL, ANDY 
MORRISON, JIM 

Other characters: 
Smoke Generals (most die, temporarily) 
Miss Drugstore 
a clever, young magician 



Summary: So, Druid's roomies hear the scream and rush in, since Redeyes never trusted Nekra. They find both of them nearly naked, with Druid having realized his Geis was to "love" a witch. Nekra in fact knew this all along! Elsewhere, Miss Drugstore, one of those single-panel storyline set-ups from issue 1, makes a cameo for no reason other than to just get used before the book dies. Back at Druid's place, Nekra was sent just to test the limits of his powers, and defuse him. Acting quickly, Druid grabs one of his celtic blades, calls upon the Triple Goddess and stabs Hemingway, nailing him to the oak tree. He sacrifices his lackey as an apology to the goddess, since he didn't know his Geis. Druid gets his powers back, signified by his head burst into flames. Finally sick of keeping secrets, he tells Baby Icon to leave, and reveals that Redeyes is a serial killer who's killed about 17 guys for loving her. Elsewhere, the last of the issue 1 set-ups plays out, a "clever young magician" in London in an ancient bone field becomes aware of the impending end of the world, just as Miss Drugstore did. So, Baby Icon flees, only to get shot down. Now a ghost, she's led away by her resident spirits, Andy Warhol and Jim Morrison. Druid mentions how he's keeping Redeyes around, in case he needs another sacrifice to the Triple Goddess. But the gunman puts her down, too! Druid kills him, though a little too late. Turns out, it's one of the Dry Academy, trying to stop Druid's master plan. Thinking Nekra was working with them all along, Druid prepares to use his mastry of the Earth to destroy the Smoke Generals, when Nekra shows back up and uses the gunman's gun to shoot him. But he stays alive along enough to summon up a thermonuclear sun to land in Tunguska. The worldspell breaks, and Nekra and Druid see themselves for what they really are. The sky is meat, it rains fetuses, ghost maggots in us and diseases visible. Suicide becomes the only option to escape stinking bodies of no skin. Nekra keeps shooting him, as he pleads that he only wanted to stop hurting. Suddenly, the worldspell is restored. Hellstorm appears, revealed to be the real figure behind Nekra, having reanimated her from Hell just to test Druid. His becoming a vast occult power attracted this new Satan's attention, obviously. The Dry Academy was only briefly interrupted by his attack. Hellstorm is convinced by this act of near-planetary destruction proves Druid is too dangerous to live, and utterly a failure. As he withers up into a skeleton, Druid cries, and says he just didn't want to be hurt anymore. Later, his remains are burned in a garbage can. 


Continuity notes: Druid's still dead today. Don't smoke. 

Goofs: Druid calls the Dry Academy gunman a "Smoke General", yet the Smoke Generals are bodiless heads. This guy has a full body. 



------------------------------------ 

DOCTOR DRUID/ANTHONY LUDGATE/"ANTHONY DRUID" 
... 
SECDEF 25 
DRUID 1 
**DRUID 2 
**DRUID 3 
**DRUID 4 
A3 10 
... 


HELLSTORM/DAIMON HELLSTROM 
... 
SECDEF 25 
DRUID 1 
**DRUID 2-BTS 
**DRUID 3-BTS 
**DRUID 4 
NIGHTMAN2 2/2 
... 


SINCLAIR, NEKRA/"ADRIENNE HATROS" 
... 
AWC 65 
**DRUID 2 
**DRUID 3 
**DRUID 4 
WITCHES 1 


**HEMINGWAY 
DRUID 1 
DRUID 2 
DRUID 3 
DRUID 4 

**REDEYES/ 
DRUID 1 
DRUID 2 
DRUID 3 
DRUID 4 

**BABY ICON/ 
DRUID 1 
DRUID 2 
DRUID 3 
DRUID 4 

**WARHOL, ANDY 
DRUID 1-BTS 
DRUID 4 

**MORRISON, JIM 
DRUID 2-BTS 
DRUID 4 

Now, onto my final Gap series analysis!

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Apr 2007 06:21 pm    
By Enda80

The washer woman was also in X-Men True Friends.

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Apr 2007 07:02 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Druid is too dangerous to live, and utterly a failure. As he withers up into a skeleton, Druid cries, and says he just didn't want to be hurt anymore. Later, his remains are burned in a garbage can. 
<<<

More mid-90s limited series should have ended this way. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 41

Posted: 13 Apr 2007 06:03 am    Post subject: Last call for Civil War-era analyses
By Paul Bourcier
Director

After I review the comics I picked up this week and add them to the calendar, I plan to post a draft calendar from the Stamford incident on so we can figure out how Civil War-era scenes play out chronologically. I'll be happy to add any comics from the call list that happen during this time period if the analyses are posted in the next few days. 

Thanks to all our analysts! 
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Apr 2007 11:07 am    
By Kevin W.
Director

You know what? I should be able to find time today to put up an anaylsis for Daredevil v2 #94. Paul, were you able to place DD2 89-93 on your calender without any major hitches? 

I should also be able to get Hulk vol. 3 #104-105 up in the next few days as well, (paving the way for World War Hulk). But it looks like White Tiger will have to wait, (since the 6th issue isn't out yet)...
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Apr 2007 07:25 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
Paul, were you able to place DD2 89-93 on your calender without any major hitches? 
<<<

No problem at all. Thanks for the analysis of those issues. 


Quote: 
>>>
I should be able to find time today to put up an anaylsis for Daredevil v2 #94...I should also be able to get Hulk vol. 3 #104-105 up in the next few days as well 
<<<

That would be great. Thanks, Kevin.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 13 Apr 2007 10:04 pm    
By Kevin W.
Director

Quote: 
>>>
I should be able to find time today to put up an anaylsis for Daredevil v2 #94. 
<<<

Allright, make that some time this weekend, not today...it's been a long day. But I will get everything up in the next few days.
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Apr 2007 05:58 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

My plan is to submit an entire revised calendar for July Year 20-April Year 24 to Russ on Sunday. (Knock wood.) I'm just working on adding six books I picked up Wednesday and tackling a couple of minor issues, then I'll be ready. 

I'll be happy to incorporate any of the following books into the revision if I receive analyses today or tomorrow. Otherwise, we'll save 'em for next time. I'm not sure all these are published as of now, as I'm going by Previews schedules. 

Agents of Atlas #1-6 (Eric) 
Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus (JLH) 
Books of Doom #1-6 (Eric) 
Blade v3 #8 
Daughters of the Dragon #1-6 
Eternals v3 #1-7 (Eric) 
Franklin Richards: Son of a Genius Super Summer Spectacular 
Incredible Hulk v3 #104-105 (Kevin) 
Legion of Monsters: Werewolf By Night #1 (JLH) 
Moon Knight v5 #1-6 (Joe) 
Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #1-12 (Chris) 
Nick Furys Howling Commandos #3-6 (Russ) 
Reading to the Rescue #4 
Sentinel v2 #1-5 (JD) 
Spider-Man Family #1-2 
Underworld #1-5 (Aaron) 

As always, analyses are greatly appreciated! 
_________________
Paul B.

Last edited by Paul Bourcier on 20 Apr 2007 06:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Apr 2007 06:45 am    
By JD

Paul Bourcier wrote: 
>>>
Sentinel v2 #1-5 (JD) 
<<<

I'll try to finally do those by your deadline, but I can't guarantee anything.

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Apr 2007 07:39 am    
By Somebody

Ant-Man #7's (a) the first of a two-parter and (b) waaay too tied-in to Mighty Avengers and Ms Marvel for me to attempt an analysis on when I'm not getting those books, BTW (since you had me down for it on another thread)...

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Apr 2007 06:19 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Hmm. Maybe since I get Mighty Avengers and Ms. Marvel anyway I should get these issues of Ant-Man since it looks like it will involve a panel by panel deconstruction. Thanks for the heads-up, Somebody.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Apr 2007 03:13 am    
By JLH

I won't be able to meet the deadline for the ones I'm signed up for. I'd thought I'd already missed it last week and didn't put an effort into getting to the store because of it. I'll have all the ones I owe before next weekend, though, since I'll be done with my Gap responsibilities in the next day. 

For the record, "Legion of Monsters: Man-Thing" has come out, and I should be listed for "Blade" 8. You can also put me down for all of "Spider-Man Family", doing all those Gap stories made me realize I have a far better grasp of Spidey's history than I gave myself credit.

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Apr 2007 07:25 am    
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Don't sweat it, JLH. And thanks for volunteering for more analyses. I'll make note of it in the May call.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 42

Posted: 21 Apr 2007 05:30 am    Post subject: Thor Corps 1-4 & Thor 474
By JLH

How to celebrate my last grasp at the last gasp of the Gap? By doing an added story missing from the MCP! 

------------------------------------ 
THOR CORPS #1 [Sept 1993] 
Written by: Tom DeFalco 
Illustrated by: Patrick Olliffe 
"A Gathering Of Heroes--!" 

Cast: 
THOR IV/DARGO KTOR 
DEMONSTAFF/HALLAN GORKO (also in FB) 
DUNBAR (also in FB) 
GORKO, ELLENE (also in FB) 
KTOR, SALLA 
BETA RAY BILL 
THUNDERSTRIKE/ERIC KEVIN MASTERSON 
MASTERSON, KEVIN 
KARGUL 
CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE 
HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
BUCKY/JAMES BUCHANAN "BUCKY" BARNES 
TORO/TOM RAYMOND 


Other characters: 
Raiders from the Dawn of Time 
Pair of people from Beta Ray's homeworld of Harmony 
Giant monster plant 


Summary: In the year 2593 AD, upon the North American Urban Center #5, Dargo Ktor, this era's wielder of Mjolnir and therefore Thor, finds himself facing fighting Raiders from the Dawn of Time in the lobby of Adcore! No, these cavemen aren't trying to stop the Geico ads, they've been summoned there by Demonstaff, Dargo's greatest enemy. What's the guy with the inter-dimensional power rod want there? He's after the Chief Operating Officer, named Dunbar, who used to be his boss! He gets a special piece of circuitry from Dunbar, claiming to be using it to go after Ellene. Before Demonstaff can kill his former boss, Dargo's cavemen foes return from whence in reality they came, and he's free to use the power of Thor to once again battle his staff-sporting nemesis. Demonstaff uses his weapon to cut through the fabric of reality and bring forth some monsters to keep Dargo busy while he escapes. By the time they vanish, he's long gone. Dunbar reveals to Dargo the secret origin of Demonstaff, scientist Hallan Gorko funded by Adcore to explore the nature of reality, such as alternate worlds and parallel realities. His ultimate experiment, attempting to open a dimension rift, left him severely injured when it malfunctioned. While he was hospitalized, his wife, fellow scientist Ellene, convinced Dunbar to let her try to complete her husband's work. So, Dunbar and Ellene worked together and succeeded in opening a rift, only to have Ellene fall through it! Once Gorko recovered, he confronted Dunbar in a rage, blaming him for the loss of his wife. Now, Demonstaff has the Dimensionizer, the one thing that can turn his temporary reality-tearing powers to a far greater threat! After seeking his enemy for a few hours, not to mention going to work, Dargo returns home and resumes his regular identity. He and his wife, Salla, enjoy a nice meal together, with him telling her the story of Demonstaff. Their warm embrace following the sad tale of a husband losing his wife is witnessed by Demonstaff, who is spying on the couple! The next day, Dargo goes to work, and when Salla departs following him, Demonstaff appears, capturing the woman and trashing the Ktor apartment. When Dargo returns, he finds a holographic message from Demonstaff, claiming that Dunbar was the one who sabtoaged the experiment so he could steal Ellene away from him. He also claims Adcore hired him so they could ultimately outdo all other ad agencies by controlling reality itself! So, now, for Dargo to get Salla back, he'll have to do Demonstaff's dirty work and track down Ellene, who is still lost amid dimensions. But since it'll be dangerous, the villain will be giving this time's Thor a little help from some old friends of his. First, Beta Ray Bill is pulled from the past, right as he's trying to save his homeworld of Harmony from a monsterous plant! Similarly, Eric Masterson is enjoying a day out with his son, Kevin. The boy eagerly rushes across a street after some ice cream, failing to see an approaching car! Eric lunges forth to save him, and is summoned to the out of time & space place known as Elsewhen, where he is greeted by Beta Ray Bill and Dargo, who is less than happy to see the human he thinks of as a slacker. Eric's less than pleased to see them in return, smashing his cane to the ground and turning into Thunderstrike, demanding to return to his time and world to save his son. Dargo argues with him, since he has his own loved one to save, and it's Beta Ray's calmer insistance that gets Eric to listen to Dargo's elaboration of the situation. Elsewhere within Elsewhen, Warlord Kargul and his apparent queen, Ellene, bear witness to the Thor Corps appearance in their reality. Kargul is aware Demonstaff has finally put into motion plans to recover his wife, so he uses his own control over reality to send the trio to another time and world, out of the way. The Thor Corps materialize in 1942, on Earth, coming face to face with the group called the Invaders, who see the three as spies attempting to sabotage a Destroyer! 


Flashbacks: Page 12 panel 4: Hallan Gorko as a scientist, doing some work. Panel 5: Gorko getting blown up. Panel 6: Dunbar and Ellene beside Gorko in a hospital bed. Page 13, panel 1: Dunbar and Ellene working together afterwards. Panel 2: Ellene getting lost in a dimensional rift as Dunbar looks on. Panel 3: Gorko confronting Dunbar. 

There's a later FB of Gorko, just pre-explosion, working while Dunbar sabotages him. This is later revealed to be false, just how he perceived the situation. 



Continuity notes: Beta Ray Bill just returned from aiding Lady Sif in finding Thor, a footnote saying "See Thor #461 and Silver Surfer #82". 

Thunderstrike mentions there's something about Bobby Steele that he can't stomach. This implies it's not during a lot of the active Steele storylines that run through Thunderstrike 2 onward, where he actually FINDS a reason to hate the roid-raging, friz-head. 

This isn't the first time Beta, Eric, and Dargo have met, from their own standpoints. Though, this is indeed the first time Dargo has met Eric in his Thunderstrike persona. I should mention, the name "Thunderstrike" is never once uttered throughout this entire mini-series. I thought maybe this could take place, Masterson-wise, between pages in Thunderstrike #1 (meaning this is prior to Eric publically debuting the new look, and therefore not even have picked his new name), but the scene with Kevin and Eric is clearly on a hot day, and Thunderstrike #1 is notably cold weather. 

For the record, they're never actually called the Thor Corps in this series. 



Goofs: Bucky's costume is pure white. Cap's chest star is colored blue. 


Calendar notes: Only Dargo's timeframe is mentioned: July 29, 2593 A.D. 



------------------------------------ 
THOR CORPS #2 [Oct 1993] 
Written by: Tom DeFalco 
Illustrated by: Patrick Olliffe 
"Gather CHAOS--!" 

Cast: 
THOR IV/DARGO KTOR 
BETA RAY BILL 
THUNDERSTRIKE/ERIC KEVIN MASTERSON 
CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE 
HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
BUCKY/JAMES BUCHANAN "BUCKY" BARNES 
TORO/TOM RAYMOND 
KARGUL 
GORKO, ELLENE 
DEMONSTAFF/HALLAN GORKO 
KTOR, SALLA 
DUNBAR (dies) 
MACHINE MAN/X-51 (2020) 
SWIFT (2020) 
BRAIN (2020) 
SLICK (2020) 
HASSLE (2020) 
IRON MAN/ARNO STARK (2020) 
PSI-LORD/FRANKLIN BENJAMIN RICHARDS 


Other characters: 
Ironbots 2020 
Shari (only one of Ellene's servants to be named) 


Summary: So, on a battleship Destroyer in a Brooklyn Navy Yard in 1942, the time-slipped Thor Corps is suddenly attacked by the WWII heroes known as the Invaders. Thunderstrike tries to avoid fighting with Captain America and Bucky, Beta Ray gets pounded by Namor, and Dargo is enflamed by Human Torch and Toro. While this is going on, outside of space and time, from the dimensional world called Elsewhen, Warlord Kargul views the Thor Corps' plight, alongside his beloved Ellene. Kargul finds Demonstaff's threatening and misuse of the Dimensionizer to be dangerous to all of reality. Demonstaff is aware of Kargul's claims, appearing within his imaging pool and taunts him in return, before splashing the waters in his face. In his own hideout in his own time, Demonstaff laughs at this setback that'll keep Kargul from viewing other dimensions for a while. He explains the situation to his captive, Salla Ktor, saying that he doesn't intend to control the Barrier Force that separates alternate dimensions, he just wants to unleash it all. Meanwhile, Dunbar rallies some armored troops to hunt down Demonstaff. Okay, so, back in the past, the Thor Corps regroups while losing to the Invaders, prompting Beta Ray to try to open a dimensional portal to return to Elsewhen with his mallet, Stormbringer, attempting to match the energy pattern that teleported them there. Concern over the possibility it could just leave them lost in an alternate dimension, they stall. Captain America tries to keep them from escaping, flinging his shield and knocking Thunderstrike into the portal! He ends up in the year 2020, in battle alongside Machine Man 2020 and his Midnight Wreckers, against a horde of Ironbots! Dodging the ray-blasts all around him, Eric soon faces Iron Man 2020, returning fire with a blast from his mace that knocks his foe for a loop. A portal opens up behind him, and Thunderstrike is pulled to a void outside the reality barrier by Beta Ray and Dargo. After a little in-team arguing, they notice fractures forming in the dimensional walls, signs of the boundaries between realities eroding. An armored figure suddenly attacks, thinking they're responsible! While his teammates hold off the attacker, Beta Ray opens another portal, and the trio slips away. The attacker finds their garb and speech patterns familiar to stories told to him about ancient Earth by his grandfather... the teenaged boy turning out to be Franklin Richards of the eventual Fantastic Force, long before he returned to modern times! Back on Earth in 2593, Dunbar hopes his Sanitation Squad succeeds, and makes remarks implying Adcore's evil schemes were all merely his idea. Demonstaff appears, and confronts his former boss once more, claiming not to be there to harm him, instead, to reward him! So, Thor Corps return to Elsewhen, just as Kargul is rallying his warriors against Demonstaff over his screwing up of reality. The trio manages to find the location of Ellene, and attempt to free her, only to discover she doesn't want to return to her husband! She joins her guards and servants in fighting off the Thor Corps with various laser-y weapons, and claims Demonstaff wants to kill her, as she flees the chamber. So, Warlord Kargul leads his demonic brethern into Earth in 2593, seeking out Demonstaff. It ends up both the Sanitation Squad and Kargul's troops reach a dazed Demonstaff at the same time, all basically killing him at once! Turns out, of course, it was Dunbar in the costume. The real Demonstaff is safely away, still with Salla as his prisoner. He reveals to her that his wife betrayed him, and he actually is intending on crashing down reality, much like his own crashed down when she helped Dunbar sabotage his experiment! Back in Elsewhen, the Thor Corps follows Ellene, only to end up each falling into a trap set by her, each a portal to a different location in time and space. 



Continuity notes: Human Torch claims the Thor Corps reminds him of "that Nordic God we once battled", a reference to Invaders 32 & 33. 

Beta Ray Bill mentions "recently" getting beat by Thor, a footnote mentioning Thor #461. 

The "world of Machine Man 2020" is called an "alternate world of the near future". Just in case you were concerned it's actually what things will be like in 13 years. 

The final page of the issue shows a brief preview of next issue, with cameos by Spider-Man 2099, the Guardians of the Galaxy, and the Western Trio. They don't match the exact story events of what happens next issue (showing each of the Thors popping in right in front of the characters), so this is just an out of context pin-up thing. 


Goofs: Page 15, panel 3's thought balloon for Dargo makes no sense at all. "And if not... what of my Salla... and Eric's Kevin?!", "Otherwise, it's the kids for my Salla... and Eric's Kevin!" What kids? Why did he repeat the same thought in a different context twice in a row? 


Calendar notes: The Dargo-world stuff takes place on August 1, 2593 A.D. 


------------------------------------ 
THOR CORPS #3 [Nov 1993] 
Written by: Tom DeFalco 
Penciled by: Patrick Olliffe 
Inked by: Romeo Tanghal 
"Ravaged By Reality!" 

Cast: 
DEMONSTAFF/HALLAN GORKO (also as his younger self) 
KTOR, SALLA 
BETA RAY BILL 
MAJOR VICTORY/VANCE ASTROVIK/"VANCE ASTRO" (GOTG) 
TALON (GOTG) 
NIKKI (GOTG) 
CHARLIE 27 (GOTG) 
YELLOWJACKET II/RITA DEMARA 
ALETA (GOTG) 
SPIDER-MAN/MIGUEL O'HARA (2099) 
THOR IV/DARGO KTOR 
GORKO, ELLENE (as her younger self only) 
DUNBAR (as his younger self only) 
KID COLT/BLAINE COLT 
TWO-GUN KID/MATTHEW J. LIEBOWICZ/"MATT HAWK"/"CLAY HARDER" 
RAWHIDE KID/JOHNNY BART 
THUNDERSTRIKE/ERIC KEVIN MASTERSON 
ETERNITY/ADAM QADMON 
PHANTOM EAGLE/KARL KAUFMAN 
ANGEL III/WARREN KENNETH WORTHINGTON III 
BEAST/HENRY "HANK" P. MCCOY 
ICEMAN/ROBERT "BOBBY" DRAKE 
CYCLOPS II/SCOTT SUMMERS 
MARVEL GIRL/JEAN GREY SUMMERS 
PROFESSOR X/CHARLES FRANCIS XAVIER 
THOR/"DR. DONALD BLAKE"/"SIGURD JARLSON II"/"JAKE OLSON"/"LOREN OLSON" 


Other characters: 
Barker Brothers (Zeb and Ike) 
Conan (or a reasonible facsmilie) 
Astronaut 
Medievel knight 
Roman Centurions 


Summary: Demonstaff shows off his new mastery of his Dimensionizer-equipped staff by altering reality at a whim around himself and Salla. Several scenic and woredrobe changes later, Salla finally hits him where it hurts, by pointing out he's heartbroken and if he was so powerful, he'd find a way to win back Ellene. Her claims of getting a second chance by making the past right cause Demonstaff to become intrigued, so much that he takes off to try it! Meanwhile, in the 31st Century, Beta Ray Bill finds where Ellene sent him to be a spaceship. He's suddenly attacked by the Guardians of the Galaxy, thinking him a stowaway! Major Victory holds him while a Psi-Blast, while Charlie-27 smashes him down. Beta fights back by smashing his mallet to the ground, and as Nikki and Yellowjacket strike, Aleta breaks up the fight, using her position of One Who Knows to declare the intruder means no harm. Meantime, New York City in the year 2099, the era's Spider-Man hides from the Public Eye, when he notices the arrival of Dargo in an alleyway. Thinking him to be a fanatical Thorite, like those he's encountered recently, Spidey strikes, leading to a combination brawl/query, with Dargo trying to learn if the Thor seen in this time period is one of his teammates. Upon learning it isn't, Dargo opens up a dimensional portal and departs, leaving Spidey especially confused. Meanwhen, in the Wild West period of North America, Thunderstrike appears, and gets into the part of a cowboy, something he always wanted to do, by stopping the Barker Brothers from holding up a stagecoach! Despite roundin' up them varmints, he's confronted by a trio that had planned on stopping the pair of crooks themselves: western legends Two-Gun Kid, Rawhide Kid, and Kid Colt! Elsewhere in time, Demonstaff uses his weapon to appear on the scene some years or so past, at the time of his accident. He spots Dunbar and Ellene, seemingly sabotaging the experiment. He tries to stop them by killing Dunbar, only to miss and blast the experimental device, causing the explosion that put him in the hospital! Upon returning to the dimensional spot where Salla is held, Demonstaff returns, feeling dejected in failing. But then he realizes he may have just ended up in a parallel world and injured an alternate earlier self, he gets all the more frustrated. Taking Salla to the void between dimensions, he sets about his plan to destroy all reality from the one place it can be done. Salla pleads for him not to, until he shows her what's under his mask, what the accident did to his face... the costume is all that's holding together the swirling cosmic mass of energy and particles that makes up his body! Since he was ravaged by reality, he's doing the same to reality in turn. Slashing at the barrier of reality, causing Etenity, the sentient lifeforce of the universe, to shudder in metaphysical pain! Now, modern day jetfighters start flanking German biplanes circa WWI, a Hyborian barbarian faces a misplaced astronaut, the original roster of the X-Men find a timelost knight in the middle of their mansion. Even in the future, Roman Centurions claiming land for Caesar appear in the spaceship of the Guardians of the Galaxy! Aware that the end of reality is starting as time, space, and dimensions blur, Beta Ray Bill opens up a portal and departs to seek his teammates. In the wild west, Thunderstrike and the gunfighter trio flee on horseback from a stampeding horde of dinosaurs! Upon noticing a portal in the sky, Eric flings his mace at it and holds on for the ride, hoping it'll lead him home. Close enough, as he rejoins Dargo and Beta Ray, already within the void between dimensions. Well, I should note, it's not really a void, more like a crossroads of sort. Void implies just a big old lot of blackness. With the distinction between time and space beclouded by the crumbling of reality, the Thor Corps brings together their mace, hammer, and mallet, drawing together their powers to summon the greatest warrior of all. Since Asgardians are immortal, and have lived for centuries, hope is they'll draw him from a time when he wasn't a mad god. Indeed, they succeed, bringing the Mighty Thor from a point when he's just as noble as ever! He's happy to see his friends Eric and Bill, and Dargo, meeting his predescessor for the first time, kneels in honor. Thor urges him to rise, since all who have ever held Mjolnir are equals. Reenvigorated by the addition of their inspiration, the Thor Corps join together, ready to take on whatever needs takin' on! 


Flashback: Page 6, panel 1: Young Hallan Gorko giving a rose to Ellene. Panel 2 shows Gorko working on the experiment, while Dunbar and Ellene lurk nearby. 


Continuity notes: Charlie-27 is bald. Major Victory is in his typical Cap-gear. I don't know what else to say about the Guardians, given their lack of MCP listings. Yellowjacket thinks she recognizes Beta Ray Bill, and Nikki mentions he is dressed like those Asgardians they "recently encountered". It's the 31st Century by this point. 

Spider-Man 2099 mentions stopping Fenris, which was followed by someone claiming to be Thor showing up, which footnotes to Spider-Man 2099 #15. 

Two-Gun Kid doesn't seem to be familiar with the Thor-esque Thunderstrike, meaning this is likely before his time with the Avengers. 

The X-Men appear in their original yellow and dark blue uniforms. Iceman is snowy. Prof X is in his old style wheelchair. You guys already have this placed in the MCP. 

Thunderstrike is aware that Thor's been "acting kind of wacko lately", putting his placement before Thunderstrike 10, when he came face to face with the non-crazy Thor. 

The Thor plucked from time recognizes Thunderstrike as being his "brother-in-arms" Eric, and of course, he knows Beta Ray Bill. This is the first time he's met Dargo. His costume is the classic standard, meaning this must be prior to Thor 475. Since he's mad from 460-471, and going through a bit of a personal crisis in 472-475, I'd probably stick this the during his downtime within 475 (where that one story in the annual also takes place). 

There's a Star Wars themed reality-shift on page 2, panel 3, which has Salla as Princess Leia and Demonstaff as Darth Vader. I guess even several hundred years in the future, the original trilogy is still popular. 


Calendar notes: Only date mentions is September 7, 1916 for Karl Kaufman's flight. 


------------------------------------ 
THOR CORPS #4 [Dec 1993] 
Written by: Tom DeFalco 
Penciled by: Patrick Olliffe 
Inked by: Romeo Tanghal 
"What I Did For LOVE!" 

Cast: 
KARGUL 
GORKO, ELLENE (also in FB) 
BETA RAY BILL 
THOR IV/DARGO KTOR 
THUNDERSTRIKE/ERIC KEVIN MASTERSON 
THOR/"DR. DONALD BLAKE"/"SIGURD JARLSON II"/"JAKE OLSON"/"LOREN OLSON" 
DEMONSTAFF/HALLAN GORKO (also in FB) 
KTOR, SALLA 
DUNBAR (FB only) 
PSI-LORD/FRANKLIN BENJAMIN RICHARDS (FB only) 
MASTERSON, KEVIN 


Other characters: 
Giant monster plant (dies, I suppose) 


Summary: Warlord Kargul and Ellene watch in horror in the Imaging Pool in Elsewhen, seeing such things as dinosaurs and biplanes in the 31st Century, all proof of reality collaping in on itself. Thor and the Thor Corps arrive, requesting Kargul's assistance in finding Demonstaff. Speaking of whom, Demonstaff gets caught up in slashing down the fabric separating dimensions, finally causing Salla to lash out at him for so casually killing so many. She breaks down and begs to do anything to save her husband, which brings pause to the man once known as Hallan Gorko, though only for a moment before he backhands her and scoffs at love, which, if reality is so fragile, can't have true substance. Back at Elsewhen, Ellene reveals the true account of what happened to create Demonstaff. Hallan cut her out of his life to focus on his work. She discovered Dunbar fooling with the power conduit on her husband's experiment, and tried to warn him, only to have the device explode in front of him. Despite the accident turning him into something no longer human, she still loved him, and did her best to find a cure by continuing his interdimensional research. But once she was sucked into the rift, she drifted for an unknown number of days or weeks, and was eventually rescued by Psi-Lord from the great void, brought to Elsewhen. Kargul offered to return her to her home, but it took so long to sort through the alternate realities, by the time she did it, Hallan had already decided she'd betrayed him. The Thor Corps finds yet another perspective to the story jarring. Demonstaff appears, requesting Dargo come with him. Though Thor and Beta Ray try to defend him, Thunderstrike reiterates that if it were his son captive of the villain, he'd go. Finally seeing things eye to eye with Eric, Dargo makes his choice and powers down to his civilian form, having Thor hold onto the walking stick while he goes with Demonstaff. Once in another dimension, Demonstaff claims he's brought him to trade for Salla, since he's grown attached to her. First, Dargo is offered near endless wealth, which he refuses. Then he's given his own barbarian horde to call his own. He refuses. Finally, he's given dozens of beautiful women who will remain perfect forever, and want only to please him. He refuses again. So, Demonstaff bends reality once last time, turning the women into a pool of green muck. As Dargo drowns, he refuses to give in and die, as long as Salla remains captive. This stuns Demonstaff, who rids the muck and reunites Salla with Dargo... but plans on killing one of them, with Dargo given the chance to decide which one will die! Suddenly, Thor, Eric, and Bill arrive in the dimension, tracking them there by way of Mjolnir. Dargo is tossed his cane, he resumes his role of Thor, and while Salla falls back to safety, the Thor Corps confront Demonstaff. The villain summons up an army of various irate creatures from various dimensions to face them. While Thor clears a path to Demonstaff, Beta Ray Bill takes the cue to toss Stormbringer at the enemy. Demonstaff's demon staff is shattered, causing the monsters to return to their home dimensions. With the reality barrier about to fold completely, Thor leads his comrades in joining mallets to summon the enchanted forces within and release energies comparable to the barrier, helping to bolster the sagging boundaries of reality! Kargul believes they won't be able to succeed, thus, Ellene leaps into the Imaging Pool and appears in the void alongside Demonstaff. She urges him to help stop the destruction of reality, though he doesn't want to listen to her. She reminds him that he drove her away with his indifference, and it gets to him. Ellene also explains the Dimensionizer never worked, hence why Dunbar didn't use it. The reality warping powers were within Hallan since the accident, the staff was just a tool to harness the energies. Ellene offers her life as sacrifice if he'll just save reality. He still doesn't trust her claims, but he admits he still loves her, and does what needs to be done. Demonstaff attempts to atone for his foolish crimes against the myriad dimensions by unleashing the energies that make up his body, adding them to those of the Thor Corps! Almost instantly, Eric Masterson is back at the same moment in time he left, saving his son Kevin from getting hit by a car. Similarly, Beta Ray Bill is back on Harmony, putting a stop to the giant monster plant with a sizzle of lightning. Both he and Eric are confused by what happened, even questioning if it even occured. But in 2593, Dargo and Salla, reunited safely at last, confirm it did happen, considering how stunned the slackers on the streets are at having encountered dinosaurs and biplanes! Back in their apartment again, Dargo figures Demonstaff's powers got reality back on line, but is sure some alternate worlds may have sustained more damage than others. Salla wonders what happened to Ellene and Demonstaff, whom she doesn't believe was inherently evil. Dargo figures they may never know. 

At that moment, in a trackless void of nothingness, Demonstaff is banished for eternity by Warlord Kargul for his crimes. A befitting sentence, living in a place without reality for trying to end reality. But, since he's not all bad, Kargul allows Ellene what she desires most, to join her husband in the banishment. Demonstaff argues she doesn't deserve to be punished, but she feels losing him again would be a greater punishment. Kargul departs, and as he does, Ellene pulls off Hallan's mask. The release of the energies restored him to humanity at last! Despite this, he urges her to forget him, but bringing up his claims of life, love, truth, and reality all being forms of madness, and having failed in attempting to control reality, she's decided to just enjoy it while she can. They cryingly kiss, and remain together forever. And I betcha five minutes later, she's sick of him and leaves. 


Flashback: Page 6, panel 3: Ellene approaches Hallan. Panel 4: Same as issue 3 panel 2, but with dialogue. Ellene with Dunbar and Gorko working nearby. Panel 5: Gorko exploding. Page 7 panel 1: Gorko in the hospital bed while Ellene is in the hall beside a doctor. Panel 2: Ellene floating through dimensional space. Panel 3: Ellene rescued by Psi-Lord. 

Continuity notes: I spent too much time on the summary, didn't I? 


------------------------------------ 
THE MIGHTY THOR VOL 1 #474 [May 1994] 
Writer: Roy Thomas 
Penciler: Sandu Florea 
Inker: Bob Petrecca 
"When Mountains Walked!" 

Cast: 
THOR/"DR. DONALD BLAKE"/"SIGURD JARLSON II"/"JAKE OLSON"/"LOREN OLSON" (also in FB) 
HONIR (FB only; called HOENIR here) 
VOLSTAGG (FB only) 
SIF (FB only) 
FANDRAL (FB only) 
BALDER (FB only) 
HERMOD (FB and FB-within-FB only) 
HEIMDALL (FB only) 
JINNI (FB only) 
OGUR (FB only) 
MUTARUS (FB and FB-within-FB only) 
LOKI (FB only) 
MOGUL (FB and FB-within-FB only) 
ABU DAKIR (FB only) 
SHEZADA (FB and FB-within-FB only) 
ALIBAR (FB and FB-within-FB only) 
HOGUN (FB and FB-within-FB only) 
HIGH EVOLUTIONARY/HERBERT EDGAR WYNDHAM 
BLITZIANA 
LOGA II 
LUMINOR 


Other characters: 
Various other Asgardians that don't get named (FB only) 
40 Demon-Riders (FB only) 
Sleipnir (FB only, 8 legged horse of Odin's) 


Summary: Thor, now hanging out with the High Evolutionary and his Godlings, idly thinks back on less stressful times. 


Flashback: Years ago, on Asgard, Thor had a friendly bar-room brawl with Volstagg, which the obese one ended up winning for the first time ever! Suddenly, Hermod staggered in, severely injured. Before passing out, he told Thor the one who did it to him was his old foe, Mongul! Within moments, Heimdall alerted all of Mogul's magical flying mountain fortress was approaching, bringing with it the giant monsters Jinni, Ogur, and Mutarus, as well as the evil hordes of the Demon-Riders. With Odin asleep, Thor instead led the amassed Asgardians against the invaders. Within the mountain, fellow Asgardian, Hogun, was captive alongside Prince Alibar, the replacement ruler while Mogul was away. Once the Asgardians stormed the place (called Zandu), Alibar revealed a simple lamp in the palace was actually that of Alaeddin. Thor used it against Mongul, and he ended up locked away once more. Zandu, once more ruled by Alibar, returned to its realm. Did I mention Mongul had a technological flying carpet? 

Flashback-within-the-flashback: Alibar running the kingdom now that Mogul is in the staff. He romanced up Shezada, and eventually she tricked him, freeing Mogul! Hogun and Hermod ended up captured alongside him, though, as we saw, Hermod slipped out afterwards. 


Continuity notes: Mogul is said to be dead, having been killed by Thor in 137-145. The amount of time since then isn't even remotely hinted at. 

Odin is in his Odinsleep. 


Goofs: Shezada is called "Sherzada"(sic) in one whole narrative box. 

Heimdall's beard turns white for a panel in the middle of the book. 


------------------------------------ 

Thanks to Col_Fury for the Invaders placement. 



THOR IV/DARGO KTOR 
(added last name) 
... 
T 441 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 
**TCORPS 3 
**TCORPS 4 

KTOR, SALLA 
... 
T 438 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 
**TCORPS 3 
**TCORPS 4 


DEMONSTAFF/HALLAN GORKO 
**TCORPS 3-FB (6:1) 
**TCORPS 1-FB (12:4) 
**TCORPS 4-FB (6:3) 
**TCORPS 4-FB (6:4) ~ TCORPS 3 (13:1-13:2) 
**TCORPS 1-FB (12:5) ~ TCORPS 3 (13:3) 
**TCORPS 3 (13:4) 
**TCORPS 1-FB (12:6) 
**TCORPS 4-FB (7:1) 
**TCORPS 1-FB (13:3) 
{T 440} 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 
**TCORPS 3 
**TCORPS 3 (13:1-13:2) ~ TCORPS 4-FB (6:4) BTS 
**TCORPS 3 (13:3) ~ TCORPS 1-FB (12:5) BTS 
**TCORPS 3 
**TCORPS 4 

**GORKO, ELLENE 
TCORPS 3-FB (6:1) 
TCORPS 4-FB (6:3) 
TCORPS 4-FB (6:4) ~ TCORPS 3 (13:1-13:2) 
TCORPS 3 (13:3) 
TCORPS 1-FB (12:6) 
TCORPS 4-FB (7:1) 
TCORPS 1-FB (13:1) 
TCORPS 1-FB (13:2) 
TCORPS 4-FB (7:2-7:3) 
{TCORPS 1} 
TCORPS 2 
TCORPS 4 

**DUNBAR 
TCORPS 4-FB (6:4) ~ TCORPS 3 (13:1-13:2) 
TCORPS 3 (13:3) 
TCORPS 1-FB (12:6-13:3) 
{TCORPS 1} 
TCORPS 2 

BETA RAY BILL 
... 
SS3 82 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 
**TCORPS 3 
**TCORPS 4 
T@ 18/3 
... 

THUNDERSTRIKE/ERIC KEVIN MASTERSON 
... 
Q 48 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 
**TCORPS 3 
**TCORPS 4 
TS 2 
... 

MASTERSON, KEVIN 
... 
TS 1 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 4 
TS 2 
... 

KARGUL 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 
**TCORPS 3 
**TCORPS 4 
FF 390 
... 

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
... 
MARVELS 1 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 (1942) 
CA '98-FB 
... 

BUCKY/JAMES BUCHANAN BUCKY BARNES 
... 
MARVELS 1 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 (1942) 
CA '98-FB 
... 

SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE 
... 
MARVELS 1 pg44-pg45 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 (1942) 
CA:SL2 2-FB 
... 

HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
... 
MARVELS 1 pg44-pg45 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 (1942) 
CA:SL2 2-FB 
... 

TORO/TOM RAYMOND 
... 
MARVELS 1 
**TCORPS 1 
**TCORPS 2 (1942) 
CA5 5-FB (11/42) 
... 

PSI-LORD/FRANKLIN BENJAMIN RICHARDS 
FF 390-FB 
**TCORPS 4-FB 
**TCORPS 2 
{FF 376} 
... 

IRON MAN/ARNO STARK (2020) 
MACHINE MAN/X-51 (2020) 
SWIFT (2020) 
BRAIN (2020) 
SLICK (2020) 
HASSLE (2020) 
All of their previous appearances are absent from the MCP. Thus, their TCORPS 2 appearance should be left to placement to whomever does analysis of those issues. 

SPIDER-MAN/MIGUEL O'HARA (2099) 
(added last name) 
[Spider-Man 2099 15] 
**TCORPS 3 
[Spider-Man 2099 16] 
The specifics of the placement, once again, should go to the analyzer of the series. 


MAJOR VICTORY/VANCE ASTROVIK/"VANCE ASTRO" (GOTG) 
TALON (GOTG) 
NIKKI (GOTG) 
CHARLIE 27 (GOTG) 
YELLOWJACKET II/RITA DEMARA 
ALETA (GOTG) 
Really is a shame that, among all the alternate universe characters and such, the Guardians of the Galaxy are completely missing from the MCP. They're easily the most oft-used of any of them. Perhaps the 2020 guys, the GOTG figures, the New Universe, and the 2099 stuff could be the next big thing to tackle now that the Gap is effectively dead? 

KID COLT/BLAINE COLT 
(added real name) 
KID COLT OUTLAW 201 
**TCORPS 3 
A 141-BTS 
... 

TWO-GUN KID/MATTHEW J. LIEBOWICZ/"MATT HAWK"/"CLAY HARDER" 
KID COLT OUTLAW 141 
**TCORPS 3 
A 141-BTS 
... 

RAWHIDE KID/JOHNNY BART 
KID COLT OUTLAW 201 
**TCORPS 3 
A 141-BTS 
... 

NIGHT RIDER/CARTER SLADE 
... 
A 143 
(THOR CORPS 3)-REMOVE (he does not appear!) 
WESTERN GUNFIGHTERS 6 
... 

ETERNITY/ADAM QADMON 
... 
FF@ 27/2 
**TCORPS 3 
M/HOL 1994/4 
... 

PHANTOM EAGLE/KARL KAUFMAN 
**TCORPS 3 
M/SH 16-FB 
{M/SH 16} 
... 

ANGEL III/WARREN KENNETH WORTHINGTON III 
BEAST/HENRY "HANK" P. MCCOY 
ICEMAN/ROBERT "BOBBY" DRAKE 
CYCLOPS II/SCOTT SUMMERS 
MARVEL GIRL/JEAN GREY SUMMERS 
PROFESSOR X/CHARLES FRANCIS XAVIER 
For these six, just replace "THOR CORPS 3" with the appropriate new keyword, be it TCORPS 3 or whatever. 

THOR/"DR. DONALD BLAKE"/"SIGURD JARLSON II"/"JAKE OLSON"/"LOREN OLSON" [ASGARDIAN] 
... 
BP3 47 
**T 474-FB 
INV 32 
... 
T 473 
**T 474 
T@ 19 
T 475 
T@ 19/2 
**TCORPS 3 
**TCORPS 4 
T 475 
T 476 
... 

VOLSTAGG [ASGARDIAN] 
... 
T 323 
**T 474-FB 
M/:LG 5 
... 

SIF [ASGARDIAN] 
... 
T@ 14/4 
**T 474-FB 
JIM -1 
... 

FANDRAL [ASGARDIAN] 
... 
T 323 
**T 474-FB 
T 410/2 
... 

BALDER [ASGARDIAN] 
... 
RAVEN BANNER 
**T 474-FB 
JIM -1 
... 

HERMOD [ASGARDIAN] 
**T 474-FB-FB 
T 474-FB 
{T 275} 
... 

HEIMDALL [ASGARDIAN] 
... 
T 128/2-BTS 
**T 474-FB 
JIM -1 
... 

LOKI [ASGARDIAN] 
... 
BP3 47 
**T 474-FB 
VENUS 6 
... 

HOGUN [ASGARDIAN] 
... 
T 323 
**T 474-FB 
M/:LG 5 
... 

MOGUL 
... 
T 145/2 
**T 474-FB-FB 
**T 474-FB 

ALIBAR 
... 
T 145/2 
**T 474-FB-FB 
**T 474-FB 

**SHEZADA 
T 143/2 
T 474-FB-FB 
{T 474-FB} 

ABU DAKIR 
T 139/2 
**T 474-FB 

MUTAURUS 
T 143/2 
**T 474-FB-FB 
**T 474-FB 
A3 1 

OGUR 
T 138/2 
**T 474-FB 
TB 9 

JINNI 
... 
T 140/2 
**T 474-FB 

HONIR 
JIM 106/2 
JIM 113 
**T 474-FB 

HIGH EVOLUTIONARY/HERBERT EDGAR WYNDHAM 
... 
T 473 
**T 474 
T 475 
... 

BLITZIANA 
... 
T 473 
**T 474 
T 475 
... 

LOGA II 
... 
T 473 
**T 474 
T 475 
... 

LUMINOR 
... 
T 473 
**T 474 
T 475 
...

Last edited by JLH on 21 Apr 2007 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Apr 2007 10:39 am    
By jephyork
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Charlie-27 is bald. Major Victory is in his typical Cap-gear. I don't know what else to say about the Guardians, given their lack of MCP listings. Yellowjacket thinks she recognizes Beta Ray Bill, and Nikki mentions he is dressed like those Asgardians they "recently encountered". 
<<<

The Guardians encountered the 31st-century Asgardians in GOTG #41-43. Major Victory's costume changed in #46. And I don't have all the issues in the interim, but I think Aleta gets temporarily taken out of the picture in #45 or the end of #44. Which leaves a pretty slim window for placement...  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Apr 2007 11:05 am    
By Enda80

Karl Kaufman is the Phantom Eagle. 
Conan appears in a panel that mentions Hyboria. 

"There's a Star Wars themed reality-shift on page 2, panel 3, which has Salla as Princess Leia and Demonstaff as Darth Vader. I guess even several hundred years in the future, the original trilogy is still popular." 
Perhaps distorted memories of Doctor Doom and Dejah Thoris inspired this? 

Dagor Ktor in #3 recalls the Human Torch, his teammates "the Grimm, Mister Elastic, and the Invisible Witch".

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Apr 2007 11:14 pm    
By wolframbane

QUOTE: Continuity notes: Human Torch claims the Thor Corps reminds him of "that Nordic God we once battled", a reference to Invaders 32 & 33. 

Didn't Thor remove the Invader's memoies of their encounter in Invaders #33 before he departed?[/code]

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Apr 2007 11:16 pm    
By JLH

Col reasoned it was because Torch is an android he didn't forget. Works for me.

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Apr 2007 11:18 pm    
By Col_Fury

wolframbane wrote: 
>>>
Didn't Thor remove the Invader's memories of their encounter in Invaders #33 before he departed? 
<<<

Yup. However, Jim 'the Human Torch' Hammond was an android; his brain works different than human brains.  

That's the theory I'm running with, anyway. 

-edit- 

Dammit, JLH! 
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Apr 2007 11:21 pm    
By JLH

Enda80 wrote: 
>>>
Karl Kaufman is the Phantom Eagle. 
<<<

Thanks, I knew he was someone, I just forgot to search harder than merely checking the K page. 


Quote: 
>>>
Conan appears in a panel that mentions Hyboria. 
<<<

Uhh, I mentioned him. He's not specifically called Conan, so there was intentional wiggle room in the panels to curb legal issues. 


Quote: 
>>>
Dagor Ktor in #3 recalls the Human Torch, his teammates "the Grimm, Mister Elastic, and the Invisible Witch". 
<<<

That's issue 2, actually. No Torch in 3 to bring up such a fractured recollection of facts.

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Apr 2007 04:55 am    
By Enda80

Jim Hammond also recalled the Battle with Thor in The Saga of the Original Human Torch series, which was presented as his reminscences. Actually, plenty of people besides the Invaders saw Thor in that storyline-Baron Strucker (per Marel Universe#1-3, where he recalls it), Doctor Doom (time-travelling), Stalin, so just erasing the Invaders memories would not have helped.

			*	*	*

Thread 43

Posted: 28 Apr 2006 01:51 pm    Post subject: Cable & Deadpool #19 -- the flashbacks!
By jephyork
Director

Cable & Deadpool #19 

This issue has flashbacks from both characters pasts  traumatic experiences that occurred around their 17th birthdays. Cable and Deadpool initially tell each other abbreviated versions of their stories  and as the issue closes, the readers are shown the full scope of both events. So the flashbacks arent quite linear, and require a bit of analysis to properly order them into the MCP. 

Heres Cables story first, placed in chronological order. When numbering pages, I dont count the recap page. 

-------- 

pp.1-2 (spread) panel 1  p.3 panel 1  a young Cable and company, having discovered that the enemy Canaanite forces have mined many of his soldiers with explosive nannites, begin an assault on the naval base where the bombs are manufactured. 

p.9 panel 2  p.10 panel 2  Cable and his unnamed friend (identified by a blue doo-rag) fight their way inside the base. 

p.12 panels 2-5  reaching the control room, Cable sees on a monitor that one of the men in his own regiment is mined! 

p.15 panels 1-3, 5 (or 2-4, 6, depending if you interpret the first panel as one panel or two)  Cable destroys the computer banks. 

p.19 panel 5  p.20 panel 1  an enemy scientist, holding a portable device, discovers that the mined man is Cables friend! The friend panics and runs off, and Cable grabs the portable device and chases after him. 

p.4 panel 3  Cable chases his friend down a hallway. This panel is reproduced later as p.20 panel 2. 

p.4 panels 4-5  more running, and a close-up of the detonator. These are similar, but not identical, to p.20 panels 4-5. 

p.20 panels 3-6  as the friend comes within sight of the rest of his regiment, young Cable realizes that hell kill them all if he explodes when he reaches them. Shedding a tear, he uses the portable device and detonates his friends explosives. 

p.4 panel 6  Cable is blown back by the explosion. This panel is reproduced later as p.20 panel 7. 

p.21 panel 1  Cables friends doo-rag burns. 

p.4 panel 7  Cable stares, in shock and covered in blood. This panel is reproduced later as p.21 panel 2. 

-------- 

In the interest of MCP space-saving, we only detail panel ranges when were inserting one scene between panels of another, or when theres more than one flashback on the page and we need to differentiate. We dont need to detail panel ranges when, for example, a flashback is interweaved with present-day events. (In this instance, that means that although the FB on p.15 is interrupted by a present-day panel, we can still list it just as FB, p.15  people will know what we mean.) 

However, since Cables flashbacks on pp.1-19 are interrupted by Deadpools flashbacks on pp.5-8, 11, 13, 17 and 19 panels 1-2, we cant just list Cables FB story as FB, pp.1-19  although we dont need to detail the panel ranges, we do need to detail which pages were referring to. 

Now, another MCP rule is that if a later flashback exactly reproduces an earlier scene, we dont bother listing the later FB. However, that rule applies to FBs published in later issues  Im not sure what the MCP policy is on a FB thats shown twice, identically, in the same issue. Do we only list the first panel it appears in? Do we list them both and use a ~ notation? 

Here are two versions of Cables FB chronology for this issue  one listing just the first version of each duplicated FB, and one using the ~ notation. 

C&D 19-FB (1-3) 
C&D 19-FB (9-10) 
C&D 19-FB (12) 
C&D 19-FB (15) 
C&D 19-FB (19p5-20p1) 
C&D 19-FB (4p3-4p5) 
C&D 19-FB (20p3-20p6) 
C&D 19-FB (4p6) 
C&D 19-FB (21p1)-BTS 
C&D 19-FB (4p7) 

Or: 

C&D 19-FB (1-3) 
C&D 19-FB (9-10) 
C&D 19-FB (12) 
C&D 19-FB (15) 
C&D 19-FB (19p5-20p1) 
C&D 19-FB (4p3 ~ 20p2) 
C&D 19-FB (4p4-4p5) 
C&D 19-FB (20p3-20p6) 
C&D 19-FB (4p6 ~ 20p7) 
C&D 19-FB (21p1)-BTS 
C&D 19-FB (4p7 ~ 21p2) 


Now, whats that BTS on p.21, panel 1? Well, that panel is a close-up of Cables friends burning doo-rag, and it definitely occurs between p.4 panels 6-7  but does Cable need to be credited for appearing there? 

I say, yes  p.4 panel 7 makes it clear that hes staring at whats left of his friend, and this panel shows us specifically what hes looking at. I think that qualifies him for a BTS in this panel. 

However, if we ultimately decide to remove it, there may still be a way to give it credit. Heres both versions of Cables listing again, minus the BTS panel: 

C&D 19-FB (1-3) 
C&D 19-FB (9-10) 
C&D 19-FB (12) 
C&D 19-FB (15) 
C&D 19-FB (19p5-20p1) 
C&D 19-FB (4p3-4p5) 
C&D 19-FB (20p3-20p6) 
C&D 19-FB (4p6-4p7) 

Or: 

C&D 19-FB (1-3) 
C&D 19-FB (9-10) 
C&D 19-FB (12) 
C&D 19-FB (15) 
C&D 19-FB (19p5-20p1) 
C&D 19-FB (4p3 ~ 20p2) 
C&D 19-FB (4p4-4p5) 
C&D 19-FB (20p3-20p6) 
C&D 19-FB (4p6 ~ 20p7) 
C&D 19-FB (4p7 ~ 21p2) 

Note that the end of this version specifically lists which exact panels reproduce which earlier panels  and it skips p.21 panel 1, the burning doo-rag panel. However, if we wanted to just list which range of panels reproduced which earlier range, we could list the end of this version like so: 

 
C&D 19-FB (20p3-20p6) 
C&D 19-FB (4p6-4p7 ~ 20p7-21p2) 

Doing it this way  telling MCP readers that p.20 panel 7 through p.21 panel 2 is the same sequence as p.4 panels 6-7  allows us to tacitly include p.21 panel 1 in a Cable appearance, without making an explicit determination as to whether or not it constitutes an actual BTS. 

So, there you are  the usual long-winded Jeph nonsense, and five versions of Cables listing for this issue. Pick your favorite. I like the second or the fifth, personally. 

-------- 

Now, on to the Deadpool flashbacks. 

Deadpools story is notable because some of his flashback panels are actually false. We are shown his father lying dead on the floor four times  and each time, the panel is slightly different. In the first two panels (p.6 panel 2 and p.7 panel 1), his father is wearing regular clothes. We later see that his father was wearing his military uniform when he died  so the two panels where hes shown without it are false flashbacks. They can be discarded. 

However, the third panel of his fathers dead body is more difficult to discard. The only difference between it (p.14 panel 2) and the final version (p.19 panel 2) is that young Deadpool is missing  in the final version, he is kneeling over his fathers body, grieving. Now, the panel without young Deadpool could be another false flashback  certainly it was meant to give the reader the impression that Deadpool himself had killed his father  or it could simply occur immediately before he falls to his knees. This could be a true flashback after all, with young Deadpool standing just outside the panel border about to collapse. 

I, personally, consider it to be real  and this one is a little easier to consider a BTS than Cables burning doo-rag, since Deadpool is obviously standing right off-panel. But if we eventually decide that its not a true flashback, Ive included a version of Deadpools listing below without that panel. 

-------- 

p.8 panel 1, 3-5  five-year-old Deadpools mother dies, and this causes him to begin acting out  by the time hes a teenager, hes become quite a hoodlum. 

p.5 panels 2-5  Deadpools 17th birthday. His father beats him in a drunken rage. Yep, thats right, page five occurs after page eight. 

p.11 panels 1-4  young Deadpool is at a pool hall raising hell, and his father shows up (in his military uniform) to bring him home. 

p.13 panel 5  p.14 panel 1  a hand grabs a beer bottle and smashes it on Deadpools fathers head. 

p.17 panel 5  p.19 panel 1  We see that one of Deadpools friends has smashed the bottle, and the friend grabs Deadpools fathers gun from its holster. Deadpool tries to stop him, but his friend fires the gun  hitting his father square in the chest. 

p.14 panel 2  Deadpools father lies dead on the floor, the friend holding the smoking gun above him. I consider young Deadpool to be standing just off-panel, staring in horror. 

p.19 panel 2  almost exactly the same panel as above, but young Deadpool has fallen to his knees over his fathers body. 

-------- 

Again, we dont need to list most of the panel ranges, but do need to separate out the page ranges, since Cables flashbacks interrupt Deadpools. That leaves us with two versions of Deadpools listing. My preference: 

C&D 19-FB (8) 
C&D 19-FB (5) 
C&D 19-FB (11) 
C&D 19-FB (13p5-14p1) 
C&D 19-FB (17p5-19p1) 
C&D 19-FB (14p2)-BTS 
C&D 19-FB (19p2) 

Or, if we dont consider the third panel of Deadpools dead father to be a true flashback, then: 

C&D 19-FB (8) 
C&D 19-FB (5) 
C&D 19-FB (11) 
C&D 19-FB (13p5-14p1) 
C&D 19-FB (17p5-19p2) 

Please note that in this case we cant simplify the listing for pp.13-14 down to just (13-14), since we need to specify that p.14 panel 2, the third panel of Deadpools dead father, is not part of the scene were listing. 


Now that the flashbacks themselves are all sorted out  where in Cable and Deadpools chronologies do they fit? Well, thats a tough question  Im posting this from work, without my books, and from memory it looks to me like both characters early histories are a little jumbled on the MCP right now anyway. Placing these will require an in-depth look at both characters histories  and thats something Ill try to get to this weekend. 

In the meantime, gape in awe and wonder why I went into such goddamn depth about a burning doo-rag 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Apr 2006 02:14 pm    
By Dhall

Quote: 
>>>
Now that the flashbacks themselves are all sorted out  where in Cable and Deadpools chronologies do they fit? Well, thats a tough question  Im posting this from work, without my books, and from memory it looks to me like both characters early histories are a little jumbled on the MCP right now anyway. Placing these will require an in-depth look at both characters histories  and thats something Ill try to get to this weekend. 
<<<


Only one weekend? You're an optimist.... 

The chronology for characters from Cable's timeline in general is kind of messed up, and needs a comprehensive overhaul. (or at least that's what I remember from the last time I looked at those chronologies.) 

Dave

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Apr 2006 10:34 pm    
By SeanCurtin

There's also the possibility that all of Deadpool's flashbacks here are either fabricated or outright delusions on Deadpool's part, as both of his parents appeared in the present during Christopher Priest's run on Deadpool. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Apr 2006 06:29 pm    
By jephyork
Director

I remembered that his father did -- but I just assumed that maybe his mother had cheated on her husband.  Where did his mother appear? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Apr 2006 07:08 pm    
By Somebody

SeanCurtin wrote: 
>>>
There's also the possibility that all of Deadpool's flashbacks here are either fabricated or outright delusions on Deadpool's part, as both of his parents appeared in the present during Christopher Priest's run on Deadpool. 
<<<

Thing about that is that DP just got fixed the issue before to remember his whole life properly. And the depressed look he's giving the floor when he remembers being there as his dad got shot says it's real.

			*	*	*

Posted: 29 Apr 2006 09:40 pm    
By jephyork
Director

During Priest's run, Deadpool was cursed by Loki with Thom Cruz's face -- and the curse would only be lifted once he "earned his father's forgiveness". 

In one of the final issues of the run, DP is asked by some old guy in a bar to quit hogging the salted peanuts -- DP says "sorry", and the older man says "no problem". The curse is immediately lifted. That old guy, therefore, must be his biological father ... alive and well. 

Of course, there are ways around that -- to say that the man who was shot in C&D #19 was DP's STEPfather, or that DP's mom cheated on her husband with the man in the bar. That's not so big a deal. 

But -- where did his MOTHER appear, alive and well, in Priest's Deadpool run? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Apr 2006 06:48 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Thing about that is that DP just got fixed the issue before to remember his whole life properly. 
<<<

If you're referring to the Frank Tieri run, his attempt to claim that Deadpool is Wade Wilson after all has been rejected from continuity; the HANDBOOK expressly ignores it. Their FAQ quite rightly justifies this decision on the grounds that Tieri's story makes no sense, comes out of nowhere, and can't possibly prevail over a lenghty storyline which it seems to reduce to nonsense. They appear to interpret Deadpool's comments as mind games, which is as good a theory as any.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Apr 2006 09:22 am  
By jephyork
Director

He's not referring to the Frank Tieri run -- he's referring to Cable fixing Deadpool's brain damage in C&D #18. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Apr 2006 10:42 am    
By Somebody

Indeed.

			*	*	*

Posted: 30 Apr 2006 06:18 pm    
By SeanCurtin

jephyork wrote: 
>>>
But -- where did his MOTHER appear, alive and well, in Priest's Deadpool run? 
<<<

Deadpool #36, in two separate flashbacks: one to when Deadpool is a teenager, and another to his post-Weapon X supervillain career. 


jephyork wrote: 
>>>
He's not referring to the Frank Tieri run -- he's referring to Cable fixing Deadpool's brain damage in C&D #18. 
<<<

Just because Deadpool doesn't have brain damage any more doesn't mean that he isn't still delusional. 

-Sean

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 May 2006 04:12 am    
By Paul O'Brien
Director

Mmm, I'd suggest that Cable has restored Deadpool to his usual level of sanity - seriously disturbed but borderline functional.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 01 May 2006 08:23 am    
By jephyork
Director

Yep, those flashbacks in DP3 #36 clearly show Deadpool's mother alive and well (and bad-tempered and fat) ... and they establish that he never knew who his father was. 

Which, of course, conflicts on every level with the FB in C&D #19... 

How to handle it? Two ways spring to mind -- first, we can write off the earlier FB as brain damage or a lie ... but I don't really want to do that, personally. 

The second way is to assume that Deadpool just went through an insane series of foster parents. Here's a possible scenario: 

Deadpool's future mother gets pregnant by a strange man. She then marries the military man we saw in C&D #19. The two of them raise young Deadpool until he is 5, at which point his birth mother dies. 

The military man raises DP alone for several years, but eventually remarries -- his new wife is the fat lady seen in DP3 #36. Then he is shot and killed. 

DP, still a minor at 17, lives with the fat lady, who he by now calls "ma". She reveals to him that the military man wasn't his biological father. 

Then the FBs in DP3 #36 occur -- he returns home from the Weapon X project to ask her who his father was, and ends up smacking her around. Later, Loki is able to exploit his lack of knowledge about his father to claim to be him. 

Later still, by chance DP runs into his biological father in a bar. 

There, how does that work? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Apr 2007 04:22 pm    
By Somebody

Okay, Cable/Deadpool #39 revisits this stuff briefly, mostly as part of Deadpool's closing (caption boxes) monologue - and has Deadpool state that, I'll quote: 

Deadpool, C/D #39 wrote: 
>>>
"I don't tell them. I don't need to. I know who I am." 

"In T-Ray's mixed-up memories--ones that he shared with me--I was wearing my Deadpool costume when he found me." 

"But I didn't become Deadpool until after I left Project X--after I got this healing factor to cure my cancer." 

"After my mom died of cancer when I was a kid. After my dad died in a barfight because of one of my drunken friends." 

"After I'd been kicked out of the army. Which I'd signed up for as Wade Winston Wilson." [NB: This is partially substantiated by his army drill sargeant referring to him as "Wilson" in C/D #36] 

"Because that's who I am." 
<<<

PS: Oh, and yeah, earlier it has DP also say outright what Paul O suggested two posts up.

			*	*	*

Posted: 22 Apr 2007 10:56 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Which works, except that a) we already saw Deadpool's alleged mother and actual biological father in Priest's run on Deadpool, and b) in a flashback in DPOOL2 2, Deadpool appears in costume years ago, before his time in Weapon X. The former could be (and has been) explained away in this thread - she's his stepmother or adopted mother, he's Wade's illegitimate father. The latter can't be pushed forward to occur after Deadpool leaves Weapon X, because it features Banshee as an Interpol agent and refers to Amahl Farouk as an active crimelord, and thus occurs about a decade before GSX 1. When Wade Wilson first arrives at Weapon X in DPOOL '98-FB, James Hudson is seen in his Guardian costume and referred to by that name - in other words, months of Marvel time after GSX 1. 

The only way to reconcile the scene from DPOOL2 2 with the new version of Deadpool's history is to assume that Deadpool randomly travelled back in time, had some adventures, then returned to the present, all BTS. (That said, Deadpool did randomly travel back in time in a flashback in the Deadpool Team-Up one-shot, but we really shouldn't have to assume that these two ramdom flashbacks are directly connected because a normally continuity-conscious writer decided to ignore existing continuity in favor of his own version of a character's history.)

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Apr 2007 06:35 pm    
By Enda80

Amahl Farouk died when Storm was still a pint-sized pickpocket in Cairo right (swipe from Modesty Blaise-but then Deadpool swipes from Deathstorke the Terminator).?

			*	*	*

Posted: 23 Apr 2007 09:13 pm    
By Dhall

I haven't read the issue, but can we just assume that Deadpool is being delusional when he says ""But I didn't become Deadpool until after I left Project X--after I got this healing factor to cure my cancer." ? 

That's the statement that's the problem right? If it's just something that Deadpool says, I don't see a problem with assuming he's delsusional. If there's a flashback - that's a problem.

			*	*	*

Thread 44

Posted: 21 Mar 2007 12:44 am    Post subject: ClanDestine 1-8
By Johh Simons

ClanDestine #1 (Oct 1994) 
Alan Davis/ Alan Davis/ Mark Farmer 

In Nottingham, England, two young super-heroes called the Crimson Crusader (gravity-manipulating Rory Destine) and Imp (energy-projecting Pandora Destine) thwart the Windsor Gangs attempt to rob the Merriemen Museum. In Barcelona, Spain 3 strangely-mutated humans show up at the hotel room of fashion designer Kay Cera (psionic Kay Destine AKA Cuckoo) demanding the Gryphon. When a battle breaks out, Kay is thrown out a window and falls several stories, but she is able to transfer his consciousness into a nearby cat before her body dies. The creatures obtain a small notebook of information that was hidden in Kays locket. As he flies through space, the Silver Surfer is shocked to see a blond human (Adam Destine) flying by in a broken down, psychadelically-painted VW van. In a chalet in the Swiss Alps, Maurice Fortuit (Maurice Destine) is attacked by other hybrids demanding the Gryphon; in Nepal an old mystic (Albert Destine) psychically feels his death. At his manor in Ravencroft, England, romance author Walter Destine receives the news of Maurices death from his elderly housemate, Florence, who saw it in a dream, but before they can process this they, too are attacked by hybrids. Rory and Pandora arrive to help defend their family home, and to the kids surprise Walter transforms into a giant, blue-skinned super-strong creature. The defeated hybrids dissolve, but Flo dies of her injuries. Honoring her dying request, Walter tells the kids that he is not their uncle, and Flo was not their grandmother, in fact, they are all brothers and sisters. The Destines are all extremely long-lived, and have done their best to hide their existence from the outside world-- but now someone is apparently out to destroy them all! 

Characters appearing: 
Crimson Crusader 
Cuckoo 
Destine, Adam 
Destine, Albert 
Destine, Florence (dies in this issue) 
Destine, Maurice (dies in this issue) 
Imp 
Lenz- BTS (sent out the hybrids) 
Silver Surfer 
Wallop 

Also: 
Pascal ( a male model dating Kay) 
Simone and Mimi (girls hanging out with Maurice) 
Various hybrids 

Flashback: 
Years ago, MODOK was forced to self-destruct a secret A.I.M. lab beneath the Hudson river in an attempt to destroy Project Lenz-- a dangerous lab experiment gone awry-- but the creature escapes the purge. 

Characters appearing: 
Lenz 
MODOK 
Various AIM scientists 

Continuity notes: 
Silver Surfers appearance in the first 3 issues of this series can be placed anytime around late 94 in which he is flying around in space and not in any particular hurry to get anywhere, since he stops to shoot the breeze with Adam for awhile. 
Due to the years ago reference, MODOK and his AIM minions probably appear early in ol Big-heads career. 

Clandestine #2 (Nov 1994) 

Walter phones another sister, Samantha Hasard, who has the ability to conjure up sword and armor for herself and has already destroyed the hybrids who invaded her Pyrenees Orientales home. Sam sees on the news that Kay has been reported dead, but they figure she may have been able to survive the death of her current body. Kay transfers her consciouness into the body of a dying drug addict who has just been stabbed by dealers. Walter, Rory, and Pandora travel to a remote island off the coast of Ilfracombe, where their super-sensory brother Dominic has been living in solitude to avoid over-stimulation. Inititially Walter and Dominic get into a fight over the death of their brother Vincent, who at some point in the past was killed by Adam, a wound that still divides the family. Rory breaks up the fight convinces Dominic to help. Dom dons the flamboyant costume he previously wore as the theatrical performer Hex. The Silver Surfers examination of Adams vehicle determines that it has been flying around space for eleven years. When he can detect no augmentation to the human, Adam Destine asks how he can die. On a movie set in Australias Simpson Desert, where he is playing a superhero called Capn Oz, Will Chance (Will Destine) makes short work of the hybrids who approach him looking for the Gryphon. In fact, they dissolve so easily that Will thinks he has been pranked by the film crew! Looking among the effects of the dissolved hybrids, Hex can find no connection between them other than the tiny teleportation circuits they were all wearing. He summons their brother, super-scientist Newton Destine, from the planet Ethera, where the nerdy man is ruling as warlord in an engineered musclebound body. Newton teleports back to his world with the circuits for further analysis. In the wallet of one of the hybrids, Hex finds a business card for a Griffin Technologies. 

Characters appearing: 
Alpha 
Crimson Crusader 
Cuckoo 
Destine, Adam 
Destine, Newton 
Destine, Samantha 
Destine, Will 
Giee 
Hex 
Imp 
Lenz- BTS (sent out the hybrids) 
Raee 
Silver Surfer 
Springs, Alice 
Wallop 

Also: 
Alphas Omegans 
Bruce, Wills director 
2 unnamed Spanish drug dealers 

Clandestine #3 (Dec 1994) 

Kay astrally visits Albert in Nepal and convinces him to heal her new body. As Adam is explaining to the Surfer what a burden it is to never age, while your children grow old and die, and to never feel, he is sent a psychic warning from the Destines matriarch that their children are dying. The Surfer uses the power cosmic to restore Adams vehicle so that he may return to Earth. Kay and Sam meet up in Barcelona, where they fight off more hybrids before heading on to England to combining their powers to fly. After a piece of chocolate causes Dom to pass out from sensory overload, Walter, Rory, and Pandora break into the Griffin Research Complex without him. They find a scary genetics lab but are soon subdued by a gas attack. Will is looking for some quiet time with his co-star/girlfriend Alice Springs when they are attacked by more hybrids. In mid-fight, the attackers receive a mental message that the person who stole the Gryphon has been found, and they teleport away. The imprisoned Destines are confronted by Dr. Hywel Griffin AKA Alpha and his genetically-engineered children, the Omegans, who contend that Rory has the Gryphon (Genetic Realignment Yield Polarity Harmonizing Orientation Net), which can genetically alter any organism. Rory admits that he and Pandora came upon a battle between two factions, so they grabbed the device they were fighting over in order to end the hostilities. Suddenly an assistant of Alpha named Lazlo teleports away with Rory, where he is confronted by a giant green creature who demands the Gryphon. Walter realizes that Alpha is not behind the hybrids who have been murdering the family, there is another player in the game! 

Characters appearing: 
Alpha 
Crimson Crusader 
Cuckoo 
Destine, Adam 
Destine, Albert 
Destine, Samantha 
Destine, Will 
Giee 
Hex 
Imp 
Lenz 
Raee 
Silver Surfer 
Springs, Alice 
Wallop 

Also: 
The Destine djinn matriarch- BTS (never named) 
Other Omegans (unnamed) 
Lazlo (a hybrid) and other hybrids 

Flashback: 
Security camera footage taken two nights ago shows Rory and Pandora intervening in a battle between Alphas security force and Lenzs hybrids. They take the Gryphon to stop the fighting, but part of Pandoras cape was ripped off in the melee. 

Characters appearing: 
Crimson Crusader 
Imp 
Various security guards 

Clandestine #4 (Jan 1995) 

Kay and Sam rendezvous with Dom in Britain, and from afar Kay psychically causes Rory to lose consciouness in order to protect him from his attacker. The three reunited siblings break into the Griffin complex and free Walter and Pandora. Having scanned his mind from afar, Kay tells the others that their large green adversary was once a man named Lenz, who was gentically altered by MODOK and AIM several years ago. He has been trying to create hybrids to be his companions, but needs the Gryphon to stabilize their structures. As the Destines return to Ravenscroft, Pandora realizes that she has no powers when she is seperated from Rory. Newton returns from Ethera with a method of teleporting the others- with the Gryphon- to the source of the hybrids teleportation circuits. Moments after they depart, Adam crash lands in the yard! A full-scale battle between Lenz, his hybrids and the Destines is interrupted when Adam arrives and defeats Lenz in a head-to-head psychic battle. To his childrens surprise, Adam allows Lenz to depart in peace after his plans have been thwarted and all his hybrids dissolved. Now that the threat has passed, the twins pepper him with questions about the family. 

Characters appearing: 
Alpha 
Crimson Crusader 
Cuckoo 
Destine, Adam 
Destine, Newton 
Destine, Samantha 
Giee 
Hex 
Imp 
Lenz 
Raee 
Wallop 

Also: 
Felix (a hybrid) 
Various hybrids 
Other Omegans 

Flashback: 
In a single panel, Cuckoo creates a telepathic projection showing Lenz in the past, working on a device used in the creation of his hybrids. 

Character appearing: 
Lenz 

Clandestine #5 (Feb 1995) 

Kay astrally visits Will to update him on whats been happening with the family. In the family cemetery, Adam talks to Rory and Pandora about the familys origins. Kay psionically sends visions of horror to the drug dealers who killed the former inhabitant of her new body. Walter tells the twins its time for them to return to school. 

Characters appearing: 
Crimson Crusader 
Cuckoo 
Destine, Adam 
Destine, Samantha 
Destine, Will 
Hex 
Imp 
Springs, Alice 
Wallop 

Also: 
Bruce (Wills director) 
The Spanish drug dealers who killed Kays host 

Flashback 1: 
Adam Destine was born in 1168, a son of farmers who in his sixteeth year fell from a height and was accidentally impaled on a scythe. While comatose and hovering near death, he had a prophetic vision of an unearthly green woman. When he awoke and recovered, the villagers believed they had witnessed a miracle and he became known of Adam of Destine. 

Flashback 2: 
In 1189, Adam joined the Crusades and traveled with Richard the Lionheart to Jerusalem. 

Flashback 3: 
After two years of fighting, he was captured by Al Kadhdhaab, a powerful man who explained to Adam that he was destined to free the world from the threat of the evil sorcerer Sujanaa Min Raghbah who was in possession of a giant mystic gem of great power. Adam travels into Sujanaas lands and confronts the sorcerer, who demands that Adam explain why she protects him. After he runs Sujanaa through with his sword, Al Kadhdhaab takes him down with a crossbow bolt, eager to claim the gem for himself. Although dying, Adam was able to shatter the gem, freeing the female djinn inside. The djinn destroys Al Kadhdhaab, heals Adam, and they joined together to become the sires of the Destine family. 

Characters appearing: 
Al Kadhdhaab 
Destine, Adam 
Raghbah, Sujanaa Min 
Richard the Lionheart 

Also: 
The Destines djinn mother (unfortunately still unnamed) 
Adams father and local villagers (all unnamed), Crusaders, Saracens, and harem girls. 

Timeline notes: 
In summarizing recent events to Will, Kay says that Rory and Pandoras inadvertent theft of the Gryphon happened three nights ago Based on this statement, the timeline of the first story through issue five goes: 

Night one: 
Crimson Crusader and Imp acquire the Gryphon, as shown in the FB in issue 3. 

Night two: 
Crimson Crusader and Imp foil the Windsor Gang, but family members begin to die as the hybrids searching for the Gryphon attack 

Day three: 
The family comes together to sort out their opponents. 

Day four: 
Adam tells the familys origin to Rory and Pandora, while Walter, Sam and Dom are trying unsuccessfully to return the Gryphon to Alpha. 

Marvel Comics Presents #158 (Early July 1994) 

The Clan Destine battle an assortment of robotic opponents created by their brother Newton for a battle simulation. The point of the exercise was to impress upon Rory and Pandora the dangers of combat, but it backfires: the twins find it fun and are just as excited as ever to be superheroes. 

Crimson Crusader 
Cuckoo 
Destine, Newton 
Destine, Samantha 
Hex 
Imp 
Wallop 

Timeline: 
Although this story was published several months prior to issue one of the series, it must take place after the initial story, since the family is already together and in their costumes. It fits best between issues 5 and 6, since they are still trying to convince Rory and Pandora to give up being superheroes and fighting crime. 

Clandestine #6 (March 1995) 

Adam tells Walter that although he is back he has no intention of interfering with the parental role Walter has established with the twins. After Pandora and Rory get into a fight with bullies at school, Walter threatens to seperate them so that their powers will no longer work. Kay and Sam visit the lawyer Kay used in her previous life, and to Sams distress Kay uses her mental powers on him so that he will validate a will bequeathing all of Kay Ceras estate to her daughter. Fearful that an audit of Kays company would reveal that the executive directors have been embezzling for years, one of the directors, Mr. Kramer, hires an assassin called the Skyline Killer to kill her. When one of the other directors, Minelli, objects, the Skyline Killer fires him with a electrical bolt. The twins decide to run away together, climbing into an abandoned car which Rory levitates all the way to New York City. They crash land in Manhattan, and are so dazed and tired from the ordeal that they are in great danger from local thugs until Spider-Man swoops down and takes care of them. 

Characters appearing: 
Alpha 
Crimson Crusader 
Cuckoo 
Destine, Adam 
Destine, Samantha 
Giee 
Hex 
Imp 
Kramer 
Raee 
Skyline Killer 
Spider-Man 
Wallop 

Also: 
Georgio Minnelli (dies in this issue) 
B.L. Morris (headmaster of the Trumpton Comprehensive School) 
ONeil, Brian Bogwert, and other classmates of Rory and Pandora 
Mr. Jones, one of the twins teachers 
Kays lawyer 
Various NY gangbangers 

Clandestine #7 (Apr 1995) 

The Skyline Killer ambushes Kay and Sam and uses tranquilizer darts to bring them down. Spider-Man takes the twins to an under-construction hotel to recover, but he cant convince them to go see their sisters who are in town. He makes a deal with them that if he can take them down, they have to go to Kay and Sam, and if they can catch him, he will take them on as sidekicks. Naturally, Spidey beats them easily. Adam and Dominic have a conversation about how Adams immortality has made him emotionally detached from his own family. Dominic sympathizes with Adams plight, but tells him he will never forgive him for killing Vincent. The Skyline Killer has Kay and Sam chained up on a rooftop and explains that he has been committing murders around town, to make it look like their deaths will be random. Spidey and the twins respond to a mental plea for help from Kay, and the Killer is sent fleeing. Believing that Kramer betrayed him, the Killer kidnaps and guts the executive, mere moments before his head is blown off by the Punisher. 

Characters appearing: 
Crimson Crusader 
Cuckoo 
Destine, Adam 
Destine, Samantha 
Hex 
Imp 
Kramer (dies in this issue) 
Punisher 
Skyline Killer (dies in this issue) 
Spider-Man 
Wallop 

Also: 
Anthea Dupres, a Daily Bugle reporter 

Continuity notes: 
Spidey appears in this 2-parter in his traditional costume. Frankly, Im so ignorant of 1990s Spider-Man comics, I guess I cant say with 100% that this is Peter Parker and not Ben Reilly. Who was being Spider in early 95? 
Punisher appears in more or less traditional garb, with black boots instead of his original white. 

Clandestine #8 (May 1995) 

Adam, Dominic, and Walter fly around London wearing flight belts created by Netwon, and discussing the pros and cons of becoming crimefighters.. Dominic argues that the world is more aware of strange beings these days, and Adam says that they must take part in the world around them. Slowly his father and brother seem to be convincing Walter to indulge the twins crimefighting aspirations. 

Characters appearing: 
Destine, Adam 
Hex 
Wallop 

Flashback 1: 
Dominic tells a story of years before, when he was a theatrical performer in Greenwich village, and someone in the audience handed him a chinese puzzle box which transported him to a series of bizarre alien dimensions. He was saved by Dr. Strange, who tracked him down and returned him to Earth. 

Characters appearing: 
Dr. Strange 
Hex 

Also 
An unnamed sorceress (Hex goes flying by her) 
Some Mindless Ones 

Flashback 2: 
In 1944, Walter was with military intelligence at Bunbrook Bomber station when a giant Nazi robot fell from the sky and attacked. The Invaders (Captain America, Sub-Mariner and Human Torch) engaged it in battle but were defeated. It was the first time Walter turned into his savage blue form, and he destroyed the war machine. Freaked out by his scary form, approaching soldiers attacked him, and he was forced to flee and was later considered to be part of the nazi scheme 

Characters appearing: 
Captain America 
Human Torch I 
Sub-Mariner 
Wallop 

Also: 
2 Nazi pilots and various British soldiers 

Flashback 3: 
In 1615, Adam was en route from Russia to China when he encountered three alien invaders in the Sayan mountains. After the aliens are unable to harm him in combat, they return to the stars with the mistaken belief that all humans are invulnerable and therefore they should avoid the Earth in the future. 

Characters appearing: 
Destine, Adam 
Unnamed alien invaders 

Continuity notes: 
The Dr. Strange FB seems to evoke the Steve Ditko era, but if so the latter half after Doc begins wearing the Cloak of Levitation and Eye of Agomotto. 
The Invaders segment is dated 1944-- towards the end of WW II A top secret conference of allied leaders is being held at Bunbrook Bomber Station. The Invaders are presumably around for protection. Namor is wearing his green speedo and Cap has a round shield, if that helps at all. 

Before I get to the listing updates, a note on the abbreviation. Since X&CD was chosen as the abbreviation for the X-Men/Clandestine limited series, it seems only sensible to use CD for the ClanDestine series, however it is already taken, so I used CLAN instead. Also, I noticed several characters appearances in X&CD arent listed so I added them. 

ALPHA/ HYWEL GRIFFIN 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 6 

CRIMSON CRUSADER/RORY DESTINE 
**CLAN 3-FB 
**CLAN 1 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 5 
**{M/CP 158} 
**CLAN 6 
**CLAN 7 
X&CD 1 
X&CD 2 

CUCKOO/KAY DESTINE/ KAY CERA 
**X&CD 2-FB 
**X&CD 1-FB 
**CLAN 1 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 5 
**{M/CP 158} 
**CLAN 6 
**CLAN 7 
**X&CD 1 
**X&CD 2 

DESTINE, ADAM 
**CLAN 5-FB 
**CLAN 5-FB 
**CLAN 5-FB 
**CLAN 8-FB 
**CLAN 1 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 5 
**CLAN 6 
**CLAN 7 
**CLAN 8 
X&CD 1 
X&CD 2 

DESTINE, ALBERT 
**CLAN 1 
**CLAN 3 

DESTINE, GRACIE 
**X&CD 2-FB 
**X&CD 1-FB 
**X&CD 1 
**X&CD 2 

DESTINE, NEWTON 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 4 
**{M/CP 158} 
X&CD 1 
X&CD 2 

DESTINE, SAMANTHA/ SAMANTHA HASARD 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 5 
**{M/CP 158} 
**CLAN 6 
**CLAN 7 
**X&CD 1 
**X&CD 2 

DESTINE, WILL/ WILL CHANCE 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 5 

GIEE 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 6 

HEX/DOMINIC DESTINE 
**CLAN 8-FB 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 5 
**{M/CP 158} 
**CLAN 6 
**CLAN 7 
**CLAN 8 
X&CD 1 
X&CD 2 

IMP/PANDORA DESTINE 
**CLAN 3-FB 
**CLAN 1 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 5 
**{M/CP 158} 
**CLAN 6 
**CLAN 7 
X&CD 1 
X&CD 2 

KRAMER 
**CLAN 6 
**CLAN 7 

LENZ 
**CLAN 1- FB 
**CLAN 4-FB 
**CLAN 1- BTS 
**CLAN 2- BTS 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 

RAEE 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 6 

SKYLINE KILLER 
**CLAN 6 
**CLAN 7 

SPRINGS, ALICE 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 5 

WALLOP/WALTER DESTINE/ SABRINA BENTLEY 
**CLAN 8-FB 
**CLAN 1 
**CLAN 2 
**CLAN 3 
**CLAN 4 
**CLAN 5 
**{M/CP 158} 
**CLAN 6 
**CLAN 7 
**CLAN 8 
X&CD 1 
X&CD 2
_________________
"Jessica, whatever you do...don't contradict the continuity! They'll eat you alive! They'll. Eat. You. Alive!"

			*	*	*

Posted: 21 Mar 2007 02:00 am
By Col_Fury

John Simons wrote: 
>>>
The Invaders segment is dated 1944-- towards the end of WW II  
<<<

I had suggested the abbreviation 'CLAND' when I posted possible placements for Cap, Namor, & Torch, but hey. Whatever works, right?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Apr 2007 11:32 am    
By ADMINISTRATOR

Weren't these issues declared non-canon in a later issue of the series? 


watching: lost

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Apr 2007 01:08 pm    
By Somebody

Davis retconned Clandestine #9-12 (i.e., the issues after he left, where I'm told everything went whacko, although I haven't read them for myself) into a dream in X-Men/Clandestine. Not #1-8.

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Apr 2007 05:28 pm    
By SeanCurtin

Meant to add this when this was first posted: Cuckoo is already listed in the MCP under CERA, KAY. She should probably only be listed under CUCKOO.

			*	*	*

Thread 45

Posted: 08 Mar 2007 12:50 am    Post subject: The Awesome Slapstick! #1-4
By JLH

Slapstick from the Gap, quick! 

------------------------------------ 
THE AWESOME SLAPSTICK! #1 [November 1992] 
Writer: Len Keminski 
Penciler: James Fry III 
Inker: Terry Austin 
"The Totally Awesome Origin Of Slapstick!" 

Cast: 
SLAPSTICK/STEVE HARMON 
PETERSON, MIKE 
DOCTOR STRANGE II/DR. STEPHEN STRANGE 
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
SILVER SURFER/NORRIN RADD 
UATU 
MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS 
INVISIBLE WOMAN/SUE STORM RICHARDS 
HOWARD THE DUCK 
OVERKILLER (Murderizer of Mutants) 
DOCTOR DENTON/OLIVER DENTON (BTS. He's who Overkiller is tracking) 

Other characters: 
Mr and Mrs Harmon 
Heather (classmate of Steve's) 
Don Winston (Steve's school rival) 
Syd (Steve's informant, BTS) 
Evil Clowns from Dimension X 
Overlord of Dimension X 
Former Scientist Supreme of Dimension X 

Summary: Wacky high school student Steve Harmon dresses up like a clown and attempts to pull a prank on an annoying classmate at a carnival. But he soon discovers it's a front for Evil Clowns from Dimension X. When trying to follow the clowns through their funhouse mirror portal, Steve is altered into a cartoon character reflecting his costume, and thanks to some Good Clowns from Dimension X, is given the ability to switch back and forth to his normal form. Dubbing his new mode Slapstick, Steve stops the evil Overlord from his plan to brainwash mankind. 


Continuity notes: Dr Strange is shown in his Sanctum, Peter's in Midtown Manhattan, Silver Surfer is shown "in deep space", Uatu is on the Moon, Reed & Sue are in the Four Freedoms Plaza lab, and Howard's in Cleveland. 


------------------------------------ 
THE AWESOME SLAPSTICK! #2 [December 1992] 
Writer: Len Keminski 
Penciler: James Fry III 
Inker: Terry Austin 
"Trigger Happy!" 

Cast: 
SLAPSTICK/STEVE HARMON 
PETERSON, MIKE 
OVERKILLER (also in FB) 
DOCTOR DENTON/OLIVER DENTON 
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE 

Other characters: 
Syd (girl who likes Steve) 
Joey (brainy pal) 
Wayne & Garth (party time, excellent) 
Barb Halsey (girl who Steve likes) 

Summary: Steve and Mike go to the Freleng Mall, and eat at the McRonalds. When a nearby child's birthday party gets messy, Steve slips out and assumes his role as Slapstick, pretending to be the mascot, Donald McRonald, in an effort to prank the kiddies. But a Punisher-ripoff called Overkiller strikes, thinking Slapstick to be a mutant. Chaos ensues. Spider-Man, who was shopping at the mall with his wife, gets involved (anything to avoid shopping), merely mopping up when Slapstick defeats Overkiller by kissing him and then bonking him with his magic mallet. Oh, that mutant Overkiller was after? Turns out to be the birthday boy from that party earlier. The eight year old mutant genius known as Oliver Denton vows vengeance on the ruining of his party. 


Flashback: The Origin of the Overkiller! Years ago, a television report on the death of the X-Men in Dallas (Uncanny X-Men 227) preempted "Wheel of Fortune". Missing the rest of the episode, he vowed vengeance upon all mutants and became the Overkiller. There's a shot of old brown costume Wolverine on the TV, but I'm pretty sure it's nothing new. 


Continuity notes: Basic normal stuff for Spidey and MJ, things were awfully stable at this point in history. One cute gag is Spidey hitting a Publisher's Remainder Sale filled to the brim with copies of "Webs" for $1.98/lb. 

Mad Thinker has an ad in a magazine Oliver Denton reads and sends away for. I don't think it should count for a BTS appearance, since for all we know, he merely celebrity endorsed the company selling the robot parts, it doesn't go through him directly. 


------------------------------------ 
THE AWESOME SLAPSTICK! #3 [January 1993] 
Writer: Len Keminski 
Penciler: James Fry III 
Inker: Terry Austin 
"Sweeney Toddler" 

Cast: 
SLAPSTICK/STEVE HARMON 
PETERSON, MIKE 
DOCTOR DENTON/OLIVER DENTON 
NEUTRON BUM 

Other characters: 
Don Winston 
Barb Halsey 
Vinnie (Barb's boyfriend) 
Teddy (robot of death) 


Summary: Steve gets up the courage to ask Barb out on a date, and is invited over as she babysits Oliver Denton. Unfortunately, she's busy fornicating with her boyfriend, big old jock Vinnie. Unbeknowst to anyone, Oliver has uses his mutant intellect to create a deadly android teddy bear named Teddy. In the process of powering him up, a surge of energy is sent down into the Con Ed Grid to areas not used in years, setting off a junction box under Manhattan that a drunk vagrant is living near... atop cans of radioactive waste! This cross of electricity and radioactivity turns the foul-mouthed man into the Neutron Bum... but more on him later. Anyway, Oliver creates the persona of Doctor Denton, Conqueror of Worlds, and has Teddy beat up Vinnie. Steve overhears Barb's calls for help, turns into Slapstick, and wackily battles Teddy. He ends up tied up and experimented on by Dr Denton, learning that electrical charges through his cartoonish body cause metamorpheses in the structure. Now muscular, Slapstick gives Teddy a beating until he runs out of power, and soon gives Oliver a spanking. Barb kisses Slapstick repeatedly until the Dentons come home and, finding Oliver has once again built an android that messed up the house, ground the boy. Later, Mike reminds Steve that Barb only loves Slapstick, who apparently lacks any sexual organs. Oh, and the Neutron Bum begins his spree of asking men on the street for coffee money. When they refuse, he gets mad, his powers go off, and the person is atomized. Bum moves on, his asking price for spare money increases times a 100 each time. 


Goofs: Oliver doesn't even recognize Slapstick from the previous issue (thus the vow of vengeance was useless), nor is the whole Mad Thinkerer ad brought up (he merely made Teddy from his own super intelligence). 


------------------------------------ 
THE AWESOME SLAPSTICK! #4 [February 1993] 
Writer: Len Keminski 
Penciler: James Fry III 
Inker: Terry Austin 
"The Nuclear Waste" 

Cast: 
SLAPSTICK/STEVE HARMON 
PETERSON, MIKE 
NEUTRON BUM 
DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK 
GHOST RIDER III/NOBLE KALE 
KETCH, DANIEL "DANNY" (BTS) 
SPEEDBALL/ROBBIE BALDWIN 
CARTER, PEGGY 
CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS 
THING/BENJAMIN J. GRIMM 
NIGHT THRASHER/DWAYNE TAYLOR 
HUMAN TORCH II/JOHNNY STORM 
NOVA/RICHARD RIDER 
INVISIBLE WOMAN/SUE STORM RICHARDS 
IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK 
NAMORITA/NITA PRENTISS 
MARVEL BOY V/VANCE ASTROVIK 
QUASAR III/WENDELL ELVIS VAUGHAN 
VISION II 
THUNDERSTRIKE/ERIC KEVIN MASTERSON (as Thor) 
FIRESTAR/ANGELICA JONES 

Other characters: 
Mr and Mrs Harmon 
Syd 
Bill & Ted (together, they are Wyld Stalyns) 


Summary: The Neutron Bum continues his rampage, his asking price for a cup of coffee rising to a million spare bucks. Steve's in New York City, awaiting tickets to see the Morones, and is the first hero to make the scene of the Bum's bursting spree as Slapstick. Many, many other heroes are called in to deal with the threat of the atomic vagrant, leading to a collision course between Slapstick and Speedball. Between the police and the heroes, violence is seemingly the only response given to the deranged man's pleas. Anyway, Slapstick is the only one who listens well enough to just go out and get a cup of coffee. When Neutron Bum finally gets to drink it, Slapstick bonks him on the head with his mallet. The so-called "heroes" (including that Wusser... I mean, Super Soldier Cap) find that attack unfair, and the Thing punts Slapstick into the air by several miles. When Slapstick lands, he vows to return, and begs the audience to write in and demand he get an ongoing book. 



Continuity notes: Vance is still Marvel Boy, in his NW costume. Namorita has her short haircut. Nova has his tradition costume. The FF, as in all appearances this series, have their typical dark-blue with large white neck-area costumes. Vision is in his white body. Quasar is in his "permanent" costume. Thor is the bearded and silver-eye-masked Eric Masterson version. And Iron Man's armor is his standard pre-War Machine red & gold armor. 


Goofs: Slapstick claims the Neutron Bum calls himself by that name, but we never see him do so, and there's never any time for Slappy to hear him say it. 


------------------------------------ 



SLAPSTICK/STEVE HARMON 
(real name should be added) 
**SLAP 1 
**SLAP 2 
**SLAP 3 
**SLAP 4 
M/CP 159/4 
... 

PETERSON, MIKE 
**SLAP 1 
**SLAP 2 
**SLAP 3 
**SLAP 4 
M/CP 159/4 
... 

**OVERLORD II 
SLAP 1 

HOWARD THE DUCK 
... 
S-H2 17 
**SLAP 1 
SMTU 5/2 
... 


DOCTOR STRANGE II/DR. STEPHEN STRANGE 
... 
DRSTR@ 2/3 
**SLAP 1 
M/CP 103/4 
... 

SILVER SURFER/NORRIN RADD [ZEN-LAVIAN] 
... 
M/CP 69/4 
**SLAP 1 
M/CP 97/2 
... 

UATU [WATCHER] 
(added race name) 
... 
A@ 20 
**SLAP 1 
A 334 
... 

**OVERKILLER 
SLAP 2-FB 
{SLAP 1} 
SLAP 2 

**DOCTOR DENTON/OLIVER DENTON 
SLAP 1-BTS 
SLAP 2 
SLAP 3 


SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
... 
S-M 20/2 
**SLAP 1 
**SLAP 2 
S-M 18 
... 

WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE 
... 
S-M 19/2 
**SLAP 2 
S-M 18 
... 


**NEUTRON BUM 
SLAP 3 
SLAP 4 

DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK/"JACK BATLIN" 
(the fake name he used while "fallen from grace" should be listed) 
... 
M/FAN 60/3 
**SLAP 4 
DD 298 
... 

GHOST RIDER III/NOBLE KALE 
... 
GR3 20 
**SLAP 4 
S-M 18 
... 

KETCH, DANIEL "DANNY" 
... 
GR3 20 
**SLAP 4-BTS 
S-M 18 
... 

SPEEDBALL/ROBBIE BALDWIN 
... 
NW 17 
**SLAP 4 
NW 18 
... 

CARTER, PEGGY 
... 
A 341 
**SLAP 4 
NW 22 
... 

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
... 
T 444 
**SLAP 4 
A 343 
... 

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS 
... 
DAMCON3 4 
**SLAP 1 
AWC 75 
... 
NW 17 
**SLAP 4 
S-M 23 
... 

THING/BENJAMIN J. GRIMM 
... 
NW 17 
**SLAP 4 
S-M 23 
... 


NIGHT THRASHER/DWAYNE TAYLOR 
... 
A 342 
**SLAP 4 
NW 18 
... 

HUMAN TORCH II/JOHNNY STORM 
... 
NW 17 
**SLAP 4 
S-M 23 
... 

NOVA/RICHARD RIDER 
... 
NW 17 
**SLAP 4 
NW 18 
... 

INVISIBLE WOMAN/SUE STORM RICHARDS 
... 
DAMCON3 4 
**SLAP 1 
AWC 75 
... 
NW 17 
**SLAP 4 
S-M 23 
... 

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK 
... 
WM2 2 
**SLAP 4 
AWC 76 
... 

NAMORITA/NITA PRENTISS [ATLANTEAN] 
... 
A 342 
**SLAP 4 
NW 18 
... 

JUSTICE II/VANCE ASTROVIK 
... 
A 342 
**SLAP 4 
NW 18 
... 


QUASAR III/WENDELL ELVIS VAUGHAN 
... 
Q 31 
**SLAP 4 
AWC 80 
... 

VISION II 
... 
A 342 
**SLAP 4 
A 343 
... 

THUNDERSTRIKE/ERIC KEVIN MASTERSON 
... 
T@ 17/2 
**SLAP 4 
A 343 
... 

FIRESTAR/ANGELICA JONES 
... 
A 342 
**SLAP 4 
NW 18 
...

Last edited by JLH on 25 Apr 2007 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Apr 2007 09:22 pm    
By ADMINISTRATOR

JLH wrote: 
>>>
NAMORITA/NITA PRENTISS [ATLANTEAN] 
... 
N 17 
**SLAP 4 
N 18 
... 
<<<


Do you mean NW 17 and NW 18? 


watching: national lampoon's adam and eve

			*	*	*

Posted: 25 Apr 2007 10:57 pm    
By JLH

Administrator wrote: 
>>>
Do you mean NW 17 and NW 18? 
<<<

Yes. I got my "Heroes for the 90s" titles confused there.

			*	*	*

Thread 46

Posted: 26 Apr 2007 09:43 pm    Post subject: Sgt. Fury 75-79, 81, 83, 84, 86, 88, 90, 92
By Col_Fury

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #75 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, Reb Ralston, Dino Manelli, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Capt. Sam Sawyer-FB 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg2, pg20 
The Howling Commandos witness Wilsons execution by firing squad for desertion. 
pg3-pg19-FB 
Captain Sawyer assigns Koenigs replacement to the Howlers: Pvt. Wilson. However, before he can get any training with the squad, Sawyer has to send them out to rescue a captured General with knowledge of the D-Day plans. They parachute into the German countryside and make their way to where the General is being kept, but when the fighting starts, Wilson deserts. After the mission is accomplished Wilson appears, but hell have to be brought up on charges. 

References: 
The present time segment is a few months after the FlashBack. 

In the FlashBack, Capt. Sawyer is assigning Erics replacement, so this has to happen after Sgt. Fury 65-71. Also, the assignment theyre immediately sent on involves a General who knows the plans for D-Day, so before SGTF@ 2. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #76 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Gen. Robert Hunt, Lt. Jack Fury-FB 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg2, pg20pn5-pg20pn6 
Sgt. Fury meets Sir Robert Hunt, the father of his date. As it turns out, Hunt knew Furys father Jack and he tells Nick of his fathers exploits in World War I. 
Pg3-pg20pn5-FB: 1916 
Lt. Jack Fury approaches Gen. Robert Hunt about being a fighter pilot. After some training, he fights for England and France against the Germans, often against the Red Baron. 

References: 
Nicks father Jack died when Nick was a kid, and his biological mother died before that. His fathers second wife was seen in Sgt. Fury 68 & 69. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #77 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Dino Manelli, Izzy Cohen, Percival Pinkerton, Capt. Sawyer, Eric Koenig, 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg5 
Capt. Sawyer gives Fury and his Howlers their mission: retrieve Koenig and German air strike plans for G-2. Theyll be accompanied by Sgt. Hans Klaus who speaks German better than English. 
pg6-pg20: next day 
The Howlers parachute into a German town and capture the maps and plans, but Koenig escapes. After being chewed out by Sawyer, Fury curses himself for working against Klaus instead of with him. 

References: 
Koenig is being held by Nazi command under suspicion of sabotage, as seen in Sgt. Fury 70 & 71. Hell confirm that it was him next issue. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #78 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, Reb Ralston, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg19 
Sgt. Klaus is being sent to work with the German underground and Capt. Sawyer gives Fury sealed orders. Meanwhile, Koenig is found and captured. Elsewhere, Coral is interrogated by Oberst Johann Braun in a concentration camp. Meanwhile, the Howling Commandos parachute behind enemy lines. Meanwhile, Klaus is captured and imprisoned with Koenig. Coral is taken to a V-2 rocket base, where the Howlers are waiting. Klaus and Koenig escape, and proceed to the concentration camp where Coral was, but shes already gone. They proceed to the V-2 rocket base, where Oberst Braun is planning on bombing Berlin, not Britain, to end the war. Everyone meets up and storms the base, stopping Brauns plans. Klaus dies, but everyone else escapes. 
pg20: next day 
Back at base, Sgt. Fury brings official charges of desertion against Koenig. 

References: 
Continued from last issue, and next issue will wrap up this change to the status quo, allowing all of the Howlers to appear in Annual 4 during the Battle of the Bulge. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #79 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, Reb Ralston, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg20 
Koenigs Court-Martial is completed and hes cleared of all charges. Sawyer explains to Fury that Koenig was spying for the Allies and that he never defected in the first place. Shortly afterwards, theyre sent on a mission in the Bavarian Alps. After completing the assignment, Fury finally accepts Eric back into the Howlers. 

References: 
Noted as being on 14 August, 1944. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #81 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, Reb Ralston, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Capt. Simon Savage, Eva Braun 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg2 
Fury and the Howlers read about college football All-American Fred Jones in Stars and Stripes. 
pg3 
All-American Fred Jones informs his coach that hes been drafted, and he plans to continue his professional football career after the wars over. 
pg4 
All-American Fred Jones starts his basic training. 
pg5: 12 weeks later 
Capt. Sawyer introduces the newest Howler to Sgt. Fury: college football All-American Fred Jones. 
pg6: over the next few weeks 
The Howling Commandos fight in Europe. 
pg7-pg15pn4: shortly afterward 
Capt. Sawyer gives Fred Jones the Bronze Star, and then gives the Howlers their mission: kidnap the vacationing Eva Braun! They parachute into France and meet their underground contact, who leads them to the chateau. 
pg15pn5-pg20pn1: next day 
The Howlers attack, but its a trap. They escape via Capt. Savage and the Sea Wolf, but fail in capturing Braun, and Fred Jones is injured. 
pg20pn2-pg20pn6: a few days later 
Capt. Sawyer is pleased with the information that Fred Jones obtained during the mission, revealing that Brauns vacation was a cover story to set up a V-2 rocket base in France. However, the injury he sustained required his leg to be amputated. 

References: 
Hey! Its Captain Savage. Hes bearded here, so most likely after issue 18 of his book, and before issue 19.(he begins to grow it back in 18, and he's fully bearded again in 19) 

This issue takes place over a vast amount of time, from the spring football season to the fall season. Fred Jones undergoes basic training in the middle of this, and then joins up with the Howlers. Ill suggest a placement for the first two pages for the Howlers,(noted with '**') but if we dont want to split the book, then ignore the placement for pg1-pg2. If we do want to split it, then the first portion has to occur when Eric was with the Howlers. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #83 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, Reb Ralston, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Bull McGiveney, Agent of 1,000 Faces 

Synopsis: 
pg1 
Man-Mountain McCoy wins a wrestling match. 
pg2 
The Howling Commandos lose to McGiveneys Maulers on the obstacle portion of the inter-service squad championship. 
pg3pn1-pg3pn3: same day as pg1 
Ma-Mountain McCoy receives a letter letting him know hes being drafted. 
pg3pn4-pg5: same day as pg2 
McGiveney gloats, because wrestling is the next match, and hes sure his squad will win. He meets Capt. Sawyer in his office, where he informs him that Man-Mountain McCoy is the newest member of the Maulers. 
pg6-pg7: next day 
Fury reads the newest issue of Stars and Stripes, which reveals that Man-Mountain McCoy will compete in the wrestling portion of the inter-service squad championship for the Maulers. 
pg8-pg16: weeks later 
After winning several matches, its down to Dugan and McCoy for the wrestling championship. Meanwhile, Nazis plan to assassinate the Howlers at the championship match. Elsewhere, the Howlers and Maulers get into a bar fight and are thrown into the guardhouse. Only Dugan and McCoy escape the MPs. 
pg17-pg20: next day 
Sawyer gives Fury and McGiveney five weeks of hard labor for being idiots, which means theyll miss the championship match. That night, the Nazis have to change their plans, so they acquire the help of the Agent of 1,000 faces. He poses as Dum Dum Dugan and captures McCoy, and Dugan himself when he interrupts. 

References: 
Continued next issue! 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #84 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, Reb Ralston, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer, Bull McGiveney, Agent of 1,000 Faces 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg20 
The Agent of 1,000 Faces takes Dugan and McCoy to a holding cell in the English countryside. The Agent visits Capt. Sawyer in disguise, who then gets Fury and McGiveney to free the captives. Once they do, Dugan and McCoy reveal that they wont fight each other in the championship. 

References: 
Continued from last issue! 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #86 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, Reb Ralston, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sam Sawyer-FB 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg8 
The Howlers advance on a town in France and Izzy runs into an old acquaintance of his, Kevin Kenner, Freanch Resistance leader. 
pg9pn1-pg9pn3-FB: that morning 
Capt. Sawyer gives the Howlers their mission, and that theyll be assisted by Kevin Kenner. 
Pg9pn4-pg9-FB: ten years earlier 
Izzy and Kevin get into a tussle with Chris Macek. 
pg10-pg11pn1-FB 
Izzy remembers that Kevin moved to France when war in Europe broke out and joined the French Resistance. Sawyer informs them that theyll be rescuing Dr. Rueben Jabokwitz, whos working against his will with the Germans developing biological weapons. 
pg11pn2-pg20: same day as pg8 
As the Howlers fight, Izzy wakes up and Kenner admits he and Jabokwitz are working with the Nazis. He overpowers Kevin and kills them both. 

References: 
Dum Dum names Nick Mr. Safety, 1944. 

Izzys double FlashBack is ten years earlier than this, so 1934. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #88 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sawyer, Gen. Patton, Gen. Montgomery, Gen. Eisenhower-BTS 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg10: July, 1943 
Sgt. Fury breaks up a fight between Reb and Pinky. Meanwhile in Italy, Gen. Patton decides to, against orders, advance on Palermo, then to Messina. In England, Capt. Sawyer tells the Howlers to prepare for an assignment while Patton liberates Palermo. 
pg11-pg20: next day 
After checking in on wounded soldiers, and slapping one, Patton receives orders from Eisenhower to continue to Messina. Meanwhile, Capt. Sawyer sends the Howlers to assist Patton. Once they parachute into Italy they provide a second flank for Pattons forces. They eventually take Messina where they see both Montgomery and Patton. 

References: 
A stand-alone story, set in July 1943 while Patton races Montgomery to Messina. Thats right, this takes place out of publication order. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #90 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig 

Synopsis: 
pg1-pg7 
As the Howlers wait for Gabe to join them at a bar, he captured by Nazis and taken to Germany. However, the plane hes in is shot down and the officer in charge of his capture handcuffs them together and he parachutes out. They land in snowy Europe. 
pg8-pg14: next day 
Gabe and the Nazi officer wake up and come to blows. During the fight, the key to the handcuffs is lost, and they eventually begin to make their way across the countryside. 
pg15-pg20: next day 
As an American patrol nears them, the Nazi officer attempts to kill Gabe, but hes forced to kill him instead. 

References: 
Its winter and snowy in 1944. 

Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #92 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Reb Ralston, Gabe Jones, Izzy Cohen, Dino Manelli, Percival Pinkerton, Eric Koenig, Capt. Sawyer 

Synopsis: 
pg1-2pn4 
The Howlers leave their submarine transport and make their way to shore. 
pg2pn5-pg4pn3-FB: previous day 
Capt. Sawyer introduces Cpl. Tom Tanaka to the Howlers and gives them their mission: destroy an experimental German rocket base disguised as a hospital. 
pg4pn4-pg18pn1: same day as pg2pn4 
The Howlers arrive on shore and make their way to the rocket base. They succeed in the mission, but Tanaka is killed. 
pg18pn2: next day 
Sawyer tells Fury the he wants him to fly to the States and inform Tanakas parents of his death in person. 
pg18pn3-pg19: next day 
Fury flies to Wyoming and discovers that Tanakas parents live in a relocation center for Japanese-Americans. 

References: 
Nothing, really. 

Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. vol3 #3-#5-FB shows Baron Strucker meeting the Gnobian aliens, and exterminating the town of Gruenstadt. Its already in the MCP, and its noted as happening in the summer of 1944. 

Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. vol3 #11-FB 
Appearances: 
Sgt. Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, Reb Ralston 

Synopsis: 
pg7pn3-pg9pn4-FB 
Sgt. Fury and the Howling Commandos parachute into occupied France to meet the local Maquis. Theyre ambushed by Nazi troops, but defeat them with the help of Murdo MacKay, chaplain and sole survivor of the Leigh Volunteers. 

References: 
France is still considered occupied, so probably before D-Day. Also, The Howlers parachute in with an American parachute platoon(not stated, but heavily implied) so most likely in early 1944. 

Some placement suggestions! 

FURY, SGT. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 
M/CP 77/3 
M/CP 78/2 
M/CP 79/2 
SGTF 49 (10/43) 
 
SGTF 63 
CS 11 
SGTF 64 
NA: AAFES 3 
**SGTF 81 (1-2) 
*NF3 11-FB 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
SGTF 65 
 
SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 75-FB 
SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
SGTF 73-FB 
SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 75 
NF3 3-FB 
NF3 4-FB 
NF3 5-FB 
*SGTF 76 
*SGTF 77 
*SGTF 78 
*SGTF 79 (08/14/44) 
SGTF 110 
*SGTF 81 (3-20) 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
*SGTF 86-FB 
*SGTF 86 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW (10/44) 
WX2 14-FB 
*SGTF 90 
*SGTF 92-FB 
*SGTF 92 
CA3 20/2-FB 
CA3 20/2 
CA3 21/2 
SGTF@ 4 (6-30)-FB (12/44) 
 


DUGAN, TIMOTHY ALOYISIOUS CADWALLADER "DUM DUM" 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 
M/CP 77/3 
M/CP 78/2 
M/CP 79/2 
SGTF 49 (10/43) 
 
SGTF 63 
CS 11 
SGTF 64 
NA: AAFES 3 
**SGTF 81 (1-2) 
*NF3 11-FB 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
SGTF 65 
 
SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 75-FB 
SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
SGTF 73-FB 
SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 75 
NF3 3-FB 
NF3 4-FB 
NF3 5-FB 
*SGTF 77 
*SGTF 78 
*SGTF 79 (08/14/44) 
SGTF 110 
*SGTF 81 (3-20) 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
*SGTF 86-FB 
*SGTF 86 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
*SGTF 90 
*SGTF 92-FB 
*SGTF 92 
CA3 20/2-FB 
CA3 20/2-BTS 
CA3 21/2 
SGTF@ 4 (6-30)-FB (12/44) 
 


RALSTON, ROBERT "REB" 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 
M/CP 77/3 
M/CP 78/2 
M/CP 79/2 
SGTF 49 (10/43) 
 
SGTF 63 
CS 11 
SGTF 64 
**SGTF 81 (1-2) 
*NF3 11-FB 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
SGTF 65 
 
SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 75-FB 
SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
SGTF 73-FB 
SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 75 
NF3 3-FB 
NF3 4-FB 
NF3 5-FB 
*SGTF 77 
*SGTF 78 
*SGTF 79 (08/14/44) 
SGTF 110 
*SGTF 81 (3-20) 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
*SGTF 86-FB 
*SGTF 86 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
*SGTF 90 
*SGTF 92-FB 
*SGTF 92 
CA3 20/2-FB-BTS 
CA3 20/2-BTS 
CA3 21/2 
SGTF@ 4 (6-30)-FB (12/44) 
 


MANELLI, DINO 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 
M/CP 77/3 
M/CP 78/2 
M/CP 79/2 
SGTF 49 (10/43) 
 
SGTF 63 
CS 11 
SGTF 64 
**SGTF 81 (1-2) 
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44) 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
SGTF 65 
 
SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 75-FB 
SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
SGTF 73-FB 
SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 75 
NF3 3-FB 
NF3 4-FB 
NF3 5-FB 
*SGTF 77 
*SGTF 78 
*SGTF 79 (08/14/44) 
SGTF 110 
*SGTF 81 (3-20) 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
*SGTF 86-FB 
*SGTF 86 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
*SGTF 90 
*SGTF 92-FB 
*SGTF 92 
SGTF@ 4-FB (12/44) 
 


JONES, GABRIEL "GABE" 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 
M/CP 77/3 
M/CP 78/2 
M/CP 79/2 
SGTF 49 (10/43) 
 
SGTF 63 
CS 11 
SGTF 64 
**SGTF 81 (1-2) 
*NF3 11-FB 
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44) 
SGTF 65 
 
SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 75-FB 
SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
SGTF 73-FB 
SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 75 
NF3 3-FB 
NF3 4-FB 
NF3 5-FB 
*SGTF 77 
*SGTF 78 
*SGTF 79 (08/14/44) 
SGTF 110 
*SGTF 81 (3-20) 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
*SGTF 86-FB 
*SGTF 86 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
*SGTF 90 
*SGTF 92-FB 
*SGTF 92 
CA3 20/2-FB 
CA3 20/2-BTS 
CA3 21/2 
SGTF@ 4 (6-30)-FB (12/44) 
 

(Hey look! Izzys real name!) 
COHEN, ISADORE "IZZY" 
*SGTF 86-FB-FB (1934) 
SGTF 34-FB (12/41) 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 
M/CP 77/3 
M/CP 78/2 
M/CP 79/2 
SGTF 49 (10/43) 
 
SGTF 63 
CS 11 
SGTF 64 
**SGTF 81 (1-2) 
SGTF 65 
 
SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 75-FB 
SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
SGTF 73-FB 
SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 75 
NF3 3-FB 
NF3 4-FB 
NF3 5-FB 
*SGTF 77 
*SGTF 78 
*SGTF 79 (08/14/44) 
SGTF 110 
*SGTF 81 (3-20) 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
*SGTF 86-FB 
*SGTF 86 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
*SGTF 90 
*SGTF 92-FB 
*SGTF 92 
SGTF@ 4-FB (12/44) 
 


PINKERTON, PERCIVAL "PINKY" 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 
M/CP 77/3 
M/CP 78/2 
M/CP 79/2 
SGTF 49 (10/43) 
 
SGTF 63 
CS 11 
SGTF 64 
**SGTF 81 (1-2) 
SGTF 65 
 
SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 75-FB 
SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
SGTF 73-FB 
SGTF 73 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 75 
NF3 3-FB 
NF3 4-FB 
NF3 5-FB 
*SGTF 77 
*SGTF 78 
*SGTF 79 (08/14/44) 
*SGTF 81 (3-20) 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
*SGTF 86-FB 
*SGTF 86 
SGTF 119-FB 
SGTF 119 (10/10/44) 
CA/NF: OWW 1 (10/44) 
*SGTF 90 
*SGTF 92-FB 
*SGTF 92 
SGTF@ 4 (6-30)-FB (12/44) 
 


SAWYER, CAPTAIN SAMUEL 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 
M/CP 77/3 
SGTF 51 (11/28/43) 
 
SGTF 70 
*SGTF 75-FB 
SGTF 72 
SGTF@ 2 (06/06/44) 
SGTF 73-FB 
SGTF 74 
*SGTF 77 
*SGTF 78 
*SGTF 79 (08/14/44) 
*SGTF 81 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
*SGTF 86-FB 
SGTF 119-FB 
*SGTF 92-FB 
*SGTF 92 
SGTF@ 4-FB (12/44) 
 


KOENIG, ERIC 
 
SGTF 48 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 
M/CP 77/3 
M/CP 78/2 
M/CP 79/2 
SGTF 49 (10/43) 
 
SGTF 63 
CS 11 
SGTF 64 
**SGTF 81 (1-2) 
SGTF 65 
 
SGTF 71 (05/44) 
*SGTF 77 
*SGTF 78 
*SGTF 79 (08/14/44) 
SGTF 110 
*SGTF 81 (3-20) 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
*SGTF 86-FB 
*SGTF 86 
*SGTF 90 
*SGTF 92-FB 
*SGTF 92 
SGTF@ 4-FB (12/44) 
 


SAVAGE, CAPT. SIMON SKIPPER 
 
CS 18 
*SGTF 81 
CS 19 
SGTF@ 1 (KOREA) 


MCGIVENEY, SGT. BULL 
 
SGTF 73-FB 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 
SGTF@ 4-FB (12/44) 
SGTF@ 3 (KOREA) 

FURY, LT. JACK 
SGTF 76-FB (1916) 

HUNT, GEN. ROBERT 
SGTF 76-FB (1916) 
SGTF 76 

MONTGOMERY, SIR BERNARD LAW 
INV 30 
SGTF 118-FB 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 

EISENHOWER, GEN. DWIGHT D. 
*SGTF 88-BTS (07/43) 
SGTF@ 2 
SGTF 108-FB 

PATTON, GEN. GEORGE S. 
*SGTF 88 (07/43) 

BRAUN, EVA 
SGTF@ 2 
*SGTF 81 
SAGAHT 3 
WI? 4 

AGENT OF 1,000 FACES 
SGTF 58 
SGTF 59 
SGTF 60-FB 
SGTF 60 
*SGTF 83 
*SGTF 84 

And that's it! For those interested in how it all fits together, I've been updating Fury's WWII chronology over here.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Thread 47

Posted: 28 Apr 2007 05:22 am    Post subject: Marvel Age Annual #4 & Damage Control!
By JLH

As the Damage Control slogan says, "Somebody's got to do it!" 

------------------------------------ 
MARVEL AGE ANNUAL #4 [1988] 

The first story, a 5 page untitled Wolverine tale tying in with Marvel Comics Presents and featuring a huge number of mutants, is already in the Project. 

There's a text article running between the remaining stories, highlighting the next year of storylines in all the Marvel books (including a few that never happened, like a monthly Longshot series, with the original mini's creative team of Nocenti and Adams!) There's also an ad for the big ol' Marvel Universe poster, and a fun little Marvel Trivia Quiz ("26. Spellbinger's predecessor and deadly enemy was: A) Zxaxz, B) Zxxax, C) Xzazx, D) Zzzax". Uhh... fun, but not easy.) 

-------------- 
Story 2: 
Speedball, the Masked Marvel in "The Mystery of Crooked Face!" 
Plotter/Penciler: Steve Ditko 
Scripter: Roger Stern 
Inker: Jackson Guice 

Cast: 
SPEEDBALL/ROBBIE BALDWIN 
BALDWIN, JUSTIN 
BALDWIN, MADELYNE "MADDIE" NAYLOR 
CROOKED FACE/EDDIE MAGEE 
MAGEE, TOMMY 

Other characters: 
Various cops (including Al, the guy who's got it in for Robbie) 


Summary: The Crooked Face, a felon with a mask featuring a (you guessed it) crooked face, spends months robbing various places. One day, someone spots him taking off his mask. This leads to Tommy Magee being fingered as the man whose face is the real face of Crooked Face! But at trial, prosecuted by ADA Justin Baldwin, it's revealed Tommy had an airtight alibi! Justin's family, famous wife Maddie and son Robbie, are by his side, while the public looks at the lawyer as a laughingstock for wasting the city's time and money on someone innocent. Maddie ticks off the real Crooked Face with some comments on the news, prompting him to hunt her down. Unbeknowst to him, her son Robbie can turn into Speedball, the Masked Marvel, and does son when he spots Crooked Face skulking around the theater his mom works at! Speedball runs him off, and follows after him to the Baldwin residence as he tries to rob the place. Justin arrives to find the villain unconscious, unaware of Speedball's involvement. As it turns out, Crooked Face is actually Eddie Magee, twin brother of Tommy! Arrested, Eddie reveals he was working for Tommy on all the robberies, thus sealing his brother's fate alongside his. Justin's reputation is restored, and his family is happy. 


Continuity notes: Robbie's been Speedball for a short while. He mentions the cop Al has "had it in for me ever since the accident", imply it's not too recent. He also bemoans lacking better control over his powers, in terms of timing leaps. 


Calendar notes: Not internal to the story, but to the issue itself. Issues promoted start with Aug 88 at earliest. The Silver Surfer "Judgment Day" graphic novel ad claims it'll be out in July. Is THIS really Speedball's first published appearance, technically? 


-------------- 
Story 3: 
Damage Control "The Sales Pitch" 
Writer: Dwayne McDuffie 
Penciler: Ernie Colon 
Inker: Jon D'Agostino 

Cast: 
HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER 
ACKERDSON, HENRY 


Summary: Vice President in charge of marketing of Damage Control, Inc, Henry Ackerdson, visits the Hulk at his current job, as a legbreaker in the Coliseum casino in Las Vegas. Damage Control wants to hire Hulk as a spokesman for the company. Hulk gets rough with the wimpy man, but does read his pamphlet, learning more about the company ("Manhattan-based engineering and construction firm that specializes in the clean-up, repair and restoration of property damaged by super-powered activity"). But he's insulted by Henry's mention of the slogan for the ad campaign being "Damage Control: We clean up the Hulk's messes. We can certainly handle yours!" So Hulk rips up a roulette wheel and stuffs it over Henry, before having some guards haul him away. Henry asks if he should tell his boss that he'll think it over. 


Continuity notes: Hulk is in his Joe Fixit persona, working at the Coliseum casino. 

A photo montage showing the Damage Control employees (John Porter, Robin Chapel, Albert Cleary, Eugene Sailors, Lenny, Mrs. Hoag, "Bart" Rozum, and Anne) appears in the sales pamphlet. As such, this would probably take place between issues 1 and 2 of the first Damage Control mini-series, in a broader sense. 

There's a quote from Wasp and another from Mr Fantastic in the pamphlet. I'd list those as BTS, but you don't know how long before this story they made those quotes. Wasp is listed as "former Avengers chairperson" and mentions D.C. has serviced the Avengers almost since they began, and Reed is listed as "former leader of the Fantastic Four", and he gives kudos to the company for aided SHIELD Corps of Engineers with building the Four Freedom's Plaza. 

Also mentioned in the pamphlet, D.C. "restored a devastated Hell's Kitchen after a crazed G.I. nearly leveled it", referring to Daredevil "Born Again." 

Eugene Sailors has his named changed to Eugene Strausser during the first mini. I don't know why, but he's listed as Stausser more often than Sailors, so I guess we'll have to ignore it. 

There's a shot of Thor hitting a robot with his hammer. Nothing noteworthy about it, but you completionists..! 

You gotta love the mention of the Superhero Insurance called EAA (Extraordinary Activity Assurance) and New York City's FedDAS (Federal Disaster Area Stipend). 


-------------- 
Story 4: 
A Shadowline Saga 
Written by: Margaret Clark and D.G. Chichester 
Penciled by: Denys Cowan 
Inked by: Keith Williams 

Epic's Shadowline is non-canon, so I'll refrain from doing an analysis (through look for the upcoming MAX book: "Schreck the Third, aka Terror Inc Returns!") 


------------------------------------ 

Since I'm in the area, here's listings for everyone missing from the MCP that appeared in the three Damage Control mini-series! I haven't a clue if any of them popped up in the asinine "Wolverine versus Damage Control as a crooked company, which was more or less already done in Damcon2 2" Civil War story, so additions always welcome. 


SPEEDBALL/ROBBIE BALDWIN 
PPTSS@ 11/4 
{SB 1/2} 
SB 1 
**M/AGE@ 4/2 
ASM@ 22 


BALDWIN, JUSTIN 
PPTSS@ 11/4 
{SB 1} 
**M/AGE@ 4/2 
SB 2 

BALDWIN, MADELYNE "MADDIE" NAYLOR 
PPTSS@ 11/4 
{SB 1} 
**M/AGE@ 4/2 
ASM@ 22 

**CROOKED FACE/EDDIE MAGEE 
M/AGE@ 4/2 

**MAGEE, TOMMY 
M/AGE@ 4/2 


HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER 
... 
H2 355 
**M/AGE@ 4/3 
W2 7 
... 

**ACKERDSON, HENRY 
M/AGE@ 4/3 
DAMCON 3 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3-FB 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**HOAG, ANNE MARIE 
M/CP 19/4 
DAMCON 1 
DAMCON 2 
DAMCON 3 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 

**BALLINGER, LENNY 
DAMCON 4-FB 
{M/CP 19/4} 
DAMCON 1 
DAMCON 2 
DAMCON 3 
DAMCON 4 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 2 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**PORTER, JOHN 
M/CP 19/4 
DAMCON 1 
DAMCON 2 
DAMCON 3 
DAMCON 4 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 2 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**ANNE 
DAMCON 1 
DAMCON 2 
DAMCON 3 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 2 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**ROZUM, BART 
DAMCON 1 
DAMCON 2 
DAMCON 3 
DAMCON 4 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 2 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**CHAPEL, ROBIN 
DAMCON 4-FB 
{DAMCON 1} 
DAMCON 2 
DAMCON 3 
DAMCON 4 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 2 
DAMCON2 3-FB 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**CLEARY, ALBERT 
DAMCON 4-FB 
{DAMCON 1} 
DAMCON 2 
DAMCON 3 
DAMCON 4 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 2 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**STRAUSSER, EUGENE "GENE" 
DAMCON 4-FB 
{DAMCON 1} 
DAMCON 2 
DAMCON 3 
DAMCON 4 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 2 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 

**LEAHY, MARIE 
DAMCON 2 
DAMCON2 3 

**WASHINGTON, ROBERT 
DAMCON 1 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 3 

**SOURIS, MICHEL 
DAMCON2 1 
DAMCON2 2 
DAMCON2 3-FB 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 

**KOCH, ED 
DAMCON2 2 

**LIPPERT, RAY JIM 
DAMCON2 2 
DAMCON2 3 
DAMCON2 4 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**DITTOMASTER 
DAMCON2 4 

**SURE, LT. STEVEN 
DAMCON3 1-FB 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 

**LOCICIERO, A.J. 
DAMCON3 1 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3-FB-BTS 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**EDIFICE REX/REX RANDOLPH 
DAMCON 1 
DAMCON3 1-BTS 
DAMCON3 2 
DAMCON3 3-FB 
DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 

**BRANDO, MARLON 
DAMCON3 3-FB 

**LONG, SHELLY 
DAMCON3 3-FB 

**COBURN, JAMES 
DAMCON3 3-FB 

**WALKER, JIMMY "J.J." 
DAMCON3 3-FB 

**CANDY, JOHN 
DAMCON3 3-FB 

THUNDERBALL/DR. ELIOT FRANKLIN 
... 
PPTSS 126 
**DAMCON 1-FB 
DAMCON 1 
... 

THOR/"DR. DONALD BLAKE"/"SIGURD JARLSON II"/"JAKE OLSON"/"LOREN OLSON" [ASGARDIAN] 
... 
M/CP 4/4 
**DAMCON 1 
A 291 
... 

PROFESSOR X/CHARLES FRANCIS XAVIER 
... 
UX 192 
DAMCON 4 (should be changed to DAMCON 4-FB) 
UX@ 8 
... 

BUSH, GEORGE 
MK:DWF 
**DAMCON2 1-BTS 
A 327-BTS 
... 

LEAP-FROG/VINCENT PATILIO 
... 
M/FAN 32 
**DAMCON2 2 
PPTSS 185 
... 

STANKOWICZ, FABIAN 
... 
CA 366 
**DAMCON2 3 
CA 367 
... 

GYRICH, HENRY PETER 
... 
CA 354 
**DAMCON2 4 
FF 335 
... 

DOCTOR OCTOPUS/OTTO OCTAVIUS 
... 
SOLOA 17 
**DAMCON2 4-BTS 
M/CP 127/2 
... 

WONDER MAN/SIMON WILLIAMS 
... 
A 333 
**DAMCON3 3-FB 
**DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 
AWC 70 
... 

BEAST/HENRY "HANK" P. MCCOY 
... 
XF 70 
**DAMCON3 3 
DAMCON3 4 
...

			*	*	*

Posted: 28 Apr 2007 10:30 am    
By jephyork
Director

Quote: 
>>>
Is THIS really Speedball's first published appearance, technically? 
<<<

Little-known fact, but yes it is. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 48

Posted: 08 Apr 2007 02:29 pm    Post subject: Duplicate listings
By Dhall

Please delete listings for Crown and Grace, and move thier apps. in M/CP 122/4 to Adam Crown, and GRACE, FRANCESCA LEXLEY as such: 


delete: 

CROWN 
[KOP2 9] 
M/CP 122/4 
[KOP2 10] 

delete: 

GRACE 
[KOP2 9] 
M/CP 122/4 
[KOP2 10] 


CROWN, ADAM 
KOP 14 
KOP 15 
KOP 16 
KOP 17 
KOP 18 
**M/CP 122/4 


GRACE, FRANCESCA LEXLEY 
KOP 1 
KOP 2 
KOP 3 
KOP 4 
KOP 6 
KOP 7 
KOP 8 
KOP 9 
KOP 10 
KOP 11 
KOP 12 
KOP 15 
KOP 16 
KOP 17 
KOP 18 
**M/CP 122/4 

Thanks!

			*	*	*

Thread 49

Posted: 17 Apr 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Coming from Marvel in July.
By Paul O'Brien
Director

The solicitations are now up. 

- CIVIL WAR CHRONICLES, beginning a complete reprint of CIVIL WAR and the major tie-in stories. No original material, from the look of it. 

- HALO: UPRISING. Four issue mini by Bendis and Maleev. This is a licensed book, so it's out of continuity. 

- MARVEL ILLUSTRATED: THE MAN IN THE IRON MASK. Six issue mini adapting the Alexander Dumas novel. They're serious about this new imprint. 

- ANNIHILATION: CONQUEST begins three miniseries, featuring Star-Lord, Wraith and Quasar. NOVA also begins a tie-in arc. 

- HANDBOOK UPDATE #3 includes Namor, Juggernaut and Shaman along with the usual range of lesser characters. 

- CHAMPIONS #1. Ongoing series by Matt Fraction and Barry Kitson about the Californian team from the Fifty State Initiative. 

- FANTASTIC FOUR AND POWER PACK is the latest miniseries from what's now a de facto ongoing POWER PACK title. 

- FANTASTIC FIVE gets a five-issue miniseries. 

- WORLD WAR HULK continues in WORLD WAR HULK #2, WORLD WAR HULK: FRONT LINE #2, HULK #108, WWH: GAMMA CORPS #1-2, WWH: X-MEN #2, AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE #4, GHOST RIDER #13, IRON MAN #20, ANT-MAN #10 and HEROES FOR HIRE #10, along with an issue of MARVEL SPOTLIGHT. 

- MARVEL ADVENTURES HULK begins. 

- GIANT-SIZE MARVEL ADVENTURES THE AVENGERS #1 (!) is by Jeff Parker and Leonard Kirk and guest stars the Agents of ATLAS. It's a time-travel story, so this might actually be canon. 

- MYSTIC ARCANA: BLACK KNIGHT. Part two of the MYSTIC ARCANA build-up. Hey, Roy Thomas is co-writing this. Between that and the novel adaptations, he's evidently back in favour. 

- THE OFFICIAL TAROT OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE. Sounds like one of those vaguely Handbook-type things written from the perspective of people within the Marvel Universe, this time about mystical characters. 

- NEW AVENGERS/TRANSFORMERS is a four issue miniseries. Seriously, it is. Probably non-canon, since TRANSFORMERS was declared out of continuity some years ago, but you never know. 

- SHE-HULK #21 promises to be "the issue that fixes 90% of Marvel's continuity problems - from NOW ON!" 

- SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP: M.O.D.O.K.'S 11. A five-issue miniseries. This sounds great. 

- THUNDERBOLTS: DESPERATE MEASURES. A Penance one-shot by the creative team who did his stories in FRONT LINE. Hold me back. 

- THOR. Ongoing title by J Michael Straczynski and Olivier Coipel. Buried halfway down the solicitations. Weird placement. 

- DEADPOOL/GLI SUMMER FUN SPECACULAR. Speaks for itself. 

- WOLVERINE: ORIGINS gets an annual. 

- LAURELL K. HAMILTON'S ANITA BLAKE - VAMPIRE HUNTER: THE FIRST DEATH sets a likely record for the longest title ever. It's a two-issue DBPro mini, and of course it's out of continuity. 

- Collections (other than the usual ones for recent storylines) include a sixth volume of Marvel Masterworks: Thor; a Devil Dinosaur omnibus collecting the Kirby issues; the first volume of Invaders Classic (!); a fourth volume of Hulk Visionaries: Peter David; Essential Defenders vol 3; and Essential Spider-Woman vol 2.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Apr 2007 05:15 pm    
By Somebody

Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- FANTASTIC FOUR AND POWER PACK is the latest miniseries from what's now a de facto ongoing POWER PACK title. 
<<<

Although Fred van Lente is writing this one, after Marc Sumerak did all the previous ones 


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- GIANT-SIZE MARVEL ADVENTURES THE AVENGERS #1 (!) is by Jeff Parker and Leonard Kirk and guest stars the Agents of ATLAS. It's a time-travel story, so this might actually be canon. 
<<<

It's not, and Parker's been clear about that (amongst other things, it's got Namora in the 50s version of the team). 

What's weird is that this story was originally solicited last month for MAAdv #14, and along the line someone's decided that cancelling that, doing this and bunging What If? v1 #9 in the back was a good idea. Bizarre. 


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- NEW AVENGERS/TRANSFORMERS is a four issue miniseries. Seriously, it is. Probably non-canon, since TRANSFORMERS was declared out of continuity some years ago, but you never know. 
<<<

Non-canon. I asked about this on the IDW boards when it was first announced, and it's one of those "they exist on the same Earth" things, with the IDW-continuity Transformers as they were between the Infiltration and Escalation minis (and MU characters as they were immediately before Civil War). 

Even though the Optimus Prime on the cover isn't the IDW version, natch. 


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- SHE-HULK #21 promises to be "the issue that fixes 90% of Marvel's continuity problems - from NOW ON!" 
<<<

*urge to reach through across the phone network and slap Dan Slott rising... rising...* 


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
-- SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP: M.O.D.O.K.'S 11. A five-issue miniseries. This sounds great. 
<<<

Agreed.

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Apr 2007 10:23 pm    
By Col_Fury

Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- CIVIL WAR CHRONICLES, beginning a complete reprint of CIVIL WAR and the major tie-in stories. No original material, from the look of it.  
<<<

As I understand it, they'll be reprinted in chronological order. 


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- CHAMPIONS #1. Ongoing series by Matt Fraction and Barry Kitson about the Californian team from the Fifty State Initiative.  
<<<

Is it just me, or does this sound like what X-Force/X-Statix started as? Just without Milligan... 


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- SHE-HULK #21 promises to be "the issue that fixes 90% of Marvel's continuity problems - from NOW ON!"  
<<<

Heh. 


Somebody wrote: 
>>>
Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP: M.O.D.O.K.'S 11. A five-issue miniseries. This sounds great.  
<<<

Agreed. 
<<<

Oh, hell yes. 


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- THUNDERBOLTS: DESPERATE MEASURES. A Penance one-shot by the creative team who did his stories in FRONT LINE. Hold me back.  
<<<

They're really trying to convince people this was a good move, aren't they? 


Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- WOLVERINE: ORIGINS gets an annual.  
<<<

...why? 

No, really. Why?
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it." -the President

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Apr 2007 06:05 am 
By Starman

Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- CIVIL WAR CHRONICLES, beginning a complete reprint of CIVIL WAR and the major tie-in stories. No original material, from the look of it.  
<<<

As I understand it, they'll be reprinted in chronological order. 
<<<

Which isn't always the same as our interpretation of the chronological order, but one can always hope.
_________________
- Stefan 

"When it comes to reassuring a traumatized 19-year-old, I'm about as expert as a palsy victim doing brain surgery with a pipe wrench." 
- John Hartigan in Sin City (2005)

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Apr 2007 09:03 pm    
By Paul Bourcier
Director


Well, I doubt it would be in true chronological order, since that would involve splitting issues into segments to the point in which panels would keep flipping from one comic to another.
_________________
Paul B.

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Apr 2007 10:25 pm    
By JLH

Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
- THUNDERBOLTS: DESPERATE MEASURES. A Penance one-shot by the creative team who did his stories in FRONT LINE. Hold me back.  
<<<

They're really trying to convince people this was a good move, aren't they? 
<<<

What does the Tbolts' editor have against Mark Gruenwald characters from 1994? First Jack Flag, now Americop. It reeks of laziness to me. There's loads of lameos in Marvel's history, targeting two of the three thus far from one guy's specific era of a run seems biased instead of organic. 

Should Free Spirit show up, then that'll really seal it.

			*	*	*

Thread 50

Posted: 17 Apr 2007 02:54 pm    Post subject: Rutland Halloween with Thor/Beast/Defenders/JLA
By wolframbane

I was reviewing the X-Men Index #4, and there is a reference to Amazing Adventures #16 (a Beast story) having a crossover with Thor #207, Marvel Feature #2 (Defenders/Dr.Strange) and even Justice League of America #103. Has anyone a good analysis of this crossover? And do the characters of Marvel actually encounter the JLA of Earth-1?

			*	*	*

Posted: 17 Apr 2007 07:41 pm    
By Ant-Man

It's the staff members that cross over, instead of the heroes. 

Steve Engelhart, Gerry Conway, Len Wein and Glynis Wein appear in the Amazing Adventures, Thor and Justice League of America issues. I'm not sure about the Marvel Feature issue.
_________________
PUM SPAK 
Justice is Served

Last edited by Ant-Man on 18 Apr 2007 05:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Apr 2007 12:09 pm    
By wolframbane

According to the X-Men Index #4, Marvel Feature #2 was actually published during Halloween the year before (1971), but chronological analysis by George Olshevski has it occurring simultaneously with Thor and Amazing Adventures. Specifically, in AA2 16 Juggernaut was trapped in the Oblivion dimension, and he learns that by drawing upon the power of Dr. Strange who had trapped him there, as Strange had been present in Rutland on Halloween the year before in M/FEA 2 (a topical ref). The X-Men Index revises this so they were actually in Rutland simultaneously, and Juggernaut was connected to Strange this Halloween night. Thus, Strange as not actually part of the crossover per se, but was retroactively added later.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Apr 2007 12:21 pm    
By wolframbane

Considering that all these events occurred in the same place at the same time, and often overlapping to a degree (like when Loki was chasing after a car in T 207, it was actually Juggernaut who was driving it in AA2 16), should we include BTS listing for the issues in questions for the characters who appeared? We may be able to overlook the JLA 103 reference, as that occurred on Earth-1, unless there was some actual dimension hopping by Steve Engelhart, Gerry Conway, Len Wein and Glynis Wein. 

For Beast, it would look like: 
A 140-FB 
AA2 16 ~ T 207-BTS ~ M/FEA 2-BTS 
H2 161 

Characters in question would include (although until I can fully review the issues this list is not exhaustive): 
Beast, Juggernaut, Vera Cantor, Thor, Loki, Absorbing Man, Dr. Strange, 
Steve Engelhart, Gerry Conway, Len Wein, Glynis Wein, Tom Fagan, Hildegard, Doctor Strange, Dormammu. 

Unnofficially through JLA 103, we have Superman, Batman, Flash, Hawkman, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Felix Faust, Phantom Stranger. 

This is of course not counting all the people from Rutland who have dressed up as superheroes, like 'Commando America'.

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Apr 2007 12:25 pm    
By jephyork
Director

BTS listings should only be given out if scenes truly overlapped. Just because all three books took place in the town of Rutland doesn't mean that all the characters were BTS in all the books. They could have been on the other side of town for all we know. 

I'm intrigued by the "Juggernaut driving a car in AA2 #16 that was chased by Loki in T #207" statement, though. I'll have to look into that... 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Apr 2007 01:19 pm    
By wolframbane

I have found a site that has a few panels at least. 
http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/147/

			*	*	*

Posted: 18 Apr 2007 06:13 pm    
By jephyork
Director

Looks, from those panels, like the car-theft in Thor #207 isn't the same as the one in AA2 #16 -- it's the same as the one in JLA #103. When Juggy tries to steal the car, he doesn't even get it in gear before the Beast tackles him out of it. 

And Glynis disappeared three different ways in three different issues? Hmm. 

I oughtta track these down and give 'em a read. They look fun. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Posted: 19 Apr 2007 06:32 am    
By SKleefeld
Director

They are. I might also point you to Batman #237 -- it features the Rutland parade/party from a year earlier. Tom Fagan, I believe, is the only real person cited by name, but there are probably some "hidden" caricatures in there as well. By Denny O'Neil, Neal Adams and Dick Giordano, based on an idea from Harlan Ellison. This is THE comic that put me on the path comicdom in general.

			*	*	*

Posted: 20 Apr 2007 03:10 am    
By Enda80

http://www.ianpberger.com/Rutland_Halloween.htm 

The lowdown on Tom Fagan. 

Also, Fagan was first mentioned in a text piece in Detective Comics#327.
