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	Marvel Universe Forum
1. M/TIO 77 fb with the Howling Commandos
2. Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix
3. The canonicity of Marvel UK Comics
4. Marvel Monsters: Monsters on the Prowl
5. Peter David removing Bruce Jones stories
6. Ship/Professor/Prosh, Apocalypse
7. Index Question
8. New Avengers: Illuminati #4
9. Tony Stark in flashbacks in ORDER2 1
10. All Winners
11. Grimbat and Melnoa
12. Thanos War A 125 & CM 27-33
13. Captain Universe
14. Pharaoh Rama-Tut appearing in Cable
15. Vengeance/Mike Badalino appearances in Code of Honor
16. Lost She-Hulk/Morbius plot
17. Spider-Man fairy Tales#2 canon?
18. ASM 543
19. DB picking up Mjolnir
20. Blade and Spider-Man
21. Scott Camette (Thor 233)

	Issue Analysis Forum
22. July call for analyses
23. Punisher MAX 50
24. Werewolf by Night, vol 2 #1-6
25. Ghost Rider/Captain America: FEAR
26. Legion of Night 1-2
27. Target Presents: Reading to the Rescue! #4
28. Immortal Iron Fist #1-6
29. Black Panther: Panther's Prey 1-4
30. Fight-Man
31. Thor: Son of Asgard 7-12
32. Franklin Richards: Son of a Genius Super Summer Spectacular
33. Wolverine: Origins 16
34. Blade MAX 1-6
35. Franklin Richards: World Be Warned
36. Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. 7-12!
37. The 50s Revival: Captain America
38. Blade (1998/Strange Tales) #1-3
39. August call for analyses
40. Calendar; Punisher MAX 43-49
41. Blade (2006) #10-12
42. Blade (Vampire Hunter; 1999) #1-6 & 
43. The 50s Revival: Human Torch
44. Wolverine v3 56
45. Legion of Monsters: Satana/Morbius
46. Namor: The Early Years
47. Black Widow v2 #3
48. Marvel Boy v2 #6
49. X-51 9-12








Thread 1

Subject: M/TIO 77 fb with the Howling Commandos

Mar 31, 2007 11:39 am 
By Enda80

NF3 38-FB 
M/:LG 9 
M/:LG 10 
W/NF-FB 
**M/TIO 77-FB 
W2 -1 
BFF:BGL 1 
BFF:BGL 2 
FF 21 
FURY 1-FB 

As written, this was a fb to Ben Grimm on a mission with the Howlers during WW II. 

Nick Fury's Knights entry places this a few years after Mikel Fury was conceived, so it was not completely nullifed by the sliding timescale. I am not sure how to handle appearances by National Socialists or State Shinto miltarists. Perhaps they were affiliates of Sokka Gakkai, the Shield Society of Yukio Mishima, the Sunrise Society, the Odessa, or Hydra or that Emil Stein group D.A.N.T.E., or a BTS Hate-Monger or Arnim Zola that managed to take over one of those fictional postage stamp Asian or European countries? 

"Fury ultimately took D'Alexis into custody, and Jake's 
resentment turned into hatred. A few years later, Fury 
re-formed the Howling Commandos at least once more, 
for a mission with pilot Ben Grimm. "

			*	*	*

Apr 03, 2007 12:04 pm 
By Arthur
Director

Enda80 wrote 
As written, this was a fb to Ben Grimm on a mission with the Howlers during WW II.

You posit the listing for Grimm but other pertinent information is missing: 

"with the Howlers..." Which Howlers are in the flashback? 

Any clues as to when in the war the fb occurs? or where in the Howlers chronologies the fb should be placed?

			*	*	*

Apr 03, 2007 9:13 pm 
By Enda80

The Howlers appearing were: 
Nick Fury and the Howling Commandoes: Dum-Dum Dugan, Dino Manelli, Gabriel "Gabe" Jones, "Reb" Ralston, Izzy Cohen, Percy Pinkerton, Cpt. Sam Sawyer 

http://home.gate.net/~images/ww2b.html 

As originally written, this fb was to have taken place at some point during World War II. However, due to the sliding timescale, Fury's Marvel Knights Handbook places it within the last 20-40 years, a few years after Mikel Fury was conceived, as a I noted earlier. 

As I suggested, the presence of State Shinto Militarists or Nazis could be attributed to the Dragon-Lord from Everett's run on Sub-Mariner or Baron Zemo or the Sunrise Society...... 

For most of the Howlers, this would follow Sgt. Fury Annual#3. For Fury, it would follow the fb in the Wolverine/Fury Scorpio GN with Howard Chaykin.

			*	*	*

Apr 03, 2007 11:24 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Um, Sgt. Fury Annual 3 is a 'current day' story involving Fury as director of SHIELD, on the Helicarrier. Fury wasn't appointed director of SHIELD until after FF 21, so it can't be pushed to 20-40 years before FF 1. 

One of these days I'll have to track down Marvel Two-in-One 77, if only for the Fury appearance. Until I do, though, I'd hate to hazard a guess as to where this FB may go.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Apr 04, 2007 6:43 am 
By Enda80

Huh. Well, Fury's Marvel Knights Handbook treated it, Sgt. Fury@3, as happening in 1967 absolutely. I will have to submit an errata note.

			*	*	*

Apr 04, 2007 11:32 am 
By Enda80

I submitted a correction to the David Wiltfong. 

So for most of the Howlers, this MTIO#77 fb should follow Sgt Fury Annual#1, while for Nick Fury, it should follow the fbs in the Scorpion Connection with Amber D'Alexis, per the Nick Fury Marvel Knights Handbook entry, as I posted earlier, states it happened a few years after Mikel was conceived.

			*	*	*

Apr 07, 2007 7:25 pm 
By Arthur
Director

In case he pops up anywhere else, there's also a French guerrilla leader named CARLOS LeBLANC in the -fb

			*	*	*

Apr 07, 2007 10:25 pm 
By Enda80

Well, that makes things interesting. If this fb gets relocated to Southeast Asia, that would fit in with Sin Cong and other fictional former French colonies we have seen.

			*	*	*

Jul 15, 2007 8:36 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

I finally had a chance to track this down and read it. 

Obviously, this was intended to be a WWII Flashback. The Howlers are stationed together, something that was no longer the case as evidenced by SGTF@ 1, where they reteamed for Korea. Also, Sawyer was no longer Fury's C.O. after WWII, because he started working for the OSS directly after WWII, whereas Sawyer did not. In this FB, Sawyer is still Fury's C.O. Also, those are Nazi uniforms. 

The only problem with this being a WWII FlashBack is that Ben Grimm remembers it, and it's supposed to be Ben Grimm fighting in WWII. This isn't the only WWII appearance for Ben, he also appeared in Captain Savage 7. CS 7 is already listed in Ben's chronology before the Lost Generation, so I would say leave it until it's explained away.(like time-travel, his grandfather, or whatever) 

Assuming it's the same character in CS 7 & M/TIO-FB(which of course it is) I would say this works best as shortly after CS 7, but long enough for Lt. Grimm to recover from CS 7. So... 

Some placement suggestions! 

FURY, SGT. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH 
... 
SGTF 61 
*M/TIO 77-FB 
SGTF 63 
 


DUGAN, TIMOTHY ALOYISIOUS CADWALLADER "DUM DUM" 
... 
SGTF 61 
*M/TIO 77-FB 
SGTF 63 
 


RALSTON, ROBERT "REB" 
... 
SGTF 61 
*M/TIO 77-FB 
SGTF 63 
 


MANELLI, DINO 
... 
SGTF 61 
*M/TIO 77-FB 
SGTF 63 
 


JONES, GABRIEL "GABE" 
... 
SGTF 61 
*M/TIO 77-FB 
SGTF 63 
 


COHEN, "IZZY" 
... 
SGTF 61 
*M/TIO 77-FB 
SGTF 63 
 


PINKERTON, PERCIVAL "PINKY" 
... 
SGTF 61 
*M/TIO 77-FB 
SGTF 63 
 


SAWYER, CAPTAIN SAMUEL 
... 
SGTF 61 
*M/TIO 77-FB 
SGTF 63 
 


THING/BENJAMIN J. GRIMM 
... 
FF 416/2 
TG 2-FB 
CS 7 
*M/TIO 77-FB 
M/:LG 11 
TG 10-FB 
...

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Jul 15, 2007 11:41 pm 
By Enda80

As I have mentioned, Colonel Fury, Nick Fury's Marvel Knights Handbook entry places this story's fb as closer to the present day. As I have also noted, there are plenty of neo-Nazi or State Shinto Militarist groups (as well as organizations of surviving Nazi and State Shinto Militarists; both Hitler and Hirohito survived World War II on Earth-616) and plenty of fictional Asian and European countries that we could use to explain away this and some other problematic flashbacks as part of occaisonal coups d'tats sponsored by them. 

Super-Villain Team-Up#17 showed that the Hate-Monger had plenty of soldiers decked out in WWII era uniforms. With their insane attention to symbols (as noted by the creation of the Red Skull identity, and by Baron Blood in Namor Annual#2 when he noted that it was his Axis superiors that insisted he wear the Baron Blood costume), it would make sense that they would go for the psychological effect of having soldiers wearing vintage uniforms.

			*	*	*

Jul 16, 2007 12:18 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

I hear you, Enda80. Moving it as the Handbooks suggest would solve the Ben Grimm problem here, but it would create other problems. 

As you've pointed out, the villains of the story would have to be explained, and you've listed some possibilities. However, we'd also have to explain why Sawyer is in charge of the Howlers again, when he's not supposed to be. We'd also have to explain why the Howlers are together again, stationed together, when they're not supposed to be. 

Also, as you've pointed out, the Handbooks aren't mistake free, either. They wanted SGTF@ 3 to be in 1967 absolute, when it can't be by what's presented in SGTF@ 3. Actually, I'm curious now. How do the Handooks handle the Captain Savage story that Ben Grimm is in? Or do they ignore it? If we were to move M/TIO 77-FB, we would then have to move CS 7, and come up with even more explanations for that. 

Keeping M/TIO 77-FB close to CS 7 minimizes the problem. The sliding timescale creates the problem we're dealing with, and until a story reveals what the solution is, all we have are theories. The Handbooks have a theory that M/TIO 77-FB wasn't in WWII. But what about CS 7? 

Thanks for the feedback, Enda80!

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Jul 16, 2007 6:36 am 
By Enda80

I guess they state it was one of Grimm's ancestors in CS 7. For MTIO 77, since Grimm was under extreme stress, a similar line of logic would be that he recalled a story one of his ancestors told him (the same hypothetical ancestor from CS 7) and due to the stress, thought of himself in his ancestor's place. 

By the way, didn't the Howlers serve under Sawyer in post-1950 adventures such as annual#1 and #3?

			*	*	*

Jul 16, 2007 7:00 pm 
By Dhall

>>>
As written, this was a fb to Ben Grimm on a mission with the Howlers during WW II. 
<<<

And how is that a chronology problem? It seems more to me that the Handbook is creating problems, where once there were none. 

If you can accept that the Howlers, Captain America, etc. etc. etc. fought in WW II, then what is the problem with Ben Grimm? Do you know how much exposure to cosmic rays slows down your aging? 

I seriously don't see a problem with this being a fb to WW II.

			*	*	*

Jul 16, 2007 9:01 pm 
By Enda80

Grimm was not exposed to cosmic rays till x-15 years ago.

			*	*	*

Jul 16, 2007 9:48 pm 
By Dhall

and perhaps he hasn't aged a day since then, for all we know. 
The point is that the Marvel Universe has a relative timeline. 

In the MU, WW II did NOT take place sixty years ago, it took place a relative (few) number of years before FF 1. 

If we start moving appearances around, based on the number of years that have passed since a date occured in the real world, we would be doing nothing else, and would have to move appearances every few years, and that way lies madness. (I mean didn't the FF meet the Beatles, oh that couldn't have happened because of the date, I guess that must have been the FF's ancestors. Do you see how insane that becomes?) 

The same sliding timescale that means FF 1 occurred about 15 or so relative years ago, means that in the MU, WW II occurred about twenty or so relative years ago. And given that most of Marvel's characters have been bitten by radioactive spiders, afflicted by werewolf curses, genetic mutations, cosmic rays, super soldier serums, are Norse gods, or what not, I find it amusing how people can get so hung up on the timeline.

			*	*	*

Jul 16, 2007 9:59 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Dhall wrote:
>>>
>>>
As written, this was a fb to Ben Grimm on a mission with the Howlers during WW II. 
<<<

And how is that a chronology problem? It seems more to me that the Handbook is creating problems, where once there were none.

If you can accept that the Howlers, Captain America, etc. etc. etc. fought in WW II, then what is the problem with Ben Grimm? Do you know how much exposure to cosmic rays slows down your aging?

I seriously don't see a problem with this being a fb to WW II.
<<<

Forget about the cosmic rays. It doesn't bother me at all that Reed Richards, Ben Grimm, Peggy Carter, Dum Dum Dugan, Gabe Jones, J. Jonah Jameson and many others, super-human or not, were running around in World War II. It's only a problem when Marvel tries to make it a problem. 


watching: little giants

			*	*	*

Jul 17, 2007 11:39 am 
By Somebody
Director

Dhall wrote:
>>>
and perhaps he hasn't aged a day since then, for all we know. 
The point is that the Marvel Universe has a relative timeline.

In the MU, WW II did NOT take place sixty years ago, it took place a relative (few) number of years before FF 1.
<<<

Uh... no. WW2's fixed - it doesn't slide with the general timeline. It DID take place 60+ years ago and counting.

			*	*	*

Jul 17, 2007 6:06 pm 
By Dhall

WW II must be relative, as Ben Grimm is not 90+ years old. 

Again, I'll cite the Beatles. If you follow that sort of logic, It's impossible for the FF to have met them since the band broke up, what 37 years ago? 

Relative Timeline. 
Ben Grimm and Dugan aren't pushing 100, relative timeline. 

Not really a problem, unless you choose to invent a problem.

			*	*	*

Jul 17, 2007 6:11 pm 
By Enda80

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliding_timescale 

For instance, during the 1960s, the Marvel character the Thing said he had fought in World War II alongside Nick Fury; during the 2000s, the Thing himself considered that the idea of him fighting in World War II was ridiculous, as he would be much older. 

Anyone know which story this was? 

For the Beatles, that just counts as a topical reference, as Olskhevsky would put it in his indexes. It is not as if the Beatles made any important plot contributions that the Rolling Stones or some other band could fill. Perhaps a Beatles tribute band?

			*	*	*

Jul 17, 2007 6:54 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Dhall wrote:
>>>
WW II must be relative, as Ben Grimm is not 90+ years old. 

Again, I'll cite the Beatles. If you follow that sort of logic, It's impossible for the FF to have met them since the band broke up, what 37 years ago?

Relative Timeline.
Ben Grimm and Dugan aren't pushing 100, relative timeline.

Not really a problem, unless you choose to invent a problem.
<<<

WW2 isn't relative. Stuff that becomes impossible either gets explained (e.g. Infinity Formula) or soft-retconned. Which is why Iron Man's gone from Vietnam, to an unspecified "South Asian" conflict, to Gulf War at the last telling. No doubt in ten years or so, it'll get told as the Iraq War. 

If you did a timeline of the MU "Now", the X-Men wouldn't have gone to the Coffee-a-Go-Go in checked suits, the F4 wouldn't have met the Beatles, Professor X didn't get drafted for Korea, and Ben Grimm wouldn't have served in WW2.

			*	*	*

Jul 17, 2007 7:19 pm 
By Dhall

>>>
If you did a timeline of the MU "Now", the X-Men wouldn't have gone to the Coffee-a-Go-Go in checked suits, the F4 wouldn't have met the Beatles, Professor X didn't get drafted for Korea, and Ben Grimm wouldn't have served in WW2.
<<<

So you're saying that any comic published prior to the last ten years is non-canon? 

I have comics that show all of those things did happen in the MU. Chronologically speaking, it's not an issue.

			*	*	*

Jul 17, 2007 8:12 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Somebody wrote:
>>>
If you did a timeline of the MU "Now", ... Ben Grimm wouldn't have served in WW2.
<<<

But...he did. 

There's one camp of fans who contend that Reed and Ben (to cite two out of potentially dozens of examples) never fought in World War II. "That was Ben's ancestor, and he just got confused, and thought it was himself." "That was some other Reed Richards, not the Reed we know." 

Of course, these people are perfectly within their rights to believe anything. There's another camp of fans who contend this is belief is counter not only to creator intent, but to what's actually portrayed in the books, and choose to believe that Reed and Ben fought in the big one. Needless to say, these people also are within their rights. 

Count me among the latter. 


watching: firefly

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Jul 17, 2007 11:48 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Great discussion. 

According to Captain Savage 7 & Marvel Two-In-One 77, Ben Grimm did serve in WWII. It's right there in those comics. Chronologically speaking, that's not a problem. 

The problem comes in when Marvel says that the Marvel Universe didn't start in 1961, but rather 15+ years ago, and the last 40+ years worth of stories happened within a sliding timescale that compresses all of those stories into 15+ years, starting about 15 years ago, and not 1961. Now, suddenly, if Ben Grimm were to have served in WWII, he'd have to be ~90 years old because it's 2007, and not 1976. 

However, Ben fought in WWII in CS 7 & M/TIO 77, so they're in his chronology... because another comic has not addressed that Sliding Timescale problem. Until a story is published saying that that's really an ancestor of Ben in those stories, or that he travelled back in time and served in WWII at some other point in his chronology, well, he fought in WWII as a young man before he went into space and got super powers.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Jul 18, 2007 1:55 am 
By John Simons

You guys are missing the most simple explantation of all: Ben and Reed did serve in WWII, they really did get their superpowers in 1961... and all Marvel Comics currently being published actually take place in 1975!  

Any seeming contemporary elements can be explained away by advanced technology (obviously if Tony Stark and Reed Richards were around, people would have had internet and cell phones in the 70's) or topical references. 

So you see that Beatles appearence is straight up. Now, if Ben and Johnny ever cross paths with Green Day, we may have to write that off to artistic license...

"Jessica, whatever you do...don't contradict the continuity! They'll eat you alive! They'll. Eat. You. Alive!"

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Jul 18, 2007 5:56 am 
By Enda80

Aren't some of the posters on this thread forgetting this: 

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/earth1961.htm 

This may be the story where the Earth-616 Thing scoffed at the idea of his serving in World War II.

			*	*	*

Jul 18, 2007 6:03 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Enda80 wrote:
>>>
during the 2000s, the Thing himself considered that the idea of him fighting in World War II was ridiculous, as he would be much older. 

Anyone know which story this was? 
<<<

Enda80 wrote:
>>>
Aren't some of the posters on this thread forgetting this:
It looks like you forgot that, as well. 
<<<

He's talking about Fantastic Four Annual '98, in case anyone didn't feel like clicking on the link. I'll have to dig this out, to see what the hell he's referring to.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Jul 18, 2007 6:10 am 
By Enda80

That entire annual was predicated on illustrating the sliding timescale.

			*	*	*

Jul 18, 2007 6:56 am 
By Starman

John Simons wrote:
>>>
You guys are missing the most simple explantation of all: Ben and Reed did serve in WWII, they really did get their superpowers in 1961... and all Marvel Comics currently being published actually take place in 1975! 
<<<

I love that theory, though I'd like to make one small revision. Maybe it's still the 60s in the MU?

- Stefan

"Pub, ah yes. A meeting place where people attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks."
- Kryten, Red Dwarf

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Jul 18, 2007 6:57 am 
By ADMINISTRATOR

>>>
That entire annual was predicated on illustrating the sliding timescale.
<<<

I think everyone here understands the concept of the sliding timescale. That still doesn't change the fact that Reed & Ben served in World War II. 


watching: today

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Jul 18, 2007 12:29 pm 
By jephyork
Director

Personally, I tend to think of the real solution as somewhere in-between the "the MU is only 10-15 years old/the FF got their powers in 1992-1997" and the "the FF got their powers in 1961/only 10-15 years have passed since then, making it 1971-1976" theories. 

I like to think that the real-world events that have also been reflected in the MU (like WWII, Vietnam, 9/11, etc.) simply happened quicker in their world. So although 9/11 was almost six years ago in our world, maybe in the Marvel Universe it was only ... I dunno, three. And it's only been 40 years since WWII, not 65. And yes, they'll sometimes state on-panel that it's been 65 years since WWII, and six years since 9/11 ... but that's just for our, the readers', benefit. Surely it couldn't REALLY have been that long since 9/11, since nobody appears to have aged a day since then. 

It's a fictional universe. It falls completely apart if you hold it up to too much scrutiny. I prefer to just kind of squint, take the temporal-passage references for what they were (accurate at the time of publication), and let the exact details slide. Ben fought with the Howlers in WWII? Sure, why not? 

-Jeph!

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Jul 19, 2007 1:47 am 
By wolframbane

I have been doing some major research into my timelines for the Second Korean War (Yr -13 to Yr -10) and Second Vietnam War (Yr 2 to Yr 6). I reckon its only a matter of time til I consider the 'Second World War II' - haha. 

I guess we are fortunate that 'most' references to WWII are covered, with Cap's suspended animation, Fury's Infinity Formula, etc. Do we have a definite list of WWII era events that 'slide forward'? 

As it stands, I personally think it may have been Nathaniel Richards and Daniel Grimm Sr who were active in WWII. Regarding the comparative ages of the FF, I have calculated: 

Ben: Year -33 (USAF Major or 31+ during mission w/ Carol Danvers and Logan 3 years before the FF started) 
Reed: Year -28 (age 20 when he met Sue age 12) 
Sue: Year -20 (age 20 going on 21 during FF 1) 
Johnny: Year -14 (began Metro College in Year 4) 
Doom: Year -32 (attended ESU with Reed, who was 14+)

			*	*	*

Jul 19, 2007 6:10 pm 
By Dhall

I think everyone here understands the concept of the sliding timescale. 

I think everyone here has their own understanding of the concept, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Except as it involves sliding events around. Then my head starts to hurt. 

			*	*	*

Jul 21, 2007 11:02 pm 
By Ron Flick

I like to think that someday the sliding timescale will be explained as a product of some benevolent god-like superbeing who has prolonged the lives and memories of superheroes so that earth can benefit from their long lives of service to humanity. The superheroes and those who encounter them have lived forty to sixty years but have perceived that only fifteen to twenty have passed. It will be explained that the world has been under a type of mass hypnotic illusion, for the benefit of mankind. One day, someone like Reed Richards will realize that he and everyone he knows have been part of a bizarre Truman Show for superheroes. He'll remember that he did indeed live through the Beatles and VietNam and Nixon and Watergate and Disco and the Gulf War and 9-11. And then the world can go on as normal and the superheroes can truly experience real time events and refer to them as the years go by and still they won't age as fast as everyone else. It will just be another benefit of being a superhero or a friend of a superhero! A modern day fountain of youth!!! 

That's how I like to think about it.

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 2:18 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

I finally had a chance to dig out FF @ '98 & read it.(it's been, what, nine years since I've read it last? I can't go off my memory here, guys!) 

In it, Ben travels to a parallel world where the FF were formed in '1961.' Shocked at hearing this, Ben goes to walk it off as he ponders what that might mean, mentioning to himself: 

"--but if we was belted with Cosmic Rays back in '61, that's mean... lesse-- minus my age... make me twenty in... Sheesh! Reed an' me could a' fought in World War Two!" 

Later, he thinks to himself: 

"...but Suzie had Franklin in '68? Galactus first came fer dinner in '66? An' Shellhead an' Hornhead an' Greenskin all showed up in the Early '60's-- followin' the fashion-settin' F.F.?! Sheesh! None a' us four was even born back then!" 

And, as Enda80 pointed out earlier, there are a lot of conversations with aged characters from this alternate world demonstrating the sliding time-scale. Dr. Strange mentons: 

"Ah! Yes-- you are from a different reality, Mr. Grimm... very similar to our own, but where most of the heroes we know have been in existence ten years or less!" 

So... what do we do with this? We have in-book evidence that Ben didn't fight in World War II. FF @ '98 says that Reed & Ben weren't born until at least 20+ years after it ended. 

Thoughts?

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 5:44 pm 
By jephyork
Director

Well, the entire point of the book was a big old metatext about comic time vs. real time. I say disregard it. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 5:57 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Big ol'metatext was the authorial intent, sure, but it's what's there on the page that matters, yes? That discussion's been had over other matters before. 

It's not as if that page in Giant-Size Hulk where PAD takes time out from the story for a sliding timeline Carter vs Clinton joke gets disregarded. Or even Morrison's Planet X "look, the X-Men are an outdated concept!" thing. 

And nor is it a throwaway, in the vein that some stuff gets disregarded. It exists to premeditatively say, in continuity, "the sliding timeline's for real. Deal with it."

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 6:22 pm 
By jephyork
Director

>>>
It's not as if that page in Giant-Size Hulk where PAD takes time out from the story for a sliding timeline Carter vs Clinton joke gets disregarded. Or even Morrison's Planet X "look, the X-Men are an outdated concept!" thing.
<<<

I'm not sure how we're supposed to let these two examples of metatext-on-the-printed-page guide our chronological placements, though. It's not like "look, the X-Men are an outdated concept" means we have to somehow alter our chronologies. 

The FF 1998 Annual, on the other hand, would have us delete Ben's appearance in WWII, without any explanation other than "it retroactively couldn't possibly have happened." 

If a comic is published that offers an actual alternative explanation -- time travel, false memory implants, etc. -- then sure, let's revise the listings. But as it stands now, FF @98 is, to me, the printed equivalent of Enda80 saying "Reed couldn't have met Einstein; therefore it must have been a statue." 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 6:26 pm 
By Enda80

In that panel in FF I#271 or so, they weren't actually shown talking to Einstein. Since in the comics, it is hard to tell a wax statue from a real person (few artists can convey the difference; in the same vein, the fact that Chucky of Child's Play is a doll as opposed to a normal dwarf is not often conveyed, as Brian Pulido has pointed out).

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 6:45 pm 
By Somebody
Director

jephyork wrote:
>>>
The FF 1998 Annual, on the other hand, would have us delete Ben's appearance in WWII, without any explanation other than "it retroactively couldn't possibly have happened."

If a comic is published that offers an actual alternative explanation -- time travel, false memory implants, etc. -- then sure, let's revise the listings. But as it stands now, FF @98 is, to me, the printed equivalent of Enda80 saying "Reed couldn't have met Einstein; therefore it must have been a statue."
<<<

>>>
FAQ 18.2) Follow-Up Q. How do you determine that a book isn't canon?

The rule of thumb follows a two-step process. In general, a book is canon unless (a) Marvel says it isn't; or (b) it can't be.
<<<

Isn't this effectively Marvel saying "Ben in WW2 isn't canon"?

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 8:39 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

You're attempting to insert "Ben in WW2" into the FAQ, in place of the term "a book", but "Ben in WW2" is not equivalent to "a book." 

...Unless you're contending that Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos isn't canon, since Reed's WW2 appearance is courtesy of SGTF. 

We "deal" with the sliding timescale by ignoring it, for the purpose of determining the order of character appearances. 


watching: hannity/combs

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Aug 02, 2007 10:36 pm 
By jephyork
Director

>>>
In that panel in FF I#271 or so, they weren't actually shown talking to Einstein. Since in the comics, it is hard to tell a wax statue from a real person (few artists can convey the difference; in the same vein, the fact that Chucky of Child's Play is a doll as opposed to a normal dwarf is not often conveyed, as Brian Pulido has pointed out).
<<<

Maybe YOU'RE a statue. Had you ever thought of that? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 2

Subject: Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix

Aug 02, 2007 11:43 pm 
By Jhaeman

Is the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix limited series canon? I don't see it in the key, but I don't see it in the list of non-canon titles either.

			*	*	*

Aug 03, 2007 1:20 am 
By TheDeuce

it's on the key for the mcp. both that and the second series. 

C&P (ADVERNTURES OF) CYCLOPS & PHOENIX 1994 
C&P2 (FURTHER ADVERNTURES OF) CYCLOPS & PHOENIX 1996

			*	*	*

Aug 03, 2007 2:40 am 
By Jhaeman

Thanks for the prompt response--I fell prey to the missing "Adventures". 

I'm not an expert on X-history (especially with time travel stories), so although there's probably a good reason for the omission, I thought I would flag that three characters each appear in C&P 2-4 and aren't given MCP credit: a character named Turrin, a child Stryfe, and Apocalypse.

			*	*	*

Thread 3

Subject: The canonicity of Marvel UK Comics

Aug 04, 2007 2:15 am 
By wolframbane

For the sake of the MCP, are the Marvel UK comics considered canon within Earth-616 continuity? Are all the stories involving Captain Britain prior to his joing Excalibur canon? And does he have any post-Excalibur appearances in Marvel UK itself, and if so, are these considered canon in Earth-616 continuity?

			*	*	*

Aug 04, 2007 4:29 am 
By JD

wolframbane wrote:
>>>
Are all the stories involving Captain Britain prior to his joing Excalibur canon? 
<<<

Just looking at his MCP chronology, yes.

			*	*	*

Thread 4

Subject: Marvel Monsters: Monsters on the Prowl

Aug 04, 2007 9:16 pm 
By Alpha Trion

I'm having trouble placing this one. It should be before A 27, because Hank's going by Giant-Man, and Reed's playing around in the Negative Zone, so it should be after FF 51, and the MCP listings reflect both these assumptions. But Marvels 3 has the Avengers vs Attuma fight at least a day or two before the arrival of Galactus. Would it make sense for Hank to put on the Giant-Man costume for whatever reason early in his Goliath era?

			*	*	*

Thread 5

Subject: Peter David removing Bruce Jones stories

24 Jul 2007 11:47 pm 
By Carl Creel

What was the final verdict on PD's decision to make BJ's run on Hulk a dream? Would it work?

			*	*	*

25 Jul 2007 06:42 am 
By Somebody
Director

He explicitly did not say WHICH stories (with one exception - the Nadia/Abomination story ["Stupid Nightmare"] in Hulk:Destruction - and I'm not sure that mini is itself considered canon...) were in and which were out. It was a "for future reference" retcon-o-meter. 

Incidentally, shouldn't: 

CM6 18-FB 
H3 55 
H3 56 
H3 57 
H3 58 
H3 59 

be allocated to an "ABSORBING MAN II/CARL "CRUSHER" CREEL", with CM6 18-FB also being given to ABSORBING MAN I, with a "see also" note at that point for AM2 reflecting the duplication and AB1's entry continuing to the She-Hulk v1 flashbacks, MKSM, etc?

			*	*	*

25 Jul 2007 09:29 am 
By Kevin W.
Director

I think we're still in the "wait and see" department as to how much of Bruce Jones' run is officially retconned... 

For our purposes, I think we had pretty much decided to ignore the majority of the flashback sequences "Hulk: Destruction". As our Administrator once put it, "The contention that Abomination gained his powers after the first appearance of Doc Samson is a path to chaos." 

Personal theory: I'm hearing rumors that Bruce's wife Betty Ross will appear in World War Hulk before it's over. 

The thing is, the last place we saw her was either 

A. at the end of Bruce Jones' run, where she told the Hulk he was a monster. She had plastic surgery and had become a secret spy, and didn't look like the "Betty" we know... 

or 

B. At the end of Peter David's "Nightmare" story arc where she washed up on the shore of Nightmare's island. 

Her "status quo" upon her eventual reappearance will reveal, (I hope) how much of Jones's run is canon. 

Random thought: I want Bruce Jones's run to count, because it would explain Doc Samson's switch from "Hulk supporter" to being "Hulk enemy". At the end of Jones' run, Samson was left beaten to a bloody pulp at the hands of the Hulk. Around that time, we also saw Doc Samson appear in Geoff John's Avengers, (in the "Search for She-Hulk" arc). Samson appeared with the military on the hunt for the Hulk. The Avengers issues were published before the end of Jones' run, but due to the slow pace of the Jones' storyline, I was led to believe that Samson's apearance in Avengers occurs after the end of Jones' run, (after Samson's recovered from being beaten to a pulp). 

Also, we've yet to get an explaination upon how the Leader can be alive and well in the pages of She-Hulk...Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

25 Jul 2007 10:01 am 
By Somebody
Director

Kevin W. wrote:
>>>
Random thought: I want Bruce Jones's run to count, because it would explain Doc Samson's switch from "Hulk supporter" to being "Hulk enemy". At the end of Jones' run, Samson was left beaten to a bloody pulp at the hands of the Hulk. Around that time, we also saw Doc Samson appear in Geoff John's Avengers, (in the "Search for She-Hulk" arc). Samson appeared with the military on the hunt for the Hulk. The Avengers issues were published before the end of Jones' run, but due to the slow pace of the Jones' storyline, I was led to believe that Samson's apearance in Avengers occurs after the end of Jones' run, (after Samson's recovered from being beaten to a pulp).
<<<

And not expurgating Samson's backstory of the BJ... stuff... is worth that? Even before we consider stuff like the mess he made of Iron Man in that arc (I'm not counting Absorbing Man, since that was an in-continuity continuity error per CM v4 #16; in the same way Quasar's first costumes were in-continuity retconned in Quasar #18).


Kevin W. wrote:
>>>
Also, we've yet to get an explaination upon how the Leader can be alive and well in the pages of She-Hulk...
<<<

I fully and terrifingly expect the answer to be "Hypertime" (or words to that effect...) per the ALL-CONTINUITY ERRORS EVAH EVAH EVAH FIXED thing in She-Hulk 2 #21...

			*	*	*

25 Jul 2007 12:15 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

Somebody wrote:
>>>
And not expurgating Samson's backstory of the BJ... stuff... is worth that? Even before we consider stuff like the mess he made of Iron Man in that arc (I'm not counting Absorbing Man, since that was an in-continuity continuity error per CM v4 #16; in the same way Quasar's first costumes were in-continuity retconned in Quasar #18).
<<<

In my opinion, more harm was done by Peter David's attempt to "fix" Bruce Jones' run than any damage done by Bruce Jones himself. At the end of David's "Nightmare" story arc, we were left with vague suggestions by Nightmare that the last few years of the Hulk's title have been nothing but a dream. That's a dangerous precedent, because it wasn't clearly stated when the dream began! How far back did this dream go? Back to the point when David last left the Hulk title in the late 90's? Do we really want to ignore that much material? 

And on the topic of Doc Samson, I'm still trying to figure out why he's on the side of the Illuminati in the current "World War Hulk"...having the end of the Bruce Jones run "count" goes a little ways towards explaining that. 

I'm just crossing my fingers that Greg Pak can untie the knots made by both Jones and David...(and I hope he doesn't ignore both runs altogether).

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

25 Jul 2007 09:06 pm 
By Mikhail

Doc Samson's recent mini-series -- did it refer to Jones' run at all? Even an "I used to a wear an eyepatch" reference?

			*	*	*

26 Jul 2007 11:58 pm 
By Carl Creel

I'm sure Dan Slott will explain the Leader's presence eventually. He comes off as a responsible writer. The question is how would he explain a three-toed Abomination???? 

			*	*	*

07 Aug 2007 09:46 am 
By Kevin W.
Director

From an interview with the writer and editor over at Newsarama. 
>>>
Greg Pak: Uh. I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear the "h" word. But yeah, this is a fight that's been a long, long time coming. Ross and the Hulk actually came to a kind of understanding towards the end of Peter David's first run. But with Betty dead and the Hulk back in me-against-the-world mode, Ross must be incredibly ready to take this fight as far as it possibly can go.

NRAMA: Whoa  what? Thunderbolt says his daughter is dead? Has he not been reading Hulk before this Greg Pak guy was writing it? Joking aside, what is Bettys status?

GP: Peter David's last run left up for grabs just how much of Betty's resurrection was real or a nightmare. What's certain is that as far as Ross knows, Betty is dead and gone.
<<<

It sounds like to me that Greg Pak is holding off on tackling the mess of sorting out the last few years of Hulk continuity, but hey, at least we know that General Ross believes Betty to be dead. But Peter David also had Betty wash up on Nightmare's island, so.... 

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

Thread 6

Subject: Ship/Professor/Prosh, Apocalypse

07 Aug 2007 02:07 pm 
By Somebody
Director

X-Factor's Ship is missing umpteen issues, for some reason: 

SHIP [CELESTIAL CREATION] 
S-H2 29 
S-H2 30 
**XF 11-BTS (BTS for teleporting Apocalypse) 
**XF 12-BTS (BTS for teleporting Apocalypse) 
**{XF 15} 
**XF 17 
**XF 18 
**XF 19 
**XF 21 
**XF 22 
**XF 23 
**XF 24 
**XF 25 
**XF 26 
**XF 27 
**XF 28 (revealed to be sentient) 
**XF 29 
**XF 30 
**XF 31 
**XF 32 
**XF 33 
XF 34 
?? XF 35 (mini-ship formed by Ship appears, Ship-proper doesn't. BTS?) 
?? XF 36 (mini-ship formed by Ship appears, Ship-proper doesn't. BTS?) 
UX 243 
NM 74 (NB: Possibly further NM appearances between here & XF 43, if anyone has the issues...) 
**XF 40 
**XF 41 
?? XF 42 (mini-ship formed by Ship appears, Ship-proper doesn't. BTS?) 
**XF 47-FB 
**XF 43 
**XF 44 
**XF 46 
**XF 48 
**XF 49 
**XF 50 
**XF 51 
**XF 52 
*XF 53 (previously listed as BTS, but appears on-panel on 9:2) 
XF 54 
[...] 
XF 68 
**See Professor 

And, in addition to the need for notes running Ship-->Professor-->Prosh, the Askani'Son miniseries is in the wrong place. And is the PROFESSOR listing otherwise complete? 

PROFESSOR 
**From Ship 
*ASKANISON 1 (moved from PROSH) 
*ASKANISON 2 (moved from PROSH) 
*ASKANISON 3 (moved from PROSH) 
*ASKANISON 4 (moved from PROSH) 
XFOR 20 
[...] 
XFOR 29 
**See Prosh 

PROSH 
**From Professor 
rm ASKANISON 1 (out of sequence, moved to PROFESSOR) 
rm ASKANISON 2 (out of sequence, moved to PROFESSOR) 
rm ASKANISON 3 (out of sequence, moved to PROFESSOR) 
rm ASKANISON 4 (out of sequence, moved to PROFESSOR) 
XFOR 39 
XMF 1 
XMF 2 
XMF 3 
XMF 4 
XMF 5 
XMF 6 

Oh, and why is Apocalypse listed for Thor #373-374 (the Mutant Massacre crossover issues)? I can't see hide nor lip of him there...

			*	*	*

Thread 7

Subject: Index Question

23 Jul 2007 10:43 pm 
By Dhall

Both volumes of the Marvel Index to the Avengers have 
Power Man 17 listed between IM 56, and CM 27 in Iron Man's listing, but the MCP does not. 

Per Index: 
A 119 
IM 55-fb 
IM 55 
IM 56 
PM 17 
Cm 27 
Cm 28 
Cm 29-BTs 
Cm 30 
M/Fea 12 
A 119 

Per MCP: 
IM 66 
PM 17 
IM 67 


Also, Both volumes have Captain America 168 listed right before cm 27, but the MCP does not. 

Per Index: 
A 119 
Ca 168 
CM 27 
CM 28 
Cm 29-bts 
A 119 

Per MCP: 
A 119 
Def 13-fb 
Ca 168-171 
A 121 



Is there some reason for having moved these, or is this just an error in the MCP?

			*	*	*

24 Jul 2007 06:56 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Off-hand, I can't see a reason why the Index wouldn't be correct in either case. My own notes show these comics in the order the Index has them.Paul B.

			*	*	*

24 Jul 2007 07:56 am 
By Somebody
Director

Archive 43

BRAHMA...BUCKY...LUKE CAGE

>>>
Posted by Arthur Stein on February 01, 2004 at 09:12:25:

[...]

CAGE, LUKE/CARL LUCAS

LCHFH 16
**IM 65 Placed before PM 17 because in PM 17 we see Tony Stark (16p1) summoned back from Detroitafter his battle withDr Spectrum. i,e, after IM 66 (also theres an editors note, for what their worth, stating that Iron Man would be guesting in a future issue of Powerman).
PM 17

This one was left over because it causes a small problem as Iron mans appearance in PM 17 is listed is his own chronology much earlierfollowing IM 56. 

I propose...

IRON MAN/TONY STARK
A 119
IM 55
IM 56
(PM 17 **** removed)
CM 27
CM 28
CM 29-BTS
CM 30
M/FEA 12
A 119
DEF 13-FB
IM 57
IM 58
IM 59
IM 60
IM 61
IM 62
IM 63
IM 64
IM 65
IM 66
**PM 17 **** relocated
IM 67

No other listed characters in PM 17 to worry about.
However in PM 17 we see Luke reading a Daily Bugle with the headline Captain America Defeats Phoenix, a reference to CA 168. CA 168 is in Caps chronology as happening mid A 119 (?). (Iron mans PM 17 is mid A 119 also). Shifting PM 17 could be considered as moving it too far from A 119 in IMs chronology for the newspaper to be considered current. 
Either postulate that Luke was reading an old paper (not entirely beyond belief, but I feel his reaction to the news gives a flavour of more currency to it)
Or move CA 168 further along the line to just prior to CA 169. This moves it past A 119 and thus shortens the gap between Caps Phoenix encounter and Lukes reading the newspaper story. I see nothing relating to Cap that forces it to be earlier and the chronologies of other characters in CA 168 (Falcon and Zeno II) would be unaffected.
Thus

<<<

			*	*	*

24 Jul 2007 09:07 pm 
By Dhall

The newspaper in question also contains an article "Spider-Man and Vulture - Birds of a Feather?" which is presumably a reference to ASM 127-128, which seems to occur not too long after A 118. 

No offense to Somebody, but I have been told many times, that we only change placements shown in the index, if one can prove that it couldn't have happened the way that the index shows. I'm not sure that a caption box referencing IM 66 is enough evidence for that. 

Though let me also point out that the index decided that the caption box in A 119, referencing events in JA 6-8, could not possibly be accurate. 

Also, I'm not completely sure why the index places IM 17 where it does, and decides that Tony Stark is too distracted, and forgets to tell the Avengers about Thanos. I've never liked that sort of thing much. 

Hmmn, I'm sure I'll have more to say once I've read ahead a bit.

			*	*	*

08 Aug 2007 07:37 pm 
By Dhall

Yes this move makes sense for the reasons that Somebody mentioned above. However, PM 17 has to come AFTER IM 67, not 66. 

In PM 17, the footnote mentions Tony's return from Detroit, but he is still there with Thor taking care of Eddie March's medical problems. 

Therefore Tony must return after IM 67.

			*	*	*

Thread 8

Subject: New Avengers: Illuminati #4

Aug 02, 2007 3:19 am
By Col_Fury
Director

Tony is wearing armor that looks like the Busiek armor, I think, which would place this after Heroes Return. If that's the case, the meeting shown here would be a 'we're all back from the Franklinverse and checking in on what we missed' type meeting, and 'apparently we missed Noh-Varr declaring war on Earth.' 

Right? 

How does this line up with Professor X? Wasn't he still in prison or something for the whole Onslaught thing? 

And what about Dr. Strange? When did Clea leave for the Dark Dimension? Could that have happened while the FF & Avengers were in the Franklinverse? And now that they're back he's telling them about it? 

Or am I way off on Tony's armor? I suppose it would help if I knew more about Dr. Strange...

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 3:46 am 
By JLH

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
And what about Dr. Strange? When did Clea leave for the Dark Dimension? Could that have happened while the FF & Avengers were in the Franklinverse? And now that they're back he's telling them about it?
<<<

Clea was in the Dark Dimension pretty much from like around Dr Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #48 onward. She came to Earth, through a lot of hard sacrifice for only like a day, in DRSTR3 67. And that was it for her until around THE ORDER (and I'm not even sure Kurt explained her return). As for Strange, he did kind of keep busy in that era, he didn't really interact with any mainstream Marvel characters until really after Heroes Return, or at least during Heroes Reborn.

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 9:09 am 
By Somebody
Director

Which costume is Strange in - the white & gold shirt, or his "classic" blue tunic (or the gaian aura mess, I suppose - but I expect that's not the case)? 

A depowered Xavier was taken into custody in X-Men #57 (dated October 1996, very shortly after Onslaught), and was still jailed in the Onslaught Epilogue. He appeared, still depowered, as Bastion's personal captive in O:ZT (mid-1997, c X65-67). Jean Grey then sees the Heroes' Return on TV in X 71 (dated Jan 1998). The "Hunt for Xavier" is then in issues dated late-1998/early-1999, and I *think*, without checking, that X-Men #84 is the issue he's repowered and returns to the team. Which came out the same week as Fantastic Four v3 #14, which starts a brief Iron Man crossover which turns Sue into an insect for a few months, with #15 sending the FF off to the Negative Zone for the duration. They don't get back till #20. While Iron Man is coming off an "my armour is killing me" plot, after he was beaten half-to-death in IM3 #9-10. He's in a bulky temporary armour for the crossover for that reason, and has a slightly redesigned armour (most obviously, the unibeam no longer connects to the shoulders) thereafter. 

JLH wrote:
>>>
And that was it for her until around THE ORDER (and I'm not even sure Kurt explained her return).
<<<

The "Defenders Against the Earth" Order just had the "minor" Defenders teleport into the Dark Dimension and pick her up, promising that Strange would help her kick Dormammu off the throne if she helped them fix him first (and, judging from ASM 498/whatever v2 issue that was, he actually did it. Although Defenders v3 had him back again.)

			*	*	*

Aug 02, 2007 9:21 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

This story happens quite a bit after the heroes return from Franklinverse. Check out the second-to-last page...Reed asks Sue if she would "like to take the kids on a picnic." Kids...plural. This story must occur after the birth of Valeria if FF3 54.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 03, 2007 12:22 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Strange is in his 'classic' blue tunic. 

Stark's unibeam is no longer connected to the shoulders. 

I guess everyone besides Strange points to around publication date for the Marvel Boy mini... but why would Strange bring up Clea leaving so long after it happened? Maybe he was just depressed?

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 03, 2007 9:06 am 
By Somebody
Director

Okay, I've now found the preview for this issue. That's the Pacheco-and-on F4 uniform on Reed (which supports Paul B's post-FF3 54 placement), and that is NOT the Busiek/Chen armour (either version) on Iron Man. It's an iteration of the Grell/Ryan-Lucas-Granov Iron Man armour (the shoulders are a dead giveaway). That armour got a lot of little redesigns almost constantly over the piece until it was finally replaced by the Extremis armour, and it looks like a later version of the model, but I'd need to check (and see a full-body-with-helmet-on pic from the issue) to narrow it down. 

As for Strange, can we place it between ORDER 6 and ASM 498 (I keep forgetting the "conversion factor", that's actually the second-last ASM2 issue) for him? If we do that, he's been in the Dark Dimension with Clea for a while scattering Dormammu to the four winds, and that could put him in a mood about her if she didn't come back with him again.

			*	*	*

Aug 03, 2007 12:35 pm 
By jephyork
Director

I think it's ASM2 #57. From memory, the first series ended with #441, so 441 + 57 = 498. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Aug 03, 2007 2:40 pm 
By Mikhail

Strange's life hasn't really been chronciled regularly since the end of Doc Volume 3 in the mid-90's, besides the Defenders/Order series. I'd think there's plenty of gap-time for Clea to have come back from the Dark Dimension, hung around for awhile, and then left him again.

			*	*	*

Aug 03, 2007 3:48 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Looking up some listings for this, and just curious: 

1) What's Strange doing in Thor #41 in the middle of Order? 
2) ASM2 58's an alternate timeline, isn't it? (as a result of the events of ASM 500) Shouldn't the appearances of everyone except Strange & Spider-Man be deleted for it, if that's the case? 

Back to the point, since I've actually checked the listings now: 

Can this issue (NA:I 4) go between ORDER 6 and ASM2 41? Apart from IM's armour being not-quite-right for the time (but that armour was in flux most of the time anyway, so...), I'm not sure if there's any reason why it can't. And, if not, what's the first point thereafter that it can go? 

Oh, and Paul B - I don't see a calendar BTS note for "Strange goes to the Dark Dimension with Clea (and probably at least the "minor 3" Defenders), as promised by Hellcat in ORDER 3; and defeats Dormammu, 'sen[ding] his essence into a dozen different dimensions, diffusing his energy so that it would be impossible for him to reconstitute himself' per ASM2 57", which should go between ORDER 6 (Calendar May 29, Y21) and ASM2 41 (10:6-22; Calendar July 16, Y21).

			*	*	*

Aug 03, 2007 7:48 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Good point, Somebody. I'll place that BTS on May 31, Yr 21. We can posit that Clea returned to this dimension with Strange after that and stayed with him a good six weeks. Then Clea leaves him and we have NA:I2 4 on about July 15, Yr 21. 

That puts NA:I2 4 during Iron Man's Grell armor period, places Xavier here between END and XX 19 (Xavier is sitting the whole time in NA:I2 4, and we don't see clearly that he's in a wheelchair), and Reed between FF3 56 and 57 (comfortably after Valeria's birth in FF3 54 on March 5). Namor seems to be okay here, and Noh-Varr is here several months after MB 6 (December, Yr 20). 

And, you're right -- Strange can't appear in T2 41 (at least not with a non-blue face!) during ORDER. Good catch! If I moved the Thor entries (from T@ '01 through T2 42 ahead two days), so that Strange hears of Odin's death in T2 41 after ORDER 6, would that solve the problem and not create new ones?

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 04, 2007 7:06 am 
By Somebody
Director

Come to think of it, there may need to be another BTS some time between ASM 500 and Defenders v3 #1 for Dormammu to be pulled back together (Umar strongly implies she did it on DEF3 #2 pg6) in a way that isn't subsequently retroactively undone, so he can get to teaming up with Umar, taking back the Dark Dimension, eating the Pan-Dimensional Oversight Council, banning dreaming and plotting to remake reality & kill Strange. 

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Good point, Somebody. I'll place that BTS on May 31, Yr 21. We can posit that Clea returned to this dimension with Strange after that and stayed with him a good six weeks. Then Clea leaves him and we have NA:I2 4 on about July 15, Yr 21.
<<<

Pretty much works (I was thinking he'd stay there for a bit, but it's academic, and works better with "she left him" to have it that way round I suppose).


Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
That puts NA:I2 4 during Iron Man's Grell armor period, places Xavier here between END and XX 19 (Xavier is sitting the whole time in NA:I2 4, and we don't see clearly that he's in a wheelchair)
<<<

What's END (it's not in the Key)? Oh, and X-Treme X 19 isn't in Xavier's listing, is he on-panel there?


Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
And, you're right -- Strange can't appear in T2 41 (at least not with a non-blue face!) during ORDER. Good catch! If I moved the Thor entries (from T@ '01 through T2 42 ahead two days), so that Strange hears of Odin's death in T2 41 after ORDER 6, would that solve the problem and not create new ones?
<<<

Don't know of any it would cause.

			*	*	*

Aug 04, 2007 9:55 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

>>>
What's END (it's not in the Key)? 
<<<

That would be MARVEL UNIVERSE: THE END #1-6, listed on July 11, Year 21.


>>>
Oh, and X-Treme X 19 isn't in Xavier's listing, is he on-panel there?
<<<

No, but in that issue the Beast states that he's walking again.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 05, 2007 1:18 pm 
By jephyork
Director

>>>
Xavier is sitting the whole time in NA:I2 4, and we don't see clearly that he's in a wheelchair
<<<

Sure we do -- Black Bolt is pushing his chair into the room on page 2. 

That doesn't affect the placement we've selected -- I'm just pointing it out. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Aug 06, 2007 7:10 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Time to get this prescription changed!  

So now I have Strange's chronology as: 
ORDER 6 [May 29] 
T2 41 [May 31] 
NA:I2 4 [July 15] 
ASM2 41 [July 16] 

Any other considerations? Does this placement of NA:I2 4 seem to work for everyone involved?

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 09, 2007 3:08 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

So this is before "Civil War: Young Avengers/Runaways" then? I guess Marvel Boy decided against becoming a good guy, (going by the end of that recent mini-series).

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

Aug 10, 2007 7:24 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
So this is before "Civil War: Young Avengers/Runaways" then? 
<<<

It sure appears that way, at least for now.Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 9

Subject: Tony Stark in flashbacks in ORDER2 1

Aug 10, 2007 1:25 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

If an Iron Man fan can save me a bunch of digging on this, I'd appreciate it. Tony Stark appears in a couple of flashbacks that we'll need to place in his chronology. 

1:5 -- Tony Stark and actor Henry Hellrung (the MU's TV Iron Man) booze it up on a double date in a restaurant. 

12:8-13:3 -- On the fifth anniversary of his sobriety, Hellrung introduces his AA sponsee, a clean-shaven Tony Stark, at Stark's first AA meeting. It's Stark's "fifth day sober." 

2:10 -- Clean-shaven Tony Stark stands before an AA group meeting, presumably on a separate occasion following his first meeting, given he has a long necktie here. 

So where might these FBs go? I did a quick check to comics from 1984 and noticed that after Stark's recovery from his famous bout with alcoholism from that time, it took a little while for him to shave the beard he had while he was drunk. He shaved in IM 196. I'm not sure if he was shown at an AA meeting (w/beard) prior to that issue or exactly when he quit drinking prior to IM 196.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 10

Subject: All Winners

Aug 12, 2007 8:45 am 
By Dhall

All Winners 19 and 21 are in some listings listed as 
All Winners and in some listings as All Winners Comics 
neither of which are listed in the key. 

All Winners Comics 19 
Miss America 
Whizzer 

All Winners 19 
Human Torch 
Spirit of '76 
Sub-Mariner 

All Winners 21 
Human Torch 
Patriot 

All Winners Comics 21 
Miss America 
Whizzer 


Note that there are some omissions in the listings. Toro, Bucky II? 


Also Sub-Mariner is listed as appearing in ALL WINNERS 20 
I take it this should be 21, as there was no 20.

			*	*	*

Aug 12, 2007 1:16 pm 
By Dhall

This was meant to go in Bug reports...<sigh> 
Would someone be kind enough to move it for me? 

Thanks.

			*	*	*

Aug 12, 2007 1:38 pm 
By Somebody
Director

This *was* in BR - I saw it there earlier today. It got moved.

			*	*	*

Aug 12, 2007 2:04 pm 
By Dhall

Thanks, then it's probably been moved here so we can propose additions.

			*	*	*

Aug 12, 2007 3:54 pm 
By Dhall

All Winners Comics 19 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Miss America 
Captain America II 
Bucky II 
Whizzer 
Sub-Mariner 

ISBISA/Meke (also in fb one year ago) 

Note: That the All Winners Squad is already known as the All Winners Squad, in Isbisas note. 


Isbisa commits the crime of the ages but is foiled by the All Winners Squad. What is the Crime of the Ages you might ask? A series of small crimes designed to delay the squad from finding Isbisa, while he attempts to steal an atomic weapon. When unmasked, Isbisa turns out to be the museum curators assistant. 


All Winners Comics 21 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Whizzer 
Sub-Mariner 
Miss America 
Captain America III (also in fb) 
Bucky II (also in fb) 


Future Man (also in fb) 
Madame Death (also in fb) 


Future Man comes back in time and teams-up with Madame Death to wipe out 20th Century Humans, but fails miserably due to sheer incompetence, and the All Winners Squad. 


Miss America 
MISS AMERICA MAGAZINE 5 
**WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
**WI? 4 
ALL TEEN 20 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
** S-H2 22 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 60 
 
CV 1-FB 
SUN GIRL 1 
CV 1-FB 
CV2 1 
** V&SW 2-FB-FB 
{GSA 1-FB} 
**GSA 1-FB 
** V&SW 2-FB-FB 
A 185-FB 
WOSM@ 4/3-FB 
A 186-FB 
WOSM@ 4/3-FB 
A 186-FB 

Whizzer 
WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
WI? 4 
ALL TEEN 20 
KID KOMICS 7 
KID KOMICS 10 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
S-H2 22 
CV 1-FB 
CV 2-FB 
CV2 1 
** V&SW 2-FB-FB (wedding) 
GSA 1-FB (wedding) 
V&SW 2-FB-BTS <-REMOVE 
GSA 1-FB (nuclear explosion, 1949) 
** V&SW 2-FB-FB (at hospital) 
A 185-FB 
WOSM@ 4/3-FB 
A 186-FB 
WOSM@ 4/3-FB 
GSA 1-FB 
A 186-FB 
GSA 1 
 
COC 1 
COC 2-BTS 
COC 3-BTS 
V&SW 1 
** V&SW 2-FB 
V&SW 2 
H2 440 

Human Torch 
M/U 1-FB 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 
M/U 3 
WX2 14-FB 
WI? 4 
SAGAHT 3 
YOUNG MEN 24 <- PROBABLY S/B YOUNG MEN 24-FB 
WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 19 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 21 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
WI? 4 <-REMOVE, WI? 4 ENDS BEFORE ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
S-H2 22 
CV 1-FB 

SPIRIT OF '76/WILLIAM NASLUND 
INV 14 
INV 15 
CA@ 13 
**CA 215-FB 
WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 19 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
CA@ 6-FB <-REMOVE 
WI? 4 
**CA 215-FB 
**WI 4? 
**CA 215-FB 
CA@ 6 <-REMOVE 

Sub-Mariner 
WX2 14-FB 
WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 19 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 21 
WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 20 <- REMOVE, NO SUCH COMIC (UNLESS THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE ALL TEEN 20?) 
WI? 4 <-REMOVE 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 



PATRIOT 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 74 
CA@ 13-FB 
WI? 4 
**CA 215-FB 
**WI? 4 
**CA 215-FB 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21-FB 
ALL WINNERS 21 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
S-H2 22 
**CA@ 6-FB 
CV 1-FB 
CA@ 6 
CA 284 
CA 285 

Toro 
INV 38 
INV 39 
INV2 1-FB 
MARVELS 1 
TCORPS 1 
TCORPS 2 
[CA5 5-FB] 
CA '01-FB 
M/U 1-FB 
**WI? 4 
**YOUNG MEN 24-FB-BTS 
**WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
** S-H2 22 
CV 1-FB 
SAGAHT 4 
A 134-FB 
{SUB-M 14 (19:3 - 19:5)-FB} 
SUB-M 14 (9:5 - 11:1)-FB 
SUB-M 14 

BUCKY II/FRED DAVIS 
M/PRM 30 
WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21-FB 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
S-H2 22 
**CA@ 6-FB 
CV 1-FB 
CV2 1-FB 
{TB 38} 
TB 39 
TB 40 
TB 49 


ISBISA/MEKE/ Dr. I.S. Bishoff/ DR. SANDERSON (real name added, Sanderson is an alias.) 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 19-FB 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
**GSA 1-FB-BTS (As revealed in V& SW 2, Isbisa is responsible for the nuclear explosion) 
** V&SW 2-FB 
**V&SW 2 
S-H2 29 
S-H2 30 


*FUTURE MAN 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 21-FB 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 

*MADAME DEATH 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 21-FB 
ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 


CAPTAIN AMERICA IV/STEVE ROGERS II 
NOM2 24-FB 
CA 155-FB 
{YOUNG MEN 24} <-S/B YOUNG MEN 24/2 
**CA 155-FB 
**YOUNG MEN 24/2 
**CA@ 6 
CA 155-FB 
M/:LG 1-FB 
{CA 153} 
CA 154 
CA 155 
CA 156 
See Grand Director 

NOMAD III/JACK MONROE 
CA 155-FB 
YOUNG MEN 24} <-S/B YOUNG MEN 24/2 
**CA 155-FB 
**YOUNG MEN 24/2 
YOUNG MEN 25 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 25/2 
YOUNG MEN 26 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 26/2 
YOUNG MEN 27 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 27/2 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 27 <-S/B MEN'S ADVENTURE 27/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 <-s/b 76/4 
YOUNG MEN 28 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 28/2 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 28 <-S/B MEN'S ADVENTURE 28/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/3 <-s/b 77/4 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/3 <-s/b 78/4 
CA@ 13-FB 
CA@ 6-FB <-S/B CA@ 6 (IS NOT A FB) 
CA 155-FB 
M/:LG 1-FB 
CA 153} <-HAS ONLY ONE BRACKET. 


RED SKULL III/ALBERT MALIK 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 61 
CA@ 13-FB 
YOUNG MEN 24 <-s/b YOUNG MEN 24/2 
{CA 155-FB} <- Remove, this is only reprinted material from Young Men 24. 
CA@ 13-FB 
ASM@ 5-FB 
ASM 366-FB 
CA@ 13-FB 
ASM@ 5 
CA@ 13-FB 
SOLOA 6 
CA 347 
CA@ 13-BTS 

*HOOVER, J. EDGAR 
S-H2 22 

MASON, LOUISE 
**S-H2 22 
S-H2 2 
S-H2 3 
S-H2 4 

NUKLO/ROBERT FRANK JR. 
GSA 1-FB 
V&SW 2-FB-BTS <-S/B V&SW 2-FB-FB-BTS 
GSA 1-FB 
GSA 1 
 
DAZZ 9 
** V&SW 2-FB 
V&SW 2 
CA@ 8 


CRYSTAL 
H2 279 
V&SW 2 <-S/B V& SW 2-FB 
V&SW 4 
A 234-FB-BTS 

LUNA/LUNA MAXIMOFF [INHUMAN] 
FF 240 
FF 248 
H2 279 
V&SW 2 <-S/B V& SW 2-FB 
V&SW 4 

QUICKSILVER 
H2 279 
V&SW 2 <-S/B V& SW 2-FB 
V&SW 4 
A 234-FB 

VISION 
M/TIO 96 
V&SW 1 
** V&SW 2-FB 
V&SW 2 
V&SW 3 
V&SW 4 
A 234-FB 



SCARLET WITCH 
M/TIO 96 
V&SW 1 
** V&SW 2-FB 
V&SW 2 
V&SW 3 
V&SW 4 
A 234-FB 

TRUMAN, HARRY S 
**CA 215-FB 
**WI? 4 
CA 155-FB

Last edited by Dhall on Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:57 pm, edited 3 times in total. 

			*	*	*

Aug 12, 2007 4:48 pm 
By jephyork
Director

IIRC, Isbisa also showed up in Vision and the Scarlet Witch #2 -- maybe there's some clues there. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Aug 12, 2007 5:47 pm 
By Dhall

Thanks Jeph, yeah it's all supposed to be the same Isbisa.

			*	*	*

Aug 12, 2007 6:45 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

I had suggested something similar back in September. The main difference was I counted the seperate chapters as seperate stories, becuase the page numbering restarted with each chapter. 

And yeah, there's no All-Winners #20.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 12, 2007 7:16 pm 
By Dhall

Sounds good Fury. I'll take a look at your post. 
I've updated mine, with material from CA @6, CA 215-FB, She-Hulk2 22, CA 155-fb, and V& SW 2 (from researching Isbisa) 
I've not looked at CA @ 13 yet. 

Dave H

			*	*	*

Aug 12, 2007 8:57 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Somebody wrote:
>>>
This *was* in BR - I saw it there earlier today. It got moved.
<<<

We moved it because the only item appropriate to Bug Reports was the reminder that it's missing from the Key. Everything else in the original post is more appropriate for the Marvel Universe Forum. 


watching: my cousin vinny

			*	*	*

Thread 11

Subject: Grimbat and Melnoa

Aug 14, 2007 9:25 pm 
By Ork

Hi, 

I think these two don't appear in M/CP 121/2 and M/CP 122/2 but in M/CP 121/3 and M/CP 122/3

			*	*	*

Thread 12

Subject: Thanos War A 125 & CM 27-33

Aug 12, 2007 2:09 pm 
By Dhall

Thanos War 

A 125 & CM 27-33 

Note: The Avengers Index does some odd things to the chronology of this period, pushing Cm 27-30 up to occurring during A 119, instead of during A 125. 

This simply does not work for the simple reason that both A 125 and CM 27 share some of the same scenes, meaning that CM 27-32 must occur as originally intended during A 125. I will attempt to explain this so that it makes sense without everyone having to dive into the books. 

The index cannot be correct because the same scenes from Page 3 of A 125 appear in CM 27, namely that Lou-Ann Savannah gains entry to Avengers Mansion by using Rick Jones entry pass, and collapses in Caps arms, just as seen in A 125. So if CM 27 is occurring at the same time as the first portion of A 125, then logically CM 28-30 must occur during A 125, as depicted in A 125, rather than during A 119. 

This would be consistent with the recap page in A 125, which shows that CM 27-32 occur during A 125. 


Following along with the books: 


Avengers 125 Pages 1-2: The Avengers return from Vietnam, with Libra, this continues from A 124. 

A 125 Page 3/Cm 27: (Continued from A 125 Pages 1-2) Back at Avengers Mansion, Cap, Vision, and Iron Man investigate a visitor, a girl they do not know who has Rick Jones entry pass to the mansion. (This is Lou-Ann Savannah, Ricks then current love interest.) She warns them about Thanos, then collapses. A further breakdown of this event follows: 

A 125 Page 3 panel 1: (continued from pgs. 1-2) Iron Man continues his recap of A 123-124. 
A 125 Page 3 Panel 2: Iron Man still talking about Moondragon. Cap realizes there is a visitor. 

Cm 27 Page 10 Panel 1: Cap, Iron Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Black Panther: At Avengers Mansion, Cap realizes that they have an unexpected visitor. Panther tells him to activate the visual monitor. 

CM 27 Page 10 Panel 2: On the monitor, a dark haired girl is visible, Iron Man and Vision have dialogue about how they do not know who she is. 

A 125 Page 3, Panel 3: Iron man asks Cap, if someone followed him to the mansion, while they observe the girl. Vision notes that she has a card. 

CM 27 Page 10 Panel 3: Lou-Ann shows Rick Jones Avengers ID to the camera. 

CM 27 Page 10 Panel 4: Cap, Iron Man, and Vision decide that it could be a trap. 

A 125 Page 3, Panel 4: The three head towards the door 

Cm 27 Page 10 Panel 5: Cap, Iron Man, and Black Panther shown heading for the door. 

CM 27 Page 10 Panels 6-7 & A 125 Page 3 Panels 4-5 are the same: 
Lou-Ann tells Cap that a trap has been set for Rick, by Thanos, then she passes out in Caps arms. 
A 125 shows a slightly different angle, where you can see into the entryway, where Vision is standing. 

CM 27 Page 19: Captain Marvel returns to Earth, looking for Lou-Ann. He meets Black Panther, who escorts him into the room, where Lou-Ann lies near death. Cap and Iron Man are also present. Rick watches helplessly from the Negative Zone. 

CM 28: Rick and the Avengers watch Lou-Ann sleep, while Rick explains to them, about Marvels encounters with Thanos. Scarlet Witch provides Marvel with a new costume. The Controller attacks (under Thanos direction.) At least a part of one wing of the mansion is reduced to rubble. 

CM 29: Continued from Cm 28: While Rick lies under the rubble in Avengers mansion, Eon spirits CM away to give him cosmic awareness. 

CM 30: Cm returns to the mansion, and works with Iron Man to track the Controller. Iron Man leaves for the Western US to track Thanos, as seen in M/FEA 12. Captain Marvel rescues Lou-Ann, whom the Controller has kidnapped, then he defeats the Controller. 

M/FEA 12: Iron Man returns to the western base, and encounters The Thing, and the Blood Brothers. 
(He is shown leaving for this trip in CM 30.) 

M/TU 16 & 17: Even though Captain Marvel has detected an urgent problem in San Francisco, he stays in New York to investigate the Kree Alpha Stone. 

DD 107: Marvel and Rick Jones go to San Francisco, and help DD, Black Widow, and Moondragon defeat Terrex. 

D 108: Moondragon gives DD a ride to New York City. 

CM 30 Page 18 Panels 7-10: Jarvis answers a knock on the mansion door, which turns out to be Drax, the Destroyer. 

CM 31: (Note: CM 31 and 32, are already listed in their correct positions as occurring during A 125) 
Cm and Moondragon(last in DD 108) team up, then find the Avengers battling Drax at Avengers mansion (clearly directly continued from page 18 of CM 30) CM calms them down, but Thanos uses the cosmic cube to transport Drax, Iron Man, CM, and Moondragon to Titan. Thanos defeats them, and uses the cube to attain godhood. 

CM 32: Cm continues his battle with Thanos forces, then changes places with Rick. Isaac returns Rick to Earth, where Rick dares him to fight CM. 


Avengers 125 Page 4: Page 4 is a flashback recap of Cm 27-32, which are meant to occur between pages of A 125. (This recap begins with the last page of CM 27) 

A 125 Page 5-10: The remaining Avengers (minus Iron Man who was kidnapped by Thanos in CM 31) fight Thanos fleet in space around the Earth. One ship from the fleet crashes into a building in New York City. 

CM 33 Pages 1-6: Thanos battles CM. Thanos notices the ship crashing into the city, and realizes that the Avengers have taken his bait. 

CM 33 Page 7: Thanos leaves CM, who wakes up and talks with Isaac. 

A 125 Pages 11-17: The Avengers destroy Thanos fleet. 

A 125 Page 18: Back on Earth, the Avengers land their ship, while secretly Thanos observes them. 

CM 33 Page 8: Thanos continues to observe the Avengers, he puts them out of phase by one second with Earth, rendering them invisible to everyone, and unable to affect events. 

CM 33 Pages 9-18: Mantis is able to make herself visible to CM, explain what has happened. CM and Drax team-up and defeat Thanos, by attacking the cosmic cube. 

MCP listings should be changed to follow the storyline as follows: 

Black Panther 
A 118 
DEF 11 
A 119 
CM 27 <-Remove 
CM 28 <-Remove 
CM 29-BTS <-Remove 
A 119 
CA 169 
CA 170 
CA 171 
A 121 
A 122 
A 123 
A 124 
A 125 
**CM 27 pg. 10 pnl 1-5 
**CM 27 PG. 19 
**CM 28 
**CM 29-BTS 
CM 31 
CM 32 
A 125 
CM 33 
A 126 

Captain America 
A 118 
DEF 11 
A 119 
CM 27 <-Remove 
CM 28 <-Remove 
CM 29-BTS <-Remove 
A 119 
DEF 13-FB 
CA 168 
CA 169 
CA 170 
CA 171 
A 121 
CA 171 
CA 172 
CA 173 
CA 174 
CA 175 
AVF 2-FB 
CA 175 
AVF 1 
AVF 2 
AVF 3 
AVF 4 
AVF 5 
AVF 6 
AVF 7 
AVF 8 
AVF 10 
AVF 11 
AVF 12 
CA 175 
A 125 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 1-2 
**A 125 PG 3 PNL 3 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 4 
**A 125 PG. 3 PNL 4 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 5 
**A 125 PG. 3 PNL 4-5 ~ CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 6-7 
**CM 27 PG. 19 
**CM 28 
**CM 29-BTS 
CM 31 
CM 32 
A 125 
CM 33 
A 125 <-Remove 
CM 33 <-Remove 



Iron Man 
A 118 
DEF 11 
A 119 
IM 55-FB 
IM 55 
IM 56 
CM 27 <-Remove 
CM 28 <-Remove 
CM 29-BTS <-Remove 
CM 30 <-Remove 
M/FEA 12 <-Remove 
A 119 
DEF 13-FB 
IM 57 
IM 58 
IM 59 
IM 60-FB 
IM 60 
IM 61 
IM 62 
IM 63 
IM 64 
IM 65 
IM 66-FB 
IM 66 
PM 17 
IM 67 
A 120 
CA 171 
A 120 
A 121 
A 122 
A 123 
A 124 
A 125 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 1-2 
**A 125 PG. 3 PNL 3 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 4 
**A 125 PG. 3 PNL 4 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 5 
**CM 27 PG. 19 
**CM 28 
**CM 29-BTS 
**CM 30 
**M/FEA 12 
CM 31 
CM 32 

CM 33 

Scarlet Witch 
A 118 
DEF 11 
A 119 
CM 27 <-Remove 
CM 28 <-Remove 
CM 29-BTS <-Remove 
A 119 
A 120 
A 121 
A 122 
A 123 
A 124 
A 125 
** CM 27 
**CM 28 
**CM 29-BTS 
CM 31 
CM 32 
A 125 
CM 33 

Vision 
A 118 
DEF 11 
A 119 
CM 27 <-Remove 
CM 28 <-Remove 
CM 29-BTS <-Remove 
A 119 
A 120 
A 121 
A 122 
A 123 
A 124 
A 125 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 1-2 
**A 125 PG. 3 PNL 3 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 4 
**A 125 PG. 3 PNL 4 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 6-7 ~ A 125 PG. 3 PNL 4-5-BTS 
**CM 28 
**CM 29-BTS 
CM 31 
CM 32 
A 125 
CM 33 

Thanos 
CM 25 
CM 26 
CM 27 
CM 28 
CM 29 
CM 30 
M/FEA 12 
CM 30 
CM 31 
CM 32 
A 125 <-Remove 
CM 32 
CM 33 
A 125 
CM 33 

SAVANNAH, LOU-ANN 
CM 22 
CM 23 
CM 24 
CM 25 
CM 26 
**A 125 PG. 3 PNL 2 
CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 1-2 
**A 125 PG. 3 PNL 3 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 3 
**CM 27 PG. 10 PNL 6-7 ~ A 125 PG. 3 PNL 4-5 
**CM 28 
**CM 29 
**CM 30 
**CM 31 
**CM 32 
**CM 34 

*DOUGLAS, YVETTE 
CM 32-FB 

DRAX/ARTHUR DOUGLAS 
CM 32-FB 
{IM 55-FB-FB} 
IM 55-FB 
IM 55 
LR 6/2 
CM 27 
CM 28 
CM 29 
**CM 30 
CM 31 
CM 32 
CM 33 

BASILISK/BASIL ELKS 
M/TU 16 
**M/TU 17-FB 
M/TU 17 
M/TU 47-FB 
M/TIO 17 
M/TU 47 
FF 289 

STARFOX/EROS 
DD 105-FB 
{IM 55-FB-FB} 
CM 27 
CM 29 
**M/FEA 12 
CM 31 
CM 32 
CM 34 <- s/b CM 34-FB 

MOONDRAGON 
DD 108 
CM 31 
CM 32 
CM 33 
CM 34 <- S/B CM 34-FB 
A 133 


DEATH 
A:CQ 5-FB 
KULL3 2 
AF 8-FB 
DL 9/4 
WIH 9 
WIH 10 
WIH 11 
WIH 12 
WIH 13 
WIH 14 
WIH 15 
{CM 27} 
**CM 28 
**CM 30 
**M/FEA 12 
**CM 30 
**CM 31 
**CM 32 
**CM 33 
KS 
CX 43/2 
DPOOL '98-FB 
M/GN 1

			*	*	*

Aug 13, 2007 9:27 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Issue #6 of the first volume of the OFFICIAL MARVEL INDEX TO THE AVENGERS explains that there's a months-long gap within CAPAIN MARVEL #30. The reunion of Rick and Lou Ann in that issue occur in late June or early July. The arrival of Drax at Avengers Mansion in that issue happens "well after Halloween." This Index goes on to say that many of the scenes from CM shown in A 125 are actually flashbacks.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 13, 2007 10:06 pm 
By Dhall

Paul, For that to be true, All of the first half of A 125 would have to be a flashback, when in fact it continues directly on from A 123 and A 124. 

What the index says, simply makes no sense, and contradicts the books. 

The first half of A 125 occurs at the same time as CM 27, we know this because the SAME scenes of Lou-Ann entering Avenger's Mansion are shown in both books. 

The index either misses or ignores this fact completely. 

I'm not disputing there are flashbacks in A 125. What you (and the index) are talking about here is an entire fb page which is a summary of CM 27-32, showing that those issues occurred between pages of A 125. 

If there needs to be a several month long gap for calendar purposes, it should be during A 125, not A 119 as the index indicates.

			*	*	*

Aug 14, 2007 9:49 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Dave, Avengers Index vol. 1 #6 outlines this in detail -- the upshot is that the scene of Lou Ann's arrival at Avengers Mansion in A 125 is actually a flashback to CM 27. It is not a scene that occurs during the course of A 125. Here's how A 125 breaks down: 

FIRST SEGMENT 
1-3p1 -- Avengers and Libra return to NY from Vietnam ("early December," according to the Index) 

SECOND SEGMENT 
3p2-5p2 -- summarizes the Thanos War stories in CM 27-32 
The Index says: "The caption at the top of page 5 states that these stories all take place in the two days between [3:1 and 5:3], but that is impossible. Those stories require much more than two days to happen, because among other things they include trips to and from Titan, crossovers into other titles, and the destruction and restoration of Avengers mansion. The Thanos War in CM 25-32 must unfold in a much grander and more leisurely manner than on the frantic two-day schedule indicated. This entire segment is here treated as a flashback to CM 27-32, some of which took place during the long gap [of more than five months*] in the story in A 119...and the remainder of which (from Drax the Destroyer's arrival at the Avengers ansion at the end of CM 30 through CM 32) takes place during the two-day interval between the first and third segments of this story." 

THIRD SEGMENT 
5p3-18 -- overlaps with parts of CM 32-33 -- about two days after the first segment "in early December" 


*The five-month gap in A 119 occurs between 5p2 and 5p3, with the first part immediately after the Avengers/Defenders battle in "May" and the second part "at Halloween." In those months, the Index lists the following stories: 

IM 55-56 
CA 168 
LCPM 17 
CM 27-29 
CA 30 (1-18p7) 
M/FEA 12 
And a few uneventful months (July-Oct) of restoration work on the Mansion

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 15, 2007 7:41 pm 
By Dhall

Paul, 
I know what the index Says. What I am saying is that the index is mistaken. The index is calling part of A 125 a flashback, when it isnt a flashback, and just because you call something a flashback doesnt make it so. 

You are a reasonable fellow, so I am sure that you will accept evidence from the actual issue, A 125. 

Here is how A 125 breaks down: 
Page 1-2: Directly continue from A 124, the Avengers return from Vietnam. 
Last panel of Page 2: Cap wants Iron Man to talk to him, so that he can take his mind off of recent events in his own Comic. 
Page 3 Panel 1: Iron Man recounts the events of A 123-124, for Cap's benefit and is mostly talking about Mantis. 
Page 3 Panel 2: Iron Man: I tell you Cap, that girls a won 
Interrupted by buzzing sound. Cap  Weve got a visitor at the front door, no less. 
Page 3 Panel 3: Lou-Ann visible on monitor. 
Iron Man:  Somebody follow you here Cap? 
Cap:  I Hope not! No, I dont recognize her. 
Vision:  Wait she has a card 
Page 3 Panel 4: Iron Man: Its Rick Jones entry pass. More dialogue 
Page 3 panels 5-6 Cap opens the door, Lou-Ann swoons into his arms, and she tells him that Thanos has set a trap for Rick. 

Page 4: Flashback to events of CM 27 through 32, which occur in between pages 3 and 5 of A 125 
Page 5: 2 days after Lou-Anns entrance (is clearly a topical reference, and could be two weeks, two months, or however long it takes CM 27-32 to occur.) 

So you see, Page 3 is NOT a flashback, but is instead, continued directly from A 123-124, without a break. Calling it a flashback, does NOT make it a flashback. 

Im not going to argue about what issues it is early December or Halloween because all such references are topical, and Im not interested in a calendar based arrangement, only a Chronological one. 

Somebody has already shown that the following issues: CA 168 & LCPM 17 do NOT occur where the index has them placed, so the MCP already disagrees with the index to some extent. 

I agree with the index when it says that the CM issues occur over more than two days, but so what. They can occur over two months, or two years, as long as that time period occurs between pages 3 and 5 of A 125. The obvious and correct solution is that more than two days occur here. 


Dave H.

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Aug 16, 2007 10:28 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

The Marvel Index intentionally reinterpreted the scene, inserting a gap between 3p1 and 3p2. Yes, I am a reasonable fellow in that I follow the rules...one of which is "the Index is correct unless it is impossible for it to be correct." Is it impossible for a gap to exist between those two panels? 

Seems to me Marvel is telling us through the Index that the "I tell you, Cap, that girl's a won--" is a flashback to another conversation Cap and Shellhead had months previously. That may not have been the way the story was originally intended to read, but Marvel editors saw a continuity flub and accepted the Olshevsky explanation. 

So, yes, I am saying that the Index calling page 3 a flashback does make it a flashback in my book. Unless I'm missing something, I'm afraid you haven't disproven the lack of a gap; you haven't proven that what Marvel says about the chronology (nevermind the temporal references) is wrong.

Paul B.

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Aug 17, 2007 7:04 am 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Dhall wrote:
>>>
The index either misses or ignores this fact completely. 
<<<

It does neither. The index addresses the issue, head on. 


watching: gilmore girls

			*	*	*

Aug 17, 2007 7:12 am 
By Dhall

Paul, that argument amounts to calling a fish a dog, and hoping that it will bark. And by that I mean having Blind Faith in the Index. 

Clearly the sequence is NOT a flashback. Therefore clearly the index is wrong. A 125 itself tells us that CM 27-32 occur between pages 3-5. 
That's all the evidence that is needed. 

Also the MCP has already been changed to remove CA 168 and PM 17 from the "gap in A 119." because these issues do not fit there. Neither does CM 27-32. 

PM 17 in particular references an Iron Man issue about 10 issues after the Index placement. 

SO we already know that something is wrong with the index at this point.

			*	*	*

Aug 17, 2007 8:50 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Dave, we all know the Index is fallible. But to state that because it has been wrong in one case it must be wrong in another is faulty reasoning. There's a fundamental difference between the way CM 27-32 was handled and the way, say, PM 17 was handled. 

The Index obviously missed the Iron Man reference in PM 17. It's an oversight. Hey, it happens. 

The placement of CM 27-32 by the Index is not an oversight at all -- quite the opposite, in fact. The Index comes right out and basically says that, yes, they know A 125 wasn't written this way and it doesn't read this way ("it's obviously not a flashback," as you'd say), BUT we find we must reinterpret the issue to make a flashback out of a scene that appears to be current story. The Index's chronological placement was a deliberate decision. The flashback interpretation was presented in volume #1 of the Avengers Index and reiterated in volume #2 years later. Marvel claimed this is the new status quo -- the way the chronology should be viewed. 

The MCP policy is (and other Directors can correct me if I'm wrong) -- the Index is right unless we can prove that it's wrong. 

So, again, we must prove that the Lou Ann arrival/CM 27-32 scenes can't be a flashback in A 125. Marvel's basically told us that "that's not the way it reads" is not an argument that supports impossibility. The argument that the flashback interpretation doesn't hold water must come from some other proof. Do you have that proof?

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 11:04 am 
By Dhall

>>>
The MCP policy is (and other Directors can correct me if I'm wrong) -- the Index is right unless we can prove that it's wrong. 
<<<

Is this rule in the faq? No. 

So if this is the rule, I would like to see it clarified and put in the faq. 

This would save both time and effort spent discussing this rule, which in general, seems to me to be often used as an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. 

If the rule gets in the faq, so we can all see how it will be fairly applied, then I probably won't end up feeling that way, in the future. 

And by the way, even if we are going to treat page 3 of A 125 as a "flashback." It still adds new information to CM 27, and needs to be added to the MCP.

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 8:35 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Dhall wrote:
>>>
The MCP policy is (and other Directors can correct me if I'm wrong) -- the Index is right unless we can prove that it's wrong. 
<<<

Is this rule in the faq? No.
<<<

Well, it's not in the faq, because I don't remember the question being asked that frequently. I'm not even sure what the question is, but I do know this policy has been stated several times before in the forums, by Directors. 

For the record, the Handbook (in all of its permutations), the Index, and the Saga are considered secondary sources (that is, secondary to the stories they reference). For the purposes of the Project, these secondary sources are treated as "right, unless they're manifestly wrong." 

The Index can quite easily overlook an appearance, when constructing their before-and-after appearances. The Handbook can mix up the secret identities of two different characters. Marvel Saga can place stories in order, and yet future stories can overrule that order. 

None of that is the case here. It's not an oversight, or a mistake on the Index's part. It's clearly intentional. So saying "the Index is mistaken" doesn't carry the weight necessary to overrule the Index. I think everyone here agrees that the Index can have mistakes, since they're written and edited by humans, but here the Index has addressed the issue, head-on. 


watching: smallville

			*	*	*

Thread 13

Subject: Captain Universe

Sep 03, 2006 9:29 pm
By Dhall

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/STEVE COFFIN
MICRO 12
M/SPT 9
Note: Captain Universe appears to be not a character, per se, as much as a concept. This listing, therefore, is the chronology for Steve Coffin, which includes the period of time when he held the Captain Universe powers.

Steve Coffin was never Captain Universe in the Micronauts issues, that would be his dad, Raymond Coffin. 

You could list Steve as Captain Universe II. 

Also, the Coffins appear in M/SPT2 9, not M/SPT 9.

			*	*	*

Sep 03, 2006 11:19 pm 
By Somebody
Director

And on that note, the Captain Universe one-shots (and Amazing Fantasy backups, which were meant to lead into a miniseries that never happened - or at least has been indefinitely postponed) made it clear that the Uni-Power was sentient and always had been. Wouldn't it qualify for a listing of it's own thusfore?

			*	*	*

Sep 04, 2006 5:59 am 
By Paul O'Brien
Director

I agree, the CAPTAIN UNIVERSE one-shots point to the Uni-Power being an actual character. Of course, the Uni-Power isn't Captain Universe itself - it just empowers other characters to become Captain Universe. But we should have a listing for "Uni-Power" which would include actual or BTS appearances for every appearance of Captain Universe.

-- Paul O'Brien

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Sep 04, 2006 3:28 pm 
By Dhall

Edited: 

In Micronauts 35, a combined Doctor Strange and Commander Rann become Captain Universe. In publication order, so far we have: 


**UNI-POWER 
MICRO 8 
M/SPT2 9 
M/SPT2 10 
M/SPT2 11 
MICRO 35 

add some more, it's fun. :)

Last edited by Dhall on Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total. 

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Sep 04, 2006 3:46 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Well, there's the issues in the CU:Power Unimaginable TPB, which, as well as Marvel Spotlight #9-11, has Incredible Hulk Annual #10, Marvel Fanfare #25, Web of Spider-Man Annual #5-6 [backups, I think], Marvel Comics Presents #148, and Cosmic Power Unlimited #5. 

And there's the Cosmic Spidey issues (that whole sequence was the Uni-Power, even if the costume only appeared at the end, right?)

			*	*	*

Sep 04, 2006 5:57 pm 
By Arthur
Director

A Capt Universe was also in CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS #1

			*	*	*

Sep 04, 2006 7:06 pm 
By Somebody
Director

And Guardians of the Galaxy #31-33 (somewhat illogically, set in the then-MU-present)

			*	*	*

Sep 06, 2006 6:54 am 
By lkseitz

I have memories of a backup story in a Marvel Annual featuring a Captain Universe. I think he was fighting a Quantum Mechanic. Anyone remember the issue?

Lee K. Seitz 
Slowly adding insignificant characters to the MCP

			*	*	*

Sep 06, 2006 7:33 am 
By Frederic Krier

The quantum mechanic story was in Web of Spider-Man Annual 5.

			*	*	*

Sep 23, 2006 2:30 pm 
By Andy Grant

The last time I saw Captain Universe, the Uni-power had bestowed itself upon someone who was schizophrenic, and after the adventure was over found itself unable to leave. I think it was in the final issue of Cosmic Powers Unlimited. Did this ever get resolved? 

Also, there were a bunch of bad guys tracking/hunting the power and trying to trap it as a sub-plot. Was it ever explained who they were?

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Aug 16, 2007 6:46 pm 
By Somebody

Looking this up since the Gabriel Vargas CU's turned up in Annihilation: Conquest - Star-Lord, and noticed that we never DID get a complete listing of Uni-Power appearances... 

There's a listing here, but I can't vouch for it's completeness or accuracy (beyond what's already been said here), so if anyone could check (and order, in some cases) them... http://www.marveldatabase.com/Captain_U ... ppearances

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Aug 19, 2007 10:54 am 
By Arthur
Director

This is the list Somebody referred to. I have confirmed those I am able to. 

Ray Coffin (astronaut), Micronauts, #8 (August 1979) - CONFIRMED 
Steve Coffin (son of Ray), Marvel Spotlight, #9 (November 1980) - CONFIRMED M/SPT2 9 
Clare Dodgson and Ann Dodgson-Stafford (twins), Marvel Spotlight, #10 (January 1981) - CONFIRMED M/SPT2 10 
Monty Walsh (burglar), Marvel Spotlight, #11 (March 1981) - CONFIRMED M/SPT2 11 
Arcturus Rann, Doctor Strange, Micronauts, #35 (November 1981) - CONFIRMED 
Bruce Banner, Incredible Hulk, annual #10 (1981) - CONFIRMED 
unknown (female), Marvel Super-Heroes Contest of Champions, #1 (June 1982) - CONFIRMED 
Delayne Masters (student), Marvel Fanfare, Volume 1, #25 (March 1986) - CONFIRMED M/FAN 25/2 
Evan Swann (professor), Web of Spider-Man, annual #5 (1989) - CONFIRMED WOSM@ 5/2 
Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, #158, #159, #160 (December 1989 - January 1990) - CONFIRMED 
Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man, #327, #328, #329 (December 1989 - February 1990) - CONFIRMED 
Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man, #59, #60, #61 (December 1989 - February 1990) - CONFIRMED 
Spider-Man, Quasar, #7 (February 1990) - CONFIRMED 
Eddie (child), Web of Spider-Man, annual #6 (1990) - CONFIRMED WOSM@ 6/2 
Casey (dog), What If...? Volume 2, #31 (November 1991) - CONFIRMED 
L'Matto (Badoon), Guardians of the Galaxy, 30, #31, #32, #33 (November 1992 - February 1993) - CONFIRMED 
Elijah Jackson (retired baseball player), Marvel Comics Presents, #148 (February 1994) - CONFIRMED M/CP 148/2 
unknown (male), X-Men/Captain Universe: Sleeping Giants, #1 (1994 giveaway) 
Roland Taylor (writer, schizophrenic), Cosmic Powers Unlimited, #5 (May 1996) 
Ted Simmons (policeman), Amazing Fantasy, Volume 2, #13 (December 2005) - CONFIRMED 
Uni-Power, Amazing Fantasy, Volume 2, #14 (December 2005) - CONFIRMED 
Dr. Gilbert Wiles (flashback), Bruce Banner, Hulk, Captain Universe / Hulk, #1 (January 2006) 
Daredevil, Captain Universe / Daredevil, #1 (January 2006) 
X-23, Captain Universe / X-23, #1 (January 2006) 
Invisible Woman, Gladiator, Captain Universe / Invisible Woman, #1 (January 2006) 
Krosakis (warlord), Silver Surfer, Gabriel Vargas (veteran), Captain Universe / Silver Surfer, #1 (January 2006) 
The Captain (possibly a dream), Nextwave: Agents of HATE, #10 (November 2006) 

Retrieved from "http://www.marveldatabase.com/Captain_Universe/Appearances" 

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 12:25 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Well, if it wasn't obvious, I can confirm the Captain Universe/[team-up] issues for myself. Here's a still-provisional listing then, based on Arthur's post... 

**UNI-POWER 
MICRO 8 
M/SPT2 9 
M/SPT2 10 
M/SPT2 11 
MICRO 35 
H@ 10 
COC 1 
M/FAN 25/2 
PPTSS 158-BTS  
WOSM 59-BTS  
ASM 327-BTS  
M/CP 39/4-BTS   
PPTSS 159-BTS  
WOSM 60-BTS  
ASM 328-BTS  
PPTSS 160-BTS  
WOSM 61-BTS  
Q 7-BTS  
ASM 329 
WOSM@ 6/2 
WI?2 31 
GOTG 30  
GOTG 31  
GOTG 32  
GOTG 33  
M/CP 148/2 
X/CAPUNIVERSE  
CPU 5  
AAF2 13/2 
AAF2 14/2 
CAPUNIVERSE/HULK 
CAPUNIVERSE/DD 
CAPUNIVERSE/X23 
CAPUNIVERSE/INVWOM 
CAPUNIVERSE/SS 

 - These are issues where Spidey has the power of Captain Universe, but not the "instruction manual" or full costume, so I'm uncertain whether the sentience of the Uni-Power is there until ASM 329. Thoughts? 
 - In Spidey's chronology for the period, even if it's not listed on that page's list. Either it should be here, or should be moved in Spidey's chronology so as not to be in the "Cosmic Spidey" period. 
 - These Guardians of the Galaxy issues apparently haven't been inserted into the MCP yet (despite listings for Vance Astro and Aleta which use codenames they only adopted in the series). Yes, they're part of an arc set in the then-present-day MU. 
 - Not yet confirmed.

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 5:48 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Somebody wrote:
>>>
 - These are issues where Spidey has the power of Captain Universe, but not the "instruction manual" or full costume, so I'm uncertain whether the sentience of the Uni-Power is there until ASM 329. Thoughts? 
<<<

I don't think the sentience is present, but it's essence is. I would list the issues with a BTS as you have. It would be like... someone using an unconscious Magneto to lift cars around(or something) for an arc, and a few issues later revealing it was Magneto's powers but not Magneto.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 7:12 pm 
By Somebody
Director

1) In Archive 59, Jason Doty did an analysis of X-Men/Captain Universe (the thread of which is included in the spoiler tag below - spoiler rather than quote for sheer length). Looks VERY non-canon. I've also pulled the analyses of the Amazing Fantasy backups & Captain Universe/XYZ issues from the archive in the same way

2) Even given my line of thought, which Col_Fury agrees with, I shouldn't have put a BTS on PPTSS 158, since that includes the Uni-Power trying (and failing, because of outside factors) to properly bond with Spider-Man, and thus something not BTS.

3) SeanCurtin did a partial listing of it (as Captain Universe, rather than Uni-Power) in Archive 47, and he had it BTS for COC 2 & 3, and the WOSM@ 6 story as story 4 rather than 2, and M/FAN 25 as story 1 rather than 2. Which ones are the typos on the latter, and should there be a listing for the former? {another listing in Archive 26 by Peter Fabricius has 
M/FAN 25/2 and WOSM@ 6/4, so I'm assuming the 2 v 1 is right in both cases firstly).

That leaves the listing as, still provisionally (same notes as above apply for the /s):

**UNI-POWER
CAPUNIVERSE/HULK-FB (9:2-10:3)
MICRO 8
M/SPT2 9
M/SPT2 10
M/SPT2 11
MICRO 35
H@ 10
COC 1
M/FAN 25/2 (or /1?)
PPTSS 158
WOSM 59-BTS 
ASM 327-BTS 
M/CP 39/4-BTS  
PPTSS 159-BTS 
WOSM 60-BTS 
ASM 328-BTS 
PPTSS 160-BTS 
WOSM 61-BTS 
Q 7-BTS 
ASM 329
WOSM@ 6/4 (or /2?)
WI?2 31
GOTG 30 
GOTG 31 
GOTG 32 
GOTG 33 
M/CP 148/2
CPU 5 
AAF2 13/2-FB (3:5-4:1)
AAF2 13/2 (3-8)
AAF2 14/2 (3-8)
CAPUNIVERSE/HULK
CAPUNIVERSE/DD
CAPUNIVERSE/X23
CAPUNIVERSE/INVWOM
CAPUNIVERSE/SS

X-Men/Captain Universe:
Posted: 15 May 2005 04:57 pm Post subject: X-Men and Captain Universe: Sleeping Giants no.1
By Jason Doty

X-Men and Captain Universe: Sleeping Giants no.1, 1994 

Story: Sleeping-Giants 
While I'm taking a bus home, a woman begins to mutate into a tentical having monster and starts attacking the passangers. Before I can exit the bus I'm transformed into Captain Universe and begin to fight the creature. Luckully for me the X-Men arrive (Iceman, Wolverine, Rogue, Gambit, Jubilee) and begin fighting this mutated woman, but she gets away due to my bungaling efforts. Because I got in their way, they chastize me and tell me to stay out of their way. They are recalled by Professor X to the X-Mansion who explaines that many other people have mutated and is spreading like a virus. When another individual is mutated at a mall the X-Men show up to stop him, hearing the comotion as Captain Universe I also converge on the scene. As the X-Men battle mutated individuals, I figure out the problem and save the day. After a timely departure I revert back to my normal self. 

Chronological clues: 
(X-Men in Jim Lee era costumes) 
(Wolverine has bone claws) 
(Hot summer afternoon in NYC, people in shorts and such) 

Characters: 
Jason Doty ( and yes I would like to be the first contributor to make it into the MCP) 
Captain Universe Enigma Force 
Iceman 
Wolverine 
Rogue 
Gambit 
Jubilee 
Professor X 
Roger Fieldston

* * *

Posted: 15 May 2005 06:22 pm 
By jephyork
Director

...Okay, I'm going to assume that you DO know that every single copy of this comic has a different person'a name as Captain Universe. We can't put "Jason Doty" into the MCP. 

In fact, since every single copy of this comic is different -- and it even comes in two versions, "male" and "female" -- I'd say we can pretty quickly disregard it as automatically non-canon. There's no single "correct" version of the story. 

-Jeph!

* * *

Posted: 15 May 2005 07:50 pm 
By Jason Doty

Yes I know, but it was worth a try! As far as being canon or not, I think it could be worth a try. All of the dialog is the same except where your name appears. Since Captain Universe can be anyone the story could be canon no mater who Captain Universe is. It's just a mater of who owns this issue. If you own it more than likely you had it personlized. It would be of value to see where it fits chronologically. So even though I won't make it the Captain Universe character can.

* * *

Posted: 15 May 2005 10:28 pm 
By jephyork
Director

It's not just the different name in every comic -- in half the versions of the book, the character is female! 

And doesn't the issue take place in a different town in every copy, depending on where the kid ordering it lived? 

Sorry, but if no two copies of the book tell exactly the same story, I don't see that it can be treated as "real". 

I was thinking of ordering it and putting my name as "you" and my address as "your town", just for a hoot. But I didn't ... c'est la vie! 

-Jeph!

* * *

Posted: 16 May 2005 01:12 pm 
By Jason Doty

Yes, there are two versions of the book with exactly the same story. They either drew in the female or the male. What I'm saying is the story takes place exactly the same in both. As far as a different town, It is only mentioned once, it is where you are visiting NYC from. 

This comic can be put into continuity. Captain Universe gets the appearance, as well as every one else except for the person that personalized the comic. Just out of curiosity does anyone else own this comic.

* * *

Posted: 16 May 2005 01:15 pm 
By Paul O'Brien
Director

Sorry, Jeph, but I'm with Jason on this. This is a story which exists with two different sets of artwork and as many different versions of the dialogue as there are copies in existence. While any one might conceivably be canon if it existed in isolation, they can't ALL be, because they portray several thousand mutually exclusive versions of the same story! And since there's no rational basis for choosing one over the others, the only logical conclusion is to dismiss it as non-canon.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

* * *

Posted: 16 May 2005 01:27 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Paul O'Brien wrote: 
>>>
Sorry, Jeph, but I'm with Jason on this. 
<<<

Just speculating here, but did you mean, "Sorry, Jason, but I'm with Jeph on this"? 


watching: both sides

* * *
Posted: 16 May 2005 01:29 pm 
By Jason Doty

Paul I believe you meant to say you were with Jeph! and not me on this one. 

Captain Universe can be male or female, who Captain Universe is dos'nt mater. I still believe both stories are exactly the same. Does anyone have a copy of the female version? As far as the dialog goes, thay just insert your name in a word balloon at the appropriate time, all the rest of the dialog is the same. 

This is one of those rare cases where I doubt we'll see this again and there is no precedent. Though this comic may well not be canon, I think we should debate this one further.

* * *

Posted: 16 May 2005 01:31 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Jason Doty wrote: 
>>>
Captain Universe gets the appearance, as well as... 
<<<

Not quite. Captain Universe is more a concept, than a character. 


watching: both sides

* * *

Posted: 16 May 2005 02:20 pm 
By Paul O'Brien
Director

Jason Doty wrote: 
>>>
Paul I believe you meant to say you were with Jeph! and not me on this one. 
<<<

Uh... very possibly.
_________________
-- Paul O'Brien

* * *

Posted: 17 May 2005 02:37 pm 
By rhod

If there's nothing to indicate non-canonicity in any of the other characters appearances, I don't see why this can't be canon. I think it would necessitate a radical overhaul of Captain Universe's listing though, requiring a mass of links eg.: 

Captain Universe V see Spider-man 

Cptain Universe VI see Dr Sloan (or whoever) 

Captain Universe IX 
Sleeping Giants 1 

etc.... could get very messy
Amazing Fantasy #13-14 backups:
Posted: 04 Dec 2005 09:49 pm Post subject: Chronology Review for AF2 13/2-14/2, (Captain Universe)
By Kevin W.
Director

Amazing Fantasy v2 #13/2  14/2 
Written by Jay Faerber 
Drawn by Carlos Magno 

This is the back up story from these two issues, which reintroduces Captain Universe to Marvel audiences. 

Amazing Fantasy v2 #13/2 
Power Corrupted Pt. 1 
Written by Jay Faerber 
Drawn by Carlos Magno 

Appearances: The Uni-Power, New Characters: Cinglet, Xennon, Ted Simmons, Leslie Simmons, Burns 

Synopsis: Pgs. 1-2: Narrative caption reads: The Microverse2 months ago. Cinglet and Xennon, (two funky looking aliens) are investigating a strange asteroid that has a space station attached to it. They enter the vessel and discover an undiscovered language written on the walls. They then open a door leading deeper into the vessel and stumble across a cryogenic tube containing some sort of figure inside 

Pgs. 3-8: Narrative caption reads: Chicago, IL. Now. Ted Simmons, (in the Captain Universe outfit) has come home to his wife to explain the day hes had. It turns out Ted is a beat cop that was trying to rescue a suicidal man, when the Uni-Power possessed him. He rescued the suicidal man and is now telling his wife that hes a superhero now. He goes out on superhero patrol, only to encounter a group of armed thugs who had just robbed a bank, and who are now in a firefight against some other cops out in the street. Ted starts to beat up the bad guys, but then his powers malfunction, and another cop named Burns gets killed in the crossfire. Ted doesnt understand why the powers failed him, and he demands the Captain Universe powers leave his body. 

References: 

There is a single flashback in this issue, which runs from 3p4-4p1: In it, as Ted narrates, we see Ted as a beat cop, trying to rescue a man dangling from a ledge. The Uni-Power suddenly enters his body, and he rescues the man with ease. This obviously occurs shortly before the events on pg. 3 unfold. 

Amazing Fantasy v2 #14/2 
Power Corrupted Pt. 2 
Written by Jay Faerber 
Drawn by Carlos Magno 

Appearances: The Uni-Power, Cinglet, Xennon, New Characters: Gabriel Vargas, Luis 

Synopsis: Pgs. 1-2: Narrative Caption Reads: The MicroverseTwo Months Ago. Continuing right from where we left off from pgs. 1-2 last issue, Cinglet and Xennon pull the cryogenic tube onto their spaceship and examine it further. Their ships computer quickly translates the writing found in the ancient vessel, and they read it to find that the figure placed in the cryogenic tube was placed there as punishment for some crime 

Just then, some sort of energy/meteor shower sweeps through the region, striking Cinglet and Xennons spaceship 

Pgs. 3-8: Narrative Caption reads, Brooklyn, NY. Now. A young thief is running down the sidewalk, having just stolen a few bucks from a local store. A handicapped man in a wheelchair named Gabriel Vargas tries to stop the thief, but the thief escapes. Vargas feels useless in his inability to stop the thief. Luis, a local shop owner, says that the thief only got away with a few bucks, and that Vargas shouldnt beat himself up over it. We learn that Vargas is a local hero in this neighborhood, having gone to war, saved some teammates in an incident during the war, but ended up in a wheelchair. 

Vargas heads home to mope around. Inside his apartment, he is suddenly confronted by the Uni-Power, which appears before him as a glowing orb. The Uni-Power talks directly to Vargas, (something I dont believe its every truly done before), and explains to him that its powers are malfunctioning for some reason, (this is the reason the powers failed Ted Simmons last issue). It tells Vargas that it has seen that he is a man of bravery, and offers to bond with him, if Vargas will help him investigate the cause of its powers malfunctioning. Vargas agrees to go on this quest with the Uni-Power, and the Uni-Power says that before it can restore the use of Vargas legs, it has to go and bond with some of Earths mightiest heroes, to replicate their powers, (it has to do this because its powers are malfunctioning, and not at full strength). The Uni-Power states that it shall go and try and replicate the powers of the Hulk first 

References: 

Pg. 5: The way Vargas is moping around, he makes it sound like his being in a wheelchair is a recent incident. Luis tries to reassure him that hes a hero, and says, You saved two of your men after your humvee hit that mine. The story doesnt specifically say what war Vargas was wounded in, but I think its safe to say the story is hinting this is a soldier who served over in the current Iraq conflict. 

Pg. 8: There is a Daily Bugle newspaper lying on the table in Vargas apartment, which has a picture of the Hulk, and a headline that reads, Hulk Menace. 

This issue leads directly into the Captain Universe: Hulk one-shot, so theres probably not much time that has passed in between the two issues. 

Going by clues in the Captain Universe issues, this all must occur before Murdock Papers in Daredevil, and thus, it is probably more than likely Pre-HOM.
Amazing Fantasy #13-14 backups (2) and Captain Universe/team-up series:
Thread 68

Posted: 19 Dec 2005 01:45 pm Post subject: Captain Universe Series
By Jason Doty

Amazing Fantasy no.13/2 

Power Corrupted Part 1 

Two Months Ago: The Microverse 

Two Aliens and some sort of construct explore an asteroid base, discovering a language they dont know and a chamber. 

Chicago, Now 

A police officer dressed as Captain Universe explains how he got his powers to his wife. 

Flashback- (While on shift the day before) While trying to save a jumper intent on committing suicide the officer sees a strange blue light and suddenly feels power coursing through him. 

After explaining he flies off on patrol. 
He comes across police engaged in a fire fight with two body armored robbers. 
He takes out one robber with a blast, but the other fires on him. 
He tries to blast the other, but nothing happens, the robber continues firing and the bullets pass through him striking and killing an officer behind him. 
He picks up the dead officers gun and shoots the robber fatally. 
As he holds the dead officer, he curses whoever gave him these powers that dont work and screams for them to take them back. 

Characters: 
In Microverse: (Cinglet, Xennon, Unnamed cataloging construct, Captain of ship-BTS) 
Chicago: (Uni-Force, Captain Universe/ Ted, Leslie (wife), jumper, 2 armored robbers, several officers including Burns who is killed) 

Amazing Fantasy no.14/2 

Power Corrupted Part II 

Two Months Ago: The Microverse 

Cinglet and Xenon transport the chamber, which is holding a cryogenically specimen to there ship, just then the construct rushes in saying that this was a penal colony. 
Just then their ship is struck by an unknown force blast. 

Brooklyn, NY, Now 

A thief is running from the grocer, a man in a wheel chair tries to stop him but fails. 
The grocer asks if the man is all right, and tries to help him back in his wheelchair. 
The man says He can do it himself. The men talk about how useless the handicap man feels. 
Later at home, the crippled man is visited by the Uni-Force, which explains to him that something is causing its power to weaken. It needs a willing host to help it figure out what is causing it. The Uni-Force wants to bond with and replicate several super-heroes powers without imposing on them. The Uni-Force says he might be able to restore the crippled mans ability to walk and the man agrees to help him. 

Characters: 
In Microverse: (Cinglet, Xennon, Unnamed cataloging construct, Captain of ship) 
Brooklyn: (thief, grocer Luis, Lt. Gabriel Vargas cripple, Uni-Force) 

Captain Universe/Hulk no.1 

Secrets and Origins 

Out in the snowy woods, Bruce Banner steps on a bear trap and becomes the Hulk. The Uni-Force confronts the Hulk and wishes to speak with Banner. The Uni-Force bonds with Hulk and reverts him to Banner. 

The Uni-Force explains that its power has been compromised and it needs him to contact the leading researcher on the planet on the Uni-Force, Dr. Wiles, in Manhattan. Banner agrees to help with reluctance. 

In Manhattan, Banner meets with Dr. Wiles and asks about his research. Just then, David Garrett, Wiles partner comes in, but is called away by a phone call. Garrett is contacted by costumed agents aboard a sub who inform him that they have discovered what they have been looking for. After Banner (who is posing as Bruce Barnes) says that he once bonded with the Uni-Force, Dr. Wilkes explains his connection. 

Flashback- 22 years ago, Dr. Wiles was on a cross-country flight that was high jacked, he became Captain Universe and saved the day. Ever since he has devoted his life to unveiling the secrets of the uni-power. 

Just then, Garrett bursts in with a weapon and several robots. He fires at Banner and the Uni-Force is extracted from him. Wiles is upset. Banner becomes the Hulk and plummets into the robots. The mysterious agents monitor from their vessel. Using Delta Radiation the robots gain the upper hand against the Hulk. 

Meanwhile, Wiles disables the weapon releasing the Uni-Force. It makes a beeline for the Hulk and merges with him. Hulk makes quick work of the robots and heads back to the lab. There he discovers Wiles standing over a dead Garrett. Wiles said he didnt do it that he saw a light and when he recovered he was dead. 

With the police on the way, Hulk offers to take Wiles with him, but he refuses not wanting to live life as a fugitive. Hulk leaves. Wiles is arrested. 

Later, Banner contacts Matt Murdock at his Law Office. 

Characters: 
(Hulk/Bruce Banner, Uni-Force, Dr. Gilbert Wiles, Agent David Garrett, Mysterious agents, led by a female.)

* * *

Posted: 19 Dec 2005 03:28 pm 
By Somebody

Uni-Power, NOT Uni-Force

* * *

Posted: 19 Dec 2005 04:28 pm 
By Jason Doty

My bad.

Last edited by Jason Doty on 19 Dec 2005 06:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

* * *

Posted: 19 Dec 2005 06:01 pm 
By Jason Doty

Captain Universe/Daredevil no.1 

Sensory Overload 

*Note these events precede the Murdock Papers. 

Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson are defending Dr. Wiles who is standing trial for murder. Murdock senses a man in the room no one else can see. As the man leaves Murdock follows. Foggy calls for a recess. 

As Daredevil he catches the man on the roof, but is ambushed by three other agents who are all cloaked. As they gain an advantage Daredevil is merged with the Uni-Power and the villains flee. 

After regaining control of his new senses Daredevil returns home as the Uni-Power explains why he has merged with him. 

Murdock speaks with Foggy and the two try to figure out what is going on. That evening using his new senses Daredevil sniffs out the agents. 

Daredevil finds them and attacks before they go after him. Not accustomed to these new abilities the agents gain the upper hand and Daredevil asks the Uni-Power to leave him. The Uni-Power complies and Daredevil beats them down and finds out they are from A.I.M. He makes a call to the Black Widow for a favor. 

The next day SHIELD agent Khanata intervines at the trial and the D.A. drops the charges. After he asks Murdock about the Uni-Power, but he gives no answers. 

Later that evening, Daredevil visits Dr. Wiles lab. The Uni-Power apologizes to the Doctor, but the Wiles unfourtunatly has no answers that will help it and suggests finding out what A.I.M knows. 

Characters: 
(Uni-Power, Daredevil/ Matt Murdock, Foggy Nelson, Dr. Gilbert Wiles, Several A.I.M agents, SHIELD Agent Khanata, Black Widow/Natasha Romanova-BTS)

* * *

Posted: 19 Dec 2005 06:28 pm 
By Jason Doty

Captain Universe/X-23 no.1 

Double Threat 

One evening a team of SHIELD Agents including Scorpion and Agent Khanata are observing A.I.M agents dressed as construction workers performing tests. 

The A.I.M team are approached by homeless kids looking for a couple bucks. When the kids wont scram the A.I.M goons pull out weapons. Out of nowhere jumps X-23 who begins assaulting them. They call for backup. 
Cloaked A.I.M agents assault X-23 who is suddenly merged with the Uni-Power. While she engages them the others pull out weapons meant to capture the Uni-Power, but they are intercepted by Scorpion. The two girls fight off the attackers and almost get into it themselves, but cooler minds prevail and they finish defeating the A.I.M goons. 

The Uni-Power asks X-23 to help destroy the A.I.M info on it. She agrees and leaves. SHIELD radios Scorpion to not loose her. Scorpion offers to help but X-23 declines until Scorpion says she has the info on the base. 

Meanwhile, other SHIELD agents are getting the info from those that were turned over to them by Daredevil. 

As the woman travel on top a train the info is relayed to Scorpion. They jump off and make their way into the base, which id deserted except for one lone scientist that has hit the self destruct. Scorpion is ordered to get the info while X-23 knocks out the scientist. Before she can download it, X-23 destroys it. Thinking they have been compromised SHIELD orders Scorpion to take her into custody. Scorpion lies and says X-23 was destroyed in the explosion. 

That morning, the Uni-Power thanks X-23 and departs for someone smart enough to help it. 

Somewhere in space, Empress Lilandra orders Gladiator to bring the Uni-Power to them for evaluation. 

Characters: 
(A.I.M agents, SHIELD agents, Agent Khanata, Scorpion, X-23, Uni-Power, several homeless kids.)

* * *

Captain Universe/Invisible Woman no.1 

Empowered 

The Uni-Power has sought out Reed Richards to help it figure out its power fluctuations. While Mr. Fantastic runs tests and the Fantastic Four watch, Gladiator is on a course for Earth. 

Gladiator bursts into the Baxter Building explaining that the FF dont realize the danger and uses his heat vision to destroy the apparatus containing the Uni-Power. When the dust clears it has vanished. 

Gladiator uses his own device to find out where it went suggesting that it is hiding in one of the FF. As the Invisible Woman approaches him trying to explain the situation, he back hands her. She replies by belting him out the building. The Uni-Power has merged with her. 

Gladiator returns and tells the Invisible Woman to fight its influence, but as he tries to convince the rest of the FF, Thing and the Torch engage him. Not wanting to get innocents hurt, Sue tells Gladiator if he wants the Uni-Power to follow her and flies off. Gladiator follows. 
He catches her somewhere near the western deserts of the US. He throws her to the ground and punches her. She hits him with a rock knocking him clear into the Pacific. 

She follows him to the ocean floor and continues to beat him down. Knocking him out of the water she asks him to stop, so they can talk. Just then she is contacted by Reed who says there is a giant tsunami headed to the coast of California. 

Sue lets the Uni-Power merge with Gladiator so they can get their in time. Once to San Francisco the Uni-Power remerges with Sue and she creates an invisible force field over San Francisco. 

That evening the two have returned to the Baxter Building and Gladiator apologizes. Reed has run all the tests he can with no success. He suggests that the Uni-Force return with Gladiator, who has promised it will be treated as a guest. The two leave for space. 

In space Gladiator and the Uni-Power are hit with an energy beam from an asteroid and a tractor beam pulls the unconscious Gladiator and the Uni-Power inside. 

Characters: 
(Uni-Power, Mr. Fantastic, Human Torch, Thing, Invisible Woman, Gladiator)

* * *

Posted: 19 Dec 2005 08:40 pm 
By Jason Doty

Captain Universe/Silver Surfer no.1 

Instiable 

Gladiator is awoken by the Uni-Power, but he is trapped within a stasis field that is sapping his strength with other aliens. The Uni-Power tries to merge with him but cannot break through the field. 

From a monitoring area, aliens are monitoring the event. The leader asks what the orb is and his underlings tell him that it is the Uni-Power. The leader heads to the stasis area. 

There he explains that he is Krosakis and he feeds on energy forces of others. He suddenly grabs the Uni-Power and the two are merged. 

Somewhere in space, the Silver Surfer is struck when he feels a disturbance in the Power Cosmic and rushes to find out what. 

Aboard his ship the alien leader lives it up with some alien chicks, when he is contacted by his crew about an approaching threat. 

The Uni-Powered alien heads into space to greet the Silver Surfer. The Surfer explains he is wielding energies not his own and the two fight. 

During the battle the alien hits his own ship and it begins to head toward a planet. With the fight still going on, both the Surfer and the alien plummet through the same planets atmosphere. 

On the planets surface, the alien attempts to drain the Surfer who gives him all he wants, overloading him. The Uni-Power is freed and merges with the Surfer to save Gladiator and the damaged vessel. 

Once accomplished, the crew says they were forced to work for Krosakis. Gladiator tells them he will be turned over to the authorities and he and the Uni-Power can return on their course. The merged Surfer says that it will no longer be necessary for his energies have made it so the Uni-Power can no longer be tampered with. The merged Surfer takes his leave and heads to Earth. 

At dawn the Surfer enters the home of Gabriel Vargas and the Uni-Power is transferred to him. As Captain Universe he is about to embark on a great mission. He thanks the Surfer and they both leave. 

Characters: 
(Uni-Power, Gladiator, Krosakis, Silver Surfer, several aliens, Gabriel Vargas)

* * *

Posted: 19 Dec 2005 08:43 pm 
By Jason Doty

Chronological clues 

Banner hidding somewhere cold, Hulk semi-inteligent. 
Daredevil identity public knowledge, before Murdock Papers. 
X-23 living in homeless shelter. 
FF costumes look MK: "4"ish 

If you have any questions post them.

* * *

Posted: 19 Dec 2005 09:35 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Jason, any idea of how much time passes between these issues? How would they all plot out on a calendar (Day 1, Day 2, etc.)?
_________________
Paul B.

* * *

Posted: 19 Dec 2005 10:20 pm 
By Jason Doty

Updated: 

Twenty Two Years prior to CU/H no.1-Wiles become Captain Universe and saves highjacked plane 
CU/H no.1-f/b (9p2-10p3) 

Hulk vs. Captain Universe-f/b? (In desert crater) 
CU/H no.1 (4p3) 

X-23 in custody-F/B (being worked on) 
CU/X-23 no.1 (12p4) 

Two months prior Day 1: the Microverse scenes. 
AAF2 no.13/2 (1-2) 
AAF2 no.14/2 (1-2) 

Day 1, Uni-Power merges with the cop in Chicago. 
AAF2 no.13/2-f/b (3p5-4p1) 

Day 2, Cop tells wife then heads on patrol as Captain Universe. 
AAF2 no.13/2 (3-8) 

Day 3, Lt. Vargas tries to stop thief and then is confronted by the Uni-Power. 
AAF2 no.14/2 (3-8) 

Day 4, Uni-Power finds Hulk and asks Banner to find Dr. Wiles. 
CU/H no.1 (1-6) 

Unspecified amount of time for Banner to research Wiles, find him, contact him, and travel from whatever snowy forrest he's in to Manhatten. 

Day 5, Hulk fights AIM robots, Dr. Wiles arrested, Hulk flees. 
CU/H no.1 (7-21) 

Day 6, Dr. Wiles in jail, Banner contacts Law Offices of Murdock and Nelson. 
CU/H no.1 (22) 

Unspecified amount of time, depending how long Murdock prepares for defense of Wiles and it takes to go to trial. (weeks) 

Day 20 Trial of Wiles, DD fights AIM, merged with Uni-Power, Evening with Foggy, Uses abilities to hunt down AIM. Calls Black Widow. 
CU/DD no.1 (1-17) 

Day 21, Charges dropped by SHIELD intervention, has lunch with Foggy, DD visits lab. 
CU/DD no.1 (18-22) 

Day 22-23, AIM fights X-23 and Scorpion takes all night. 
CU/X-23 no.1 (1-20) 

Day 23, early morning Uni-Power leaves X-23 to find Reed Richards, Lilandra orders Gladiator to Earth. 
CU/X-23 no.1 (21-22) 

Unspecified amount of time for Gladiator to get to Earth and Reed Richards to run a battery of tests. 

Day 24, Gladiator fights FF, Uni-Power leaves with Gladiator that evening. 
CU/IW no.1 (1-21) 

Unspecified amount of time between how far out they were when attacked in space. 
CU/IW no.1 (22) 

Day 25, Gladiator in stasis, Uni-Power absorbed by alien. Surfer feels effect of absorbtion. 
CU/SS no.1 (1-7) 

Unspecified amount of time for Surfer to reach disturbance. 

Day 26, Surfer fights alien and frees prisoners. 
CU/SS no.1 (8-20) 
Unspecified amount of time for Surfer to return to earth. 

Day 27, Surfer transfers Uni-Power to Vargas. 
CU/SS no.1 (21-23)

Last edited by Jason Doty on 20 Dec 2005 11:18 am; edited 2 times in total

* * *

Posted: 20 Dec 2005 01:15 am 
By Kevin W.
Director

Well, you could've saved yourself the trouble of reviewing the "prologue stories" from Amazing Fantasy #13 and 14, (I did them here): 

http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2 ... php?t=1945 

However, multiple reviews for comics that need analysis are welcomed, (that way there's more than one person vouching for the contents of the comic, with both people saying "this is what happened in this issue"). 

And I was going to review the Captain Universe issues themselves, but I wouldn't have been able to get to do them till January, so I guess you've saved me the trouble. 

That said, let me throw in some commentary: 

Quote: 
>>>
Characters: 
(Hulk/Bruce Banner, Uni-Force, Dr. Gilbert Wiles, Agent David Garrett, Mysterious agents, led by a female.) 
<<<

Those mysterious agents are A.I.M. agents, and the female leading them, (though her face is kept hidden in the shadows) is Monica Rappaccini, from Scorpion II's storyline, (which seems to be popping up in more and more books). 

Quote: 
>>>
Captain Universe/Daredevil no.1 

Sensory Overload 

*Note these events precede the Murdock Papers. 
<<<

You left out in your synopsis the bit where at the end of the issue, Foggy, (who still thinks Matt's blindness has been cured by the Uni-power) gives Matt a photo of him and Milla Donovan together. Matt looks at it, but can't see it because his blindness has returned, but he says that Milla looks beautiful. Most touching scene in the whole miniseries. 

But anyway, my point is, as stated by the narrative caption which says "these events precede Murdock Papers" the clues in the story seem to line up with that narrative caption, as Matt and Milla are clearly seperated from each other at this point in time. (Whereas they get back together in the first issue of "Murdock Papers"). 

Foggy says, "It's that photo I took of you and Milla, that time we all had a picnic in the park." If you choose to count that photo as a flashback, then it must occur sometime during the "one year" gap in Daredevil. 

Quote: 
>>>
Somewhere in space, Empress Lilandra orders Gladiator to bring the Uni-Power to them for evaluation. 

Characters: 
(A.I.M agents, SHIELD agents, Agent Khanata, Scorpion, X-23, Uni-Power, several homeless kids.) 
<<<

So it appears Empress Lilandra needs listed in your "Character Appearances" section. 

Also, Agents Nagayoshi and Sareva, (Khanata's right hand helpers from AF2 #7-12) appear in this issue as well. 

Moving on, X-23's chronology is probably the biggest mystery to me, (I'm no expert on the X books). She was living at the mansion at one point, but here she's back out on the streets, defending homeless kids. And of course, she's on the other side of the country in New X-men #20. 

Quote: 
>>>
Chronological clues 

Banner hidding somewhere cold, Hulk semi-inteligent. 
<<<

As discussed over in another thread, this can probably safely go either before or after "House of M". 

Quote: 
>>>
This is probably left best to others but I'll give it a try. 

Day 1, Uni-Power merges with the cop in Chicago. 
Day 2, Cop heads on patrol as Captain Universe. 
<<< 


I was of the opinion in my review that this all happened on the same day, (the flashback with Ted gaining the Uni-Power shortly before Ted meets up with his wife to tell her he's now a superhero). But it's possible it happened the day prior: Ted says he's going out on patrol, and she says, "But I thought you were off today?" And he says he's not patroling as a cop, but as a superhero now. But why would he wait till the next day to tell his wife he's a superhero? *shrug* 

Overall, it seems you did a good job of breaking down the scenes which happen on different days. But what you need to do now is add page/panel ranges for each scene that occurs on a different day. For instance, the "Two Months Prior" bit involving the Microverse occurs in AF2 13, pgs. 1 and 2, and then next in AF2 14, pgs. 1 and 2. Do that for the whole miniseries, and then I think you'll have succeeded in finishing up this review for Paul's calender! 
_________________
Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

* * *

Posted: 20 Dec 2005 02:13 am 
By Col_Fury

Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
Moving on, X-23's chronology is probably the biggest mystery to me, (I'm no expert on the X books). She was living at the mansion at one point, but here she's back out on the streets, defending homeless kids. And of course, she's on the other side of the country in New X-men #20. 
<<<

I think this would fit in easily enough after the last time we saw her in whatever X-Book she was appearing in last, but before she went off to the other side of the country. Maybe she was checking in on homeless kids before she left? However, wasn't she living in shelters before she hooked up with the X-Men? Perhaps this means this occurs before she meets the X-Men? But going by other characters chronologies, it may be better if it's after all that. She's not wearing the Fang suit, so that doesn't really help one way or the other. 

Also, on pg12pn4 (of 6) of the X-23 issue, there's a FlashBack to X-23 being expiremented on. Some scientists are sharpening the claws on her right hand while she is awake. This would fit in-between panels of her mini, if it doesn't repeat anything... 

Kevin W. wrote: 
>>>
Also, Agents Nagayoshi and Sareva, (Khanata's right hand helpers from AF2 #7-12) appear in this issue as well. 
<<<

And that's the reason I bought these. 
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

* * *

Posted: 20 Dec 2005 03:17 am 
By JD

Jason Doty wrote: 
>>>
Unspecified amount of time, depending how long Murdock prepares for defense of Wiles and it takes to go to trial. 
<<<

At the end of the CU/DD issue, Wiles is angry against the Unipower because he's been left in jail for "weeks".

* * *

Posted: 20 Dec 2005 05:29 am 
By Col_Fury

If it helps... 

Amazing Fantasy 13/2 has green trees in New York in the 'now' segment. The police are wearing uniform jackets. 

Amazing Fantasy 14/2 also has green trees in New York, and some people are wearing jackets, but not everyone. Some people have short sleeves, and one idiot is wearing shorts. 

When Bruce makes it to New York, you can still see his breath, and people are wearing coats and jackets. So it's cold weather season in New York for the Hulk issue. Since Bruce was in a snowy forest, he may not have been as far away from New York as it looked.(we don't see any snow in Manhattan, though) No moons are visible. 

In the Daredevil issue, there's a full moon over New York, and it's raining the night of Dr. Wiles' trial. SHIELD agent Khanta is wearing a coat, we don't see any other civilians outside. 

In the X-23 issue, people are still wearing coats and jackets, and there's a full moon seen the night X-23 and Scorpion storm the compound. 

People are wearing jackets in the Invisible Woman issue, and there's green shrubs in New York.(no trees are seen, though. Just bushes) There's a full moon over New York that night. 

When the Silver Surfer makes it back to Earth, we don't see anyone outdoors, so who knows what season it is.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

* * *

Posted: 20 Dec 2005 10:35 am 
By Jason Doty

I'll re-edit the timeline with suggestions. 

Just a couple of questions 

Shouldn't we call this AAF2 for short, I keep seeing Alpha Flight vol.2 when I read the posts? 

I don't know how X-23's timeline works for the period, lining up with Daredevil, but one of the kids says, "He recognizes her from the shelter, not that she is currently staying there. I just made the assumption. Paul can you fill is in with a rough estimate of which x-titles line up with Daredevil so we can decide if it is before she goes to the mansion or after?

* * *

Posted: 20 Dec 2005 12:16 pm 
By jephyork
Director

X-23 came to live at the mansion in X #165, published about a year ago. Let's NOT suggest shuffling things around so this mini occurs before that point. There's no need for it -- we know that, between UX #461 and NX #20, she left the mansion for the streets again. That's a *current* reference to her living on the streets -- let's place this mini there. 

-Jeph!

* * *

Posted: 20 Dec 2005 01:32 pm 
By Jason Doty

Jeph!, I don't follow Daredevil and the series specifically references before what story arc it occurs, so the X-23 appearance would have to corrispond with that reference? 

Thats why I questioned how the two series line up.

* * *

Posted: 21 Dec 2005 09:53 am 
By jephyork
Director

The Daredevil story that's being referenced is the *current* arc -- so the series' claim to have occured before it doesn't force it very far into the past. 

That said, Jason, I was actually responding to Col-Fury's musings on whether the series should occur before X-23 met the X-Men back in UX #450. 

And, to answer Kevin's musings on whether or not this series occurs pre- or post-HOM ... if this series occurs while X-23 is out on the street, it's got to occur pre-HOM -- because Wolverine calls X-23 home in NX #20, in the immediate aftermath of HOM and M-Day. 

-Jeph!

* * *

Posted: 21 Dec 2005 01:54 pm 
By Col_Fury

I agree that this should be post-Uncanny 461, and I think there's a big chunk of time between the 'Murdock Papers' and it's previous story, so there's plenty of space to work with. As Jeph said, these Captain Universe issues are pre-HoM, and I think 'Murdock Papers' is still pre-HoM, too.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

* * *

Posted: 22 Dec 2005 07:13 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

In trying to reformat the analysis for the calendar, I've come up with the following. Can anyone fill in the "x"s, add relevant info, and correct any errors? Thanks. 


CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/HULK #1  FB 
One day, 22 years before CU/H 1 (1-x). While on a hijacked cross-country flight, Dr. Wiles becomes Captain Universe and saves the day. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/DAREDEVIL #1  FB 
One day. Matt and Milla get their picture taken by Foggy while picnicking in the park. Green trees in New York. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/X-23 #1  FB 
One day. X-23 is being experimented on. Scientists scrape her right claws while shes awake. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/HULK #1 (1-x) 
One day, 20 years after CU/H 1-FB and weeks before CU/DD 1 (18-22). In the snowy woods, Bruce Banner steps on a bear trap and becomes the Hulk, whos semi-intelligent. The Uni-Force confronts the Hulk and bonds with him, reverting him to Banner. The Uni-Force explains that its power has been compromised and it needs him to contact Dr. Wiles in Manhattan. Banner reluctantly agrees to help. Wiles partner, David Garrett, is contacted by costumed agents aboard a sub who inform him that they have discovered what they have been looking for. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/HULK 31 (x-xx) 
Probably the day after CU/H 1 (1-x). In Manhattan, Banner meets with Dr. Wiles, who explains his connection to the Uni-Force. Garrett bursts in with a weapon and several robots. He fires at Banner and the Uni-Force is extracted from him. Banner becomes the Hulk and battles the robots as the mysterious agents monitor from their vessel. Using Delta Radiation, the robots gain the upper hand against the Hulk. Wiles disables the weapon, releasing the Uni-Force, which merges with Hulk. Hulk defeats the robots and returns to the lab, where he discovers Wiles standing over a dead Garrett. Wiles says he found Garrett that way. With the police on the way, Hulk offers to take Wiles with him, but he refuses. Hulk leaves and Wiles is arrested. Later, Banner contacts Matt Murdock at his law office. Coat and jacket weather in New York, where its cold enough to see peoples breath. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/DAREDEVIL #1 (1-17) 
One day. Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson defend Dr. Wiles in his murder trial. Murdock senses a man in the room no one else can see. As the man leaves Murdock follows and Foggy calls for a recess. Daredevil catches the man on the roof but is ambushed by three cloaked agents. As they gain an advantage, Daredevil is merged with the Uni-Power and the villains flee. After gaining control of his new senses, Daredevil returns home as the Uni-Power explains why he has merged with him. Murdock and Foggy try to figure out whats going on. That evening, Daredevil uses his new senses to sniff out and attack the agents. The agents gain the upper hand and Daredevil asks the Uni-Power to leave him. The Uni-Power complies and Daredevil beats them down and finds out they are from AIM. He makes a call to the Black Widow for a favor. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/DAREDEVIL #1 (18-22) 
The day after CU/DD 1 (1-17). It is weeks after CU/H 1. Matt and Milla are clearly separated from each other at this point in time, so this segment must occur before DD2 76. SHIELD agent Khanata (who wears a coat) intervenes at the trial and the D.A. drops the charges. He asks Murdock about the Uni-Power, but Matt gives no answers. Later that evening, Daredevil visits Dr. Wiles lab. The Uni-Power apologizes to the doctor, but Wiles has no answers that will help it and suggests finding out what AIM knows. Full moon. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/X-23 #1 (1-20) 
One evening, shortly after CU/DD 1 (18-22). This segment must occur after UX 461. The new Scorpion, Agent Khanata, and other SHIELD agents observe AIM agents dressed as construction workers performing tests. When the AIM team pulls out weapons to intimidate some homeless kids who interrupt them, X-23 assaults the agents. When backup AIM agents attack X-23, she is merged with the Uni-Power. When X-23's adversaries pull out weapons meant to capture the Uni-Power, but they are intercepted by Scorpion. The two women defeat the AIM goons. The Uni-Power asks X-23 to help destroy the AIM info on it. She agrees and leaves. SHIELD radios Scorpion to not lose her. Scorpion offers to help and X-23 accepts. Other SHIELD agents get info from the AIM guys who were turned over to them by Daredevil and they relay the info to Scorpion. She and X-23 make their way into the base, which is deserted except for a lone scientist who has activated a self-destruct mechanism. Scorpion is ordered to get the info while X-23 knocks out the scientist. Before Scorpion can download the info, X-23 destroys it. Thinking they have been compromised, SHIELD orders Scorpion to take X-23 into custody. Scorpion lies and says X-23 was destroyed in the explosion. We see coats and jackets and a full moon. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/X-23 #1 (21-22) 
The morning after CU/X 1 (1-20). This segment must occur before NX 20. The Uni-Power thanks X-23 and departs for someone smart enough to help it. Somewhere in space, Lilandra orders Gladiator to bring the Uni-Power to them for evaluation. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/INVISIBLE WOMAN #1One day, shortly after CU/X-23 1 (21-22). The Uni-Power has sought out Reed Richards to help it figure out its power fluctuations. While Reed runs tests and the FF watch, Gladiator bursts into the Baxter Building explaining that the FF dont realize the danger and uses his heat vision to destroy the apparatus containing the Uni-Power. When the dust clears, Gladiators device shows that the Uni-Force is hiding in one of the FF. When Sue belts Gladiator out the building, its obvious that the Uni-Power has merged with her. Gladiator returns and tells Sue to fight its influence, but as he tries to convince the rest of the FF, Thing and the Torch engage him. Not wanting to get innocents hurt, Sue tells Gladiator to follow her and flies off. Gladiator catches her somewhere in the western U.S. She hits him with a rock and knocks him clear into the Pacific. She follows him to the ocean floor and continues to beat him down. Knocking him out of the water she asks him to stop so they can talk. Just then she is contacted by Reed who says there is a giant tsunami headed to the coast of California. Sue lets the Uni-Power merge with Gladiator so they can get there in time. The Uni-Power rejoins with Sue and she creates an invisible force field over San Francisco. That evening the two have returned to the Baxter Building and Gladiator apologizes. After unsuccessfully running all the tests he can, Reed suggests that the Uni-Force return with Gladiator. The two leave for space, where they are hit with an energy beam from an asteroid. A tractor beam pulls the unconscious Gladiator and the Uni-Power inside. Jackets and green shrubs in New York. Full moon. 
CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/SILVER SURFER #1 (1-x) 
The same day as CU/FF 1. Gladiator is awoken by the Uni-Power, but he is trapped with other aliens in a stasis field that is sapping his strength. The Uni-Power tries to merge with him but cannot break through the field. From a monitoring area, aliens monitor the event. The leader, Krosakis, enters the stasis area and explains that he feeds on energy forces of others. He grabs the Uni-Power and the two are merged. Somewhere in space, the Silver Surfer is struck when he feels a disturbance in the Power Cosmic and rushes to find the cause. Krosakis is contacted by his crew about an approaching threat and heads into space to greet the Surfer. The two fight. During the battle Krosakis hits his own ship and it begins to head toward a planet. The Surfer and Krosakis plummet through the planets atmosphere. On the planets surface, Krosakis attempts to drain the Surfer and is overloaded. The Uni-Power is freed and merges with the Surfer to save Gladiator and the damaged vessel. Gladiator tells the coerced crew that Krosakis will be turned over to the authorities and that he and the Uni-Power can return on their course. The merged Surfer says that it will no longer be necessary for his energies have made it so the Uni-Power can no longer be tampered with. The merged Surfer heads to Earth. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/SILVER SURFER #1 (x-xx) 
The day after CU/SS 1 (1-x). At dawn the Surfer enters the home of Gabriel Vargas and the Uni-Power is transferred to him. As Captain Universe, Vargas is about to embark on a great mission. He thanks the Surfer and they both leave.
_________________
Paul B.

Last edited by Paul Bourcier on 23 Dec 2005 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total

* * *

Posted: 23 Dec 2005 03:27 am 
By Col_Fury

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/DAREDEVIL #1  FB 
One day. Matt and Milla get their picture taken by Foggy while picnicking in the park. Green leaves on trees and sunny in the park. 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/HULK #1 
One day, weeks before CU/DD 1 (18-22). 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/DAREDEVIL #1 (1-17) 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/DAREDEVIL #1 (18-22) 
The day after CU/DD 1 (1-17). 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/X-23 #1 (1-20) 
One evening, shortly after CU/DD 1 (18-22). 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/X-23 #1 (21-22) 
The morning after CU/X 1 (1-20). 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/INVISIBLE WOMAN #1 
One day, shortly after CU/X-23 1 (21-22). 

It didn't occur to me before, but it makes sense that Bruce would head off to New York as soon as the Uni-Force asked for his help. I had figured that there was at least a day or so between leaving the woods and arriving in New York, but hey! He's the Hulk. He could have just jumped there. Good catch, Paul! 

My question is about the Silver Surfer issue: 

Quote:
>>>
The merged Surfer heads to Earth. At dawn the Surfer enters the home of Gabriel Vargas and the Uni-Power is transferred to him. As Captain Universe, Vargas is about to embark on a great mission. He thanks the Surfer and they both leave. 
<<<

Wouldn't the part that starts with "At dawn the Surfer..." be a seperate day, 'shortly after' the events of the first part of the Silver Surfer issue? If so, pg1-pg20 is all in space, and pg21-pg23 would be back on Earth at dawn. 

Everything else looks good to me! 
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

* * *

Posted: 23 Dec 2005 09:28 am 
By Jason Doty

Col Fury, 
The Uni-Power couldn't find Wiles on his own due to power loss, and Banner was completly worried about going to the city because of the Hulk, I doubt he agreed to get there as the Hulk. Plus he had to find the Wiles. I would seperate this at least by a day.

* * *

Posted: 23 Dec 2005 10:46 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I've edited the calendar entries based on Jason's and Col_Fury's comments. Inserting breaks in CU/H and CU/SS cause more "x"s to show up. Can someone assist with the remaining page/panel breaks?
_________________
Paul B.

* * *

Posted: 23 Dec 2005 10:57 pm 
By Jason Doty

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/HULK #1 (1-6) 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/HULK 31 (7-22) 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/SILVER SURFER #1 (1-20) 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/SILVER SURFER #1 (21-23)

* * *

Posted: 24 Dec 2005 02:46 am 
By Col_Fury

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/HULK #1  FB 
One day, 22 years before CU/H 1 (7-22). 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/HULK #1 (1-6) 
One day, weeks before CU/DD 1 (18-22). 

CAPTAIN UNIVERSE/HULK #1 (7-22) 
Probably the day after CU/H 1 (1-6), and 22 years after CU/H 1-FB. 

The FlashBack seen in CU/H 1 was in the (7-22) part of the book, so that should probably get switched around.
_________________
"Fury's gonna stay lost as long as he wants to stay lost. He kinda, from what I understand, wrote the book on it."

* * *

Posted: 24 Dec 2005 10:47 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks, guys. 
_________________
Paul B.

* * *

Posted: 27 Dec 2005 12:47 pm 
By jephyork
Director

I'm fairly sure the FB in CU/X-23 is *not* new material. I don't think they're "scraping" or polishing her claws -- this looks like the scene where they're about to cut them OUT of her, to coat with adamantium and re-insert them. 

I can try to find a matching panel from the X-23 series when I get home today, if you'd like -- but for now I wouldn't worry about it. 

-Jeph!

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Aug 19, 2007 8:08 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Somebody wrote:
>>>
2) Even given my line of thought, which Col_Fury agrees with, I shouldn't have put a BTS on PPTSS 158, since that includes the Uni-Power trying (and failing, because of outside factors) to properly bond with Spider-Man, and thus something not BTS. 
<<<

OP for Off-Panel, maybe? It's actually doing something in the issue, but not seen.Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

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Aug 19, 2007 8:24 pm 
By Somebody
Director

In that line of thought, other than the second AmFn backup & the Captain Universe issues (where it appears as a glowing ball, with a speaking part), has the Uni-Power ever itself been "on-panel"? 

Besides, it probably technically appears mixed in with the zapping from the machine that inadvertently half-blocks it.

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 10:38 pm 
By JLH

"Target Presents: Reading to the Rescue!" #4 also had the Uni-Power, ya know. I just did an analysis for it...

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Thread 14

Subject: Pharaoh Rama-Tut appearing in Cable

Aug 20, 2007 1:28 am 
By jephyork
Director

In Cable v2 #21, a mysterious assailant breaks into Blaquesmith's ship, and makes off with some files about Cable. In Cable v2 #32, he returns, blows up the ship, and kidnaps Blaquesmith. 

The readers were originally led to believe that Onslaught was responsible for the break-ins. But in Cable v2 #57, Blaquesmith's captor was revealed as the Pharaoh Rama-Tut, stuck in the 20th century -- and pumping Blaquesmith for time-travel tips so he could get back home. 

Right now Rama-Tut is credited for his on-panel appearance in C2 #57 -- but he's not credited for his BTS in C2 #21 or his voice-only appearance in C2 #32. Those two should be added, presumably immediately prior to C2 #57 in Rama-Tut's chronology. 

-Jeph!

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Thread 15

Subject: Vengeance/Mike Badalino appearances in Code of Honor

Aug 22, 2007 3:08 am 
By wolframbane

Officer Mike Badalino, the partner of Jeffrey Piper in Code of Honor, was the man who eventually became Vengeance. Here is the appropriate update to his timeline, including some BTS. 

VENGEANCE/MICHAEL BADILINO 
COH 1 (becomes partnered with Jeff) 
COH 1, M/TU 19-20-BTS (during Stegron's attack on New York) 
COH 1 (drunk at a bar, fights Brian Muldoon, aka Cowled Commander of CA 157-159) 
COH 1, DD 108-109-BTS (sees Daredevil battle Beetle) 
COH 1, WBN 32-BTS (sees Moon Knight battle Werewolf) 
COH 1, M/TU 23-BTS (sees Human Torch and Iceman battle Equinox) 
COH 1 (sees various criminals, sees Punisher) 
COH 2 (sees crooks caught by Spider-Man) 
COH 2-BTS (hurt in gunfight at Vicuna's drug lab and hospitalised) 
COH 3 (Mike and jeff celebrate heroes return after Secret Wars) 
COH 4, A 249 (Mike and Jeff during Inferno) 
SOV 16-FB 
{GR3 21} 

Note that Father Delgado from Cloak and Dagger is in COH 2, and many other minor background characters are also shown.

			*	*	*

Aug 22, 2007 11:21 pm 
By JLH

SOV 16-FB should be removed. It's a shot of Zarathos-controled Ghost Rider attacking Badilino's father, supposedly subconsciously drawn to him by his bloodline's connection to the medalion, which in turn causes him to kill his family, which then sets Michael on course to have a mad-on for GR in all forms. 

That event would've taken place well before Secret Wars, anyway. 

I should note, Code of Honor is only listed in the MCP for some characters. It likely needs a more thorough analysis done.

			*	*	*

Thread 16

Subject: Lost She-Hulk/Morbius plot

Aug 23, 2007 7:54 pm 
By lkseitz

So, I just recently finished the Essential Savage She-Hulk (S-H 1-25). I hadn't read these stories before and one thing caught my attention. 

In S-H 18, Morbius calls Jennifer "She-Hulk" Walters, the lawyer who recently helped him avoid the death penalty for his crimes, to tell her he discovered "something sinister that effects the She-Hulk," but then the line goes dead. After getting sidetracked fighting the issue's villain, Jen shows up at Morbius' office and discovers he was transferred to prison earlier in the day. She thinks that as his attorney, she should have been informed. She vows to get to the bottom of it after finishing off the issue's main plot. Morbius is never even mentioned in She-Hulk again by the final issue. I'm going to guess that David Anthony Kraft got enough notice the series was being canceled to plow through his other plots by #25, but there wasn't room for this one and thus it got left by the wayside. 

So looking at Morbius' entry in the MCP, he didn't appear again until a few years later in FF 266. I don't have that issue, but I've got FF 267 where Reed is using Morbius and a bunch of other famous Marvel scientists to help with Sue's problems with her pregnancy. I'm guessing that even though She-Hulk and Morbius were together for FF 266-268, this three-year-old dangling plotline by another writer wasn't touched on. Am I correct, or does someone know someplace else this was resolved? Thanks.

Lee K. Seitz 
Slowly adding insignificant characters to the MCP

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Aug 23, 2007 8:32 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

You are correct, the issue isn't brought up in FF 266. And sadly, I have no idea where or if this was wrapped up.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 17

Subject: Spider-Man fairy Tales#2 canon?

Aug 22, 2007 7:26 pm 
By Enda80

I see no reason why it could not be. If anyone says "Wow, what a great coincidence, an ancient spider god of Africa dressed up in red and blue", keep in mind that Amazing II#48 established that Anansi had a hand in his origin. 

Other than that, on the lighter side of things, didn't Daredevil have a biosteel (armor used by experimentation on spider silk) armor around Fall From Grace (DD#321 or so)? William Fieldhouse also wrote a novel featuring biosteel. 

http://mackbolan.com/display.php3?num=241 

http://www.spyder-25.com/review.asp?ID=429

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Aug 22, 2007 8:57 pm 
By Somebody
Director

I'll cut the snark for once (don't worry, Jeph will be along shortly :p) and merely point out the PXX 4 principle.

			*	*	*

Aug 24, 2007 2:41 am 
By SeanCurtin

On the other hand, What If #4. And What If, like the Fairy Tales minis, was an anthology, not an ongoing storyline like PXX.

			*	*	*

Aug 24, 2007 7:06 am 
By ADMINISTRATOR

But several people here are working on including all the What If stories, up to their points of divergence. The only difference is that, as far as I'm aware, What If #4 didn't diverge. 


watching: today

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Thread 18

Subject: ASM 543

Aug 22, 2007 8:26 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

As I thought it might, ASM's Back in Black arc doesn't want to leave room for the other two Spider-Books... or any guest appearances elsewhere. 

ASM 539 is the issue where Spider-Man puts the Black suit back on, so there can't be any (current)appearances of Spider-Man in the black suit before this. ASM 539 is directly continued through ASM 542, where he beats down the Kingpin. ASM 543 wants to pick up shortly after this, where the results of the blood transfusion are revealed... and then Pete moves May to a different, crowded, non-private room hospital.(and of course there's the obligatory 'to be concluded in One More Day' caption) 

The problem is that the other Spider-Books show May in the first hospital in a private room, so they can't happen after ASM 543. 

The best solution I can see is widening the gap between ASM 542 & ASM 543 to accomodate the other Spider-Books, New Avengers, Blade, World War Hulk, and where ever else he's appeared in the Black suit. And then ASM 543 leads into One More Day. So it took longer to figure out if the transfusion worked. So it took longer than it should for the police to investigate May's status at the hospital. It's the only spot I can see that makes any sense. 

Thoughts?

Last edited by Col_Fury on Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total. 

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

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Aug 22, 2007 9:03 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Based on what you say, looks like there's one and only one spot, however forced. 

Incidentally, on Spider-placements, I've been wondering about Spider-Man Family #4 (main story) since it came out. Peter & MJ can enjoy a private night out at the theatre, Spidey's in red'n'blue, they have a residence, and the Agents of Atlas' guest-starring role means it can't be pre-Civil War. And everything suggests that a story with Pete & MJ isn't going post-1MD. Any spot anyone can see?

			*	*	*

Aug 23, 2007 12:49 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

The bit that's throwing me about Family 4 is the Parker residence. 

The Agents of ATLAS mini has to start after the Stamford incident, thanks to the reference. The Agents of ATLAS mini has to conclude before Spider-Man Family 4. Spider-Man Family 4 shows Pete & MJ enjoying a night out, Pete's in the Red & Blues. So most likely before his unmasking, definitely before he becomes a fugitive and joins the resistance. 

That's a fairly tight window; Paul has the Stamford incident on Nov 13, and Pete's unmasking on Nov 24. I don't know off-hand how 'long' Agents of ATLAS 1-6 takes. Of course, those are temporal references, but it's still a pretty tight window. 

If we needed it to, I suppose Family 4 could occur after Pete's unmasking... there's more room to work with here. But it definitely has to be before Pete switches sides. 

Really, after Civil War 1, after Agents of ATLAS 6, hopefully before Civil War 2, definitely before Civil War 5 is the window we're looking at. Family 4 has to go in there somewhere. But the Parker residence doesn't want to do that, because the Parkers were living in Avengers Tower at the time. We'll have to chalk it up to art error or something. 

Unless, of course, post-OMD somehow works out.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 23, 2007 1:58 am 
By JLH

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
Unless, of course, post-OMD somehow works out.
<<<

Peter does remark, "Bite your tongue, as my Aunt used to say". Easily readable as being an indicator of Aunt May being dead, if that's the end result, or just a generic "she used to say that to me when I was a kid" thing. May's the type to always say that to him no matter his age, but, digression...

			*	*	*

Aug 23, 2007 10:55 am 
By Somebody
Director

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
The Agents of ATLAS mini has to start after the Stamford incident, thanks to the reference. The Agents of ATLAS mini has to conclude before Spider-Man Family 4. Spider-Man Family 4 shows Pete & MJ enjoying a night out, Pete's in the Red & Blues. So most likely before his unmasking, definitely before he becomes a fugitive and joins the resistance. 

That's a fairly tight window; Paul has the Stamford incident on Nov 13, and Pete's unmasking on Nov 24. I don't know off-hand how 'long' Agents of ATLAS 1-6 takes. Of course, those are temporal references, but it's still a pretty tight window.
<<<

Rough temporal breakdown of AoAtlas: 

Day -1: Jimmy Woo leads his doomed mission. 
Day 1: SHIELD bring in Gorilla Man to ask him about his old team. GM, M11 & Bob G turn up and nab JW. 
Day 2: The team nab Khanata, and he leads them to Venus. They fight robots, including a Clawbot. 
Day 3: They go to San Francisco to find out about JW's mission. M11 drags them to the Arctic Circle to find Namora, and they wake her up (may run into D4). D3 is before the New Avengers & Cap issues that Dugan appears in during CW, per the comm transcript at the back of AoAt3 where Dugan's still focused on the Agents. 
Day 4/5: They start looking into Atlas fronts. 

And this is where it starts breaking down. This phase lasts at least a week, per one narrative reference, and may go longer since one of the "busts" referred to on the text page is a mistake, and none of them had been as of the reference. After that's over, there's two more days where they have their big internal fight in the disused shipyard and take over Atlas.

			*	*	*

Aug 23, 2007 3:10 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

So it looks like Family 4 occurs after Pete's unmasking, and any lack of reference to that was unimportant to Family 4's story. I'm warming up to this placement, since Pete is in the Red & Blues, with a cloth mask.(yes, the Iron Spider costume could mimic other suits, but bleh) 

Looks like we've nailed this, with a tentative eye towards One More Day.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 23, 2007 10:35 pm 
By Carl Creel

Just a thought, what exactly do the so-called Marvel editors do all day?????

			*	*	*

Aug 24, 2007 1:23 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

To be fair, Spider-Man Family is run out of a separate office as the main Spider-Books. So it's no surprise to me that the stories in Family don't necessarily line up perfectly with the main books. In addition, Family is more of an anthology title anyway, telling stories that aren't always set in the present day. 

Also, Strazynski has a 'no rewriting' clause(or something similar, meaning editors can't alter his work) in his contract. It's too bad that he doesn't always leave room for the other books, but it's fun figuring out how it all fits together. So we can't really blame the editors on this one. 

Honestly, the main reason I'm looking forward to thrice-monthly Amazing is because by it's very nature, this problem will largely be a thing of the past. We'll still have guest appearances and such to figure out, but there won't be the Spider-Books tangle that we've had up until now. There will only be Amazing!

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 24, 2007 2:05 am 
By Mikhail

Well, JMS has claimed to have negotiated a "Touch one word and I walk!" deal, but didn't Marvel completely nix and revise his idea to have Peter (or was it Harry...?) as the father of Gwen Stacy's bastard children?

			*	*	*

Aug 24, 2007 8:30 am 
By Somebody
Director

They said "no", yes. They, however, didn't do any direct rewriting, JMS himself came up with the replacement.

			*	*	*

Aug 25, 2007 7:28 am 
By jephyork
Director

>>>
Just a thought, what exactly do the so-called Marvel editors do all day?????
<<<

Carl, we've been through this. Comments like this don't help the discussion forward at all. 

Since you asked, the Marvel editors spend all day making sure comic books get published. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the job "editor" has very little to do with making sure every chronological reference in a books lines up perfectly. Mainly they do things like coordinating with writers and artists to ensure that deadlines are met and the comics get to the printers on time. 

Now: please contribute something positive to discussions from now on, Carl. Other message boards may thrive on this kind of mindless Marvel-bashing, but we don't. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 19

Subject: DB picking up Mjolnir

Aug 25, 2007 10:10 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Where is this currently placed relative to the main CW series?

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Thread 20

Subject: Blade and Spider-Man

27 Aug 2007 09:38 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I'm working on calendar placements for the current BLADE series. In BLADE8 1, Blade knows Spider-Man's true identity. At first, I automatically placed it after Spidey reveals his identity in ASM 533. Subsequent temporal references in the BLADE8 series are causing me to pause and question this. Does anyone know if Blade knew Spidey's identity prior to the big public unmasking?

Paul B.

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27 Aug 2007 11:33 pm 
By JLH

They've only met three times. 

Marvel Team-Up vol 2 #7 and PP:SM vol 2 #7 & 8. No identity revealing there. 

Here's the thing. Marvel Team-Up vol 3 #whatever, Blade and Punisher meet for the second time in their lives, and NEITHER REMEMBERS EACH OTHER. "I've heard of you" or some crap. That says to me, from a character standpoint, Frank's taken so many blows to head over the years he's forgetful, and Blade may be slow in aging but is still a bit senile. 

But luckily, in PP:SM vol 2 #8, Blade bumped into Peter Parker. He didn't know who he was, according to his own admission. But right after Blade left the scene, Peter gave his name to the cops. Given how Pete saved Blade's life a few minutes prior (grabbing him to avoid a particle beam), it's possible Blade realized he's Spidey from the strength and agility he used, and upon overhearing his name, later did some digging and learned more about him.

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28 Aug 2007 07:11 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Hmm. I'd rather not go by inference if I can avoid it. I figured if we had on-panel confirmation of Blade's knowing Spidey's identity prior to BLADE3 1, we could reasonably place BLADE3 1 before the big reveal. 

Thanks for checking into this, JLH!

Paul B.

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Thread 21

Subject: Scott Camette (Thor 233)

28 Aug 2007 11:35 pm 
By TheDeuce

i'm reading dhall's x-men chronology read order and it has Thor v1 #233 in it. it has the name Scott Camette next to it, suggesting that it's in the read order because of him. the problem is, i can't find him anywhere in the issue! does anyone know who Scott Camette is? i might leave Thor 233 in the read order anyway because (so the MCP claims) Cyclops is one of the characters trapped in the force field bubbles created by Loki, though you can't really tell it's him, i think it's really just a guess. thanks!

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29 Aug 2007 06:25 am 
By Dhall

Cyclops has a one panel cameo, you can just tell that it's him, hence camette. It's really not enough of an app. to be a proper cameo, but yes Cyclops is in Thor #233, Don't blink!

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30 Aug 2007 10:56 am 
By TheDeuce

lol...i get it now. so that's not a person's first and last name, it "camette" as in a 'little' cameo. i was a little confused...thanks for clearing that up! 

			*	*	*

Thread 22

Subject: July call for analyses

02 Jul 2007 06:49 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

It's a new month, and that means an updated call for analyses. I took the liberty of extending the tours of duty for volunteers on certain titles. Please let me know if you'd like to sign up for an unassigned comic or story arc, or if I've made any errors in assignments or story status. 

Completed stories (as of 6/28/07) 
Agents of Atlas #1-6 (Eric) 
Annihilation: Conquest Prologue (JLH) 
Books of Doom #1-6 (Eric) 
Daughters of the Dragon #1-6 
Eternals v3 #1-7 (Eric) 
Franklin Richards: Son of a Genius Super Summer Spectacular 
Franklin Richards: World Be Warned 
Immortal Iron Fist #7 (Don) 
Moon Knight v5 #1-6 (Joe) 
Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #1-12 (Chris) 
Reading to the Rescue #4 (JLH) 
Sentinel v2 #1-5 (JD) 
Spider-Man Family #3 (JLH) 
Thor: Son of Asgard #7-12 (John) 
Underworld #1-5 (Aaron) 
Wisdom #1-6 (Paul O.) 
X-23: Target X #1-6 (Paul O.) 

Future stuff 
Annihilation: Conquest  Quasar #1-4 (JLH) 
Annihilation: Conquest  Star-Lord #1-4 (JLH) 
Annihilation: Conquest  Wraith #1-4 (JLH) 
Daredevil v2 #95-99 (Kevin) 
Daredevil v2 #101-? (Kevin) 
Daredevil: Battlin Jack Murdock #1-4 
Franklin Richards: Monster Mash 
Ghost Rider v5 #12-13 (JLH) 
Ghost Rider v5 #14-19 (JLH) 
Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears #1-6 (JLH) 
Immortal Iron Fist #8-? (Don) 
Immortal Iron Fist Annual #1 (Don) 
Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin #1-6 
Legion of Monsters: Morbius (JLH) 
Legion of Monsters: Satana (JLH) 
Mystic Arcanna: Black Knight 
Mystic Arcanna: Scarlet Witch 
Mystic Arcanna: Sister Grimm (JD) 
Nova v4 #4-7 (JLH) 
Punisher v7 #50-54 (Col_Fury) 
Punisher Max Annual #1 (Col_Fury) 
Runaways v2 #25-30 (JD) 
Shanna the She-Devil: Survival of the Fittest #1-4 [canonical?] 
Spider-Man Family #4 (JLH) 
Spider-Man/Red Sonja #1-5 
Terror, Inc. v2 #1-5 
White Tiger #1-6 (Kevin) 
Wolverine v3 #50-55 (Col_Fury) 
Wolverine v3 #56 (Col_Fury) 
Wolverine v3 #57-? (Col_Fury) 
Wolverine: Origins #16-20 (Col_Fury) 

Any help that people can provide would be greatly appreciated. As always, thanks to all who post on this forum!

Last edited by Paul Bourcier on 01 Aug 2007 06:59 am, edited 8 times in total. 

Paul B.

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02 Jul 2007 06:57 pm 
By JLH

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Annihilation: Conquest Prologue (JLH)
<<<

This is actually already "completed", such as it is. I mean, it's out. I'll be doing the analysis for it, and the others due, in the next week or so. Had a Power Rangers convention to attend...


>>>
Silver Surfer: Requiem #1-4 [canonical?] (JLH)
<<<

It's not canon. None of the interviews, press, or anything about it try to hide the fact, comparing it to "Spider-Man: Reign". And the story itself sure doesn't work, either.

			*	*	*

03 Jul 2007 07:04 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks, JLH. I adjusted the call accordingly.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

03 Jul 2007 11:30 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Hey, this is all sticky! 

Yeah, keep me on for Wolverine: Origins, and I don't see a problem with Wolverine: Regular or Punisher MAX. Barracuda comes out this week, so I'll get to that one fairly soon.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

04 Jul 2007 09:03 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Much obliged, Col.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

26 Jul 2007 02:26 am 
By JD

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Mystic Arcanna: Sister Grimm
<<<

As the resident Runaways expert, I'll sign up for this. I'm more or less following Mystic Arcana, but I know next to nothing of the histories of Scarlet Witch and Black Knight, so I probably won't have a clue about the other two oneshots (I assume you're doing the Magik one yourself).

			*	*	*

26 Jul 2007 07:15 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

>>>
(I assume you're doing the Magik one yourself).
<<<

I did pick up the Magik issue. Thanks, JD.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

01 Aug 2007 04:49 am 
By JLH

... Where's Blade?

			*	*	*

01 Aug 2007 07:05 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Oops. Check out the August call! 

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 23

Subject: Punisher MAX 50

08 Aug 2007 03:11 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Punisher #50 
W: Garth Ennis 
D: Howard Chaykin 

Appearances: 
Punisher(Frank Castle), Barracuda, Col. Yorkie Mitchell; Maria Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Christie Castle all in FB. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg3: one night 
Barracuda shoots Yorkie, after killing his wife and asking him about the Punisher. 
Pg4-pg8: most likely the next day 
The Punisher wakes up after having a dream of what it would have been like if his family hadnt been killed. 
Pg9pn1-FB 
THE 
Pg9pn2-FB 
PUNISHERS 
Pg9pn3-FB 
ORIGIN 
Pg9pn4(of 5)-pg13: same day as pg8 
Shaken by the dream, the Punisher goes out for some target practice. 
Pg14: some time later 
Barracuda enters a daycare center. 
Pg15-pg26: two weeks after pg 13 
A meeting between representatives of Russians, Triads, Jamaicans, Dominicans, and half a dozen other outfits occurs to see how the Italian rackets will be divided. The Punisher watches from the ceiling, waiting for everyone to show up so he can kill everyone, but Barracuda arrives and starts shooting up the place. He draws the Punisher out, detonates explosives hed set previously, and captures the Punisher. 
Pg27-pg29: next day 
Barracuda reveals that he set up last nights meeting to get the Punisher, and that he spoke with Yorkie recently. 
Pg30pn1-FB: just before pg 1 
Barracuda shoots Yorkie while his wife screams. 
Pg30pn2: now 
Barracuda continues. 
Pg30pn3(of 3)-FB: after pg30pn1, before pg1 
Barracuda shows Yorkie his gun. 
Pg31-pg34: now 
Barracuda tells the Punisher that Kathryn OBrien had a sister, and she had been in contact with Yorkie. He then shows Punisher what he got from the daycare center: a baby girl. 

References: 
This occurs after the Barracuda miniseries, where he was putting together revenge plans against the Punisher. 

This is the same Yorkie that's appeared in past issues. 

Its implied that the baby girl is the daughter of Punisher & Kathryn, most likely from their 'time together' in the arc she appeared in previous to the arc that ended in her death I guess well find out more in future issues. 

I have no idea for placements of the Flashbacks seen here. So Ill try to describe them in detail in the hopes that someone more familiar with the Punishers origin will have some ideas: 

Pg9pn1 
Christie is on the ground belly down, head up screaming. Shes been shot in the small of her back. 
Pg9pn2 
Maria is on the ground on her back, clutching her chest where shes been shot. Her eyes and mouth are open. 
Pg9pn3 
Frank is holding Frank Jr.s body in his lap. Frank Jr.s eyes are closed, mouth open, and Frank Sr. is holding the back of his head, keeping his brains from spilling out. 

And thats it. 

Ill do the other issues when the arc is completed, I just wanted to get this out for the origin sequence.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

08 Aug 2007 04:32 am 
By JLH

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
Pg9pn1
Christie is on the ground belly down, head up screaming. Shes been shot in the small of her back. 
Pg9pn2
Maria is on the ground on her back, clutching her chest where shes been shot. Her eyes and mouth are open. 
Pg9pn3
Frank is holding Frank Jr.s body in his lap. Frank Jr.s eyes are closed, mouth open, and Frank Sr. is holding the back of his head, keeping his brains from spilling out. 
<<<

As far as I can recall, none of the prior origin scenes have dealt with the specifics of what happened after the family was gunned down. It's usually just generically getting shot, then skipping to Frank catatonic with his family already dead and the cops usually there. 

This does seem to fit with the Ennis inspired retcon introduced in "Born" that Christie survived her injuries but died as a result of hospital neglect.

			*	*	*

Thread 24

Subject: Werewolf by Night, vol 2 #1-6

17 Jan 2007 11:05 pm 
By JLH

------------------------------------ 
WEREWOLF BY NIGHT VOL 2 #1 [February 1998] 
Writer: Paul Jenkins 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"Somewhere South Of Heaven" 

Cast: 
WEREWOLF/JACK RUSSELL (also in FB) 
ADOBE, FATHER VINCE 
ROXANNA 
LUMP III 
WOLF DEMON 
RUSSELL, LISSA (FB only) 


Summary: So, Jack Russell has a new status quo in life. He's got a job as a sewer rat, aka a sanitation engineer. Though he can still change into the Werewolf at will, three nights a month it happens without his control. So for those nights, he locks himself up in a room in the sewer, as a legless homeless man named Lump keeps him company through the grate above in the docks. This story involves Jack hanging out at a movie theater, watching a werewolf film, and getting kicked out by an usher who thinks he's homeless. On his way to the sewer cell, he passes by Father Adobe, a priest-like friend he tries to avoid, since he's always trying to get at what's bothering him. So, Jack locks himself up, changes into the Werewolf, the usual stuff. Did I mention now when he changes into the Werewolf, he gets a glimpse of Hell, and specifically the Wolf Demon, master of all werewolves or something similar. Oh, and constantly while as normal Jack, he gets flashes of red where he sees whomever he's talking to as a rotting corpse, or as himself as the wolf, ripping them apart. Anyway, once he's finished beating on the metal doors as the Werewolf for another night, he returns home. There, his girlfriend Roxanna drops by, not privy to his secrets, but wanting to know them. Later, Jack searches the internet for a cure to his lycanthropy, and has finally stumbled onto something. He calls up Father Adobe, who once studied the occult in seminary, and asks him about the Third Moon cult. They apparently predate Christ, and worship the Wolf Demon who controls the wolf aspect in humanity. The Third Moonists, in the Middle Ages, found a blade which they tried to use to control the Wolf Demon, only to find out it was merely one aspect of three, and thus made them indebited to him. In the 30s, silent film star Walter Clarke bought the blade, which remains in his estate. 


Flashbacks: 1) A shot of Jack in his younger days, riding a surfboar as his father and sister (Lissa) watch from the beach, along with two unnamed females. 2) Generic shot of Jack crouched in an alleyway after changing back from Werewolf, as two cops find him. 3) Werewolf taking a swipe at a superhero in a green costume with an orange mask, cape, boots, gloves, and shorts. 


Note: This series is under the "Strange Tales" line/banner from Marvel. 


Calendar notes: Third night of the full moon. The next morning is the "first of the month" according to Roxanna. 


------------------------------------ 
WEREWOLF BY NIGHT VOL 2 #2 [March 1998] 
Writer: Paul Jenkins 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"Life In The Fast Lane" 

Cast: 
WEREWOLF/JACK RUSSELL (also in FB) 
ADOBE, FATHER VINCE (FB only) 
ROXANNA (also in FB) 
WOLF DEMON 
SMEDLEY (first appearance. Isn't named until the recap in ST5 1/2) 

Other characters: 
Clark, Walter (silent movie star turned cultist. Dies) 
Johnson (guard at Clarke's gate) 
Third Moon cultists 


Summary: So, Jack hops into his convertible, downs some bourbon and drives upstate to the estate of Walter Clarke. He pretends to be a tourist from Texas named Billy Deegan, come to take pictures of the movie star's house. The guard at the gate sends him on his way for trespassing on private property. Getting confirmation that it's indeed Clarke's place, Jack departs, and after he leaves, Clarke gives the guard an order to kill all future trespassers. So, out in the woods, Jack forces himself to change into the Werewolf, sees the Wolf Demon (who calls out to him again as he passes through the Hell), and once changed, charges over to Clarke's place, just in time to interrupt a human sacrifice by the Third Moon cultists! The Werewolf smacks around the red-robed dopes, and Walter Clarke, considerably old and crippled, tries to escape, but breaks his neck on some stairs instead. After gaining the blade, Jack threatens to infect the old man, and manages to get some information out him before he dies, but of course it's info he already knew (that the "Wolfsblade" is only one of three parts). So, Jack returns home, and goes on a date with Roxanna to an amusement park Funfair. When she leaves to go pee, he's approached by a small, balding man (later named Smedley) who hurriedly explains that he represents certain parties who would find an allegiance with the Werewolf to be advantageous. He offers to show him where the remaining two parts of the blade are, leading him to a nearby roller coaster. Smedley has opened a portal to the Hell where the Wolf Demon resides within the tunnel ahead. If Jack can face his deepest fears and agonies, he'll gain the missing pieces. Jack agrees to go, since he visits Hell all the time anyway. 


Flashback: To before this issue, Jack and Father Adobe meet and play pool while discussing werewolves, which the priest doesn't believe in. Jack asks if he thinks being one makes a person inherently evil. 

Another FB has Jack informing Roxanna that he has to go away for a few days. She reacts badly to his refusing to trust her and tell her what he's hiding, not to mention it's her time of the month, something he clearly can't understand! 

Goofs: In the first issue, he was named "Walter Clark". The recap in this issue calls him "Clarke". Jack and the guard call him "Clarke". Then the Werewolf calls him "Clark". ARGH! 


------------------------------------ 
WEREWOLF BY NIGHT VOL 2 #3 [April 1998] 
Writer: Paul Jenkins 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"Welcome To The Funhouse" 

Cast: 
WEREWOLF/JACK RUSSELL (also in FB) 
SMEDLEY (BTS in FB only) 


Summary: Years in the future, a gunman tracks down the beast-man once known as Jack Russell, in his current home in the Florida Everglades. He explains to the man who wants him dead how he ended up looking like he does, and goes over the situation. He recalls the Funfair, Smedley offering him the two remaining pieces, and his ride on the roller coaster to Hell. But nothing happened when he entered the portal, just his return to the Funfair. Unfortunately, the ride caused Jack's face to change into a wolf-like shape, the sight of which caused Roxanna to keel over and die! Jack was on the run from then on, the police were after him, Father Adobe couldn't help him, he lived in the sewer and feasted on rats or homeless people. He gave into the wolf, and soon tracked down Smedley, killing him as well. Once the Mayor of New York cracked down on him and sent teams down to kill him, Jack headed for Florida, where he lives on gators, since they taste less like chicken than people and put up a better fight. Oh, the gunman reveals his daughter, Wendy, was killed by Jack not too long ago. Jack allows the man to kill him, promising he would have done things differently if he'd had the chance. After getting his brains blown out, the roller coaster reaches the end, and Jack exits relieved and horrified, having lived years of his worst nightmare in merely a ten minute ride. After vomiting and recalling Smedley's words to be true, he discovers the second piece of the blade is the "Magic Bullet" plate on the side of the cart! He takes it with him, and heads deeper into the tunnel, deeper into his Hell, now more aware of who he really is inside. 


Flashback: Jack boards the roller coaster ride. There's more, but all the characters following that are merely illusions from Hell or something similar, meaning only Jack appears actual. Smedley is BTS in it, since we don't see him when we're shown Jack getting on the roller coaster cart. 


------------------------------------ 
WEREWOLF BY NIGHT VOL 2 #4 [May 1998] 
Writer: Paul Jenkins 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"The End of The Line" 

Cast: 
WEREWOLF/JACK RUSSELL 
WOLF DEMON (dies) 
ROXANNA 
SMEDLEY 


Summary: Jack reaches the Hell controlled by the Wolf Demon. There's much fighting, lots of corpses lying around, lots of the color red, souls of all previous werewolves... Needless to say, Jack learns the only way to win is to embrace both his human and animal sides. He gives up, and gives in, and once in possession of the third piece, the blade shards come together upon his chest, giving the imprint of a howling wolf (looks a lot like the Thundercats logo, actually). In doing this, the Wolf Demon is destroyed, and he's given control of his wolf side at last. He departs the roller coaster cart, and spots Smedley, who quickly vanishes in the crowd. Roxanna scolds him for vanishing for an hour, which he explains by claiming he got a tattoo (we never see the wolf emblem on his chest ever, ever, ever again). 


Note: The Wolf Demon's "human child" form, as seen on the cover most prominently, looks like it was based off of Damien from the original "The Omen" movie. 


Goofs: The last page is clearly supposed to show the wolf emblem upon Jack's chest, but instead it's about 2/3rds black. 


------------------------------------ 
WEREWOLF BY NIGHT VOL 2 #5 [June 1998] 
Writer: Paul Jenkins 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"New Face Revealed" 

Cast: 
WEREWOLF/JACK RUSSELL (also in FB) 
LUMP III (also in FB) 
ROXANNA 
ADOBE, FATHER VINCE (next in ST5 2/2) 

Other characters: 
Fred (also in FB) 


Summary: Jack decides to take stock of his friends. He visits Fred, the now-crippled, former fellow sewer worker he once saved, and his dog, Loopy. Then he drops by Lump, the legless (what's with Jack and people who can't walk?) and homeless man who keeps him company through the grate during his lock-up nights. He also learns Lump's tragic backstory. Then he avoids Father Adobe, and goes to see Roxanna at her Sol Botanicals job, giving her some roses. 

Flashback: Jack and Fred, 3 years ago, when a sewer grill dropped on Fred, pinning him under in the water. Jack changed into the Werewolf and got him out, much to the confusion of some cops since the grills weigh about 600lbs each. 

There's also a FB showing Fred between that flashback and this issue, at his new job running a tree cutting company. 

Lump gets a FB showing his history, as the son of an acrobat and a high wire artist. He was born deformed, raised by the bearded lady since his mother died in childbirth. Hated by his father, raised by the animals and spent some time as a clown, until the circus closed and he ended up on the streets of New York. One day, years ago, he heard the Werewolf in his sewer cell, and was happy to keep him company as he did with the animals before, finding peace in it. 


Goofs: The recap page had been listing Roxanna's backstory as "she's a successful travel agent". With this issue, it's changed to "she runs Sol Botanicals, which sells vitamins". 

Loopy's dog collar lists his name as "Lupy". 


------------------------------------ 
WEREWOLF BY NIGHT VOL 2 #6 [July 1998] 
Writer: Paul Jenkins 
Artist: Leonardo Manco 
"Love is Colder Than Death, Part 1" 

Cast: 
WEREWOLF/JACK RUSSELL 
GHOST RIDER III/NOBLE KALE 
ROXANNA (next in ST5 1/2 and 2/2) 
SMEDLEY 
BROTHER STEVEN (also in FB) 
MICO, LEN (detective based on Leonardo Manco. Also in FB. Next in ST5 1/2 & 2/2) 
JONES, PHIL (detective based on Paul Jenkins. Also in FB. Next in ST5 1/2 & 2/2) 

Other characters: 
Fred 
Mariana (psychic, probably based on Leo's wife, Marianna Manco. Next appears in ST5 1/2, where she's named.) 
Sam (zombie bartender for the Underworld) 
Emil (Vampire. Member of the Children of the Night. next in ST5 1/2) 
Colin (Vampire. Member of the Children of the Night) 


Summary: There's a killer on the loose in New York. Detectives Len and Phil are on the case. It's apparently a serial killing, and despite their wishes, a psychic named Mariana is brought in to try to find out who's behind it. She gets visions of fangs and death. Elsewhere, Jack and Roxanna have a double date with Jack's wheelchair-bound friend Fred and a friend of Roxanna's. Fred's dog Loopy, and his general goofiness, doesn't go over well with the uptight woman. Jack gets a message in his fortune cookie from "your friend" wanting to meet with him. That night, he meets with Smedley, who explains the backstory about the serial killings, which started last July, random with a supernatural origin. Smedley's working for someone who wants the killer found before the police involvement turns on them and makes things go out of control. Jack is asked to go visit the Underworld, a secret nightclub he's been to before, where the only way to enter is to be dead, undead, or crazy. There, he's taunted by three vampires, members of a group called the Children of the Night. They end up fighting, until Ghost Rider, sitting at a booth in the corner, demands they knock it off. The vampires' master, a vamp calling himself Brother Steven, scolds his pals, but takes a taste of Jack's blood for later usage (planning to use Jack's misplaced morality against him). Meanwhile, Jack sits with Ghost Rider, they talk about the Wolf Demon's downfall and GR's promotion, but when Jack tries to ask for his help in finding the serial killer, he refuses, not wanting to show favoritism. But he does give him two bits of info: one, that by becoming Smedley's go-to guy, he's traded indebitedness from one demon for another. Two, the killer he's seeking is somewhere in the Underworld club right now. On the way out, Jack bumps into Brother Steven, who apologizes for his charges' behavior and shakes his hand. Jack heads for his sewer cell, and prepares for the first of his three nights as the Werewolf. This time, with the Wolf Demon dead, the change feels different. He feels the wolfpack rushing toward him, and he gives in, becoming one with them. But when he wakes up the next morning, after visions of a man being killed and the fangs of the serial killer appearing, he finds the door to the cell open, and the dead body of a homeless man lying next to him, with blood on his hands! 


Continuity notes: Ghost Rider is the Lord of Hell at this point. 

The book was canceled with this issue, and what would have been issues 7 and 8 were published in the fifth volume of "Strange Tales" alongside fellow canned ST book, Man-Thing. Unlike Man-Thing, which had its storyline concluded in a Spider-Man annual after Strange Tales got killed after 2 issues, this storyline never got a proper finale. It ended with Lump seemingly dead, Jack believing himself to be the killer, Len & Phil tracking down the real killer (Brother Steven), Mariana having some connection to Jack, and Jack revealing to Father Adobe that he's a werewolf. We never find out who Smedley was working for, either. 

There's a picture of the Bee Gees in the Underworld. Not surprisingly, this unlicensed usage never got Marvel into trouble. 



Calendar notes: This is the first full moon since Jack overcame the Wolf Demon. The serial killings started "Last July". 

------------------------------------ 


WEREWOLF/JACK RUSSELL 
** 
**WBN2 1-FB 
{M/SPT 2} 
... 
MK3 53 
**WBN2 5-FB 
MORBIUS 12 
SOV 13 
MORBIUS 13 
MORBIUS 14 
MORBIUS 15 
M/CP 143/2 
M/CP 144/3 
MSU 5 
MSU 7/3 
GR3 55 
**WBN2 5-FB 
MORBIUS 27 
MORBIUS 28 
MORBIUS 29 
MORBIUS 30 
S&L 3/2 
MK4 4-BTS 
**WBN2 1 
**WBN2 2-FB 
**WBN2 2 
**WBN2 3-FB 
**WBN2 3 
**WBN2 4 
**WBN2 5 
**WBN2 6 
ST5 1/2 
ST5 2/2 
... 


RUSSELL, LISSA 
**WBN2 1-FB 
{M/SPT 2} 
... 


GHOST RIDER III/NOBLE KALE 
... 
GR3 93 
[GR:F 94] 
**WBN2 6 
S-M 93 

SMEDLEY 
**WBN2 2 
**WBN2 3-FB-BTS 
**WBN2 4 
**WBN2 6 
ST5 1/2 

BROTHER STEPHEN (should be BROTHER STEVEN) 
**WBN2 6-FB 
**{WBN2 6} 
ST5 1/2 
**ST5 2/2 

**ROXANNA 
WBN2 1 
WBN2 2-FB 
WBN2 2 
WBN2 4 
WBN2 5 
WBN2 6 
ST5 1/2 
ST5 2/2 

**ADOBE, FATHER VINCE 
WBN2 1 
WBN2 2-FB 
WBN2 5 
ST5 2/2 

**LUMP III 
WBN2 5-FB 
{WBN2 1} 
WBN2 5 
ST5 2/2-BTS 

**WOLF DEMON 
WBN2 1 
WBN2 2 
WBN2 4 

**MICO, LEN 
WBN2 6-FB 
{WBN2 6} 
ST5 1/2 
ST5 2/2 

**JONES, PHIL 
WBN2 6-FB 
{WBN2 6} 
ST5 1/2 
ST5 2/2

Last edited by JLH on 05 Aug 2007 01:13 am, edited 1 time in total. 

			*	*	*

18 Jan 2007 09:56 am 
By Enda80

3) Werewolf taking a swipe at a superhero in a green costume with an orange mask, cape, boots, gloves, and shorts. 

Captain Ultra?

			*	*	*

18 Jan 2007 05:36 pm 
By JLH

Captain Ultra has a multi-colored costume. This guy has two tones. Plus his hair is visible.

			*	*	*

04 Aug 2007 06:58 pm 
By Enda809

Could the guy in the green and orange costume be Powderkeg? 

Also, in the Marvel Tarot, on page 19, the Wolf Demon is named as Varcolac.

			*	*	*

04 Aug 2007 07:48 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Okay, this might just be because this is a some-months-old thread which Enda has mysteriously bumped, and so might have been before that whole thing about the GR listings, but I'm noticing that GR's being listed as Dan Ketch when it's during the period where Dan & Noble Kane/GR were separated. Is it just that?

			*	*	*

05 Aug 2007 01:12 am 
By JLH

This is dated back in January, and I started pushing for reform of GRIII's listings in February. So, yes, that would be it. But now that I've been reminded, I can change it.

			*	*	*

07 Aug 2007 09:36 pm 
By Enda80

Wolf Demon note 
Silver Surfer Annual#2/7, in its retelling of Chthon's history, shows him creating or mutating a lupine figure. The Marvel Tarot indicates that Chthon had a hand in the creation of the Wolf Demon and other lupine supernatural beings. Therefore, this may indicate a previous appearance of the Wolf Demon.

			*	*	*

08 Aug 2007 12:06 am 
By JLH

I think at this point we need to congradulate Enda on getting his contributions to the Marvel Tarot special published.

			*	*	*

08 Aug 2007 05:37 am 
By Enda80

No, this was not my idea. In fact, none of my ideas appear to have made it into the Tarot (though much made it into the Magic Handbook). However, the upcoming Zombies Handbook may include some of my ideas and may clarify further information about that scene in SS@2/7.

			*	*	*

Thread 25

Subject: Ghost Rider/Captain America: FEAR

13 Aug 2007 02:08 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Guess what I found at ChicagoCon for $1.00? 

Ghost Rider/Captain America: FEAR 
W: Howard Mackie 
D: Lee Weeks 
Published: October, 1992 

Appearances: 
Captain America(Steve Rogers), Ghost Rider(Noble Kale), Dan Ketch, Scarecrow(Ebenezer Laughton), Stacey Dolan, Capt. Thomas Gerard Dolan, Commissioner Robert H. Stubbs, Stern, the Mayor-BTS. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1: credits 
Pg2-pg3: a hospital 
The Scarecrow is in a hospital undergoing surgery to give him fear powers. He wakes up and kills all the doctors. 
Pg4-pg11pn3: one week later 
The Ghost Rider stops some drugged up thugs from killing their hostages in a grocery store. 
Pg11pn4(of6)-pg48: next day 
Danny Ketch complains to Stacey Dolan that the newspapers are still labeling the Ghost Rider as a villain, instead of the hero that he is. Stacey tells Dan that hes scaring her and leaves, so Dan goes out riding on his motorcycle. Elsewhere, the police finally find the dead doctors from a week earlier. Later, Capt. Dolan is told to set aside his Ghost Rider crusade for the moment and to look for the Scarecrow. That night, Scarecrow kills some teenagers and is approached by the police, one of which is Stacey. Scarecrow kills her partner and kidnaps her, mistaking her for his mother. Sensing the murder, Dans gas cap glows and he turns into Ghost Rider. Capt. Dolan is at the murder scene worrying about his daughter when Captain America arrives. Ghost Rider drives by so he teams up with him and they go to the Scarecrows house. They defeat Scarecrow and free Stacey. Afterwards, the Scarecrow is approached by Stern, the man who arranged for Scarecrow to get fear powers. 

References: 
This was published the same month that Captain America 408 & Ghost Rider 30 was. 

Stacey mentions the events of Ghost Rider 25, placing this at least after that. 

Captain America mentions the events of Captain America 280, the last time he encountered the Scarecrow. 

Dan is still sleeping here(not actually in the issue, but he mentions that he's still able to sleep, just not tonight), placing this before Ghost Rider 33 where he discovers he can't any more, and therefore before Ghost Rider 32, where it 'happens.' 

Placement suggestions: 


CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN GRANT ROGERS 
... 
CA 406 
CA 407 
CA 408 
*GR/CA: F 
N 26 
A 350/2 
IW 1 
 

GHOST RIDER III/NOBLE KALE 
 
GR3 29 
*GR/CA: F 
MORBIUS 1 
SOV 2 
GR3 30 
 

KETCH, DANIEL "DANNY" 
 

GR3 29 
*GR/CA: F 
MORBIUS 1-BTS 
SOV 2-BTS 
GR3 30 
 

SCARECROW/EBENEZER LAUGHTON 
 
GR3 7 
*GR/CA: F 
GR3 38 
 

STERN 
GR3 25 
GR3 28 
*GR/CA: F 
GR3 32 
GR3 33 
GR3 37 

DOLAN, CAPT. THOMAS GERARD 
 
GR3 25 
GR3 28 
*GR/CA: F 
GR3 30 
GR3 38 
GR3 44 
 

DOLAN, STACY 
 
GR3 25 
GR3 28 
*GR/CA: F 
GR3 30 
GR3 38 
GR3 44 

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

13 Aug 2007 03:23 am 
By JLH

Uhh... it can't go where you placed it. Dan was trapped in the null-void stasis from GR3 25 until GR3 32, thanks to getting his throat ripped out by Blackout.

			*	*	*

13 Aug 2007 02:12 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

That's right... OK. So this has to happen after issue 32, thanks to the mention of issue 25, and it has to happen before issue 33, becasue it's a continuous story through 38, and has to happen before issue 37 for the Scarecrow. So sometime between issues 32 & 33, then. 

Thanks, JLH! 

GHOST RIDER III/NOBLE KALE 
... 
GR3 32 
DRSTR3 50 
MSU 1 
DHAWK 22 
DHOLD 5 
*GR/CA: F 
M/CP 119/3 
M/CP 120/3 
M/CP 121/3 
M/CP 122/3 
GR3 33 
... 

KETCH, DANIEL "DANNY" 
... 
GR3 32 
DRSTR3 50-BTS 
MSU 1-BTS 
DHAWK 22-BTS 
DHOLD 5-BTS 
*GR/CA: F 
M/CP 119/3-BTS 
M/CP 120/3-BTS 
M/CP 121/3-BTS 
M/CP 122/3-BTS 
GR3 33 
... 

STERN 
GR3 25 
GR3 28 
GR3 32 
*GR/CA: F 
GR3 33 
GR3 37 

DOLAN, CAPT. THOMAS GERARD 
 
GR3 25 
GR3 28 
GR3 30 
*GR/CA: F 
GR3 38 
GR3 44 
 

DOLAN, STACY 
 
GR3 25 
GR3 28 
GR3 30 
*GR/CA: F 
GR3 38 
GR3 44 

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

13 Aug 2007 11:52 pm 
By JLH

Looks good to me! 

			*	*	*

Thread 26

Subject: Legion of Night 1-2

14 Aug 2007 01:30 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Holy crap, its the Gap!  

Legion of Night #1 
W: Steve Gerber 
D: Wilce Portacio 
Published: October, 1991 

Appearances: 
Jennifer Kale, Bernard Drabble, Dr. Katherine Reynolds, Martin Gold, Shannon, Charles Blackwater, Omen, Reeve Caulder, Ariann, Hildreth, Natasha Haynesworth, Pandro Horovitz, Andrew Graynold, Det. Daniel Boyd, Dr. Chan Liuchow, FIN FANG FOOM. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg7 
Dr. Katherine Reynolds gets a vision and is medicated at the hospital. Elsewhere, Jennifer Kale gets a vision. Elswhere, Martin Gold tries to contact Charles Blackwater for an interview. Elsewhere, Charles Blackwater is thrown out of a window. 
Pg8-pg14-FB 
Reeve Caulder hires attourney Charles Blackwater to defend him in court. His religion has been accused of kidnapping, extortion, fraud, drug trafficking, and child pornography. Later he goes to visit Caulders religious campus and meets his assistant Hildreth, and interviews some people; Natasha Haynesworth, Pandro Horovitz, and Andrew Graynold. Later, Blackwater gets all of the charges dropped in court. 
Pg15pn1-FB 
Blackwater records his regrets. 
Pg15pn2(of 6)-pg20pn4(of 5)-FB-FB 
Blackwater researches Caulders religion and finds the Aten Decan book and meets Ariann and her grandfather. After reading it, he finds that the child pornography accusation is true. 
Pg20pn5-pg23-FB 
Blackwater continues recording when Caulder arrives at his office and throws him out the window. 
Pg24-pg48 
Blackwater lands and turns into Omen. Elsewhere, Jennifer Kale talks to Omen. Elsewhere, Martin Gold finds out that Blackwater is dead. Elsewhere, Caulders followers begin a ritual. Elsewhere, Dr. Chan Liuchow visits FIN FANG FOOMs sleeping place just as he wakes up; Caulders ritual has awoken him. Afterwards, Caulder regerts waking FIN FANG FOOm, as he will destroy the world. 

References: 
Fin Fang Foom has been sleeping for THIRTY YEARS. That could work, as long as this happens before Iron Man 261. 

Legion of Night #2 
W: Steve Gerber 
D: Wilce Portacio 
Published: October, 1991 

Appearances: 
Jennifer Kale, Dr. Katherine Reynolds, Martin Gold, Charles Blackwater, Omen, Reeve Caulder, Ariann, Hildreth, Dr. Chan Liuchow, FIN FANG FOOM. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg48 
Blackwater makes his way back to the book store, and he, Ariann, and her grandfather go back to his place. Omen brings Kale, Reynolds, & Liuchow to his place. Meanwhile, Caulder gives up his cause and Hildreth goes to mate with FIN FANG FOOM. The heroes enter dreamland, kill Hildreths & FIN FANG FOOMs baby and defeat FIN FANG FOOM. 

References: 
Charles Blackwater is not Omen, hes bonded to Omen, making them two different characters. 

Jennifer dreams about the Man-Thing, but he doesnt actually appear here. 

Some placement suggestions: 

KALE, JENNIFER 
 
DRSTR2 41 
M-T2 10 
M-T2 11 
M/CP 29/4 
*LoN 1 
*LoN 2 
Q 50 
OE 2 
GR3 77 
 

REYNOLDS, DR. KATHERINE 
 
M/SPT 24 
GR2 17 
*LoN 1 
*LoN 2 

GOLD, MARTIN 
VT 6 
DL 10/3 
DL 11/4 
M/PRV 12 
M/PRV 16/3 
TOD 67 
*LoN 1 
*LoN 2 

BLACKWATER, CHARLES 
See also OMEN 
LoN 1 (8-14)-FB 
LoN 1 (15:2-20:4)-FB-FB 
LoN 1 (15:1)-FB 
LoN 1 (20:5-23)-FB 
LoN 1 
LoN 2 

OMEN 
LoN 1 
LoN 2 

CHAN, DR. LIUCHOW 
[ST 89] 
*LoN 1 
*LoN 2 

FIN FANG FOOM 
IM 274-FB 
IM 272-FB 
{ST 89} 
{AT 23} 
AT 24 
*LoN 1 
*LoN 2 
IM 261 
IM 262 

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

14 Aug 2007 01:51 am 
By JLH

Didn't some of these guys pop up in Midnight Sons Unlimited #9/2?

			*	*	*

14 Aug 2007 04:20 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

You're right! 

It also gives a last name for Ariann, and a name for her (apparently) great grand father. And a name for Charle's girlfriend. Neat! 

BLACKWATER, CHARLES 
See also OMEN 
LoN 1 (8-14)-FB 
LoN 1 (15:2-20:4)-FB-FB 
LoN 1 (15:1)-FB 
LoN 1 (20:5-23)-FB 
LoN 1 
LoN 2 
*MSU 9/2 

OMEN 
LoN 1 
LoN 2 
*MSU 9/2 

LAMB, ALLISON 
LoN 1 
MSU 9/2 

WIGHT, CASPAR 
LoN 1 
LoN 2 
MSU 9/2 

WIGHT, ARIANN 
LoN 1 
LoN 2 
MSU 9/2

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 27

Subject: Target Presents: Reading to the Rescue! #4

13 Aug 2007 01:03 am 
By JLH

Finally, the calendar gets one of its longest awaited blanks filled! 

------------------------------------ 
TARGET PRESENTS: READING TO THE RESCUE! #4 [2006] 
"The Power of Reading" 
Writer: Todd Dezago 
Penciler: Ron Lim 
Inker: Mostafa Moussa 

Cast: 
PROFESSOR ZENITH/RUSS CHIANG (also in FB) 
SERENITY/SHARON DONAVAN (also in FB) 
FRANTIC/AUSTIN BURNS (also in FB) 
ANNIHILUS 
UNI-POWER (splits into three and forms with the three kids listed at the top) 
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS 
HUMAN TORCH II/JOHNNY STORM 
THING/BENJAMIN J. GRIMM 
INVISIBLE WOMAN/SUE STORM RICHARDS 
HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER 
SHE-HULK/JENNIFER WALTERS 

Other characters: 
Beth (Target Reading Buddy; FB only) 


Summary: A trio of 10 year olds are given the product placement task of coming up with their own superheroes and comic books. Annihilus chases the Uni-Power from the Negative Zone, and blasts it with his Cosmic Rod in an effort to steal its power. Instead, it splits into three smaller parts and falls to Earth... and of course, like everything in the Marvel Universe, it falls right to New York City. So, Annihilus gives chase, finding the first section of the Uni-Power has turned one of the three kids, the white one named Austin, into Captain Universe. Well, since the power split, he doesn't become Captain Universe exactly, but instead his intended comic character, Frantic! Now an adult with huge muscles, a cape, and a big F on his chest (with the blue and white CU designs on his otherwise), Frantic is attacked by Annihilus, who destroys the boy's bedroom. Luckily, Spider-Man is swinging by and catches Frantic, helping him avoid getting blasted a second time. Though the blast avoids him, it hits a nearby water tank, which the super strong hero tries to stop, only to have collapse on him harder. His classmate, the smart Asian one named Russ, also with Uni-Power and calling himself Professor Zenith, zooms in to help out, using his intelligence and energy powers to stop the tank from falling. But Annihilus attacks again, leaving Zenith lost in thought while trying to think up a way to stop him, and becoming a big target. Well, the Fantastic Four have been alerted to their old foe's presence, and Reed gets Zenith to safety while Invisible Woman throws up a shield. 

Elsewhere, the black and female one, Sharon, has the last part of the Uni-Power, turning her to Serenity (no Whedon or feminine health jokes, please). She's floating along, being all advanced-agey and floaty, when she notices She-Hulk getting hit by the Hulk while trying to stop her cousin from his latest mindless rampage. When Shulkie is tossed into the air, Serenity catches her. She then offers to help, and lucks out, since her power happens to be useful in this situation. Serenity flies down to the Hulk, touches him and brings him mental peace. He reverts to puny Bruce Banner in an instant. The fight against Annihilus spills over to the scene just then, with the Fantastic Four trying to keep Annihilus away from Frantic and Prof. Zenith. She-Hulk suggests Serenity use her power to bring inner peace to Annihilus. Spidey, Thing, and Torch distract the big green bug while Shulkie tosses Serenity at him. Touching Annihilus directly on the forehead, head on, he stops wanting the Uni-Power and falls asleep. Thing cradles him in his arms, as he drools like a baby and declares softly his happiness. Soon, Mr Fantastic has Annihilus safely chained up, and uses a dimensional diverter to send him back to the Negative Zone, keeping him from returning anytime soon. The Uni-Power leaves the three kids, reverting them to their normal selves and forming back into one glowing neutron ball, and takes off. The kids are thrilled at their experience and adventure, and are given a lift home by the Fanstic Four in their Fanasticar. Just to remind you of this story's purpose, they bring up the comics they're making for their Target Reading blah blah. Did I mention Bruce mysteriously slipped away as soon as he saw the fight with Annihilus going on? Damn fugitive. And I sure hope the FF help Austin repair his room... 


Flashback: Russ, Sharon, and Austin in class, earlier that day, as Beth, their class' Target Reading Buddy, challenges them (and their classmates) to create their own comic characters. 


Continuity notes: This was published probably in February 2006. It's the last of these giveaways, since Target's changed their literacy campagin focus to something else since this came out. 

Austin has posters of Captain America and Luke Cage (with generic cap and leather jacket on) on his wall. Sharon has a framed picture of a young girl with what seems to be light bursting out of her feet as a power. 

She-Hulk has her white with purple sided one-piece costume on. Sharon calls her "the Avenger She-Hulk", and is aware that Hulk is her cousin. Hulk calls Shulkie "Jen-Fer". Hulk is green and stupid here, Hulk smash and all. 

Funny to realize how it's entirely possible this humiliating experience could be what led Annihilus to snap and lead the Annihilation Wave to our dimension. I'm sure he was gonna do that anyway, but the timing does make this story all the more amusing in hindsight. 


Goofs: Not a goof, but Serenity looks an awful lot like Captain Mar... err, Photon. 

The Fantastic Four are wearing their Marvel Adventures costumes. Even Sue's hairstyle matches. How da hell to explain this? 

Despite being in their pajamas when they get the Uni-Power, the kids are back in their school clothes when reverting to normal. 


Calendar notes: It's at "night", yet the sky sure looks bright enough. Spidey claims it's "been a pretty quiet night" and is about to stop his patrol when he bumps into Frantic. 

Pages 1-2: Night. In their respective rooms in apartments in New York City, Russ, Austin, and Sharon draw up their own superheroes in comic form. 
Page 1 panel 2: FB. Russ, Austin, and Sharon at school that day, getting their "challenge" from Target Reading Buddy Beth. 
Page 3-4: Annihilus chases the Uni-Power through space on the edge of the Negative Zone. He fires on it, and it breaks into three over Earth, landing on each of the sleeping kids. 
Page 3 panels 3 & 4: FB. Generic young guy getting turned into Captain Universe by the Uni-Power. 
Pages 5-6: Austin is turned into Frantic. Annihilus attacks, Spider-Man is about to call it a night when Frantic is blasted into him. Annihilus blasts water tank by accident, they try to save it from collapsing on them. 
Page 7, panels 1-3: Russ turns into Professor Zenith, and takes flight, before noticing the water tank incident nearby. 
Page 7, panel 4 (dialogue caption on panel 5): In his lab, Mr Fantastic has Annihilus on his viewscreen. He tells Johnny to round up Ben & Sue. 
Page 7, panel 5 through page 8: Prof. Zenith throws an energy net around the water tank, helping Frantic and Spidey. 
Pages 9-12: Sharon as Serenity floats along, spots She-Hulk trying to calm her cousin, saves her, then uses her power to bring peace to Hulk, reverting him to Banner. The Annihilus battle spills over to their location, She-Hulk comes up with a plan, has the guys distract the villain while she tosses Serenity over him. Upon being touched by Serenity, Annihilus stops wanting the Uni-Power and falls into a blissful coma. 
Page 13: A short time later, Annihilus is chained up and sent back to the Negative Zone by Reed. The Uni-Power leaves the three kids and returns to one form, before departing. The kids are excited about their first-hand adventure, and are given a lift home by the Fantastic Four. 

------------------------------------

			*	*	*

14 Aug 2007 09:58 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks, JLH. I'm getting to this one soon...

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 28

Subject: Immortal Iron Fist #1-6

24 Jul 2007 06:32 pm 
By DonCampbell

Analysis of Immortal Iron Fist #1-6 

Before I begin, there are a few things I should mention. First, Ive included my analysis of the Iron Fist story from CIVIL WAR: CROSSING SIDES because Ed Brubaker wrote it as a lead-in to his monthly IRON FIST series. 

Second, Im listing IMMORTAL IRON FIST by the code IF5 instead of IIF. If I recall correctly, IF is the first ongoing series from 1975-1977, IF2 is the first (2-issue) LS from 1996, IF3 is the second (3-issue) LS from 1998, and IF4 is the second ongoing series from 2004. 

Third, Im sorry to say that I am REALLY vague about how the appearances of Danny Rand and Luke Cage in these issues fit in with their appearances in CIVIL WAR. While its certain that the storyline takes place after it becomes illegal for super-heroes to be unregistered, the fact that Danny is surprised when Luke shows him (in IF5 #2) that Misty is on the pro-registration side indicates that it must be early during the CW (since otherwise Luke would have plenty of opportunities in which to tell Daredevil during the CW). Also, Cages appearances in IF5 certainly take place before he appears in Heroes For Hire (vol. 2) #2-3 which itself takes place soon after Civil War #4. By the way, is anybody analyzing the current Heroes Fire Hire series? Please note that I am NOT volunteering. 

Fourth, this storyline suffers from a scarcity of temporal references. For one thing, no clocks or watches appear in ANY of the first six issues and what clues show up in the dialogue do so after the fact. Also, judging from the artwork, the sky over New York City is almost always a dull gray which makes it hard to identify at what time of day certain scenes are occurring. My best guess is that the first three issues occur on each of three consecutive days, and that the last three issues begin on the third night and lead into the fourth day. Sorry I cant be much more specific. 

Finally, Ed Brubaker seems to like to interrupt the present-day story in order to provide some relevant backstory. While most of these are not flashbacks, others do SEEM to qualify as FBs and Ive listed them as such. If Im wrong, let me know. 

ADDED: Although someone suggested that Roman numerals could be used to identify the various Iron Fists since we now know that there have been sixty-six, that can't work because we only know the "numbers" of the last two, Orson and Danny. Therefore, I've chosen to identify the other three Iron Fists who appear in this first story arc by the years that were listed alongside their names in their first appearances. 


CIVIL WAR: CHOOSING SIDES #1/3 (pages 17-24 [not counting ads]) 
December, 2006 
Writers: Ed Brubaker & Matt Fraction, Artist: David Aja 

Appearances: Daniel Rand (as both the Daredevil impersonator and as Iron Fist), various unnamed police officers (including a female victim), Jeryn Hogarth (voice on phone message) 

Brief Synopsis: One moonlit night, Daredevil attacks five armed men who are seemingly menacing a woman in an alley but soon learns that its all a trap set by the police. As the female officer advises him that hes under arrest for violation of the Superhuman Registration Act, Daredevil manages to reach the street where he uses the civilian populace as cover for his escape. Returning to his home, he listens to a recorded phone message from Jeryn advising Danny about this thing coming up next week which is big for everybody (including all of China). As Jeryns message reminds Danny to remember who he is, Daredevil enters a secret room with two mannequins, one clothed in an Iron Fist costume. As Danny Rand removes the Daredevil costume, he has a flashback to when he agreed to keep wearing the Daredevil suit while Matt Murdock was away for a few weeks. After recalling how he gained the power of Shou-Lao the Undying, Danny vows (in his thoughts) to continue wearing Matts mask and fighting this war in his place but that soon it will be time to carry my own burdens again. 

References: This story takes place after the Superhuman Registration Act went into effect but before Daredevil was captured and sent to the Negative Zone prison in CIVIL WAR LS. It also takes place after the events in flashback #1. Also, the thing coming up next week occurs in IMMORTAL IRON FIST #1. 

Flashback #1 (page 6 of the story): 
Daniel Rand (Iron Fist), Daredevil (Matthew Murdock) 

On a rooftop in the city, Danny (dressed as Iron Fist) talks with Matt Murdock (dressed as Daredevil) and tells him that it will not be a burden for him to keep wearing Matts suit for a few weeks (or more). Danny then confirms that the Rand jet will be waiting on the runway for Matt. This flashback occurs within Daredevil vol. 2 #87, between pages 17 & 18. This is after Danny gets into his Iron Fist costume and he and Matt and Dakota and Ben find Lennoxs e-ticket to Monaco but before the scene in the Newark motel room where Matt tells Ben that he has to keep covering for me, just like Danny is. 

Flashback #2 (on story pages 7-8): Danny recalls how he became Iron Fist by facing and killing Shou-Lao the Undying, and then plunging his hands into the beasts unholy heart until his fists became like unto a thing of iron. 

Possible continuity goof: In Choosing Sides the fact that the Rand jet will be waiting on the runaway for Matt is mentioned but DD2 87 ends with Michael Murdock about to board what is apparently a commercial flight to Europe. 



THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST #1 (cover-dated January, 2007) 
The Last Iron Fist Story part 1 

Appearances: Iron Fist-1227 (Bei Ming-Tian), Iron Fist (Daniel Rand), hordes of Hydra (none named), Jeryn Hogarth, Mr. Xao (not named until IF5 #3) of Wai-Go Industries, Hydra Mechagorgon, Davos, two of Crane Mothers daughters (true identities not revealed until IF5 #4), Crane Mother (not named or fully seen until IF5 #4), Iron Fist-1915 (Orson Randall) 

Brief Synopsis: In the Thirteenth Century, a male Iron Fist faced off against the armies of the Khan. In the present, Iron Fists investigation of a Chinese company that wants to do business with Rand Corp leads to him battling the hordes of Hydra while the agents of Davos confirm that a certain opium addict in Bangkok, Thailand is Orson Randall, an Iron Fist who was last seen in 1933. 

Detailed Synopsis: 
Pages 1-3: In 1227 A.D., a male Iron Fist (Bei Ming-Tian) defends an insignificant village of 300 people (more or less) in the Kun-Lun Mountain Range from the unstoppable hordes of the Khan (that would be Genghis Khan). 

Pages 4-8, 10, and 15 (panels 3+4)-19: In 2006, Iron Fist (Daniel Rand) fights a nighttime running battle in the rain against a legion of Hydra agents who have been chasing him across the rooftops of Manhattan. During the battle he engages in a continuous internal monologue about how he got to this point in his life. He also has flashbacks showing how he arrived in Kun-Lun, how he fought Shou-Lao the Undying, and how what happened that morning at Rand Corp had led him to his current battle. He finally falls over the side of a building while battling a mechanical Hydra weapon, the Mechagorgon. 

Pages 20-24: In Bangkok, Thailand at sunset, a beautiful young woman is told that a certain opium addict is the one she seeks. She relays the information to Davos but when he angrily insists that they dont take the word of drug peddlers she says that they will confirm it themselves. Davos then suffers a painful telepathic conversation with someone(s) who reminds him that we brought you back for a reason but who will be more than happy to take him away again. Meanwhile, the beautiful girl and her identical sister confront the addict and attack him with knives which he shatters with his hands. Having gotten what they came for (by slashing open his shirt to reveal the winged dragon brand on his chest), the two girls transform into cranes and fly away, leaving Orson Randall, an Iron Fist from c. 1915 who was last seen in 1933, upset that something isnt as over as it was supposed to be. 

References: 
On page 7, Daniel Rand is identified as Iron Fist c. 2006 A.D. 

Flashback #1 (panels 9-13 from a double-page spread on pages 6-7): 
Wendell, Heather and Daniel Rand; Harold Meachum; various wolves of Kun-Lun (including Fera?); unnamed archer from Kun-Lun. The idea that Fera was one of the wolves who ate Heather Rand was first mentioned in Power Man and Iron Fist #97. 
NOTE: None of these characters are identified by name or shown clearly. 

When Daniel Rand was a boy, he accompanied his parents and a fourth individual into the Kun-Lun Mountains looking for the mystical City of Kun-Lun. Unfortunately, Father fell to his death (after the fourth person stepped on his hand) and Mother later sacrificed herself to the pursuing wolves in order to save the life of her son who was brought into Kun-Lun by someone armed with a crossbow. 

This is basically a very brief recap of how Danny Rand first arrived in Kun-Lun (as first shown in flashbacks in Marvel Premiere #15). No new information. 

Events in this flashback took place well over ten years ago and maybe over twenty. 

Flashback #2 (page 9): 
Daniel Rand, Shou-Lao the Undying. 
Standing in the caves of Shou-Lao the Undying as the champion of Kun-Lun, Danny Rand battled (and killed) the dragon and then plunged his hands into its molten heart in order to gain the power of the Iron Fist. 

This is basically a very brief recap of how Danny Rand gained the power of the Iron Fist (first shown in flashback in Marvel Premiere #16). No new information. 

Events in this flashback took place nine years after Danny arrived in Kun-Lun (as mentioned in Iron Fist I#2). 

Flashback #3 (pages 11-15 [panels 1-2]): 
Daniel Rand, Jeryn Hogarth, unnamed representative from Wai-Go Industries, hordes of Hydra (none named) 

During a morning meeting at Rand Corp at which the contracts for a $10.6 billion deal with Wai-Go Industries (to build 2,500 kilometers of maglev Randtrack from Beijing to Hong Kong, and 10 Randrapid trains) are to be signed, Danny Rand suddenly cancels the deal because of Chinas poor human rights record. Once the Wai-Go representatives leave (after making a vague threat), Jeryn fwaks Danny on the back of his head for throwing away three-and-a-half years of his life and promises to leave the company if Danny doesnt let him fix things with Wai-Go. So, that night, Danny (naturally) dresses up as Iron Fist and breaks into Wai-Gos offices looking for evidence that they are bad guys. He soon realizes that, despite the trappings of productivity, the offices have never been used, and then the hordes of Hydra show up and IF jumps out a window to escape a hail of gunfire. 

This flashback leads into the Iron Fist vs. Hydra battle on page 4. 

NOTES: This is the first time that readers have ever seen any earlier Iron Fists (except for ghostly headshots of previous Iron Fists that appeared to Davos when he was in the Anomaly Gem [as shown in IF2 #1]). 


THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST #2 (cover-dated February, 2007) 
The Last Iron Fist Story part 2 

Appearances: Iron Fist-1545 (Wu Ao-Shi), the Pinghai Wouku (pirates); Iron Fist (Daniel Rand), Luke Cage, unnamed nurse (Night Nurse?), Orson Randall, three NYPD officers (later revealed to be Hydra agents), Jeryn Hogarth 

Brief Synopsis: In the Sixteenth Century, a female Iron Fist fought the Pinghai Wouku pirates for control of Pinghai Bay in China. In the present, Hydra leaves Iron Fist for the authorities but Luke Cage rescues him first, takes him to safety and gets him medical care. Orson Randalls attempt to enter New York City undetected fails and results in the deaths of two of the assassins sent after him. Danny is told by Jeryn that Rand Corp seems to be the target of a hostile takeover by Wai-Go and he then experiences extreme pain in his hand which he realizes is caused by someone else using the Iron Fist. 

Detailed Synopsis: 
Pages 1-3: In 1545 A.D., a female Iron Fist (Wu Ao-Shi) is forced by the pirates called the Pinghai Wouku to sail her flaming ship into Pinghai Bay but she then strikes back, firing flaming arrows from her bow to kill many of the pirates and set their junks on fire. She claims Pinghai Bay as being under her rule. 

Pages 4-5: In present-day New York, Iron Fists long fall ends when he crashes through a glass ceiling and lands heavily on a lower level. With an alarm ringing, the Hydra forces leave him to be taken care of by the authorities since hes unregistered. Danny manages to call Luke for help on his comlink before passing out. 

Pages 6-9: Later that night, Danny regains consciousness in a run-down (motel?) room and finds that Luke is there with a nurse who has been looking after him. As soon as she leaves, Danny blacks out again and doesnt come to until three hours later. Danny and Luke eat beef chow-fun and talk about how its not like old times anymore, and then Luke shows Danny a flyer for Misty Knights new Heroes For Hire team that is working freelance for the pro-registration authorities. 

Pages 10-13 (panels 1-2): Orson Randall arrives at a New York City area airport and uses his Iron Fist powers to convince an immigration clerk that he has the proper passport and declaration forms. Three NYPD officers see what he did and convince him to go with them willingly so as to avoid any harm coming to the innocent people around them. Later, while they are driving through the city, Randall causes the patrol car to crash after one of the officers inadvertently reveals that they are imposters working for someone who speaks Chinese. Randall kicks his way out of the overturned car and escapes. 

Pages 13 (panel 3 on)-15: Later that day, an upset Danny is training when Jeryn comes in and reveals that Rand Corp is the target of a hostile takeover by Wai-Go Industries. Danny is then brought to his knees by an extreme pain in his right hand. 

Pages 16, 20 and 21: In Chinatown, Randall is being tracked by two of the fake policemen, one of whom can sense that he is nearby and watching them. The other thug then grabs an innocent passerby and snaps the old womans neck, promising to kill them all unless Randall shows himself. This murderous act triggers a memory of a traumatic World War One slaughter and when Randall regains his senses the killer lies dying at his feet amidst evidence of a fierce battle. When the other assassin attacks, Randall quickly kills him with a blow which bursts his heart in his chest. 

Page 22: At that moment, as Danny lies on the floor being tended to by Jeryn, he realizes that Someone else is using the Iron Fist! 

References: 
On page 5, the Hydra thugs leave Iron Fist to be found and taken care of by the authorities because hes unregistered, after all. 

On page 6, Luke thanks the nurse for looking after him (Danny) this time of the night. The nurse reassures him that it was nothing and says that there are so many super-injuries these days and unregistered heroes cant get treatment that shes actually been thinking about opening up a system of underground clinics. If this nurse is the Night Nurse who appeared in DD2 80, then this appearance takes place after that and (probably) after her appearances in Doctor Strange: The Oath LS. It should be noted that Danny (as Iron Fist) appears in the first issue of that LS. 

On page 9, Luke shows Danny a flyer put out by the new pro-registration Heroes For Hire team of which Misty Knight is a member. This is the first time that Danny learns that Misty is on the pro-registration side. Cages appearance in this storyline probably occurs before he appears in Heroes For Hire #2-3 (which takes place soon after Civil War #4). 

Flashback #1 (pages 17-19) 
Orson Randall, Jacques, various unnamed French and German soldiers. 

On July 23rd, 1916 at Fort Souville, France  Orson Randall runs through French trenches full of dead men (killed by German poison gas attacks) calling for his friend Jacques. After finding him, Randall warns Jacques that thousands of Germans are coming with flamethrowers and urges Jacques to find what men he can and regroup at the fort while he holds the Germans off. Coming across some German troops burning French survivors alive, Randall charges at them, saying Try burning me as he jumps straight at the flamethrower. 

This flashback is supposed to have taken place during the Battle of Verdun, the longest and one of the bloodiest battles of World War One. 


THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST #3 (cover-dated March, 2007) 
The Last Iron Fist Story part 3 

Appearances: Iron Fist-1860 (Bei Bang-Wen), various unnamed Chinese soldiers, various unnamed British solders (from the mighty 31st); Iron Fist (Daniel Rand), Jeryn Hogarth, Xao and various other (unnamed) agents of Hydra, Davos, two of Crane Mothers daughters (true identities not revealed until IF5 #4), Orson Randall, unnamed writer, unnamed madam and two unnamed prostitutes, one of the fake policemen from last issue 

Brief Synopsis: In the Nineteenth Century, a male Iron Fist led Chinese troops in opposing a British attack on the Taku Forts on the Hai River in China. In the present, Iron Fists investigation of whoever was using the power of Shou-Lao the Undying leads him to a crime scene where three people were killed the previous night. Davos arrives at Wai-Go Industries Tower (with the two beautiful Asian girls from issue #1) and is informed by Xao of Hydras failure to apprehend Orson Randall. Later, Davos and the girls kill the assassin who survived. Unable to go to SHIELD for help, Danny goes to his office in the Rand building but finds Randall waiting for him. Immediately recognizing him as the one using the Iron Fist, Danny attacks but only a few blows are exchanged before Randall stops the fight by revealing that he not only knew Dannys father, he taught him practically everything he knew. 

Detailed Synopsis: 
Pages 1-4: In 1860 A.D., a male Iron Fist (Bei Bang-Wen) is the master of Chinese troops defending the Taku Forts on the Hai River. He reminds his most loyal and ferocious brothers that their most holy plan is for them to fire at the British on his order, then to fall back to secondary positions while he buys them as much time as possible. The British open fire, then the Chinese open fire. With many dead on both sides, the wounded Iron Fist attacks the British commander of the mighty 31st with his hands ablaze, thinking to himself that there is no shame in terror or destruction or death, only in a life lived in fear of death. 

Pages 5-6: At the Rand Building, Danny brushes aside Jeryns concerns that he almost died last night and insists that he has to figure out whats going on. He then changes into his Iron Fist costume and dives out the window. The shock wave that he felt last night was caused by someone else using the power of Shou-Lao the Undying, and IF concentrates so that he can focus his energy on following the vibrations caused by the interaction of his Chi with that of the other user of the power of the dragon. 

Pages 7-8: Davos and two Asian women arrive at Wai-Go Industries Tower and are met by Xao who reports their (Hydras) failure to apprehend Orson Randall as he entered the country last night. Xao then briefs Davos about how the Hydra squad who fought Iron Fist dispersed after confirming that he wasnt Orson Randall, and left Daniel Rand unconscious for SHIELD to capture rather than risk exposure. Davos berates Xao for violating his orders to stay away from Rand. 

Pages 9-10: Iron Fist tracks the shock wave to a crime scene where three people died last night and vows to find whoever did it and stop him with his bare hands. 

Page 11: Dressed in rags, Randall realizes that he needs to look important when he goes to see a man today so he accosts a businessman in the street and insists on buying his suit. 

Pages 12-13: In Paris, France in 1926, a man who is trying to write a book about the war arrives at a brothel where Randall, now an opium addict, has a suite. After the madam shows him in, the writer tries to interview Randall about how the veterans are finding their way back but Randall gets upset, calls him a vulture and a maggot and then beats on him. 

Pages 14-15: As Iron Fist evades SHIELD agents in helicopters with searchlights, he realizes that he cant deal with the threat as Iron Fist but as Danny Rand, using the power of his fathers most precious gift to him, the Rand Corporation. 

Pages 16-18: Davos and the two women confront the third failed assassin (who never even made it out of the car after Randall crashed it) who is being held by a collar around his neck attached to lines held by six other Hydra agents. As Davos states that he refuses to accept soldiers in his army who will not even fight, the women turn into cranes and land on the wires, helping to strangle the prisoner. Davos then orders his soldiers, the men of mighty Hydra, to go forth and find the men known as Iron Fist. 

Pages 19-22: Arriving at his office in the Rand building, Danny is surprised to find a man waiting there. As the stranger introduces himself as Orson Randall, Danny realizes that hes the one using the Iron Fist and attacks without warning. The two of them exchange a few blows before Danny tries to use the Iron Fist on him but Randall blocks it and then reveals that he knew Dannys father and practically taught him everything he knew about fighting. 

According to Wikipedia, the mighty 31st is probably the 31st (Huntingdonshire) Regiment who were part of the Anglo-French Expeditionary Force of 1860. The attack on the Taku Forts occurred in August of 1860 as part of the Third Chinese War/Second Opium War (1856-1860). 


THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST #4 (cover-dated May, 2007) 
The Last Iron Fist Story part 4 

Appearances: Orson Randalls unnamed parents, various unnamed celestial inhabitants of Kun-Lun; Iron Fist (Orson Randall), Iron Fist (Daniel Rand), Davos, two of Crane Mothers daughters, various Hydra soldiers and a Mechagorgon, Mr. Xao, Jeryn Hogarth, Crane Mother of the City of Kun-Zi. 

Brief Synopsis: (In the late Nineteenth Century) Orson Randalls father crashed his transglobal airship into the heart of Kun-Lun on the one day in ten years that it was on Earths plane of existence. In the present, Orson Randall tells Daniel Rand some of his lifestory as he leads them to the hidden Five Points Station, an abandoned pneumatic subway station that is miles beneath New York City. Meanwhile, Davos has a flashback of his past while fighting and killing two Hydra legions, Xao gets what he wants from Rand Corp by using her against Jeryn Hogarth, Hydra forces attack the two Iron Fists in the underground station, and Davos contacts his patroness, Crane Mother of the City of Kun-Zi. 

Detailed Synopsis: 
Pages 4-5: After revealing (in flashback #1) how the Randall family arrived in Kun-Lun, Orson Randall tells Danny Rand about how he was born there a few weeks later and how he was accepted as a native-born son, was taught by Yu-Ti and trained by the immortal Lei Kung the Thunderer. Randall then leads Danny along a subway tunnel (which he calls the Underworld) on the way to Orsons fathers pneumatic subway station. 

Pages 6-7: At the Wai-Go American Headquarters, the two scantily-clad Asian women watch as Davos quickly defeats a half-dozen Hydra agents. 

Page 8: Orson asks Danny how the Rand family empire began and Danny replies that his father played the markets. Danny then tries out the hypnotic fist technique that Orson showed him. Orson then reveals that theres an evil up there thats waited decades to destroy them. Orson then reveals more of his life story (see flashback #2). 

Page 11-12: After Danny asks him if he was the first Iron Fist to flee Kun-Lun, Orson reveals that there have been sixty-six men and women to carry the mantle of the Iron Fist. Orson guides Danny in helping him smash through a wall and then welcomes him to the Five Points Station, the crown jewel in Orsons fathers empire of hypothetical science. 

Pages 13 and 16: Davos continues brutally defeating his Hydra opponents, then has a flashback of his life (see flashback #3), and finally sacrifices the lives of the two women in order to unleash an energy burst that wipes out the rest of the Hydra legions and a Mechagorgon. 

Page 17: In a phone conversation, Mr. Xao and Jeryn Hogarth discuss how Rand Corp will begin construction on the demo route of a maglev train (200 kilometers of ultramagnetic track cutting across the Kun-Lun Mountains) and Wai-Go Industries will stop their takeover bid. Their conversation ends when Jeryn begs to be allowed to speak to her and Xao cruelly refuses. 

Pages 18-20: When Hydra invades the Five Points Station, the two Immortal Iron Fists fight back. 

Pages 21-22: After having killed all his opponents, Davos calls out to his adopted mother and asks for a dozen or more of her daughters to be sent to him in New York City to be fuel for him. From the City of Kun-Zi, Crane Mother agrees that he, as the champion and living weapon of Kun-Zi, can use her daughters as he sees fit in order to kill Orson Randall to avenge the atrocities committed by Kun-Lun. 

Flashback #1 (pages 1-3): 
Orson Randalls father and his wife (who was eight months pregnant with Orson), various unnamed citizens of Kun-Lun 

Orson Randalls father was flying his transglobal airship when it crashed into the heart of Kun-Lun on the one day in ten years that the city was on Earths plane of existence. Fortunately, nobody was killed by the crashing airship. Mr. Randall blew off the door of his airship, pointed a gun at the celestials and demanded immediate medical attention for his pregnant wife or else. 

During the crash, the letters ALL fell off the RANDALL logo on the airship...leaving the name "RAND." What a coincidence. 

Since Orson was active as Iron Fist by 1915 but didnt face Shou-Lao until he was 17, the Randall family must have arrived in Kun-Lun sometime before 1898. 

Flashback #2 (pages 9-10): 
Orson Randall (Iron Fist), Shou-Lao the Undying, Lei Kung the Thunderer, various unnamed citizens of Kun-Lun 

(page 9, panel 1)  On his sixteenth birthday, Orson faced the Serpent King (as Lei Kung watched). 
(page 9, panels 2-5)  A year later, Orson fought and defeated Shou-Lao the Undying, and felt its chi flow into him when he touched its still-beating heart. Every soul in Kun-Lun came to see the outworlder who became a native, and the native who became their champion. 
(page 10, panel 1)  Later, Lei Kung (among others) watched Orson leave Kun-Lun as the living weapon Iron Fist. 
(page 10, panels 2-3)  On Earth, Orson fought in a war and knew deaths by the score. 
(page 10, panels 4-5)  Later, after he was summoned home, Orson returned to Kun-Lun where Lei Kung was among those who welcomed him, unaware that he was more of an outworlder than ever. 
(page 10, panel 6)  Later, Orson fled Kun-Lun. 

These flashbacks cover Orsons life from when he was 16 to when he was 20 (when he first left Kun-Lun) to when he returned to Kun-Lun (in or after 1926) to when he fled the city. All of this material is new. 

Flashback #3 (pages 14-15) 
Davos, Wendell Rand, Shou-Lao the Undying; Iron Fist (Daniel Rand), various unnamed Crane Mothers Daughters 

Despite his alleged defeat at the hands of Wendell Rand (that tourist), Davos faced Shou-Lao the Undying anyway and was scarred during his unsuccessful attempt to take the power of the Iron Fist from the dragon. After being cast out of the Heavenly City of Kun-Lun forever, Davos came to Earth and (as the Steel Serpent) fought Daniel Rand and tried to steal his chi from within him but died. Davos later returned from death and became associated with Crane Mothers Daughters. 

This is basically a very brief (and VERY biased) recap of the life of Davos. His banishment from Kun-Lun and the reason for it were first shown in flashback in Marvel Team-Up #64. His battle with Danny Rand, the stealing of Dannys chi, and his death were all shown in Marvel Team-Up #63-64. Although some of the images are new, there is no new info revealed in them. 

However, the two panels with Crane Mothers Daughters are new material and take place before IF5 #1. 

ADDED: If one was to be really picky about it, the panels from page 14 which deal with his duel with Wendell and his fight with Shou-Lao are NOT exactly the same as in the flashback in M/TU 64. If one was to interweave them, they would go like this: 

M/TU 64 (page 6, panels 1-3), IF5 4 (page 14, panel 1), M/TU 64 (page 6, panel 4 to page 7, panel 1), IF5 4 (page 14, panels 1-3). 

Also, the scene of Davos being scarred by Shou-Lao is a bit different in IF5 4 (we see Davos from the front as the dragon slashes down over his eye) than in M/TU 64 (we see Davos from behind as the dragon slashes up across his face). 


THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST #5 (cover-dated June, 2007) 
The Last Iron Fist Story part 5 

Appearances: Yu-Ti, Crane Mother, four (or five?) other unnamed Lords of the Capital Cities of Heaven; Iron Fist (Daniel Rand), Iron Fist (Orson Randall), hordes of Hydra, Davos, many of Crane Mothers Daughters, Jeryn Hogarth, Misty Knight, Luke Cage, Colleen Wing, more hordes of Hydra 

Brief Synopsis: In 1933, a majority of the council of the lords of the seven capital cities of Heaven agree that the Iron Fist who refuses to fight must pay. In the present, the two Iron Fists battle the hordes of Hydra long enough for Orson to get the book detailing the History of the Iron Fist, and then they escape from the ruins of the subway station to the streets above. Orson then reveals how he killed the Immortal Weapon from Kun-Zi. Jeryn Hogarth asks Misty Knight, Luke Cage and Colleen Wing for their help (in rescuing his kidnapped mother). Danny and Orson arrive at the Rand building only to find themselves facing Davos, many Hydra soldiers and many of Crane Mothers Daughters who are all poised to attack them. 

Detailed Synopsis: 
Page 1 is a recap page. 

Pages 2-4: In 1933, six (or seven?) of the lords of the seven capital cities of Heaven meet on sacred ground. Crane Mother demands recompense from Yu-Ti for violating tradition because his Iron Fist refuses to fight. Yu-Ti refuses to turn the Iron Fist over to her but all the other members of the council agree that Iron Fist must pay. 

Pages 5-11: In the Five Points Station, the two Iron Fists hold off the Hydra soldiers long enough for Orson to retrieve a book that he left in one of the subway cars long ago. Orson then crashes a subway train, causing an explosion that destroys his fathers legacy and occupies the Hydra soldiers long enough for them to climb up to the streets above. Orson then gives the book to Danny and explains that it is the History of the Iron Fist, written on parchment made from the scales of Shou-Lao himself, and contains all the secrets of their kung fu, from the first Iron Fist to the one who preceded him. Orson then tells Danny that hell need it for whats coming next and how theyll come for him as they once came for Orson. 

Pages 15-16: At an airport in or near New York, Davos welcomes at least twelve of Crane Mothers Daughters, remarking that they all look ready to die. One of them then relays a message from Crane Mother: If you fail us, we will consume your soul until the sun at the heart of the world burns out. They then all get in limousines for the drive to Rand Corporate Headquarters. 

Pages 17-18: Orson tells Danny how killing another Immortal Weapon broke him more than he was broken already, and so, when Lei Kung, who understood this, was sent to find him, he told Yu-Ti that Orson was dead. Orson then explains about the seven Immortal Weapons and how theyre expected to fight each other in a legacy of blood and death disguised as honor. Orson had taken the book in the hope that without the book the line of Iron Fists would end with him but he was wrong. 

Pages 19-20: At Rand, Jeryn Hogarth explains to Misty Knight, Luke Cage and Colleen Wing that hes been cooperating with Wai-Go Industries because they kidnapped her mother and sent him her finger to force him to resurrect the deal that Danny cancelled. He asks them for their help and they agree...just as Jeryn spots a lot of Hydra soldiers outside the window. 

Pages 21-23: After explaining how Rand Corp. owns more buildings in Manhattan than anybody else in the world because theyre all connected and all lead home to the Rand building, Danny ushers Orson into an elevator that takes them up into the Rand building where they find themselves face-to-face with Davos, many Hydra soldiers and many of Crane Mothers Daughters. 

Flashback #1 (pages 12-14): 
Iron Fist (Orson Randall), four other Immortal Weapons (including the female champion from Kun-Zi) 

In Kun-Lun (in 1933), Orson Randall was confronted by four other Immortal Weapons who forced him to fight them. When Orson learned that they had been sent by the Grand Council of Heavens Seven Cities to strip him of his station, he panicked and struck out, killing the female champion from Kun-Zi, and then fled from Kun-Lun to New York. 

All of these images are new material except for the last panel which is a duplicate of the last panel from page 10 of IF5 #4. 

Flashback #2 (page 19, panel 4): 
Jeryn Hogarth, someone from Wai-Go Industries (voice on phone only) 

Jeryn Hogarth listens on the phone to someone from Wai-Go Industries who tells him, Even lawyers have mothers. Ha ha. 

Jeryn received this phone call sometime between his appearances in IF5 #2 and IF5 #4 (and probably after IF5 #3). 


THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST #6 (cover-dated July, 2007) 
The Last Iron Fist Story part 6 

Appearances: Iron Fist (Orson Randall), L.P. (who MAY be the unnamed writer from IF5 #3), the Last Lightning Lord, Wendell (aka White Boy), Iron Fist (Daniel Rand-Kai), the Steel Serpent (Davos), many unnamed Hydra troops, many of Crane Mothers Daughters, Jeryn Hogarth, Colleen Wing, Luke Cage, Misty Knight, Lei Kung the Thunderer, Yu-Ti 

Brief Synopsis: Many years ago in Nepal, Orson Randall takes an interest in a white boy named Wendell who helped him at the risk of his own life. Later, after years of training, Wendell was determined to find Kun-Lun and become the Iron Fist. In the present, the two Iron Fists begin fighting a legion of Hydra troops and many of Crane Mothers Daughters who are under the command of Davos while Colleen Wing, Luke Cage and Misty Knight begin fighting more Hydra troops to defend Jeryn Hogarth but hes captured by Hydra anyway. Davos then drains the chi from the bird women and uses that power to strike a blow that knocks most of the combatants off their feet, and then fatally wounds Orson (who has stopped fighting). Just as Davos confronts Danny, Misty, Colleen and Luke show up (with Jeryn) and they occupy Davos while Danny talks to the dying Orson and, at Orsons urging, takes his chi as he dies. The newly empowered Iron Fist easily overcomes Davos who calls him a cheater and disappears with the surviving bird women. Noticing that Jeryn has been taken by Hydra, Danny tries to find out where Hydra took him but his search is cut short by the appearance of Lei Kung and Yu-Ti who demand his presence at the Tournament of the Heavenly Cities. Initially unwilling, Danny concedes once Lei Kung point out that those he seeks vengeance on will be found there. Iron Fist then takes the book and disappears with Lei Kung and Yu-Ti. 

Detailed Synopsis: 
Page 1 is a recap page. 

Pages 2-4: Many years ago in Nepal, at a tavern called The Adventurers Club, a drunken Orson Randall curses his biographer (L.P.) for taking notes instead of paying attention to which of the three Magic Chalices of Xu-Ma was poisoned by the Last Lightning Lord with whom Orson is playing a deadly drinking game. Orson has about decided that the poison is in the blue chalice when a white boy speaks up and says its in the green one. Orson then chooses the blue for himself and the green for the Lightning Lord. As his foe dies a horrible death, Orson seeks out the boy who stuck his neck out for a total stranger. The boy identifies himself as Wendell and shows a fighting spirit that impresses Orson who then asks if the boy's celestial slave-masters have fed him anything today. 

Pages 5-6: In the lobby of the Rand building, the two Iron Fists begin fighting a legion of Hydra troops and many of Crane Mothers Daughters (evil kung fu bird women) while Davos, the Steel Serpent, orders his forces to fight and die for him. 

Pages 7-10: Colleen Wing, Luke Cage and Misty Knight begin fighting more Hydra troops who burst into Jeryn Hogarths office but when the Hydra goons manage to grab Jeryn, Colleen dives down the elevator shaft after them leaving Luke and Misty to follow more cautiously. 

Pages 11-16: Davos then drains the chi from the bird women, sacrificing their lives to use that chi to strike a tremendous blow that knocks most of the combatants off their feet. Davos then batters Orson (who has stopped fighting because hes decided he wants honor in death). After striking a lethal blow, Davos turns to Danny and tells him that hes going to die all alone but Misty, Luke and Colleen show up (with a rescued Jeryn) and they begin fighting Davos while Danny talks to the dying Orson. At Orsons urging, Danny takes his chi from him as he dies, thereby increasing Dannys power for use in the Tournament. 

Pages 17-18: After years of training, Wendell insists that hes going to find Kun-Lun and become the Iron Fist but Orson is just as insistent that the Iron Fist is a curse and that Wendell will die if he tries to become the Iron Fist. Wendell remains determined, saying that he knows hes meant for more than what he has and that he has to be there for a reason. 

Pages 19-23: The newly-empowered Iron Fist easily overcomes Davos who calls him a cheater and disappears with the surviving bird women. As Danny thanks Misty for coming, he notices that Jeryn is missing, taken (again) by Hydra. As Danny begins questioning a Hydra thug (with a sword), Lei Kung and Yu-Ti appear and announce that the time of the Tournament of the Heavenly Cities is approaching and that his presence is demanded because the immortal Iron Fist shall fight for the honor of Kun-Lun. Initially unwilling to leave, Danny finally concedes once Lei Kung points out that those he seeks vengeance on will be found when the heavenly planes intersect and not before. After declining Lukes offer of help, Danny takes the book and disappears with Lei Kung and Yu-Ti to fight the fight he was born for. 

END OF BOOK ONE 


Timeline 
DAY ONE 
morning in New York City: IF5 1FB (pages 11-13) 
night in Manhattan: IF5 1-FB (pages 13 [panel 7] to 15 [panels 1-2]), then IF5 1 (pages 4-19 [excluding FBs]) 
sunset in Bangkok: IF5 1 (pages 20-24) 

DAY TWO 
night/early morning in NYC: IF5 2 (pages 4-9) 
day in NYC: IF5 2 (pages 10-15) 
evening/night in Chinatown: IF5 2 (pages 16, 20 and 21) 
night in NYC: IF5 2 (page 22) 

DAY THREE 
day in NYC: IF5 3 (pages 5-11) 
night in NYC: IF5 3 (pages 14-22), IF5 4 

DAY FOUR 
morning/day in NYC: IF5 5-6 



Character Listings: 

CAGE, LUKE/CARL LUCAS 
(start of Civil War) 
IF5 2 
IF5 5 
IF5 6 
(more Civil War) 


CRANE MOTHER of KUN-ZI 
IF5 5 (1933) 
{IF5 1} 
IF5 4 


HOGARTH, JERYN 
FF3 35 
. . . . 
CW/CS 1/3 (voice only, possibly recorded) 
IF5 1-FB 
IF5 2 
IF5 3 
IF5 5-FB (receives phone call about mother) 
IF5 4 (working with Xao) 
IF5 5 
IF5 6 
. . . . 
New Avengers #27? 


IRON FIST/DANIEL RAND-KAI 
. . . . 
DD2 87 
Civil War begins 
CW/CS 1/3-FB 
CW/CS 1/3 
IF5 1-FB 
IF5 1 
IF5 2 
IF5 3 
IF5 4 
IF5 5 
IF5 6 
next IIF story arc 
Civil War continues 
post-CW New Avengers 


IRON FIST-1227/BEI MING-TIAN 
{IF5 1} 


IRON FIST-1545/PIRATE QUEEN OF PINGHAI BAY/WU AO-SHI 
{IF5 2} 


IRON FIST-1860/BEI BANG-WEN 
{IF5 3} 


IRON FIST-1915/THE LAST IRON FIST/ORSON RANDALL 
IF5 4-FB (pre-birth arrival in Kun-Lun) 
IF5 4-FB (training under Lei Kung, becoming the Iron Fist, leaving Kun-Lun) 
IF5 2-FB (1916) 
IF5 4-FB (fighting in WWI)  may be before and/or after IF5 2-FB 
IF5 3 (1926) 
IF5 4-FB (returning to Kun-Lun) 
IF5 5-FB (1933) 
IF5 4-FB (fleeing Kun-Lun) 
IF5 6 (two scenes with Wendell in Nepal, years apart) 
{IF5 1} 
IF5 2 
IF5 3 
IF5 4 
IF5 5 
IF5 6 


KNIGHT, MISTY 
. . . . 
HFH2 1? 
. . . . 
IF5 5 
IF5 6 


LEI KUNG, THE THUNDERER 
. . . . 
M/PRM 22-FB (centuries ago) 
IF5 4-FB (3 different scenes with Orson Randall over at least 20/30 years in the early 20th Century) 
M/TU 64-FB (with his son, Davos) 
. . . . 
IF2 1 
IF2 2 
IF5 6 


NIGHT NURSE? 
DD2 80 
IF5 2 


RAND-KAI, WENDELL 
IF5 6 (two scenes, years apart) 
M/TU 64-FB 
(some flashbacks from first IF series should go here) 
{M/PRM 15-FB} 
IF2 2 


SHOU-LAO THE UNDYING (Isn't listed by the Project? Why not?) 
. . . . 
IF5 4-FB (vs. Orson Randall, before 1915) 
M/TU 64-FB (vs. Davos, 30-40 years ago?) 
{M/PRM 16-FB} (vs. Daniel Rand, 10-20 years ago?) 


STEEL SERPENT II/DAVOS 
M/TU 64-FB 
{IF 1} 
IF 15 
M/TU 63 
M/TU 64 
IF2 1 
IF2 2 
NW2 5 
IF5 4-FB 
IF5 1 
IF5 3 
IF5 4 
IF5 5 
IF5 6 


WING, COLLEEN 
. . . . 
HFH2 1? 
. . . . 
IF5 5 
IF5 6 


Mr. XAO 
{IF5 1-FB} 
IF5 3 
IF5 4 


YU-TI 
Since the two (so far) characters known by the title of Yu-Ti don't have listings for their appearances yet, I'll just says that the Yu-Ti who appears in the 1933 scene in IF5 5 is probably Tuan who next appears in M/TU 64-FB. And the Yu-Ti who appears at the end of IF5 6 is Tuan's son whose last appearance was in IFW 4. 


NOTE: When I first decided to edit my original posting, I was going to make some dramatic changes by removing ALL of the extraneous details that I'd included...but I couldn't bring myself to do it. So I just chopped off a few minor excesses and added some more relevant info that I'd left out the first time around. Hopefully, it's a better read now. 

Don Campbell

Last edited by DonCampbell on 10 Aug 2007 01:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

			*	*	*

24 Jul 2007 10:23 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks, Don. As of tomorrow I'll have two weeks of new comics to catch up on, and when I'm done with those, I'll review your analysis more carefully and see if I have any questions. Hopefully I can work out the CW tie-ins.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

01 Aug 2007 07:16 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Don, it sounds like this arc would go nicely between the appearance of Cage and Iron Fist at T'Challa's and Ororo's wedding in BP4 18 and their appearance (with Danny resuming the guise of DD) in A4 23 (21). On the calendar, this is a two-week period between Dec. 5 and 19. 

This happens to fall between the formation of the Heroes for Hire in HFH2 1-FB [11/25] and Cage's appearance in HFH2 (6-22) [12/31]. It occurs after the registration deadline in CW 2 (8p4) [11/23]. The aforementioned wedding occurs after Danny's appearance as Iron Fist in DD2 87 (1-17) and CW:CS 1/3, which follow his first stint as the new DD.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

14 Aug 2007 09:56 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

However, the two panels with Crane Mothers Daughters are new material and take place before IF5 #1. 

Don, which two panels of issue #4 are these?

Paul B.

			*	*	*

15 Aug 2007 02:08 am 
By DonCampbell

The last two panels on page 15 of IF5 #4, after panel #4 (which shows Davos dying during his battle with Iron Fist in Marvel Team-Up #63). 

Panel #5 shows Davos sitting in a bar somewhere with at least six of Crane Mother's identical daughters standing behind him. His narrative says, "And even from that [death], I have returned to roam..." 

Panel #6 shows Davos in a fighting stance as five cranes fly away from him. In this panel he appears to be wearing the same clothes as in the previous panel. 

Don Campbell

			*	*	*

Thread 29

Subject: Black Panther: Panther's Prey 1-4

16 Aug 2007 02:50 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Slap that Gap! 

Black Panther: Panthers Prey #1 
W: Don McGregor 
D: Dwayne Turner 
Published: September 1990 

Appearances: 
Black Panther IV(TChalla), Solomon Prey, Tanzika, Kantu, WKabi, Ramonda, Monica Lynne-FB, Anton Pretorius-FB, TChaka-FB. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg10 
The Black Panther hangs out in Wakanda. Meanwhile, Solomon Prey grows a set of wings. Meanwhile, Kantu ponders the past. 
Pg11-pg12pn1-FB: Jungle Action 18? 
Black Panther defeats Killmonger. A week later his body is found, and later still a ceremony is held to celebrate Kantus help in the defeat of Killmonger. 
Pg12pn2-pg15pn2 
Kantu walks off. Elsewhere, TChalla hangs out with his mother, Ramonda. 
Pg15pn3-pg15pn5, pg15pn7-FB: after Ramonda is kidnapped 
A young TChalla plays with his father, TChaka. 
Pg15pn6, pg15pn8-pg19pn3 
TChalla and Ramonda talk. Meanwhile, a man on a flying creature nears Wakanda with a bazooka. 
Pg19pn4-pg19pn7-FB 
Ramonda is molested by her captor, Anton Pretorius. 
Pg19pn8-pg34pn6 
Kantu is attacked by the man on the flying creature. TChalla senses something is wrong and makes his way to the scene and defeats the villain. When he asks Kantu what happened, Kantu runs off. Meanwhile, Solomon Prey adjusts to having wings. Elsewhere, WKabi practices using a new weapon. 
Pg34pn7-pg35pn6-FB 
WKabi tries to pick up a lady but is shut down. 
Pg35pn7-pg42pn7 
WKabi talks with TChalla about his mortality and the need to find a wife. 
Pg42pn8-FB 
TChalla and Monica Lynne swim with giant sea turtles. 
Pg42pn9-pg46 
Solomon Prey surveys a group of flying creatures and plans his attack against the Black Panther. Elsewhere, the Black Panther catches Kantu smoking crack. 

References: 
Thats right, Kantu smokes crack! By the way, is Kantu a pre-existing character? The narrative ties him to Killmongers death in Jungle Action, but I only own one of those(22), so Im not sure if hes a new character newly implanted to that time, or if he was there originally and McGregors picking up on him.(which is entirely possible, McGregor wrote those Jungle Action issues) Im pretty sure the defeat of Killmonger was shown, but I dont know if his bodys recovery was. Im guessing that the celebration for Kantu is new material anyone know? 

The conversation between TChalla & Ramonda seems to suggest this takes place shortly after he rescues her in M/CP 13-M/CP 37.(that was published throughout 1989, and this series started coming out at the end of 1990, so it would seem that McGregor finished the M/CP arc then started to work on this. How much happens between that & this I guess well find out) 

Anton Pretorius was the guy holding Ramonda captive for years, and he previously appeared in the aforementioned M/CP arc. Im not seeing a listing for him 

WKabi cant get any ladies because he only has one arm. Im assuming this FlashBack happens relatively shortly before the start of this miniseries.(this reminds me, a while back I forgot to suggest a placement for WKabis appearance in BP4 3-FB, which would be before A 62. Oops!) 

Black Panther: Panthers Prey #2 
W: Don McGregor 
D: Dwayne Tuner 
Published: November 1990 

Appearances: 
Black Panther IV(TChalla), Solomon Prey, Tanzika, Kantu, WKabi, Ramonda, Taku, Venomm, Monica Lynne-FB. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg20pn10 
The Black Panther is attacked and injured by Solomon Prey, along with a guy on a flying dinosaur. After revealing hes responsible for the drugs entering Wakanda Solomon vanishes. TChalla makes his way to the city and gets patched up by a doctor, then holds a meeting about possible industrial espionage. 
Pg20pn11-pg20pn12-FB 
A younger TChalla & Monica have some fun on a date. 
Pg20pn13-pg37pn5 
After finishing the meeting, TChalla & WKabi talk again about finding a wife, the Ramonda yells at TChalla for the way hes treating Kantu. TChalla chats with Kantu about drugs, then TChalla chats with Ramonda. 
Pg37pn6-FB 
TChalla & Monica ride giant sea turtles. 
Pg38pn1-pg438pn3-FB: probably not new info, Jungle Action 6? 
The Black Panther encounters Monica in the jungle outside Wakanda. 
Pg38pn4-pg46 
TChalla chats with Ramonda about finding a wife, and tells her that hes going to find Monica and tell her how he feels. Later, Kantu overdoses, and his body is found the next morning. Elsewhere, Solomon Prey gets busy. 

References: 
Venomm is now Takus aide, and Venomm was the villain responsible for ripping off WKabis arm. 

This is the second sea turtle FlashBack so its almost definitely the same date. Also, Im pretty sure that TChallas & Monicas jungle encounter was a previously published scene, If only because the only issue of Jungle Action I own is 22, and the next issue of Panthers Prey has a Flashback scene directly lifted from JA 22. Therefore, I wont be suggesting placements for any of these Flashbacks. If Im wrong please let me know. 

Black Panther: Panthers Prey #3 
W: Don McGregor 
D: Dwayne Turner 
Published: January 1991 

Appearances: 
Black Panther IV(TChalla), Solomon Prey, Tanzika, WKabi-FB, Taku-FB, Kantus body-FB, Monica Lynne. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg3pn1 
The Black Panther runs through the jungle. 
Pg3pn2-pg3pn4-FB 
Years ago, scientists discover new technology in Wakanda. No recurring characters appear here. 
Pg4-FB: earlier that night 
TChalla has dinner with guests. 
Pg5pn1, pg5pn3, pg5pn6 
The Black Panther runs around. 
Pg5pn2, pg5pn4-pg5pn5, pg5pn7-pg5pn9-FB: earlier that night 
TChalla and his guests finish dinner. 
Pg6-pg8 
The Black Panther finishes running, then plays with some panthers. Elsewhere, Monica Lynne finishes singing a set. 
Pg9-FB 
Monica tries to get a recording contract. 
Pg10pn1-pg10pn4 
The audience applauds Monica after her set is finished. 
Pg10pn5-pg10pn6-FB 
Repeat of Jungle Action 22, no new information. 
Pg10pn7-pg14pn7, pg14pn9 
Monicas boss tries to short change her, so she knees him in the crotch. 
Pg14pn8, pg14pn10-FB 
Monica tries to make ends meet on her own. 
Pg15pn1-pg15pn3-FB 
After breaking up with TChalla Monica dates Dan Hopkins, but it doesnt work out. 
Pg15pn4-pg17 
The Black Panther arrives in Washington DC. 
Pg18-FB 
A funeral is held for Kantu. 
Pg19-pg41pn5 
The Black Panther attends a meeting with his Wakandan representative at the Wakandan Embassy, then makes his way to Monicas place. Meanwhile, Solomon Prey steals some Vibranium. 
Pg41pn6-FB 
Monica plays with her sister as a child. 
Pg42-pg46 
TChalla & Monica Get It On. 

References: 
Now we know what Monicas been up to lately. 

Black Panther: Panthers Prey #4 
W: Don McGregor 
D: Dwayne Turner 
Published: March 1991 

Appearances: 
Black Panther IV(TChalla), Solomon Prey, Tanzika, WKabi, Ramonda, Taku, Venomm, Monica Lynne, Jese Lynne, Lloyd Lynne. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg27 
The Black Panther attacks one of Solomon Preys drug shipments, but is overpowered and buried alive. He escapes and makes his way back to his embassy, where hes patched up. He and Monica make their way to Georgia, where TChalla asks for her parents permission to marry their daughter. Afterwards, TChalla and Monica make their announcement to the world via satellite. Elsewhere, Solomon Prey & Tanzika get busy while they plan to overthrow Wakanda. 
Pg28pn1-FB 
Tanzika kills her lover Zatama. 
Pg28pn2-pg46 
Black Panther arrives in Wakanda where he meets his supporting cast. Solomon Prey attacks, but is accidentally killed by a flying dinosaur. 

References: 
Monicas parents appear here,(Lloyd & Jesse) and theyve appeared before in at least Jungle Action 22. I have no idea if theyve appeared in other Jungle Action issues, though 

Yeah, thats how it ends. 

Some placement suggestions! 

LYNNE, MONICA 
*BP: PP 3 (41:6)-FB 
JA 19-FB 
{A 73-FB} 
A 73 
A 74 
A 78 
A 79 
*BP: PP 1-FB 
*BP: PP 2-FB 
BP3 6 (13:3)-FB 
JA 6 
 
M/PRM 53 
*BP: PP 3-FB 
*BP: PP 3 
*BP: PP 4 
DLOK2 22 
 

LYNNE, LLOYD 
BP: PP 3-FB 
JA 22 
BP: PP 4 

LYNNE, JESSE 
BP: PP 3-FB 
JA 22 
BP: PP 4 

W'KABI 
*BP4 3-FB 
{A 62} 
JA 6 
*BP: PP 1-FB
*BP: PP 1
*BP: PP 2
*BP: PP 3-FB
*BP: PP 4 
DLOK2 22 
 

TAKU 
A 68 
FF 119 
JA 6 
*BP: PP 2
*BP: PP 3-FB
*BP: PP 4 
M/SH3 1/7 
DLOK2 22 
 

VENOMM/HORATIO WALTERS 
 
JA 18 
*BP: PP 2
*BP: PP 4 
DLOK2 22 
 

PRETORIUS, ANTON 
M/CP 37/2-FB 
BP: PP 1-FB 
M/CP 35/2-BTS 
M/CP 36/2-BTS 
M/CP 37/2 

RAMONDA 
M/CP 37/2-FB 
BP3 10-FB 
BP3 12-FB 
M/CP 37/2-FB 
*BP: PP 1-FB 
M/CP 35/2-BTS 
M/CP 36/2-BTS 
M/CP 37/2 
*BP: PP 1
*BP: PP 2
*BP: PP 4 
BP3 1 
... 

PREY, SOLOMON 
BP: PP 1 
BP: PP 2 
BP: PP 3 
BP: PP 4 

BLACK PANTHER II/T'CHAKA 
 
M/CP 37/2-FB 
STORM2 5-FB 
JA 15-FB 
*BP: PP 1-FB 
{FF 53 (6:2 - 7:2)-FB} 
BP3 5 (9:1 - 9:2)-FB 
 


BLACK PANTHER IV/T'CHALLA 
BP3 10 (7:3)-FB 
BP3 27 (11:3)-FB 
BP3 10 (7:4 - 7:5)-FB 
STORM2 5-FB 
JA 15-FB 
*BP: PP 1-FB 
FF 53 (6:2 - 6:4)-FB 
 
A 126 
M/TU 20 
*BP: PP 1-FB 
*BP: PP 2-FB 
BP3 6-FB 
JA 6 
 
FF@ 22 
*BP: PP 1
*BP: PP 2
*BP: PP 3-FB
*BP: PP 3
*BP: PP 4 
M/SH3 1/7 
MK3 14-BTS 
NF3 12-BTS 
 

I may be a bit off on the sea turtle/dating FlashBacks for TCahlla & Monica Im also not sure if Kantu is a pre-existing character I'm also not sure if Monica's paernts appeared in other issues of Jungle Action... if anyone who has the Jungle Action comics sees something wrong, please let me know. Thanks!

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 30

Subject: Fight-Man

16 Aug 2007 06:31 pm 
By Dhall

Fight Man 1 
June 1993 
Characters Appearing: 
Fight-Man (also in brief fbs) 
Glass Eye-Freddy 
Metalhead 
Triggerman Carr 
Plug-In Maniac 
Atomic Lou 
Massive Globula 
LaCoco, Beverly (also in fb) 
One-Man Atrocity 
Crimeasaurus II 
Able-Bodied Assassin 
Polka Doctor 
Walsh, Deborah 
Hooded Eye II/ Kid Fight Man/Kenny Liebman (also in fb) 
Elongated Armstrong 
Human Wreck 
Super Mummy 
Riot Grrl 
Fisticuff Woman 
Big Strong Man 
Bigger Strong Man 
Biggest Strong Man 
Hooded Eye (only in fb) 

Synopsis: In Delta City, where this is a lot of crime, the police are useless, so youre only recourse is Fight Man. Besides, fighting crime, he tries to sell his action figure line, and is getting sued by his ex-wife. A bunch of his old enemies team up and try to kill him under the command, of his greatest enemy, the Hooded Eye. When the eye puts out a ten million dollar bounty on Fight Man, the entire city decides to collect. When someone drops a building oh him, Fight Man is captured. It turns out that the Eye is is old sidekick, Kid Fight Man. Even his ex-wife is in on the plot. Fight Man breaks free, but is arrested by the cops for endangering all of his dead kid sidekicks.

			*	*	*

16 Aug 2007 06:39 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

I'm going to have to hit eBay for this, it sounds brilliant. 

Thanks Dave!

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 31

Subject: Thor: Son of Asgard 7-12

17 Aug 2007 06:45 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Thor: Son of Asgard #7 
W: Akira Yoshida 
D: Gregg Tocchini 
Published: October, 2004 

Appearances: 
Thor, Sif, Volstagg, Balder, Hogun, Frandral, Odin, Frigga, Loki, Amora(Enchantress), Brunnhilda 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg20 
Thor and the gang spar in the courtyard while Odin & Frigga watch from afar. Elsewhere, Loki & Amora plot to cause Thor trouble. Meanwhile, Thor & Sif have a heart to heart and as theyre about to kiss, theyre interrupted by Amora. 
Pg21-pg22: next day 
Sif goes to class where the instructor introduces a new student: Brunnhilda. 

References: 
The events of issue six were months ago. 

Thor: Son of Asgard #8 
W: Akira Yoshida 
D: Gregg Tocchini 
Published: November, 2004 

Appearances: 
Thor, Sif, Volstagg, Balder, Hogun, Frandral, Brunnhilda, Loki, Amora 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg3pn4-FB 
Sif & Thor play together, and Loki is jealous. One night he cuts off her blonde hair in revenge, but seeing how sad it made her he brings the hair to some trolls to enchant it. When he brings the hair back it reattaches to Sifs head, but it turns black. 
Pg3pn5-pg3pn6(of 6): same night as end of last issue 
Sif looks in the mirror. 
Pg4-pg18: next day 
Sif goes to class and picks a fight with Brunnhilda and is taunted by Amora, and is scolded by the instructor. Afterwards, Loki asks for Sifs help in retrieving the Mirror of Mycha. She does, under the assumption it will make Thor love her. 
Pg19-pg22: next day 
Loki enchants the mirror but Sif is ambushed by Amora. She uses the mirror to enchant Thor herself. 

References: 
This FlashBack should be the last appearance of blonde Sif & the first appearance of raven-haired Sif. 

Thor: Son of Asgard #9 
W: Akira Yoshida 
D: Gregg Tocchini 
Published: December, 2004 

Appearances: 
Thor, Sif, Brunnhilda, Loki, Amora, Frigga 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg19: same day as last issue 
Sif attacks Amora, then backs off. Brunnhilda approaches Sif and she tells Brunnhilda about the mirror. Together they approach Loki & Amora and break the mirror, which releases the recently arrived Thor from the spell. He leaves, disgusted that Sif would use sorcery to win his love. 
Pg20-pg22: a few days later 
Frigga has a chat with Sif, and later that day Sif lets Thor know how she feels about him with a kiss. 

Thor: Son of Asgard #10 
W: Akira Yoshida 
D: Gregg Tocchini 
Published: January, 2005 

Appearances: 
Thor, Sif, Balder, Sisters of Norn, Odin 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8 
Sif & Balder chat about Thor, then stumble across him trying to lift Mjolnir. Thor gets an idea and runs off to visit the Fates. 
Pg9-pg22: days later 
Thor chats with the Sisters of Norn and they tell him of coming disaster, then teleport him back home where he finds the city under attack by Strom Giants. He comes across Balder who tells him Sif has been captured. Odin tells Thor to protect the city, but he wants to help rescue Sif. After thinking about it, Thor picks up Mjolnir to fight the Storm Giants. 

References: 
Its been weeks since last issue. 

This is the first time Thor has fully lifted & wielded Mjolnir. 

Thor: Son of Asgard #11 
W: Akira Yoshida 
D: Gregg Tocchini 
Published: February, 2005 

Appearances: 
Thor, Rugga, Hela, Sif 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: continued directly from last issue 
Thor rides to Jotunheim and attacks the Storm Giants. After a fight he confronts Rugga, and then Hela to free Sif. 

References: 
Thor flies by throwing his hammer. Yay! 

Thor: Son of Asgard #12 
W: Akira Yoshida 
D: Gregg Tocchini 
Published: March, 2005 

Appearances: 
Thor, Sif, Hela 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: same day as last issue 
Thor saves Sif from Hela. 

References: 
There was a bunch of talk about whether this series took place in the history of the Thor we know, or if this was some other Pre-Ragnarok Asgard. Not knowing that much about Thors history, Im not sure how well this fits. I remember a big bit of contention was Sifs hair does the FlashBack in issue 8 fix that?

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 32

Subject: Franklin Richards: Son of a Genius Super Summer Spectacular

Aug 17, 2007 2:41 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Franklin Richards: Son of a Genius Super Summer Spectacular #1 
Published: September, 2006 

*I'm not sure how many of these stories were published first elsewhere...* 

1st story: Field of Screams 

Appearances: 
Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Thing, Human Torch, Franklin Richards, HERBIE 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5 
At his baseball game, Franklin tries to get an edge by using Impacto Kinetic Amplification Gel on his bat. He eventually hits a home run, but in the bottom of the ninth he drops a pop fly when his glove explodes.(the gel is all over his hands) 

References: 
The Fantastic Four are watching the game in the stands in street clothes. 

Its the last game of the season. 

Peewee football starts in a few weeks. 

2nd story: Squid Kid! 

Appearances: 
Franklin Richards, HERBIE, Squid Kid 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5pn3 
To research his science homework, Franklin takes the Fantasti-Sub into the ocean where he & HERBIE are attacked by a giant squid. Theyre saved by Squid Kid, who follows them home. 
Pg5pn4-pg5pn6(of 6): next day 
Franklin got an F on his science assignment,(because he wrote about Squid Kid and not squids) but he plans to bring Squid Kid to show-and-tell tomorrow. 

References: 
Spans two days, both of which are school days, as is tomorrow. 

3rd story: Freaky Franklin Friday! 

Appearances: 
Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Franklin Richards, HERBIE 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5 
Franklins parents call him for dinner, but he & HERBIE have switched bodies! After flying around town they switch back to normal, but Franklin remembers HERBIEs security codes 

References: 
Short sleeve weather in New York City. 

The uniforms worn are the 'classic' FF suits. Blue suit with black gloves, boots, belts, & neck-areas. Blue 4 on the chest on a white circle. 

4th story: Bouncing Baby Boy! 

Appearances: 
Mr. Fantastic, Franklin Richards, HERBIE 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5 
After being denied a trampoline for the roof of the Baxter Building, Franklin uses a molecular density recalibrator to simulate bouncing. He accidentally bounces of the roof and past the White House, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the St. Louis Arch, Mt. Rushmore, and ends up at the Grand Canyon. With the device broken, Franklin has to ride HERBIE to get home. 

References: 
Same FF uniform as above. 

5th story: Comic Book Free-For-All! 

Appearances: 
Invisible Woman, Franklin Richards, HERBIE 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5 
To get Franklin to stop playing so many video games, Mrs. Richards gives Franklin the comic book Protectors of Peace to read. Franklin uses a machine to bring the characters to life, and when its over he let his mom know that it was more exciting than video games. 

References: 
Same FF uniform as above. 

6th story: HERBIEs Day Off 

Appearances: 
HERBIE, Franklin Richards, the Mayor of New York City 

Synopsis: 
Pg1 
Franklins at camp, so its HERBIEs day off. He spends the day getting buffed, playing video games, getting a tan, saving the city from aliens and receiving the key to the city from the mayor. When Franklin returns home early, HERBIE sadly glances at his key to the city. 

References: 
Its Sunday the 19th, in a summer month where the first is on a Tuesday, following a month that ends on the 30th. All in one day.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 17, 2007 9:59 pm 
By Paul Boucier
Director

Regarding story #6, it's a reprint of a story that was first published in April 2006 in MARVEL PREVIEWS #32. The day of the week must be Saturday, not Sunday, as it's the last day on the right. I was busy placing the other stories at various spots during the summer of Year 22 when I discovered that Year 22 coincidentally includes a 19th of the month that's on a Saturday, which is in July, and that coresponds to a summer month following a month with 30 days. So I moved M/PREV 32. 

These Franklin stories end up appearing here and there on the calendar, and it doesn't appear that these Franklin comics, or even the stories within each issue, occur in chronological order anyway. 

And FF costumes don't seem to be reliable clues about placement these days. The foursome appear to have donned a variety of them in different titles during the last few years.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 17, 2007 10:24 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Sounds good to me!

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 17, 2007 10:45 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Regarding story #6, it's a reprint of a story that was first published in April 2006 in MARVEL PREVIEWS #32. The day of the week must be Saturday, not Sunday, as it's the last day on the right.
<<<

Am I the only one who finds MTWTFSS calendars far, far more common than SMTWTFS calendars?


Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
These Franklin stories end up appearing here and there on the calendar, and it doesn't appear that these Franklin comics, or even the stories within each issue, occur in chronological order anyway.
<<<

Well, straight off: 
"Squid Kid!" (SSS) is sequelled in "Ocean-Ape Escape!" (HF), including footnote. 
"Hamster Havoc!" (HF) sees a sequel in "Rodent's Revenge" (MM). Again, footnoted.

			*	*	*

Aug 17, 2007 10:52 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Somebody wrote:
>>>
Am I the only one who finds MTWTFSS calendars far, far more common than SMTWTFS calendars? 
<<<

Believe it or not, it's difficult to find a MTWTFSS calendar in the states. I know it sounds ridiculous, Saturday & Sunday are the weekend, so why would Sunday start the week... 

Don't get me started. 

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 12:05 pm 
By jephyork
Director

Story #5, "Comic Book Free-For-All!", first saw print as the second story in the 2006 Free Comic Book Day offering, "X-Men / Runaways". 

And, if I'm not mistaken, there's some uncredited work by Erik Larsen there...  

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 33

Subject: Wolverine: Origins 16

Aug 18, 2007 3:52 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Wolverine: Origins #16 

Appearances: 
Wolverine, Captain America-FB, Black Widow-FB, Seraph-FB, Baron Strucker-FB, Major Ivan Petrovitch-FB. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg3 
Logan visits the Captain America Memorial and starts to drink. 
Pg4-FB 
Duplicated from Uncanny X-Men 268 (5:3)-FB. No new information. 
Pg5-FB 
Duplicated from Uncanny X-Men 268 (9-11)-FB. No new information. 
Pg6pn1-pg6pn3-FB 
Duplicated from Uncanny X-Men 268 (11)-FB. No new information. 
Pg6pn4-pg7pn4-FB: between UX 268 (11:5)-FB & UX 268 (11:6)-FB 
Logan explains the he bumped into Captain America on purpose, and he, Cap, & Ivan chat while Seraph mingles and Baron Strucker prepares to leave. 
Pg7pn5(of 5)-FB 
Duplicated from Uncanny X-Men 268 (11:7)-FB. No new information. 
Pg8pn1-pg8pn4-FB-FB 
Duplicated from Wolverine: Origins 9-FB 
Pg8pn5(of 5)-FB: after UX 268 (11:7)-FB 
Logan suggests they rescue Natasha Romanoff. 
Pg9-FB 
Duplicated from Uncanny X-Men 268 (14)-FB. No new information. 
Pg10-pg12-FB: between UX 268 (14)-FB & UX 268 (15)-FB 
Logan attacks the driver and covers Natasha but she shoots him in the chest. 
Pg13 
Logan has another drink at the Captain America Memorial. 
Pg14-pg15-FB: before UX 268 (17)-FB 
Logan goes back to Seraphs where she tells him that Natasha is working with them to assassinate the head of the Hand. 
Pg16pn1-pg16pn3-FB: before UX 268 (20)-FB 
Logan approaches the ceremony as Natasha prepares to use the sword shes been given. 
Pg16pn4-FB: between UX 268 (20:4)-FB & UX 268 (20:5)-FB 
Logan decapitates the head of the Hand. 
Pg16pn5(of 5) 
Logan takes a drink at the Captain America Memorial. 
Pg17-pg19-FB: between UX 268 (21)-FB & UX 268 (22)-FB 
A bunch of Hand ninjas are killed, and Seraph swings by and picks everybody up to go to the airport. 
Pg20-FB 
Duplicated from UX 268 (22)-FB. No new information. 
Pg21-FB: after UX 268-FB 
Logan & Seraph discuss Captain America, the possibility of getting him to work for the same people Logan works for, and if not, see if the process that made him can be duplicated, and if not, Logan is to kill him. 
Pg22 
Logan takes another drink at the Captain America Memorial. 

References: 
Caps been assassinated, the funerals come and gone, and Logan is at the memorial after hours by himself. Drinking. And thats it. 

Wolverine: Origins 9-FB detailed Logan training a young Black Widow which I had placed sometime after WWII. This issue tells us differently, which causes some problems. 

Logan mentions in W: O 9-FB that W: O 9-FB happens after he was picked up in Jasmine Falls, which was supposed to be a reference to W3 38-FB & W3 40-FB.(he mentions that he didn't remember Itsu, his wife) The problem is, Itsu was killed by the Winter Soldier. Bucky didn't become active as the Winter Soldier until the '50s, so there's no way that the Winter Soldier could have killed Itsu before Wolverine trains a young Black Widow, which is suppose to happen before UX 268-FB. 

However, Wolverine did stay at Jasmine Falls after his time with LL&L. L: PW 1's first nine pages show a mission with LL&L starting in Jasmine Falls, and then 'years later' he's there again, which is where W3 38-FB & W3 40-FB pick up from with the Winter Soldier. I have to fudge the reference a bit, and pretend that Logan is referrring to L: PW 1 (1-9) in W: O 9-FB, and he's mixing up when he married Itsu. There is no way that the Winter Soldier could have killed Itsu before he was even Bucky... The Black Widow time-line is the stronger reference here, so Ill suggest moving W: O 9-FB.(and L: PW 1 (1-9) to match) 

They were nice enough to include a reprint of Uncanny 268 so I wouldn't have to dig out my copy... and to show how much was swiped. How nice! 

Some placement suggestions! 

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 4/4 
YOUNG ALLIES 1 
TOS 66/2-FB 
TOS 66/2 
TOS 67/2 
TOS 68/2 
UX 268 (1-5)-FB (08/41) 
UX 268 (9-11:5)-FB 
*W: O 16 (6:4-7:4)-FB 
UX 268 (11:6-11:7)-FB 
*W: O 16 (8:5)-FB 
UX 268 (14)-FB 
*W: O 16 (10-12)-FB 
UX 268 (15)-FB 
*W: O 16 (16:1-16:3)-FB 
UX 268 (20-21)-FB 
*W: O 16 (17-19)-FB 
UX 268 (22)-FB 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 5/3 
 

BLACK WIDOW/NATASHA ROMANOVA 
**W: O 9-FB <-- move to here 
DD 88 (8:4 - 10:2a)-FB 
M/FAN 10 (7:2)-FB 
DD 88 (10:2b - 10:2c)-FB 
A 44-FB 
DD 88 (10:2d)-FB 
UX 268 (14)-FB 
*W: O 16 (10-12)-FB 
UX 268 (15)-FB 
UX 268 (17)-FB 
*W: O 16 (16:1-16:3)-FB 
UX 268 (20:1-20:4)-FB 
*W: O 16 (16:4)-FB 
UX 268 (20:5-21)-FB 
*W: O 16 (17-19)-FB 
UX 268 (22)-FB 
**W: O 9-FB <-- move from here 
W2 -1 
 

SERAPH 
W2 126 (6:2)-FB 
W2 126 (8)-FB 
W: O @1 (4-21)-FB 
{UX 268 (9-11:5)-FB} (08/41) 
*W: O 16 (6:4-7:4)-FB 
UX 268 (11:6-11:7)-FB 
*W: O 16 (14-15)-FB 
*W: O 16 (17-19)-FB 
UX 268 (22)-FB 
*W: O 16 (21)-FB 
W: O @1 (22)-FB 
W2 126 (6:4)-FB 

BARON STRUCKER/WOLFGANG VON STRUCKER 
 
XFOR 64 (1941) 
UX 268 (9-11:5)-FB (08/41) 
*W: O 16 (6:4-7:4)-FB 
UX 268 (11:6-11:7)-FB 
UX 268 (15)-FB 
*W: O 16 (16:1-16:3)-FB 
UX 268 (20-21)-FB 
{SGTF 5} 
SGTF 9 
 

PETROVITCH, IVAN 
DD 88-FB 
UX 268 (1-5)-FB (08/41) 
UX 268 (9-11:5)-FB 
*W: O 16 (6:4-7:4)-FB 
UX 268 (11:6-11:7)-FB 
*W: O 16 (8:5)-FB 
UX 268 (14)-FB 
*W: O 16 (10-12)-FB 
UX 268 (15)-FB 
*W: O 16 (16:1-16:3)-FB 
UX 268 (20-21)-FB 
*W: O 16 (17-19)-FB 
UX 268 (22)-FB 
CHAMP 10-FB 
{AA2 1/2} 

WOLVERINE/LOGAN/JAMES HOWLETT 
 
W2 113-FB 
W2 126 (8)-FB 
W: O @1-FB (1932) 
W3 52-FB 
W3 53-FB 
W2 5-FB 
UX 257-FB 
BLADE3 5-FB 
X: TF 2 (1936) 
X: TF 3 (1936) 
L: PW (1-9) 
**W: O 9-FB <-- move to here 
W2 106-FB 
UX 268 (1-5)-FB (08/41) 
UX 268 (9-11:5)-FB 
*W: O 16 (6:4-7:4)-FB 
UX 268 (11:6-11:7)-FB 
*W: O 16 (8:5)-FB 
UX 268 (14)-FB 
*W: O 16 (10-12)-FB 
UX 268 (15)-FB 
*W: O 16 (14-15)-FB 
UX 268 (17)-FB 
*W: O 16 (16:1-16:3)-FB 
UX 268 (20:1-20:4)-FB 
*W: O 16 (16:4)-FB 
UX 268 (20:5-21)-FB 
*W: O 16 (17-19)-FB 
UX 268 (22)-FB 
*W: O 16 (21)-FB 
W3 32 (05/42) 
W3 54 (1-5)-FB (1942) 
IHM: MMH 1-FB (1943) 
W2 34 (8:2-8:3)-FB, (13:3-14)-FB, (21)-FB (06/06/44) 
W2 78-FB (06/06/44) 
W2 103-FB 
W2 169-FB 
W3 40 (2-6)-FB 
L: PW (10-49)-FB 
W3 40 (7-14)-FB 
W3 40 (16-18)-FB 
W3 38 (11-13)-FB 
W3 40 (19:6-20:2)-FB 
W3 38 (14-18)-FB 
**W: O 9-FB <-- move from here 
W2 65-FB 
W2 47-FB 
W3 50 (15-16)-FB 
W: O 5 (11)-FB 


Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 34

Subject: Blade MAX 1-6

Aug 16, 2007 4:33 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Blade MAX (vol7) #1 
W: Christopher Hinz 
D: Steve Pugh 
Published: May, 2002 

Appearances: 
Blade(Eric Brooks), Susan Vendermeer, Rosa Belinski, Cesar Belinski, Rowkis. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg23 
Blade kills a bunch of vampires, then goes to Rosa Belinskis dry cleaning business to give her a present and to decipher it.(its a book) She tells him to visit a woman named Susan who had a vampire encounter earlier in the issue. After he visits her he goes to the park where hes spied on by Rowkis. Meanwhile, government agents study vampires. 

Blade MAX (vol7) #2 
W: Christopher Hinz 
D: Steve Pugh 
Published: June, 2002 

Appearances: 
Blade(Eric Brooks), Susan Vendermeer, Rosa Belinski, Cesar Belinski, Frederico Valencia, Bitsy, Rowkis, Queen Cilla, Fofo, Yathalea Marcoule. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22 
Blade kills a bunch of vampires while spied on by Rowkis. Later, government agents question other vampires. Rosa & Cesar Belinski let Blade know what theyve discovered from the book he gave them. Meanwhile, Queen Cilla eats someone and yells at Rowkis. Later, Blade gets some gadgets from Fofo, and discovers that Susan is following him, so he trains her a bit in killing vampires. Meanwhile, government agents plan to kill Blade. Later, Blade goes to the cemetery and chats with his girlfriends ghost.(Yathalea Marcoule) 

References: 
Theres a FlashBack to 1490 for Frederico Valencia, not that it matters. Im sure he wont get a listing. 

Blade MAX (vol7) #3 
W: Christopher Hinz 
D: Steve Pugh 
Published: July, 2002 

Appearances: 
Blade(Eric Brooks), Susan Vendermeer, Frederico Valencia, Bitsy, Fofo, Yathalea Marcoule-FB. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg16pn3 
Fofo is attacked by vampires.(Valencia & Bitsy) Meanwhile, Blade infiltrates a vampires safehouse and torches it. Meanwhile, government agents research vampires. Later, Blade goes out on a date with Susan. 
Pg16pn4-pg18pn5-FB: before the start of this series 
Some vampires trick Blade into killing his girlfriend, Yathalea. 
Pg18pn6-pg19 
Blade gets a phone call that Fofo is in the hospital. 
Pg20-FB 
Bitsy wounds Fofo and lets him escape bait for Blade. 
Pg21-pg22 
Blade sees through the trap and leaves the hospital, but is attacked and captured by vampires. 

References: 
This issue gives Blades birthdate as October 24, 1929. 

Blade MAX (vol7) #4 
W: Christopher Hinz 
D: Steve Pugh 
Published: August, 2002 

Appearances: 
Blade(Eric Brooks), Rosa Belinski, Cesar Belinski, Frederico Valencia, Bitsy, Rowkis, Queen Cilla. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22 
Valencia interrogates the captured Blade while Bitsy watches. Blade breaks free and kills them. When he makes it outside he finds governments agents who were waiting to kill him, tied up. Hes attacked by Rowkis, who then lets him go. Later, Blade wakes up at Rosas place. Meanwhile, Rowkis brings the government agents to Queen Cilla. Later, Blade asks another vampire group for information and they come up with a plan to stop Queen Cilla. 

Blade MAX (vol7) #5 
W: Christopher Hinz 
W: Steve Pugh 
Published: September, 2002 

Appearances: 
Blade(Eric Brooks), Susan Vendermeer, Rosa Belinski, Cesar Belinski, Fofo, Rowkis, Queen Cilla. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22 
Susan is captured by Rowkis, so Blade goes to save her. When he arrives at the secret hideout, hes tricked by Queen Cilla into having sex with her. Blade then rescues the government agents and kills Rowkis but Queen Cilla gets away. Later, he regroups with Roas, Cesar, & Fofo. 

Blade MAX (vol7) #6 
W: Christopher Hinz 
D: Homs 
Published: October, 2002 

Appearances: 
Blade(Eric Brooks), Rosa Belinski. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5pn3 
Rosa has set up a job for Blade, and at the meeting hes asked to dig up a dead husband. 
Pg5pn4-pg5pn6-FB 
The dead husbands kid screams and claims he saw his dead father. 
Pg6-pg8pn2 
Blade listens to the widows story. 
Pg8pn3-pg9pn4-FB 
The woman and her husband return home from a date when theyre attacked by a vampire. The husband dies later at the hospital. 
Pg9pn5-pg22 
Blade goes to the cemetery and digs up the husbands grave, but theres no body inside. They go back to the widows house and the husband eventually shows up, hes now a vampire. Blade kills him and leaves. Later, the widow meets with Rosa and attends a Vampire Victims Anonymous meeting. 

References: 
No mention of Queen Cilla, apparently shes still out there carrying Blades illegitimate love child. 

Some placement suggestions! 

BLADE/ERIC BROOKS 
 
PPSM2 8 
*BLADE7 3-FB
*BLADE7 1
*BLADE7 2
*BLADE7 3
*BLADE7 4
*BLADE7 5
*BLADE7 6 
TOD4 1 


Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 16, 2007 11:28 pm 
By JLH

Uhh... wasn't I assigned to this on Russ' list?

			*	*	*

Aug 16, 2007 11:28 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Sorry about that. You weren't listed on the Closing the Gap list, but doing a quick search showed me that you called this out in the 'Blade rising from the dead' analysis thread. Totally missed that. 

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 16, 2007 11:38 pm 
By JLH

That's fine. The MAX book wasn't exactly utterly critical to Blade's chronology anyway. If only we had people fighting over who gets to do the analysis for the "Daughters of the Dragon" mini, then Paul would get some more calendar work done! 

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 5:20 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Hey, Col. I'm not getting much of a sense of the passage of time in this series. It seems like an awful lot to occur over one night. Here's my reformatted version. Please make suggestions about how this might be improved, including filling in the "x"s in the page/panel notations for issue #3. Thanks much! 


BLADE v7 #3  FB (16p4-18p5) 
One day. Some vampires trick Blade into killing his girlfriend, Yathalea Marcoule. 

BLADE v7 #6  FB (8p3-9p4) 
One day. The woman and her husband return home from a date when theyre attacked by a vampire. The husband dies later at the hospital. 

BLADE v7 #6  FB (5p4-5p6) 
One day. The dead husbands kid screams and claims he saw his dead father. 

BLADE v7 #1 
One day, after BLADE7 3-FB (16-18). Blade kills a bunch of vampires, then goes to Rosa Belinskis dry cleaning business to give her a book. She tells him to visit a woman named Susan who had a vampire encounter. After he visits her he goes to the park where Rowkis spies on him. Meanwhile, government agents study vampires. 
BLADE v7 #2 
The same night as BLADE7 1. Rowkis spies Blade killing a bunch of vampires. Later, government agents question other vampires. Rosa and Cesar Belinski let Blade know what theyve discovered from the book he gave them. Meanwhile, Queen Cilla eats someone and yells at Rowkis. Later, Blade gets some gadgets from Fofo and discovers that Susan is following him, so he trains her a bit in killing vampires. Meanwhile, government agents plan to kill Blade. Later, Blade goes to the cemetery and chats with the ghost of Yathalea. 
BLADE v7 #3 (1-x) 
The same night as BLADE7 2. Fofo is attacked by vampires Valencia and Bitsy. 
BLADE v7 #3  FB (20) 
The same night as BLADE7 3 (1-x). Bitsy wounds Fofo and lets him escape as bait for Blade. 
BLADE v7 #3 (x-22) 
The same night as BLADE7 3-FB (20). Blade infiltrates a vampires safehouse and torches it. Meanwhile, government agents research vampires. Later, Blade goes out on a date with Susan. Blade gets a phone call that Fofo is in the hospital. Blade sees through the trap and leaves the hospital, but is attacked and captured by vampires. 
BLADE v7 #4 
The same night as BLADE7 3 (x-22). Valencia interrogates the captured Blade while Bitsy watches. Blade breaks free and kills them. When he makes it outside he finds governments agents who were waiting to kill him tied up. Hes attacked by Rowkis, who then lets him go. Later, Blade wakes up at Rosas place. Meanwhile, Rowkis brings the government agents to Queen Cilla. Later, Blade asks another vampire group for information and they come up with a plan to stop Queen Cilla. 
BLADE v7 #5 
The same night as BLADE7 4. Susan is captured by Rowkis and Blade goes to save her. When he arrives at the secret hideout, hes tricked by Queen Cilla into having sex with her. Blade then rescues the government agents and kills Rowkis, but Queen Cilla gets away. Later, he regroups with Roas, Cesar, and Fofo. 
BLADE v7 #6 
The same night as BLADE7 5. Rosa has set up a job for Blade, and at the meeting hes asked to dig up a dead husband. Blade listens to the widows story. Blade goes to the cemetery and digs up the husbands grave, but theres no body inside. They go back to the widows house and the husband eventually shows up as a vampire. Blade kills him and leaves. Later, the widow meets with Rosa and attends a Vampire Victims Anonymous meeting.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 7:46 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

BLADE v7 #2  FB (1p1) 
August 2, 1492. Federico Valencia is bitten by a vampire. 

BLADE v7 #2  FB (1p2) 
August 3, 1492. The Nina, Pinta, & Santa Maria set sail for the New World. 

BLADE v7 #3  FB (1p3) 
500 years after BLADE v7 #2  FB (1p2). Federico Valencia mails himself to America. 

BLADE v7 #3  FB (16p4-18p5) 
One day. Some vampires trick Blade into killing his girlfriend, Yathalea Marcoule. 

BLADE v7 #6  FB (8p3-9p4) 
One day. The woman and her husband return home from a date when theyre attacked by a vampire. The husband dies later at the hospital. 

BLADE v7 #6  FB (5p4-5p6) 
One day. The dead husbands kid screams and claims he saw his dead father. 

BLADE v7 #1 
One day, after BLADE7 3-FB (16-18). A woman named Susan is attacked by vampires. Elsewhere, Blade kills a bunch of vampires, then goes to Rosa Belinskis dry cleaning business to give her a book. She tells him to visit a woman named Susan who had a vampire encounter. After he visits her he goes to the park where Rowkis spies on him. Meanwhile, government agents study vampires. Full moon. 

BLADE v7 #2 (1p4-7) 
One night. Rowkis spies Blade killing a bunch of vampires. 

BLADE v7 #2 (8-22) 
The day after BLADE v7 2 (1p3-7). Government agents question other vampires. Rosa and Cesar Belinski let Blade know what theyve discovered from the book he gave them. Meanwhile, Queen Cilla eats someone and yells at Rowkis. Later, Blade gets some gadgets from Fofo and discovers that Susan is following him, so he trains her a bit in killing vampires. Meanwhile, government agents plan to kill Blade. Later, Blade goes to the cemetery and chats with the ghost of Yathalea. 

BLADE v7 #3 (1-3) 
One night. Fofo is attacked by vampires Valencia and Bitsy. 

BLADE v7 #3  FB (20) 
The same night as BLADE7 3 (1-3). Bitsy wounds Fofo and lets him escape as bait for Blade. 

BLADE v7 #3 (4-22) 
The day after BLADE7 3-FB (20). Blade infiltrates a vampires safehouse and torches it. Meanwhile, government agents research vampires. Later, Blade goes out on a date with Susan. Blade gets a phone call that Fofo is in the hospital. Blade sees through the trap and leaves the hospital, but is attacked and captured by vampires. 

BLADE v7 #4 (1-13) 
The same night as BLADE7 3 (4-22). Valencia interrogates the captured Blade while Bitsy watches. Blade breaks free and kills them. When he makes it outside he finds governments agents who were waiting to kill him tied up. Hes attacked by Rowkis, who then lets him go. 

BLADE v7 #4 (14-22) 
The day after BLADE7 4 (1-13). Blade wakes up at Rosas place. Meanwhile, Rowkis brings the government agents to Queen Cilla. Later, Blade asks another vampire group for information and they come up with a plan to stop Queen Cilla. 

BLADE v7 #5 
The same night as BLADE7 4 (14-22). Susan is captured by Rowkis and Blade goes to save her. When he arrives at the secret hideout, hes tricked by Queen Cilla into having sex with her. Blade then rescues the government agents and kills Rowkis, but Queen Cilla gets away. Later, he regroups with Rosa, Cesar, and Fofo. 

BLADE v7 #6 (1-20) 
One day. Rosa has set up a job for Blade, and at the meeting hes asked to dig up a dead husband. Blade listens to the widows story. Blade goes to the cemetery and digs up the husbands grave, but theres no body inside. They go back to the widows house and the husband eventually shows up as a vampire. Blade kills him and leaves. 

BLADE v7 #6 (21-22) 
One day, the widow meets with Rosa and attends a Vampire Victims Anonymous meeting. 
(note: this is probably a week or two after pg20) 

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 8:22 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks, Col! 

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 35

Subject: Franklin Richards: World Be Warned

Aug 17, 2007 3:15 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Franklin Richards: World Be Warned #1 
Published: August, 2007 

1st story: Gravity Depravity! 

Appearances: 
Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Thing, Human Torch, Franklin Richards, HERBIE, Spider-Man 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5 
Franklin watches as the Fantastic Four thank Spider-Man for his help in saving the day. Impressed by Spider-Man, Franklin grabs a device out of Reeds lab that reverses gravity. As Franklin walks on the ceiling the device overloads and creates a black hole in his bed room. It shorts out and destroys itself just before his mom walks in. 

References: 
Spider-Man is in his classic Red & Blues and on friendly terms with the team. Blue & Black FF suits, with blue 4s on white circles. 

2nd story: Bully Breakdown! 

Appearances: 
Franklin Richards, HERBIE, Principal VanDerHoofe 

Synopsis: 
Pg1 
Franklin returns home from school and grabs a Universal Force Field Generator so he wont get beaten up by a bully tomorrow. 
Pg2-pg5: next day 
Franklin is attacked by a bully at school, but his force field bounces him around everywhere, until the bully is caught by the principal. 

References: 
Two days, both school days. 

3rd story: Monkey Talk! 

Appearances: 
Franklin Richards, HERBIE, Mr. Fantastic 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5 
Franklin takes a Universal Translator to the zoo to talk to the animals and some monkeys talk him into letting them out of their cage. The monkeys set all the other animals free and cause a stampede. When Franklin returns home, Mr. Fantastic lets HERBIE know that the Fantastic Four are leaving for a bit to round up some escaped zoo animals. 

References: 
Standard Franklin Richards FF uniform on Mr. Fantastic. 

4th story: Build a Better Bot! 

Appearances: 
Mr. Fantastic, Franklin Richards, HERBIE, HUMPHRIES 

Synopsis: 
Pg1 
Mr. Fantastic is finishing HERBIEs upgrades when Franklin asks if he can make HERBIE more fun. Mr. Fantastic thinks on it 
Pg2-pg5: next day 
Mr. Fantastic has built a completely new robot: HUMPHRIES, which relegates HERBIE to housekeeping mode full time. After discovering that HUMPHRIES will actually make him do his work, Franklin destroys it. 

References: 
Standard Franklin Richards FF uniform on Mr. Fantastic. 

HUMPHRIES stands for Human User Multi-Purpose Handling Robot & Interactive Entertainment System. 

5th story: Frank Smash! 

Appearances: 
Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Franklin Richards, HERBIE, Hulk 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5 
Mr. Fantastic is running some tests on the Hulk. Franklin walks by and grabs a candy bar, but it was going to be the Hulks reward for sitting still. When the Hulk doesnt get his prize he starts tearing up the place. Franklin calms him down with a pile of candy bars. 

References: 
Standard Franklin Richards FF uniform on Mr. Fantastic & Invisible Woman. 

Its the child-like Hulk, obviously. 

Green grass & leaves in New York City.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 17, 2007 7:08 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Hey, Col! Thanks for the surprise Franklin Richards analyses!  

One question (so far): what is a "standard Franklin Richards FF uniform?"

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 17, 2007 2:27 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

No problem. 

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
what is a "standard Franklin Richards FF uniform?"
<<<

It's the same uniforms that the FF are wearing in all the Franklin Richards one-shots. I just got tired of typing out "Blue suit with black gloves, boots, belts, & neck-areas. Blue 4 on the chest on a white circle" is all. 

And there may be another surprise or two over the weekend. Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 17, 2007 2:36 pm 
By Somebody
Director

The uniform in question, to save trouble, can be seen in these Happy Franksgiving and March Madness (complete story) "first looks".

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 4:50 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Franklin watches as the Fantastic Four thank Spider-Man for his help in saving the day. 

Could this be a wrap-up to SPIDER-MAN AND THE FANTASTIC FOUR #4, in which Spidey teams up with the FF and saves the day? Franklin didn't appear in SM&FF 4, but I wonder if what's shown in FR:WBW 1 shows a scene that could occur right after (well, actually before Peter gets back to M.J. at the end of SM&FF 4).

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 5:03 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

That could work, or they could be thanking Spider-Man for some unseen 'save the day' adventure. I kind of like placing it after Spider-Man/Fantastic Four, though.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 8:44 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

OK. I'll place the first story in World Be Warned between the last two pages of SM&FF 4. The costumes of everyone involved seem to be consistent, too. 

About the fifth story in World Be Warned...any Hulk-o-philes care to place this one?Paul B.

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 9:57 am 
By Somebody
Director

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
About the fifth story in World Be Warned...any Hulk-o-philes care to place this one?
<<<

Immediately after SENTRY2 8, and say the Sentry's effect on Hulk didn't wear off straight away to have him there, and for him to be in "Hulk not use pronouns" mode.

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 5:24 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

I like that. A lot.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 36

Subject: Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. 7-12!

Aug 19, 2007 7:55 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #7 
Published: September, 2006 

Appearances: 
Elsa Bloodstone, the Captain, Monica Rambeau(Photon), Aaron Stack(X-51, Machine Man), Tabitha Tabby Smith(Boomer), Gen. Dirk Anger, Dread Rorkannu. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg7 
A Beyond Corporation Human Resources representative summons Dread Rorkannu, Lord of the Dank Dimension, prodigal scion of Faltine, who appears. The two strike up a deal to rent out some Mindless Ones in exchange for $100.00 & the Suicide Girls. Meanwhile, Nextwave chills out while flying in their busted up Shockwave Rider. Back in Colorado, Mindless Ones begin to pour into the streets. 
Pg8-pg22: next day, three days after end of last issue 
Gen. Anger is notified that the Beyond Corporation has gone ahead with the magic deal without them, and that Nextwave is on their way to Colorado. Later, Nextwave arrives and battles the Mindless Ones. 

References: 
If pg8 is three days after the end of last issue, then pg1 is two days after the end of last issue. 

Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #8 
Published: October, 2006 

Appearances: 
Elsa Bloodstone, the Captain, Monica Rambeau(Photon), Aaron Stack(X-51, Machine Man), Tabitha Tabby Smith(Boomer), Gen. Dirk Anger, Dread Rorkannu, Ulysses Bloodstone-FB. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg2pn3(of 4): same day as end of last issue 
Nextwave regroups and prepare to fight more Mindless ones. 
Pg2pn4-pg3-FB 
A young Elsa Bloodstone is taught about different monsters. 
Pg4-pg6 
Nextwave spreads out to go Mindless Ones hunting. 
Pg7pn1-pg7pn4(of 5)-FB 
Ulysses Bloodstone begins an infant Elsas training in the ways of fighting monsters. 
Pg7pn5-pg10pn3 
Elsa destroys some Mindless Ones. 
Pg10pn4-pg10pn5(of 5)-FB 
Ulysses Bloodstone continues to train an infant Elsa in monster fighting. 
Pg11-pg21 
Dread Rorkannu summons more Mindless Ones. Meanwhile, Nextwave continues to destroy them. The Captain happens upon the Dread Rorkannu and beats the holy hell out of him with a toilet brush. 
Pg22: next day 
With all of the Mindless Ones now destroyed, Nextwave heads for the Shockwave Rider. 

References: 
Elsa is probably in her early teens in NW: AOH 8 (2:3-3)-FB 

Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #9 
Published: November, 2006 

Appearances: 
Elsa Bloodstone, the Captain, Monica Rambeau(Photon), Aaron Stack(X-51, Machine Man), Tabitha Tabby Smith(Boomer), Captain America-FB, Number None, Charlie America, Giant-Sam(Sam Parkin), Bulk(David Beiderbecke), & Forbush-Man. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg2-FB: Project Rebirth 
Now that Project Rebirth has turned him into a Super Soldier, Steve Rogers needs to hit the can. A Nazi spy attempts to retrieve his urine but is stopped by a Russian spy. 
Pg3-pg5 
Nextwave are confused; theyre in a town that, according to the Beyond Corporations marketing plan, is supposed to be attacked by dinosaurs Right Now. But instead, its completely empty. 
Pg6-pg7-FB: 7 years ago 
Sam Parkin complains about Hank Pym, and is recruited by S.I.L.E.N.T.. 
Pg8-pg11 
Nextwave decides to get out of the town when theyre approached by a floating upside down castle. In it is the head of the Beyond Corporation Number None, also Mister Sssh, Pope Omerta, and General Quiet. Together they are the core cell of S.I.L.E.N.T., and the city was a trap. 
Pg12-FB 
Forbush-Man is recruited by S.I.L.E.N.T.. 
Pg13-pg14 
Number None unleashes his superteams on Nextwave: the Surgery(Doctor Injectable, Doctor Nosexy, Doctor Meatball,& Doctor Headless) & the Vestry(the Inquisitor, Father Faith, Red Rosary, Reverend Guilt, & Abbess Horror). The Homosexuality(Sun King, the Midniteman, Polestar, & Slightly Creepy Policewoman)will be along as soon as the gay parade in San Francisco. 
Pg15-FB 
David Beiderbecke is recruited by S.I.L.E.N.T.. 
Pg16-pg22 
Number None unleashes his other superteam: the New Paramounts!(Charlie America, Giant-Sam, Bulk, & Forbush-Man) A big fight ensues. 

References: 
No mention of when the recruitment FlashBacks take place.(other than the first two, of course) 

Theres no real mention of how long its been since last issue, but probably not very long. The Series has been moving at a pretty good clip. 

All the superteams but the New Paramounts are revealed to be broccoli people, but the Beyond heads aren't.(except for Number None, he's something else. See issue twelve) I'm assuming that they're broccoli people as well. However, since the New Paramounts aren't broccoli people, and since they have recruitment/Flashbacks/origins, I guess they're eral characters. But I doubt they'll appear anywhere in the future. 

Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #10 
Published: December, 2006 

Appearances: 
Elsa Bloodstone, the Captain, Monica Rambeau(Photon), Aaron Stack(X-51, Machine Man), Tabitha Tabby Smith(Boomer), Number None, Mister Sssh, Pope Omerta, General Quiet, Forbush-Man. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: same day as last issue 
The Surgery, the Vestry, and the Homosexuality are revealed to be broccoli people, and Forbush-Man unleashes his omnistellar mind on Nextwave. Everyones minds are thrown into Forbush-Vision, forcing them to view skewed alternate realities except Tabitha. Who has no mind. After she blasts him out of the empty city Nextwave focuses on the upside-down castle. 

References: 
All in one day, same day as last issue, continued next issue. 

Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #11 
Published: January, 2007 

Appearances: 
Elsa Bloodstone, the Captain, Monica Rambeau(Photon), Aaron Stack(X-51, Machine Man), Tabitha Tabby Smith(Boomer), Gen. Dirk Anger, Number None. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: same day as last issue 
As Nextwave approaches State 51, the Beyond Corporations floating terror factory, Gen. Anger attacks from behind in the Aeromarine, crashing into them and destroying both the Shockwave Rider & the Aeromarine. Having escapes the explosions, Nextwave proceeds to the command center, beating up everything they see on the way. After beating their way through six double-page spreads, Nextwave is attacked by Number None when he impales X-51 through the chest. 

References: 
There are Elvis-MODOKs in this issue! 

Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #12 
Published: February, 2007 

Appearances: 
Elsa Bloodstone, the Captain, Monica Rambeau(Photon), Aaron Stack(X-51, Machine Man), Tabitha Tabby Smith(Boomer), Number None, Devil Dinosaur. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: same day as last issue 
Since hes a robot, getting impaled really didnt do anything to X-51. Hes still pissed, however, so he saws off Number Nones head. Since he didnt fall down they open up Number Nones chest to find a MODOK baby inside. After throwing a fit he runs away, so they follow him tot eh command center. The MODOK baby arrives first and is killed by Devil Dinosaur; the real leader of S.I.L.E.N.T.. They kick him off the city and blow him up. The End. 

References: 
Devil Dinosaur created the Beyond Corporation to kill all humans, because he hates monkeys and mammals. Apparently, he felt degraded by Moon-Boy so he killed him. If he ever shows up in the future, I guess we could say Devil Dinosaur was exaggerating. Or something. 

So roughly, Id say this series starts sometime after a year after the last time weve seen Machine Man, to give him enough space to cruise around with the Celestials. Also, it should finish up sometime before Civil War starts, so that Monica can appear at the Black Panther/Storm wedding. If this can work, then theres NO problem with X-51 showing up in Ms. Marvel in his Nextwave mode. 

And, one placement suggestion: 

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS 
... 
CA 255 (8:1)-FB 
*NW: AOH 9-FB 
CA 255 (8:4)-FB 
...

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 7:59 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
References: 
Devil Dinosaur created the Beyond Corporation to kill all humans, because he hates monkeys and mammals. Apparently, he felt degraded by Moon-Boy so he killed him. If he ever shows up in the future, I guess we could say Devil Dinosaur was exaggerating. Or something.
<<<

Already happened - DDino and Moon-Boy have turned up in Heroes for Hire. In fact, Moon-Boy's still appearing (HfH monkeynapped him, basically). 

Devil Dinosaur II.

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 8:04 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

I really need to get caught up on my reading. The last issue of HfH I read was... the Doombot issue? 


Somebody wrote:
>>>
Devil Dinosaur II.
<<<

Yeah, probably.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 37

Subject: The 50s Revival: Captain America

Aug 18, 2007 9:47 am 
By Dhall

The 50s Revival: Captain America 

Young Men 24/2  December 1953 
Characters Appearing: 
In flashback movie footage: 
Captain America III? 
Bucky II? 
Red Skull III 

In actual story: 
Red Skull III 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 


Synopsis: Red Skull shows his goons an old movie of Captain America and Bucky beating him and some other goons up. He is planning a new crime wave, in partnership with the reds. 
Meanwhile Prof. Steve Rogers (Cap IV) is teaching a class, telling the kids a brief version of Captain America Is origin. Some of the boys dont believe this story, and Bucky (really Jack Monroe) gets into a fight with them. Steve breaks it up, and offers to take Bucky into the city to buy textbooks. They hear a news report that the Red Skull has returned, and invaded the UN building. Bucky asks Steve if its time for Captain America to come back. Steve replies in the affirmative, and Bucky pulls out new costumes. 

(As seen in CA 155-FB, Cap and Bucky change into costume in an alley. Then they inject the Super Soldier serum into their veins, and after a moment of pain, yell out a battle cry, and go into action.) 

Cap and Bucky get into the building, and confront the Red Skull. Bucky tackles him, then Cap finishes him off with his shield. At school the next day, the boys apologize for not believing in Cap. 

Young Men #25/2  February 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Slade, Jim 
Executioner/ Lupa Lupoff 
Lupoff, Arnold 

Cap and Bucky see a newspaper headline, requesting their aid, and are off to Washington. Theyre sent to guard an atomic test in Nevada. In a Las Vegas hotel, two spies, Arnold and Lupa worry that if they fail in their mission to get the firing pin, the Executioner will kill them. Cap and Bucky meet Jim Slade, the designer of the pin. Slade drops a picture of his girl, whom Cap recognizes as a spy. They pursue Slade to Las Vegas. However, its too late, and Slade has already been tricked into drinking a drugged drink, and kidnapped. Bucky jumps on top of the getaway car, while other spies delay Cap. Cap manages to get the destination info out of them. Bucky confronts Arnold and Lupa, but is captured. Cap shows up, and decks Arnold. Lupa turns out to be the Executioner, and kills both Arnold, and herself. Cap, Bucky, and Slade watch the atomic test from a safe distance. 

Young Men #26/2  March 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV (also in fb) 
Bucky III (also in fb) 
Oranoff 
Standish, Doctor 
Sub-Mariner 
Human Torch 
Toro 


Synopsis: Two red spies watch a movie of Cap and Bucky tackling criminals. The doctor plans to inject Cap with a virus of evil. The Doctor throws a press conference, with the stated goal of getting the great crime fighters to come to his school, and lecture his students. Namor, Torch, and Cap all answer the call, but Doctor Standish only needs Cap, and sends the other two away. While showing Cap and Bucky around his lab, the Doctor injects Cap with his virus. Now Cap turns into a commie, and wants to go to Alaska to smash army installations. Bucky, very confused, follows Cap. Cap tears up the installation. Once They are on board the sub, Oranoff congratulates Cap. Cap calls him Comrade Rat, and he and Bucky turn on the reds. They dive of the sub, and get away. Cap reveals that the drug didnt work on him, and that he was just pretending. 

Young Men #27/2  April 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Red Skull III 

Synopsis: Cap and Bucky fight the Skull outside a Govt base, but he gets away. Cap and Bucky go undercover as soldiers, until they get a call from the secret service, to bust up a spy gang. Later they get a message to meet a contact. Their contact is an old man, who brings them to his home, but takes off a mask, and is really the Red Skull. Cap and Bucky are captured by the Skulls men, and tied to the torture racks. Cap pretends to break, and the Skull takes them out for a drive. Cap tricks him into going about 100 mph, with his lights off, then Cap and Bucky jump out of the truck. The truck crashes into a brick wall, and the Skull is apparently dead. Cap and Bucky leave to report to the FBI. 

Mens Adventures 27/2  May 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Bey, Adu 
Shika 

Synopsis: Undercover as soldiers, Cap and Bucky are in Egypt. They meet an Egyptian who spouts a lot of pro-American rhetoric, and invites them to his home. Once there they have a feast. A dancing girl taps in morse code a message for Cap and Bucky to meet her later, saying that she is in trouble. Cap sneaks out and meets the girl, who tells him she was kidnapped by Bey. He promises to contact Captain America to rescue her. In costume, Cap and Bucky rescue the girl, and ride off. They hide in Beys family tomb, where they discover a stack of red weapons. They are soon captured. Shika screams, drawing in Bey. It turns out that Shika is the red leader, not Bey, and her men soon seize him. Cap and Bucky escape and run through a tunnel, and seal it off. Then they go around to the front and, rescue Bey. Shika starts shooting, collapsing the tomb on her and her men. 

Captain America Comics 76  May 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Trucks, Shanty Sergeant 
Golden Girl II/ Betsy Ross 
Benson, Will 
Blake, Connie 

Synopis: Cap and Bucky fight Commie spies, then they rejoin the army. They run into Betsy Ross, who is accused of being a spy. Out on guard duty, Cap sees Benson, the photographer, taking pictures of tanks, in the dark. Later, looking through his photos, Betsy realizes that Benson is the spy. However, she is already in his car, off the base. Unknown to them, Cap and Bucky are riding on the roof. When they get to Bensons home, it turns out that their editor, Connie Blake is the real spy boss. Cap burns all the films, and Blake, while saving Benson to clear Betsy Ross. 

Captain America Comics 76/2  May 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Trucks, Shanty Sergeant 
Golden Girl II/ Betsy Ross 


Synopsis: This story takes place in an unnamed European country between the free world and the Iron Curtain. Two locals see Cap, and think hes an oaf, and overpower him. He goes along to see what theyre up to. The Secretary of War wishes him to burn down the U.S. embassy. Instead of doing that, he pours the gasoline on the local reds. Then he and Bucky go into action. Cap brings the captured men to see the secretary. He first tries to deny all knowledge, then takes the U.S .Ambassador hostage. Cap rescues him with his shield. 

Captain America Comics 76/4  May 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 

Synopsis: Stationed in the Indo-China theatre, Cap is needed. Americans are vanishing, then showing up on the radio spouting red propaganda. Cap and Bucky parachute into enemy territory. They burst into an enemy facility, which has drugged up Americans reading propaganda for the radio. Cap pretends that hes come to join the reds. The Reds give him the freedom of the camp. Cap replaces the drugs with water, and then broadcasts that the previous messages were fakes. Then he fights the reds, and rescues the Americans. Remembers  Real Americans Never turn Red! 

Young Men 28/2  June 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Captain Saunders 
Crane 


Synopsis: Cap and Bucky are on the trail of smugglers of dope from Red China, when they are knocked unconscious by a falling box. They fall into a cargo area on a freighter. In the morning, the crew board, set off, then find Cap and Bucky, and take them to the Captain. They get into a fight with the first mate, Crane, who wants to take over the ship. Captain Saunders is old, and feeble, and this is to be his last voyage. They overhear that the cargo is dope, bound for South Africa. When it comes time to unload, they naturally get involved, and Crane shoots at Cap, who blocks with his shield, then decks him. 
Then they go with the Captain to find those people who are supposed to receive the shipment, and surprise, Captain Saunders is in on it, and isnt so old and feeble. The Captain points a gun at Bucky, but is shot by Crane, and the sailors, who have followed the trail that Cap left for them. It turns out Crane was in on Caps plan the whole time. 

Mens Adventures 28/2  July 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Potter, Tim PFC 
Kag 
Commissar Kee-Sai 

Synopsis: The order has gone out to all red agents  Kill Captain America! No vacations! 
Cap and Bucky are in Korea, escorting a group of released American POWs. All are happy, except one who strangely isnt, Private First Class Tim Potter. Most of the fighting is over, but there are a few die hard red guerillas who attack the convey. Cap, as a soldier, offers to hold them back. After everyone else leaves, Cap and Bucky change into costumes, and fight the reds. The Reds take them prisoner. I Kag the Guerilla, will not kill you yet. PFC Potter has also been captured. Kag brings them before the Commissar, Tim asks for a private word with him. Afterwards at the execution, Tim tells the Commissar to wait, and make sure this is the real Captain America, by having him fight the strongest man he has. While Cap and Bucky fight the ten strongest men, Tim grabs a machine gun, and shoots the Commissar. The reds run into an ammo dump, which Cap explodes. Kag attacks Cap from behind,m but Cap hits him, and Kag falls into the fire. Tim, Cap and Bucky escape. 

Captain America Comics 77  July 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Mr. Collins 

Synopsis: After smashing another gang of commie spies, Cap and Bucky jump onto a rooftop, where through a window they hear a blind boy wishing Captain America would come help him. They open up the skylight and jump down to meet him. His dad is in trouble from commies. Cap and Bucky go outside and see a pair of guards watching the building. They overhear a plan to kill the father, whether or not he delivers. Bucky heads back to the boy, Cap heads to the shipyards, where the father works. The father is being forced to steal a mini atomic engine from the shipyard. Cap goes in through a window, and watches Collins hesitate after opening the safe. Thats all Cap needed to help, he goes in and introduces himself. Cap gets Collins coat, and uses it as a disguise and goes with the commies, who go to the building where the kid is. When the kid comes out, its really Bucky in disguise, and he and Cap come out fighting. The real kid comes out, and blunders around the battle. The lead goon tries to grab him, but when Cap hits him, ends up shooting at the kid. Luckily, the shot misses, and somehow the boy is suddenly able to see again. Bucky and Cap go off to take the goons to the police. 

Captain America Comics 77/2  July 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Officer Wing 
Lu Si 
The Man with No Face/Wing 

Synopsis: In New York Citys Chinatown, Cap and Bucky fight Chinese-American criminals, along with Officer Wing. The Red Chinese are threatening the relatives of the locals back in China. If the locals do not pay up, their relatives back in China will be killed. If they arent frightened by the threats, 
a hatchet man, known as the Man with No Face will kill them. Now officer Wing is being threatened. He has a twin brother in China, who will be killed if he doesnt aid the reds. Cap tells him to gout about his regular routine, and he and Bucky will follow to flush out the Man with No Face. Wing hears a cry, and goes down a basement to investigate, but its a setup. The Man with No Face is waiting for him. Cap and Bucky burst in, the MWNF flees, and they pursue him. After a rooftop chase they corner him, and he threatens to jump. When Cap asks why he would do that, he whips off his mask, to reveal that he is Wings twin brother. He jumps to stick it to his brother, but Cap vows that Wing will never know. 

Captain America Comics 77/4  July 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 

Synopsis: Cap has been summoned to the Pentagon. Red P.O.W.s are dying in the U.S. P.O.W. camps. 
The Reds are using this as propaganda. The generals want Cap and Bucky to take a new drug to Korea in hopes that it will stop the disease. Cap puts a fake drug on a decoy plane, and the reds blow that up. Cap and Bucky take the real plane, but go the long way across Europe. They are attacked by a plane from an aircraft carrier, but Cap takes them out, and lands in England to refuel. Over the Channel they are attacked by an armada of planes, and bail out, taking the drug with them. Theyre picked up by a French boat, taken to Paris, and given another fighter. Attacked by more planes, Cap outmaneuvers them and they all smash into mountains. Cap lands in Korea. They have to use force to inject the P.O.W.s with the life saving drug. Cap and Bucky manage to get trapped alone in the P.O.W. camp, by the non sick prisoners, who think that they poisoned their friends. Cap fight prisoners, until the drug starts working and the sick prisoners have recovered. Cap hopes that they will learn the rest of the lesson, that the United Nations are the only ones who can cure what ails themwith Freedom and Democracy! 

Captain America Comics 78  Sept. 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Electro II 
Synopsis: The Reds have created a new opponent for Cap: Electro. He is electrically charged, but must remember to be by a dynamo every 24 hours to recharge. Electro is smuggled into New York, where Cap and Bucky are part of a parade honoring business progress and achievement. Suddenly Cap spots a sign that has been changed to read Captain America must Die. He grabs a ladder and climbs up, and confronts Electro. Cap and Bucky jump off the ladder, and let Electro chase them into the business machines building, where Electro stumbles into a giant typewriter. Electro hits Bucky with a live wire, and threatens to kill him. Electro backs towards a dynamo, and Cap realizes that Electro is low on power. Cap turns on a waterfall, and this grounds the power, killing Electro. 

Note: that this is the second Electro of the Golden Age, the first one appearing in Marvel Mystery Comics 4-19. This pushes the Spider-Man foe Electro to Electro III. 


Captain America Comics 78/2  Sept. 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 

Synopsis: In Korea, Cap and Bucky are on guard duty, while the peace conference continues. They follow a Korean who does not stop as ordered. He shoots at Bucky, but misses. Bucky grabs a green dragon emblem from him, before the man runs off. The man has stolen a list of reformed Chinese Soldiers who have defected and gone over to the U.N. Side. Cap and Bucky must sneak into China to get the list back. Since its in the middle of a festival there, they can walk around in costume. They use the legend of the Green Dragon against the Red Chinese, by turning a green dragon parade float against them. Cap manages to get the list back. It turns out that Bucky wasnt controlling the dragon, and it really did come to life and attack the reds. 

Captain America Comics 78/4  Sept. 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain America IV 
Bucky III 
Blayne, Chuck 

Synopsis: America has a new idol, Chuck Blayne. Secretly, he is a Red! He appears at the U.N> building, and announces that hes planted a bomb. Cap and Bucky, who were on their way to see Blayne, spring into action to find the bomb. Cap finds the bomb, but realizes that its all for nothing, unless he can show America that Blayne is a commie. He drags Blayne back into the building, telling him hell be killed in the blast. Cap puts Blayne on camera, and he doesnt break for three minutes, but eventually he talks. With a minute to go before the explosion, Blayne reveals that there are two bombs, the second one behind a clock. Cap jumps on the clock, and keeps the hands apart long enough for the bomb to be disarmed. 


CAPTAIN AMERICA IV/STEVE ROGERS II 
NOM2 24-FB 
CA 155-FB 
{YOUNG MEN 24} <-S/B YOUNG MEN 24/2 
**CA 155-FB 
**YOUNG MEN 24/2 
**YOUNG MEN 25/2 
**YOUNG MEN 26/2 
**MENS ADVENTURE 27/2 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/2 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/4 
**YOUNG MEN 28/2 
**MENS ADVENTURE 28/2 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/2 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/4 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/2 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/4 
**CA@ 6 
CA 155-FB 
M/:LG 1-FB 
{CA 153} 
CA 154 
CA 155 
CA 156 
See Grand Director 

NOMAD III/JACK MONROE 
CA 155-FB 
YOUNG MEN 24} <-S/B YOUNG MEN 24/2 
**CA 155-FB 
**YOUNG MEN 24/2 
YOUNG MEN 25 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 25/2 
YOUNG MEN 26 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 26/2 
YOUNG MEN 27 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 27/2 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 27 <-S/B MEN'S ADVENTURE 27/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 <-s/b 76/4 
YOUNG MEN 28 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 28/2 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 28 <-S/B MEN'S ADVENTURE 28/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/3 <-s/b 77/4 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/2 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/3 <-s/b 78/4 
CA@ 13-FB 
CA@ 6-FB <-S/B CA@ 6 (IS NOT A FB) 
CA 155-FB 
M/:LG 1-FB 
CA 153} <-HAS ONLY ONE BRACKET. 


RED SKULL III/ALBERT MALIK 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 61 
**YOUNG MEN 24/2-FB 
CA@ 13-FB 
YOUNG MEN 24 <-s/b YOUNG MEN 24/2 
{CA 155-FB} <- Remove, this is only reprinted material from Young Men 24. 
**YOUNG MEN 27/2 
CA@ 13-FB 
ASM@ 5-FB 
ASM 366-FB 
CA@ 13-FB 
ASM@ 5 
CA@ 13-FB 
SOLOA 6 
CA 347 
CA@ 13-BTS 

PATRIOT 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 74 
CA@ 13-FB 
WI? 4 
**CA 215-FB 
**WI? 4 
**CA 215-FB 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21-FB 
ALL WINNERS 21 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
S-H2 22 
**YOUNG MEN 24/2-FB 
**CA@ 6-FB 
CV 1-FB 
CA@ 6 
CA 284 
CA 285 

BUCKY II/FRED DAVIS 
M/PRM 30 
WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21-FB 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
S-H2 22 
**YOUNG MEN 24/2-FB 
**CA@ 6-FB 
CV 1-FB 
CV2 1-FB 
{TB 38} 
TB 39 
TB 40 
TB 49 


*GOLDEN GIRL II/BETSY ROSS 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/2 


*ELECTRO II 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78 

(Again, this is the second Electro, the Spider-Man villain is the third Electro. The first one is not in the MCP yet) 

*TRUCKS, SERGEANT SHANTY 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/2 

*EXECUTIONER/LUPA LUPOFF 
YOUNG MEN 25/2 
(This pushes Executioner I and II, back to II and III) 

SUB-MARINER 
S-H2 22-FB 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 82 
NAMORA COMICS 1 
NAMORA COMICS 2 
NAMORA COMICS 3 
YOUNG MEN 24 
**YOUNG MEN 26/2 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 34 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 38 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 42 
CV 1-FB 
CV 2-FB 


HUMAN TORCH 
WI? 4 
S-H2 22 
CV 1-FB 
SUN GIRL 1 
SUN GIRL 2 
SUN GIRL 3 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 92 
HUMAN TORCH 35 
YOUNG MEN 24-FB 
A 134-FB <- Remove, this is a fb to Young Men 24-fb 
YOUNG MEN 24 
YOUNG MEN 25 
YOUNG MEN 26 
**YOUNG MEN 26/2 
YOUNG MEN 27 
YOUNG MEN 28 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 27 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 28 
HUMAN TORCH 36 
HUMAN TORCH 37 
HUMAN TORCH 38 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76 <- S/b CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77 <- S/b CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78 <- S/b CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/3 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 33 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 34 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 35 
A 134-FB 
SAGAHT 4 
A 131 
A 132 
GSA 3 
A 134-FB 
{FF@ 4} 

TORO 
**WI? 4 
**YOUNG MEN 24-FB-BTS 
**WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
** S-H2 22 
**YOUNG MEN 26/2 
CV 1-FB 
SAGAHT 4 
A 134-FB 
{SUB-M 14 (19:3 - 19:5)-FB} 
SUB-M 14 (9:5 - 11:1)-FB 
SUB-M 14 

*THE MAN WITH NO FACE/ WING 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/2

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 11:54 am 
By Somebody
Director

Dhall wrote:
>>>
*ELECTRO II
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78

(Again, this is the second Electro, the Spider-Man villain is the third Electro. The first one is not in the MCP yet)
<<<

The first one's getting retconned to Elektro by JMS tho: http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=124457

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 12:06 pm 
By Dhall

It's still going to require an Electro I see Elektro redirect, or perhaps an Elektro see Electro I redirect. depending on how we handle the situation.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 2:43 pm 
By Enda80

Captain America Annual#13 strongly implied that Malik did not start as the Red Skull till 1953. However, the Red Skull's Update '89#6 states that Malik began as the Red Skull in the later half of the 1940's, while the Patriot's GA Handbook entry states that he fought a Red Skull imposter. So he may have been telling the truth that he was the Red Skull in the footage he showed the men.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 4:00 pm 
By Dhall

While we're on the subject do we know when/under what circumstances Patriot stopped being Captain America? Forgive me, if this is something I should already know, but I Haven't read every comic set in this period yet. 


The Skull is wearing the same outfit as the Skull in the current day portion of the story, but there's nothing else to suggest which Skull/Cap/Bucky is in the flashback.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 4:03 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Patriot just eventually retired as Captain America... as far as I know this has never been shown in a comic.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 6:01 pm 
By Dhall

Fury, What is your opinion of the Young Men 24 fb? Which Cap/Bucky/Skull combo do you think this is? 
When does Mailk's career as the Skull begin?

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 6:14 pm 
By wolframbane

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
Patriot just eventually retired as Captain America... as far as I know this has never been shown in a comic.
<<<

I believe the OHOTMU Golden Age has him retiring in 1949.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 7:06 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Dhall wrote:
>>>
Fury, What is your opinion of the Young Men 24 fb? Which Cap/Bucky/Skull combo do you think this is? 
<<<

I would say it's almost definitely Jeff Mace & Fred Davis.(Captain America III & Bucky II) I would also say that the Red Skull is Albert Malik. Sure, he was 'called' to be the 'new' Red Skull in CA@ 13-FB in 1953, but we've already credited CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 61 to him, and that was in 1947. 


Dhall wrote:
>>>
When does Mailk's career as the Skull begin? 
<<<

I'm under the impression that Albert Malik was the Red Skull for a while, starting in whatever issue of CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS the Red Skull appeared in after 1945, was beaten thoroughly by Jeff & Fred, and retired himself. After there had been no Captain America activity for a while,(because Jeff retired), he decided to 'come back' when called on in CA@ 13-FB, and then appeared in YOUNG MEN 24. The film-reel Flashback would then be his last appearance before CA@ 13-FB.


wolframbane wrote:
>>>
I believe the OHOTMU Golden Age has him retiring in 1949. 
<<<

That makes total sense to me, the last comic 'Jeff Mace' appeared in as Captain America was in CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 74, published in October, 1949.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 8:34 pm 
By Enda80

By the way, if anyone is wondering why Captain America's Weird Tales#74 was removed from Malik's listing, the reason was that the Red Skull in that story was shownas apparently dead in Hades (complete with an appearance by Charon). This doesn't jibe very well with Malik's history or m.o. 

Contrary to some reports, this story was not just a dream diagetically. It uses the cliche of someone thinking their encounter with a monster was only a dream, but they have in their hand a scrap of cloth or clothing that they managed to tear off that disabused them off that notion (Captain America manages to tear off a piece of the Skull's clothes that he still has in his hand upon returning to Earth. Earliest known to this poster use of this cliche: Atali in the Frost Giant's daughter. "He broke off, glaring at the object that still dangled from his clenched left fist; the others gaped silently at the veil he held up - a wisp of gossamer that was never spun by human distaff."NOES has used this a few times, of course.)

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 8:44 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

So if Jeff Mace went to Hell and fought the Red Skull... could it be George Maxon in CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 74?

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Aug 18, 2007 11:54 pm 
By wolframbane

Dhall wrote:
>>>
When does Mailk's career as the Skull begin?
<<<

From OHOTMU: Golden Age
>>>
Following the death of Josef Stalin in 1953, Georgi Malenkov of the Soviet government appointed Albert Malik to take the identity of the Red Skull, hoping to capitalize on the original's reputation despite the history of hostility between communism and Nazism.
<<<

			*	*	*

Aug 19, 2007 9:07 am 
By Dhall

>>>
So if Jeff Mace went to Hell and fought the Red Skull... could it be George Maxon in CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 74?
<<<

Works for me.

			*	*	*

Aug 20, 2007 5:34 pm 
By Enda80

Update '89#6 notes that Malik became the Red Skull in the later half of the 1940's and clashed with the "men" who took over the identity of Captain America before working with the Soviets. To spotweld this with C@13 (the scene with Malenkov originates there), we could say that Malik was an independant operator who answered overtures from the Soviets to continue on as the Red Skull under their direction. 

In any event, Malik fought Jeff Mace as Cap at least once, even if he was not the Red Skull in Captain America Comics#61. 

I have no idea if the Red Skull in Captain America Comics#61 died or not in that story. I also know of no Red Skull stories inbetween that or #74 where the Red Skull in it dies.

			*	*	*

Aug 20, 2007 5:34 pm 
By Enda80

For the record, the letters page to What If I#6 has an editorial discussion of Captain America's Weird Tales#74. I don't recall it exactly, but the editor seems to rebuff an attempt to insinuate Mephisto into the situation.

Last edited by Enda80 on Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total. 

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Aug 20, 2007 5:34 pm 
By Enda80

Of course, my train of thought presumes that the writer of #74 was continuity concsious enough to not just suddenly have the Red Skull dead.

			*	*	*

Thread 38

Subject: Blade (1998/Strange Tales) #1-3

Aug 21, 2007 2:29 am 
By JLH

Boy, that "Homicide: Life on the Street" is a good show! We should watch it often! 
------------------------------------ 
BLADE VOL 1 #1 [Nov 1998] 
"Blood Allies" 
Writer: Don McGregor 
Penciler: Brian Hagan 
Inker: Sandu Florea 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS (also in FB) 
FROST, DEACON (FB only) 
CROSS, TARA (FB only) 

Other characters: 
Yancey, Aldes (vampire. Dies) 
Voisin, Betsy (intended victim) 
Worm-Digger (vampire slave. Dies) 
LeVant, Dominique 
St. Monroe, Yves (vampire) 


Summary: At this point in his career, Blade is living in New Orleans, Louisiana. It's one of his usual nights, and he's out hunting a vampire. This one, Aldes Yancey, schmoozes his victims, usually women, and brings them back to an old riverboat in the bayou. Aldes is in the process of claiming another victim, when Blade busts in, kills his lackey Worm-Digger, and then stakes Aldes up, leaving him trapped atop the giant wheel as dawn rises. The next night, Blade's back at home, carving more stakes while watching his favorite program, "Homicide: Life on the Street". He dwells so hard on it you'd think this was a commercial for that series! Then some lady named Dominique LeVant drops by, in need of a vampire hunter. There's loads of dialogue, Blade waxing philosophical about the vamp-hunting life, and yadda yadda yadda. All the while, there's a vampire skulking around in the shadows, listening in. 


Flashbacks: I've already broken down the "retelling of Blade's birth" featured here, and how it fits with other versions of the same event. 

The only other flashback, shows Blade preparing at home for his vampire-stalking night out, carving his knives while watching "Homicide" and gearing up just prior to this issue's start. 


Continuity notes: This was part of the short-lived "Strange Tales from Marvel" imprint. 

Blade denies revealing to Dominique his real name, as "Blade" is his first and last name in this business, and the only one he needs. 

There's also a back-up feature, "New Line Cinema Presents: Blade, the Movie- Insider Files". It's lots of photos and text concerning the Blade film, which opened around the time of this issue's original publication. This is followed by a "Blade gallery", with pictures from the movie computer painted by Dave McKean. 


Goofs: The word balloon when Dominique gives her name is attributed to Blade, making it look like he's saying her words! 

Frank Pembleton is colored to be a white guy instead of Andre Braugher. 


Calendar notes: The night Dominique visits Blade is said to be "Friday", which was the day when "Homicide" used to air when this book was published. Presumably, his watching the show the night before was due to it being a tape of a previous show, or part of some daily strip syndication repeat (Lifetime ran them at the time, if I recall). 

------------------------------------ 
BLADE VOL 1 #2 [Dec 1998] 
"Blood Allies (Part II)" 
Writer: Don McGregor 
Penciler: Brian Hagan 
Inker: Sandu Florea 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS
MORBIUS/DR. MICHAEL MORBIUS (also in two FBs) 

Other characters: 
LeVant, Dominique (also in two FBs) 
St. Monroe, Yves 
Rath, Xavier (FB only. Runs the Jaded Palate) 
Desiree, Charisma (also in two FBs) 
Desiree, Zinnea (also in two FBs) 
Desiree, Newton (also in FB) 

Summary: So, Dominique finally reveals what she wants to hire Blade for. It's an overly complicated story which is mostly told in dialogue. Dominique works as a purchaser for the Jaded Palate, a creole restuarant. Her boss, Xavier Rath, has noticed something odd with Charisma, daughter of Newton & Zinnea Desiree, owners of a local fresh produce market. Seems Charisma had a baby and nobody talks about the father! Well, recently, a man with very pale skin, clearly a vampire, has been seen around the Desiree family. Charisma has been acting somewhat like a zombie lately, and Dominique believes the vampire is responsible. She got a recommendation on Blade from Xavier, who had a customer leave a card about him. Anyway, Blade shows off his new teakwood katana, makes a comment about how Sally Jesse Raphael and Jerry Springer might very well be the same person, then stabs at the vampire evesdropping on them. The vamp, a former male model named Yves St. Monroe, gets his ear hacked off and a few other scars, and nearly causes Blade to fall upwards of a floor or two to his doom (?!), only to have Dominique fight off her disbelief in vamps to help save him. Blade recovers from his cliffhanger, cuts up Yves some more, and the vampire flees. Elsewhere, the business-suit-clad Morbius floats through the air with the greatest of ease. He wallows in self pity about various events in his life, and then goes to the Desiree household, bugging them some more. Seems Zinnea is related to Morbius' old ex-fiance, Martine, and to make up for all the wrongs he's done to her, he's trying to help out this family. Charisma passes by, with her baby while in another zombie-like state, and of course, Newton & Zinnea act like ignorant chimps, letting her wander off late at night with her baby. Clearly there's nothing wrong with her, let's bicker with the guy trying to help her out! 


Flashbacks: "A week ago", Morbius enters the Jaded Palate, confronts Newton, Zinnea, and Charisma, as Dominique and Xavier watch from the sidelines. 

We then see a short time later, Dominique witnessing Morbius at the Desiree household, getting invited in by Zinnea, all just before Charisma comes home with her baby in an odd trance. 

There's one more FB, showing the standard Morbius origin story, with nothing new whatsoever. 


Continuity notes: Zinnea mentions she "doesn't know Martine anymore", implying she's still alive. 


Goofs: The fold-out recap section gives a character listing for Aldes Yancy (sic), despite his having been killed last issue and never appearing again. 

Charisma's baby is never named. 


Calendar notes: It's still that Friday night. 


------------------------------------ 
BLADE VOL 1 #3 [Jan 1999] 
"Blood Allies, Book Three" 
Writer: Don McGregor 
Penciler: Brian Hagan 
Inker: Sandu Florea 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS
MORBIUS/DR. MICHAEL MORBIUS 

Other characters: 
LeVant, Dominique 
Desiree, Charisma 
Desiree, Zinnea 
Desiree, Newton 
Cypher, Waylon (detective) 
Kincaid, Harvey (drug dealer. Dies) 
Rath, Xavier (now a vampire) 
Sojourner, Ulysses (vampire mob boss) 
St. Monroe, Yves 


Summary: Blade and Dominique hide in the bushes and stake-out the Desiree place. This gives us a few dozen thousand pages of dialogue about their favorite novels. Finally, Charisma leaves the house, breastfeeding as she walks. The two follow her, and notice someone else is, as well. Figuring she's under a vampire's spell, Blade makes Dominique stay behind while he rushes after the girl. He gets stopped by Detective Waylon Cypher of the NOPD, who hassels him. We get another "Homicide" promotion, and even a Buffy comment (Blade's her twin, born two and a half minutes before her!) Oh, as for Charisma, we find out she's actually meeting with a guy named Harvey Kincaid, a drug dealer. Yes, she's just a junkie, not under a vampire's thrall. Morbius kills the dealer, and Charisma is pretty mad about losing her fix as a result. Elsewhere, it turns out the Jaded Palate is actually attended by vampires after midnight! Ulysses Sojourner has turned Xavier Rath into a vamp, and made the place the biggest vamp hotspot in town. Ya see, Ulysses is trying to unite all vampires across America into forming a network for survival of their race. To get rid of their biggest threat here, he's been pretty busy. Ulysses has arranged for Dominique to get Blade to think Charisma is being controlled by Morbius. He'll then kill the Living Vampire, who, unlike other vamps, won't turn to ash and leave no remains behind. With the NOPD having assigned a guy to watch Blade closely, he'll be arrested, and upon learning he's killed a "regular" human, Blade will most likely lose faith with his cause or kill himself. Yves St Monroe shows up, whines about his beloved face getting mutilated, and just basically appears so we can know why he was there last issue. Okay, so Blade finds Charisma running away from Morbius, who chases after her. Blade follows, thinking this is the vampire who has her under his thrall. There's a brief battle atop a streetcar (named desire to see this crappy story END). It all ends with Charisma and her baby getting back to their family's produce market, and Blade flinging one of his wooden stake-knives at Morbius's chest. "To Be Continued"? I guess not! 


Continuity notes: This was intended to be a 6 issue mini-series. Issue 4 was solicited, but they pulled the plug right here due to poor sales. 

Blade thinks about Safron Caulder, making this literally the last time she's been mentioned in any story. 

The only way for this storyline to work is for it to take place prior to Morbius' appearances in X-Man and Peter Parker: Spider-Man. Why? Because in those tales, Morb's back to his cliched costume bad-guy self, here, he's still somewhat presentable, as he was in his monthly book. Also, that X-Man tale leads into PP:SM, which then led directly into the PP:SM vol 2 stuff where Blade would encounter him again (yet never mention these events here in regards to him). 


Goofs: It's possible Blade and Morbius just didn't see each other clearly during their chase, but it's still odd to have two guys who repeatedly met up just a few years ago as part of the Midnight Sons not recognize each other at all. 


Calendar notes: This issue takes place over the course of Saturday, since Yves' encounter with Blade is said to be "last night". 


------------------------------------ 

BLADE/ERIC BROOKS 
... 
BLADE3 
**BLADE4 1-FB 
**BLADE4 1 
**BLADE4 2 
**BLADE4 3 
M/TU2 7 
... 

MORBIUS/DR. MICHAEL MORBIUS 
... 
MORBIUS 32 
**BLADE4 2-FB 
**BLADE4 2-FB 
**BLADE4 2 
**BLADE4 3 
XM 24-FB 
...

			*	*	*

Thread 39

Subject: August call for analyses

01 Aug 2007 07:03 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

It's August now, and that means a new call, so here goes. Again, thanks to everyone who submits analyses. 

Completed stories (as of 8/1/07) 
Agents of Atlas #1-6 (Eric) 
Books of Doom #1-6 (Eric) 
Daughters of the Dragon #1-6 
Eternals v3 #1-7 (Eric) 
Franklin Richards: Son of a Genius Super Summer Spectacular 
Franklin Richards: World Be Warned 
Immortal Iron Fist #7 (Don) 
Moon Knight v5 #1-6 (Joe) 
Mystic Arcanna: Black Knight (JLH) 
Mystic Arcanna: Scarlet Witch (JLH) 
Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E. #7-12 (Col_Fury) 
Sentinel v2 #1-5 (JD) 
Spider-Man Family #3 (JLH) 
Underworld #1-5 (Aaron) 
Wisdom #1-6 (Paul O.) 
X-23: Target X #1-6 (Paul O.) 

Future stuff 
Annihilation: Conquest  Quasar #1-4 (JLH) 
Annihilation: Conquest  Star-Lord #1-4 (Somebody) 
Annihilation: Conquest  Wraith #1-4 (JLH) 
Blade v3 #11-12 (JLH) 
Daredevil v2 #95-99 
Daredevil v2 #101-? 
Daredevil Annual v2 #1 
Daredevil: Battlin Jack Murdock #1-4 
Foolkiller v2 #1-5 
Franklin Richards: Monster Mash 
Ghost Rider v5 #14-19 (JLH) 
Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears #1-6 (JLH) 
Howard the Duck v? #1-4 (JLH) 
Immortal Iron Fist #8-? (Don) 
Immortal Iron Fist Annual #1 (Don) 
Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin #1-6 
Mystic Arcanna: Sister Grimm (JD) 
Nova v4 #4-7 (Somebody) 
Omega the Unknown v2 #1-10 
Punisher v7 #51-54 (Col_Fury) 
Punisher Max Annual #1 (Col_Fury) 
Runaways v2 #25-30 (JD) 
Spider-Man Family #4 (JLH) 
Spider-Man Family #5 (JLH) 
Spider-Man/Red Sonja #1-4 
Terror, Inc. v2 #1-5 
White Tiger #1-6 (JD) 
Wolverine v3 #56 (Col_Fury) 
Wolverine v3 #57-? (Col_Fury) 
Wolverine Annual: Deathsong (Col_Fury) 
Wolverine: Origins #17-20 (Col_Fury)

Last edited by Paul Bourcier on 01 Sep 2007 08:57 pm, edited 8 times in total. 

Paul B.

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01 Aug 2007 09:37 am 
By Kevin W.
Director

>>>
Daredevil v2 #95-99 (Kevin) 
<<<

Actually, Issue #99 hasn't come out yet. It comes out in a couple of weeks. 

And truth be told, my life is incredible busy nowadays, with my business picking up, and having to prepare for a wedding and all that. 

I would ask that if anyone else here can do analysis for Daredevil, could they take over for me? Same with White Tiger, (which still isn't finished yet). I regret it, because I enjoy contributing to the Calender, but that's life for you... 

Now if nobody signs up for these, then down the road at some point, I could do analysis for these issues, but it's not going to get done in the next few months...

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

01 Aug 2007 10:38 am 
By JD

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Completed stories (as of 8/1/07)
Mystic Arcanna: Scarlet Witch
<<<

Late, out in a few weeks. 

I may be interested in covering the White Tiger mini (that is, if that last issue ever comes out).

			*	*	*

01 Aug 2007 07:28 pm 
By JLH

You know, I think Somebody really, really wants to do the analyses for the Annihilation: Conquest books. If it he wants them, I'll gladly give them up to him.

			*	*	*

06 Aug 2007 08:49 pm 
By Eric J. Lawrence

Has anyone heard from some of our volunteers, such as Eric? 

Yep, Eric's right here. 

I did do an analysis for Books of Doom #1, and it was so exhausting, I had to take a moment before I tackled issue #2 (issues #3-6 won't be too troublesome, as very little depicted had been seen or refered to before). 

That moment has taken longer than I expected, ultimately including a house move, which entailed moving my whole comics collection. A few things got scattered in said move, but I think I have a handle on them. Issue #2 will be posted soon, I promise. And the rest of the issues will be posted in short measure. 

When I started analysing Agents of Atlas, I decided that I should acquire the HC collection, as I think that includes some additional material that might help disentangle the early histories of the characters. Haven't done that yet, but will this weekend. 

No excuse for the Eternals stuff, but I have it all & will tackle it soon. 

Sorry for the delay everyone!!! 

EJL

			*	*	*

06 Aug 2007 09:35 pm 
By Somebody
Director

I certainly do not "really, really want" to do the A:C books . I've still not decided if I'm even going to keep up with AC:Quasar & AC:Wraith yet - AC:Q in particular is annoying me. 

If what JLH is actually saying though is that he doesn't have time to do the analyses though , I could do the Prologue, AC:Star-Lord and the Nova issues anyway to take some of the load off him. 


Eric J. Lawrence wrote:
>>>
When I started analysing Agents of Atlas, I decided that I should acquire the HC collection, as I think that includes some additional material that might help disentangle the early histories of the characters. Haven't done that yet, but will this weekend.
<<<

As far as I can see: 

Namora, Gorilla Man, Jimmy Woo & Yellow/Golden Claw are fundamentally unaffected. New wrinkles are added, but nothing that *changes* (as opposed to "adds to"/"reveals new information") anything.

Human Robot's original story is thrown out of continuity entirely. The new version retains some cosmetic aspects - the look of his creator, and the original Human Robot design (the tweaked version seen in the rest of the series is attributed to Marvel Boy's rebuild & ongoing Atlas upgrades) - but is completely irreconcilable. The WI? 9 original story is (framing sequence aside) confirmed as non-canon for the MU as well, as implied by Avengers Forever, with the MU version of events seen early in AoAtlas 1.

Marvel Boy's "how he survived" bit introduces some serious snags with Quasar #2 and possibly some canon What If? backups I've heard of but haven't read. How much that affects actual character listings I'm not sure though.

Venus is the biggest problem though. The origin Namora gives for her is basically confirmed during Mr. Lao's spiel in #6. However, in #3, she claims to have been Namorita's teacher - a reference to Sub-Mariner v1 #57. Which guest-stars a Venus who, between her pursuit by Ares in the issue, and being present on Olympus and referencing SUBM57 during Avengers #277, has to be the actual Greco-Roman goddess. (Incidentally, certainly during the latter story and possibly also the former, AoAt-Venus is meant to be in the unnamed African country the group catch up with her in in AoAtlas #2. The text page in #2 states that she was meant to have been Namorita's teacher for two semesters during "the early 1970s", rather than the sliding-timelined 1990s where SUBM 57 would now sit.) This was why I started this thread - http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2 ... php?t=3180 - to see how relevant the thing is. Basically, it seems that just about every post-GA appearance involves Venus being an actual Olympian goddess in some way. Which isn't necessarily fatal if the listing can be split into VENUS [SIREN] and VENUS [OLYMPIAN], but that's all about what where you draw the line - anyone read the GA-Venus books? 

			*	*	*

07 Aug 2007 12:52 am 
By JLH

It's not that I don't have the time, I'm just not as quick on the draw as you are. I haven't budged much on the latest SPider-Man Family because it'll require plenty of research into early FF and Spidey team-ups. Blade 11 I've delved into only to realize issue 12 comes out this week so I should hold up and wait for it and just do them both at once. Trail of Tears has no relevance to the calendar at all (and hardly anything to do with the MCP, even).

			*	*	*

07 Aug 2007 10:29 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I've updated the call. Thanks for letting us know your situations, Kevin, JD, and Eric. And thanks to JD and Somebody for volunteering. 

Paul B.

			*	*	*

09 Aug 2007 06:24 am 
By JLH

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Daughters of the Dragon #1-6 
<<<

Haw haw! Nobody likes the series that set-up the current Heroes for Hire book.


Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Mystic Arcanna: Black Knight
Mystic Arcanna: Scarlet Witch
<<<

Since I've... uhh...  "freed up my schedule" with Annihilation: Conquest, I might as well do these two.


Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Howard the Duck v? #1-4
<<<

Might as well sign me up for this, even though it could easily be nebulous. It's got MODOK and Ty proved he'd not a bad duck (waugh!) with his Howard story in the CW one-shot a while back.

			*	*	*

09 Aug 2007 06:53 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Much obliged, JLH! 

Paul B.

			*	*	*

09 Aug 2007 10:22 am 
By Somebody
Director

JLH wrote:
>>>
Since I've... uhh...  "freed up my schedule" with Annihilation: Conquest, I might as well do these two.
<<<

JLH, if you would rather do the whole of AC, I'm not out to nick them off you - I said "if you're saying you don't have time to" for a reason. Up to you.

			*	*	*

09 Aug 2007 11:45 pm 
By JLH

Somebody wrote:
>>>
JLH wrote:
>>>
Since I've... uhh...  "freed up my schedule" with Annihilation: Conquest, I might as well do these two.
<<<

JLH, if you would rather do the whole of AC, I'm not out to nick them off you - I said "if you're saying you don't have time to" for a reason. Up to you.
<<<

Judging from the previous Annihilation thread, it'll just be better if you just analyze what you're reading than to have any toes ending up stepped on.

			*	*	*

16 Aug 2007 06:58 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Daredevil 99 ends on a cliffhanger, to be continued(concluded?) in issue 100. So I guess that should read: 

Daredevil v2 #95-100 

Also, I'll probably be analysing the current Wolverine: Origins arc in individual issues as they come out, instead of all at once like I normally do.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

19 Aug 2007 11:17 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Hey Paul, you might as well sign me up for Wolverine Annual: Deathsong. Why not, right?

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

22 Aug 2007 11:01 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Hey Paul, you might as well sign me up for Wolverine Annual: Deathsong. Why not, right?
<<<

You got it! Thanks! Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 40

18 Jul 2007 05:48 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Punisher #43 
Widowmaker 1 of 7 
W: Garth Ennis 
D: Lan Medina 
Pub: March, 2007 

Appearances: 
Punisher(Frank Castle), Anabella Gorrini, Bonnie De Angelo, Lorraine Zucca, Barbi Barrucci, Shauna Toomey, Jenny. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg15 
The Punisher finds out where a child pornography ring is. Elsewhere, a group of mob widows(Anabella, Bonnie, Lorraine, Barbi, & Shauna) meet and plan to kill the Punisher; revenge for him killing their husbands. Elsewhere, Jenny, sister to Anabella, picks up a date in a bar, then beats the crap out of him because she cant feel anything. 
Pg16pn1-FB 
The Punisher shoots John James Toomey in the chest. Between pg6& pg7 of issue 37 of the current volume. 
Pg16pn2: now 
The widows chat about the Punisher. 
Pg16pn3(of 3)-FB 
Mob wives console each other at a hospital after a Punisher attack. 
Pg17pn1-FB 
The Punisher kills some mobsters. Between pg9 & pg10 of issue 21 of current volume. 
Pg17pn2: now 
The widows chat about the Punisher. 
Pg17pn3-FB 
Mobsters run around on fire. 
Pg17pn4(of 4): now 
The widows chat about the Punisher. 
Pg18-FB 
The Punisher kills a bunch of mobsters. Between pg 13 & pg14 of issue 1 of the current volume. 
Pg19-pg22: now 
The mob widows finalize their plan to kill the Punisher, and Jenny plans to kill the mob wives. 

References: 
The current day stuff is all in one night. Coat weather in New York, breath can be seen. 

In his monologue, the Punisher mentions the events of the last arc as last year. This and the weather may place this in January or February but this book seems to operate under the assumption of real time & not comic time, so, make of that what you will. 

Pg16pn3-FB takes place after Joe Consiglios card game, where the Punisher shot Paulie in the face with a shotgun. Mikey V was there. Does that sound familiar to anyone? The other FlashBacks presented here were from previous comics but I cant seem to find this one. Help? 

Pg17pn3-FB shows mobsters running around on fire, the Punisher has just used a flamethrower on them. Again, the other FlashBacks are from previously shown events, and I seem to remember this one, but I cant find it. Help? 

Punisher #44 
Widowmaker 2 of 7 
W: Garth Ennis 
D: Lan Medina 
Pub: April, 2007 

Appearances: 
Punisher(Frank Castle), Anabella, Bonnie, Lorraine, Barbi, Shauna Toomey, Jenny, Det. Paul Budianski. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg6: same night as last issue 
The Punisher goes to the child pornographers house and kills the parents. He calls the police, leaving the children for them. 
Pg7pn1-pg7pn3: next day 
Det. Budianski is questioned over his actions yesterday. 
Pg7pn4(of 5)-pg8pn1-FB: yesterday 
Det. Budianski reports to a school shooting and heads inside against orders. 
Pg8pn2-pg8pn3 
Det. Budianski is questioned further. 
Pg8pn4-pg9pn3-FB 
Det. Budianski makes his way through the school and kills the shooter. 
Pg9pn4(of 5)-pg22 
Det. Budianskis mandatory trauma therapy continues. Elsewhere, the mob widows continue to go over paperwork on the Punisher. Det. Budianski finishes his trauma therapy, and goes home to his wife. Later, the mob wives go over their plan over dinner, and Jenny spies on them in the background. 

References: 
The school shooting happened yesterday, the same day as last issue. However, last issue began at night, so the shooting precedes that. 

Punisher #45 
Widowmaker 3 of 7 
W: Garth Ennis 
D: Lan Medina 
Pub: May, 2007 

Appearances: 
Punisher(Frank Castle), Anabella, Bonnie, Lorraine, Barbi, Shauna Toomey, Jenny. 

Synopsis: 
Pg5-pg6-FB: day after last issue 
The mob widows try to figure out what the Punisher would want to attack, so Bambi offers to sleep with Tony Pizzo to find out whats happening. Jenny is spying on them. 
Pg9-pg11-FB: the next day 
Bambi sleeps with Tony, who reveals that a new mob boss is being brought in from Reno. 
Pg16-pg17-FB: the morning after pg11-FB 
Tony prepares to pick up the new mob boss, and Bonnie, one of the widows, disguised as a hooker is put into one of the cars trunks. 
Pg1-pg4 
The Punisher attacks a caravan of mobsters. 
Pg7-pg8 
The Punisher slaughters the mobster caravan. 
Pg12-pg15 
The Punisher kills the new mob boss from Reno with a rocket launcher, then finds Bonnie in the trunk of a car, dressed as a hooker. She tells him that a prostitution/slavery racket is nearby. 
Pg18-pg22 
The Punisher is brought to the widows ambush. 

References: 
Yes, the pages above are out of order, but theyre in sequence. 

Theres snow all over the place, keeping with the cold weather seen in #43. 

Punisher #46 
Widowmaker 4 of 7 
W: Garth Ennis 
D: Lan Medina 
Pub: June, 2007 

Appearances: 
Punisher(Frank Castle), Anabella, Bonnie, Lorraine, Barbi, Shauna Toomey, Jenny, Det. Paul Budianski. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: same night as end of last issue 
The Punisher is ambushed by the mob widows and hes shot through the chest. Jenny comes out of hiding and eviscerates Bonnie, grabs the Punishers machine gun and opens fire on the mob widows. They try to escape, but the police arrive. Det. Budianski interviews the widows, and hes not satisfied with their story, given the evidence and the surroundings. Meanwhile, Jenny brings the Punisher to her place, cleans him up, and thanks him for killing her husband. 

Punisher #47 
Widowmaker 5 of 7 
W: Garth Ennis 
D: Lan Medina 
Pub: July, 2007 

Appearances: 
Punisher(Frank Castle), Anabella, Lorraine, Barbi, Shauna Toomey, Jenny, Det. Paul Budianski. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg2-FB 
Jenny & Tim get married, that night he rapes her on their honeymoon. 
Pg3-FB 
Jenny figures out that Tim enjoys beating her up in addition to raping her. 
Pg4-FB 
Tim brings some friends over and forces Jenny to entertain them. Afterwards, he beats her up for being unfaithful. 
Pg5-FB 
The Punisher kills a bunch of mobsters, one of which is Tim, Jennys husband. 
Pg6-pg11pn2: morning after last issue 
Jenny tells the Punisher her lifes story. Meanwhile, the mob widows scramble to get their stories straight for the police. Elswhere, Det. Budianski IDs the dead woman. 
Pg11pn3-FB 
Jenny receives a gift. 
Pg11pn4(of 4)-FB 
Jenny takes a trip to Cancun. 
Pg12pn1-FB 
Jenny goes to dinner with some friends. 
Pg12pn2: now 
Jenny continues her story 
Pg12pn3-pg12pn4-FB 
Jenny is introduced to Tim 
Pg12pn5(of 5): now 
Jenny continues her story. 
Pg13pn1-FB 
Jenny announces that she & Tim are engaged. 
Pg13pn2-FB 
Jennys father walks her down the aisle. 
Pg13pn3: now 
Jenny continues her story 
Pg13pn4(of 4)-pg14pn1-FB 
More of Jennys wedding ceremony. 
Pg14pn2-pg14pn3-FB 
Tim kicks the crap out of Jenny. Later, Anabella consoles her at the hospital. 
Pg14pn4-pg14pn5(of 5): now 
Jenny continues her story. 
Pg15pn1-FB 
Jenny finds out that she has cancer. 
Pg15pn2: now 
Jenny continues her story. 
Pg15pn3(of 4)-pg16pn1-FB 
Having discovered that she has cancer, Jenny has decided to go to the FBI with what she knows of mob operations. Her sister cant have that, so shes hired Shauna Toomey to kill Jenny. 
Pg16pn2: now 
Jenny continues her story. 
Pg16pn3-pg16pn5(of 5)-FB 
Anabella & Shauna smash Jennys skull and prepare to dispose of her. 
Pg17-pg18pn4: now 
Shauna asks her associate Curtis why Jenny isnt dead. 
Pg18pn5(of 5)-pg19-FB 
Shaunas associate takes Jenny to the train tracks and shes thrown over a bridge. 
Pg20-pg21pn1: now 
Shaunas associate reveals that hes a dumbass. 
Pg21pn2-pg21pn4(of 4)-FB 
Jenny lands in a trains garbage car. 
Pg22: now 
Jenny finishes her story. 

References: 
Current day portions are all in one day, the day after last issue. Easy! 

The FlashBacks ah, the Flashbacks. 

Jenny met Tim, they knew each other for four months. They got engaged, were engaged for five months, got married. So they knew each other for nine months when they got married. About a year after the marriage Tim started sharing Jenny with friends. Sometime later, Tim is killed by the Punisher.(Apparently this is a new event, unlike all the ones shown last issue, which were events from previous issues) 

Jenny getting a gift, going to Cancun, and eating dinner lead up to her meeting Tim. So this is before all of the above. Then, Jenny is introduced to Tim, which would be at the nine month marker, before the wedding. The wedding scenes following this add to pg1-pg2-FB 

Jenny getting the crap kicked out of her and her recovering in the hospital, happen before Tim is killed. 

Jenny finding out that she has cancer happens the day after that Tim is killed by the Punisher. Anabella & Shauna Toomey taking care of Jenny happens very shortly after that. Taking care of Jenny happens about ten years ago. Give or take. Roughly ten years ago. 

So. 

PUN7 47 (11:3)-FB gift (one day) 
PUN7 47 (11:4)-FB Cancun (one day) 
PUN7 47 (12:1)-FB dinner (one day) 
PUN7 47 (12:3-12:4)-FB Jenny meets Tim (one day) 
PUN7 47 (13:1)-FB engaged! (four months later) 
PUN7 47 (13:4-14:1)-FB wedding ceremony (five months later) 
PUN7 47 (1-2)-FB end of wedding, honeymoon (same day) 
PUN7 47 (3)-FB enjoys beating up in addition (one day) 
PUN7 47 (4)-FB sharing (~year after marriage) 
PUN7 47 (14:2-14:3)-FB Tim kicks Jenny, hospital (one day) 
PUN7 47 (5)-FB Tim is killed by Punisher (one day) 
PUN7 47 (15:1)-FB cancer (next day) 
PUN7 47(15:3-16:1)-FB Jenny threatens FBI (next day) 
PUN7 47 (16:3-16:5)-FB Jenny taken care of (same day)(~ten years ago from now) 
PUN7 47 (18:5-19)-FB Jenny thrown over bridge (same day) 
PUN7 47 (21:2-21:4)-FB taken out with trash (same day) 

For the Punisher, that would put the only FlashBack he appears in in this issue about ten years ago from now. So sometime in Year 14, I guess. 

Punisher #48 
Widowmaker 6 of 7 
W: Garth Ennis 
D: Lan Medina 
Pub: August, 2007 

Appearances: 
Punisher(Frank Castle), Anabella, Lorraine, Barbi, Shauna Toomey, Jenny, Det. Paul Budianski. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22:same day as last issue 
Det. Budianski re-questions the mob widows(sans Shauna) about what they were doing last night. When he leaves Shauna has Curtis kill Budianski. He tries, but shoots his wife instead. Budianski kills Curtis. Later at the hospital, Budianski finds out his wife will live, but hes being suspended. Later he finds out that Curtis used to work for Toomey, and decides to take care of the mob widows. That night, Jenny decides its time to finish her own business with the widows and takes the Punishers shirt for good luck. 

References: 
All in one day, the same day as last issue. 

Punisher #49 
Widowmaker 7 of 7 
W: Garth Ennis 
D: Lan Medina 
Pub: September, 2007 

Appearances: 
Punisher(Frank Castle), Anabella, Lorraine, Barbi, Shauna Toomey, Jenny, Det. Paul Budianski. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg19: same day as last issue 
Jenny kills all of the widows except her sister Anabella. As she leaves, Det. Budianski arrives to find their bodies. Jenny takes Anabella back to her place, tortures, mutilates, and kills her. Afterwards, she kills herself. The Punisher frees himself, gets dressed and leaves, but is stiopped by Budianski. After a chat, he decides to let the Punisher go. 
Pg20-pg21pn2: the next day 
Det. Budianski visits his wife at the hospital, and the Punisher watches as paramedics takes Jennys & Anabellas bodies out of Jennys place. 
Pg21pn3-FB 
The Punisher holds Kathryn OBriens body. Between issues 41 & 42 of the current volume. 
Pg21pn4(of4)-pg22 
The Punisher walks off. 

References: 
Hey, its still cold outside! 

All together now: 
PUN7 47 (11:3)-FB gift (one day) 
PUN7 47 (11:4)-FB Cancun (one day) 
PUN7 47 (12:1)-FB dinner (one day) 
PUN7 47 (12:3-12:4)-FB Jenny meets Tim (one day) 
PUN7 47 (13:1)-FB engaged! (four months later) 
PUN7 47 (13:4-14:1)-FB wedding ceremony (five months later) 
PUN7 47 (1-2)-FB end of wedding, honeymoon (same day) 
PUN7 47 (3)-FB enjoys beating up in addition (one day) 
PUN7 47 (4)-FB sharing (~year after marriage) 
PUN7 47 (14:2-14:3)-FB Tim kicks Jenny, hospital (one day) 
PUN7 47 (5)-FB Tim is killed by Punisher (one day) 
PUN7 47 (15:1)-FB cancer (next day) 
PUN7 47(15:3-16:1)-FB Jenny threatens FBI (next day) 
PUN7 47 (16:3-16:5)-FB Jenny taken care of (same day)(~ten years ago from now) 
PUN7 47 (18:5-19)-FB Jenny thrown over bridge (same day) 
PUN7 47 (21:2-21:4)-FB taken out with trash (same day) 
*** 
???PUN7 43 (16:3)-FB??? 
*** 
???PUN7 43 (17:3)-FB??? 
*** 
PUN7 1 (1-13) 
PUN7 43 (18)-FB 
PUN7 1 (14-22) 
*** 
PUN7 21 (1-9) 
PUN7 43 (17:1)-FB 
PUN7 21 (10-22) 
*** 
PUN7 37 (1-6) 
PUN7 43 (16:1)-FB 
PUN7 37 (7-22) 
*** 
PUN7 41 
PUN7 49 (21:3)-FB 
PUN7 42 
*** 
PUN7 44 (7:4-8:1)-FB [day 1] 
PUN7 44 (8:4-9:3)-FB [day 1] 
PUN7 43 (1-22, minus FlashBacks) [day 1] 
PUN7 44 (1-6) [day 1] 
PUN7 44 (7:1-7:3) [day 2] 
PUN7 44 (8:2-8:3) [day 2] 
PUN7 44 (9:4-22) [day 2] 
PUN7 45 (5-6)-FB [day 3] 
PUN7 45 (9-11)-FB [day 4] 
PUN7 45 (16-17)-FB [day 5] 
PUN7 45 (1-4) [day 5] 
PUN7 45 (7-8) [day 5] 
PUN7 45 (12-15) [day 5] 
PUN7 45 (18-22) [day 5] 
PUN7 46 (1-22) [day 5] 
PUN7 47 (1-22, minus Flashbacks) [day 6] 
PUN7 48 (1-22) [day 6] 
PUN7 49 (1-19) [day 6] 
PUN7 49 (20-22, minus FlashBack) [day 7] 

And there it is!

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

24 Jul 2007 10:31 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Hi, Col. I think the "last year" reference to the last story arc works well vis-a-vis the calendar. My guess is that a long gap is intended to go between issues #42 and #43, perhaps to accommodate the run to date of PWJ2 issues. I'm tentatively placing Frank in these PUN7 issues at the end of winter, after the CW- and Cap-death-related issues of Punisher War Journal, an arc that hasn't ended yet.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

24 Jul 2007 11:29 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

That works for me.  

Any ideas about those two FlashBacks? Anybody?

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

20 Aug 2007 12:07 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Punisher MAX 43: 
Pg16pn3-FB takes place after Joe Consiglios card game, where the Punisher shot Paulie in the face with a shotgun. Mikey V was there. Does that sound familiar to anyone? The other FlashBacks presented here were from previous comics but I cant seem to find this one. Help? 

Pg17pn3-FB shows mobsters running around on fire, the Punisher has just used a flamethrower on them. Again, the other FlashBacks are from previously shown events, and I seem to remember this one, but I cant find it. Help? 

...anybody? Please?

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

20 Aug 2007 09:36 am 
By Kevin W.
Director

Okay, I'm at work, and don't have the issues in front of me, but... 

Pg16pn3-FB takes place after Joe Consiglios card game, where the Punisher shot Paulie in the face with a shotgun. Mikey V was there. Does that sound familiar to anyone? The other FlashBacks presented here were from previous comics but I cant seem to find this one. Help? 

I'm sorry, but it's not sounding familiar. I think your best bet is to write if off as a new scene. Didn't the murder of Jenny's husband occur something like "10 years ago"? I could've sworn when Annabella and Shauna discussed Shauna's failed attempt to murder Jenny, they were talking like it occured "10 years ago" or something like that. I know Jenny had been out of the picture for a while, that's for certain...

If it's something that occured "10 years ago" then it's before Garth Ennis' time on the title. Ennis' wouldn't bother referring to a specific event written by another writer before he came along. In other words, it's a new scene.

Pg17pn3-FB shows mobsters running around on fire, the Punisher has just used a flamethrower on them. Again, the other FlashBacks are from previously shown events, and I seem to remember this one, but I cant find it. Help? 

Sounds like a scene from Issue #2 or 3 of the "Welcome Back, Frank" storyline from back in the year 2000, (I don't know what volume that is). That was written by Garth Ennis. 

Is the Punisher emerging from the back of a truck? I think he popped out of the back of a truck, taking the mobsters by surprise, and lighting them on fire with a flamethrower, if I'm remembering that scene right, (and I'm pretty sure I am)... 

Also, wasn't Annabella and Jenny's last name the same last name as that of the crime family that the Punisher slaughtered in Issue #1 of "Punisher MAX"? 

EDIT: I see you have Annabella's name as "Anabella Gorrini". If that's what they listed it as being in the story arc, then that's fine. I can't remember the issues at hand right now...

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

21 Aug 2007 01:14 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Aha! Yes, issue 3 of volume 6. That's it! 

So: 

PUN6 3 (1-3) 
PUN7 43 (17:3)-FB-BTS 
PUN6 3 (4-22) 

Thanks, Kevin! 

I suppose the other FlashBack is a new scene entirely... 

Yeah, Gorinni was Anabella's married name, they never mention(that I saw) what Jenny's married name was, or what their maiden names were. Also, I'm not sure if it would be the same as the crimes family's, because Anabella married into the family, and Jenny was married off to one of the higher-ups. Who knows.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

22 Aug 2007 10:53 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

>>>
Aha! Yes, issue 3 of volume 6. That's it! 
<<<

Isn't that volume 5?

Paul B.

			*	*	*

22 Aug 2007 12:35 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

...yes. 

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 41

Subject: Blade (2006) #10-12

18 Jul 2007 03:22 am 
By JLH

Here's a new thread, whereas I'll post the analysis for the final three issues of the current Blade volume, and I'll even throw in analysis of his other series that aren't currently in the MCP as I go along. 


------------------------------------ 
BLADE VOL 3 #10 [August 2007] 
"Web" 
Writer: Marc Guggenheim 
Artist: Howard Chaykin 
With Acknowledgement of the Work of Chris Claremont, Tony DeZuniga & Rico Rival. 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS (also in FB) 
CROSS, LUCAS 
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER (also in FB) 
KING, HANNIBAL 
GLORY (FB only) 
AFARI, JAMAL (FB only) 
DRACULA/VLAD TEPES (FB only) 
PARKER, BEN (FB only) 
PARKER, MAY REILLY (FB only) 
FRACTURE 

Other characters: 
Various politicans 



Summary: With a little help from his gun-hand, Blade smooges his way into a party being thrown by his father, Lucas Cross, in Washington, D.C. Lucas is happy to see that Blade now believes he's his father, and soon reveals the key to his longevity, that he's a vampire, to his son. Blade is ready to stake him right there, but he's reminded if he does that, he'll not get the answers he seeks. It's basically plot elaboration and recap in conversation form, with Lucas claiming he became a vamp to be with his son and wife again, and his chaining Blade up was to make the prophecy come true. Blade finally realizes that part ended up coming true thanks to his biting of Draconis. Lucas refuses to explain the prophecy, since if he told him he doubts he'd help him. Though still being seen as evil despite his claims to the contrary, Blade leaves his father be, though he's refusing to allow "destiny" to control his actions. But, hey, as it turns out Blade was keeping Lucas and company distracted while Hannibal King snuck in and get some info off their computers. It ends up being just the Prophecy of Tyrana, in all its glory. Blade notices, aside from the drinking of the blood of the innocent thing he already knew about, the other part that came true: his saving Lucas Cross before he was born via time travel in issue 2. Thus, he and Hannibal head to La Crosse, Kansas, site where the SHIELD Helicarrier full of vampires from issue 1 crash landed. Since Hannibals is FROM that town, and is the detective, he gets the task of asking around. Turns out, aside from the three dozen SHIELD, FBI, FAA, and NSA people scouring the scene, prior to their arrival, a mysterious man in a green & black cloak was lurking about. With this lead giving him an idea on who else might've seen the mystery man, the pair head next to New York City. 

In NYC, Spider-Man faces a cracked-face criminal calling himself Fracture. He can destroy buildings with a simple touch, and during the scuffle, plans to do the same to Spidey's ever-lovin' head... until Blade steps in and unloads his gun-hand on the crook. Fracture falls, but despite Spidey's typical kneejerk reaction to killing a villain, he was merely blasted with tranquilizer darts. Spidey is still sore about his kneecapping when last he and the Vampire Hunter met, which is what Blade has come to question him about. After a little coaxing, Spider-Man reveals the details of the events leading him to getting turned into a vampire in the Elementary school. Blade refuses to apologize for kneecapping him, since he was doing him a favor by not staking him. Anyway, nobody saw the man in the green & black cloak leave the school. But Spidey managed to not only see his face, but heard the name Dracula called him: Jamal Afari. 


Flashbacks: Back in the 1930s/40s, still in London, Blade and Glory attempt to find Jamal Afari. He's been missing for five days. Blade breaks into his place, and judging by the dust, he hasn't been home in that much time, either. Shortly thereafter, Blade encountered Dracula, wearing modern (for the 1930s period) clothing, attacking Ben & May Parker in an alleyway while on their Honeymoon. He saves the couple, then chases after the vampire, who leads him right into Short-Boy's, the jazz club his mentor, Jamal Afari, frequents. There, he finds Jamal at last, only to discover he's become a vampire, and the man who turned him is none other than Dracula. After a brief scuffle with his mentor, Blade snatches a pair of pure silver candlesticks and holds them in the shape of a cross, somehow turning both Jamal and the vamp he was chasing into piles of burning ash! 

The second set of FBs leads directly into issue 1 of this series, which according to Blade was at this point "a few months back". Spider-Man spots Jamal Afari, aka "the man in the green and black cloak", skulking mysteriously towards an Elementary school. Elsewhere in the school, Blade was hunting Dracula. Spidey trailed behind Jamal and found him meeting with Dracula in the school's basement. There, Jamal did the dirty work of digging around for an amulet. Spidey intervened, but Jamal overtook him and bit him on the neck. Almost instantly, Spider-Man became a vampire, went nuts and rushed up into the school. Luckily, on his rampage, he ended up in the gym, where he encountered Blade, and we know the rest of that story, don't we? 


Continuity notes: Ben and May are on their Honeymoon (one of them, likely May, claims they wanted to Honeymoon at Niagra Falls instead). 

Spider-Man is in his Black Costume, putting this at some point during the whole "Back In Black" fiasco... err, storyline. 


Goofs: How did Spidey become a vampire so damn quickly? It's supposed to take a few days... at least, it usually does. Marvel plays fast and loose with vamp rules, though this is one they usually stick to pretty well. 

Yes, if you have a problem with Ben & May being on their Honeymoon just prior to the start of WWII, the couple could very well be generic Ben & May. Or the clothes and setting could be topical (since Glory's initial appearance was drawn to be in the 1970s, and since been retconned here to be in the 30s, it'd only be fair). 

We still don't get any explaination for how Spidey's kneecaps got repaired so easily. Nor for how SHIELD was able to revert him from his vampiric state. 


Calendar notes: Fully green foliage in the trees visible in Washington, DC. Same with La Crosse, Kansas. 

Page 0: Recap page, repleat with the full printout of the prophecy. 
Page 1: FB. 1930s. Glory & Blade break into Jamal Afari's place, finding he hasn't been home in five days. 
Pages 2-6: Hazy, starless night in Washington DC. Blade crashes Lucas' party, grills him for questions while Hannibal swipes the Prophecy paper. 
Dialogue on Page 6 panel 5, through Page 7 and onto dialogue on Page 8 panels 1 & 2: Blade and Hannibal regroup in the empty streets of the city at night. Reading of the Prophecy leads Blade to head to Kansas, where Hannibal is from. 
Page 8 through dialogue on page 9 panel 1: Night, starry and clear in La Crosse, Kansas. Hannibal asks around at the site of the Helicarrier crash. Learns that just before agents from SHIELD, FBI, FAA, and NSA swarmed the crash scene, a man in a green & black cloak (Jamal Afari) was spotted by a farmer, swiping Dracula's remains from the farmland (salted Earth), fulfilling another part of the prophecy. 
Pages 9-10, page 11 panel 5 dialogue, page 12, page 13 panels 1 & 2, dialogue on panels 3 & 4 through page 17, then page 18, and then page 21 panel 4 dialogue through page 22: Night, hazy sky in New York City. Black suited Spider-Man stops a villain named Fracture from destroying buildings, and gets saved by Blade using tranqs on the crook. He then asks Spidey about what he saw before getting turned into a vampire. This leads to his informing him the man in the green & black cloak was named Jamal Afari. 
Pages 13 panel 3 & 4 through page 17 panel 2: FB. Just prior to the main story of issue 1 of this volume. On what appears to be daytime, Spider-Man (red & blue) follows after the man in the green & black cloak into the Elementary school, where Blade is searching for Dracula. The man in the cloak, whom he learns is named Jamal Afari, is digging in the basement for an amulet, and is working with Drac. In trying to stop him, Spidey gets bit by Jamal, goes on a rampage and heads to the gym. 
Page 17 panels 3-5: Same stuff as issue 1 of Blade facing Vampider-Man. 
Page 11, page 19 panels 1-3: FB. 1930s continued. Blade spots a vampire trying to bite a newlywed couple (Ben and May Parker) in an alleyway in London. He attacks the vampire, who then flees. Blade chases him into Slow-Boy's. 
Page 19 panel 3: FB. Effectively the same as M/PRV 3-FB Page 35 panel 2. Blade spots Jamal standing in the club. 
Page 19 panel 4: FB, abridged version of M/PRV 3-FB Page 35 panel 3. Blade talking to Jamal, who shuns him. 
Page 20 panel 1: FB. New panel. We see the vampire standing to the side as Blade questions Jamal about his association with the vamp. 
M/PRV 3-FB Page 35 panel 4 would fit between this. Vampire Jamal flipping Blade over after warning him to get away. 
Page 20 panels 2 & 3: FB. Slight variant of M/PRV 3-FB Page 35 panels 5-6. Jamal reveals Drac made him a vampire, how he never forgot about getting revenge on him after all these years. 
Page 20 panels 4 & 5 through Page 21 panel 1: FB. Slight variant of M/PRV 3-FB Page 35 panels 6 & 7 through Page 36 panel 1. Jamal attacks Blade, who refuses to fight back, as the other vampire stands in the background. He's not there at all in the original version, but we see him in the new one. 
M/PRV 3-FB Page 36 panel 2. Jamal lunges at Blade, who reaches for the candlesticks. 
Page 21 panels 2-3: FB. Blade gasps "oh god" and connects the two candlesticks together, causing a burst of energy from them. 
M/PRV 3-FB Page 36 panel 3: Blade firing off the energy from the two candlesticks directly at Jamal, igniting him. As per the retcon, he also seems to have blasted the vampire as well. 
Page 21 panel 4: Blade on his knees amid the ashes. 
M/PRV 3-FB Page 36 panel 4: On his knees amid the ashes, Blade screams out Jamal's name. 
------------------------------------ 

------------------------------------ 
BLADE VOL 3 #11 [September 2007] 
"A Night For Destiny" 
Writer: Marc Guggenheim 
Artist: Howard Chaykin 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS (also in FB and FB within FB) 
CROSS, LUCAS (also in FB) 
KING, HANNIBAL (also in FB within FB) 
AFARI, JAMAL 
STRONG, OGUN (FB only) 
N'DAMMEN, AZU (FB only) 
MUSENDA (FB only) 
JONES, ORJI (FB only) 
DRACULA/VLAD TEPES (FB only) 


Other characters: 
Manning (Cross' assistant. FB only) 


Summary: Blade finally returns to his old apartment in Manhattan and gets a good night's rest. Or, rather, he would have, if his father and his gun-toting cronies hadn't interrupted him. They're merely there to assure Blade's cooperation, as Lucas goes over all that Blade has been up to lately, spending three weeks searching the world for Jamal Afari. Lucas happens to know where he is, which gets his son's attention at last. So, shortly, on Lucas' prviate jet, Blade, Lucas, and Hannibal King are on their way to Transylvania. Though Blade and King looked for Jamal there first, Lucas assures him he's there, and not only will he reunite his son with his mentor, but he'll give him the means to get him back his soul. Once in Transylvania, Lucas reveals that despite the fact Drac doesn't live at his castle anymore, the earth is salted and that's part of the prophecy. Hannibal surprised Lucas when he reveals he swiped a copy of it off his computer. The three arrive at Count Dracula's castle, which has been turned into a tourist attraction! As they pass into it, they go over the prophecy's specifics. The whole "at immortal living's cost to the man known as Blade" means the amulet he found that keeps him from being killed has to be destroyed. When he does it, "returning essence lost from those undead in graves" is what Lucas believes to mean all vampires will regain their souls. Hannibal is excited by this prospect. Lucas reminds him he only became a vampire to ensure he would live to see his wife and son again, and has been searching for a loophole in that Faustian bargain. This seems to be it. Now, they're on the salted Earth, Lucas is the father freed by the son before he was born, they've got Vlad's remains (the splinter from the stake in issue 1). All Blade has to do is break the vial containing the splinter, put it on the ground, smash the amulet, and all vamps, Blade included, get back their souls. After thinking about it for a moment or so, Blade refuses. If he does this, it means no vampire can ever be killed again. Lucas appeals to him as his father, and fails. So he has his men bring out Jamal Afari, whom they captured, and will stake unless Blade does as the prophecy says. Hannibal won't help Blade rescue Jamal, since he wants his soul back as well. He sees Blade as being selfish, since he can see the sun rise and doesn't know what it's like to be a REAL vampire. So Hannibal and Blade do battle, and without a choice, Blade stakes the vampire detective, turning him to ashes in an instant, leaving only his cheesy hat behind. Who's next?! 


Flashbacks: 1) "Three weeks ago", in Washington DC, Lucas Cross is informed by Manning of Blade & King's recent locations, and what they've been looking for. Though Lucas thinks they're looking for Dracula, he's surprised to learn they're after Jamal Afari, who was turned into a vampire and killed by Blade years ago. Realizing Dracula used the Espil Shade to bring Jamal back, and that Vlad is meaning to bring about the prophecy himself, Lucas hopes to turn his involvement into his advantage. 

Flashback within flashback: Blade and Hannibal King go on a world tour, attacking vampires while seeking out Jamal Afari. I cover the specifics below. 

2) London. Sometime after Jamal Afari was killed. Blade goes through his mentor's belongings and keeps a few items. He's going after Dracula to get revenge, making this the second time he's left England, and he fully is prepared to never come back as a result. 

3) Two panels. World War II, somewhere in Europe, as fighting planes fly past, Blade (in what seems to be a General or other officer's uniform) holds a female vampire over the side of a rooftop by her ankle. He's interrogating her, looking for Dracula. 

4) Single panel. 1950s. Blade in a patterned suit with clean cut hair, in a motel parking lot, fighting a leather-jacket clad vampire tough guy. He's building up his rep as he searches for Drac. 

5) Single panel. 1960s, Blade has an afro and one of those long-sided mustaches of the period. Not to mention psychadelic patterned shirt. He's interrogating a long-sideburned vampire with an earring out in the street somewhere. 

6) What, according to TOD 30 should be 1969 (but could be retconned now to be in the 70s), Blade walks along the Great Wall of China, and encounters, in Tibet, Ogun, Azu, Musenda, and Orji. Blade catches Orji's teakwood daggers in midair and uses them to threaten Ogun and Musenda. Orji is impressed, never having seen anyone do that with his blades before, thus Eric Brooks earns the name of Blade. 

7) Single panel. Young Vlad Tepes, meaning Drac when he was a man and prior to being the caped ghoul we all know and loathe, salting the Earth around his home. We don't see fangs, so presumably this is prior to becoming a vampire. 

8) Sometime around FB 6, Cloudy day in the Tibeten mountains. Blade, Orji, Musenda and Azu sitting around in a circle in a cave, listening to Ogun discussing the facts of what can kill a vampire, specifically due to the fact they lack souls. Blade, already aware of the point (the importance of the lack of souls as to why vampires have vulnerablities to holy water,sunlight, garlic, silver, and wood through the heart), knows Dracula is nearby and wants their help in his killing of the Count. 



Continuity notes: I had a heck of a time, not only finding Blade's buddies' full names, but finding exactly when they were revealed (when we saw Musenda in modern times in TOD 58, to be specific). 

Would you believe this is Hannibal's fourth death? The first being his getting turned into a vampire by Frost, the second was Switchblade killing him during "Midnight Massacre", and the third was during the final issue of Nightstalkers. 


Goofs: Lucas claims Blade has been searching all over the world for the "past three weeks" for Jamal. Yet, the flashback to "three weeks ago" has Lucas being informed of the many places Blade's visited in his search. Either the flashback is to, like, the day before, or Blade covered some serious ground during his first week of searching. 

Orji's name is misspelled as "Orij" in this issue. Repeatedly. Perhaps they're trying to retcon him to sound less like a porno villain. 

Probably the biggest retcon here involves having Orji give Blade his nickname. It means all the stories we have that take place before TOD 30-FB, including the stuff in this issue involving Blade making a name for himself among the vampire community on par with Dracula, have him going around just being Eric Brooks. It's really some big weight they're now putting on his real name, which didn't exist in the MU before this decade. 

Should I even bother mentioning how the cover is misleading, since Blade and Lucas never once fight in this issue or next? 


Calendar notes: Blade hasn't been back to his place in "months". Blade killed Jamal "decades ago". The Elementary school incident with Spidey was "11 months ago". Lucas says Blade got the amulet "a few weeks ago". 

Page 0: Recap page, again with the full printout of the prophecy. 
Pages 1-3: Night in Manhattan. Blade has returned home from his world tour, his first night home in months. Lucas Cross and his armed guards appear, recapping events and informing his son that he knows where Jamal Afari is. 
Pages 4-6: FB, "Three weeks ago". Night in Washington, D.C. Fully green trees. Lucas is informed by his aid of Blade's recent exploits, from his visit to La Crosse, Kansas, to the meeting with Spidey in NY, to the stuff I'm mentioning here next. Lucas is now aware that Dracula is involved in making the prophecy come true on his own. 
Page 5 panel 1: FB within FB. Blade and Hannibal in Florence, fighting vampires and searching for Jamal Afari on the streets at night. 
Page 5 panel 2: FB within FB. Blade and Hannibal in Berlin, fighting vampires and searching for Jamal Afari on the streets at night. 
Page 5 panel 3: FB within FB. Blade and Hannibal in Prague, fighting vampires and searching for Jamal Afari on the streets at night. 
Page 5 panel 4: FB within FB. Blade and Hannibal in uhhh someplace with a funky fish water statue, searching for Jamal Afari on the streets at night. 
Page 6 panel 1: FB within FB. Blade and Hannibal in Paris, searching for Jamal Afari at night and roughing up a vamp in front of the Eiffle tower. Green trees. 
Page 7: FB. Decades back, Blade mourns Jamal in his house. He packs up some of his mentor's weapons and sets out to hunt down Dracula. 
Page 8-9: Hannibal & Blade fly with Lucas on his private jet to Transylvania. Lucas mentions the fact Jamal will be at their destination. 
Page 10, panel 1 & 2: Blade during WWII, in a General or other officer's uniform, holding a female vamp by her leg over the side of a roof while bombers pass by in the background. 
Page 10, panel 3: FB. The 1950s. Blade in what looks like maybe the USA, attacking a leather-jacketed vampire in a motel parking lot. Blade's got short hair with a patterned kind of dress suit on. 
Page 10, panel 4: FB. The 1960s. Blade stakes a vamp with really bushy sideburns. Blade has a bit of an afro, as well as one of those long porno mustaches and psychadellic patterns on his shirt. 
Page 10 panel 5 through page 11: FB. Presumably the 1970s. Clean cut Blade, with kind of middle sized hair, I guess. He's got on his traditional button trench coat on. 
Page 12-16: Night. Lucas, Blade, and Hannibal arrive at the tourist attraction, Count Dracula's Castle. There, they discuss the particulars of the prophecy. Blade is told to smash the amulet, drop Drac's splinter on the salted earth, and all vampires will regain their souls. He refuses. 
Page 12 panel 3: FB. Long ago, Count Vlad Tepes salting the earth around his castle. 
Page 16 panel 5: Identical panel to page 13 panel 4 of BLADE8 1, with dialogue trunicated. Thus, nothing new, just a generic recollection flashback. 
Page 17: FB. Not long after where the page 11 FB left off. Blade, Orji, Musenda and Azu sitting around one day in the mountains of Tibet, listening to Ogun. 
Pages 18-22: Lucas' men bring out Jamal, and threaten to stake him if Blade doesn't do it. Hannibal turns on Blade, they fight, and Hannibal King is staked in the heart, turning to dust. 

------------------------------------ 
BLADE VOL 3 #12 [October 2007] 
"A Stake Through The Heart" 
Writer: Marc Guggenheim 
Art (pgs 1-21): Howard Chaykin 
Art (pgs 22-23): Gene Colan 
Flashback material based on the work of Marv Wolfman and Gene Colan-- To whom this series is fondly dedicated. 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS (also in FB) 
CROSS, LUCAS
KING, HANNIBAL
AFARI, JAMAL 
STRONG, OGUN (FB only) 
N'DAMMEN, AZU (FB only) 
MUSENDA (FB only) 
JONES, ORJI (FB only) 
DRACULA/VLAD TEPES (also in FB) 
FROST, DEACON 
BARON BLOOD [identity currently undetermined] 
GLORY [identity currently undetermined] 
DRACONIS 
CROSS, TARA 


Other characters: 
Vampire SHIELD agents (from issue 1 of this run) 
Vampire clowns (from issue 2) 
Yellow Kid vampire (from issue 5) 
Three other vampires 


Summary: Blade takes down Lucas' men with ease, only to get stabbed through the shoulder by a katana. Count Dracula has returned to Blade one of his swords the hard way. Drac, now wearing a red leather outfit and sporting a modern hairstyle, is apparently working with Lucas Cross, and intentionally missed all vital organs in stabbing Cross' son. As Lucas explain, Vlad has been working on the prophecy for centuries, and the reason he brought Jamal back using the Espil Shade spell was because he was rumored to have known where the amulet was before he died. Despite the spell allowing him to revive vamps he's made and forcing them to be his slaves, Jamal managed to have enough willpower to trick Drac into thinking the amulet was in New York, instead of London. Dracula strangles Jamal in retaliation, Blade uses his sword to try to help his mentor, but since Drac knows his moves to well, he dodges swiftly. Now gripping Blade instead, Vlad yanks off the amulet and crushes it within his hand. Blade unloads his gun-hand at Drac, who turns into a bat and avoids the bullets, before popping up behind him. Grabbing Blade from behind is identical to the situation around when they first met, when Blade grabbed Drac by surprise during their cave fight (covered in the FB). With the Daywalker held by his neck in the air, Lucas hands over the splinter to Dracula. Blade reminds his father that Drac doesn't want a soul, he was pretty damn evil BEFORE losing it, after all. What Vlad really gets out of the prophecy isn't explained, since Blade realizes Drac can't harm him for fear of not bringing it about. So, instead, Drac starts beating the tar out of Jamal. Lucas tries to hold back his son, and gets shoved aside by Blade, causing Lucas to lose hold of the vial with the splinter in it. Blade tries to stop it from hitting the ground, but he fails. The prophecy is fulfilled when the splinter hits the ground. Lucas is amazed, but discovers he feels no different. Blade points out that "dad" lost, he didn't get his soul back. It turns out, something DID happen as a result... Hannibal King is back! Naked and holding his hat over his crotch, the vampire detective is confused. Blade's even more stunned, and gets sucker punched by his partner in response to his killing him! Dracula is pleased, what happened is exactly as he expected, entirely the contrary of what Lucas wanted. "Returning essence lost from those undead in graves", with "essence" not being soul, but life! This means every vampire ever killed by Blade, or anyone, is now back to life... err, unlife... ehh, undeath. All around the world, vampires are back, right on the spots where they were wasted (I suppose any who popped out someplace where the sun was up were killed off just as quickly as they came back, so that's a plus for humanity). Lucas falls to his knees, agonized and apologizing for being wrong. Blade, Jamal, and Hannibal prepare to take on Dracula, but the count calls in a favor. As per his letting him life that night in the cave, Blade lets Dracula turn into a bat and escape. Hannibal calls Blade a jerk and heads off to find some pants. While leaving, Blade decides to let Lucas live, since living with all he's caused is a worse hell than he knows is waiting for his father. 

Some time later, at Dougherty's Bar & Grill, Blade finds Hannibal sitting at the bar and despite the animosity remaining, sits beside him. Hannibal is still annoyed by the fact Blade didn't even try to help him out in getting a soul, whether it worked or not. So Blade hands Hannibal the vial of green potion given to him by Dr Doom. It'll remove his hunger for blood. When asked why he doesn't use it himself, well, Blade bares his fangs and happily mentions that it also robs a vampire hunter of their bloodlust, and with all these vampires back in action? He's gonna need all the bloodlust he can handle. 


Flashback: Back to the period we left off in last issue's FB. In a cave in the mountains of Tibet, Dracula fights with Blade. During the battle, Ogun tries to help him out with his brute strength, but gets his throat slashed by Drac's claws. Next, Dracula bites into Musenda's neck. Orji rushes in and tosses some of his wooden blades, only to have Drac catch one and fling it back, stabbing him through the heart with it. Blade continues fighting the Lord of the Vampires, and ends up getting his hand, holding a teakwood dagger, redirected by Drac right into Azu's chest! The seeming deaths of his partners happening in less than thirty seconds, Blade is prepared to die. But despite having the upper hand, Dracula wants him to suffer (giving him the same "hell I know is waiting for you" thing Blade would later give Lucas in this issue's main tale), and is going to let him live. But, he notes that one day Blade will be in a position to spare Drac's life, and he'll be honor bound to let him go as a result of this. Once Dracula departs the cave, Blade is left with his teammate's dead bodies, and teeth-gnashing rage. He turns the anger into vengeance, and proceeds to take items from his dead pals: Ogun's wrist bands, Musenda's boots, Azu's belt, Orji's wooden daggers, and from his mentor's belongings, Jamal Afari's goggles. Wearing all of it, Blade slashes his sword in the air and vows to carry the five men who were his teachers with him forever. Kinda ironic since he hasn't worn any of those items in about a decade... 


Continuity notes: As of this issue, the status quo for the Marvel Universe is the direct opposite of that concerning the Montesi Formula: every vampire ever killed is now back to life... err, unlife, rather. Unless there's a "World War Dracula" mini coming up I don't know about, this ought to be something important to other books, yet likely will be ignored. At least it'll keep the handbook and appendix guys as busy as vamps counting grains of sand. 

I've asked Guggenheim for some clarification on the resurrected vamps shown in the issue. If I hear back from him, I'll update this. 

Which Baron Blood is brought back to life here? Well, the original was magically restored by Bendising (aka "ignoring prior stories and using characters clearly dead for crowd shots". See Blackout, Jigsaw, etc.) So it shouldn't be him (unless that one was a Skrull). It could be the second. The third, Kenneth Crichton, from the first Union Jack mini, didn't wear a costume as this one did, so it's likely not him. 

It's possible the woman I identified as Glory could very well be Rachel Van Helsing, since her location looks a lot like where she was staked by Wolverine years ago. 

Blade still is missing his left hand. Depending on the writer, this could very well be the last time he lacks it. 



Goofs: The flashback tries to claim Blade was the sole survivor of the band of vampire hunters during their first fight with Drac. Yet, TOD 30 established that Drac merely killed two of them when he returned to the cave, and he got another one later. TOD 58 even features Musenda, years later! I guess we can just expect that right after the last page of the FB, Musenda and two of the others woke up, demanding Blade give them back their belongings. 

Orji's name is again spelled "Orij". Is this the official Marvel spelling now? 

Not only is Blade taking the still-living Musenda's boots silly since... well, he's still alive... the only time we see Musenda's feet was in the previous issue, and he, like all his pals, only wore sandals! 

Blade's old goggles are supposed to have once been Jamal's, yet the design, style, and material they're made of doesn't fit anything being worn nor made in the 1930s. 

No matter which Baron Blood it is, it's kind of odd that he's got his costume back so quickly. Same goes for everyone else, considering Hannibal came back to life naked (as did Tara). 

Hey, the splinter didn't touch 'salted earth', it touched a stone slab street. Should it even count?! 


Calendar notes: The majority of this issue takes place in Transylvania, so climate isn't a factor that much (not that we get any real idea of it anyway). The two pages that aren't in Drac's homeland are indoors and at night, so, again (and the revived vamp shots are all over the world and aren't too specific on calendar-related details). No moon ever visible, the sky's barely even shown, anyway. 

Page 0: Recap. 
Pages 1-5, 6 (dialogue), 7-13, 14 (dialogue), 15, 18: The Dracula's castle setting, continued from last issue. Blade takes down Cross' men, then gets stabbed by Dracula. Fight fight, Jamal is threatened, amulet destroyed, Blade bumps into Lucas, the splinter hits the ground, the prophecy comes true, Hannibal and all vampires ever come back to life. Dracula holds Blade to his promise years ago and departs unharmed. 
Page 3, panel 2: Identical shot from issue 10's FB of caped Jamal smashing ground as school while Vlad looked on. Nothing new here. 
Page 6, 16-17, 21-23: FB. Blade vs Dracula in the cave in Tibet. Ogun, Musenda, Azu, and Orji are all killed. Drac lets Blade live, but will require he return the favor someday. Blade, now focused on vengeance, takes some items from his dead friends, and becomes the vampire hunter we all remember from his first appearance. 
Page 14, panel 1: In Wisconsin, numerous SHIELD agent vampires appear on the farm where their Helicarrier went down in issue 1. Night. 
Page 14, panel 2: Night. A cemetary somewhere. Deacon Frost appears to be crawling out of a grave, without any dirt on his lovely suit. 
Page 14, panel 3: Inside of that one place they were killed at in issue 2, the vampire clowns are happy to be back. 
Page 14, panel 4: Night, overlooking the city, Baron Blood just stares at us. 
Page 14, panel 5: Night, cloudy, on a cliff in the mountains, a blonde female vampire (likely Glory, maybe Rachel Van Helsing) 
Page 14, panel 6: Night, London, Draconis is smack dab in the middle of the city. 
Page 14, panel 7: Night, also London, Tara Brooks is not only undead again, but she's unburied and wandering around the cemetary naked! 
Page 14, panel 8: Night, New York City. The Yellow Kid vampire is on the prowl again. 
Page 14, panel 9: Night, uhh, some city with horse statues atop a building. Three generic vampires are hanging out. 
Pages 19-20: An unknown amount of time later, in Dougherty's Bar & Grill in some city (most likely in the US, considering how the cars are parked on the street), Hannibal is at a bar when Blade drops by and gives him Doom's vampire hunger cure potion. Night. 
Page 20, panel 2: Identical shot of Dr Doom giving Blade the potion from issue 2. 

------------------------------------ 


BLADE/ERIC BROOKS 
... 
BLADE8 7-FB 
**BLADE8 10-FB 
**BLADE8 10-FB (19:3-4) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (35:3) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (20:1) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (35:4) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (35:5-7) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (20:5-21:1) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (36:2) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (21:2-3) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (36:3) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (21:4) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (36:4) 
BLADE 6-FB 
[M/PRV 3-FB]-moved up, so remove this placement 
**BLADE8 11-FB 
TOD 30-FB 
**BLADE8 12-FB 
M/PRV 3-FB 
... 
TOD4 4 
**BLADE8 10-FB 
BLADE8 1 
... 
BLADE8 9 
**BLADE8 10 
**BLADE8 11-FB-FB 
**BLADE8 11 
**BLADE8 12 


CROSS, LUCAS 
... 
BLADE8 8 
**BLADE8 10 
**BLADE8 11-FB 
**BLADE8 11 
**BLADE8 12 


SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER 
... 
**BLADE8 10-FB 
**BLADE8 1 (red & blue costume) 
... 
**BLADE8 10 (black costume) 
... 

KING, HANNIBAL 
... 
BLADE8 9 
**BLADE8 10 
**BLADE8 11-FB-FB 
**BLADE8 11 
**BLADE8 12 

GLORY 
... 
BLADE8 7-FB 
**BLADE8 10-FB 
{BLADE 6-FB} 
**BLADE8 12? 


AFARI, JAMAL 
BLADE8 1-FB 
{M/PRV 3-FB} 
BLADE8 3-FB 
**BLADE8 10-FB (19:3-4) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (35:3) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (20:1) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (35:4) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (35:5-7) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (20:5-21:1) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (36:2) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (21:2-3) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (36:3) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (21:4) 
**M/PRV 3-FB (36:4) 
**BLADE8 10-FB 
**BLADE8 11 
**BLADE8 12 


DRACULA/VLAD TEPES 
TOD MAG 5-FB 
TOD MAG 5-FB 
DRSTR3 37-FB 
**BLADE8 11-FB 
DL 2 
BIZADV 33/4 
... 
INV 9-FB 
DL 2/3 
**M/PRV 3-FB-BTS (moved up) 
M/CP 77/3 
M/CP 78/2 
M/CP 79/2 
DRSTR3 8/2 
TOD 33-FB 
TOD 20-FB 
[M/PRV 3-FB-BTS]-move up 
TOD 40-FB 
TOD 30-FB 
**BLADE8 12-FB 
TOD 29-FB 
... 
TOD4 4 
**BLADE8 10-FB 
BLADE8 1 
**BLADE8 12 


PARKER, BEN 
[ASM 370/2-FB]-remove, has no appearances prior to meeting dating May 
ASM 147-FB 
**ASM 370/2-FB (Ben brings his brother Richard on a date) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (Ben and May on their Honeymoon) 
**ASM 370/2-FB (Richard and Mary's wedding) 
UTSM -1-FB 
ASM@ 5 (11:2 - 11:3)-FB-FB 
... 


PARKER, MAY REILLY 
... 
ASM 370/2-FB (Ben brings his brother Richard on a date) 
**BLADE8 10-FB (Ben and May on their Honeymoon) 
ASM 370/2-FB (Richard and Mary's wedding) 
... 


**FRACTURE 
BLADE8 10 

**STRONG, OGUN 
BLADE8 11-FB 
{TOD 30-FB} 
BLADE8 12-FB 

**N'DAMMEN, AZU 
BLADE8 11-FB 
{TOD 30-FB} 
BLADE8 12-FB 

**MUSENDA 
BLADE8 11-FB 
{TOD 30-FB} 
BLADE8 12-FB 
TOD 58 

**JONES, ORJI 
BLADE8 11-FB 
{TOD 30-FB} 
BLADE8 12-FB 

FROST, DEACON 
... 
TOD4 4 
**BLADE8 12 

DRACONIS 
... 
BLADE8 8 
**BLADE8 12 

CROSS, TARA 
... 
BLADE8 9 
**BLADE8 12

Last edited by JLH on 20 Aug 2007 04:45 am, edited 3 times in total. 

			*	*	*

24 Jul 2007 10:26 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

JLH, is it fair to say that the current portion of issue #10 takes place over three consecutive days -- pages 1-7, page 8, and pages 9-22?

Paul B.

			*	*	*

19 Aug 2007 01:00 am 
By JLH

Sure. I mean, I could see two of the events happening in one night, but all three? Nah. 

I've added issues 11 and 12 now to the my first, completing the series. Also, I tweaked 10 slightly (I no longer believe Drac was the one who attacked Ben & May, since Blade claimed to have never met him in issue 11). 

Next up, Tomb of Dracula vol 3!

			*	*	*

19 Aug 2007 02:54 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

I really, really liked those last two pages of issue twelve. They brought joy to my soul. 

And you're probably right about that being the second Baron Blood. 


JLH wrote:
>>>
Next up, Tomb of Dracula vol 3!
<<<

Yay!

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

20 Aug 2007 07:40 pm 
By Enda80

"As of this issue, the status quo for the Marvel Universe is the direct opposite of that concerning the Montesi Formula: every vampire ever killed is now back to life... err, unlife, rather. Unless there's a "World War Dracula" mini coming up I don't know about, this ought to be something important to other books, yet likely will be ignored. At least it'll keep the handbook and appendix guys as busy as vamps counting grains of sand. " 

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/montesi.htm 
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/topherrunaways.htm 
Curiously, many vampires stated to have been turned into vampires diagetically before the casting of the Montesi Formula appeared in stories set after the Montesi Formula was cast, with the issue of whether or not they had an interrupted existance not addressed. 

In the Morbius story in Amazing Fantasy#17, a vampire named "Lord Falsworth" appears. Is this Ken Crichton back from the dead, active again as Baron Blood? I don't have a clue.

			*	*	*

21 Aug 2007 10:18 am 
By jephyork
Director

Every time you say "diagetically", my soul hurts. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

22 Aug 2007 10:58 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

My stomach hurts. I find the word rather "undiagestable."

Paul B.

			*	*	*

23 Aug 2007 04:21 pm 
By jephyork
Director

But will he stop? Heck no. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 42

Subject: Blade (Vampire Hunter; 1999) #1-6 & 

23 Aug 2007 07:44 am 
By JLH

The Bart Sears catalogue serves as an ending to the "unanalyzed Blade series" for the MCP! 

------------------------------------ 
BLADE: VAMPIRE HUNTER #1 [December 1999] 
"Chaos, Part One: The Dead Walk"/"Chaos, Part Two: Questions?" 
Story and Art: Bart Sears 
Inks (Pgs 1-3): Raymond Kryssing 
Finishes: Andy Smith 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS
SCRIBE
HROLF
DALLAS, COMMANDER FRANK
VENGINIAN, DARIUS
BOY
SARACEN II
MIKADO
MOSHA
TINKER
RANK 
FURY, COL. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH (BTS) 
PATRIOT II (semi-shadowed) 

Other characters: 
Fatboy (vampire. Dies) 
Maracen (head of a guy Saracen knew) 
Paul, Lt. Nathan (team leader of Silverfang 1. Dies) 
Mills, Herbert (SHIELD/Silvereye agent) 
Spencer, Joe (SHIELD/Silvereye agent) 


Summary: So, the whole series is narrated by a character called Scribe, who uses one of several severed heads hanging on his belt to talk to us, since his mouth is sewn shut. He never appears in-story, and thus, isn't even worth mentioning. Scribe uses the word "woe" a whole hell of a lot, and talks in such bogged down riddles that it's no wonder this book got canned. Anyway, one night, early in the evening in New York City, a vampire aptly named Fatboy and a friend dig up the body of Blade from a grave marked Eric Brooks. All of this is being monitored from afar by a group called Silvereye, a covert faction of S.H.I.E.L.D. authorized by the President to deal with the growing vampyre menace. They're stationed in a flying destroyer called Black Eye, which is up above the city currently. Commander Frank Dallas runs Silvereye, and is in turn under the control of Darius Venginian, a shadowy fellow who smokes, appears on a viewscreen, and talks psychically right into Dallas' head, causing the poor guy some eye-bleeding problems. Anyway, Dallas authorizes Silvereye to awaken Blade, which they do however it is they do it from afar. He awakens and attacks the two vamps, only to encounter their master, a large mongrel vampyre who has armored arms and big guns and red hair. Seems Hrolf, as we later learn, is actually a double-agent working for both Silvereye and the vampires. Or something like that. Anyway, he's got lots of vampyre pals there to help him bring Blade in to the "big man". So, lots of fighting occurs, mostly the vamps getting hit. Suddenly, a legless guy named Tinker pops up and throws Blade his sword. Blade goes all bullet time and grabs it, slashing down lots of vampires and soon, when Tinker is attacked by Fatboy, he kills fatty and takes his sunglasses. Tinker urges Blade to hurry and follow him, as he's pulled underground by zombie hands. For whatever reasons, Darius, CEO of a corporation called Diva, decides to hop in a jet, mumbling about chaos. So, back at the cemetary, Blade's newly exposed fangs are dwelled upon by Hrolf, who gets nearly killed by the Daywalker. But Silverfang, an elite ops squad of Silvereye, makes the scene, blasting the vampires with garlic and crap of the like. But, as we learn, Silverfang team 1 has some vampyre working within it, and instead of being there to take down vamps, they're trying to kill Blade! Luckily, superjump is one of Blade's new powers, which he uses to take them by surprise and kill 'em good. Dallas is concerned about the way the whole operation is falling apart, still unaware of the fact he's got the enemy infiltrated in his own force, but is adamant on the fact that if they don't have Blade with them, Silvereye's doomed. So Dallas has the "simulation" shut down, worrying that "he'll" become a vegtable as a result. Oh, and Blade gets sucked underground by the zombie hands, just like Tinker. Back at Blackeye, agent Herbert Mills notes the strange eyebleeding the Commander is having, and other items of plot interest, to the disinterested, by-the-rules fellow agent, Joe Spencer. 

As for the subplots, a pair of Japanese twins named Mosha and Mikado sneak aboard the Black Eye, believing Blade to currently be held aboard the ship, getting brainwashed. We learn from their infiltration that Silvereye has numerous members who are actually vampyre in disguise! The twins implant a virus in the ship's systems, and barely manage to escape out to the hull of Blackeye, where they use magnetic clamps to climb around. They're unable to get back inside, before a giant beast thing called a "dog" is unleashed by Silvereye. But, since they're horribly cliched Japanese warrior girls, they manage to kill it while paracuting to safety together. They've no choice but to go back to rescue Blade. 

Also, below the Vatican is an ancient vampire named Saracen. He's been asleep for a long while, but recently was awoken. He's got a nice place with lots of people to bite. This bald young vampire fellow, aptly named Boy, shows up and apparently works for someone called "the Old Devil". He's given Saracen back the head of Maracen, which had been preserved in essence of garlic with silver flakes to keep his body from growing back. All of this as a sign that "Old Devil" is back in the "game", and wants Saracen. So, Saracen responds in kind by preparing the summoning of the Reaper. He next goes, with Boy, all under the watch of Silvereye agents from the shadows, to the Roman Coliseum in Italy. Seems that the supposed Reaper lies beneath it. 


Flashback: There's a remembrance montage, really generically: shadowed Deacon Frost with (a 70s style) Tara Cross; Heads of Blade with goggles, Rachel Van Helsing, Frank Drake, Quincy Harker, Hannibal King, Dr Strange, Morbius, and Spider-Man. Sot of Blade on a motorcycle (essentially a nod to the movie version), and a bust-shot of Blade as he is now, a drooling vamp. 


Continuity notes: This is both the first time Blade is called Eric Brooks in an in-continuity comic, but it's also the first time the term "Daywalker" is ever used (prior, the closest had been Marv Wolfman's use of "Sunwalker" for the formula in Marvel Team-Up vol 2 #7). 

There are numerous references, both in-story and via the masthead write-up, of Blade now having vampiric powers due to being bitten by the genetically altered Morbius. Guggenheim later tries to downplay these remarks to help his retcon of Blade always having been a blood-drinker with fangs fit. But, at the very least it provides a toe-hold as to this series' placement. 

Starting with this issue, Blade will have tattoos on the back of his head for a few years, just like his movie counterpart. They'll eventually disappear with just as little attention as adding them entailed. 

Also, Blade now has an unexplained new power, which allows time to slow down for everyone but him as he does fancy moves and crap. Yes, he basically got a little bit of the Matrix's bullet time accidentally added to him in the transfer of aspects from his movie countpart. It'll be gone as soon as this series is. 

There's mention of Colonel Fury (Darius mentally tells his secretary to inform him that all is well), and Stark/Fujikawa (she's to cancel his meeting with them). 


Goofs: I list the title of the series as "Blade: Vampire Hunter", due to the fact the indica calls it that, as does the logo on the masthead. Yet, the cover uses the same movie-font logo as the previous series did, and fails to include the subtitle of "Vampire Hunter"! 

It's never explained why Blade is buried when the book starts. The closest rationalization we get is that he had broken away from Silvereye and was in hiding, but the fact he was buried under a tombstone with his NAME on it comes across as pretty stupid. 


Calendar notes: Bare trees in the cemetary. Lots of clouds over NYC. 


------------------------------------ 
BLADE: VAMPIRE HUNTER #2 [January 2000] 
"Chaos, Part Three: Weirder and Weirder" 
Story and Art: Bart Sears 
Finishes: Andy Smith 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS
SCRIBE
SARACEN II
REAPER III
BOY
TINKER
RANK
MIKADO
MOSHA
VENGINIAN, DARIUS
FURY, COL. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH
HROLF
FREAK III/
DALLAS, COMMANDER FRANK
PATRIOT II 

Other characters: 
Reaper's Curs (three women creatures semi-attached to Reaper) 
President of the United States of America (BTS. Most likely Clinton) 
Mills, Herbert 
Spencer, Joe 
Miss Maples (dies) 


Summary: Turns out, Blade was pulled under by Rank, who happens to be a partner of his and Tinker's, who is already in the tunnels below, waiting for him. Blade's got amnesia, thanks to Silvereye's experiments on him, and has been missing from his little band of vampire hunters for a while now. Rank, as it turns out, is zombie-like in physicality thanks to getting bit by a vampire yet not being a standard vampire. Blade cut off his hand, and the poor fellow manages to put it back on afterwards. Still confused, Blade leaves the tunnels, with Tinker following behind, and Rank is left fleeing from the Silverfang agents. 

Elsewhere, Saracen summons up the Reaper, a giant blob of flesh and such. That "Old One" he hates? Well, he's got a thing about prophecies, which keep coming true, including that of the Daywalker. Saracen refuses to let more happen, and orders Reaper to kill Blade. 

In Washington DC, the White House specifically, Darius Venginian meets with a staff member at the behest of the President. Nick Fury is also there. There's much concern over the virus attack on Silvereye's craft, Blackeye. Darius uses his mental powers to try to assure them that everything is fine with Silvereye, though Nick is less than impressed and storms off. 

Back at the cemetary, Blade hunts down Hrolf. All of the vampyre are taken care off by Silverfang, and when Blade pops up, targeting Hrolf, revealed here to be part of Silvereye, the organization activates the Freak. The Freak, as we see, is a bald fellow in a green and yellow costume with large devices attached to his head. He's the one seemingly behind much of Blade's brainwashing, and does so directly here. Blade is led to believe he himself created Silvereye in an effort to combat the growing Vampyre menace. He's also lulled into believing Hrolf is his friend and ally! So, mentally controlled again, Blade is taken away by Silverfang's crafts. Tinker tries to stop his buddy, but ends up captured by Silverfang and that's the last we ever see of him. 

Over in Rome, we get an education on vampyre, the pureblood and mongrel. It's utterly inconsequential, though. Anyway (do I say that enough?), another team of Silverfang agents storm in, attack Boy, who uses bullet time powers of his own, and quickly they flee. Unfortunately, they all get eaten by the Reaper. 

Once more in Washington, some lady named Miss Maples confronts Darius, claiming he's a vampire. Turns out he probably is. He uses his mental powers, knocks her out, and has his bodyguards turn into werewolves and eat her up. The staff guy apologizes to Darius on behalf of the President, who was away and regrets not seeing him again. 

Back on Blackeye, Mosha and Mikado infilrate the secret inner labs of Silvereye, finding, yet again, some vampyre sleeper agents. But, despite their virus attack temporarily threatening the ship and having now been fixed, they've at last found the large tube with water in it, featuring a man's nearly-naked body hooked up to wires. They believe it to be Blade. 


Continuity notes: Also features the "Fast Lane" insert, part 2. Just thought I'd mention that, since I have nothing else to say. 


Goofs: A character named Damien is "introduced" in one of the profile side-panels, and it's mentioned "we won't even meet him for several months". Can I claim this is false advertising? 

Tinker claims he thinks Rank became so different because he never drank blood. Yet, Hannibal King went quite a long while without it, and was fine! 


Calendar notes: Still the same night as before. It's even night in Rome, for the record. 


------------------------------------ 
BLADE: VAMPIRE HUNTER #3 [February 2000] 
"Chaos, Part 4: The Hunger" 
Story and Art: Bart Sears 
Finishes: Bill Sienkiewicz 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS
SCRIBE
MIKADO
MOSHA
PATRIOT II
VENGINIAN, DARIUS
DALLAS, COMMANDER FRANK
HROLF
RANK
SARACEN II
BOY
REAPER III
FREAK III/
FROST, DEACON 

Other characters: 
Mills, Herbert 
Spencer, Joe 


Summary: So, Mosha and Mikado have rescued Blade. Only it's not Blade, it's a bald white guy. Commander Dallas continues to bleed from his eyes as Darius talks to him directly into his mind (and controls him a little, too, obviously). Herbert continues to point it out to Joe. Hrolf is awoken from his nap and feasting on some girl in his quarters by Dallas, since Blade has "gone missing" coincidentally at the same time the twins broke out baldy. What do ya know, Blade's wearing a Silverfang uniform and is currently believing the lies he's been brainwashed to believe. He's down in the lab, preparing to fight the twins! Meanwhile, Darius drinks some blood and prepares to meet up with the ship. Rank continues fleeing from the troops, all the while mourning Tinker. Boy commends Saracen on the Reaper turning out to be real. Reaper apparently has taken Silverfang's craft and is flying back after Blade. So, back at the lab, the twins try to get through to Blade, but he doesn't buy it and smacks them around considerably, though they do get in a shot or two. Hrolf shows up, and urges Freak to lay on the brainwashing, pushing Blade to kill the twins. Mikado is especially angered when Mosha is taken down, but she, too, falls, and this time, is left to Blade, as the vampiric hunger finally strikes him. Hrolf gets some perverse pleasure out of seeing him like this, pushing Freak to make him bite into Mikado. Meanwhile, Deacon Frost gets off a Greyhound bus in the desert, just after sunset. 


Continuity notes: Deacon Frost is never actually identified, he's just a generic guy in a dark trenchcoat, more foreshadowing for things that never happen. Bart Sears later revealed his identity on a website or two. 

Mikado gets cut on her face in this issue, leaving a scar that'll be with her well into the future, as seen in the possible future of Blade #One Half. 


Calendar notes: Darius says he'll rendezvous with Blackeye 1 at 5:10am over Jersey City. Otherwise, it's still that same night. 


------------------------------------ 
BLADE: VAMPIRE HUNTER #4 [March 2000] 
"Chaos, Part 5: Frosty Memories" 
Story and Art: Bart Sears 
Finishes: Andy Smith 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS
SCRIBE
MIKADO
MOSHA
HROLF 
FREAK III/ (dies) 
PATRIOT II 
DALLAS, COMMANDER FRANK (dies) 
VENGINIAN, DARIUS
RANK
REAPER III
FROST, DEACON 

Other characters: 
Reaper's Curs 
Mills, Herbert 
Spencer, Joe (becomes Commander of Silvereye) 


Summary: Oh no, Blade's gonna bite Mikado! Ya know that guy the twins found in the tube? Well, he saves her. Why? Because he's the replacement version of the WWII hero the Patriot, with his mind overwritten by patterns and experiences of Blade himself! Yes, the bald white guy, still covered in a little bit o' green goo thinks he's Blade. But Blade's still better at being himself, even if he's not currently mentally all there. He knocks Patriot down, and then Hrolf beats the stuffing out of the old guy. Meanwhile, Rank hides from the Silverfang agents by ducking down with some corpses. He bemoans his lack of knowing what to do now that he's all alone. Anyway, back on Blackeye, Blade is unable to bite into Mikado, despite the mental pressure from Freak and peer pressure from Hrolf. What do ya know, though, Blade somehow recovers his memories, smells his arch enemy Deacon Frost on Hrolf. It helps keep Blade focused, and allows him to kill the Freak, who, it turns out, was a vampire. Hrolf and Blade have a duel, while Silverfang agents wait on the sidelines. They aren't getting orders, since Commander Dallas has finally had enough psionic manipulation and has seemingly suffered a full brain hemmorage. Guess who Darius Venginian picks to take his place? Why, our old pal Joe Spencer! He moves on up, eyes-a-bleeding, telling his men to gas the vamps and to blow out of the sky an incoming craft. The gas merely allows Blade and the twins to take Patriot and slip out on Hrolf and the agents. Well, the craft they were supposed to shoot down has instead landed on the hull, and it contained the Reaper, who has now invaded Blackeye! And elsewhere, Deacon Frost does his best Dark Tower impression of the Man in Black, and walks along the desert on no horse and no name if felt good to be out of the rain in the desert you can woe woe woe woe SHADDUP, SCRIBE! 


Flashback: Here we go again with the damn remembrance thing. Deacon Frost with a bitten lady at his side. Floating heads of Spidey, Morbius, Quincy Harker, Hannibal King, Dr Strange, and Deacon Frost. Also, there's a shot of a "bloated" Deacon Frost that only happened in the movie. 


Continuity notes: Also features the "Fast Lane" insert, part 3. There's also that infamous Bullpen Bits that parodies it in this same issue. 

So, we learn that the guy in the tank is the Patriot. It seems pretty clear that they intended him to be THE Patriot, Jeff Mace, but at last minute got overruled by someone higher up with some sense (how I miss those days). As it is, they fix it by saying he's a guy "modeled after the World War Two-Era Hero". He's also supposed to be "older", which possibly means he's been running around doing missions for many years, yet has never appeared before. Go figure. 

We learn here that Hrolf became a vampire by Deacon Frost. 


Goofs: Despite Reaper being in one of the Silverfang crafts, Silvereye agents are unable to identify it when it approaches. 


Calendar notes: Same night, still! At one point, Dallas remarks it's "24 minutes until sunrise". 

------------------------------------ 
BLADE: VAMPIRE HUNTER #5 [April 2000] 
"Chaos, Part 6: Reaper" 
Story: Bart Sears 
Pencils: Andy Smith 
Finishes: John Beatty, Bob McLeod, & Andy Smith 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS
SCRIBE
HROLF
REAPER III
MIKADO
MOSHA 
PATRIOT II (seemingly dies) 
VENGINIAN, DARIUS 

Other characters: 
Reaper's Curs (two die) 
Mills, Herbert (dies) 
Spencer, Joe 


Summary: Reaper attacks some Silverfang agents. Hrolf runs away like a little girl. Speaking of little girls, the twins beeline for their shuttle craft, along with the confused and injured Patriot. Mikado leaves behind an explosive device to deter anyone from following. Blade is actually just behind them, but aware of what they left. So when one of the Reaper's Curs appears, he tricks it into being right over the proximity bomb when it goes off. Darius learns of the Reaper's appearance, aware that Saracen is behind it, and changes his flight plans away from the Jersey City rendezvous, heading to Chicago instead. Blackeye's damaged and losing control, so Spencer aims the ship for the Jersey shores and has all Silvereye agents abandon ship. Reaper looks for Blade, but he's hanging outside on the hull of where the bomb went off. The twins lose Patriot, and backtrack to try to swipe one of the escape pods. But all of the ones in the hangar they find are damaged. Reaper finds the twins, but they're saved by Patriot, who went and got Blade's leather jacket, pants, sunglasses, and sword. He fights the Reaper, but is no match. Luckily, the real Blade pops back up, tosses a sunlight burst bomb at the creature, and slips out onto the hull again with Mosha and Mikado. They head, this time, for the craft Reaper came in, still attached. Reaper follows them, and it's Patriot who helps out, grabbing one of the Reaper's Curs, cutting her off from the creature, and plummeting with her off the side of Blackeye. That's it for him. Back inside, Spencer gets sick of Herbert's yakking and shoots him. Darius makes him then turn the mostly-abandoned Blackeye around to smash into the city instead, in an effort to destroy the Reaper. 

Goofs: Rank and Tinker appear as floating heads in the first page's generic Scribe recap, yet don't appear in the story. 


Calendar notes: Dawn's just coming up on the same night as the previous issues. 



------------------------------------ 
BLADE: VAMPIRE HUNTER #6 [May 2000] 
"Chaos, Part 7: Duel at Dawn" 
Story: Bart Sears 
Pencils: Andy Smith 
Finishes: John Beatty, Bob McLeod, & Andy Smith 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS
SCRIBE
MIKADO
MOSHA
REAPER III
VENGINIAN, DARIUS
RANK
HROLF
FROST, DEACON 

Other characters: 
Reaper's Cur (dies) 
Spencer, Joe (dies) 


Summary: Let's just get this over with, shall we? The twins escape in the craft. Blade goes back down into Blackeye, just as Commander Spencer blows his own brains out, and tries to steer the ship away from Jersey City. Reaper attacks while he's doing this, and the Blackeye crash lands in the cemetary from a previous issues, just in time to freak out Rank. Blade kills Reaper's final Cur, and they battle a lot, eventually leading outside. Elsewhere, Mikado and Mosha land their escape craft, and find a convieniently placed Shelby 69, which they steal. Meanwhile, Hrolf kills vampire Silvereye agents he was sharing an escape pod with, and exits it once it lands at the Diva complex in NYC. Back at the cemetary, fighty fight fight. Turns out, Blade was stalling Reaper until the sun came up, which it finally does. Blade keeps Reaper from digging a hole to escape from the dawn, burning the creature up. That last Cur pops up, still alive, slashes Blade, causing him to let the Reaper go. It goes underground, and Rank cuts off the Cur's head with a shovel. Rank, luckily, burns from sunlight at a slower rate than most vamps. All of a sudden, the twins show up in their stolen car, and hit the poor dope. Once he recovers, he informs them of Tinker's unfortunate capture. Blade likes the car, and takes the wheel as he and Rank hop in and ride off into the sunrise. Up in the air, Darius Venginian feasts on a flight attendant. And elsewhere, Deacon Frost has found a cave in the desert with lots of technological devices. Woe, woe, woe. Next issue, a giant question mark! 


Continuity notes: Also features the "Fast Lane" insert, part 4. 

According to one of the agents, Blackeye had only been up in the air a month. 


Goofs: Rank's skin tone seems to change from greenish to cacuasian. 


Calendar notes: It's sunrise at last, of that long-lasting night. I don't think we ever saw the moon. 


------------------------------------ 
BLADE # [1999] 
"Bane of the White Worm" 
Story and Art: Bart Sears 
Finishes: Bill Sienkiewicz 

Cast: 
BLADE/ERIC BROOKS
SCRIBE
FROST, DEACON
WHITE WORM/VIE MYRH 

Other characters: 
Rutger (also as "Bloodsbane" in future segment) 
Paulie 


Summary: One night, two young boys are sitting around with their skateboards, checking out each other's current trend card game special chase variant crap. One boy, Paulie, swipes the other's, Rut, and they playfully sorta chase each other. But somehow they end up finding the secret lab where Deacon Frost is bringing an undead creature from the slime of hell, called the White Worm, to life. Well, before the boys can be eaten, Blade pulls up on the scene in his fancy black car, much to the dismay of Frost. Blade's been hunting down his old foe, ya see. So, Frost, having yet perfected bringing back this creature, leaves the failed creation behind and teleports away. White Worm tries to eat the kids some more, but Blade shows up and does lots of fancy moves and cuts the beast in two. The confused and yet impressed boys are given a ride home in Blade's car, the Daywalker even stopping briefly to pick up Rut's missing card. 

We then jump into the future, where Blade's older, and he's got a white-haired and scar-faced Mikado at his side (Mosha long dead), and Rut has grown into a muscular vamp killer called Bloodsbane. They've track down the White Worm, having killed many of "him" over the years. Something about cutting him in half creates more, or something. Well, Bloodsbane sets the White Worm, this one being bloated and lazy, aflame. As we learn, one of the incarnations of it during the years hunted down Rut and Paulie and killed their family, thus he became a hunter. Or will become. Or would have become had this book not failed so miserably. 


Continuity notes: This was an exclusive mail-away item available only through Wizard #2000. 

It most likely takes place after the series it was a half for, since Blade has the 69 Shelby as his vehicle in it. 

Deacon Frost isn't named, and is in shadow the whole time, but, again, we know it's him. 

There's a brief sketchbook in the back. 


Goofs: Tinker, Rank, Mosha, and modern-day Mikado appear on the cover, but aren't in the issue. As such, this is pretty much the only time this "team" is ever shown together! 


Calendar notes: No moon. You saw me standing alone. Without a moon in my heart. Without a calendar reference to speak of whatsoever. 


------------------------------------ 

Should I have treated Herbert and Spencer as characters worth adding to the MCP? Should I have NOT treated Dallas as one? 

I utterly guessed on Fury's placement. Yeah, I know he's in good hands with someone else making that decision. 

Should Saracen II be just plain Saracen, and the current one in the MCP, a Punisher foe, be stuck as II? 


BLADE/ERIC BROOKS 
... 
PPSM2 8 
**BLADE5 1 
**BLADE5 2 
**BLADE5 3 
**BLADE5 4 
**BLADE5 5 
**BLADE5 6 
**BLADE5  
[Blade Max run] 
TOD4 1 
... 

**HROLF 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 
BLADE5 4 
BLADE5 5 
BLADE5 6 

**DALLAS, COMMANDER FRANK 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 
BLADE5 4 

**VENGINIAN, DARIUS 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 
BLADE5 4 
BLADE5 5 
BLADE5 6 

**BOY 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 

**SARACEN II 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 

**MIKADO 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 
BLADE5 4 
BLADE5 5 
BLADE5 6 

**MOSHA 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 
BLADE5 4 
BLADE5 5 
BLADE5 6 

**TINKER 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 

**RANK 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 
BLADE5 4 
BLADE5 6 

FURY, COL. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH 
... 
CA3 31 
**BLADE5 1-BTS 
**BLADE5 2 
BW2 1 
... 

**PATRIOT II 
BLADE5 1 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 
BLADE5 4 
BLADE5 5 

**REAPER III 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 
BLADE5 4 
BLADE5 5 
BLADE5 6 

**FREAK III/ 
BLADE5 2 
BLADE5 3 
BLADE5 4 

FROST, DEACON 
... 
BLADE3 
**BLADE5 3 
**BLADE5 4 
**BLADE5 6 
**BLADE5  
TOD4 2 
... 

**WHITE WORM/VIE MYRH 
BLADE5 

			*	*	*

23 Aug 2007 03:04 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Where you put the Fury appearance works pretty good. After those Black Widow issues is the other half of CA3 31, where Nick takes a break from SHIELD to tie up a few loose ends, and names Sharon Carter the new head of SHIELD. So really, these Blade issues should go before he takes his break, but can't really go before that Captain America arc. The gap in issue 31 works nicley. Good job! 

...and that's it for the Boss' Call for Analysis: the Gap. Awesome!

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

23 Aug 2007 05:10 pm 
By Enda80

http://www.marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Bibliography-AZ4 

Sadly, the AZ4 biography does not reference Deacon Frost as the mastermind in this series. I don't think that Deacon Frost's entry in the issue makes any reference either. Did Blade's Marvel Knights entry? I guess we will have to wait for the Zombies Handbook for a chance at verfication from an official or canonical source.

			*	*	*

23 Aug 2007 05:22 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Enda80 wrote:
>>>
Sadly, the AZ4 biography does not reference Deacon Frost as the mastermind in this series. I don't think that Deacon Frost's entry in the issue makes any reference either.
<<<

All that tells us is one of two things. The Handbook guys either weren't aware of it and missed it, OR, the Handbook guys chose to ignore and gloss over it. Both have hapened in the past. Am I right in that the Handbook does not say it isn't Frost? 


JLH wrote:
>>>
Deacon Frost is never actually identified, he's just a generic guy in a dark trenchcoat, more foreshadowing for things that never happen. Bart Sears later revealed his identity on a website or two. 
<<<

I say listen to Bart Sears and list it as an appearance by Frost. Sears wrote it, so he would know. If anything, it's creator's intent.Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

23 Aug 2007 07:07 pm 
By JLH

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
I say listen to Bart Sears and list it as an appearance by Frost. Sears wrote it, so he would know. If anything, it's creator's intent.
<<<

Not that it doesn't work just by going by the series appearances alone. It does. The man in black is wearing Frost's standard attire. He's bearded. He's got a history with Blade. He's a mad scientist type working on vampires. He's a vampire. Frost is mention in this series as having been killed via the Blade movie ending, with him going all blobby, but as we see in TOD4, he's back to life again anyway.

			*	*	*

Thread 43

Subject: The 50s Revival: Human Torch

20 Aug 2007 10:28 pm 
By Dhall

The 50s Revival: Human Torch 

YOUNG MEN 24 
Dec. 1953 
The Return of the Human Torch 

Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Chief Wilson 
Professor Horton (in fb to Torchs origin only) 
Hitler (in fb) 
Toro (also in fb) 
Wilson, Mary 

Synopsis: Human Torch fights a crime syndicate. They are surprised to see him, because they buried him in the desert four years ago. They spray him with solution X-R, which is what they used to trap him last time. His flame goes out, but then reignites, Torch is now immune to Solution X-R. Torch turns the criminals over to Police Chief Wilson. He questions the boss about Toro, and it turns out that he gave Toro to a communist country. Torch goes to Korea, finds Toro, who has been brainwashed, and is attacking American troops. Torch knocks him out and takes him home. The chiefs daughter Mary has been kidnapped by more criminals. They want the Torch in exchange for her. Torch complies, going to the desert, and putting himself in a steel casket. The criminals use a helicopter to pick it up and dump it in the ocean. Toro has recovered enough to go find the Torch. He frees the Torch, they track down the helicopter, and rescue Mary. Torch and Toro decide to team-up once again and fight crime. 

Flashbacks: Brief fb to Torchs origin 
Torch kills Hitler 
Torch fights a spy ring 
Torch fights crime rackets 

Torch meets Toro 

Torch and Toro fight Murder, Inc. 
Torch and Toro fight smugglers on a ship 
Torch and Toro melt through an armored car to fight hoods 

If any of these are previously seen adventures, please let me know. Since I dont know, Ive listed them as new flashback material occurring between Human Torch 35 and Young Men 24. 


In 1949, Torch and Toro fight a crime boss, who sprays them with Solution X-R. 
This puts out their flame, and the crime boss has Torch buried in the desert. 
Torch lay there for four years, until a nearby explosion freed him. After absorbing the nuclear blast, 
Torch is even stronger and more powerful then ever before. 

YOUNG MEN 25 
Feb. 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Chief Wilson 
Dr. Markov 
Uncle Julius 

Synopsis: A crime wave has overtaken the city. Torch and Toro burst in on a bank robbery, all the robbers are 20 years old. After threatening a hostage, the criminals lock up Torch and Toro in the vault, and make a getaway. The two burst out of the vault, and capture the criminals. They go to check in on Toros uncle Julius, but all the old people have disappeared. Torch and Toro go undercover as old people. They get picked up and taken to see Dr. Markov, who is making all the old people young again, in exchange for them going and committing crimes for him. It turns out that the process only works for 30 days, at which time they crumble to dust. Toros uncle Julius shoots the machine, which takes out the entire warehouse. 

YOUNG MEN 26 
March 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Chief Wilson 
Mary Wilson 
Bosco, Tony Tough 
Monk 
Vulture/ Dr. Scarlotti 
(note: this is going to bump all the other Vultures up a number.) 

Synopsis: The duo track down the lair of the Nelson gang, but its been abandoned. They go to see Chief Wilson, who introduces them to Dr. Scarlotti, an atomic scientist, who has recently escaped from Europe to America. A-Bomb plans have been stolen, but not smuggled out of the country. The two-month time period since the theft, coincides with the length of time that criminals have been missing in various cities. They fly out of the city, being shot at by a mysterious plane with a claw insignia on it. Once theyre out over the country, they throw fireballs at it, and explode the plane. They fly to Alaska to talk to Uranium miners. They capture a hood, named Tough Tony Bosco who is buying uranium for the Vulture. In the New Mexican desert, the Vulture plans to use super a-bombs to take over the world. The Vulture lures Torch and Toro into a trap, by kidnapping Mary (she gets kidnapped a lot, doesnt she?) The two break out of an easily-escapable trap, rescue Mary, and go to see Chief Wilson. Hes being attacked by robotic versions of Torch and Toro, that the Vulture has been sending on a crime spree. They easily take out the robots, then go back to stop the Vulture. The Vulture is really <gasp> Dr. Scarlotti! Torch starts a chain reaction in the atomic pile, but the Vulture manages to delay them long enough to escape. 


YOUNG MEN 26/2 
As detailed in my 50s Cap thread, The Torch, Toro, and Sub-Mariner make brief appearances in this story. 

YOUNG MEN 27 
April 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Chief Wilson 
Betty Wilson (Starting this issue and through the rest of the 50s run, she is always called Betty, and not Mary.) 
Hypnotist/Dara Cory Doone 

Synopsis: Torch and Toro bust some crooks, and free a group of kidnapped girls, who are all hypnotized. Just as the crooks spill the beans about the Hypnotist, they drop dead. Both Betty and Chief Wilson, see the Dead Face (which is how the Hypnotist commands people.) The Dead Face tells the Chief to destroy a dossier he has on Cory Doone, a hood connected to the Hypnotist. The Torch and Toro go to see Doone, whos home is protected by lions! Its full of ancient artifacts, and they all have Cory Doones face. They resist hypnosis, and follow Doone who flies off in a plane. They follow him to India, Africa, and Italy, where he gives a speech about Feb. 1st being the date for the uprising. When they get back, to the States, the duo find that Chief Wilsons daughter has been kidnapped againshes 3 for 3Since Feb 1st is the next day, they go to confront Doone that night. Doone is not surprisingly, the Hypnotist, and hes been staying young for centuries, by drinking the blood of young women. He crumbles to dust, when the Torch and Toro prevent him from using Betty for that purpose. 


HUMAN TORCH COMICS 36 
April 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Betty Wilson 
Zanowski, Billy 
Chief Wilson 
Toro 
Dr. Feliz Codrey 


Synopsis: Betty buys a toy gun for a poor child, Billy. Of course, since this is a comic, the atomic blaster really works, and theres a man trying to get it. Back at the Chiefs office, Torch receives a message from a n atomic scientist, Dr. Felix Codrey who wants to see him. The Doctor explains that plans for a new atomic gun have been stolen. Torch and Toro go to investigate the manufacture. Apparently one real gun was made, and the toys are just to cover it up. And Dr. Codrey is a soviet spy. What a shock! Codrey and his fellow spies spray Torch with paraffin to put his flames out. Toro comes to the rescue. When Codrey sprays Toro, Torch breaks free. Torch sprays the spy with his flame, and he falls into a vat of molten metal and dies. 


HUMAN TORCH COMICS 36/2 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Chief Wilson 
Professor Conway 
Betty Wilson 

Synopsis: In the New Mexico desert, scientists uncover a dinosaur egg. Soldiers tell them to evacuate, as there is an atomic test blast coming.. radiation has its way with the egg.and soon a monster is smashing its way across the desert. Torch and Toro are called in to stop it. In addition to being on rampage, the dinosaur is spreading prehistoric germs. Torch and Toro lure it to the ocean, and while oro keeps it busy, Torch goes into a submarine and shoots torpedos at it. The creature drowns. Betty feeds Toro eggs for dinner. 


HUMAN TORCH COMICS 36/4 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Carlisle, Joseph 
Carlisle, Dan 
Betty Wilson 
The Ape 

Synopsis: Human Torch and Toro rescue people trapped in a burning tenement. The tenements are owned by a millionaire, Joseph Carlisle. The two go to see him, but find Betty there. Shes trying to persuade him to tear down the tenements, and build nicer places. Aside from money, the only thing that Mr. Carlisle loves, is his son Dan. Criminals steal the insurance money from the fire, but The Ape comes in, and takes over their gang. The Ape plans to kidnap Carlisles son. When he does, Torch and Toro are sent to look for the boy. Torch finds the gang, but Ape hits him from behind, and throws him down a well. Toro rescues him from this. They are able to rescue Dan, and Mr. Carlisle decides to build new homes instead of the deathtraps hes been renting out. 


SUB-MARINER COMICS 33/3 
April 1954 

I do not have this issue, or know of any reprinted source. Can anyone help out? 

MENS ADVENTURES 27 
May 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Betty Wilson 
Toro 
Macklan, Jake 
Chief Wilson 
Macklan, Bobby 
Jet/ Gary Akers 

Torch, Toro and Betty go to the hospital room, of one Jake Macklan, a former agent of Chief Wilsons who son is keeping bad company. Torch and Toro meet with Wilson, then decide to go and find Macklans son, Bobby. When they find him, hes in the comp[any of two hoods. They follow them into the subway tunnels, where the hoods are taking Bobby to a meeting. The criminals are being led by a guy in some kind of jet suit. The fight, but he opens a gas main, and the Torch and Toro have to flame off so they dont cause an explosion. They meet Bobby who has stayed behind. He was picked up by the crooks, and brought to the meeting, where they were going to tell the Jet, that Bobby wasnt in with them. Bobby tells them that Jets plan is to cause chaos in the city, by making a tv annoucment that they city is about to be hit by an a-bomb, then during the panic, Jet will sabotage the citys electricity, and other vital services. Then in the panic, Jets men will loot the city. Jet makes the annoucemnt, but Torch has Toro go on the air, to convince people it was a joke. Meanwhile he fights the Jet. Torch melts the Jets tubes, which causes him to plummet to his death. Later Bobby announces that he is going to become a cop. 


CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
May 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Chief Wilson 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Betty Wilson 
Vulture 
Metallo 

Synopsis: In Florida, Chief Wilson and Betty are on vacation, but she is captured by the Vulture. The Torch and Toro spring into action to find Betty. The two find the Vulture, battle his robot, and are thrown into the swamp. They fight crocodiles, escape, see the robots, go back into the water, and swim away. The robots follow them, and short circuit. Then they chase the Vulture, and fight his best robot, Metallo. They rescue Betty, but the Vulture escapes into the swamp. 

YOUNG MEN 28 
June 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Chief Wilson 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Dukas, Frank 
Betty Wilson 
Rocca 
Vulture 
Captain Thorn 


Synopsis: 
The Torch and Toro fight saboteurs who are trying to destroy the America space ship. They are successful, but the Torch captures one, and sees that he has a Vulture tattoo. They take a plane to a secret base, where there is another moon ship almost completed. Betty stows away on the plane. They meet the engineer, Rocca, who they see has a Vulture tattoo. The Vulture plans to build his own moon ship, and to beat the Americans to the moon. The Torch and Toro destroy the Vultures ship, but the Vulture escapes in a plane, They pursue, but the Vulture has them doused with a liquid to put out their flame. They fall, but when the liquid dries, are able to flame on, and save their lives. They know that the Vulture will attack the governments moon ship, so they go back there. For some reason the moon ship took off, got halfway to the moon, and turned around and came back. Vulture kidnaps Betty, and puts her in the ship, and takes off. The Torch and Toro pursue. They sneak in through the side jets, and fight the Vulture and his men. They capture the Vulture. An alien ship containing the Guardians of Space pull up, and tell the Torch that they wiped the first crews mind, because man is not ready for the stars. 


HUMAN TORCH COMICS 37 
June 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Professor Collins 

Synopsis: Human Torch and Toro investigate the vampire killings. A meteor lands nearby the area where the killings happened. Outside their hotel room window, they see a big bat, and go and chase it. In a cave, they fight bats, then are attacked by the owner of the hotel, who is a vampire. Some of the bats grab him, and fly off, and take him to a space ship. It turns out that a race of bat people came to earth, and left their criminals here, who became vampires. They take them away. 


HUMAN TORCH COMICS 37/2 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Chief Wilson 
Casey 
Skarda, Dan 
Prentiss, Dean 

Synopsis: One of the leading nuclear physicists in Europe has gone missing. Instead of looking for him, the Torch and Toro track down a missing janitor, to the estate of Dean Prentiss, who is running for governor. Hes also a red and is torturing the janitor. Torch and Toro free the janitor, who turns out to be the physicist. 

HUMAN TORCH COMICS 37/4 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Foray, Dr. Peter 
Margot 
Maker/Dr. Manning 

Synopsis: Torch receives a late night call from Dr. Peter Foray. They are just getting ready to go down to the hospital, when Margot, Petes fiance comes to see Torch and Toro. Petes changed lately, and she is worried. At the hospital, Pete explains that he was operating on an accident victim, who turned out to be a robot. They repair the robot, so that they can follow it, and see where it comes from. They follow it to the zoo, while Pete explains that he has leprosy. The y spy on the creator of the robots, The Maker, who is none other than Dr. Manning, Petes boss at the hospital. However, Dr. Manning turns out to be an alien, trapped on Earth. The Maker dies. Pete turns out to be one of the Makers robots, and kills himself. 



SUB-MARINER COMICS 34/3 
June 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Major Cort 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Professor Elrick 
Ascher 

Synopsis: Torch and Toro are called into a secret government project. The location of the project has become known, and it needs to be moved. Major Cort wants Torch and Toro to provide security until that is done. Its a germ warfare lab, and they are testing Virus X. Two communist intruders are captured, one is killed, then the other is shot by someone outside a window, who escapes. There is a fire at the base, and Torch saves Prof. Elrick, the creator of Virus X, who is working on an antidote. One of the other men, Ascher turns out to be trying to steal the virus. Ascher dies of fear, when Torch throws a vial of Virus X at him. (The virus has been rendered harmless.) 


MENS ADVENTURES 28 
July 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
George 
Force, Pete 
Ksa 

Synopsis: There is a plague from space, and an alien space ship buzzing around the locale. Torch and Toro meet with Ksa, the alien leader, and he is here to bring a cure for the plague. Torch and Toro go to inform the people, but a mob captures them and locks them up. By the time they break free, the mob has killed the alien. With his dying breath, Ksa gives the mob the cure to the plague. 


CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/3 
July 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 

Synopsis: In response to news reports about a monster, Toro and the Torch come to investigate. They save a boy from the creature, then Toro plummets to his death. The creature brings him back to life. They help it repair its space ship, and save it from a mob. 


HUMAN TORCH COMICS 38 
August 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Professor Marko 
Gorodok 
Stella Marko 

Synopsis: When the worlds air starts to disappear, Torch and Toro fall out of the sky, and into the bay. They fight two men wearing oxygen masks, who rant about how slow it is going. The two quickly spill the beans, and relate that it is Professor Marko doing this, and where to find him. Torch and Toro take the mens oxygen tanks, and perforate them, so that they can have air all over their bodies, to use to fly. Marko has a giant dome on a mountain, with a giant vacuum sucking in all the earths air. They get sucked intot he vacuum, but regain their flame when taken out of it. The Professor and his henchman, Gorodok capture the duo, and put them in air tight tubes. Marko rants about how hes doing it all for his daughter, but Stella disagrees with him, and uses her crutches to smash the tubes, freeing the Torch and Toro. The Professor has a change of heart, but Gorodok shoots him, after falling from the roof. Torch reverses the air sucking process, and Stella is somehow cured, and no longer needs her wheelchair. 


HUMAN TORCH COMICS 38/2 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Wong 
Kung 

Synopsis: In Korea, soldiers have captured a general, and his daughter. They lure the Torch into a trap. Toro goes to rescue him. When they go to rescue the general, he tricks them and slams the door locking them in a trap room. They break free, and rescue the daughter, whom the general throws off a cliff. She explains that the man in the generals uniform, isnt the real general, but Kung, a red spy. Torch and Toro fight the Korean army, then rescue the general, and capture Kung. 

HUMAN TORCH COMICS 38/4 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Jory, Capt. Fred 
Col. Frost 
Lotty Frost 

Synopsis: The Torch and Toro go to the aid of a falling jet. The pilot is despondant because a colonel wont let him marry his daughter, since he is a coward. When Torch goes with him to see the Col., he finds that the Colonel has been tied up by commies. The Torch backs Capt. Jory up, by moving so fast that he is invisible. One agent is trying to steal an experimental jet, and the Colonels daughter. Jory and the Torch go to rescue her. Aided by the Torch, Jorys plane catches up to the jet. They stop the plane, and bring it back to base. At the base Jory fights a commie agent all by himself. The Torch gets thanked by Lotty with a kiss, then flies off. 


SUB-MARINER COMICS 35/3 
August 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 
Rak 

Synopsis: Diamond thieves frame Torch and Toro. They break out of police custody to go after the real thieves, who plummet to their deaths from the top of the Statue of Liberty. 


CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/3 
Sept. 1954 
Characters Appearing: 
Human Torch 
Toro 

Synopsis: After the end of the Korean War, Torch and Toro go up to North Korea to make sure that the North Koreans have turned over all of the American P.O.Ws. They fight North Korean soldiers, then find a P.O.W. camp with 100 Americans who were never reported to U.N. forces. They free the men, then fight more North Koreans. 



HUMAN TORCH 
Human Torch 
M/U 1-FB 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 
M/U 3 
WX2 14-FB 
WI? 4 
SAGAHT 3 
YOUNG MEN 24 <- S/B YOUNG MEN 24-FB 
WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 19 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 21 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
WI? 4 <-REMOVE, WI? 4 ENDS BEFORE ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
S-H2 22 
CV 1-FB 
SUN GIRL 1 
SUN GIRL 2 
SUN GIRL 3 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 92 
HUMAN TORCH 35 
** YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch fights a spy ring, and a crime racket) 
** YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch and Toro fight Murder Inc. and smugglers) 
YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch buried by gangsters) 
A 134-FB <- Remove, this is a fb to Young Men 24-fb 
YOUNG MEN 24 
YOUNG MEN 25 
YOUNG MEN 26 
**YOUNG MEN 26/2 
YOUNG MEN 27 
YOUNG MEN 28 <-Remove 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 27 <-Remove 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 28 <-Remove 
HUMAN TORCH 36 
**HUMAN TORCH 36/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 36/4 
**[SUB-MARINER COMICS 33/3] 
** MEN'S ADVENTURES 27 
HUMAN TORCH 37 <-Remove 
HUMAN TORCH 38 <-Remove 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76 <-S/B CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
** YOUNG MEN 28 
**HUMAN TORCH 37 
**HUMAN TORCH 37/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 37/4 
** SUB-MARINER COMICS 34/3 
** MEN'S ADVENTURES 28 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77 <-S/B CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/3 
**HUMAN TORCH 38 
**HUMAN TORCH 38/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 38/4 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 35/3 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78 <-S/B CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/3 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 33 <-REMOVE 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 34<-REMOVE 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 35<-REMOVE 
A 134-FB 
SAGAHT 4 
A 131 
A 132 
GSA 3 
A 134-FB 
{FF@ 4} 

TORO 
INV 38 
INV 39 
INV2 1-FB 
MARVELS 1 
TCORPS 1 
TCORPS 2 
[CA5 5-FB] 
CA '01-FB 
M/U 1-FB 
**WI? 4 
**YOUNG MEN 24-FB-BTS (WI? 4 reveals that he was present when Torch killed Hitler) 
**WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
** S-H2 22 
** YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch and Toro fight Murder Inc. and smugglers) 
**YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch buried by gangsters, Toro sold to Communist nation) 
**YOUNG MEN 24 
**YOUNG MEN 25 
**YOUNG MEN 26 
**YOUNG MEN 26/2 
**YOUNG MEN 27 
**HUMAN TORCH 36 
**HUMAN TORCH 36/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 36/4 
**[SUB-MARINER COMICS 33/3] 
**MENS ADVENTURES 27 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
**YOUNG MEN 28 
**HUMAN TORCH 37 
**HUMAN TORCH 37/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 37/4 
** SUB-MARINER COMICS 34/3 
**MENS ADVENTURES 28 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/3 
**HUMAN TORCH 38 
**HUMAN TORCH 38/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 38/4 
** SUB-MARINER COMICS 35/3 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/3 

CV 1-FB 
SAGAHT 4 
A 134-FB 
{SUB-M 14 (19:3 - 19:5)-FB} 
SUB-M 14 (9:5 - 11:1)-FB 
SUB-M 14 

Chief Wilson 
YOUNG MEN 24 
YOUNG MEN 25 
YOUNG MEN 26 
YOUNG MEN 27 
HUMAN TORCH 36 
HUMAN TORCH 36/2 
MENS ADVENTURES 27 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
YOUNG MEN 28 
HUMAN TORCH 37/2 

Does he make an earlier appearances, before the 50s era? If so, does he have a first name? 

Betty Mary Wilson 
YOUNG MEN 24 
YOUNG MEN 26 
YOUNG MEN 27 
HUMAN TORCH 36 
HUMAN TORCH 36/2 
HUMAN TORCH 36/4 
MENS ADVENTURES 27 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
YOUNG MEN 28 

Note: Her name starts out as Mary, but suddenly becomes Betty in Young Men 27, and it stays that way for all of her remaining appearances. 

VULTURE/DR. SCARLOTTI 
YOUNG MEN 26 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
YOUNG MEN 28 

He will bump all the other Vultures up one #. 

HYPNOTIST/DARA/CORY DOONE 
YOUNG MEN 27 

APE 
HUMAN TORCH 36/4 

KSA 
MENS ADVENTURES 28 

HITLER, ADOLF 
FURY 1-FB 
YOUNG MEN 24 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 24-FB 
WI? 4 
SVTU 17-FB

			*	*	*

21 Aug 2007 01:02 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

For the Hitler FlashBack in Young Men 24, I have: 

HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
... 
WX2 14-FB (1944) 
WS: WK 1-FB-BTS (12/24/44) 
SAGAHT 2 (18-19:2) 
N@ 1/2-FB 
SAGAHT 2 (19:3-23) 
WI? 4 (1-5:4) 
SAGAHT 3 (1-4:4) 
WI? 4 (5:5-6:1) 
SAGAHT 3 (5:1) 
WI? 4 (6:2-6:6) 
YOUNG MEN 24-FB 
SVTU 17-FB 
FF3 53 (1)-FB 
WI? 4 (7:2-7:3) 
FF3 53 (2)-FB 
SAGAHT 3 (6:6-6:7) 
SAGASM 5 (1-19) 
WI? 4 (9-16) 
CA@ 6-FB (06/45) 
WI? 4 (17) 
SAGASM 5 (20-22) 
ALL WINNERS 19 
ALL WINNERS 19/4 
ALL WINNERS 19/7 
WI? 4 (18:5-34) 
ALL WINNERS 21 
ALL WINNERS 21/6 
ALL WINNERS 21/7 
S-H2 22 
 

Which is basically the same thing you've suggested, but with Saga of the Human Torch thrown in. 

And yes, Chief Wilson has appeared before. His full name is John C. Wilson and he's appeared in at least MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS, HUMAN TORCH COMICS, & Saga of the Human Torch. And now I'm wishing I had been tracking his apearances... 

My vacations is over, so give me a bit to try and pull something together for him. 

PS: 
Dave, I'm really digging these '50's Revivals. Thanks a bunch.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

21 Aug 2007 04:46 am 
By Enda80

"Synopsis: In the New Mexico desert, scientists uncover a dinosaur egg. Soldiers tell them to evacuate, as there is an atomic test blast coming.. radiation has its way with the egg.and soon a monster is smashing its way across the desert. Torch and Toro are called in to stop it. In addition to being on rampage, the dinosaur is spreading prehistoric germs. Torch and Toro lure it to the ocean, and while oro keeps it busy, Torch goes into a submarine and shoots torpedos at it. The creature drowns. Betty feeds Toro eggs for dinner. " 

in the Saga of the Human Torch, 
the Human Torch remembered a battle he had with a giant lizard, and 
says "The Japanese must have been thinking of him when they created 
Godzilla". However, Godzilla is real on Earth-616. Perhaps the Torch was returned to suspended animation before the Earth-616 Godzilla emerged i 1956.

			*	*	*

21 Aug 2007 09:17 am 
By Dhall

>>>
Dave, I'm really digging these '50's Revivals. Thanks a bunch.
<<<

I thought you might.  

I'm trying to put all the 50's comics together that I have access to before I read the Human Torch or Sub-Mariner saga minis, Roy Thomas sometimes does mysterious things, so I want to look at the original comics first whenever possible.

			*	*	*

23 Aug 2007 08:24 pm 
By Dhall

I read through SAGAHT 4 last night, and I was pleased to see that I had these issues listed in the same order as SAGAHT does, with the exception, that it places the Torch story in Men's Adventures 27, in between stories 2 and 4 of Human Torch 36...go figure... :) Anyway I'll post an update to my listings, incorporating SAGAHT 4 soon.... 

Fury, Do you know when in MMC Wilson first appears? 
And does his daughter make appearances before the 1950's, and if so is she named Mary or Betty? 

Dave H.

			*	*	*

23 Aug 2007 09:50 pm 
By Dhall

Incorporating SAGHAT 4, (but not the end of SAGAHT 3 which includes the Young Men 24 fb with the gangsters burying Torch) 

HUMAN TORCH 
M/U 1-FB 
M/U 1 
M/U 2 
M/U 3 
WX2 14-FB 
WI? 4 
SAGAHT 3 
YOUNG MEN 24 <- S/B YOUNG MEN 24-FB 
WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 19 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
WI? 4 
ALL WINNERS 21 <- S/B ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
WI? 4 <-REMOVE, WI? 4 ENDS BEFORE ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
S-H2 22 
CV 1-FB 
SUN GIRL 1 
SUN GIRL 2 
SUN GIRL 3 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 92 
HUMAN TORCH 35 
** YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch fights a spy ring, and a crime racket) 
** YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch and Toro fight Murder Inc. and smugglers) 
YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch buried by gangsters) 
** YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch is revived by atomic blast) 
A 134-FB <- Remove, this is a fb to Young Men 24-fb 
**SGAHT 4-FB (4-5:2) (Torch flies away from atomic blast, to find gangsters) 
YOUNG MEN 24 (1-4:1,6:6-7:1) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (8:8-9:5) (Wilson explains the political situation regarding Korea to Torch) 
** YOUNG MEN 24 (7:2-7:8) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (11:3)(one panel, Toro unconscious loses his flame, and falls) 
** YOUNG MEN 24(7:9-8:1) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (11:6-12:1) (3 panels, Torch takes Toro to the hospital for treatment, paces while waiting to hear from doctor) 
** YOUNG MEN 24(8:2) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (12:3)(one panel, the doctor tells Torch that it might take a strong shock to return Toro to normal) 
** YOUNG MEN 24(8:2-8:8) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (13:1-13:4) (Steel Box drops to bottom of ocean) 
** YOUNG MEN 24 (9:1-9:2) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (13:5-13:7) (Torch and Toro swim to surface) 
** YOUNG MEN 24 (9:3-9:8) 
YOUNG MEN 25 
YOUNG MEN 26 
**YOUNG MEN 26/2 
YOUNG MEN 27 
YOUNG MEN 28 <-Remove 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 27 <-Remove 
MEN'S ADVENTURE 28 <-Remove 
HUMAN TORCH 36 
**HUMAN TORCH 36/2 
** MEN'S ADVENTURES 27 
**HUMAN TORCH 36/4 
**[SUB-MARINER COMICS 33/3] 
HUMAN TORCH 37 <-Remove 
HUMAN TORCH 38 <-Remove 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76 <-S/B CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
** YOUNG MEN 28 
**HUMAN TORCH 37 
**HUMAN TORCH 37/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 37/4 
** SUB-MARINER COMICS 34/3 
** MEN'S ADVENTURES 28 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77 <-S/B CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/3 
**HUMAN TORCH 38 
**HUMAN TORCH 38/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 38/4 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 35/3 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (Torch and Toro at the White House) 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78 <-S/B CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/3 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (Torch burns white hot, and buries himself in the desert sands) 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 33 <-REMOVE 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 34<-REMOVE 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 35<-REMOVE 
A 134-FB 
SAGAHT 4 
A 131 
A 132 
GSA 3 
A 134-FB 
{FF@ 4} 

TORO 
INV 38 
INV 39 
INV2 1-FB 
MARVELS 1 
TCORPS 1 
TCORPS 2 
[CA5 5-FB] 
CA '01-FB 
M/U 1-FB 
**WI? 4 
**YOUNG MEN 24-FB-BTS (WI? 4 reveals that he was present when Torch killed Hitler) 
**WI? 4 
**CA@ 6 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 19 
**WI? 4 
**ALL WINNERS COMICS 21 
** S-H2 22 
** YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch and Toro fight Murder Inc. and smugglers) 
**YOUNG MEN 24-FB (Torch buried by gangsters, Toro sold to Communist nation) 
**YOUNG MEN 24 (7:5-7:8) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (11:3) (one panel, Toro unconscious loses his flame, and falls) 
** YOUNG MEN 24 (7:9-8:1) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (11:6-11:7)(2 panels, Torch takes Toro to the hospital for treatment) 
** YOUNG MEN 24 (8:10-9:2) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (13:5-13:7) (Toro in 3 new panels, Opens steel box, swims to surface with Torch) 
** YOUNG MEN 24 (9:3-9:8) 
**YOUNG MEN 25 
**YOUNG MEN 26 
**YOUNG MEN 26/2 
**YOUNG MEN 27 
**HUMAN TORCH 36 
**HUMAN TORCH 36/2 
**MENS ADVENTURES 27 
**HUMAN TORCH 36/4 
**[SUB-MARINER COMICS 33/3] 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
**YOUNG MEN 28 
**HUMAN TORCH 37 
**HUMAN TORCH 37/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 37/4 
** SUB-MARINER COMICS 34/3 
**MENS ADVENTURES 28 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 77/3 
**HUMAN TORCH 38 
**HUMAN TORCH 38/2 
**HUMAN TORCH 38/4 
** SUB-MARINER COMICS 35/3 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (Torch and Toro at the White House) 
**CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 78/3 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (Torch burns white hot, and buries himself in the desert sands) 
CV 1-FB 
SAGAHT 4 
A 134-FB 
{SUB-M 14 (19:3 - 19:5)-FB} 
SUB-M 14 (9:5 - 11:1)-FB 
SUB-M 14 

WILSON, JOHN C. CHIEF 
YOUNG MEN 24 
SAGAHT 4-FB (8:8-9:5)(Wilson explains the political situation regarding Korea to Torch) 
YOUNG MEN 24 
SAGAHT 4-FB (12:1) (one panel, with Torch and hospital, waiting to hear about Toros condition) 
YOUNG MEN 24 
YOUNG MEN 25 
YOUNG MEN 26 
YOUNG MEN 27 
HUMAN TORCH 36 
HUMAN TORCH 36/2 
MENS ADVENTURES 27 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
YOUNG MEN 28 
HUMAN TORCH 37/2 

Does he make an earlier appearances, before the 50s era? If so, does he have a first name? 

Betty Mary Wilson 
YOUNG MEN 24 
YOUNG MEN 26 
YOUNG MEN 27 
HUMAN TORCH 36 
HUMAN TORCH 36/2 
MENS ADVENTURES 27 
HUMAN TORCH 36/4 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
YOUNG MEN 28 

Note: Her name starts out as Mary, but suddenly becomes Betty in Young Men 27, and it stays that way for all of her remaining appearances. 

VULTURE/DR. SCARLOTTI 
YOUNG MEN 26 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
YOUNG MEN 28 

He will bump all the other Vultures up one #. 

HYPNOTIST/DARA/CORY DOONE 
YOUNG MEN 27 

APE 
HUMAN TORCH 36/4 

KSA 
MENS ADVENTURES 28 

BUTCHER 
YOUNG MEN 27 
SAGAHT 4-FB (13:1-13:2)(in helicopter) 
YOUNG MEN 27 
SAGAHT 4-FB (14:2) (getting in helicopter) 
YOUNG MEN 27 

HITLER, ADOLF 
FURY 1-FB 
YOUNG MEN 24 <-S/B YOUNG MEN 24-FB 
WI? 4 
SVTU 17-FB 


NIXON, RICHARD MILHOUS 
**SAGAHT 4-FB-FB (Elected as Vice President) 
H2 119 
A 82 
FF 103 
FF 104 
H2 139 
A 92-BTS 
AT 1/2 


EISENHOWER, GEN. DWIGHT D. 
SGTF@ 2 
**SAGAHT 4-FB-FB (Elected President) 
**SAGAHT 4-FB (Torch and Toro at the White House) 

*MacArthur, GEN. DOUGLAS 
SAGAHT 4-FB-FB (pushed too far North, and Chinese came in)

			*	*	*

23 Aug 2007 11:00 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

WILSON, JOHN C. CHIEF 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7 (1-4:6) 
SAGAHT 2 (6:1-6:4) 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7 (4:7-5) 
SAGAHT 2 (6:8-7:3) 
SAGASM 3 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7 (12) 
SAGASM 4 (1-15) 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 9 
SAGASM 4 (16-22) 
HUMAN TORCH 4 
HUMAN TORCH 5A 
... 
YOUNG MEN 24 
... 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Chief Wilson appeared in Marvel Mystery Comics 11-17, but I don't have access to those, so I couldn't tell you. As soon as they're collected, though...  

As for his daughter, no appearances that I can see. Betty Dean worked under Wilson for a time, but she wasn't related to him.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 44

Subject: Wolverine v3 56

23 Aug 2007 08:29 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Wolverine #56 
W: Jason Aaron 
D: Howard Chaykin! 
Published: October, 2007 

Appearances: 
Wolverine(Logan), Wildchild, Romulus-VO or OP 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg13pn3 
Wendell reports to work and shoots a man in a pit at regular intervals with an anchored high-powered machine gun for the duration of his shift. For some reason, though, the man in the pit wont die and today he starts talking to Wendell. 
Pg13pn4(of 4)-pg16: next day 
Wendell shows up for work, shoots the man in the pit as they chat about Wendells life. 
Pg14pn1-FB: a year or so ago? 
Wendell, when he used to be a police officer, has just beat the crap out of someone. 
Pg14pn2(of 6)-pg15pn2(of 9): same day as pg16 
The man in the pit and Wendell chat. 
Pg15pn3-pg15pn5: one day 
The man in the pit spits out a bullet and his picture is taken. 
Pg15pn6-pg15pn7: one day 
Wendell reports for his shift. 
Pg15pn8-pg15pn9: one day 
Wendell shoots the man in the pit. 
Pg16pn1-pg16pn2(of 5): two weeks after pg1 
Wendell and the man in the pit chat about Wendells dad. 
Pg16pn3-pg17pn1-FB: Wendells about 12 
Wendells dad beats him with a belt. 
Pg17pn2-FB: Wendells about 14 
Wendells dad beats him with a plunger. 
Pg17pn3-FB: Wendells about 16 
Wendells is beaten by his dad, Wendell is wearing a cast. 
Pg17pn4(of 4)-pg18pn1-FB: Wendells about 18 
Wendells dad beats him with a bottle. 
Pg18pn2(of 5)-pg19pn1: same day as pg16pn2 
The man in the pit tells Wendell that his crappy life is all Wendells fault. 
Pg19pn2-pg19pn3: one day 
Wendell goes to work, but the man in the pit isnt talking anymore. Wendell is confused. 
Pg19pn4(of 4)-pg23: one day 
Wendell has started drinking again, and is beaten up by his co-workers for jeopardizing their jobs with his drinking. Later, he decides what he has to do. That night he goes to a retirement home and demands that his dad kill him. The problem is, his dad has Alzhimers and doesnt know who Wendell is. 
Pg24-pg33: the next day 
Wendell reports to work and kills the guards. He lets the man in the pit, Wolverine!, out, and begs him to kill him. He doesnt, he throws Wendell in the pit instead. Elsewhere, Wild Child tells Romulus that Wolverine has escaped. Romulus tells Wild Child to put the last batch of photographs on the wall along with the others. 

References: 
Romulus is talking in this issue, but not seen. The speech bubble comes from off-panel. Im not sure if this should be a Voice Over appearance, or an Off-Panel appearance for Romulus. You Decide! 

Wendell appears to be in his forties, so the FlashBacks shown here with the exception of pg14pn1 are from 30+ to 20+ years ago. 

As of the start of the issue, Wolverine has been in the pit for six weeks. He doesnt know how he got there, or whos been keeping him captive.(its Romulus) From pg1 to pg16 two weeks pass. From pg19pn1 to pg33, an unspecified amount of time passes. Id say about a week, give or take. So overall, no appearances for Wolverine for about nine weeks elsewhere. Good luck! 

Green grass and shrubs where ever it is that Wendell lives. 

The issue ends with Wolverine vowing to find whoever put him in the pit, so this is quite possibly a prologue for the next arc, also drawn by Chaykin, but written by Guggenheim.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

23 Aug 2007 09:05 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
As of the start of the issue, Wolverine has been in the pit for six weeks. He doesnt know how he got there, or whos been keeping him captive.(its Romulus) From pg1 to pg16 two weeks pass. From pg19pn1 to pg33, an unspecified amount of time passes. Id say about a week, give or take. So overall, no appearances for Wolverine for about nine weeks elsewhere. Good luck!
<<<

LOL. 


Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
The issue ends with Wolverine vowing to find whoever put him in the pit, so this is quite possibly a prologue for the next arc, also drawn by Chaykin, but written by Guggenheim.
<<<

Isn't next arc the "WOLVERINE DIEZ!!" arc, where he's trying to fight his way back to his body or something like that?

			*	*	*

25 Aug 2007 02:39 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Somebody wrote:
>>>
Isn't next arc the "WOLVERINE DIEZ!!" arc, where he's trying to fight his way back to his body or something like that?
<<<

With covers by Suydam! And art by Chaykin! Yeah, that's the one. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this issue has nothing to do with the next arc, but I'm hoping it's a prologue. Otherwise, we'll have yet another instance of Wolverine vowing to take care of something RIGHT NOW, and then never following up on it.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 45

Subject: Legion of Monsters: Satana/Morbius

26 Aug 2007 03:45 am 
By JLH

The final two of the generic fill-ins disguised as specials! 

------------------------------------ 
LEGION OF MONSTERS: SATANA #1 [August 2007] 
Satana, the Devil's Daughter/Queen of Hell in "Satana and the Electric Pentacle" 
Writer: Robin Furth 
Art: Kalman Andrasofszky 

Cast: 
SATANA
SCORPION QUEEN 

Other characters: 
Silence, Jennifer 
Silence, Jason (dies) 


Summary: One night, Satana kisses a guy in an alley, turns his soul into a glowing butterfly, and eats it, leaving him dead. She then returns to her current lair, a deconsecrated church, only to enter and end up standing on glowing pentacle, created by angels, trapping her within it! The person responsible is a young woman named Jennifer Silence. Her twin brother, Jason, had his soul sent down to Hell last month as Satana's offering to her father. Well, Jen's done enough research, and knows that Satana is the Queen of Hell, according to the Akashik Record, and makes her sign a contract swearing she'll bring Jason Silence back to Earth, alive and unharmed, and to never do harm on any member of their family or friends, blah, blah. Satana promises to sign it, as soon as she depowers the electricity-powered pentacle. She does, and Satana kicks her down and zaps her in revenge. She thinks Jen's working for someone else, but as she learns, she simply got the pentacle from a spell book. Giving it over to the demoness, the book is used to reclaim the pentacle. After chaining Jen up to one of her in-house near-corpses, Satana does some tinkering with the pentacle control device, exploring hands-on the Heaven technology for the benefit of finding out who specifically made it. Anyway, Satana goes down to Hell, finds Jason's soul, fights the giant Scorpion Queen (mother of all Hell's vermin), who has apparently stolen the spirit. Stupid Scorpy unleashes her brood on the demoness, which proves to be her weakness, as Satana scorches the baby scorpions, hurting the mother. Satana slaughters the Scorpion Queen, and returns to Earth with Jason Silence. He's reunited with his sister, and once that happens, the contract is fulfilled. Jason vanishes again, returning to Hell. She never promised he'd STAY when she returned him! Later, Satana has tracked down the angels who made the technology that trapped her, and has killed most of them. At least now she has a fancy laptop, something she couldn't get from Hell. Oh, and Jen is kept chained alongside some of the captive men in Satana's place. 


Continuity notes: The wanted poster features the "saunter stand pose" shot by Esteban Maroto from Satana's second appearance, while the spell book contains the original "naked" version of the same shot from the preview designs, also by Esteban. 


Calendar notes: Streets of Alphabet City are wet from prior rain. It's night. No moon visible in the sky. I should mention, Jason Silence was killed as "last month's tithe to Hell". 

Pages 1-13: The main story. 
Page 14: The "after the Angels are defeated and their bodies fashioned in a position for Satana to use as a chair" ending. Maybe the next day. 


-------------- 
Story 2: 
"mustDIE/eatSOUL: A Living Mummy Tale" 
Story and Art: Jonathan Hickman 

Cast: 
LIVING MUMMY/N'KANTU
NEPHRUS
ANUBIS
KHET 

Other characters: 
Three skeleton warriors (destroyed) 


Summary: Okay, so, the Living Mummy has returned to Egypt, to the temple where he was buried alive for so long. He's brought the Orb of Ra, and uses it to resurrect the spirit of his old foe, Nephrus. What does our pal, N'Kantu, want? He wants to be freed from his curse, or he wants to die. Nephrus made him this way, he can undo it. Well, Nephrus is all like, "At least you're alive!" and N'Kantu is all, "I can't dream or eat yet I hunger and no babes want me or nothing" (paraphrasing, of course). Unfortunately, N'Kantu reviving Nephrus causes Anubis to take notice of the absence of his employee from the afterlifeish place. So Anubis appears, has his familiar, a little jackal dog named Khet do all the real talking, and demands Nephrus and the Orb be surrendered to the God. When N'Kantu refuses, Khet unleashes some skeleton soldiers on him. The Living Mummy kicks their boney butts. As it turns out, Nephrus made no restorative to the curse he used on N'Kantu, because he never got around to it for himself before he was killed! So the Living Mummy must live forever as he is. Luckily, though, Khet informs him that Anubis has taken an interest in him, and will give him the only gift he has to give: death. But first, the Jackal must be fed. Anubis hungers for souls, so N'Kantu must give him some. With Nephrus and Khet at his side, he'll travel the world, murdering people to send their souls to the Egyptian afterlife. Living Mummy decides to only kill evil men, which Khet could care less about. And thus, their voyage begins! Let's see it ever get referenced again... 


Flashback: Montage shots of things, I assume or even presume, are already covered. N'Kantu during the Test of the Lion. N'Kantu enslaved. Various Egyptian Gods. N'Kantu killing Aramemnisu. Then N'Kantu as a mummy. 


Calendar notes: None, at all. It's been "3000 years" since N'Kantu ruled, so it seems to be a modern day tale. 

Pages 15: Generic exterior shot of Egypt, as N'Katu waxes nostalgic on his old kingdom. 
Pages 16-17: FB montage of how N'Kantu became the Living Mummy. 
Pages 18-28: The main story. 


------------------------------------ 
LEGION OF MONSTERS: MORBIUS #1 [September 2007] 
"Half Life: A Morbius Tale" 
Writer: Brendan Cahill 
Art: Michael Gaydos 

Cast: 
MORBIUS/DR. MICHAEL MORBIUS 

Other characters: 
Franz (dies) 
Matthew (dies) 
Gillie 
Roxy (becomes vampire. Dies) 


Summary: Morbius is lying around the floor of an old church, trying to ignore an imaginary bat that represents his need for blood. A couple of heroin junkies are also there, with one of them, a young runaway named Gillie, offering Morbius a can of chilli to help him feel better. There's also the beautiful Roxy, who only does the drugs because of her boyfriend, Matthew. Anyway, Roxy overdoes, and Matthew urges Morbius, whom they know to be a vampire, to bite her and save her life. Morb fights against the junkie's instance, and his own inner demons, but finally gives in and feasts on the girl. Roxy awakens, but thanks to being brain dead for too long, she's become a mindless vampire, almost zombie like. She kills Matthew and Franz, but when she goes to kill Gillie, Morbius finally breaks out of his depressive funk and snaps to, saving the girl who showed him compassion earlier. He breaks Roxy's neck, and saves Gillie, but she refuses to be near him again. So Morb departs, and has a heart to heart with his inner imaginary bat some more, in how he shouldn't care about Roxy, since she was worthless, while Morbius merely hopes to find more Gillies in the world. Or something. 


Continuity notes: The cover uses the logo from the 90s Morbius: The Living Vampire series, but the indica merely lists the title as just "Legion of Monsters: Morbius". 

It seems unlikely that this would be after Morb's recent BLADE appearance, where he's wearing his old costume and is entirely lucid, to the point of registering. I'd place it before that, just for the sake of character-minding. 


Goofs: Morbius claims the half-life of the formula he used to originally "cure" himself should have caused it to weaken by now. Seems the writer is oblivious to the fact he's been genetically altered and added new formulas to himself over the years, so much that the original one is the LEAST of his worries. 

Morbius doesn't turn people into vampires by biting them. He HAS, but it's been a crapshoot. As discussed in a letter page way back in his run in Fear, I believe, the time he turned someone into a vampire was due to unique genetic properties in their blood. Though Morb's alerting "caused" Blade to change, here we have Morb acting like turning people when he bites them is a common thing, when it's entirely UNcommon for him. And since when can you kill a vamp just by breaking their neck? And why didn't Matthew and Franz come back after being bitten by Roxy? 


Calendar notes: It's a smoggy night in San Francisco. It also seems to be cold, given the outfits, but whatever. Full moon. 

Pages 1-14: The story. 


-------------- 
Story 2: 
"Biting Back: A Tale of Dracula & Lilth" 
Writer: C.B. Cebulski 
Penciler: David Finch 
Inkers: Danny Miki & Crimelab Studios 

Cast: 
DRACULA/VLAD TEPES
LILITH/ANGEL O'HARA/"LILY DRAKE" 


Other characters: 
Noelle (dies) 
Tamsin (dies) 
Five Vampire Clan heads (all die) 


Summary: One night, Lilith has just finished feasting on a couple in their house, especially enjoying the man. When she goes to collect her two female familiars, she finds them both dead, sucked dry by none other than her father (creepy organ music) COUNT DRACULA! She greets him by lunging for her, even knowing she can never kill him thanks to the curse that binds her to him. As it turns out, Drac wants to try another truce with Lilith. He's going to have a meeting with some vampire clan heads soon, in an effort to consolidate power bases. With he and his daughter fighting, well, the vampire community gets all the more fractured, and with the two of them united, things could easily turn around. Lilith is suspicious of his motives, but when the time comes, she does in fact show up at Drac's castle for the meeting as a show of solidarity. She even dresses up in one of them fancy victorian gowns! The vampire clan heads are less than thrilled with her actions over the years, and thus, upon first instance of hostility, Lilith ditches the gown for her standard leather outfit, and slaughters all of the vampire clan leaders. Once that's done, she threatens her father, reminding him that whatever power he thinks he possesses, she has the power to take it away. After she leaves, he smiles. One of the vampire leaders, barely alive... err, undead, notices, and before Drac finishes him off, he elaborates that she did just as he'd wanted her to do. Lilith has made herself the enemy of several vampire clans now. Drac's blameless in the matter, and can swoop in and take over the five clans. She really is Daddy's girl after all. 


Continuity notes: Drac's in his standard classic Victorian gothic look, not what he ended up with after the end of the recent Blade series. I'd place it after his TOD4 death (since, there too, he was sporting a modernish look, while the earlier stuff in Blade had him back to basics). 


Calendar notes: It's a cloudy night over... whatever city the first part takes place in. And there's green trees in Translyvania, cloudy skies, and no moon visible anywhere. 

Pages 15-21: Drac kills Lilith's familiars and offers her a truce. 
Pages 22-28: "The Night after Tomorrow". Lilith attends the vampire clan heads meeting, and kills them all, just as Drac had expected. 


------------------------------------ 

I need some help with Anubis' appearances in the MU. 


SATANA 
... 
[Nick Fury's Howling Commandos] 
**LoM:S 1 

**SCORPION QUEEN 
LoM:S 1 

LIVING MUMMY/N'KANTU 
... 
[Civil War] 
**LoM:S 1/2 

**NEPHRUS 
SUPTHR 5 
SUPTHR 14 
M/TIO 95 
LoM:S 1/2 

**ANUBIS [EGYPTIAN GOD] 
[Son of Satan, others] 
LoM:S 1/2 

**KHET 
LoM:S 1/2 

MORBIUS/DR. MICHAEL MORBIUS 
... 
[Amazing Fantasy vol 2 17] 
**LoM:M 1 
[Blade8 5] 

DRACULA/VLAD TEPES 
... 
TOD4 4 
**LoM:M 1/2 
[BLADE8 1-FB] 
BLADE8 1 
... 

LILITH/ANGEL O'HARA/"LILY DRAKE" 
... 
[Nick Fury's Howling Commandos] 
**LoM:M 1/2

			*	*	*

26 Aug 2007 08:07 am 
By Enda80

For what its worth, Anubis' dimension was named in Marvel Double-Shot#3.

			*	*	*

Thread 46

Subject: Namor: The Early Years

24 Aug 2007 11:09 pm 
By Dhall

The 50's Sub-Mariner's are quite unique, in that one of the stories in issues 35-42 was a tale of Namor's youth, growing up under the sea. 

I started analyzing these stories, as well as the first three issues of SAGASM. 

There is also Sub-Mariner Comics 32, which is essentially a "-1" issue from 1949 showing two tales of Namor's Past: One which shows what happens with Fen and Namor's father, and the other with Namor's FIRST rampage in New York City. 

I had to overhaul Namor's origin a bit in general, though it's mostly Fen who has the lengthy origin. Note also that at the present time, I do not have access to 1954's origin of the Sub-Mariner in issue #33, so this will someday get updated again. 



SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 
June 1949 
The Birth of the Sub-Mariner 
Characters Appearing: 
Captain Leonard McKenzie 
Princess Fen 
Rad 
Naka 
Narvik 
Tarot 
Sigor 
Tor 
Doctor Bangal 
Jada 
Emperor Thakkor 

Synopsis: The crew of the Oracle are ready to leave the Antarctic and go home, but Commander McKenzie is nowhere to be found. They send up a plane, and searches out to look for him, but to no avail. The ship leaves without him. The Captain is in a cave, stuck in an ice crevasse. Fen finds him, his leg is broken. She tells him that his ship has left without him, and she gets a couple of men to help her carry him back to the city. It seems they have a castle on the surface. Some of the men want McKenzie executed, but Fen orders them not to. Two decide to defy her, and kill McKenzie, but Fen stops them. Fen calls a meeting of the high council, the emperor is absent for some reason, so she is in command. After she leaves, some of the high council grumble that since the marriage wasnt performed by their rites, it is not legally binding. While his leg heals, Fen tells Leonard that she may not be able to keep her people from killing him. She explains that the real city is underwater, and dives down, to search for a way to save him. She brings up a set of diving gear, taken from the Americans ship. They use the gear, so that she can show him the underwater city. Later back on the ice, she explains to him the situation, about explorers with dynamite causing underwater explosions which are killing her people, and that someday they may have to go to war with America. Fen has a solution, she proposes to Leonard, that they get re-married, under the laws of her people. The high council does not approve, but are powerless to stop her, and so the wedding takes place. Narvick, the supreme elder sends word to Thakkor, who is returning. Thakkor is not pleased at Fens actions. He wishes to have Leonard killed. Leonard explains that his people know nothing about undersea cities. Just then, another American ship approaches, and starts blasting the ice. Fen takes advantage of the confusion, to help Leonard escape. 
Thakkor announces Fens punishment, she is to be kept in the dungeon for the rest of her life. 

Months pass, and a messenger reports to Thakkor, that Fen is given birth, and that he has a grandson. Thakkors first reaction is to have Fen and Namor sent into exile, to join Capt. McKenzie, but his advisors persuade him that he needs a heir. 
Thakkor decides to grant Fen a full pardon, with the condition, that she must take her son and go into exile from the court, until Namor is ten years old. 

Ten Years later: Fen presents Namor to Thakkor and the High Court. Thakkor is pleased, and decrees that from this day forward, Namor will be known as Prince Namor, the Sub-Mariner. 

Many more years later: Namor has learned ten surface languages. Fen and Namor are at home, when there is an explosion. Yet another ship has come, blasting the ice. Namor swims out and sinks it. He tells Fen that he is going to prepare himself for a one-man war against America. 



SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 
Characters Appearing: 
Fen 
Namor 
Dorma 
Betty Dean 
Leonard McKenzie 

Synopsis: Namor tells Fen that he is ready to leave for America. Dorma wishes to accompany him, and he tells her that she can come part way. They go to a lighthouse, where Namor punches the lighthouse keeper, and uses an axe to smash the machinery. This later causes a ship to crash into the rocks. Namor and Dorma leave, and go to New York. Namor tells Dorma to return home, then he attacks New York. He gets into the reservoir, and pollutes the water with mud. Then he starts wrecking the feeder lines to the city. The police fire on him, but he punches one, and then escapes back to the water. Namor wrecks a police car. Officer Dean is given the assignment to take out a patrol boat and hunt down Namor. He throws the boat into the air. In the water, Betty decides that shes going to get him. Namor swims off, to go wreck more havoc. He floods a newly constructed subway tunnel. Namor writes a letter to the mayor, and gives it to a kid, who gives it to a cop to pass on. It gets published in the press, and gets read by Leonard McKenzie, who goes to City Hall, to explain to the mayor, that this Prince is probably one of the undersea race he met on his expedition. In a tunnel, Namor finds some TNT, which he uses to sink the Brooklyn Bridge. He evades a police boat, then attacks the trans-Atlantic telephone cables. Commander McKenzie and Betty Dean spot Namor. McKenzie calls out to Namor in his own language, and then explains that the Americans meant no harm. Namor doesnt believe this, so Betty tries to arrest him. He smacks the gun out of her hand, but other police officers throw a net on him. They take him downtown, but when the van stops, Namor struggles in the net, until he breaks a fire hydrant. The water restores his strength, and he breaks free of the net. He throws the van at the police. Namor runs for the water, and evades fire. He dives right through a boat, and into the water, vowing to return and attack New York again. 

Note: The lighthouse incident is from Marvel Comics 1. 


Young Namor: 

SUB-MARINER 35/2 
The Dawn of the Sub-Mariner 
Characters Appearing: 
Namor 
Fen 
Byrrah 

Synopsis: A young Namor goes out to play Americans vs. Sub-Mariners with Byrrah, but gets trapped above the surface, when the ice closes up. Thinking he will die soon, out of the water, Namor searches for another way to get back under the ice. Instead he finds a seal, with some fishes. When Byrrah finally tells Fen what happened, she has some men drill up into the ice. Once above the surface, she finds Namor, alive and well, despite having been on the surface for twenty hours. Namor has learned that alone of the Sub-Mariners, he can survive out of water. 

SUB-MARINER 36/2 
Courage 
Characters Appearing: 
Namor 
Byrrah 
Dekka 
Fen 

Synopsis: Friday, Feb. 2nd, Namors tenth birthday. A blizzard don the surface, has forced Namor to back underwater, but Byrrah calls him a coward, and dares him to go back up. So he does, and the blizzard still rages. Namor spends a little time out on the ice, but finally realizes that to survive, he must go back under. Namor is attacked by wild dogs, and is worried at first, until he learns that he is much stronger than they, and has no difficulty in fighting them, then going back underwater. He shows a couple of the dead dogs to his mother. 

SUB-MARINER 37/2 
Characters Appearing: 
Namor 
Fen 
Byrrah 

Synopsis: Namor is age 12. Princess Fen, and Namor go exploring a shipwreck. Unkown to them, Byrrah is following them. The ship is the U.S.S. Bryd, which was one of the ships sank by the Sub-Mariners in their attack on Namors fathers convoy (due to the Americans breaking up the ice-floes.) Byrrah, intending to hurt Namor, pulls on some ropes, and drops a mast on them, which hits Fen, who has pushed Namor out of the way, trapping her legs under it. Byrrah, realizing his mistake, hides so that Namor wont see him, as he would, if Byrrah simply swam away. Namor struggles mightily with the beam, and is eventually able to move it, freeing Fen. Byrrah is trapped in the wreck, and calls out for help. Namor frees him, and Byrrah admits what he did. Thinking that maybe Byrrah has learned his lesson, Namor lets it go, and they take Fen back to get help for her legs. 

SUB-MARINER 38/2 
Wings on his Feet 
Characters Appearing: 
Namor 
Fen 

Synopsis: Namor is age 14. He and Fen go for a walk on the ice. There is a rumbling under their feet, and a chasm opens up in the ice, which Fen falls into. Namor holds onto the edge, but falls himself, until he realizes that he is flying. He flies down to his mother, whose leg is broken. She thinks its the end, but Namor surprises her, by using his flying powers to rescue them both. Once safely back underwater, Fen notices that Namors feet now have tiny wings. 

SUB-MARINER 39/2 
The Sub-Mariner gets a lesson in humility from Namora! 
Characters Appearing: 
Namor 
Fen 
Namora 
Byrrah 

Synopsis: Namor is age 15. Fen introduces Namor to his cousin Namora, who he hasnt seen since they were babies. She tells Namor, that her father named her for him. Namor is ashamed of her, because she is a girl, and doesnt want to be embarresed in front of his friends. (Which is exactly what Byrrah tries to do.) Telling Namora to stay behind, Namor and Byrrah go to play in a sunken submarine, which they are not supposed to do. Namora follows them, intending to teach them a lesson. Byrrah convinces Namor to get into the torpedo tube, and shuts the hatch, intending to shoot him out of it. Unfortunatly for Namor, the bow hatch is closed, and he is trapped in the tube. Byrrah runs off, leaving Namor to suffocate, so that he doesnt get in trouble for playing in the wreck. Namora was the one who closed the other hatch, to teach Namor a lesson in battle strategy. She cant open the inside hatch, but swims out of the wreck, and forces open the bow hatch, freeing Namor. She is sorry about the whole thing, and Namor forgives her. He also realizes that shes okay, and it was Byrrah and his other friends who are the punks. 

SUB-MARINER 40/2 
The Sub-Mariner meets a new enemy  Fire 
Characters Appearing: 
Namor 
Namora 
Byrrah 


Synopsis: Namor is age 16. He is on an expedition with Namora and Byrrah, to find Admiral Bryds abondonded settlement on the Ross ice shelf in Antartica. The site consists of a bunch of old wooden shacks. Exploring one of them, Namora knocks over a can of kerosene, which strikes a metal object as it falls, creating a spark. The shack quickly goes up in flames. While Byrrah runs away, Namor goes to help his cousin. He is hit on th head by a falling piece of timber, and knocked into the sea, but comes out to try again. With his body soaked in water, Namor is able to get through the flaming door. He is able to rescue Namora, and leap out of the shack just in time, before an explosion. A can of food hits him in the back, and later they both eat it. 


SUB-MARINER 41/2 
Bird of Prey! 
Characters Appearing: 
Namor 
Byrrah 
Fen 

Synopsis: Namor is age 17. He flaunts his power to fly in front of Byrrah. Namor is shot at by a plane, which he thinks is a bird, and attacks it, releasing some bombs, which fall and explode. He grabs the plane, and forces it down, into the water, but is caught in the downdraft. He falls into the sea, but the explosion from the plane causes him to go flying again. He falls back to earth and wakes up. His mother is there, and so is part of the plane with a Nazi insignia on it. Fen tells Namor that he is a hero for downing the Nazi plane. He resolves in the future, to be more humble about his ability to fly. 

SUB-MARINER 42/2 
Characters Appearing: 
Namor 
Ice King 
Fen 
Emperor Thrakkor 

Synopsis: Namor explores a cave, and meets the Ice King. He talks with him, and then goes home to tell his mother, who doesnt believe him. Weeks pass, and catastrophe strikes, the seals and walruses in the area, start disappearing. The Emperor calls a council, and Namor comes up with a plan. Everyone laughs at him, as his plan is to go the Ice King for help. Namor goes anyway. Namor pushes icebergs into position, and the Ice King freezes them shut, thus creating a ring of ice to trap any remaining food. Still no one believes him about the Ice King. Namor returns to see him, but the Ice King says he can only show himself to one mortal every ten years, in time of disaster. The cave closes up behind Namor. 

SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE 
**SAGASM 1-FB (Fen shows baby Namor to Thakkor for the first time) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Baby Namor is present, when Thakkor grants Fen a full pardon) 
** SAGASM 2-FB-FB (Before the ten-year Exile begins, Fen is allowed to show baby Namor to the court) 
FF:SE-FB 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Namor, age 10, is presented to the court) 
N 20-FB 
TTA 96-FB 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 35/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 36/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 37/2 
** SAGASM 2-FB-FB (Namor shows off his strength, by lifting a huge mast from a sunken derelict) 
**YOUNG MEN 24/3-FB (Namor sits on an ice flow with penguins) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (main fb) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 38/2 (1st panel) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Earthquake, run for the ___) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 38/2 (Fall into crevasse) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (crevasse closing up) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 38/2 (Namor flying with Fen) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (splash into ocean, then at home) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 38/2 (wings on Namors feet) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Namor practices flying) 
**SUB-M 38-FB (Namor shows off his flying abilities) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Namor is playing with Byrrah and Merrano when) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 (Fen calls him to met Namora) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Namora tells him that she can do anything he can, except fly) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 (Lets go the submarine) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Namora tags along with the group to the sunken submarine) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 (rest of story) 
ORDER 6-FB 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 40/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 41/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 42/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Namor sinks a ship, and decides that he wants to fight America) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Salvages wreck, leaves knife behind, has audience with Thrakkor) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Returns to wreck to find his knife) 
** MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY (Divers see Namor) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (he swims away) 
MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY (Namor kills divers, thinking they are robots, then wrecks a ship) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (brings divers back to city) 
** MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY (Brings divers into chapel-like chamber) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (At Byrrahs suggestion, Thakkor orders Namor into battle with the Americans) 
**SUB-M 38-FB (Thakkor wishes Namor good hunting) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 (Namor leaves for America) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Dorma follows Namor, and pleads with him to let her go with him) 
** MARVEL COMICS 1/3 (Dorma wishes to come with, and Namor decides she can come part way) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 (Namor tells Dorma to stay out of his way) 
** MARVEL COMICS 1/3 (They see Cape Anna lighthouse, Namor goes to the door) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 (Namor punches the lighthouse keeper) 
** MARVEL COMICS 1/3 (Namor takes an axe to the lighthouse controls, then answers Dormas cry for help.) 
** MARVEL COMICS 1/3 (Namor fights guards, he and Dorma destroy the lighthouse beacon, then steal a plane. Namor punches the pilot, then puts Dorma in the cockpit, and tells her to wreck it. He dives off. 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 (They meet up on the island, then go into the sea, and observe a ship that gets wrecked due to the lack of the beacon. Then they journey to New York City harbor.) (Then Namor goes on a rampage against New York City.) 

MARVEL COMICS 1 <-Remove 
SAGASM 2 <-Remove 
MARVEL COMICS 1 <-Remove 

MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 2 <-s/b MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 2/3 
*SAGASM 3-FB PG. 9 PANELS 1-3 
** MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 2/3 
*SAGASM 3-FB PG. 9 PANELS 5-6, PG. 10, PG. 11 PNLS 1,2 
** MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 2/3 
**MARVELS 1-FB (Namor looks back at cops from water) 
**SAGASM 3-FB PG. 11 PNL 3-4 
**SUB-M 38-FB (Namor flies over NYC, throws a bus, gets some paint, and paints his ultimatum for the surface dwellers to leave Atlantis alone on a billboard, and puts it up over Times Square.) 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3 <-s/b MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Betty and Namor exchange names) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Betty shouts at Namor to come back, when he leaves her on the buoy) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Betty explains to Namor, the differences between the Nazis and the Americans) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Namor sinks a Nazi sub) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Namor comes back to the island for Betty) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 (Betty asks Namor if he will continue to help the Allies) 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Namor says he has issues with all surface dwellers, one of the British seamen shoots him, he destroys the gun, then decides that he will return to Atlantis, to organize his people, and that they will destroy all warships, and allow only peaceful shipping though) 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 4 <-s/b MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 4/3 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 5 <-s/b MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 5/3 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 6 <-s/b MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 6/3 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7 <-s/b MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7/3 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 8 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 9 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 10 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 1 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 17 
HUMAN TORCH 5 
N 20-FB 
CA 423 
INV 4-FB 
INV 29-FB 
GSINV 1 

PRINCESS FEN [ATLANTEAN] 
**SAGASM 1-FB (Fen helps rescue people trapped under debris, but is commanded to see her father.) 
**SAGASM 1-FB (Fen goes to see Thakkor) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Thakkor tells Fen that he has a mission for her.) 
FF@ 1-FB (Thrakkor commands Fen to gather a team to investigate destruction.) 
** MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY -FB (Fen stands in throne room with Thakkor, note that the dialogue in this fb, which has Thakkor ordering Fen to go up to the surface herself,and work her feminine wiles, does not match with the later Marvel Age version, where Thakkor merely orders her to send a team to the surface.) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen asks Thakkor if she should lead the expedition, but he says he will not risk her life on this.) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen goes to see Ikthon, and asks for a potion that will enable her to breath air for a time.) 
FF:SE-FB (Fen goes herself, swims to surface) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen surfaces, sees the Oracle) 
FF@ 1-FB (Fen climbs on board Oracle) 
FF:SE-FB (Fen explores deck) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen explores deck, is spotted by a crewman) 
** MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY -FB (The crewman cries out for help from the other crew) 
** FF:SE-FB (Fen is grabbed by a crewman) 
**SUB-M 1-FB (Fen is held by one of the crewmen) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen fights crew, including Destine, but allows herself to be captured) 
** FF:SE-FB (sees Leonard for the first time) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (speaks to Leonard in his cabin) 
FF@ 1-FB (Leonard notices that Fen has difficulty breathing air, cannot speak English) 
**SUB-M 1-FB (scene continues, Leonard checks out Fens blue skin, makes a mermaid joke) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard gives Fen some warmer clothing) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard teaches Fen English) 
** MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY -FB (Fen swims in ocean) 
** FF@ 1-FB (Fen swims in ocean, while Leonard watches her) 
FF:SE-FB (Fen and Leonard walk together on ice) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen sneaks off ship, returns to city) 
** MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY -FB (Fen reports to Thakkor) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen briefs Thakkor on how her mission is going) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen returns to Oracle) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen and Leonard share a kiss, and fall in love) 
FF@ 1-FB (Leonard proposes) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard says I do. Before the chaplain is ready.) 
**SUB-M 38-FB (Do you take) 
** FF@ 1-FB (the wedding ceremony) 
**SUB-M 1-FB (Fen and Leonard do not wait for the chaplain to say the words You may kiss the bride.) 
**SUB-M 44-FB (The Chaplain congratulates the couple) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (The Wedding night) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen watches Leonard prepares expedition to find city of ancients) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard returns to Fen, determined to take her back to California, Fen tries to explain about Atlanteans, but no one listens to her.) 
**FF:SE-FB (Fen watches the battle between Leonard and her fathers men, Leonard is struck down, presumed dead) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen sees that he has been hit) 
**FF:SE-FB (Fen holds Leonards body) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Krangs men grab Fen, and take her back to the city) 
**SUB-M 1-FB (Thakkor is happy to have his daughter returned to him, Fen tells him that she loved one of the surface men.) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Fen meets Leonard again, and rescues him) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen shows her baby to Thakkor) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Thakkor grants Fen a full pardon) 
** SAGASM 2-FB-FB (Before the ten-year Exile begins, Fen is allowed to show baby Namor to the court) 
**FF:SE-FB (Fen and another woman hold baby Namor) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Fen presents 10 year old Namor to the court) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 35/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 36/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 37/2 
** SAGASM 2-FB-FB (Namor shows off his strength, by lifting a huge mast from a sunken derelict) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (main fb) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 38/2 (1st panel) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Earthquake, run for the ___) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 38/2 (Fall into crevasse) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (crevasse closing up) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 38/2 (Namor flying with Fen) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (splash into ocean, then at home) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 38/2 (wings on Namors feet) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 41/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 42/2 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Fen is present when Namor goes out and sinks a ship) 
**SAGASM 2-FB 
** MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY 
**SAGASM 2-FB (At Byrrahs suggestion, Thrakkor orders Namor into battle) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 (Fen is present when Namor leaves for New York) 
CA:SL2 2 
CA:SL2 3 
CA:SL2 4 
N 39-FB 
N 36-FB 
{N 29} 
N 30 

NAMORA/AQUARIA NAUTICA NEPTUNIA [ATLANTEAN] 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Namora says I cant fly, but I can do anything else you can) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 (She meets Byrrah and Merrino) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Namora tags along with Namor to the sunken submarine) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 
ORDER 6-FB 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 40/2 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 82 
CV2 1 
M/:LG 2 
{SUB-M 33-FB} 
N 20-FB 
M/:LG 3 
SUB-M 51-FB 
SUB-M 50 

BYRRAH/ [ATLANTEAN] 
SAGASM 2-FB <- s/b SAGASM 2-FB-FB 
**SUB-MARINER 35/2 
**SUB-MARINER 36/2 
**SUB-MARINER 37/2 
** SAGASM 2-FB 
**SUB-MARINER 39/2 
** SAGASM 2-FB 
**SUB-MARINER 39/2 
** SAGASM 2-FB 
**SUB-MARINER 39/2 
**SUB-MARINER 40/2 
**SUB-MARINER 41/2 
SAGASM 2-FB (suggests to Thrakkor, that now is the time to order Namor into battle) 
SAGASM 5-FB 
M/:LG 3 
{TTA 90} 
TTA 91 
SUB-M 51-FB 
SUB-M 33 
SUB-M 51-FB 
SUB-M 50 
SUB-M 51 

*EMPOROR THAKKOR 
SAGASM 1-FB (Prince Thakkor stands over his dead father, after a barbarian invasion) 
FF: SE-FB (investigates destruction) 
SAGASM 1-FB (Thakkor tells Fen that he has a mission for her.) 
FF@ 1-FB (commands Fen to gather a team to investigate) 
** MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY -FB (Fen stands in throne room with Thakkor, note that the dialogue in this fb, which has Thakkor ordering Fen to go up to the surface herself,and work her feminine wiles, does not match with the later Marvel Age version, where Thakkor merely orders her to send a team to the surface.) 
SAGASM 1-FB (Fen asks Thakkor if she should lead the expedition, but he says he will not risk her life on this.) 
** MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY -FB (Fen reports to Thakkor) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen briefs Thakkor on how her mission is going) 
FF: SE-FB (Thakkor wonders where his daughter is, and sends an expedition to retrieve her) 
SUB-M 1-FB (Thakkor is happy to have his daughter returned to him, she tells him that she loved one of the surface men.) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Thakkor sentences Fen to life imprisonment) 
SAGASM 1-FB (Thakkor sees his grandson, Namor for the first time) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Thakkor pardons Fen) 
** SAGASM 2-FB-FB (Before the ten-year Exile begins, Fen is allowed to show baby Namor to the court) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (Ten years later, Fen presents Namor to the court) 
N 20-FB 
** SAGASM 2-FB-FB (Namor shows off his strength, by lifting a huge mast from a sunken derelict) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (main fb) 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 42/2 
**SAGASM 2-FB 
**MOTION PICTURES FUNNIES WEEKLY 
**SAGASM 2-FB (At Byrrahs suggestion, Thrakkor orders Namor into battle) 
**SUB-M 38-FB (Thakkor wishes Namor good hunting) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 4/3 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 5/3 
** MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7/3 

ICE KING 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 42/2 

DORMA [ATLANTEAN] 
SAGASM 2-FB (Dorma watches Namor play with Namora and Byrrah) 
**SAGASM 2-FB (Dorma follows Namor, and pleads with him to let her go with him) 
**MARVEL COMICS 1/3 (Dorma wishes to accompany Namor to New York, he agrees that she can go part-way) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 (Namor tells her to keep out of his way) 
**MARVEL COMICS 1/3 (The see Cape Anna lighthouse) 
**MARVEL COMICS 1/3 (Namor and Dorma destroy the lighthouse) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 (Namor and Dorma go to New York City harbor.) 
SAGASM 5-FB 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 10 
{FF@ 1} 
FF 33-FB 
FF 33 
DD 7 
TTA 70 

MCKENZIE, LEONARD 
IM&SM 1/2-FB <- Remove, in wrong place per SAGASM 1 (Goes up ice mountain with Paul Destine) 
**SAGASM 1-FB (Speaks with Paul Destine, gets ready to drop charges) 
{FF@ 1-FB} (On Antarctic expedition, drops depth charges to clear ice floes, damages undersea city.) 
**SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard and Paul Destine watches explosions) 
**SUB-M 1-FB (Some of the charges are very strong, the men on the Oracle duck for cover) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (crewman comes to Leonards quarters, tells him about prisoner) 
** FF:SE-FB (sees Fen for the first time) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (speaks to Fen, when she is brought into his cabin, Destine present) 
FF@ 1-FB (notices Fen has difficulty breathing air, & she speaks an unknown language) 
**SUB-M 1-FB (scene continues, Leonard checks out Fens blue skin, makes a mermaid joke) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard gives Fen some warmer clothing) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard teaches Fen English) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen and Leonard share a kiss, and fall in love) 
** FF@ 1-FB (Fen swims in ocean, while Leonard watches her) 
FF:SE-FB (Fen and Leonard walk together on ice) 
FF@ 1-FB (Leonard proposes) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard says I do. Before the chaplain is ready.) 
**SUB-M 38-FB (Do you take) 
** FF@ 1-FB (the wedding ceremony) 
**SUB-M 1-FB (Fen and Leonard do not wait for the chaplain to say the words You may kiss the bride.) 
**SUB-M 44-FB (The Chaplain congratulates the couple) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (The Wedding night) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard prepares expedition to find city of ancients) 
** IM&SM 1/2-FB (Goes up ice mountain with Paul Destine) (Per SAGASM 1, this should go here.) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard and Destine find cave) 
** IM&SM 1/2-FB (Leonard and Destine find ancients dynamo, Paul wont share it, breaks ice, avalanche occurs) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard returns to his men, his boat, and his wife, determined to take her back to California.) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Oracle is attacked by Blue skinned men, with strange guns) 
** FF@ 1-FB (Leonard fights Thakkors men on board Oracle) 
**SUB-M 1-FB (Leonard is shot at, and wounded by Thakkors men) 
** FF:SE-FB (Leonard is hit, presumed dead) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Fen sees that he has been hit) 
**FF:SE-FB (Fen holds Leonards body) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (The Crew realize that Leonard is not dead, but only injured, his concern for Fen goes unheeded by the crew, who use more explosives to break ship free of ice) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32 (With Fens help, Leonard escapes from Fens people) 
SUB-M 44-FB (He receives medical attention, back in the U.S.) 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 (He encounters Namor in New York, though he doesnt know Namor is his son.) 
**SUB-M 44-FB (tries to get another expedition going, but it fails) 
SUB-M 43 
SUB-M 44 
SUB-M 45 
SUB-M 46 
H2 160-FB 

DESTINY/PAUL DESTINE 
IM&SM 1/2-FB (Joins Leonard McKenzies expedition) 
**SAGASM 1-FB (Reminds Leonard about his promise to look for city of the ancients) 
**SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard and Paul Destine watches explosions) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Destine and other crew members fight Fen, who allows herself to be captured.) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Brings Fen into Leonards cabin, tells him theory that she is one of the ancients) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard prepares expedition to find city of ancients) 
** IM&SM 1/2-FB (goes up ice mountain with McKenzie) 
** SAGASM 1-FB (Leonard and Destine find cave) 
** IM&SM 1/2-FB (Leonard and Destine find ancients dynamo, Paul wont share it, breaks ice, avalanche occurs) 
SUB-M 1-FB 
{TTA 101/2} 
IM&SM 1/2 
SUB-M 1 
SUB-M 6 
SUB-M 7 
SUB-M 8-FB 

IKTHON 
**SAGASM 1-FB (gives Fen the breathing potion) 
**SAGASM 1-FB (Tells Thakkor he has a grandson) 
SAGASM 5-FB 
{SUB-M 7} 
SUB-M 9 
SUB-M 15-FB 
SUB-M 15 
SUB-M 16 
SUB-M 17 
SUB-M 21 
SUB-M 22 
SUB-M 31 
SUB-M 32 
SUB-M 34-BTS 
SUB-M 35 
SUB-M 37 
SUB-M 38-FB 

KORMOK 
SUB-M 17-FB <-Remove, Kormok does not appear in this fb 
**SAGASM 1-FB (Kormok is present when Thakkor sees baby Namor for the first time) 
SUB-M 17 
SUB-M 18 

PRENTISS, BETTY DEAN 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 32/2 (Officer Betty Dean encounters Namor in New York City) 
**SAGASM 3-FB 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
**SAGASM 3-FB 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Betty shouts at Namor to come back, when he leaves her on the buoy) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Betty explains to Namor, the differences between the Nazis and the Americans) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Namor comes back to the island for Betty) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 (Betty asks Namor if he will continue to help the Allies) 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Namor says he has issues with all surface dwellers, one of the British seamn shoots him, he destroys the gun, then decides that he will return to Atlantis, to organize his people, and that they will destroy all warships, and allow only peaceful shipping though) 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 4/3 
**MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 5/3 
** MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 6/3 
** MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7/3 

MARVELS 1 
INV 29-FB 
INV 4 
M/U 1 
{SUB-M 8-FB} 
SUB-M 8 
SUB-M 52 
SUB-M 54 
SUB-M 55 
SUB-M 57 
DEF 5 
SUB-M 61 
SUB-M 62-BTS 
SUB-M 70 
SVTU 2 

*BRYNN 
SAGASM 2-FB-FB 

U-MAN/MERRANO 
SAGASM 2-FB 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 (According to Sagasm 2, he is the friend of Byrrahs in this story) 
**SAGASM 2-FB 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 
**SAGASM 2-FB 
**SUB-MARINER COMICS 39/2 
INV 4-FB 
{INV 3-FB} 
INV 4 
INV 37 
INV 38 
INV 39 
INV 40 
INV 41 


*WILSON, CHIEF JOHN C. 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Appoints Betty Dean to Namors case) 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Asks the Torch to fight Namor, if Namor should return to New York City.) 
YOUNG MEN 24 
YOUNG MEN 25 
YOUNG MEN 26 
YOUNG MEN 27 
HUMAN TORCH 36 
HUMAN TORCH 36/2 
MENS ADVENTURES 27 
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 76/3 
YOUNG MEN 28 
HUMAN TORCH 37/2 


HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND 
MARVEL COMICS 1 (1 - 4) 
MARVELS 1 (7 - 9) 
MARVEL COMICS 1 (5 - 16) 
SAGAHT 1 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 2 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 3 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 4 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 5 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 6 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7 
**SAGASM 3-FB (Wilson asks Torch to keep an eye out for Namor) 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 8 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 9 
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 10

			*	*	*

27 Aug 2007 09:07 am 
By Frederic Krier

Very nice. I've been looking for something like this for a while. 
Now the question is where the 2003 "Tsunami" Namor series fits in with the other childhood stories from the fifties. It didn't really work all that well within established continuity, as far as I remember, but Namor's recent entry in the OHOTMU Appendix does refer to it. 

Hmmm... I'll do an analysis of the 12 issues, as they're not in the MCP yet. Give me a week or so...

			*	*	*

Thread 47

Subject: Black Widow v2 #3

29 Aug 2007 07:02 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Black Widow v2 #3 
Published: May, 2001 

Appearances: 
Black Widow II(Natasha Romanova), Black Widow III(Yelena Belova), Daredevil(Matt Murdock), Col. Nick Fury, Col. Yuri Stalyenko. 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg21 
The Black Widow beats up the Russian agent following her while Daredevil calms down the new Black Widow. Later, the Black Widow confronts Col. Stalyenko about his nuclear weapons. Daredevil and the new Black Widow arrive and they subdue the Russian and his agents. Afterwards, the Black Widows settle their differences. That night, Col. Fury and Daredevil watch as SHIELD surgeons unswitch the Black Widows faces. 
Pg22: a few days later 
The new Black Widow returns to Russia. 

References: 
Believe it or not, this issue follows last issue for everyone involved. 

Suggestions: 

BLACK WIDOW II/NATASHA ROMANOVA 
 
BW 2 2 
*BW2 3 
A3 32 
 

BLACK WIDOW III/YELENA BELOVA 
... 
BW2 2 
*BW2 3 

DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK 
 
BW2 2 
*BW2 3 
PUN5 3 
 


FURY, COL. NICHOLAS "NICK" JOSEPH 
 
BW2 2 
*BW2 3 
CA3 31 
 

STALYENKO, COL. YURI 
 
BW2 2 
*BW2 3

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 48

Subject: Marvel Boy v2 #6

29 Aug 2007 07:06 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Marvel Boy #6 
Published: March, 2001 

Appearances: 
Marvel Boy(Noh-Varr), Doctor Midas, Oubliette, Plex Intelligence, Dum Dum Dugan, President Bill Clinton 

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg21 
Noh-Varr and Oubliette battle a Mindless One. Elsewhere, Doctor Midas exposes himself to Cosmic Radiation. Meanwhile, the Plex Intelligence attempts to defend itself. Elsewhere, Doctor Midas emerges with the combined powers of the Fantastic Four and calls himself the Cosmic Man. Noh-Varr arrives and attacks Cosmic Man, Oubliette arrives and shoots him with the head of a Mindless One. SHIELD forces, led by Dum Dum Dugan, arrive and arrest Noh-Varr. Subwhere, the Cosmic Man finds himself surrounded by Mindless Ones. The Plex Intelligence has been reconnected. Its not as lucid as it used to be, and its trying to remember Noh-Varr. 
Pg22-pg23: later 
Oubliette has attacked and demolished Disneyland. President Clinton watches her demands on television. Elsewhere, Noh-Varr has been imprisoned in the Cube. 

References: 
Continued from last issue. Thats no problem for this books characters, but we have appearances by Dugan & Clinton to place. 

Oubliette is actually her birth name, and shes the daughter of Doctor Midas. Is Midas his last name, or is Doctor Midas a code-name? If its his surname, its hers as well. In any case, the / should be removed from her entry. 

Doctor Midas renames himself Cosmic Man. If Midas is his last name, and not a code-name, should we re-classify him as COSMIC MAN/DOCTOR MIDAS? 

Placement suggestions: 

DOCTOR MIDAS 
 
MB2 5 
*MB2 6 

MARVEL BOY VIII/NOH-VARR 
... 
MB2 5 
*MB2 6 

OUBLIETTE 
 
MB2 5 
*MB2 6 

PLEX INTELLIGENCE 
 
MB2 5 
*MB2 6 

CLINTON, WILLIAM JEFFERSON BLYTHE IV 
 
IFW 3 
BP3 27-BTS 
*MB2 6 
UX 401 

DUGAN, TIMOTHY ALOYISIOUS CADWALLADER "DUM DUM" 
 
CA3 35 
CA '00 
CA '00/2 
*MB2 6 
CA3 37 
CA3 38 


Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.

			*	*	*

Thread 49

Subject: X-51 9-12

30 Aug 2007 04:19 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

X-51 #9 
Published: April, 2000 

Appearances: 
Machine Man/X-51/Aaron Stack 

Synopsis: 
X-51 purges the sentinel programming from his systems. 

References: 
Really, thats all that happens. The last two pages are the only pages that actually happen, everything else is in X-51s head. 

X-51 #10 
Published: May, 2000 

Appearances: 
Machine Man/X-51/Aaron Stack, Miss Merrick, X.E.R.O., 

Synopsis: 
Street biker gangs fight in Central City. Some are arrested, and one is saved by X-51. Elsewhere, X.E.R.O. contacts an A.I.M. base. Meanwhile, Miss Merrick plots to take over Central City and is offered help by a mysterious friend. Shes posted bail for the jailed bike gang members. Later, Central City is attacked by the biker gang, who have been turned into cyborgs. X-51 goes to help. 

References: 
No mention of how long its been since last issue. 

X-51 #11 
Published: June, 2000 

Appearances: 
Machine Man/X-51/Aaron Stack, Miss Merrick, X.E.R.O., M.O.D.O.K., Celestials 

Synopsis: 
X-51 battles the cyborg bikers. Meanwhile, Miss Merrick is upset that Machine Man is stopping her plans, but the mysterious helper has her killed. Meanwhile, M.O.D.O.K. arrives at the A.I.M. facility, and X.E.R.O. attacks. Meanwhile, X-51 battles the cyborgs, who start to merge with each other. Then, they merge with X-51. His consciousness is expanded and hes contacted by the Celestials. In Outer Space, a Monolith approaches Earth 

References: 
Thats right 

X-51 #12 
Published: July, 2000 

Appearances: 
Machine Man/X-51/Aaron Stack, Uatu the Watcher, X.E.R.O., M.O.D.O.K., Celestial, Abel Stack-FB, Col. Joe Kragowski-FB 

Synopsis: 
Pg1: the moon 
The Watcher watches as a Monolith nears Earth. 
Pg2-pg3-FB 
Recap of 2001: A Space Odyssey,(either the movie or the treasury edition, take your pick) no new information. 
Pg4-FB 
Abel Stack begins research into artificial intelligent life. 
Pg5-FB 
X-29 is created. Unlike the previous attempts in the X-series, which were all insane, this one is insane & homicidal. Col. Kragowski and his military unit destroy it. 
Pg6-pg13-FB 
Recap of the life & times of X-51: Machine Man, from 2001 #8 to X-51 #8. No new information. 
Pg14-pg24: now! 
X.E.R.O. defeats M.O.D.O.K. and takes control of the A.I.M. facility. Meanwhile, the Monolith enters Earths orbit. X-51 has been changed by the cosmic energies now flowing through him and surveys the damage done to Central City by the biker cyborgs. The Monolith lands and X-51 enters it. He sees a possible future ruled by his brother X.E.R.O. and decides to stop him. He leaves the Monolith, empowers the remaining bikers, and together they defeat X.E.R.O.. He rejoins the Monolith and is called to the waiting Celestials. The Watcher watches, and wonders if X-51 will ever return to Earth. 

References: 
2001 #8 begins with X-35 asking why he was constructed, so pg5-FB would precede that. 

Theres a workable gap between issues 9 & 10 if we need somewhere for any missing contemporary appearances by X-51 to go, but they cant go after issue 12 unless theyre of him in space with the Celestials. X-51 returns from his time with the Celestials in Nextwave 5-FB. Also, none of the Celestials appearing here are named. 

Ill suggest that X-51s human name be added to his listing. 

Some placement suggestions: 

MACHINE MAN/X-51/AARON STACK 
 
X51 7 
X51 8-FB 
X51 8 
*X51 9
*X51 10
*X51 11
*X51 12
*NW: AOH 5-FB
*NW: AOH 1 
 

UATU 
 
DPOOL3 24 
REMNANTS 
*X51 12 
A:CS 1 
FF '01 
FF3 46 
FF3 49 

MODOK/GEORGE TARLETON 
 
W2 142 
W2 143 
*X51 11
*X51 12 
CV 1 
CV 2 
 

STACK, ABEL 
X51 12-FB 
2001 8 

KRAGOWSKI, COL. JOE 
X51 12-FB 
2001 8 
2001 9 

I didnt care too much for the first eight issues of this series, but they completely redeemed themselves to me with the last three. If any of you have never read Kirbys treasury sized adaptation of 2001: A Space Odyssey, or the ten issue 2001: A Space Odyssey series, I highly recommend it. I love em.

Colonel Fury was mentioned, in the usual nervous whisper.
