	Marvel Universe Forum
1. Spider-Man: With Great Power
2. Villains in New Avengers #35
3. Spider-Man: Swing Shift
4. Thor Annual #9
5. WBN 37 correction
6. W3 62-FB
7. New Avengers #38 (SPOILERS)
8. M/CP2 6/3
9. Fiorello LaGuardia
10. She-Hulk #25
11. MJ typo for ASMU 2/2
12. Nova Annual #1
13. Cable & Deadpool 50!

	Newswire Forum
14. Coming from Marvel in May

	Issue Analysis Forum
15. Human Torch 6-8
16. Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 & TOS 54
17. Calendar; Punisher: Force of Nature 1
18. Marvel Comics Presents v2 #3/2
19. Spider-Man Special Edition: Trial of Venom
20. Daring Mystery Comics 1-4
21. Silver Surfer: In Thy Name 1-4
22. Howard the Duck v3 1-4
23. X-23: Target X 1-6
24. New Avengers Military giveaway no.5
25. Hulk vs. Fin Fang Foom 1
26. Mystic Arcana: Black Knight 1
27. February call for analyses
28. Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears 1-6
29. Ghost Rider v6 14-19

	Chat Forum
30. Ghost Rider #18 revelations...(Spoilers)




Thread 1

Subject: Spider-Man: With Great Power

Feb 03, 2008 10:58 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Does anyone have plans to do a chronological breakdown of Spider-Man: With Great Power and how it fits into Amazing Fantasy #15, Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man #60/2, Spider-Man's Tangled Web #14, Sensational Spider-Man #40 flashback, Untold Tales of Spider-Man #12 flashback, Amazing Fantasy #17 flashback, Marvel Comics Presents #120/4 flashback, etc.?

I see there are topical differences between the retelling in With Great Power and the original story -- the prize money amount, Crusher Hogan's coif, etc. -- but these probably can be ignored.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 04, 2008 9:38 am 
By cweed4

Considering the number of red flags in this first issue it might be prudent to wait and see if this series will even belong in continuity before taking the time to do a full analysis.


On a personal note, I was disappointed w/ the issue. The story was just ok. The art was disappointing. Spidey looked too muscular and the depictions of Ben, Liz & Flash were just weird. The worst "topical" glitch was the bunny-ear stocking for Pete's 1st wrestling appearance. 

			*	*	*

Thread 2

Subject: Villains in New Avengers #35

Oct 14, 2007 10:36 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

In the latest installment of "Identify the Super-Villain Horde," we have NEW AVENGERS #35. 

On page 7, panel 1, clockwise around table, I see (w/help from panels on page 8): 
Mentallo, Crusader, Chemistro III, Jigsaw, Griffin, Vanisher, Cutthroat, Tiger Shark, ??? (woman in purple w/gray-blue diamonds down front), ???, Hood, Mr. Hyde, Mr. Fear IV or V, Purple Man, Grey Gargoyle, Answer, Blackout II, ??? (guy in hooded jacket), ??? (guy w/blue face, gray jacket, and yellow front), Dr. Demonicus, Gronk? (a large yellowish guy), one of the Blood Brothers, Machete? 

In the outer ring, going clockwise starting at upper right, I see: 
Rampage?, Constrictor, Mandrill, Crossfire, ??? (guy in blue and red), ??? (bluish silver guy), ??? (red guy), ???, Vector, ???, ??? (guy in purple Titania-type mask), ??? (back of head only), ??? (brown-haired guy), ??? (shadowed guy in chair), Controller, ??? (another seated guy), Armadillo, ??? (guy with blue cowl and gray coat) 

Is there anyone who shows up on another page who we don't see here?

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Oct 14, 2007 1:01 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Madame Mask, the Wizard, and the Wrecking Crew(Wrecker, Thunderball, Piledriver, & Bulldozer) are counting money on pg21-pg22. 

For some reason I want to say that the guy next to Armadillo(to our left) is Trapster.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Oct 14, 2007 3:16 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Col_Fury wrote: 
>>>
Madame Mask, the Wizard, and the Wrecking Crew(Wrecker, Thunderball, Piledriver, & Bulldozer) are counting money on pg21-pg22. 
<<<

Good catch. I see another guy on page 12, panel 1 -- a guy with short blond hair wearing a green shirt -- Bushwacker? Then there's the girl who says "Amazing!" on page 18, panel 2. And, Curtis Carr, the original Chemistro, is seen in street clothes talking to long "John" baldy (the guy I tagged as Vanisher, but maybe not) on page 18. Maybe Carr is the shadowed guy in the chair on page 7. Then there's another bald guy with goggles on page 19. 

I think the "Titania-mask" guy may be Piledriver with some coloring issues.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Oct 14, 2007 7:07 pm 
By Mikhail

That's not Vanisher between Griffin and Cutthroat, it's John King, Hood's proxy. 

Instead of Machete, I think that might be Thermo. 

That's Deathwatch and the rest of the U-Foes around Crossfire and Vector. 

Nitro shows up on the previous page where Chemistro and Mentallo are on the group shot.

			*	*	*

Jan 03, 2008 9:32 am 
By jannepie

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Gronk? (a large yellowish guy) 
<<<

Okay, here's the only picture I could find for Gronk: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/gronkminion.htm He seems to have a more humane face and ears, whereas the yellowish guy here seems to have a white face in page 8.


Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Machete? 
<<<

This one seems to have a cape and purple in his costume. Machete has neither, has he? Does Thermo have a cape or am I imagining the cape?


Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
??? (guy in purple Titania-type mask), ??? (back of head only), ??? (brown-haired guy), ??? (shadowed guy in chair), Controller,
<<<

In page 9 panel 2, you can see them better. I also think that it's Piledriver. What does Bulldozer look without his helmet? The third one could be Thunderball, next to Dr. Demonicus. Wrecker could then be one of the characters in shadows in page 7.


Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Then there's another bald guy with goggles on page 19.
<<<

Jonas Harrow? 

There is also a man behind the Hood in page 7. He is shown left from Mr. Hyde in page 8 panel 2. Dark mask. 

Who is the man in purple mask and brown hair next to Bushwacker in page 12, panel 1? 

Edit: By the way, I'd like to point out that half of the U-Foes were depowered in Planet Without A Hulk arc in SHE-HULK. I won't even think what it means to the chronology.

			*	*	*

Jan 03, 2008 8:56 pm 
By Carl Creed

Since Bendis has a lifetime subscription to my boycott list I did not read this issue but it sounds like over half of these villains dont fit here. Another fine job of editing and storytelling. Its yet another example of the great job Joe Q is doing at Marvel.

			*	*	*

Jan 03, 2008 10:51 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Watch it, Carl. We all have a goal here -- establishing Marvel character chronologies. Discussions of editorial intent and performance are great if there's a point to determining issues such as canonicity, timelines, etc. That all contributes to the end goal. 

Sure, we won't blame you if the occasional frustration is vented. However, your comment here (closely following a message in another thread) actually does nothing to advance the discussion. We have low tolerances for pointless gripefests here.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Jan 04, 2008 12:51 am 
By Carl Creed

I do understand what the goal here on this page is and its great that many here take the time to find ways to explain the whos and whys. I have seen others here express their frustrations in trying to dissect Bendis' numerous continuity errors. What I cannot figure out though is why even acknowledge his work at all? Why buy his books and encourage him even more? It really isnt logical. As a consumer we are supposed to be entertained with a enjoyable story. I admit that I once read some of his work on a monthly basis. It got to the point where it was no longer enjoyable and I dropped all of the books written by him and others with similar agendas(Ellis, Hudlin, Reed, ect). I realize that Joe Q has this "good story over continuity" philosophy but is it really that difficult to write a good story that is in continuity? It seems to me that most of the people who post on this site are far more qualified to edit and write than those who get paid to do it.

			*	*	*

Jan 04, 2008 9:34 pm 
By jephyork
Director

>>>
What I cannot figure out though is why even acknowledge his work at all? Why buy his books and encourage him even more? It really isnt logical.
<<<

Carl, please, enough. We've had this discussion with you before. 

If you want to complain about comics you don't like, there's a million other message boards on the internet. If you want to constructively help make all of Marvel's books fit into a chronological order, then this is the place for you. 

Yes, we vent and moan a little bit *while we're working* -- but I have yet to see you contribute ANYTHING to this forum, other than singlemindedly griping about Brian Bendis. It's not constructive, it's not helpful, and it actively takes up bandwidth. 

Why are you even here, if you don't want to talk about chronologies? 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Jan 06, 2008 9:06 am 
By jannepie

Could that be Scarecrow in page 7 panel 1, between Tigershark and the Hood? 

And about the chronologies, this obviously takes place after the recent SUB-MARINER series, since Nitro appears in page 6 panel 6. I realized that the U-Foes might have gotten their powers back after being depowered in SHE-HULK. She-Hulk sued Iron Man, claiming that superhumans have rights to their powers, but we haven't seen yet what happened with the case. Or, they are Earth-A doubles (see SHE-HULK vol. 2 #21). 

			*	*	*

Jan 06, 2008 11:07 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

janniepie wrote: 
>>>
And about the chronologies, this obviously takes place after the recent SUB-MARINER series, since Nitro appears in page 6 panel 6. 
<<<

What was it that caused me to totally overlook Nitro here? A subconscious command of some sort? Now that I see him, I can understand why. 

The destruction of Atlantis occurs after World War Hulk, which in turn should occur after the supposed first mission of the Mighty Avengers, which crosses over with this New Avengers arc. Thus the chronology is... 

NEW AVENGERS #32-37 
WORLD WAR HULK 
SUB-MARINER #1-6 

Nitro -- the real Nitro -- shouldn't be in A4 35. He should be incarcerated in Atlantis. 

I wonder if some of the villains shown in A4 35 are Skrulls and/or Earth-A counterparts. Mr. Creel has stated that some of the villains here can't possibly be here given their histories. Skrulls and Earth-A would explain things. Maybe this will be addressed in Secret Invasion. 

Arranging chronologies sure has become challenging these days. You can't assume that people are who they appear to be. I'm sure that Secret Invasion will force wholesale changes in the Calendar. (Bear that in mind when you see the Calendar update, coming soon.)

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Jan 07, 2008 2:20 pm 
By jannepie

It's very possible that some of these are Skrulls. NEW AVENGERS: MOST WANTED FILES mentioned that several of the imprisoned villains were supposed to be dead. 

And let's hope that there's a Handbook of some sort coming out with Secret Invasion. That's how these have been resolved recently.

			*	*	*

Jan 08, 2008 8:39 pm 
By Mikhail

Based on Daredevil's book, that's pretty certainly Alan Fagan and not Larry Cranston. 

Can anyone ID the guy in the black leather bondage mask with a conch shell on his chest next to Demonicus? It seems way to specific to not be someone.

			*	*	*

Jan 09, 2008 9:37 pm 
By SeanCurtin

Bondage mask + conch shell = Foolkiller III.

			*	*	*

Feb 04, 2008 10:44 am 
By JD

By the way, there's a nice scorecard in New Avengers Annual #2 if some villains still remain unidentified (are there ?).

			*	*	*

Feb 04, 2008 10:20 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I think there are still unidentified villains whose identity we may never know. BTW, the scorecard doesn't include all the villains shown in previous issues of A4 (e.g. Tiger Shark, Mandrill -- both of whom end up in PWJ2), and it doesn't even include all the villains shown in NA@ 2. For example, Shockwave is in the story but doesn't appear on the scorecard. Good news: Nitro doesn't appear on the scorecard! 

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 05, 2008 1:15 pm 
By loki

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
In the latest installment of "Identify the Super-Villain Horde," we have NEW AVENGERS #35.

On page 7, panel 1, clockwise around table, I see (w/help from panels on page 8):
Mentallo, Crusader, Chemistro III, Jigsaw, Griffin, Vanisher, Cutthroat, Tiger Shark, ??? (woman in purple w/gray-blue diamonds down front), ???, Hood, Mr. Hyde, Mr. Fear IV or V, Purple Man, Grey Gargoyle, Answer, Blackout II, ??? (guy in hooded jacket), ??? (guy w/blue face, gray jacket, and yellow front), Dr. Demonicus, Gronk? (a large yellowish guy), one of the Blood Brothers, Machete?

In the outer ring, going clockwise starting at upper right, I see:
Rampage?, Constrictor, Mandrill, Crossfire, ??? (guy in blue and red), ??? (bluish silver guy), ??? (red guy), ???, Vector, ???, ??? (guy in purple Titania-type mask), ??? (back of head only), ??? (brown-haired guy), ??? (shadowed guy in chair), Controller, ??? (another seated guy), Armadillo, ??? (guy with blue cowl and gray coat)

Is there anyone who shows up on another page who we don't see here?
<<<

It'd help to see a scan of the images, but the one tentatively identified as Rampage might be one of the Recession Raiders, who wore the same costume, given that Rampage has dropped his costume identity and is working with Punisher these days. Even if he felt the urge to wear the costume again, his new associate would likely frown on Clarke associating with this bunch and express his displeasure in a somewhat terminal manner.

			*	*	*

Thread 3

Subject: Spider-Man: Swing Shift

Feb 07, 2008 1:19 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Spider-Man: Swing Shift Director's Cut is basically a reprint of Free Comic Book Day 2007. So I would think that in Spider-Man's chronology, we'd see something like: 

FCBD 2007

But Swing Shift removes dialogue seen in FCBD 2007 with 'corrected' dialogue, the way it was originally written, to fit into the current continuity. Now, I don't have a copy of FCBD 2007 to compare, but the editor's page in the back makes it sound like there's only new dialogue and not any new pages of art.(I could be wrong) 

As I understand it, we list the original comic and not the reprint. If there's a Special Edition, or a TPB with new pages, we splice that into the comic in the affected chronologies.(like FF@ 1 & FF: SE) But in this case, there's no new pages to add, there's replaced dialogue. So... what? Would we list the original? Or the corrected version? Or both with a ~ ?

-edit-

Oops! I edited out an unfortunate typo. Hope nobody caught that one!  

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 07, 2008 9:29 am 
By ADMINISTRATOR

If we reach the conclusion that Marvel is attempting to say that Free Comic Book Day 2007 is not canon, and Director's Cut is the "true" version of events, then we would only list Director's Cut. Marvel's determination that a book isn't canon is one of the two general factors that can eliminate a book from the listings here.


watching: america's next super model

			*	*	*

Feb 07, 2008 4:25 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Here's the important bits from the editor's page: 

Stephen Wacker wrote:
>>>
As we were getting the issue ready for FCBD last year, my boss pointed out to me that there were several bits of dialogue that gave away the ending of the story going on in Amazing Spider-Man just previous to ours. So Dilligent Dan came up with some new lines of dialogue with the promise that we'd replace them with the original if this story was ever collected. 
<<<

To me, that means the Director's cut is the 'true' version of events.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 07, 2008 10:34 pm 
By TheDeuce

i'd have to agree with Fury on this one. it seems that the FCBD version was more of an edited version of the events and not the story as it "really" happened. the director's cut just being the unedited version.

			*	*	*

Feb 08, 2008 8:36 am 
By cweed4

So, SM:SS then?

			*	*	*

Feb 08, 2008 10:21 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Or is it ASM:SS 1?

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 09, 2008 12:43 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

The cover says the Amazing Spider-Man Swing Shift, but the indicia says Spider-Man: Swing Shift Director's Cut. The cover has a #1, but the indicia has no number.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 09, 2008 8:32 am 
By Somebody
Director

For once, I'd go unreservedly with the incidia and say SM:SSDC then. I hate sticking superfluous "1"s on one-shots.

			*	*	*

Thread 4

Subject: Thor Annual #9

Feb 09, 2008 3:41 pm 
By Mikhail

The current placement of Thor Annual #9 is as shown below: 

T 312
T 313
T@ 9
T 314

However, Loki appears in that annual still manacled to his wife Sigyn, as decreed by Odin in #301. Loki successfully petitioned Odin for freedom in #307, meaning the annual must take place prior to that issue. Balder would probably not be out frollicking on the high seas so soon after Nana died in #306/2 so, assuming the back-up story occurred roughly alongside the main story, I'd suggest putting the annual either immediately before or after #304, after Thor's return to Earth in #302, but before Balder's tragedy in #305/2-306/2. So either: 

T 303
H2 255
M/GN 30
H@ 11
FF 225
T@ 9
T 304
T 305
T 306

or 

T 303
H2 255
M/GN 30
H@ 11
FF 225
T 304
T@ 9
T 305
T 306

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Thread 5

Subject: WBN 37 correction

Feb 16, 2008 12:18 am 
By Enda80

The Doctor Glitternight, Moon Knight, and Hangman in this issue of WBN were actually only images created by Richard Matheson....er by Emeric Belasco...oh wait, Belaric Marcosa. (Doug Moench homages Hell House in this storyline. He also has also homaged Hammer, William Lusting and Maniac, and others in his writings). 

HANGMAN/HARLAN KRUEGER
WBN 11
WBN 12
WBN 25
WBN 26
S-W 4
S-W 5
S-W 50
BIZADV 31/3

			*	*	*

Feb 16, 2008 12:57 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

You say that both Moon Knight & Hangman don't appear in this issue, yet you only suggest removing it from Hangman's chronology. Why not Moon Knight?  

You also point out that Dr. Glitternight doesn't appear here, yet as far as I can tell he doesn't have a chronology listing here. Would you care to provide one?  

Also, you list Harlan Krueger as the Hangman's real name. Was issue was this revealed in?  

Please & Thanks! 

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 16, 2008 6:41 am 
By Enda80

Sorry, I just posted the Hangman's chronology because his was easier to copy and paste than Moon Knight.

The name "Harlan Krueger" appears as the true identity of the Hangman as early as the original Official Handbook in 1983. I don't have access to the Hangman's actual appearances in Spider-Woman or Werewolf by night (only the "Hell House" knock-off issue) so I don't know if it was established in either of those places. 

Can anyone determine if the name "Harlan Krueger" was just added by the writers of the original official Handbook? I suspected the name "Harlan Krueger" was a sort of tongue-in-cheek-in-joke the writers of the official Handbook came up with (in the story in which he died, the Hangman went around slaying the makers of slasher movies, so "Let us give him the same last name as Freddy Krueger" seemed the joke.) The Official Handbook was full of such added information. However, the Hangman's first handbook entry came out one year before A Nightmare on Elm Street came out in 1984. So it could not have been a reference to NOES; however in the earlier Last House on the Left, also directed by Wes Craven there was a criminal named Krug. So the name could have been an homage to that on the part of the Official Handbook writers, but again, I don't know if the name "Harlan Krueger" was ever used in an actual story.

			*	*	*

Feb 16, 2008 6:47 am 
By Enda80

MOON KNIGHT/MARC SPECTOR/"STEVEN GRANT"/"JAKE LOCKLEY" 
...............................................................
MK 11-FB
MK3 37-FB
MK 1-FB
{WBN 32}
WBN 33
**WBN 37** remove-only an illusion 
M/SPT 28
M/SPT 29
DEF 47
DEF 48

			*	*	*

Feb 16, 2008 7:29 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Thanks for the clarifications, Enda!

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 6

Subject: W3 62-FB

Feb 16, 2008 10:49 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Wolverine v3 #62 has a FlashBack with Logan & Mystique in Mexico, 1921. 

pg1-pg3-FB
Logan, in a Mexico prison, is awoken, blindfolded, and taken outside to be executed. He's placed next to a blindfolded Mystique, they start to chat, and the firing squad does it's job. 
pg17-pg18-FB
Since the firing squad didn't kill him, Logan has killed the firing squad. He & Raven then head off for the nearest bar. 

References: 
This is the first time Logan meets Raven. Oh, and it's 1921. 

Some placement suggestions: 

MYSTIQUE/RAVEN DARKHOLME/"MALLORY BRICKMAN"/"B. BYRON BIGGS"/"RONNIE LAKE"/"DALE FYFE" 
*W3 62 (1-3)-FB
*W3 62 (17-18)-FB
UX 428
XMF 4
...

WOLVERINE/LOGAN/JAMES HOWLETT 
...
W: O 17 (5-8)-FB 
W3 57-FB (04/22/1915) 
W3 58-FB
W3 59-FB
W3 60-FB
*W3 62 (1-3)-FB (1921)
*W3 62 (17-18)-FB
W2 113-FB
W2 126 (8)-FB 
W: O @1-FB (1932) 
...

There are other FlashBacks that immediately precede the issue, hence the page/panel ranges.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 17, 2008 2:08 pm 
By wolframbane

This placement works quite well as the first meeting of Logan and Raven. It happens well before X-Men True Friends #2, where Logan and Mystique are together in 1936 and appear to already know one another.

			*	*	*

Thread 7

Subject: New Avengers #38 (SPOILERS)

Feb 13, 2008 7:53 pm 
By Mikhail

Well, it had to happen, and it had to happen badly: BND/OMD are referenced in New Avengers.

The majority of the issue is Luke and Jessica, but a small portion with the rest of the team shows Spider-Man back in his red-and-blues. It also seemed to be Bendis' intention to claim Spider-Man's identity is now secret from the Avengers at this point: Iron Fist set's them up with a new apartment floor headquarters, and specifically singles out Spidey as having a private room and exit. Spidey also keeps his mask on and is never addressed as "Peter".

So, from this we have to either read a gap into BND (after the red-and-blues come back but before the spell), or place the entire BND story in-between the NA@ and NA #38. Either way, Doctor Strange's involvement in BND makes this --> {brickwall}  an understatement.

			*	*	*

Feb 14, 2008 12:27 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Mikhail wrote:
>>>
place the entire BND story in-between the NA@ and NA #38.
<<<

That one, for the most part. Just going off of Spider-Man, this is obviously the intended reading order. One issue he's in the black suit, the next issue he's not. That's a pretty straight-forward placement clue regarding OMD. There's even a 'later...' caption on pg19 of A4 38, allowing the book to 'catch up' as it were. 

As for Strange, I'm not seeing the problem. He leaves the team in A@2 2, Spider-Man has to demand to be 'let' in his house in OMD, and he's isolated himself as of A4 38 (19-22). 

As for Spider-Man, we know that he's been active during the 100 days between ASM 545 (1-22) and ASM 546, just not spotted often, so I dont see any problem placing New Avengers appearances between ASM 545 pgs 22 & 23, like so: 

A@2 2
ASM 543
ASM 544
FNSM 24
SENSM 41
ASM 545 (1-22)
A4 38
ASM 545 (23- )
ASM 546
ASM 547


-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 14, 2008 3:24 am 
By Somebody
Director

You forget the preview for the Wells/Bachalo BND arc, with SM, Strange & Wolverine in a "boarded-up" Sanctum. Really, the problem's with the Annual, and I think that might be schedule-related (the way certain pages of Cap/Falcon #8 plain didn't make sense in retrospect since they were covering for the reveals in Avengers #503 which hadn't come out yet - when the Annual was being written/drawn, it probably wasn't clear if ASM545 would make it out before or after) rather than Bendis-related for once.

[And I remain unconvinced those "100 days" are real, rather than a mindwipe-flavoured "overwrite" of BiB/OMD]

			*	*	*

Feb 14, 2008 3:44 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Oh, I'm not forgetting the preview, it's just that, that issue hasn't been released yet and we don't know the context of those images. We don't know what they're saying, for example. It's possible it could be a mess when the issue comes out, and it's something to keep an eye out for, but we'll see when it happens.

-Daron Jensen

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Feb 14, 2008 4:22 am 
By JD

Another note : A4 #38 states that the New Avengers have defeated the Hood's army "twice in one night", which would mean that A4 #37 happens all in one day (with no gap to insert WWH & co), and that the New Avengers ARE coming straight from the first fight in A@2 #2 (maybe they'll explain Echo's mystery injury in A4 #39 ?).

I'd personally incline towards disregarding it, though.

			*	*	*

Feb 14, 2008 4:33 am 
By Somebody
Director

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
Oh, I'm not forgetting the preview, it's just that, that issue hasn't been released yet and we don't know the context of those images. We don't know what they're saying, for example. It's possible it could be a mess when the issue comes out, and it's something to keep an eye out for, but we'll see when it happens.
<<<

The Sanctum was levelled in NA@ #2 and Strange went off into isolation (leaving even Wong & Night Nurse behind) to depower, then repower himself.

Unless Bendis has absolutely no plans to follow up on this, at all, I'm not seeing a dialogue patch that can fix this.

			*	*	*

Feb 14, 2008 5:16 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

JD wrote:
>>>
I'd personally incline towards disregarding it, though.
<<<

Yeah, same here. 


Somebody wrote:
>>>
The Sanctum was levelled in NA@ #2 
<<<

Was that the intention? If so, the art wasn't clear on that bit. There's a hole in the ceiling, sure, but the walls are still standing at the end of Annual 2, and they're all on an upper level of the house, so the infrastructure is still pretty good. I'd say the house has seen better days, but if it was supposed to be decimated, it didn't come across. Nothing a few boards in the windows wouldn't fix.  


Somebody wrote:
>>>
Strange went off into isolation (leaving even Wong & Night Nurse behind) to depower, then repower himself.
<<<

Right. 


Somebody wrote:
>>>
Unless Bendis has absolutely no plans to follow up on this, at all, I'm not seeing a dialogue patch that can fix this.
<<<

We'll find out in a month, I guess.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 17, 2008 5:24 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

I'm still inclined to place NA@ 2 in the middle of One More Day with an unexplained costume change on Spidey's part -- after the consultation with Strange and before the deal with Mephisto is struck. Unless it is shown that Strange returns to a fixed-up Sanctum. As has been said, we'll see.

Given that, I'm seeing the first eighteen pages of A4 38 as happening the morning after NA@ 2 and figure the deal with Mephisto in ASM 545 occurs later that day. Then after memories of Spidey's identity are wiped, we have the last four pages of A4 38, perhaps a couple of days later.

A few observations about A4 38...

It must occur before CM6 2-3 because Carol knows about the Skrull situation in the current Captain Marvel story. CM6 2-3 in turn must occur before ASM 546, since there is an editorial by JJJ in that story. JJJ's days at the Bugle are done starting in ASM 546.

We've established that Strange's chronology places NA@ 2 sometime after World War Hulk. That means, of course, that A4 38 takes place after WWH. When Jessica was telling Cage how safe Stark Tower is for the baby, I'm surprised Cage didn't respond, "You mean that building that was totally $#%^& destroyed in the battle with the Hulk?!?"

Also, A4 38 must occur after the Leader's defeat in the current story in Warbound.

Finally, if A4 38 occurs just after One More Day but long before Brand New Day, we have Spidey living at the "Avengers Apartment" before he ends up in May's house at the end of ASM 545. Just where was May staying while her house was being rebuilt? Or did it reappear as if "by magic" following the Mephisto deal? More questions to be answered in future flashbacks in ASM, I suppose.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 17, 2008 5:45 pm 
By Somebody
Director

I don't think there's any point in placing ASM relative to A4 until the NA guest-star there. Until then, there simply isn't the info to work with.

			*	*	*

Feb 17, 2008 8:30 pm 
By Mikhail

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Finally, if A4 38 occurs just after One More Day but long before Brand New Day, we have Spidey living at the "Avengers Apartment" before he ends up in May's house at the end of ASM 545. Just where was May staying while her house was being rebuilt? Or did it reappear as if "by magic" following the Mephisto deal? More questions to be answered in future flashbacks in ASM, I suppose.
<<<

Spider-Man isn't really "living" at the Apartment, I don't believe. He just has his own room, like visiting Avengers at the old mansion.

I don't think the matter of May's house will be addressed. There will just be a memory block on anyone who tries to think about where May was living for the last few months. It's the same explanation for why no one can remember who Spider-Man was under the mask -- they just can't think about it even if they try. I suspect that's also why Peter himself isn't wondering why no one knows who he is anymore. Not only can no one remember him unmasking, no one, not ever Peter, can think about the unmasking or its ramifications (kinda like what Quesada is preaching to us in the real world).

			*	*	*

Thread 8

Subject: M/CP2 6/3

Feb 16, 2008 10:10 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Marvel Comics Presents v2 #6, third story is a WWII Captain America story. 

pg1
Cap jumps out of a plane filled with American troops. 
pg2-pg7-FB
Some guy is picked on because he volunteered for service but was declared 4F. 
pg8
Captain America fights some Nazis alongside American troops. 

References: 
The FlashBack is labeled as December, 1941, and a newspaper is seen with the headline 'Germany Declares War'.(this is probably on December 12, the day after Germany declared war) 

The 'now' portion, pg1 & pg8, is labeled as June, 1944, France. I'm sure this is intended to be D-Day... but Cap has his triangular shield here.  Cap has already been shown on D-Day with his circular shield in CA 109-FB and ORDER2 7-FB... because he stopped using it in 1941. I really don't like using 'art error' in explaining placements, so I'll ignore 'June 1944' and suggest this be placed around Cap's Black Panther v4 WWII appearances, keeping his erroneous triangular shield appearances together. Like so:

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN ROGERS
...
CA 219-FB (1944)
CLAN 8-FB (1944)
NA: AAFES
BP4 21-FB
BP4 1-FB (1944)
*M/CP2 6/3
CA@ 9/2-FB (04/44)
CA: 65AS 1 (04/44)
M/U 1-FB
M/U 1
M/U 2 (05/44) 
M/U 3
CA 109 (1-6:2)-FB (06/06/44)
ORDER2 7-FB
TOS 69/2 (1-9)
...

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 17, 2008 11:42 pm 
By Carl Creed

Thanks, I was wondering about that too. The placement fits nicely.

			*	*	*

Feb 19, 2008 1:20 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Thanks Carl! 

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 9

Subject: Fiorello LaGuardia

Feb 20, 2008 5:21 am 
By Enda80

He was in that Giant Size Spider-Man issue with Doc Savage. Did he also appear in some Human Torch and/or Namor stories?

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 5:25 am 
By Enda80

LAGUARDIA, FIORELLO, HENRY 
**GSS-M 3-FB
SAGASM 4 (1 - 3:2)
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7/3 (1 - 6:7)
SAGASM 4 (3:3 - 3:4)
MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 7/3 (6:8 - 10:?)

The added story was a fb involving Doc Savage.

			*	*	*

Thread 10

Subject: She-Hulk #25

Feb 20, 2008 9:17 pm 
By zeus

so

uhm...

about that last back-up story, with Juggernaut...

we're not counting that, right?

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 9:21 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Well, since the entire run of Sensational She-Hulk is included, I don't see why not 

			*	*	*

Feb 21, 2008 6:16 pm 
By jephyork
Director

Details pweez?

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Feb 22, 2008 10:23 pm 
By Somebody
Director

She-Hulk comes along and raids the MU Marvel offices, complaining loudly about how Slott kept having her go on about how she would never sleep with Juggernaut. Dr Juggernomics comes along and makes it better, while a message from a Mr Marko complaining about a recent* backup gets through to them.

*Chronologically, that can't be this story, since this is while She-Hulk & Juggy are making out 

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 12:33 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

The problem with that is, She-Hulk spends several issues declaring she'd NEVER EVER sleep with Marko, and an alternate She-Hulk shows up, proving that she didn't. Now we have She-Hulk saying that of COURSE she'd sleep with Marko. 

Is it just me, or does that not work? Unless the back-up is a joke,(meaning non-canon) or, the She-Hulk in the back-up is from Earth-A. Or a Skrull.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 1:07 am 
By jephyork
Director

So this is PAD fighting with Slott, then?

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 2:15 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Well... yeah. Pretty much.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 10:53 am 
By lkseitz

IIRC, somewhere on #25's letter page, it explicitly states that final bit with She-Hulk, the Marvel offices, and Juggernaut, is a parody. Also, in his blog, PAD states that Slott himself was supposed to write a four-page piece for the issue, but he wasn't able to. (It's down in the comments, so search for "Dan".) Presumably this is not a swipe at Slott, but just a bit of fun.

I wondered what the MCP would make of this story, but didn't take the time to ask.

Lee K. Seitz 
Slowly adding insignificant characters to the MCP

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 11:25 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Here's my take on how this story might be canonical:

SHE-HULK v4 #25/3
One day. I theorize that the She-Hulk and Juggernaut characters shown here are both from Earth-A and that this story occurs before S-H4 21 (1-17). The Mr. Marko who is on the phone may not be Juggernaut and the four-page parody that is cited may not be this story. Earth-A She-Hulk shows up at Marvel offices, upset at the way She-Hulk is portrayed in comics. Earth-A Juggernaut (who may have learned of her affair with the real Juggernaut) shows up and stops her violent attack. They embrace and go off together.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm 
By Somebody
Director

lkseitz wrote:
>>>
IIRC, somewhere on #25's letter page, it explicitly states that final bit with She-Hulk, the Marvel offices, and Juggernaut, is a parody.
<<<

Actually, it doesn't. Here's what it says:


Tom Brennan (She-Hulk assistant editor) on the SH2 25 letters page wrote:
>>>
Although we've no long-term plans for Juggernaut's return, I hope you appreciated the closer between Jen and Cain over in the Marvel Legal offices. They're just the cutest couple, huh?
<<<

And that's ALL it says about it.

And that's Jen's post-22 costume.

			*	*	*

Feb 24, 2008 10:09 am 
By lkseitz

My mistake. It was the bit in the final panel I was thinking about. ("A Mr. Marko is on the phone. He says he has a bone to pick about how he was portrayed in a parody four-pager we just published.")

			*	*	*

Thread 11

Subject: MJ typo for ASMU 2/2

Feb 26, 2008 10:44 am 
By cweed4

The listing for Mary Jane Watson-Parker's appearance in ASMU 2/2 is erroneously listed as ASMU 2/3. Has to be a typo since there is not a third story in that issue of ASMU.

			*	*	*

Feb 26, 2008 7:33 pm 
By SeanCurtin

Spider-Man Unlimited volume 2 was based on the 1990s animated series of the same name. The second in-continuity Spider-Man anthology series ought to be listed as ASMU3 (or just SMU3, really).

			*	*	*

Thread 12

Subject: Nova Annual #1

Feb 27, 2008 11:05 pm 
By Carl Creed

The telling of Nova's origin in this issue happened during a dream sequence in Nova's mind and does not change anything from Nova Vol 1 #1. The Phalanx being so fresh in Nova's mind was what made Nova think he fought them instead of Zorr in his first act of duty as a Nova Centurion. I thought this was a clever way of presenting the origin without destroying any continuity. What does everyone else think?

			*	*	*

Feb 28, 2008 12:52 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

You're right, in that dreams aren't proper FlashBacks. 

I agree that it was a very clever way to present Nova's past and future, reflecting his present. It's a very good Annual from a very good series. More people should be buying Nova!

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 13

Subject: Cable & Deadpool 50!

Feb 23, 2008 3:02 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Helluva issue!  

This is sometime after the current Mighty Avengers arc, given the symbiotes, and obviously after OMD, given Spider-Man's outfit... and Deadpool's comments. 

This is most likely before the upcoming New Avengers Savage Land issues, given last issue's guest-star. 

Also, this really should go before the curent Wolverine: Origins arc, and by extension the previous Wolverine: Origins arc, given where Deadpool ends up here, and where he is there. Sigh...

Rest in Peace, Cable/Deadpool! I miss you already. 

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 1:57 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
This is sometime after the current Mighty Avengers arc, given the symbiotes, and obviously after OMD, given Spider-Man's outfit... and Deadpool's comments.
<<<

Thought - with Iron Man notably the only MAv absentee, could this be during current events in his book (where he's suspended from SHIELD and unable to use his current armour)? Where's that placed relative to MAv right now?


Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
Helluva issue!  

Rest in Peace, Cable/Deadpool! I miss you already. 
<<<

Yeah 

I think Fabian kinda lost heart after Cable was pulled out of the book - the last two issues, where he stepped back to script-only, were the strongest since #42.

Plus, this post.

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 7:07 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Thanks for that link, Somebody. And I agree, these last two issues were awesome! And I think it's great that what ended up as a Deadpool team-up book, ended with a Cable/Deadpool team-up of sorts.  

So even though this issue is most likely after Messiah CompleX, given it's relation to other books, can I assume that Cable's BTS From the Future is pre-Messiah CompleX? He went somewhere when he 'died', and then came back, could this go between 'went somewhere' & 'came back' from his perspective?

As for Iron Man, his book his post-WWH, and there's a jump in time after that, so yeah. I can see that.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 7:38 pm 
By somebody
Director

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
So even though this issue is most likely after Messiah CompleX, given it's relation to other books, can I assume that Cable's BTS From the Future is pre-Messiah CompleX? He went somewhere when he 'died', and then came back, could this go between 'went somewhere' & 'came back' from his perspective?
<<<

I've been wondering about this, and two things:
1) Cable's explicitly stated in the run of Cable/DP that he "can't timeslide" (any more). And the fact that the Cable #1 preview involves him spending five months on a boat going from Scotland to the US (FIVE MONTHS?!) straight after MCX. However he gets into the timestream in DLS' Cable book, he presumably acquires in Cable #1.
2) I'm still at a complete loss as to how Cable survived at all - Fabian all-but-wrote a death, closing off all his escape options and giving Cable an "I'm not going to survive this"-type narration (where the X200 version was notably more ambiguous). I can only presume someone else scooped him up BTS.

In other words, "you may as well stick it between C&DP 42 & X205, but only in a 'for lack of an alternative' way" - in the unlikely event that a placement suggests itself within the run of Cable's solo book (and you could take DP's fourth-wall breaking "little people" yellow box as suggesting that it should), that would be preferable.

			*	*	*

Feb 23, 2008 7:51 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Unless...

Cable really DID die in X-Men 200 and everything happening now is from Cable's time-travelling past!  

No, I'm not really suggesting that. 


Somebody wrote:
>>>
In other words, "you may as well stick it between C&DP 42 & X205, but only in a 'for lack of an alternative' way" - in the unlikely event that a placement suggests itself within the run of Cable's solo book (and you could take DP's fourth-wall breaking "little people" yellow box as suggesting that it should), that would be preferable.
<<<

Sounds good.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 24, 2008 7:08 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
This is sometime after the current Mighty Avengers arc, given the symbiotes, and obviously after OMD, given Spider-Man's outfit... and Deadpool's comments. This is most likely before the upcoming New Avengers Savage Land issues, given last issue's guest-star. Also, this really should go before the curent Wolverine: Origins arc, and by extension the previous Wolverine: Origins arc, given where Deadpool ends up here, and where he is there. Sigh...
<<<

There really must be a huge gap of more than just a "couple of days" between issues #48 and #49 of Cable/Deadpool -- large enough for Reed and Sue to return to the FF, WWH to happen, Silent War to happen, a bunch of Wolverine stuff to happen (maybe...his chronology's really squirrelly), and OMD. Not a big problem, fortunately.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 27, 2008 10:47 pm 
By Carl Creel

Does anyone know what Fabian is going to write next? I wish they gave the guy more.

			*	*	*

Feb 28, 2008 12:12 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

He's been writing one of the Superman books over at DC, and I'm pretty sure he's done some stuff for Moonstone. 

Story time!

Back when Fabian was writing for the X-Books, I was under the impression he(and Lodbell) was the reason plots would start and never finish. Some years later when his Gambit series started up, he was actively finishing some of those old plots. Between his X-Books time and his Gambit time, I had learned more of how the writer/editor relationship works and more of the nature of publishing ongoing stories. I had gone back and read some interviews, done some research, grew older and grew up a little, and concluded that Scott & Fabian, and really anyone, weren't to blame for why I was unhappy at the time. 

...and, I felt like an ass. Even though I never voiced those feelings in any kind of a public forum, I still felt terrible for blaming a guy who wasn't responsible, and who was then tying up the very things that had upset me as a fan. Call it a life lesson. 

By the time Gambit started, I was a fairly regular letter writer to Marvel. One of my letters that got published was an apology to Fabian, even though there was no way he could have ever known that I ever held any ill will towards him. It's in issue 8, look it up. Yes, I'm THAT Daron Jensen. 

So yeah, I think Fabian is great. I loved his run on Cable/Deadpool, and really all of his Marvel stuff.(On re-reading his X-Books run, I enjoy that too) I'd love to see more from him at Marvel too, but in the meantime, I'll be picking up his other publishers stuff in trade.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 28, 2008 12:53 am 
By JD

Just for info : Nicieza will be co-writing the backup stories in Busiek & Bagley's year-long weekly miniseries from DC, Trinity.

			*	*	*

Feb 28, 2008 12:59 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

There goes more of my money.  

Thanks for the heads up, JD!

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 14

Subject: Coming from Marvel in May

Feb 19, 2008 4:47 pm 
By JD

Full solicitations at Newsarama, as usual : http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May0 ... tions.html

Highlights for this month (and there's a lot of them this month) :

NEW SERIES

- GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY #1, by Abnett, Lanning & Pelletier. Teambook launching from ANNIHILATION:CONQUEST, starring Starlord, Drax, Quasar, Warlock, Rocket Raccoon and that green chick Nova slept with.

- THE INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #1, by Fraction & Larroca. Wait, since when can he support two titles ?

- CAPTAIN BRITAIN AND MI: 13 #1, by Cornell (WISDOM) & Kirk. Plus : a very good creative team. Minus : it's a Secret Invasion Tie-in on a fringe title whose trailer mini sold abysmally (just like HEROES FOR HIRE, then. Will it last any longer ?). Well, at least they'll have fun with the Skrull Beatles...


NEW MINISERIES

- SECRET INVASION: FANTASTIC FOUR #1 (of 3), by Aguirre-Sacasa & Kitson. The regular series should be safe from crossovers, then.

- AVENGERS/INVADERS #1 (of 12), by Ross, Krueger & Sadowski. The WW2-era Invaders are thrown into the (more or less) current statu quo through time travel.

- ANGEL: REVELATIONS #1 (of 5), by Aguirre-Sacasa & Pollina. Angel's "never-before-told" origin, because you demanded it.

- IRON MAN: VIVA LAS VEGAS #1 (of 4), by movie director Favreau & Granov. Insert lateness jokes here. Anyway, that makes it 6 Iron Man issues shipping in May (3 ongoing & 3 minis), plus the ALL-NEW IRON MANUAL (the handbook's contribution). Overkill much ?

- GENEXT #1 (of 5), by Claremont & Scheberger. Hey, remember the poll for Claremont's new project back in early 2006 ? Well, after a lengthy delay due to Claremont's bad health, it's finally coming out. "What if the X-Men had aged in real time ?", basically.

- MARVEL 1985 #1 (of 6), by Millar & Edwards : Marvel villains invading the real world. Dubious canonicity.

- newuniversal: shockfront #1 (of 6), by Ellis & someone named Steve Kurth. Will the story actually make progress this time round ?

- AMERICAN DREAM #1 & 2 (of 5), by DeFalco & Nauck : MC2.

- SKY DOLL #1 (of 3) : the first book of the deal with French Publisher Soleil.


ONESHOTS 

- GIANT-SIZE INCREDIBLE HULK #1, by Stern & "To Be Disclosed" (+ a reprint of H@ 7). But also, KING SIZE HULK #1, written by Loeb and drawn by a few big-name artists (including Art Adams & Frank Cho), + reprints of H2 180 & A 83. After all, it would be a shame to have no mainstream Hulk comics the month the movie comes out, eh ? MARVEL SPOTLIGHT covers the Hulk Movie, by the way.

- THUNDERBOLTS: REASON IN MADNESS : And yet another Gage fill-in oneshot, this time focusing on Venom & Osborn.

- X-FACTOR: THE QUICK AND THE DEAD, by David & Raimondi (just like the regular book, then). Furthers the Quicksilver subplot.

- WOLVERINE: THE AMAZING IMMORTAL MAN AND OTHER BLOODY TALES, by Lapham & assorted artists : yet another random Wolverine oneshot.

- X-MEN ORIGIN: COLOSSUS, by Yost & Hairsine. Seriously, what's it with all the "finally revealed" (sic) origins of random X-Men members ?


NOTABLE ISSUES 

- Secret Invasion Tie-in Watch : SI #2, SI: FF #1, NEW AVENGERS #41, MIGHTY AVENGERS #13 & #14, MS. MARVEL #27, INCREDIBLE HERCULES #117, CAPTAIN BRITAIN & MI:13 #1... and FRANKLIN RICHARDS: NOT-SO-SECRET INVASION. No, seriously.

- Divided We Stand Tie-in Watch : DWS BOOK #2 (of 2), UNCANNY X-MEN #498, X-MEN: LEGACY #211 & #212, X-FACTOR #31, X-FORCE #4, YOUNG X-MEN #2, CABLE #3 & WOLVERINE #65.

- ULTIMATE X-MEN #94 is taken over by Heroes writer Aron Coleite. But where's Bryan Singer ? (It's been, what, 4 years since the original announcement ?)

- AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #558 varies the format by being a one-issue story (thus making the second Slott arc finish in June).

- Christos Gage seems to have completely taken over AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE with #13. THe guy deserves an ongoing book.

- AVENGERS CLASSIC ends with #12.

- Greg Rucka joins Brubaker & Lark for a 4-issue arc on DAREDEVIL, reuniting the whole old GOTHAM CENTRAL team.


GONE MISSING THIS MONTH : 
- THUNDERBOLTS (hence the one-shot)
- HULK (horribly delayed : #4 has been rescheduled into June)
- RUNAWAYS (sigh)
- CRIMINAL
- POWERS (#30 rescheduled into April)


NOTABLE COLLECTIONS 

- Omnibuses : Incredible Hulk v1, Invicible Iron Man v1, Daredevil By Bendis v1
- Marvel Masterworks : Mighty Thor v7
- Essentials : OHOTMU Master Edition v2, Rampaging Hulk v1 (reprinting the B&W magazines). Also, a new edition of X-Men v1 (couldn't they update v3 instead ?)

- X-MEN: KITTY PRYDE AND WOLVERINE PREMIERE HC

- IRON MAN: WAR MACHINE TPB, reprinting #280-291.

- A slew of "Hulk - WWH" TPBs : WORLD WAR HULK, INCREDIBLE HERC, FRONT LINE, GAMMA CORPS and X-MEN (which also includes all the odd crossover issues : A:TI, IAM, IM4 & GR)

- HULK VISIONARIES: JOHN BYRNE VOL. 1 TPB (the beginning of his 80s run, not the late-90s one)

- EXCALIBUR CLASSIC VOL. 5 TPB conpletes Claremont's run.

- PSI-FORCE CLASSIC VOL. 1 TPB is another brick towards reprinting the New Universe. Wait, 4 writers in 9 issues ? What happened ?

- For some reason, they're starting to reprint TPBs of Morrison's NEW X-MEN in three volumes.



So, what caught up your eye this time ?

			*	*	*

Feb 19, 2008 6:00 pm 
By Somebody
Director

JD wrote:
>>>
- X-FACTOR: THE QUICK AND THE DEAD, by David & Raimondi (just like the regular book, then). Furthers the Quicksilver subplot.
<<<

Completely at a loss as to why this isn't part of the ongoing - usually, you'd have at least the artist as a fill-in. They could afford to spend an issue of the ongoing on Quicksilver, you'd think.


JD wrote:
>>>
- ULTIMATE X-MEN #94 is taken over by Heroes writer Aron Coleite. But where's Bryan Singer ? (It's been, what, 4 years since the original announcement ?)
<<<

They gave up on Singer when they gave Kirkman the book "for real" with #75. What's late here is Teh Lobe taking over - Ultimatum was originally meant to start in UltX 94...


JD wrote:
>>>
So, what caught up your eye this time ?
<<<

You missed the big one:

MARVEL ADVENTURES THE AVENGERS #24
Written by JEFF PARKER

			*	*	*

Feb 19, 2008 7:24 pm 
By rhod

So is Captain Britain & MI 13 instead of Excalibur or in addition to?

"What no ten-dollar words? No witty repartee? Aren't you gonna do anything other than bleed?" - Victor Creed XF125

			*	*	*

Feb 19, 2008 9:08 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Instead of. They decided a third Excalibur series in four or so years wasn't a good idea in the end.

Interview here: http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/ ... i?id=13031

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 1:33 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

JD wrote:
>>>
- THE INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #1, by Fraction & Larroca. Wait, since when can he support two titles ?
<<<

I'm not sure if it will actually come to that...

I think it's a good move on Marvel's part to put out a new ongoing right when the movie hits theaters. In theory, if movie-goers are made aware of it, and if they like the movie & are interested in more, they can get in on the ground floor, with a Number One issue, and maybe stick around if their interest is kept up. Its been shown not to work hoping that new readers(not existing comic readers, mind you, but actual new readers) will jump in on issue 389 of whatever. A Number One however... maybe. But it depends. 

The non-comic reading public has to be made aware of it. Will the end of the movie have a blurb, in the theater, pointing people to the new series? If so, it will have to be before the end credits. If that's not the case, will the theaters be handing out fliers pointing the public to the new series? If so, good luck in getting uniform results in execution. OR, will the theaters be handing out actual free copies of the first issue, with the back cover being a giant ad for 1 888-COMICBOOK? That's probably their best bet in getting people to actually see the product and check out future issues, but again, good luck in getting uniform results. 

In any case, the Invincible Iron Man is designed for new comic readers. I'm hoping the results with this experiment are good. I'm hopeful there's actually a plan in place to inform people of this, and I hope that whatever that plan is, works. But we'll see. 

As far as two concurrent series, well, highlight the theory: 


Daron's Theory wrote:
>>>
If I remember right, the Knaufs are leaving Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. to work on a new Eternals series, and a replacement team hasn't been announced yet. Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. will undoubtedly have Secret Invasion tie-in issues, and if Secret Invasion ends largely the way I expect, Iron Man won't be the Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. by the end of it. By then the title will be redundant and cancelled, leaving only Invincible. The tail end of Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. would essentially be an Iron Man/Secret Invasion mini, just tacked on to the end of the latest ongoing. So yeah, for a while there would be two Iron Man series running concurrently, but that's just a side effect of trying to get new readers without the baggage of a company wide crossover, but still being able to tie into a company wide crossover. Oh, and Invincible would be set slightly in the future, past Secret Invasion. Maybe. And if all that's the case, and if it works, Iron Man will then be selling copies to the new readers, and to his already existing comic reading fanbase. Everyone wins!
<<<

But who knows, I've been wrong before.

Oh yeah, I'm really looking forward to Captain Britain & MI 13. Wisdom was great, and I loves me some Leonard Kirk. I'm all over this one.
 
-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 3:13 am 
By JLH

JD wrote:
>>>
But where's Bryan Singer ? (It's been, what, 4 years since the original announcement ?)
<<<

He's busy gazing longingly into his autographed picture of Richard Donner.


>>>
- AVENGERS CLASSIC ends with #12.
<<<

With a back-up written by Bob Burden of FLAMING CARROT. I guess Gumby made him a doorway through a book to the Marvel offices?


>>>
- HULK (horribly delayed : #4 has been rescheduled into June)
<<<

He's unable to write a single HEROES episode for 3 months, and still can't get caught up on his comic deadlines?

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 3:21 am 
By JD

Well, I also used to think DIRECTOR OF SHIELD would face quick cancellation after a last Secret Invasion tie-in storyline... But May's issue starts a new 4-issue story ; by my count, that leaves only three months before SI ends. It's doable, and it's be done before in Civil War (where IRON MAN only tied in to the end of the crossover), but I'm not so sure as to what is really Marvel's plan.

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 11:06 am 
By ShadZ

JD wrote:
>>>
- SKY DOLL #1 (of 3) : the first book of the deal with French Publisher Soleil.
<<<

This is all the rage in Europe; I'm interested in seeing it... and it's from the creators of W.i.t.c.h.!

ShadZ

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 12:00 pm 
By jephyork
Director

Plus, hey, giant robot nipple on the cover of #1...

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 4:55 pm 
By Starman

JD wrote:
>>>
AVENGERS CLASSIC ends with #12.
<<<

Did it really sell that bad? So Uncanny X-Men (Classic X-Men) and Amazing Spider-Man (Marvel Tales) can have long running reprint series, but not Avengers?


JD wrote:
>>>
Also, a new edition of X-Men v1 (couldn't they update v3 instead ?)
<<<

Agreed.

- Stefan

"Why so serious?"
- The Joker

"What, me worry?"
- Alfred E. Neuman

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 6:55 pm 
By SeanCurtin

Starman wrote:
>>>
So Uncanny X-Men (Classic X-Men) and Amazing Spider-Man (Marvel Tales) can have long running reprint series, but not Avengers?
<<<

It's a different market now; these days, nobody's going to pay to read Silver Age Avengers reprints one issue at a time when they could pick up an Essential or Masterworks. I'm sure that a Spider-Man or X-Men reprint book that was structured like Avengers Classic would get canceled after the same amount of time.

			*	*	*

Feb 20, 2008 7:16 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Plus, they were only doing Avengers Classic to defray the cost of remastering Avengers Masterworks v1, and there's apparently been a change of plan on when that material'll be needed...

			*	*	*

Feb 21, 2008 12:09 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

>>>
- Christos Gage seems to have completely taken over AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE with #13. THe guy deserves an ongoing book.
<<<


Not at the expense of having only one Dan Slott book per month. Get the guy back on She-Hulk, or make him the ONLY Spider-Man writer, (if he's only writing the Amazing Spidey book once every 4 months, then I see no reason for him to fall behind).


>>>
Did it really sell that bad? So Uncanny X-Men (Classic X-Men) and Amazing Spider-Man (Marvel Tales) can have long running reprint series, but not Avengers?
<<<

Hey, it made it longer than Conan Classic, (which only lasted 11 issues)!

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

Feb 21, 2008 6:18 pm 
By jephyork
Director

>>>
So, what caught up your eye this time ?
<<<

Marvel Spotlight: Hulk Movie and X-Men: the Complete Onslaught Epic volume 2... 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 15

Subject: Human Torch 6-8

Feb 11, 2008 2:16 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Human Torch 6
Winter, 1941

Appearances: 
Human Torch(Jim Hammond), Toro, Chief Wilson-BTS

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg20
While reading the paper, the Human Torch wonders where gangsters are getting all of their weapons and ammo, so he decides to go undercover and find out. After letting the police know what hes up to he commits some crimes and is eventually approached by the mob. Unfortunately Toro blows his cover, but the do find out that theres a mob run island producing ammunition. They make their way to it and blow it up. 

References: 
The Human Torch goes into the police station when hes preparing his plan to go undercover. Since Chief Wilson is his boss, hes the guy he would go to. Hes not mentioned in the story, but I think he merits a BTS here, anyway. 

Human Torch 6/2

Appearances: 
Human Torch(Jim Hammond), Toro

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg18
By putting an ad in the paper, Mr. Haskell recruits the most desperate men in town. He uses the dice of death to determine who will commits which crimes and off they go! That night the Torch & Toro happen across some of them knocking over a jewelry store, but the criminals would rather die instead of getting caught. After looking into the die they found, the Torch puts a phony ad into the paper to draw the criminals out. Theyre quickly found and defeated. 

References: 
The hand of Death is shown throwing the dice, so would this be an actual appearance of Death, or is it just representative? 

Human Torch 6/3

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg2
A gag strip featuring Swoopy the fearless. 

Human Torch 6/4

Appearances: 
Namor, the Sub-Mariner

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg20
Namors cruising around Hawaii when he discovers a bundist smuggling operation. After some running around he quickly takes care of it. 

References: 
Namors in Hawaii, pre-December 7. Therefore, pre-formation of the Invaders. 

Human Torch 6/5

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A gag strip featuring Tubby & Tack. 

Human Torch 7
Spring, 1942

Appearances: 
Human Torch(Jim Hammond), Toro

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg20
The Torch and Toro battle some Japanese soldiers based in an aircraft carrier disguised as a volcano. After destroying the base, the Japanese leader Agent X commits suicide. 

References: 
Oh yeah, definitely post-December 7. Therefore, post-formation of the Invaders. 

Human Torch 7/2

Appearances: 
Human Torch(Jim Hammond), Toro

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg18
The Torch and Toro are at a Navy yard on the lookout for sabotage when they come across some spies/saboteurs. After discovering where their headquarters is through interrogation, they avert the destruction of the Brooklyn Bridge and have their fellow spies arrested. 

Human Torch 7/3

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg2
A gag strip featuring Swoopy the fearless. 

Human Torch 7/4

Appearances: 
Namor, the Sub-Mariner, Betty Dean, Folma, Mara, Sarna, Jim Dean, Lloyd Dean

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg20
Betty Dean calls up Namor, her brothers were captured when the Japanese invaded Wake Island and she was hoping he could look into it. He gets an Atalntean fleet together and they attack Wake Island with the help of the US Navy. After freeing Bettys brothers and some other captured Americans, Namor and the US Navy work together in freeing Wake Island, and then onwards towards Guam. After the initial attack on Guam, Namor leaves the rest of it to the Americans. 

References: 
The Japanese attack on Wake Island is referenced in the past, months ago, which would place this in the gap between Invaders 16-FB & Invaders 16. Sub-Mariner Comics 5 takes place before the attack on Darwin, so before 19 February. This story works pretty well with the American attack on Wake Island,(24 February, led by the Enterprise in the real world!) placing this story on 23-24 February. Translated, after Sub-Mariner Comics 5/2 & before Invaders 16. As for the attack on Guam shown here, apparently Namor left too soon

Human Torch 8
Summer, 1942

Appearances: 
Human Torch(Jim Hammond), Toro, Namor, Hitler, Goebbels, Goering, Python, Prof. Horton

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg52
The Python is broken out of Alcatraz Prison under the orders of Hitler. The Human Torch, Toro, and Namor try to stop the escape but they fail. Once the Python is free and clear, he checks in with Hitler over a phone call, and he proceeds with the plan. Hitler informs Goering & Goebbels that all is proceeding the way it should. Python makes his way to Prof. Hortons place and tortures him for information on the Torchs mechanisms. Later, he forces Horton to call the Torch over, and when he arrives, Python uses Hortons machine to amplify the Torchs flame powers so high that hes driven insane. He attacks New York, and while everyones tied up dealing with the Torch, Python sends in a Nazi invasion fleet up the river. Namor battles the insane Torch atop the George Washington Bridge as the fleet invades. Eventually, the invading fleet is driven back and the Python is defeated. Namor, Toro, and Horton track down the Torch and reset his powers once everything settles down. 

References: 
Hey, its the Python! He was the villain in Sub-Mariner Comics 2/3, an Angel story. He was captured in that issue, and hes in prison here. Continuity! 

Even though Prof. Horton was thought dead after the creation of the Human Torch, he wasnt! He appeared alive here, and a mention is made about how he was thought dead, but wasnt. No explanation was given, but there you go. Invaders 22 tried to fix this up a bit. 

Human Torch 8/2

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A gag strip featuring Tubby & Tack. 

Human Torch 8/3

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A gag strip featuring Tubby & Tack. 

Human Torch 8/4

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A gag strip featuring Casey McKann. 

Human Torch 8/5

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A gag strip featuring Swoopy the fearless. 

Human Torch 8/6

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A gag strip featuring Swoopy the fearless. 

Human Torch 8/7

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A gag strip featuring Swoopy the fearless. 

Human Torch 8/8

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A gag strip featuring Swoopy the fearless. 

Human Torch 8/9

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A gag strip featuring peculiar people. By Basil Wolverton!

Some placement suggestions: 

HUMAN TORCH/JIM HAMMOND

HUMAN TORCH 5B (55:4-60)
ALL WINNERS COMICS 2
*HUMAN TORCH 6
*HUMAN TORCH 6/2
ALL WINNERS COMICS 3
INV 29-FB 

INV 16-FB
*HUMAN TORCH 7
*HUMAN TORCH 7/2
INV 16

ALL WINNERS COMICS 4
*HUMAN TORCH 8
CA: SL2 2-FB


TORO/TOM RAYMOND

HUMAN TORCH 5B
ALL WINNERS COMICS 2
*HUMAN TORCH 6
*HUMAN TORCH 6/2
ALL WINNERS COMICS 3
INV 29-FB 

INV 16-FB
*HUMAN TORCH 7
*HUMAN TORCH 7/2
INV 16

ALL WINNERS COMICS 4
*HUMAN TORCH 8
CA5 5-FB (11/42)


SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE

HUMAN TORCH 5B (55:4-60)
SUB-MARINER COMICS 4 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 4/2 
*HUMAN TORCH 6/4
ALL WINNERS COMICS 3/4
SUB-MARINER COMICS 23 
INV 29-FB
... 
INV 16-FB 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 5
SUB-MARINER COMICS 5/2 
*HUMAN TORCH 7/4
INV 16 
...
ALL WINNERS COMICS 4/4
*HUMAN TORCH 8
CA: SL2 2-FB


PYTHON/
SUB-MARINER COMICS 2/3
*HUMAN TORCH 8

PRENTISS, BETTY DEAN

MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 10
HUMAN TORCH 3/3
SUB-MARINER COMICS 1/2
INV 29-FB
INV 4 
*HUMAN TORCH 7/4
M/U 1
SAGASM 6
{SUB-M 8}


DEAN, JIM
HUMAN TORCH 7/4

DEAN, LLOYD
HUMAN TORCH 7/4

WILSON, CHIEF JOHN C.

HUMAN TORCH 5A 
*HUMAN TORCH 6-BTS
ALL WINNERS COMICS 4 
...

HORTON, PROFESSOR PHINEAS T.
...
MARVEL COMICS 1 (4:7-16) 
INV 22 (9:1-9:6)-FB 
*HUMAN TORCH 8
M/U 1 


FOLMA [ATLANTEAN]
HUMAN TORCH 2/2 
HUMAN TORCH 3/3 
SUB-MARINER COMICS 5
*HUMAN TORCH 7/4

HITLER, ADOLF

SGTF 29
GSINV 2-BTS (06/19/42)
*HUMAN TORCH 8
ALL WINNERS COMICS 4/5
TRUTH 6-FB
SGTF 32


GOEBBELS, JOSEF
SAGASM 5
SGTF 28
SGTF 29
*HUMAN TORCH 8
TRUTH 6-FB
SGTF 35

GOERING, HERMANN
HUMAN TORCH 3/2
CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS 2/2
SGTF 27
SGTF 28
*HUMAN TORCH 8
SGTF 58

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 16

Subject: Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 & TOS 54

Feb 17, 2008 2:29 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Tales of Suspense 54 (1-5:3)
Iron Man flies around in his fancy new armor, checks in with Happy & Pepper, then heads off to Washington where hes sent to China. So he straps himself to a rocket!

Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 (1:1-1:3)
Iron Man flies around, strapped to a rocket! Meanwhile, the Mandarin prepares his plans. 

Tales of Suspense 54 (5:4)
Iron Man detaches from the rocket 

Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 (1:4-2:1)
and lands. He then puts his suit in his briefcase. 

Tales of Suspense 54 (5:5-7:4)
Tony Stark checks in on one of his missile sites then heads for the Mandarins place. When he arrives he starts a fight with some guards. 

Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 (2:2-16)
Tony is brought before the Mandarin and hes thrown in a cell and the Mandarin prepares more of his plan. After a bit, Tony breaks loose, gets his suit, and approaches the Mandarin. 

Tales of Suspense 54 (7:5-8:5)
Iron Man & the Mandarin chat. 

Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 (17:1-17:4)
Mandarin shocks Iron Man. 

Tales of Suspense 54 (8:6-10:4)
Iron Man falls from the shock, they fight, Mandarin raises his sword. 

Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 (17:5-18:1)
Mandarin throws his sword. 

Tales of Suspense 54 (10:5-11)
The sword hits the wall. Iron Man shoots at the Mandarin. 

Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 (18:2-20:3)
The Mandarin fires back, they fight, then Mandarin starts to cover Iron Man in darkness. 

Tales of Suspense 54 (12:1-12:2)
Iron Man is enveloped in darkness. 

Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 (20:4-21:3)
While Iron Man is in darkness, the Mandarin fires metal bindings. 

Tales of Suspense 54 (12:3-12:4)
The bindings surround Iron Man. 

Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin 5 (21:4-22)
Iron Man is bound, the Mandarin gloats. 

Tales of Suspense 54 (12:5-13)
While the Mandarin gloats, Iron Man thinks about Happy & Pepper. 

References: 
Luckily, IM: ETM 5 starts after TOS 54 does, and theres no mention of how long its been since last issue, so we dont have to rearrange any existing chronologies. Also, the only two characters that appear in this issue are Iron Man & the Mandarin, so there are only two characters that need

Placement suggestions:

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK 

A: EMH 4 (1-5) 
TOS 54 (1-5:3)
*IM: ETM 5 (1:1-1:3)
TOS 54 (5:4)
*IM: ETM 5 (1:4-2:1)
TOS 54 (5:5-7:4)
*IM: ETM 5 (2:2-16)
TOS 54 (7:5-8:5)
*IM: ETM 5 (17:1-17:4)
TOS 54 (8:6-10:4)
*IM: ETM 5 (17:5-18:1)
TOS 54 (10:5-11)
*IM: ETM 5 (18:2-20:3)
TOS 54 (12:1-12:2)
*IM: ETM 5 (20:4-21:3)
TOS 54 (12:3-12:4)
*IM: ETM 5 (21:4-22)
TOS 54 (12:5-13)
TOS 55
...

MANDARIN
...
IM: ETM 4
*IM: ETM 5 (1)
TOS 54 (1-7:4)
*IM: ETM 5 (2-16)
TOS 54 (7:5-8:5)
*IM: ETM 5 (17:1-17:4)
TOS 54 (8:6-10:4)
*IM: ETM 5 (17:5-18:1)
TOS 54 (10:5-11)
*IM: ETM 5 (18:2-20:3)
TOS 54 (12:1-12:2)
*IM: ETM 5 (20:4-21:3)
TOS 54 (12:3-12:4)
*IM: ETM 5 (21:4-22)
TOS 54 (12:5-13)
TOS 55


-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 17

Subject: Calendar; Punisher: Force of Nature 1

Feb 17, 2008 3:50 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Punisher: Force of Nature #1
April, 2008

Appearances: 
The Punisher(Frank Castle)

Synopsis: 
(1-2)
The Punisher harpoons Dwight and drags him behind his speedboat. 
(3:1-3:2)-FB
Dwight gets on his boat. 
(3:3)-FB-FB
One night while in Philadelphia, the Punisher is told about Dwight. 
(4:1-4:2)-FB
Jackie gets on Dwights boat. 
(4:3-4:5)-FB-FB
One of Jackies prostitutes tells the Punisher about Jackie. That night, the Punisher starts to look into Dwight, Jackie, & a third guy. 
(5)-FB
Ian gets on Jackies boat. 
(6:1)-FB-FB
One night, the Punisher starts torturing mob guys, asking about Dwight and his friends. 
(6:2-6:3)-FB-FB
One night, the Punisher continues his investigation into Dwight and his friends. 
(6:4)-FB-FB
One night, the Punisher continues his investigation into Dwight and his friends. 
(7:1-7:2)-FB-FB
One day, while gunning down a warehouse full of Russian mobsters, the Punisher gets an idea about how to nail down his suspicions about Dwight and his friends. 
(7:3(of 3)-17)-FB
Now that all three are on Dwights boat they take off for a night of drinking on the high seas. However, the Punisher has rigged their engine to explode. When they inflate the life raft, its smaller than it should be.(the Punisher replaced it with a smaller one) After a while, they realize that their supplies arent all accounted for, and they start to get a little stir crazy. 
(18-29)-FB: next day
The friends start to confront each other about their current illegal activities and discover theyre all working different sides of the same operation for the Russian mob. As the Punisher listens from afar, Ian kills Jackie. Later, Dwight and Ian talk some more, and Dwight kills Ian. With only Dwight left, the Punisher stands up in his speedboat, announcing hes with the coast guard. When Diwght stands up, the Punisher fires his harpoon gun. 
(30-34): after (1-2)
As the Punisher drags Dwight to shore, he accidentally runs into a whale. Falling into the water, he fights and kills Dwight. Once he makes it to shore he puts Dwights head in a box and prepares to mail it to the Russian mob with a note attached. 

References: 
Its summertime, wherever this is. 

Theres no mention of other stories, this could go pretty much anywhere in the Punishers current chronology. Probably between issues 56 & 57 of the current volume, if only so Ennis can wrap up his run. 

A quick breakdown: 

PUN: FON 1 (3:3)-FB-FB: one night
PUN: FON 1 (4:3-4:5)-FB-FB: one night
PUN: FON 1 (6:1)-FB-FB: one night
PUN: FON 1 (6:2-6:3)-FB-FB: one night
PUN: FON 1 (6:4)-FB-FB: one night
PUN: FON 1 (7:1-7:2)-FB-FB: one day
PUN: FON 1 (3:1-3:2)-FB: Day 1
PUN: FON 1 (4:1-4:2)-FB: Day 1
PUN: FON 1 (5)-FB: Day 1
PUN: FON 1 (7:3-17)-FB: Day 1
PUN: FON 1 (18-29)-FB: Day 2
PUN: FON 1 (1-2): Day 2
PUN: FON 1 (30-34): Day 2

Theres no mention of how much time passes between each FlashBack within FlashBack, but I dont think the Punisher would spend TOO much time looking into three guys he had never heard of before, even if they are working for the Russian mob. Id say the whole thing lasts a week, two weeks tops.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 18

Subject: Marvel Comics Presents v2 #3/2

Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm 
By wolframbane

Greetings fellow chronologists. This is my first official comic review that I am posting on the MCP. 

MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS v2 #3/2
"Hateful" (8 pages)
January 2008

Appearances:
Main Cast: Magneto, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch
Other Characters: Whisper (Karl Reifschneider)

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Magneto, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch arrive in Germany and meet with the mutant Whisper, who possesses the power to steal the knowledge of anyone on Earth. Whisper offers to join forces with Magneto, who is skeptical until he learns Whisper was at Auschwitz. Magneto unexpecedly embraces Whisper and they share their philosophies about the future of mutantkind. However, after Whisper reveals his real name of Karl Reifschneider, Magneto realizes that he was not a fellow survivor of Auschwitz, but rather a Nazi soldier. Magneto attacks Whisper, and despite his assurance that he is no longer the man he once was, Magneto kills him and departs.

Placement notes:
A comment about Magneto being noted in the "human media" places the story after his public debut in UX 1, and it also takes place before the Brotherhood fully assembled and fought the X-Men in UX 4.

Quicksilver is wearing his blue uniform in this story rather than his green one, but X:FC 7 establishes he wore the blue one well before officially adopting it in A 75, probably as a secondary uniform.

The story occurs in Germany. References to the getting to the "east side" and "a simple wall" implies that this was before the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, but these are probably topical.

Some placement suggestions: 

MAGNETO/MAGNUS/"ERIC LENSHERR"
...
{UX 1}
*M/CP2 3/2
UX 4
...

QUICKSILVER/PIETRO MAXIMOFF 
...
X -1
*M/CP2 3/2
{UX 4}
...

SCARLET WITCH/WANDA MAXIMOFF
...
X -1
*M/CP2 3/2
{UX 4}
...

WHISPER/KARL REIFSCHNEIDER
*M/CP2 3/2
NOTE: WHISPER from WOSM 91 and WHISPER II from WOSM 92 will have to be changed to WHISPER II and WHISPER III respectively.

Calendar Placement: 

This story occurs sometime between UX 1/Late October of YEAR 3 (OMITTX 1) and UX 4 (1-9:3)/January of YEAR 4 ("weeks" before February, OMITTX 1)

			*	*	*

Thread 19

Subject: Spider-Man Special Edition: Trial of Venom

Feb 13, 2008 2:58 pm 
By cweed4

This comic was released in 1992 in a mail-away only(?) offer for UNICEF and written by Peter David.

Brief Summary:
Venom is being held at the Vault. It appears that his symbiote has killed itself in the cell. Back in NY, Daredevil asks Spidey to come with him as he is going out to defend Eddie Brock during his trail. Fast forward to the trial and Matt Murdock argues that the symbiote and not Eddie Brock is responsible for the crimes committed by Venom. Eddie fully plays along as a pathetic victim and even begs Spidey for forgiveness at one point. The verdict then comes in- not guilty. As Eddie leaves down the court hallway Spidey taunts him because he's not buying any of this. Of course Venom takes the bait and, shockingly, the symbiote bursts forth and reveals that it was not dead after all! A melee ensues which ultimately leads to Venom confronting Spidey in a cave. (But how did they even get outside?) Fear not, Spidey set this whole thing up with the aid of Vault holo-imagers and Venom has trapped himself back into his own cell. The issue concludes w/ DD & Spidey debating the true guilt of Eddie Brock back on a NY rooftop.

Characters:
SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER
DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK
VENOM
BROCK, EDDIE
MOONSTONE II/KARLA SOFEN
GREY GARGOYLE/PAUL PIERRE DUVAL/"PAUL ST. PIERRE"
NAGLE, BRENT
MS. BREWSTER

Chronology:
-The opening panels reference events from A:DV having already occurred
-Moonstone, Grey Gargoyle, and Venom all appear in different cells
-Spidey & DD know each others secret ID
-Daredevil mentions having defended Gladiator previously
-Spidey mentions that Venom was already found guilty in trial (this issue covers the appeal)
-Venom wants to kill Spidey
-Venom not surprised to see Spidey alive 

Analysis:
The introduction of Nagle & Brewster plus the single panel cameos for Moonstone & Grey Gargoyle are uninformative. The most important factor in determining placement is Venom both beginning and ending the issue imprisoned at the Vault. His murderous intentions toward Spidey place it before ASM 375. His escape from custody in WOSM 94 would also place it before that issue. At the end of ASM 363 Venom is being carted off to the Vault and has realized Spidey didn't die in ASM 347. It could then be asumed that the original trial took place after he was separated from the symbiote (by its apparent death) in ASM 333 and before it resurfaced to break him out of jail in ASM 344.
This placement (between ASM 363 & WOSM 94) covers a rather extensive period for Spidey. In attempting to find an appropriate gap for him and DD it fit best after Infinity War and before their shared appearance in PPTSS 196.
As for Moonstone & GG, aside from placing their listings after A:DV it was mostly guesswork from preliminary searches to update them. If anyone has the surrounding issues for each to double-check my conclusion that would helpful.

Updates:

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER
ASM 367
S-M 25
S-M 26
S-M 26/2
*SM:SE
PPTSS 191
PPTSS 192
PPTSS 193
PPTSS 194
PPTSS 195
PPTSS 196
WOSM 93
WOSM 94

DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK
IW 4
FF 370
*SM:SE
PPTSS 196-BTS
FF 373
GR3 36
FF 375
FF 376
FF 377
FF 378
M/HOL 1992/8
DD 312

VENOM
M/CP 122
ASM 362
ASM 363
*SM:SE
WOSM 94
SOV 4

BROCK, EDDIE
M/CP 122
ASM 362
ASM 363
*SM:SE
WOSM 94
SOV 4

MOONSTONE II/KARLA SOFEN
A:DV
FF@ 23/2-FB
*SM:SE
CA 379

GREY GARGOYLE/PAUL PIERRE DUVAL/"PAUL ST. PIERRE"
A:DV
S-H2 27
*SM:SE
AF 121
FFOR 6

NAGLE, BRENT (new entry)
*SM:SE

MS. BREWSTER (new entry)
*SM:SE

			*	*	*

Feb 13, 2008 7:42 pm 
By Enda80

The hologram of the beach the guards let Moonstone use in this issue next appears in Avengers Unplugged. 

By the way, in 1994's Hero Illustrated Villains Special, Peter David observed that Venom's encounters with Daredevil (such as in Fall From Grace) were gratutitious, since he though Venon had no beef with DD. However, face to face at a signing, I pointed out that Eddie Brock's ostensible reason for targeting Spider-Man is that he (Spider-Man) exposed the Sin-Eater's true identity as Stan Carter (Brock, engaging in substandard reporting, identified Emil Gregg as the Sin-Eater in a Daily Globe article). However, as I pointed out it was actually Daredevil who figured out that Emil Gregg was not the Sin-Eater (DD had encountered the true Sin-Eater earlier, go a read on the frequency of his heartbeat, and compared it to Gregg's). So Venom had just as much of a(n unfounded) vendetta against DD as SM.

			*	*	*

Feb 14, 2008 12:48 am 
By JLH

I, uhh, kind of already did an analysis for this... 

			*	*	*

Feb 14, 2008 9:39 am 
By cweed4

I just recently read this issue and didn't see any references to it on the chronologies. At least we came the same conclusions. (Except for a slight Moonstone change.) 


Enda80 wrote:
>>>
By the way, in 1994's Hero Illustrated Villains Special, Peter David observed that Venom's encounters with Daredevil (such as in Fall From Grace) were gratutitious, since he though Venon had no beef with DD. However, face to face at a signing, I pointed out that Eddie Brock's ostensible reason for targeting Spider-Man is that he (Spider-Man) exposed the Sin-Eater's true identity as Stan Carter (Brock, engaging in substandard reporting, identified Emil Gregg as the Sin-Eater in a Daily Globe article). However, as I pointed out it was actually Daredevil who figured out that Emil Gregg was not the Sin-Eater (DD had encountered the true Sin-Eater earlier, go a read on the frequency of his heartbeat, and compared it to Gregg's). So Venom had just as much of a(n unfounded) vendetta against DD as SM.
<<<

Interesting. However, it is plausible to assume that Eddie is unaware of Hornhead's role in the whole thing. Spidey was the one to originally tangle w/ Sin-Eater. Spidey was the one brought into Gregg's interrogation. Spidey was the one that caught the real S-E at Jameson's house. DD showed up to stop Spidey from beating S-E and chase him from the crime scene. With Betty Brant as the key witness to all of it and Peter (probably) getting photo credits for the story the fact that DD was involved at all might have been left out of the news reports. Considering Matt was concerned his DD abilities might be exposed its easy to assume he might have even taken steps to see that was the case.

			*	*	*

Feb 14, 2008 1:53 pm 
By jephyork
Director

>>>
face to face at a signing, I pointed out...
<<<

Poor PAD.

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Feb 15, 2008 5:36 pm 
By jephyork
Director

Prof. Frink: Yes, over here, ng'hey, ng'hey. In episode BF12, you were battling barbarians while riding a wing-ed Appaloosa, yet in the very next scene, my dear, you're clearly atop a wing-ed Arabian. Please to explain it...
Lucy Lawless: Ah, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that, a wizard did it.
Prof. Frink: I see, all right, yes, but in episode AG4 --
Lucy Lawless: Wizard.
Prof. Frink: [under breath] Aw, for glavin out loud.

-Jeph!

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Feb 15, 2008 5:58 pm 
By Somebody
Director

And by posting that, you lose the right to make posts like this

http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3074&p=22458#p22458

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Feb 17, 2008 8:00 pm 
By jephyork
Director

Lies. 

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 20

Subject: Daring Mystery Comics 1-4

Feb 09, 2008 5:54 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Daring Mystery Comics 1
January, 1940

Appearances: 
Fiery Mask(Dr. Jack Castle)

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg10
Dr. Jack Castle has been called in to help the police on a case when theyre attacked by a zombie. After the zombie is killed, Dr. Castle is told that homeless guys have gone missing, so he sets about to investigate it. He comes across a house thats using more electricity than it should, so he knocks on the door and is greeted by another zombie. Inside theyre attacked by a giant half mechanical bird, then greeted by a giant scientist.(by giant, I mean 15 feet tall giant) The scientist attempts to turn Dr. Castle into another zombie, but Castle taunts him. This pisses the giant scientist off, so he turns the machine all the way up, causing it to explode. Glowing, Dr. Castle beats up the scientist, blows up the house and flies away. Now that he has powers, he decides to fight crime under the name the Fiery Mask!(because his face glows when hes angry)

References: 
An editors caption asks us to follow the adventures of the Fiery Mask, but he doesnt appear again until issue 5. 

Daring Mystery Comics 1/2

Appearances: 
John Steele: Soldier of Fortune

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg9
John Steele saves a nurse from the Nazis! Shes on a mission to get secret information to a general, so he helps her get across the battlefield, stealing a tank and shooting down Nazi planes. They eventually find the general, accomplishing the mission. 

Daring Mystery Comics 1/3

Appearances: 
Texas Kid

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg9
The Texas Kid & his horse Spot come across a barn on fire. The owner was being forced out, but dies before he can say whos responsible. After riding around the wild west, he defeats the bandits and the rouge banker behind the dastardly deed. 

References: 
An editors caption tells us to read the Texas Kid again next month, but as far as I can tell, he never makes another appearance again. 

Daring Mystery Comics 1/4
Appearances: 
Monako, Prince of Magic, Mr. Muro

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg11
Monako uses magic to save a girl from getting run over by a car, and she tells him that her brother is going to be kidnapped by Mr. Muro, Monakos old enemy. After doing some magic tricks, Monako saves the brother but Mr. Muro gets away. 

Daring Mystery Comics 1/5

Appearances: 
Flash Foster

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Flash Foster plays some football!

References: 
An editors caption informs us that next issue will have a big game against Central California, but sadly, well never see it. 

Daring Mystery Comics 1/6

Appearances: 
Dr. Det. Stewart Doc Denton

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg7
Doc Denton goes undercover as a mob doctor, and eventually gets all the mobsters arrested. 

References: 
Detective Stewart Denton is called Doc by his fellow police officers because he is also a master surgeon! Wow! A doctor and a detective! Its too bad that the editors caption that promises another adventure of this guy next issue is lying to us. 

Daring Mystery Comics 1/7

Appearances: 
Barney Mullen

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg7
Barney Mullen takes a job hauling precious cargo, but along the way his boat is attacked by a Nazi plane and submarine. His crew mutinies, but he eventually defeats them, beating them all into submission. However, shortly afterwards his ships engines explodes, and hes forced to escape in the lifeboats. 


Daring Mystery Comics 2
February, 1940

Appearances: 
Zephyr Jones

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg14
Zephyr Jones and his boys jump in his rocket ship and head off into space. They quickly find a previously undiscovered planet, Sunev, filled with humans with wings! They avert a civil war, then head back into space

References: 
An editors caption promises more adventures of Zephyr Jones in the next issue, and while another adventure does appear next month, it wont be in this series. It ended up in Mystic Comics #1(March, 1940) instead. 

Daring Mystery Comics 2/2

Appearances: 
Phantom Bullet(Allen Lewis)

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg10
Wealthy reporter Allen Lewis investigates a murder and is attacked. The next day, his editor sends him to investigate an inventor who claims people are trying to kill him. Lewis checks the guy out, whos invented a gun that shoots ice bullets. He humors the guy when hes given the gun and blueprints for safe keeping, and leaves, thinking nothing more of it. Later, he hears that the inventor has been killed. He puts on a suit and eventually discovers that African head hunters are responsible for the whole mess. Later, his editor names the adventurer the Phantom Bullet because he shoots people with bullets that disappear!

References: 
Thats right: ice bullets. They cant all be winners. 

Daring Mystery Comics 2/3

Appearances: 
Trojak the Tiger Man, King of the Jungle, Edith Alton

Synopsis: 
Pg1pn1-pg1pn3
The leader of Trojaks tribe tells Trojak his origin.
Pg1pn4-pg2pn3-FB
Trojaks father is killed by savages, leaving his infant son alone in the jungle. A friendly tribe takes the tyke in to raise him as their own. 
Pg2pn4-pg10
Now that Trojak knows why hes white and everyone else is black, hes sent out to find his own people by the leader of the tribe. He and his tiger Balu go out into the jungle and find some white people who are trying to enslave some local folks. They beat up the slavers and set the locals free, and Trojak befriends a girl, Edith. They part ways and Trojak feels lonely, so he finds them again, but this time the white folks are being enslaved by the locals! He frees them and they take off in their boat, the girl wondering if shell ever see Trojak again. 

Daring Mystery Comics 2/4

Appearances: 
K-4(Capt.), Lt. Rene DAuvergne, Lt. Ronald Wolverstone-Clodd

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg10
K-4 & his Sky-Devils shoot down some Nazi planes, then go back to the British base theyre stationed at. There K-4 is given a sabotage mission: destroy some German anti-aircraft guns on the Baltic Coast. He sneaks into enemy territory and blows up the munitions depot, escapes, and eventually returns to base. 

References: 
K-4 is an American, Rene is a Frenchman, and Ronald is an Englishman. All are fighting against the Nazis with their planes!

Daring Mystery Comics 2/5

Appearances: 
Mr. E(Vince Jay), Vampire

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg10
Several wealthy men have all died within a short amount of time, so Vince Jay decides to investigate as Mr. E. He quickly realizes that his old enemy the Vampire is behind it all, stops his current plan, but the Vampire escapes. 

Daring Mystery Comics 2/6

Appearances: 
Laughing Mask(Dennis Burton)

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
A recent train wreck doesnt sound like an accident to Asst. District Attorney Dennis Burton, so he decides to investigate. He looks around the train yards and is quickly nabbed by some mobsters. He changes into the Laughing Mask and starts to kill them all! He shoots some in the face, he throws others off of moving trains, and leaves one alive with a confession note pinned to his chest to be picked up by the police. 

References: 
A newspaper places this on January 1st, 1940. 

An editors caption tells us that the Laughing Mask will return next issue. Well, Dennis Burton does, but not as the Laughing Mask. Instead, for some reason, hes the Purple Mask next issue. Its the same guy, same modus operandi, just a different suit & name. Weird. 


Daring Mystery Comics 3
April, 1940

Appearances: 
Dale of the F.B.I.

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Theres a prison breakout, and a convict eventually kidnaps a woman and demands $500,000 in ransom money. Dale of the F.B.I. puts a stop to that!

References: 
Um, yeah. 

Daring Mystery Comics 3/2

Appearances: 
Breeze Barton

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg9
Its the future, the year is 1945! The entire world is at war and Breeze Barton of the United States Air Force is on a scouting expedition in South Africa when he spots an army of Japanese soldiers on the march. Breeze decides to fly to London to warn the Allies when hes shot down and lands in the desert. He sees a fantastic city and makes his way to it. Inside he learns that time stands still, and a scientist has been there for 12,000 years. No one can leave, but Breeze has a great idea involving magnets when theyre attacked by the demon people. Everyone fights for a few hours, and the demon people are defeated. Breezes magnet idea works out great, and he prepares to leave to tell London of the marching Japanese troops in South Africa. 

References: 
To be continued!

Daring Mystery Comics 3/3

Appearances: 
Purple Mask(Dennis Burton)

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Asst. District Attorney Dennis Burton overhears a man telling the Commissioner that hes being threatened, so Burton changes into the Purple Mask to take care of it himself. He quickly tracks down the villains and kills all but one! Shooting some and dipping others in acid, he leaves one alive for the police. 

References: 
Yup. Thats the same guy, all right.

Daring Mystery Comics 3/4

Appearances: 
Phantom Reporter(Dick Jones)

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Random families have been attacked in their homes, so Dick Jones editor sends him off to investigate. As the Phantom Reporter, Dick figures out that the murders are being sponsored by the Park Commissioner, who wanted everyone to move out of the East Side of town out of fear, so he and his buddies could buy up all the property cheap and split the profits. 

Daring Mystery Comics 3/5

Appearances: 
Trojak, Edith Alton

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg13
Trojak is attacked by a dinosaur, so he & his tiger defeat it, with the help of his tribesmen. He then talks to an owl, who tells him of monsters that spit fire. Meanwhile, Ediths boat is attacked by Nazis! Trojak puts it together, and realizes that the Nazis are tearing down the jungle for war supplies. He steals into the base and frees Edith, vowing to destroy the base with his jungle friends. 

Daring Mystery Comics 3/4

Appearances: 
Marvex, the Super-Robot

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg7
In the Fifth Dimension, alien creatures decide to build a robot slave modeled after humans. When Marvex awakens, hes royally pissed that he was created to be a slave, so he kills his creators and destroys their lab. Somehow, the explosion throws him to Earth, where he tows a mans car to a gas station.(he was out of gas) The man is thankful, so he gives Marvex twenty bucks. Marvex uses the money to guy a suit and tie, so he wont stand out so much. He meets a girl whos father was killed by Nazi spies, so Marvex finds and kills the Nazi. 

Daring Mystery Comics 3/5

Appearances: 
Captain Bob Strong

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Captain Strong has some adventures with the Foreign Legion. 

Daring Mystery Comics 3/6

Synopsis: 
Pg1
A one-page gag about selling fake medicine. 


Daring Mystery Comics 4
May, 1940

Appearances: 
Purple Mask(Dennis Burton)

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Asst. District Attorney Dennis Burton witnesses a robbery and decides to do something about it as the Purple Mask. He doesnt kill all of them this time; he just throws two of the crooks out of a speeding car. He leaves the others alive for the police. 

References: 
Even though an editors caption promises another Purple Mask adventure next issue, the only Mask that appears in issue 5 will be the Fiery Mask. 

Daring Mystery Comics 4/2

Appearances: 
K-4(Capt.), Lt. Rene DAuvergne, Lt. Ronald Wolverstone-Clodd

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg6
A Nazi Zeppelin is dropping mines into the Thames, so K-4 and his Sky-Devils are called in to take care of it. 

Daring Mystery Comics 4/3

Appearances: 
Monako, Prince of Magic, Mr. Muro

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg10
Monako chases Mr. Muro to Nicaragua, and even though he grows some giant birds and enlarges himself to over 100 feet tall, Muro gets away. Again. 

Daring Mystery Comics 4/4

Appearances:
Whirlwind Carter of the Interplanetary Service

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Whirlwind Carter lives on the highly civilized planet of Venus. One day, while on monitor duty, he sees an Earth Scout Craft leaving Mars thats shot down by a Martian Destroyer, and it crash lands on Venus. Whirlwind gets the pilot out of the wreckage, one Brenda Hale, agent of the Space army, Womens division, 7th regiment. She informs Whirlwind of an imminent Mars attack on Earth; they plan to conquer it. Meanwhile, the Martians land on earth, load up the humans into rockets and shoot them into space to make room for themselves. In space, Whirlwind captures the humans rockets and tows them all to Venus. He then returns to Earth and begins bombing New York City, which drives the Martians out into the open, where Whirlwind SINGLE HANDEDLY defeats them, and they go running back to Mars. Whirlwind is then appointed the head of the Earth Department of the Interplanetary Secret Service. 

References: 
To be continued!

Daring Mystery Comics 4/5

Appearances: 
Marvex, the Super-Robot

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Marvex frees a man on death row while foiling a prison break!

Daring Mystery Comics 4/6

Appearances: 
Don Gorman, G-Man!

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg8
Secret Agent Don Gorman defeats Nazi spies from stealing prototype plane parts. 

Daring Mystery Comics 4/7

Appearances: 
Breeze Barton

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg7
Breeze Barton returns from the Miracle City but fifty years too late! Its 1995 and the world is in ruins! The surviving Humans have reverted to savagery, but Breeze wants to fight for progress and a return to civilization. 

Daring Mystery Comics 4/8

Appearances: 
Trojak, Edith Alton

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg7
As Trojak prepares to attack the Nazi camp, Edith realizes that her brother is a Nazi. He tells her to tell Trojak not to fight the Nazis, so she passes the message on. Trojak cals off the attack, and the Nazis attack him instead so he fights back. Edith is captured and her brother, Jerry, is revealed to be an Allied spy. Trojak is captured and brought inside the base. They escape and blow up the base. Edith asks if Trojak will come to the civilized world with her, but he wants to stay in the jungle. 

Some placement suggestions: 

FIERY MASK/DR. JACK CASTLE 
*DARING MYSTERY COMICS 1
HUMAN TORCH 2/6 
TWELVE 1 
TWELVE 2-FB

LAUGHING MASK/DENNIS BURTON 
*DARING MYSTERY COMICS 2/6
*DARING MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 (as the Purple Mask)
*DARING MYSTERY COMICS 4 (as the Purple Mask)
TWELVE 1 
TWELVE 2-FB
(obviously, as seen in the TWELVE, Dennis returned to his Laughing Mask identity. Its the same character, and should probably be in the same chronology, if only because he made so few appearances. The above is my preferred suggestion, but we could also go with...)

LAUGHING MASK/DENNIS BURTON/PURPLE MASK
DARING MYSTERY COMICS 2/6
DARING MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
DARING MYSTERY COMICS 4
TWELVE 1 
TWELVE 2-FB

Or

PURPLE MASK
See Laughing Mask

LAUGHING MASK/DENNIS BURTON 
DARING MYSTERY COMICS 2/6
DARING MYSTERY COMICS 3/3 
DARING MYSTERY COMICS 4
TWELVE 1 
TWELVE 2-FB

MISTER E./VINCE JAY 
*DARING MYSTERY COMICS 2/5
TWELVE 1 
TWELVE 2-FB

PHANTOM BULLET/ALLEN LEWIS
DARING MYSTERY COMICS 2/2

PHANTOM REPORTER/DICK JONES 
*DARING MYSTERY COMICS 3/4
TWELVE 2-FB-FB
TWELVE 1 (1-21)
TWELVE 2-FB 
TWELVE 1 (22)
TWELVE 2

-Daron Jensen

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Feb 09, 2008 10:39 am 
By dimadick

A few comments on publication history:

1)Fiery Mask's known appearances include "Daring Mystery Comics" #1 (January, 1940), "Human Torch Comics" #2 (Fall, 1940) and "Daring Mystery Comics" #5-6 (June-September, 1940). Which places his early publication history within a single year. Daring went on hiatus for a few months. Issue #7 (May, 1941) features an entirely new line-up of series. 

2) John Steele seems to be a one-shot character. A new character with the name "John Steel" turned up in "Sentinel Squad O.N.E" #3 (May, 2006) as the commanding officer of their first squad. If either of them gets a listing, they should need a disambiguation notice. 

3) Texas Kid was indeed a one-shot character. However Marvel later reused the codename for Texas Kid/Lance Temple. Lance starred in "Texas Kid" #1-10 (January, 1951 - July, 1952). He also had a couple of stories in anthology titles, "Two-Gun Western" vol. 1 #8-9 (June-August, 1951) and "Wild Western" #23-25 (August - December, 1952). 

4) Monako only appeared within the Daring Mystery Comics title. He debutes in #1, returns in #4-6 and then joins the other starts of the title in limbo. 

5) This Flash Foster was a one-shot. However, Marvel reused the name for the star of a minor 1950s series. Frederick "Flash" Foster, Jr appeared in "Young Men" #21-23 (June-October, 1953) as the leader of the "High-Gear Hot-Shots", a group of teenaged amateur race car drivers and part-time crime fighters. The series ended when Captain America, Human Torch and Sub-Mariner took over the title with #24. 

6) Dr. Det. Stewart Doc Denton is called the "Phantom of the Underworld" in the first panel of his debute. He tends to be listed as such in online resources. 

7) Barney Mullen is a one-shot character. Jess Nevins condiders him closely based (a "knock-off") of Captain Owen Kettle, the title character of an 1897 novel which inspired a number of film adaptations in the 1920s. 

8) Zephyr Jones was another one-shot character. 

9) Phantom Bullet/Allen Lewis was a one-shot character. But don't dismiss ice bullets as an enduring literary device. They turn up as one of the secret technologies used in "Deception Point" (2001), a thriller novel by Dan Brown. 

10) Trojak the Tiger Man seems to have appeared only in the pages of Daring Mystery. Other than issues #2-6, no known appearances. 

11) K-4 and the Sky-Devils only appear in issues #2, #4-5. They are representatives of a subgenre of heroic fighter pilots, featuring characters with different national origins in Foreign Legion style. The most enduring example were probably the Blackhawks by Quality Comics. At least the only ones to outlast World War II. 

12) Mister E/Victor Jay was indeed a one-shot character, until now. Marvel later reused the codename for a Captain Universe villain who appeared in "Marvel Spotlight" vol. 2 #9 (November, 1980). The latter already has an MCP listing. Should it change to Mister E II?

13) You seem to have covered every 1940s appearance for Purple Mask/Laughing Mask/Dennis Burton. 

14) Dale of the F.B.I. was a one-shot character. Federal Beaurau of Investigations agents were often protagonists in adventure strips of the 1930s. 

15) Breeze Barton only appeared in issues #3-5. His storyline had no resolution. 

16) Phantom Reporter was a one-shot character prior to his 21st century revival. 

17) "Marvex, the Super-Robot" "He meets a girl whos father was killed by Nazi spies, so Marvex finds and kills the Nazi."

Take note of the girl. This is Clara Crandall, his only supporting cast member. She appeared with him in all three of their stories in #3-5. 

18) Captain Strong was a one-shot character. He belongs to a subgenre of soldiers of fortune who were popular in the pulps and the comics between the two World Wars. 

19) Whirlwind Carter and Brenda Hale only appeared in #4-5. 

20) Don Gorman, G-Man was a one-shot character. With the writer apparently unable to make up his mind about his employement status. So Don is a test pilot for the "National Aero Company.", an engine mechanic and inventor, a United States secret agent and an FBI freelance associate. Anything else?

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Feb 10, 2008 3:40 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

dimadick wrote:
>>>
2) John Steele seems to be a one-shot character. A new character with the name "John Steel" turned up in "Sentinel Squad O.N.E" #3 (May, 2006) as the commanding officer of their first squad. If either of them gets a listing, they should need a disambiguation notice. 
<<<

John Steele probably wouldn't get listed here, as he only appears in one issue; there's no chronology to list if there's only one issue. If John Steel were to get a listing, I wouldn't think he'd need a note separating him from John Steele, the names are spelled differently. That alone would be notice enough, I would think. 


dimadick wrote:
>>>
 6) Dr. Det. Stewart Doc Denton is called the "Phantom of the Underworld" in the first panel of his debute. He tends to be listed as such in online resources. 
<<<

Ah. Well, the Phantom Bullet is called the "Scourge of the Underworld" in the first panel of his debut, so I figured it was hyperbole. I didn't realize it was his code-name. 


Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
An editors caption promises more adventures of Zephyr Jones in the next issue, and while another adventure does appear next month, it wont be in this series. It ended up in Mystic Comics #1(March, 1940) instead.
<<<


dimadick wrote:
>>>
8) Zephyr Jones was another one-shot character.
<<<

So you're saying that the two Zephyr Jones' are two different characters? I can't check Mystic Comics #1 myself, at least until it's released in Masterworks, so I'm not entirely sure if my resource is accurate in this case. If a Zephyr Jones does appear in Mystic Comics #1 though, it seems strange that they would re-use the same name for a new character so shortly after it was used the first time. But then they changed the Laughing Mask into the Purple Mask within a month's time, so there's that I guess. 


dimadick wrote:
>>>
12) Mister E/Victor Jay was indeed a one-shot character, until now. Marvel later reused the codename for a Captain Universe villain who appeared in "Marvel Spotlight" vol. 2 #9 (November, 1980). The latter already has an MCP listing. Should it change to Mister E II?
<<<

Good catch! Yes, the latter should. Thanks, dimadick!

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 10, 2008 10:06 am 
By Somebody
Director

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
John Steele probably wouldn't get listed here, as he only appears in one issue; there's no chronology to list if there's only one issue.
<<<

This is something I've been unclear about on for some time, and probably should be now I'm a Director  - what qualifies a character for a listing? They need a full name or codename and must appear in a canon book. What else?

There's plenty of one-shot characters dotted about the MCP - Marvel Boy I/Martin Burns I and Marvel Boy II/Martin Burns II being two particularly egregious examples - and just above them is a one-shot "MARTINEZ, MRS." who doesn't even have a full name. "T'AL" is listed in a one-shot FB.

			*	*	*

Feb 10, 2008 12:19 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

If they have a code name, they're listed in the chronologies. Case closed.

If they appear in more than one title, they're listed in the chronologies. Case closed.

If we only know their first or last name, but not both, they are genarally not listed in the chronologies, unless rule #2 above applies (i.e., Randi, Candy and Bambi from the Spider-Man mythos), or unless it is reasonably certain the character will appear in the future, in another title, or with their full name revealed. A good example of this would be the parent or spouse of a main supporting character.

If we know the character's full name, then it's pretty much just a judgement call, rather than a hard and fast rule. How important is the character to the story, and how likely are we to see the character again?


watching: flip this house

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Feb 12, 2008 4:35 pm 
By Adamant

dimadick wrote:
>>>
1)Fiery Mask's known appearances include "Daring Mystery Comics" #1 (January, 1940), "Human Torch Comics" #2 (Fall, 1940) and "Daring Mystery Comics" #5-6 (June-September, 1940). Which places his early publication history within a single year. Daring went on hiatus for a few months. Issue #7 (May, 1941) features an entirely new line-up of series. 
<<<

You got the order wrong. The publication order is DMC #2, #5, #6, then HT #2.
The monthly books operate with the predated coverdates, but the quarterly books are given accurate quarter labels. Human Torch #2 did indeed come out in the fall of 1940, but Daring Mystery #6 came out long before September that year. HT#2 is advertised on the cover of Marvel Mystery Comics #14, coverdated December 1940, so it came out at the same time as other books coverdated December - long after Daring Mystery had been cancelled. This is why the character appeared in that book - they had one more story starring the guy lying around, and no book to put it in, so when the Torch's solo book was launched, they threw a couple inventory stories into it.

This later happened with USA Comics #5. Issues #1-#4 had a steady cast of characters, issue #5 had a slew of new stories starring characters who hadn't been around for a while, then #6 introduced another slew of new people who stuck around for some time. Martin Goodman didn't like letting stories he had already paid for stay unused.

			*	*	*

Feb 13, 2008 3:10 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Adamant is correct about the publication order, and because I heavily lean on publication dates for Golden Age chronologies when no other clues are apparent I'll suggest: 

FIERY MASK/DR. JACK CASTLE
DARING MYSTERY COMICS 1
[DARING MYSTERY COMICS 5]
[DARING MYSTERY COMICS 6]
HUMAN TORCH 2/6 
TWELVE 1 
TWELVE 2-FB

5 & 6 are in brackets, because I won't be able to verify them until another Daring Masterworks is released. Or, until I win the lottery.

			*	*	*

Feb 21, 2008 1:52 am 
By wolframbane

I came across a reference on the Marvel Master List of the Purple Mask appearing or being referred to in Thunderbolts #111. Also mentioned are Black Fox, Scarlet Spider, Digger, Dansen Macabre and Battlestar. Does anyone have this issue to confirm if any of these characters have an appearance?

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Feb 21, 2008 2:23 am 
By dimadick

The names come up while Norman looks up names in the list of targets for the Thunderbolts. The characters themselves do not appear.

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Feb 21, 2008 2:37 am 
By wolframbane

Thanks for the clarification dimadick!!

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Feb 21, 2008 2:46 am 
By wolframbane

Hey Col_Fury, when you incorporate DARING MYSTERY COMICS #2/6 (Laughing Mask) into your WWII timeline, here are a few suggestions:
DARING MYSTERY 2/6 (1:2). December 31, 1939. Train accident was probably the day before the headline.
DARING MYSTERY 2/6 (2:1). January 1, 1940. Newspaper printed about accident gives date.
DARING MYSTERY 2/6 (2:2-8:8). One day/night sometime between January 23-25, 1940. A full moon is depicted that night, which occurs during this period in 1940.

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Thread 21

Subject: Silver Surfer: In Thy Name 1-4

Feb 23, 2008 6:47 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Silver Surfer: In Thy Name #1
January, 2008

Appearances:
Silver Surfer(Norrin Radd), Shalla Bal-FB, Galactus-FB, and a bunch of aliens

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg7pn4
The Silver Surfer is chilling out in space when hes attacked by organ harvesting space pirates! After some quick back-and-forth, the pirates are scared off by an approaching Ama Collective space ship. They invite the Silver Surfer inside and start to chat. 
Pg7pn5-FB
Norrin & Shalla Bal hold each other under the shadow of the approaching Galactus. 
Pg7pn6(of 6): now
The chat continues!
Pg8pn1-FB
The Silver Surfer is created from Norrin Radd by the hand of Galactus!
Pg8pn2(of 6)-pg22
The Silver Surfer is brought to Ama and meets their leader, and discovers how beautiful and peaceful their world is. Hes then brought to Brekknis, an ugly looking nearby planet where the inhabitants arent very civilized and still cling to religious idols. Hes then attacked by a giant monster!

Silver Surfer: In Thy Name #2
February, 2008

Appearances: 
Silver Surfer(Norrin Radd), and a bunch of aliens

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5: continued from last issue
The Silver Surfer defeats the monster. 
Pg6-pg11pn1: the next day
The Silver Surfer foils an assassination attempt on the leader of the Ama Collective. However, this somehow offends her and he starts to rethink his first impression. That night he has a chat with one of the Brekk. 
Pg11pn2-pg13pn1-FB
The origin of the Brekk!
Pg13pn2(of 6)-pg16
The Brekk thinks the Silver Surfer is their savior, which really pisses the Silver Surfer off. He trashes the place and leaves. 
Pg17-pg22: the next day
The Silver Surfer confronts the Ama leader about politics and leaves for space, where hes captured by the organ harvesting space pirates. 

Silver Surfer: In Thy Name #3
March, 2008

Appearances: 
Silver Surfer(Norrid Radd), Galactus-FB, Shalla Bal-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1pn1: now, day after last issue
The Silver Surfer grimaces.
Pg1pn2-FB
Norrin Radd defiantly protects Shalla Bal from the shadow of Galactus. 
Pg1pn3: now
The Silver Surfer grimaces. 
Pg1pn4-FB
The Silver Surfer offers a world to his master Galactus to feed on. 
Pg1pn5: now
The Silver Surfer grimaces. 
Pg1pn6-FB
The Silver Surfer contemplates on an alien world. 
Pg1pn7(of 7): now
The Silver Surfer is grimaces. 
Pg2pn1-FB: just before pg1
The Silver Surfer is crucified. 
Pg2pn2: now
The Silver Surfer grimaces. 
Pg2pn3-FB
The Silver Surfer is propped up. 
Pg2pn4(of 4)-pg4pn2
The Silver Surfer is pulled down by the Brekk. 
Pg4pn3-FB
The crucifiers leave the Silver Surfer behind. 
Pg4pn4(of 6)-pg5pn2: now
The Silver Surfer rolls around. 
Pg5pn3-FB
The Silver Surfers arm is nailed down. 
Pg5pn4(of 5)-pg22
The Silver Surfer thanks the Brekk for freeing him, then he decides to chat with a third party to get a different view on these two worlds. That third party is the monster that attacked him when he first arrived on Brekknis. As it turns out, the Ama are holding the creatures child captive, and the both the Ama and the Brekk are looking for a reason to start a war. This doesnt sit well with the Silver Surfer, so he approaches both worlds leaders with an ultimatum: 

Reach a peace quickly, or my master Galactus will eat you. 

Meanwhile, Galactus approaches from space and hes hungry

Silver Surfer: In Thy Name #4
April, 2008

Appearances: 
Silver Surfer(Norrin Radd), and a bunch of aliens

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg3
The Silver Surfer restates his demands while Galactus hovers in space. 
Pg4-pg22: some time later
The Ama and Brekk have decided to leave things as they are, but not to actually solve anything. The Silver Surfer isnt happy, but at least they arent fighting. As they continue to talk, the Silver Surfer starts to have hope that things will work out, but both parties are quietly researching Galactus, and soon attack it, realizing hes not real. Galactus is revealed to be the creature that attacked the Surfer in issue one, and theres a really big fight. The Surfer rescues the creatures child and leaves the warring planets behind. 

References: 
Hrm. The first two issues were all right, but at the end of issue three when Galactus arrived I thought that was really cool. I thought, hey, they started the series with an ambiguous some time in the past placement and then surprise! Its current status quo! And the Surfers pissed! Neat! I was pretty happy for a couple weeks, and then I read issue four. Bleh. 

So as it turns out, this series really is an ambiguous sometime in the past placement, sometime after the Surfer is released from his exile on Earth. Any Surfer fans what to take a stab at where in his chronology this should go? 

Heres how the Flashbacks in issue 3 fit between issues 2 & 3: 

SS: ITN 1
SS: ITN 2
SS: ITN 3 (2:1)-FB
SS: ITN 3 (5:3)-FB
SS: ITN 3 (2:3)-FB
SS: ITN 3 (4:3)-FB
SS: ITN 3
SS: ITN 4

Also, the FlashBacks to his origin: any ideas? Here they are again: 

SS: ITN 1 (7:5)-FB: Norrin & Shalla Bal hold each other under the shadow of the approaching Galactus.
SS: ITN 3 (1:2)-FB: Norrin Radd defiantly protects Shalla Bal from the shadow of Galactus.
SS: ITN 1 (8:1)-FB: The Silver Surfer is created from Norrin Radd by the hand of Galactus!
SS: ITN 3 (1:4)-FB: The Silver Surfer offers a world to his master Galactus to feed on. (pre-FF 48)
SS: ITN 3 (1:6)-FB: The Silver Surfer contemplates on an alien world. (post-exile)

-Daron Jensen

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Thread 22

Subject: Howard the Duck v3 1-4

Feb 24, 2008 12:09 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Howard the Duck v3 #1
December, 2007

Appearances: 
Howard the Duck, Beverly Switzler, M.O.D.O.T., Lance Pierce, Great Lakes Avengers-BTS

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22
After waking up from a nightmare, Howard realizes hes in his cab, and that hes not driving. He switches places with Bev and they chat about her recent beer commercial. Bevs dropped off at her current gig, and Adam & Eve play called the Oldest Story, they run into Lance, and Howard goes off to work. Meanwhile in an A.I.M. base, M.O.D.O.T. schemes. Elsewhere, the Twin Barrels(theyre twins, theyre scientists, and their last name is Barrel) return from their hunting trip, where they didnt get anything. Meanwhile, Bev rehearses. Later, Howard picks up the Twin Barrels in his cab, and upon realizing that the cab is being driven by a duck, they decide to kill him, so they wont be complete failures at hunting. Howard eventually defeats them by beating them with mannequins, and the whole thing is caught on tape by Beverlys director Serge.(the theater is nearby) That night, M.O.D.O.T. catches Howards fight on MeTube, which gives him a plan

References: 
M.O.D.O.T. stands for Mental Organism Designed Only for Talking. And yes, he looks very similar to M.O.D.O.K.. 

While Howard is listening to the radio, mention is made of the outcome of Civil War, placing this mini after that. The radio also says that the Great Lakes Avengers are searching the woods of Lake Erie for some missing cheerleaders, giving them a BTS. Whos in the Great Lakes Avengers post-Civil War, anyway? 

Howard the Duck v3 #2
January, 2008

Appearances: 
Howard the Duck, Beverly Switzler, M.O.D.O.T., Mr. Good-Ear, She-Hulk(Jen Walters)

Synopsis: 
Pg1: Monday, about two weeks after last issue, give or take
The MeTube video Howard the Duck pwns the Hunters is spreading across the country like wildfire! Its a recommended Top Ten Favorite, and it already has 917,308 views! 
Pg2-pg10: Tuesday
Howard wakes up with a hangover, he and Bev were playing a drinking game of hearing their names on TV. He goes back to bed with Bev when he hears someone chanting Free Beer! outside. When he checks on it hes attacked. Serge is attempting to make a MeTube sequel, but Howard steal his cameraphone and sends them away. Bevs agent Sid arrives and books them on a talk show. Elsewhere, the Twin Barrels arrive at work and are mocked for being beaten up by a duck. Two A.I.M. agents posing as janitors watch the twins, then report to M.O.D.O.T.. 
Pg11-pg21: Wednesday
Howard and Bev arrive at the talk show and are greeted by their super human security, Mr. Good-Ear. They meet the other guests and Howard finds a secret passage, but hes directed away. When the show gets started, Howard is asked if hes an American citizen, and a hunter in the audience opens fire, trying to hunt Howard. Suddenly everyones shooting, so Howard tries to get Bev out of the way. He returns to try and calm everyone down, but hes accused of shooting someone and arrested. 
Pg22: Thursday
While She-Hulk is driving down the street, Beverly calls her up and hires her to be Howards lawyer. 

References: 
Ive included the passage of time with the page/panel ranges, so there you go. Oh, and its spring/summer/early autumn in Cleveland. 

She-Hulk is green and still doing lawyer stuff, placing this after Dan Slott & before Peter David in She-Hulks book. 

The talk show host is a robot controlled by M.O.D.O.T., as are the other media folks shown in the next two issues. So even if theyre intended to be real people, even though they have funny names, theyre only robots. However, the other celebrity folks who appear arent robots, but they have funny names. The Ted Nugent guy comes to mind, but his name here is Ted Newman, so I wont bother listing these people. If they had used real names I would have, but theyre reduced to parodies. 

Ted Newman has a sweet guitar/shotgun, and to fire it he has to play a chord. Neat! 

Mr. Good-Ear is the guys code-name, so he gets a listing. Who knows what his real name is, though. 

Howard the Duck v3 #3
February, 2008

Appearances: 
Howard the Duck, Beverly Switzler, M.O.D.O.T., She-Hulk(Jen Walters)

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg21: one day in the week following last issues week
People everywhere are arguing over the Howard case! Meanwhile, Beverly is hitting the talk show circuit trying to clear his name, and the Twin Barrels are thinking that the whole mess is a secret plot to stop their scientific anti-proton experiments. Elsewhere, She-Hulk attends Howards bail hearing, but the judge is distracted by the Howard coverage on TV. But he decides that if Howard signs the Registration papers he can walk. Elsewhere, M.O.D.O.T. controls the media! Later, Howard signs the papers, explaining to She-Hulk that he tried to do this already. When they leave theyre accosted by a large crowd of Howard protestors, and he saves them from a falling statue. He goes back to the secret passage he found and discovers M.O.D.O.T. with Bev. When they try to tell people about it, hes arrested again for using his duck powers in public. 
Pg22: next day
Howard has been thrown in the Cleveland Zoo, muzzled and naked!

References: 
Howard DID try to register like he said, in Civil War: Choosing Sides. Continuity! 

Howard the Duck v3 #4
February, 2008

Appearances: 
Howard the Duck, Beverly Switzler, M.O.D.O.T., She-Hulk(Jen Walters), Lance Pierce(Glory Hound), George W. Bush

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg20: same day as end of last issue
The media have gathered around Howards cage at the zoo, and Beverly finds a way to free him. Lance arrives dressed as the Glory Hound, fakes an anthrax scare, and Bev knocks him out. They take of for the secret A.I.M. base and the media follows. The President arrives to make a speech, but everyone is already gone. Howard and the media arrive at the A.I.M. base and M.O.D.O.T. is exposed. The President arrives and declares Howard an American citizen as thanks for getting him out of a TV appearance. The Twin Barrels are arrested and M.O.D.O.T. sulks. 
Pg21-pg22: next day
She-Hulk clears Howards name in court using the Presidential Pardon from yesterday and Howards Registration papers. Yay!

References: 
Unlike the other fake celebrities, this is clearly the President. 

If anyone didnt pick up this mini, you should get the trade. Its lotsafun!TM

-Daron Jensen

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Feb 24, 2008 6:06 am 
By dimadick

"Whos in the Great Lakes Avengers post-Civil War, anyway? "

Nobody. Their last appearance that I know of was "Deadpool/GLI:Summer Fun Spectacular" #1 (September, 2007) and had them operating as the Great Lakes Initiative, the Wisconsin division of the Initiative. 

As for membership, the latest known line-up included Big Bertha, Doorman, Flatman, Mister Immortal, Squirrel Girl and Tippy Toe.

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Thread 23

Subject: X-23: Target X 1-6

Feb 24, 2008 8:05 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

X-23: Target X #1
February, 2007

Appearances: 
X-23, Captain America, Daredevil, Sarah Kinney-FB, Martin Sutter-FB, Zander Rice-FB, Kimura-FB, Megan-FB, Debbie-FB, Desmond Alexander-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1
X-23 wakes up wearing an X-Men jacket, and shes interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg2-pg8-FB: four years ago, give or take(between X-23 #2 & X-23 #3)
X-23 goes through some final training while Kinney, Sutter, Rice, & Kimura watch. She does well, so its decided to prepare her for the candidate Johnson assignment. 
Pg9
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg10-pg18-FB: two years ago, give or take (between X-23 #6 pg21 & pg22)
X-23 is next to the dead Sarah Kinney when shes attacked by Facility troops. She defeats them and is attacked by her handler Kimura. She escapes. 
Pg19pn1-pg19pn3(of 7)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg19pn4-pg21pn1-FB: day 1
Megan wakes up from a nightmare then goes to school while X-23 watches from afar. 
Pg21pn2-FB: day 3
X-23 watches Megan. 
Pg21pn3-FB: day 5
X-23 watches Megan. 
Pg21pn4-FB: day 8
X-23 watches Desmond. 
Pg21pn5-FB: day 11
X-23 watches Desmond. 
Pg21pn6-FB: day 14
X-23 watches Desmond. 
Pg21pn7-FB: day 16
X-23 watches Debbie. 
Pg21pn8-FB: day 18
X-23 watches Debbie. 
Pg21pn9(of 9)-FB: day 21
X-23 watches Debbie and Desmond. 
Pg22pn1-pg22pn3-FB: day 22
X-23 knocks on Debbies door. 
Pg22pn4-pg22pn5(of 5)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg23-pg24-FB: day 22
Debbie explains to Desmond that Laura(X-23) is going to live with them. Shes Megans cousin, Sarah was Debbies sister. Megan meets Megan, and she explains that shes the one who killed her kidnapper. 
Pg25
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 

References: 
Megan and Debbie were previously seen in the first X-23 miniseries, issue 4. 

X-23: Target X #2
February, 2007

Appearances: 
X-23(Laura Kinney), Captain America, Daredevil, Nick Fury-FB-VO, Dazzler(Allison Blaire)-FB-BTS, Megan-FB, Debbie-FB, Desmond Alexander-FB, Kimura-FB-BTS

Synopsis: 
Pg1
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg2-pg6pn1-FB: between X-23 #3 pg11 & pg12
Nick Fury has sent Captain America to stop an assassination attempt on candidate Johnson, but Caps too late; everyones already dead except one girl. He takes her outside to an ambulance, where she kills the medics and escapes. 
Pg6pn2-pg6pn5(of 5)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg7-pg19-FB: day 22
X-23 and Megan go to school, and they end up getting suspended. They steal the principals car and spend the day having fun, ending in a Dazzler concert. 
Pg20-pg21pn4-FB: day 23
After talking about Sarahs death, X-23 and Megan return home. 
Pg21pn5-pg21pn6(of 6)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg22-pg23-FB: day 23
Desmond is given some of X-23s trigger scent. He works for the Facility!

References: 
Fury is heard and not seen in the Flashback, giving him a VO. 

Desmond calls Kimura at the end of the issue, but shes not seen or heard, and its not even revealed until next issue, giving her a BTS. 

X-23: Target X #3
February, 2007

Appearances: 
X-23(Laura Kinney), Captain America, Daredevil, Zander Rice-FB, Wilson Fisk-FB, Fade(Dilorenzo)-FB, Kimura-FB, Megan-FB, Debbie-FB, Desmond Alexander-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1pn1-pg1pn4(of 5)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg1pn5-pg2pn2-FB: seven years ago
X-23 is tortured by Zander Rice. 
Pg2pn3-FB: six years ago
X-23 is tortured by Zander Rice. 
Pg2pn4-pg2pn7(of 7)-FB: five years ago
X-23 is tortured by Zander Rice. 
Pg3-FB: four years ago
Zander Rice watches as X-23 kills a dog. The trigger scent works! 
Pg4pn1-pg4pn3(of 4)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg4pn4-pg14-FB: three years ago
The Kingpin negotiates a deal with Fade for the release of his niece Samantha. Little does Fade know that Samantha is actually X-23! While shes killing him, the Kingpin and Zander Rice talk about future jobs for X-23 with Kimura in the background.
Pg15-pg16pn1(of 6)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg16pn2-pg22-FB: day 24(same day as X-Men 116)
While X-23 and Megan are on their way home, Desmond puts some trigger scent in Debbies tea. X-23 notices some store front televisions, which are showing Xavier outing himself as a mutant. When they get home, Megan accidentally knocks Desmond with the door, spilling the tea all over him and her. Outside, X-23 has extended her claws

References: 
There arent any new appearances of the X-Men here, theyre just reminder scenes to place the issue in relation to the time frame. 

X-23: Target X #4
May, 2007

Appearances: 
X-23(Laura Kinney), Captain America, Daredevil, Kimura-FB, Zander Rice-FB, Megan-FB, Debbie-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg2-pg9pn2-FB: day 24
X-23 kills Desmond and chases Debbie & Megan. Megan knows about the trigger scent, so they hide in the bathroom under the shower. The water washes away the trigger scent and X-23 calms down. 
Pg9pn3-pg9pn4(of 4)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg10-pg12-FB: 3 years ago, 5 days after X-23 gets adamantium claws(between X-23 #2 pg18 & pg19)
X-23 is introduced to Kimura, her new handler, by Zander Rice. 
Pg13-FB: following X-23 #2
X-23 has already killed her sensei, Kimura drags her away while Zander watches. 
Pg14-FB: between pg3 & pg4 of X-23 #4
Kimura greets X-23 on her return from the A.I.M. mission. 
Pg15pn1-pg15pn3(of 4)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg15pn4-pg23-FB: day 24
X-23 hides Megan and Debbie in the basement, then kills the attacking Facility troops. Kimura arrives and breaks X-23s neck. 

References: 
Im starting to get confused with all of these back-and-forth Flashbacks

X-23: Target X #5
June, 2007

Appearances: 
X-23(Laura Kinney), Captain America, Daredevil, Kimura-FB, Megan-FB, Debbie-FB, Sarah Kinney-FB-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1pn1-pg1pn2(of 4)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg1pn3-pg10pn4-FB: day 24
Kimura starts to torture Megan while X-23 watches, handcuffed to Kimura. 
Pg10pn5-pg10pn6(of 6)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg11-pg12-FB: day 24
X-23 has cut off her own hand to escape, and shes handcuffed Kimura to a pipe. She gets Megan and Debbie out of the house. 
Pg13pn1
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg13pn2-pg13pn4-FB: Day 24
Megan grabs some clothes. 
Pg13pn5(of 5)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg14-pg15-FB: day 24
X-23 blows up the house. 
Pg16pn1-pg16pn3(of 5)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg16pn4-pg16pn5-FB: day 25
On their way out of town, Debbie tells X-23 a story. 
Pg17pn1-pg17pn2(of 7)-FB-FB: following X-23 #4 pg18
Sarah tells Debbie about Laura. 
Pg17pn3-pg18-FB: day 25
X-23 makes some fake passports for Debbie and Megan. 
Pg19-pg22-FB: day 26
X-23 sends Debbie and Megan into Canada and says goodbye. 
Pg23pn1(of 5)
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg23pn2-pg23pn5-FB: some time later, day 1
X-23 arrives at the Xavier Institute for Higher Learning. 

References: 
Its not specified how much time passes between the Canadian Border scene and the Xavier Institute scene, which is good, because next issues FlashBacks start with a new numbering of days. Also, no X-Men appear here. 

X-23: Target X #6
July, 2007

Appearances: 
X-23(Laura Kinney), Captain America, Daredevil, Wolverine-FB, Jean Grey-FB, Emma Frost-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg2
X-23 is interrogated by Captain America & Daredevil. 
Pg3pn1(of 6)-FB: day 1
X-23 stakes out the Xavier Institute. 
Pg3pn2-FB: day 10
X-23 watches Wolverine chat with Jean Grey. 
Pg3pn3-pg21pn3(of 4)-FB: day 24
X-23 watches Emma Frost hug Wolverine while she cries, then Wolverine leaves the Institute. X-23 follows and eventually confronts him. After they fight, X-23 wants to kill them both, but Wolverine talks her out of it, and they chat. He gives her an X-Jacket, and a copy of a letter Sarah sent to him. Theyre then attacked by S.H.I.E.L.D. agents, Wolverine sends X-23 away, but shes captured by Captain America. Cap then calls Daredevil. 
Pg21pn4-pg24
Daredevil explains to Cap that he should have left X-23 with Wolverine, and that shes not responsible for all of the killing shes done. Cap taker her anyway. 
Pg25-pg28: next day, day 25
Cap explains to X-23 that hes letting her go because he doesnt want to see her being used by anyone like she was used by the Facility. So he puts her on a bus and tells her to find Wolverine. 

References: 
This leads directly into X-23 #6 pg23, which would be day 25, also. 

Jean, Emma, Logan, Captain America & Daredevil probably appear here between X-Men 126 & X-Men 128, give or take. All of this precedes X-23s first appearance in NYX, by the way, and glancing at various chronologies, it looks like this is around the ORDER 5 & 6-ish. 

As for the stuff further into the past; Cap & Fury at the Johnson assassination, I don't know. That's mixed in with stuff that happens 'four years ago' from X-Men 116, so sometime in 'Year 16'. The Arranger makes an appearance in X-23 #3, which is a part of that scene, and the Arrangers died in Peter Parker 165. So in any case, Cap & Fury should be placed around books set before Peter Parker 165. 

And heres what the two minis would look like in X-23s chronology: 

X-23/LAURA KINNEY
X-23 1 
X-23 2 (1-9)
*X-23: TX 3 (1:5-2:2)-FB
*X-23: TX 3 (2:3)-FB
*X-23: TX 3 (2:4-2:7)-FB
X-23 2 (10-16)
X-23 6-FB 
X-23 2 (17-18) 
*X-23: TX 3 (3)-FB
*X-23: TX 4 (10-12)-FB
X-23 2 (19-22)
*X-23: TX 4 (13)-FB
*X-23: TX 1 (2-8)-FB
X-23 3 (1-11)
*X-23: TX 2 (2-6:1)-FB
X-23 3 (12-14) 
*X-23: TX 3 (4:4-14)-FB
X-23 3 (15-22) 
X-23 4-FB 
X-23 4 (1-3)
*X-23: TX 4 (14)-FB
X-23 4 (4-22)
X-23 5 (1-22) 
X-23 6 (1-22) 
*X-23: TX 1 (10-18)-FB
*X-23: TX 1 (19:4-22:3)-FB
*X-23: TX 1 (23-24)-FB
*X-23: TX 2 (7-21:4)-FB
*X-23: TX 3 (16:2-22)-FB
*X-23: TX 4 (2-9:2)-FB
*X-23: TX 4 (15:4-23)-FB
*X-23: TX 5-FB
*X-23: TX 6-FB
*X-23: TX 1
*X-23: TX 2
*X-23: TX 3
*X-23: TX 4
*X-23: TX 5
*X-23: TX 6
X-23 6 (23)
{NYX 3}


-Daron Jensen

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Thread 24

Subject: New Avengers Military giveaway no.5

Feb 24, 2008 5:24 pm 
By Jason Doty

New Avengers: The Spirit Of America (AAFES no.5 Military Giveaway)

Characters: Captain America in video recording, Iron Man, Wonder Man, Black Widow, Wolverine, Cyclops.

One Day. Captain America records a message to Iron Man after he visits an Army Regiment stationed overseas. PFC Mathews tells him that her brother is part of the National Guard and he believes A.I.M has infiltrated his communications department at Los Angeles Air Force Base. He asks Iron Man to investigate even though they have not seen eye to eye recently. He also records a message to Wolverine worried that A.I.M might retaliate for PFC Mathews for fingering them. He asks Wolverine to protect her.

One day, After the death of Captain America. Iron Man views the message left to him. (pgs 1-2, 21p4-22) Elsewhere at the X-Mansion, Wolverine is viewing his message when Cyclops enters and asks if this is New Avengers business and that they hardly see him anymore. Wolverine smiles. (pg. 3)

Later, Iron Man and Wonder Man arrive at Los Angeles AFB and are greeted by the Black Widow who has arrived first. Iron Man announces himself as the Director of SHIELD and asks to see the director. The director comes and Iron Man informs him of the situation. While he and Iron Man talk, Wonder Man and the Black Widow are taken to the communications lab where they meet with Private Mathews. (pgs. 5-6)

Oversees, Wolverine and Cyclops parachute from the Blackbird into the center of a convoy that is being attacked by local insurgents. The insurgents are using advanced weaponry, but Cyclops buys them some time with his optic blast. Wolverine asks for Private Mathews who is part of the convoy. Wolverine explains that they have been sent to keep her alive. (pgs. 7-11)

Back stateside, Iron Man tries to access the base security system, but is attacked by A.I.M agents who the director is working with. The fight crashes through to where Wonder Man and Black Widow are, and with their help and the aid of Private Mathews, A.I.M. is defeated. (pgs. 12-15)

Oversees, Wolverine, Cyclops, and the Army unit defeat the A.I.M. unit assigned to kill Private Mathews, but there are several wounded. The X-Men arrange for her to speak to her brother who swap tales of their recent adventures. Cyclops and Wolverine evacuate the wounded. (pgs. 16-21p3)

Continuity clues: The Captain America video was probably recorded during the Civil War. Iron Man is Director of SHIELD, It does not mention that Wonder Man and Black Widow are part of the Mighty Avengers, so either before they form or right after. Cyclops and Wolverine are both at the mansion, so before Messiah Complex. The tapes are sent to both, so probably after the New Avengers go underground.

			*	*	*

Feb 24, 2008 8:19 pm 
By jephyork
Director

Thanks, Jason! One comment, though:

>>>
It does not mention that Wonder Man and Black Widow are part of the Mighty Avengers, so either before they form or right after.
<<<

Watch out for that whole "lack of evidence does not equal evidence to the contrary" thing...

-Jeph!

			*	*	*

Thread 25

Subject: Hulk vs. Fin Fang Foom 1

Feb 24, 2008 1:45 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Hulk vs. Fin Fang Foom #1
February, 2008

Appearances: 
Hulk(Bruce Banner), Fin Fang Foom

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg2pn1(of 5)
The Hulk wanders around the Arctic.
Pg2pn2-pg2pn5-FB: shortly before pg1
The Hulk is being chased y the military in Antarctica and is hit with a missile, knocking him under some ice and under water. 
Pg3-pg22
The Hulk collapses, turning back into Bruce Banner. Later, Bruce wakes up in a science station and is questioned about what hes doing in the middle of nowhere. Meanwhile, some scientists finds and accidentally wake up a giant green creature thats under the ice. One of the men makes it back to base, and when they go to check it out, the creature is gone. When they return to base they find a man has been killed, so one of the scientists accuses Bruce. After a scuffle between the scientists, Bruce is accidentally hit, and he turns into the Hulk. Another scientist tears his skin off, revealing Fin Fang Foom underneath! He grows to an enormous size and he & the Hulk fight. The Hulk swings Fin Fang Foom by his tail and throws him to the moon. Then the Hulk leaps away, himself. 

References: 
Fin Fang Foom mentions that hes been asleep in the Arctic for centuries, having fought someone who claimed to be a Thunder God then taking refuge there.(is this supposed to be a reference to the Midgard Serpent?) This doesnt exactly line up with the Fin Fang Foom that crashed in China, whose rings were used by the Mandarin, and who eventually showed up in Iron Man. Theres even a Handbook page in this issue, and it doesnt say anything about the Arctic. Maybe this is a second Fin Fang Foom, perhaps the same one seen in Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E.?(the bio page also doesnt say anything about that, so it may be the intention that there are two different Fin Fang Fooms. One landed in China, another somewhere else that fought Thor and ended up in Antarctica) 

As for the Hulk, this is billed as an untold tale. Hes being chased by the military and refers to himself in the third person. Im not the best with Silver Age Hulk continuity, but it seems this could go pretty much anywhere. Any ideas?

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 24, 2008 9:32 am 
By dimadick

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
Fin Fang Foom mentions that hes been asleep in the Arctic for centuries, having fought someone who claimed to be a Thunder God then taking refuge there.(is this supposed to be a reference to the Midgard Serpent?) This doesnt exactly line up with the Fin Fang Foom that crashed in China, whose rings were used by the Mandarin, and who eventually showed up in Iron Man. Theres even a Handbook page in this issue, and it doesnt say anything about the Arctic. Maybe this is a second Fin Fang Foom, perhaps the same one seen in Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E.?(the bio page also doesnt say anything about that, so it may be the intention that there are two different Fin Fang Fooms. One landed in China, another somewhere else that fought Thor and ended up in Antarctica) 
<<<

Interesting, Fin Fang Foom changing into human form. According to Iron Man #274 (November, 1991) the other Makluans/Kakarantharans who landed with him learned to do that and blended into humanity. Fin being the only one left in dragon form for some reason. Perhaps he is a slow learner, or the "Fin" here was one of the other Makluans.

			*	*	*

Feb 24, 2008 4:11 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

So you're saying the human form thing supports there being two Fin Fang Fooms? The one we've known and loved for years that never learned how, and then this one? And I suppose that it's just unfortunate for us that the 'Fin Fang Foom' name is the 'John Smith' name of the Makluans...

If that works, then: 

FIN FANG FOOM II [MAKLUAN]
HVSFFF 1
NW: AOH 1
NW: AOH 2

And in any case, [MAKLUAN] should be added to Fin Fang Fomm's listing, like so: 

FIN FANG FOOM [MAKLUAN] 
IM 274-FB
IM 272-FB
{ST 89}
...

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 24, 2008 5:18 pm 
By Somebody
Director

It'll be Fin Fang Foom III. Like I said in the Nextwave #1-6 thread FFF2 should be a "See Midgard Serpent" note.

			*	*	*

Feb 25, 2008 2:03 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Oh yeah, that's right. Well then, this goes even further into establishing there's two Fin Fang Fooms, this one claims to have fought Thor. 

FIN FANG FOOM II 
See Midgard Serpent

MIDGARD SERPENT/JORMUNGAND 
*HVSFFF 1
T 272
T 277
T 278
T 325/2
T 327
T 328
T 379
T 380
T 389
T 486
T 487
T 488
A3 1
*NW: AOH 1
*NW: AOH 2

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 26

Subject: Mystic Arcana: Black Knight 1

Feb 25, 2008 3:33 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Mystic Arcana: Black Knight 1
September, 2007

Appearances: 
Ian McNee, Morgan LeFay

Synopsis: 
Pg1
Ian McNee calls up Avalon through a magic mirror to chat with Morgan LeFay. 

References: 
Continued from Magic 1/3, to be continued in the third story this issue!

Mystic Arcana: Black Knight 1/2

Appearances: 
Black Knight(Sir Percy), his horse, Merlin, Arthur Pendragon, Mordred, Lady Evaine(Percys mom)-FB, Gwythr-FB, Percys dad-FB, Orphelus-FB-BTS, Tyrannus-FB, Hades-FB, Gwynn-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg4pn1(of 2): 6th Century, Avalon
While Camelot burns, the Black Knight meets Merlin, who tells him Arthur Pendragon still lives. The Black Knight makes his way acroos the countryside just in time to watch Arthur killed. He goes nuts while Mordred watches. 
Pg4pn2-pg7pn2(of 4)-FB: years ago
Lady Evaine takes her son Percy into the woods to meet some Druids and pray to Gwynn when Gwythr arrives and says that Percy will be a warrior. His dad starts to train him in swordfighting. 
Pg7pn3-pg13-FB: years later
Percy has already been knighted when Merlin appears. He tells him about Mordred and Morgan LeFay, and that he should go to Camelot! When he arrives hes already wearing the Black Knight armor. A few days later after some fighting, King Arthur knights the Black Knight. Later, the Black Knight pays Merlin a visit, who takes him to the Pool of Blood.(previously seen in Tomb of Dracula 15!) Usually the place is guarded by Orphelus, but Merlin has distracted him. There Percy forges a sword, a shield, a staff, and a chalice, all ebony. Merlin makes him choose one, and he chooses the sword. Merlin then makes the other three objects vanish. 
Pg14-pg18pn3-FB: later
After months of adventures, the Black Knight one day fights Tyrannus. During the fight Hades appears, and THEY fight. The Black Knight drives them both off, and while hes bleeding all over the ground Gwynn the Hunter Spirit arrives and they chat. Gwynn heals him and leaves. 
Pg18pn4-pg22: 6th Century, Avalon
As the Black Knight goes nuts, Mordred prepares to kill him. Merlin casts a spell so the Black Knight can see the future, and Mordred stabs him while hes distracted. Merlin appears and Mordred runs off. Merlin chats with the dying Black Knight, then disappears, as the Black Knight dissolves, turning into a younger version of himself, having become one with the Earth. He wanders off, knowing his spirit will again one day wear the Black Knight armor, and pass on the mantle to a descendant. 

References: 
Any Black Knight fans want to take a stab at where all of this goes? King Arthur fans? Anybody? 

Mystic Arcana: Black Knight 1/3

Appearances: 
Ian McNee, Morgan LeFay

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg3
Ian McNee has gone to Avalon to get the Ebon Rose while Morgan LeFay watches. 
Pg4-FB: a long damn time ago
Merlin and Morgan LeFay fight!
Pg5-pg10
Ian appears through Morgans mirror, they chat, and she gives him the Ebon Rose. 

References: 
To be continued in Scarlet Witch!

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 27

Subject: February call for analyses

A little late this time, but better late than never. Here's the latest call. If you'd like to sign up, please let us know. And if I messed up any assignments, you know the drill.  

Completed stories (as of 1/30/08)
Annihilation: Conquest  Quasar #1-4 (Somebody)
Annihilation: Conquest  Wraith #1-4 (Somebody)
Daredevil: Battlin Jack Murdock #1-4 (JD)

Future stuff
Annihilation: Conquest #1-6 (Somebody)
Black Panther Annual #1 [if any present-day content exists] (Col_Fury)
ClanDestine v2 #1-5 (Don)
Daredevil v2 #101-105
Daredevil v2 #106
Daredevil: Blood of the Tarantula
Dead of Night Featuring Man-Thing #1-4
Foolkiller v2 #1-5
Franklin Richards: Spring Break!
Ghost Rider v5 #20-23 
House of M: Avengers #1-5
Immortal Iron Fist #10-14 (Don)
Immortal Iron Fist: Orson Randall and the Green Mist of Death (Don)
Logan #1-3 (Col_Fury)
Moon Knight v5 #14-19
Nova v4 #8-12 (Somebody)
Punisher v7 #55-56 (Col_Fury)
Punisher War Journal v2 #18
Runaways v2 #25-30 (JD)
Spider-Man Family v2 #8
Wolverine: Origins #21-25 (Col_Fury)

Any help that people can provide would be greatly appreciated. As always, thanks to all who post on this forum!

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 06, 2008 2:02 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Daredevil Annual v2 #1 is up, and so are the first four issues of 
Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin #1-6, with some TOS issues thrown in for fun. 

Also, you can sign me up for the Black Panther Annual.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 06, 2008 7:56 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Sorry, Fury. I should've updated those. Actually, Enter the Mandarin #5-6 are still on the "future" list.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 06, 2008 8:14 am 
By TheDeuce

maybe i'm missing something, but why do i never see Captain America on these?

			*	*	*

Feb 06, 2008 8:39 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Because I collect Cap, as well as many other titles that never appear in the monthly calls, which are primarily my calls for assistance with the Marvel Calendar. I contribute my own analyses of titles I collect (sans character lists) in the Calendar.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 06, 2008 3:05 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

Apart from the Calendar, many of us would appreciate an analysis of Captain America, if you care to provide one. You're not limited to analyses of the books in Paul's calendar call.


watching: julio jones commits!

			*	*	*

Feb 06, 2008 3:43 pm 
By TheDeuce

hm...i've always been a little shy about doing an analysis, being as i've never done one. is there anything outside of a synopsis and a list of character appearances that''s required? i'm not familiar at all with the really old CA appearances (WWII, which is shown in lots of flashbacks in v5). if i'd need to place those in the characters chronology it might be a while longer before i start cranking them out for v5, but otherwise i'd be more than happy to finally really contribute something.

			*	*	*

Feb 06, 2008 5:55 pm 
By ADMINISTRATOR

http://www.chronologyproject.com/faq.htm#Q19

			*	*	*

Feb 06, 2008 6:55 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Actually, Enter the Mandarin #5-6 are still on the "future" list.
<<<

Darn typos! Yeah, sorry about that. 


TheDeuce wrote:
>>>
I'm not familiar at all with the really old CA appearances (WWII, which is shown in lots of flashbacks in v5). if i'd need to place those in the characters chronology it might be a while longer before i start cranking them out for v5, but otherwise i'd be more than happy to finally really contribute something.
<<<

While chronology placement suggestions are appriciated, they're not required. Sometimes, just providing an analysis will start a discussion where the placements are hammered out. So yeah, feel free to analyse whatever you want!

And specifiaclly, if you're concerned about WWII placements, I have your back on that one. 

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 17, 2008 6:15 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

In regards to Omega the Unknown v2 #1-10, from an interview at Newsarama last July: 

Newsarama wrote:
>>>
NRAMA: Sowhat is your version of Omega, exactly? Is it a retelling, a recreation, a sequel?

JL: Its a recreation. I think thats the better word for it. Im not interested  I dont have it in me to fuss over matters of continuity. All the characters  well, the two character who mattered most in that story  were killed, if you believe and obey the earlier stories that were told. 

Im not letting myself care about that. Though its a Marvel comic, Im not writing it into the Marvel Universe where Omega existed before, and therefore trying to make some labored explanation as to why this story is happening again, or happening differently. Im just taking this brilliant fund of material, and transmuting it into something else. 

NRAMA: You talk about filling in the gaps. Are you trying to weave around sequences from the original book, or are you trying to do something else?

JL: There are a few places where I go for very direction quotations from the original, and most of those are right up front. For me, the original Omega the Unknown #1 is a rather holy text. You know, the perfect comic book. So I utilize it heavily. And then my Omega grows away from that point slowly but steadily  corresponding to the slow but inevitable loss of interest through the original ten issues that were originally published. 

I dont avoid a few pieces of direct quotation. Im trying to do justice to the enormous power the original story had for me as reader, and for my friends, when we were 14 years old. To us, it was as good and important a comic as any origin story wed ever read! It was Superman, it was Batman, it was something totally legendary. 

So, Im treating it as a legendary text is so often treated in the comic-book world, which is to say those tales are told and re-told in new and strange ways precisely because they were so good. 

I wouldnt want to make too direct a comparison, but if youre familiar with James Sturms Unstable Molecules, dealing with the early days of the Fantastic Four, you might almost say that Omega is in that vein. In other words, I assume  perhaps absurdly  but I assume for my purposes that Omega is a canonical text, and therefore that anyone would be excited to see it retold in a strange and different way. 
<<<

Which basically says this is a remake of the originals. Not a continuation, but rather a re-imagining. 

In other words, I think it's safe to take it off the Call List, Paul. 

And for anyone not reading this, pick it up in trade. It's strange... but good! I'm enjoying it, at least.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 17, 2008 1:02 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Thanks, Fury. I removed Omega and your recent submissions from the call list. I also decided to keep collecting Punisher War Journal through issue #17, so that's been dropped too.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 17, 2008 9:26 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

You couldn't stay away from Howard Chaykin, huh?  I can't blame you, because I can't either. 

Oh, and a warning folks: I'm on vacation next week with only a couple of things on my to-do list, so I may do some analyses on some of the older books to clean up the call list...

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 24, 2008 6:42 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

JLH has decided to stop doing analyses. Many thanks to you, JLH, for all the help you've given us in answering the call in the past!

If anyone would like to take over his titles -- Annihilation and Ghost Rider -- please let me know.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 24, 2008 6:59 pm 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

It looks like Col_Fury has been busy! Thanks, man!  

Thanks also to Jason Doty.

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 24, 2008 7:55 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
JLH has decided to stop doing analyses. Many thanks to you, JLH, for all the help you've given us in answering the call in the past!

If anyone would like to take over his titles -- Annihilation and Ghost Rider -- please let me know.
<<<

I got about a third of the way into the Phyla & Wraith minis, I might as well take them back again, and Conquest-proper, since I'm following it.

Incidentally, I'm treating Nova #8-12 (and the limited "real" scenes from Annual 1) as one arc, since it's all basically continuous, linked by his quest to find a transmode cure (& his deteriorating condition from the TM virus) and get back to Conquest.

			*	*	*

Feb 25, 2008 1:28 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
It looks like Col_Fury has been busy!
<<<

And that's how you know my vacation has started.  


Somebody wrote:
>>>
Incidentally, I'm treating Nova #8-12 (and the limited "real" scenes from Annual 1) as one arc,
<<<

So you're saying it should be listed something like

Nova v4 #8-12 & Annual 1(Somebody)

under Future Stuff. Right? 


Somebody wrote:
>>>
I got about a third of the way into the Phyla & Wraith minis, I might as well take them back again, and Conquest-proper, since I'm following it.
<<<

You're welcome to them. I bought all of them, and I'm picking up Conquest Proper, but the only issues I've read are the Nova series. I just haven't gotten around to reading the others, and I probably won't until the whole thing has wrapped up. *shrug* I'm really enjoying Nova, but I fell behind on my reading over the holidays so I may as well wait until the whole thing's out so I don't have to wait for the last issue. I guess it's almost like waiting for the trade... but not.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 25, 2008 7:54 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Somebody wrote:
>>>
I got about a third of the way into the Phyla & Wraith minis, I might as well take them back again, and Conquest-proper, since I'm following it.
<<<

That's great, Somebody. Thanks much!

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Feb 25, 2008 9:52 am 
By JD

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
Future stuff
Mythos: Captain America (Col_Fury?)
<<<

This one-shot has been cancelled (and will probably be resolicited later). Is any of the Mythos books canon anyway ?

			*	*	*

Feb 25, 2008 11:13 am 
By Somebody
Director

JD wrote:
>>>
Is any of the Mythos books canon anyway ?
<<<

No, none of the Mythos books are canon. They're loose retellings of their origins, incorporating details from other sources (movies, cartoons, etc) and from Jenkins' own brain.

			*	*	*

Feb 25, 2008 8:18 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

Paul Bourcier wrote:
>>>
JLH has decided to stop doing analyses. Many thanks to you, JLH, for all the help you've given us in answering the call in the past!

If anyone would like to take over his titles -- Annihilation and Ghost Rider -- please let me know.
<<<

Unfortunately, I also am at a point where I need to stop doing analysis for the Calender. Life's just been too crazy lately, the only thing I find time to keep up with on the Chronology Project is my updating of the Checklist. Maybe things will change in the future, as I do enjoy doing analysis...

I see Col. Fury did analysis for "Mystic Arcana: Black Knight" and "Mystic Arcana: Scarlet Witch". Didn't you also need analysis for "Mystic Arcana: Sister Grimm"? If Col. Fury can't provide analysis for that one, then I can probably do it, (as I did agree to handle that one a while back).

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

Feb 25, 2008 8:23 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

JD took you off the hook back in November for Sister Grimm. Three cheers for JD!

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 25, 2008 8:37 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

Ah, so that takes care of "Mystic Arcana"! Good job, JD!  

If I find time, Paul, I'll let you know if there's any comics I can do analysis for...

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

			*	*	*

Feb 26, 2008 2:04 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Eric analyzed Books of Doom #1 a while back, but there's almost nothing in the present day in the series. Issues 1-5 are the history of Doom, narrated by a Doombot, and that's it. Issue 6 (1-18) finish up the Doombot narration, and the last four pages are the only 'now' portion with other characters. A calendar entry would look like this: 

Books of Doom #1
Books of Doom #2
Books of Doom #3
Books of Doom #4
Books of Doom #5
Books of Doom #6
One day. A reporter interviews a Doombot and some Latverian prisoners on the history of Victor Von Doom. When they're finished, Boris locks her up in the dungeon, never to be seen again. Snowy mountaintops in Latveria. 

And that's every placement clue available for the current portion. It was a very good series and I'd analyse it myself, but I don't have many of the issues that have Flashbacks to Doom's early days. I have next to no idea what would be repeated information. It would be like trying to analyse Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin without the corresponding Tales of Suspense issues. Books of Doom is on the Checklist so we know we still need to get to it, but I think it's safe to take it off your Calendar call list. If you trust the above synopsis, that is. 

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Ghost Rider is on volume 6 now.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 26, 2008 8:28 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

I've done what I can for the completed stuff. There may be more from me once the new books come out tomorrow, we'll see what I can get to. 

Also, and you can put me down for Logan #1-3.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 27, 2008 7:47 am 
By Paul Bourcier
Director

Okay, I'm updating the call, probably for the last time before a new call is posted this weekend. Thanks everyone.

Fury, I'm placing Books of Doom on January 31 of Year 24 because of the snow and because the date was looking lonely .

Paul B.

			*	*	*

Thread 28

Subject: Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears 1-6

Feb 28, 2008 8:08 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears #1
April, 2007

Appearances: 
Travis Parham, Caleb, Reagan and his men; all die

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: the Civil War
Travis Parham fights in the Civil War and is injured. Hes found by Caleb, a former slave, who patches him up. Travis hangs around Calebs place for a couple of years to help out, and one day he finds a couple of skulls. When he touches one, he sees some pretty terrifying images. Caleb snaps him out of it, and urges Travis to stay away from the skulls. A few years later once the war is over, Travis decides to head out west. As he leaves, however, Reagan and his men are waiting

References: 
This particular Ghost Rider will become active in 1867. This issue ends in 1865, next issue picks up two years later. Depending on when the first Night Rider became active, this may be the first Ghost Rider or the second. 

Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears #2
May, 2007

Appearances: 
Travis Parham, Ghost Rider(Caleb), Caleb-FB, Reagan and his men; all die

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg5pn3: 1867
Travis returns to Calebs place to find some rednecks living there. He kills one and interrogates the other. 
Pg5pn4-pg11pn2-FB: 1865
Reagan and his men kill Caleb and his family. 
Pg11pn3-pg22
Travis kills the other guy and starts to hunt Reagan and his men. Meanwhile, the Ghost Rider watches

Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears #3
June, 2007

Appearances: 
Travis Parham, Ghost Rider(Caleb), Reagan and his men; all die

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22
While Travis tracks down Reagan and his men, theyre followed by the Ghost Rider, who starts to kill them one by one. 

Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears #4
July, 2007

Appearances: 
Travis Parham, Ghost Rider(Caleb), Reagan and his men; all die

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22
The Ghost Rider kills Reagan and the rest of his men. Travis finally catches up and confronts the Ghost Rider, who tells him to forget about the whole mess. Later, the ghosts of Reagan and his men start to surround a town

Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears #5
August, 2007

Appearances: 
Travis Parham, Ghost Rider(Caleb), the ghosts of Reagan and his men

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22
Travis comes to a town where everyone has been killed by the ghosts of Reagan and his men. He goes to the next town to warn them of danger, but no one listens. Shortly afterwards, the town is invaded by the ghosts of Reagan and his men. Travis tries to fight them, but he gets his arm ripped off instead. Then, the Ghost Rider shows up.
Pg18pn2-pg18pn3-FB(between GR: TOT 4 pg19 & pg20)
Reagan and his men make a deal to return to Earth.

Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears #6
September, 2007

Appearances: 
Travis Parham, Ghost Rider(Caleb), the ghosts of Reagan and his men

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22
After a confrontation, the Ghost Rider is chained, and he turns back into Caleb. He frees himself and sends Reagan and his men back into hell. He then tells Travis that hes damned. Years later, Travis is seen drinking alone in a bar, still with one arm. 
Pg14pn4-FB
Caleb accepts a deal to be the Ghost Rider. 

And thats it, really. 

Caleb was given the power of the Ghost Rider by his African gods, and it was called a god of Vengeance. He has a flaming skull just like the other Spirits of Vengeance, but he rides a horse instead of a motorcycle. 

Some suggestions: 

PARHAM, TRAVIS
GR: TOT 1
GR: TOT 2
GR: TOT 3
GR: TOT 4
GR: TOT 5
GR: TOT 6

GHOST RIDER/CALEB
GR: TOT 1
GR: TOT 2-FB
GR: TOT 6-FB
GR: TOT 2
GR: TOT 3
GR: TOT 4
GR: TOT 5
GR: TOT 6

Depending on when the first Night Rider started being the Night Rider/Ghost Rider, this would either be the first or second Ghost Rider. Was the Night Rider active during or before the Civil War? If so, Caleb would be GHOST RIDER II/CALEB. If the Night Rider became active after 1867, then his listing should be changed to GHOST RIDER II, see Night Rider.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Feb 28, 2008 8:51 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

Well, the Ghost Rider seen here certainly can't be tied in with the "Noble Kale" bloodline...And I doubt this is supposed to be Zarathos as well...

I wonder if this Ghost Rider spirit has his origin in Heaven or Hell...

By the way, this was an enjoyable mini-series, (it just has no relevance to the other Ghost Rider stories).

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Feb 28, 2008 9:37 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Kevin W. wrote:
>>>
I wonder if this Ghost Rider spirit has his origin in Heaven or Hell...
<<<

*shrugs*

Maybe it's the same one Blaze is currently bonded to. That, being a nuMK mini'n'all...

			*	*	*

Feb 29, 2008 3:02 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Kevin W. wrote:
>>>
By the way, this was an enjoyable mini-series,It was! 
<<<

As it turns out, I have a copy of Ghost Rider vol 1 #1! It's the only one I have of the western series, and I completely forgot I even had it, but there it is. 

It says on the first page that in the days following the war between the states, etc etc. So it looks like the Night Rider was active a good two years before this Ghist Rider was, so: 

GHOST RIDER II/CALEB

And of course, the others would be bumped up a numeration each.

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 29

Subject: Ghost Rider v6 14-19

Feb 26, 2008 1:02 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

Ghost Rider v6 14
October, 2007

Appearances: 
Ghost Rider(Johnny Blaze), Dixie, Emmael, Vraniel, Lucifer-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg2: one day
Johnny tells Dixie his plan to fight Lucifer. 
Pg3-pg8-FB: about two months ago
The Ghost Rider fights Lucifer and comes up with a plan. 
Pg9pn1-FB: new day, not long after pg8
The Ghost Rider fights Lucifer.
Pg9pn2-FB: new day
The Ghost Rider fights Lucifer.
Pg10pn1-FB: new day
The Ghost Rider fights Lucifer.
Pg10pn2-FB: new day
The Ghost Rider fights Lucifer.
Pg11-pg13-FB: new day
The Ghost Rider fights Lucifer.
Pg14-pg16-FB: new day, not long before pg1
The Ghost Rider fights Lucifer.
Pg17-pg22: same day as pg2
Emmael and Vraniel chat in heaven, then pay a visit to a woman on Earth. 

References: 
This issue has to follow the recent Annual, as Ghost Rider is still fighting Lucifer there, and this issue starts a continuous chain that eventually ends that. 

Ghost Rider v6 15
November, 2007

Appearances: 
Ghost Rider(Johnny Blaze), Lucifer, Dixie, Emmael, Vraniel

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: day after last issue
The woman from last issue is pregnant, and gives birth to Emmael & Vraniel. Meanwhile, Lucifer has bought a football team. Ghost Rider shows up to kill him, and Lucifer reveals that hes kidnapped a bus full of kids. 

Ghost Rider v6 16
December, 2007

Appearances: 
Ghost Rider(Johnny Blaze), Lucifer, Dixie, Emmael, Vraniel

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: same day as last issue
Ghost Rider goes to look for the kids and runs into more Lucifer fragments. He kills one and chats with the other while the newly arrived Emmael and Vraniel watch. Meanwhile, Dixies truck is starting to stink. 

Ghost Rider v6 17
January, 2008

Appearances: 
Ghost Rider(Johnny Blaze), Lucifer, Dixie, Emmael, Vraniel

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg22: same day as last issue
Ghost Rider and Lucifer chat while Emmael and Vraniel watch. Ghost Rider takes off to rescue the kids and the angels help, leaving Lucifer tied up. Meanwhile, Dixies truck continues to stink. 

Ghost Rider v6 18
February, 2008

Appearances: 
Ghost Rider(Johnny Blaze), Lucifer, Dixie, Emmael, Vraniel, Roxxane Simpson-FB, Zadkiel-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg15pn3: same day as last issue
Ghost Rider calls up Dixie and tells her to get ready, then he and the angels take off for the football stadium. They confront Lucifer and Ghost Rider discovers that hes really an angel. Emmael is killed by the penance stare. 
Pg15pn4-FB: Ghost Riders origin
Roxanne prays to God and Zadkiel shows up. 
Pg16pn1-FB: Ghost Riders origin
Johnny Blaze is bonded to the Ghost Rider. 
Pg16pn2-pg17pn1: now
Ghost Rider and Lucifer chat. 
Pg17pn2-FB
Recap of current volume 6 & 7. 
Pg17pn3-pg17pn4-FB
Recap of current volume issue 1. 
Pg17pn5-FB-FB: just before current volume issue 1
Lucifer finds out about Greexixs escape route from hell. 
Pg18pn1-pg18pn2(of 5)-FB
Recap of current volume issue 1
Pg18pn3-pg22
Vraniel kills himself, and Ghost Rider kills Lucifer. 

Ghost Rider v6 19
March, 2008

Appearances: 
Ghost Rider(Johnny Blaze), Lucifer, Dixie, Crash Simpson-FB

Synopsis: 
Pg1-pg20pn1: same day as last issue
Ghost Rider kills the Lucifer fragment he left tied up, and Dixie kills the Lucifer fragment shes been watching.(its what was stinking up her truck) She accidentally dies, but Lucifer is no longer on Earth, all his fragments are gone. 
Pg20pn2-FB
Crash Simpson jumps some cars at Madison Square Garden. 
Pg20pn3-FB
Repeat of current volume 6 & 7. 
Pg20pn3-FB-FB: Ghost Riders origin
Johnny kneels in a pentagram, holding a skull with a candle on it. 
Pg21-pg22: now
With Lucifer now dealt with, Ghost Rider decides to go after Zadkiel. 

References: 
Thankfully that storys over with. It was basically Ghost Rider fights Lucifer, repeat issue after issue. For nineteen issues. Great art, though!

All right. As I understand it, both Roxanne & Johnny tried to make a deal to save Crash. Roxanne prayed to god and Johnny made a deal with the devil. As a result, Johnny was bonded to an angel & Zarathos at the same time, and he became the Ghost Rider. Eventually he was separated from Zarathos, and he wasnt the Ghost Rider anymore.(now, I could be off on this bit. If Roxanne prayed to save Crash, why was Johnny bonded to an angel? I dont get it. Unless she was praying to save Johnny. If that was the case, then it when would that have happened? After he became Ghost Rider, Im sure, but that doesnt fit with an angel would hunt demons, not another demon edict that seems to be in place now, because the demon Ghost Rider would have already been hunting demons) 

The whole Zarathos thing ended up being a distraction, because his family were the safeholders for the Spirits of Vengeance.(there were three, right?) When a female has it, theres no Ghost Rider, like when his mom had it, and when his sister had it. When Barbara died and Dan got it, there was a Ghost Rider. Eventually Badilino got a Spirit of Vengeance as well, Dan had Noble Kale, and Johnny ended up with another one in the Crossroads special, but nothing happened with his immediately. Noble Kale eventually split from Dan, Badilino stayed in hell with him, and still nothing with Johnny. 

Then Johnny became Ghost Rider again in the Hammer Lane mini(v4) with no explanation, but he still had a Spirit of Vengeance in him, so it was probably just acting up with no other active Ghost Rider around. But then he was killed in issue 6 & 7 of the current volume(6) and sent to hell, he had an adventure in the Ennis mini(v5), and then he was hunting Lucifer fragments in the current volume(6), where its revealed he had an angel in him the whole time. 

So what the hell did that angel do during all of that? Does that mean the Spirits of Vengeance are all angels? Is Noble Kale an angel, then? I dont get it.

-Daron Jensen

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Feb 26, 2008 9:23 am 
By Somebody
Director

Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
The whole Zarathos thing ended up being a distraction, because his family were the safeholders for the Spirits of Vengeance.(there were three, right?) When a female has it, theres no Ghost Rider, like when his mom had it, and when his sister had it. When Barbara died and Dan got it, there was a Ghost Rider. 
<<<

An immediate ngh-ngh - Noble was bonded to "his mom" (Naomi Kale) in GR -1, and they were the Ghost Rider. It's how she died, in fact - she was already terminal, going round checking on her children from afar, and Mephisto pushed her into transforming one last time. The strain, when Noble switched back, killed her.

Barbara was never bonded to Noble directly (in the MU - there's a What If where Danny was the one who died and she bonded to Noble to become GR). She was next in line after Naomi managed to arrange for Noble's curse to skip Johnny (she thought it would skip all her children as a result), but she died before it was activated and it descended to Danny.

And by the end of GR3 there were... *checks* six (sort of), thanks to Blackheart. Not counting anything bonded to Johnny.


Col_Fury wrote:
>>>
So what the hell did that angel do during all of that? Does that mean the Spirits of Vengeance are all angels? Is Noble Kale an angel, then? I dont get it.
<<<

Noble was an angel, yes. The Angel of Death.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s160 ... fDeath.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s160 ... fDeath.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s160 ... fDeath.jpg

He was turned into a demon by his father and Mephisto, then when he refused to eat his child, Uriel (an angel) intervened. Rather than risk a war, Mephisto offered half Noble's soul, and chose him as a Spirit of Vengeance, "to serve both realms for eternity" - it being Mephisto's right to choose. Uriel then recreated him as such, giving him an Angel aspect to balance out the Demon (so Noble was both Angel and Demon).

The other (faux) "Spirits of Vengeance" from GR3, were "just" demons - Vengeance was slightly different, in that he was bonded with a human soul (like Noble was with Danny, only with Badlino dominant), but the others were humans *turned into* demons (one bonded with a dog, because Blackheart could).

			*	*	*

Feb 26, 2008 8:38 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

I told you I was confused!  

Thanks for the clarifications. I guess we'll just have to wait for the rest to be cleared up,(Hopefully it will be explained, I really hope they aren't leaving it at 'forget Zarathos, it's an angel') before we can nail down Roxaane's & Johnny's Flashbacks.

-Daron Jensen

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Feb 27, 2008 11:47 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

Eventually he was separated from Zarathos, and he wasnt the Ghost Rider anymore.(now, I could be off on this bit. If Roxanne prayed to save Crash, why was Johnny bonded to an angel? I dont get it. Unless she was praying to save Johnny.

Yeah, the latter. She was praying to save Johnny. What I got out of the story was that Zadkiel's bonding Johnny to the Angel, (the Ghost Rider) was what prevented Lucifer from whisking Johnny off to hell in payment once Crash died. So Zadkiel, (answering Roxanne's prayers for God) saved Johnny's life by bonding the Ghost Rider to him.

Now this comes as a total contradiction to the whole bit where Zarathos was bonded to Johnny...

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Feb 28, 2008 2:33 am 
By Col_Fury
Director

I don't have Marvel Spotlight 5, so I'm not familiar with the details of Johnny Blaze's origin. So, here are some questions: 

When did Roxanne find out about Johnny's deal with the devil? Did Roxanne know Johnny was the Ghost Rider?(if so, when did she find out?) 

I find it strange that in the 'angel bonded to Johnny' Flashback, the Ghost Rider looks like the Dan Ketch Ghost Rider, and not the Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider. When Johnny turned into the Ghost Rider, he was still wearing his jumpsuit. He didn't start looking like the Dan Ketch Ghost Rider until the Hammer Lane mini, which was long after he lost Zarathos, but not so long after he got his own Spirit of Vengeance. 

It seems like Zarathos = jump suit & Spirit of Vengeance = leather & chains. Since Noble Kale was an angel of sorts, and he was a Spirit of Vengeance w/ the leather & chains look, could it be possible that Johnny wasn't bonded to an angel until just before the Hammer Lane mini? Or was Roxanne dead by then? 

I dunno.  Anybody have Marvel Spotlight 5?

-Daron Jensen

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Feb 28, 2008 6:51 am 
By Somebody
Director

Kevin W. wrote:
>>>
Yeah, the latter. She was praying to save Johnny. What I got out of the story was that Zadkiel's bonding Johnny to the Angel, (the Ghost Rider) was what prevented Lucifer from whisking Johnny off to hell in payment once Crash died. So Zadkiel, (answering Roxanne's prayers for God) saved Johnny's life by bonding the Ghost Rider to him.

Now this comes as a total contradiction to the whole bit where Zarathos was bonded to Johnny...
<<<

The only thing I can suggest, not having read any of the Blaze issues, is a detail from Noble's origin (from GR3 92) - Noble's child, and all his descendants, were taken under the protection of the angel Uriel - Mephisto couldn't harm them in any way. This, however, didn't stop him from cursing the kid, and every first-born child in the kid's line, to be the Earthly host for Noble.

At first glance, this doesn't seem hugely different - the Angel's there, stopping Blaze from being killed, or [whatever devil it's meant to be right now] from taking Blaze's soul. But not from dumping Something Else [i.e. Zarathos] inside him, and Angel Rider didn't "activate" in its' own right until shortly before Hammer Lane. [The GR Blackheart lumbered Johnny with in Ghost Riders: Crossroads was still explicitly said to be Zarathos, IIRC]

			*	*	*

Feb 28, 2008 11:42 am 
By Kevin W.
Director

Check out this interview with Daniel Way and Jason Aaron over at Newsarama. Specifically the following part:

>>>
DW: Johnny had made the standard Faustian Pact, the devil was there to collect--and then Roxanne Simpson busted in and, for some reason, everything changedLucifer was unable to take his soul. That's the original version. All I had to do was figure out what Roxanne Simpson did to make this happen.

NRAMA: So spell it out a little

DW: Roxanne prayed, on Johnny's behalf. And her prayers were answered...just not in a way that she would've necessarily wanted. Understand--and I hope this was clear in the book--Johnny did, in fact, make a deal with the Devil. Johnny Blaze's soul, upon death, is payable to Hell. But that was trumped by the deal that Roxanne made with Heaven on Johnny's behalf. In order to "save" Johnny, Heaven--specifically, Zadkiel--bonded the Ghost Rider, an angelic spirit (or Power...of the the Sixth Choir, specifically), to Johnny's soul, thereby making him...well, an angel. And angels can only be condemned to Hell by the highest authority (see: Lucifer). In short, Hell has no claim on the Ghost Rider and so, therefore, can't collect on the debt--because Johnny's soul and the Ghost Rider are inseparable.

NRAMA: And that underlies how Ghost Rider was able to escape from Hell at the beginning of the series, that is, the only thing holding him in Hell was his belief that he couldnt escape. In fact, the door was open along
<<<

I'm going to have to agree with Somebody: I think Lucifer, (or Satan, or wait, was it Mephisto?) realized he couldn't whisk Johnny to hell, so he bonded the demon Zarathos to Johnny. This somehow kept the true "Ghost Rider" angel in remission...

I also believe that Jason Aaron has been strongly hinting in that interview, (and in other recent interviews) that he's bringing back Daniel Ketch at some point during this storyline. If anybody can shed light on this convoluted continuity, it's Aaron.

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Feb 28, 2008 11:56 am 
By Kevin W.
Director

I just realized: I have a reprint of Marvel Spotlight #5 in my collection! It's reprinted in the "Highway to Hell" one-shot from a few years ago...I haven't read the thing in years, but I just pulled it out...

And yeah, shortly after Crash died, Johnny is approached by Satan a second time. Satan says, "From this day forth...you will walk the Earth as my emissary in the dark hours...and in the light...you will join me in Hades!" 

As Johnny's skin begins to transform into the Ghost Rider, Roxanne enters the room. She says, "Back, o foul denizen of the depths! As the cross is to the vampire...so is the presence of one pure in heart to you! Disappear! I command you! Or the forces of good within me will destroy you!"

Satan responds, "I depart, cursed woman! But I shall return...to claim what is owed to me!"

Johnny is saved from transforming just then, and Satan departs. Johnny asks how Roxanne knew to send Satan back to Hell. Roxanne says, "Though you never realized it...I read your books on Satan...when you weren't around...and when I entered the room...well, I knew exactly what to do!"

The story then goes on to say that the very next night, when Johnny was alone, as darkness comes, he changes into the Ghost Rider and flees, leaving his old life behind, (setting up the scenario for the next few issues similar to the old Hulk origin: he's Johnny Blaze by day, and Ghost Rider by night).

So Daniel Way is simply taking the old bit where we learned that Roxanne had stumbled across Johnny's Satanic books, and he adds on with her praying to heaven.

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Feb 28, 2008 12:01 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Kevin W. wrote:
>>>
I also believe that Jason Aaron has been strongly hinting in that interview, (and in other recent interviews) that he's bringing back Daniel Ketch at some point during this storyline. If anybody can shed light on this convoluted continuity, it's Aaron.
<<<

Didn't the first preview page of Aaron's first issue - attached to this interview: http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php ... ostcount=1 - strongly imply Danny was dead?

And this quote from the interview you found:

>>>
Jason Aaron: Ghost Rider is also a character who's always being manipulated and fooled. Always having the rug yanked out from under him. By Satan, Mephisto, Zarathos, Noble Kale, the list goes on and on. 
<<<

...doesn't fill me with a huge amount of confidence.

			*	*	*

Feb 28, 2008 12:08 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

Well, I focused on the line in the interview that I linked to, where Aaron says:

>>>
All in all, there'll be new villains, new weapons, a few old faces and lots more shocking surprises.
<<<

Also, in the interview you linked to, we have this:

>>>
NRAMA: The preview also showed Johnny naming Danny (we assume Ketch) among a list of people who are "gone." Will you be addressing what happened to Daniel Ketch?

JA: Next question please.
<<<

Instead of saying, "Nah, I don't want to weigh myself down with that continuity stuff, I'm going onwards." He explicitly dodged the question. I see that as foreshadowing...

And yes, in the first issue written by Jason Aaron, Blaze comments on how everyone he ever loved is gone, and yes, he mentions Dan...but maybe Blaze is misinformed about where Dan is these days...

>>>
By Satan, Mephisto, Zarathos, Noble Kale, the list goes on and on.
<<<

You don't think Blaze got kind of a raw deal because of Noble Kale as well as the others?

Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Feb 28, 2008 12:41 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Kevin W. wrote:
>>>
Well, I focused on the line in the interview that I linked to, where Aaron says:

>>>
All in all, there'll be new villains, new weapons, a few old faces and lots more shocking surprises.
<<<

Also, in the interview you linked to, we have this:

>>>
NRAMA: The preview also showed Johnny naming Danny (we assume Ketch) among a list of people who are "gone." Will you be addressing what happened to Daniel Ketch?

JA: Next question please.
<<<

Instead of saying, "Nah, I don't want to weigh myself down with that continuity stuff, I'm going onwards." He explicitly dodged the question. I see that as foreshadowing...

And yes, in the first issue written by Jason Aaron, Blaze comments on how everyone he ever loved is gone, and yes, he mentions Dan...but maybe Blaze is misinformed about where Dan is these days...
<<<

Foreshadowing, certainly, but the hints don't seem to head towards Blaze being mistaken. Obviously, there's always a possibility of a Big Swerve, but...


Kevin W. wrote:
>>>
Jason Aaron wrote:
>>>
By Satan, Mephisto, Zarathos, Noble Kale, the list goes on and on.
<<<

You don't think Blaze got kind of a raw deal because of Noble Kale as well as the others?
<<<

Indirectly, perhaps; but it was the fact that this was attributed to "Ghost Rider" rather than "Blaze" or "Johnny" - especially since he draws a distinction between the two in the other interview - that makes me wary

			*	*	*

Feb 28, 2008 6:28 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Kevin W. wrote:
>>>
I just realized: I have a reprint of Marvel Spotlight #5 in my collection!
<<<

Sweet. 

So Roxanne knew at least about Johnny's satanic deal, placing her Flashbacks here inbetween Marvel Spotlight 5 FlashBacks. So do Johnny's, then. And if I'm reading all of this right, the angel was bonded to Johnny before Zarathos was, right? And, even though the angel was bonded to Johnny the whole time, it probably didn't 'activate' until shortly before Hammer Lane. 


Somebody wrote:
>>>
[The GR Blackheart lumbered Johnny with in Ghost Riders: Crossroads was still explicitly said to be Zarathos, IIRC]
<<<

I pulled that out and re-read it. Johnny WAS rebonded to Zarathos in Crossroads, but then unbonded by the end of it. After that one-shot, Johnny didn't have Zarathos or a Spirit of Vengenace in him. Yay!

So, as I now understand Johnny's chain of events, roughly: 

Johnny makes a deal with Satan, Roxanne makes a deal with Zadkiel, Johnny's bonded with an angel to pre-empt his going to hell. Then, he's bonded with Zarathos, because he can't go to hell. (M/SPT 5-FB, GR2 86-FB, GR3 14-FB, GR5 5-FB, GR6 18-FB, & GR6 19-FB, etc) 
Johnny's the Ghost Rider, eventually loses Zarathos. (M/SPT, GR2, CHAMP, etc)
Johnny has some non-Ghost Rider adventures(GR3, SOV, BLAZE, etc)
Johnny's the Ghost Rider again, probably the angel this time, finally(GR4)
Johnny's killed and sent to hell(GR6 6 & 7-FB)
Johnny's in hell(GR5)
Johnny's out of hell(GR6)

...right?

-Daron Jensen

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Feb 29, 2008 9:06 pm 
By Col_Fury
Director

Thanks to my buddy and yours Jeph, I was able to take a look at Marvel Spotlight 5. Also, thanks to JLH's analyses of earlier issues of this volume, I'm pretty sure I've been able to nail down placements for these FlashBacks: 

GHOST RIDER III/JOHNNY BLAZE 
GR3 14 (14:1)-FB
GR5 5 (6:4 - 7:?)-FB (should be volume 6)
GR3 14 (14:3)-FB
M/SPT 5 (7:3 - 7:4)-FB
GR5 5 (8:3 - 8:4)-FB (should be volume 6)
M/SPT 5 (8:1 - 8:2)-FB
GR3 -1
GR5 5 (13:2 - 13:6)-FB (should be volume 6)
M/SPT 5 (8:3 - 9:?)-FB
GR2 68 (6:3 - 6:5)-FB
M/SPT 5 (10:1 - 10:3)-FB
M/SPT 5 (10:4)-FB
M/SPT 5 (10:5 - 11:3)-FB
M/SPT 5 (12 - 13:5)-FB
M/SPT 5 (13:6)-FB
*GR6 19-FB-FB
M/SPT 5 (13:7  15:2)-FB
M/SPT 5 (15:3 - 16:3)-FB
GR2 68 (10:2)-FB
M/SPT 5 (16:4 - 17:3)-FB
M/SPT 5 (17:3)-FB
M/SPT 5 (18 - 19:4)-FB
GR3 14 (14:4)-FB
*GR6 18-FB
M/SPT 5 (19:5 - 20:2)-FB
GR5 5 (15:2 - 15:3)-FB (should be volume 6)
M/SPT 5 (20:3 - 20:5)-FB
M/SPT 5 (20:6 - 21:5)-FB
{M/SPT 5}
M/SPT 6
...

BLAZE, ROXANNE SIMPSON
GR3 (14:3)14-FB 
M/SPT 5 (7:3-7:4)-FB 
GR6 5 (8:3-8:4)-FB 
M/SPT 5 (8:1)-FB 
GR3 -1
GR6 5 (13:2-13:6)-FB 
M/SPT 5 (8:3-10:4)-FB 
M/SPT 5 (12-16:3)-FB 
GR2 68 (10:1-10:2)-FB 
M/SPT 5 (18-19:4)-FB 
GR3 14 (14:4)-FB 
*GR6 18-FB
M/SPT 5 (19:5-20:2)-FB 
GR6 5 (15:2-15:3)-FB 
M/SPT 5 (20:3-20:5)-FB 
{M/SPT 5}
M/SPT 6
...

SIMPSON, "CRASH" 
M/SPT 10-FB
M/TU 15-FB
GR3 14 (14:3)-FB 
{M/SPT 5 (7:3-8:2)-FB} 
GR3 -1
M/SPT 5 (9:3-13:5)-FB 
M/SPT 5 (15:3-16:3)-FB 
GR2 68 (10:1-10:2)-FB 
M/SPT 5 (16:4-16:6)-FB 
*GR6 19-FB
M/SPT 5 (17:1-17:3)-FB
GR2 68 (11:1)-FB 
M/SPT 5 (17:4-19:4)-FB 
GR3 14 (14:4)-FB 
(Crash only appears in FlashBack in M/SPT 5, hes already dead by the current portion of the issue, and should be removed from his chronology)

That's teamwork, folks! 

-Daron Jensen

			*	*	*

Thread 30

Subject: Ghost Rider #18 revelations...(Spoilers)

Dec 14, 2007 3:11 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

Okay, so let me get this straight...

The big revelation for Ghost Rider is that...the Ghost Rider entity is an angel? Or is it that Johnny Blaze is an angel?!? And so why would Heaven attach an Angel to Johnny Blaze? Why is Johnny Blaze's soul worth strapping an angel to it?All that I see this revelation doing is providing a better explanation of why Ghost Rider is always battling demons, (which was always a bit ackward)...Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!

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Dec 14, 2007 5:11 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Ah: http://forum.newsarama.com/printthread.php?t=139735 

Based solely on that interview, it could work provided "Zadkiel" could be treated as dormant (i.e., there but not an active Ghost Rider) until after Ghost Rider Finale. Perhaps something in the comic - either now or in Aaron's arc - might rule that out though

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Feb 05, 2008 8:55 pm 
By Somebody
Director

Okay, could someone clarify this whole thing for me now?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/ ... i?id=12891
So now, at long last, Blaze finally knows who was really responsible for turning his life into one huge mess. Forget Satan. Forget Mephisto. Forget Zarathos. Those were all beings that used him, but they werent the man at the top. That dishonor goes to Zadkiel, the renegade angel. So all that matters to Blaze now is getting his revenge, once and for all. The only question is how do you get your hands on an angel?

We dont really know much about Zadkiel at this point, Aaron continued. We havent even seen him yet. All we know is that hes the head of heavens black ops division and that he now has his sights set on achieving what Lucifer once failed to do and thats seize the throne of heaven for himself. In future issues, well learn why heaven needs a black ops division and what exactly that entails. And well see Zadkiels grand plan for a heavenly coup d'tat begin to unfold. 

			*	*	*

Feb 10, 2008 3:33 pm 
By Kevin W.
Director

Umm, what exactly do you need clarified?

Johnny Blaze still offered his soul to Satan, (or "Lucifer", as Daniel Way has taken to calling the character). But we learned in the last arc the "demon" that was bonded to Johnny Blaze wasn't a demon after all...it was a "Spirit of Vengeance" from heaven, (it was done by this "Zadkiel" figure)...in other words, an angel.

Now just how that figures in with Zarathos and Noble Kale, and all that, well...Keeping track of Bendis References since 2001!
